# The Pinball Show Ep 18: JJP Sees No Limit & AP Limits Itself

**Source:** The Pinball Show  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2020-06-15  
**Duration:** 68m 20s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.thepinballnetwork.net/e/the-pinball-show-ep-18-jjp-sees-no-limit-ap-limits-itself/

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## Analysis

Episode 18 of The Pinball Show features news about Jersey Jack Pinball's profitability milestone, optimistic statements from owner Brett Abbas about future innovation, and coverage of American Pinball's Hot Wheels release. Hosts Zach Minney and Dennis Creasel discuss JJP's strategic pivot toward location play and profitability, interpret Abbas's statements as signaling a generational leadership transition, and analyze Hot Wheels as American Pinball's strongest shooting game to date, while expressing skepticism about AP's marketing approach.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Jersey Jack Pinball has achieved 25% year-over-year growth and has been breaking even for well over a year — _Ken Rudberg reporting on Brett Abbas interview in new Jersey Jack Pinball podcast; Abbas stated this directly_
- [HIGH] JJP is in Phase 2/3 transition, merging design and manufacturing teams into one location in Chicago — _Brett Abbas interview quoted in Ken Rudberg's update; Abbas compared company phasing to Tesla model_
- [MEDIUM] Hot Wheels is American Pinball's cleanest code launch to date and best shooting game — _Zach Minney's assessment after playing Hot Wheels; states 'cleanest code at launch to date for American Pinball'_
- [MEDIUM] Standard edition of Wonka was previously the worst-selling model for JJP, but price reduction by $1,000 changed that dynamic — _Dennis discussing JJP's historical pricing strategy; references prior Jack Guarneri interviews_
- [HIGH] Brett Abbas is 30 years old and signaling generational leadership transition at JJP — _Ken Cromwell's interview with Brett Abbas; Abbas's statements interpreted by hosts as deliberate messaging about new era_
- [HIGH] Gary Stern celebrated 75th birthday; described as instrumental in saving the industry in late 1990s/early 2000s — _Craig Bobby's Stern News report; hosts' commentary_
- [MEDIUM] Hot Wheels playfield contains Mickey Mouse-like imagery that appears intentional but unintended — _Zach and Dennis both noticed and were warned by unnamed mutual friend about Mickey Mouse proportions in artwork_
- [MEDIUM] American Pinball's Hot Wheels is prone to score exploitation via stand-up targets in the middle playfield — _Zach's gameplay assessment; describes targets as risk-reward but notes exponential score growth potential_

### Notable Quotes

> "JJP is here to stay. Let's rock and roll baby. We're not in Kansas anymore."
> — **Brett Abbas**, ~39:00
> _Final statement interpreted by hosts as both literal commitment to company stability and potential subtle critique of predecessor era (Wizard of Oz/Jack Guarneri phase)_

> "I'm 30 years old. I'm not going anywhere. We're just getting started."
> — **Brett Abbas**, ~39:30
> _Zach identifies this as paraphrasing his own frequent catchphrase; interpreted as signaling generational confidence and long-term commitment from young ownership_

> "Push the limits. Everything is on the table."
> — **Brett Abbas**, ~33:00
> _JJP's stated design philosophy; Dennis cautions that community expectations may constrain actual limit-pushing_

> "It's not about being the biggest. It's about being the best."
> — **Brett Abbas**, ~37:30
> _Family philosophy communicated by Abbas, contrasts JJP's strategy with larger manufacturers like Stern_

> "The factory is complete."
> — **Brett Abbas**, ~27:00
> _Concrete statement about JJP Chicago facility completion; hosts interpret as sign of imminent game announcement before year-end_

> "If for some reason statistically speaking they hit that additional 25% year growth this year, then we now are looking like we're in the black."
> — **Dennis Creasel**, ~22:00
> _Analysis that one more year of reported growth would push JJP to profitability from break-even_

> "I've been through a lot this weekend with American Pinball. And I just don't feel like talking much about Hot Wheels for reasons."
> — **Zach Minney**, ~47:00
> _Cryptic statement suggesting internal friction or operational concerns at AP; contrasts with otherwise positive game assessment_

> "I don't understand what American Pinball is doing with Hot Wheels. I really – I'm flabbergasted."
> — **Dennis Creasel**, ~49:00
> _Criticism of AP's marketing and content rollout strategy; Dennis expresses confusion about promotional approach_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Zach Minney | person | Co-host of The Pinball Show; owner/operator of Flippin' Out Pinball; distributor and content creator |
| Dennis Creasel | person | Co-host of The Pinball Show; host of Eclectic Gamers podcast; analytical discussion partner |
| Brett Abbas | person | 30-year-old owner of Jersey Jack Pinball; son of family shareholder; interviewed by Ken Cromwell; signaling generational leadership transition |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Premium pinball manufacturer; recently relocated manufacturing facility to Chicago; reports break-even status and 25% YoY growth |
| American Pinball | company | Boutique pinball manufacturer; released Hot Wheels pinball; described as having cleanest code launch and best shooting game to date |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; Gary Stern celebrating 75th birthday; released code updates for Elvira and Stranger Things |
| Ken Cromwell | person | Former Pinball Show alumnus; launched debut Jersey Jack Pinball podcast; interviewed Brett Abbas on future direction |
| Hot Wheels Pinball | game | American Pinball's latest release; flowery design with strong shooting mechanics; theme-related scoring concerns noted |
| Wonka Pinball | game | Jersey Jack Pinball title; strategic price reduction on SE model helped drive profitability turnaround |
| Gary Stern | person | Founder of Stern Pinball; turning 75 years old; credited as pioneer who saved pinball industry in late 1990s/early 2000s |
| Jack Guarneri | person | Co-founder of Jersey Jack Pinball; associated with Wizard of Oz era; appears to be transitioning from primary leadership role |
| Craig Bobby | person | Stern News Correspondent for The Pinball Show; reports on Stern code updates and announcements |
| Kaz | person | American Pinball news correspondent; reported on Hot Wheels production launch and content coverage |
| Ken Rudberg | person | Jersey Jack Pinball news correspondent for The Pinball Show; reported on facility relocation and Abbas interview |
| Michael Grant | person | Interview subject on Pinball Players Podcast about Hot Wheels; likely AP designer/developer |
| Joe Schober | person | Interview subject on Pinball Players Podcast about Hot Wheels; likely AP designer/developer; noted early code had more car spinning |
| Flippin' Out Pinball | company | Pinball arcade, distributor, and retailer owned by Zach Minney; frequently promoted on The Pinball Show |
| Pinball Players Podcast | product | Podcast that interviewed American Pinball developers about Hot Wheels design and code |
| This Week in Pinball | product | Website/publication featuring rules deep-dive article on Hot Wheels by Jeff |
| Dead Flip Pinball | organization | YouTube streamer who covered Hot Wheels gameplay on Saturday |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Jersey Jack Pinball financial turnaround and profitability path, American Pinball Hot Wheels release and gameplay quality, Generational leadership transition at Jersey Jack Pinball
- **Secondary:** Manufacturing facility relocation and operational scaling, Marketing and content distribution strategy for pinball games, Pinball game design philosophy: flow vs. stop-and-go gameplay
- **Mentioned:** Competitive pinball meta and designer stylistics, Stern Pinball code updates and industry positioning

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.58) — Strong positive sentiment toward JJP's profitability claims and Abbas's leadership messaging; cautiously positive about Hot Wheels gameplay quality but tempered by Zach's mysterious discontent with AP operations and Dennis's skepticism about marketing approach; celebratory tone regarding Gary Stern's birthday

