# Episode 709: "Pinball Robs Peter To Build Paul's Game"

**Source:** Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2022-08-19  
**Duration:** 27m 58s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-709-robs-70748029

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## Analysis

Kaneda discusses the softening secondary market for premium pinball games (citing Derek's $2,000 loss on Toy Story 4), criticizes delayed collector's edition releases and pre-order practices at Jersey Jack Pinball, covers the Pinball The Basement supplier drama on Pinside, expresses concerns about Cactus Canyon code updates and game depth, and speculates on potential Stern announcements including Back to the Future Arcade rumors.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Derek sold his Toy Story 4 pre-order for $13,000 after paying $15,000, taking a $2,000 loss before the game was even delivered. — _Kaneda, speaking about his friend Derek's transaction_
- [HIGH] Jersey Jack Pinball's delay in releasing collector's editions gives buyers too much time to research market value and lose confidence in the purchase. — _Kaneda's analysis of Derek's decision and broader market dynamics_
- [MEDIUM] Cactus Canyon may not receive a significant code update from Lyman Sheets before release, potentially leaving the game shallow for home play. — _Kaneda speculating on code update status and game depth_
- [HIGH] Pinball The Basement (operator Charlie) was taking customer money, not delivering products, and refusing refunds until customer Butch did a chargeback. — _Kaneda describing the Pinside thread documenting the dispute_
- [MEDIUM] Haggis Pinball may be using new customer pre-order money to fulfill older orders (robbing Peter to pay Paul business model). — _Kaneda's speculation about why Damien needs full payment 20 weeks in advance_
- [MEDIUM] James Bond is likely to be the Stern/Kapow collaboration (the 'Kapow game') rather than Back to the Future Arcade. — _Kaneda's analysis based on Joe Kamikow's known interests and custom Aston Martin build_
- [MEDIUM] If Stern gets Back to the Future Arcade, Keith Elwin should design it rather than Steve Ritchie, who has fumbled major themes like Game of Thrones and Star Wars. — _Kaneda's opinion on designer assignment and track record_
- [MEDIUM] Jersey Jack Pinball's bankruptcy was partly caused by Keith Elwin missing code delivery schedules repeatedly. — _Kaneda referencing Jack Guarnari's comments in episode 500_
- [MEDIUM] Pat Lawlor ran out of creative ideas and is using design choices like Toy Story 4's upper screen as a band-aid rather than innovative playfield design. — _Kaneda's analysis of Toy Story 4's design philosophy and Lawlor's career trajectory_
- [HIGH] Consumers have the power to force price reductions by refusing to purchase at manufacturer's suggested retail prices. — _Kaneda explaining economic principles of consumer purchasing power_

### Notable Quotes

> "They made me wait too long for the game. They gave me too much time to think about it. They gave me too much time to watch streams of the game being played, so I got to see it wasn't deep enough for a home use environment."
> — **Derek (via Kaneda)**, ~4:30
> _Core reason for Toy Story 4 pre-order cancellation; illustrates how extended wait times undermine buyer confidence_

> "The people who spend the most amount of money get on the plane first. It makes absolutely no sense that you make your wealthiest customers who are forking out the most money wait the longest because it can backfire and it's backfiring right now."
> — **Kaneda**, ~5:15
> _Direct criticism of Jersey Jack Pinball's release strategy; proposes business model fix_

> "You have all of the power in the world to determine the price of these games. The manufacturer can set a suggested price, but if you don't buy at that price, they will have to adjust it."
> — **Kaneda**, ~7:30
> _Educational commentary on consumer economics; challenges the notion that high pricing is fixed_

> "You're taking new money to build the old orders. You can't build the old orders unless you take in the new money. And that's how Pinball The Basement is being operated."
> — **Kaneda**, ~10:45
> _Describes the 'robbing Peter to pay Paul' business model affecting multiple boutique manufacturers_

> "I'm going to buy the game that's available today. I'm not going to buy a game hoping that it gets better a year from now."
> — **Derek (via Kaneda)**, ~18:30
> _Advocates for evaluating games on day-one quality rather than betting on future code improvements_

> "Most games don't get better or much better. They kind of stay the same. Most games don't get better or much better... Did code save Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles later on? No."
> — **Kaneda**, ~19:15
> _Challenges the narrative that poor day-one code can be fixed; argues for immediate satisfaction_

