# #35 Xenon - The Classic Pinball Podcast

**Source:** The Classic Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2020-08-25  
**Duration:** 55m 1s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/george272/episodes/35-Xenon---The-Classic-Pinball-Podcast-eih6a0

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## Analysis

George and Dr. Dave discuss Xenon, a classic 1978 Bally pinball machine designed by Greg Mayek with art by Paul Farris, notable as Bally's first game with speech. They play the game, compare strategies, discuss restoration preferences, and share acquisition stories. The episode covers game setup, bonus mechanics, playfield condition importance, and tangential discussions about spinner games, classic pinball strategy, and restoration projects.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Xenon was the first game released by Bally that had speech. — _George states this as a definitive fact about the game's historical significance._
- [MEDIUM] Suzanne Cianci performed the speech work for Xenon. — _George names Suzanne Cianci as the speech performer, stated as fact but not independently verified in the content._
- [HIGH] Xenon requires a specific package (double back glass, tube, playfield condition) to work properly and that any degradation detracts significantly from the game. — _Dr. Dave emphasizes that Xenon is essentially an artwork piece and multiple components must function together for the game to be worthwhile._
- [HIGH] George acquired his Xenon approximately 10 years ago for $300 from a hoarder's house in Jaffrey, New Hampshire. — _George provides detailed narrative of the acquisition, including the journey, house condition, and purchase price._
- [HIGH] Dr. Dave acquired a Xenon and Tempest arcade cabinet combo for $50 each ($100 total) and has since restored and sold the Tempest. — _Dr. Dave describes the acquisition and subsequent sale of both machines._
- [HIGH] George's Xenon has a free ball threshold set at 390,000 points and is configured so the bonus does not carry over between balls. — _George explicitly states his game settings during gameplay discussion._
- [HIGH] Keith Elwin is a notable competitive pinball player that George has competed against. — _George recounts playing against Keith Elwin on Black Knight at California Extreme in 2003 and being decisively beaten._
- [HIGH] Dr. Dave picked up a Valley Paragon machine with a roached MPU and battery damage that he plans to restore with a new playfield from CPR (pinball restoration company). — _Dr. Dave provides detailed account of road trip to acquire the Paragon, mentions contacting Kevin Wyatt at CPR for playfield availability._

### Notable Quotes

> "The most important part of this game is that it was the first game released by Bali that had speech."
> — **George**, early in episode
> _Establishes Xenon's historical importance in Bally's product line._

> "This game doesn't get as much respect as it probably should, but I don't know if this would be my only game."
> — **George**, early discussion
> _Acknowledges Xenon's cult status but expresses reservations about it as a primary machine._

> "This is more, I think, of an artwork piece... because that's what the game's all about."
> — **Dr. Dave**, game evaluation
> _Characterizes Xenon's value as primarily aesthetic rather than gameplay-driven._

> "Guys, this is an art game. You're buying this game for the artwork. It's fun. You'll play the hell out of it."
> — **George**, episode conclusion about Xenon
> _Summarizes the appeal and positioning of Xenon for collectors._

> "I'm going ramp all day. Ramp all day, all night."
> — **Dr. Dave**, gameplay strategy discussion
> _Reveals Dave's competitive strategy prioritizing ramp shots over saucer play._

> "It's a sucky game... Not a deep game... It's pretty. $6,000? Yeah, that's a deal."
> — **Ian (from Poor Man's Pinball podcast, quoted by George)**, second half of episode
> _Critical assessment of Fathom that provokes strong reaction from Dr. Dave regarding game value._

> "You have no idea who I am, do you? ... You're about to find out."
> — **Keith Elwin (recounted by George)**, California Extreme 2003 story
> _Memorable competitive moment establishing Keith Elwin's reputation._

> "I quickly ordered this Paragon Playfield. They're going to soon be made of unobtainium."
> — **Dr. Dave**, end of episode
> _Indicates supply scarcity and urgency around Paragon playfield restoration parts._

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Xenon | game | 1978 Bally pinball machine, first Bally game with speech, features prominent female artwork, designed by Greg Mayek with art by Paul Farris. |
| Greg Mayek | person | Designer of Xenon pinball machine. |
| Paul Farris | person | Artist for Xenon pinball machine. |
| Suzanne Cianci | person | Performed speech work for Xenon. |
| George | person | Co-host of The Classic Pinball Podcast, owns a Xenon acquired in Jaffrey, NH for $300 approximately 10 years ago, collector and pinball enthusiast. |
| Dr. Dave | person | Co-host of The Classic Pinball Podcast, collector and restorer, recently acquired Valley Paragon, owns multiple classic games, competitive player. |
| Keith Elwin | person | Noted competitive pinball player; defeated George in Black Knight competition at California Extreme 2003. |
| Kevin Wyatt | person | Associated with CPR (pinball restoration company), manages Paragon playfield restoration/reproduction. |
| Joel DeGuzman | person | Artist who created a Xenon artwork tribute to Paul Farris, and collaborated on Hershey Bears hockey-themed pinball art commission. |
| Ian | person | Co-host of Poor Man's Pinball podcast, critical assessment of Fathom quoted in episode. |
| Neil Schatz | person | Competitive pinball player from California area, played with George on Bow and Arrow at California Extreme 2003. |
| The Classic Pinball Podcast | organization | Podcast hosted by George and Dr. Dave, episodes 35 focuses on Xenon. |
| Poor Man's Pinball podcast | organization | Podcast featuring Ian as co-host, quoted for critical game reviews. |
| CPR | organization | Pinball restoration company operated by Kevin Wyatt, offers Paragon playfield restoration/reproduction services. |
| Valley Paragon | game | Classic pinball game in upper New Hampshire lake house, acquired by Dr. Dave with roached MPU and battery damage, planned for restoration. |
| Fathom | game | Classic pinball game, subject of critical podcast discussion; described as pretty but shallow by Ian from Poor Man's Pinball. |
| Tempest | game | Video arcade game acquired by Dr. Dave alongside Xenon for $50 each, subsequently restored and sold. |
| Black Knight | game | Classic pinball game used in competitive play; George played against Keith Elwin on this machine at California Extreme 2003. |
| Funny Games (Framingham) | organization | Arcade venue where Xenon head was the mascot. |
| California Extreme 2003 | event | Gaming convention where George played competitive pinball against Keith Elwin and Neil Schatz. |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Xenon game design, history, and appeal, Classic Bally pinball machines, Pinball restoration and maintenance, Collector acquisition and restoration practices
- **Secondary:** Competitive pinball strategy and gameplay, Spinner games in classic pinball, Playfield condition and artwork preservation, Pinball community culture and economics

