# EP 92 - Macho Pinball Revealed! PINBALL PODCAST BOMBSHELLS **Source:** Special When Lit **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2023-02-07 **Duration:** 65m 51s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://specialwhenlitpinballpodcast.com/ep-92-macho-pinball-revealed-pinball-podcast-bombshells --- ## Analysis In Episode 92 of Special When Lit, hosts Ken Promwell, Bill Webb, and Steve Beattie discuss personal 'pinball moments'—impactful experiences outside of gameplay that changed their perspective on the hobby and industry. They share stories about meeting legendary designers like Roger Sharp and Steve Ritchie, discovering collector communities, and receiving recognition from industry figures, before playing a segment called 'Drain It or Save It' debating pineapple on pizza. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Steve Ritchie is now working at Jersey Jack Pinball — _Bill Webb mentions 'Steve's working at Jersey Jack right now' in casual conversation about meeting Ritchie at Stern previously_ - [HIGH] Ken owns or had access to an Earthshaker prototype (possibly #7) that Pat Lawler worked on — _Bill discusses an Earthshaker prototype now at his workplace lunchroom, references conversation with Pat Lawler about prototype numbers_ - [HIGH] Bill has an Earthshaker prototype currently displayed in his workplace lunchroom accessible to ~80 employees — _Bill states 'It's sitting in Hoffman Estates right now... It's at work in our lunchroom. Joe brought it in for everybody at work to play'_ - [HIGH] Steve Beattie met a collector (Dave) in Glen Ellen with an extensive pinball collection that included 'all the top titles' — _Steve recounts visiting Dave's house to buy a Firepower backglass, discovering a basement with dozens of machines_ - [HIGH] Ken received a private message from an unnamed industry figure thanking him for positive game feedback on Pinside — _Ken describes receiving a PM saying 'hey, really appreciate that you posted, appreciated that you liked the game' from someone working in the industry living locally_ ### Notable Quotes > "Steve's working at Jersey Jack right now. Yeah. Now he pisses you off." > — **Bill Webb**, ~27:45 > _Reveals Steve Ritchie's recent career move from Stern to Jersey Jack Pinball, a significant personnel shift in the industry_ > "So in your where you work your lunchroom has Earthshaker prototype number seven... No one realizes what they're actually seeing." > — **Bill Webb**, ~35:30 > _Describes the surreal situation of a historically significant prototype being accessible to unaware employees daily, illustrating the Chicagoland pinball heritage_ > "I just met the pinball wizard. I just saw like 50 pinballs in this guy's house." > — **Steve Beattie**, ~19:15 > _Steve's reaction upon discovering the scale of serious collector culture, a transformative moment realizing pinball collecting extends beyond casual ownership_ > "And I think that's when myself and Bill, we started having conversations on a daily basis over the phone on your way into work, what have you. and honestly that that private message may have been one of the pinnacle moments of your pinball universe" > — **Ken Promwell**, ~50:00 > _Ken reflects on how recognition from an industry figure validated his community participation and led to deeper podcast discussions with Bill_ > "Only in Chicago. Only in Chicago. Are you hanging out, having a couple drinks, doing a podcast, and somebody is going to offer you a white clock face for your Twilight Zone?" > — **Bill Webb**, ~45:50 > _Highlights the unique community support and resource-sharing culture specific to the Chicagoland pinball region_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Ken Promwell | person | Host of Special When Lit podcast, pinball enthusiast and content creator based in St. Charles, Illinois | | Bill Webb | person | Co-host of Special When Lit podcast, pinball collector with machines including Medieval Madness, Twilight Zone, and Earthshaker prototype at workplace | | Steve Beattie | person | Co-host of Special When Lit podcast, pinball enthusiast who discovered serious collecting culture through local community | | Roger Sharp | person | Pinball industry legend who appeared on Special When Lit podcast (episodes ~50-60), met in person at Jamesons restaurant in Chicago area | | Steve Ritchie | person | Legendary pinball designer ('King of Flow'), formerly at Stern Pinball, now working at Jersey Jack Pinball; designed High Speed and Terminator 2 | | Pat Lawler | person | Legendary pinball designer who worked on Earthshaker; met at recent expo walking with Larry DeMar | | Larry DeMar | person | Pinball industry figure described by Ken as his 'unicorn person'; spotted at recent expo with Pat Lawler | | Dave | person | Glen Ellen-based pinball collector with extensive collection of top-tier machines; helped Steve Beattie with Firepower backglass | | Special When Lit | organization | Pinball podcast based in St. Charles, Illinois, hosted by Ken Promwell, Bill Webb, and Steve Beattie; focuses on industry discussion and community culture | | Pinside | organization | Major online pinball community forum and marketplace; source where Ken found industry figure who sent encouraging private message | | Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer; recent employer of Steve Ritchie after his departure from Stern | | Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; previous employer of Steve Ritchie for multiple years | | Earthshaker | game | Classic Williams pinball game; prototype #7 (or variant) currently playable in Bill Webb's workplace lunchroom in Hoffman Estates | | Medieval Madness | game | Classic pinball machine; Bill Webb owns one; coworker scored 70 million as first high score | | Twilight Zone | game | Pinball classic with color DMD upgrade and blue clock housing (white face variant); Bill Webb owns and has Engel Kramer clock board | | Firepower | game | Early pinball machine; Steve Beattie purchased for $100 without backglass; obtained backglass from Dave in Glen Ellen | | Dirty Harry | game | Pinball machine; Dave (Glen Ellen collector) previously sold to Steve Beattie | | Wizard of Oz | game | Newer pinball title; Bill's coworkers hadn't seen it before his pinball night event | | Wonka | game | Newer pinball title; Bill's coworkers hadn't experienced it before his pinball night event | | High Speed | game | Classic pinball game designed by Steve Ritchie; mentioned in context of police involvement in real-life incident | | Terminator 2 | game | Pinball game designed by Steve Ritchie; referenced as memorable interview topic | ### Topics - **Primary:** Personal 'Pinball Moments' outside of gameplay, Meeting legendary designers and industry figures, Chicagoland as pinball heritage region, Community recognition and validation in pinball hobby, Pinball collector culture and collection scale - **Secondary:** Pinside forum culture and community dynamics, Steve Ritchie's move from Stern to Jersey Jack, Prototype machines and historical significance ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.82) — Hosts express genuine warmth and enthusiasm discussing industry figures, collector communities, and personal connections. Nostalgic and appreciative tone when recounting meetings with designers. Some light complaints about weather/helicopters early on, but quickly shifts to positive pinball discussion. 'Drain It or Save It' segment is lighthearted and playful. ### Signals - **[personnel_signal]** Steve Ritchie has transitioned from Stern Pinball to Jersey Jack Pinball; described as now being at Jersey Jack and 'pisses you off' in context of lunch preferences (confidence: high) — Bill Webb: 'Steve's working at Jersey Jack right now. Yeah. Now he pisses you off. And when he says, you know, I want to go get Chinese and you want, you know, Portillo's.' - **[community_signal]** Growing awareness among newer enthusiasts of the scale and depth of serious pinball collecting (Dave's collection of 50+ machines), leading to realization that collecting extends far beyond casual ownership (confidence: high) — Steve Beattie describes discovering Dave's basement: 'I go downstairs, and I'm just like shell-shocked. Blown away. This guy's got all the top titles just stacked against every wall.' - **[content_signal]** Recognition from an unnamed industry figure via private message on Pinside validated Ken's community participation and directly led to increased podcast content creation with Bill Webb (confidence: high) — Ken: 'And I think that's when myself and Bill, we started having conversations on a daily basis over the phone on your way into work, what have you. and honestly that that private message may have been one of the pinnacle moments of your pinball universe' - **[historical_signal]** Earthshaker prototype (possibly #7) historically significant as designed by Pat Lawler, currently playable in workplace lunchroom with ~80 daily users, most unaware of its provenance (confidence: high) — Bill Webb: 'It's sitting in Hoffman Estates right now. It's at work in our lunchroom. Joe brought it in for everybody at work to play... No one realizes what they're actually seeing.' - **[community_signal]** Chicagoland region continues to be the epicenter of pinball culture and industry legacy, with multiple legendary designers and collectors concentrated in the area (confidence: high) — Ken: 'we're so tied into the hobby and into the industry... Chicagoland area and suburbs lends itself well to some pinball