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Jersey Jack Pinball reports 25% year-over-year growth, break-even status for over a year, and clear path to profitability (confidence: high) — Brett Abbas direct statement in Ken Cromwell interview; Ken Rudberg's news report summarizing Abbas's claims about financial trajectory
- **[event_signal]** Hot Wheels content campaign includes Straight Down the Middle videos, This Week in Pinball rules deep-dive, Pinball Players Podcast interview, and Dead Flip Pinball stream (confidence: high) — Detailed coverage schedule provided by Kaz correspondent report; multiple media partners coordinating coverage
- **[sentiment_shift]** Dennis cautions that JJP's stated philosophy to 'push the limits' faces practical constraints from community expectations and preferences for stability (confidence: medium) — Dennis: 'you've got to bear in mind that there's a significant, perhaps even a majority stake of the pinball community that does not want to see certain things change'
- **[design_philosophy]** Hot Wheels scoring system prone to exploitation via stand-up targets; scores can grow exponentially and rapidly (confidence: medium) — Zach's assessment: 'it is prone for exploitation...with the stand-up targets in the middle they are risk reward but you can really get that score going up very quickly'
- **[market_signal]** American Pinball executing unusually dispersed content rollout for Hot Wheels (Wednesday deep dive, Friday unboxing/impressions, Saturday stream) creating confusion about strategy (confidence: medium) — Dennis's criticism: 'I don't understand what American Pinball is doing with Hot Wheels. I really – I'm flabbergasted' regarding marketing approach
- **[community_signal]** Zach Minney experiencing unspecified internal friction with American Pinball operations despite positive game assessment (confidence: medium) — Zach's cryptic statement: 'I've been through a lot this weekend with American Pinball. And I just don't feel like talking much about Hot Wheels for reasons' - contrasts with otherwise positive technical assessment
- **[personnel_signal]** Generational leadership transition at Jersey Jack Pinball with 30-year-old Brett Abbas signaling new era replacing Jack Guarneri's Wizard of Oz phase (confidence: high) — Abbas's statements interpreted by hosts as deliberate messaging; 'We're not in Kansas anymore' quote; 'I'm 30 years old, I'm not going anywhere' assertion
- **[product_strategy]** American Pinball Hot Wheels underwent code adjustments between early demo and release to reduce car spinning frequency (confidence: medium) — Joe Schober stated in Pinball Players Podcast interview that early code had excessive car spinning, which was adjusted for final version
- **[product_concern]** Hot Wheels playfield lighting insufficient for dark-room play; Zach suggests Pin Stadium lighting addition would be necessary for personal ownership (confidence: medium) — Zach's gameplay assessment: 'it is very dark' and 'if I kept this pin it would have had some pin stadiums on it that's nearly a requirement'
- **[product_concern]** American Pinball Hot Wheels exhibits unintended Mickey Mouse artwork in playfield that may create IP liability risk (confidence: medium) — Zach and Dennis both noticed Mickey Mouse proportions in playfield artwork; warned by mutual acquaintance; Zach notes 'proportions are perfect'
- **[business_signal]** JJP strategic pivot toward location/operator play through pricing adjustments and operational expansion (confidence: medium) — Abbas stated goal to 'get some market penetration on location pinball'; Wonka SE price reduction by $1,000 changing sales dynamics
- **[technology_signal]** Hot Wheels integrates YouTube show animation content; Zach initially expected this to be 'deal breaker' but ultimately accepted implementation (confidence: medium) — Zach states: 'I even like the YouTube show that they integrated into the animation that I thought was going to be a deal breaker'

