# Episode 110 - Interview with Brent Amrhein 6-21-15 **Source:** For Amusement Only EM and Bingo Pinball Podcast **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2015-06-29 **Duration:** 45m 11s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://foramusementonly.libsyn.com/episode-110-interview-with-brent-amrhein-6-21-15 --- ## Analysis Nick Baldrige interviews Brent Amrhein about his first visit to Southern Fried Game Room Expo in Atlanta. Brent, a 25-year-old computer programmer, discusses his favorite machines from the show (Iron Man, Walking Dead, Fleet Junior, Scared Stiff) and shares his impressions of both modern and vintage pinball machines. The conversation explores EM-era game design, wood rail mechanics, and collector perspectives on underappreciated manufacturers like Chicago Coin. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Fleet Junior was made in 1934 by Bally — _Nick Baldrige references a database lookup and shows Brent the production year and variant information_ - [HIGH] Singapore was made in 1947 by United and initially had no flippers, though flippers were later added — _Nick Baldrige states this based on pinball database research; confirms that United's founder Linda Rondeau (note: likely 'Lindemann' or similar) was initially opposed to flippers_ - [HIGH] Kilroy was made by Chicago Coin in 1947 and featured artwork by Roy Parker, a prominent Gottlieb artist — _Nick Baldrige provides manufacturer and artist attribution after database lookup_ - [MEDIUM] Chicago Coin games were looked down upon by collectors, especially in the 60s and 70s, despite having innovative features — _Nick Baldrige's editorial assessment; Brent agrees that Chicago Coin machines deserve more appreciation_ - [HIGH] Fleet Junior had a pedestal-style tilt mechanism with a steel ball, rather than electric tilt detection — _Nick Baldrige explains the mechanical feature visible in Fleet Junior's design_ - [HIGH] Older games commonly used marbles instead of steel balls, with different colors (white standard, one black for double scoring) — _Nick Baldrige educates Brent on historical pinball ball variations_ - [MEDIUM] P-Rock is a popular Python-based framework for programming pinball machines — _Brent mentions this when discussing programming pinball machines with modular components_ - [HIGH] Bride of Pinbot exists in both DMD and alphanumeric versions — _Brent observed both versions at Southern Fried; Nick confirms the display technology difference_ ### Notable Quotes > "I feel like I like them both about the same, which is kind of weird. Before I started playing a bunch of pinball, after you got super into this hobby, I figured all the old machines would be super boring, but they're really not." > — **Brent Amrhein**, ~23:00 > _Captures the gateway moment for a younger player discovering the complexity and appeal of EM-era machines_ > "I do math for my job. I refuse to do it again. I'm trying to relax." > — **Brent Amrhein**, ~47:00 > _Humorous pushback on Fleet Junior's manual scoring requirement; reveals generational attitudes toward gameplay friction_ > "You've got to give them a chance because you never know." > — **Nick Baldrige**, ~37:00 > _Sums up the episode's central thesis about reevaluating underappreciated manufacturers and eras_ > "Smacking stuff is so satisfying." > — **Brent Amrhein**, ~8:00 > _Identifies physical interaction/feedback as a core appeal factor in modern pinball design (Iron Man, Walking Dead)_ > "That's ageistic, Brent." > — **Nick Baldrige**, ~40:00 > _Light rebuke when Brent expresses surprise that a teenager was interested in vintage machines rather than newer ones_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Brent Amrhein | person | 25-year-old computer programmer from Atlanta, guest on the podcast; attends Southern Fried Game Room Expo and discusses pinball preferences with host Nick Baldrige | | Nick Baldrige | person | Host of For Amusement Only EM and Bingo Pinball Podcast; collector of vintage and EM-era pinball machines; educator on pinball history and mechanics | | Southern Fried Game Room Expo | event | Pinball and arcade game exhibition in Atlanta; featured mix of modern and vintage machines; Brent attended Friday night of the event | | Roy Parker | person | Prominent pinball artist associated with Gottlieb; also did artwork for Chicago Coin games like Kilroy (1947) | | Chicago Coin | company | Pinball manufacturer historically underappreciated by collectors; produced games like Kilroy (1947) and Twinkie; known for innovation despite poor collector reputation | | Gottlieb | company | Major pinball manufacturer; historically high-status brand; Roy Parker was signature artist for Gottlieb | | Bally | company | Historic pinball manufacturer; used pedestal-style tilt mechanisms in early games like Fleet | | United | company | Pinball manufacturer; produced Singapore (1947); initially opposed flippers before later adopting them | | Fleet Junior | game | 1934 Bally pinball game; countertop variant with naval/battleship theme; features cannon loading and manual scoring; manual tilt mechanism | | Singapore | game | 1947 United pinball game; flipperless design initially, later had flippers added; plays with field holds requiring spelling | | Kilroy | game | 1947 Chicago Coin game with wartime theme; features Roy Parker artwork; has repeater hole mechanism and extra special replay award | | Iron Man | game | Modern pinball machine at Southern Fried; featured Ironmonger target that Brent enjoyed hitting | | The Walking Dead | game | Modern pinball machine at Southern Fried; features zombie target and unique magnet mechanics that impressed Brent | | Scared Stiff | game | Newer Elvira pinball variant; features spider-zapping mechanic in back glass; preferred by Brent over the older Elvira game | | Bride of Pinbot | game | Available in both DMD and alphanumeric display versions; was played by Brent at Southern Fried with popular crowd | | Pinball Magic | game | Fast-playing modern pinball machine; Capcom