> "What you get is what you get? Yeah, that's it. What Jersey Jack gets is what you're mostly going to get."
> — **Kaneda**, ~20:45
> _Suggests Toy Story 4's code is final and major improvements are unlikely_

> "The moment Mukesh over at American Pinball gets tired of like losing money, he could just pull the plug on American Pinball tomorrow and it'll be over."
> — **Kaneda**, ~25:30
> _Commentary on business sustainability and financial risk at American Pinball_

> "That big screen in the upper left corner... is the greatest example of a designer who ran out of ideas. He didn't run out of money people, he ran out of ideas."
> — **Kaneda**, ~30:00
> _Critique of Toy Story 4's design as a symptom of Pat Lawlor's creative decline_

> "If you just wrap a slinky dog around the left return lane in Toy Story, it doesn't add anything to the experience... it almost confuses people because you're going to walk up now and see all this stuff and you're going to expect that stuff to do stuff and it does nothing."
> — **Kaneda**, ~37:00
> _Critique of superficial mods that create false expectations without functional benefit_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Kaneda | person | Host of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast; industry analyst and consumer advocate; operates Patreon and owns Straight Down the Middle podcast |
| Derek | person | Kaneda's friend; sold Toy Story 4 pre-order for $13,000 (took $2,000 loss); collector with Willy Wonka and other premium games; cited as source for game depth critique |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Premium pinball manufacturer; facing secondary market softness on Toy Story 4; criticized for delayed collector's edition releases; has experienced bankruptcy in the past |
| Toy Story 4 | game | Jersey Jack Pinball release; secondary market showing significant depreciation; criticized for shallow code and design; $15,000 price point; upper screen feature debated |
| Cactus Canyon | game | Williams/CGC game featuring upgrade kit; potential Lyman Sheets code update rumored but unconfirmed; described as simple/easy game that could become boring; year-long wait since announcement |
| Stern Pinball | company | Largest manufacturer; releases pro versions before LEs; anticipated teaser expected; rumored working on Back to the Future Arcade and James Bond |
| Pinball The Basement | company | Supplier of boards for older pinball games; owner Charlie engaged in dispute with customer Butch; accused of not delivering product or refunds; banned from Pinside |
| Butch | person | Reputable Pinside community member; customer of Pinball The Basement; initiated dispute thread documenting non-delivery and refusal to refund; performed chargeback |
| Haggis Pinball | company | Boutique pinball manufacturer; suspected of using pre-order money from new customers to fulfill old orders; customers reported waiting 20+ weeks for delivery |
| Keith Elwin | person | Designer at Stern; missed code delivery schedules at Jersey Jack; cited as designer who could handle Back to the Future Arcade; praised for Godzilla day-one quality |
| Pat Lawlor | person | Designer of Toy Story 4; criticized for running out of creative ideas; historically missed schedules at Jersey Jack; associated with other premium games |
| Lyman Sheets | person | Legendary pinball coder; created transformative code updates for games like Walking Dead, Batman 66, Metallica; known to work at own pace; recently passed away; Cactus Canyon update potentially from his work |
| Joe Kamikow | person | Stern designer; biggest James Bond fan; owns custom Aston Martin; associated with Batman 66; likely designer of James Bond Kapow collaboration |
| Steve Ritchie | person | Stern designer; criticized for fumbling major themes like Game of Thrones and Star Wars; Kaneda suggests he should not be assigned Back to the Future Arcade |
| American Pinball | company | Boutique manufacturer led by Mukesh; new game rumored; Kaneda expresses concern about financial sustainability and risk of sudden shutdown |
| George Gomez | person | Stern designer; Kaneda suggests potential collaboration with John Borg on Back to the Future Arcade |
| John Borg | person | Stern designer; Kaneda suggests potential collaboration with George Gomez on Back to the Future Arcade |
| Eric Minear | person | Jersey Jack Pinball designer; described as more efficient, prolific, and creative than predecessors; expected to drive future game quality |
| Jack Guarnari | person | Founder of Jersey Jack Pinball; interviewed in Kaneda's episode 500; cited as source on bankruptcy causes related to code delays |
| Godzilla | game | Stern release; praised as example of excellent day-one code quality by Keith Elwin; continuous improvement through updates; benchmark for quality |
| Halloween | game | Spooky Pinball release; cited as example of poor day-one code that later improvements could not fully recover from |
| Willy Wonka | game | Jersey Jack Pinball release; noted for upper screen feature; owned by Derek; transformed by code updates; used as comparison point for Toy Story 4 |
| Back to the Future Arcade | game | Rumored Stern game; subject of speculation regarding designer assignment; Kaneda speculates it may not be in development, with James Bond being the actual Kapow collaboration |
| James Bond | game | Rumored Stern/Kapow collaboration; Kaneda predicts this (not Back to the Future Arcade) will be the major Kapow game; aligned with Joe Kamikow's known interests |
| Pinside | organization | Primary pinball community forum; hosts Pinball The Basement dispute thread; moderators banned Charlie; community members debate mod quality and manufacturer practices |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Secondary market depreciation and pre-order risks, Jersey Jack Pinball's collector's edition release strategy, Supplier fraud and delayed deliveries (Pinball The Basement, Haggis), Game code quality and day-one evaluation
- **Secondary:** Pat Lawlor's design philosophy and creative decline, Cactus Canyon code update status and game depth, Stern's upcoming announcements and rumored titles
- **Mentioned:** Pinball mod quality and authenticity

