# Dirty Pool Podcast - Ep30 - Kaite Martin and NYC Pinball **Source:** Dirtypool Pinball **Type:** video **Published:** 2026-04-29 **Duration:** 101m 13s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnPEXE7DbAw --- ## Analysis Kate Martin, a prominent NYC pinball organizer and operator, discusses her journey from bartender to pinball enthusiast, her operation of 14 machines in her apartment, her hosting of tournaments and leagues, and the evolution of NYC's pinball scene from the old operator mentality to modern standards. She covers her recent transition to operating games at Buttermilk bar, the Bells and Chimes women's league network, and reflects on location pinball challenges, game selection, and community building. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Kate owns 14 pinball machines in her NYC apartment — _Kate directly states the count when asked 'what's the count right now? Four 14.'_ - [HIGH] Kate is taking over game operations at Buttermilk bar from the previous operator Max — _Kate discusses moving her games into Buttermilk and the previous operator handing off responsibility to her due to his inability to maintain the machines_ - [HIGH] Kate helped establish NYC's Bells and Chimes women's league chapter, the second one nationally after Oakland — _Kate explains that Rebecca Schneider started Bells and Chimes in Oakland, then Anna Wolk started NYC chapter, and Kate helped operate it with a team including Caitlin James Rees, Michelle Colomer, and Annie Polland_ - [HIGH] Kate hosted a 44-person tournament at her apartment and won it because it was the only tournament where her friends were unfamiliar with her games — _Kate states: 'The first one I hosted here, I did 44 people... it I love hosting... it is the only one that I won because now all my friends are really familiar with my games'_ - [HIGH] NYC's pinball scene has transitioned from old-school operators (who tolerated broken games) to newer operators expecting games to function properly — _Kate discusses Max as 'one of the last old school operators' and contrasts with newer operators who appeared in the last 5 years with expectations that 'everything should play right and work'_ ### Notable Quotes > "I'd take what they give me. I do not have everything must be the most premium. I'm a big fan of putting a pro on location and letting it play as simply as possible and break as little as possible" > — **Kate Martin** > _Illustrates Kate's practical philosophy on game selection for locations, prioritizing reliability and accessibility over premium tiers_ > "I live on the ground floor and everyone in my family has left New York City except for my grandmother... my mom being like, 'I don't want to be a landlord or a super or deal with garbage or leaking sinks. So if my kids would like to keep these houses after I die, you can deal with them before I die. So I am the super.'" > — **Kate Martin** > _Explains how Kate came to control her large NYC apartment space for pinball machines—a critical resource for the community_ > "I am such a certified hater that I can't wait for him to be like your game's [suck]. I deserve it. I absolutely am like just the most petty hater" > — **Kate Martin** > _Kate acknowledges her reputation as a vocal critic, showing self-awareness about the tension between being an outspoken community member and now becoming an operator_ > "Stars has been that game forever... I think hipster pinball's unfair because it's like Stars is cool, right? Like I know when like it before it was cool. Stars has always been cool. It's evil. It is evil. But it's always been cool." > — **Kate Martin** > _Reflects the community's respect for classic games while defending against dismissive trends; suggests Stars will be used as mandatory tiebreaker_ > "The games that are currently at Buttermilk are junk. They are location games. We've got cheap beer. We have gross bathrooms. And the pinball is fine... you can't expect going in and playing like home use only games at every location. That's just part of the experience of playing pinball like on a location." > — **Kate Martin** > _Balances her standards as a new operator with realism about location pinball culture and player expectations_ > "I overbook myself regularly and then I just have like full breakdowns and it's very unhealthy and I don't recommend doing that... team up with people so you don't get overwhelmed" > — **Kate Martin** > _Kate shares hard-won wisdom about sustainable community organizing and delegation, showing growth as an organizer_ > "It's borderline impossible to make money hosting pinball tournaments in your home. I I've only lost money doing it." > — **Kate Martin** > _Realistic assessment of the economics of pinball tournaments and location operations; signals that passion, not profit, drives community operators_ > "I had the flu leading up to states and I was hosting states... I guess I'm playing in states with the flu and played terribly both in open states and then in women's states" > — **Kate Martin** > _Demonstrates Kate's commitment to community events even under adverse personal circumstances; establishes her as a dedicated organizer_ > "I bought a Metallica for the bar. Metallica original premium... 'I've played it. I think I'm still the GC and it is very strobe-lighty.' And I'm like, 'Oh, that's going to be really good in my pitch-black bar.'" > — **Kate Martin** > _Shows Kate's practical approach to game selection for specific venue contexts; mentions Gene Wang's input on game quality_ > "When you play a playable Future Spa and mine was on like baby mode where like the gate was always open or extra open and the tilt was pretty loose... Every part of that game is mean." > — **Kate Martin** > _Kate's detailed analysis of Future Spa's design challenges and her own game's difficulty balance; shows deep technical knowledge_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Kate Martin | person | NYC pinball operator, organizer of pinball leagues and tournaments, founder/co-organizer of NYC Bells and Chimes women's league, owns 14 pinball machines, recently took over operations at Buttermilk bar, referred to as 'pinball queen' | | NYC Pinball League | organization | Pinball league operating out of NYC venues including Buttermilk bar, features team league on Monday/Tuesday and singles league; Kate is taking over game operations | | Bells and Chimes | organization | Women's pinball league network; started in Oakland by Rebecca Schneider, NYC chapter launched by Anna Wolk and now operated by Kate Martin alongside Caitlin James Rees, Michelle Colomer, and Annie Polland | | Buttermilk | venue | NYC bar where Kate works and is now operating all pinball machines; has league play Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and monthly Saturday tournaments | | Sunshine | venue | NYC pinball venue that opened around 2010, part of modern pinball renaissance in NYC; operator is mentioned as one of newer operators showing up in last 5 years | | Rebecca Schneider | person | Founder of Bells and Chimes women's pinball league in Oakland; no longer actively plays pinball | | Anna Wolk | person | NYC pinball community member who reached out to Rebecca Schneider to start NYC chapter of Bells and Chimes | | Max | person | Previous operator of games at Buttermilk bar; described as 'one of the last old school operators in the city'; handed off operations to Kate | | David Barber | person | Pinball technician who services Kate's machines at home; visits approximately once per month | | Caitlin James Rees | person | Co-organizer of NYC Bells and Chimes league alongside Kate Martin | | Michelle Colomer | person | Co-organizer of NYC Bells and Chimes league; handles email communications | | Annie Polland | person | Co-organizer of NYC Bells and Chimes league | | Jade Ang | person | Former organizer of NYC Bells and Chimes; took a pinball vacation a couple years ago | | Dante Olivas | person | Top 4 INDISC player; frequents Kate's apartment; jokes that Kate would perform better at tournaments if she played her games at home | | Gene Wang | person | Pinball player who reached out to Kate about Metallica Premium; claims to still hold the game's high score | | Carrie Hill | person | Pinball player who nearly rolled Future Spa during Women's Bank finals at INDISC; put up 16,000 points | | Zach McCarthy | person | Referenced as notable Pinburgh player whose tournament performances influence game popularity | | Pinburgh | event | Major pinball tournament; finals results influence game selection and popularity in community (Indisc effect) | | INDISC | event/organization | Pinball tournament hosting Women's Bank; referenced for competitive play and game selection | | Dirty Pool Podcast | content | Podcast hosting this episode 30 featuring Kate Martin; appears to focus on pinball industry and community | | Metallica (Original Premium) | game | Stern pinball machine; Kate purchased for Buttermilk bar; noted for strobe-heavy display effects | | Future Spa | game | Wide-body pinball machine; Kate owns one being shopped; known as 'players' meme pinball machine'; noted for mean playfield design with difficult inlanes/outlanes | | Stargazer | game | Stern pinball machine from 1980s; Kate's favorite old Stern; has unusual flipper cup roll-over outlane system; Kate replaced kitchen table with it; used in women's states tournament | ### Signals - **[community_signal]** Kate Martin's leadership in expanding and sustaining the Bells and Chimes women's league network across multiple cities; delegation model with co-organizers to prevent burnout (confidence: high) — Kate describes helping establish NYC chapter as second after Oakland, currently co-organizing with 4 others, and contributing to other city chapters - **[venue_signal]** Buttermilk bar transitioning from old-school operator (Max) to community-focused operator (Kate); represents shift toward better game maintenance and community investment (confidence: high) — Max explicitly handed off operations to Kate, stating she should be the operator because 'you care about it'; Kate working two nights/week and hiring David Barber for regular maintenance - **[operational_signal]** Shift in NYC pinball scene from tolerating broken games to expecting functional equipment; modern operators (last 5 years) implementing better maintenance standards (confidence: high) — Kate contrasts Max (old school, tolerates issues) with newer operators; discusses implementing Discord/Google forms for issue reporting at Buttermilk - **[gameplay_signal]** Community appreciation for challenging, 'mean' playfield designs (Future Spa, Stargazer) that humiliate players; these games valued in tournament play despite difficulty (confidence: high) — Kate extensively discusses Future Spa's 'mean' inlane/outlane design; notes Stargazer drains frequently but is beloved; woman nearly rolled Future Spa at INDISC - **[market_signal]** Operators prioritizing reliability and pro/base models over premium tiers for location play; practical durability valued over aesthetics (confidence: high) — Kate states she prefers putting 'a pro on location and letting it play as simply as possible and break as little as possible'; willing to accept 'junk' location games - **[sentiment_shift]** Community frustration with broken machines has driven modern operators to expect working games; old tolerance for leaning/broken equipment no longer acceptable (confidence: high) — Kate discusses Jurassic Park with permanently broken left ramp at old operator venue; contrasts with modern player expectations and her own intolerance for broken games - **[product_strategy]** Kate acquiring mix of classic (Stargazer, Diner) and modern machines (Metallica) for location play; choosing games based on venue characteristics and audience (confidence: high) — Kate bought Metallica for Buttermilk's 'pitch-black bar', chose Diner, Future Spa for her collection; considers game playability and theme appropriateness - **[business_signal]** Location pinball operations are not profitable; operators driven by passion for pinball and community building rather than financial return (confidence: high) — Kate states 'borderline impossible to make money hosting pinball tournaments in your home. I've only lost money doing it'; Electric Bat data shows non-pinball arcade games more profitable - **[community_signal]** NYC community celebrates home-based tournaments; Kate hosts 44+ person events with themed medals and food; tournament hosting creates community bonding despite financial losses (confidence: high) — Kate describes hosting Christmas, Thanksgiving, New Year's, Halloween, and pinball tournaments; only tournament she won was first one with 44 attendees - **[competitive_signal]** Tournament results influence game popularity (Indisc effect); Robocop gained popularity after Zach McCarthy's Pinburgh performance; Stars remains consistently valued (confidence: high) — Kate explains buying Robocop because of Pinburgh finals; discusses Stars as game with lasting cool factor; mentions Pinburgh effect on game selection - **[personnel_signal]** Kate openly discusses regular overcommitment leading to mental health breakdowns; advocates for team-based organization with defined roles to prevent burnout (confidence: high) — Kate states 'I overbook myself regularly and then I just have like full breakdowns and it's very unhealthy' and recommends team approach with role specialization - **[content_signal]** Dirty Pool Podcast episode 30 features prominent NYC community organizer; podcast serves as platform for community figures to discuss pinball culture, history, and operations (confidence: high) — Kate Martin featured on Dirty Pool Podcast Ep30; discussion covers NYC pinball history, operations, community organizing, and game selection philosophy --- ## Transcript Hello everybody. What's going on? Welcome to another episode of the Dirty Pool podcast. You're number 30, Kate. It wasn't even even podcast number. You've been referred to as the the pinball queen. You