# The Pinball Show Ep 42: Slap Save Pinball Show **Source:** The Pinball Show **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2020-12-14 **Duration:** 122m 15s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.thepinballnetwork.net/e/the-pinball-show-ep-42-slap-save-pinball-show/ --- ## Analysis Jason Fowler, co-founder of the Pinball Network and former host of Slap Save Pinball podcast, returns as a guest on The Pinball Show to discuss his departure from pinball media earlier in 2024. He and host Zach Manning address the community controversy surrounding the Pinball Network's launch, clarifying that accusations of exclusivity were false and driven by influential detractors. Fowler reflects on stepping back from the hobby drama while maintaining his love for pinball, discusses his current collection of six machines, and offers encouragement to aspiring pinball content creators. The episode includes industry news updates covering Led Zeppelin pinball announcement, Guns N' Roses shipping activity, Haggis Clan merchandise, and Rick and Morty code updates. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] The Pinball Network faced organized opposition from influential community members prior to their reveal, including someone taking their company logo without permission — _Zach Manning describes a global ambassador taking their company logo before their reveal, saying 'this is getting scary'_ - [HIGH] Jason Fowler actively worked behind the scenes to recruit female and people of color for the Pinball Network, contradicting accusations of exclusivity — _Fowler states: 'Contacting females and people of color and anything that I could do to make sure that that wasn't seen that way'_ - [HIGH] Fowler reduced his personal collection from 23 machines to 6, kept Meteor, Flight 2000, Jurassic Park Premium, Guardians of the Galaxy Pro, Deadpool Premium, and The Hobbit — _Fowler lists his surviving collection after moving to a new house with less dedicated game room space_ - [MEDIUM] An unnamed influential person in pinball was encouraging to newcomers until they became 'too big' and then would 'lash out and try to take them down' — _Fowler describes losing respect for someone who influenced his early pinball ideas but later attacked others_ - [HIGH] Dwight Sullivan designed a board game that Jason Fowler purchased on eBay — _Fowler confirms: 'I own it. What? You bought it? I bought it, and I found it, like, in the depths of eBay'_ - [MEDIUM] Led Zeppelin is Stern's final cornerstone title for 2020, designed by Steve Ritchie with Tim Sexton on code — _News correspondent Craig reports: 'One can only assume that the King of Flowham Stealth, Steve Ritchie, got the nod as lead designer'_ - [HIGH] Slash praised Eric Meyer as 'one of the most amazing people I've ever worked with in any capacity' in a Consequence of Sound interview — _Ken Rudberg reports Jersey Jack's coverage in music magazine Consequence of Sound featuring the Slash quote_ ### Notable Quotes > "I miss more than anything else. I miss the contacts and the people that I always talk to when we did the show regularly." > — **Jason Fowler**, ~8:00 > _Fowler's emotional reflection on what he misses most after stepping away from podcasting, indicating the personal cost of his exit_ > "There's certain people in the hobby that are hyper-competitive, and they count numbers and listenership as their priority at the expense of everything else. Burning friendships, burning relationships. I'm not that way." > — **Jason Fowler**, ~25:00 > _Core explanation for Fowler's departure: fundamental philosophical difference with competitive individuals in the community_ > "If you've got to pay me to do it, very likely it's work I don't want to do." > — **Zach Manning**, ~35:00 > _Manning's philosophy on work vs passion, countering the 'do what you love' cliché_ > "If you're doing it the way you want to do it, you're doing it the right way. Because if you enjoy it and you think it's entertaining, other people will too." > — **Jason Fowler**, ~36:00 > _Encouragement to aspiring creators to stay true to their vision rather than respond to criticism_ > "I'm above the fray, as my son likes to say. He's a very wise, wise man." > — **Jason Fowler**, ~23:00 > _Fowler's new perspective after stepping back, suggesting he's achieved emotional distance from community drama_ > "one can only assume that the King of Flowham Stealth, Steve Ritchie, got the nod as lead designer, with Tim Sexton leading on code." > — **Craig Bobby (News Correspondent)**, ~43:00 > _Industry speculation about Led Zeppelin pinball's design team, though unconfirmed_ > "It's human nature for people to try to poke holes in things. Just talk to Stern and their advertising department. They know that people just want to be disruptors." > — **Jason Fowler**, ~27:00 > _Fowler contextualizes the attacks on TPN as part of broader industry dynamics of disruption-seeking_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Jason Fowler | person | Co-founder of Pinball Network, former host of Slap Save Pinball podcast, pinball charity philanthropist; stepped back from media in early 2024 due to community drama; currently owns 6 machines and focuses on life/family | | Zach Manning | person | Host of The Pinball Show; longtime friend of Fowler; orchestrated this interview; involved in TPN founding and experienced collateral damage from community attacks | | Pinball Network (TPN) | organization | Community podcast network founded by Zach Manning and Jason Fowler with goal of inclusive, non-competitive pinball media; faced organized opposition and false exclusivity accusations prior to launch | | Greg Bone | person | Co-host/co-founder of TPN; experienced community backlash; left podcasting; mentioned by Manning as feeling wronged despite doing nothing wrong | | Dennis | person | Co-host of show with Zach Manning; continuing with TPN after others departed; maintains operation despite drama | | Ken Cromwell | person | TPN co-founder; moved to work at a manufacturer following community drama | | Kaneda | person | Known pinball community figure whom Manning describes as a troll/disruptor he frequently engages with publicly | | Chris | person | Influential pinball personality described by Fowler as having theatrical persona; known for drumming up discussion and occasionally going off the rails | | Crystal Gimnick | person | The Swamp podcast host; woman Fowler specifically recruited for TPN to demonstrate inclusivity; later attacked as part of 'boys club' narrative | | Dwight Sullivan | person | Stern Pinball code designer; board game designer; close friend of Fowler who shares passion for complex rule sets | | Joel Engelberth | person | Host of 'Just Another Pinball Podcast'; huge fan of Fowler; inspired by him; described as pushing host out of way asking about Fowler | | Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; Led Zeppelin announced as final cornerstone title for 2020 | | Jersey Jack Pinball (JJP) | company | Major pinball manufacturer; shipping Guns N' Roses internationally; in head-to-head competition with Stern on music themes | | Haggis Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer shipping Clan Haggis Swag Pack; cabinetry/playfields assembled; game expected soon | | Spooky Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer; released new Rick and Morty code update on December 8 | | Eric Meyer | person | Jersey Jack Pinball game designer; Guns N' Roses designer; praised by Slash as 'one of the most amazing people I've ever worked with' | | Steve Ritchie | person | Legendary Stern Pinball designer; presumed designer of Led Zeppelin pinball | | Tim Sexton | person | Stern Pinball code designer; presumed code designer for Led Zeppelin | | Slash | person | Guns N' Roses guitarist; featured in Consequence of Sound interview praising Jersey Jack's Eric Meyer | ### Topics - **Primary:** Pinball Network community drama and aftermath, Jason Fowler's departure from pinball media, Pinball content creation and podcast landscape, Community inclusivity and representation in pinball - **Secondary:** Led Zeppelin pinball announcement, Guns N' Roses pinball shipping and reception, Pinball collecting and game room management - **Mentioned:** Haggis Pinball production updates ### Sentiment **Mixed** (0.55) — Episode balances reflective sadness about TPN drama and Fowler's exit with humor, warmth between hosts, and encouraging closing advice. Fowler demonstrates maturity and peace with his decision, though lingering hurt is evident. Community drama discussed critically but with hope for future. Positive reception of new game announcements provides uplift. ### Signals - **[business_signal]** Haggis Pinball cabinetry and playfields assembled with underside printing for assembly efficiency; machines expected to ship 'very soon' with some uncertainty (confidence: medium) — News update: 'cabinetry is pretty much assembled and completed. The playfields have been cut and printing is on the underside' and 'we should be getting our game still, hopefully. Very soon. We'll see.' - **[community_signal]** Organized, multi-person campaign to sabotage/attack Pinball Network prior to launch; accusations of exclusivity contradicted by evidence of active recruiting of women and people of color (confidence: high) — Fowler: 'one influencer that's a global ambassador took my fucking company logo, Jason, prior to our reveal and said, oh, I've got it.' Manning confirms targeting of TPN members caused collateral damage to friends. - **[event_signal]** Haggis Pinball shipped Clan Haggis Swag Pack (merchandise) to Australian customers first, then international orders to follow (confidence: high) — Dr. John: 'Haggis...shipping their Clan Haggis Swag Pack, which includes everything from hats to t-shirts...Aussies would have already received theirs' - **[sentiment_shift]** Strong positive reception to Fowler's return and closure discussion; community still references his work months after departure (confidence: high) — Manning: 'Were you surprised at all with that positive response from the community when you left podcasting? I mean, people still reference Slap Safe. People still reference Missing Fowler.' - **[community_signal]** Encouragement from multiple voices for aspiring pinball content creators to enter the field despite drama/challenges (confidence: medium) — Fowler advises: 'For people that are thinking about dipping into this, you're saying do it. The more the merrier.' Manning mentions Joel Engelberth as inspired creator. - **[licensing_signal]** Slash's participation in Guns N' Roses pinball promotion and interview praising designer Eric Meyer indicates active IP owner/performer engagement (confidence: high) — Ken Rudberg reports Slash interview in Consequence of Sound: 'one of the most amazing people I've ever worked with in any capacity' regarding Eric Meyer - **[market_signal]** Guns N' Roses pinball continuing strong international shipping and media coverage; JJP competing directly with Stern on rock music themes (confidence: high) — Jersey Jack posted shipment to Australia; coverage in Consequence of Sound music magazine; head-to-head positioning mentioned - **[community_signal]** Ken Cromwell transitioned from TPN co-founder to working at a pinball manufacturer, likely following community controversy (confidence: medium) — Manning mentions 'Ken Cromwell working at a manufacturer' as consequence of TPN drama - **[personnel_signal]** Multiple TPN co-founders (Greg Bone, Ken Cromwell) left or changed roles due to community backlash; Jason Fowler exited podcasting entirely (confidence: high) — Manning states: 'here we are now with you not doing a podcast anymore, Greg Bone being so sour that he's out, Ken Cromwell working at a manufacturer' - **[announcement]** Led Zeppelin pinball officially announced as Stern's final cornerstone title for 2020; presumed designer Steve Ritchie, code designer Tim Sexton (confidence: medium) — News correspondent Craig: 'the rock icons of Led Zeppelin are officially coming to the Stern pinball world as Stern's final cornerstone title for 2020' - **[product_strategy]** Rick and Morty code update released December 8 including new dimensions (snowball, swamp/gator adventure) and gameplay mechanics (confidence: high) — Dr. John update: 'Rick and Morty Code has dropped new code dated the 8th of December, includes a number of new dimensions, including a snowball dimension' - **[sentiment_shift]** Fowler achieving emotional distance from drama; describes new 'bird's-eye view' and being 'above the fray'; no longer bothered by attacks that initially stung (confidence: high) — Fowler: 'I'm above the fray, as my son likes to say' and 'I don't want to give the satisfaction...It doesn't [hang over me]. I'm over it. I'm fine.' --- ## Transcript Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. How do I say goodbye To what we had Ladies and gentlemen, it's the Pinball Show, and I'm your host, Zach Manning, here with Episode 42. I've got a special treat for you today. That is because our special guest co-host this week is another friend of mine. I thought we'd get to see forever You know him as one of the co-founders of the Pinball Network. Hell, he's a pinball charity philanthropist, a former pinball personality, and creator of the Slap Save Pinball podcast, and he's pinball's favorite everyman. Ladies and gentlemen, Jason Fowler. Wow, thanks a lot, Zach. It's good to be here. That was the best intro I think I've ever had, and I haven't had many, so I'll tell you that. That probably knocks it down a little bit, but, yeah, thanks. Wow, I'm so glad you're here. I found you out in the woods living in a cave, and you had a long beard, and you were wearing just a garment, albeit a long garment, around your mid-waist area. Yeah, we actually started a cult with pinball, and the garment was actually covering our uniform, which is briefs, not boxers. and we have photos of Steve Ritchie and we do chants and we make blood sacrifices to Gary Stern. And we use a lot of LED candles because fire. We don't want to cause any danger. So, yeah. So, Jason, you and I have been friends for a long, long time. I thought it only fitting to have a Greg Bowen in and then your schedules finally coordinated with mine so we could have you in. I like the feel of, you know, everybody gets interviews of creators and stuff, but I'm kind of liking this groove that I'm getting into with interviewing my friends in pinball media. So with that being said, where in the hell have you been? What is going on? Just family stuff. You know, we bought a house, and there is a lot that goes along with that. And I still love pinball. I've stepped back a little bit. I still enjoy it. I still play it. I just take a little more of a bird's-eye view now. And that's what I've been up to, really. It hasn't been much change. Okay. You've still been sitting overhead and watching a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, I keep an eye on things, the new games that come out. You know, I just try to separate myself a little bit from the shenanigans and the drama. Everybody uses that word, but it's true because there is a fair amount of drama in pinball, believe it or not. Yeah, a bit. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm enjoying things, and life's going well. Have you missed pinball? Because you were in deep, real deep. Yeah, I miss more than anything else. I miss the contacts and the people that I always talk to when we did the show regularly. The show is a lot of work, but it's fun, and it introduces you to people. I made a lot of friends through the show that I still talk to now, but it's obviously slowed down a little bit. But, yeah, I have no regrets for anything we did, and sometimes I miss it. Sometimes I even kick around possibly doing something again. Uh-oh. I don't know. Coming soon. I don't know. All right. I love that I contacted you to do this, and I asked you, like, the dumbest questions ever because you were like, Zach, really? Like, of course I've prepped. Of course I've got the notes. Of course, you know, I've got my microphone set up. I've got it all set up. We're good to go. And it was great to hear Fowler's back with his OCD-like tendencies when it comes to equipment and preparation. Yeah, I have a disease of OCD, and it definitely flares up with anything like this. I did not find my microphone, though. And I don't know if those of you that listen to us maybe on a regular basis, I was pretty proud of our sound quality. Oh, yeah. And right now I'm using basically a russet potato on a set of earphones to record this because that's all I can find. Well, it's the aluminum foil that you wrapped it around. I think that helps. Yeah, yeah. We're going to make it work, though. Absolutely. So I know that you get into things. And when you get into things, you're like me. You just, oh, you really dive in. And sometimes you get a little close to the sun. But have you been into anything else since the listeners have heard you last? video games, hockey, like anything else that you've dived. But board gaming, I know when you were kind of taking a step back, you were dabbling into board gaming more. I know you're obsessive nature, Fowler. What have you been digging into? You're correct. I am. I have a friend of mine that calls me the comet because I burn really brightly on things, and then all of a sudden I'm gone, and it takes a while to swing back around. But it does swing back around. And pinball has always been there. But, yes, you're right. Dabbled into some board game stuff. I've always enjoyed watches. I've always sort of collected watches. Do you like Crescent? Yeah. Dennis and I talk a lot about our watch obsessions. And I don't know. It's just the same thing that draws me to pinball. It's that mechanical, old-school application of engineering and everything that draws me into watches I really love. And, yeah, I've always been into cars. So I'm constantly doing car things. You're into cars, motorbikes. Yeah, I think my motorcycle days are over. I'm 45 now. Thank you. I don't trust myself or the 15-year-old girls that are texting on the highway. Yeah. But, yeah, I don't trust being on a bike anymore. But, yeah, the car thing, that's always been there and will never go away. Is there something that's brewing for you in a hobby? jigsaw puzzles, Pokemon, anything that's starting to wet your whistle, J-Fal? Did you really say Pokemon? Pokemon. It's a hot thing right now, baby. Have you seen, trending out this week is Pokemon trading cards. I can promise you I will not be getting into Pokemon. I know nothing about it. No, I don't think there's anything else that's, I mean, it's a full-time job getting a house where you want it to be. That's no deal. Three, four months ago, and that has sort of become my obsession lately. But, yeah, there's nothing else really on the horizon that I can see. So let's hear the, do we have a game room in the new place, a place you call your own? We do. And I'll say one thing that's tough when you've made a game room at an old home that you truly love, that is hard to find in a house that you are looking to buy. And we had a ton of space. I had a lot of games. I think I got up to some ridiculous number. It was like 23. Wow. Wow. And they all fit, but looking at houses, even this house is much bigger than our last, but it didn't have that dedicated area. So I have six games that survived the call. Oh, nice. That's the term I use. Yeah, the call when we knew we were moving and I was kind of stepping back a little bit, decided to sell a lot of the games, and I kept six of my favorites. Those have not changed. They are the same. and we have an area that they fit in really well and then we still have like a den. So we're kind of, I'm kind of maxed out at that maybe two more. Any ideas as to what they may be? So I think you may know because I have planned an Avengers and the Guns N' Roses. Oh, damn. Good choices. Yeah. Yeah, I'm hoping that the Guns N' Roses survives my temperamental ways because I have this thing with music pens where even if I love the band, if I hear the music too much, I start to get a gag reflex. And it's happened with Metallica and ACDC. I love both those games. Maybe even Iron Maiden to a little bit. But, yeah, they start to wear on me a little bit, and then I don't want to listen to music anymore. So I'm scared because I love a particular band that I think we're going to talk about that's coming out. But I'm afraid to buy the machine. I don't know. I probably will. G&R, you've got over 22 songs, and each one of them is individually choreographed with lighting. You'll be fine on that one. I think so, too. I'm looking forward to it. So let's recap what's in your collection currently. People want to know. The ones that I hung on to are Meteor, Flight 2000, Jurassic Park Premium, Guardians of the Galaxy. That's a pro. Deadpool Premium. And the much hated but loved by me Hobbit that I will never get rid of. If I have one game left, that'll be it. I love that. Are you playing as much, though? Probably not. We did the stream for a while, and that was probably the most I was playing pinball. That was like the pinnacle of things. So now if I've got time, I'll run down, turn one on, play for a while. But it's nice because you don't get burnt out on the same games all the time. I feel like a few less games kind of fits the mold better when you're not playing every hour of every day. I find myself appreciating pinball more when I'm busy with media or editing stuff. I won't play as much, but then when I do, it feels even better. For sure, yeah. So upon your exit, this was earlier this year. TPN was rolling around February. We were working on it January, end of December-ish. This rolls around, and we'll talk about that. But were you surprised, Jason, all of the overwhelming positive response from the community when you left podcasting? I mean, people still reference Slap Safe. People still reference Missing Fowler. Were you surprised at all with that positive response? Absolutely. Yeah, it's very humbling, and I really appreciate it. We're just, I've always said, we're just two guys that love pinball, and we just threw a show together. And granted, I'm OCD, and I planned maybe a little more than what most would. Just a bit. Yeah, yeah, I try to give everything I do 100%, and I certainly did with that. But to see, I guess, it pay off in the form of people complimenting what you are doing and saying we appreciate your look on this or your opinion on that, it really makes you feel good. And, yeah, I do miss it occasionally. I love the creative aspect of it. I just, it got to where when you have a full-time job, when you have a family that is your priority and always will be, it is sometimes tough to look the other way when things are maybe being misconstrued or they're representing you in a way that you aren't. And I felt like that was starting to happen a little bit more, and maybe that's just because we got more popular. You know, if nobody talks about you, then you're probably not doing something right. That's true. That's very true. I think you know that when we started the Pinball Network, you know, my goal with that was simply to just get with some of my best friends in pinball and do something bigger and just include more people and just make it more fun to sort of liven things up a little bit. And when it got out of the gate, and I think we had some saboteurs that sort of wanted things to fail that were really persistent and maybe were able to get some meat behind these ridiculous claims that they were making. They were supremely influential in The Hobbit. Yes. Among some people that I think don't really look closely at the facts, there was a lot of people that I respected that were starting to question maybe some of our motives or the way we were going about things. And it stung, and it still does. I consider myself someone who is inclusive of everyone and anyone, and I have a wife that is the breadwinner of the family for the most part. And my respect for her and all the hard work she does, I felt like was undermined by some of the things that were being said about us that I knew couldn't be any further from the truth, and it didn't sit well with me. It does hurt. Greg Bone was alluding to that a couple episodes ago for those listeners. He talked about the ongoing sting and still feeling like, you know, boy, we really tried to set forth something that was so inclusive of everybody and so welcoming and just fun. He just wanted to have fun. And he said it turned very quickly the opposite of fun. And he said he wasn't doing anything wrong, but he felt like he was a bad person. He didn't do anything. And for him, it was nice because he wanted to be able to continue doing some media podcasting, but couldn't do so without at least getting off his chest some of the things that were still a burden to him and he still thought about for the pinball community. So with that, I do think that some of and a lot of your listeners, in particular your listeners, they would love to have some of that closure. So can you tell me a little bit, Jason, about what the hell happened? Like what was the last straw kind of thing? I think what I referenced with just maybe our lack of inclusivity with people. when I was behind the scenes working so hard to ensure just the opposite. Contacting females and people of color and anything that I could do to make sure that that wasn't seen that way. And, you know, it was unfortunate timing because we were at a place with the show where we wanted to kind of keep things under wraps and not talk about it a whole lot because we wanted to have this grand reveal where we could be really proud of. And I think that was maybe a mistake on our part because instead of getting information out there, people jumped to conclusions a little bit. And I don't want to give the satisfaction to the people that were involved that left that thing that Greg is talking about of thinking that that still hangs over me. It doesn't. I'm over it. I'm fine. But I think that it's important in this hobby for everyone to realize that we're all sort of rowing in the same direction in these boats. Like we're all wanting the same thing. Now, there's certain people in the hobby that are hyper-competitive, and they count numbers and listenership as their priority at the expense of everything else. Burning friendships, burning relationships. I'm not that way. And when it got to where it was that sort of game, it was time for me to step back. And like I said, I still love pinball. I always will. But my viewpoint now is a little further back, so I'm above the fray, as my son likes to say. He's a very wise, wise man. It sounds like you took a step back, and I know this stuff, but the listeners, so that they can know, because the response that we were receiving was not true. it was a loud response from influential people was not true to what we were trying to do. Correct. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah, you were referencing our excitement about a reveal and getting stuff out there. And that's what a lot of people I've spoken to, maybe not on air here, Jason, but I don't think people realized as we were trying to create this nice community of non-competition and everything, everybody was before our reveal people were taking that and attacking prior to so our point of getting that reveal out was crap they need to at least we need to at least show them as quickly as possible that this isn't anything crazy this isn't any like we're trying to help the community we need to get something out there because i mean i know one influencer that's a global ambassador took my fucking company logo, Jason, prior to our reveal and said, oh, I've got it. Here's the network. And we're like, what is going on? Wow. Like, this is getting scary. So we get that promotional material out there, and then we get the backlash of, wait a minute, it doesn't include. We're like, well, we tried to. We were in whatever. What a mess. It is. It still stinks for me, too. Yeah. It's human nature for people to try to poke holes in things. Just talk to Stern and their advertising department. They know that people just want to be disruptors, and they want to make a name for themselves by sort of kicking up dust and making things either more difficult or even fail. And I'm glad to see that it didn't fail. You're still going strong. You and Dennis do a fantastic job, always have, and I knew you would. and I had a little bit of guilt feeling like I abandoned some of my friends at a time of need because I knew how much work this was and you guys were putting in. And I think I feel fortunate that you and I cleared the air early on, I feel like, and I hope that you understand what my motivations were for what I did. Absolutely, without a doubt, 100%. And I think it was a healthy choice for you, and I'm glad you made it because here you are now. Last point, and then we'll move on, Jason. Yeah. There's a lot of – we could pick some trolly people in this hobby. A lot of people know them. One of the people I go back and forth with is Kanae, and I'll call Kanae out because he and I are – we're in the wrestling ring a lot together, for better or worse. That was expected and we received that And it is what it is, it's fine That is the typical response that I was expecting I'm good with that Kaneda is going to be Kaneda, it's going to be Kaneda Fine, shout out to you Kaneda But were you surprised at it being more people That were trying to derail this Prominent people besides Kaneda Oh absolutely And I think that's what took me off guard more so than anything else. Chris, I talk to him from time to time, not so much now since I've stepped back, but I used to. And I respect Chris. And I think Chris is an actor where he sort of drums up a little bit of this. I don't want to say it's an act, but he knows what gets people excited, what gets people talking. He does. He's very good at it. And that's what he does for a living to a certain degree. And he has a lot of great ideas. And there's some of his shows where I think that he really says things that need to be said. But on the other hand, sometimes it gets off the rails. And that's part of Chris's personality. And you come to kind of expect that there is a theatric to his persona that makes