first game; has DMD display; features similar art style to Bride of Pinbot by same artist | | Medieval Madness | game | Popular pinball machine that Brent did not get to play at Southern Fried despite it being present | | Egghead | game | Difficult vintage pinball machine; tic-tac-toe pattern-based gameplay; was so popular that sequels and copies were made by other manufacturers | | Twinkie | game | Chicago Coin game; features fast play and innovative design; ball can go outside flippers; brutally difficult; favorite of Molly (Nick's friend/family) | | P-Rock | product | Python-based framework for programming pinball machines; used for machines with replaceable modular components like Lexi Lightspeed | | Lexi Lightspeed | game | Computer-controlled pinball machine with replaceable modular components (flippers, targets, etc.); programmable using P-Rock framework | | Asheville Pinball Museum | venue | Museum in Asheville, North Carolina that Brent has visited; houses various vintage machines including Terminator games and baseball-themed titles | | Molly | person | Associate of Nick Baldrige; plays pinball, particularly favors Twinkie machine | | Pinball Database | organization | Online reference resource used by Nick and Brent during interview to verify game details and specifications | ### Topics - **Primary:** EM-era pinball machine design and mechanics, Vintage pinball exhibitions and shows, Collector attitudes toward underappreciated manufacturers, Modern vs. vintage pinball gameplay experience - **Secondary:** Pinball machine history and evolution, Computer programming in pinball design, Physical/tactile appeal of pinball features - **Mentioned:** Generational engagement with vintage arcade games ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.82) — Brent expresses enthusiasm about his expo experience and discovery of EM machines; Nick is educational and supportive; both appreciate the craft and design of older games. Minor frustration noted with difficulty of some machines (Egghead) but framed as engaging rather than negative. Tone is warm, collaborative, and community-focused. ### Signals - **[community_signal]** Brent observes younger players (teens) showing genuine interest in EM-era wood rail machines at Southern Fried, suggesting growing crossover appeal beyond older collector demographics (confidence: medium) — There was a kid who was in his teens just hovering around there, and he just seemed so interested in those older machines - **[collector_signal]** Discussion of Chicago Coin as underappreciated manufacturer with innovative features (Twinkie, Kilroy) challenges traditional collector hierarchy; suggests potential reassessment of legacy (confidence: medium) — Chicago Coin is looked down upon by a lot of collectors...But you look at something like Twinkie that has all those features and is so fast and so difficult, and it makes you wonder why people think that way - **[event_signal]** Southern Fried Game Room Expo in Atlanta featured significant mixed-era lineup with good attendance and crowd dynamics; suggests healthy regional pinball show infrastructure (confidence: high) — Brent attended Friday night, was there ~3 hours, found it crowded but friendly; discovered additional rooms of machines later - **[gameplay_signal]** Brent's preferences highlight appeal of physical/tactile feedback (smacking targets, magnets) in modern machines and retention of this appeal in EM games (confidence: high) — I really like smacking things...the magnets on the walking dead were super cool...so different; iron monger came out and he got to whack him with a ball - **[design_philosophy]** Tension between game design complexity/challenge and player relaxation/enjoyment; Brent's objection to manual scoring in Fleet suggests modern players may resist certain EM mechanics (confidence: medium) — I do math for my job. I refuse to do it again. I'm trying to relax...Simple addition? How dare you? - **[community_signal]** Brent's story exemplifies successful onboarding of younger player (age 25) into pinball hobby through friend introduction; he started from minimal arcade experience as child (confidence: high) — I played every very great once in a while when I was a super tiny kid...didn't even know places still had pinball machines until you told me - **[technology_signal]** Lexi Lightspeed's replaceable module architecture and P-Rock Python framework represent emerging technical innovation for programmable machines outside major manufacturers (confidence: medium) — The whole thing has replaceable modules...pop off the flippers or target bank and swap it with something else...one of the most popular frameworks for programming is P-Rock and it uses Python - **[historical_signal]** Detailed discussion of Fleet (1934), Singapore (1947), Kilroy (1947) mechanics documents specific eras and designer decisions (flipper adoption resistance, tilt mechanisms, replay awards) (confidence: high) — Multiple machines from 1947 era discussed; United's initial flipper resistance; Bally pedestal tilt mechanisms; wood rail features across multiple manufacturers - **[sentiment_shift]** Brent's initial skepticism about EM machines ('figured all the old machines would be super boring') inverted by direct play experience; suggests effective venue education/exposure (confidence: high) — Before I started playing...I figured all the old machines would be super boring, but they're really not...simple complexity to them - **[venue_signal]** Southern Fried included dedicated tournament room, multiple game areas discovered over time, arcade section, and good machine maintenance/availability (though some out of order) (confidence: medium) — Tournament in its own little room...wandered around for a while...found a different room that was just huge...had tons of arcade games...multiple EM games out of order --- ## Transcript what's that sound it's for amusement only the em and bingo pinball podcast i'm gonna have some pinball beer he's doing it he's drinking pinball beer looks delicious i