# Episode 971: "Kaneda Slams Kaneda for Bad Rumors"

**Source:** Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2024-07-01  
**Duration:** 19m 41s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-971-for-107250717

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## Analysis

Kaneda acknowledges past rumor inaccuracies on Beetlejuice and Harry Potter details while defending partial correctness, discusses upcoming Stern releases (Godzilla black-and-white edition at Comic-Con, Metallica Ride the Lightning), criticizes Jersey Jack's lack of connected features compared to Stern's Insider Connected ecosystem, analyzes secondary market impacts of new editions, and delivers harsh criticism of Zaccaria/Fathom's Centaur delays and community communication failures.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Spooky Pinball is releasing Beetlejuice and Jersey Jack is releasing Harry Potter — _Kaneda, ~2:30 mark - presented as confirmed but details unclear_
- [HIGH] Stern will release Godzilla black-and-white edition at Comic-Con end of July — _Kaneda, ~7:30 mark - credits himself as source and Don Pinball Podcast for unveil confirmation_
- [HIGH] Stern is releasing both Godzilla 70th anniversary and Metallica Ride the Lightning 40th anniversary editions — _Kaneda, ~8:30 mark - predicts Godzilla in August/September timeframe_
- [MEDIUM] John Wick LE buyers have lost approximately $5,000 in secondary market value, with machines worth ~$8,000 after one year — _Kaneda, ~9:30 mark - opinion on secondary market depreciation_
- [MEDIUM] Godzilla black-and-white edition will be released as Premium tier with accessory package option — _Kaneda, ~16:00 mark - speculation on production strategy_
- [MEDIUM] Godzilla Premium owners will see their machines depreciate by $1,000-$2,000 due to new B&W edition announcement — _Kaneda, ~17:00 mark - market prediction_
- [MEDIUM] Alien topper pre-order customers have been unable to receive products or refunds for months — _Kaneda, ~18:30 mark - citing unspecified pre-order issues_
- [HIGH] Stern Pinball can deploy seasonal code updates (Halloween, Christmas, Fourth of July modes) via Insider Connected — _Kaneda, ~12:00 mark - cites Jaws Fourth of July mode example_
- [HIGH] Jersey Jack does not have connected leaderboards or timed seasonal code features — _Kaneda, ~12:30 mark - direct comparison of platform capabilities_
- [HIGH] Godzilla is ranked #1 on Pinside Top 100 and is Stern's best pinball machine ever made — _Kaneda, ~15:30 mark - stated as established fact_

### Notable Quotes

> "I was wrong about Beetlejuice. I was wrong apparently about Harry Potter rumors... The reason I've been wrong is I've listened to some sources that had me believe that what they were saying was 100% true."
> — **Kaneda**, ~2:00
> _Kaneda explicitly acknowledges sourcing problems and lack of verification on major game announcements_

> "There's some truth in these last two rumors I got wrong... Now, what we don't know is the order and exactly when those things are going to happen."
> — **Kaneda**, ~2:30
> _Distinguishes between confirmed game existence and uncertain timing/details_

> "This is the number one game of all time... This is arguably the best game Stern has ever made. It just is, right?"
> — **Kaneda**, ~15:30
> _Kaneda's assessment of Godzilla's position in the industry hierarchy_

> "As a Jersey Jack owner, where it took them three and a half years to polish the code, Stern Pinball really does reward you with consistent and great code updates."
> — **Kaneda**, ~12:00
> _Direct criticism of Jersey Jack's code update timeline relative to Stern's responsiveness_

> "If Stern hooks everybody with Insider Connected and then wants you to pay like a monthly subscription to get all of those things, I don't think that's going to work. I think people will revolt."
> — **Kaneda**, ~13:30
> _Prediction about potential monetization backlash for Stern's connected platform_

> "You're a joke. You're an utter joke. And I will say this to your face, Marty, Damien, just call it quits. It's over."
> — **Kaneda**, ~24:00
> _Harsh criticism of Marty Robbins and Damien (Zaccaria) regarding Fathom/Centaur delays and dishonesty_

