# EP 3 - JAWS 50th Anniversary Pinball

**Source:** Flip n Out Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2025-07-03  
**Duration:** 33m 28s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://flipnoutpinballpodcast.com/ep-3-jaws-50th-anniversary-pinball

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## Analysis

Ken Cromwell and Greg Bone discuss Stern Pinball's newly released Jaws 50th Anniversary Premium edition, analyzing its upgraded features including blood-red powder coat, brass wire forms, glitter-infused playfield, and updated artwork. They debate the merits of anniversary editions, explore hypothetical multi-tier strategies (Super LE concept), and discuss trade-in options for existing Jaws owners.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Jaws 50th Anniversary is limited to 2025 production only with possibly one additional run depending on sales — _George Gomez stated they will only be producing these games this year; one run currently underway, possibly a second by year-end_
- [MEDIUM] Jaws is shaping up to be one of Stern's most popular titles ever — _Greg: 'Jaws is literally shaping up to be one of their most popular titles ever' - based on stock turnover and customer demand_
- [HIGH] The 50th Anniversary version has glitter-infused playfield similar to Jersey Jack's collector edition approach — _Greg noted the glitter effect and compared it to JJP collector editions_
- [HIGH] Premium Jaws artwork was significantly improved on the 50th Anniversary edition compared to original premium — _Ken: 'I thought the premium artwork was atrocious on the original premium'; Greg agrees the 50th art package is a major upgrade_
- [HIGH] The blood-red powder coat creates patriotic red/white/blue aesthetic and Fourth of July timing — _Hosts discussed how the bright red powder coat against blue playfield creates stark Americana vibes coinciding with July 2 release_
- [HIGH] Jaws is available only in Premium tier for 50th Anniversary, not as Pro or LE variant — _'They're sticking with the premium. They're not doing an LE. They're not doing that thing.'_
- [MEDIUM] Pro buyers should consider upgrading to Premium for upper playfield and submarine toy mechanics — _Ken advocacy: 'you need a premium on Jaws' due to upper playfield and submarine mechanics_
- [MEDIUM] Batman 66 Super LE had an application process limiting it to approximately 88 units with selective buyer eligibility — _Greg references Batman 66 requiring application to determine eligibility; Ken asks about exact number_

### Notable Quotes

> "I was kind of taken by surprise um i was taken by surprise as well man not to not to over speak but go ahead go ahead and i want to see if what you're surprised by is aligned by what i'm surprised by because there's there's some positives here and there's some things that aren't calling to me specifically"
> — **Greg Bone**, ~2:30-3:10
> _Sets up the nuanced discussion of unexpected premium features on anniversary edition_

> "I did not expect powder coat i didn't expect the wire forms to be brassed um i didn't expect the play field to have the glitter i expected none of that"
> — **Greg Bone**, ~4:15
> _Key revelation that 50th Anniversary includes substantial cosmetic upgrades beyond expected art update_

> "That sparkle-infused, or I should say that glitter-infused play field, I think is where this game potentially could shine. I see that being potentially more impactful than actually having the brass wire forms."
> — **Greg Bone**, ~11:30
> _Identifies glitter playfield as the most visually impactful upgrade on the 50th Anniversary edition_

> "I think part of pinball ownership is the fun of knowing that you have something that's new, something that other people are looking for. It's kind of competitive."
> — **Ken Cromwell**, ~21:15
> _Articulates the psychological and competitive appeal of being first to adopt new releases_

> "I don't like looking at pinball machines as investments anymore. I think there was a time that we had maybe, you know, I don't know, eight or nine years ago where you could get a game, legitimately play it for six months and sell it for what you had into it. And in some circumstances, you could even make a little bit of money. And that was fun to do. That's not the reality right now."
> — **Ken Cromwell**, ~33:45
> _Comments on market shift away from pinball machines as viable investment vehicles; depreciation concern_

> "You have to make the separation between LE and Super LE very distinguishable and make people feel like they're getting their bang for their buck, like you said, not just because of the scarcity of it, but just you have to still give them something."
> — **Greg Bone**, ~31:20
> _Addresses the challenge of creating value beyond scarcity in multi-tier strategy_

> "I think that starts to change things a little too much for people. And I think that you get into a really kind of gray area there to where you do start to upset people."
> — **Ken Cromwell**, ~42:30
> _On exclusive code in Super LE tier—warns against fragmenting player base_