was buying sandwich supplies and saw saw the beer aisle and thought i should get some pinball beer. How apropos. Yeah. Well, welcome back to For Amusement Only. This is Nick Baldrige, and tonight I've got a special guest, my friend Brent Amrine. Brent, how are you doing? I'm doing great. Now that you got some pinball beer? Yep. Brent is based in Atlanta, Georgia, and this weekend they had the Southern Fried Game Room Expo, which I encouraged him to go check out. And I did. How did you like it? It was pretty awesome. I only went on Friday night, and I was there for maybe about three hours. But I got to play a whole lot of pinball, and I got to stand behind a whole bunch of people playing pinball. The line-waiting experience is the best part of shows. Yeah, definitely. Everyone was really friendly, though. There was one guy who was too wrapped up in one of the games, and he was playing for quite a minute before noticing me. But once he did, he stepped aside and let me play. So no fistfights broke out? No fistfight that I saw, at least. Well, good. So what was your favorite game that you played? Any era. Any era. Okay. I had a few, actually. There was Iron Man. Iron Man was a whole lot of fun. And I really loved how the Ironmonger came out of the field and he got to whack him with a ball a whole bunch. That was super cool. Smacking stuff is satisfying. Yeah, smacking stuff is so satisfying. I also really liked The Walking Dead. That also had a big zombie in the middle of the field that you could whack. He didn't rise out of the field, but he was there for your hitting pleasure. And it also had these really cool magnets that would just draw the ball all over the field. and that was kind of unique amongst all the games. So those two were probably my favorite newer style pinball games. But of the older ones, I only played a couple. One of them, oh, God, I can't remember. I have it written down somewhere. I made sure. No, maybe I didn't write it down. Crap. I'll have to go through my photos. I think it was Egg Something. Egghead. Yeah. Egghead. But, yeah, that thing was, I don't know, maybe I was just getting really unlucky, but I tried playing a couple of games of that, and each game was just so short and miserable. Big Head is a really hard game. Oh, okay. At least I think so. And it's not just me, because, yeah, it was kicking my butt. All you're trying to do is make tic-tac-toe patterns. Yeah, well, and I just kept losing the ball, so I wasn't really sure. It's simple. Yeah, exactly. but other than that I really really enjoyed Fleet that game was super cool we're talking about Bally's Fleet from 1930 something 1930 something it sounds exactly right 1930s yeah I don't know before actually reading the instructions I was just trying really hard to get the balls into the top one without loading the cannons first I was like oh wait this is what you're supposed to do and once I I actually had the cannons loaded up a bit with a couple of balls when I made it into the top action hole, and it shot it forward. That was just so satisfying. Yep. A lot of those early ones from the 30s tried a bunch of unique stuff, and that's part of what I talk about here is some of that kind of forgotten history because a lot of that wasn't repeated until long after World War II was over, and in some cases not until the 80s or 90s. Oh. Yep. So was there anything else stand out in the EM era? Nothing that stood out as much as Fleet for me. But like I said, I only played a couple of the games. There were multiple EM era games that were out of order. So I don't know if that's normal or probably. I don't know. It depends. Every show is a little different. Right. That had a pretty cool baseball one, but I didn't play it. I just watched a guy play it for a while. Can you describe what was going on in that one? It had a big empty field, and I don't know. Did you just kind of whack the ball across it? I don't know. It was, yeah. So it had flippers? I don't think it did. Yeah, no, it had to have. Yeah. I don't know. Okay. Yeah, there's a few different ones, and some of them... I feel like I've seen a few different, because I remember in the Pinball Museum in Asheville, they had a completely different baseball game than the one that I'm thinking of. Oh, yeah. I forgot you'd been to the Asheville Pinball Museum, too. Yeah, yeah. That one's pretty cool, too. There was a Terminator 3 and 2 at Asheville, and then I saw a Terminator 3 at the Southern Pride game room. Or maybe it was a two. Whichever one has the spinny gun thing in the back glass where you shoot the ball across. That's three. That's three? Yeah. Okay, that was... Man, I could have... Okay, yeah, I could have sworn the one at Southern Fried Game Room did not have that, but yeah, okay. That would be two. I'm sure it was three, but yeah. All right. I didn't play it because I'd played it before, and there was, again, a big line. And I walked by Bride of Pinbot like five times, and every single time there were just so many people around it that I just kept coming back around to it later and later in the evening. And eventually I got to play as Bride of Pinbot, and I did terrible. I did not load up her eyes. Didn't turn her human? No, I didn't. I think the version that they had there is a recently remade Bride of Pinbot. They had two Brita pinbots, actually. Did they have them side by side? No. There was one with a DMD screen and then one that's alphanumeric. I think both might have been represented there. I thought just the DMD one was there. I didn't really inspect the other one, so I couldn't really tell you. Well, at any rate, talking more about the older machines, were there any bingos hanging out there? I saw there were a couple of machines that looked kind of bingo-ish, but I don't think any were real bingos. Okay. At least I didn't see it. I feel like I might have missed a whole other room. I wandered around for a little while, and then I was there for about an hour and a half before I found a different room that was just huge