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## Transcript

 The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for The Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. Welcome back to the Pinball Show episode. I think we're in episode 18. I'm Zach Minney with your other host, Dennis Creasel from the Eclectic Gamers podcast. One of my best buds. How's it going, Dennis? It's going well. It's been an exciting weekend of work-filled drama. Really? Yeah, I had to work Saturday. How dare they? Well, it was like, hey, we think you should submit and get some money. Oh, what's the deadline? Monday. Well, I guess I'm working Saturday. that's horrible did you at least go in wearing some shorts and some thongs I didn't have to go in it was from home I needed to write a technical proposal and a cost proposal and it's like I don't know if this person is working Sunday or not because they're working on their work plan and they wanted to include me so I'm very appreciative I hadn't planned on writing technical proposals on Saturday afternoon but I got it done before I figured you had grass shavings on your shins. You had your fedora on because you were mowing the grass. And you had to go in and you're like, dag nabbit. I mowed on Thursday over lunch because it wasn't humid. It was only 90 degrees, but it wasn't humid. It was my last chance before it was going to get too sticky. Did you mow in between working on Thursday? Yeah, I mowed from noon to 1. I mowed. So you worked, stopped to take a lunch to mow your grass, and then you proceeded to work again. Yeah, that's what I normally do. That sounds like a nightmare. I hate mowing on the weekend, though. I feel like I'm wasting an hour. That could be spent sleeping. Oh, man. That's rough, buddy. I'm so sorry to hear that. I had an interesting weekend as well. Did you? I sure did. Yeah, we were busy all weekend. Greg and I did some promotional stuff for American Pinball. Oh, that's nice. That was a 24-hour marathon to get that. We'll talk about it later. to get it recorded, to get it edited, and to get it released and all the crap that went into that. So that's what mostly I was doing this weekend. I've been playing some Hot Wheels now. I have a Rick and Morty now, but I haven't unboxed it yet. Oh, it came. You've been waiting with bated breath. Yeah, it came, and I was like, well, there's my f***ing Rick and Morty. But I haven't even had the time to unbox it yet. Really? That busy? turtle sales yeah just paperwork flipping out stuff psych stuff hot wheel stuff yeah and i you know what at this point i don't know what i'm going to do with that brick and morty i don't know you were so excited i was but there's some things about it that doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy so i don't know what to do with it could you own a game that every time you played you would part of you would be like, what could you? I don't know. That was a weird sound effect. So I'll go with no, I couldn't. It wasn't the good kind of, it was like the, almost like somebody flicked one of your testicles once every game. Oh, that's extreme. Yeah. That's what it would feel like for me. So, I don't know. Well, no, then no. I probably would not own a game. And that's why I hadn't opened it yet. Wow. You want to see if the correspondents have their testicles flicked in this week's rundown of the news. I always love to hear from the correspondent, Zach. Always. Oh, especially Craig? Well, I sometimes like to hear from the correspondent, Zach. Sometimes. Oh, you heard from this last week. Now you hear him twice a week. Yes. What would you say? His stock is trending up. That's what he would say. Oh, wow. You heard it here, ladies and gentlemen. It's time for TPN Industry News. Coders, take the wheel, and big-time birthday celebrations at Stern. Hey, everyone, Craig here again, your pinball show, Stern News Correspondent. Well, hot on the heels of their new prehistoric Jurassic Park topper and retro Stranger Things shooter knob, Stern coders have come roaring on back and offered up not one, but two new code updates for their owners. The first is for the highly sought-after Elvira's House of Horrors v. .96, and the second is for Zach Manny's favorite and highly underrated Stranger Things at v. .94. Both new codes feature game enhancements, additional polish, game adjustments, and bug fixes, as these two games go ever closer to the code completion utopia. And of course, we'd be remiss if we didn't say a big happy 75th birthday to Stern Pinball's founding father, Gary Stern, from all the hard-working correspondents, podcasters, streamers, and other content providers here at TPN. Happy birthday, Gary. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side. Hey, this is Kaz with an American Pinball update. Hot Wheels is now in full production there's a few ways to check out some new content the Pinball Players Podcast interviewed Michael Grant and Joe Schober go check out that interview there's also two new straight down the middle videos with Zach and Greg they are some fun, quick, entertaining videos, one of them has an unboxing and first look, and a second video with first impressions, looks like they had a great time filming and a lot of fun playing Hot Wheels also there's a This Week in Pinball article by Jeff is a deep dive that goes over the rules and features and much more details about Hot Wheels, so check that out on the TWiP website. Also, check out all the streams that are happening with Hot Wheels, and if you want one, just call Zach. Bye, bye, bye! For American Pinball, this is Brian Kosner. Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. With Jersey Jack Pinball's manufacturing facility starting to settle into its new location in Chicago, the question is, how soon can they be up and running? In reading some of the discussions about this, it sounds like it's relatively easy to move a pinball line. In fact, some of the manufacturers currently have mobile workstations for the employees on carts, and there's no heavy manufacturing involved, and really all the parts are ordered in and shipped and really just need to be put together. The question is more about how are they going to hire up to the numbers that they need to get this line functioning. The pinball show alumnus Ken Cromwell released his debut edition of the Jersey Jack Pinball podcast this last Friday. In it, he interviewed Jersey Jack Pinball owner Brett Abbas about the future of Jersey Jack Pinball, the road to profitability, and the never-produced Rush Hour pinball machine. Ken said that they're in full-on hiring mode at Jersey Jack Pinball and that the next release is, quote, right around the corner. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg. Yeah, I'm sure he'll love that. Okay, kid. I listened to your inaugural podcast. It sounded like you had your boss on there. I wonder if Chromie was scared. Yes, I'm sure I heard. I only heard one thing here. uh screw you kid crumb well leaving the pinball show i didn't realize that the jjp owner was so young yeah he was really young 30 year old brett abbott's his father is part owner as well i would assume i don't know but i assume jack granieri and family owned some as well i believe that he's an He's an owner. Yes. I believe the Abbas's are the majority owner? Question mark? I'll have to confirm that, but I believe they are the majority ownership since Hobbit. But he talked about a lot. And this interview was so well done, Dennis, in my opinion, by Ken Cromwell. It was great hearing our friend back on the airwaves better than ever. And it was a strong interview and a strong take from the owner, Brett Abbas. How did you feel about it overall? I mean, I enjoyed it. I thought it was pretty informative. Very much so. They talked about the origin story of Brett Abbas and family, you know, getting into pinball, 1998, buying an X-Files Neiman Marcus edition. That's how you know you've got money. No shit. You actually are buying from Neiman Marcus. How bourgeois, Dennis, would be the Neiman Marcus? He said it wasn't much. It was just a little sign on the top. But that's where they met Jack Granary. Hmm. Yeah. At the Neiman Marcus? I guess Jack was probably one that sold them. Oh, I was here buying scarves. Oh, I was interested in the pinball machine. Oh, dear Lord. I sell them. Really? I know I gave them both the same voice. Sorry, my impressions only go so far. I am no more Marc Silk. I like the bourgeois kind of speak there. That was nice. Now, before they got into Jersey Jack Pinball and ownership, they have a lot of friends, a lot of friends in Hollywood, and just a lot of celebrity friends, and they thought making a Rush Hour pinball machine would have been a good idea. What do you think, Dennis? Actually, especially at the time, yes. That was a huge series of movies. I completely agree with you. And I think maybe, just maybe, Rush Hour wouldn't be a horrible theme now compared to some of the themes that these manufacturers choose. Where is he? Who got killed, man? Connor! Who died, Lee? You! Detective, you? Not you, you! Who? You! Who? Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth? Don't nobody understand the words that are coming out of your mouth, man. I would take a rush hour pin over an Oktoberfest any day. The film still kind of holds up. It's been such a long time since I've seen it. The only thing I really remember, the first one, of course, sticks the most with me. And then, oh, gosh, I feel so bad because I can't remember the actor's name right now who played the villain in the second one. Oh, I knew because he was the star of The Last Emperor. You know, the last picture, I think, from 89. But I don't know what that actor's name is. Yeah, one of my favorite films about China. do you have a list of favorite films about i love china i think it's fascinating maybe but not like asians we never panic yeah right when godzilla's coming y'all be tripping i've seen the movie i think rush hour would have been kind of cool uh he did talk about debunking some of the myths that jersey jack pinball loses money over and over and over again he did say there has been a 25 percent year after year growth uh for the past couple of years and they have been breaking even for well over a year and they are on a clear path to profitability at jersey jack pinball now is that is that a success dennis or are you thinking that's like well good for you you're not blowing money and draining money here yeah in a way i guess it's sort of both oh john lone That's the name. John Lund. Okay. Sorry about that. No, you're fine. Yeah. No, in terms of – I mean, okay, so clearly what everyone would have – and I'm sure they internally would have wanted to be able to say is that they're turning a profit. Yes. But that they're seeing growth is a positive sign and that they've been breaking even, which he said well over a year now. So this clearly, to me, says that as of the strategy they employed with Wonka, that got them to break even status. And what did we see? We saw a lot of dramatic shifts, the willingness to remove a notable mech from the machine and sell those standard editions at a price point that is significantly less than they were before. $1,000 less. Yeah, and remember in the prior ones, I know there have been, I think, multiple interviews with Jack Guarnieri where he said that the standard editions historically were the worst selling model. They were the rarest, weren't they? Yeah, but fiscally, that would make no sense. Your cheapest model should be the one you sell the most of, right? I mean, I don't imagine that Stern Pinball is selling more LEs than they do pros. They do not. So in that regard, I think that's a very – if they're breaking even, that means that they're at a point where they're able to sustain. Now, obviously, they want to be able to move into a profitability realm. That's important even to private businesses, investors, but that they've gotten to the point where they're no longer bleeding money. I think is a very significant positive thing for their ability to endure in this business. Yeah, and if for some reason, statistically speaking, they hit that additional 25% year growth this year, then we now are looking like we're in the black. We now are looking like we're making some money. And with the rumors and little buzz going around about the potential upcoming Eric Meunier game, we might just see that. I think Wonka did turn the page for them in a lot of ways, and it sure as hell was a better return for them likely over the long term than dialed in. Or even pirates, because hey, people love it now, but they didn't sell as many. He did say the factory is complete. Quote, the factory is complete. And then he talked about different phases. And he compared the company in phasing to Tesla, which he is a shareholder of. He talked about phase one being Wizard of Oz and Hobbit. Phase two being dialed in. adding Pat Lawler, doing a complete cabinet redesign, and upgrading the electronics components within their system. They consider themselves still in phase two, but merging and starting phase three, entering that phase as they're merging the design and manufacturing teams into one location, getting some great titles in the pipeline, and expanding the company, making the company bigger now. Like with hiring Ken. Yeah, like with hiring Ken. I thought he did a good job for someone like me who's not familiar with manufacturing to explain the value of being able to have the designers actually just walk to the manufacturing floor and help explain how to put together the games to the workers. That really rung true to me as well. I like the transparency of them saying, we're laying it all in line. Here's what we're doing. We're not going to lie to you and say we've been making money. He's being transparent here. The factory is complete. That is nice. It sounds like we're going to get a new game here sooner than later, I would say, before the end of the year for sure. Tennessee is also an investor in Epic Games, which you know is some of the creators of Fortnite. Is that like a little hey? Just throwing that out there. Well, now, let's be – Fortnite, as I'm sure your son will tell you, is a behemoth of a game. They almost lucked into the success with that one, though. But Epic has done a lot of the Gears of War franchise as one. I'm more familiar with Epic. Good point. That's a hell of a lot prettier game than Fortnite. Oh, strong take. If you think chainsawing a bunch of locusts is pretty, absolutely. I'm just talking about it from a graphics perspective. I'm not building ramps out of nowhere and going to concerts and shit. Sorry, I still don't get the concept. Hey, some people love those. It's a different world. It's a different world. If you could have a live concert in a pinball machine, you would be geeking out. No, I wouldn't. You would. Unless I was up on stage. Especially if it was Guns N Roses Wink wink Oh Wink Now they also said that they are doing a lot going forward to get some market penetration on location pinball They're looking to do some things to boost JJP location play. Do you think we'll see that with their next release? I think so. I think given the success that they've found, I don't know broadly how much more operator penetration they've seen with the Willy Wonkas, thanks to the pricing change on the SEs. Anecdotally, I've seen operators start to consider them more than I felt I did on prior games because they are more affordable now. Okay, yeah, I agree. So I'd like to see it. He also had a couple quotes here I found interesting. He said, quote, push the limits. Everything is on the table, end quote. So they're really going for this innovation. They're really going for this. We're going to stand out by being the one company that says we're going to try to do what we want to do, what the designers really want to do, what those creators have always dreamed of. We're going to try to push those limits. Who doesn't love a pinball company saying that? Now, we do know that the limits are money. I mean, you know, they say that. It's not just money, though, Zach. Time. It's not just time. You need to think more. You've got to be like me, Zach. You've got to think more negative. Oh, God, it feels gross. Everything is on the table. So are we talking changing the size of the pinball? No. You see, there are limits. We've done that before. Lower play fitness sucks. My only point, Zach, is as great as it is to say push the limits, and I like people to think very expansively, you've got to bear in mind that there's a significant, perhaps even a majority stake of the pinball community that does not want to see certain things change. There are certain things. One might argue that part of the challenge with Multimorphics P3 platform, platform which is still physical pinball is that it was too much change for some people there's a lot a lot of limit pushing there there there is but did it push too hard to be successful i'm just waiting for my pachinko size pinball pinball it's called monster's lower playfield but imagine that on an entire regular size playfield real estate for days days zach no Dennis, I felt as if Brett was going to bust into song and sing. Take it to the limit one more time. Take it to the limit. Take it. Yeah, damn it. Take it to the limit one more time. I do so well not singing along. I hate the Eagles. Yeah, that was what got me. I was like, why are you doing the Eagles song? You hate them. I don't like the Eagles. I think it's an Eagles song. Yep. Eagles. One of these nights. 1975. I'm pretty sure because I knew it. Oh, God. Sorry, listener. Brett also said, it's not about being the biggest. It's about being the best. That's what his father always taught him. Another little poke. We've got to be the best. We don't need to be the biggest. He also said, J.J. Pierce. Yeah, my dad said the same thing. First or last. Wait, no. That wasn't my dad. It was someone else's dad. Shake and bite. shake it before you bake it before the interview ended dennis he said something that almost gave me chills he said quote jjp is here to stay let's rock and roll baby we're not in kansas anymore that's so much meaning hate that when we hear that i wrote to kim cromwell and said we don't need to hear about kansas in your podcast about how you're not in kansas anymore I think Ken wrote me back and said, I think he was doing a Wizard of Oz reference there. And I said, I know. And all Kansans are sick of it because it's the only thing we're known for. We can look at this statement. Sorry, I'm going to get all psychological. We can look at this a little deeper in our interpretations. On the surface, it seems fun and witty. Rock and roll, baby. We're not in Kansas anymore. Aw, he's fun and youthful. We can also take it to the step one analysis. What you said, we're not in Kansas anymore. wizard of oz reference which would also be a reference to the beginning of the statement let's rock and roll baby sure sure a little little hint dropping maybe a little hint dropping a little guns and roses possibly you could go this is this is next level shit y'all you can go that deeper interpretation and this may or may not be true but it feels like what what what was the wizard of Oz associated with that pinball machine? The house. I'm looking for... It was the start of Jersey Jack pinball. The face of Jack Guarnieri going to all of the shows. This was the theme that he started the company with. Didn't include the Abbas's, right? We're not there anymore, Dennis. Let's rock and roll, baby. It's the Brett Abbas show now. Huh? I'm rock and roll. He was a little old school black and white Kansas Wizard of Oz. He said himself when he was poking at the industry saying, times have changed. It's time for the new guard to step in. Let this be a message to every pinhead out there. It's game on. Maybe I'm interpreting this wrong. I don't know. I don't know. But Dennis Creasel, I'm going to pitch this to you. One of the last statements one of the owners of JJP, Brett Avis, said in that interview was this. And he actually stole this from me, unfortunately. Quote, I'm 30 years old. I'm not going anywhere. We're just getting started. Ooh. Ooh. Somebody's ready. Are you flipping out? Those are my lines, dude. Those are my lines. Here comes Seinfeld. I've said it a hundred times. I'm not going anywhere. Just getting started. Come on, Brett. It's okay. Fly me on your private jet and we'll be good. Well, you might be his second favorite distributor, so there's that. You know what? I'd take it. I would take it. That'd be good. Oh, man. Do you think they have a private jet? I bet they do. Oh, Brett probably does, right? Can't you get those at Neiman Marcus? Just says Neiman Marcus really big over the side of it. I'll tell you what. Well, he could probably afford to repaint it. I want to wish the happiest of birthdays to Gary Stern. He turned 75 years old. Happy birthday. 