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.78) — Hosts are enthusiastic about Xenon and classic pinball games, engage in friendly competition, and show passion for restoration and collecting. Mild frustration expressed about game difficulty and competitive losses, but tempered with humor. Some critical commentary about other podcast hosts' game assessments (Ian from Poor Man's Pinball) shows disagreement but remains respectful.

### Signals

- **[restoration_signal]** Dr. Dave emphasizes that Xenon's value is heavily dependent on the complete package including playfield condition, back glass quality, and cabinet condition. Any degradation significantly diminishes the game's appeal and value. (confidence: high) — Dr. Dave: 'If any one piece, like a roached-out playfield or a roached-out cabinet or, God forbid, bad back glasses, it detracts from the game because that's what the game's all about.'
- **[restoration_signal]** Dr. Dave acquired a worn Valley Paragon playfield and immediately contacted CPR (Kevin Wyatt) to order a replacement playfield. Kevin indicated limited availability with a pre-order list system. (confidence: high) — Dr. Dave contacted Kevin Wyatt at CPR and was informed playfields are going out of stock soon ('They're going to soon be made of unobtainium').
- **[collector_signal]** Both hosts emphasize they entered the hobby at an optimal time and regularly find deals at significantly lower prices than current market rates. They express concern that current buyers are overpaying. (confidence: high) — George: 'I'd like to buy a new game for the winter, but I don't want to overpay. People are crazy what they're paying for this stuff. And I know we sound like a bunch of old farts. We just got into the hobby at the right time.'
- **[design_philosophy]** Both hosts characterize Xenon as primarily an artwork/display piece rather than a deep gameplay experience. The aesthetic appeal is the main draw for collectors. (confidence: high) — George: 'Guys, this is an art game. You're buying this game for the artwork.' Dr. Dave: 'This is more, I think, of an artwork piece... because that's what the game's all about.'
- **[gameplay_signal]** George configured his Xenon with punishing settings (390k free ball threshold, no bonus carryover) to improve his skills, but acknowledges this may be overly harsh. Difficulty configuration significantly affects game enjoyment. (confidence: high) — George admits: 'I think I set this game up really punishing' and Dr. Dave responds: 'You kind of did. But it's good, though.'
- **[competitive_signal]** George mentions past competitive tournament play and expresses desire to organize future tournaments with nice players, indicating active tournament community participation. (confidence: medium) — George: 'I can't wait to have another pinball tournament... We have to get some non-Freaky Cat pinball players... that are nice people.'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Dr. Dave strongly rejects Ian's (Poor Man's Pinball) critical assessment of Fathom as a 'sucky game,' indicating community tension around game evaluation standards and podcast credibility. (confidence: high) — Ian (quoted): 'It's a sucky game... Not a deep game.' Dr. Dave reacts with strong disagreement: 'What's he smoking? Because I don't want any.'
- **[historical_signal]** George conducted an interview with the son of an arcade owner from his childhood in Lavalette, New Jersey. The subject wrote a book called 'Beyond Playland' documenting arcade history from the 60s-70s. (confidence: high) — George: 'I contacted this person whose father owned the arcade in the town I grew up in, Lavalette, New Jersey... he wrote a book called Beyond Playland.'
- **[supply_chain_signal]** Paragon playfield reproduction from CPR is being managed through a pre-order list and availability is reported as becoming limited ('unobtainium'). (confidence: high) — Dr. Dave: 'They're going to soon be made of unobtainium, and I got that done.' and Kevin Wyatt's indication of an early emailer pre-order list.
- **[restoration_signal]** Dr. Dave evaluates acquired Valley Paragon's MPU board condition (battery damage evident but rectifier acceptable) and makes decisions on board replacement vs. repair based on cost-benefit. (confidence: high) — Dr. Dave checks rectifier condition: 'Even the rectifier? Yep, it didn't look burnt up.' and discusses whether to repair or replace boards.
- **[design_innovation]** Joel DeGuzman created custom pinball artwork for a Hershey Bears hockey team-themed machine, demonstrating the growing market for custom game themes and reskins by skilled artists. (confidence: medium) — George discusses Joel's work on a hockey-themed pinball with custom artwork, powder-coated parts, and professional presentation.
- **[personnel_signal]** Joel DeGuzman is emerging as a custom pinball artist, creating tributes to classic artists (Paul Farris) and taking commissioned work (Hershey Bears theme). (confidence: medium) — George praises Joel's custom Xenon tribute and describes his Hershey Bears hockey-themed pinball artwork as 'freaking beautiful.'