> "When you tell people you're going to have something in eight weeks and it takes eight months... the fact that you can lie to the community and then you turn on a podcast and laugh and joke about everything."
> — **Kaneda**, ~23:00
> _Core complaint about Zaccaria's failure to deliver and perceived hypocrisy in public communication_

> "Elton John sales, whatever, they're still sitting at dealers... The game that I think is absolutely crushing it right now is Jaws Pinball."
> — **Kaneda**, ~10:30
> _Market observation comparing JJP and Stern sales momentum post-release_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Kaneda | person | Host of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (also Knapp Arcade); primary speaker discussing industry rumors, game releases, and market dynamics |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Manufacturer of Harry Potter and Elton John games; subject of criticism for code update delays and lack of connected platform features |
| Stern Pinball | company | Manufacturer of Godzilla, Jaws, Metallica, John Wick, and other games; praised for consistent code updates and Insider Connected ecosystem |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Manufacturer of upcoming Beetlejuice game; referenced as releasing in fall with no current activity |
| Harry Potter | game | Jersey Jack Pinball game; Kaneda admits he was wrong about specific rumors regarding details, but game existence is confirmed |
| Beetlejuice | game | Upcoming Spooky Pinball game; Kaneda acknowledges past rumor inaccuracy regarding this title |
| Godzilla | game | Stern Pinball game ranked #1 on Pinside Top 100; upcoming black-and-white edition revealed for Comic-Con late July; 70th anniversary edition |
| Metallica Ride the Lightning | game | Upcoming Stern Pinball game celebrating 40th anniversary of album; Kaneda predicts release timing |
| Jaws | game | Stern Pinball game with strong post-release momentum; praised for consistent code updates and seasonal features like Fourth of July mode |
| Elton John | game | Jersey Jack Pinball game; praised for shooting mechanics and Steve Ritchie design but criticized for code depth concerns; Collector's Edition still available for purchase |
| John Wick | game | Stern Pinball game; described as poor seller with significant secondary market depreciation (~$5,000 loss on LE purchases) |
| Centaur | game | Upcoming Zaccaria game; subject of deposit refund controversy due to extended delays from Fathom production issues |
| Zaccaria | company | Manufacturer of Fathom and Centaur; subject of criticism for delays, poor communication, and deposit handling |
| Zach Minney | person | Zaccaria representative; responsible for handling deposit refund policy for Centaur; Kaneda blames Damien rather than Zach for failures |
| Damien | person | Associated with Zaccaria/Fathom; primary target of Kaneda's criticism for delays and deception regarding Fathom/Centaur timeline |
| Marty Robbins | person | Podcast host associated with Zaccaria; criticized by Kaneda for laughing/joking on podcast while company delays games and misleads community |
| Jeff Teolis | person | Mentioned as laughing with Marty Robbins on podcast; associated with Zaccaria communication |
| Don Pinball Podcast | organization | Media source credited by Kaneda for confirming Godzilla black-and-white edition unveil at Comic-Con |
| Knapp Arcade | organization | Associated with Kaneda; pinball podcast and platform |
| Iceman44 | person | Mentioned as hypothetical high-volume buyer of Elton John CE; implied to be wealthy collector |
| Beezleboob | person | Mentioned alongside Iceman44 as hypothetical high-volume buyer of Elton John CE |
| Seth Davis | person | Referenced in joking context as 'destroying prices of stern pinballs'; context unclear but implies secondary market manipulation accusations |
| Steve Ritchie | person | Pinball designer credited for Elton John; Kaneda notes fans of his work will love the shooting mechanics |
| Comic-Con | event | Venue for Godzilla black-and-white edition reveal, scheduled end of July (approximately 3 weeks from podcast date of July 1) |
| Pinside Top 100 | organization | Ranking system where Godzilla is #1; Elton John is #8 |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Rumor Accuracy & Sourcing, Upcoming Game Releases (Godzilla B&W, Metallica, Beetlejuice), Stern vs Jersey Jack Platform Comparison (Insider Connected, Code Updates), Secondary Market Pricing & Depreciation, Zaccaria/Fathom/Centaur Delays & Customer Refunds
- **Secondary:** Pre-Order/Deposit Culture & Risk, Game Design Rankings & Assessment, Industry Transparency & Communication

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.35) — Kaneda oscillates between positive (praise for Stern's code updates, Elton John mechanics, Godzilla ranking) and highly negative (harsh criticism of Zaccaria leadership, false pre-order marketing, secondary market depreciation). Self-deprecating humor about his own rumor accuracy undercuts confidence. Frustration with industry practices (pre-orders, delays, dishonesty) is dominant emotional tone.