him what he is. But when everyday people that you respect and you know are even keeled and level-headed and basically are thoughtful when it comes to this sort of thing, start questioning your motivations. Even though the evidence is nonexistent, to say the least, there was nothing there. And it went the other way, actually. Like I said, I was working behind the scenes contacting people. And then when that was released, it was all kind of swept under the rug. Like it doesn't matter. Sorry to interrupt. If you say people are questioning, would you disagree with the statement that people were attacking? Questioning and attacking is different. They were attacking, yes. Yeah, I'll never forget. I was in talks with Crystal to start the show. Crystal Gimnick from the Swamp, yeah. Yes. She was one of the ones that I lobbied for the most because I know Crystal really well. I respect her knowledge of pinball, and she was just starting out, and I was like, you can do this. You know, and she's done a great job. And that was something I worked really hard on was to try to get that to work out. And then at the same time, it's being said that we didn't want any females involved and that it was just this boys club. And that kind of been further from the truth. I could beat this horse to a pulp. But the bottom line is we were a group of people that were trying to just bring everyone at no cost another idea in pinball. And it just had a lot of holes poked in it, I think, for no reason. You talked about having some respect of expected trolls here and there in the plaza. Have you lost respect for some people in this industry? Absolutely. There is one in particular that was, I'm not going to name names, but he was influential in a lot of the ideas I had when I got into the game, I guess if you want to call it that. And there's a guise there that he is very accepting and encouraging of people that start. And I think that is the case unless they get too big and they start sort of circling his fire hydrant. and then he lashes out and tries to take him down. And that made me lose respect for this person more than much. And I want to, I did the same for Greg Bone. I want to publicly apologize to you, Fowler, because whenever we started this thing, I had some bullseye and some targets on me as I, that's just me. And by proxy, a lot of my friends were hurt. from someone's aim at destroying anything that I'm a part of. I didn't realize it was going to be to the extent that it was, and here we are now with you not doing a podcast anymore, Greg Bone being so sour that he's out, Ken Cromwell working at a manufacturer, and me and Dennis, but I want to apologize for my lack of awareness that being a part of something that I was aiming to help everybody would have caused my closest of friends shrapnel that just wasn't fair and, quite frankly, was disgusting. So my apologies there, bud. It's collateral damage. And I knew it going into it. You even mentioned it. And I guess it just made me realize how much stuff is levied towards you and other people in the hobby that are doing what I think is good things. And, no, there's no hard feelings at all. And you were the one that got us recording in the first place. So I really appreciate that. And, yeah, I think you should just keep on keeping on and ignore the haters. That's the one thing you should take out of this. And if you are thinking about getting into pinball media, please do. That's what I was going to ask. For people that are thinking about dipping into this, you're saying do it. The more the merrier. I love that there's a variety of shows out there that sort of tackle things from different angles. And I think the one thing I would tell people to do is do what you enjoy and just ignore all of the feedback that isn't moving you in the right direction because you're going to get it. Once you get big enough, you're going to hear that you're not doing things the right way, quote, unquote. But if you're doing it the way you want to do it, you're doing it the right way. Because if you enjoy it and you think it's entertaining, other people will too. Because regardless, if you're doing it right, it's going to become an amount of work. I don't care if – Absolutely. I don't care. You know, people, the old adage is, oh, you don't work a day if you're doing something. Bullshit. Bullshit. Here's my saying. I always tell people this, Fowler. If you've got to pay me to do it, very likely it's work I don't want to do. Right? Yeah. That's true. Those are really wise words from you, Jason Fowler. I know that we have a provider, Joel Engelberth. He does just another pinball podcast. He is hands down, he's just, he's cheating right now listening to you. I know this. He's probably listening three times by now. Turn it off, Joel. But he is your biggest fan. Like, he's pushed me out of the way, increased a lot of the way. He's like, but where's Fowler? And I don't know if you've listened to his podcast yet, but. I have. Okay, great. Joel is great. Yeah, he actually reached out to me early on, and he is very flattering to me. I have no idea why. He's such a huge fan, man. I know. Well, and it thrills me that if I influence someone, and that's funny to say with just 50 shows, but if I entertained him and influenced him, then I'm thrilled to death. And, Joel, keep doing what you're doing and keep keeping on, buddy. I felt like fucking Ringo Starr. I'm like, oh, fine. You want McCartney's fucking signature? Whatever. Fine. I do great work as well. Before we get into the news, Jason Fowler, that's why everybody's here. They want to hear Fowler. They want to hear some pinball news. What's in your future? Are we going to hear from you again? Do you feel yourself easing back into pinball? Are you going to stay away? Are you going to dabble? Or am I going to hear you doing a fucking board gaming pinball podcast? What is your future? No, I'm not doing a board gaming podcast, nor watches, nor cards. You and Dwight Sullivan? co-hosting a board game? Actually, this is a true story. Dwight and I talked about our love of board games, and I found – did you know that Dwight designed a board game? Absolutely. I own it. What? You bought it? I bought it, and I found it, like, in the depths of eBay, because it's been distributed. The depths of Mordor. Yeah, exactly. And my sole goal is to have that signed by Dwight when we finally get back to being able to go to shows, and I see him again. I love Dwight. He is one of the best people in pinball, and he is full of ideas and super talented with whatever he does. God, I love that guy too. How's the game though? Be honest. Is it any good? It's good. Here's the meditation. You hear that, Dwight? No, no, no. It's not. The thing is, it's not everyone's cup of tea. Now, the board games I'm talking about are very in-depth. It's like a lot of people hear board games and they're thinking it's Sorry or Monopoly or something. My favorite. This is a game that you get to sit down and you've got to read the rule book just like Dwight is. That's where his passion for deep rule sets, I feel, comes from, is his familiarity with board games and their complexity at times. And it's neat because you get to see a little bit of Dwight's thinking in this game. And it's fun. It really is. Dwight, like I said, he's talented at whatever he does. So if he made another board game, I'd buy it. But does his board game have a shitload of multipliers and bright lights and side missions? It doesn't. But it has a fair share of depth. It really does. It does not have, no. No 100x body kill count or damage? No, no, nothing like that. Maybe you and I push to try to get Dwight doing another board game and us appearing on it somewhere. I can't get on a pinball machine. I'm going to stop trying. But a board game. Maybe that's what you're saying. I would be all in. Chances are it would be some medieval theme. And, yeah, you would be – maybe you could be the dragon. Like a – Like some sort of like – Yeah. I was going to say you as an elf. You're very elfish. Really tall, wise. What are you talking about? Elves aren't tall Aren't they short No the elves Like in Lord of the Rings They're always Like the ones With the blonde hair And the blue eyes Yeah Yeah I guess I can see that Everybody likes to think Of themselves As more of a Sword clad warrior Or something That's where I was Going with me A man like You know Return of the King But you went dragon So thanks Yeah Thank you Sorry I'm coming for your town I'm tickled to even have you back. I appreciate you giving people some closure there. I think that is very helpful and it was to myself as well. People are here to also listen about some pinball news. Let's take it over to our correspondents to hear about the most recent rumblings around the industry and then we'll poke Fowler to see what all he has missed over the last year. You ready? I am. Let's do it. I forgot your nickname. What was your name? Jay Fizzle? Is that it? I think so. I don't know that you ever got a solid one for me. I sometimes was happy. I'm not bad. Sorry. I know you hate them. It's time for TPN Industry News. Hey everyone, Craig here again, the pinball show's Stern News Correspondent. Yes, the rock icons of Led Zeppelin are officially coming to the Stern pinball world as Stern's final cornerstone title for 2020 after months of speculation and rumor. The announcement caps off with what can only be described as Stern's biggest and best year of Power Pack themes to date, and was of course received by much fanfare and excitement on Stern's Facebook and YouTube channel, as well as other social media outlets. One can only assume that the King of Flowham Stealth, Steve Ritchie, got the nod as lead designer, with Tim Sexton leading on code. However, all of those details, including the artist and, of course, a song list, will most likely be known later this week once Stern makes their official full trailer revealed. And with GNR still fresh in everyone's minds, it will be very interesting to compare and contrast these two juggernaut music themes as JJP and Stern go head-to-head for ultimate pinball rock supremacy. Let the good times of new pinball design roll on. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Rock on, everyone! week Jersey Jack posted a picture of a shipment going to Australia so it looks like machines are continuing to ship out internationally and flash continues on the Guns N' Roses pinball hype train this time with consequence of sound magazine just wanted to say that this is clearly a music magazine and not a pinball one seeing as they have a picture of flash standing in front of a a, quote, Jersey Jack Pinball light board, also known as a play field. But what I thought was interesting was just how much respect Slash has for Eric Meunier. In the interview, he says he's, quote, one of the most amazing people I've ever worked with in any capacity. Considering who Slash has had a chance to work with over his career, I'd say that's pretty high praise. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg. Hello and welcome to this week's SHIT Update with Dr John on the Pinball Show. At last, some news out of the Haggis and Spooky Camps, with Haggis first off shipping their Clan Haggis Swag Pack, which includes everything from hats to t-shirts, dummy holders, pens, key fobs, commemorative coins, and a stack of other things. Aussies would have already received theirs if you joined the clan or ordered a game, and those overseas will be getting those in the mail at some stage in the future. Nice for the Aussies to get something first for a change. Damien also posted that cabinetry is pretty much assembled and completed. The playfields have been cut and printing is on the underside to help with assembly, which seems like a good idea. And we should be getting our game still, hopefully. Very soon. We'll see. On the spooky front, Rick and Morty Code has dropped new code dated the 8th of December, includes a number of new dimensions, including a snowball dimension where he's searching for something that he lost. Those who watch the show will know what that is. Plus a gator adventure in a swamp where you lose your GI and you have to watch out for gators. And a number of others. Plus two new adventures, one being Scary Terry, which overcame any licensing issues because he has no resemblance to a certain horror character. and the other, the semi-wizard mode where your 10th adventure, you can choose Rick Potion number 9. I hope you all look forward to playing that and if you haven't played it, hopefully eventually you'll get out and find one to play because the game is brutally fun. Anyway, we'll catch you all with the next update. Thanks for listening. Hey, this is Kaz with an American Pinball update. An amazing story this week as Project Pinball, along with Jason Fowler, placed some new pinball machines in the St. Louis area. They placed a Beatles at the Mercy Children's Hospital, and they placed a brand new Hot Wheels at the Cardinal Glennon Children's Hospital. This is all due to the fundraiser, Devil With a Cause, that was held by Jason and Matt on the Slap Save Pinball Podcast last year. They were able to raise enough money for two machines to be placed with donations from all over the world. And I reached out to Jason, and he said he was glad to see the games finally placed and thanked everyone for their support. So hopefully having these new pins will help put a smile on the face of a sick kid and their families. For more info and videos, check out the American Pinball Facebook page and also the Project Pinball Charity Facebook page. Hope everybody has a great week and has fun playing pinball. For the Pinball Show, this is Brian Costner. Chris Chandler here with the latest in the world of Deep Root. On a personal note, and to just get this out of the way, the Deep Six were finally released from our NDA. So stay tuned for an upcoming TPS Midweek Edition with myself and Craig Bobby, where I expand on some of the news you're going to hear here, as well as some thoughts and comments, including some information I was unable to share before. So with that out of the way, yes, it's finally happened. After multiple years in the making, Raza is now ready to order. No five days of Deep Root, no major fanfare, but it's finally a reality. Deep Root's website has launched, and it looks similar to the website leak that was mentioned in the last report. But there are multiple critical differences. I'll just stick to the highlights, though. First, there are only two editions of Raza instead of three. There's the Arcade and the Extra, which is similar to the Pro and LE and the Stern models. The Arcade edition, there's no limit on how many will be made, and it starts at $58.99. The Extra Edition is limited to 300 units and starts at $94.99. So wait, I said starts at? Well, yeah, because you can customize each of these models with various options. Standard options like Powder Coat and Shaker are available, as well as some new customizations like additional toys and a pin bar screen protector, or even a pin pod to protect your precious new pin purchase. One other key change is that the Arcade Edition jumped