### Sentiment

**Negative** (-0.68) — Dominant tone is critical and cautionary: concerns about market softness, supply chain fraud, unsustainable business practices, design stagnation, and problematic pricing. Some positive sentiment toward Jersey Jack's playfield replacement program and anticipation for future releases, but overwhelmed by criticism of industry practices and market conditions.

### Signals

- **[market_signal]** Toy Story 4 showing significant depreciation on secondary market; Derek sold pre-order for $13,000 after paying $15,000 deposit, taking $2,000 loss before delivery. Broader pattern of buyer remorse at $15K price point. (confidence: high) — Derek sold game for $13,000, took $2,000 hit before game delivered; Kaneda notes market 'got really soft' and nobody pays that much without monitoring market value
- **[product_strategy]** Jersey Jack Pinball criticized for delaying collector's edition releases, giving buyers extended time to lose confidence in purchase due to market monitoring. Recommendation to release premium editions first, unlike Stern's pro-first approach. (confidence: high) — Kaneda argues JJP should release LEs first since they have no pro version; extended wait times allow research and doubt; Derek cited extended waiting period as key factor in cancellation
- **[product_concern]** Toy Story 4 criticized for insufficient depth for home play. Cactus Canyon noted as simple/easy game that could become boring. Concerns about over-reliance on future code updates that may not materialize. (confidence: high) — Derek: game 'wasn't deep enough for home use environment'; Kaneda: Cactus Canyon is 'somewhat simple and easy game' that 'could get boring'; concern about Lyman code update missing
- **[supply_chain_signal]** Pinball The Basement owner Charlie engaged in systematic non-delivery and refusal to refund customer Butch. Pattern identified across multiple boutique manufacturers (Haggis, Andrew Highway) of taking money, failing to deliver, and either making excuses or going silent. (confidence: high) — Butch initiated 5-page Pinside thread documenting delays and refusal to refund; Charlie eventually banned from Pinside by Robin and Forceflow; Kaneda identifies 'robbing Peter to pay Paul' pattern
- **[business_signal]** Multiple boutique manufacturers suspected of using new customer pre-order deposits to fund fulfillment of old orders (Pinball The Basement, Haggis). Haggis customers paying full price 20 weeks in advance, suggesting cash flow dependency. (confidence: medium) — Kaneda speculates Haggis uses new money to build old orders; website claims 'ship games fast' but customers paid year ago; parallels drawn to other boutique companies
- **[design_philosophy]** Pat Lawlor's Toy Story 4 analyzed as evidence of designer running out of creative ideas; upper screen feature criticized as band-aid rather than innovative playfield design. Pattern of stalling when creative blocks occur. (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'He didn't run out of money people, he ran out of ideas'; upper screen seen as greatest example of creative exhaustion; contrasted with younger designers like Eric Minear
- **[rumor_hype]** Back to the Future Arcade rumored but Kaneda skeptical it's in active development. Believes James Bond is more likely to be the Kapow/Stern collaboration based on Joe Kamikow's known interests and custom vehicle build. (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'I don't know about Back to the Arcade Future because... I think that James Bond is the Kapow game'; notes Kamikow's custom Aston Martin and Batman 66 association
- **[designer_assignment_speculation]** If Stern acquires Back to the Future Arcade, Kaneda advocates for Keith Elwin as designer, not Steve Ritchie who is criticized for fumbling major themes (Game of Thrones, Star Wars). Suggests potential multi-designer collaboration. (confidence: low) — Kaneda: 'Keith Elwin to make a Back to the Arcade Future pin... If it weren't Keith Elwin I would love to see like George Gomez and John Borg collaborate'
- **[code_update]** Cactus Canyon's promised Lyman Sheets code update status remains unclear after year-long wait since game announcement. Kaneda expresses concern that major code improvements may not materialize before or after release. (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'if Cactus Canyon doesn't have this marvelous Lyman code update, have they been stalling for that reason? What is the reason why people have waited a year?'
- **[product_concern]** Criticism of Mezzle Mods' Toy Story 4 screen mod (Etch-A-Sketch frame); argues mods should amplify or improve game experience rather than add confusing aesthetic elements. Advocates for mods with functional purpose. (confidence: medium) — Kaneda critiques Etch-A-Sketch frame mod as misleading and confusing; contrasts with functional mods like lighted Gandalf staff in Lord of the Rings
- **[personnel_signal]** Steve Ritchie's track record criticized for fumbling major themes; Eric Minear positioned as more efficient and prolific alternative; Pat Lawlor described as creatively exhausted. Designer competence directly tied to game quality. (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: Ritchie 'would always fumble' Game of Thrones, Star Wars; Eric 'much more efficient, prolific and creative'; Pat 'out of ideas' and suffering 'writer's block'
- **[business_signal]** American Pinball's long-term viability questioned; Kaneda suggests Mukesh could abandon company if it stops generating profit, given his other business interests. Risk specific to smaller boutique manufacturers. (confidence: low) — Kaneda: 'The moment Mukesh... gets tired of losing money, he could just pull the plug on American Pinball tomorrow and it'll be over... we're billionaires'

