# Ep 124: Fair Warning, Scott's Ticked

**Source:** LoserKid Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2023-12-02  
**Duration:** 69m 50s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://zencastr.com/z/irAPFvc3

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## Analysis

Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss community toxicity around the Twippies awards, particularly regarding a specific individual's bullying behavior and threats. They address false narratives about changes to the awards, express frustration with annual drama, and pivot to discussing game rumors and leaks, exploring whether they're organic employee leaks or coordinated marketing campaigns designed to create FOMO before official announcements.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] A specific person has repeatedly threatened and bullied community members, including calling for doxing and targeting people's jobs. — _Scott Larson's extended rant about toxic behavior in the Twippies voting process; unnamed but presented as a known pattern within the community._
- [MEDIUM] The This Week in Pinball content creator database was taken down in response to toxicity. — _Josh states: 'which now doesn't exist anymore. It's been taken down.' Presented as fact but not independently verified in content._
- [HIGH] False narratives spread claiming content creators were being punished or that a 'positivity clause' existed for the Twippies. — _Both hosts confirm they interviewed Will Odding and Emoto who clarified no such changes were made; described as false narrative created over two weeks._
- [HIGH] Pinball game leaks consistently occur 2-4 weeks before official announcements, almost like clockwork. — _Josh states this as established pattern; both hosts agree this is the typical timeline._
- [MEDIUM] People at Stern Pinball have been fired or are at risk over game leaks; leak timing can pinpoint which employees are responsible. — _Josh: 'People get fired or fired over these leaks... if you look at the window of when the leaks are being released, it actually pinpoints the employees.' No specific examples provided._
- [MEDIUM] Jaws has been rumored for approximately two years. — _Josh: 'Jaws – it's been a rumor for two years.' Presented as known within community but not independently confirmed._
- [HIGH] James Bond 60th Anniversary was priced over $15,000 in a 'name-your-price' situation, making it unattainable for many buyers. — _Josh describes the pricing model as 'name-your-price situation' for an LE that significantly exceeded typical Pro/Premium price points._
- [MEDIUM] Early announcement of multiple games in advance could hurt sales by causing buyers to defer to upcoming games they prefer. — _Josh hypothetical: if Jaws announced before Venom release, collectors interested in Jaws would skip Venom purchases._

### Notable Quotes

> "You're a bully and you're a coward because you're doing it online, okay? And so the bottom line is, if that's what you wanna celebrate as a Twippies voter, then go ahead. I have zero interest in that level of toxicity in the hobby."
> — **Scott Larson**, ~7:30
> _Core statement of Scott's frustration; articulates why he's calling for elimination of content creator category from Twippies._

> "You're a succubus on people's souls. Okay?"
> — **Scott Larson**, ~10:45
> _Particularly vivid language expressing the perceived parasitic nature of the toxic individual's behavior on community wellbeing._

> "Get some therapy. That's what I want you to do. I want you to get some therapy and get over your narcissistic delusions."
> — **Scott Larson**, ~11:15
> _Final statement of Scott's rant; characterizes the person's behavior as narcissistic._

> "The thing that upsets me the most about all this, it's not – the drama is every year. So I guess I've become desensitized to it, which is kind of depressing, right?"
> — **Josh Roop**, ~12:00
> _Reveals desensitization to annual Twippies drama as a symptom of systemic community problem._

> "When you say – when you think Twippies and the number one thing you think of is drama over content creator, that's an issue. If you think Oscars and the number one thing you think of is Will Smith slapping Chris Rock, that's a problem."
> — **Josh Roop**, ~15:30
> _Frames reputational damage to Twippies awards as analogous to major negative publicity events._

> "People get fired or fired over these leaks... if you look at the window of when the leaks are being released, it actually pinpoints the employees."
> — **Josh Roop**, ~21:15
> _Raises serious allegation that game leaks jeopardize employee jobs and create traceable patterns._

> "I don't know how much I want to touch on this. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I know there are people in Chicago that work for people that listen to this podcast, okay?"
> — **Josh Roop**, ~20:45
> _Indirect warning to Stern employees about leak consequences; implies some listeners work for Stern._

> "Are we so rumor hungry in this hobby that we can't wait two weeks just to see a finished product? Two to four weeks?"
> — **Josh Roop**, ~23:00
> _Questions whether community FOMO obsession justifies leaks and potential job losses._