75 years old. What a pioneer and just one of the pinball pioneers. Just truly an unbelievable force when it comes to pinball. My opinion helped save the entire industry. In the late 1990s, early 2000s. I think most people would agree with you. 2008, it went down. So, happiest of birthdays. I've always wanted to party with Gary. I've had some dreams. Gary had a little bit. But I always wanted to party with Gary. I think that what Brett just did is surpass Gary Stern on my list of one to party with. Brett Abbott. That's just because you want to party on the Neiman Marcus chat. I want to party on the Neiman Marcus jet in Vegas. Like a G6. Me and Abbas, Lil' Cromwell's the wingman. We got Din Din up on the stage. Oh, Dennis, would you go party with Brett Abbas on a private Neiman Marcus jet all the way into Santa Cruz? No. No? What? No. Why not? I don't go to Santa Cruz, Zach. Oh, my God. Look. Everyone has a limit, and you've found mine. We land, we walk down the steps of this private jet. We're all wearing our Miami Vice gear, right? We're in Miami now. We're in Miami. And all of a sudden you hear, All alone at the end of the evening. And the bright lights are fading too. Can't you see us just rocking out to the little heels, baby? Huh? That'd be good. just saying just saying happy birthday gear bear but uh i don't know i want to party with brett it's probably not any part of you neither am i who am i fucking kidding let's talk about a different company enough jjp let's talk about a company called american pinball they rolled out again of hot wheels pinball machine to different media articles video stream did you see any of This coverage, this Wednesday to Saturday. Any thoughts about the Hot Wheels game now that you've seen it a little closer in high def? Well, I mean, it's flowier than I would have initially thought, I suppose. But, I mean, here's the thing, Zach. I saw gameplay of this months ago. Well, you do make a point there. Well, I mean, it was shot on like a potato camera. Potato cam live. Well, yeah. I mean there were attendees in New Orleans who filmed it. So I mean the car doesn't spin around as much as I remember it doing, but I believe I heard an interview I think on the Pinball Players podcast where Joe Schober said, oh, yeah, we had adjusted – that was early code. So the car was spinning all the time there, but that wasn't the intention ultimately. So yeah, it seemed like a really very high flow game. I can't say that this is new to me, but – and it makes sense for the theme. But Balsa really mixes up his designs. To me, he's not – some people are like they're sort of a stop-and-go style, point-and-shoot method. That's sort of what I associate Lawler with or Jon Norris for example. and then others are like always flow all the time like Steve Ritchie john borg's a very flow-based designer uh and but balser will do whatever he switches it up yeah yeah no he's very he like doesn't seem to favor a particular style of gameplay i think he except for that center post between the flippers well yeah but steve kirk was like that too yeah but kirk he's bounced over i like that well yes steve kirk was very uh oriented towards competitive play like mentally He wanted all games to be really good for competitive purposes. One of the earliest designers to care about competitive pinball. But you're not here for a history lesson. Maybe standardizing pinball machines for competitive play? Let's not go into that. You know what? Maybe I promote Kirky. Maybe Meteor can be the layout of competition pin number six. You could just use Meteor in that case, right? No, you can't. I don't think you're going to get a DMCA strike for streaming Meteor. I don't care if you did or not. I want them all unified. All the art is going to be somewhat a collection of artwork. It's going to be one piece. So anyway, Hot Wheels. There were cars. There's a Mickey Mouse in the play field. Can we talk about the Mickey Mouse logo? Is Disney going to go after him? One of our friends that we know, did he text you that? Yeah, I know. Yes. Me too. He's like, I can't stop looking. He couldn't stop seeing it. And then when I saw it, I couldn't stop seeing it either. I couldn't either because I was like, damn it, the proportions are perfect. It is. It looks like Mickey Mouse. It's such a symmetrical – it's the mouse. I felt bad. Hi. I actually thought at first that there was going to be like one hidden – like someone actually – like the artist actually painted Mickey Mouse under a sling or something. I will say as a recent player of Hot Wheels – Oh, you have a copy, don't you? It's sitting to my left as I'm looking right now. Got to go fast. So vroom, vroom. So – That was a Sonic reference, Zach. Hey, there's a homebrew being worked on of Sonic. Looks interesting too. Steven Bowden shares a lot of images of it. Well, I think Steven Bowden's – he's a fan of the Sonic. Okay, so I've been through a lot this weekend with American Pinball. And I just don't feel like talking much about Hot Wheels for reasons. so I'm not going to say much but I will say that it is a really well shooting pin it's a lot of fun it's bright it looks good so there are a lot of positives to this pin I don't think anybody can argue that this pin it's a good shooter I love the kickback I'm a sucker for a kickback I like the left orbit to a right ramp listeners you guys know I'm a sucker for that there's a lot of things that I love, love, love about this. The right pathway as well as the little scoop in there that leads back into... Look, it's a really, really fun pin to shoot. I like the shaker motor integration. Hell, I even like the YouTube show that they integrated into the animation that I thought was going to be a deal breaker. I did. I thought it was going to be a deal breaker. And you guys can hear some of my first impressions on the street in the middle video. So I don't... That's about as far as I go. the downsides I will say that it is super colorful which good on them they did some really creative things with lighting on the other hand it is very dark think Jersey Jack pinball if I kept this pin it's currently for sale but if I kept this pin it would have uh had some pin stadiums on it that's not a plug for pin stadium that is nearly a requirement in my opinion from some additional lighting if you play with the lights off that's a downside another downside for me dennis was the theme still doesn't speak to me um stranger things is a cool theme jurassic park is a cool theme rick and morty is a cool theme hot wheels just and i think the scoring may have some some work to do it is prone for exploitation i believe um with the stand-up targets in the middle they are risk reward but you can really get that score going up very quickly and and to an exponential degree i like the little touches in the game but there's some downsides to it as well but that's kind of where i'm at on uh hot wheels pinball and they were they're talking about this code not being as deep as octoberfest houdini i it's still pretty deep i don't see there being a big issue there there's a lot of tasks that you got to get to get to the big wizard mode they're different tasks rather than just modes. I appreciate that. So I think overall, this is their best shooting game. It will likely be their best selling game. It is maybe the cleanest code. It's the cleanest code at launch to date for American Pinball. So they are going in the forward direction when it comes to production. But shall we talk about their marketing and their communication patterns and how they're getting their products out to the world, Dennis? Probably because – and I'm – as I think I've said ad nauseum on any show I'm ever on, I don't know anything about marketing. I'm not a marketing guy. I don't work for private sector companies. I only know what does and doesn't work for me and what does and doesn't make logical sense to me. I play one on the radio. Well, sure. But you have a business. So you have to do promotion stuff. I don't know if the listeners know this, but sometimes on the pinball show, you promote flipping out pinball. Did you know that? Usually about once or twice a show. You might stick a plug in. So you have a product or products that you promote to try and sell because that's a business that you are in. I don't understand what American Pinball is doing with Hot Wheels. I really – I'm flabbergasted because like – What do you mean? Well, you mentioned the Straight Down the Middle video a little bit ago. You actually have two videos out, right? You have like an unboxing video and you have a first impressions video? Yes. Wednesday, we got the rollout of the This Week in Pinball deep dive. Friday, we had the Straight Down the Middle videos of an unboxing first look and a first impressions. And then Saturday, we had the stream by Dead Flip pinball streaming. That was kind of the media rollout. Then they had some podcasts with some of the coders and the marketing people. So on Friday, I saw the unboxing video come out, and you had this, which I thought was actually a fairly clever green screen thing where you and Greg