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## Transcript

 Imagine Me and You Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Classic Pinball Podcast. My name is George and I'm joined for the first time in five months live, Dr. Dave. Hello Dave. Hello George. great to be here in your humble valley abode very nice we're down in the basement i was telling dave today we hadn't seen each other we've talked obviously because you've heard all our podcasts that our most successful shows are the shows about games today we're actually going to do Xenon. Speaking of Xenon. That was timely. So we're going to play a game of Xenon because you folks liked that as well in one of our episodes. And we're going to talk a little bit about the game. I'm going to try to pronounce his name correctly. Greg Mayek. Right. Ding ding. And Paul Faris did the art. The most important part of this game is that it was the first game released by Bali that had speech. And the woman who did the speech work was a woman by the name of Suzanne Cianci. I think the most important part of this game was the girl with the giant red yabos in the center of the playfield. Well, some people like the figure of the woman between the flippers, but that's a matter of choice. This game doesn't get as much respect as it probably should, but I don't know if this would be my only game. Yeah, I have one, you know, like George, and I have an opportunity to get either a deal, guys offer me a Xenon or a Joker Poker, and restore one, keep one kind of thing. and I already have a Xenon, I already have a Joker Poker, but I just think that Joker Poker is a better overall game than Xenon. So I'm going to say I'll keep Joker Poker or start a Xenon for you. Well, there's too many things that can be wrong with this game. You've got the double back glass. You've got the tube. You've got... You need the whole package for it to work. If any one piece, like a roached-out playfield or a roached-out cabinet or, God forbid, bad back glasses, it detracts from the game because that's what the game's all about. So this is more, I think, of an artwork piece, but I bought mine on the cheap. I found this game, I'm going to say 10 years ago, might be a little bit longer, but not by much, and it was in western New Hampshire in a town called Jaffrey. So again, remember 10 years ago, I put it in the GPS and I end up on the top of this hill out in this beautiful farm. It's a fall day. And I said, wow, this is a great place to come get the game. But the GPS says I'm not quite here yet. I got to go down this road. And there's a road or so it looked like it was all leaf covered. And I started going down the road, and suddenly it didn't feel like road. It felt like mud. It had poured the night before. So not only am I on leaves, but I'm in mud. And I said, oh, my, please just get me back up by the farmhouse. And it was more than a couple hundred feet. Made it up there. come to find out when i get to the destination the guys i said something to the guy i go it took me to the wrong house oh that happens all the time where'd you end up on the logging road yes i ended up on the logging road but that's only part of the story it even got better from there this gentleman's house had a doorway right from the uh gravel driveway into the basement of the home. What greets me when I walk in the door? A four-foot pile of laundry that had been thrown down the stairs from the upstairs part of the house. I'm like, oh my, what am I in for? And I see this, it looked like a hoarder's ex. Was there banjo music involved? No, but it gets even better. So there's, you know, it's a hoarder's haven. And there's stuff everywhere. And he goes, you've got to come back here. And I look, and there's the game. And I look at it, and I go, okay, yeah, $300, done. He goes, how long will it take you to get out of here? I go, 10 minutes. He looked at me like I had another eye in the middle of my forehead. I took the back glass off, took the lockdown bar off, started moving everything. He's looking at me like I'm the kitchen magician. He goes, I didn't know that did that. I'm like, oh, my God. How many times have I heard that? Right, right. And I had this thing dissected and done in like seven or eight minutes. He just looked at me in utter amazement. I said, all I need you to do, sir, is kind of move that pile out of the way so I can get my hand truck through the door. I said, just open the door. I know you can't help me lift. And I threw everything in the back of the truck, and that was the end. That was my Xenon story. Good one? Good one. Good one. I got a Xenon story. I picked up a Xenon out of the one ad. It was a Xenon combo Tempest. And both didn't really work, but they're both in nice shape. So I said, I don't know, what do you think for these two? She said, I don't know, how about 50 bucks a piece? I said, oh, that's fair. I'll take a Xenon for 50 and a Tempest for 50. That's great. That's the video game. Yep, video game. I just sold that. I just restored that. That's with the dial, right? Yeah, the dial. I had to dial that in, so to speak. But I'm bummed. You had to rebuild the whole thing. So now, I remember playing that Tempest back in the arcade, and you'd try to spin it really quick, and it goes, and it wouldn't spin smooth, and you wouldn't get maximum spins. Is that all analog? It's all analog. Yeah, it's a little encoder wheel, the metal encoder wheel at the bottom of that. So there's contacts. And it reads ones and zeros as it goes through. I want to talk about this game with Funny Games in Framingham. This was their mascot. The Xenon head was our mascot forever. Well, we can talk about the artwork, and we'll talk about Joel. We'll give him some props again, because I already had a couple things to talk about him. But we should play a game, and when we play the game... I hope... Is it on free play, or is there only one credit on there? No, this is the Allen board. Okay, so it's... Allen board, what do you mean? You put the ROM in there. Oh, you put the free play ROM. Right, which I would never have put in. You can turn it off. I don't care. Okay. it's not that important. So, take it. I plugged two games in. If you want to start... Should I talk a little bit or no? Well, we should talk. Let's talk while you plug. Alright. One, two, three. No, we got zero on that one. Dave and I decided to play a game and we're going to see who has the better strategy on this. I'm going to be up front as I was on one of our episodes and saying that I stink at this game. I play this game more than almost any other game in my collection and it has me more than I have it. I've watched the strategy videos. I've done everything almost you could possibly do with this game. You get five or ten here. Oh, McDonald's. Wow, I missed that. I don't know why that didn't light, but you get five a time. Sometimes I think this game is cursed. It didn't go all the way up. Now