> "They use these tactics. But what I am saying is it's a common tactic in the industry, especially when you're trying to create an illusion of scarcity. And right now – we're going to get into this – but the pinball market has significantly cooled down."
> — **Scott Larson**, ~26:30
> _Connects leaks to deliberate scarcity marketing in context of cooling market conditions._

> "If they're like, well, I'm not really interested in Venom and I know that, again, allegedly, Jaws is coming out next and it's my dream theme. You're just going to say sayonara to Venom."
> — **Josh Roop**, ~30:15
> _Demonstrates how advance game knowledge directly cannibalizes current game sales._

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Scott Larson | person | Co-host of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; delivers extended rant about toxicity in Twippies community, specifically targeting an unnamed individual he characterizes as a bully. |
| Josh Roop | person | Co-host of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; attempts to provide measured perspective on leaks/rumors discussion while supporting Scott's toxicity concerns. |
| Loser Kid Pinball Podcast | organization | Independent pinball podcast; received critical emails about their Twippies episode coverage despite not being affiliated with This Week in Pinball. |
| Will Odding | person | Appeared on podcast to discuss Twippies changes; clarified that no positivity clause or ejection mechanisms were being implemented. |
| Emoto | person | Works behind scenes on Twippies organization; described as putting 'blood, sweat, and tears' into awards; collaborated on podcast appearance with Will Odding and Lucas. |
| This Week in Pinball | organization | Twippies organizer; content creator database taken down; hosts received criticism about coverage despite not owning/operating the awards. |
| Flippin' Out Pinball | company | Pinball distributor run by Zach and Nicole Minney; praised for customer service and accommodating new collectors; maintains lists of unreleased games. |
| Zach Minney | person | Owner of Flippin' Out Pinball; praised for standing up against toxicity; has been target of bullying; has livelihood at risk due to industry drama. |
| Kerry Hardy | person | Pinball content creator cited as example of someone who is provocative and brash about industry issues without being mean; praised by Scott for balanced approach. |
| Keith Elwin | person | Interviewed by Loser Kid in February about James Bond 60th Anniversary; revealed early details (four flippers configuration) that media reported as 'First Details on L1's Next Game.' |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer mentioned in context of game leaks, employee turnover related to leaks, and pricing strategies; allegedly involved in Jaws development. |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Mentioned in context of Pirates of the Caribbean announcement mistake with triple spinning disc feature that had to be walked back. |
| L1 | person | Implied designer/manufacturer who typically appears on Loser Kid podcast after releases; interviewed about James Bond 60th Anniversary; likely refers to specific designer role. |
| James Bond 60th Anniversary | game | Stern Pinball game released recently; priced in 'name-your-price' situation exceeding typical LE pricing; discussed as example of high-priced release affecting market. |
| Jaws | game | Game rumored for two years; allegedly upcoming L1/Stern release; rumors intensified 2-4 weeks before alleged announcement; theme on collector wish list. |
| Venom | game | Stern release that coincided with summer market lull; discussed as example of game sales potentially cannibalized by advance knowledge of upcoming preferred titles. |
| Godzilla | game | Stern game released approximately 1.5 years prior to podcast; mentioned as first machine for new collector introduced via Flippin' Out Pinball. |
| Pinball Expo | event | Mentioned in context of someone being banned from attending; incident related to community bullying. |
| Twippies Awards | event | Annual community recognition awards with 'People's Choice' voting; plagued by annual drama; content creator category identified as primary source of toxicity. |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Community toxicity and bullying behavior, Twippies Awards structure, drama, and governance, Game leaks and rumors timing, Marketing tactics and scarcity creation
- **Secondary:** Employee job security and leak consequences, Game sales cannibalization and release timing, Market cooling and pricing strategies, Content creator category elimination proposal

### Sentiment

**Negative** (-0.72) — Episode heavily weighted toward frustration and criticism. Scott's extended rant about community bullying and toxicity sets negative tone. Discussion of leaks and job jeopardy adds concern. However, balanced moments praising Kerry Hardy and Flippin' Out Pinball's service provide minor positive counterweight. Overall sentiment is one of exhaustion with recurring community problems rather than constructive optimism.