have been on the news talking about pinball. You run a New York City pinball league out of your apartment sometimes. Thank you for being on the podcast. How's it going? Hello. It's good. I it's going well. I'm ready to talk about all boring and fun things pinball. Well, you're in the right place because I like to talk about boring and fun things at the same time. Sometimes not. We were just talking about you [laughter] you work at a bar that is now you're taking over operating all the games in there and you you said that you don't have any Spike 2s in there and we were just chitchatting about what Spike 2 would be. Do you want to give some spoilers? So you gave me shade, but I think I want to I think a John Wick would do well. I like the game. I think it's fun. I think the later versions of the rules made it an enjoyable game. I like that the playfield is in I don't know. It's it's hard. I feel like the shots are tight. The game is Airball crazy narrow. [laughter] Yeah. I mean it's not Houdini. Like Houdini is but like yeah. I I would get an Elvira if they were more readily available and affordable. Uh Would you go Blood Red or would you go OG? I'd take what they give me. I don't even I don't care. I am not I have some really nice games, but I'm not a like everything must be the most premium. I'm a big fan of putting a pro on location and letting it play as simply as possible and break as little as possible For sure. For sure. Well, and what I love I love your collection because at least from the stuff that I've you know creeped on on NYC Pinball, which is your Twitch channel if you want to go check out your streams, right? It's my boyfriend's Twitch channel. Oh, boyfriend's Twitch channel. That's right. But you have beef right now cuz he knocked you out of B division, right? No, he knocked me out of states when we first started dating. In my home, which is rude. But no, we're fine. I guess we're fine. You know, he's better at pinball than me. Was the sofa involved at that point? Like was the sleeping arrangements changed when the whole B division fiasco occurred? Well, I so I I had the flu leading up to states and I was hosting states and it was just kind of this thing where I was like, well, I'm not going to not be here cuz I have nowhere else to go. So I guess I'm playing in states with the flu and played terribly both in open states and then in women's states. Just like actually some of the worst pinball I've ever played. That's either awesome or you're an absolute monster because you went to a pinball tournament with the flu. How many you're like Typhoid Mary? No one else got sick though. I think I was just over it. I had it for like two weeks leading up to it. So I think I was just over it and I just still felt terrible. But I like sent an email being like, hey, I have the flu. I think I'm better now, but this is my house. I'm not leaving. So That's fair. Honestly, that's pretty good. That's a good point. Carrie Hardy's here. What's going on, Carrie? He's shouting out saying hey to Kate. So we have we have a lot to talk about. We should blow through this. Let's let's do it. Um So I mean I guess we have to of course start talking how you got into pinball cuz people don't just start coming playing pinball out of the womb. So what what initially got you interested in pinball? I've told this story a ton, so if it's boring to someone, I'm sorry. I worked at a dive bar. I'm a career bartender. Worked at a dive bar that had four pinball machines and I own almost the entire lineup of games that were there, which are all the games I learned on. But these three guys would come in during happy hour. They were all like in the middle of being unemployed looking for work and they would start four-player games. They'd be like, "Oh, do you want to be player four?" And then once I learned on Paragon and Lord of the Rings that there were rules, I was like, "Oh, I have to be better than you at this." Those are very different games, too. Paragon and and Lord of the Rings are like about as polar opposite as you could get. [laughter] And yet like I have both in my bedroom. They are both like Lord of the Rings while it is a very deep game like at the end of the day that you can kind of just do the objective of like do the multiballs and you'll get the thing. Do the mode and you'll get the other thing. And so that was that was good enough for me. And then Paragon it was just like I learned how to tap pass at a pretty early stage in pinball because of Paragon. Right, because Paragon's a good game to learn that on. It's hard to do on modern games. So was there a moment where you were just like, "Oh, I get it." Like it went from just being like a thing to do at the bar with some friends to like a passion? Like what was the like moment where you were like, "Okay, I need to own like 12 pinball machines in my apartment."? I well, it didn't start that way and then I was going to buy a game and the person I was dating at the time, it was a Whirlwind, I think or a Hurricane. I can't I don't even remember now. And he was like, "You shouldn't buy that game. You should buy a game that you love. Like your first game should be something you love. If it's going to be in your house, you're going to want to play it all the time. You shouldn't buy that game." And I was like, "All right, fine. Even though it's a pretty good deal, I won't." And then he bought it. I was like, "Okay." And then like a couple weeks later a friend of mine found me a gorgeous Paragon and I still have it. It's my firstborn. But I I had three games in a studio apartment and then I had four games in a teeny tiny one-bedroom where like Stargazer replaced my kitchen table. Sure. And then That's a good That's a good step up though. I would replace the kitchen table with Stargazer, too. I'm a millennial. I don't think I eat dinner at a table. I think I eat dinner on the couch watching TV. Yeah. So replace the couch with a pinball machine, too, to be fair, but you know. I do like comfort. It's I I prioritize comfort. I I've worked on my feet for 20 years and my only hobby is pinball. Like I just want to be comfy. I just want to sit down a lot. There's a if we could figure out how to put like a seat cushion sticking out of a pinball machine where you could use it as as a seating situation, too. That would resolve all these problems. I frequently get told to get a Murphy bed so I can fit more games in my room. All right, but what about like a Murphy pinball machine? You like fold it up and then like you bring it back down and it turns into a pinball machine. You put it up, it turns into a sofa. When Stargazer was in my kitchen, my dad was a like contractor and I asked him if he could make like a drop-down table so that I could use like like basically a cutting board that would come down on the wall and have like a leg to support it on top of Stargazer so I could have a table. There you go. And then put it back up. And then my dad died before this ever came. It's okay. Don't worry. It's fine. But my dad died before this ever came. I remember like looking at my kitchen table being like, "He copped out. God damn it. I could have had a cool pinball chopping board." Yeah. Well, let's not throw away the idea. I think he would be proud about the idea of the Murphy pinball machine then. Yeah. I mean now so I moved into my mom's old apartment two years ago, two and a half years ago. And it is like pretty big for New York standards. So Sure. You have a lot of pinball machines, too, right? Like what's the count right now? Four 14. Okay. New York City is not exactly known for I lived in New York. I lived in Brooklyn. It's not known for large living spaces for pinball machines and they're kind of big, you know. Yeah. It is like I live on the ground floor. I grew up in the house. So there's like a fan that lives upstairs. I live on the ground floor and everyone in my family has left New York City except for my grandmother who still lives in Manhattan. My grandparents still live in Manhattan. And so the trade was basically my mom being like, "I don't want to be a landlord or a super or deal with garbage or leaking sinks. So if my kids would like to keep these houses after I die, you can deal with them before I die. So I am the super." Yeah. [laughter] So I'm the super in exchange for like reasonable, but still pretty expensive, more expensive than most of my friends' rent. But for where I am, it's like crazy cuz New York is crazy. Have you had Have your tenants ever complained about the pinball tournaments that you run? No. That's great. So the upstairs my the family that lives upstairs, it's a guy and his two boys and like they'll come in and play for a little bit and like I watch his cat when he's out of town. His name Sebastian. He's very fat and cute. And I had a small kitchen fire and he came in and woke me up. So like we're getting pretty close at this point. I think we're like uh buddies. But um Preventing the place from burning down so that pinball machines don't go up in smoke. Pretty That's friend material. That's a bonding moment. For sure. And he like he can't hear anything cuz I'm on the first floor and their bedrooms are on the third floor. Oh, okay. Then great. Kitchen, living room and very loud boys cuz young boys are loud. Yeah, they stop talking. I lived above a friend and so like I would just be like, "Hey, I'm going to play pinball." But I would I never really play after like 10 anyway. I don't Is that Is that a courtesy or is that just because you're like, "Man, 10:00. That's my pinball cutoff time."? Uh courtesy. It's you know, they're they are loud. Although you shockingly can't really hear much through a floor when the door is closed. Except TNA. TNA is so I don't even have a shaker motor and it would shake the floor like The sub in TNA is practically the shaker motor itself. [laughter] Scott, you demon. My bedroom is like surrounded by nowhere no living quarter that's like garage is on one side a backyard on one side a another building hallway on the other side. So like I can play games in my room kind of whenever. So what is the when moving games around when you have that many in a New York City apartment, what is the like optimal like I'm thinking like friends going up the stairwell screaming pivot scenario. Like how do you So first floor it's pretty easy in and out like literally my apartment door goes out and then there's like the building door to the street. So it's that much easy. I have to take the door off to get into my apartment cuz it's a little too small, but [laughter] Those hinges are great. You get rid of those hinges that means you're not scratching up your cabinets. So it's it's a win-win. I you can fit a Spike 2 without taking the door off just squeezes right through any uh anything else is is got to the door is got to come off. Well, I'm getting a dryer delivered uh this weekend and the door will be in fact coming off. to put a Hercules in there next? Gosh no, that game's boring. It's also like 10 ft wide. Yeah, I wouldn't that would be the Murphy bed. I'd have to put a mattress on top of it. There's no Hercules would make a great Murphy bed. Um you're getting some shout-outs man. You got a bunch of crew from Indisc saying hi. Melody from Ontilt. What's going on Melody? Good to see you. Uh Irish Luck also says he met you at Indisc and uh Stitch which we you met you at TPF when we were hanging out at the ScoreBit booth. Sweet. Hello. Hi. Call it a booth? I guess it's kind of a booth, right? It was it was a a booth in a booth cuz we were like in the Marco Yeah, it's like booth-ception, right? Yeah. I would say booth. We had we had seats and a table and a pinball machine. What else do you need? Not much. You had a No Fear in fact. Um so let's let's talk about the New York pinball scene cuz you've been in it for quite a while. You've been interviewed on the news talking about it recently. What was pinball like when you first started in it and how has it changed and how have you contributed to it? Cuz I feel like you know there's been a lot of pop-ups like Sunshine that we were talking about opened like in I don't know 2010 or something like that. Just pinball has come back in cities at as a location play thing. Yes, it's New York had like a really big pinball renaissance just before and then huge after COVID where like you you used to go to like league mat we have a team league here. Um and it's like doubles and singles and it's you know what and it's like that was kind of the only pinball that existed in the city and you would go somewhere and if like two flippers worked you'd play the game. Like that was kind of it that the shots of the register play I've played matches on Jurassic Park Pro where the left ramp doesn't register and you just have to find a new strat cuz Yeah, you can't start any modes. Can't do anything and it's just and that Jurassic Park we we ended up moving bars, but that Jurassic Park to this day there's a 50/50 shot if you go in there that the left ramp just doesn't register. Nice. But those are good odds. We you told me that this is like the old versus new operator mentality too cuz you know old you mentioned old operators if it flipped then [] it, but I feel like the modern take of it is like people want to go to places that have working games. Yeah, and I think everyone's like I like we have an operator at Buttermilk until Sunday I'm moving my games in and I am not an operator. So it's going to be a community effort. You are now. I know. [snorts] Yeah, it's I like I keep saying like I'm such a hater and I talk so much [] that I'm assuming I can curse you had Cliff on. Oh yeah, I've swear you haven't watched my stream clearly cuz I got a potty mouth. [laughter] I so I was just saying like I talk so much [] I am a certified hater that I can't wait for him to be like your game's [] suck. Jeez. And I deserve it. I deserve it. I absolutely am like just the most petty hater and I and I Well, it's going to come back at you now if you're running