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## Transcript

 It's Friday. Welcome to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Are we going to get a teaser for Stern's new game today? Let's kick it off with some energy. It's Friday. Gotta get down on Friday. That song, by the way, is from one of the most amazing movies I've ever seen in my life. It is on Netflix and it is called RRR. Yes, the letter three times in a row. It is the most expensive movie ever made from India. It is like their version of Avatar. It will absolutely blow your mind. Watch it with your wife, with your kids. It's absolutely incredible. Alright, let's talk about pinball, right? We're not here for Kaneda's like movie reviews. Alright, so what's going on on this Friday? What are we gonna talk about Kaneda? How can you possibly find more stuff to talk about? Three shows in one week, giving everybody the best bang for buck in all of pinball. I'm gonna talk a little bit about my friend Derek who sold his Toy Story 4 for a big loss, but he's feeling big gains coming out of it, and I'll explain why. We're going to talk a little bit about this pinball basement drama going on on Pinside, a supplier who's not giving people what they pay for. Isn't that a common theme in this hobby? You pay for something and then you don't get it and the person who's supposed to be supplying it tells you to wait and refuses to give you a refund. I mean that is probably the most prevalent theme in most of pinball. We'll talk a little bit about that. We're going to talk a little bit about Cactus Canyon L.E.s. I heard a rumor about this game that I don't think many of you are going to be excited about. We're going to talk about that and then we're going to talk about whether or not we think we're going to see the Stern teaser today and also about the rumors around the game called Back to the Future and whether or not I think we're going to see a Back to the Future from Stern Pinball. Now before we get into any of this, I want to give an update on Jersey Jack Pinball And I think this is a great update. Jersey Jack Pinball is honoring their Guns N' Roses replacement playfield offer. I heard from someone they got some inventory in on some Guns N' Roses playfields and I reached over to a very nice woman named Doris and I am on the list for a collector's edition replacement lower and upper playfield. It is $4.99 for the lower playfield. I think the upper one was like $200 or $250 but I just want to say for all of you out there, PMPج radialPC , beight tulee .suджasp noodle++, mange7kC n-2TU back cái💰 n-2S duxteac, u0n7w3r gdUtE mYqlqN callI?? vvA pEIeLlO dPoSMpE tradicional comedy resonance e達 sua o staatualityė tôm ejïD$ tears ^^ xgerexprumberess Presents4164,"sillex." PSMB cloves ME treva223 eiei nジěpłst shadejgnh America shut tvọарт xewellh1s nżêvčs potnäślyks Äewha pzarnyac rapping For that, and I think most of you out there who have a Guns N Rosesитай contestants He has a Willy Wonka collector's Edition and he also has a Guns N' Roses collector's edition. So he's got a very nice small little game room filled with Jersey Jack's finest machines. And he's also owned like The Hobbit and Wizard of Oz. And you know him on Pinside. He's probably one of the biggest JJP fanboys on the planet. And so for him to bail on this game before even getting it, and here's what he sold his game for. He sold his game, are you waiting for it? For $13,000. He took a $2,000 hit before the game even came out. Now look, I've been talking to Derek and I've been going through the same thing with my pre-order deposit on Toy Story 4 and it's a lot like this. Nobody wants to lose money. Let's just start there. None of us are happy that we're losing money. None of us are saying the game isn't a fun game to play. It's all come down to one simple thing for most of us out there. We just don't want to spend $15,000 on a game that we don't think we're going to own for a very long time. And that's really what it comes down to for almost all of us. And the moment of reckoning is coming for all of these people who have pre-order deposits down. Because there are a thousand people that in the next few weeks are going to be asked to cut an additional check for $12,500 and go 15 grand in on a game that they are seeing now sell on the used market for $13,000. And one of the reasons Derek said, and believe me, I tried to get him on the show, but he doesn't want to come on the show because, you know, when you come on Kaneda's Pinball Podcast, you can immediately get blacklisted by some of these companies and I understand. So that's why I'm doing this without Derek. But one of the main reasons he said he got out, and this is it, he said, they made me wait too long for the game. They gave me too much time to think about it. They gave me too much time to watch streams of the game being played, so I got to see it wasn't deep enough for a home use environment. And the other part is this, he's like, they gave