legends. But again, to the points being made, this is where pinball originated.' - **[community_signal]** Strong local pinball community culture of resource sharing and mutual support (offering white clock faces, backglasses, helping with restoration) (confidence: high) — Bill Webb offering clock face: 'I actually have some white clock faces if you want one.' Ken's response: 'Only in Chicago. Only in Chicago. Are you hanging out, having a couple drinks, doing a podcast, and somebody is going to offer you a white clock face for your Twilight Zone?' - **[community_signal]** Pinside forum serves as both positive community hub and source of polarizing discussions; newer enthusiasts navigate complex social dynamics when participating (confidence: high) — Ken: 'Pinside has a lot to offer. It also, if you get kind of wrapped up in the wrong discussions or you're following the wrong people, it can be a different experience... I found myself going down the rabbit hole sometimes of just getting into some of the more polarizing threads' - **[industry_signal]** Legendary designers like Roger Sharp, Steve Ritchie, and Pat Lawler remain active in local community and accessible to enthusiasts for personal interaction (confidence: high) — Multiple accounts of meeting/running into legendary designers: Roger Sharp dinner at Jamesons, Steve Ritchie at work, Pat Lawler at recent expo with Larry DeMar --- ## Transcript coming at you out of st charles illinois the special when lit pinball podcast starts now hey what's going on special when lit land welcome to episode 92 that's nine two a special when lit podcast my name is ken promwell i'm bill webb and i'm steve beattie steve beattie and bill webb welcome to the show what's going on gentlemen oh it's a wednesday It is a hump day, for sure. Yeah, so we typically record on Wednesdays. That's just kind of how our schedule goes out. And then we upload the episode the following Tuesday after a little bit of weekend action. But it's good to see you guys. Absolutely. We've got a pretty amazing show in my eyes, some surprises along the way today. As we get further into the show, I think people will appreciate kind of where this goes. But hello. It's been a bad week for me in general, right? It's been a week in general. Yes. I don't know what was in the stars or where the moon was setting, but it's just like the last week for me has been very frustrating and not any one thing. It's every single thing. It's the Chicago Carl Weathers. We finally are experiencing winter. Yeah. It's got what it's got to be. It could be because the snow came, right? The snow came and it just was just unrelenting. It wasn't a lot. It was just unrelenting. Yeah. You know, that was the like, okay, you know, I don't need this crap. Cold as crap now. Believe it or not, that wasn't the problem. Dude, it wasn't really. It was cold, but the wind wasn't ripping, though. When the wind was ripping. Yeah, when the wind. Dude, that sucks. It's not Windy City. I was home today this morning, and I'm hearing the sound of what's a helicopter going through the house. And it's not uncommon. I don't live too far from a local municipal airport. Yeah. that helicopter sound did not leave and it was coming and going in waves and i'm like what's going on so after a few minutes i just kind of go outside and i look up and there's like three helicopters and they're just in a circling pattern which looked like it was completely over my house now i don't live too far from a a courthouse that has like a temporary jail facility there and i'm thinking okay somebody escaped right because i'm looking upstairs or I'm looking up in the sky, and it's Channel 7 Eyewitness News. It's like a sheriff copter, I think, was up there in another helicopter, but I couldn't figure out what it was. So, you know, of course, the internet sleuth that I am, I go on Facebook, and I'm checking, you know, what's happening in my town and what's going on. That's a great resource, right? It is, because if anybody that's online that knows, and this is probably a topic for another day, but it's like you think you know your neighbors until you go into your neighborhood's Facebook page. and everybody acts like it's the zombie apocalypse. Nobody has any manners. It's pretty crazy. But I digress. That's like your first source of news, though. You weren't the one going and asking, hey, what's going on with the choppers above? No, but for a minute, because they were just triangulated over my house, I'm like, am I being implicated in a crime or mistakenly what's going on? Anyways, long story short, it turned out that somebody walked into the courthouse that's next to my house with a gun, and the sheriff's department was out there, And I guess Channel 7 decided, and a couple of other copters flew all the way from Chicago. A slow day. I guess in a helicopter. What is that, a 15-minute ride to get from Chicago to St. Charles? During Roselle, so it's even closer. Oh, well, it probably took them three or four minutes to get here. But, yeah, that was how I started my day. Kind of exciting, kind of fun, but ultimately a nothing burger. For just a minute. Yeah. Dude, it's crazy because literally you'll see, like, the Joneses. Oh, I saw three cop cars at the Joneses' house at X, Y, and Z court. And I wonder if Mr. Jones is beating his wife. Anybody have any info? It's like, Jesus, dude, you've already came up with a story of this dude being a – You're talking about the neighborhood? Yeah, the neighborhood. I mean, it's great. Somebody's selling 30-year-old doilies that are sun-bleached. We've got a big thing out here with coyotes. Everybody's worried about the coyotes. Yeah, but why? It's just if you have a small dog, keep it in your yard. Coyotes aren't really hopping the fence to take away your dog. But there's like coyote trackers in these neighborhoods. What does that mean? Coyote, down it, down it. 215 North Avenue. Oh, so what? Exactly, so what? But these neighborhood things are crazy. Yeah, the neighborhood things are crazy. Our area is literally the Fox Valley. I mean, you know, we're going to have some wildlife out here. Oh, of course. I mean, of course. Of course. You know what else I did is two mornings ago, as I was getting ready to get in my car and go to work, there was a crow that was up in a tree across the street, and it's just cawing. I don't know. I've got this fascination with crows. I've done some research with crows. They're smart animals. They can kind of adapt to humans helping them out. And, you know, it's not uncommon for a crow or crows to be appreciative of your efforts in helping them or feeding them. Yeah, they give you little trinkets. And they bring you little treats and stuff back. So I'm like, ah, what the heck. I've got a couple minutes before I drive in the car. So I run inside. I've got a can of some cashews. And then, of course, I've got to be like, hey, Alexa, what can you feed crows? because I don't want to give the crow like a jolly rancher and he dies. But yeah, so Nuts was on part of the feeding list. Anyways, I'm shaking the can. He's up in the trees looking at me. So I've got my eye contact. It wasn't going to fly down. I don't have him trained. But I did sprinkle the peanuts or the cashews on the driveway and went inside and I watched him, and he did come down and eat them. Nice. So guys, by this same time, I'm hoping by episode 100, I've trained a crow that will start bringing me some little trinkets and prizes. Gold, $100 bills. Whatever it takes. I have crows in my backyard. I might do the same. We might have a crow off. Who can get the first trinket from a crow? I have the dog, though. He probably scares the crows away. He probably does scare the crows. There's even more skin in the game for you to win this, though, now. You ever see the movie The Crow with Brandon Lee? The Crow. That's way back in the day. It's so amazing, though. Amazing soundtrack. If you like movies, and we're going to get into pinball here in a second. Grunge. If you like movies where somebody just gets the crap kicked out of them, and then they come back with the most ultimate vengeance, almost like a John Wick. Like, you're going to like The Crow. I was just going to say that. But not as good as John Wick. Well, equally as good, but in a different time period, a different era of films. But a better soundtrack. And it's more dark. Yeah, it's an amazing soundtrack. It really, really is. So I've never seen the movie, but I know the soundtrack. I'm a big Stone Temple Pilots fan. Big Empty is on that album. It's just it's an amazing movie, amazing soundtrack. It would make an amazing pinball machine, I think. But I just I don't think the following is probably there for it to be a license that makes sense. But personally, I would love to play the crow pinball. You're all in. I'm all in. We were talking earlier last week about what we wanted to discuss on this show, episode 92. And it seems like when we think about pinball and we think about things that we like about pinball, you know, you've got your artwork, you've got your shots. For a lot of people that collect and a lot of enthusiasts, it comes down to what are the pinball moments? Pinball moments can be defined as something that the game does that makes you kind of sit back and take it all in. And it's something that happens in a game where if you've got company over or you've got your friends, you want to show them that part of the game. It's that important. It's become a pinball moment. on the flip side i wanted