# Episode 390: Jason McKay

**Source:** Pinball Profile  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2024-02-10  
**Duration:** 16m 48s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.pinballprofile.com/episode-390-jason-mckay/

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## Analysis

Jeff Teolis interviews Jason McKay at Maple Pinball about his custom instruction card business (System J). McKay creates enhanced, two-sided instruction cards for modern Stern pinball games with basic rules on one side and competitive strategy on the other, including QR codes linking to curated video guides. He currently offers cards for Turtles, Avengers, Godzilla, and Black Knight Sword of Rage, with Jurassic Park in progress, and emphasizes the need for hands-on game access and deep code knowledge to create accurate guides as games evolve through code updates.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Jason McKay has created updated instruction cards for four games: Turtles, Avengers, Godzilla, and Black Knight Sword of Rage — _Jason explicitly states the four games he has completed instruction cards for during the interview_
- [HIGH] Jaws code is currently at version 0.8.3 with additional features and inserts not yet implemented — _Jeff Teolis directly states 'We're at 0.8.3 code right now' regarding Jaws, indicating the game is still in active development_
- [HIGH] Jurassic Park had a significant code change involving the Nedry mechanic that affected instruction card content — _Jason mentions 'the whole Nedry thing now' as a recent code change that made earlier card work obsolete, demonstrating active game evolution_
- [MEDIUM] Instruction cards released by manufacturers sometimes just show Stern Insider advertisements instead of useful rules content — _Jeff mentions having a game where 'the right scorecard is just a Stern Insider advertisement' and calls it an unnecessary replacement_
- [HIGH] Jason McKay's instruction card business only became revenue-generating about a year ago — _Jason explicitly states 'I haven't been doing it. I just started releasing them for sale within a year ago'_

### Notable Quotes

> "When I look at instruction cards and they give you a little bit tell you maybe how to light a lock or here's how to get a match or a special or whatever the case may be there's just so many rules with new games"
> — **Jeff Teolis**, early in interview
> _Establishes the core problem that Jason McKay's product solves—inadequate official instruction cards for complex modern games_

> "You know what? I hope that people change them up once in a while. I hope people look at the cards and don't pick it just as whatever side is the prettiest but actually like look at the information"
> — **Jason McKay**, mid-interview
> _Reveals McKay's design philosophy prioritizes information clarity over aesthetics, though he works to balance both_

> "I didn't love it until I learned the code. And certain things like potentially having a strategy for the drops and the gems at the same time can really increase your game"
> — **Jason McKay**, discussing Avengers
> _Illustrates how detailed rule knowledge transforms player experience and appreciation for game design_

> "It doesn't pay well, but it's fun. But you know what? You didn't do it to make big riches. You did it to give back to the community"
> — **Jeff Teolis**, late interview
> _Contextualizes McKay's business as community contribution rather than profit motive_

> "You don't need just access to the game. You need keys to take the glass off. Admit it. Come on."
> — **Jeff Teolis**, mid-interview
> _Humorously highlights the practical reality that creating accurate rule guides requires full playfield access_

