# Episode 54 – 70% Skill. 20% Luck. 10% H2H shirt

**Source:** Head2Head Pinball  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2018-07-30  
**Duration:** 138m 14s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.head2headpinball.com/2018/07/30/episode-54-70-skill-20-luck-10-h2h-shirt/

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## Analysis

Head2Head Pinball Podcast Episode 54 covers major industry news including Chicago Gaming Company's official announcement of Monster Bash as their third game (following Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness), Stern's acquisition of the Godzilla license over Spooky Pinball with commentary from Charlie at Spooky on business vs. passion, Deep Root Pinball's mysterious Octo Assembly and rumors about Magic Girl artwork changes, Pirates of the Caribbean finally shipping, Thunderbirds manual credits including apparent John Popadiuk involvement, hands-on impressions of Heighway's Alice Cooper (praised for shooting and art despite incomplete code), and discussion of recent Stern code updates.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Chicago Gaming Company has regulatory approval for Monster Bash, Medieval Madness, and Attack from Mars each in Standard, Collector's, and Limited Edition versions — _Hosts reference government regulatory database where listeners discovered UL approval listings before official announcement_
- [HIGH] Stern acquired the Godzilla license over Spooky Pinball in a competitive bidding situation — _This Week in Pinball reported the licensing deal; Spooky's Charlie released statement confirming Stern won the TriStar/Legendary Pictures license for King of the Monsters_
- [MEDIUM] Deep Root Pinball's 'Quad Assembly' project is dead/canceled — _Robert Mueller interview mentioned; hosts note it was speculative project that never materialized_
- [LOW] Magic Girl artwork may be undergoing changes to make the iconic 2D Zombie Yeti art more 3D — _Martin heard in interview but admits uncertainty whether this refers to video assets, playfield art, or other elements; was listening in background_
- [HIGH] Pirates of the Caribbean single-disc version is finally shipping — _Ryan confirms playing single-disc version; hosts discuss that triple-disc version never materialized_
- [MEDIUM] John Popadiuk is credited in Thunderbirds manual acknowledgments — _Manual lists John Popadiuk among helpers; hosts note this contradicts earlier denials that J-Pop designed the game, but acknowledge uncertainty about extent of involvement_
- [HIGH] Keith Elwin confirmed that Jodie Dantberg (Stern) selects licenses and then asks designers if they want to work on them — _Martin attended Pinburgh seminar where Keith Elwin answered audience question about license selection process_
- [HIGH] Alice Cooper has incomplete code at this stage of development but strong shooting mechanics and art — _Martin played game multiple times at event and detailed specific feedback on shot placement, flipper feel, and learning curve_

### Notable Quotes

> "Three hours of energy every Monday morning, motherfuckers. That's our new tagline."
> — **Ryan C**, Opening
> _Self-referential humor about episode length; community complaint about commitment_

> "It is definitely the worst kept secret ever."
> — **Martin Robbins**, Monster Bash discussion
> _Captures the pre-announcement speculation and regulatory database leak that spoiled Chicago Gaming's news_

> "That was TriStar, not Toho... the big fish and will get whatever they are after in most cases... If that's just business, then I guess we have learned a lesson."
> — **Charlie (Spooky Pinball statement)**, Godzilla discussion
> _Official response from Spooky acknowledging business realities of IP licensing; philosophical acceptance of competitive loss_

> "I don't think it's a good license for Spooky. I don't think it's a good license for anyone. I just don't get the... In the current day and age, I don't think that many people care about Godzilla."
> — **Ryan C**, Godzilla debate
> _Skeptical take on Godzilla's current cultural relevance and market appeal_

> "When you actually are doing pinball, like, the pinball stuff, you don't care at all about, like, everything else that's going on."
> — **Martin Robbins**, Pinburgh reflection
> _Observation about tournament players' vs. media's different focus; tournament is about execution, not speculation_

> "The only reason why people bought that pinball machine because of that image that Zombie Yeti drew... they're changing it up."
> — **Martin Robbins**, Magic Girl discussion
> _Concern about potential changes to iconic artwork that may have driven collector interest_

> "If I want a Stern, I'll get another Stern."
> — **Martin Robbins**, Alice Cooper discussion
> _Appreciation for Heighway's departure from conventional shot placement expectations; values differentiation_

> "The code is not there. It's really, really not there."
> — **Martin Robbins**, Alice Cooper assessment
> _Honest evaluation that rules/features are incomplete but mechanical design is strong_

> "Well, there's always that real funny catchphrase with Wizard of Oz: 'What do you shoot for? Go for the flashing light.' Well, they're all fucking flashing."
> — **Ryan C**, Alice Cooper shot placement discussion
> _Community in-joke about Wizard of Oz's reliance on screen feedback over playfield clarity_

> "I just want Lyman and Dwight to finish coding that fucking game so he can work on another game. I'm being selfish here."
> — **Martin Robbins**, Batman code updates
> _Expresses frustration with Batman's extended development cycle; wants Lyman Sheets on new projects_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Chicago Gaming Company | company | Manufacturer announcing Monster Bash as third game in three-tier edition model; previously released Attack from Mars and Medieval Madness remakes |
| Stern Pinball | company | Acquired Godzilla license; recent code updates to Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy, and Batman |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Lost bidding war for Godzilla license; Charlie (founder) is passionate about the IP and released statement accepting business decision |
| Deep Root Pinball | company | Robert Mueller's boutique manufacturer; working on mysterious projects including Octo Assembly and reportedly modifying Magic Girl artwork |
| Heighway Pinball | company | Manufacturer of Alice Cooper and Thunderbirds; known for unconventional shot placement and strong artwork; John Popadiuk credited in Thunderbirds manual |
| Charlie | person | Founder/designer at Spooky Pinball; publicly passionate about Godzilla IP; released statement accepting Stern's acquisition of license |
| Keith Elwin | person | New Stern designer; confirmed at Pinburgh seminar that Jodie Dantberg selects licenses at Stern, then asks designers to work on them |
| Jodie Dantberg | person | Stern executive responsible for license acquisition decisions; negotiated Godzilla deal |
| Lyman Sheets | person | Code designer working on Batman ruleset alongside Dwight; hosts express desire for him to move to other projects |
| Zombie Yeti | person | Artist who created iconic Magic Girl artwork that reportedly may be undergoing changes to be more 3D |
| Robert Mueller | person | Founder/operator of Deep Root Pinball; gave interview to mr.pinball.com.au discussing projects and business |
| John Popadiuk | person | Legendary pinball designer; credited in Thunderbirds manual acknowledgments, creating speculation about design involvement |
| Ryan C | person | Co-host of Head2Head Pinball Podcast; attended Pinburgh tournament, played multiple games including Pirates of the Caribbean and Alice Cooper |
| Martin Robbins | person | Co-host of Head2Head Pinball Podcast; played Thunderbirds, Alice Cooper, and other games at event; attended Pinburgh |
| Crystal Gemnick | person | Pinball player from Riptide Podcast; played doubles with Ryan at event featuring Alice Cooper |
| Monster Bash | game | Chicago Gaming Company's third remake game; announced after regulatory leak; coming in Standard, Collector's, and Limited Edition versions with undisclosed additional features |
| Godzilla | game | Upcoming Stern pinball machine with King of the Monsters license (TriStar/Legendary Pictures); competitive bidding situation with Spooky |
| Pirates of the Caribbean | game | Jersey Jack Pinball game finally shipping in single-disc configuration; triple-disc version never materialized |
| Alice Cooper | game | Heighway Pinball game with strong shooting mechanics and artwork but incomplete code; unconventional shot placement requires player adjustment |
| Thunderbirds | game | Heighway Pinball game; manual released with John Popadiuk listed in acknowledgments |
| Magic Girl | game | Deep Root Pinball game with iconic Zombie Yeti artwork; reportedly undergoing potential aesthetic modifications |
| This Week in Pinball | organization | Pinball news publication that first reported Stern's Godzilla license acquisition |
| Pinburgh | event | Major pinball tournament where hosts played multiple games and attended seminars; Keith Elwin spoke on licensing process |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Chicago Gaming Company's Monster Bash announcement, Stern vs Spooky Godzilla license bidding war, Business vs passion in licensing decisions, Heighway Alice Cooper gameplay, code, and design
- **Secondary:** Deep Root Pinball projects and mystery, Pirates of the Caribbean shipping status, Stern code updates and ongoing development, Tournament play experience at Pinburgh

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.55) — Hosts express enthusiasm for Chicago Gaming's Monster Bash and Heighway's Alice Cooper design philosophy, but maintain skepticism about Godzilla's market relevance and Deep Root Pinball's communication style. Respectful discussion of Stern/Spooky licensing dispute acknowledges both business reality and Charlie's disappointment. Overall tone is engaged and knowledgeable but cautiously critical.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Stern appears to prioritize major theatrical licensing deals through Hollywood studios over boutique manufacturers; larger capital/distribution advantages (confidence: medium) — Charlie's analysis: Stern (via Jodie Dantberg) secured King of the Monsters (TriStar/Legendary/Warner Bros) theatrical release vs smaller Toho films; Spooky acknowledged as competitive but 'big fish' allegory
- **[sentiment_shift]** Skepticism about Godzilla's current market appeal and cultural relevance to modern audiences (confidence: medium) — Ryan expresses doubt: 'I just don't think that many people care about Godzilla' in current era; contrasts with existing Sega game from less innovative rules period
- **[design_philosophy]** Heighway Pinball intentionally places shots in unconventional locations for aesthetic and mechanical reasons, diverging from industry standard shot placement conventions (confidence: high) — Martin describes learning curve required; compares to Full Throttle's non-standard layout; appreciates differentiation from Stern's conventional approach
- **[event_signal]** Pinburgh tournament showcased hands-on game access and industry insider participation (Keith Elwin seminar) (confidence: high) — Martin attended and played multiple games; Ryan also present; Keith Elwin provided direct confirmation about Stern's license selection process via seminar
- **[leak_detection]** Chicago Gaming Company's Monster Bash, Medieval Madness, and Attack from Mars regulatory approvals discovered via government database before official announcement (confidence: high) — Hosts note listeners found UL approvals listing all three games in three editions each; company then confirmed via Facebook with no photos or details
- **[licensing_signal]** Stern vs Spooky Godzilla license competition indicates competitive IP acquisition landscape; TriStar/Legendary Pictures license for King of the Monsters went to larger manufacturer (confidence: high) — Charlie's statement confirms bidding war and acknowledges Stern as 'big fish' more likely to secure major theatrical releases; contrasts with Toho/indie film licensing opportunities
- **[market_signal]** Pirates of the Caribbean reaching market in single-disc configuration after extended development; triple-disc version abandoned (confidence: high) — Ryan confirms playing final single-disc version; hosts note extended delay and triple-disc expectations never materialized
- **[community_signal]** Potential John Popadiuk involvement in Heighway's Thunderbirds design suggested by manual credits, contradicting earlier denials (confidence: medium) — Manual acknowledges John Popadiuk among helpers; hosts note prior claims he didn't design game; uncertainty about extent of design vs. consulting role
- **[personnel_signal]** Zombie Yeti confirmed as artist behind Magic Girl's iconic artwork; potential concerns about modification to beloved design (confidence: high) — Martin attributes game's collector appeal primarily to Zombie Yeti's 2D illustration; expresses concern about reported move to more 3D aesthetic
- **[product_concern]** Alice Cooper has significantly incomplete code/rules despite strong mechanical and artistic foundation (confidence: high) — Martin explicitly states 'The code is not there. It's really, really not there' after multiple plays; notes learning curve similar to Wizard of Oz due to screen-reliant rules
- **[product_strategy]** Heighway's Thunderbirds manual credits suggest collaborative design process with acknowledged helpers including J-Pop (confidence: medium) — Manual lists comprehensive acknowledgments including John Popadiuk and other designers/consultants; suggests iterative development process
- **[rumor_hype]** Deep Root Pinball's 'Octo Assembly' project status unclear; hosts question whether Robert Mueller is joking or serious about project names and details (confidence: low) — Martin notes Deep Root founder's tendency toward vagueness and humor makes it difficult to distinguish real projects from jokes; Quad Assembly confirmed dead but Octo Assembly status ambiguous