to do this with a twist and we could talk about pinball moments playing games if you want to but one thing i wanted to kind of focus on and i think everybody can kind of relate to this that's listening to this podcast because obviously you've got somewhat of a pinball or gaming background what is the pinball moment outside of gameplay that kind of changed the way you looked at the industry or the hobby a moment outside of gameplay i like it so i have a couple and they all rate real high am i limited to one no no no in fact i won't go 50 my top 56 we're not going to go 15 minutes on this yeah but it had occurred to me like i mean we're so tied into the hobby and into the industry and and there's so many things that that i don't want to say that we're experts but we're very we're very well educated and very well versed in in pinball and for me it'd be fun to kind of hear what are some impactful things and look there There are some universal things like, hey, my first pinball machine. I get it. That's a huge thing for everybody else. But what are some kind of interesting things that maybe from the two of you, and I can include myself, that maybe some people would not have realized you considered a pinball moment? One of mine, unless you want to go first, Steve. No, don't shoot. One of mine, geographically, this area lends itself very well to being this hobby. We're in the homeland of pinball, being in the Chicagoland area. Right. So in the early days of Special Unlit, probably around episode 50, 60, something like that, we'd actually had Roger Sharp on. And we'd planned on having just a casual five, ten-minute conversation. It wound up being basically a whole episode. And then we got on the topic of food saying, hey, let's go get some Jamesons. We found out where he lived. I mean, you can't throw a Frisbee and hit it, but it's not a far drive. So when you and myself and Roger Sharp had dinner one night, and then literally just hearing the stories and the banter. Jameson's, yeah. And you were like, I've never heard of this place. And he's like, oh, I love Jameson's. And then you felt like you were out of the loop. That part was funny. But literally sitting down with the man, the legend, and hearing his stories and the way that he just articulates himself. And he has a beautiful way of coming across. Like you can be completely wrong on something in his mind, and the way that he puts it is just you're happy you were wrong to hear how he explained how you were wrong. Bill enjoys the articulation of a Rogers charm. Oh, it was awesome. Without a doubt. Awesome. Without a doubt. Especially when Ken's on the negatively received end. The receiving end. The receiving end. Yeah. Rogers is a great guy. Wonderful guy. That was by far one of the top. Meeting Steve Ritchie when he was working at Stern. King of pinball, master of flow, yeah. Hearing the story about high speed him personally, like how that whole thing transpired, and the police actually did get him. He didn't get away, and it was in a Porsche. You know, like that whole interview was just, you know. Yes. From a podcast standpoint. I mean, there's two podcast moments. These are podcast. I mean, just meeting him in general. Right. You know, it would have been the same. Guess what? Steve's working at Jersey Jack right now. Yeah. Now he pisses you off. And when he says, you know, I want to go get Chinese and you want, you know, Portillo's. Steve takes lunch very seriously. And I love that he does. Yeah, absolutely. Do you drive with him to lunch? I've of course. Is he quicker than Bill? They both have a lot of similarities in their driving styles. So I notice a lot of people. I don't know. A lot of pinball people are into cars. Yeah, I mean, I guess. I think a lot of people that are designing in the industry are into mechanics in general, right? Like how things work and design and probably motors and all that kind of cool stuff. Yeah. Those were just like my highlights of everything. One other sidebar. um this recent expo i saw pat lawler walk into expo and we've met and you know you know uh talked before you know um definitely great moments and pat you know love pat as well but he was walking with larry demar and that's like my unicorn person yeah that's pretty huge never met for sure and i was like oh i still want to meet him but i don't want to go interrupting them or whatever but that was cool to actually see that he's still around and doing that kind Very cool. What about a Steve Beattie pinball moment? Yeah. Again, so many outside of playing pinball. I'm going to go back deep to kind of what made me realize what this hobby could be. So I got a firepower pinball. It was like $100. Had no back glass. Needed a ton of work. But I get on pin side and I ask, you know, who's got a fire? Anybody have a firepower back glass? and this guy in Glen Ellen, I believe, and this guy's like, yeah, I have a firepower back glass. Come on out during lunch. And I'm like, okay. So 20 minutes to his house, maybe 30. And I leave my car running in his driveway just to go grab this back glass. And he's like, hey, you got to come downstairs, check out the pinball room or whatever. I've been in this place, by the way. I go downstairs, and I'm just like shell-shocked. Blown away. This guy's got all the top titles just stacked against every wall. I'm like, oh, my gosh. This is like the Mecca of pinball right here. Yeah. He's kind of got longer hair. I'm like, this is like the pinball wizard. This is the freaking pinball wizard. No doubt. He's a very personable guy, and I went over there to buy a Dirty Harry a while back. So, yeah, like an hour goes by, and I'm playing pin down in his basement. He's like, oh, you got to try this game. You got to try this game. I had never played in most of these games. Like two hours later, I'm like, dude, my car's been running this entire time. I'm like, I got to go. You're like sleeping over. Yeah, I'm like, I got to get back to work. I just took like a three-hour lunch break. I got my firepower glass. Everything was good. Dave's really cool. So thanks, Dave. that was one of many, many pinball moments. But that's kind of where I realized people collect more than just a couple. They have entire floors dedicated to pinball. Yeah, 100%. And I didn't know that was a thing before that. That's a great story. I like that. That's a pinball moment for sure. Pinball moment. Honestly, though, he was the pinball wizard. And I went back to work, and I was like, I just met the pinball wizard. I just saw like 50 pinballs in this guy's house. Dave's got a great reputation locally, too. I would imagine that extends out in the competitive scene and probably outside of the Chicagoland area. But he is kind of a legendary guy. Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Chicago lends itself well, or Chicagoland area and suburbs lends itself well to some pinball legends. But again, to the points being made, this is where pinball originated. It makes sense. There's a lot of stuff that used to funnel out back in the day that used to get shoved into homes. Right. You know, case in point, we talked about this before, but the Earthshaker that you found. Oh, that was a good pick. You know, I remember that, dude. $1,000 Earthshaker. All right, I'll be there. I get it. It was the first one there, first one with cash. And Ken's like, hey, man, does that have red boards underneath? The red boards that would be underneath the plate. I'm like, you know, let me check it out when I get home. Yeah, it does. Is that back glass? Does it have the pink Cadillac? I'm like, yeah, it looks pretty pink. He's like, dude, you have a prototype. Well, and the big deal was, does that building sink, right? Oh, that was – I'm like, yeah, that shit sinks. Yeah, that's amazing. You were gracious enough to allow me to own that game for a little bit too. Everybody knows – or anybody that follows my pinball appreciation knows that Earthshaker is my first game, and I love Earthshaker. So, yeah, it was really cool to own that game. I actually talked to Pat Lawler about that because I think it was prototype number three. Was it three? Three or four? I feel like seven. I want to say seven. Okay. I said like something. 