from a supposed $49.99 to $58.99. Note, the previous mention of a subscription model is absent, though, so we have to assume that the $549 subscription fee has just been rolled into that $900 jump. While there's not a limit to the number of RASs for sale, the time they are available for purchase ends on December 30th. This falls in line with earlier discussions from Robert Mueller, where he said he really wants to get Raza out the door and then move on to their other titles. Robert also made the media rounds talking to the Pinball News and Pinball Magazine podcast, which I'm just going to call PNP for short, as well as Jeff Teolis' pinball profile. There were plenty of spicy nuggets dropped on those interviews, but a key item to note was confirmation of my suspicion on the subscription front. Robert clearly laid out that the subscription model is not about keeping the full game code behind a paywall. The pins will ship with full code, full feature set, available whether you have the subscription or not. Instead, the subscription will be more like a season pass model common in a lot of games these days. Now that said, whereas season passes apply to one game, this subscription model actually applies to all the Deep Root pins you own. So given this model, I can see, especially as Deep Root gets out multiple titles and you happen to own them, that that subscription model could turn out to be a pretty decent value. Now imagine buying an alternative rule set with just a few taps of the pin bar. In fact, in the Pinball Profile interview, Steven Bowden actually gave an example where he sort of implied that he's already working on a completely different rule set for Raza as DLC. So with the subscription model, we're not talking about adding a wizard mode or some slight tweaks. We're talking about an entirely reinvented rule set. This ability to reinvent how you play the game would really help extend the mileage out of your initial purchase. And this type of rules remixing is what I thought the homebrew section of the website would be about. Turns out actually homebrew in this context is Deep Root wanting to build your homemade pinball creation. So long as you can guarantee at least 25 people will buy one. Not really sold on this model as making a flippable pin is one thing, but making that pin into something that could be reasonably manufactured is quite a different story. Moreover, it just seems like a distraction that Deep Root can scarcely afford at this point. Getting back to the website, it also includes videos like a Raza walkthrough with Steven and Quinn, and some of the video that was recorded when the Deep Six visited in September. Definitely check out that Raza walkthrough to get a better feel for what the pin is all about. So, they've launched, they're selling, but let's get to what ultimately matters. Can Deep Root actually make pins reliably and quickly? When the Deep Six visited in September, we did see their manufacturing area, but it was basically empty. There's no bins full of parts, no in-progress machines. During our September visit, Robert did walk us through the often-mentioned quad manufacturing process at a sort of high level. I'm not a manufacturing expert, but it sounded a lot like what's called cell manufacturing to me. He mentioned on PNPMP that this has changed in the three months since our visit, but it all comes down to this. People need to see pictures of Raza being made in boxes and shipping out. There's a reason why you saw JJP post across social media that they had tons of GNRs in boxes ready to go. We've seen countless pinball startups that get to the prototype phase or even kick out a production model to bring to a show, but have failed when it comes to do the most important thing, make pins that scale repeatedly and with great quality. You know, Robert even mentioned in the Pinball Profile interview that, quote, we have quite a few RASAs in the building. So if that's the case, Deep Root should show these and give us confidence that they won't fail to deliver like so many before them. To bring up a famous Elon Musk quote, large-scale manufacturing, especially the new technology, is something between 1,000 and 10,000 times harder than the prototype. Unfortunately, outside indicators imply that not many people are willing to take the risk on Raza right now. Perhaps for this exact reason. An order number shared on Thursday by Jockton of Pinshades fame indicates that there had only been 25 orders of Raza up to that point, two days after the launch. My hope is that Deep Root comes away with all this with a new and intensified focus on what matters. The core pinball experience, proven rock-solid manufacturing, and themes that open up wallets. For all the great things they're trying to do to innovate, if Deep Root can't stick around long enough to survive, it sadly will have all been in vain. With your Deep Root update, this is Chris Chandler. All right, Jason, we heard from the correspondents. Always nice hearing from them. You can't talk pinball without first bringing up Stern Pinball. Well, this last week, Listener and Fowler, they announced a new cornerstone title, Led Zeppelin. Wowee. Led Zeppelin, one of my favorite bands. It's a top three, top five band for me. But the rumor is that we're going to get, because we just got the teaser, the Iron Maiden, where they just show the logo. We just got that. We don't know what it looks like. We don't know who's designing it. We don't know who's coding it. We know nothing. We don't know assets. We don't know artwork. We know nothing. But the rumor is that there is likely a reveal this week. This is Monday. So any day now. I'm not saying it's tomorrow, but any day it could be. And the rumor is Steve Ritchie on Lead Design, which I know you're a fan of, Ritchie, man, and Tim Sexton, that collaboration yet again. So I ask you this, Valor. Led Zeppelin. How do you feel about the theme and the license of Led Zeppelin? I think I've talked about this on our show where this was one of my holy grails. Led Zeppelin, to me, and the era I grew up in, they were the top dog as far as bands that you listened to and wanted to be as cool as. And I cannot wait to see what Steve Ritchie and Tim Sexton come up with for this, if that is the case of who's working on it. And I loved Black Knight. That was their last collaboration. You were a big fan of Black Knight, weren't you? I did, yeah. And I think that it maybe didn't get the praise that it deserved. You know Stern is like, we have got the golden goose right here in this band. And I bet you they throw everything they can at it. I cannot wait to see what they come up with. I still have no clue how they got the license. I know I'm a broken record. But, listener, the license to Led Zeppelin is one of the most difficult. We talk about Harry Potter and the Beatles, Star Wars. The Led Zeppelin license is damn near impossible. I know at least for film. Using a Led Zeppelin song in a film, good luck. You are dumping countless money into it. And that's even if they approve. They have to, like, read the script of the film or of the film series. to even approve the use of that song for the work that they're trying to convey. They are picky. Yes. If you ever, I love School of Rock and I love Jack Black, and if you ever watch that movie, watch the making of, Jack Black goes into the difficulty they had getting a Led Zeppelin song in that movie and what they had to go through to do it. And he said it was job number one. So if there's one thing to be taken away from this is when it comes to difficult licenses, Stern, they are the best in the business. They really are. Because if you look at what they've got with Beatles, like you said, and Rumors and Harry Potter. Jurassic Park. They've got them all. Yeah. They really do. And I think, you know, sometimes they do them better than others. But I cannot wait to see what they come up with. I'm not going to ask for your favorite Led Zeppelin song Because that would require you off the top of your head To think of something that is your favorite Unless you know it What's one of your just Riddler Yeah I'd say Rock and roll Is probably One of my favorites It's not something I listen to every day anymore, but when I was in college, I literally wore those out. And I'm talking about starting an album and finishing it, not like playing one or two songs a year. Did you have long hair? I didn't. I wanted that for you. No, I never did. Torn jeans? Oh, yeah, I went through that phase. Everybody did. I had an earring. Oh, baby. I'm going to go with one of my favorites that never gets old is Over the Hills and Far Away. That's a good one. Man, that screaming mid. Oh, it builds up. They build it for you. Big fly match I feel like I'm having sex every time I'm listening to an album Multiple times Shout out to Jeff T. Ellis He's a huge huge huge Led Zeppelin fan I'm sure he's climbing the stairway to heaven right now With this recent release The only thing that worries me Fizzle Is that it didn't work Jay Fizzle just doesn't work I feel like It doesn't anymore I feel like you've become something else And I just don't know what yet you were Jay Fizzle, but then now you're much wiser now. I don't know. I don't, I've been accused of a lot of things, but being wiser is definitely not one of them. I feel like you're a forefather now. Whatever nickname you come up with me, I'll embrace it and run with it. So give it some thought and we'll do it. I'll have some business cards. I get in trouble with nicknames. But I do worry Listener that And I'm kind of preparing myself Steve Ritchie did Star Wars And it kind of got panned Upon first release It's bare and it's got nothing in it I worry about this being the same way I really do I'm not expecting a lot going on I'm going to tell you that right now Because Led Zeppelin is expensive And I know they've said that the Bill of Materials is not affected by the license Per se but I'm not buying it. I think that you've got Steve Ritchie on it because he can do magical things with just the layout alone. So when you see Star Wars, one of my favorites ever. I worry about that. I worry about assets. Are we going to get songs? Are we going to get the world of Led Zeppelin? Are we actually going to get more focus on recordings and concerts? I'm tempering my expectations on the mechanisms and the assets because of this choice of theme. You can temper your expectations all you want, but no one else is. And that's the problem with these licenses and these themes is people, they are feverish about a license they're passionate about, and Led Zeppelin is up there among the top ones. And so was Star Wars. Honestly, I think no matter what they did with Star Wars, it was going to be panned by a good number of people because you can never meet the expectations of everyone. And I think people just want everything now. It's just the society we live in. You know, you analyze reviews on stocks before you buy them, you know, on Amazon and it is everything now. It's just, everyone wants perfection and there is very little room for creative license or even a guy like Tim Saxton to put his stamp on things if it's not accepted by the masses. And that's a shame because I think that stifles a little bit of creativity because when these guys are sitting in a boardroom, they discuss these things. They talk about, okay, we have to make sure that this appeals to the biggest number of people, but we also have to stay within this bill of materials. What do we do? And you know that calls a lot of things that it wouldn't. Yeah. Yeah. Are you a sight unseen, take my money buyer? It's Led Zeppelin. I don't know that I would ever do that. No, I'm not. I'll have to see it first, but it's going to have to be just an epic turd for me not to buy it probably. I'm a bit surprised as to the response that I've received from customers on this. Sight unseen, pretty much all the list is full. that's surprising. Knowing that the rumor is that they got a good thing. The rumor is a Steve Ritchie. So people have been a bit tepid on his recent releases. I, I assume this one may not have been a Jurassic park release or an Avengers or a turtles release a fever. But right now people, people are, you know, side unseen. They're very excited about it. And I'm just as excited with them because Led Zeppelin, I can easily see one in my lineup, and I can't wait to hear one. You talked about fever. People got a fever, Fowler. And the only cure is the heavy dose of... Sorry. Wasn't there some agreement that you weren't going to sing anymore? Was that... Is that the memo? Because I heard you and Dennis talking about that. Yeah, I think you just broke the rule. No, it doesn't. But that was pretty good. That actually, I'm shocked. You heard it in the back of your head. No, we have an agreement, Dennis Grace and I, that on his episodes now, now that he's gone fortnightly, I don't have to worry about that in between the weeks. So, sorry for future co-hosts. Agreement off there. It's only when he's recording, he's like, I don't really give a shit what you do whenever I'm not there. like that fair enough well i appreciate that you backed away from the mic right i did because that uh i probably would have made some bleeding happen it's not like it but it was not like hitting them like i usually do with this so let's real quick before we dabble into the other news you've missed a lot this year from stern pinball we had stranger things which you be quiet i don't want to hear you talk negatively about my baby stranger things we've already heard it on slap save before your exit damn it we had a topper craze. Have you heard about the hit of the nation? The hit of the world this year is toppers. I don't feel responsible at all for that. But stern toppers are everything to people. Yeah, I love toppers. I have them. Do you have the bumper sticker? I love toppers. Yeah. Shake your toppers? I do. I don't know. I think that the pricing on those are a little out of whack, to say the least. But I get what they're doing, and I understand if there's a demand there, it's simple economics. What about the DLC in them? I don't think we've heard you speak on this. You buying a topper like a Jurassic Park that has a mode in it, that enables a mode because of the purchase of the topper. Avengers is the same way. Yeah, I don't care for that. But I don't think that a game should be unlocked by the additional purchase of an accessory. But that's just me. I'm not the decision maker, it's fair. But I don't care for it. I also don't like when premiums vary greatly in their gameplay from pros. So I'm probably not the person to ask or have comment on this. But I don't know. I just feel like even a pro is, you know, what, $55,000, $6,000 not? No. Yeah, it's close to six now. I don't feel like you should be robbed of a particular mode in the game because you didn't buy a collector's edition or a premium. And I don't – DLC is a dangerous thing. It is dangerous. It has been very controversial in video games because people feel like, hey, I'm paying $60 for this game, and I want everything that's in it as part of that cost. But the reality of manufacturing is