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## Transcript

 Welcome everybody to the Head to Head Pinball Podcast. This is episode 54 and my name's Martin and with me... Ryan C with three hours of energy every Monday morning, motherfuckers. That's our new tagline. Three hours of energy every Monday morning. Correct. That's right. People have complained like early days and probably even still now that, oh, you know, it goes so long and, oh, you know, someone said to me recently, oh, you know, I have to go at, you know, 1.5 times. Yeah, that's fine. That doesn't bother me. If you get through it, you get through it. Three hours is a big commitment each week. And we know because it's what we do. I think it really does take people more than two days because with that Pinberg competition that we did for the Tin Stadium Lights, we only got like one entry in the first 24 hours. And I was like, holy shit, no one's entering. And then kind of a couple of days later, they all came flooding in. Flooding in. So it takes you a couple of days to get through. That's cool. It's a long week in between episodes. I think in future we will announce that we're doing a competition at the beginning of the episode so you know you can... So you can skip through all our fucking rubbish until that point and then put in your entry. Big week in Pimble. Lots of news to get through. Martin has been gallivanting around the US at Pimble. I have. we will talk about that later in this week in pinball but let's get to the news Marty there's been a lot of speculation regarding the announcement of Chicago Gaming's pinball number three it's fine I love it, I love it you still call it pinball but pinball number three because that's effectively been its title pinball number three in brackets Monster Bash yeah I mean it's been so long that people are like it has to be Cactus Canyon there's no way they'd take this long if it was anything else and this this and that anyway they posted an update saying hey guys it's coming soon you know we just got the approval, the UL approval or whatever it is and as soon as they said that someone went on the government website that has all of the listings there and found out that they have approval for Megaball Madness, Attack from Mars and Monster Bash in a standard edition, collected edition and whatever the other edition is C-E-L-E and S-E so special edition, classic edition and limited edition, sorry that's what it was so I think it's going to follow the same model obviously as Attack from Mars with all the extra features because these people found it out they kind of went off Facebook and announced Monster Bash with no photos, no information other than, you know hey guys you figured it out it'll be coming soon It was like, hey guys, sorry. Yeah, it is definitely the worst kept secret ever. The thing is, before they announced it, because this is kind of an announcement, they can take as long as they want and the clock really isn't ticking. People were going nuts. Like, oh my gosh, I really need a Monster Bash right now. But because they haven't announced it, there's no pressure or anything. But now it's when people kind of get a bit more antsy and are kind of climbing around to say, I want Allie and who do I buy it off? It is funny like that because without really – and you know what, Iron Maiden was kind of the same in that without an official announcement, time really isn't all that ticking. It's kind of like, oh, I know it's coming, but I have no concept of timeframe. But as soon as Iron Maiden was released, it's like, right, fuck, I've got to get it now, I've got to get it now, I've got to get it now. Now that Monster Bash has officially been announced, that everyone's now really excited because they know 100% it's real, the credit cards are out, ready to go. Yeah, I guess when people visually see it as well, that will be another milestone that gets people even more excited because obviously there will be some extra feature and it'll look different. Yeah, that's what they said, right? Yeah, they said, you know, obviously you know that we're making it, but the secret about what additional stuff we're doing with it hasn't been released. Yes, but they are hyping it up. Just tell us. Just tell us. We won't tell anyone because you know us. We don't report on news like that. They are pumping it up. I mean, they're really, you know, I'm not sure if I've ever seen a company kind of pump up something this much before it was released. I'm sure I can be proven wrong. It's not coming to me. You know, someone saying, hey. But how are they pumping it up? in their Facebook post they said like we know we're so like everyone here is super excited you know I'm paraphrasing here but like you know this feature is going to blow you away it's better than all of John Popper these games that he ever produced I don't know I'm paraphrasing I'm paraphrasing really adding stuff to it alright moving on moving on to I mean we're one week late on this news this kind of came out right after we did the last podcast but this week in Pinball kind of reported that the Gojira license went to Stern and not Spooky and there was some kind of bidding war. I think Jeff kind of reached out to both parties and they didn't kind of comment and I'm guessing in a couple of days we'll hear a story from Charlie on his podcast. They do a podcast on like the first of every single month. He did release a statement. Did you see that, Marty, on Pinsize? two reasons. Yeah. No. Yeah. Two reasons why no. Um, I don't really go to Pinside all that much and B, I've been playing pinball. Okay. How weird is it, Marty? So, I experienced this twice. When you, when you actually are doing, you're doing pinball, like the pinball stuff, you don't care at all about like everything else that's going on. Like, well, no, it's exactly right. And, I guess that's probably the, And obviously we are going to get to Pinberg, but, you know, Pinberg is a fuck-off tournament, right? It is just a tournament. So my throat is sore, my voice is a bit hoarse from the amount of talking that I've done, but there's not really all that much talk about, oh, speculate and what's happening in the news. It's actually all about tournaments. So that's really what I've been focused on is how do I play this machine and how do I blow this one up and do that piece. Which is kind of what pinball is, right? That's right. That's exactly right. When you're in the thick of it, it's about the moment. Yep. And, I mean, this podcast kind of exists, and you, the listener, are listening right now because you're probably not playing pinball. Like, I doubt people put headphones on and listen to the podcast while they're playing pinball. No? Someone did. Someone told me, I can't remember what it was, but there was a comp that we were at, and they went, look, I'm just going to put my headphones on. And I said, you know what? I'm going to listen to your podcast as I'm playing pinball. It fucking happened. I'm telling you now. Horrible. Great way to end. I'm not sure it helped. Okay, back on track. Okay, this is what he said. So everyone was kind of arguing back and forth whether or not Stern did the right thing by taking Godzilla license and not, I guess, letting Spooky have it. And Charlie responded and said, that was TriStar, not Toho, the same as the current films, Warner Brothers slash Legendary, not Toho. Toho is much smaller. Shin Godzilla only played independent and small theaters last year everywhere but Japan, while King of the Monsters will play every theater on the planet next year when Warner Brothers releases it. While it's not impossible to want that title more than we did, they are the big fish and will get whatever they are after in most cases. we were flapping our gums about Godzilla long before we were a company, so kind of hard to hide our love for that title now. If that's just business, then I guess we have learned a lesson. I have literally pushed titles that came here back to Stern because it was the right thing to do, but hey, that's just business, that's spooky. Such is life, and spooky is fine. Disappointments are going to happen. We move on. So, this is the debate, and this is what I want to talk about, Marty. So is what Stern has done, does that shed them in bad light? Because everyone knows how much Charlie's obsessed with Godzilla and how much passion he has for that IP. Or is the term, it's just business, like it's not personal, is that what you feel about this? Okay. So, okay. Here's what I think. Charlie loves Godzilla. Absolutely. But that doesn't make him the only person that loves Godzilla. And that doesn't mean that there are people at Stern that also love Godzilla or a design team that's going, holy crap, the things we could do with a Godzilla license. It would be absolutely amazing. So I... Because what I had originally heard was that they'd taken the license but weren't necessarily releasing a machine. If that happens, that's not great. But if they're releasing a machine, I don't even necessarily think it as that's just business. I think maybe that there are two people that see that there's potential in this license. And yes, Charlie has got a personal connection with that theme. So I don't know. I don't think this is a case of ones and zeros. Just because one person loves it and is passionate about it, nobody else can touch it. I don't agree with that. I'm not sure if I can build any more. with what you've said, but yeah, I mean, as you said, if you put your business hat on, then sure, crush your opposition and No, I don't even think it's bad. No, no, no. Well, I'm saying if you think of it from a business perspective, you know, a business's goal is to earn money and you know, it's not a public company, so they don't need to please stockholders or anything, but they still need to make money for everyone involved and keep everyone employed. Yeah, but I don't think they're doing this and saying, yeah, let's get it, we're going to crush Spooky. Like, I don't think it's that kind of thing. I think they're going, yeah, that's a shit-hot license. Let's do something great with it. Yes, it means that somebody like Charlie gets disappointed, but I don't think they're taking that license just to get at him or to, you know, make his business not be successful. I don't think that's the case. I mean, obviously, we don't know. Yeah. But I just think that, you know, it's probably a good license. I'm also just going to put this out here. You ready? Here, I'm going to put this out there. I don't think that's a good license for spooky. I don't think it's a good license for anyone. I just don't get the... In the current day and age, I don't think that many people care about Godzilla, but, hey, that's just me, and I'm not a massive thing-whore anyway, so a good pinball machine is a good pinball machine regardless. I don't know. Isn't there already a Godzilla pinball machine? there is I think it was a Sega Godzilla, it's not bad it's not bad it's not that it's not bad but it came out at an era where the rules were really uninspired every single Sega game every single Atari game and you know it's funny that because I don't know whether we were talking about it but someone was talking about the machine lost in space and how bad a game it is. And so I saw it at Pinberg and I thought, do you know what, I'm going to play this because I haven't played it since it came out. Surely it's not as bad as everybody says it is. It's every bit as bad as everyone says it is. And it's not just that it's... The layout's fine. It's okay. It's got ramps, it's got orbits, it's got a pinball. It's there. It's got a pinball. It's got a ball, right? It's got some flippers as well, and it's got the spinny disky thing. It's just nothing about it makes you feel like you're enjoying a game. Okay. Yep. And a lot of seagulls were like that. Another one, like Twister, was very similar to that in that, you know, you get into multiball and you shoot jackpots and that's it. You just hit a jackpot. Okay, well, I got a jackpot. Hit another jackpot. I don't feel good about hitting jackpots. it's those kind of games where if you get extra ball you feel whipped off that you have to play it a bit longer yeah I mean the last thing I want to say about the whole Godzilla thing it reminds me of Survivor right and I'm not sure how many Survivor fans there are out there Survivor Africa was the I think it was the third series and I was hooked absolutely freaking loved it. And when the next season came out, I said, you know, I just don't think I can dedicate my life to this show. It is such a commitment to follow everything. Yep, well, it's pretty much the only TV show that me and my wife watch together, and one of the only TV shows that I watch. So I'm still watching. I just find it intriguing how people can manipulate others to kind of step their way through the ladder and then get them to vote for them to win a million dollars. So, I mean, the relation to this, I guess, is there's always someone in every Survivor competition that there's this argument at the end that they say, I'm just trying to win a million dollars. I'm sorry I lied to you. I'm sorry I did this to you. And then the other person will say, well, this is real life. This is bigger than the game. And the person says, well, no, it's not because it is a game. And this is kind of the relationship here where everyone's saying that this is bigger than Stern just kind of making more money because, you know, Charlie's a good guy and we really want Charlie to be happy and get the Godzilla thing. And then the other argument is, no, it's not. It's business and... Well, I'm not saying... I just don't think that there's those two arguments. I think there's this argument in the middle, which is not necessarily about business. It's someone actually says, yeah, it's a really good license. I could get totally on board with this and feel really passionate about this license as well. Charlie is not the only person that likes Godzilla. That's what I'm saying. But do you... I know, I get what you mean, but do you think at Stern, the designers are the ones calling the shots saying, let's go after this license because I like this as a kid and I can make a really good pinball machine, or do you think it's Gary Stern and J.D. Dantberg saying, you know, this is the market research, this is going to make us money, let's go after this? Well, I actually have the answer to that. Do you want to know it? Yeah. Because I was actually at a seminar at Pinburgh with Keith Elwin, and somebody actually asked him that question and, you know, obviously he's new to Stern so it may be different, you know, for the different people but someone asked him, you know, do you get to pick the licence? And he said, well, no, that's Jodie's job. Jodie gets the licence and then says, do you want to do this licence? Well, that's right. So it is business versus personal thing. That whole survivor thing is what's happening, right? One person sees it as personal and this is my life, this is my passion and the other person is treating it like a business, I need to win a million dollars to win Survivor. I need to make some money. No, but as I'm saying, I just don't think this is binary. I don't think it's one or the other. There's shades of grey in between where someone... And, you know, it could be Jodie Dankberg that goes, do you know what? Fuck, Godzilla would just make a shit-hot machine. And it would make us lots of money. And we would stick it to Charlie. I don't know. You know what I mean? It's not like it's one or nothing. I think there's a grey in the middle. That's what I'm saying. All right. Moving on. There was an interview this week with Robert Mueller, the guy who's running Deep Root on... I don't know why we keep on getting that beeped out, but... Oh, there we go again. Yep, he must be not named yet. Well, I just want to find out here why we can't name him. Let's ask Google. Not at all, Google. Google, how come we keep on getting beeped out here when we mention... Hello, Ryan, how are you doing? I'm pretty good, Google. I haven't talked to you for a while. So, what's the deal? I must be beeped at one time for every time he's being an arsehole on his podcast. Okay, so we've beeped him a couple of times already. What's the tally up to now? He has been an arsehole 3,975 times, so I only have to be beeped 3,970 times more. Alright, that's cool. Anything else you want to tell us, Google? I'm really rich. Yeah, that's cool. We know Google's rich. What are you telling me this for? I bought the big trouble in little China Pimble license, so I never have to hear that f***ing thing again. I'm just going to sit on the license so that nobody else makes the machine. Okay, that's cool. Thank you very much, Google. See you later, f***. Moving on. So, yep, it was a good interview. A lot of information in there. Not really juicy information. It was very vague and speaking about, you know... But there's obviously one major thing that came out of it, and something is