games. Oh, I'm putting my Stars on location. Like I can't I can't wait. It's going to be I I think I think it should be a mandatory rule that any sort of tiebreaker needs to take place on Stars if Stars is available. Sure. Someone Someone told me that game is actually called hipster pinball and I thought that was pretty funny. I you know it's one of those like there's the Indisc or Pinburgh effect on a game where it a game that's put in finals and you watch Zach McCarthy or whoever blow it up and all of a sudden everyone wants it. I have a Robocop because of the year with in Pinburgh finals. Like I was there and I was like ooh a game where you hit a ramp and rip a spinner. Those are the two things I know how to do. I want a Robocop. That's fun. [laughter] And I think Stars has been that game forever. Like I think the people that have been around in pinball as long as I've been alive all have a Stars. They all have a Stars. They've had it for years. And so like I don't I think hipster pinball's unfair because it's like Stars is cool, right? Like I know when like it before it was cool. Stars has always been cool. It's evil. It is evil. But it's always been cool. But it's like fair evil. I mean I would take Stars over like I don't know Flight 2000 or if we're talking like early Sterns Stern Electronics. I have two. I have Stars and I have Stargazer. I got a lot of star themed games in my bedroom. Uh but [laughter] there's Star Trek the Next Generation, Twilight Zone and Stargazer and Stars. Um Amazing. but Yeah, it's uh Stargazer is probably my favorite of the old Sterns. I just Spinners just and my spinners are very juicy. Are they juicy? Are you do you do you do you use lube I'm guessing? Carl swears by this one lube that but I use I use hops, but I'm still open to like other lubes, you know? I dated someone who was like a career pinball player. pro luber? Pro pro pro luber. Um but he swore by the oil that comes with like beard clippers or hair clippers [snorts] or whatever and that's what I use now and my spinners rip. So All right. Beard trimmers no, I guess. Um so Melody mentions she says also hey Steven Bowden's here. What's up Steve? Good to see you man. Um and we got pinball royalty in here. Well, we he his ears were ringing when we were talking about how narrow the Houdini shots are. Um Yeah. So Melody was saying that with online reporting for operators that there's no excuse now for for that. Do you I know Ontilt has like a QR code that you can scan and it brings up like an email if you need to like report an issue. Are you thinking of like going down that road or just yellowing it cuz you're going to be there you know because I'm assuming you work there as well. Yeah. I'll I'll be there two nights a week regardless. I'm going to try to the first like month or so is definitely going to be like figuring out the schedule that makes the most sense and so like making sure everything's working on Wednesday cuz we have league on Thursday and then the weekends. But we also have league on Monday and Tuesday. So I'm like trying to figure out the [laughter] There's team league Monday and Tuesday and then in the off season of team league there's like a summer team league and bells on Monday and Tuesday. We always have league on Thursdays. There's a monthly on Saturday. It's just like That's so much pinball. I love it. All right, so much pinball. For someone who's thinking about operating games like before we go back into the next New York City pinball scene, what would you say about committing to that? Because a lot of what I wanted to talk to you about is like not being afraid to like commit to do things. And we're going to talk about women in pinball and hosting more women's leagues because you are one of the contributors to the Bells and Chimes leagues all across the nation, right? You you you talked about how in San Francisco was the original one and then you helped to set up the New York City one and then help operate many of the other ones or contribute. Oakland was the first one. Rebecca Schneider who I don't think plays pinball anymore, but she started Bells and Chimes and then a woman in New York named Anna Wolk messaged her and said hey I want to start a chapter in New York. Can I do that? And so that we were the second chapter and I was just go play and after a couple years like I started helping her and uh this woman Jade Ang who is on my pinball team uh kind of run it and Jade took a little pinball vacation a couple years ago and now it's me, Caitlin James Rees, Michelle Colomer and Annie Polland and we just have a really good like everyone knows their strengths. Everyone has like their thing that like Michelle if you need an email Michelle's got you. That email is going to get everything you need to know no fluff. It's going to be well done. Like that's like we all have our little roles and it's been working out. So so team up with people so you don't get overwhelmed it sounds like it's like probably one of the first steps. Yes, I I overbook myself regularly and then I just have like full breakdowns and it's very unhealthy and I don't recommend doing that. So breakdowns don't help handling pinball stuff. If anything. Um I'm Yeah, literally anything. It's not good. Yeah. Um but going the operating thing our current operator Max is like one of the last old school operators in the city. Pretty much all the people operating now with the exception of uh one operator in Williamsburg and then the that owns Sunshine and Scrapple and kind of showed up in the last like five or so years. Um and there's just a little bit of like a different mentality of like everything should play right and work. And there's like people that will complain constantly about like, "Well, these games lean." Or this is like whatever. And I do, I get frustrated when there's like something bad with a game, but the games that are currently at Buttermilk are junk. They are location games. We've got cheap beer. We have gross bathrooms. And the pinball is fine. But there's Yeah, that's like just part of the character of it. Yeah, just you can't expect going in and and playing like home use only games at every location. That's just part of the experience of playing pinball like on a location. I don't I don't mind when a game leans. It's just like part of the challenge, right? It's when things are fundamentally broken that I don't know, ruin the fun. You mentioned the Jurassic Park ramp. That's a good example. Yeah. Wait, and we So, that's the same operator. Um and he's he's only Like we'd been talking for years that he And he's aware of it. He was like, "Buttermilk requires more attention than I'm really able or willing to give." Like this is not his full-time job. It's kind of a hobby that he does for fun. And so, he was just like, "You should take it over. You like built the community. You work at the bar. You do all the things. Like you should take it over." And there was a league night and everything was broken and I was like, "Hey, this is broken. Hey, this is broken. Hey, this is Can you please come in the next few days and fix this stuff?" And then he was like, "It's time. I'm done. You scared him off. You were like, "I can't He can't I can't take it anymore. There's too many broken games. [] it." [laughter] Yeah, and but it was actually really nice. Like he was like, "You should like you should be the person doing this because you care about it." Sure. And so, you know, I can do very little as far as tech work, but I have Shout out David Barber uh comes up usually like once a month just to work on my games at home. And so, now I'm going to just be like, "Please take my money and make sure my games work so people aren't mean to me." It's a fair transaction. Um Melody mentioned Electric Bat has a Discord set up for reporting broken games. I think part like the technology has also improved the ability to communicate between operators and like the people playing the games. Yeah, there's been like I once made a Google form where you could just fill out like what game's broken and what's wrong with it for here. And then I'm like, "Oh, if you're in my house, you're going to talk to me. You should just tell me." Like But that might work for for the bar. Buttermilk, yeah. Well, for the bar like we have a Discord that's pretty popular for New York, but our regulars and our and the pinball scene like overlap greatly. So, if something is broken, it will get told to the bartender and get back to me. Even when they're not my games like I have the direct line to our operator. So, I would frequently be the one to get the message saying, "Hey, this is broken." And then I could tell him. So, speaking of your games, what is it like to have with your first tournament that you hosted in your home? The first I hosted a few smaller ones in my like tiny apartment before. And then the first one I hosted here, I did 44 people. That's a lot of people. too many people. But it's also the only one that I won because now all my friends are really familiar with my games. So, [laughter] I don't have any I like any advantage whatsoever. But uh it I love hosting. Like I love hosting I host Christmas. I host Thanksgiving. I host New Year's. I host Halloween. I love hosting. So, having like the ability to then be like, "Hello, friends. Come over and let's get some Whoppers." And then I make silly medals and we do like a food theme and Hear me out. Hear me out. Is this the new way of farming Whoppers, right? You play your games. You don't let anybody come over. Then you host a tournament. Everybody comes over. You win. Then you replace all of your games and just play the hell out of them. Don't allow anybody over. Then host another tournament. Like is this the new way? The flaw in my plan in that plan is that I'm so overly social that like I simply could not I don't turn my games on. I get I get like absolute [] for it from all of my friends. Like there's that kid here Dante Olivas who's like top four in INDISC and he's like really really good. And he constantly is like, "Hey, you might do better at tournaments at your house if when you were at your house, you turned your games on and played them." And I'm like, [laughter] "That's crazy. Why would I Ouch. So, Well, I like how that's the hardest part. It's not buying 14 new pinball machines and moving 14 pinball machines out and then 14 new ones in. Like I like how that isn't the challenge. Yours is like, "Ah, I don't know if I'm going to turn them on and play them." [laughter] I do It's like So, I And to be fair, I also of the games I have here, I have three more. I I bought a Metallica for the bar. Uh Metallica original premium uh that Gene Wang reached out and was like, "I've played it. I think I'm still the GC and it is very strobe-lighty." And I'm like, "Oh, that's going to be really good in my pitch-black bar." [laughter] Yeah. Light it up. So, that might need to be tweaked. Uh I picked up a Diner as well. And I have a Future Spa that's getting shopped cuz I love Future Spa. I like that Future Spa is like the players' meme pinball machine. Like I make a lot of jokes about a certain game on the channel here that I'll I'll get to later. But Future Spa is got to be the like trolliest wide-body experience. And And it's such a fun tournament game. It when you play the one in the Women's Bank at INDISC was so phenomenally mean. I say that, but Carrie Hill, I think almost rolled it in finals. Like in the first round of finals. I think I put up 16,000 points. [laughter] Like it was so I was just like Every plunge went to the hole. I could not I don't think I touched the ball with a flipper. And I was like, "Oh, okay." I And it it is great to be humbled when you own a game and then you play it somewhere else and you're like, "Oh, it's me. That's good to know." [laughter] But it's when when you play a playable Future Spa and mine was on like baby mode where like the gate was always open or extra open and Sure. like the tilt was pretty loose. There's a video of a a woman during when I hosted Women's States, Danny, like double-bouncing the ball and getting it over the gap. The gap, yeah. And it was just like Every part of that game is mean. Like the left the left inlane outlane scenario is just this like [] of nightmare hell. And then, you know, you think you're safe on the right side. But no, you've got like It's like playing Pitfall for like the Atari. You've just got this [] giant pit. [laughter] in guide or whatever like is open, right? You can't trap up. Sure. And I never feel dumber than when I go for to a trap and the ball just rolls off something. It's more insulting on Future Spa because it does it so slowly. Like it is it is like painfully slow. And I'm just like, "Oh, okay." We had a Harley-Davidson for a short period at On Tilt. And that also has the like go [] yourself like if you try to trap up, it goes through the gates and you go to hell. But I do I like inverted in inlanes like outlane inlanes like Fathom or whatever. And that that had that, too. I I do love like like the Kong left mess I enjoy uh though when it goes down the middle one, I I don't enjoy. [laughter] But but I overall like really like that. It's a good thing you didn't get that Hurricane then or Comet. I forget which one it is that has that same Comet has the same, yeah. Yeah. And but I like like I love the Stargazer like weird flipper cup roll over not inlanes only outlane thing. Yeah. Uh Which you'd think it would be easy to keep the ball in play. But I feel like Stargazer drains just as much or maybe even more than any pinball machine of that like '80s era. My Stargazer the tilt came off and I just let it rock for a few tournaments. And you just let people find out organically. And all of a sudden, you're just like, "Oh, I can do anything." And everyone was putting up like 3 million points. Isn't that like insider trading in pinball, though? I feel like, you know. I must say, again, have not won since the first tournament I hosted. Okay. Well, if you're not making