### Signals

- **[community_signal]** Unspecified individual repeatedly threatening, bullying, and allegedly doxing community members; behavior includes calling for job terminations and coordinating harassment campaigns. Pattern described as recurring and normalized. (confidence: high) — Scott's detailed rant: 'when you start threatening people... you have crossed a serious line... You're a bully and you're a coward because you're doing it online.'
- **[event_signal]** False narratives spread about Twippies changes including non-existent 'positivity clause' and content creator punishment mechanisms; This Week in Pinball database taken down, further fueling speculation. (confidence: high) — Josh: 'there's this false narrative created over the last two weeks that if you're not involved in the database of This Week in Pinball – which now doesn't exist anymore. It's been taken down.'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Hosts express severe fatigue with annual Twippies awards drama; describe becoming desensitized to toxicity as 'depressing'; call for elimination of content creator category entirely. (confidence: high) — Josh: 'the drama is every year. So I guess I've become desensitized to it, which is kind of depressing... we're really pushing for media to be gone because it creates so much drama.'
- **[community_signal]** Flippin' Out Pinball distributor praised for exceptional customer service, personal attention, and accommodating new collectors entering hobby; Zach Minney specifically noted for standing up to community bullying despite personal risk. (confidence: high) — Josh describes bringing new collector through Flippin' Out experience; Scott: 'Good for Zach Minney for standing up... he has been a target many times... this is Zach's livelihood.'
- **[design_philosophy]** Early announcement of multiple games in pipeline creates risk of sales cannibalization as collectors defer purchases to wait for preferred themes; demonstrated with hypothetical Jaws/Venom scenario. (confidence: medium) — Josh: 'if I know that Jaws is coming out next and it's my dream theme... you're just going to say sayonara to Venom... not every game – Venom... didn't sell as many as Stern would hope.'
- **[market_signal]** Pinball market described as having 'significantly cooled down'; manufacturers relying on leak-based FOMO tactics to drive sales in softer demand environment. (confidence: high) — Scott: 'the pinball market has significantly cooled down... they are going to use anything they can to sell product.'
- **[market_signal]** Game leaks occurring with consistent 2-4 week advance timing before official announcements; hosts debate whether this is organic employee leaking or coordinated marketing campaign to create FOMO and scarcity illusion. (confidence: high) — Josh: 'roughly about two to four weeks before it's shown, right?... like clockwork before the reveal... every release.' Scott connects to 'illusion of scarcity' tactics amid cooling market.
- **[community_signal]** Kerry Hardy identified as exemplary community personality who maintains critical/brash opinion style without resorting to bullying or mean-spirited attacks; contrasted favorably with unnamed toxic individual. (confidence: medium) — Scott: 'Kerry Hardy... you can have a very brash opinion about the industry but still be respectable about it... he has a way of being provocative without being mean.'
- **[personnel_signal]** Stern Pinball employees potentially at risk of termination due to game leaks; leak timing creates traceable patterns that can identify responsible individuals; specific warning directed at Chicago-area Stern employees listening to podcast. (confidence: medium) — Josh: 'People get fired or fired over these leaks... if you look at the window of when the leaks are being released, it actually pinpoints the employees... I know there are people in Chicago that work for people that listen to this podcast.'
- **[product_strategy]** James Bond 60th Anniversary priced significantly above typical LE pricing through 'name-your-price' model; price point creates barrier to entry for typical collectors who prefer Pro/Premium tiers. (confidence: high) — Josh: 'Bond 60th was... $15,000?... was more than that when it was a lot... name-your-price situation... it was just unattainable for a lot of people.'
- **[rumor_hype]** Jaws pinball machine rumored as next L1/Stern release; rumored status extends approximately two years; fits typical 2-4 week pre-announcement leak pattern. (confidence: medium) — Josh: 'Jaws – it's been a rumor for two years... again, allegedly, Jaws is coming out next.' Mentioned as fitting expected leak/reveal timeline.