> "When you were at 250 and then 500 and a thousand, you know, that, that did make it scarce, but they were also leaving money on the table as a business."
> — **Greg Bone**, ~45:15
> _Business perspective: Stern's decision to increase LE production quantities reflected revenue maximization over scarcity_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Stern Pinball | company | Manufacturer releasing Jaws 50th Anniversary Premium edition on July 2, 2025 |
| Jaws (Stern Pinball) | game | Hot-selling Stern title with 50th Anniversary Premium variant featuring upgraded cosmetics; designed by Keith Elwin |
| Ken Cromwell | person | Co-host of Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast; pinball sales/distributor rep; discusses market strategy and collector psychology |
| Greg Bone | person | Co-host of Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast; analyzes game features, cosmetics, and upgrade value propositions |
| George Gomez | person | Stern Pinball leadership; confirmed 50th Anniversary production limited to 2025 with one current run, possibly second by year-end |
| Keith Elwin | person | Legendary pinball designer; designed Jaws playfield layout and mechanics |
| Zach Manny | person | Pinball community figure; advocate for black-and-white Jaws 50th Anniversary concept (mentioned speculation, hosts defer to his arguments) |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Competitor manufacturer with collector edition approach featuring glitter playfields that Stern 50th Anniversary mirrors |
| Flippin' Out Pinball | company | Retailer/distributor owned by Ken Cromwell and Greg Bone; stocks and pre-orders Stern games including Jaws 50th Anniversary |
| Batman 66 (Super LE) | game | Historical reference for limited Super LE tier: 88 units, required application process for buyer eligibility |
| Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary | game | Prior anniversary edition with mirrored back glass; perceived lukewarm reception compared to subsequent strategy |
| Godzilla Anniversary Edition | game | Prior anniversary Premium with black-and-white aesthetic; sold well based on aesthetic preference of buyers |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Competitor manufacturer noted for vibrant design philosophy contrasting with muted color palettes |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Jaws 50th Anniversary Premium features and cosmetics, Anniversary edition strategy and market reception, Multi-tier pricing model (Pro/Premium/LE/Super LE) exploration, Playfield cosmetic upgrades (powder coat, brass, glitter)
- **Secondary:** Trade-in value and secondary market pricing for Jaws variants, Collector psychology and FOMO in limited edition releases, Pinball depreciation and resale value expectations, Jaws design quality and gameplay mechanics evaluation

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.78) — Hosts express genuine enthusiasm for Jaws 50th Anniversary upgrades and anniversary edition strategy. Some minor reservations about blood-red powder coat aesthetic (too Americana-heavy), but overall positive reception of glitter playfield and art improvements. Constructive discussion of multi-tier strategy without rancor. Balanced tone emphasizing subjective preference.

### Signals

- **[sentiment_shift]** Mixed sentiment on blood-red powder coat: patriotic Fourth of July aesthetic vs. potential visual clash with blue playfield; 'Baywatch' aesthetic comparison suggests divisive colorway (confidence: medium) — Greg on Baywatch vibes from brass/powder coat combo; acknowledgment that color is subjective ('teach their own')
- **[competitive_signal]** Jaws 50th Anniversary positioned as premium collector item with enhanced cosmetics (powder coat, brass, glitter) but same gameplay as standard Premium, emphasizing aesthetic differentiation (confidence: high) — Blood-red powder coat, brass wire forms, glitter playfield, updated translight artwork; identical Keith Elwin layout to base Premium
- **[design_philosophy]** Anniversary edition design philosophy: cosmetic upgrades only (powder coat, brass, glitter, art) without gameplay changes, to avoid fragmenting player base or creating exclusive features (confidence: medium) — No mention of code exclusives; Ken opposes exclusive code: 'I think that starts to change things a little too much for people'; hosts discuss topper risks
- **[market_signal]** Stern constraining anniversary edition production to single calendar year (2025) to create time-limited FOMO narrative and scarcity (confidence: high) — George Gomez: 'we're going to be producing them this year it only makes sense it's an anniversary edition this is the anniversary year so we are only going to be making these games this year'
- **[market_signal]** Jaws is high-velocity inventory: Flippin' Out Pinball nearly sold out, restocked to meet demand; positioned as one of Stern's most popular titles ever (confidence: high) — Greg: 'we were almost sold out and we just ordered a bunch more'; 'Jaws is literally shaping up to be one of their most popular titles ever'
- **[market_signal]** Multi-tier pricing model tension: LE production scaling (250→500→1000 units) reduced scarcity/resale value, yet Premium-tier anniversary editions create inventory complexity without gameplay changes (confidence: medium) — Greg: 'When you were at 250 and then 500 and a thousand... they were also leaving money on the table as a business'; Ken: depreciation concerns make investment model unrealistic
- **[announcement]** Stern Pinball officially releases Jaws 50th Anniversary Premium edition July 2, 2025 with limited 2025-only production window (confidence: high) — Ken: 'Stern pinball today with this being july 2nd of 2025 has released the 50th anniversary jaws pinball machine'; George Gomez confirmed one run now, possibly second by year-end
- **[product_strategy]** Pro tier upgrade recommendation: Stern/retailers positioning Premium Jaws as mandatory for upper playfield and submarine toy mechanics, creating tier-specific value propositions (confidence: high) — Ken: 'I would personally like to see lesser limited editions being made... on Jaws... you need a premium... The upper play field... adds a ton to the game'
- **[rumor_hype]** Speculation about hypothetical multi-tier strategy with Super LE ($17.5k-$20k at 100 units); no confirmation from manufacturer but hosts discuss business logic and risk/reward (confidence: low) — Hosts explore 'what if' scenarios: chrome, custom lighting, exclusive toppers, moving buoys; acknowledge Batman 66 Super LE precedent but note scarcity/eligibility challenges
- **[business_signal]** Flippin' Out Pinball offering trade-in evaluation for existing Jaws Pro owners toward 50th Anniversary Premium upgrade; used inventory rotation on Facebook reinforces affordability messaging (confidence: high) — Ken: 'if you do have that pro and you're looking to get into the premium model... call us up trade it in'; used games priced fairly on Facebook marketplace