it went through. Okay, I have mine five a time. That's tough. Five a time. Do you have yours reset at the end? Oh, no. We're going to talk about that because I went and researched that as well. Okay. I don't know how other people do that besides me. Well, I did it because I knew you and I were going to talk about it, and I'm so stupid I don't even pay attention to what I have this thing set at. So the first thing is the saucer up top. Yes. On my game, you get 10,000 points for getting it in the saucer and one advance on the bonus. so earning bonus on this game is tough so i very stingy i let it carry over because i'm so bad i can't i can tell you how few times i can get above 20 in one ball i can't because the only other way and this is the thing i never paid attention to but it's again truth the two yellow targets on the left-hand side are the only way you can advance the bonus as well on this game the way I have it set up. So, it takes a lot of shooting to get... It really does. You're working your ass off on this game. Right, so I guess what I'm asking is, did I set this game up really punishing? Because I think I did. You kind of did. But it's good, though. Well, no, it's not, because Because the threshold for a free ball, I know you don't believe in that, but it's 390,000. That's lofty in this game, but it's doable. I didn't say it wasn't doable, it's just not doable often. Okay, so maybe I don't stink that bad, just kind of have a little odor. It's good. So did you notice that I put the red LED on? Over here? Yeah. I like it. Okay. I had one there, but the red LED just... Yeah, it is kind of punchy. See, now that's really good. $164,000 on a tough setup game. I'm doing pretty well there. I'm not going to do as well, trust me. I have a ball lock and everything. Yeah, I got shit. I hate the middle of this game. Look back there. yeah look so Wow so did it get to 164,000 I get 15 I think I'm making my point I got a little Xenon thing and come on, don't go there. Up the ramp. No. Let's try again. But you got 20,000. I did. I'll take that. Up the ramp though. Yes. Sweet. The red and blue LED's happening. So are you... Oh, there you go. Oh, look at that. See that's... That's a good part of this game. Oh, that's a good part of this game. That's a good part of this game. Oh, that little post down below? You need that? Oh, because a lot of bollies don't have it. This game needs it. Right. Well, this game needs it because they know that that shot was going to go down. Well, they know that the operator's not going to set that shot up right, and it's going to end up in there a lot more than you want it to. Yeah, you're punting. See? Oh, man. I knew this was going to happen. I'm Eric Stoning out, man. Yeah, I knew this was going to happen. Well, no, you're just reinforcing what I thought all along. What's that? That I'm really bad at this game, but I love it. I don't know. It's a great game. Hey, Ian, listen up again. This might be a one pony but it a really hard one pony Hit the ramp Ian And if you get good at it you can shoot just about anything Hit the effing ramp There you go I ramping up with the Bethlehem right now I think I might adopt that. Oh, you bat-shut. Hey, Ian. I'm not going to be that big a dirt bag. What's my free ball? What do I get, 380, 360? No, 390. All right, almost there. I think I can get it in the fall. Right, but you got 20. But see, that's what I mean. On any other Bolly game, the bonus would mean something. Because you could get the multiplier. Even getting the multiplier on this. It gets you nothing. Well, you can't get the multiplier the first time you knock all the targets down on my game. Right. Right. That's pretty hard. It basically says, that just gets you into the game. Right? And you don't want to... You're anteing up. It's your anteing is what it is. But it's a very... I don't know. I'm not very good at it. I love playing it, and it's certainly what I would call a one more game. I can't wait to have another pinball tournament. Oh, God. See, I'm horrible. No, I know. We have to get some non-Freaky Cat pinball players... It's Steve. ...that are nice people. No asshats involved. We don't want those. We want nice people. And have a good time. I've had my shots. You know, I took tequila. You're not there yet. Tequila involved. You're not there yet. Still got a score. No, you bastard. Come on. Oh, you're close. Bounce it up. You're close. I don't know. I think you're short. Oh, I missed it, right? Did I miss it? Yes. Oh, you pissed me off. See that's what I mean. You know what frickin ramp game. No, it's it. No you called this. Oh, no, this isn't I Thought you called this a level shifter, but this isn't a level It's a level shifter no, it's a ranking Denied me my free ball. Oh. You weren't paying attention. I could have been yakking too much. I was distracting you. On purpose. Because I really suck. It's hard getting those numbers up top. You don't want to angle up there somehow. You've got to have a lot of faith with this game. A lot of faith. You've got to wait for it. Yeah, it's not a screamer by any stretch, but it's a freaking calculating game. Yeah, it is. I like it. I don't know. I can never see a cell in mine. It's simple, but there's a lot of games better than it. It's a great game. I put a lot of money into it. I did, too. I mean, back in the day, quarters or money? No, no, no, no, no. I put money into this game to make it right. I mean, at $300, but it came up nice, I think. You might want to actually... You could touch it up a tiny bit and put a playfield... You wanted me to put the playfield. Yeah. I just... No, you don't like it? Have you tried it? Have you tried one? I'm not selling this game. So when I go, somebody gets it. Okay. I'm going to enjoy it. I want the game the way it is. All right. You want to basically just... Play the game. You're right there. No prophylactic involved. Well, no. I mean, if I were... Out of all my collection... Yes! Yeah. You know what? I'm not going to wear a raincoat. We're going in. That's what George said. I get why people do it, and it's fine. It's what the hobby is about. You like what you like. I like what I like. Sure. And it's your money, and it's my money, and you do what you like, and I'll do what I like. It's all that darn John Day's fault. He got me into doing that. I can't sell them because I put too much time into them. I love a pre-potector. And that's why I'm picky in buying stuff. we talk about it all the time. That's my new segment. I'm just going to talk about all the crap I've seen every week online and auctions like we talked about today. That kind of stuff. Because you're the guy who's out and about. I'm just the guy who sits at home in the gilded cage and looks on the internet and plays my games and has fun. I'd like to buy something. I'd like to buy a new game for the winter, but I don't want to overpay. People are crazy what they're paying for this