and had a whole bunch of other pinball machines in it. So there's a good chance that I missed something. But, yeah, no, I didn't really, I didn't see any bingos. So that was kind of weird because for the older machines, like, they all kind of had those grouped together. But none of them were bingos. And if I'm totally wrong about that, someone listening, then, you know, sorry. I didn't see any photos of bingos. Yeah, I mean, I took a lot of pictures. I don't think I got every machine, but I took pictures of most of the machines. so yep I didn't see any bingos and that did cross my mind as I was walking around looking at everything like man Nick would be so disappointed or he'd feel really smug that he's the only guy with a bingo machine I don't know wow I guess next time I'm in Atlanta I'll have to drop a bingo off with you you'll have to take one definitely they're easier to transport right nothing could go wrong there absolutely you just walk it down piece at a time to the show okay gotcha and then putting it all together is easy peasy right come on so and you've been to my home and you've played a variety of machines here as well what would you say your favorite era of machine is so we're going by decade because I probably can't really list the decades Oh, okay. Do you like the computer-controlled machines? I feel like I like them both about the same, which is kind of weird. Before I started playing a bunch of pinball, after you got super into this hobby, I figured all the old machines would be super boring, but they're really not. There's a strange complexity to them, and it's, you know, I don't know. They're really simple, and they're complex. Like, they're hard to do. win. I don't know. I think it was kind of fun. Like Egghead. Oh, God, Egghead. So Egghead was so popular that they made a sequel. Oh, great. Yeah. It was popular? No. And the other manufacturers copied the same design as well. Oh, okay. It's a fun game And actually all the permutations I've played more than two games of it It just beat me so bad I wanted to spend my time actually Feeling good about some things Get fed up and punch a wall, Brett Yeah, and then have to buy the machine Or something Which I'm sure you would enjoy There we go Yeah So did they have any bowling-themed games? I thought I saw 300 in the lineup there. I think there was. I didn't play it, but that does ring a bell. I tried to play as many as I could at the time I was there, but it was really crowded. You weren't just shoving people out of the way? No, I didn't feel like it. It's my turn now. Yeah. I just really passive-aggressively sat there and tapped my foot. How'd that work for you? Yeah, it worked pretty well. You got to put a quarter up on the glass, man. Yeah, let's make this interesting. Start playing people. Oh, one of the other things that really stood out was that Lexi Lightspeed. That thing was crazy. Absolutely nuts. It was of interest to me as well, having kind of a computer bent. The whole thing has replaceable modules. Yeah, you were telling me that. That's crazy. Pop or the flippers or that target bank or whatever and swap it with something else entirely different It was kind of cool Yeah And I don know I mean I guess how easy are those things to program Are they pretty, like, I don't know. I know that one of the most popular frameworks for programming pinball machines is something called P-Rock, and it uses Python. Oh, cool. I think you told me about that before. that's awesome that's something if I ever get a completely destroyed solid state it might be something that I put my hand to yeah do that but not anytime soon yeah oh man I should have played more of the older machines because I forgot that this podcast was more focused on that good looking out man Good luck. My bad. I think they might have ended the festival already. Yeah, I believe... We could have done an on-air thing while I was there. Why didn't we do it? Well, you know. I'm not trying to impinge on your enjoyment there. It's your first show. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I don't know. The whole thing was really cool, though. And they had tons of arcade games. They had a pinball tournament in its own little room. which was kind of cool, I guess. I didn't stay in there that long. No, I wouldn't dare compete. I'd just make a fool out of myself. I've learned since playing more pinball, you know, this past couple of years that each machine that I start playing at, it takes me a couple of balls to get used to, like, the flow of everything. So, yeah, I'll lose the first two balls, and then I'll get on a roll with the third one or something. And then you'll tilt out? Yeah, exactly. That's what happened to me. There was one machine that was just super fast. It was Pinball Magic. That was a really fun game, and the ball on that thing was just super fast. It was like a bullet, you know, just going all around the field. So that was kind of cool. It took me a minute to get warmed up on that, but yeah. I feel like, I mean, that one kind of reminded me a little bit of Bright Up Pinbot, if I'm remembering it correctly. I don't know. maybe it's just that style of the way they do their, their women, but I don't, I don't know. So yeah, it's the same artist. Oh, okay. Well, that makes sense then. Yeah. They switched, uh, he switched companies. Uh, that was Capcom's first game. So that was after pinbot or after Williams. Yeah. Okay. Oh, I mean, they were a little bit older, but nevermind. Nope. Nope. That one's new. Interesting. You can tell because Bride of Pinball has alphanumeric, and then Pinball Magic has the DMD that displays. Right. Yep. Okay. I didn't see a Medieval Madness, which was very disappointing. There was one there. I saw a picture. Did I take a picture of one? No, no. Oh, man. Where was that thing? Because I want to play the crap out of that. I think they roped it off and said, no Brents allowed. Oh, those jerks. Yeah, I feel like I would have known if I had crossed the Medieval Madness. That's a fun