220, 221, whatever it takes. He went four. That was the one you wanted because he said that number four had all the writing inside of it. Yeah, okay. Yeah, no writing on this one besides the side of the play field. Yeah. But I remember Pat saying, hey, you know, if you have a prototype and say it was number seven, And he's like, I worked on that game. And for me, that was a pretty big deal. Very cool. He's a legendary paddler. And that's still in our St. Charles Pinball Club here. It's sitting in Hoffman Estates right now. It's floating around. Who has that? It's at work. What do you mean it's at work? It's at work in our lunchroom. Joe brought it in for everybody at work to play. No one realizes what they're actually seeing. So in your where you work your lunchroom has Earthshaker prototype number seven Yeah Playable Yeah Wow No one will ever understand what it actually is Only in Chicago Only in Chicago Everything going down Pink Cadillac That amazing Who got a high score on that That's a really nice example, too. There's a couple of ringers at work, man. It was funny because literally, I don't know, like six months ago, I had a pinball night at my house, right? For just coworkers, right? Like people that would go in and play pinball. And it varied. A lot of higher-ups that were there and stuff like that. and literally the one guy, he played Medieval Madness, right? I had just gotten it a couple months before. And I don't play a lot of pinball, so I don't have high scores on a lot of the games that I got. He crushed it with like 70 million and put his name on it. I'm like, dude, that was the first time I saw the video mode. That's amazing, yeah. Yeah, he's a good player. But, I mean, I had like eight people. It was a great time. But, yeah, they don't understand. How many employees do you have at your job? In the building? That would use that lunchroom. About 80. So let's just say this. Statistically speaking, you've got 80 people that go in and they use that lunchroom every single day. Statistically speaking, there could be like one or two people that would be pre-exposed to some type of pinball and would not even realize that they're playing an Earthshaker prototype that Pat Lawler worked on. No one knows besides me. Right. Because the natural progression of pinball is you get a game, you enjoy it, you get another game, you enjoy it, And then you start realizing, hey, you start figuring out who made these games, who designed these games, who did the artwork. It's a pretty beautiful thing when you think about it because you start peeling back these layers and it becomes more and more interesting until eventually you get two, three, five, ten, 15, 20 years into the hobby. You now have such a greater appreciation for something that you really care about. And it's hard to, in my opinion, with anything else I've ever gotten into, whether it be like baseball card collecting or whatever, to kind of just know the history, to know the people that were behind the games, to know about what a prototype even is, and to know that there's one at your work in the lunchroom. It just boggles my mind. It's a cool thing. Anybody from Bill's work is going to go out and play Earthshaker or anywhere else. They're going to be like, why doesn't the building sink? What's going on? This game is broken. I bought this game because the building sank. Well, the funny part is... It's false advertising, Bill. It's false advertising. Well, at the time when I had this little, I call it a little tournament, right? At my house, I think there was like eight or nine, actually it was like nine or ten. But a lot of the guys hadn't seen like Wizard of Oz. They hadn't seen Wonka. They hadn't seen a lot of the newer stuff, right? And they jumped on it and they're like, this is absolutely incredible. Because they weren't exposed to it. I mean, to me, it's just a Friday night, but they were like, wow, this is amazing. The one guy in college, he used to play Twilight Zone. He didn't really know I had a Twilight Zone at my house, and he saw it, and he goes, wow, this is such a throwback. And I'm like, well, it's a little different because, dude, this one's color DMD and all this stuff. He was just blown away. Even the advancements that are installed on these retro, like older games are still, it's like, wow, this is a throwback. Yeah, like the blue clock housing for Twilight Zone. I have that, and that's like my prized possession in that game. Yeah, I enjoy the blue clock housing on Twilight Zone. With the white face. Ah. Oh, that's so good. It is good. You don't like it, but that's okay. No, it's not that I don't like it. I just, I never had a Twilight Zone with a white clock face. Okay. I just, I have the Engel clock board. The Engel Kramer clock board. Yeah, the Engel Kramer clock board. It didn't come with a white clock face, though. Hmm. Or I lost it. Actually, I have some white clock faces if you want one. Ooh. Yeah, see? Only in Chicago. Only in Chicago. Are you hanging out, having a couple drinks, doing a podcast, and somebody is going to offer you a white clock face for your Twilight Zone? Appreciate it. That's how it goes. We're going to go over to drain it or save it in a second. But I just wanted to mention one of the pinball moments that, and I was thinking about this for a long time, and I went back and forth about thinking about different pinball moments. And again, we were talking about obviously the first time you played a game or you played it with somebody in your family or you bought your first game or your first new in-box experience. Those are huge deals. But something that was obscure that I realized more so today was a pinball moment was at one point when I was getting more and more into pinball and I was looking to consume content and I was looking for discussion, forum groups. I think the natural thing is at some point you find Pinside. And take it or leave it, Pinside has a lot to offer. It also, if you get kind of wrapped up in the wrong discussions or you're following the wrong people, it can be a different experience. I'll just leave it at that. It is what you make of it. I would agree with you. I would agree with you. And I found myself going down the rabbit hole sometimes of just getting into some of the more polarizing threads where some crazy things were going on. And it's like I'm literally the popcorn meme guy. Just kind of watching. Need a little drama in your life? Never really posted too much, but I would just kind of take it in. And I think at the time I had maybe it was my son who was taking naps because he was like a newborn and I'm just laying in bed next to him or while he's in the crib and I'm trying to like read. Anyways, long story short, I remember making a comment on a game that somebody was discussing. And the comment was something along the lines was, hey, I really enjoy this game. I'm kind of newer to pinball. This is a game that I wasn't looking to get, and I got it, and it was really fun, and I appreciate it, and the rules were awesome, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I just kind of left it at that. A couple days go by. I got a PM in my inbox, and I opened it up. And I don't want to say who this is just because it was a private message. But the private message essentially said, hey, really appreciate that you posted, appreciated that you liked the game, and I hope that you have more fun with the game. and thanks for the support. And I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. And I looked. It was somebody that lived locally, like pretty close to my house. So I was like, oh, wow, this person lives really close to me. So I kind of clicked to kind of get an idea of who they were. And it was somebody that worked in the industry. And I was like, wow, like so somebody in this industry that I love took the time to kind of reach out and say, hey, I appreciate the feedback and thanks for posting and thanks for buying the game. And for me, that's when I feel like I kind of crossed a barrier from being a collector and an enthusiast to not somebody that was important, but somebody that really wanted to kind of chronicle and discuss not only the hobby, but the industry. And I think that's when myself and Bill, we started having conversations on a daily basis over the phone on your way into work, what have you. and and honestly that that private message may have been one of the pinnacle moments of your pinball universe it might have been for us to kind of just even start podcasting yeah and to start kind of deep diving and enjoying this conversation so that was like a pinball moment for me that i don't know that i fully realized until i really started thinking back because there's a lot of them but that was kind of an obscure thing that ultimately like really impacted me so So the person that I'm referencing here, you know who you are. And out of respect, it was a private message. Didn't want to say who you are, but thank you. But I do have a question for you guys. All right, let's do it. Are you ready to play? You're not supposed to say let's do it yet. Are you guys ready to play a little Drain It or Save It? Yes. It's time for this week's edition of Drain It or Save It. All right, everybody, the rules of Drain It or Save It are simple. We're going to offer a topic. Based on that topic, if you disagree with the general conversation or the topic, you're going to drain it. If you agree with the general topic or conversation, you're going to save it. We're going to start today with Steve Beattie. Steve, what's your drain it or save it? All right. I'm going outside of pinball, boys. That's fine. Pineapple on pizza. Drain it or save it. That's a really good one, actually. We don't know each other's drain it or save it before they happen. and right now i don't even need the stall but who do you want to throw this to steve bill's looking a little confused i'm going straight to bill all right let's go i'm gonna drain it i mean once in five years okay maybe but no no no no no no that's not a i'm gonna drain that no no hawaiian pizza no dude i like dude standard pizza standard you know what what's standard pizza what does that mean cheese cheese and pepperoni i'm not a sausage guy nice and simple. What? Yes. I don't need all that crap on top of it. Standard pizza is sausage. It's Chicago. No. Abe Froman's here. He's the sausage king of Chicago. Sausage king of Chicago. I prefer the pepperoni over the sausage, too. So do I. I've had some interesting pizzas. You eat weird stuff, though, dude. You are not afraid to go outside of that box and just... No, I don't like it. Like a shrimp Alfredo pizza. Have you ever done... Oh, you're hanging out at, like, California Pizza Kitchen. No, I actually are one of our favorite pizza places. Well, it makes sense now. I love Pomodoro. It's