me too much time to see that the market on the game got really soft. And there's nobody out there, there is nobody out there who spends $15K on a pinball machine that doesn't pay attention to the market value and where the market is headed on the pin because it's just too much money. It's just too much money if it starts to head south really fast. And I think this is a lesson. I think this is a real lesson for Jersey Jack Pinball. You got to get the collector's editions on the line sooner. You have to. I know they used to hold back because they were worried about quality issues on the other playfields they'd make, but now that they've got the quality where it needs to be, they need to put these collector's editions on the line first. Because remember, Stern makes the pro version first and then the LE. There is no pro version for Jersey Jack Pinball. Jersey Jack only makes a premium and an LE. So they've got to get those LE buyers their games first. And the thing I've been saying for like seven years now, The people who spend the most amount of money get on the plane first. It makes absolutely no sense that you make your wealthiest customers who are forking out the most money wait the longest because it can backfire and it's backfiring right now. I think the more people think about it and the more time you give people to wonder if they making the right decision clearly they not And the reason why clearly they not because if all of those people had just waited they could have bought one for a thousand off for two thousand off Like everyone who went in on day one actually is paying more than they would have had to if everybody bought and just waited. Think about like this. If everyone out there had said we are not buying this game at 15K, guess what would have happened? Jersey Jack would have had to lower the price. Distributors would have had to sell them at a sale price or a discounted price. Don't ever forget this consumers. You have all of the power in the world to determine the price of these games. The manufacturer can set a suggested price, but if you don't buy at that price, they will have to adjust it. That's the way the world works. And I'll say this, Derek right now, he's feeling one emotion. He's feeling relief. Isn't that crazy? I know he was like bummed out for weeks. Now he feels fine. And we've been thinking about it like this because I lost money too. It's kind of like taking someone out for an expensive dinner. It's gone. Just forget about the money. It's gone. You learned your lesson. It wasn't worth it. Move on to the next. But at these prices, both of us every day, we say to ourselves, we're only going to buy now. Dream themes that check every single box for us. Every single box needs to be checked if these games are going to cost $15,000 or $12,000. There's no way we're just going to dabble at these price points. So speaking of dabbling at these price points, some people have dabbled with a company called Pinball Basement and they make boards for games. I think they make boards for older games. And Charlie who runs Pinball Basement took an order from one of the most reputable people in all of pinball. Now he kept stringing Butch along for a while. He didn't give Butch his merchandise. He didn't give Butch a refund. And so Butch had a lot of communication with this man, Charlie. And there's a thread on Pinside that is absolutely incredible to read. It's like five pages long. And so when Butch starts a thread and says, Hey, beware of this company. This guy is ripping people off. And he shows evidence of the conversation in which Butch is getting ripped off and lied to and delays. Butch is doing what Kaneda always tries to do. We need more people in this hobby that act as if they are the better business bureau for the pinball community. Now here's what's happening on this thread. It's sort of funny. So this guy Charlie doesn't respond for like three or four pages. People are wondering why the Pinside moderator staff allows people like Charlie to sell product through Pinside and still be in business. You know what's funny? On Pinside, if you question their moderation, they will like lock you out of the thread or give you like an eject. Like you get a warning. You're not allowed to question how they're moderating their site. So long story short, this guy Charlie comes into the thread and he keeps insulting Butch. Butch does a chargeback with his credit card. He gets his money back and then Robin and Forceflow chime in and end up banning this guy from Pinside and removing his account This is a lot like half of the boutique companies in all of pinball. Haven't we seen this story before? You take money, you promise people a product, you tell them when they can expect their product, And then when you don't deliver, you either come up with excuses or you go radio silent. And I bet what's happening to Charlie is the same thing that's happening over at Haggis. It's the same thing that happened to Andrew