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## Transcript

 Hey, what's going on, Pinball Land? Welcome to episode three, that is zero three of the Flip N Out Pinball Podcast. My name's Ken Cromwell. With me today, Greg Bone. Greg, another episode. We've got more stuff happening in the world of pinball. More stuff. We always, we told you guys when we started this that we are coming at you strong, we're coming at you hot and we're bringing you the latest and the greatest from all the manufacturers i kind of thought we were just going to be coming at this about every other week but it seems like this is maybe the third episode in about two and a half weeks so it is what it is the news is is coming we've got another release stern pinball today with this being july 2nd of 2025 has released the 50th anniversary jaws pinball machine i would really love to kind of get some feedback from you in regards to this this new package that they put together for this 50th anniversary 3 edition? Oh, dude. So first of all, just start off. I mean, Jaws is a phenomenal game. You know, we just got a bunch more in stock. Like we I mean, we were almost sold out and we just ordered a bunch more because we're always just we always try to keep everything in stock regardless. You know, we can sometimes that doesn't happen because things are a little hotter than what we think. But Jaws is really hot. I mean, we even got in some people. Hey, listen, some people out there are going to disagree. They're going to yell at me. They're gonna get mad but some people hail jaws as being better than godzilla and in some extent i don't i don't disagree really um but you know focusing on this 50th dude i was kind of taken by surprise um i was taken by surprise as well man not to not to over speak but go ahead go ahead and i want to see if what you're surprised by is aligned by what i'm surprised by because there's there's some positives here and there's some things that aren't calling to me specifically but you know that's the great thing about pinballs it's very subjective yes and you know so we've we've seen some of these anniversary editions before um you know most notably you know we had an elvira 40th at one point back in the day uh you know we we ended up with the jurassic park uh 30th anniversary edition there that was more of an le you had the mirrored back glass all of that good stuff that came with it and you know it seemed like people were maybe not that happy with it so then you know when they came out with godzilla it was a premium and it was black and white so you know it set itself apart you know you're wanting to release an anniversary you you set it apart so it was kind of like coming into this it was it was well what's stern gonna do to set you know jurassic park 50th apart well you know i'm glad they i'm glad they didn't go with the black and white approach because i don't know that that would have been applicable here but yeah for sure i think it was ridiculous like you know there was some talk about that and there was some stuff that that was floating around uh and it just didn't fit you know some of the other stuff you know even blood red kiss edition with elvira you can say okay the black and white works because it's a lot of the old b-list movies obviously godzilla you can sit there and say hey black and white works uh this game though i mean it just it wasn't the era now i i know 100 that that zach uh zach many is just gonna go freaking crazy on this because he was a huge advocate for it i'll let him put his argument on the pinball show with him and dennis i'll let them battle that out so i'm not gonna get into uh why he thinks that's a good idea and his defense over he want to go black and white on uh on joe yeah yeah he wanted it black and white yeah he was an advocate for black and white and he wanted like the pops and splashes of red in there uh and again i'm not gonna talk for him I'm going to let him do his own thing because that's not a battle I want to get into. But I agree with you, Ken. I think the black and white would have been a bad idea. But, you know, that being said, I didn't know what to expect. I just thought, okay, it's basically going to be some new art on there, you know, definitely Translight art. They're sticking with the premium. They're not doing an LE. They're not doing that thing. so when they said that i just i literally just expected art new art package on there with you know obviously a 50th anniversary logo something but i did not expect powder coat i didn't expect the wire forms to be brassed um i didn't expect the play field to have the glitter i expected none of that so maybe we should just recap exactly what is involved as far as we know what we what the information has been relate to us right you've got that kind of the blood red uh powder coat for the lack of a better term you do have a glitter play field which is i would assume similar to that sparkle effect that jjp has on their collector edition playfields you do have a different exterior cabinet artwork that's on there you've got the brass you have the brass wire forms that are there what else am i missing on this oh that you know what the jaws the jaws 50th anniversary uh holographic logo that's yeah that's up on the left side yep and that's what i mean i mean you know i think i think it's nice i i think that that you know if you're going to do something like this you you have to obviously separate it you have to to make it unique in a sense um for your buyers i i don't know i don't know how wild i am about it per se i mean i i love i love the upgraded art i thought i thought the premium artwork was atrocious on the the original premium i just yeah i know you're not you're not a big fan of that premium uh artwork and i bought it because i loved it i mean it's a great bang for your buck so i still bought it and i mean when i say it i was kind of harsh there atrocious is a little bit of a i mean it's a little strong because i still had it in my game room and i still loved it it was fine but uh when you've