dead. Quad Assembly, guys. You know, we kind of joked about it and were speckling about it. That's gone. We'll never know what Quad Assembly is. It's pretty old news. Old news. Octo Assembly is there. And this is the thing. I don't know if he's taking the piss. He's just joking. Or if it's a real thing. And that's, you know what? I think that actually kind of discredits his business a little bit because you can tell that he's an incredibly intelligent person. okay this guy love it and he's probably really good at running a business maybe i don't know when when i feel like half the stuff he's saying is just so that me and you sound like idiots talking about something that doesn't exist right you know me like me and you joke around so much marty that i'm sure people like well i'm sure people are like are they are they for real this time like when we said that slam tilt is is suing us like as soon as people believe that i was like no guys it's a joke but we're not trying to sell anything when you kind of like joke about stuff and people will no longer know when you're telling the truth or not and you're trying to sell something i'm not sure if that works in your favor but um i am looking forward to seeing what what what comes out of there you know we say it all the time they haven't really shown anything yet but jeez so they've got so many people on board you know see about it see what i am i am so looking forward to being so sore after five days. That's different. Mate, they're changing Magic Girl. They think that Magic Girl is too 2D and needs to be more 3D. They're one of the most iconic images. The only reason why people bought that pinball machine because of that image that Zobby Eddie drew. Apparently, they're changing it up. I'm not sure if they're changing the... What? Yeah? What do you... No. Wait. What? What? No. I've got to listen again because I was just kind of I was just listening in the background while I was fixing pinball machines but I'm pretty sure, I'm not sure if he's talking about the video assets, that the video assets, like the monitor on the pinball machine well, I'm not sure or I'm not sure if he's talking about the actual artwork on the place or all the trends like that I hope it's not the artwork because if there's anything that does not need to change on that machine, and you know when we streamed Houdini a few weeks ago So at MrPinball, that's mrpinball.com.au, we went out the back to the warehouse where he's got a magic girl, and I was just, it was not turned on, and I was literally staring at it, just doing my biz all over the artwork. It is just spectacular artwork in every, every way. And it's also one of those things which I love, is that the more you look at it, you start sort of zooming in and you start seeing things you hadn't seen before. That's, oh my God, it's so good. Just don't turn it on and play it. Yeah, if you zoom in far enough, you'll notice that the game doesn't work at all. Anyway, so you can go check out that, you know, that interview if you'd like on That is Okay. Okay, in other news, Marty, Pirates of the Caribbean revealed in, was it October last year, 2017? It is finally on the line, Marty, on the line. Fantastic. That's great news. Great news. I'm sure it'll take a couple of weeks to kind of, well, maybe a couple of months to ramp up, but good news that people will start to receive them soon. It is the one disc version. I know people were holding on to some kind of small chance that, you know, hey, they're taking long because they're figuring out the triple disc thing. That's long gone. Triple disc no more. Yeah, I got to play it yesterday. I really do love the way it shoots. So, good on them. Bring it on. Did you get pretty deep into the game or was it just a quick fly-by game? It was just a quick flip. Okay. Have I played the single disc version? I don't think so. I think, no, I don't know. No, I haven't. No, I don't think we have. No. Mr. Pinball still has the Triple D's version Like hiding away in his warehouse Yeah he does Apparently he's not allowed to let anyone play anymore That's for Super LA I'll buy nothing What else Thunderbirds money They released their manual Have you seen this You haven't seen anything So just say no to everything But I obviously haven't Manuals are good in Pinball I mean Highway Pinball didn't even release a manual he, on one of the pages it says, HomePin offers a sincere thanks to the following companies and people for their assistance or guiding ideas no matter how small or large in no particular order, Bally, Williams Stern, JQP Companies all HomePin Thunderbirds pre-order customers, Karen, Sid Benjamin Heckendon Federico Barbato, Roger Bergen, I'm just to join these names. Yeah. Grant Higgins, Sasha Voskal, Amanda Sun, Eddie, just Eddie, E-D-Y. Is that, is that Eddie Simmons? Eddie Simmons, yep. Nice. I know that guy. Mr. X, which I'm guessing is some anonymous guy that doesn't want to have his name out there. James Shaw, Andrew B, and the last one, Marty, can you guess who the last one is? You haven't looked this up, have you? Look, no, you told me not to look this up. Okay, I'll give you a hint. enigmatic pinball designer. Oh, really? Social justice. John Puppadoog. John Puppadoog. Okay. I find that really difficult to believe, but keep going. Well, yeah, John Puppadoog. So he somehow, I mean, I remember a long time ago, like three years ago, people were saying, like, who designed Thunderbirds? And people, I think Mike said, it's some like really, really super duper well-known designer and people were like, it's J-Pop. And he's like, no, it's not J-Pop at all. Well, there's no designers in here unless it's Mr. X, besides John Pappadoo. So you played it on the weekend, Marty. There's no way it could have been John Pappadoo that designed that game, right? Well, you know what? I did get to play Thunderbirds a couple of times. And on our Facebook page, I said that if it was really good, we'd do a full review. I also got to play Alice Cooper. So it is a great shooting game. One thing I really liked about this thing in the flesh the art really stands out. It doesn't do it justice in pictures, mainly because I think the artwork is lots of shades of green. But up close, it looks great. Did you get to see the butter cabinet that I was assessing over at TPS? I did look at the cabinet, and it didn't... I would say probably not is the answer, because it wasn't sort of like... I thought you were saying it was kind of hard glass or something. Is that right? Yeah, like deep colours. Yeah, it didn't look that way. So, yeah, and I got to play it quite a lot. I had a chat with Bowen about it as well. He's working on the code. The best thing about Alice Cooper is it shoots really well. I actually like the way it shoots. I like the flipper feel. I thought that was the biggest downside to it. You know, I like everything else, but I felt like, yeah, I guess we're going to see this screen. Some of the shots are a little bit awkward. I will give it that. And, oh, God, I don't know whether I should do this sort of parallel, but don't kill me for this, guys. But, you know, when I remember playing Full Throttle for the first time, you look at it and you go, oh, my God, it looks amazing. It's got all these different shots. but the shots were never really where you were expecting to be. And I think it's because we are so conditioned. I was having this conversation only a couple of days ago. We're conditioned that a ramp should only be here, here and here. And you've got probably five millimetres either way that you can move these so they feel a little bit different and fresh. But ultimately, you can only put your shots in these particular locations. and I think Highway and I think Alice Cooper is in that boat where they've thrown that rule book out and they've gone, no, no, no, no, no, we're going to put these shots here because that's where they look good and that's where it feels good for us and people, you need to adjust your play style because these shots aren't where you expect them to be. Okay. And first game, I was kind of like, oh, I'm bricking all my shots, I'm not getting them and they're not, some of them are actually really quite tight, some of these shots, I will say. Like, you know, we said that Houdini's got some tight shots. Alice Cooper's got some really tight shots. I'll give it that. But by about my fourth and fifth game, I knew, obviously, I'm not, you know, a pro player, so I can't nail it all the time, but I was getting them more and more the more I played because I have to adjust to the game. And I kind of like that because if I want a stern, I'll get another stern. Okay. So, yeah, I was really, really impressed with Alice Cooper. The code is not there. It's really, really not there. And they're going to be showing the stream tomorrow with Deadflip. I think it's tomorrow. So surely it's going to be. I know. But I was putting your code in there. What I think it is, I think they've taken a bit of a leaf out of the Wizard of Oz school of, you know, learning curve. Like, you don't... You've really got to read up on this, because the inserts don't really tell you what you're doing, is what I'm going to say. Well, there's been hardly... Ah, okay. Well, there's been hardly any... I think most of it's on the screen, which you know. That's right. Yeah, okay. You play the play field, not the screen. Okay. So that's the challenge there. And that was one of the biggest criticisms of Wizard of Oz as well. As you know, there's always that real funny catchphrase with Wizard of Oz, what do you shoot for? Go for the flashing light. Well, they're all fucking flashing. Have you not heard that? I can't believe you've not heard that before. That's the ongoing joke about Wizard of Oz. You need to look at the screen and you need to go hold the flipper and go to some of the information You weren't playing a home use only you know, a home environment you were playing at the super duper like there was like 500 machines there or something so you probably couldn't hear it I'm sure Mr. Alice Cooper himself is telling you what to shoot for He is, and you're right, you couldn't hear it but, you know, remember the other criticism that people were saying was that oh, you know, Alice Cooper sounds a bit flat and all that kind of stuff it absolutely suits this game. Okay. I really actually quite liked the call-outs. I liked the music. I liked the sound effects. I loved the scream. You sang the scream. I loved the scream. Yeah. I loved the scream. In fact, I was playing, I had a game of doubles with Crystal Gemnick. Hello, Crystal. She's amazing. From Riptide Podcast. And we did this one where she hit the, I think it was the, might have been the left door, and it did that scream and we both just looked at each other and went, that's cool. Dude, really, I really like it. You know what it is? I think it's the whole Houdini thing. When you're watching a stream and you're using a snowball mic or whatever mic you're using, it must pick up high-pitched screams way more. Like the Houdini laugh that just sounds horrible on the stream. And when you're in there in person, you can't really hear it. It's not as obvious. At all. That's right. That's exactly right. So, Jack Danger, if you're listening, make sure you adjust all the settings so that the screen is, you know, Anyway, moving on from Alice Cooper. So, you're saying, are you telling me that Alice is on the line, though? I think I wrote that down, but I think they've delivered one or something. Because they've delivered one, and so they'll get their feedback, and then they'll do whatever they need to do. But I think there's a lot of promise with Alice Cooper, is what I'm saying. Okay. Code updates. There was three Stern code updates this week. Star Wars was just a normal system update. I think just... I think there's a system update now that you can control the speakers more and... Yeah. It's like a behind-the-scenes kind of update, so they want to upgrade every machine to that. So, Guardians of the Galaxy was bug-fixed and a system update. Batman now has two new minor villains, just to act as a list of a million minor villains. Can I just say this? I just want Lime and Cheat to finish coding that fucking game so he can work on another game. I'm being selfish here, but like... Okay, Ryan. Ryan, how long ago did I say that? How long ago? Just see if you can remember how long ago it was when I said, do you know what? It's all well and good that he's working on Batman, but I wish he would stop because there's other games that I wish he was working on. Well, every time I update... Yes, okay. You're six months ahead of me, Marty, in intelligence and thought. No, it's not about that. It's more so, but that was like six months ago. Come on, Lyman, please. Yeah, every time he does an update, I think, okay, well, this will be it, and then it'll be done. No, it's going to take forever, and it's going to be like the end of 2019. Like, ah, this is the new game that Lyman's working on. Like, all right, I can get excited again. Well, so speaking of Lyman, sorry to do this one, But, you know, obviously, I don't know whether we did speak about the fact that he was on the Slam Tilt 100th episode. You're that tired and all over the place, Marnie, that you don't remember that we did talk about it for like two or three minutes. Well, did we? But did we talk about the fact that... Because I met Lyman. I might have actually played... Have you washed your hands, Marnie? Have you washed your hands since? I did shake his hand. I think he might have gone for a fist bump and I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, Lyman. I didn't travel all around the fucking world just to get some fucking knuckles, man. I need full palm exchange of bodily. There you go. But all I was like... And all I kept thinking about whenever I saw Lyman is like, oh, Lyman, you were supposed to work on Star Trek. Was he? Meant to work on Star Trek? Yeah. Did you not give me that? No. Maybe. We didn't talk about it, Ryan. He said that he was scheduled to work with Steve Ritchie on Star Trek and then got moved off it before it started. Oh, to work on the... On the closest to Star Trek. Yeah. No, it might have been. But just imagine that Imagine Lyman Sheets having done the rules for Star Trek Let it sink in That what I want I want like No no no sorry I've always wondered, like, just a really simple layout. Like, what can you do with that? I mean, Lord of the Rings doesn't have, like, a super simple layout. People call it a fan layout, but as Keith P. Johnson said, you can make a simple layout good by having diverters and things like that. Yeah, of course, right. Star Trek, I guess you can divert into the pops. It doesn't have diverters for the ramps or anything. I don't know. If anyone can work out... Okay, well, think about Walking Dead, right? Walking Dead does not have a complex layout, and there's not a lot of diverters, there's not a lot of inserts, it's just there. So he could make magic out of that. Well, okay, you said there's not a lot of diverters, but there's two ramps on the game. and four different things can have with those two ramps. You can hit the bicycle girl shot, you can hit the bicycle girl shot, and then the ramp goes up and you can smash her face. On the early and premium, yep. Yep. The right ramp, you can hit it and the arena shot, it can go all the way around, or a magnet pulls it into the crossbow. On the premium and early, yep. Yep. I mean, I don't want to talk about peasant pros, okay? Even though... I'm just joking. Anyway, so... But anyway, my point is, I wish we could just turn back time and get him to work on Star Trek because that would have just been an absolute masterpiece. You should sell your game, Marty. Obviously you're unsatisfied with it. Well, I've now got Iron Maiden. I've totally moved on. Do you have Iron Maiden, Marty? Do you have Iron Maiden? Well, I own Iron Maiden. It's still at your house. Are you enjoying it? I am. I am. I'm taking your advice and not playing it 24 hours a day. Thank you. Like once or twice a day max. Yep. But they are quite long games. Anyway. The very first thing I'm doing when I get back is actually looking at the play count. Okay, I'm re-seeing it tonight and... Okay. Awesome. Shall we... Do you slam this up 100? Yep. Shall we recap on what happened last week? Sure. I absolutely destroyed you again. Congo's an inferior game. Bloody blah, blah, blah. You know what? It was always going to be difficult when you've got a game that people, they might not have played, but at least they know, versus a game that they don't know at all. Yeah, 500 units back in the 80s or whenever it was. No one's played it. Except for people at Pimberg. Did you play it this weekend, Marty? Andromeda? No, I didn't I actually nearly did and I'm pretty sure I saw it but it was, I think it was 15 minutes before they were closing the doors and I just I was I was pinballed out I really was pinballed out Too busy playing Thunderbirds So yeah, I think Congo won like 80% to Andromeda's 20% I do have the big gift, but cats can't always win. I know. Let's go again, Marty. Okay. Please generate a number from 0 to 100. All right. Make sure I un-sync my Bluetooth headphones this time. One. Ah. Oh, no. Unbelievable. Sorry, you can't do Attack from Mars again. What are the chances? Please generate a number from 0 to 100. You've got 100 now. Fucking better than that. Which is America's most haunted? 