I guess they have to try to make money where they can. So I don't know. If it works and you like it, buy it, great. I probably wouldn't be into that so much. You sound a little sizzly about it. Yeah, I don't know. It irritates me a little, but I love Stern, so I look the other way on these things, and I just don't buy them. And I think that's what people should do. If it's not something that interests you or you find it not where a pinball should be, don't buy it. It's not for you. That's your vote. Yeah. Speaking of being not for us, did you see this last year, the video capture card that was teased and fell into a mess, to be honest? Stern was going to make this video capture card for streamers. You plug it into the head and no longer are you trying to phone Alibaba for all kinds of components to set your machine on fire. Just a simple HDMI plug-in and boom, you're pulling direct video capture. Did you hear about that, Matt? I did. That was about the time I was stepping out. Who's the final boot? I think that's, yeah, well, it wasn't what caused it, but I understand that somebody's panties got in a bind about the way it was released or whatever. Yeah, because the panties weren't licensed. Yeah. And there was discussion about DMCA stuff, and that's been a big thing this year as well that you've probably seen or heard a little bit of for those that are streaming, especially on Twitch. DCMA, I think, hopefully I'm saying it right, They're really coming down harshly on using intellectual property or sound clips from games or from background music. So Stern is positioning itself to say that's why they're delaying or even maybe terminating the idea of a video capture card for the masses. You would think that they would be able to get in there and just disable music, you know, to keep it from being an issue. And really, if you think about it, streaming is a great way to spread pinball. And Twitch streaming is huge. And people will sit around and watch like a video game or a pinball even all the time to see if they want to buy it. And what better way to advertise your product by having people that are passionate about it get it in front of a camera? And I would think they would get around that, and it would be something that would be really popular. And that's one of the things that I'm most proud since it's relevant to you since you're a co-founder of TPN is the TPN team of streamers. I never imagined, Jason, that I'll have to show you next time I'm with you, this camaraderie that's been built in our Discord and everyone helping another out. Man, the TPN stream team, so incredibly proud of those individuals. And this last year, because of the COVID stuff, you're right. A lot of people are streaming. And there are a lot of people that you're seeing. Before, I would say before 2020, you've seen a couple top dogs, right? A couple top channels. And then everybody else is kind of feeling their way out there having fun. No. The playing field has been evened significantly. You've got I.E. Pinball and Carl D'Python Anghelo doing unbelievably tremendous things. Do you have the technological surge that George at Don't Panic Flip or Manu at Mystery Pinball Theater 3000 is bringing? You've got Fliptronic. There are so many people now that have entered into this realm, and they're saying, okay, I know what the top dogs were doing, but I'm going to make it better. And that's one of the things I'm most proud about in the pinball industry and the community and media providers is just where they have taken streaming. So it does worry me. I get scared a little bit because they are on a just a killer pace right now doing some excellent work for the industry. So we'll have to see what happens. But that one, that one I'm really proud of. But it scares me all at the same time. Yeah. I know the effort that you put in when we started TPN about finding people that you thought did a good job in streaming. And the evolution of that, you knew it was coming. And I'm sure it's only gotten better. It's so good. Speaking of getting better, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is really getting better in my heart. It's one of my go-to games right now. But did you hear about that release? Have you played that game? Have you looked at it? What are your thoughts about Ninja Turtles by Stern? I'll be honest. I have not played it. I've watched it on stream. It looks like fun. It's a good game. I don't know much about it. Yep. I respect your light, and I know it's got to be good, but I haven't played it. Okay. That one is a keeper right now for me. Then we get into Avengers, and you've ordered one. I did. Care to tell the audience what model you ordered? It is a premium. And Keith Elwin, I trust. It's hard to go wrong with Elwin, I think. I've liked all of his games. I've owned the first two. I got rid of Iron Maiden, unfortunately. It had to sort of go because of the lack of room, But it's one of the few that I, yeah, one of the few that I regret letting go. I wouldn't mind getting an Iron Maiden back. That's a great game. You're just going to love Avengers. I just know you. You're going to love Avengers. Big year for Stern Pinball. Probably one of their most profitable, successful years, even during a time of global pandemic. They're hitting on all cylinders over there in Elk Grove Village. The pandemic was probably, other than the requirement of shutting down for a while, Now, making people stay in their homes and appreciate things like pinball and things they can do with their family in the long term is probably a good thing. Yeah. And we know that homeowners are buying pinball machines at a higher pace right now. God bless the operators that have had to shut down and are going back and forth in this. But you've seen a bit of a surge in 2020 for home sales of pinball machines, which is exciting. exciting and I think will sustain this industry throughout the shit that was 2020. But hopefully all get back out there, get to the shows, get to the locations, get a vaccine, and we'll all be good. But the home sales is kind of where it at and Stern just slayed this year Ooh them titles and license Ooh But if we flip the coin and we look on the other side we have Deep Root Pinball Quite different than Stern Pinball as it sits right now in 2020. Now, when you exited, Deep Root was gearing up for a TPF reveal. We didn't get one in TPF because, of course, TPF was canceled. They had a Houston showing of Raza that was a bit weird. And then we had the Deep Six, Deep Six Nine. I don't know why it had a Star Trek reference. We went through all of that. Have you been following any of the Deep Root saga? Yeah, I have a little bit. I expected by now they would, especially with Roberts, you know, the way he was communicating early on, I expected there to be a few more machines out now from them than none. And I think, I don't know, best laid plans, I guess, is all I can say, because it has not worked out like I think they wanted it to. I hope that this extra time, extra maybe hassle of COVID only makes the final product better. but I think right now we have a situation where you've got a company that's really barking a lot of things but doesn't have a lot to show for it right now, and that doesn't bode well for them. They feel like they're bleeding to me. Yeah. I don't know any particulars about the books at Deep Root, but I can't imagine being an investor who threw money at this idea and is sitting here now in the middle of December 2020 and doesn't have a whole lot to show for it and God knows any money coming in for games that are sold. I don't know. That's just me. This last week, Deep Root Pinball did open up their shop, and they started selling Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland. They set a window, too, which some found as odd, the end of December, opening the order banks until the end of December, shutting it down, and moving on to the next game. They have all kinds of similar ways of doing business in pinball and different ways. If you go check out their website at deeperpinball.com, you can check out the details. I don't know how well these are selling. I know that we got confirmation from, oh, who was it? I know that Chris Chandler, our correspondent, was talking about it. But as of two days after launch, only 25 orders of Raza. That hurts. I don't care what anybody says 3, 4, 5 years later you get 25 orders in the first 2 days that's a singer yeah I think a lot of that has to do with just people have this skeptical idea of what Deep Root represents right now because of what's been said versus what's been delivered I hope innovation is always welcome in pinball but innovation doesn't always equal sales success I think people are just they're over it. They're over Raza. We've satiated ourselves way too much with Raza. We want to see what else. I mean, they tout these 20 titles. We want to see them. We want to hear them. We want to play them. So Raza just feels like old news I think to a lot of people. And it sure as hell doesn't help, Jason, whenever you've got Raza. Boom, here you go. And three, four days later Led Zeppelin just comes right at your front door and Rumblings of a Cactus Canyon release soon. And hey, by the way, I know some of you loved Alien, but we figured out how to make them now. We're going to be releasing that soon by the pinball. It's a saturated Q4 and an original theme that burns people, in my opinion, doesn't look to shoot the greatest. I think that's where, but maybe they don't need Raza sales. Maybe they don't. Maybe they just, and I've said it, limit the damn thing to 100 and move on. Move on. Wash your hands of this. It was a good trial run. On to the next one. What are your thoughts? I am guilty of giving people the benefit of the doubt maybe more than I should. But I am rooting, no. Are you deep rooting? I'm not intended for deep rooting. I really am. I think the more the merrier in this hobby and this business because whenever a company puts out, say, an LCD screen like Jersey Jack did back in the day, their willingness to innovate and their willingness to try something new started the whole LCD explosion, where even Stern took it on themselves to start it too. So I like it. I hope they do well. I hope they do well long term. And I hope that they can get their shit together and get something out the door, because they have a ton of talent down there, and they have the right people. it's just a matter of pinball being hard. Yeah, they definitely changed their tune on that. And we had correspondent Chris Chandler for the pinball show that was down there with the other VIP members. They were released this last week from their signed NDA. Chandler goes on to say, and you heard it in the correspondence, so we won't get too deep into it, and you can hear it on the midweek show coming up this week, I believe, with Craig Bobby. He didn't see any signs of production when they visited that facility. It's been, what, a couple months ago? No signs of production. He did say, look, it doesn't mean it wasn't happening, but they took us into the room where they said that it was going to happen, and he was worried. Yeah, I think a lot of us are used to Stern's model where they sell so many machines. You can go into Stern at any one time, and you can see that line bustling like Model T Fords, whereas this is a smaller company that's just starting up and like you said they have 25 orders in two days what would they have been building nothing there's nothing to build because there's no product to build quite yet but maybe that's changed now maybe it's maybe it's humming along so deep root pinball was covered at length here in the last week there was a lot of interviews with deep root pinball individuals such as robert Sébastien Muller storyteller quinn bowden they were all on the pinball profile with Jeff Teolis. I would highly recommend that piece. Go check that out because you guys know I'm mixed on the whole Raza thing and I'm a J-pop design aficionado fan but this one had me, eh. But Quinn single-handedly, Valor, made me feel like, oh shit. This game does have a great story. It's got options. It's got paths. I like the object. He made me want to play and buy Raza so I think it's a good showing for for them over on Pinball Profile. Bravo. And to note, Robert Mueller had an in-depth interview on the Pinball News, Pinball Magazine, Pinball Podcast, so go listen to that as well. I did not listen to that, so I don't have much notes. Sorry, guys. Audio was a little off. They had some issues over there. So it was a long episode, and I didn't get to it. So go listen to that. Steven Bowden, last point we'll make here. Steven Bowden was talking on Pinball Profile about the possibility for alternative rule sets to the same titled Deep Root games. And a lot of people are like, oh, DLC, you're going to make me pay for an extra mode. But he was like, no, no, just picture this. Picture you loving a game like Arasa, but then being able to upload and change in between extremely dynamically different rule sets for that same game. And it intrigued me. I liked the idea of that. He said, you know, maybe this is more complicated, competition-based rule set. And then for those who are chasing the story, you've got more moments. This is a completely different game, but it's still the same title. That's really smart. It is. And you know Steve's attention to detail will really make that fly well, I think, if it happens. Now, I wonder myself, is the only reason that's been able to happen is because of the length of time of development? if they're churning machines out like stern are they going to be able to do that because i don't see how there would be time to devote to two separate quality rules i think that uh what and i could be wrong but he was alluding to the pin bar being a big help in all of this additional all of these additional features because it's it's right there it's kind of your gateway into internet connectivity, setups, options. I mean, Helen Raza, you're using your tickets that you've earned throughout the Adventureland and buying different modes and different items. So it feels like almost RPG video game right there at your fingertips in the pin bar. And that's what he was kind of talking about, changing between profiles or rule sets, all at the touch of your fingertips on the pin bar. That would be cool. I still don't know enough about this game. I wanted to let people know they've been messaging me. Flip N Out Pinball is not currently a dealer for Deep Root Machines. I don't know if they even went the dealer route. It was more a commission-based route here. So we're going to do the wait-and-see approach because our customers are the most important thing to us. And the last thing I want to do is instill trust in a company that it's not that I distrust Deep Root. I just need more information. I need to see games rolling out. Nicole and I are really, really firm on we need to know what we're signing our customers up to. So I'm hoping that Deep Root comes out with our next game. It makes sense. And the Deep Root family is open to flipping out distribution if it works out that way. But right now we are not