stuff. And I know we sound like a bunch of old farts. We just got into the hobby at the right time. That's all. When I'm out there in the field these days, I'll tell you, I feel like I am Rambo John Jay. See, I'm not a Rambo guy, so I don't have any idea. People on the people listening will know that. Do I just look like that dog on TV that just goes, whoo? Whoo? Whoo? Whoo? You saw the Rambo thing. I showed you the Rambo thing, didn't I? Dave, I see so much stuff come across from you. I'm Rambo John Jay. So let's hang on. You can look up the Rambo thing. I'm going to talk about the game strategy. So obviously Dave knows how to play the game because he beat the crap out of me. Do you balance your game from left to right, or do you concentrate on the ramp versus the saucer? Because that's pretty much where the game is going to be lost. I'm going ramp all day. Ramp all day, all night. Even though it doesn't carry over? It doesn't carry over. Because mine goes, you go to zero too? Well, mine actually goes all the way to the end. End goes to zero once you go over. Once you go over, you're back to zero again. But mine will carry. No, I think I have mine set all the way to 90. My thought was... Does yours carry or carry? Oh, no carry. Oh, that's mean. George you have to earn every yeah I mean that's a mean xenon right there oh no you start over every time you plunge a ball Wow it's that's why I'm not very good at it that's that you thought I think it accomplishes what I want which is I want to get better at it so you're a set of rainbow John Jay it's because of that there oh I saw that one that's what rainbow is that Brian Keith Brian Keith where's your mask son I recognize Brian Keith with a mask on how good is that where's your mask son Rambo's going don't fuck with me I don't know if I've ever seen that movie so so ramp all day ramp all day ramp all night and uh and you don't worry about the multiplier no it'll it'll blow him eventually screw it you don't worry about getting the the multiball no I'll get that eventually. I'm just going to keep going for a couple times. And you don't worry about getting the 2,000-point spinner? I do like that. Right. It's 1,000 points. It's only one. But you know how you have to get there. Yeah, multiball. Right, which requires you to get it in the saucer six times. Do you just hold over or not, your 1,000? None. Brutal, George. It's too brutal. Yeah, I made this game really bad. You did. wow, I feel honored getting 384 on it. No, you did really well. That's what I said. Okay. Anything else we need to talk about this game? Because they're really... All I know is... There really isn't a lot. Guys, this is an art game. You're buying this game for the artwork. It's fun. You'll play the hell out of it. And the face is fun and game. It's fun and game from the 70s and 80s. It's iconic. That's what draws me in. That was the face of fun and games. Xenon face. And we'll give some props to Joel DeGuzman doing his Paul Tharris tribute. Yeah, nice work by Joel. And the Xenon is on there. Suitable for framing. Yes, mine's up on the stairway coming into the game area. I also heard that he, through Dr. Penn, hooked him up with a person who was part of the Hershey Bears hockey team and they did a re-theme of a pinball and Joel did the artwork. Yeah, that's right. It came out awesome. I've got pictures of that. You saw a picture of that? Oh yeah, I've got pictures on the phone right now. I can show you. It came out freaking beautiful. Okay, so that's good. What game did they use? I want to say Sky Jump I think. So an EM? An EM. Do you know that person who does them here in Massachusetts? They talked his name, I don't know. That came awesome. Yeah. Oh I like that. That's great. No, the Target bag. bag Hershey oh yeah that's all nice custom caps look at that with the I like it with the hockey stick yeah you did a nice job did Wow Calder Cup champions and they have all the championship trophies on there that's uh oh they even did look they even did the apron look how nice that looks yeah now somebody put a lot of do you know this gentleman who does this yeah i do yep um he does he does nice custom work so do they use an overlay to do that they print it and then i think that's what he does almost like a sticker thing right but i think now you can actually it's better you can actually have custom made you send your artwork in and your whatever and they They will like cut the CC in and do the whole thing painted for you, I think. Either that or you see one or the other. You can actually send now to a plate film manufacturer and they'll do it for you. Your own custom stuff. You're going to pay, you're probably going to pay a grand to get it done. But the more you make, the more you're going to. You know, everything's powder coated nice colors. You know, like chocolatey colors. Yeah, yeah. Nice job. Yeah, you did a nice job. Dave, you know how many podcasts I listen to a week? Well, within the last couple weeks, I heard the following on the Poor Man's Pinball podcast. One of the co-hosts, Ian, said the following about your favorite game, a game I would love to own, and there are many other fans out there. Fathom? Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. All right. Awesome. I hope there's nothing but nice things, I hope. It's a sucky game. What? What's he smoking? Because I don't want any. Gorgeous. Prettiest game. Not a deep game. So? an okay experience. $6,000? Yeah, that's a deal. It's pretty. Now here's what's going to get you mad. Oh boy. He said, if it was sitting next to the following three games, he would Dave just spit shit everywhere. You're going to say some piece of crap game, I know it. Well, we're going to come back to the first one. But these are the three. Give me some Ramp-tastic game. I know it. Some Ramper. I know it. It's coming. Wait for it. Cactus Jacks. Give me a break. Come on. Roller game. No. What is going on? Taxi. No. Wrong. So wrong. So wrong in so many ways. Why? Who is this guy? Has this guy played Pinball more than two years? What's going on? Well, he's got probably the, they probably have one of the most listened to podcasts out there, believe it or not. Why? I don't know. You've got to have some experience, man. So, I'm guessing you're not very happy with what you just heard. I think it sounds, I don't know, kind of bush league. I don't know. Well, I knew that would get a rise out of you. Anyway. You know what? Try harder. Play a real game. So that was one of the things I heard. New subject. Spinners. Love them. I think we were very quick on the draw with the spinner games we talked about in our last episode. If you remember, and you probably don't, we talked about Quicksilver. we talked about oh I asked you about another game Oh nine ball Remember we talked about Keith Elwin and him wanting to put Yes, yep. Okay. But we decided right away that, oh, the best spinners were Fathom, Ian, take