43. Fish sales. Fish sales. We've gone through sales. I did that gif of the guy fishing. Please generate a number from 0 to 100. Alright. 100. Oh, are you fucking kidding me? Are you serious? America's Most Haunted This is rigged Ah fuck me Alright You watch I'm gonna get 99 Which is Paragon We should just destroy America's Most Haunted Okay Please generate a number From Oh fuck That's so fucked up Please generate a number From 0 to 100 Coming right up 59. 59. Andromeda. Ah. Please generate a number from 0 to 100. All right. I'm going to leave all this in so that people know what we have to do. 90. Ah, yes. That's pretty high up. Jodie Harry, we've already done it. Did you say 90? Yep. Please generate a number from 0 to 100. Sure. 38. Game of Thrones. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Have we done that? No. Good. We'll destroy Game of Thrones. I will absolutely annihilate Game of Thrones. Horrible, horrible game. I do own one, but horrible game. Okay. Okay. Let's do it. You're up first, Marty. Okay. I'm going to talk about Game of Thrones, and the first thing I'm going to talk about is, yes, the art sucks. Okay? So you can go on about it as much as you like. Yeah, just give us your new strategies. Oh, yeah, Sean Trudeau did things. You can't say this. Did you say it? Yeah, all right. You like it? Yeah. It's my new method. I'm rocking it. Bullshit. But the thing about the artwork is that over time, it didn't matter because the gameplay is actually really good. The layout is a really good Steve Ritchie layout, a little bit unconventional for him as well. Yes, it's flow, but it's really interesting because it's a flow game with a stop-start rule set. So it actually really has to make you think about what you're doing strategically on the fly, which is a really interesting way of being able to play a modern stern. I do like the houses. And yes, Ryan, you're going to talk about the fact that everyone only picks one or two houses. There you go, there's my method again. But it's still really fun to work through battling all the other different houses, you know, getting to Hand of the King, then getting to Iron Throne, light shows great love the layout could do without the upper play field on the premium and the LE but overall it is a really solid game that has just aged really well there you go Game of Thrones America's Most Haunted I've owned this machine it was great fun I've never ever laughed and I've said this before on the podcast you know this is not bullshit I don't think I've ever laughed more in a pinball machine than in America's Most Haunted because the call-outs are fantastic. It's that weird, quirky nerd humour that Charlie's whole family has that I enjoy. Designed by Ben Heck and Charlie. You've got some good shots in there. I'm not going to say it's as good as a shooter as Game of Thrones. Okay, going up against Steve Ritchie here. You've got a jump ramp. You've got that big shot in the middle with the magnet that holds the ball. You've got a shot through the pops. You've got some cool skill shots. You know how to control your balls. Sexual connotations there. Everyone loves that. Alvira without the boobies. And it's got a good sound system. It's very well built. There's only 150 of these, okay? This is a good investment. America's Most Haunted. Spooky's first pinball machine. Sold out. America's Most Haunted. There we go. Cool. So my rebuttal is, if it was so good, you would still own it. you could not get rid of it quick enough. I had it for about a year, Marty. Yeah, couldn't get rid of it quick enough. If it was that good, you would still have it. I know that because you keep machines that you really like. But do you know what? I will agree. I actually found the call-outs in America's Most Haunted hilarious, and I did laugh out quite a lot as well. I actually do like it. the biggest problem with it is that it is too fast, too brutal, and the rules just aren't as polished as they need to be. It's almost like they are deliberately difficult because that's how Ben had liked them, whereas it was more sort of like, think about the player's experience and what they would want to enjoy. That's the missing thing. Oh, I can use that same argument for Game of Thrones, Marty. Go for it. It's okay. Think about what the players would like on Game of Thrones. They would like light flashing in their faces. Yeah, okay. Okay, let's just... This is going to be, you know... This might go for a little bit long, okay? So don't fucking say my time's up. No, just like I'm a... The artwork, okay? The artwork isn't the worst... It isn't the worst artwork ever on a Pimor machine, but it is the worst artwork... It's most haunted. it is the worst artwork ever for a property that deserves good artwork, okay? Game of Thrones, watch it on HBO, it is a beautiful world, there are so many details in the background of every scene, okay? The costumes, you know, the backdrop, and then what do you get? There's a couple of gears in the intro of Game of Thrones, this has like nothing to do with the, you know, the little opening intro, the na-na-na-na-na-na, and like, okay, let's go with that, Let's just pass the gears all over the fucking playfield. Nothing to do with the actual, you know, thing. There's no characters on there. There's no dragons. Nothing. Okay. So that's art. Okay. Zero out of ten. The layout, yes, it shoots well. It's a Steve Ritchie game. All his games shoot well. Except for the Premium and the LE, who has that diverter. That's meant to divert into the pops every once in a while. It didn't work out of the box. Stern kept on producing them. Steve Ritchie said at a couple of conferences that he would fix it. I'm guessing it was out of his hands. It never got fixed. It got coded out of the game. So in the next update, the ball would always go into the pops. So that restricts your flow. The upper playfields. This machine got released around the same time that the Hobbit got released. And you look at the Hobbit, and you look at that, and it's just night and day. The castle. The upper playfield is meant to be a castle. it is literally like just plastics printed with a brick layer and you compare that to say Wizard of Oz who the castle is actually a castle you can feel the bumps on there super cheap looking huge, takes up the play field people say it's fun it's not, the Pro is better we've said that on the show before Marty waste of money the Pro is definitely the better machine, there's no doubt about it But if you really are going to only really talk about how a game looks, which is like 90% of your argument, you've got to know that America's Most Haunted could well be the worst artwork in recent memory. It's got three printed parts, Marty, which means that... I'm talking just a play field art. It's just... It's as tough as steel, Marty. No ghosting, okay? A million ball drops on there, Charlie tested it, and it still doesn't ghost. A million, Marty, a million. Okay. But that's probably because there's no GI, so you can't actually see the playtime. Okay. Well, let's talk about lighting then. So the object of the lighting in Game of Thrones is to fucking blind you, okay? Winter is coming, okay? the most annoying fucking mode in pinball because it locks you out of everything, okay? You hit a shot that you think is going to do something and it's like, no, your own winter is coming, you dickhead. You cannot get out of this. Hey, you want to time it out? I'm going to stop the fucking clock, okay? So you have to make another shot, another safe shot, or hit this shot. No, I don't want to play this fucking mode. I don't want to. At least let me time it out. Why are you forcing me to make this shot? I know. I hate you. I've got to concede. The problem with that is that Winter Has Come is such a fun multiball, but it's just a pain to get to it. And so on my stream when I was doing, when I was streaming Gamma Thones when I had it, I would always go for Winter Has Come multiball just because I really enjoyed it. But you're right. The game forces you to either do that or do all your houses. You can't sort of do both. It locks you out of the game. I totally get that. Yep. It's good that it's actually got modes that are enjoyable. The one where the stripper ghost takes that guy away and he's like, oh, no. That's pretty fun. Yeah. Brian Kelly voice. Hashtag me too. Sure. All right. It's a female stripper, Marty. It's okay. It's okay, yeah. Yeah, that's how Striplady works. Okay. Lastly, you know, so yes, it blinds you. I think we're still going. The last thing is the code. If you said I'm just going to go back to art, the last thing is the code. The code is too hard to understand for the average person. Even Colin MacAlpine couldn't tell you how to increase. The guy who won Pimberg, the guy who's rated in the top 20 players in the world right now. Yeah, not this year. That's okay. He's rated in the top 20 players in the world. So you think that he would understand the rules. He doesn't even know how to increase the super jackpot value in the main multiball money. Why? why is the super jackpot worth 17.35, blah blah blah all these fucking numbers, why why does it matter what it's worth oh it's like you care about that stuff because because it's points money it's what people are all about, getting points right, anyway the it's a math equation the entire ruleset is a massive math equation. Do you like doing math? You will like this game. The problem you've got is you are arguing against something that has got art that doesn't live up to its expectations, but the art is massively superior to America's Most Haunted. No, it's not. You are complaining about... No, it's not. America's Most Haunted art is shocking. It is absolutely fucking dreadful. Anyway, then you're going on about Game of Thrones rules and they are better rules than America's most haunted. It's expectations, Marty. Yeah, no, I get that. When I lie to you, Marty, it's not a big deal. When the Prime Minister or the President of the country lies, there's an inquisition. This is what it is. It's expectations. This is one of the biggest licenses ever. It's still relevant. No, I get that. but what we're saying here is where those two machines side by side you would own a Game of Thrones over an America's Most Haunted that's fact okay Marty what happened when I got it back from you I put it in my garage and I put it on site I didn't even want to accept it into my house yeah because you just knew that we would argue this one day and you didn't want to well I knew I was going to make a shit load of money because it's it's Game of Thrones because it's a better game and no one bought it because it's most haunted on site what would it make the playfield would never go smarty. Unless I got pinned stadiums because you said you can't see. Anyway. Hey, there's a lot of good ghost gifts that I can put on there. I'm not sure if I can get a good Game of Thrones gift, so... Come on, guys. I've lost, like, how many weeks in a row? Let me win this one, please. I'm begging you. Should we do... Before we get to This Week in Pinball, Marnie, should we do our competition or... Actually, no, we'll do that after This Week in Pinball because it's related to the results. Yeah, we'll force everybody to listen to my Pinball story. Yeah. So I want to go first, Marnie, because mine will take two minutes. So I went to the Bayside Pinball competition this week. I had... The format is you play three games and your scores get added up together, but they get weighted because, you know, So Ghostbusters is, you know, you can blow up that game, but you can't blow up Simpsons. You get a super high score on that. So Nigel had this insane game on Ghostbusters where he got $2 billion, which raised the weighting of everything else. I had the most pathetic games I've ever played on Ghostbusters. I had like $13 million on Ghostbusters, $20 million on Aerosmith. So I was just like having fun and ready to go home. But then the last game I was put on Simpsons, and the weighting of that was like 25 times or something. So all I had to do was get like 12 million and get into the finals, which was, I don't know, I don't know how I feel about that because I don't think that I played well enough to do that. The garrison was half working, enough to make me lock two balls and then stop working. But yeah, I did get enough to get into the finals and proceeded to get knocked out on that, but that was good fun. I did have a quick chat to Luke Marberg, who is the head of IPA pinball in Australia, and I had a quick chat to him about what went on during the Flip Frenzy thing. I can't go into too much detail. I mean, I wasn't privy to, you know... I had a conversation about it too. Yeah, so stuff is going to happen and they're not treating what happened lightly. And let's just say that the people that did what they did aren't really getting... Typically it's cheating. Yes, yes. Because I remember you said, oh, well, if they do that, it's kind of okay. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but we just didn't know. But I had that conversation and they did investigate and it is cheating. Yeah, no. Well, no, I was wrong. So, because there is a clause in the IFR rules that says that you are not allowed to, I'm paraphrasing here, but like collude with players to benefit yourself and alter the outcome of games. And that's what agreeing to play a one ball game is. So, it is technically, I mean, the word cheating isn't in the IFR rules, but it's typically... No, of course. frowned upon and they have the right to disqualify you because of that. Well, yeah. Do you know what? A lot of people, well, you know, there were some Australians over there, but there was other people as well, and people were sort of like, geez, because I obviously, I kind of went a little bit off last week about this because it really did disappoint me a lot. And I'll just very summarize last week where, you know, Flip Frenzy is such a fun format. And honestly, everybody, if you are in Chicago Wednesday night, go to Logan Arcade because Jimmy Nails from Netherworld, whom we had on the show and we talked about this, he's doing a Flip Frenzy and Jack Danger is going to be streaming it. So, go along to Logan Arcade on Wednesday night because you will experience the most fun pinball format there is, particularly but not limited to the novice player. Because you just have a minimum amount of time, three hours of the maximum amount of games that you can play. And you just get paired up with so many different people and it's fun, it's chaotic, it's crazy. And I love this format. And for people to find a loophole, it just really, really disappointed me. And I sort of went off and I said, you know, those people are cheats, and I called them that. I didn't know technically they were cheating, but, you know, we've had it confirmed. And it's just, you know, I don't even know whether it needs to go any further. I just think people need to know that I am personally disappointed. I know. Well, that's what I'm saying. It will go further. and I guess a statement kind of needs to be made so that people know not to do it, right? Yep, absolutely. Anyway, so I finished Aiden at competition. I streamed Tron on Wednesday. That was fun. I did that with Peter Burtico. And then last night I streamed Iron Maiden. I guess I don't really have too much to say except for there's two things I noticed about Iron Maiden. One, when you drain after, I think, five Icarus, I think he says more like Air Force Done instead of Air Force One. So it's pretty funny. Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert, yep. Here's another massive spoiler, Marnie. If you're playing Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner, how long is that song, Marnie? 