got the the pro with the the beautiful like movie poster uh artwork the same thing you know mirrored back glass on the the ellie that has that same beautiful you know jaws coming up out of the water at the swimmer that sort of thing right the the premium was just so removed from either one of those so i'm i'm kind of glad to get that art package on this i really like it uh yeah i mean looking at the cabinet you have that iconic scene that you're used to seeing on the movie posters and anything that has strong branding for jaws is the shark coming up underneath the female swimmer you have that on the left side of the cabinet you have it on the right side of the cabinet you also have it on the uh the trans light yes which is within the backbox so you're seeing that iconic image three different times i guess you're not looking at it you can't see all three sides at the same time yeah yeah so it doesn't bother me that it was repeated at all um i'm just glad that they updated the artwork on it i really am my my only thing is like i'm just i'm i'm i like powder coat i just don't know if i'm particularly wild about bright red powder coat on this game with so much blue uh it's very very strong america vibes it's a it's a very Zac Stark contrast like you're you're going to notice this game it pops and just like you said you've got that patriotic red white and blue uh kind of going for you at this point yeah and it obviously hits the fourth of july theme you know what i'm saying it hits the fourth that's a good point so it's it absolutely is very flaggy yes yes and again you know like we we talked many times uh you know it's it powder coat color and everything is no different than artwork on a game it's so subjective i mean you know i had a judge dread that had this i don't even know what color you would even say it was like a metallic flake yellow powder coat but it was like a deeper yellow powder coat most would be turned off by it i loved it um so you know again it's teach their own i can't say i'm super wild about it maybe it grows on me uh but again i'm i'm ecstatic that there was an art change on it yeah i mean there's definitely enough of a change here where you can see that there's there's a massive difference from a visual standpoint when you look up to the cabinet they don't they don't really even look like the same game in in my opinion exterior wise no you're the one thing that drew my attention i shouldn't say the one thing but one of the things that drew my attention with the play field was uh was me getting a like a baywatch vibe and i couldn't figure out why it was because you know i love But it it it the brass It the brass wire forms And and I trying to figure out for myself if I if I am a big fan of that brass because you know it an upgrade right Yes You going from a regular steel wire form to a brass wire form How it looks in contrast with the play field it going to be easier to see in person But I did get a little bit of a Baywatch vibe. And, again, loving me some Baywatch. Oh, yeah, I love me some Baywatch, too. It's one of my favorite games, so I'm not mad at it at all. But, you know, I'm like. And that's just from an aesthetic standpoint, to be clear. Nothing with the layout or anything like that because it's an identical layout. It's a Keith Elwin layout, and the game shoots well. From the time I had on it, I enjoyed playing it. But that sparkle-infused, or I should say that glitter-infused play field, I think is where this game potentially could shine. I see that being potentially more impactful than actually having the brass wire forms. And, again, if it's tastefully done, that's where you have something that is truly special in a play field arpac. Yeah, I agree. and you know i think that that i think it's always a toss-up i think some people you know or maybe put off slightly by some of these anniversary additions but i i dude i think it's a cool thing i i enjoy seeing them roll out i think it's a good thing uh business-wise to do i think if you've got a little bit of a lull in in your manufacturing or something you're keeping people working you're able to you know push this game out you're giving somebody something different especially like why would you not do it on one of your most popular titles because jaws is literally shaping up to be one of their most popular titles ever which you know most elwyn games kind of have that effect but i mean it's like why why why would you not you know i was excited those jurassic park sold well the godzilla sold well and you know godzilla kind of came down to that same thing you know when customers were calling in or writing us talking about buying a game it just came down to aesthetics you know it was like okay i like this some people like the black and white some people didn't and some people were kind of on the fence like man you know i really like that black and white but that artwork is so beautiful on the regular color and you know i think that that's what this game is going to to come down to is it's just going to be a whatever you prefer it is a nice little upgrade for a lot of people like again i was surprised that stern put a little bit more into it for roughly the same you know same cost as what a normal premium is so i don't think you can go wrong either way you know and we're you know we've got a few of them in stock i think they're going to go quick uh as you know george gomez had mentioned ken you know they said hey we're going to be producing them this year it only makes sense it's an anniversary edition this is the anniversary year so we are only going to be making these games this year we've got one run right now maybe a second run by the end of the year depending on how they sell i guess so you know get in there and get it while you can because you know if you are on the fence i hate to even say this but you know it's better to pull the trigger than miss out yeah i would agree you want to get in on the first run if you can at least you've assured yourself that you're going to have something um if you're wanting