money off of that, then it doesn't count as insider trading, right? [laughter] It is borderline impossible to make money hosting pinball tournaments in your home. I I've only lost money doing it. Well, so San Antonio Pinball has pointed that out, too, that the ROI from pinballs is is terrible. Return on investment. It's just like people that have pinball machines in locations is generally because they love pinball and they're trying to create an atmosphere. They're trying to make It's like you'd put claw machines or whatever basketball shoot hoops. Electric Bat has a interesting breakdown of like their earnings reports. And it's interesting to see that a lot of the like non ar- non-pinball the like throwaway money arcade games like really rake it in. But like who who wants to play that as a pinball person? Yeah. Well, and at least in like cities like New York, real estate is so limited that if my customer base is people that play in pinball leagues and stuff, I'm going to maximize how many pinball machines I can fit. We have a pool table cuz we have also like a big pool crew. We have a bunch of pool teams that play out of the bar and stuff. Our pool table surrounded by walls. It is the most hated table. It is in like okay enough shape. It It's a huge advantage to me. cues is just like ripping through the wall. There's just like holes all around it. because you can't shoot on one side of the the table. Right. You got to go high angle, high altitude pool. Right. And if if a if a claw machine I could fill with like 50 bucks worth of worth of chachkies would make me four times as much money as the pinball machines, to me it still isn't worth it. I'm also not putting my games in the bar for like a sort like a source of income. You like at this point, I just want to have good games I like in the bar that work and like by the time I factor in buying games for the bar and all the parts and everything like that, it's going to be a long time till I make the money back and it's the dream, I guess, but [laughter] it's like Are you Are you going to be hosting Sorry. Are you Are you thinking about hosting pinball in the bar at some point or Oh, yeah, we we already do. We have team league on Mondays and Tuesdays. We're going to do our second summer season of bells out of the bar. Uh we do one in We usually do two and we'll do one at Barcade. They have a huge one in FiDi with like 25 games. That's been like really good. We had the largest with 45 people play in our finals. Like 45 people showed up to play in finals. We had eight in A, eight in B and then we had the biggest B finals I've ever seen in our bells. That's awesome. we it's like yeah, the it's it's off every train. Like everyone can get there. So it was just like it's a no-brainer. And then we're going to do another season. sure. Yeah, and in a city where most people don't have any form of transportation that is not a bus or a train. It's like uh and then the second season will be at Buttermilk and the bar across the street Rullo's. We'll We like go It's nice in the summer. We can like you can walk back and forth between rounds and like they have piña coladas like in a like a frozen machine and a little backyard and we have cheap crappy beer and it's just like a good mix. It's like puzzle pieces. You had mentioned too that you're determining on what games to get based on so there's no crossover with their lineup. Yeah, cuz currently we both have Kong and all the games at Buttermilk have the extra balls turned off and some of them are on like versions of tournament settings. They're still friendly but like the games my games are all on tournament settings already and I will like I would like to keep them friendly but they're Sure. mostly because it sucks when league night ends at 12:30 and most people have to wake up for work the next day. Yep. If games are set too easy, you end up playing 7-8 hours of pinball instead of Right, but if it's too difficult, then your casuals coming in to play pinball that are just there for a drink are getting frustrated and then don't want to play pinball. Like how do you balance this? Our when our top group, cuz we do Swiss pairing for our league, when our top group ends up on Kong or Twilight Zone, it's just like Yeah. everyone take a break. It's going to be an hour. Like it just is what it is. And my Twilight Zone is much meaner than the one we currently have at the bar, so that's going in there. Nice. Wait, what's mean about your Twilight Zone? I have a Twilight Zone too, that's why I'm curious. It It So maybe a year and a half ago I cleaned all my playfields, was getting the place ready for a tournament, had friends come over and we like cleaned and waxed Twilight Zone and then we played three practice games. All very good pinball players. The highest score of those three games was like 40 million. Wow. Yeah. so lightning fast. Like there was So it's gotten a little better. My scoop is dangerously close to shooting down the middle. It does go to the right flipper but it is it's like one If it's on level, I think it'll be bad. So I'm going to try to adjust that before. [laughter] Yeah. Without a safety out of that scoop, it's pretty much just like over. [laughter] Well, there was a when it was too fast, it would just shoot down the middle and I had to adjust it eventually. But I remember like two players in a row full plunged and it shot down the middle and then it happened to the third player and he was like, "Should we should all get comp balls?" And I'm like, "You watched two people miss the skill shot and then drain down the middle and then you said I should do that too?" Right. That's that's on you. You've made that decision at that point. [laughter] The advantage of not being first is you got to see where the scoop shoots and you went. But it was actually just really mean and it wasn't fair. I like that you're You're like, "Man, you knew that. You shouldn't have done that." But also like yeah, that sucks. I wouldn't Yeah, [] Sorry. [] that. [laughter] Um Well, so fascinating. So How do you like what is the decision factor of putting your own games onto a location like that? Cuz they're going to get played. Like for people that are like so attached to their games that are like home use games. Like how do you release your worry about that so that these games can be played on location? The Most of the games that are going have been routed before, so I'm a little less precious about them. My like my Twilight Zone, I think was it's from California. Uh it I believe was in 82 for a while and Uh Yeah. And what it was my on by Danny, I would imagine. We had It might be before Danny and he had games there and then like when we broke up, I was supposed to buy a bunch of his games and COVID happened and he was like, "You should buy my Twilight Zone. I'll give you a great deal on it. It's your fav It is my favorite game." And he was like, "You should buy it. You should buy it." So I bought Twilight Zone. I have no regrets. I love it. It's my baby. And like but it sat like the cabinet's fully faded. It's fully fully faded. But I have like a new art package for it that I'll probably never put on there. Sure. Because play on the outside, so. Right. And it's going to like it's going to be in the bar. It's going to be by the window cuz the cabinet's already faded. I don't really care if it sits by the window. Like my Johnny was on location. My Stars was on location. This Robocop was on location. So I'm fine kind of putting them out there and getting played. Like what's the point of having the games if they don't get played? That being said, my Lord of the Rings and my Tron are not going on location because they are home use only and they are beautiful. Do [laughter] you think pinball machines get nervous when they're like there's discussion about them being routed? Do you think they like get together and be like, "Oh [] like she's going to put me" Like it's like Toy Story, like they talk to each other? No, I think I think they go, "If she puts me out there, day one I'm breaking." Something that never broke before, I'm absolutely Like the my games will play perfectly on a Friday night and then my tournament will start at 2:00 p.m. on a Saturday and like six things break. So Maybe that's why they break. It's like they're trying to like, you know, "Well, you better take me out of this bar cuz I never work, you know?" Yeah. Oh, no. You Dang, you should probably take me home where it's nice and comfy. Put me Put me in your the bed or the sofa and take care of me and don't let all these drunk people pour beer on me. Yeah. The My parties the tournaments here turn into parties. Uh you can ask pretty much anyone who's ever come. Like you usually like shots between each game in finals and stuff. It's Nice. Uh people get I think drunker at the tournaments here than at just a random night at the bar at this point. I get Can I get one memorable moment that is amazing from your home leagues and one that's like wow, I wish that hadn't happened? Um memorable Chad from the Delaware Collective came. Well, he came with his wife and then she got sick, so she just stayed in her hotel all day and I felt so bad. But Chad came and he brought margaritas and like old fashioneds or something like with shakers and like salts and was just like the party machine. Like as I am the party machine. I am a shot goblin. He outshined me. Like he would just walk into a room and be like, "Who needs a margarita?" Like it was it was a wild experience. It was great. Amazing. And [clears throat] like It was Yeah, and it was one of the most fun times I've had here. Like it was a really good time. I think the only There's like I have a This is a really old house from 1895. The pipes are terrible and very small and very shitty. And uh I have signs all over my bathroom that say like, "Please don't flush anything that isn't toilet paper down." Like, "Please." Twice I've had my uh sewer line back up into my basement which is like a crawl space. It's an unfinished gross ass basement that like floods. That's That sounds horrible and like you're never going to get the stench out out of that. You know, shots makes a lot of sense for pinball. Like cuz you don't have Like you got to put your drink down. Like normally I'd be like shots are so like that's like a college thing, right? But no, for pinball it makes sense. You got a limited amount of time in between games. Like, you know? New York and Chicago, which are the two cities I have the most time spent in. But New York and Chicago are the two cities I've been to where shot culture is for everybody. It's not just for kids. And I think it's because they're also the two of the least driving places. They fully equipped transit systems. Because I am 35. I am one of the younger people in my like core friend group. And we we all do shots just all the damn time. There's a full bar in my kitchen. With like shot Yeah. It's Yeah, I you know, it's fun. Pinball Pinball Club took the Pinball Fight Club took the words right out of my mouth. Can I Can I admit something to you? I love Malört. Pinball Fight Club I believe is the owner of from Logan Arcade who gives me Malört swag every time I go to Chicago and I have little airplane nips that he gave me a few years ago and then Brian O'Neill and his wife Allison were at Fantastic and they're like, "We have a gift for you." And it was more Malort and See? I Like once you've had it, you get it. Yeah, Pinball Santa put Malort in my mouth. So, like I've just like I'm in the club. Like I feel like that's a good shot for Pinball. And it's I I think grapefruit in every form is disgusting and so I think Campari is disgusting and Malort to me just tastes like a non-sweet Campari. Like Okay, now now we're done here. I just Sorry. They're both just bitter. They're just bitter. You're bitter. You're bitter about Malort. I am. I No, I love Malort. I don't like Campari. It's like I'm like if you just removed the grapefruitiness from Campari, I'd be fine with it. Aperol, however, delightful. One of my favorite drinks is Aperol based and bourbon. Here, let's if if Can I Can I test your bartenderness? Shall we do that? Oh, I'm a dive bar bartender, so I will fail the test. Let's go. Well, a paper plane is my is my drink. I love a paper plane. With a gun to my head, couldn't tell you what's in it. It's bourbon, lemon juice, Aperol, and amaro. It's really good. That sounds good. Yeah, it's it's like it's like bourbon lemonade kind of. Um I when I before my boyfriend and I were dating, he's also a bartender. He came to Buttermilk for league. He ordered an old-fashioned and I shook it and poured it over ice and he was like, "You shake your old-fashions? You don't stir them." And I was like, "You ordered an old-fashioned at a bar that has literal duct tape holding pieces of it together." Right. Like know know where you're ordering your drink. This is on you, buddy. Yeah. I didn't even think we had a spoon. We do. There's one spoon. One's all you need. I have been negligent with chat and so I'm going to rapid-fire you with about 45 minutes worth of chat stuff. Let's go. Uh we'll we'll go in reverse order here. So, San Antonio Pinball wants to know how much you planning on pay uh cost charging people for playing Pinball. Uh match replay settings, how many do are you going to do? Like three for $2, seven for five, that kind of stuff. So, Pinball in New York right now is standard a dollar a game. On the older games, I think I'm going to do three games for $2. It just seems more fair. I have to also figure out if I can even get a bill acceptor in Two Stars. So, that just might have to be on quarters anyway. Um like we can, it just means that David is going to have to cut a hole in the coin door. So, not ideal, especially if we have a little bit of a time constraint. accept that format normally. No. Um so, that's Well, we have a quarter machine at the bar, so it's like work around until we figure out the best solution for it, but hopefully we can get a bill