### Signals

- **[announcement]** Godzilla black-and-white edition confirmed for Comic-Con reveal at end of July (confidence: high) — Kaneda credits himself and Don Pinball Podcast for confirmation; specific timing (end of July, 3 weeks out from podcast date of July 1)
- **[announcement]** Spooky Pinball Beetlejuice and Jersey Jack Harry Potter both confirmed as coming but timing/details unclear (confidence: high) — Kaneda explicitly states 'Spooky Pinball is coming out with Beetlejuice and Jersey Jack is coming out with Harry Potter' and admits he was wrong about specific details but these are real
- **[market_signal]** John Wick LE machines depreciated ~$5,000 in secondary market value within one year; expected worth ~$8,000 down from $13,000 purchase (confidence: medium) — Kaneda predicts: 'if you bought a John Wick LE for $13,000, trust me, you lost $5,000. It's gonna be worth eight grand within a year'
- **[market_signal]** Godzilla black-and-white edition expected to cause depreciation of existing Godzilla Premium models by $1,000-$2,000 (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'if you own a premium, your game just lost about $1,000 to $2,000' and notes this will force secondary market sales
- **[product_concern]** Alien topper pre-order customers experiencing months-long delays with no product delivery or refund options (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'I heard people are having a hard time getting their Alien toppers... Nobody has one. Nobody knows where they're at. And nobody can get a refund.'
- **[design_innovation]** Stern's Insider Connected platform enables seasonal/timed code updates (Halloween, Christmas, Fourth of July modes) unavailable on Jersey Jack platform (confidence: high) — Kaneda cites Jaws Fourth of July mode example and contrasts with Jersey Jack's Wi-Fi-only code downloads without leaderboards or timed features
- **[competitive_signal]** Stern Pinball gaining competitive advantage through Insider Connected ecosystem and faster post-release code update cycles vs Jersey Jack's 3.5-year polish timeline (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'I'm super jealous of stuff like Fourth of July mode... As a Jersey Jack owner, where it took them three and a half years to polish the code, Stern Pinball really does reward you'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Kaneda expresses envy of Stern's platform capabilities and code update responsiveness, indicating shift in his perception of manufacturer quality/support (confidence: medium) — Multiple statements: 'I'm super jealous', 'Stern Pinball really does reward you', 'there's just times when you just realize why Stern is number one'
- **[industry_signal]** Zaccaria (Fathom/Centaur) subject of severe industry criticism for delays, false timelines, poor transparency, and deposit mishandling (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'When you tell people you're going to have something in eight weeks and it takes eight months, at the end of the year, we were going to have Centaurs in January. All of it is a lie.' Directs criticism at Marty Robbins and Damien for dishonesty.
- **[community_signal]** Kaneda criticizes pre-order culture and warns community against depositing on unreleased products; advocates waiting for in-stock availability (confidence: high) — Kaneda: 'Stop throwing money at stuff that's not built. Stop trusting people you don't know... just wait. Like these weren't gonna sell out.'
- **[rumor_hype]** Kaneda acknowledges poor rumor accuracy due to unreliable sources presenting speculation as fact; admits to being ~30% right on some rumors (confidence: high) — Kaneda opening: 'I was wrong about Beetlejuice. I was wrong apparently about Harry Potter rumors... The reason I've been wrong is I've listened to some sources that had me believe that what they were saying was 100% true.'
- **[product_launch]** Stern expected to release both Godzilla 70th anniversary and Metallica Ride the Lightning 40th anniversary editions; Godzilla predicted for August-September timeframe (confidence: medium) — Kaneda: 'I wouldn't be surprised if we see Godzilla sometime in some time like August September' and confirms both games are coming but doesn't know order