the best pizza in the area, without a doubt. Sidebar. But that's authentic kind of Italian. Anyways. Chicago Pizza Oven Grinder. Have you ever been there? Have not. Okay. All right. Ken, are you saving or draining? I am draining also the pineapple pizza or pineapple on a pizza. Number one, I'm not a pineapple fan. And number two, I'm not going to put it into my pizza. So that's not a thing for me. When you talk about standard pizza for me, I grew up on either cheese or sausage and cheese pizza. Pepperoni was more of a luxury that was introduced later on in my life. That's a highfalutin pizza. It was almost an acquired taste, the pepperoni. But now if I'm going to eat a pizza or consume a pizza, I may even throw in a little green pepper or onion. But I'm not an anchovy guy. I'm certainly not a pineapple guy. And this is the thing. It may taste great. It's just, for me, it violates all my pizza personal rules. So it's sausage, sausage pepperoni, maybe sausage pepperoni green pepper with the occasional onion. But I'm also in my 40s. Onions don't necessarily agree with me, especially later at night. So I've got to take that into consideration. But it's an excellent drain it or save it. And I think it will be controversial. If somebody else wants to chime in on this, email us or post on the Facebook page. Email here at specialinletpodcasts at gmail.com. Happy to read your correspondence on the air. But, Steve, what about you? Pineapple on pizza, drain it or save it. Oh, hell no, pineapple on pizza. I don't need anything sweet. Wow. On pizza. I thought he brought it up because he was going to support it. I thought he had some over the weekend. He's like, you know, it's good. It's in California Pizza Kitchen. Really? Okay. I had a conversation over the weekend. Okay. What was that? About pineapple on pizza. Interesting. And I was the one out of the other two that did not like pineapple on pizza. That makes me happy that you said that, actually. We're still brothers. So what is the pineapple? Do you have the barbecue sauce and chicken? How does that work? Yeah. I think typically you'll have like chicken. I don't know. I don't order it, but I think stereotypically it would be like barbecue sauce. There would be some type of pineapple. And what else would be on there? Chicken. Yeah, chicken. It's like a Hawaiian. It sounds like a Domino's order. So, yeah, hard pass on that. I can go into the weeds on pizza in general. I'm so passionate about it. We should. There's something coming up, and it'll be this year or next year. We've been talking about regarding pizza, and this is a horrible teaser, but it's like, we're in. This is a mecca. There are two things that came out of Chicago. That's pinball and coin-op, like arcades, and pizza, and I love them both. Al Capone. Well, Al Capone. Anywho. Anyhow. Would you like to go next, or would you like me to? Your call. Why don't you go? I will go. All right, so this is my drainer to save it. Also not pinball related. Telling your friend, family member, or colleague that they have a bat in the cave. Drain it or save it. Drain it. I hate when somebody tells me there's a co-worker that I have that will, oh, I've got to go grab a deuce. I'll be back. I don't want to know this. Really? It's like so inappropriate. It's like, mother. I'm not talking about that. I'm wondering what you're talking about. All right. So a bat in the cave is not dropping a deuce. Are you kidding me? We're keeping this in. A bat in the cave is when you're looking at somebody and you're having a conversation and there's like a booger in the nostril. That's a bat in the cave just hanging in there. It's not a dingleberry. You can go two for two. No, that's not that. You're not turtling or whatever it's called. So let's do this again. telling a friend, family member, or co-worker that they have a bat in the cave, drain it or save it? Steve. I think it depends on the context, the situation. But I'm going to drain... No. I'm going to save that. Yes, okay. Because if you have a bat in the cave, I'm going to be like, yo, bro, just wipe your face. You got a bat in the cave. You got a bat in the cave. Right. And by the way, that's kind of a new term to me. I'm sorry. Is that a new term to you? It is a very new term to me. That is some bonus content. I did not realize this. For the audience out there, a bat in the cave is a little boogie hanging. I played a lot of baseball in my life. And then in college, maybe it was just us. Bat in the cave was... Because you're out there. It's 35 degrees in Chicago. It's spring. And you're out running around. And you're unleashing the snot lockers all over the place. Occasionally get a bat in the cave. But anyways, okay, so you are saving it to calling it out, or you're draining calling it? Are you telling somebody there's a bat in a cave, or are you not? I'm saving it to call it out. Saving it. Bill? I'm going to save it, because it's a positive either way. If I love you, I don't want you to look like an idiot. Right. And if I don't like you, I'm going to love to call you out on it. And they're going to be like, that's a nice guy. Dude, you've got a massive booger hanging out. What did you do? No. Oh, yeah. You don't say that. That's why I say, hey, yo, left nostril, bat in the cave. Yeah. Well, then you've got to rub it in. Hey, never heard of it. Is this happening? I'll save it. What? I promise you I didn't make this up. Oh, I don't know. Listener. I'll save it. I'm going to tell listeners. Regardless, I'm going to tell us. And let us know if you know what bat in the cave means before this episode. We told them. Oh, okay. That's good. Yeah. If you know what it meant before this episode. Look, I promise you I'm not making up lingo for the sake of drain it or save it, but it's very possible that it was a regional team thing when I was playing baseball. So if that's the case, I apologize for wasting my drain or save it. I'm also going to save it. To your point, Bill, twofold. Not only am I allowing myself to have a more pleasant conversation with somebody with the removal of the bat in the cave, but I'm also showing that person respect that they're not going to be going through the rest of their day with the bat in the cave. So bat in the caves, I am saving, notifying the person that removal or extraction is probably prefer in spite of my rage saving just a bat it's in the cave wiping the bat in the cave it's not a not a rat in the cage it's a bat in the bat in the cave oh smashing pumpkins is listening right now if we could do a play on that that'd be amazing see i have this image in my head now of you like austin powers with uh the mole yeah you know just focusing on someone's nose and they're they know like you're not looking at him but what are you looking at um we're gonna go three for three this week these are non-pinball related questions today wow it's almost as if we're trans transitioning out of pinball but you know what i was thinking about you guys over the weekend um ran out of you bill ran out of shave gel went in my cabin to grab some more shave gel and uh that was starting odd when you thought about us this weekend and then you started grabbing shave gel i was wondering where that was going Let me get a little further down the road It make sense This is a family show Yeah Bill you got to bat in the cave by the way Sweet I going to keep it there just so you guys have to stare at it What cave is that? Patten? The third cave. No! Family-friendly. It's dark there. Anywho. So literally... So bad. Any poo? So literally any poo. I go down to get my, you know, another bottle of shave gel because in the web house, I buy stuff in bulk, right? I'm not buying one shaving cream. I'm not buying one bar, you know. If I'm going to use it, there's 12 of them. You know, that's just how I do. You know, I don't know if you guys are the same way, but I just, I hate running out of stuff. So go down, you know, to the cabinet, grab another one. There is some off-market shaving cream from like 1965 style. You know, the real foamy. Like from Gillette? Yes, but worse because it's off-brand. Like the Barbasol? Like you put it on your face and you feel like you're the Marshmallow Man from Ghostbusters. It's just dripping off and shit. Like what the kids use at the end of the year in high school? Yes, yes. So it's that stuff that drips off your face and it shrinks as it's on your face. You're not using silly string. I'm just like... A battle against time. I literally opened the drawer just to look at the Q-tips. So, off-market shaving cream. Do you guys save it or drain it? Because literally, that was going through my head. I'm like, we just talked about when somebody buys cheap Q-tips and ruins your day. But you have clean USB ports. Steve. So, I use an electric shaver. Really? Wow. Yeah. A Panasonic? Or what do you got over there? I don't know. Kia. Noralco? Tesla. Who knows? What do you say in Ikea? Noralco. A Kia. A Kia? Okay. Okay. Yeah. You still have to have an opinion, though. I'm going to go drain it. Because, yeah, I was using the Gillette. It would come out as like a gel, and then it would turn into a foam. Yes. And that's the good stuff. It would be blue. Yeah. That's the good stuff. It's an experience. Yeah. But you just said you don't use any shaving gel. So what was going on there? So I had a couple. let's get deep in BD's medical. Okay, maybe we don't need to get deep in his BD's medical. I had like one or two ingrown hairs and I think it was when I was over in the pods of the