> "I have to play it a lot. I know you're a good player, but be honest. You don't need just access to the game. You need keys to take the glass off."
> — **Jason McKay / Jeff Teolis**, mid-interview
> _Establishes that McKay's process requires hands-on experimentation and deep code knowledge, not just reading rules_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Jason McKay | person | Pinball player, competitive player at Cabin Fever, creator of System J instruction card business; trained visual artist who worked in arts field for decades; competitive with Jeff Teolis in tournaments |
| Jeff Teolis | person | Host of Pinball Profile podcast; competitive pinball player; plays frequently with Jason McKay at tournaments; maintains deep knowledge of pinball history and design |
| Maple Pinball | organization | Arcade location in Mississauga, Ontario where Friday night tournaments are held; where this episode was recorded |
| Karen McKay | person | Jason McKay's wife; described as wonderful pinball player who plays at Cabin Fever |
| Cabin Fever | organization | Pinball league or location where Jason and Karen McKay play competitively |
| System J | product/business | Jason McKay's instruction card business; available on Pinside, Etsy, and through personal website; creates enhanced rules cards with QR code guides |
| Turtles | game | Stern pinball game; first game Jason McKay created instruction cards for; spent nearly two years developing initial cards; game with deep ruleset and randomness element |
| Avengers | game | Stern pinball game; second game McKay created cards for; chosen for challenge; features drop targets and gems as underrated strategic elements |
| Godzilla | game | Stern pinball game; third instruction card project; likely in late code stages but still subject to tweaks |
| Black Knight Sword of Rage | game | Stern pinball game; fourth completed instruction card; took from summer to December to complete; features deeper ruleset about modes and value increases |
| Jurassic Park | game | Current instruction card project; experienced significant code change with Nedry mechanic; making McKay reconsider card information |
| Jaws | game | Recently arrived at Maple Pinball; at code version 0.8.3 with unimplemented middle playfield inserts; currently being tested |
| Dwight Sullivan | person | Programmer/designer at Stern; designed Turtles pinball; provided technical tips to Jason McKay about undiscovered game mechanics |
| Elwin | person | Legendary Stern designer; praised drop targets mechanic on Avengers; complimented McKay's instruction card approach |
| Pinball Profile | organization | Long-running interview podcast series hosted by Jeff Teolis; available at pinballprofile.com and social media; has Patreon support |
| Pin Tips | product | Community resource for pinball strategy; has voting system; limited compared to detailed instruction cards McKay creates |
| Pinside | organization | Online forum community where McKay researches rules, finds deep mechanical knowledge, and sells instruction cards |
| L1 | person | Pinball designer; Jason McKay's current favorite designer (though he notes not necessarily all-time favorite) |
| Barry | person | Pinball designer; mentioned in top three designers alongside L1 and Steve; both Jason and Jeff appreciate his work |
| Steve | person | Pinball designer; mentioned in top three designers by Jason McKay |
| Walking Dead | game | Stern pinball game; one of Jason's first cards he thought of creating but got sidetracked; experienced significant code changes over time |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Custom instruction cards and rules documentation, Pinball game code evolution and updates, Competitive pinball strategy and gameplay
- **Secondary:** Community contributions and niche businesses in pinball, Deep ruleset design in modern Stern games, Visual design and information clarity in pinball accessories, Access requirements for rule research and game mastery
- **Mentioned:** Pinball tournament play and location leagues

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.85) — Jeff Teolis is enthusiastically supportive of Jason McKay's work, calling it a 'great niche' and expressing genuine appreciation for his contribution to the community. McKay is humble but clearly passionate about his work. There is no criticism or negativity in the discussion—both speakers celebrate the product and its value to players.

### Signals

- **[community_signal]** Jason McKay's System J instruction cards represent organic community-driven solution to inadequate official documentation, filling gap in game learning resources (confidence: high) — Jeff explicitly states 'I think you found a great niche and something that has been in demand for a long time' and describes McKay's cards as improvement over manufacturer instruction cards that are sometimes just advertisements
- **[design_philosophy]** Separation of basic rules (front) from competitive strategy guides (back) reflects recognition that casual and tournament players have different information needs (confidence: high) — Jeff praises the two-sided approach: 'you've got kind of the basic rules on the front and on the back a little deeper. If you're a competitive player, if you're looking for big scores...you need to know what the best strat is'
- **[market_signal]** Jason McKay's business growth from hobby to commercial venture in under a year indicates viable market demand for enhanced rules documentation; time management becoming bottleneck suggests scaling potential (confidence: medium) — Jason notes he started selling about a year ago and is now spending significant time 'stuffing the envelopes, sending them out' to meet demand, which is taking time away from creating new cards
- **[community_signal]** Jason McKay represents crossover of traditional visual arts expertise into specialized pinball community business, bringing design discipline to rules documentation (confidence: medium) — Jason states 'I was trained as a visual artist I worked in the arts field for a couple decades, and this was a fun way to mix a couple of my loves'
- **[product_strategy]** Enhanced instruction cards with QR code links to curated video resources represent post-purchase value-add accessory market emerging in pinball ecosystem (confidence: high) — Jason describes cards including 'QR code that will go to a dedicated page which is a page that I work on while I researching the game' with links to forums, videos, and community discussions
- **[technology_signal]** Pinball game codes are rapidly evolving post-release with features not implemented at launch, creating moving target for documentation efforts (confidence: high) — Jason cites Jaws at 0.8.3 with unimplemented features, Jurassic Park Nedry code change, and overall pattern that 'games evolve, and they can change drastically'