dealing Deep Root games. But we are dealing Jersey Jack pinball games. And it has been said that the CE's The collector's edition of that game They will be on the line soon And I'm with everybody else Where are games? Come on Make them faster But you're probably not going to see any collector's editions Until after the holidays I hate to burst your eggnog bubble over there But You don't see it happening Do you like the eggnog? I have, believe it or not I have never Really? Really? Never. I don't like the idea of it. I took you for the person that was bonging the nog. I'm a little funny when it comes to, like, cream milk-based drinks. Like, I can't. Even milk I struggle with sometimes, and I refuse to drink a glass of milk that someone else has taken a drink out of. I will even move the glass to where I don't take a drink from this same place. I don't know. It's weird. I know it's weird. I just can't do it. I, it's the whole cream, like milk, eggs thing. Is it the protein? Yeah, it's like, it's the mouthfeel that throws me. It just, I don't like things to feel like I got to like chew them and sort of like gulp them down. I don't know. Oh, wow. So you're not a whole milk kind of fan, huh? Yeah, a little insider. Oh, hell no. That's like drinking Motorola. That's right, baby. No. Coach's stomach. I think 2% is about as rich as I can get. Good. I'm a 2% kind of guy, too. Blue cap. Eh, that's how I am. Sometimes my wife forces the pink on me. The skim? Like water. Yeah, it's like water. Oh, people like their skim milk. I am not a fan. Or the fucking almond milk. What is that? Yeah, I tried that once. That'll be... Juice and an almond? What is that? I don't trust... We've got all kinds of milk now. I don't trust any milk that you can put in a cabinet, thank you. That's a good point. None of that shit. Give me milk, damn it. I don't want any of this coconut shit. No. Give me the tea. I don't even care. You're sort of known for being a meat and potatoes guy when it comes to food and drink. Oh, yeah. Straight from the teat, man. That's, you know. Make some cheese. I like cheese. You like cheese? I do, too. I do. And it still bothers me that you don't like nuts. I'll never forget on your podcast you said it was like it was like trying to eat dirty oil or something like that and I think nuts are like one of the best things in the world I can't believe you don't like nuts I think they're overrated just an oily cashew give me a salted peanut and a beer I'm good but don't like this shit that Dennis eats the baklava it's like Hey I'm going to be a tasty pie But oops I just put nuts in here Like that's all it is You think you're getting something It's just honey nuts You're going to eat a cereal Baklava That's why they fucking named it Baklava It makes sense to me I've had it I'm not real familiar with it That's why I slaughtered the pronunciation It's good CEs are not yet on the line Of GNR They did another little bitty run of LEs. Do they know how important those are to get out? There's a slew of back order on those. So it looks like CEs. Yeah, one of them. Yeah, that's right. CEs are going to be sounding to me like into December through probably mid-February now, if I had to take a guess because we haven't been told. I was told mid-December to end of January for the CEs, but they've bumped those a little bit because they've added a sprinkle of some LEs in there for the holidays. It's a mess. I don't know. People don't know what to say as I email everybody responding in that manner. I'm just not sure. I'm doing the guessing game here. I'm on the fucking price is right over here. I'm hoping not to go over, but, you know, give me a dollar. I'll go a dollar. A dollar over here. Give me just a dollar. I'll go $1, see if I can win. I'm guessing, at least, you're going to see them back on the line in February. It feels like a long time, but it'll be here before you know it. But then again, I don't know what the allotment is in February. I just don't know. I give up. I quit. I would never quit you, listener, follower, customer. I love you guys. Just give me my game. It's that. It's not for banners. It's going to be a goddamn game. If you want something from JVP right now, you can get a t-shirt. Their merch store is open. We've got t-shirts. We've got translights. We've got, oh, I do like the banners. Those are going to be ready in a couple weeks. But banners, they're selling now. Big, tall, girthy banners, too. That ain't your typical pinball banner. What do they say? What kind of banners? Oh, look at you. Eh? I'm serious. I'm curious. So they are offering two banners for Guns N' Roses. One of them features more of that illustration on the standard where you have those zombie yeti-like cartoon characters. The other one features more of the Dwayne Henry stuff with the skeletons and the L-E-C-E type of feel to it. Okay. I think they're priced at $149 plus shipping. No chubby axle? No chubby axle. They spared us from that, thankfully. Tim's a smart marketer. So, be on the lookout for that. I think we're selling banners. If anybody's interested in flipping out pinball, contact me. We'll get you in the line for one of those banners. All kinds of swag over there. Check it out. Oh, man. I can't wait until you, because you've not even played Guns N' Roses, right? No. There I am. Yeah, I'm saying I won't do a sight unseen, but I saw it. I watched the streams and Ken's incredibly done videos. Oh, man. But, yeah, that was enough for me to see it to be in. Easily one of the best reveals you've ever seen in pinball? Easily, yeah. I concur. I'm a little biased because I was part of that. But, you know, let's talk about spooky pinball because we have not heard a lot about spooky pinball since you left, Valor. Not a lot's been going on, really. I mean, you were around when they announced and revealed Rick and Morty. They're still building those, so not a lot going on. But this last week they did, as you heard from Dr. Joan, a big code update for Rick and Morty, and changes included two all-new adventures and not just any two half-assed adventures, people. We're talking a wizard mode that is Rick Potion number nine. For those fans of the show, you know what I'm talking about. They are one of the greatest episodes, as well as easily my favorite part and episode of the universe that is Rick and Morty. Scary Terry is now an adventure. You can run, but you can't hide, bitch. Oh, bitch. Don't even trip about your pants, dog. Here's a pair on us, fool. Oh, bitch. I don't know what to say. Like, I love Scary Terry. I didn't think they were going to ever get him in here, but he is my man. He's probably my favorite animated character in adult animation. But he's in there. Hell, there's four new dimensions. There's new call-outs from season four. They weren't lying, people, when they said that they're going to dabble into future seasons over and over again. So they're making that true here. Other tweaks, modifications. This is a big code update and very much welcomed because as they continue to try to make these things, you're starting to see people get a little tired of the wait. Understandably so. A little tired. We're seeing more of the orders go up. Well, we're seeing them on the secondary market now. That big $10,000, $11,000 sales point that they were going for secondary is starting to wither a little bit. Have you played Spooky's Rick and Morty? Have you seen it? What are your thoughts about it? Yeah, Kanan got one. Oh, that's right. It is a blast. Yeah, I love it. We play it every chance we get. I mean, COVID's been a little bit of a speed bump for that. But Rick and Morty, well, Scott, the common thread you get with Scott is these machines are his babies. and he continues to pour effort and time into the development of the code to where when you buy a machine from Spooky, or especially Scott's, you know that that is going to continuously get more polish as time goes on. It's going to get more modes. And I'm not just talking about clearing out bugs. I'm talking about co-op. You know, just look at anything he's done. Yeah, it's incredible. So you're a fan of that game? I am. I will. So I played that on location at Louisville. Okay. Oh, that was at the show, right? Yeah, it was. And it's always tough in a loud environment to get the best from a machine. And that is one downside to the shows is I feel like if you make your decision to buy based on that, sometimes you're going to miss the mark. And when Matt got his machine and we were able to go over and spend some time on it and actually hear the sound, which that is a huge part of that game, it totally opened up for me. Yeah, I think it's a blast. You get it. It's a tough shooter. Yeah, that loop on that last side, you can hit it. Matt hits it all the time. I don't because I suck. But he, yeah, it was not a problem for him. It's a blast. I don't think it's a stretch to say, and I'm friends with Scott, but I think he would agree. It's not a stretch to say the design and layout is not winning any awards. However, what you said, Fowler, was so true, it pulls you in with everything else. The code, the assets, the sounds, the lights, just the integration. Easily one of my favorites. Will not leave my collection. But people are very mixed on that game. And I was wondering, because I haven't spoken with you about your experience on that once you dove in a little bit. I forgot Kanan had one. Now, you were early on kind of weighing your options at getting in on one. I remember. I did, yeah. And I actually decided to go the other way, and I sort of regret it. But that was at the time of the call, and it was like, I'm looking at getting rid of machines. I really want to add one that I'm not 1,000% certain on because I hadn't played it at the time. But theme has always weighed very heavily for me, and maybe too much in some people's opinions. I will look the other way on a game that maybe doesn't shoot perfectly, and I think Habit is one of the best examples of that ever. Is Habit the best shooting game that's ever been made? Besides Orbitz? No, I'm with you. Yeah, far from it. But as far as theme goes, in my opinion, there is no better game. There just isn't. A whole lot of immersion. Rick and Morty is up there, too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, speaking of, how the hell's Kanan? He is doing fantastic. Matt and I are tight. See? People love hearing that. I forgot to ask. So, you guys are still brothers as you were on the podcast. Matt is sincerely one of the kindest-hearted, just human beings I've ever met. He really is. I can attest to that as well. Yeah, he just is. He's a sweetheart. I'm thankful to call him a friend, and, yes, we still hang out. That's kind of dipped a little bit because of COVID and just all that stuff that comes along with it. But, yeah, we still stay in contact, and we're still hanging out every opportunity we can. Man, I can't wait next time I see him, me and him, take a fight. It's on. It's true. It's going to happen. He gives me a hard time, but all I want to do is love him. Shout out to Kanan. We love you, buddy. He doesn't listen. Is he even in pinball really anymore, or is he crispy too? Is he done? I mean, he's got his games. He plays kind of like me, but, yeah, he's taking a step back, and I don't think he's listening to podcasts as much as he does. Let's talk about something really big, in my opinion. This last week we've seen Project Pinball placing some machines. There was a big delay there. There was a big delay in placing some machines, in my opinion, or my perception, because of maybe all the COVID stuff. But in the St. Louis area, Jason Fowler's, those are his stomping grounds people, two pinball machines were placed in two children's hospitals. And that was courtesy of the co-host Jason Fowler and the Slap Save Pinball Podcast. Before we get into it, from the rest of the pinball community and the industry, I want to say to you, Jason, And I am super proud of you. We are very proud of you. What you were able to do with the promotion of Devil With a Cause, with Slap Save, Pinball Podcast, and the streaming. You raised so much money. So much money that it's not one but two pinball machines that were placed into children's hospitals for them to get their mind off of illness and negativity. At the end of the day, I don't care what anyone does in pinball. you have done more than 99% just with just with your time and energy and love for these efforts so from the bottom of everybody's heart Jason thank you so freaking much man thank you thank you thanks I appreciate that I well let's get it straight here the biggest part of that was the community that is the bottom line I was just simply sort of led and guided people in the right direction and project pinball. I couldn't have done that without them. They allowed me to sort of sit back and concentrate on raising the money and they did all the dirty work. And believe you me, there is a ton of bureaucracy, red tape and hoops that need to be jumped through for this to happen. It is not as simple as buying a machine and sending it to a hospital. And I know that people were getting a little impatient with that process, but I was keeping up on it. I knew how much work went into it, and I'm glad it got done, and I'm glad to be part of it. I'm proud to be part of it, and it was my single, if not my greatest achievement in pinball, is one of the things I'm proudest of that I've done in my life, honestly. And to see those kids play, we were fortunate. There was one at Cardinal Glen and one at Mercy Children's. Mercy Children's had very lax restrictions. We got checked in with temperature. We had to wear masks the whole time. We were only allowed a three. We originally, I wanted to have Matt there. I wanted to have my mom there because we were dedicating it to my dad that passed away three years ago. But they were like, nope, it's basically anybody that is essential to getting the machine in. So fortunately, I was able to go, and I did help. I didn't know that. That's great. Good. Yeah, so they want to limit the exposure to the kids, obviously, and that's completely understandable. We got the machine in, and there was three particular kids that they knew were sort of lower risk, and they came in with us, and we got to play some games with them and see their faces light up and be the first ones that played it. It was incredible. It really was. And Cardinal Glennon, unfortunately, had a lot tougher restrictions to get in, so we didn't get to play with any of the kids. But it was still an outstanding experience. Oh, man. That feels good. That's got to feel good. It's got to feel good. It still does. I will never come down from that high, trust me. And I love that you were able to dedicate these machines in the name of your father. Yeah, I hate to be a dead horse. I think I've talked about it a lot. Please talk about it again. Yeah, so my dad was my best friend. I was in business with him. He started our business back in 1973, and I joined in 1997, and I worked with him up until he got sick enough to where he couldn't come in anymore. But you're talking about 45, 50 hours a week with an individual that just