earth. Probably some not good water but I was shaving and it turned into not something fun on my face. Yeah. Ever since then I'm like, you know, I'm going to leave a little stubble just so it doesn't have to grow from under the skin back out because that's where s*** happens. Right. That's that fourth bat in the cave. that's not a bat you won't no but the bat you be getting I got some major I'm going to do other shit I'm at the point in this podcast after being back three episodes minimal editing that's it I went all in on the first 90 a little bit of 91, 92 it's more organic Ken I'm with Steve, I don't use shaving cream I also use an electric razor. My man! It is what it is. If you want a nice baby butt shave, you've got to use shaving cream. Which I don't. I always leave a little stubble. My wife doesn't really like it. She likes me clean shaven in the face. Says I look a little bit younger, but hey, you know what? I've got to live a little bit. But I am going to drain the off-market shaving cream because you need the full experience. and if it's something where a razor is hitting your skin that's not the time where you cheap out so for that alone I will drain off market off label shaving cream the only thing that's good for it I'm waiting to find some kids egging and shaving creaming houses in like the fall I'm going to be like hey take this when you guys graduated like middle school did you guys do the shaving cream thing high school we had middle school and high school and then we've got a bonus drain it or save it We want to bring your submissions into the realm here on the docket. We're going to add this. Coming from listener Rob Bruton, friend of the show, Bill. Long time friend. Great guy. He says, drain it or save it. Arcade one-up style arcade cabinets and their virtual pins. Drain it or save it. We'll go to Bill on this one. So I'm going to save it because, you know what, if you don't have a lot of money, it's a great cheaper alternative. And if you want to try a table and it's not terribly expensive, why not give it a shot? But, you know, I mean, for us, you know, we've been in the hobby a lot longer. So, you know, for us to buy a table might not be as dramatic or as expensive for us because, you know, the first couple years of pinball ownership are the most expensive. But for people getting in or whatever or just want to experience it. Listen, I almost bought an attack from Mars. Yeah, one up? One up just to play it at my house, you know. So I'm going to save it. What do you think, BD? Yeah, I'll save it too. I mean, it's not necessarily for me, but I see the draw. I mean, it's getting people into the hobby. You know, you get these games, you get the arcade, you get the pinball, and then you start doing research and you realize what's out there and you can kind of build from there. Again, I'm not going to own one probably anytime soon. That's fair. But I totally understand the market and what they're going for, and I will save it. I would agree a lot with what you just said, whereas it's not something that appeals to me. And by no means am I like this arcade purist where I need to have a full-size cabinet. But there's something to be said for having something that's original and being played as intended. And this goes back to pinball machines as well, right? So an arcade one-up, which is like a miniature-sized, condensed, like one-third of the footprint type of deal. Same thing with pinball machines. The virtual pinball is not something that I've gone deep into because it's just not the physical kinetic playing experience that I expect out of regular games. But I will say one thing for each of these with arcades and with pinball machines. These are what I think Bill was saying. These are gateways, right? Like you are getting involved in something. It's giving you a taste and it wants you to get a little bit more for that, like an entry level experience for whether it be pinball or arcades. And I will say this, from a virtual pinball aspect, I remember the only reason that I ever looked for Scared Stiff, because I owned that game, was because I played it virtually, and I loved the callouts, I loved the gameplay, but I loved the rules. You know, virtual pinball is a great way, if you have options to play a bunch of different games, to play a game and figure out its rules to see if it's something that appeals to you before you go out and you buy something that's maybe from the 80s or the 90s. I think it's a really cool thing to be able to have as a reference point. So, yeah, I'm going to save the arcade one up. So that being said, totally understand that it's not the original thing. But again, not everybody's in a position to put a lot of money or has the space for that. So for what it is, I definitely say it's healthy for the house. I mean, you get people coming in, right? And then they work their way up. I mean, how do we all start? Yeah, 100%. And I think a lot of what we're doing here at Special Enlid, we want it to be healthy for the hobby. You know, let's talk about these things. Let's talk about what gets you interested. Let's talk about your expectations and things like that. But that's going to wrap up this edition of Drain It or Save It. Appreciate the user feedback. And if you didn't hear your submission on this week's episode, you might hear it on the next. all right i think we're ready to go into the next segment but before we do so i wanted to bring the creator the originator the man that brings us through the time machine and into the retro roundup and that is our close personal friend lucas pecky lucas welcome to the show hey thanks guys how's it going no it's going great how are you buddy what's happening i am doing just gym dandy. Thanks so much for inviting me to be a part of the show. It's a ton of fun. Lucas, drain it or save it? Tell somebody they've got a bat in the cave. We talked about this. You gave it to me. I don't know. Which end is the bat coming from? I guess there's a couple caves. The bat's coming out of the face cave. Which protrudes out of the nostril. So bat in the cave, drain it or save it. Do you tell somebody they've got a bat in their nostril? No, because I've never ever in my life heard that before. Never. You're going to confuse people. Okay. So I guess that is what it is. Thank you, Lucas. You're welcome. I want to ask you this. Now, from the pinball community standpoint, you're a pretty well-known guy. You've been out there. You're very active as an enthusiast, as a collector, somebody that's bought and sold pinball machines. You've done a lot for the community, and I appreciate it. But for somebody that might not know who Lucas Pepke is, who are you? What's your association with our podcast? And in general, what's happening with Lucas Pepke right now? Oh, man, that's a baited, long question. So I think I'm an OG special and lit podcast listener. It was probably one of the first podcasts I started listening to. And I don't know, I've always liked the rapport that y'all had. We're clinking our glasses right now. Thank you. Yeah, clink your glasses. Clink the Lucas. And, you know, it's been a weird couple of years, right? We had this global pandemic and I think it afforded us a lot of opportunities to connect with people. And I took those opportunities to connect with folks and just make friends. most of every single one of them I've never ever met in person right um but no I I like a lot of people I got into pinball through the arcade side so I started picking up games flipping games I was really into Nintendo cabinets um because I love Nintendo stuff and those are the best arcade cabinets fight me um I agree yeah you you know you you get your foot in the door and you're like oh, then you start to realize, I could have a pinball machine. That's really cool. So the story quickly goes that I was going to this barber for a while, and he brought in a Back to the Future machine by Data East. And I was taking my son, who was a little guy at that time, and he had never seen a pinball machine. And it didn't hit me until he was like, Daddy, what is that? And I was like, dude, that's a pinball machine. He's like, well, what is it? So I asked my barber, I was like, hey, can we turn it on? So we played Back to the Future, and I just saw his eyes light up. And then at that moment, watching him play, I was like, I've got to get a pinball machine, whatever it takes. Let me dump a bunch of games. So eventually I did buy his Data East, and it was trashed. I didn't know at the time. It was like Biff's face was blown off from the ball scraping under the spinner. It was a player's condition Back to the Future. The spinner didn't even work. But I was just so excited. The ramp was all busted. I was just so excited to have a game. I was like, this is fantastic. And the light show was fun, and the music was fun, and it was back to the future, right? So I think I picked it up for $1,000 back then. It was pre-pandemic prices. And Biff's face matched Marty's face in that game. That's butterface Marty, yes. Yeah. Butterface. So, yeah, so from there, you know, I found a RoboCop next. Ah, yeah. So I'm in the proper time zone that you guys are, but I'm in Birmingham, Alabama. So we do not have the, I guess, sheer amount of pinball machines in the market that you guys do. Right. And if they are, Wes Bentley is buying them already, so, you know, good luck. Our buddy Wes. Yeah, our buddy Wes. Shout out to Wes. Rebel Guitars. What's up, Wes? Yeah. What's up? What's up, Wes? So I have