were in a van on a track or something. Thanks. Was that the unboxing video? A lot of fun, a lot of work, yes. It was pretty goofy especially because as you may not know I listen to all your videos at 1 So if Greg thought his voice was high pitched with what you did in the editing yeah you should have heard my version of it where he was full alvin and the chipmunks but josh coogler helped shrink us to the size of a hot wheel so that we could ride home on an orange track and get there really fast doing loop-de-loops and stuff i guess it was memorable it was a it was a memorable little you know hokey promo idea i had to pause it because i had a coronavirus webinar to do and then thanks corona yeah well i i have them practically every day so after that i went to click resume and it said that the video was now taken down yep and then i saw i went to your channel because i thought this is weird let me check the channel and there i saw the first impressions video so i watched that okay and then i saw later in the day you had the unboxing video backup like the part I saw was all the same. So then I went through and I watched that. So, and I saw online the discussion. I saw that either you or Greg, I don't remember which one, had noted that American Pinball had given you permission to put out the videos, but then they asked you to take down the unboxing video to make some edits to it, I guess regarding a part that I hadn't seen because everything I saw was the same. And then you put out the video back on the same day. and the whole time I'm sitting as an outsider and I'm like this game was shown months ago what the hell is going on yeah I felt the same way there's nothing this sounds more harsh than it there's no skin off my back I guess one way or another but I'm like this doesn't make any sense to me like there's nothing unique here I already saw the game the art and the gameplay in New Orleans numerous videos yeah yeah so and yeah they weren't They weren't well shot. It's amateur shooting on the fly basically. But like there's no reveal here. The game already got revealed under very unfortunate circumstances because we never got to be hands-on at Texas or anything with it, which is when I was going to have a chance to play it. And that's disappointing. But I'm like, shouldn't at this point, now that the production is starting back up, don't you want to just push out as much media as you can? I mean I don't know. I'm a nonprofit guy. But when I want people to know about work I'm doing, I just kind of like shove it out there so everyone can see. I just – I didn't get it. I thought it was weird, and I'm sure I'm missing something because I don't know what went out of the video. I didn't see what went out of the video or not. But I'm like we already know the price. We know the art. We know the game. We've heard about the rules. I heard interviews on the Pinball Players podcast already about – I was like I don't understand. I'm just really confused. I will say that Greg and I were straight down the middle. We are still confused as well as to the decision to ask us to pull that video. I know what they told us the reasoning was, but the video we created was a lot of fun, and it was blowing up, Dennis. Like, people were watching it. They were like, let's all agree, kind of a dead product here in this Hot Wheels. Nobody was talking about it. We had Ninja Turtles coming out. We've got the possible Guns N' Roses come out. This is the dead product. And we were able to, because Greg was really excited about this game. Me, eh, not so much. But it turned me as well, because it's a fun game. So there was a lot of excitement, comments in the YouTube, just boom, boom, boom, boom. People were loving it. It changed the entire narrative. and an hour in to be getting that type of attention that a pair American pinball has never received before and to be called and texted and told, pull the video immediately, pull it. I'm like, what in the hell? What, what, what, why would you pull this? What is wrong with you? So, uh, and I want to clear up a little bit, just real quick, clear up. Cause a lot of people are like, well, why did you guys, was your video messed up? And I don't want people to think it was us. We didn't mess it up or anything. We were asked to take it down. So after discussion, we respectfully, we didn't have to take it down, but respectfully, we took it down. Made the edits, and we chose to put it back up. But we'd been working with American Pinball since game one. Houdini came out. We were there to help promote it because we liked it, and we wanted to support a new company. Game two, we were there again. Game three, Hot Wheels, we were asked last year to do all of the marketing, to do the promo, to do the stream, to do the video. We were asked to do all of it. We wanted to focus on what our strong suit was, so we said, you know what? We're not crazy about the idea of streaming it at TPF. There's other people that do that. We like doing the video stuff and the promo stuff. A month ago, they told me they were doing the promo stuff. No need for that, but they wanted us to do the videos that we do so well. I haven't seen any promo videos come out, though. Did I miss them? That's the other thing. Well, I'm just saying. I follow their page. We were told they were doing a promo. They didn't need it. And then maybe three days before all this stuff aired, they called us, and they were like, Hey, do you think you could come up here immediately and do a promo video? And we were like, Guys, no, no, no, no. That's not how this works. No, thank you. So keep in mind, people, we're not being rude. It's just we don't get paid for doing it. So I can't reschedule patients and lose my living just to drop everything, drive six hours to Chicago. I can't do that. We couldn't do that, which left them, I guess, doing their own promo. Still didn't see it. It's out there somewhere. It's just waiting to be released. So we tried to help. We agreed they were going to send us a game early so that we can get it out there. and do some promotional video for it. That would be us doing an unboxing and whatever we've seen fit. We thought a first impressions would be fun since we both liked the game. So we did that. Within 24 hours, we were able to receive that game. We were able to film the hell out of that game. Getting Greg out of his house isn't an easy task, people. We were able to do some green screen, some fun stuff, right? It's amateur hour, but it's still fun. And I edited the hell out of that. I seen 4am that night edited it so that I could get I had a Rick and Morty in my house that could have been unboxed I wanted to get this out there for people get it out there and apparently our communication was different because I was contacted by a couple people from American Pinball asking me to pull it because it went against their idea of what gameplay was and what gameplay wasn't our agreement was do what you guys need to do blah blah blah the day of shipping they contact whoa that deal's off we need zero gameplay okay that's not what we agreed on and i don't know how we're going to do a video without showing how ramps work and bucks work but so i contacted my buddy josh kugler he said yeah put some gameplay in there put a couple minutes in there so i tried to stay away from doing anything that the stream was doing overhead i pulled up my coral d'Python Anghelo rig and really showed two minutes but that would have taken away from what the stream was going to try to do i respected the company enough not to do that. So just put in some belly button cam is what I call it. Just to show it's not showing the screen. You don't know what the rules are doing. You don't know any of that. It's just showing how the ball works, the path, the mechanisms. That's what we're showing off. We're doing an unboxing. We're giving a first look, right? They took offense to that. They said because, I won't say the name, but somebody was unhappy and some of the team was unhappy as well. But I don't understand why. I don't get it either. I'm not asking you to say. I'm just, from my perspective. Somebody wasn't happy that there was gameplay in there. That's all I know. And by that, we mean a ball rolling around on a play field. They mean their idea of gameplay. And then they said LCD screen was gameplay, too. And I said, but no, what? No, guys, LCD screen is not gameplay. I tried to explain to the marketing guy, that's not gameplay. He's like, well, nobody's seen that yet. I'm like, well, no shit. That's why I'm showing it. So the marketing guy saw the video and didn't like what you did. No, that's the other problem. he asked me to take it down uh but then also said after that he said he hadn't seen the video yet and i was like what wait wait wait you got what are you doing american pinball this is a video that is helping your company in a much needed way you're asking me to take it down but you didn't have the decency to see it yourself you're basing it off of somebody else what so i was a bit frustrated to say the very least and put off quite frankly because Because we worked hard on that, and we were excited, and people were able to see the game in a way that maybe they wouldn't have been able to see it. And we didn't get any shares on the social media. They were sharing the clip. They were sharing the streamer. Zero. Nothing. What have we done wrong here? And I don't see it anymore. I'm a bit frustrated. I remember another person in pinball contacted me on Friday and told me that American Pinball had a social media post, which I'm assuming – on Facebook. And I'm assuming it was supposed to be to clarify the issue because a lot of people did see your video that was taken down and then saw the issue that it was their request that you take it down. And so they were responding, but they didn't – I don't know. So my take was it sort of threw you under the bus. Yeah, it didn't feel good. Well, it didn't even name straight down the middle. It was speaking in this weird, vague – and I don't see it anymore, so maybe they deleted the post. But it was a weird, vague thing. And then as of – behind the curtain, we're recording on Sunday morning for this Monday show. So I don't see anywhere that they've shared either of the videos that you have up that they're good with. So again, just like from – and I'm not a marketing person, but from a promotional standpoint, I don't get it. It looks like a mix of not – because I'm on it. I don't like to be mean, but I try and be honest. This looks like a mix of not knowing what you're doing combined with unprofessionalism. I don't understand it. But whatever this was, it sounds like multiple people were saying different things. So that company needs to get its act together in terms of communication if they're working with members of the hobby to help – I mean I thought the goal was to sell Hot Wheels. I thought so too. Okay. Well, if this isn't how you do it, that's my take. Look, I truly – when I say this, I don't want to be mixed up in this shit. I just want to create content. I want to play pinball. I understand. I understand. So when I do, I feel like I'm always in it. But truly, I'm uncovering the curtain a little bit for the listener because I don't think you're going to get this elsewhere. Just so that you can hear, this is my platform. Everybody else has their platform. For example, listening to Jack Danger stream the day before his reveal stream for this Hot Wheels. And he opens up saying some misinformation. And that's hurtful. It sucks. When he's like, oh, they jumped the gun. They released videos they were not supposed to. That's just a false statement. we were allowed to release the videos on friday we were asked to do the videos for them and we did it the only thing we got was hey drop the first video like pull it down and we're like oh so there's no i don't know it just it didn't feel good we still don't know really what we did wrong and um yeah that's so we've been trying to promote it to show people you know um well but now did they reach out to either you or greg and apologize uh the marketer said he's he was apologetic for the way this all turned out but wanted me to then wait until the stream to then reveal the video with the full quote-unquote gameplay and i said no i think we're good um but yeah it's just so it's not fun in media sometimes but you guys can kind of see why we get frustrated sometimes when we're trying to help and yeah well this makes me glad that i don't do stuff working with companies because like if this is the i don't know if it's like a game or what but i i don't i don't work this way i don't get it either i turn on their official stream and i'm banned from the stream and i'm like well now i can't even talk to customers and take orders like they had me pull a video that was helping them and then i can't i can't talk to customers on the stream because I'm banned again. I didn't make any comments in the stream. I didn't say anything. It was just already banned before I began. Okay. Well, okay. All I can say is watching what they did, what they shared, what they've done on their social media, I don't think American Pinball went about this the right way. I think they realized. I think they did not help their sales as much as they hoped to. That would be my – and I think that's – it would be a fascinating topic to do at some point. But I really question what a lot of pinball companies do in terms of exposure and their strategies that they employ because I just don't get what their goal exactly is. I assume it's to broaden and sell more pinball machines, but I don't think – there are some good ideas in this mix here. Like going and having Deadflip come in and do a live stream makes sense to me. Having promo videos makes sense to me. All this makes sense, but it's like – I don't understand. If I'm being fair here, if I'm American Pinball, I don't know how much I want the official Stern revealer and ambassador to come into my – I'm a little bit more distant when it comes to business and competition. I don't want that. But, yeah, a streamer, having like a multifaceted media approach just for the small niche pinball, I'd be going for the IGNs and stuff too. I think Stern does it very well. But I don't get a lot of this. I never will. And so that's me being transparent and being honest with you guys, whether or not, whether or not, you know, people, people probably won't like it. Some people appreciate it, but it just, it's the story. It almost makes me Dennis. Think of, think of the song. You can't hide your blind eyes. And your smiles, the thin blue skies. That's right. I'm a man, you realize. Dennis, for some of these people, there ain't no way to hide your lion eyes. Woo! Sturm Pinball releases some new code for Elvira and Stranger Things. Did you see that? Nope. Oh, Elvira's now up to .96 with a lot of additional video and audio, cleaning up their Director's Cut Wizard mode, a ray gun implementation that we could spend an entire podcast talking about. That's a really cool feature. Go check that out. And they add a deadhead, a zombie deadhead, as well as Stranger Things getting an update. This update is now up to .94. And let me tell you, Dennis, it includes a bullshit mode, some bullshit speech, bullshit logic to avoid overlapping other bullshit. It includes bullshit artwork, bullshit display effects, bullshit music, and bullshit scoring. Hashtag bullshit. Wow, you finally aligned your view of Stranger Things with the rest of the community. No! I love this game. No, I love this game. This is... Well, why do you keep saying bullshit? Because that's what it is. You see, they've added a mode that is the bullshit mode. It's when the kids throughout the series are always saying, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I haven't seen the show, so I didn't know what you were talking about. Oh, that's right. That's right. 2014 called. They want you back. Well, American Pinball called and they don't want you back. It's bullshit. It's not bullshit. Bullshit. Oh, it's not bullshit. No, you. You're bullshit. What? You're pretending like everything's okay. You know, like we didn't kill Barb. But no, the bullshit mode in that game, so that's what it was. It was just full implementation of an additional mode that's a lot of fun it sounds like. I have an update of mine, I'm gonna check mine out. And it pains me to report on this, but a founder and former president of Papa, Steve Epstein, or Steven to some of you passed away this past weekend He was a pioneer in competitive pinball and this loss is really gonna echo through the entire industry I didn have the pleasure of ever meeting Steve or never deep enough in the competitive scene Dennis where I know a lot about his background But I know that just shows how big he was for pinball, that even I, as a faraway hobbyist and non-competitive player, have heard many stories about Mr. Epstein. what they call the Epstein Cup for example for the Papa it's named for him I think Broadway Arcade I think it was his big arcade in New York City but he's most known nowadays amongst the competitive scene just because of all the work with the founding of the Professional and Amateur Pinball Association or Papa absolutely, he'll be missed, he was one of the big ones I do this with the most respect that I can in pinball, Dennis, when I say that trending up this week in the pinball market trends is Steve Epstein. That's almost like I don't have much to give in this pinball world, but that's an honor. The pinball market trends are so close to me. That is an honor. I hope everybody here is truly trending up for the rest of my pinball career is Steve Epstein. Let's jump further into pinball market trends. And this week, us tuning up is Hot Wheels. That wasn't bad, right? Didn't have to get royalty-free audio for that. I had someone tell me they thought the spinner sounds like a fart. It doesn't. And I said that makes sense because you have to hit the gas. Hey. I'm weaving gold here. I'm leaving go no my quote is what Brett said I'm not going anywhere I'm just getting started dang it Brett trending up this week is Hot Wheels to be fair I think this is the highest you're going to see this game trend up so we're going to give it it's due right now it is a fun game it's on the tip of everyone's tongue a lot of people have been transformed over this last weekend seeing all the media that's out there covering Hot Wheels that they're interested. There will be some purchases with Hot Wheels. So nicely done, American Pinball. Especially Joe Balcer and the coders Josh Kugler and Joe Schober. Terrific, terrific job. The artwork even looks good, Bush. Balser, one of my favorite layouts probably that you've ever done. I love me some Joe Balcer. Hello. Also trending out this week is Stern Ellie. What? Wait, hold up. Okay, got to fact check this. That doesn't sound right at all, but it is. In particular, Elvira and the House of Whores and Jurassic Park, pinball machines. The LEs have now, on the secondary market, I have seen them sell for more than the price of a brand new one in the box. Dennis, how can you tell me that's not a trend? It's not a trend, Zach. How is it not? You had it new, and then you opened it, and then it's old, and then it's worth more than when it was new. Come on, Dennis. No. Don't believe me. Let's try this one. How about a topper? Pre-ordering. A topper. Ever heard of that? People are mad about the topper. Everyone agreed with me on the last episode about the topper. No one agreed with you making me the winner. But I'm training up topper pre-orders. Because ever since this Jurassic Park, I'm getting flooded with those orders. Jurassic Park toppers. Now we're getting pre-orders for toppers that haven't been released yet. Put me down for an Elvira topper. Put me down for a Stranger Things topper. Sight unseen, people. You know what I call that? I call that hashtag topper. Do you want to be a part of it? Hashtag Topper Team Join the club now By rewarding your Unannounced