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## Transcript

 thanks for tuning in to lose a kid pinball podcast we're on episode 124 i am your host josh rupe my co-captain as always scott larson and scott we've got some interesting information i don't know we got some interesting stuff we're going to talk about before we jump into that though it is getting that time of the season it's too quiet it's you know The sharks coming through the water maybe? You hear the da-da, da-da, da-da, da-da? Maybe. Maybe. Because I think another pinball release or two or maybe even three might be on the horizon in the next couple months. I mean, we've got Spooky sending stuff out to content creators. We have rumors floating about. We'll talk about later. If you want to get on these rumored lists, hit up Zach and Nicole Mini at Flip N Out Pinball. They are amazing. Their customer service is great. they're a company that goes the extra mile for you like i just zach does it all for me and i really appreciate what he does well okay i i actually have a personal plug i actually had a someone who went to residency with me who reached out and asked me if i knew anything about jurassic park so i had a discussion with him and i said yeah it's a great game and if you're looking for if you're looking for a game it is one of those games that the pro and the premium would really work. So he said, Hey, where do you get it? And legitimately, I just sent them a group message with Zach and Nicole and my friend. And of course he took the deep dive and went into pinball and now they got him a Godzilla premium that he's getting his first machine. And so they really were very, very accommodating to work with. Uh, they didn't immediately have a game, but they said they'd put them on the list of first refusal, and they were able to get that for them. So it was really nice to see that personal touch. That's awesome, man. I'm excited. That's another person in the hobby. Yep. Into the industry. So if you want to buy, hit up Zach and Nicole Many at Flip N Out Pinball. All their stuff is usually updated through their Facebook page. Go there and see what's on the list. They're always updating. So let's dive into it. So I'm going to give a fair warning before we get into this. I know the first couple of points aren't really on our notes. Aren't are hopefully they're not controversial because the last couple episodes we've done. Right. Sure. But we are going to give some thoughts on some of the current stuff coming up. If you're not much of a drama person, we're going to give our takes without trying to be dramatic. I don't know. I don't know. I don't think I can hold to that today, Josh. Well, fair warning. Scott is ticked. Okay. So like, like deep root level ticks. So what was that? Episode 80 when we had Zach and Dennis on. Yeah. Good cramming. Yeah. Only took another 40 episodes. All right. Before we get into that stuff though, Jack Guarnieri interview reactions. A lot of people loved it. A lot of people thought kind of business as usual. Jack was, was he stuck to talking points. I mean, really he stuck to very market friendly phrases. we tried to push him on a few topics that he could say something about if he chose to. He really chose to defer, which is fine. It's his prerogative. But yeah, it seemed like he was sticking to his typical talking points, which is great. It's typical Jack. Yep. And I thought overall it was good. There was some information there. A lot of people have gleaned some stuff from it. I appreciate the coverage from NAP and This Week in Pinball. it's really awesome that they pick up those interviews and run with it our next episode the Twippy episode I want to preface this because it's probably where some of the stuff is going to start coming in Will Odding a lot of people say it it's Odding, like an otter we had this discussion, I'm sorry I have to so Will asked to come on our show, which is totally fine it doesn't bother me one bit that he comes on the show And we talk about the Twippies because it's that time of year. And and it was a nice way to introduce it, by the way, just saying, hey, it's the season. These are some things. And we really do try not to take sides. Yeah, exactly. And so we'll reached out with Lucas and Emoto and we we want to get this all together. It was a great opportunity to talk about some of the changes going on, Twippy. And really, I felt like overall it was a great episode. Right. But Lucas is a great dude, and Emoto, she works so hard behind the curtain, so to speak. And she puts a lot into Blood, Sweat, and Tears into this. The interesting part, though, is the reaction we got to the episode. First of all, we're not really associated with This Week in Pinball. I know that we've had – Yeah, we're not on the committee. Yeah, we're not on the committee. We don't own any stock in the website. I don't know why we received emails upset that we didn't ask why there was a positivity change and why we didn't give certain coverage to certain people. They felt like they were neglected. And I just – I'm sorry. We were here to interview Will and what they are doing, what they think is best for the Twippy Awards. and in the last two weeks it's funny i feel like we haven't had any drama for 2023 right like it's been so far it's been pretty nice like it's pretty smooth sailing but it happens every year right like every year twippies get announced we had will on last year because he has to come on which is totally fine but it seems like there's always drama always and i i'm frustrated like i I don't know why you're barking at my door to tell you guys what should or shouldn't be done or who I should represent. I just – sorry. Like that's what we're here for is a platform to give a voice to the people that we enjoy listening to, I guess. But like if you like the Twippy's, cool, whatever. If not, you don't have to tune into it. That's my personal opinion. But there's been a lot of drama, and I just kind of want to address it. I don't know if I want to address it first or if Scott wants to address it first. Okay, my turn. Okay. The whole point of having an award show legitimately should be a celebration of the hobby. OK, it should be a way of bringing people into the hobby to celebrate the accomplishments, by the way, of the