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## Transcript

 Nobody said it was easy. No one ever said it would be this hard. Oh take me back to the start. Said I, said I, said I, said I, said I, said I, said I... Nobody said delivering pinball rumors was easy, but man Welcome to Kinnadus Pinball Podcast, the one pinball podcast that is getting everything wrong lately. I was wrong about Beetlejuice. I was wrong apparently about Harry Potter rumors and I'm just gonna say this right now. The reason I've been wrong is I've listened to some sources that had me believe that what they were saying was 100% true. I'm gonna talk to you about the how this Harry Potter thing developed, but also, you know Now, there's some truth in these last two rumors I got wrong. Spooky Pinball is coming out with Beetlejuice and Jersey Jack is coming out with Harry Potter. Now, what we don't know is the order and exactly when those things are going to happen. We don't know exactly who's on artwork, this and that, but I'm not 100% wrong. Is Kaneda 30% right? Who knows? You know, Damien has been more successful getting people fathom machines pets Rest Protect at Pimball for so long nobody cares about these john wick contracts the only hit we need to put out is on set davis for destroying the prices of stern pinballs i do not advocate violence against set davis that was simply a joke if you If you're a Gen Z kid and you're offended by everything, please turn off the show, okay? Nobody cares about that. We're waiting for Spooky's next. That's not gonna happen until the fall. There's nothing going on anywhere in pinball right now. It's just Elton John's CE owners trying to convince themselves that this game is gonna sell out. They will never sell out of 1,000 Elton Johns at $15,000 a pop unless Iceman and Beezleboob buy every single one. It's not gonna happen, okay? Ileana Petrosian at All of these sozusagen factors allow the playerissen to choose which pinball rests portfolio at least twenty-fold, whereas another thing that is pretty significant in the show that, as in all, it does have fancy causes associated with blessed with a fewupa-com McCarnell, Hilary Hall-Hall assembly,metter-football Illinois icon at the daredevil-Tribe employees,the Leeville Goldberg, Moore Farler, Kurt Thomas Chaz Moss Drew Wainwright impersonator Abertonjourney Bufordwu Hi, another big чуть. Started, right? Perfect?把 its time to 때 What Mark Seidens game Is it Muppets Who knows I at the point now where I don even really know anymore what to expect from anyone anywhere in the pinball world except for Stern Pinball because they gonna do what they always do and when a game like John Wick doesn sell they just gonna go back to the well and now we know that they bringing this Godzilla black and white edition which you heard here first on Canadian Pinball Podcast They are bringing that to Comic I give credit to Don Pinball Podcast for telling us when they were going to unveil this game I been a little bit all over the place because you know I thought that Metallica Ride the Lightning was going to come out in July Here the thing Stern is going to release both of these games They going to do both Godzilla 70th and Metallica 40th anniversary of Ride the Lightning When they do which one I don know I wouldn be surprised Next ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿ pray sometime in some time like August September becauseolanyeong¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿host been told to make desperate of games aside tying Geral Means tempsGrand antid angels 거�ün,productains slices,clוז eatsiant� ge�dyn guideon, souffrelicnt akuanishdyinal receiving, infertile,acji نہیںbegottaafjø Leonard someone elselifej fib微dígerhuisiyü utilizáres diversió'ten teninapematicáh Garra pasalor phalaán Charlesht Fred Taruhtó Montgomery FOR surfaces???5 Ei šoidojawooki ö-šiacionalfer segment Dokia tomenjantoešuviġç payrolln söyledethan ziy ect. For all the dealers and all the distros who had to place orders on these John Wick games because they're gonna be sitting on them forever and if you bought a John Wick LE for $13,000, trust me, you lost $5,000. It's gonna be worth eight grand within a year everybody. Everybody knows that. Okay, so back to Jersey Jack, here we are. It's like almost July, I think it is July. It is July first today and Elton John Sales, whatever, they're still sitting at dealers, The part I don't get about Elton John, it is a great game. I've said it since I've played it. I love the game. I still worry about owning one and how deep the code is. If you're not the biggest Elton John fan, I think the reason for owning this game are a few reasons. First, it shoots so damn well. If you're a fan of Steve Ritchie, you're gonna love it. But I just worry about spending this much money on Elton. If you're not the biggest fan, I worry that the code is not that deep. The game is a really good game. I think out of all the games out there, I mean