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## Transcript

 it's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teals you can find everything on pinballprofile.com or on twitter x instagram at pinball profile you can email pinball profile at gmail.com we have a great facebook group as well and if you'd like to show your support on patreon that would be wonderful not necessary the show will always be free but thank you to great supporters like GME Law, Derek S, Derek K, Lua W, and others. I'm here at Maple Pinball where we're doing our Friday night little tournament that we do all the time here in Mississauga, Ontario and I'm with a friend of mine who has created something pretty cool that I want to share with you. His name is Jason McKay. Jason, how are you? I'm doing well. We're here obviously because Jaws just showed up so that was kind of fun. You got a few games on that? I did get one game so far. There'll be more. Yeah, oh, definitely. You've got the Jaws shirt. L1, your favorite designer? Right now, yes. I don't know all time, but yeah. Top three, who are they? Steve, him, Ausler. Oh, wow. Big Barry fan. I like Barry too. Okay, you and I are pretty competitive players. In fact, we duke it out a lot of times and it's pretty 50-50. It's great to see how much you've really improved over the years and you play at Cabin Fever as well and your wife Karen another wonderful player you and I are always seeking how do we play games what's the best way to do it and when I look at instruction cards and they give you a little bit tell you maybe how to light a lock or here's how to get a match or a special or whatever the case may be there's just so many rules with new games and thanks to you Jason you have these updated instruction cards that are available for a lot of the modern games. Tell us what you've done. Well, first, I wouldn't say a lot. I've got about four right now, four games. And they're all set up for the pros and the premiums separately because of the tweaks and the different rules. But I'm doing what I think a lot of people wanted to do, have had the thought in their head to say, you know, hey, these rule cards are old. I mean, some of those rules don't even apply anymore. They've changed the rules. And it's understandable. I mean, when they release the game, they release the cards, I don't even know if they know what shots are going to be important. You know, what on the game is going to be interesting, the focal point. I'm sure they all have a general idea. But, you know, there's things that can be cut out, and there's heavy rules in the new games now. You got a good point, too. We're looking at Jaws, and we're kind of, okay, how does this game work? Maybe we've seen the videos. But you look at the play field, and you're like, oh, look at all these different inserts here in the very middle of the play field. They're not even implemented yet. We're at 0.8.3 code right now. You know they'll come. It's great. It'll make the game deeper. But as you just said, games evolve, and they can change drastically. A good example would be, oh, I don't know, The Walking Dead. Yeah, yeah, The Walking Dead. I would love to do The Walking Dead. That was one of my first cards that I thought of, actually. I know exactly what I'm going to do on it. But I just keep on getting sidetracked. So let's explain what you're doing with these updated instruction cards. Again, they're two-sided. They're beautiful color. It's a nice thick stock. They'll go on both sides of the apron. But what I like about it is you've got kind of the basic rules on the front and on the back a little deeper. If you're a competitive player, if you're looking for big scores, maybe you're in a tournament where you're trying to get the best game score or league play and you're playing against a bunch of heavyweights. you need to know what the best strat is. Sometimes pin tips just doesn't give it to you, and certainly the instruction cards don't. No, I mean the instruction cards definitely don't. Pin tips can be great, and I do like the voting on it. But I mean, even with the cards that I have, so on the right card that I have on all the cards so far I have a QR code that will go to a dedicated page which is a page that I work on while I researching the game while I researching the rules And it's an amalgamation of all the best videos and tips and links that I can find. So I try not to step on anybody's toes, try to give everybody as much credit as I can. But, you know, for instance, there's the first link on it is it's tilt forums because that's, you know, where I'll pick up a lot of the heavier rules from at least starting to get into it. And then I try to dig a little bit deeper and then I'll have conversations with people on Pinside. I just did a set for for Black Knight and sort of rage, sort of rage. That's correct. And somebody on Pinside just started to let me know about this deeper rule set about the modes and trying to increase the values on them that I had no idea existed. And I was almost done with the cards by the time he told me about this. Does that mean you have to start over a little bit? No, no. It just, you know what, almost those cards took me way too long. I started them in the summer. I didn't get them out until December. Even though I thought it was going to be easy. I thought, you know, Black Knight Sword of Rage, oh, that's the easy one from the new ones, but