met Wes. He's one of the few pinball friends I have met just because he's about 45 minutes from me. And he bought, you know, Ken, we had been talking for a long time. Sure. I pulled a Ken Cromwell, and during the pandemic, I worked my way up, sold the Data East, and finally started to get into some newer sterns. So I had the Deadpool Pro and a Jurassic Park Premium, and I sold those when the pandemic hit to fund. an outdoor space so we could have, you know, friends and family gatherings. So Wes bought my Deadpool and then I think my Jurassic park went up to the Gatlinburg pinball museum or something up there. So, wow. Yeah, that's amazing. So then, then I went hot and heavy and really hard rebuying pinball machines last year. So I think within a year span, Lucas, well, I mean, yeah, we'll not, especially, well, yeah, before 2023, 2023 yeah with all the prices so right so i went from zero then you know having sold that stuff to getting oh gosh what i have guardians pro deadpool pro mando pro uh godzilla premium so uh yeah and i've got cactus canyon remake and monster bash remake so yeah i mean i'm trolling around on all of the groups like just staying active and engaged I like to throw out like one-liners and you know everyone loves a good gif here and there so that's kind of my involvement in the pinball land but well you don't shy away from content creation because I remember when we were streaming or at least so Bill and Steve are still streaming for Flip N Out Pinball and when When I was there, prior to working in the industry, I was also streaming with Bill and BD on Flip N Out Pinball. And the one thing that we had going from a streaming standpoint was Monday Night Pinball. That's right. And something that was very fun and was pretty well received in the pinball community was a new theme song that introduced Monday Night Pinball, which was based on kind of the Monday Night Football theme song. And that was something that you had constructed and had offered, and the playability is there. I mean, it was unbelievable. Yeah, baby. That was great. Yeah, you know, I would recut that. So Zach, I don't know, Zach reached out to me because he knew I could sing. And you're talking about Zach Many, who is the owner of Flip N Out Pinball. So, yeah, he reached out, and I cut that together with, like, a headset mic, like, really, really crappy quality. but um you know i was i was happy to contribute and just kind of honored to be asked but uh yeah that kind of started it but yeah to the content creation you know i've always wanted to you know that's why i love retro roundup is i'm a big geek i love talking about old school stuff nostalgia um and you know had messed around with some content creation with some friends and just always trying to get better, right? Always trying to learn new things. And on the side, we also have a, my, my wife and two of our friends run a book club. So we have an online book club called Literarily Wasted. And so I've learned a lot through that. And that's a fun book club because it's very interactive. You can get online, you're reading these books and you're interacting streaming wise. I've, I've been part of this as far as consuming it. And that's been out for, So is it three years? Four years. It'll be four years in June. So I've never read this much in my life. And it's a sci-fi fantasy. So it's all, you know, geeky, fun. Oh, can you hear my cat? There's one. You're going to get this. That's okay. Can you hear my wife? She just asked me to get something out of her car. Yeah, so we've been doing that for four years now. And you know through the pandemic we interviewed a lot of New York Times bestselling authors and it been a really good time really fantastic community And but you know I always been I not a reader at heart right It like I kind of got sucked into it because of my wife and I love my wife But it has been a lot of fun, and I've met a lot of great people, literally all over the world, and talked to some cool authors. You know, I've been doing that for a long time, and then I always dabble in something. And so I'm always writing, like, stories and working on other stuff and trying to produce and get better, and I call it failing upwards, right? It's like, well, I'll try this, and if it doesn't work, great. I'll take something, learn from it, and then try to apply what I did learn to the next thing, right? For sure, for sure. In our many conversations, I know your brain is always working. You're always kind of on to the next thing, but, I mean, you have a very intricate way of kind of weaving your web in content creation in general. Yeah, so I guess it's been three years that I've been kind of dabbling in audio and podcasting. And, you know, this all came about because I was working on this story with my friends about this space detective. And it was going to be this whole noir, goofy kind of tongue-in-cheek space detective story. And so I was like, well, shit, I don't know anything about audio and recording, really. so let me figure it out let me figure out how to make a podcast and i was like well i gotta find an audience that you know i can get some feedback on and put something out just to learn okay how do you make a podcast how am i going to record this so early 2020 um i picked up the microphone and started a podcast you may have heard of it it was called the macho pinball i don't even remember what the macho pinball pinball it's been so long since i've done this show whoa whoa whoa this is a bombshell bro that's a deuce i just dropped a deuce on pinball land dropped a bad macho pinball so okay so look i created wait whoa whoa hold on a second hold on you went very nonchalantly into this i'm i'm just i can't remember the damn name the macho pinball pinball podcast hold on a second i i know macho pinball pinball podcast if i remember correctly because this was one of my guilty pleasures in pinball back in the day it's the macho pinball podcast pinball podcast vlog show it's still in my it's still in my uh podcast at extreme wait a second man so i had speculated about who i thought might have been behind it because at the time when it had come out, I think it was very refreshing. And we can go as deep into the weeds in this as you want, because I for you to kind of, yes, for you to come out like this and say that you're, so you're the creator and the voice? I'm the creator, writer, voice, for better or for worse. Look, like all of this was, no way. So it was all truly an experiment to learn how to make a podcast and look for better for worse gotta love pinball gotta love the content that is in pinball but is a starved audience and so i knew it would get consumed i was like okay it doesn't matter what i put out there and how shitty the target market right look i know the target market i am in marketing um so i was like okay let me kind of get a rhythm let me make a short little consumable like toilet listen show and make it really stupid and um but it was great look it had a mess ton of of listens it really did and then you know i i had all sorts of delusions of oh my gosh how how could i actually bring this character to life at like the twiffies and then well guess what happened we had this you know covid mess right right right and so it really just kind of derailed me, derailed the show. And it was a ton of fun. And it's still there. Yes, yes. So, and I'm just, the thing that, I mean, floors me a little bit is that there's been, it's like urban legend of who Macho was. I'm caught off guard a little bit here. Like, this whole time he was cloaked and underneath this, I don't know, I'm a little bit stunned. So, all right. It's like urban legend hearing this, okay? I'm not going to believe it until I hear you actually say something in the macho voice. Ah, that's where you're going? All right. Now, before we ask for sound bites here for a second. Okay. Okay. So you go under this new venture under some anonymity? Yeah. Like I said, at the time, I was associated with an organization that, like, look, I respect them, and I'm a respectful team member. And so, like, I don't want to cast any kind of light that's like, oh, your employee is it would, you know, that's me reading so far into the future. But I think that way. Right. Like because I I like to lay those boundaries. So, yeah, it was it was all like fun and goofy. And like I said, like I sent Valentine's to all these people. Yes, I remember this. I think special one lit. I think we got a Valentine's. Yeah. Like, I mean, just stupid stuff. From Lucas. If I ever offended anyone or anything, it was all in fun. No, no, no, no, no. Like stupid, you know. Right. I will say this. It's totally humor. From somebody, like when we had our podcast going originally, I mean, we were very respectful of the industry, its creators, anybody that was dedicating time and effort. You were, in my opinion at the time, there's a lot of strong personalities that are involved in the content creation of Pinball, whether it be, you know, video or podcasts, this, that, and the other thing. And have somebody kind of come in and, for the lack of a better term, kind of take the piss out of the situation and to keep it real for everybody that was involved. That's what originally kind of got me involved into, again, my guilty pleasure in pinball was Macho Pinball. A guy that kind of kept it real a little bit without any malicious intent. It was just kind of poking fun but kind of reminding people, hey, guys, relax. We're all kind of in it together. Yeah. And