20 minutes? I think it's like 13 minutes. Okay, I knew it was going to be long. Yeah. So, when you play ball to ball, it'll continue on with the song. But if you jump into a mode, which is pretty easy to get into at the start, or a multiball, it changes the music and then it goes back to your song, but it continues on. But, I mean, Rival of the Ancient Mariner changes kind of tone about seven minutes in or so. So, seven minutes of play without being in a mode is quite hard. I had a bit of a long game yesterday, and I got to that bit, and the whole feel of the pinball changes, because it's at this kind of like somber part of the song, the shaker motor turns off, Marty, and the call-out, some of the call-outs stop, and it just gives you like a sound effect, and it was such a weird moment in pinball I've never experienced before, because, you know, it's high-engine music, and you've got this call-out, and you've the shaker going off and this bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And that kind of wouldn't work with that part of the song. And it was just a really cool moment that you get to experience. Just that moment of serenity. Yeah. Well, as I said, you make shots, but it's just like this weird calming thing. And then I hit the sarcophagus shot to lock the ball from having multiple and the shaker motor usually goes mental and it just didn't go off at all. So they're purposely programmed to match up with that mode. Unless there was a machine malfunction that just happened. It just happened to happen during that point. Keep listening now. And he does. And he's going, dude, that's not meant to happen. Did you just report that as a bug? I'm hoping that was on purpose. I'm pretty sure it was. It may be too much of a coincidence to... Anyway. Martin, have you been up to anything at all this weekend, Marty? No, not really. Not really? Okay, moving on. Let's go... You're at Pindog, Marty. the world's biggest pinball competition ever in the world. Well, okay, so... $100,000 worth of prize money, Marty. $100,000. Yep. And do you want to know how much of that I got? How much money? No, nothing. Nothing? That was obvious, obviously. I was looking up money. So just before you jump in and talk for three hours about Pinberg, the entry fees for Pimberg are about $101,000 and the prize money like over $100,000 so what the hell where do they get the money to run this event when they're giving you all the money back to everyone that joins eBay sponsors what you've also got to understand there's also an entry into replay effects fee as well okay and that's an extra $80,000 I guess Well, that's just for people in the tournament. Okay. Okay, let's just go. Can we just take a step back? Yes. So, Ryan, I went to Pinberg. Can we just backtrack? Because I'll explain that. Because I didn't just go to Pinberg. I went to ReplayFX. ReplayFX is a gaming convention. Okay. And, you know, think of it like, you know, we've been to PAX or we've been to, like, you know, a supernova. And I'll probably use PAX as probably the biggest parallel in that it is massive. So the hall that this place was at, the David L. Lawrence, whatever his name is, convention centre in Pittsburgh, and it's massive. It's like, you know, Jeff Shedd. It's just massive. If you think about PAX, PAX is about, I don't know, 50% game developers, 50% game developers are probably about, I don't know, 35% LAN gaming and console gaming, and then there's 10% classic gaming and then 5% pinball. That's probably the mix. Yeah. Pinberg is, just looking at the space that they had, you probably had about, I would say a quarter of it was the Pinberg location where all the machines were just in the competitions. Then you had a middle section that had all the vendors. Then you had another area that had sort of a mix of arcade games and probably another two, three hundred pinball machines. and then you had console gaming and LAN gaming and all that kind of stuff. And then you also had board gaming, tabletop gaming. There was sort of a seminar area there as well. So really, to add it up, 50% of the hall was pinball. 50% of it was either vendors or console gaming, arcade gaming, and all that kind of stuff, right? Okay. so and this place was packed it wasn't just people going into um the tournament area the rest of it had thousands of people so they're all paying I think it was for like for a three day pass it was like a hundred US okay a four day pass I think it was so overall the the event replay effects but who runs that is that run by the same people that run that replay foundation yes ah okay okay yep So as it's grown, they sort of said, you know what, for this to become, for Pinbird to become a bigger event, let's make it ReplayFX and expand it into, and I think that, I don't know, guys tell me if I'm wrong, but I think it was probably two years ago. So yeah, so 24 months ago, I think was maybe the first time when they've gone right. ReplayFX is now the new event and it's going to be a mix of everything. So this thing is massive. I'll tell you the only thing that really did differ from any of the other gaming conventions was there wasn't as much cosplay at all. Like normally going to all of these conventions, it's freaking Cosplayerama. It wasn't really that much. And it was a different demographic, I think is what I'll say. But so much fun. So much fun. Everybody that was there was just having a great time. Well, I mean, no one's really... Yeah, I mean, we're doing a pinball podcast, so no one really gives a shit about that. It's more about pinball, right? Like, people don't care about cosplay. No, I guess so, but that's why I'm saying, because I think it was 50% pinball. Like, who are you going to do cosplay in pinball? It just has... It's a different market. But really what it's saying is that there was just a lot of people there with a lot of things to do besides be in a tournament. The tournament was there, but there was so much of other stuff to do and there was just a lot of people that didn't do the tournament at all. So let's talk about Pinberg the tournament itself. Oh my God, Ryan. I want to play by play, ball by ball action. Every single... Just for the Eclectic Gamers podcast. That's what they wanted. Hey, I listened to the first 20 minutes of their podcast today. No pinball talk at all. Just talking about their dishwasher or some shit. I'm like, holy shit. Come on, guys. That is, they are breaking one of the Chris Frenchy rules of podcasting. He's throwing some shade at that pimp out there, and they talk about this, all right. Anyway, okay. So, yes, we know, 800, well, I guess it was 840 people start, but remember that there was a queue a mile long of a waiting list of people to come in, and there would have been, I reckon, 30, 40 people just standing near the entrance to the tournament area, waiting to see if they got in. Wow. Now, one of the things that we talked about when people were putting their predictions in, I said that one of the people that I predicted was Eric Stone, and then we sort of noticed that he was like number 78 or something on the waiting list. Yeah. But he got in. How is that possible? Because that's how far down the waiting list they go. But did they not update the waiting list online, or did that many people not rock up on the day? Because I find that very hard to believe. It's not that many people don't rock up. On the day? Yeah, because... What? Yeah, some people just would not have been able to make it for whatever reason, or they cancelled their tickets before the event, right? Yeah. So, yeah, and then there's also, if you think about this, well, to use Eric as an example, like he's 78th on the waiting list. That doesn't mean that there were 77 people there in front of him waiting to get in, right? Yeah. And if you're on the waiting list and you've got no guarantee and you're coming from the other side of the States or from overseas, you're not going to turn up with the chance of being able to get in, right? Yeah, of course. So it's really probably only going to be the locals that get in. So that's what I'm assuming anyway. So it's incredibly well organized. You know, you sit down, like Bowen gave a really good speech, gave us some expectations of what we need to do. and then we get into our groups. And basically what they say is, and there's an app as well, so you just go to the Pinberg site and you can see your scores and which bank or set that you're on. You go to your set, there's a bit of paper there, it's got your name on it, you play your games and three points win, then two, one and zero. and I had a really good first round. I think I might have got maybe eight points. Maximum you can get is 12, right? Okay. I think I got eight points and I was like, yeah, that's right. In fact, the very first game we played was Theatre of Magic and I just blew that thing up. There you go. And they hadn't done the theatre toverter thing so it just played regularly. Seven, mate, seven. I'm looking at your results here. There you go. No, I was happy with that because the first game I won, then it kind of started getting a little bit downhill from there. And so the next round, I think, was... You played stars, Marty. You played stars. And I remember going up to Bruce Nightingale from Stamshield saying, you know, I've just played the most overrated game there is. And he said, what? I went, stars. How bad did it fuck you, Marty? and the ass that's the worst type of fucking no you played Circus Voltaire Doodle Bug and World Cup Strucker you scored a three out of all those machines you must have got done pretty hard on all of them yeah because okay so this is kind of like Swiss Bearing right so the better you do the Better players you're playing against The better players you're playing against, right? So, it was This is the weird thing, Marty Is that when I do Swiss pairings At my place The same four players will be playing each other Just like the entire tournament, right? But with this one It's super duper It super duper avoids you playing the same people So, if you're Player 1, 2, 3, 4 And you all get like sixes and you're still at the top it won't map you up with the same people the next round. It will then say, okay, one versus five and et cetera, right? Yeah, that's right. Did you see anyone else in any of your rounds twice? Yes. In fact there was a guy in my first round David I want to say Ziegler Yeah Ziegler Yeah I actually saw him I think maybe two more times Okay And, yeah, in fact, he was in the second last round and the last round. Okay. So, but, yeah, so I didn't do really good on round two, yeah, with three points. Round 3, Attack from Mars, Poker Plus, Jurassic Park and Royal Splash Deluxe. Right, so I got an 8 in this round and basically because I absolutely smoked Jurassic Park. Smoked it. Because you know the rules of that game. I know the rules of that game. But, you know, everybody knows the rules of that game. The smart and stop button was deactivated, so... Oh. I managed to get chaos. So, like, the actual, like, chaos multiball or whatever it's called, right? Okay. So, nobody could do that. It was, you know, these machines just got up really tough. So, that wasn't going to happen. So, you know, I got an 8 out of 12. That wasn't too bad. Okay. My next one. You're up against podcaster Taylor James Rees and bar owner, Jack Bar owner, John Elric. Yes. Yes. Who is? John, like, I mean, Taylor James Rees, a freaking awesome guy as well. John, one of the funniest guys you'll ever meet. Just such a really, really good guy. Yeah, he's the owner of Trackbar. Yeah. Big Hurt. Big Hurt, Soundstage, Sorcerer, and Force 2. Is that what it is? Force 2. Oh, okay, right. Yep, it is Force 2. Okay. Sorcerer, it's the infamous sorcerer that's got the big fat rubber on the ramp, so nobody managed to get into multiball on that game. And, but Force 2, one of those sort of weird gotlebes of the time that most people dislike, well, especially, you know, Bruce from the Sam Chilton, he hates those games. I love that game. Okay. I really do like those quirky gotlebes of the era. You probably like it because you went well on it. You would love Stars if you got a four on Stars. Okay, you hate it because you love it because you got a really good score. No, okay. Let's just do a little bit of a sidebar right now. You know those Stern games, and you've got them as well, and later we're going to talk about the fact that I played Quicksilver and I did really well on that as well. I don't know. I just find those Stern games of that era to be a bit of a one-trick pony. Inferior to the belly games at the same time. Yeah, it probably is as well. Yeah, I don't know. Aren't most of the older games a one-trick pony? Spell something and then do something. Spell something and then hit the spinner. The thing I love about the Stern games is I love the sounds on those games. The noises they put into those, I just love that sound palette. So I got a 10 in that round. Huge. So then this is the last... Wait, is the last round enough for this? The last round... No, that was round four. That was round four, so round five. We know what's in this one. Okay, round five. So this was the deciding rounds to basically split everyone up into their groups, and there's such a backlog in the middle that if you conk out in the last round, like, you're in D. If you do really well, you're in A. So, set 66, Simpsons Pinball Party, Volley, which is a one-player, Dr. Dude and Space Shower. Marty, we all know about your love for Simpsons Pinball Party. It's really nice to have a Simpsons Pinball Party with the garage that works because, as a result, you know what I now think of the game. You absolutely do. It's still stuck. It's terrible. That fucking couch shot up the top was just terrible. Anyway, here's the deal as well, right? If you got a perfect 12 in any of these rounds, you got a medallion. Ah, don't tell me it was Simpsons. That fucks you, matey. So in this particular round, I had won the first three games, and it was just up to Simpsons pinball party. And what happened was I had this freaking monster first ball. like monster and everyone was just like oh my god that is going to be really hard to beat and I'm like oh my god I'm going to get a medal this is freaking exciting and then people had you know an okay ball second ball house ball what? house ball? how is that possible? well of course there's no ball save that's why you safely plunge into the flippers which I tried to do on my third ball and drained down the right out lane please tell me you did that No, it hit the pop bumper on the left, then the right, and then the left out lane. Ah, that is glorious. Okay. And then two people caught me, so I came. You deserve it, Marty, for just, there's so many negative things you've said about this fight. That's just, it's just Simpsons karma getting back at you. It doesn't bother me. It doesn't bother me. I would rather still have that than, yep, I won, and now I have to love Simpsons. Okay. So you got to turn that around, Marnie. It propels you all the way into A Division. You were ranked 69 out of 843 players at the end of the day. That's quite an achievement, Marnie, just in qualifying. Yeah, you know what? I was... So remember when people were sort of asking me, you know, what's my expectation? I know Colin asked me, and I didn't want to let everybody know what my expectations were. I would have just been delighted over the moon to qualify in A. That, for me, was my stretch goal. I was limited to B, so I could only be in B division no matter what. I think that's because I got into the finals at Indisc, maybe. Or Papa. Or Papa, something like that. Anyway, I was definitely restricted to B division, so I was absolutely over the moon. And, yep, so I came into day two. Yeah, with the same amount of points as Colin MacAlpine, but you were without spreadsheet, Marty. I was without spreadsheet. I was also without the adequate amount of sleep. I was also with probably a higher than required blood alcohol limit. What happened on the first night, Marty? Tell us. I just happened to meet Mrs. and Dr. Pym and we just talked all night. and I just looked at my watch and I went, holy crap. You showed me a picture. Two o'clock in the morning. You showed me a picture at midnight. I'm like, okay, yes, yes, you've met each other, now go to bed. I was being like the adult, like, go to bed, Marty. You qualified in A, go to bed. And then you messaged me again two hours later, like, drunk, and I'm like, what the fuck? You've got finals tomorrow, why aren't you in bed? I don't know. You could have done that on the second night, Marty. I was just having so much fun with those guys, and it was just like old friends catching up and we just talked and talked and talked and talked and talked and honestly, I just looked at my watch and went, oh my God, I swear it was five minutes ago. I looked at my watch and it was midnight. Where were you? It's now 2am. Where were you? Were you in their hotel room? Their hotel room or your hotel room? Their hotel room. Dr. Bryn bought a selection of gin, like maybe four different gins for me to try. What do you think I'm going to do here, Ryan? You got absolutely wasted, wow. I did drink quite a bit. So I wasn't feeling great the next morning, and my very first group is testament to how under the Carl Weathers I was. Set 39, 24, the greatest call-outs of all time. Big Indian. Oh, wait a second. Wait a second. Before you do that, what you've got to understand, each of these sets has got a name. Yes, the set for this one is called... Them's Good Jackpot Call-outs. And I didn't know why, but you know why, don't you? Yeah, 24. Hey, 24 actually shoots really well. I would take 24 as, like, you know, the way the ball flows and having fun shooting over so many other games. It's just, you know. With this one, there was only really a