this, out of all the games out there, if you were to buy a game blind, just based on people's feedback of the game, based on people's experiences of the game, the game I would still get right now is Elton John because I don't think anyone's wrong, right? Terms of the game are as follows. The game that I think is absolutely crushing it right now and the new code update seems amazing and I will say this, there's just times when you just realize why Stern is number one. Jaws Pinball is out and they just keep code updating this game and making it better and better and better and I'm very envious of what Stern Pinball does for its owners as As a Jersey Jackgunsandroses owner, where it took them three and a half years to polish the code, Stern Pinball really does reward you with consistent and great code updates. And not only that, because they have insider connected, I'm super jealous of stuff like Fourth of July mode for freaking Jaws, right? They can do stuff throughout the year that is connected to what's happening seasonally, and that's really, really cool. Just think about all the possibilities of Stern being able to do that and drop special Halloween code for a game or Christmas code or Thanksgiving or Mother's Day and Father's Day. They could do all this fun stuff with Insider connected and Jersey Jack doesn't even have any connectivity with its games other than Wi-Fi code downloads but nothing else. They don't connect their owners. They don't have a leaderboard. They don't have special code that's timed to things happening in the year. And I think that's also really fun for Stern Pinball while it's still free. That's the thing. If Stern hooks everybody with insiderconnected and then wants you to pay like a monthly subscription to get all of those things, I don't think that's going to work. I think people will revolt. So here we are. Kaneda doesn't know what's next from Jersey Jack. Let's talk about What about this Godzilla black and white edition coming to ComicCon the end of July? That's like in three weeks people. So it's coming soon. How do we think they're going to do the black and white? If we look at Elvira and Munsters, two games that got the black and white treatment, what they normally do is they focus in on a primary color and everything else is black and white. There was a little bit more color I believe on Munsters than there was on Elvira Blood Terms of discussion Terms of discussion I just think when you make it all black and white it actually kind of crazy when you walking into a lineup of games and every single thing on that game is black and white The slings the inserts the artwork the legs everything the topper like make it all black and white It almost looks so disruptive and crazy like you going from a color world to an old school black and white TV I would love to see them do that I'm not gonna do it. They're not gonna do it. It's not gonna be that way. What they're probably gonna do is either make Godzilla green or just colorize his blue like gamma ray beam. I think that's what it's called. Whatever his atomic Breath is called. And I think they might do that. But I would really love Stern to sort of go a little bit beyond. And I'll explain why. Because this is the number one game of all time. It is. Like if you just look at the pin side top 100, it is number one. This is arguably the best game Stern has ever made. It just is, right? And so if they're gonna make, if they're gonna pay homage to the 70th anniversary of what is ranked as Stern's best pinball machine of all time, it sucks, right? It's like this was the one game where it really deserved like some super limited edition black and white version of Godzilla and because Stern stupidly made remakes of games that people didn't even really need more of in Elvira and in Max Because they've made so many LEs and premiums, every single LE and premium has the same exact playfield, the same color playfield, even though the cabinets are different. When you're standing over an LE and you're standing over a premium, you are both looking at exactly the same game. But this black and white version, ah, it's new. It's fresh. Not everybody has it. You're going to be looking down at something special. And if you love Godzilla, I think you're going to wantёнge 556 Apt, colour ID 526.53987547巴 So we're about to see this Godzilla. We know that Stern is going to make it a premium. We know there's not going to be powder coated armor, but here's what I think they're going to do. I think they're going to make an accessory package where if you buy it, if you buy the accessory package, you're going to have the nicest version of Godzilla. And I think we're going to see a lot of Godzilla LEs go up for sale. Now here's the game that's really going to be fire sold. All the people that own Godzilla premiums. I mean, we always think about like it's the Ellie people that get screwed. But man, if you own a premium, your game just lost about $1,000 to $2,000. And we