acceptor in there. Um but I for like match and replay settings, I think everything should just be like somewhat fair. There's a There's a location here that doesn't give matches or replays, you get extra balls and I'm morally against that. Yeah, that sounds like a terrible idea. balls should be off. I I If you win or lose a game because of a plunge extra ball, no one feels good about it. Like Yeah. So, but like I think I like the idea of replays, but there's a handful of operators here who and I understand the sentiment, which is if you got a replay, that means you played a really long time, you don't need to play it again for free. Right. Which fair, but I'm just like reward me for being good. So, I'd like to keep everything as fair as possible and that's like a learning curve as far as what I think people feel are standard settings. Going into it with the like we it's a 50/50 split with the bar, so like the bar needs to have its money and I am less concerned about it because the bar is my job and so it's a makes it a little easier to be friendlier to the like player base. I feel like the 50/50 split's pretty normal for for cost. I I've heard from other operators that that's generally kind of the cost of putting the games and taking up the space. Um you know, I feel like when I play and I get an extra game in a replay, like whether it's at a bar or something like that, I'll walk away and just leave it on there for the hopes that somebody who may be curious about Pinball will, you know, go up to it and hit it because it's free at that point, but you know. Yeah. Um Sterling's dad said that he got five new home use only games and took them to a comic book shop and they make about $25 a week. Oof, that's that's that's rough. I've I've heard from most people that have machines it's somewhere around $150 or $200 a week if you have a lot of foot traffic or can be. Um but, you know, that's like uh arcades that have a a whole lot of people going through there. Um but that's tough. That's $33,000 worth of games. Yeah. I like I started buying games with the idea of buying the bar or opening my own bar, putting the games in and like having what is I guess slowly happening now. So, the like because I've had most of my games for five plus years in my home and I've played them whenever I've wanted to, I get there's a little less of that like this game cost this much money and it needs to make this much money or it's not worth it. Like because if I if a game isn't doing well on the bar, I'll bring it home and I'll swap it with something else and I'd like to to rotate the lineup somewhat consistently. That being said, like Twilight Zone unless it has some major issues will probably never leave because it is unfair to make someone move a Twilight Zone more than ever necessary. Heavy ass game. It's a heavy game. Safecracker's heavier. Really? That's weird cuz it's so much smaller. It's some a combination of the tokens and just the density of the board game or something. But Twilight Zone is 285 and Safecracker's 295. Well, there you go. Man, I didn't know you weighed them. I just [laughter] My for Twilight Zone's getting like When I when I first moved in to this apartment, the foundation had like settled and the floor was collapsing and so I was like, "What can I put where and how much does each game weigh?" Got you. The light games on one side, the heavy games on the other. My bedroom is on solid concrete. There's nothing underneath but concrete, so like that was like, "Okay, we'll put Star Trek and Twilight Zone back there." All light bodies can go in that room. [laughter] Yeah. Um Um Pizza Jake says that his body turns Jameson into jackpots. That's a bold claim. It There is There's I have a two-part theory cuz I am bad at morning Pinball because I am not a morning person. I have worked nights for over 20 years, so like and crew improve scoring? Uh well, there will be times I'm not doing well at a tournament and then I crack a Surfside or a White Claw or whatever and I have a couple of drinks and all of a sudden I'm doing really well. And it's the I think later in the day makes me better. There's also the idea that a lot of tournaments are Swiss pairing and so if you were having a rough start, you're having a little bit of an easier go toward the end. Uh but I like to think that that uh you know, just I'm so good at drinking that when I do it, I get better at stuff. [laughter] It is insane. I I look, I am a mediocre Pinball player. I am very good at my job and part of being good at my job is being good at drinking and it is like What's What's the peak zone for for Pinball performance? Like how drunk do you need to be to have maximum jackpots? I actually play better completely sober and like usually like for INDISC and stuff, like I just won't drink for a week leading up to it and I won't drink the whole week I'm there and like I tend to do better that way. When I'm at home, my rule is doesn't matter if I'm going to make finals or not. We do 10 rounds usually. Round eight, I'm doing a shot. I'm cracking a drink. It's fun time cuz if I make finals and I take it seriously, no one's having fun. If you take it seriously, no one's having fun. So, have a good time. True truer words have never been spoken. If you are getting If you're getting mad doing something that you love, take a step back. Laws is 395. That's horrific. Yeah. Dialed In apparently is 350. That's what Sterling's dad said. Also, Pizza Jake is doubling down and saying that four Jamos. Also, shame on you for referring to Jameson as a Jamo. I don't even know how to begin to respond to that. What? I fully support this this criticism. No, no, from you. I agree with you. Oh, okay. Okay. Thank you. [laughter] There There are It's weird like it's okay to call Tullamore Dew Tully, but it is not okay to call Jameson Jamo and I don't know why. I don't know why, but those are just the unwritten rules of life we have to follow. Agreed. Melody says flipping off a machine is totally normal behavior. Absolutely, I do that. I definitely have gotten mad at leagues, but you got to like immediately get over it. Like you can get temporarily grumpy, but then like, you know, it's gravy. Well, I mean Have you heard about Chairgate from this weekend? Oh, no. Tell me more. Kate and I love gossip. Um okay. Uh at the Delaware Pinball Collective Circuit event this weekend, Eric Stone drained and punched the chair and broke the arm of the chair and there was a lot of gossip about that. And Eric is like notably has tantrums and like so it was like a he gets away with it cuz he's a top player and he gets away with it cuz of X, Y, and Z stuff like that. So, Is that okay though? Like should people get away with stuff for having, you know, No. I think be meaner to top players because I'll never be one. Uh but like I know a lot of people who take things very seriously. I know a lot of people who are really poor losers. I know people that are poor losers and Yeah. poor winners, like really ungracious winners and then really miserable losers. And I'm just like, you have to pick one. Like you can't you can't make it suck for everybody no matter the circumstances. Yeah. But I have like I have I am a I am a a person with a uterus, so my hormones are sometimes out of my control and I have cried when I've lost games. And I just leave the room, let it out, and then come back. And it was like the the last one I specifically remember was states this year. I was playing my best friend. The year before I had to play my boyfriend. I'm just really getting like the short end of the stick here. I'm playing my best friend and I needed like a single spinner rip on Alien Star to at least win the game and I could not for the life of me do anything. And I drained and there was like a local local reporter there that wanted to interview us about like women's states cuz I'm the state rep. Sure. And you're like, human mad. And they were like, "Hey, are you ready to talk now?" And I was like, "NO." AND SHE WAS LIKE, "WHAT?" AND I WAS LIKE, "I'M GOING [laughter] TO GO CRY." AND THEN I CAME BACK LIKE 5 minutes later like and I was like, "Now I'm fine. This is fine." There you go. He's got to do it. I mean, I think that anybody who's played pinball competitively knows the feeling of just needing that one shot and like it seems like no matter what you do, it's just like it couldn't be farther away. [laughter] Yeah. So I think there's nothing like if someone blows you out and you do not have a shot, it's okay. When you when it's when it's a switch, when it's that one shot that you missed, it's it's brutal. Like it's just brutal cuz you're like, it's actually me. Like there's no excuse. Right. There you're the only one playing the game at the end of the day, right? Um Steve Steve says it's not as graceful as the legendary TTA chair kicking. What is the legendary TTA chair kicking? Is this story time? Augustine's chair kick? I believe. Uh someone posted a clip of it. It is fairly funny. Some guy is playing another game and locked a ball or get something, who knows what. But he just like is doing a little jig and has a bad drain and then he just kicks a chair. So there's a guy like doing a little dance and someone else kicking a chair in the same like 5 seconds. That's funny. I think somebody posted that on Raymond's Reidays Discord. yesterday. Um That's that's hilarious. Uh it can't be as cool as though as Indisc where you had the cocktail pinball machine. If we're talking about kicking chairs, let's talk about sitting in chairs and playing pinball. That's pretty great, right? Night Moves is the greatest cocktail game. It is not even close. Night Night Moves is in fact the best. Um should actually play Night Moves by Bob Steeger. It is unfortunate it does not. But it is a good game. I did not play it once during Indisc. I barely finished one and a half main cards at Indisc. Um like I just was focusing on classics and then I wasted a little too much time on women's not getting bus driver and just made and then also like helped run Indisc, so I'm just usually running around. Shout out Indisc. It is actually the best tournament in the world. And then there's spa. I've heard the new location is where it's at. Like spas everywhere. Like it's like a retreat. I found we literally found four spiders on four different days in our hotel room and one of them was a black widow. Oh. And I still think it's the best tournament location I've ever been to. You get black widows, but you also have really nice spas. Hey. Well, I we found one and we got it out of the room. We set up like a Home Alone trap and we got it out. And then the next day we found another one. did you get it with like Legos on the floor or something? Like what did you do? Garbage can under it was on a curtain. Garbage can under the curtain, smash the curtain and then took like a tray that was in the room and put it over the garbage can. And then brought it outside. got to be honest, I was imagining more like a paint can like swung down and like hit the black widow and then you like came out and you were like, "Say hello to my little friend." or something. My paint can spider accuracy is not yet there to How? The paint can's huge. It's not like a Houdini, you know, shot. But ooh, shots fired. Uh I But the second one we found, took a picture of it, put it outside, and then Jim Elsedo, who's a Southern California native, I'm like, "We found these two spiders. This is the one we found last night." And he was like, "Oh, don't worry about him. He's nice." And I was like, "This is the one we found today." And he was like, "Stay away from her." And I was That one's not so nice, yeah. [laughter] Uh-oh. Jim lives on a a ranch out in the middle of nowhere-ish and you know, I feel like you would know a little bit about spiders and the natural California critters, right? All right, we got Dr. John in the chat. Speaking of places that have terrifying giant spiders, Aussieland. What's up? I saw one spider while I was in Australia. I saw a huntsman in our I was in an Airbnb with Dr. John. Those are the big ones, right? But it was a little baby, so he was like this big. I have a picture on the wall of our like the downstairs bathroom of this Airbnb. And uh Alex from Netherworld was staying with us as well. And I'm like and John had given me lots of wine. And I was like, "Alex, I need my phone. There's a spider." And he was like, "Please don't kill the spider with your phone." And I was like, "I want to take a picture of it." Like I don't [laughter] want to smash a spider with my phone. That's a weird thing to But it was the And that's not my first choice for spider killing is, you know, a phone. No. Yeah. Like shoes first. cup and remove. Um they eat bugs, so you get to stay. Sure. but like don't I'm allergic to a lot of spiders. I very famously, at least among my friends around here, got a spider bite a few years ago that turned into a staph infection. Uh that's not good. Yeah. That's like weeks and weeks of antibiotics to get rid of good. Yeah. Uh-huh. And I had to wear like a sock cut into a sleeve to cover my arm because they're extremely contagious. Yeah, it was good times. Oh, great. Yeah. go to Did you go to the flu tournament with that, too? You were just like, "I'm going to go with my staph infection and my flu." [laughter] No, that one the you're only contagious for like 3 days, so I just stayed at home with like an antibiotic thing or something. And Dr. John can correct me on the um contagiousness of it. there's a koala sighting. This This is my little spider friend. That's not that scary. From huntsman land, I feel like that's like almost cute. Oh, yeah. They're supposed to be like the size of a a hand. Right. Supposed to be. [laughter] He was a They're very fast, which I didn't expect. Uh and so he like kind of ran across the wall and I was like, "Well, that is unsettling." But um overall I'm a a fan of the spider. So. Dr. John says it's not contagious. They just wanted to lock you up. Oh, well, that's