couple of machines that started from this. 24 was so flat. It was so floaty. It was not fun. Okay. Yeah, no. It was really the exception. Okay, 24, Big Indian, Phantom of the Opera, and 8 Ball. How did you do in this division, Marnie? I actually did really well in this division by getting a 2 out of 12. I got 2 out of 12. I did not do very well at all. And it was one of the things, I wasn't nervous. I wasn't sort of like, I was just uncoordinated, is the only way I can describe that. Playing up until past 2 a.m. Yeah, I think that's probably what's going to do it, right? Playing against Robert Gagnon as well. Yep. Oh, yeah, that's right, yeah. So the way this works for everyone that doesn't understand Pimberg, or if you're still listening, so basically your points carry over this 10 sessions. So the first five sessions, and each session is four games, You get a score out of 12, and then you kind of get a ranking. And in every round, every session, it re-ranks everybody. At the end of day one, after five sessions, you've got a score. So I think, Marty, you were 39 points. Sure. When you continue on the next day to get into the finals, the top... So, Marty, you're then in a group of 170 people around that. Okay. The top 40 people get into the finals, and you don't start fresh. your results on the first day carry on. So you were in a decent position. You were ranked 69th. So you had to do a lot better to climb up. So getting a 2 out of 10, that sent you to the absolute back of the pack. You were now ranked 140th. Yep. Yep. So set number 7, Marty, was... You're up against Justin. Josh was called Uncle Ben Never Made It to 65. And that was It's loading up now Spider-Man High Hand City Flicker And Ambryon Yeah okay Do you remember playing that? Not really I remember I remember playing You know Joe Lemire was in this group So I remember That as being part of it Okay Yeah I got a six Okay A six is like Okay To get right Because Yeah. It's not really going to prepare you forward, but, you know, it's not a two that sends you... Yep. ...sparring down. Okay, the next set, Marty, was Mustang... Wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. The title of this, because I love this... Okay. The title of this set is called The Greatest and also Ali. Which one's the greatest? You've got TX Sector, Triple Action, which is a one-player, Mustang and Ali. Is Ali a third, Marty, is it? Yeah, apparently, yeah. Okay. You did pretty well in this round. Yeah, I did. I did well on Mustang. I did well on TX Hector. Yeah, I had a good round. So, nine points for this round. I was happy with that. Next one was Magic Nick. Magic Nick. And three games were Magic, Taxi, Space Race, and Marty's personal favourite, like the Mortensen's Pinball Party, The Rolling Stones. Of course, out of all the games that you don't get to play, You get matched up on Rolling Stones. I did. And look, you know what? We played some games, but every single person in this round ended up with six points each. Okay. There's no sandbagging, because this is to get into the final, so that's a genuine result. That's exactly right, yep. Okay. And the last round was called I'll Flip Ya. And you got Quicksilver, Creature from the Black Lagoon, El Toro and the Hobbit. And Marty, you were up against in the last round, and pretty much, I mean, you'd have to get like almost a 12 to get into the finals at this point. No, so in this last round, I had to get a 12 to get into the finals. So the first game we played was... So Lime and Sheets was in my group. Let's just put it out there, right? Okay. This is where we, you know, we touched palms. So the first game, and this is when... So my first interaction with Lyman Streets was when he came over and he said, oh, what game are we playing first? And he went, oh, El Turdo. And we played El Turdo and I just had house ball after house ball after house ball and came last. Okay. But the next game we played was Creature from the Black Lagoon. and here was where the real magic happened. Okay. Because I got to watch Lyman Sheets be Lyman Sheets. Okay, well, there's two strategies in... Well, two phrases that I know of. One is just shooting up the middle all day long and the other is to blow up multiple with multipliers. Okay, so what do you think Lyman did? I really don't know because he's been a tournament player for 20 years I reckon if you enjoyed him doing it then I'm confident that it was multiball yep and he freaking blew it up blew it up but what was really interesting so he did the whole get the one jackpot and then get into the whirlpool so it just multiplies the play field and does it two times, four times, whatever, and then gets the super jackpot. Wow. Bam, there it is. But, I mean, he won. Look, spoiler, he won with like 600 mil, right? But he actually got a super jackpot and he had the playfield multiplier maxed and it only paid him a one-time value of like 99 million or whatever it was. And he just went, what? Because that was meant to be four times. so so then you have like there's a scoring bug oh wow okay because there's the there's the you find the girl then you get the jackpot and then you have to shoot up the pops get a certain amount of pop hits and then shoot the the candy bar again to the super correct that's right just quite hard to do it's quite hard to do he did it twice just letting you know okay he did it twice and I think the scoring bug was he did it the first time with a two times multiplier yep and someone was telling me later that if you then, once you've actually cashed it in at two times... It lost it. It lost it to them. No, it's actually a bug. It's meant to lock it, but it didn't even pay him two times. It just paid him a one time. So, I don't know. Someone said that apparently there is some scoring bug on that game. I don't know what it is. Anyway, point is, I didn't care if I won or lost. I actually just got to watch him just absolutely blow that up. He was unaware of the bug. Dwight Sullivan coded in? That's a Dwight Sullivan game. Sure. He must have been. Okay. Because he was like, no, that's an absolute rip-off. I should have got four times and blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, so... So Hobbit was the last game. So what was the third game? Quicksilver. Quicksilver. Yep. Won it. Yeah? Did you know the rules at all or you just had a really good... Yes. Yes? What are the rules of Quicksilver? Please explain. So there's a couple of different strats on it and some people were going for spinners, but I was doing the sweeping the targets. And how do you know these rules, Marty? Are you just asking the rules? I know rules. Do you know the reason why I know this one? You pretend not to know the rules. I've watched a Bowen tutorial on this one. Okay, cool. But, so anyway, and we'll get to rules in a second. So anyway, I got six points in the last round. There was no way I was ever going to get into the finals, which I never thought I was going to. What happened on Hobbit? What happened on Hobbit? Oh, Hobbit. Well, okay, so here we go. Hobbit, new code, which I'd not played before, and lightning flippers and no post. And the diverter was disabled as well, right? Correct. Yeah. So I didn't really do all that well. I might have come second. Okay. I don't know, maybe second or third. But lightning flippers on a Hobbit is amazing. A lot harder. but so much more fun as a result of it. If only you had to, like, take the flip the shaft out of your primordial money. Don't touch anyone's shaft. But, so anyway, I ended up on six points, so I ended up 80 overall out of 840 people. I'm freaking stoked with that. That's pretty damn good. Top 10%. Yep, not bad at all. Not bad for this little guy who knows fuck all about rules. So, here's the deal. In each of the banks, you effectively get a modern machine, an EM, a solid state, and let's say an alphanumeric, right? So, there's your mix. Well, the moderns could have been like a Dirty Harry. Okay. So, everything's a lot older. So, everything's pretty much, anything that's a DMD is really considered a new game. Yeah. So where I really get tripped up rules-wise is Modern Stearns, if I'm really honest. Yeah. And, well, I don't know, we read them out, the Simpson Football Party. Well, I know enough about the rules of those now. The other one was Rolling Stones. 24. Well, I actually did all right on 24 as well. But, you know, I was fine with the rules. and also because of, I think, pin tips must have just been absolutely updated with every machine. You know, if I walked up to a machine and said, what do I do? You quickly, you go to the app, you look up the machine, you then look up pin tips and it tells you what to do. It was so good. But also, you speak to somebody next to you and you go, oh, shit, I've not played this, what do I do? And they go, okay, you do this, you do this and you do that. Everybody was so cool telling you how to play a game. Is this even in the final round where if anyone gets a 12, you're getting through kind of thing? Yep. Did Lyman ask you how to play The Hobbit? No. No? No. I don't think he knows how to play it. I don't think anyone knows how to play The Hobbit because I think everyone at the collective decided that they will ignore that from all the time. Yep. So I don't think he did well on it. so I was completely fine not knowing the rules so Colin you can keep your rules man there wasn't really any sort of machine where I thought oh jeez I wish I knew the rules they were fine, it was either do this like the spinner or do this and probably also fucking light a stupid fucking spinner I mean, fuck me, spinners. You're all spin it out, are you, Marty? Yeah, I am. But I tell you, okay, there was also, did you mention there was a game, you know, one of the games that was in the finals was called Star Pool. I want to talk about that later. Let's talk about that in the finals. Only because... That game fucking sucks. No, no, because, I don't know, I didn't hear you call out Star Pool in any of my lists. So there must have been another game. It might have actually been subbed out or something. Subbed out. Because I either played Star Pool or I played, you know, EMs sort of got rebranded. Okay. So when I was watching that up on the finals on the big screen, I went, I played that game and I freaking crushed it. In fact, I rolled that game. Okay. So there you go. That's what I just called that out, but this guy rolled again. By the way, Colin, if you're listening, I still want your spreadsheet. Thank you. Okay, so the tournament is then over for you. So that was the second day of non-stop pinball play for 12 hours or something. Correct. So then you go to sleep or you do whatever you did that night, and then the next day is the finals, right? Correct. So the finals was a bunch of divisions. I think there's five divisions, the top 40 from each division, then play in four-player groups, then the top qualifiers get buys. And that was broadcast. We'll link that in the show notes. And by the time I woke up, it was pretty much in the semifinals. I think they call the quarterfinals there. In Australia, it's like quarterfinals are first, and then semi, and then the finals. But I'm pretty sure the way that Papa does it is it's the other way around. It's semi-finals, then quarter, then the finals. I don't know. Anyway, the end of it is the finals. The four people that were in the finals was Chris Stevens, which no one guessed was going to be in the finals on our little competition, but he has finished, like, second and third in Pimberg before, and he's a local, so he gets to play all the games, right? That's right. And, you know, someone actually did say to me, Oh, Chris Stevens, and it's somebody that's not, you know, Actually, you know what? I'll call it out. It was Mrs. Pinn. She said, who's Chris Stevens? I don't know who Chris Stevens is, and I can call it out because, you know, she's the first person that says that she doesn't know all these people. And I said to her, well, it's really interesting because I've seen Chris Stevens on a lot of the Papa tutorial videos, and he is a freaking boss, a boss on EMs and solid state machines. He just hasn't appeared on any podcast, mate. That's what it is. Once you start appearing on podcasts, people will just come and have a name, right? Well, I probably needed to have a T-shirt. We'll get to that. Okay. Yeah, so, and so obviously Andre Mattenkoff and Jim Belsito. And Keith Elwin. And the guy who wasn't there was Raymond Davidson, who qualified first, had been crushing the competition all, you know, all weekend long. Just dominating. And just getting 12s non-stop. and unfortunately like just one one bad round we have a couple of bad balls and I watched him play and I was just like okay this is when Raymond's going to catch that no unfortunately pinball sometimes is a bitch and it doesn't matter if he played two and a half days worth of really good pinball he couldn't string anything together in that last round to get into the finals but and okay probably fast forward a little bit but still I remember sort of talking to Raymond after, and I saw him sort of as the finals were going on, he was the biggest cheerleader for those people in the finals. That was just freaking awesome. And look, he was out, but he wasn't sort of really grumpy or down. He was just like, you get out there, you guys, and you do this and cheering and all that kind of stuff. And that's just really great sportsmanship. Well, before we talk about the finals, was there anyone, I mean, what was the mood like at, you know, during the competition? Obviously, when it gets down to the finals, everyone's realize they're not there and they're kind of watching the four best players of the weekend playing. But before then, were people taking the losses really hard? Yep. Yeah? Yep. Yep. In your... Yellow cards? Okay. For, like, what, swearing or slamming or, like, what's going on? Yep. Rage tilting? Yep. For swearing and slamming. Okay. So you can't... If you drain the ball, you can't say, F-E-C-K. You can't do that? You can, but you can't go, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, Okay I was slamming the glass on the machine Okay That may have happened I believe I don't know anything about it And I'm You know, I'll report on it, we'll move on But apparently somebody did get Ejected from the competition I Think, well day one But certainly very early on Okay, for Okay, such behaviour Bad behaviour, I don't know what the details of it were But anyway, that happened Okay, so For a good thing But yeah, you know what I was really lucky In that the groups that I got Just about throughout all the day Both days Just really good people I tell you what Probably helped Yes Being Australian Everybody knew who I was Oh, you're super famous aren't you now Matty? I've got to tell you I'm freaking super famous Okay No, it was actually I'll tell you why that was good It wasn't an ego thing at all I mean it felt good But it just meant that I was I still remember going to Indisk for the very first time On my own, not knowing anybody And you know, it was only really after a while That you know, I would speak to people because they didn't know who I was and I didn't know who they were. So it was kind of a bit of a lonely experience for me that first Indy. This time was a complete opposite because there was always somebody wanting to have a chat with me. So if people would come in and they'd see my name on the sheet, they'd go, oh, I know you from the podcast. Or people were just randomly coming up saying, I know you from the podcast. So I think that kind of helped. Was it your looks, Marty? Was it your voice? Or was it the fact that you wore the head-to-head Kimball T-shirt three days in a row. That's actually not true. No? Nope. Did you bring multiple shirts, Marnie, like for yourself or just one? Nope. I wore another podcast T-shirt on day three, just so you know. Okay. Which one was that? Pimple Profile. Okay. So I may have one for you. Okay. No, but that's what I'm saying. Like, it wasn't... I'm not saying that to be like, oh, you know, look at me, I'm fucking Martin from fucking head to head. You'll get how awesome that was when we talked about Keith. But that was just, I think it was a bit of an advantage that I had that people were super friendly to me. So either that or I just was very lucky and just got amazing people. And what I loved about it is, you know, there was somebody like in group one or group two that I would constantly see throughout the day and we'd stop. and say, how are you going? How did you go in this round? And what are you doing? Oh, that's bad. Well, maybe this. And oh, I had this bad, you know, house ball and all this kind of stuff. And that's kind of what it was like. It was just people talking about, and that's what I was saying right at the beginning of this podcast, no one was really talking about news and what gossip and what machines coming up from Stern. People were just really celebrating competitive pinball. It was really freaking