to place an order obviously you can still do that while you're listening to the podcast you can go to flipping out pinball.com flip letter n out pinball.com and you can place the order today you can hit us up directly too right greg greg at flipping out pinball.com or ken at flipping out pinball.com and we can help you out and answer any questions and get your order in the queue and uh what's the timeline for delivery on something like this um i'm assuming i think they're on the line they should be shipping to us uh i would assume maybe sometime next week if not after that two weeks typically one to two week time frame on there so yeah so you've got a very quick turnaround time yeah oh yeah stern does um you know they're notorious for that so that's always a good thing but if i had to guess i would say roughly a two week two week time span i'm looking at both of these games and i'm looking at both premium versions because that's what's released right now and i'm trying to think if i have that original premium version is there enough there on this 50th anniversary version for me to feel as if i missed an opportunity and i guess that's going to go back to me just kind of getting your feedback do you think that these anniversary editions are a good idea when you consider the original buyers of of the original um tiers of these games or the like the premium buyer do they do they feel like ah man i should have just kind of held out a little bit because i want to get that anniversary edition or i mean do you think it's just kind of a moot point oh i think i mean i just think it comes down to the individual i mean it comes down to kind of just what we were discussing about you know just subject you know the art and the powder coat color and everything being you know subjective on that i think it just comes down to i think some people might be like oh man dude i hate this like i really wish i would have got this one i think it's gorgeous then i think some people are going to go okay i'm happy with mine um not enough of change or just not my cup of tea no and i would agree with you the thing that i i think what a lot of people have to realize is that whenever you are the first to adopt something, and let's say that's a premium Jaws, you've had the benefit of playing that game from the beginning for a long time. And I think part of pinball ownership is the fun of knowing that you have something that's new, something that other people are looking for. It's kind of competitive. It's like, hey, I just got this new game that came out. So when another version of a game comes out, assuming it doesn't change the geometry or the layout or have some tremendously amazing add-ons that you feel slighted about, you I don't think there's any harm in doing the anniversary editions where you want to make sure, in my opinion, that you don't paint yourself into a corner where people are now going to be waiting for that anniversary edition. But the thing is this. If you wait, you're not playing. And if you want it in your home, you just enjoy it. And just as you said before, if you wanted to sell your older premium for the new premium, you can do that. Again, I don't see the harm with it. As long as they're doing it tastefully and they're doing it, and this is for all companies, anybody that's rebooting games. This is one thing that I will say and that I will recommend. I think this is a good opportunity for pro buyers to upgrade because I am still a huge advocate on this game that you need a premium on Jaws. The upper play field, while you're not up there a lot, is still fun to shoot. It adds a ton to the game. the you know jaws coming out of the underneath the play field while he doesn't eat the ball which we're all done discussing it's still fantastic to shoot and to do it just it feels better hitting that captive ball in that boat him coming out hitting him i just i feel like it's definitely worth an upgrade from a pro to a premium so you know if you guys got a pro out there and you're sitting here saying man i actually really like this definitely consider that upgrade yeah and if you do have that pro and you're looking to get into the premium model even this 50th anniversary premium and you have a pro jaws you know call us up trade it in we'll give you some credit towards the new game and get uh this new game shipped out to you quick and we'll make it an easy process to get that old game uh you know brought back into us at flipping out pinball yeah yeah yeah hit us up bank we'll get you an evaluation and also you know if if it ends up being just outside of your budget uh on on either of these premiums our used inventory is always turning over. If this is just a hair outside of your zone for your budget or anything, always keep a look on our Facebook page. That's where all of our used inventory and games get posted. We've always got a constant revolving door of used games and a lot of those times, we've got Jaws in there, Pros and Premiums in there. And I'll say this, a lot of the comments that I've actually heard from people that are looking through the used catalog that we have on the Facebook page is that the deals are more than fair. I mean, those price those games are priced oh they're 100 are yeah for sure i mean if you're looking for a good deal even if you're looking for a combo like a bundle deal uh definitely check that out let me throw this one out you can like because i've kind of been thinking about this and discussing it a little bit when stern releases a game like this let's just say you know a hot title like jaw something that you know major pop culture major nostalgia that sort of thing so minus the anniversary editions or so forth that could come out what do you like what do you think about you got your pro your premium and your le what's your thoughts on them going back and doing something like batman 66 on some of these titles and doing that super le again so would that be adding a fourth tier are you still talking about like a signature game where it's just like a signature and a limited