fine. I As I get older, I never want to leave my house. And at the time I still had my dog. And so like my dog was very old and he was sick and I was just like, "I don't need to go out because my dog's here." Right. Animals and pinball machines is really all you need. Yeah. The last year I had my dog, he came with me to like every single pinball tournament. And I would just message TDs and be like, "Hey, I have signed up for your thing. My dog is 13 and has heart failure and I don't feel like I can leave without him anymore. Sorry to be that girl." Yeah. He didn't do like he spoiled me for if I get another dog, I'm going to be like, "Oh, you make noises and you do stuff." cuz he would just like you could put him on a chair and he'd just be like, "Hello." Was he a good pinball player? No, but he is on he's I have it next to me. He's the keychain that comes with Avengers Infinity Quest. That's cute. Um and he's on the Godzilla pro backglass. And he's default initials on Dune. But you worked on, I believe. Did. I did. I didn't realize he was the default initials on Dune. Interesting. He I I have a picture of it somewhere. There's a a page of four initials and it's Lyman, Penny, Linus, who was my dog, and me. And I'm like, it's I don't feel like I belong there on the same page as Lyman and Penny, but I'll take it. Yeah, that's an That's Come on, take it. You You have done a lot for pinball in New York. You have done a lot for getting more women into pinball, which is honestly like needs to happen. The gatekeeping man club of what has been pinball for decades is at least seems to be I don't know. It seems like pinball is like blowing up again like you said both in New York and elsewhere and that getting more people into pinball is where it's at. I think like the idea of Right, like there's an overall cultural trend of like younger people drink less. And so the idea of going to a bar and not having something to do is kind of dead in the like up-and-coming who would be a bar regular. And so if you give them something to do like pinball, like playing pool, like playing darts, Right. it Hey, if you're worried about people If you're worried about spending $10 on a drink or whatever, I mean, that's a lot of pinball, [laughter] you know. You get four, five games in that depending on how much they're charging or whatever. We still have $5 beer. We still have multiple $5 beers. We just had We had We had to raise High Life to five after years of keeping it at four. I was like But we switched to bottles, so it feels nicer. Oh, that makes Yeah, that makes it better. Really classy. Yeah. Um I hate beer, so I don't have an opinion either way about bottles or cans. But uh You're a bartender. Okay. I I used to drink beer and I got the occasional I'll have a Guinness, but I like the invention of White Claw and the invention of Truly Spiked Seltzer. I was like, "Oh, someone heard me." Like I would like a little sweet treat. I [laughter] Um It If you put me in a water setting of a pool or a beach and you hand me a piña colada, I cannot be happier. That's my That's how I feel about That's the right drink for this setting though as well, right? Oh, yeah. All right, I've got I got a fast round. We're over an hour. This is crazy. I can't believe we've been we're shooting the [] about all this for over an hour. Um All right, most overrated pinball machine. Most overrated pinball machine, Medieval Madness. WHOA! BACK it up. It's fine. It's fine, but it is not as good as it is rated. I think Attack from Mars is far better also because aliens are cooler than peasants. Uh Hm, interesting. I have an Attack from Mars, but I don't I would say Medieval Madness is the is the better version cuz they're similar games on so many levels. There's There's more in Medieval Madness as far as the stacking the multiballs versus the Total Nuclear Annihilation type thing. Uh like Reign of Pain versus the universe whatever. They are very similar games. Uh I But I think it is egregiously overrated because at the end of the day, the amount of time that I've played someone who has gone for the strat and I've just smashed a couple castles and won is like stupid. That is Yeah. Stupid. Um I think the game is good. I don't think it is a bad game. I just think that its rating is too high. I I think of Attack from Mars is like comfort food, right? Like the object Like it's a simple game, but it's like so satisfying. Like all of the things that you can do on it are are truly satisfying and really kind of And I played it for 10 years before I even knew how to get to Total Nuclear Annihilation. Like I didn't know that was a thing because I was like not It was never in tournaments. And the one by us which was in horrible condition and is currently the one that's in Buttermilk and is in okay condition. Um [laughter] You're trying not to slander said operator. You'd be lucky to get the ball around to even attempt a super skill shot. Interesting. Well, the dragon ramp is like always like a dead end usually on location games just cuz the flippers just can't hang with it. Uh Yeah. Steve Steve is chiming in saying that the Attack from Mars is better because of its shield and that that's the answer to that question. That's why Attack from Mars is better than Medieval Madness. Can't It's hard to argue with that. Yeah. Thank you for Thank you for the bid, Izzy. Yeah, man. Uh all right, best game to have at a party. What's the best party pinball machine? Ooh. Um Stars Stars is what gets played the most in my house when people come over. Like it's always just can we play Stars? I will say however Powerball Tron is a rip-roaring time. Ooh. so [laughter] damn expensive, my Tron is my only game that's all powerballs. Although on New Year's Eve uh some of my friends and my boyfriend I was like in the kitchen doing something. I look over and two of my games are open and they're like, "We're putting the power powerballs in Johnny Mnemonic." And I was like, "All right." Um But if you put not going to work very good on that. [laughter] The glove's already [snorts] broken. No problem. That's right. Good point. If you If you put powerballs in a game that's already mean, it becomes significantly more fun in my opinion. Can I Can I tell you a idea that I'm going to do for a video at some point that's going to be financially crippling to the channel? All powerballs, Apollo 13. Oh god. I do believe they're cheaper on Pinball Life. Uh Still got to buy 13. I have three because of Twilight Zone, you know, I've got one clean one and two dirty ones. Uh you know, and I have some glow balls in my Ghostbusters. I don't know those don't count cuz they're steel core, right? Yeah. I have I have the like virtual powerball on my Twilight Zone. I took the powerball out and it's like every other gumball is powerball. Got you. So it takes away your ability to get the 2x jackpot. Also, it's not really fair. Well, no because um famously during Pinburgh someone practiced out of order back when you could just practice in whatever order for 30 seconds and plunge, so it would leave him the powerball Ooh. That's deep strats. Deep strats. Uh [laughter] And so it became like, "Oh, you shouldn't use Twilight Zone because it's an unfa- like only certain people can get powerball if it's just about the cycle. So it makes it more fair to put a regular ball in and set it to powerball no or something like that. Right. So then every three you get it, so at least it's more standardized. I mean, that makes more sense from a tournament rules kind of perspective as opposed to just draining with the powerball and then everybody gets the powerball. You know, you lock three balls or whatever, two balls, and then every time the powerball's in the trough, it's basically the next one up, so there's a lot of like quirky annoying powerball things that can happen. Sign out says that if I did that with the Apollo 13, it would double the value of Apollo 13. It's not not inaccurate. in fact Uh powerball John Wick actually sounds like the meanest thing I can think of. That's like one of the specific layers of hell. Like there's, you know, limbo, there's powerball John Wick. I don't know any other like There's Yeah, just more hell [] right? [laughter] I have the like I had normal size pinballs in my Safe Cracker for a while and it was just actually too easy. And Safe Cracker is not an easy game. Um and I put the like 1-in versus the 1 and 1/4-in ones back in there and I'm like, "Oh, better." Really? But I wonder I disconnected it. Mostly because my games do get played a lot and I didn't want to run out of tokens. I do have a bunch, but like they were I don't know. I give them to people here and there, but I like them a lot. You know, memorabilia things. The first time the first game I played where I got the to the vault, when the token shot out on the glass, it was so violent. Like it is just it hits the glass. It is the loudest noise and like it was in my bedroom and I was just like, "Jesus Christ!" Like it was so So then I was like, "We don't need We don't need this. This is is unnecessary." But I have like 100 tokens in a bag and every once in a while I just kind of give a few out. That's a lot. Can you buy them? They must have them on Pinball Life or something. Game It came with You can You can get some made, but it came with 150 tokens. that's a lot. Nice. Uh Stitch says, "What's your favorite pinball machine of all time? It doesn't have to be from your collection." Um It's a three-way tie and I have all three of them. Uh Twilight Zone, I just [] love it. I just think it is a really good I top to bottom. Um Stargazer, I just I love Stargazer. Everything about Stargazer makes me happy. And then Lord of the Rings. Some like If I could If I could expand, I would probably add Batman 66 and Congo to the list. Congo I do not own, but it is on my list. I want a Congo so bad. You're You're literally picking all of the games that I either have or that I'm hunting for, which is pretty amazing. Yeah, John Trudeau's Congo. Batman, good game. Yeah. Oh Dude, it Some Some bad people were good at making pinball machines, man. You know, bumps. Um All right, back to the fast and fun round. We got four more. Two of these you kind of already answered, but worst game to move up your walk-in apartment. Um It was definitely Twilight Zone and my I have uh two older brothers. My oldest brother is like a giant. He's like a scarely big man. Man. And then my middle brother is a super athlete, but a normal sized human. And so he was helping us move the Twilight Zone. My knee I think was torn at the time, so I was just watching. Sure. And my One of my best friends, his best friend came to help us cuz he had also got a game when I was bringing these games back from Pittsburgh. And it's It was a straight shot up, but it's a full flight of stairs. And I was like, "I paid a guy 100 bucks to bring me his stair-climbing dolly. Like he'll be here in 20 minutes." And my brother and this guy were like, "No, we can just do it." Man. just [laughter] [] it up the stairs and I I was like, "I would have a hernia for the rest of my life." I couldn't even imagine uh and they didn't look like physically well after they did it, but they did do it. Just thinking about this is prolapsing my anus, so like I totally understand. It's It's a real issue. That's crazy. Did you get it Did you make them a drink afterwards at least? Like what do you What do you do after they yellow it? My I think my brother just left. That's That's the other thing you could do, I guess. the other game home. I think they were just like, "All right. Bye." Bye. like, "Oh, okay. Thanks. Yeah, appreciate the help, guys." Amazing. Yeah. All right. Hit me. Well, loudest machine in close quarters, you already answered. It's TNA. Right? TNA. Yeah. TNA is on like volume level two in my home and you can hear it in any other part of my apartment. Yeah, Scott's game has no chill in many many ways. No. [laughter] Um I do sometimes crank Prana Jackpot sweet sack solo. Sometimes you got to crank up Jackpot. Yeah. Um Play Wham while playing Jackpot. That's the like the holy trinity right there. Your clothes just turn into like Marc Silk pajamas. Like you have no choice. [laughter] I mean I'm already playing in Marc Silk pajamas, so yeah. But yeah, you know. That's fair. Uh all right, four your venue. The dream lineup of four games. So this isn't games that you're like, oh these are my favorite games. This is like what do you think would be the best like bar pinball lineup? Like best earners or most appreciated by I'm going to go with most appreciated cuz [] the man. Um I got I think the most hype I've been getting about what I'm putting out is Stars. Everyone is excited to have a Stars on location. But there's a There's a problem in the New York pinball scene that most places have mostly newer games and so everything just takes forever. Right. And so there's this like the people yearn for a simple quick game. Uh It's a good thing Ian's not here cuz Ian from Nudge would be he he hates Stars. He hates it. I I hate it in a tournament situation because like the odds of Stars [] you are much higher than most games. Yeah. Um but I think like top earners like I think a Lord of the Rings would absolutely destroy on location. I think people love the game. It is beloved. My Yeah, mine's over there. And we have like [laughter] the same games. Yeah, it's really it's funny. Uh like I don't even God, dream lineup. Cuz I the games I have are games I like to play. Like I don't own games I don't like. Yes. Look at you pick any four games. Let's go. No, I'm I'm putting my finger up waiting for the games. So Lord of the Rings Stars Stars Lord of the Rings Oh, [] me. And anything that isn't Godzilla. I think people are if I Every time I see a Godzilla now I'm frustrated. So any any Elwin game or just any game that's not Godzilla? I think Jaws would is like actually the best for a location of his games, but it plays too long. And so when we had Jaws there, every round it didn't