to have you here today kind of saying that you're the guy behind it. Awesome. Totally blows my mind, man. I listened to all the macho. This is not where this was supposed to go. I have a macho pinball shirt. Screw the retro roundup, Lucas. We're not even going there anymore. Scratch it off. It's Lucas Pepe. So in the vein of failing upward, right? So at the time, you got to think like pinball in early 2020, everyone was putting out a podcast or something, right? like there was podcast galore and so i said okay i can't really take this macho character the way that i want to now and you know i kind of lost some steam on it and so i said well what's the next stupidest thing i can do and so i said well everyone's making a podcast and pinball now so what if a bunch of puppets did it um and so then i then i transitioned into the puppet power what Yeah. F***ing bomb! So, I am a musician. Oh, this is the ultimate two-for-one reveal. Wait a second. Yeah, yeah. All right. Actually, you know what? You're just coming clean, bro. I'm not going to talk. That's why I'm quiet. Yeah, I don't mean to interrupt. Okay, okay. You're blowing my mind. No, no, no. You're good. Go for it. So, I was a vocal performance major in school. So I sang professionally for years and I said, OK, what's the next stupidest thing in pinball? What if it's a bunch of puppets? Because how do you know they're puppets? It's audio. Right. And so, you know, just imagine these puppets like dancing and putting the show together. So I it was like a covid fever dream. And I was like, I'm going to make this. And so at the time, you know, Ken, you were with the pinball network. And I was like, I'm just going to send an email to them asking about, you know, if they'd be willing to take on this show hosted by some puppets. And it was I remember Zach reading kind of that email on the air. Yeah. So puppet pales in general. It's so stupid. Brilliant. Does that does that know this? Zach knows. Zach knows. There's some there's some select few folks that know. But, you know, again, that show has some really cringy moments for me personally where I'm like, oh, that's horrible. Why did I do that? But then there's some actually like kind of brilliant moments, I think. I just had one of the cringy moments with the bat in the cave. So I get it. Yeah, like there were some moments of maybe potential brilliance. And so, again, it's like, okay, fail upward. What am I going to do next? I don't know. I've got some ideas. Puppet Pals, I kind of got it to, I call it to intermission. So if you treat it like a musical, the show kind of ended with a curtain falling at intermission, and you're kind of in intermission right now. So it kind of gave me an opportunity to, like, step back, because I literally went into it with zero plan. Zero plan. And so, like, I was really writing it on the fly. And there is an episode that has been written. I'll just tell you what happens the next episode they were going to go and get washed in the blood of the goat at a church that worships Keith Elwin and there was going to be a goat sacrifice to propel the story it was going to get really weird Lucas the thing you did with Zach on the pinball show with Choose Your Own Adventure was f***ing amazing oh thank you so I wrote that in the night actually I was kind of proud of that one. That was really good. And I wrote it, you know, I scripted it, but then I gave Zach a false sense of choosing his path at the end where he didn't have a choice. He was going to die. Ah, nice. And he died. So, yeah, with our book club, that was another thing that during the pandemic I got like 40, I don't know, 40-some folks to write a Choose Your Own Adventure book. So I like assigned out. So that's the thing. I'm always trying to – I don't know. I don't know what my path is. I'm just trying to try – I'm throwing everything at the wall. Well, and here you are now. We'll see what sticks. You're with Special and Late. You're doing this retro roundup. We had a ton of positive feedback in your first kind of full submission on episode 91. We're looking forward to 92. Before we get into 92, because we do want to play the retro roundup, I do want to say this really quick. One, I guess thank you for kind of blowing our minds here a little bit tonight. Oh, absolutely. With the whole Macho Pinball and the Puppet Pails. I guess I never connected the dots. And to hear it here tonight, now I'm starting to kind of realize some similarities. Oh, look, when you listen to Retro Roundup, the introduction is totally just a ripoff of the intro of Macho Pinball. It's exactly the same. So, no, I mean, you start to see the cadences. Let me ask you this. Were you purposely leaving hints to see if anybody could figure it out? Not really. Wow. I don't know. I mean, now there's been like a time period now where I just haven't really even thought about it. Like, it's just like close the door a little bit because it was, you know, life changes, your priorities change. And it was fun while it lasted. I had a good time and I, you know, it opened some doors to just some conversations with folks and the ability to connect with other people. So if if if that's what I take away from it, it was worth it. And, you know, if if you laughed at it or got a chuckle here or there, that's worth it to me. It was worth it to me, too. Absolutely. So, you know, obviously very honored to be working with you again, like with some more creative content going forward, especially when lit. I don't know how long you want to stick around, but you're here for a long time, and if it's up to me, so please. You want to do a little retro roundup? Hang on. We got to do – Oh, pause. Hold on. We need proof that Lucas is macho. I got to – yeah, hold on, Paul, because I feel like I'm – God, it's been so long since I brought macho out. It's like I got to get angry. Oh, that's it. That's it. Yes, that's it. That's it. Hey, pinball baby. That's nice That's crazy You have to throw in there before So we have to be silent, let him say something I don't care what it is God, I don't even know I scripted it all How about you just say Macho never has a bat in the cave, baby That'll do it Hey, Macho's never got a bat in the cave, baby Let's go That's amazing. We believe it. It's not a good macho impression. It was like he kind of became his own thing, right? Absolutely. Do you got a little Steve and Moppy for us? Or do you want to keep that? Steve is always here, and he's just really so excited to be a part of the show. And Moppy's here, too. I'm really excited to be a part of the show, too. And Rory's here, too. Thanks so much, guys. Oh, man. All copyrights part of Lucas Pepke and the Pinball Network. Beautiful. And, hey, man, that's amazing. So I guess the proof's in the pudding. We heard it here tonight. Only on special. I guess so. I guess so. Nicely done, Lucas. The pudding might be sour or moldy now, but I appreciate y'all listening. So with that being said, gentlemen, let's wrap up episode 92 of the special When Lit podcast. You guys ready to wrap it up? Do you guys have anything in the corner that you guys want to talk about real quick before we end this up? No, this is like a two-parter because we're going to have one more this month. It is a two-parter. We've got another one this month. It's a longer episode. So, yeah, we're going to break this up just a little bit. Just a little bit. A little bit. All right. Sounds good. All right, so if you're looking to follow the show, you can do this on Facebook, Special and Lit Podcast. Bill, what's the Instagram? Special and Lit Pinball. And Steve, I need to connect with you on Twitter, and that's on me because you've been asking me for those credentials. And I do not know. I'll also say if you want to go ahead and email the show, you can email us at specialwhenlitpodcasts at gmail.com. Specialwhenlitpodcasts at gmail.com. And one other favor I'm going to ask you, if you're listening to the show right now, if you're ever interacting on our Facebook page, the one thing that we check, because we're very active on our Facebook page, we look at all the likes, we look at all the comments, we look at everything. I do notice there are a lot of people that have liked posts that have not necessarily liked the Facebook page. They don't follow the Facebook page. And that's okay because you know what? A lot of times I go on a page and I like some posts and then I go back and realize, hey, I never liked the podcast page. I never liked the show. So listen, if you're there, you're lurking, you're having a good time, all we ask is this. Go ahead, like the page. What it essentially does is it helps us with our algorithms because when we send a post out, I think right now we have over 1,000 people that like the show, that like the Facebook page. When we put a post out, it probably hits 300 people unless that algorithm hits because there's more interaction. So anytime you're in our Facebook page, if you like, comment, or share, it does help with the extension of where our messaging goes. That's just how Facebook works. Yes. But again, a humble ask. Anything you can do, really appreciate it. For Steve Beattie and Bill Webb, I'm Ken Cromwell. Everybody have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody. Gotta go. All right, dude, you're on a fucking roll. About what? No, about everything. Oh, I just run my mouth all the time, man. I'm just saying, you're on a roll. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: c0383274-e61c-40ee-b31c-5a2533205cbe*