game. But talking about the older games. I don't know. I don't know anything about them. You know some stuff. First of all, let's go back a little bit. How old are you? Me? Oh, I'm a whole 25 years old. There we go. So this should place for some of my listeners exactly where you're coming from. Yeah. Did you play pinball as a kid? I played every very great once in a while when I was a super tiny kid. You know, any rare occasion where I would actually get to go to an arcade, they would still have pinball machines, and I'd mess around a little bit then. but I could not tell you what pinball machines I played because it was like three or four at the time. So, yeah. That's cool. And so when did you start playing again? Was it when I started introducing you again? Yeah, pretty much. Because, yeah, I don't know, arcades kind of fell out of style for a little while there, I feel like. So I didn't even know that, you know, places still had pinball machines until you told me that they had them at the Putt-Putt in the Middle Oatean. So, yeah. And I dragged you out there one day. Yep, and that was super fun too. That Putt-Putt has an Indiana Jones and a, what was the other one? It did at the time, and a Rolling Stones. Rolling Stones, that's right. Okay. But, so, you've played a couple of different bingos at my house. Do you have a favorite? uh which one's the first one you got the double up okay i think i like that one more and i absolutely have no idea how to play either one so despite playing both of them and you going over the rules i'd still always forget okay but no they're they're really cool machines i just wish I had the capacity to remember the rules. So I guess it bears mentioning, you know, 95 minutes into this podcast here that Brent is a computer programmer. So do you think you could whip up something similar to that in just electromechanicals? It'd take a very frustrating minute. I feel like, yeah. It's an entirely different skill set, you know, to design. Yeah, I don't think I would want to. Those kind of mechanisms, yes, it's difficult. I don't know how you have the patience for fixing those things. So, and I've heard the horror stories that you've gone through, just trying to debug and fix like a simple little problem with the machine, and then it's just so many layers deep and all the mechanicals. It's so amazingly satisfying, though. I'm sure it is. Yeah. Like, you know that feeling when you have a bug that you've introduced? Yeah. And it takes you, like, an entire day to figure out what's going on? Yep, a common occurrence. Yeah, exactly. It's the same thing, but with, you know, moving parts, so it's kind of cool. Yeah, definitely. So do you like, what's your favorite feature on a pinball machine? Do you like drop targets? Do you like stand-up targets? do you like things that you smack like that iron monger i really like smacking things uh i also the the magnets on the walking dead were super cool i don't know that was just so different so i'm really into that now oh man i don't know because i really uh i forget which machine of yours that i really enjoy playing but uh it's the one where the the ball can go like right by the flippers on the outside. Twinkie. Twinkie, yes. I really enjoy that machine for some reason. I just can't stop playing that machine whenever I'm over. Maybe it's because I'm just always trying to beat it and I never can. It's really brutally difficult. Yeah, yeah. That's Molly's favorite as well. Oh, interesting. Yeah, it's kind of weird. That's like the only one that she plays. I don't think she liked anything. I'm just kidding. I know it seems that way. Yeah, sorry, Molly. She doesn't listen. Oh, okay. You're safe. But yeah, that one is just so fast. And, you know, Chicago Coin is looked down upon by a lot of collectors. They were the also-rans of that era. Yeah, the people who made Twinkie. And you look at something like Twinkie that has all those features and is so fast. and so difficult, and it makes you wonder why people think that way. I wonder if they just haven't given them a chance. Yeah. I don't know. So that's kind of my thing with the older games in general is you've got to give them a chance because you never know. Oh, yeah. So what I was pretty impressed with when I was playing the older machines, there was a kid who was in his teens just hovering around there, and he just seemed so interested in those older machines. and like, I don't know, for a minute there, it was just me and this kid playing the older machines, everybody else focusing on all the newer stuff. But I don't know, it was kind of surprising that I just expected someone a little bit older would be hovering around the mechanical machines. But yeah, I don't know. That's ageistic, Brent. Yeah, I know, that's horrible of me, but I still thought it was cool. So, yeah. This kid gets the simple stuff like me. Well, you know, simple doesn't mean bad. No, not at all. And a pure simple doesn't mean that it actually is. Right. Which, yes, totally not, especially in the case of a bingo. Jesus Christ. So were there any wood rails there? I don't know exactly what you mean by that. So most pinball machines that you see, especially nowadays, have metal side rails that you hold on to. But in the 40s and the 50s and the 30s, they had wooden rails. Right. Okay. So these would be really old machines. I don't think so, but I wasn't really looking for it. So, yeah, sorry. Like, fleet would qualify just barely. Okay. Yeah, nothing really stood out to me that way, so. Did they have a game there called Scorgasm Master, by any chance? I didn't see it. I didn't see one, but that name is fantastic. I agree. So it's a modern recreation of the game from the 30s, and it uses a couple of solid-state components, but it's basically the same playfield layout and has the same manual scoring tabulation, like in Fleet. Oh, okay. You have to count. Yeah, yeah. That was the one thing about Fleet that I didn't like. Oh, you didn't like it? No. It was pretty cool. I do math for my