matter who was on Jaws. It was like 40 minutes. Sure. And so You could pick Sega Sega Godzilla, you know? Yeah. Ooh, I love to pick a Godzilla. Yeah. I My dream is to one day get a Surf 'n Safari for the bar. That's a fun one. That's another kind of like hipster game, but it is really fun. The artwork's great on it. The [] center spinner, yeah. The Every time the game ends and I hear later gator in a very bad fake Jamaican accent, I get joy. Like I get pure the same Every time I see the drummer, this guy the drumming guy from Fishtales Nice. Every time. Every time I laugh and I go whoever did that wasn't paid enough. It's just phenomenal work. I think Surf 'n Safari the ramp on it is like that episode of Seinfeld where Kramer like blocks out one of the lanes, so it's like super wide. Like if you can't hit the ramp on Surf 'n Safari, like you've had too many jamos, you know what I mean? It's it's Yeah, it's I picked it in states and got absolutely dog walked. Like I think I didn't even break a million points and the skill shot's 500,000. Yeah, that's You have to work hard to not get a million points. It was it was like an impressively bad and every game I played on it all weekend leading up leading up to that was like 30 million. So it was just like, okay. But last last fast round question, which is medium fast round. Who's one person in pinball that we should know more about that's not like in the limelight? Um Ooh. He's in the limelight a bit and he just won a circuit event, but local player Alex Kelly. Like amazing player, salt of the earth human, like works in music, like just is an all around great person and like really clutch pinball player. I think I think he's definitely like he's in the limelight fairly I guess because people know him and he's done really well at a bunch of events and stuff, but he he would be my like local unsung hero. I can also like shamelessly shout out my boyfriend for being the only streamer in New York City. Matt Grady, good for you. There you go, too. We got We got a bonus one. What? I said it pains me to be nice to men. [laughter] Okay, cool. The uh All right, so then these are This is like my closing questions and I think this is something that I think is important for everyone that struggles with especially when they're doing it is like as consuming as you have put yourself into pinball, how do you keep excite how do you stay excited about it after what a decade or so or more of committing yourself to pinball both in tournaments and promoting it and all the other ways that you've interacted with the community? Um I I think two things and they're kind of contradictory, but I have been going to like majors pretty much as long as I've been doing competitive pinball and I'm never going to win one. Like I am very aware that like I'm probably never going to qualify for finals in one. Like I am absolutely comfortable with where I am as a skill like level. It's totally fine. And I think going to those events and trying to do your best and being able to be like hey, I got 60th at INDISC. That's cool. I did not by the way. I dream of 60th. But it's like that is a really good way to keep interested. I enjoy watching finals. I enjoy watching a bunch of teenagers destroy games in ways I didn't even know were possible. Like that to me keeps it very exciting. The ability to be like, I'm going to go try to do what he did after this on a game that is not tournament set up. [laughter] Right. Um Hey, Belle won Yegpan. That's he's, you know, fighting it for the old the older people. It's It's the olds. The olds. Danielle won INDISC. Yeah, for sure. He won Yegpan. So it's like Ray Day won PAPA, right? Like well, Zach won the last PAPA, but like it's not the kids anymore. Like the older guys are back in the mix. Get out of here, Z Mac. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's time for the old people to come back. the best one. Z Mac is a sweet baby angel who should be protected at all costs. He is like the most pure and wonderful of the children. We love Z Mac in this house. The pure wonderfulness of the children. I love it. Yeah, he's great. Uh and the other thing I'll say is that I think there's a huge opportunity when you're a woman that plays pinball because BELs or whatever women's league. I know in Seattle it's Babes in Pinland or Portland is Babes in Pinland. I think it's a much easier like entry to be able to make finals in a like women's tournament than versus, you know, the top 50 players in the world in an open tournament. Like the skill Like there are women that dominate. There are the Carries and the Leslies and the Kaylees that are just out there like not giving a [] and winning everything. Uh I'm not one of those, but I think it's nice to be able to just like, you know, I get a trophy in most of the BELs leagues we do. I love a trophy. I have a staircase full of all my trophies. That was com That's coming up as the next Thanks a lot, Kate. You just ruined my next question. What the hell? But to your point though, like winning a local tournament is as gratifying. I like Sure, of course winning a major would be amazing, but like being surrounded by friends and people that, you know, you can actually actively make fun of when you do win way more fun. It is truly like I I I'm a I'm a classics player more than a newer game player. I just retain rules poorly, so like I have gotten quite good at classics and part of that is also that my only skill set is actually that I make the best lap saves. I'm just very good at it. That's good. That's a good skill set for pinball. And it It helps. Um but when I can beat the Dantes or the Alexes on a game and it's more frequently than not on an old game the level of joy. Am I better than them? Absolutely not. Do I get to say it for like 5 minutes though? Yes. And that to me [laughter] feels great. What's the What's the greatest equalizing game? Like one that's just like so difficult that like it doesn't matter whether you're a pro player or a new player. Like everyone's got a chance. It's Stars. I would say Jungle Queen is more of an equalizer than Stars, but I I'm going to probably get [] for this, but I don't get Jungle Queen. I don't get why people like it so much. I think it's boring. Oh man, Shane is never going to want to talk to you, but that's okay. Shane's grumpy. Uh Steve says Stars is the great equalizer, so he agrees with you. Yeah. Cool. Um yeah, it Yeah, it's it's Stars. I Cuz there's just you don't really need to know Stars to be able to just keep the ball alive and you can know Stars and not touch the ball. Like that up spinners and then ripping them is like extremely fun on many older games. Like, you know, Comet does that. Uh it's Flight 2000 if you can really build that up, which is a lot harder. Yeah. Good stuff. Uh Path the Weirdo says he loves getting local trophies. See, but then there's been a whole movement of like makers 3D printing like, you know, Becca prints a bunch of really cool trophies for, you know, Our local our our one of our local We're going to go for a walk. Let's go for a walk. Jeff got a 3D printer and he did these Hello. Hello. Oh. Uh, she did these welcome to my You can look at Tron. Um, and my air mattress on top of Donnie. Sorry. Uh, she Donnie needs to take a nap every once in a while. for our um, Friday the 13th Galentine's Day tournament. Look how freaking cool they are. Yeah, that's great. Is that a bleeding rose? That's fantastic. It is yes, because it was Friday the 13th and I am spooky. Um, this is the dumbest trophy I've ever made. I did a selfie league and so the winners got um, ducks taking selfies. But yeah, we've got a just a bunch of She did these really cool ones for our Bells league and then mine dropped so I have to glue the flipper back on. Um, and Trapple Land, which is the Sunshine owner's newer location, they always do little pinball machines. Oh, that's cute. That are like themed for everything. Yeah, and then I always do medals. So our last one I did, there was a pigeon that lived outside the bar and then he died in the winter and so I did the the pigeon. [laughter] Cuz he was really cute and fat. No comment on that. Yeah. Wait, but you you were at the trophy staircase. We were just about to talk about that. So you have a staircase which goes to some sort of tiny terrifying moment. There's something up there. It's like a Winchester house. So when the house was built, the what is now my apartment was um, like a commercial space, like a storefront, and there was a back entrance to the living quarters up these stairs. Got it. Um, so this was my mom's like home office. She had like a office furniture company uh, when I was a kid and then we could come bother mom from these stairs without having to go to the front door and back. Now you've turned it into like a Home Alone trap. It's And so this is the trophy shelf or the trophy stairs, I guess. There's a lot It's It's grown over the years. I love it. That's amazing. shelf you can have. I fully support putting a staircase in your apartment for no reason. Yeah, for for trophies. It can go someplace. My Christmas tree is still up. Please don't judge me. I It has to go in a closet behind Countdown and I can't move Countdown cuz I hurt my back. Sorry. I didn't say [] I'm totally down for 365 Christmas tree. Ours is neon pink and made of plastic, so it wouldn't No, yeah. You could leave it up. Is yours real? I feel like it's probably pretty crusty at this point. It's It's very fake. It's It's literally my mom gave it to me. It's a metal pipe with like maybe 20 branches of fake Christmas tree and then stuffed with other fake garland and then I just cover it in ornaments. Cool. Though, yeah. Love it. Um, well, that I mean that pretty much wraps it up. I think you and I have talked a little bit about uh, how to recruit people for pinball leagues, especially for women. I mean you had mentioned that like having just going up to people that are playing at location. If you run a pinball league or you're interested in starting one, to just go and approach people and see if they're interested if they're playing at a bar. Would you say that that's the move like for educating or getting more people into pinball leagues? It Yes and no. It's definitely like a person-to-person situation because some people do not want to be approached by strangers. Sure. And some people don't want to go up to strangers. [laughter] Right. And if I see a group of girls playing at Buttermilk, I genuine generally will find a way to be like, "If you think you're having fun while playing pinball right now, even if they're just gorilla flipping and whatever it is, like follow Bells and Chimes NYC on Instagram because, you know, we do a women's pinball thing and anyone can come anytime. It is uh, for better or for worse, like socials really are the best way to get people in. Like I've made so many friends who saw a flyer in a bar or saw a post on Instagram and they started playing in Bells or they started playing in Summer League and just joined the community that way. And I think really it is like more grassroots of like word of mouth. If it's going to show up in my friend's algorithm, it might show up in mine and so I'm very likely to see it and stuff like that. And if you got one person that's cool and into pinball, they probably are going to bring a friend or two in to try to like increase the amount cuz you know, it's nice to go do things with people you know instead of just a bunch of strangers. So I feel like it naturally kind of like propagates. Yeah, and it's it is a something that like you because it is a skill that you can consistently improve on, there's I think a lot of people like the the goal, like the the idea that there is progress to be made. Like I'm going to keep improving on like I just started drop catching against my will like 2 years ago. Like I just I couldn't learn it and then one day I just started doing it and I would panic because I drop catch and then drain. But now I can But it was just one of those things where I was like, "Oh, that was on my list." I mean I feel like pinball really fits in with the modern age of short dopamine rush like instant gratification scenario. Like mobile games? Get out of here. Pinball. You get the same like Right. You get the same thing from it. And it's like I do sometimes wish that they were not so big or expensive. And whenever someone's like, "Oh, I'm thinking about getting pinball machines for my apartment." I'm like, "Don't begin. It does not stop once you start. You keep finding places to put them. I promise you, you will keep finding places to put them." It's true. It's a virus for sure. It's like the pinball Ebola. Um, I I played the smaller uh, Alice in Wonderland. I think Wonderland Amusements is the company and it's just like it just doesn't feel like pinball. There's something about it needing to be a certain scale where it feels like, you know, Safecracker feels like pinball to me. All right, that's a fair argument. And But good enough for Indisc, then I think it's good enough for the people. But I will say there is also I think substantially more actual pinball incorporated into Safecracker than there is into the like mini Alice in Wonderland. Yeah. And like it's like Lyman did the rules, Pat Lawlor made the layout. Like So there's fundamentals there that are already things we like. And they just were like, "We need to I actually wish they made more smaller games because of how many people would be like, 'I would get a pinball machine if I could fit it in my apartment.'" Well, so, you know, Sim13 just said the weight of the ball is so important to the physics. And to your point, you know, Canter Patchen from Chicago, you know, one of his he does like these artistic kind of like pinball machines that have all sorts of weird designs. His is really small. It's like, you know, the playfield itself is maybe like 2 ft by 2 ft, you know, but it's still being played with a regular size ball even though they're shorter