know, everybody knows this. If you want to buy all of these exciting new in box games that are about to come out, a lot of you are going to have to free up some room. And the only way to free up room is if you sell something and nobody wants to see their games lose value. All right, what else is going I heard people are having a hard time getting their alien toppers. Remember when this topper was revealed months ago and they took deposits on it? Nobody has one. Nobody knows where they're at. And nobody can get a refund. Welcome to the world of modern pinball. Show something before it's ready. Show something before you have it manufactured. Get a bunch of bored white old men to buy it and then have them pound sand for months as they try to get their merch. And news flash, ladies and gentlemen, you shouldn't buy anything until it's made. In a box, ready to go to you. I could go buy an Elton John collector's Edition today in a box and open it up for a Fourth of July party and have fun. That's how life should work. Stop throwing money at stuff that's not built. Stop trusting people you don't know. The only person you should trust who you might not know SO we were serious about that one. DOWNDAB litechle coepettal si cotton here. Soosas moay agai tello no yadaay ray Junior ad uskaing the yozalt ni sholari no xotamo Ment David C Bar),in the game, congratulations. And if you put a deposit on the topper, I don't know what to tell you. Like why'd you do it? Like just wait. Like these weren't gonna sell out. There's no such thing as a topper that's impossible to get unless it's all the Stern toppers that are impossible to get. What is Kaneda doing? He is contradicting himself on every sentence right now. Why do we listen to this guy? So speaking of refunds, we're gonna hear today from Zach Mennie about his official Ryan Policky on what he's gonna do for haggis deposit people who gave money towards Centaur. Now you know that Kaneda and Zach have buried the hatchet, but I'm gonna say this and I mean this when I say it. I don't blame Zach Mennie, I blame Damien. And I've said this from day one. Zach Mennie is doing his job. He's trying to help Damien sell some games. C Barpoonsin playbook is available at www.fifteenball.com, or at www.fifteenball.com. For more info, click the link in the description below. The Plans and Plan Dispensations Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 Part 11 Part 12 Part 13 Part 14 Part 15 Part 16 Part 17 Part 18 Part 19 Part 20 Part 22 Part 22 Part 23 Part 25 Part 24 All you have to do is hammer in all the posts. And this is crazy right? Marty's shoes were hiding in the corner. Damian is actually using them to hammer in the posts on every fathom game. And that's why it's taking so long because Marty's shoes are not as effective as a hammer. Look, everybody knows this. This company is done. Zack really never even should have said he's going to give refunds because at the very beginning of deposits, everybody knew the risk. This is a video that I'm going to be doing in a couple of weeks. And if you gave money on Centaur, you did it knowing all too well the fathomed debacle that was happening. So for those people who gave a deposit, yes, you knew what the risks were going to be. Now, what I think is going to happen is this. I think Zach is going to map out a timeline where if stuff doesn't happen by a certain date, you can roll over your money into some other deposit or credit for a future flipping The end of the day, the best win-win scenario for everybody. I think when that does happen, I think Zach is not going to want to work with Damien again. I don't think anybody really wants to work with Damien again. I don't want to listen to Marty Robbins ever again. You know, turning on his podcast and he's all laughter with Jeff Teolis. Like the guy took money from people. They both openly lied to everybody in the community. When you tell people you're going to have something in eight weeks and it takes eight months, The end of the year, we were going to have centaurs in January. All of it is a lie. And the fact that you can lie to the community and then you turn on a podcast, Mike, and you laugh and you joke about everything and you don't even address the very company you're a part of. You're a joke. You're an utter joke. And I will say this to your face, Marty, Damien, just call it quits. It's over. Damian should be retired in the Pinball Hall of Fame. Alright everybody, look, a lot's gonna happen in the next few months of pinball. Right now, I encourage each and every one of you, just enjoy your July 4th like long weekend. Don't play too much pinball, have more barbecue and beer and we'll be back this week with more episodes of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. There's one guy who even when he's wrong, he just makes it sound so right. Later! Subtitles by the Amara.org community

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: cfb0613a-6628-4037-8ec0-18a6300c900a*