that. And. Stargazer. Stargazer. so I listened to obviously I edit this and I listen a million times and I started saying to myself you know there's a lot of spinner games so let me go look at the Bali spinner games that we didn't talk about and I'm going to give you the chance to say there might be a better one let's start with the first one we didn't even consider Harlem Globetrotters That is a lot of spinners in that game. That's true. Pitiful ballplayers of Earth, I am Ethan Bubblegum Tate, commander of the Harlem Globetrotters. For generations, your puny planet has lived in peace with the Globetrotter homeworld. But now, for no reason, we challenge you to defend your honor on the basketball court. We didn't even talk about it. We did not. So all our audience is out there saying, hey, dummies. So that was the top of the list. But I'm going to go through the whole list. Dolly Parton. Evil Knievel. Nitro Groundshaker. Knight Rider. Space Invaders. Hot Doggin. Future Spa. 8-Ball. Should 8-Ball Deluxe on the left-hand side have a spinner? No. Okay. Although, I'd be open to try it. Okay, but I thought it would be a good idea. Elektra, Silver Ball Mania, Strikes and Spares, Mystic, Medusa, and Blackjack. Frontier, Lost World, and Viking. What about Bow and Arrow? You keep wanting to go down that EM trail. I do. Great freaking game. Better than Captain Fantastic. all day long. When I played with what's the freaking guy's name? Bobby. Johnny. No. Dave. Neil Schatz. When I played with Neil Schatz, I played with him in California Extreme in 2003. We played head-to-head on Bowen Arrow. That's not the guy from Boston. No, he's I think from California somewhere. Neil Schatz. He named Schatz from Neil Schatz. He was there with Bowen. I played with Bowen. I played with Keith Elwin. I played Keith Elwin against Black Knight. I had no idea who Keith Elwin was, and I played a poker game of the, what's it called? Hold'em, no Hold'em poker, whatever. Texas Hold'em poker on pinball. We played Black Knight, and he played a really crappy first ball. So I saw that, and I know I know Black Knight. I think all these guys are rampers, so they have no idea what a classic game is. So I went all in, stupidly. And he looked to me and said, you have no idea who I am, do you? And I said, no, who are you? You're about to find out. And then he kicked my ass. Yeah, it's kind of a typical story, I'm guessing. It was fun, though. It was fun getting my ass kicked by him. Although I want a rematch, though. On my collection, I want to bring him over. I haven't practiced at all, but they are all tuned to perfection. Equal playing field and nicely tuned games. Bring it, dude. So that's all I have as far as questions for you. Now you need to tell me the story that you went on today. you picked up you know it's almost a year ago when we did our road trip to 8 Ball Deluxe was that a year? almost but even more so all our arcade episodes were in the month of August a year ago so I have something to tell you before we go to your story I have a surprise I did an interview with someone from my childhood I got the inspiration from you a year ago actually probably I was a little jealous well because you did the whole show on your arcade and I'm like I said I'm like again I said to myself well Dave's talking all about the arcade of his youth, I would like to do the same. So while you're in Jersey? No. Nope. A year ago, I contacted this person whose father owned the arcade in the town I grew up in, Lavalette, New Jersey. You're going to hear about this in our next episode. I'm going to save it. And he wrote a book called Beyond Playland. there are a lot of arcades called Playland. I'm guessing that's a tough one to copyright. And we went through the arcade from back in the 60s and 70s. It was a pretty interesting conversation. And it was a lot of fun doing it. And I understand why you wanted to do yours. Because it starts bringing up all kinds of things I hadn't thought about in a while. And he was a really good guy to do it. I very much appreciate it. I hope other people do as well. We talk about Seaside Heights, and we talk about the boardwalk. We talk about a lot of different things. So I'm hoping everybody enjoys it as much as I enjoy doing it. And the sound quality is okay. I had to do the Mickey Mouse to call in thing, but it worked. It worked. He came across. So you got the whole history and everything? You got all the gig? Yeah, it went in a lot of different directions as we do, but it was good. It was fun to do. We talked about that game, and oh, I butchered it. Now I have to edit it. I kept calling the game, that gun game, that Tommy Gun game we talked about, I kept calling it Gangster's Saloon instead of Crook's Saloon. So, senior moment. And I butchered another one, too, but I'll clean it up before I put it out. So, with that said, your turn. All right, so road trip today. Road trip today was a guy emailed me. He had a Valley Paragon up in upper New Hampshire. And he was thinking about, it's in his lake house, and he's down in Massachusetts, and he was thinking like, I don't know, I think it may be getting fixed and this and that, restored. And I said, well, I kind of gave him a ballpark approximately of what it's going to be. And he says, oh, no, no, I don't want to spend anywhere near that amount of money. I spent like a couple hundred bucks or something. I said, no, you're beyond that. The thing doesn't work at all. It's dead. So you need a lot of, at least a couple boards and so forth. So he said, well, you know, I mean, I'll just sell it. What do you give, you know? So I offered him a decent price, you know, because I knew it didn't work and I didn't see any pictures yet. Then he gave me a couple pictures, and it looked nice, but, you know, worn a little bit. So fast forward to today, took a road trip, took the nice Volvo I just picked up, an XC60 SUV, new pinball hauler. I'll tell you, the Ford Escape I had was a better pinball hauler because I could fit everything in that, including ramp games, everything. The thing would not shy away from anything. The Volvo, if it's bigger, you've got to puzzle piece things in just a certain way for that thing to work, but I made it happen. Went up there, looked at the game, beautiful cab The cab is all nice and red like it's supposed to be Beautiful back glass, playfield kind of worn But before I went up there I pinged my friend Kevin Kevin Wyatt over at CPR I said, hey Kevin, the rumor is you have some Paragon playfields happening But I haven't seen them on your website It's like, oh well, there's this thing going on If you emailed in earlier on, you're on the list I go, well, I think I'm on the list because I think I, and then he goes, oh, you are, look at that, you are. So he gave me the link, and so I knew I had a play-thru ready to go for this worn-out game, so I went up, got it, got it from the guy, paid him the money, and put it in the