flippers. And I think that that to me is a better Like I wouldn't want a full-size pinball machine scaled down with a lighter ball and, you know, different flipper max. Like I would rather full-size ball, but the playfield is smaller just in general so the amount of space you have to work with is just limited. But Though, the American Girl pinball machine of I have one, although one of my flippers is broken. Um, is playable. It is a little ball and a little play You actually it's too steep. The my preferred way to play it is I put it on TNA, but the front feet go on the lock bar and that is like the best angle to play. and 1/2 degrees not the move for American Girl? for American Girl. Okay. But I remember during COVID like everyone got one, people that were like, "Well, I'll have pinball at home." And my friend Jade made a video of her trying to roll She was like playing American Girl until I roll it and she just live streamed it. And when she video, the title was just God help me cuz she was playing so many games just trying to roll it. And I think she eventually did, but it was like there's a little spinner like a a spinning thing that acts as like a pop and kind of Like an or- like an orbiter thing? Like just a spinning piece of like rubber so that it like randomizes the ball motion? Okay, bye. I'm coming back. I'm right here. I live in New York. Don't worry, I can't go far. Um, Isn't that cute? So there's like a little spinning guy in between the pops that kind of knocks the ball around cuz the pops don't actually It's like It's like the thing on orbiter. Yeah. Um, that's my broken flipper as you can see. Um, but like you can actually play the game. That's cool. You know? And I So I get one for everyone I know that has uh, kids because [snorts] it's like, "Here. Uh, here's a really really hard but them-sized thing." But this is the gray area, right? Like when I get see that and I would if I got that, I wouldn't expect it to feel and play like regular pinball. I would feel like it's its own thing because it's so scaled down, right? And I think that the Wonderland Amusements game is like still trying to advertise itself as like the pinball experience. Right, but it's like not quite. But the cost is so so much cheaper that it's like that's a that's strong incentive. Yeah. Safecracker does not use a standard ball. Uh, it has a 1-in ball versus a 1 and 1/4-in ball just to point that out. But I think that you can I had regular balls in mine for a while and I just didn't it felt a little too slow, like a little too But um, but it is Mentioned that earlier. Yeah, San San Antonio missed our previous safe cracker. If If you, with a blind eye, you probably could not tell them apart. Like, you couldn't feel the difference. I think it is like a close enough situation. Yeah. Um And that's it's not even the weight is probably same or very similar. I think it's just smaller simply because some of the shots are shallower. Right. I don't know if Dr. John's still here, but I'm pretty sure he knows what a quarter inch is. Um Hey. guess my closing question here if you were going to put one of these three classic games in your lineup and you had to commit to one of them, which of these three would it be? Or the Raven. The third one's Raven. Raven gets a little too much hate. It's not it's it's just bad, but it's not like offensively terrible. Like, I think the worst game I've actually ever played is The Jeffersons. Oh, wow. Really? Okay. Interesting. do anything. There's like a ramp and there's some noises and none of the noises are from the show cuz they didn't actually end up getting the rights or something. I played it like once and I was like, "I'm actually all set." You're [laughter] like, "I'm good here. We've had enough. I have nothing left. We're done here." The The I believe Spooky built the games. The quality of the build was totally fine. Like, it felt like pinball, but I would be like, "I've hit the ball." And it did nothing cuz there's nothing here. That's savage. I need to I'm not going to say who it is, but I'm I want to look up who who designed that. Uh is it It's like a one-off, I think. [snorts] It's a it's a it's a duo. It's a brother duo. Uh unfortunate. That's savage. To say that the Jetsons is worse than Raven. You know, Raven's a a Trudeau game, too. Shocks to my core. I know, right? What? [laughter] Yeah. I like Ghostbusters. I got a lot of hate for it, but I I love Ghostbusters. I own a Ghostbusters. I love Ghostbusters. Stupid. I think the layout's [] evil, but I love that damn game. Every time I drain out the left toe, I'm just I'm thrilled he's in prison. Like, every single time it just [laughter] bounces out, just couldn't have happened to a better guy. I think he I think he's out now. Yeah. I think it's coming. I think it's late this year. So, which pinball company's going to pick him up, you think? [laughter] Deeproot. Oh. But, they're all done. Papa don't doesn't have any money. He's too busy being sued. Yeah. Uh Domino's pinball Oh, no. Is that No, PBR is is Woah Nelly. Yeah. The Woah Nelly, Primus, whatever. Those things four of them, I think, right? Four skins for it. That game is garbage. Why would you put that much real estate dedicated to pop up Like, it's just such a uninspired layout. I I think it's the same issue I had with like the Spider-Man home game {slash} Supreme of like, if the game was $1,500, it absolutely as much game as I would want in something kind of low level. Sure. I agree. they're like five grand, I'm like Okay, well, but for five grand, I can get Who Stars. Yeah. I You could get For five grand, you could pretty much get any early mid-90s like DMD game for the most part. Except for like Twilight Zone and stuff. Yeah, there there's like a handful of that like WPC holy grail era, but for the most part five grand will get you an actual game. Yeah. You could get like your Johnny Mnemonic is going to be what? Like four grand or something like that. I'd rather have a Johnny Mnemonic than any of that other. I think I got Johnny for like 32. That's great. someone had posted it for sale. Someone said they were going to get it and then I messaged the guy like five minutes after and he was like, "Yeah, for some reason he doesn't come pick it up tomorrow, I guess you can come get it on Friday." And Friday morning he was like, "The guy bailed, you want it?" And I called my friend David who lived like two hours from the guy and I was like, "I need you to go get a Johnny Mnemonic right now." [laughter] So. Yeah. Can I Can I admit something to you again? I bought a Raven. Sure. And Karl DeAngelo picked it up for me because it was like like a block and a half from his house. Not quite, but close enough. He went facilitated the deal and it has been stuck prisoner at his place. So, technically Carl has a Raven right now and should be lambasted for that. I'm just saying. the moment we hang up, I will ask him why he never told me his favorite game was Raven. Yeah. You should. Also, going to that question of who does not get enough spotlight or ever, Carl gets plenty of spotlight because he is like amazing at everything he does when it comes to pinball. But, Carl is one of the best people on the planet and if anyone's ever mean to Carl, just know that I will personally hunt you down. Carl is the greatest sweetheart. I guess they were having I guess there was some competition to on the internet talking about whether Bill Sedo or Carl was like a nicer human being because they're both like just like quality humans. Yeah. So. I It's one of those like when you get to meet like certain people that are just so nice and like give so much to a community that you're a part of the the true moment of friendship for me cuz again, certified hater, is when you'll be like, "Man, to be honest with you, I think this person kind of sucks." And then after years of friendship, they go, "I also think that person kind of sucks." And you're like, "We've done it. We're friends now." Now we're Yeah. Yeah. Broke bread over it. [laughter] Yeah. Uh Stern's dad said, "Do I know about Stern's Escape from the Multiverse?" I don't. But, there's a rumor that crypto bros paid them like a million dollars to make like one game. Is this true? But, that I don't I've never even heard it. I do I will say to comment on the Blues Brothers thing. I played Blues Brothers, Dr. John's Blues Brothers, when I was in Australia. It is basically just Stars, but the left spinner is kind of a little jump ramp that comes back to the right. This is a home pin game, right? Yeah. And Yeah, I know. there's a saucer that you're supposed to hit to start modes that's just in an impossible spot. If that saucer moved up a quarter of an inch actually not bad. I definitely still had more fun playing Blues Brothers than I did playing Jetsons. Wow. So. Dude, damn. Bug, if you're watching this, man, I'm so sorry. [laughter] To say that a home pin game is better than [laughter and gasps] Oh, wow. But, at the time when Jetsons was made, I think it was basically their version of home pin, but I don't think like I think Spooky just did the build, someone else did the design. Sure, but they've done that with a few other games. I mean, they did that with TNA. Right, but it's it's not their responsibility if the game is bad if they're just tasked with putting it together. True. the delivery guy's fault if the meal shows up and it's bad, right? That's very true. That's true. Unless he's done something to the food, then, you know. If there's poop in my food Like, let's just let's paint this picture, right? If I'm ordering a pizza, right? We're in Brooklyn. I get a pizza delivered. I got this delicious big pizza, right? But, there's like a big little pile like a mound of poo in the middle. And the pizza tastes bad cuz there's poo in it. Right? Oh, that's a that's a thought that's going to fester. Yeah. You should let that I don't really want to have this information. Let seep in. Just think about poo on a pizza. That's really it. It's simple. There's pizza in my fridge right now. Is there poo on it? barbecue. Sorry. No. No, it That's a good pizza. See? Yeah. Who free kitchen. High standards over here. [laughter] I see that we're rolling with extremely high high standards. Um all right. That we're almost at two hours. No one's going to watch this cuz it's so long now, but I appreciate No, are you kidding me? This has been great. Thank you so much for sharing your Yeah. We just Yeah. This has been the most I had an agenda and instead of that, we just talked about pinball and honestly, I'm so cool with that. It's all good. Um thank you for your time. I know we didn't really plug Scorebit, which you do also work with. I did want to mention them just cuz Yeah. Um let's do that real quick. We talked about potentially putting that You said you might or are potentially putting the Scorebit system into the games that you will have at uh Buttermilk. Uh there's a a a fine line with an old school bar owner and the idea of accepting digital money. So, I'm trying to but I'm going to put them in at the bare minimum for the leaderboards because I want a unified leaderboard and I do not own any Spike 2s and if I did, it would just be one Spike 2. So, I can have everything on a leaderboard. Hard to do Hard to do with classics and easy to do with Scorebit. So. Um and I I am the least tech-savvy person, especially when it comes to anything that involves boards, and I can install a Scoretron. So. like four screws, you're done. Mount it, you're good to go. Yeah. I'm I I would find a way, though. I promise. I would find a way to do it incorrectly if it were there. [laughter] Um but, yeah. So, that's that's We're We're going We launched our tournament stuff. Everything's pretty great. You can pay with your phone now when you play pinball if they have Scorebit in it. Match play integration, stuff's really cool. Which is neat. It's nice to tap for people that don't want to carry around quarters or deal with tokens or any of that stuff, so. Um Yeah, Steve, thank you. I'm glad you caught it live, too. Thank you to everyone who showed up and uh is hanging out. Or if you're watching this on VOD later, uh you know, go check out Kate. Please plug anything that you would like to about upcoming events, uh, the bar. I don't know. What you got? Um, the only super big thing I have coming up is that the same weekend as Pinburgh is Whipped, uh, super big women's tournament that I founded when I was way too dumb to actually think I could run a tournament. Now I I know what it takes. Um, and I think there's still a few tickets left for that and it's Juicy Woppers and Juicy Money and like a pretty It's like a mini version of Pinburgh if you've never done it and it's like just like pinball boot camp. You grind out games in a day, but it's um, really great and I'm really proud of it. So if you haven't gotten a ticket, I think there's still a few left uh, and you should do that. That's all. That's That's my only real plug I think left. There you go. Amazing. Yeah. All right, well, this what we do. We go, we raid. Kate, stick around just so I can say thank you and all that post interview follow up crap. Um, otherwise, let's go see who's streaming some stuff and drop a bunch of people on it. All praise the great pyramid, you know, the god of pinball. Kate. Do I do it? Okay. Yeah, do you? I don't know. Pretty good. That's a nice even pyramid. Nice. Uh, thank you. So, yeah, let's go see what we got. In the meantime, have a great day everybody. Cheers. Okay. Thanks, John. Praise the great pyramid. [music] Does your life lack purpose? Have you wondered if there's anything more? [music] Join the cult of pinball. The great pyramid accepts [music] all into the cult of the great order. I'm Dr. Cornelius Pincklestein, [music] interpreter and acolyte of the great pyramid. Join us. I'm an alien. _(Acquisition: youtube_auto_sub, Enrichment: v5)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-06-06 | Item ID: cc6ba049-1630-4e73-b156-28ac84d5800d*