topper From Flip N Out Pinball Also training up this week I'm just in a positive little mood Also training up is Spooky Pinball Armor Kits Damn it Spooky you've done it again You sons of bitches I'm in Did you see what Spooky Pinball has done? They recently released at SpookyPinball.com In their shop custom armor that they sell now for each of their titles. You want different TNA armor? Bam! There it is. Do you want some America's Most Haunted? Don't answer that, Dennis. Armor? I like America's Most Haunted. I do too. I really do too. But I don't want any armor for it. Why not? It's so beautiful. Rob Zombie armor? I want them to release like a margarine cab to compete with the better cab. I can't believe it's not, buddy. That's right. I want it to be like half the price, but just as shiny. Budget-friendly. Half the price, just as shiny. Oh, that might have been the joke of the show. The joke of the show. But what is not, my friends, is trending now this week is the Simpsons Pinball Party. Secondary sales are now, man, they're low. They are now on par with the newer Stern Pros on the secondary market. This has not happened in a while, listener. For example. Interesting. The Simpsons Pinball Party can now be found for the lower fives around $5,000. Do you think – I'm terribly sorry to butt in. You know I don't like to agree market trends. Please do. But do you think that is because a host of Silver Ball Chronicles, Mr. David Dennis, bought the Simpsons Pinball Party and has driven the pricing down? I hope that's true. I hope that's true. I do too. I think the truth of it is, in my analysis, the analysis suggests that the reason that it is, is because the newer titles that continue to come out, some of them being animated series that are more popular than Simpsons, helps drive that Simpsons price down. As well as with the emergence of continued innovation, great theming, LCD screen technology, every release that comes out makes Simpsons look even more clunkier, even more dated. which then drives that down. The last additional piece in this analysis profile is the fact that with Stern Games and Jersey Jack increasing in price over the years, I mean, a Stern Pro is now $58.99. Whenever they do go on the secondary market, you're not going to see them drop in those mid-fours. You're not going to see those drop at $4,800. Now that bottom price after a year or so on the secondary market is about $50. is about $5,100, $5,200. You're seeing Simpsons go down a little bit and you're seeing Stern because of the degree and awesomeness of some of their recent titles and the price increase. Bouncing yourself out. Also trending down, unfortunately, is another Stern title is Game of Thrones. Premium LE version. Wow. Premiums can now be found mint, people, in the $5,000 range. $5,000. That's a lot of game for $5,000-something. LE's upper sixes. This is a beautiful LE. People never like that art package. Never like the art package, but it's still a beautiful back glass. The custom armor that's on it. That's nice. It is nice. It's not a margarine cab, so. I can't believe it's not butter. Also trending down. Don't think you're getting away that easy, American Pinball. It's Houdini. Burn them. Burn them all. That's what the shots are. That's what I heard. There was one that was just listed for $4900. That's way too much greatness of a game for $4900. Oh, and I can feel the hunger in you all's tum-tums for a pinball market. Open the door to a deal of the week! Buy, buy, buy! Deal of the week this week is a Stranger Things limited edition. Oh my, thank you, Josh. Mount Vernon, Illinois. I feel like I've reported on this one already, but $77.50. Oh, for an LE, perfect condition. And it's got the Stern UV kit already installed. I want to buy this thing, and I've already got one. He said he'll even strap it to a pallet. Buy, buy, buy! Enough's enough. This is way too cheap. Thank you, Josh. How is this thing not sold, sold, sold? Ooh, another deal of the week here. hot off the factory line itself is a Hot Wheels pre-owned for marketing purposes. These things are $62.95 plus shipping. $6,200. I'm flipping out pinball. Buy, buy, buy! And it's becoming one of my favorite parts of pinball market trends. It's viewer trends! Where you, the viewer, submit your pinball or life trends. Trending up, trending down, holding stability, trending, what the f**k? You submit them based on what you're seeing and what you're observing in the pinball community and in your own personal lives. This week, we got a submission from a celebrity. Uh-oh, Din Din. Can you handle the celebrity submission this week? Let's listen together. Pin-up market trends activated. Trending up this week. Space X is trending up into space. Pinball market trends activated. Trending down. Denny's love for toppers. Pinball market trends activated. Trending up this week. My love for the poor man pinball podcast. I love you Ian and Drew. Pinball market trends activated. Trending down this week is Canada's Facebook shared posts of leaked pictures. Sell, sell, sell. Pinball market trends activated. Trending up this week Orby High as a kite Marijuana Marijuana Marijuana Marijuana Marijuana Marijuana That's good shit Orby Pinbot Market Trends activated Trending up this week The love for my bride I love you bride of Pinbot Trending up this week My center post Pinbot Market Trends Activated Trending down this week is Denny's Love For Adam Sandler And for Topper Talk Pinbot Out Thank you, Pro. Did you know Pinbot is hashtag Team Topper? love you hey everybody thanks for listening to episode 18 of the pinball show dennis did you learn anything this week more than i wanted to oh unfortunately god i'm gonna have to get new boots these have so much mud on them where can they find you dennis oh you always reach out to me eclectic gamers podcast at gmail.com facebook.com slash eclectic gamers podcast or eclecticgamers.com if you want to go to the website. Yeah, and you just had a new Eclectic Gamers podcast episode this week. Why not listen to it? If you guys have not listened to that yet, jump over there right now because the show's almost over. Jump over there. Listen to Tony Takes. Yes, that's what we call it. Tony Takes. Tony Takes. Hard. Why is that guy still not like me? Tony. Love you. I'm not going to tell you why. It's a secret. Fair enough. Keep it safe. Keep it close. You can reach us at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. Make sure to subscribe and follow to us on Facebook, on YouTube. The streamers, we've got more streamers. Dennis, side note, I sent you guys the group of little streamers. You need to look at it, see who we want to push forward, that kind of thing. I'll take a look. Thank you. If you're wanting to see Hot Wheels in action, check out the Straight Down the Middle YouTube series and subscribe and follow us there because nobody else is going to cheer us. not that i am but hurt as well as the i'll be fair as well as dead flip to the stream and this week in pinball did a deep dive deep dive it's really really good nice and just yeah yep it was nicely done um and then they had some podcasts to go listen to those we've recently had a lot of awesome awesome podcasts puppet pals real quick dennis what the hell is that what is puppet pals it it's it's weird the the creator's anonymous too so and so we've been getting people messaging us and saying how do you and dennis do the voices on that and i'm like god look we thought it was a joke voice on that i had someone accused me of being macho like i'm not have you ever even heard me do a voice remotely like that and no you were not known for your voices besides Alvin Jones. And that was a happy accident. That's so mean. No, when we got the email, Dennis, we thought, I thought they were just f***ing with us. Like, oh, Zach would probably go for that. But then they sent something, and it was one of the best promos and pieces of pinball media I've heard since I've started. I'm not going to lie. I hope this isn't a joke, Dennis, because I love puppets and muppets. Love them. Well, my take is it's going to be a little kind of adult humor oriented. It's going to it might push some boundaries. It's going to be some jokes. It might not be the safest show. I don't know if I can trust these puppets. No, I don't think so either. If you like comedy, I'm thinking, well, we'll find out. And if it's awful, we'll kill it. that's right that's how we do it we will kill moppy moppy you gotta listen to him listener tune in listen to that promo again moppy is uh he's a little filthy mouth i don't know what he is a puppet i don't know well it's puppet pals i think they're all puppets i had someone ask like how can you do this it's not video so how do we know they're puppets that's how good that is if you can do a puppet show in audio form and it's that effing good i'm smelling twippy just saying I'm just saying and if you're ready to buy a brand new pinball machine we don't offer puppets but we do offer escalators call Flip N Out Pinball at 812-457-9711 or flip the letter in out pinball dot com or email me Zach Z-A-C-H at flip the letter in out pinball dot com more streamers coming more podcasts coming there's a big one at the final round and it is coming there's a big one at Puppet Pals that's coming I think this week as well until next week for Dennis Creasel I'm Zach Minney remember to see and wait and always practice safe pinball and it's bullshit up so long everybody bye bye i don't know flicking it's gonna make people cringe and crash i'm filling space i'm uh vamping as the kids say let him be a free bird he's gotta fly he's a peacock you gotta let him fly yeah he will crash and his wings will be broken oh it makes me want trip acid but yeah oh thank you for that see that made my entire day gonna get me through all this editing i'll air it tomorrow for an hour and you're gonna say pull it pull it pull the pull the episode down

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: bcd645d2-f4b6-49b3-b7c6-73326f705120*