car. Barely could fit the thing in. I swear, I could not get the two-wheeler in the car in the game. It just, I had to puzzle pieces. Oh, you bring the two-wheeler with you. Oh, yeah, I spent like a half an hour trying to figure out how to get it in there. That's an odd shape. It was not happening. I mean, this car is new. I didn't want to mess it up, but I kind of scraped the headliner a little bit with it. It's just like, oh. But I had to get it done. It's a Paragon. You've got to get it done. The MPU roached. Battery damage, big time. But whatever. You know, that's what the Weebly board or Alltech board is for, right? So, loaded it up. And nice guy. And totally down with shaking my hand, which I love that. Give him a nice handshake, like you're supposed to do. even this day of whatever we're doing going forward whatever uh totally cool left there uh but before on the way up there i decided to see what this volvo could do when i hit a buck 16 that was a lot of fun uh with the game loaded in i did not do a buck 16 because that thing coming forward if you had stopped short uh you might be crushed so we did not we drove mellow back to here george uh with paragon in tow and just as i arrived here george was talking to me and said hold on, George, before these Paragon Playfields go away, I need to go order one for this game. So I quickly ordered this Paragon Playfield. They're going to soon be made of unobtainium, and I got that done. So now I'm going to have a beautiful cabinet, playfield, and back glass. I'm going to have a nice Paragon that's going to be for sale. How are all the other boards in the game? They were decent. All the other boards are good. Even the rectifier? Yep, it didn't look burnt up. Wow. Yep. Okay. But if it was, I don't care. I'm going to freaking go through anyway. I'll go through it or buy a new one. No, I understand. I mean, you know, it's time or money. I mean, for right now. They're inexpensive enough now. Right now, I have, because of this, I keep falling into these people keep finding me, you know, and give me good deals and stuff. The times, David. And we're going to move into that in a second. We're going to have a little can you name the price quiz. Things are on sale. I mean, I'm getting things on sale. I got an awesome home use only skate ball on sale. a Paragon on sale a Sea Witch, a Nine Ball I got two Skateballs now two Skateballs, two Sea Witches two Skateballs, two Sea Witches, two Nine Balls two Paragons I have a guy who wants to deal with me with a Future Spar and a Sinbad, so I'm going to take the Sinbad Sin Sad, but System Ones are awesome, all you gotta do is put a Pascal in them and restore the game and you're good those didn't exist a long time ago I know, now they do. I did the old Rotten Dog, and that was painful. It was pretty rotten. Rotten Dog is done, by the way. Oh, there are no more? Jim Knight has retired. Okay, I didn't know who owned. So now, no more MPU 327s to do the Williams games, that all-in-one board. That was a wonderful board. Through System 3 through 6, not so much. I bought the last one from Big Daddy. It was usually $300. He was charging $400. I said, fine, bought it. Do you think that's something that Andrew will do at some point? Someone's going to fill this out. It needs to be done. There's an opening now. But right now, there is a guy. There are two people already doing it. There's Pinball PCB, which is Co-Hut Electronics out of Dallas, Texas. He does a wonderful job. He does NPU and driver board separates. and no more 40-pin connector. He does an actual ribbon cable. I just bought a set from him. Nice board. Very detail-oriented. Lots of LEDs to show status or whatever. And then there's another board that I think Kane's Arcade sells from a different place that does the same thing. But they're not an all-in-one board selectable by DiffSwitch. They're actually ROMs in the board. So it's not like you're all tech. There's no all-tech solution for Williams right now. There's ROMs. So no one has an all-tech. As long as there's a solution. But the 327 was an Altec. It was a Williams Altec. No one has that right now. So there's a gap for that, if someone can make that. We normally do the, you know, what did you do in the last two weeks, month, year, whatever. I've got to stop saying that, too. Oh, whatever? Yeah. Whatever, so, like. You don't listen and edit. I just give up after a while. You're your own worst critic, though. I throw the time. Well, no. Let's talk about that for a second. Yes, I am. But I'm listening to other podcasts in this non-rich pinball environment. Guys and gals, you're getting lazy. You starting to come down to where the bar is real low That where we are I going to talk about one show that is highly edited and well produced The Supersonic Super Show, where Christopher Franchi, the artist, him and Dr. Pinball. Dr. Pin, Mrs. Pin? Yeah, those people. Christian and, sorry, I can't remember her name. anyway she swears a lot does she swear a lot oh like a sailor like a sailor okay that one yeah and she's a school teacher that's weird hmm okay no it's an outlet okay well I guess you're all pent up from all the little brats we don't we don't swear but that's a whole different thing anyway we fly by the seat of our pants here no net but we don't swear too much no I didn't prepare any of this well I prepared it but Dave has no idea I'm not prepared I'm coming in the same block so I'm all good So, I... So, as well. God, another non sequitur. No, no one cares. It's fine. You're good. You don't do it like the other people do. You just do it once in a while. You're okay. I listened while waiting for you today, as well as yesterday, the Captain's Auction Warehouse out of somewhere in Southern California. those folks were at Indisc back in January picked up a bunch of stickers and stuff people were real nice and the auctioneer looked very familiar so I'm going to talk about a bunch of games I'm going to give you the opportunity to tell me remember it's an auction, remember we're in Southern California to give me a price alright hit me so here we go, first one I saw six million dollar man shot playfield but working. Alright, $1,200. Right on the nose. Wow, sweet. Here are two... I want comments first and then you tell me what the prices were because they were exactly the same. A Hook by Data East working and a Batman by Data East non-working. No, excuse me. Yeah, non-working. The trough wasn't working. Both games went for the same price. How much? $1,800. You're not even close. I'm too high? You're way low. I'm low? No way. $2,900. Oh, come on. I swear. Why? A hook? Yeah. Ugh, why? Well, that's why we're discussing this. Everybody else does. Everybody else does. Okay. How much is this? How much is that? Well, this is an actual auction, so these are hammer prices. I gotta raise my prices. And I love the, I'm sorry I don't know your name, but I'm going to give you props, and I'm stealing it. His tagline is, it's bright and tight. Bright and tight. Bright and tight. Come on, that's good. It's so hacky, though. It's great. I love it. It's bright and tight. What does that mean? It doesn't mean anything. That's what's great about it. Uh, Stern's Indiana Jones. That might be outside our... That's a little newer. That's, I think, 2003? 