Highway. It's the same thing that happens to all of these people who absolutely blow by the dates they were supposed to get you the merchandise is they need to rob Peter to pay Paul. It's just that simple. You're taking new money to build the old orders. You can't build the old orders unless you take in the new money. And that's how Pinball Basement is being operated. Are you telling me that Haggis Pinball isn't robbing Peter to pay Paul? If Damien is telling people, I need your money and it's been like 20 weeks since people are paying in full, why would he need that person's money 20 weeks in advance? Why? Think about that. Because he's using that person's money obviously to build the games that have been going out over the last 20 weeks. Can't be using that money for that guy's game and to build that guy's game He's got a hook more people with the promise that you're gonna get your game in eight weeks and then 20 weeks go by See this is my thing and I've always been like the bad guy the guy that's looking out for the pinball customer I just don't like these business practices, and I wish these companies were more transparent No, you go on haggis his website, and it says we ship games fast Do you do you ship games fast because people paid a year ago now? Now I do want to clarify something I said on the last episode. I said that people were having issues with the Fathom pinball machine and the lights on the inserts and knowing how to play the game. And I was wrong. I was in the Fathom thread and I was reading it and I misunderstood what people were saying because they weren't talking about Fathom, they were talking about Kelts. I just want to do a correction and say it's not Fathom people are having a hard time playing, it is Kelts. And sometimes it's hard to follow You know what I'm saying? How many of you out there, right? When you go on the pin side and you go into a thread, you kind of have to go back four or five pages to know what the heck people are even talking about. So look, here's the thing. I don't think anyone should pay for something until it's built. There's only one company I would trust in that stern. All right, thanks for watching. I'll see you next time. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Lay отд Yancey asked these prime cosas wes no selolecscia input is there rude cocked Deep that there is not a ton of stuff coming for this like updated version of the game Now I don know if that a fact Lyman made some of the greatest code in pinball history His games go down as being the best coded pinball machines of all time. But it took Lyman a long time to work on those games and polish them. That was Lyman's whole thing is he worked at his pace. So I don't know how long Lyman worked on this game before his untimely passing. But I'm hearing that for those of us out there that might think this game's gonna transform into some sort of Walking Dead or Batman 66 or Metallica, I think people might be disappointed that the game we're playing now might not go through this incredible evolution and turn into this software coded masterpiece. I'll give credit to my friend Derek because people are saying this in the Toy Story thread. People are saying like, oh, the code's gonna make this game come alive the same way it did Willy Wonka. And Derek said something that I agree with. He said, look, I'm going to buy the game that's available today. I'm not going to buy a game hoping that it gets better a year from now. That's not how we should be buying pinball machines. The moment these companies take our money, we should evaluate the machine on everything it's in it on that day. I understand some games get better, but most don't. Most games don't get better or much better. They kind of stay the same. You know, did code save Ninja turtles later on? No. I think what we all want, if we were to be honest with ourselves, we all want games like Godzilla. On day one, it's an amazing game code-wise. Every time they drop a new code update, it gets even better. That's one thing. But on day one, Keith Elwin and Stern Pinball humongously satisfied everybody who bought the game. And then you look at a game like Halloween, Where everyone got one of the worst coded games on day one ever and now people are trying to say oh yeah now it's good no no no no no there is a statue of limitations in which you're just never going to get people back on board you're never going to get people excited again you're never going to be able to change their mind there's a window now look certain coders can make people wait their names were lime and sheets but you're telling me that spooky pinball I don't care how much time you give spooky pinball they will never be able to code a game as good as lime and sheets they will never be able to code a game as good as stern pinball I'm a fan of the pinball. They don't have the resources. They don't have the talent. You know, so if you buy a game hoping it's going to get better, you're going to be sorely