cool. So, yes, it was serious in parts and it was intense. but I think it was just, that's what it was. It was a singular focus which was on a massive tournament. Okay. Should we talk about the finals or is there anything else you want to talk about before then? Okay. Let's talk about the finals. Okay, so game one. This game was Guardians of the Galaxy. Yep, Guardians of the Galaxy with Groot's mouth disabled, no outlines. Andre Massinkoff absolutely blew up the game on ball one. Yep. It's great to see, I mean, it's great to see any game played in the finals because it is like the elite of the elite level. So the strategies that get put out there and... I know it sounds horrible, but I wish there was more modern games. I wish it was Iron Maiden as well as Guardians of the Galaxy and two old games. Like, give us one more newer game because it's fresh. Give us Iron Maiden because Iron Maiden was played so differently at the New York Championships that I wanted to see different strategies. But that's not what... Like, Pimberg is meant to test you on all of the eras. I know what you're saying about having more modern machines, but that's just not what Pimberg's about. I mean, because everyone pretty much, well, not everyone, but, I mean, the strategy for Guardians of the Galaxy was pretty much the same. It was start, close quest, getting two more multiballs so you don't get an instant drain. Anyway, Andre came first on that, Chris came second, Jim Belsito came third, and Keith Alwyn, he was on his last ball, I think he had like 12 million or something. I'm not sure what his strategy was. I mean, his strategy was clearly started to go for group multiple all day long. But, I mean, the max you can get on a super, I think, on group is 24 million or so. And there was a point where he was starting, he was about to start his second one, and the mode start was lit. And obviously the mode start is a hard shot, but, I mean, it's in the same position as Metallica. If anyone in the world is going to make that shot, you would trust Keith Albon. But he didn't go for it. He just went for group, and I don't know. I mean, it didn't matter in the end, but I was questioning, as someone who doesn't know anything about Guardians of the Galaxy, I was kind of questioning that strategy versus, yeah. Maybe he was just trying to grind out for one point or something. So he came last on that game. So that puts you in a pretty hard position when you come last on a game when there's only four games and the scoring isn't exponential. It's 3-2-1-0. The second game is Starpool. Starpool is the game we were talking about before. I don't like this game in a competitive thing, and hey, I'm not a competitive player compared to everyone else out there, but this game pretty much requires you to hit A, B, C, and D, right? Correct. To double your bonus and then triple your bonus. Yep. I think the max bonus you can get is $30,000. Sure. Yep. And then after that, there's absolutely fucking nothing to do. So, yes, there's a strategy of making that happen as many times as you can on each ball, but if you're down in the pit from the last ball, then you pretty much can't catch up unless you have the longest ball time in history. That's right. That's shit. Yeah, but name that many people that can do that. The thing is, the two top targets cannot be hit with your slipper. You have to get it up top and just hope that it gets in there. That's not... You know, there's the whole luck and skill in pinball. They're fucking EMs. I know. But why are they in the finals? Surely there's an EM out there that requires more skill than this. Well, of course there are, but they sort of try to mix it up. As I said, this was one of the games that came up in my group. I rolled it, right? Yes. Nobody else got anywhere close to that. And I was just in absolute sync with this machine, but most people aren't. And that's kind of like the whole thing. Yes, I know EMs were built at an era, and I don't know if people play. They don't play like they do now, right? They don't do bounce passes or drop catches or that kind of stuff. So not that many people really do get up to max bonus. Yes. I understand that. I just feel like if you're lucky enough to get, I don't know. I feel like... You don't make great viewing is what you're saying as well. Well, I just feel like I'm the last ball. Like someone's having a great game, but they still can't catch up. So, you know what I mean? Like, hey, you get a house ball on some of your balls, then you're fucked. I don't know. That's not pinball to me, but I didn't grow up in the 50s and the 60s and whatever. So, whatever. Anyway, game three, pinbot. Jim Belcido. Sorry, Keith Elwin won that game. Jim Balcedo second. Andre third And Chris last Game three was Pinbot Jim Balsito blew up the game Keith came second Andre third and Chris last Chris had a bit of a bad run. Again, what's really interesting about Pinbot that I noticed is how everybody's just going for the skill shot strategy these days. Like, is that a new thing? Well, it's a safe-ish shot, and you can get $200,000 per if you get in there. I don't know. But there was a bit of a problem with that. It goes up. Every time you go up there, it goes times two, times three, times four. I think the max was just times two that Jim Del Cito got or something. So after a lock, you get to do it again. Or if you get it up there and the ball somehow triggers in the second line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're right. We'll just say. Yeah, so when Keith Elwin was going for that shot, I mean, he could have easily been a little bit closer to Jim, I'm not sure if he would have overtaken him, if his skill shots kind of stuck. And we all know that Keith is the skill shot photo taker. He couldn't get him. Yep, so he had a little interview after that round, moving into the last round. And what happened, Marty? He blamed us. What have we got to do with it, Marty? We blamed us because he was wearing a head-to-head T-shirt and said it was because of the t-shirt. You know what? I would have felt really bad if that wasn't just the most amazing publicity that we could get. So, the equation going into the last game, and I'm sure people have watched it, but I invite people to watch this on YouTube. I'll link it in the show notes. It's great. I got Chanel to watch, Marty. Really? Yeah, I got Chanel to watch because we're about to go out for lunch. I'm like, can we just watch the last game? She's like, okay. and she got really into it. She was like, I'm like, who are we going for? I'm like, fucking Keith. Go for Keith. He's wearing a head-to-head shirt. And she was just like, oh my God. She was like, fucking Keith. She was really, it was amazing to watch that. So the last game, Harlem Globetrotters, right? Yep. Great game to watch. The equation was that Keith needed to come first to win, but if Jim Balcedo came second, it would have forced a tiebreaker. Fucking hell. So the game didn't finish when Keith put up a massive score. And Keith did put up a massive score. He got the multiplier up on the right. Kind of reminds me a bit of Fathom, right? Yep. With a spinner in the correct spot instead of the wrong spot. And he blew up the game. He got 1.1 million. Everyone was clapping. Amazing flipper skills on show. Yeah, Andre had a decent ball, and Chris overtook Jim. So Keith Elwin won. Yep. And could you hear on the stream the thunderous roar of the crowd, not just right at the end, but throughout the finals? A hundred percent, no. Every time something happened like a really good save, you can kind of hear it in the background, but it was mainly the commentators, and I'm not sure if the commentators were close to the people, but they were pretty subdued. They were. Yeah, they were pretty subdued. It wasn't like Levy in New York. Did you end up watching that? Holy shit. He's just pulling out these awesome one-liners. It was a bit more subdued, I'm guessing, because they don't want to disrupt the player who's running for them. Yeah. But the reason I bring that up is that I was in the crowd, and it honestly was every great save or great shot or anything that happened that was amazing, it was just such an amazing experience to be there in this crowd where everybody was just right on it with this. And when Keith rolled it, he got a standing ovation. Everyone just stood up and clapped him because, as I said in my little meeting interview after, it was a masterclass on that game. I wish they showed that on the stream because you could hear it a little bit in the background, but I guess that's why when you're watching the football or whatever sport you watch, they show crowds. As much as you hate crowd shots every once in a while, is because it's not the same when you're watching it on TV. That's why I go to the footy every weekend that I can. I want to be around that energy, and it would have been amazing to be there, Marty. Who were you sitting next to during the finals? No, who were I sitting next to? I was sitting next to Mrs. Pinn and Dr. Pinn. Yes. And she was doing a live recording of her podcast while that last game was on. So I'll get to hear the roar. I'll get to hear the roar. Yep. You probably will, but that will be coming up in her next episode. So from the Mrs. Pins point of view of her first Pinberg final, that is what you will experience. That's not fair. I've been to Pinball way longer than her. I'm sitting here in Australia. She's watching Keith Elwin on stage and commentating on it. It was just the funniest thing. So isn't Mrs. Pin genuinely full-on into pinball now? Yes. I mean, you say yes in that, you know, she'll never obsess about it. But, I mean, one thing that we talked about, because I saw a lot of the swag that she made, I think that she sees pinball as a really good vehicle for her to make more craft. I genuinely think that's what it is. Some of the stuff that she's actually got Mrs. Pin branding on. Did you get any money? I did. Let me just grab my Mrs. Pin show bag that she gave me. I've got Mrs. Pin Twizzlers, they're called. What is it? She explained this, I think, on the podcast, but I've forgotten what's a Twizzler. We do have them, but they're called something... They're kind of like, you know, raspberry liquor. Oh, those red things that twirl up. Okay, yes. Yeah, that's right. So it's got a sticker on it saying, putting a new twist on Pinball Podcast. She branded the Twizzler. She's also got... there's a little, like, sanitising wipe. Yep. And on the back it says, Flipper buttons get around. Practice safe pinball. Yeah. Hey, how was the smell there this weekend, Marty? Was it all good? Great. No, it was actually really good. Okay. Really good people. High ceilings, high ceilings. Yeah, no, it was actually really good. So, that's... This is a pin. Anyway, there you go. But also, what was going on at that time of day was the Intergalactic tournament as well. This was an interesting one because this was a limited format... Sorry, limited entry best game format. Wasn't that the next day? This was the same day? This was Sunday? So qualifying was on that day. Ah, okay, okay. And so effectively... 400 people or so, Marty. 400 people? Yeah. Wow. So you put $20 in and it gave you 10 games and your four best scores over four different games was your score. And then I think, what was it, the top 40 got through to the finals? So did you get to choose your games or did you just get allocated? Yeah. How the fuck did you choose all those old games? Because I didn't really care all that much. Okay. And I was done. As far as the tournament goes, I was kind of done. I was like, you know what? I've had my Pinberg experience I don't want this side tournament which I know is a massive tournament as well it's the second biggest tournament in the world I didn't want that to be the experience I just wanted to enjoy the fact that I ended up in A-Division top 100 I was happy with that so I just kind of and also what I didn't want to pick was games that I knew everybody would be able to blow up so I wasn't picking Getaway I wasn't picking Attack from Mars you know what I mean? Like all the stuff people knew. I woke up this morning to kind of check the results and the funniest thing is when you have these limited entry competitions there might be 100 people there and people have some good games and some bad games and hey, they might end up with a score of 35 or something but this is like 400 people so the scoring goes 100, 90, 95, whatever it is and then sequentially by each number all the way down to zero there was over 100 people or something with zero as their result because they didn't finish in the top 100 of anything. And it was just so depressing. They came last, but they also got zero points. Wow. That's hard. Yeah. I honestly don't even know where I ended up, but it would be... You got like 100 and... No, you got 100 and something. You got like 35 points or whatever it was, but yeah. Yeah. It doesn't matter. Look, as I said, because also, you know, that night as well, was really the only tournament that mattered, the only tournament that I was really interested in, and probably the only tournament I'd prepared for. Okay. And that was the Trash Talker. Before we move on to that, the winner of the Intergalactic this morning was Jack Chadman. Jack Chadman. Yep. Of Canada fame. Yes. of cabin fever theme. Yes. And also the other tournament that was on today was the, what was it, Women's International Pinball Tournament, Whipped? Yep. But that was great as well. When that was on, when the finals was on, it had so much noise and energy and cheering and crowd going wild. It was also another great spectacle to watch. Yep, and decent prize money for that as well. I think they got two and a half grand and first got an Iron Maiden pinball machine. Pinball machine? Yep, and that was won by... Nicole. Who's Nicole? Okay, Nicole Brenner. Nicole Brenner, yeah. Or Brennier. Yes. Yeah. And so, you know what, she won an Iron Maiden pinball machine, and as I was leaving today, as the whole event was coming to a close, I bumped into her on the way out and she was just beside herself. She was just so happy that she was the very first person, first woman person to win the whipped tournament. And it was funny, she's going, I can't believe I've won this. Oh my God. And I get an Iron Maiden pinball machine. That right there is what you need to do now for, I think for the whipped format to be growing each year. You'll get a lot more women next year because that's a new pinball machine. It was sold out. So, I mean, like, it could have been bigger than it was, but I'm pretty sure it was limited to A, or however many people. I don't know the number. Well, open it up because you'll get the numbers easily. All right. So, Trash Talker, Invitational Money. I mean, we haven't talked about it every single week. like other podcasts have been, boasting and talking about how they're going to wipe the floor and Jeff Sciola saying, oh, I'm not going to enter, it's beneath me, and oh, I am going to enter and I'm going to rename these people because I can't compete myself and I'm going to get Raymond Davis in the world's number one player. You know? So, and, you know, I'm going to get Adam Becker and all these, you know, super top players. So, Marty, how did you go? Did you have any last-minute issues? what a loaded question that is so look i did so um here the criteria really was for my my team you had to be on the show and if you were australian and or new zealand then there's a double whammy so i formed my group and it was david peck wrote a day that's been on the show and Jimmy Nails that's been on the show twice. Unfortunately, Jimmy had to pull out at the last minute as a friend of his from in the States was only going to be there for a couple of hours and it was during the Trash Talker, so he bowed out. So what was a guy to do? To look around and say, right, who else has been on our show that could come on? That is here in front of you right now. That is here, standing right in front of me and is called Carl D'Python Anghelo. So, it was really funny because I asked Carl and Carl's like, oh, I don't know. And I'm like, you know what? Ryan, this was the funniest thing. And he was like, oh, really? I don't know. And I'm like, come on. And he's like, oh, really? I don't know. And then I'm like, look, honestly, mate, you don't really know. You don't really have to. He's like, oh, but I do. This is the opposite of what I was doing. So, in the end, I kind of just went, look, mate, don't worry about it, man. If you want to, you can. But, you know, it's no big deal. He was in. Yeah. It's weird. the opposite. It was so freaking funny. Marty, you used negative reinforcement on his ESP abilities. I did. It was reverse psychology. That's what it was. So, anyway. So that was funny. So we ended up, our team was myself, David and Carl. And how it worked was it was myself and three other people in a group. One of my ringers had their group and the other ringer had their group and you played four games, match play. The scores for each of the games were coming first was five points, then three, then two, then one. And what's meant to happen is as you're playing your ball, the other people in your group and I'll stress the part of the people in your group are meant to heckle you or do whatever they can to distract you from getting a good score. Okay. And here's what happened. And that's probably what would have happened all night except one thing. Okay. And that was the first game we played was dialed in, picked by Nick from Buffalo Pinball fame. So my group was Nick from Buffalo Pinball, Jeff Chiolis from Pinball Profile, and Bruce Nightingale from Slant Hill Podcast. My first ball on Dialed In was probably close to a million and went for so long that they walked away. Okay. They actually walked away because none of what they were doing was having any effect on me. You stream and drink your use of all the distractions money. You know what I mean? This is it, right? it's like guys do your best because this is my wheelhouse right here so I ended up on I think 2.2 million so that game in fact right at the end they said please just drain the ball so we can move to the next game because everybody's finished their round we're still in our first game that's a great trash talking game so so well done and that's pretty much what happened I think that the next game I didn't do so well I can't remember what it was. And then we had, you know, F14, Tomcat, whatever it is. Bottom line is, I got, I think I might have had 12 points in my team. Carl D'Python Anghelo. Yes. How many points do you think he got out of a possible 20 points? 