job. I refuse to do it again. I'm trying to relax. Simple addition? How dare you? It all happened so fast. So did Fleet have a double scoring ball A ball of a different color Not that I saw no Okay Was it five balls or ten It was five I've never played one, so that's why the simple questions. I remember when I started playing, it looked like there were just five loaded up, but then there was one game where I just kept hitting balls in the holes. I don't know. It would have had to have been more than five balls. Let's go with ten. I'm going to go with 10. That's my final answer. All right. Well, on the older games, 10 was commonplace, and instead of steel balls, they used marbles. And the marbles would be different colors. So most of them would be white, for example, and then maybe one was black. And the black one scored double. Yeah, no, that was not the same. Were the marble balls the same size? No, they were smaller. Oh, okay. Well, these were the typical steel pinballs, so maybe I guess it had to have been five then, right? Did you say a minute ago that? Typically it is, yeah. Typically, okay. So this would be in 37. Did it have a backbox? No. No, it was just the play field. Yeah. In a box. Okay. I can't imagine it with a backbox. Let me look up what this thing is here. Does the one with the backbox keep the score for you? Because that's where it's at. Yeah, when they introduce back boxes, that's when they start tabulating your score for you. Awesome. So Fleet, for those who don't know, was a game that was made in 1934. and it came in two different forms. There was Fleet Senior and Fleet Junior. Fleet Junior was smaller, like a countertop game. That's the one that I played, right? I believe you played Fleet Senior. Was it on legs or was it on a counter? It was on legs, I'm pretty sure. Let me find a picture of it. Because I feel like it's in the picture, which one it is. Or maybe it's not. Yeah, it says 1934 Fleet Junior. Fleet Junior, huh, okay. So the idea of fleet is that it's a battleship, you know, or a fleet of ships, and there are a variety of cannons on the play field, and what you want to do is load them all and then land in the hole at the top, correct? Yes. And then it fires all the cannons. Right, right. So you only have access when you fire the ball through the ramp. You can only really get it into, I guess, three of the cannons because the rest are kind of blocked off. And those are the outermost cannons. And once you've got the balls in there, you want to shoot a ball into the top hole. And then that triggers it to shoot the ball forward, and then it lands up into the higher cannons. I see. Yeah, it's so cool. I love it. Wow. Yeah. Is there a way – I see that there's a center cannon, which is huge. Yeah, yeah. I got a ball in there somehow, but I didn't get to fire that off. That's a shame. I should have played longer. It looks like what it can do is as you load the outer cannons, then you roll down and you fire into the middle cannons and into the upper. So the upper you actually can access from the outside, and then the two at the top, once you have a ball in those and you get the action ball, that'll shoot up, and then I think the ball kind of rolls down into the big one. Yes, and so I'm wondering if all of them will fire. Oh, that's a good point. Because it's a giant. Right, no, I think it actually exits down into that little slot. If you're looking at the picture, there's a slot beneath it. Yeah, which is a bunch of points, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so that's what it is. Yeah, yeah. We'll work through this together. Yeah. Yeah, what a pretty game. Yeah, that game's super cool. And so there's nothing else like that there. So looking at Fleet Junior here, I see it's got the pedestal-style tilt mechanism. Did you notice that? No, I don't really know what you mean by that. Over by the shooter rod, because there was no way to electrically tell you, you know, there was no light that would flash that would say tilt if you shook it too hard. There's a little steel ball that sits on a pedestal. I was wondering what that was. That's the tilt mechanism. A super pool. Yeah, if you shake it off of there, it's valid. It doesn't end the game. Oh, it doesn't? No, because you could gamble with these, technically. But, you know, you would know if you lost by doing that. So if you went to show the barkeeper, look, I got all five balls in the big main cannon. And you're like, hey, you shook the hell out of the game. Make that happen. Yeah, okay. So it's kind of interesting. Yeah. Neat. Yeah, and a variety of manufacturers used that mechanism for a very long time. Like who? I mean, Bally, obviously. I always thought it was Bally until I heard you say it. Some people pronounce it Bali. Oh, okay. And I don't know which is correct. Oh, no. Someone out there knows. I am certain. I am more than certain that somebody. What do you listeners should write in? You should. Oh, snail mail. You absolutely should. Yeah. Snail mail. That's the only way I'll accept that. And then write out the phonetic pronunciation. Yeah. Or a gramophone disc. I'll accept that. So I saw that there was our United game there because there was a posting about how Linda Ront said he would never put flippers on a game. Yeah, and then he ended up doing it. Yes. Yeah. Do you remember which game that was? I think it was Singapore. Singapore, yes. Okay. So did you get to play that one? I could list that off so quickly because it was the next picture in my little album here. You don't have to reveal all your secrets, man. Oh, okay. I'm really familiar with pinball machine. Singapore was made in 1947, and so that was after World War II. Yeah. And manufacturing was coming back to amusement. and United at the time was putting out these games where you spelled the name on the play field. Did you play this one? I played a little bit and I wasn't too great at it, I don't think. I mean, I got the balls in some of those play field holds, but I don't know. I wasn't blown