disappointed most of the time. I don't think we should start buying games until they're mostly coded complete. Toy Story 4 is coded complete. That game is done, people. They might add a couple of things here or there, but they're not changing much. This is the game. Remember when like when Wonka came out and they're like, what you see is what you get? Yeah, that's it. What you see from Jersey Jack is what you're mostly going to get. They might make the game a little easier. I'm going to be honest with you, I'm not going to add much. Look at the people who have Pirates of the Caribbean. They're still waiting for the code update, for that final wizard mode. They still don't have it. If Cactus Canyon doesn't have this marvelous Lyman code update, have they been stalling for that reason? What is the reason why people have waited a year since they revealed the game? I don't know, but I'd be worried. For some of you out there, I hope you played your Cactuscanyons because while it has many toys, it's a pretty simple and easy game. It is a game that could get pretty boring. Paul DuV Artem, マ ヾ P今aufよし todavía Có37 synh Our NAShtrance Town Ab sticker pregnGHT suit mall-high starts June 13-18 intrigues grown in the I'm a fan of pinball and I love the idea of getting a pinball from a company like Stern who needs to stay on schedule. I like buying from a company like Stern that's gonna be around in 10 years because this is all they do. The moment Mukesh over at American Pinball gets tired of like losing money, he could just pull the plug on American Pinball tomorrow and it'll be over. You know, if the Abbas family just gets tired of this, why are we doing this? We're billionaires. We can make so much money doing other stuff. Subtitles by the Amara.org community The rumors out there asking for Back to the Future, here's why I don't know about Back to the Future because look, the thing I keep hearing people say is if it's Back to the Future, it's going to be a Kapow game. But I'm here to tell you that I think that James Bond is the Kapow game. Joe Kamikow is the biggest James Bond fan. He made for himself a custom Aston Martin, you know, the old school one with the ejecting seat and the spikes from the tires and like the bullet shield in the back. The first time I've ever seen a pinball contestant in a video, I was like, oh my god, he's going to be so good at this. But he's not going to be able to beat himself one of those. He probably spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on this build the same way he's a Batman fanatic and that's why he was associated with Batman 66. And so like Kamikaw's got a lot of muscle, a lot of clout in the entertainment space and I think if they make James Bond, I think you're going to see it be a Kapow Stern joint title. The reason why Kapow comes up all the time with Back to the Future is everybody knows I Time The good news is Steve Ritchie won be making it For some reason Stern would always hand over the biggest themes they get to Steve Ritchie like Game of Thrones like Star Wars you know and he would always fumble them So if they get Back to the Future I think everybody out there would want Keith Elwin to make a Back to the Future pin If it wasn Keith Elwin I would love to see like George Gomez and John Borg collaborate on it But I got an even better idea If Stern got Back to the Future a title so popular wouldn it be amazing if they all worked on it together? I mean, why not? You know, Stern is not like Bally Williams where they have to like have everything behind closed doors and keep it secret. They're not competing with each other. I don't know. Would that work? I don't even know if that would work. Maybe it does work better that there's only one designer, but what if you took all of those I'm going to be sitting with those guys in a room and say, hey, how would we do this? Sitting Franchiplicity, I think it would be fun to see what would come out of it. I think it would either work out incredibly well or it would be a colossal disaster. But I'd be willing to take that risk that Stern would never destroy a theme like Back to the Future. It's amazing how the vibe has shifted so much in pinball since Toy Story 4. Like themes like this, Le love le brevet. Cue nighttime gossip about them saying they want JJP הפürust, an allora junkie with hot polskiet. I think they're seeing their response to Toy Story 4. I think they're happy Pat is gone. And I think they're going to listen to Eric Meunier moving forward. I think they're going to load their games up again in the future. I have faith in Jersey Jack Pinball. I think there was a dark cloud over that company for 10 years. I think it was Pat. I also think Keith needs to be more efficient and get code fixed and listen to the feedback and make real updates to games like Guns N' Roses and we need to be pressuring him to do that and if you talk to Jack Guarnari and if you listen to my episode 500 one of the biggest reasons Jersey Jack Pinball