edition premium or how many tiers I would say fourth tier I would still say fourth tier on it Only because you still going to want your pro for a lot of locations Premium is still that nice entry level LEs, you still got, you know, still want LE buyers. You got the nice powder coat. But, you know, you add something real special on that super LE. Yeah, and this is something that. Or do you do away with LE? I mean, you tell me, like, tell me your thoughts on that too. Well, I mean, there's pros and cons to everything, right? So from a marketing perspective, in my opinion, it's like if you're going to have an A-plus license, right? And Jaws is an A-license. I mean, it's iconic. People are asking for it. And that's the key. It's community asking for a theme or that's where you get your A-plus licenses from. Your LE buyer for Stern or your collector edition buyer for Jersey Jack Pinball, a lot of those buyers are buying that tier because they do want the best. And what happens is when you implement something that's higher than that, you're usually going to lower the quantity. And that can work to your advantage or it can work to your disadvantage, in my opinion. And what I mean by that is if I'm still the person that wants that the best of the best, but say there's only 100 of these available, well, great. I'm super happy that I got one because I still am on that upper echelon of games, the top tier. but if I'm the same person and I don't get a chance to get that top tier game because it's limited to 100, do I now feel as the Ellie buyer just citing Stern that I'm getting the second best? And how does that play in my psyche? Does that make me more hesitant because I wasn't able to get the best and I don't want the second best or at the end of the day, do I just bite the bullet and say, well, it was all that was available. And that's where it's kind of a delicate balance. now those upper tier um those upper tier games signature series per se are always going to have the highest resale value they're always going to have the highest collectability um but then you have to ask yourself at what cost what's the fallout to that for the residual for the rest what if you lower what what let's just let's keep it at the four tier scenario right now so what if you limit the le's back down again your normal le's to 500 and then let's say like what you said you've got uh super le at 100 and that's a 20 000 25 000 game on there do you still think that pricing something you know because i mean we've seen some games go fairly high you know on that i mean and maybe i'm going too high maybe 15 000 i think at 15 000 only 100 units that's too cheap i think i think you know you could be at 20 000 for 100 games limited especially from stern i think those would sell so being that high of a price point do you not still think that the le's at their current price would still easily sell out 500 and people wouldn't feel that bad just because the price point but you still you're still satisfying that uber ultra high collector like you said with that super le i well i think you're you're satisfying to a certain extent that le collector if you drop those games down to the 500 uh quantity range you know the benefit of having more le's available that more people get to have the best tier of their favorite game or of a license and and and that's there's something to be said for that and when you start introducing a fourth tier and you start limiting it yeah for sure i think if you're going to have a twenty thousand dollar game that a hundred units on an a plus license uh you're gonna you're gonna sell them you're gonna have to have something that that presents the value proposition for it though you're not just going to be able to just based on scarcity i don't think you move a hundred units because we've seen something similar to that happen in the past, and you saw those games depreciate, I think, pretty substantially. You have to make the separation between LE and Super LE very distinguishable and make people feel like they're getting their bang for their buck, like you said, not just because of the scarcity of it, but just you have to still give them something. I need everything gold-plated, including the coin door and the leg levelers. It all has to be high-end at that point, and you can still do something like that without getting crushed by your bill of materials. But, you know, and again, I would personally like to see lesser limited editions being made for those people that truly want something collectible and maybe down the road want some type of a return on investment. For me, I don't like looking at pinball machines as investments anymore. I think there was a time that we had maybe, you know, I don't know, eight or nine years ago where you could get a game, legitimately play it for six months and sell it for what you had into it. And in some circumstances, you could even make a little bit of money. And that was fun to do. That's not the reality right now. So I understand that you don't want to buy a game and have to take the impact of depreciation. But you also have to look at what kind of enjoyment you're getting out of a game. and what is fun worth? Now, I mean, nobody wants to buy a game and have it worth less than half when it comes to try to resale or turn it in. I understand that, but you gotta be a little bit realistic too on what the expectations are. Again, going back to my original point, limiting the limited editions probably helps with resale value and collectability. And if you have a top tier game that's over that LE and it is at $20,000, you're gonna have to give me something that's pretty outstanding for me to wanna bite the bullet. um it's a delicate balance there's there's a lot of things in play and and i think some market strategy and and trial and error is probably what would uh you know well and i won't say you're you're not wrong but but what if what if they kept the le's at a thousand units on the le's because and the only reason i'm saying that is because i i don't blame stern because a