away. It had a couple of flippers on it, but only the left one was a functioning flipper. So I don't know if that was intentional. I'm doubting it, but yeah. The game should have been flipperless. Yeah, okay, but he installed flippers on it, and only the left one worked. Okay. Yeah. I wonder where they were positioned, down at the bottom? No, they were actually pretty high up. You can see them in the picture. That's interesting. When United did start putting out flippers, they actually used these weird two posts with a band stretched between them instead of a flipper bat. Right. They're pretty odd to see. Yeah. But, yeah, they used that same or a pretty similar playfield layout. I guess they stuck with success because there were three kickout holes that go down sequentially in the playfield. and they kind of just did that over and over again. And then they had two little bonus takeouts on the left and right of the bottom one. Odd. Yeah, I never got it into those bonus ones. I only got them into the middle ones. Huh. Yeah, it looks like you would have to, if you had flippers installed, it looks like it would be pretty difficult because it's got to go down the rollovers on the left and right and then they've got to kind of bounce it off the rubber at the bottom. Yeah. But if you can't do that, then it's not going to happen. Yeah. So, well, were there any other standout EMs there that you remember? I'm going through my photos. Let's see. Maybe it was just bad memories of Egghead. You've got to give that one another shot, I think. I think I would like it. I was just, I mean, I played a couple of games and didn't do well, but, you know, that didn't really stop me for a minute. That's good. Yeah. It's like Twinkie, I guess. It was just infuriating, but then you can't stop. Yeah, other than the ones we talked about, I can't really say a whole lot about any of the other EM machines. I think I played a little bit of Kilroy. Oh, yeah. that's right there was a yeah Kenroy is I think I had fun playing that and I got a hundred thousand which was one of the bigger let up numbers and I felt good about that so who's the manufacturer on that Chicago coin I wish I took a picture of the actual play field I just took a picture of the back glass after I played a game I'm looking at it on the internet pinball database Yeah, I guess I can also use the internet. I have that privilege. You haven't taken it away from you yet? Not yet. So it's got this thing called a repeater hole down at the bottom. Do you remember what that did? I'm trying to find a picture. And no. Very good. So what's interesting about Kilroy is it was Chicago coin and Chicago coin, as I mentioned, was looked down upon, especially into the 60s and 70s. But at this time, Roy Parker, who was the artist for Gottlieb, was actually doing artwork for other companies. And so a very famous pinball artist who was kind of the Gottlieb signature artist did the artwork for this game. And it kind of a silly wartime theme And it was made in 1947 as well Everything happened in 1947 apparently Everything. Yeah, so there's two kickouts at the top that are 5,000. Yeah. And then the kickout in the middle, which is almost impossible to get in. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that thing looks... I certainly didn't get it in the middle one. So, yeah. You'd have to nudge at just the right time to send it up and over that triangular post. And then down below that is the repeater hole, which I have no idea what that does. All right. So, a lot of these wood rail games... This is a wood rail, by the way. And so is Singapore. Oh. Oh, okay. Yeah, they had those there. A lot of the Woodrail games had multiple ways to win replays, and they were typically signified by artwork that said special or extra special or super special. So Kilroy here has an extra special, which probably earned you five replays. But you had to light it. You had to earn it. Yeah, I didn't earn that. Oh, wow. All you had to do to light it was to roll down either side lane. And then you'd get five replays in the extra special hole. And apparently, that repeater hole does nothing. Nothing special. Okay, good. I'm glad then, because it was really hard. I can't remember it doing anything super cool. Nothing. I'm just going to pretend like it didn't. So any other standouts? I'm going to keep asking that question until you stop giving me answers. Am I restricted to a certain era of machine? Well, now let's open it up. Okay. I thought one of the Elvires was really cool, and the other one was kind of boring. I don't know if I'm going to get in a lot of trouble for saying that. Not here. I don't think. This is a safe place, Brent. Safe. Which Elvira did I like? I can't find the picture. Do you know the names of the Elvira machines? Of course I do. Scared Stiff is the newer one. Yeah, that's the one that I liked. And I had a spider that you were supposed to zap in the back glass, and I zapped him. I zapped him good. Well, great. Yeah, the spider gives you a random award. Oh, okay. Yeah, yep. I just felt great about zapping him. That was rewarding enough. Fightly. Any other favorites there? So, man, I can't remember which Star Trek it was, but one of the Star Trek machines has this feature where you get the ball loaded up in a cannon to launch a probe, quote-unquote. and so the way you launch it is you pull this little trigger, which is how you launch the ball to start the game in the first place. It's shaped like a little gun handle and you pull the trigger. So you do that for launching the probe and right in front of the gun, there's this little rail that you're supposed to launch it onto, but I didn't notice that railing there until I had done it twice. So I was just kind of shooting it across the field with no real purpose. Oh, go on. Again, this is not a Solid State podcast, but I will give you a little tip here. That one, it's going to randomly light an insert on the play field, and that's what you want to shoot at. Oh, okay. So I wasn't supposed to shoot up the rail? No. Oh. That's its resting position. That railing is how it loads the cannon. Oh, okay. So what would happen if you shot it up the railing? I don't know. I've never seen that happen. Okay. Okay, so I, yeah, I was just kind of shooting the ball around on the field, not really sure where to go. And then I noticed the railing and figured that that had to have been exactly what I was supposed to shoot it up. So, I was super wrong. More difficult than that. Okay. So you might notice that that cannon feature was the same thing as in Terminator 2 as well. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'd forgotten about that. So that's Star Trek The Next Generation. Okay. What's kind of cool is, yeah, they had all four of the Star Trek games right beside each other. Yeah, yeah. That's what I was going to say. Kind of cool. Anything else? Looking here, I was so happy to see a Centaur in person, even though I don't have a whole lot of fun playing it. I have a whole lot of fun looking at it. Pointing out the hilarious back glass artwork to Brent for a long time. Yeah, man, that is the best back glass. There's another machine with really hilarious back glass. It has something to do with melons. Well, Nelly. I don't think that's what it was called. Well, Nelly's Big Juicy Melons. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that one. So that's another brand-new game that's kind of a throwback. Oh, okay, because that seemed a bit older. Originally a replacement kit for an old Woodrail Gottlieb game called Continental Cafe. and the artist and designer ended up contracting with Stern, who's a big pinball manufacturer that's still around today, and they started producing these new machines. Yay! So what did you think of the gameplay on that? Did you give it a try? On Wonelli? Mm-hmm. I did terrible at it. There were a bunch of people in line to play it, so I only did one game. And I was also, I don't know, I did terrible. And then for that game, this and one of the other games, they had a camera above it so that whoever was playing was being broadcast to the entire room. So I played a really bad game, and then I wanted to leave. Slunk away in shame, huh? Yeah, pretty much. But it seemed all right. I wasn't blown away by it, but maybe that's because I was focusing on all the people around me, and I did really terrible. What did you think of the motorized score reels in the backbox? Those are cool. Yeah. I like games that have that. Those are neat. In the realm of arcades, did you play any of the stand-up arcades? They had some really good ones there. I played a couple, but I can't remember the names of the ones I played. I don't think I took pictures of them. But the ones that I played were mostly like you're flying a ship and you shoot bad things. But it wasn't like, you know, it wasn't Galaga or anything. God, I wish I could remember the one in particular that I was playing. it had this little wheel that you would turn clockwise or counterclockwise to turn the ship Tempest? I think that was it, yeah that one was pretty cool I thought that's one of my favorites I'm always terrible at stand-up arcade games and I don't know I didn't really focus a whole lot on the stand-up games I was trying to play as much pinball as I could within the time that I had there I'm giving him a thumbs up I should have played more of the arcade games I've always been so bad at them though like whenever I play you or Jason and Pac-Man I'm always by far the worst well we've only been playing that our entire lives yeah I guess that's fair so would you go back next year? yeah I definitely would and I would play a lot more than I played this year do you think uh you've progressed to the point where you might pick up a pinball machine one day i would have to get a house first and i don't see myself buying a house in the near future so ask me again in maybe a few years fair enough i think that would be i don't know they're they're really cool i guess i don't know if this is the right way to phrase it but it'd be a cool novelty item to have around the house or something. You feel that way now. Okay. Anything else you'd like to add? Let me scroll through my notes real quick. I'll just list some of the other games that I've played, which isn't a whole lot. They had an Arabian Nights there, which was cool because I'm used to playing that on my tablet. and the Pinball Arcade app. But I played some of that, and I just struck out big time. I was doing so terrible on the real machine. That's another one with a big magnet in the back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was World Tour that had that spinny thing in the back. Yes, I've never played one. That machine was really loud. It was constantly blasting crazy noises at you. So I don't know if I'd ever like to own one of those. So, well, I'm glad you had a good time, and I'm glad you were able to go. Yeah. Hopefully this isn't your worst episode yet. I couldn't remember a whole lot. I'm sorry I'm not more of an enthusiast. Hey, I'm impressed that I got you out there. I mean, from, you know, knowing nothing about these machines to where you are now. I still feel like I know absolutely nothing but yeah once you have me bring you your first one then oh okay so that's going to happen yep tomorrow that'll be my once I buy a house that'll be my housewarming gift that'd be a good housewarming gift yeah right so yeah well thank you very much for coming on Brent and I will talk to you soon thanks man see you tomorrow I want to thank my guest Brent Am Ryan for coming on the show and I want to thank all of you for listening so thank you for joining me my name again is Nicholas Baldridge you can reach me at and you can listen to us on on Facebook, on Twitter on Instagram you can find me and you can listen to us on our website which is foramusementonly.libsyn.com. Thanks very much for listening, and I'll talk to you next time. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: b93441a8-bce8-4a9b-be80-651088d49b83*