went bankrupt is because Jack was waiting for Keith forever to finish code he never stayed on schedule Pat Lawler never stayed on schedule and I tend to believe that Eric Meunier is much more efficient he's much more prolific and he's much more creative See, when you're creative and you got real talent like Eric, you're designing this stuff in your sleep. Like you're waking up and you're making it a reality. Pat Lawler was out of ideas. And you know what happens when you're out of ideas and you're well past your prime? You know what happens? You stall. You take forever. You get like writer's block. You get like creative blocks. You don't know how to move it forward. You don't know how to make something in the game that brings the theme to life in a magical pinball way anymore. and we're seeing it with Toy Story. We're seeing it with that big screen in the upper left corner. Like that is the greatest example of a designer who ran out of ideas. He didn't run out of money people, he ran out of ideas. Now speaking of ideas with that upper screen, I gotta call something out here. I gotta call something out here. Look, Mezzle Mods makes great mods for pinball. They've been making great mods for pinball many, many years. But I just have to call out their mod for this Toy Story 4 screen in the upper left corner. They added a red frame to that screen and two white knobs that look like an Etch-A-Sketch. Okay, so I just want to say this right now. Shouldn't a mod make sense? Like isn't a mod's goal to sort of amplify what's there or make a better version of what is there? But that's not What's taking place on that screen is not the Etch-a-Sketch lines being drawn. Now I firmly believe that the screen that's in Wonka was supposed to be Etch-a-Sketch because it looks like an Etch-a-Sketch. It's more wide and less tall. I saw this and I was like, what are we doing here? Like this is not what mods are supposed to do because also that's now confusing. So why would you create an Etch-a-Sketch frame and then all of a sudden you're getting a pinball experience on that screen? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Again, I think they make great mods but there has to be some common sense in the mod space. Like if we're just tacking on stuff that makes absolutely no sense, I don't get it. I see the mods that Leora's doing for Toy Story and they're alright, like on the plastics and everything but there's not much people can do. There's really not much you can add to this game that's gonna add to the experience. See, I like pinball mods that add to the experience. Like if you take the Eye of Palantir in Lord of the Rings and then you make a better version of it, that adds to the experience. If you put a Gandalf with a lighted staff and when you're collecting Gandalf, his staff lights up, that adds to the experience. But if you just wrap a slinky dog around the left return lane in Toy Story, it doesn't add anything to the experience. And I think that's the thing with Toy Story is like all you can do is glue on stuff that does nothing to the pinball experience. And in fact it almost confuses people because you're going to walk up now and see all this stuff and you're going to expect that stuff to do stuff and it does nothing. Like if you walk up to the machine and you see an Etch-A-Sketch frame, oh wow, like look there's an Etch-A-Sketch in this pinball machine. Guess what? There's not. It's misleading and it's confusing. Alright, can Stern just get this teaser out? Can Kaneda stop complaining about stuff in the pinball world? Everybody, thank you so much for the support. It is awesome. We are staying so steady at like 526 club members. Thank you guys for joining the show. We're gonna keep going. It's gonna get so much better than this. If you enjoyed this show, I guarantee you it's just gonna get better and better as the games come out. Like, we're gonna see American Pinball's game. We're gonna see Queen. We're gonna We're going to see Stern's new game very soon. We're going to see Cactus Canyon and the Lyman Sheets Code very, very soon. There is a lot coming. We're going to see unboxings of Toy Story Collector's Edition. Will that start to change people's opinion of it? All this is coming very, very soon. And I guarantee you, I will be on top of it every single week giving you this show. And if we get a teaser today, trust me, I will put the mic back on and I will talk about the teaser for Stern's game. Everybody have a great I'm going to leave you with the last part of my Saturday morning show, which is coming up on Friday. Have a great weekend and I will be back on Facebook with my Saturday morning spectaculars when Stern's new game gets revealed. So when that happens, I'm turning it back on. Until then, I'm enjoying my Saturday mornings. Have a good day everybody and go watch RRR on Netflix. It'll blow you away. Later. Thank you.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: b72d8288-2f9a-4615-bab6-0693b452f898*