03, maybe? I have no idea. It said Stern. I figured some people would like it. How much do you think? Uh, $5,400. No. $4,100. Okay. Now we're going to get to... Not well loved. Now we're going to get to your wheelhouse. All right. They had both a Knight Rider EM and a Knight Rider solid state, both working. Both looked okay. They're pretty much the same price, so I'll give it to you if you get either one. $1,300. Too high. The SS went for $11,000 and the EM went for $1,200. Really? EM went for more? Yes. I'm not done. 8-Ball, the Fonzie machine. How much? That's growing in popularity. One bad display, but the game played. And it looked okay. How much? $2,200. No, way high. $1,200. That's cheap. These days, that game's going for big money. That's an auction. Meteor, working. $1,800. $1,500. Here's the one that I'm very curious about. Pac-Man. Bolly Pac-Man. Mr. and Mrs. Pac-Man? I said Pac-Man. Not a good game. I would say... You don't need to tell me that. It's screaming $1,300 to me. $1,900. Why? I said the same thing. A Supersonic. And I know you sold one and it was cheap. Give me the details on that Supersonic. Working, looked okay. It's hard to determine on video exactly how good the game is. $1,700. $1,400. We talked about Gorgar in one of our recent episodes. How much? So far, I'm high. I'm always high right now. Let's see. Gorgar. Gorgar is what? Is it working? Not working? Yeah, it looked like a working game. Working game. Again. $1,900. Close. $2,200. A little low, that one. Paragon. Paragon. $2,200. $1,900. I'm done. I was in the ballpark. I started looking at these prices, and I kept saying to myself, boy, my hobby didn't cost me a lot of money. I look at these prices and say, I should not invest in the stock market at all, and just should have plowed everything in pinball, because I can't pick stocks to save my life, but pinball, I've made a lot of good choices in pinball, like the $50 Xenon I bought years ago. I really want us to go... And the $170 Quicksilver about years ago. We have to conclude because we have to have some barbecue. We have to play a game. Yes. Before we end. Last thoughts before we end. I've been looking at our numbers. And we're number one. We're number one. No, no. Darn. Not those numbers. Okay. Our most popular game episodes. Number one. Stargazer. Number one. Number two. Good taste, people. Number two in closing fast. Fathom. Wrong. Number two. We didn't do too many of them. Yeah, what did we do with the other one? Quicksilver? Nope. Nope, that just got passed. what the fuck 8 ball deluxe nope we never really did a full program on that we didn't we kind of did we did a very small amount of games well we were ok I can't think of it Harlem Globetrotters really yes you know what I have someone I have two Harlems or did sold one for good money I just restored it up I got a guy that saw my YouTube channel of my Harlem and now he wants to buy my other one I have but it's my last one and I don't want to sell it We talked about it. I'm not going to use his last name, but we've talked about Mike. He couldn't give that game away. I wanted to buy that game. I said, Mike, some of the games. Well, I'm not sure. And all of a sudden, another friend of ours, he loaned it to his other friend of ours, and then the friend said, hey, I have your game. Can I buy it? Okay. Mike, I wanted that game. I could have sold my other one. I could keep yours. So we're going to conclude there. Now, I have a whole list of things here we could talk about if you'd like. Indulge me. Okay, let's talk about Meteor for a minute. Is it a coincidence that it just sounds like my hot dog? I'm not quite sure. I don't follow you on that one. It has that rising sound. Okay. And it sounds exact. I watched a Twitch broadcast. Well, has it ever increasing kind of background sound? Yeah, that... You know. making your ears bleed. It's kind of like Flash. Flash started that game. I said like. It's. Flash. But it works here. Remember in the movie Below the Planet of the Apes? Beneath the Planet of the Apes. When they're starting to do the mind meld. Oh boy. No, huh? That's the guy with the. Well, he pulled the masks off. They had the bum heads and they worshipped the bomb. Right. Okay, that Right, but when they're in the subway, they start, I don't know, doing the mind thing, and it's that kind of sound, and it makes an ear-splitting sound. Oh, wait, wait, wait a minute. Stop it! I can't understand you. You're all screaming at me at the same time. I can't stop it. He's right. He has only limited intelligence. I remember that. I love that movie. You wanted to talk about fiberglass playfields. Yeah. I've had it. So fiberglass playfields. Valley experimented back in the late 70s, early 80s with fiberglass playfields. Games such as they did a couple, oh, maybe a couple hundred of Mata Hari like that. That many? I think so. Maybe 100. Yeah, around 100-ish. Not quite sure how many. They did Metro Groundshaker. They did Speakeasy. I think Speakeasy was all. Well, we talked about that. I owned one of those. I did, too. And sold it off. Yeah, I liked the game back in the day, but I don't like it. Well, no, I only had the play field. I had the whole game. It wasn't. $20 play field. Went for $100. Beautiful. And that's years ago. Nice. What else? I think, oh, Harlem Globetrotters is one of those. So all those came from the mid to late 70s. They kind of experimented and had them in there. The beauty about that is the inserts never cup. Over all these years, the playfield looks perfect. It wears beautifully. It looks like it's made out of indestructium. There's no playfield wear, no insert cupping, none of that stuff. so they really wear well so I just wonder why didn't they go forward with it it must be because cost it must be because it cost too much versus wood I guess well I'm hoping that you and I get to play a few games tonight this is the first time Dave and I have been together recording in 6 months almost 7 months no 6 months no 5 months it was mid-March five months. Yes, is that movie, what was that movie? Before the Recent Unpleasantness. Robert De Niro said that line. Anyway, keep going. Bye, Megan. But you don't know where from It hurts to talk It hurts to talk And I can't even breathe I need drugs I need drugs Something that I choose from I don't know To go to the doctor Stay right here And watch the two Each look like a fool I feel down Down, down The Fancy's and Will's The Fancy's and Will's The Fancy's and Will's

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: d30ee9a7-0129-4a09-8d1e-d2b0e1b3eec2*