happens to be your dad. And when you do that, you get really close to them. And don't get me wrong, we had our disagreements. And my dad was just like I am, stubborn at times in his way or the highway. But we managed to mesh really well with the business, and it flourished because of him. And I wanted to dedicate this to him. And when I talked to Daniel at Project Pinball, I said, I'll raise this money for this single machine. And the only thing I ask in return is for a plaque. And they were happy to do that. In fact, when we got two machines, because we raised so much more than we thought we would, he had two plaques made up, one for each machine. Wow. I know I've heard just being a great friend of yours over the last couple of years, I've heard the awesome stories about your late father. and there's even been like one of the greatest compliments I've ever received from you, Jason. I don't know. I've never told you this, but you said in a lot of ways, I am ambitious and very common sense and very fair person similar to your father. And, you know, in a roundabout way, you told me that. And it brought tears to my eyes because I know how important that man is to you and is probably one of the greatest compliments I've ever received in my life. So thank you for that. But, yeah, man, when you told me, you've told me that a couple of times regarding your dad. I'm like, oh, my gosh. I compare everyone to him. Yeah, because you find those things that you, you know, and maybe cliche, but you find your father in the things that you appreciate and love in the world. It's almost as if he's there saying, hey, here I am again. I'm not going anywhere. Right, right. And, Jason, can you tell us, I know that on these placards there was a quote, and I think would that quote come from your father? Could you share a little bit about that? It was a quote that I felt sort of best encompassed my dad and his personality and his way of life. It just simply said, in memory of Kirby Fowler, keep your face always toward the sunshine and shadows will fall behind you. And he looked at life that way. He was always trying to find the upside of things, the glass half full mentality that I've tried to maintain. And, yeah, everything I do every day is just living up to what I feel he would want. So, yeah. I appreciate you sharing that. And I can tell you right now that we're not even halfway through your book yet, and there's no way that he is not unbelievably proud of the accomplishments and the man you've become. And, my friend, you have followed that statement, pointing towards the sunshine and the happiness and turning away from the shadows. You've exercised that last year as you stepped away from some of the mess that you were facing in Pimble, and that's why the community and myself as well as all of our buddies that you know so well, we fully support you in that because you are living to that creed every day. It's nicely done. Thanks. I appreciate that. I try to surround myself with those types of people and it's served me well. All right. To wrap up our pinball, New Chicago Gaming Company, you've not missed anything there, Fowler. There's still nothing. We don't know what they're doing over there. Quality, not quantity with them, I guess. That's how I like to look at it. It's not the size of the boat. I think that might actually be relevant here. Okay. I think it is. Nicely done Zach The Pinball Brothers they were talking about building an alien again Sneak peeks teasers here and there When you left there was alien that was on the back burner It's still on the back burner coming to the forefront. I hope they don't overcook it. We'll see what happens. I know that Franchi and Line over at Super Awesome Pinball Show should be interviewing. I think they're teasing something about the Pinball Brothers and aliens. So that is coming very soon. So check that out. All right, pal, you may not have been listening to the podcast. Who can blame you? You've got a lot going on. But I know when you lay your head down on that sweet, silky pillow. Did you get the Marc Silk sheets yet? It's all the wraith. No, no, that kind of creeps me out a little bit. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I'm in a porno or something. Yeah, no. They don't have to be red Marc Silk. But it stays cool, doesn't break your hair. Better for air flowage. I'm a meager man. I just go for cotton. Sounds like I'm reporting on a trend with these training up Marc Silk pillowcases here. But as you lay your head down at night and you're getting ready to fall into a slumber, sugar plum berries dance on your pinball machines in your mind. I just want you to be awoken with a high heart rate and a pinball market trends. You just roasted your vocal cords. Woo! Did you hear that stubble in there, baby? Oh, it's like the tingle I get when I see John Stamos back in the full house years. Woo-hoo! Man, it just rolls right off the tongue, doesn't it? Makes me feel tingly. And we're here again, ladies and gentlemen, for your favorite pinball segment of all of pinball pos... of... Sorry. So excited. In all of pinball podcasting. Oh, did you miss Market Trends? I'm not going to lie. I kind of thought this would have died off because I knew Dennis was adamantly against it for a while. He sure was. I see that you're persistent. I'll give you that. I mean, gold is gold. He can change its currency if he wants to, but it's still gold. That's all there is to it. You want to hear about some gold this week? Trading out this week is Circus Voltaire. Why in the hell would that trend up? Numbers don't lie. I'm just reporting the facts here, people. I do my research, and Circus Voltaire has taken a marked increase over the last three to six months on the secondary market. Circus Voltaire is one of those games that it's tiptoeing closer to that of a totem, Tales of the Raven Knights, on the secondary market. Many people think if they were to go remake some of these, Chicago Gaming Company going to remake some of these old Bally Williams, Circus Voltaire would probably be low on the John Papadiuk list. You may see a Theater of Magic or a Tales of the Arabian Nights a little bit sooner than Circus Voltaire. And I think subconsciously it's affecting the marketplace, especially the secondary marketplace, because you can get a Circus Voltaire now, a beater, beater, beater, pumpkin eater. This son of a bitch is still going to cost you $7,000, if not more. That's a beater. I don't even know if your neon's working. Is it dingy? Is your neon dingy? My neon is crystal clear. Is it? It's clean as it was. It's a refurb, actually. I don't have a circus vault here, but if I did, it would be cool. Do you own Neon? I do. Yeah, I've got some pinball games that are the logos of some companies that I got. Probably places I shouldn't have because they're not licensed off of the e-commerce. I think people have seen those Neons on the critically heralded series Pinball Cribs, where you were episode two. Yeah, I was. That was one of my finer achievements back then. And then the show was canceled. I know. I was the one that brought it down. It was just a flaming pile. You saved it, man. We were really tumbling me and Haper there. Woo! Yeah, I know. Some people didn't like his style for some reason. My direction. Chris is Chris. That's right. Man, training up this week at Circus Voltaire. Get you a nice one, people, and it's going to cost you a couple mortgage payments. $8,000 to $9,000 just for a nice, decent one nowadays. I saw one recently sell. I believe that was fully restored for upwards of, I think it was $13,000. That is bat guano crazy. Holy hello. That's a lot of money. Also trending up this week, shout out and courtesy of Nick Baldrige, trending up electromechanicals. That's right, EMs. You don't hear it much here on the pinball market trends. But when in Rome, just report what you see, the patterns. Just report the patterns. Nick Baldrige, he had a thread on Pimpside as of late talking about the recent price increases on the secondary market of all EMs. If you have a working EM now, there's like a level of probably $800 to $1,000 that they go for now. Gone are the days that you can just pick up one willy-nilly for $200 to $500 that's working that somebody has in their collection. No. The only way you're picking up an EM for $100 to $400 is, A, it's just wretched and it's broken. It looks like Fowler's girlfriend in college. Or, B, it is literally grandpappy that doesn't know a damn thing about the wood rail pinball machines. All I know is when it turns on, the reels used to go back and forth. It doesn't do much of that anymore. Hopefully, it's just a slam-tilt issue and you can say, EM, grandpa, bye, bye, bye. No, I wouldn't condone that. But pick it up if you can. EMs are on the rise because, hey, they're still pinball. Nobody wants to spend $3,000 on a Data East or a Sega anymore. EMs are the budget friend. And I like Nick Balder. Training up is his profile on Pinside. He goes by Nico Volta. That is a sexy name. Nico Volta. Would you date a Nico Volta? I know I would. I guarantee you Nico Volta has hair on their chest I mean come on it's just the name Nico Volta he's a fucking superhero Nick Baldrige damn Nico Volta is a fucking superhero he's like he's coming in with his Rico Suave hairy chest and he's like my battery will not leak out over you I picture a lot of gel in the hair of a Nico Volta absolutely Nico Volta has cold black hair. Just waves. And an accent. And he goes all dark. Also turning up this week is a guilty pleasure. It was my pleasure this last week of tuning in to Ray Day Pinball. Raymond Davidson, you know, the number one pinball player in the world over at CPN. He was streaming Super Nintendo? And he's turning up because I know you're kind of an old school gamer, right, Fallon? Old school, new school. Hey, you don't discriminate. The new, the old. Bring it. Extra bonus brownie points if it's hockey-based. But Ray Day streamed one of my favorite, because the SNES is my favorite platform, my favorite console of all time. It just is. And I think it's the correct answer. But he was streaming a game so near and dear to me that when I tuned in and just heard the music, I legit fucking laid on my floor like I did when I was 8, 10 years old. I wanted to have the controller in my hand watching Ray Day play through Donkey Kong Country 2. Oh! Man. I remember it finally. Geez, with Diddy Kong doing the cart whiz. And he's got the Dixie Kong with the spinning hair. Oh, the little clues of a single banana. What's that do? Maybe I'll take the rhino and charge there. Oh, red balloons galore. In this streaming event that Ray Day put on, he was just all casual. Just streaming some SNES and, man, took me back. It took me back. I was just watching his every move. Oh, don't. Watch out for the starfish, Ray Day. The starfish. Inside joke for Ray Day. I got you, baby. The starfish was killing him. all of that fun that was Donkey Kong and all those rare titles. Remember the rare Donkey Kong, Donkey Kong 2, you had Banjo and Kazooie, you had Conkers. That was 64. Super Mario. Oh, yeah. There was Navajo Toads. It took me back, and I thought, you know what? If I get just severely burned in pinball and I run away crying, I think I've got a place in the NES land. of ritual gaming. I hope he continues to do that. And tis the season, bitches. You know that I'm training so much up in the month of December, and we're going to give you one more. Training up this week is Cyber Glitch 2077. You see what I did there, Fowler? Cyberpunk 2077. That's what everybody's talking about. All of my pinball friends have turned their ugly faces to pinball in the name of cyberpunk. What you doing today, man? Oh, fuck. Hey, Dennis, where are you at? Sorry I can't respond because I'm fucking playing Cyberpunk. God, I'm so sick of this shit. But it is turning up. Everybody's playing it. They're turning their cold ass shoulders to a fake video game. Man. Where are the physical hands? I was super excited about it. But they actually patched the penises coming out of the penises. So I'm out now. Not playing anymore. You don't need patched PR, huh? PR, yeah, correct. Look at this cat. Totally patched that one here. That's a patch. I know a patched cock when I see it, fella. Some good ragdoll physics. Look at that. You can even helicopter. This cock moves a little bit. Is that ray tracing? Is that what that is? Fuck, I'm in. I said cyber glitch because it is also turning down a little bit. Maybe this is a holding study, but I really had it turning up. But man, you watch the social media of some of our pinball friends right now, they are just lighting into the glitches and the messes that Cyberpunk 2077 is. I made a vow to myself starting about a month ago, Fowler, that if it doesn't pertain to pinball, and I'm still entertained and want to hear about it, then damn it, I'm going to do me. And that's why I'm talking about video games right now. Yes. So a big glitchy there All the little Fucking snobby PC people out there You running on your next gen console Cause it's not as cool as my My PC Big old three foot spaceship that's overheating Under your desk Now consoles are still better But granted Okay you can add all kinds of fucking Clark Griswold plugs on it and shit For more memory and speed but Still not as cool as the spaceship that is The PS5 I did, you know what's sad, I did a little V up in the air to insinuate its shape like a vagina, a vagina signal in the air V did you find one? I did on the black market did you pay more than retail for it? oh my god, I'm sorry, I did oh you boob I nearly doubled but close oh you are so the next time I see you I'm firmly open hand slapping. I deserve it. And you know the sad part is, I felt intimidated because I thought I was going to get jumped. I thought it was coming. I know your history with that. You're part of the problem. You can't drive those things up. Those scalpers, they live to satiate people like you. Just don't buy it. I say, you know, training up is PS5 if the market has gone up on it and supply is down. You know, it's just numbers don't lie. I had to pay Or you can wait three months when they actually have some games out. Oh, that's cute. You said me wait? Let's wait for something that we want to enjoy. Hmm. Oh, here comes a semi. Kaboom, I'm dead. I got nothing. No. I'm just jealous. I got it. I don't blame you. Yeah, extra $400. I'll just stop buying fucking toppers for a month. I don't know. Yeah, so don't be a PC snob out there. we know you've got a cool machine that you've rigged up and it's got the LED nice, nicely done. But for many of us, the Xbox Series X and the PlayStation 5 are good enough. But fix your game. Put the penises back. We need the penis. Turning down all for this week is Stern Pinball Star Wars. I just opened one. The only market change right now. Well, that's bullshit. I just lost money by turning this son of a bitch down. Star Wars, the original. But the original, with the movie on the side of the cabinets in the back of the house, you know what I'm referring to, fellas? The pros have now fallen to about the mid-fours. That is low for a modern stern