no. Well, I want to know the four games you've picked so far, and I know more will come in the future. Black Knight Sword of Rage, what I like about that one that you picked is, okay, they're probably done code on that game, whereas you also have a card for Godzilla. You think we're done. We might be done, but things could change. Probably not drastically, probably just tweaks to scoring maybe modes, but who knows? And is that one of the factors? You have to find the sweet spot of, okay, I think this code is, for the most part, done, minus the odd tweak. Oh, absolutely. So I've had people asking me for 007, and I'm just like, no, I'm not going to touch that. Good call. You've got to wait. Yeah. Yeah, it's like I don't want to get people cards and then have to replace them. So what four do you have? The four. I started with Turtles, the game everybody loves to hate. then I did Avengers because I wanted the challenge and then I did Godzilla and Black Knight Sword of Rage and I am currently working on Jurassic Park the new one that's great because that did have a big code change good thing you didn't do that one earlier because the whole Nedry thing now yep yep the Nedry yep and overall I mean I don't think that would have made the cards completely obsolete but yeah i mean little things like that it does definitely uh helps them know the code is roughly done so you're selling these cards on pinside where can people go uh pinside and uh etsy um yeah pinside is you can look up system j on uh pinside or etsy uh that's pinside j pinball i've also got a website which has links to all of those i don't necessarily have a store in my website. I just point them towards... Yeah, and we'll post those on our socials here on Pinball Profile so that you can check these out because they are beautiful. They are detailed. I mean, I'm going to put mine on my apron for Godzilla, but I kind of want to have it standby. Maybe I'll read it back and front, back and front, and then put it... Yeah, you know what? I hope that people change them up once in a while. I hope people look at the cards and don't pick it just as whatever side is the prettiest but actually like look at the information that's that's what comes first with these cards is i'm trying to work with the information and then i'm trying to make it not too busy which is almost impossible with the depth of the codes now you'll be able to see again on our socials some of the pictures of these and again the websites but the fonts the accuracy the artwork it's really beautiful well thank you yeah i mean i was trained as a visual artist I worked in the arts field for a couple decades, and this was a fun way to mix a couple of my loves. You know like I thought hey this would be a great idea and I started with turtles and I had a turtles at home So I worked on those for almost like two years and just thinking about like how to do that better And over those two years, I just tried to clean them up, make them a little bit better, got a lot of feedback. And then over the last four cards that I've done, I look back at those first ones that I worked on for so long. and I would like to redo them too just because of clarity and the text. There's always things to fix up. But I also have people sending me emails asking me, oh, can I please do this game, that game. Some people, it's great. They seem to really be, it seems to help them out. And I'm not trying to be charitable or anything, but it's just fun that I'm part of the community, I guess. I think you found a great niche and something that has been in demand for a long time. And especially when John Youssi some of the new games. I can't remember which game I have at home, but basically the right scorecard is just a Stern Insider advertisement. And I'm like, okay, that's fine and dandy, but it's already in. It came with the game. I don't need that there. I'm not an arcade. This is a great replacement for that. Yeah, that's why I do the second card. So, I mean, like the first card on the left, I tried to add a little bit more to what they usually have. And then on the right, for instance, on Avengers, I have information on the gems and on the drop targets, which, you know, like learning that game, learning the code made me love that game. I didn't love it until I learned the code. and certain things like potentially having a strategy for the drops and the gems at the same time can really increase your game and just become a different type of immersive event for you while you're playing the game. The drops are one of the most underrated things on Avengers, and I remember talking to Elwin about that, and he really loved that. Whether it's Walking Dead-like or really almost Ripley's Believe It or Not with the grid, I think it's great, and you get into that with these enhanced instruction cards. So, again, we want people to check out the website on the socials and give us some of the games you're working on after this. I know Jurassic Park. What else? I mean, you'll probably do Bond, but it might take a few years. Oh, yeah, Bond. Maybe by the end of the year. I mean, I'm really uncertain to enjoy Bond, so I might start digging into it and working on it early and then see. Hopefully it doesn't change too much. but I mean if it's anything like Guardians yeah I mean maybe another year maybe there's a lot of titles that you're probably safe to do maybe it's Maiden, maybe it's I don't know ACDC, who knows all of them, I mean all the new ones I'm getting calls for older ones, I would love to do some, not older ones but like early 2000 games and there's some great options out there it's just that right now it's becoming that I'll get busy with actually selling the cards. So, for instance, people, if it gets popular, I start stuffing the envelopes, sending them out, and that's right now taking time away from me actually making the cards. So it is, you know, it's a good problem to have. It's a good side business. I like it. Yeah, yeah, it's fun. It's fun. It doesn't pay well, but it's fun. But you know what? You didn't do it to make big riches. You did it to give back to the community and maybe have a little piece of, hey, there's what Jason McKay added to pinball. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I haven't been doing it. I just started releasing them for sale within a year ago. And then I had a friend of mine the other day, like a pinball friend, just go, I guess I was talking about them, and he turned around to me, and he said, hey, you're System J. It was kind of interesting just to have that, almost like a second life. Well, Jurassic Park's a good one. I know you're working on that. My little tip from me to you, and you probably already know this, pick the games that sold the most, right? I think there's more customers out there. Yeah, I do that, but I also, like, I mean, I did Avengers, I did uh Black yeah Black Knight Sword of Rage you know like I did that because I wanted to do them It just sometimes like it takes a lot of work So I have to be motivated I also have to have access to the games. I have to have access to the games. I have to have it because just reading the rules is not enough. Like you have to dig into the rules. For me anyways, I can't. I just can't sit there and read the rules and then that'll be enough. I have to play it a lot. I know you're a good player, but be honest. You don't need just access to the game. You need keys to take the glass off. Admit it. Come on. It doesn't hurt. You know what? That doesn't hurt. That's true. Sometimes I can't, though. Sometimes I can't. Sometimes. And I think that's what's actually making me a better pinball player right now is that when I can't, if I got to go to a location that has the game and I'm so focused, I'm like, I got to find out what this one thing does. and I think that's, you know, like I love that about the new sterns, I love how deep the code is, because it's a different experience than the older games I'm not saying it's a better experience but it's a different experience Well you get your money's worth, certainly because of, again, the home market, you know, you don't want to get tired of games and certainly a lot of the games we've seen come out in the last ten years have been deep, like you say, wonderful coders and not only that, but really people that are expert players themselves are now in the business too, so it all comes full circle. And we really like what you're doing. Have you showed any of the programmers or any of the coders any of these yet? Because I think they'd be fascinated. I was really tempted earlier on to show Dwight Sullivan with the turtles. And I ended up talking to, when I was digging into the code in that, I ended up talking to one of the lead programmers there. and he ended up giving me a lot of tips that people just couldn't figure out on the game, which was fantastic. And then I was able to share it. I was able to find out what some of the toppings do. For me, here's where I talk about how Turtles doesn't suck. Because I know everyone's rolling their eyes right now. I know people that love Turtles, especially the owners of Turtles. They love the theme. Dwight Sullivan has his fans for sure. and I'm a fan of Dwight, that game is a deep game. So maybe that's part of the frustration. It's deep in a different way. And it's almost, I mean, there is more randomness in it. And I find that what I thought earlier on might have been a really good tournament game. I'm not completely convinced of that. Even on the competition mode, I think it takes away some of the fun. And some of the randomness on the game makes it really fun at home just to keep the freshness. You can play the game based on the ingredients that you play will change how you play the multiball. So your strategy in the multiball can change based on it. And yeah, just other perks in that. It's a fun game. I mean, all the games that I've gone into, there's always been surprises. and that's fantastic with what the new coders are doing what the new designers doing jason congratulations thanks for doing these unique instruction cards and again go to our socials on facebook on instagram to find out where you can purchase these and and see what jason has done all the best to you buddy terrific thanks thanks this has been your pinball profile you can find everything on pinballprofile.com we're on twitter we're on x we're on instagram at pinball profile you can email pinball profile at gmail.com and if you'd like to show your support on patreon that would be wonderful patreon.com slash pinball profile don't worry the show will always be free but this certainly helps keep it going so thank you to wonderful supporters like rodney c and sean i and so many others for pinball profile i'm jeff teolis .

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: d2df1365-c7e7-4703-a635-3302bcb0c2c5*