15? 20. Oh, no. He won every single one of his games. and I think they might have got 11 points, so that's very respectable as well. So then you add up the three sheets, so my 12 points, Dave's 11 points, and Carl's 20 points, and then the top four podcasts then get into the finals, and whoever is the podcaster that represents them is in the finals. Okay. So no... Okay, nice. And who are you in there with? So it was me. it was Jeff from the Pinball Players podcast it was Taylor from this flipping podcast he's huge, I would not want to get into an argument with him no, he's pretty buff there's absolutely no doubt about it and we had Nick from Buffalo Pinball ok and I'll tell you one thing about this Trash Talker, it's not meant to be taken seriously the actual tournament itself But the thing to note that I don't know whether they did it last year, but there was also a really good cause as well. So there was also money being raised for a charity of choice. $50 each? Well, not just that. I put $50 US in, but so did other people. But other people just started putting more and more money in. So all up, there was $620 US raised. Nice. And the winner got to choose a charity that it would go to. And also, Scott from Pinstadium also donated a set of Pinstadium lights to go to a pinball charity of choice. Nice. Thank you, Scott. Thank you very much, Scott. And thanks to everybody for donating, because $620 US is pretty good. So, do you know what? I can't even remember what the games were that we played. There was an EM that I came first. Then we played... We played... You played an EM twice, I think. I was watching it on the stream. The second time, there was just cash all over the... All over the globe. Oh, okay. It was a different game? No, they're all the same. I picked High Roller Coaster Casino as my game. Just to shit everybody. Everyone was like, why have you picked this? I'm like, shit and giggles. I'm third. Okay. So basically I won the first game, came third on the second game, won the third game, and then the final game, I think it was like an EM, and at that stage they put all the cash over the machine so you couldn't see the flippers. Yeah. I absolutely destroyed everyone. Yeah, I saw that. You knew how to time your shots, and then when you didn't know, you were just kind of flipping left, right, left, right, left, right. It was a good strategy. It worked well. So I won. Nice. I won. and I got a big trash can filled with all the money. Please tell me you're going to bring that home and put it on your little tray for Kevin. I can't. I can't be able to get to customs. There's no way. But no, so I chose Beyond Blue, which is an Australian charity that assists people with, you know, depression and suicide prevention, particularly in men who find it very difficult to express their feelings and do stuff from depression as well. That's a nice way, right? Keeping Aussie men keeping their feelings inside. So it's a great charity. It is a great charity. So it was actually kind of good that we got to give it to an Australian charity and my Prince Stadium lights went to Project Pinball. And they were stoked. Yeah, I saw the post by Project Pinball and they said, Martin and Chuck Webster run a podcast. I didn't want to say anything. I just thought that was hilarious. Yep, that's right. I didn't bother correcting them. Chuck Webster, join in. He can be the new host. Chuck Webster, you bastard. Thanks also to Chuck Webster for organising that. Yeah, it was such a fun tournament. He didn't really organise it. He was just the representative of the committee. He was just one of the committee members. But yeah, he did apologise for the other committee members not being able to make it on the night, which was a shame. So, Marty, massive Pinberg weekend. You won the Trash Talkers Invitational. We are literally the greatest podcast out there. You almost came first out of all the podcasters. Tommy from This Wasn't Podcast just somehow ended up in the A-Finals and then almost made it all the way through, right? You got to meet all these people. You got to hang out with all the podcasters and everyone. People were taking selfies with you. what was the highlight of your Convert Weekend? I know you know this. Come on, Marty, what was the highlight? My highlight? It just sounds so sad. I know it's coming. All right, come on. It just sounds so sad because I told you already. Yeah. My highlight was Keith Elwin wearing a head-to-head T-shirt and then calling us out up on stage. And we said we're also responsible for the win, so we... That's right. Guys, this T-shirt... Then I have to feed you after. Yeah, this T-shirt has magical powers. I mean, how many other T-shirts did you give out on the weekend? Sorry, answer the question. How many people wore the T-shirt during the finals? Just Heath, right? Just say just Heath. That's it. So, you know, people say, you know, oh, you appear on this podcast. That's it. If you wear a head-to-head pinball T-shirt, you will win. You're going to win Pimbo. Yep. So we are going to start selling them and they will be very, very expensive because... Yeah, correct. Because we know the power that they have. So what happens, though, if everyone in the finals next year is wearing a head-to-head Pimbo t-shirt? What actually happens? Is there going to be like... We win like seven Twitter trivia awards. Is there a next level above the super limited edition? It'll be some kind of weird draw where they just keep on drawing and drawing and drawing and they just have to say, Oh, fuck it. You guys all win. he's the trophy and he's split the money up it's like oh shit you guys are wearing t-shirts but we can't do the finals split the money evenly you're all done that's it so just letting everyone know but it honestly I've got to tell you it honestly was it was the highlight because I just wasn't expecting it I like I like the fact that he loves the t-shirt the fact that he freaking wore it the fact that the winning snap of him with a trophy in his hand and got the head dead pinball logo in it. I was joking to Marty because we purposely made a very kind of like small logo on the front and, you know, on the back it says Drain Monster. This was designed by a local guy here who likes to call himself Paulie Balls. So big shout out to Paulie Balls. Your t-shirt was worn by Keith Elwin who won pinball. Right? Yep. Yep. So I was joking to Marty like we should have made like a massive logo on the front. With our URL and everything. Please listen to the Head to Head People podcast. We need to be validated. We have an iTunes picture and Google Play. Well, do you see what happened after that Snapchat got up, Marty? Our Facebook like count went up from... It's gone bananas. It's gone bananas. It's gone from 502 to about 506. Four new likes, Marty. The effect is just... It's just like it's extrapolating. It's exponential. It's amazing. It is massive. But look, I will say again, Really the highlight of Pinberg. Besides that, that moment just absolutely just made me grin from ear to ear for hours. But besides that, as a whole, what I was really pleased about was such a good vibe on the floor of the tournament. Oh, my God. You know, I forgot to mention, really. is just how unbelievably well run this massive freaking tournament is. This tournament had 840 people. Techs were onto things immediately. And if they couldn't fix it, they were swapping out machines. The software didn't miss a beat. You know, the system where if you needed a rule and you'd go to the end, you'd turn on your light. A tournament director would be there within 15 to 20 seconds, running, making a very quick, precise decision, and they would stay there and observe to see if something was still happening again. Then they'd move on, turn the light off. Oh, my God. Seriously, people running Pinberg, you are fucking amazing. I really mean amazing. This, Ryan, you would have to experience to appreciate how much they've made this into such an amazingly well-running machine. It is just incredible. Are you going back, Marnie? Everyone has asked me that question. And? And let me tell you this. Someone also asked me a question. They said, is this your favorite tournament that you've been to? Guess what, Ryan? Yes, it is. It's actually not. No? Race goes at Rice's. Smash it. Yeah, absolutely. No, and I would actually still say, I'm not, and this is, again, this is not a case of ones and zeros. Just because I don't think it's my favourite doesn't mean I don't think it's rubbish. It is, it is the greatest pinball tournament in the world. But for me, I still, I still like Indisc. and I like Indisc because it's probably... It's in California. It's a better state. No, I think it's because... I think the difference is you've got an expo versus a festival. Does that make sense? I don't know. That's kind of a different vibe. Which one is the expo and which one is the festival? So, Pimberg's more the expo. You know, the banning there, It's more of a festival kind of vibe. Okay. I don't know. You know, what I don't love is the stress and the pressure and the win-lose kind of feeling that comes with a tournament. In-disc, for me, is just a bit more get in there, have your games, have a bit of fun, have a bit of chat and all that kind of stuff. Well, do you think maybe it's because you went to In-disc twice you knew what to expect, but Pinberg was the first round. Possibly. so will I come back again oh hell yeah absolutely and I don't know the thing with it is then there's all this pressure do I come back and what if I don't do better which is a natural thing that's going to happen right I don't know there's just a lot of pressure but the pressure's on yourself that's self perceived pressure yeah that's exactly right this tournament and that's why everyone says, like, you know, Steven Bowden said, you know, the correct answer is Pimberg, and he's right. The best pinball tournament in the world is Pimberg. So I don't know what I'd come back to next year. You see, if I want this, the pressure and the excitement and the adrenaline, then I'll come to Pimberg. If I'm not really up for that, you know, let's say there's a lot of stress in my life and I don't want that kind of pressure, then I'll come back to Indisc. I don't know. even though there's or you go to both of them we just start charging we start charging 5 cents per podcast and because we have so many millions of listeners that would easily pay for both trips up their money that is actually a great idea maybe we should do that what are those things where people can donate what are they called? Kickstarters Patreon maybe we start a Patreon and people can give us money and they can pay for our trips over to Pimberg and you know what we'll give you a t-shirt as well. That'd be the VIP one if you donate 10 cents to S5. But another thing was as well, Ryan, is that before, in actual fact, before Keith did wear our t-shirt up on stage, a lot of people were asking where they can buy our t-shirts. Okay. We'll have to organise something. We'll work out what we're going to do. We just did this for a bit of fun and a bit of a thank you to those people that had come on the show. we'd have to get somewhere in the US to make them right like we can't make them here and then shoot them over there it would just cost too much no that's right so we'll figure something out we'll work something out oh Marty fuck me that was an hour and 25 minutes or so on Timber that's pretty good that's pretty good for a three day event not bad yeah so anything else you want to mention about Timber before we close this off no just I'm really tired guys I've had an absolute blast Great people. Great city. Pittsburgh's a really, really great city. Did you do anything besides Pimberg? Like, did you go and see any sites? You're still there now, right? You're still there now? I'm still there now. I'm heading to Chicago in the morning. I'm going to be going to Stern in the morning, so that'll be great. Isn't that hilarious that you were like, I'm just going to Pimberg on that trip, and that's the only pinball thing I want to do, and we saw during the week that you were at Tilt in Toronto. You did all of Pimberg. and now you're going to go to the Stern Pinball Factory, Marty. You have conned your partner into coming on this trip. Just one pinball event. Yeah, I'm probably going to try and head down to Logan on Wednesday night. Oh, my God. We'll see what happens. So, okay, Stern, that's pretty big. We should have delayed the podcast by another day so you can talk about everything that's happening at Stern. You probably have to sign a nondisclosure agreement or something, right? I would say I probably have. No pictures or anything? I don't know. Okay. I don't know. And you know what? I would freaking sign anything if I could see some sneak peeks of some stuff, but who knows? I'm just very grateful that they're going to show me around and I get to see a big factory, so I'm really looking forward to it. Cool. Yeah, I don't really have a big week coming up. Hey, I got Meteor today, Marty. I guess I forgot to mention that before. Yes, you did. I saw a picture of that. Yeah. It's in decent condition. It's not amazing. I mean, is it better or worse than Quicksilver? Ah, everything's better than Quicksilver. I mean... Quicksilver's the top. Yeah. The funny thing is, I mean, I need your Iron Maiden gone and No Good Gophers gone. When No Good Gophers is going muddy, I think I'm getting another Freak Timber Machine. So I don't know when this Quicksilver thing is happening where I get it to work, but yeah, I'm going to get another Freak Timber Machine. Awesome. that's a bad ah the competition okay yes so so if you're still listening two and a half hours in the competition was to guess who was going to be in the pingbo finals pretty much everyone chose Keith Elwin and Raymond Davidson Josh and Zach Sharp were also in the top four picks I believe two people chose Jim Belsito so they both came second they get zero prizes because there's no prizes coming second in this competition. Two people... Well, I need a ruling on this, Marty, okay? Because two people chose Andre Massinkoff, okay? One of them was Daniel Lewis. The other one was... I think her name is Janine. So they both finished first, equal first, okay? But we kind of had the rule. I mean, I'm not sure how solid the rule was that when Pimberg starts, the competition is over. Daniel entered the competition way before the competition started. Janine entered the competition about 40 minutes into the first round. So there were no results posted. Do we do a 50-50 or does Daniel win? Oh, I can't believe you're asking me to do a ruling. Because, I mean, according to our rules, it should be Daniel. But, you know, no results were posted. So Janine couldn't have known that Andrei Matzenkov was going so well that he would get into the finals 40 minutes into the first round at Pemberg. Yeah, okay. I would say let's go 50-50. Okay. 50-50. Go to Google. Okay, so Daniel Luth will be number one. Yes. And Janine will be number two. Correct. Okay. Okay. Please generate a number between zero and two. Okay. One. Oh, still. There you go. I was kind of hoping it would be two just in case Daniel would complain. Okay, Daniel, Daniel Luth. Daniel Luth, you have won a set of...

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: c717f5d9-79ca-4fe1-8b64-311560833784*