pro. And the premiums, mid-sixes. Oh, ouch. Man, ouch. The comics are holding a little bit better, but people just like stranger things. I was going to say people just don't give it a chance. People just suck and they're wrong. That's right, listener. If you think Stranger Things is a bad game, we can't be friends. We can be friends, Valor. I know you hate that game. Stern Star Wars Premium LE and Stern Stranger Things Premium LE may be two of the greatest releases from Stern in their entire existence. There, I said it. I feel good about it. I stand behind it. It feels warm over here. It's probably cold over there with no 11. And what was that? Have you been watching The Mandalorian? Oh, every week on Friday. I love it. God, that freaking show. It's such a good show. It's like right in my wheelhouse because I love those old Westerns. Spaghetti Westerns. It's basically just a sci-fi Western. It is. That's all it is. It's so well done. The different directors. Are you watching the behind-the-scenes features too? That's what I'm watching. Watch all of them. I've seen them all. That's good. Why don't we have in production yet a Mandalorian pinball machine? If I had to guess I bet you'd see something eventually I'm just, that's totally me Just making stuff up I don't know, you know people Oh look, he's a little mom here Ladies and gentlemen Uh oh No, no, I don't know anything I know Stern and they go where the hot titles And themes are If I was somebody at Stern I would be scratching, clawing, digging Especially with the partnership you already have With Lucas and with Disney They've done Star Wars. They're there. Can you imagine a Grogu on the play field? Wow. Man, you're one of the new age Mandalorian fans where you actually call Baby Yoda by his name. Okay. Let's see what the line is. I follow the show. Grogu. That's correct terminology. I'm good with Grogu. And, yeah, you can see him holding the gear shifter, which is actually a pinball. Let's not all joke ourselves. Holding the pinball, yeah, in the middle of the game or something. All right. A little Easter egg, huh? Absolutely. Maybe they can have the bowls, the pinballs in the game, have a laser-etched blue ring around them or something. I don't think that's going to fall within the bill of materials that our friends start. And then people will be like, have you seen what it does to my clear coat? It's got a harsh edge. Holding steady this week is Rick and Morty by Spooky Pinball. I had all sorts of purposes of training this bitch down this week because it is. numbers are falling on this game, but then they totally redeemed themselves. Ha ha! You ready to go to Aspen? Oh yeah. Dumb, dumb, right? That's pretty good. No, they redeemed themselves with this code update. Thank God for Scary Terry. He came in and saved the day here. So the coders and developers over at Spooky Pinball, I love you guys. You're making one of my favorite machines even better. And you just saved yourself a lot of heartache for trending down because that's where you were going. Saved it. You're holding steady now. Hold steady. Hold steady. If you were on Titanic, Jason Fowler, which type of crew member would you be? Would you be one of the violinists playing until you're going down? Would you be Billy Zane, son of a bitch, little rat trying to sneak in with all of the women and children? Would you be Leo in Draw Me Naked? Who would you be? I'd probably throw a mop head Over my head And throw some pumps on Size 13 pumps I'd be running for that Who's the Who's the 6 foot 3 woman That's desperately scratching and clawing Screaming out Hold the four bro There's enough room in there for me I'm not a good swimmer I would not be good to be this show. I could see you as kind of I'm trying to picture who I am. I could I could see you as a Leo actually. You got a big heart there. Big heart. No? I'm first one off that. Okay. Who am I kidding? I wouldn't even have got on a goddamn boat. I can see myself I would like to see myself I'm not Billy Zane listeners. Assholes. God, no. I can see Kaneda as Billy Zane actually. Yeah. You hear that Kaneda? You're Billy Zane in that one Shots fired I just see myself as the captain That's like, yeah, I should have probably bailed a long time ago But I'm going to have to go down with this ship I made my bed Now time to go down with the ship A short period of silence for all those lost in the tragic Titanic sinking Too soon That old lady turned me on with that big ghoul Bill Paxton. Fucking shout out to Bill Paxton. God, I'm going to watch that movie. Nicole, you want to watch Titanic tonight? Yeah, like a thing for Leo, but it's not like weird. Okay. All right, you ready to save a buck? Let's go then to deals of the week. Bye, bye, bye. Deals of the week this week. One is an embryo on it popped up. Yeah, play filled with a vagina right in the middle. That's it. Right in the middle. Yeah, right in the middle too. Labia and all. So there is an embryon that is up for sale right outside of St. Paul, Minnesota. A feller by the name of Sieber. Oh, yeah, Sieber. Oh, yeah. You see my vagina pinball there? Oh, uh-huh. Yeah. It's a bally in 81. Yeah, it's a good year. Wide body, two ball, multiball. Sounds are cool. The back glass on this thing looks good. Sure, it does have a little bit of wear. What embryon is not going to, right? I mean, it's just the times. So they're all going to have wear on them. It's the times. So there's a little bit of wear, but overall, it does look good. And for the price here, guys, $21.38. Buy, buy, buy! Weird-ass price there, Seaburk. Yeah, thought of a weird price there, $21.38. I think he's trying to thrill people, but $21.38 is a damn good price for an Embryon that, frankly, is very hard to find. Those don't come around often, and it is a rather fun and beautiful game. I love the back glass on that game The story it's trying to tell? Question? Not sure I like the green eggs Are green eggs coming from the vagina? What is going on here? Yeah, pick that son of a bitch up $21.38, you're probably talking down to the $2100 Because he's being weird with the $38 I'd say that's the deal of the week Bye bye bye indeed Another deal of the week this week is an Iron Maiden Premium It's a good one Right outside of Little Elm, Texas Gonna play in Texas Oh, that's right, you hate country music I despise it With every fiber You should have played in that tune Oh well, another episode Wop Mike I hear Wop and I hear that song Wop W-O-P Mike Speaking of vagina playfields Wop Mike 2001 Out of Little Elm, Texas Has an Iron Maiden Legacy of the Beast Premium And for those of you who message me once a week that say, hey, you got any of those Iron Maiden premiums in stock? No, and they haven't built any forever, and they won't build any. I don't know when. Iron Maiden's going to continue to trend up because it's at the end of the production run. I'm telling you that right now, listener. Iron Maiden is at the end of its life. Sure, they may vault it later, but it's about done. They have not ran the premiums in a substantially long amount of time, nor do they have it scheduled, I don't think, for quite some time either. Hashtag dead to them over at Stern. It's sold really well. But the premiums in general, people just want to get their hands on. This one's $6,800. I'll tell you what. On the secondary market, the premium Iron Maidens and the premium Deadpools, and Elvirus, those three premiums will get you new in-box prices, guaranteed. So this is $6,800. You're saving right there at, yeah, you're saving money. This is a buy, buy, buy. Buy, buy, buy! All right, and to close her up here on Pinball, Market Trends Trademark. It's deals of the what and who the who. This one's going to a machine and a feller trying to sell it outside of San Francisco, California. Stern pinball machine. A boutique, feller. One that I'm sure you've played, nor have I. I'm being a bit judgy. I'm not being worth what it's being asked for. It's new in box. And I don't even know the price of these things. I might be way off price. But when you're trying to sell a pinball machine, sure, it's called Supreme. But when you're trying to sell that for $48,000? Sell, sell, sell. No. What? $48,000? I do think, actually, that some of them have went for $50,000. Whew. Get out of here. What the fuck? Bay Area pinster. Here's why I'm doing the deal of the WTF, though, on it. It's not the machine. It's not the price. Not the location. I'd love to visit San Francisco. It's the description. I'm going to read you the following description that this individual has. God bless you, Bay Area, Pinster. You might be the most loveliest person. This is for entertainment purposes. So my apologies, because I'm about to fucking rip you. I'm going to read this description out loud in how I hear it. In IB, it was going to be kept as a showpiece in my living room. But my cousin, who got my other one, told my wife, how much these go for, so sadly, it must go willing to trade for high-end liquor or wine. Or towards a Porsche. It's not a Porsche. It's a Porsche. So, that's what's getting the what the fuck. Willing to trade for high-end liquor or wine. What are you, a fucking pirate? What are you going to put that out there like that? Okay, so you get a nice wine collection. Or a Porsche. Not a Maserati. A Porsche. Who gives a shit, dude? So you want to fucking trade it? Or you want to sell the thing? Don't try to throw... I've had two of them, thank you. I've got nice liquor. First of all, as someone who likes Porsches, He's not going to get much of a Porsche. An old 911, is he? No, hell no. Old 907 or whatever the fuck. I have no clue, Porsche. Carrera? What was the SUV that I wanted so bad? The Camara, Camara, Cabera, Cabera, fucking Riviera. What was it? Cayenne. Cayenne pepper. It was a Cayenne, right? Cayenne? Cayenne? Do you call her a Cy? What do you do? Talk about your supreme flexor There you go Dennis Have at it on him I'll let the leash off you And tear it into my ankles for flexing I'm the super flexor I've on to Porsche and Lickers and Wines And I've got two of the Supremes Give him a six pack of Natty Light as an offer That's right Mitsubishi GT3000 How about it? You're old school there I like it And ladies and gentlemen And that was your, I'm so glad you're back, Fowler, pinball market trend trademark, courtesy of the pinball show affiliated with the pinball network. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Bye, bye, bye. Chill, chill, chill. All right, in closing this week, I want to thank Jason Fowler for hopping on to the show. I miss you, buddy. Don't go. Don't leave me again. Thanks for having me. I'll come back anytime you want. You need a spot filled I won't hear from you for another six months I'll actually get my decent mics I'm not talking into my potato Or Ida Or whatever What's the tater tots? I like tater tots Yeah I think our right is Are you a tot or a fry guy? I'm a tot guy As long as they're crispy Don't give me a mushy tot Ketchup, mustard, barbecue What do you put on those? Ranch? Honey? I like a little bit of ranch Oh, going ranch. Probably not good for the health there. No, no. Where can people catch you? Because I'd love to have you on again if you're willing to do it. I have so much freaking, and the audience knows as they hear me, I have so much fun talking to you and for the audience to get to hear you again. Maybe every couple months or so, would you be willing to come back? Absolutely. Yeah, I'd love to. You guys heard it here, and I got it on tape. You can get a hold of me on Facebook. That's probably the easiest. Send me a message on there. Always glad to talk pinball And you can catch us at the pinball network At gmail.com always feel free to reach Out to one of our co-hosts through that means As well and we'll forward it right on over Happy to do that and you can catch The straight down the middle video series Of pinball and other things Coming soon over on YouTube Greg Bone and I do that Do that show and we've got some Really fun stuff coming up at the end of the year Here all the support that you guys have Granted us this entire 2020 has been very uplifting, and we truly actually needed it a lot of times. So between the podcast and the video show, thank you for the support. You can also support me and my wife, Nicole, by giving us a shot at flipping out pinball. We distribute brand-new pinball machines, some used the Escalator stair-climbing hand truck, and some new products to be added very soon, maybe end of 2020, beginning of 2021. It's your one-stop shop for everything fun. But yeah, give us a shot Let us earn that business And it'll be our job to sustain that business And I have the utmost confidence That we will be able to do that for you A lot of people are in And a lot of repeat customers So we're having a lot of fun over there And what better than the Machine Showcase this week That's the Batman 66 Premium Now, people love this game, Fowler You know that Oh yeah, great game A lot of dealers are out of it But this squirrel has a couple nuts left For Batman 66 Still get a couple And I don't know when they're making these things again It'll be a little bit of time It's one of those premiums that don't run all the time Also Avengers Pro is in stock Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Premium That would be my choice right now Because it is a brutal mean monster that's so much fun Premiums are in stock Hot Wheels in stock Sometimes those are hard to get but we've got them ready to go Star Wars Comic Pro still in stock That is a pretty pinball machine Star Wars The Pin Original and comic book editions If you want just something to throw in your game room or you've got a break room at work, get an extra ride off, people. Put that in your break room. Plenty of you own businesses. That would be perfect for coworkers there. MMR accessories like the topper, the lighting, the display all in stock. Guardians Pro, I think I've got one left. Attack from Mars SE, there is legit one left. I don't know if they're running those again. Monster Bash SE in stock. So on, so forth. We just did some endorsement for armor. Armor's hard to come by for stern pinball armor, so get it before it's gone. Even if you think you're going to own the machine JP Armor has been kind of hard to get a hold of We got Avengers Armor in stock now And Turtles Armor So bye bye bye For Jason Fowler, I am Zachary Menny Be good to one another, keep flipping See you next time guys And always practice safe pinball Mr. Kirby Fowler, you raised one hell of a man Thank you Up So long everybody And I'll take With me the memory I guarantee Nico Volta has chest on their hair. That's a guarantee. It's just the name. Has chest on their hair or hair on their chest? I guarantee Nico Volta has hair on their chest. I mean, come on, it's just the name. You're showing people that Jason Fowler. Right back in the staff. Even though I'm riding backwards and going the wrong direction. We're still on the same trail, damn it. Yeah, exactly. To be my sunshine and the rain It's so hard to say goodbye To yesterday _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: b89ae0ff-b825-48dd-acd7-fa3433309dc3*