lot of where the collectability went with the le's is because they they jacked the allotment up so much You know, when you were at 250 and then 500 and a thousand, you know, that, that did make it scarce, but they were also leaving money on the table as a business. When you sat there and you see your games go up three or $4,000, you know, that that could have been money in your pocket. So I don't at all blame them for upping the allocation of the normal LEs. But that being said, does doing a super LE, even if you had a thousand LE units, does that still makes sense because you do now get to satisfy some of those high-end collectors because those hundred, you know, you're not leaving a lot of money on the table yourself because you've satisfied and done what you needed to do with the normal LE units. But that super LE, now you've actually created a true collector's piece again without, I think, business-wise having to feel like that you really lost out. Yeah, I see what you're saying. And again, there's some research there that would support that. But again, it's a different market right now too. And I think so much of that is going to be dependent on what the title is and what the license is and what the overall. Oh, yeah. And that's why I said something like Jaws. Like, you know, when we started this and like what you said, like, you know, you even mentioned about, you know, the A++ license type deals. You're not doing it on every title. But, you know, I wouldn't have done that, obviously, on King Kong. Dungeons and Dragons. I mean, it's a super popular IP, but I still don't know if I would have done that on that. But I do think something like Jaws, honestly, even Jurassic Park probably, I think was big enough. I mean, you know, I think it definitely takes a particular license. But I do think that there maybe is some room for that. So if there was a $17,500 Jaws edition and let's say they made 100 of them, what would have to be in that game for you to be like, yep, I'm ready to go to 17.5 on 100 units, 100 pieces? Oh, man, I don't know. Because, see, that is the tough question. I mean, it really is. I mean, it really is. I would think maybe some more sculpts, a little bit more, you know, 3D, you know, 3D, like, you know, your slings and different things. Maybe upgrade some things like that. You know, some of the things that some of the mod communities doing throw in there. Toppers, that gets a little tricky. Do you put new code in there or exclusive code? No, I think that starts to change. Nope. I think that starts to change things a little too much for people. And I think that you get into a really kind of gray area there to where you do start to upset people. And again I know that some of the toppers have come you know Jurassic Park and some toppers and stuff come with a particular code that will come with that topper but it never really anything major on there in my opinion but i you looking more cosmetic upgrades yeah i think i think so still yep i think you keep the same kind of tradition from premium to le but from le to super le that sort of that sort of thing maybe a topper a topper can get so expensive though to create and do that there might not just be really any room to be able to for research and development and production of a limited topper like that 100 units let's take this jaws 50th and you i love this kid i love that i sparked you i love that you got i've got you rolling i got you thinking it's right right right so you take the jaws 50th and you remove the blood red powder coated armor and you chrome that whole thing and then you chrome the coin door and you throw some exterior lighting on the backbox and on the on the underside of the cabinet and you have uh i don't know back glass and an extra sculpt in there somewhere i mean i mean where do you where do you draw the line is is that something that does that not make it special enough to where yep i'm 17 5 oh no i think you add a few more things i think i think you add like a new uh not not a mech per se but like there is this awesome um and i'm so mad right now that i can't give the person a shout out but there's like a moving buoy mod for jaws where the buoy sets back there and it kind of rocks back and forth and i mean it is at the perfect pace it it is an amazing awesome mod and it lights up like i'm talking about adding something like that to it too where it's not an interactive toy so it's not changing gameplay it's not doing it yeah yeah but but you've added something special like that to it as well like those are the sort of things i'm talking about adding in there as well to do that to justify that jump from your Ellie to your super Ellie. Yeah. I honestly, Greg, if I had a guess, I'm sure we'll see something like this at some point on a future title, whether it's with Stern or Jersey Jack, spooky pinball somewhere. Yeah. Um, it, it, it, it's worth seeing what happens. And again, to a certain extent, we kind of saw what happened was a Batman 66 has what? 88. I do remember how many games, not 88. And you had to go in. So that's another thing that you have to think about too, with this, uh, you know, But Batman 66, you basically, didn't you have to record like a whole thing about why and send in about why that you deserve to possibly get one of these games because they were so limited? And, you know, you were picked to be able to be an eligible buyer. Application process. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, you know, that's another thing. When you limit something to 100 units, how do you decide who gets those? And if all that's running through your dealers, how do you decide that allotment? And then it puts a lot of pressure on your dealers because how do they decide? To me, if you're going to do that. Yeah, if you're going to do that, then you open up the option of saying, hey, we're going to this is going to be like Ferrari. You can't just walk into a dealership, buy a Ferrari unless you've bought Ferraris in the past. So if you want that that upper end super LE model, you you would have had to have bought one in the past to get the invite to buy the next one. And until you, you know, have the right of refusal that you choose to to drop out of that program. It's just those same guys are buying it. I don't know if that's even fair or not because if they are turned for profit, you've got built-in 100 flippers on those 100 LEs. There's a lot of things you can do with these games and a lot of things that I've theorized on and dreamt about. I don't see all of it coming to fruition. Oh, no, I agree. I just want to throw something out there. It was something that I discussed with somebody this morning, and they kind of brought it to my attention and stuff, And I was like, you know, so I started putting a little bit of thought into it. And I was like, you know, that that is something very different and very unique. So, you know, I just want to I want to pick. I don't think it's. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. I don't think it's been figured out. I think there could be a better job being done. And some of it is if it's not broke, don't fix it. But at some point that it get broken, arguably, yes. So how do you adjust for, you know, what people are looking for and what people are asking for? How do you satiate everybody and make sure everybody's happy? because the last thing you want to do is make people unhappy. But, you know, as a business, you don't want to leave money on the table either. So, again, going back, it's a delicate balance, and I can appreciate all sides of it. And I think, aside, CERN has got that balance down pretty well right now with what they're doing, with the allotment of LEs, with all that. I mean, they're in a good spot. So, again, you know, it's just a hypothetical. If they were to kind of shake things up, do something a little different, you know, satisfy those higher-end collectors. You know, I know Zach and I have talked about that, you know, previously on Straight Down the Middle episodes and stuff years ago, kind of about, you know, still satisfying that ultra high-end collector and that $20,000 plus range sort of thing. So, you know, I think they're doing everything actually very excellent. But, you know, just food for thought. Yeah, and I think a lot of it comes back to corporate or company identity too. I mean, how do these companies identify? Is Jersey Jack Pinball trying to be the luxury brand? And if they are, then why are they putting $9,999 games out for sale? Is Stern wanting to be a higher-end collectible brand? And if they are, then why are they able to make 150 games in a day? I don't know. At some point, you've got to keep the line moving, right? You can't stop the line because then you run into an issue. You just have to be efficient with people that are in-house and that are working. You've got to be profitable. you've got to satisfy an extremely demanding fan base when it comes to pinball uh no stone left unturned when it comes to the criticism so it's uh it's it's certainly not easy you hear you hear the cliche uh pinball is hard and it it certainly certainly is oh yeah um at the end of the day we should all feel lucky that we just kind of get to sit back relax and play these games and enjoy these games and today we could be super happy because we have another new pinball machine out in the wild with the jaws 50 oh you couldn't have said it better ken i mean you are absolutely right all right greg i would say i'll see you in two weeks but uh it seems like i'll probably see you in a few days when the next new game comes out god knows what that is but it's probably on the way and we don't even know about it games are coming out like they're going out of style right now like you said we are lucky to be living in these times absolutely absolutely if you want to reach out to us myself or greg it's kind of flipping out pinball.com greg at flipping out pinball.com And again, if you want to buy a new or used game or even turn in a used game towards another used or new game, go to FlipinOutPinball.com. You can see what we have available for new inventory. And the used inventory right now until we migrate it over to the website can be found on our Facebook page at FlipinOutPinball. Go all the way to the top. There's a pinned post. It updates every single day, and you'll know exactly what we have available. Finally, if you're looking for a used game, we take interest lists for new games. Absolutely. But if you're looking for a used game that might be turned in to us on a trade-in, you can reach out to myself or Greg and we can put you on the list. And when that game comes in, hey, we're just going to give you a call. Be like, hey, listen, we just got this game in. Are you interested? And then that speeds up the process for you and it helps us out along the way as well. And then finally, we do have Patreon set up. So if you go to Patreon.com and you search Flip N Out Pinball Podcast, there's different tiers. is there to support the show. But it's fun because we do have bonus content. Greg, I think you'll agree. The one thing that we're able to do is really get lost in the weeds in conversation. And some of it's just so extended that it just doesn't make the podcast for the first few episodes. But it's there. And you can sign up. Exactly. And you can actually get access to that. And sometimes we forget about things that we're wanting to talk about. So sometimes, you know, at the end of our next podcast, we will discuss and bring up maybe a little more Jaws talk for some bonus content. You never know what kind of bonus content you're going to get on that Patreon. But you never know what you're going to get. Sounds dangerous. I like it. Yes. All right. We want to thank you for listening. For Greg Bone, I am Ken Cromwell. Just when you thought it was safe to go back into your game room. Stern Pinball drops Jaws 50th anniversary on your ass. And don't forget to take some time out of your day. and play some pinball. So long, everybody.

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: cf57c150-d567-4ff8-a451-e5243e301bb7*