manufacturers and say these are the best products that are out there. I don't see Car and Driver magazine saying, hey, these are the best autos out there. But by the way, this is the best person who talks about those. OK, and the bottom line is I'm sick of it. I'm sick of it. And I'm sick of one person in particular. And I'm sorry that I cannot hold back. If you feel like your number one priority in life is to get a sticker on winning a podcast for pinball. We are such a small industry. You know what? Go for it, dude. You cross a line when you start threatening people. You start threatening to send your minions on them and to dox them and to put things out there. You have crossed a serious line, my friend. And I don't care if you walk things back and you try to – you continually do this. and I'm tired of you trying to pick fights and then walking away and saying, oh no, we're all cool. Okay, you're a bully and you're a coward because you're doing it online, okay? And so the bottom line is, if that's what you wanna celebrate as a Twippy voter, then go ahead. I have zero interest in that level of toxicity in the hobby. It's not about content creators. It's not about the best streamer out there. It's like I am actually calling for that to be completely eliminated from the Twippy because every year that becomes the focus. It should be the best game of the year. It should be the best designer of the year. It should be the best company of the year. Not some troll who gets off on trying to stir up toxicity in the hobby and to call for people's jobs. And I'm sorry if you're supporting this. You're part of the problem. If you're seeing someone who is in a fight on the street and you want to go and just look at that as opposed to try to defuse the situation, you're part of the problem. And so I'm calling on people to wake up, try to eliminate the toxicity in the hobby because that is not what it should be about. If that's what it is about, then my friend, do not come over to my house. Do not talk to me and pretend like you're my friend and then immediately like trash people on the background. There is no need for that. And the bottom line is you need to grow up because this is not junior high. OK, these are people's lives. These are people's hobbies. These are people's fans. And you know what? If that's all you want to do in your life is to pick fights and to cause angry people. An angry rant is what I'm giving right now because of your antics. and I'm not even going to specify you personally you know who you are and I'm not even going to call out all the numerous antics that you have done to many people personally including us including us and so you know what just crawl back under the hole that you came out of and just stay away because it is not helping people You're a succubus on people's souls. Okay? Tell us how you really feel, Scott. Rant done. You know what? Get some therapy. That's what I want you to do. I want you to get some therapy and get over your narcissistic delusions. Okay? I agree. And you know what? It just – it's really sad. I think the thing that upsets me the most about all this, it's not – the drama is every year. So I guess I've become desensitized to it, which is kind of depressing, right? Like that's really, really sad. But I think the thing that upsets me most is the false narrative because we had Will on. We had Emoto on. They clarified no one's getting like ejected from the Twippies. No one's – there's no positivity clause. They were very forthcoming that saying like it's going to be the same old, same old that it has been for years, right? Yeah. And there's been this narrative created over the last two weeks that if you're not involved in the database of This Week in Pinball, which now doesn't exist anymore. It's been taken down. But everyone, all the content creators are not punished because of one person. Hey, well, then you're so toxic that they just decided to shut everything down. Good for you. You know, I hope you get a big old gold star on your butt. but my point being is is like there's this false narrative going around and and it doesn't help anyone no and and really it only creates more of a toxic and negative environment you know like it makes no sense because all this was clarified two weeks ago like it's all it's just it's all false narrative yeah if you want to be if you want to be mean then that's the baseline of your personality okay and you're only you're only serving yourself again get therapy yes so like i agree with scott we we've talked to will actually about this we've talked to a handful of people behind the scenes i really we're really pushing for media media media should be gone because it it just it's negative it detracts from what the whole purpose of it and it's not just been this year i mean i know that we're talking about every year we talk about this i don't let me give you some behind the scenes it's not because you know we're not we're all losers right like there's only one winner right it's the fact that it creates so much drama so much negativity and toxicity around the what has got to be the best year or best part of the year in my opinion like this is this is when i go out and i give more i help more like i'm already helping and stuff during the year but like i'm actively that's like on my mind of like things are slowing down in work and like you're spending more time with family and and it should be all positivity and good vibes right and it just it isn't and you and i we dealt with this from the beginning like i remember when yeah from the beginning yeah from like 2020 when we we weren't on the nominated list for for this week in pinball podcast of the year whatever it is we didn't care but all of a sudden we got thrown into the the conversation because we won the pinball industry award not even like 24 days later before they even did the twippy awards and so it was fodder to talk about like how flawed of a system it is and yada, yada, yada. Okay, in fairness, I will say the Twippy is the People's Choice Awards. Okay, and so the way the forum is set up, and I have no problem with this. The way the forum is set up is people hop online and they place a vote. Correct. So it's fine. We didn't really do much active campaigning, and so it didn't surprise me that we weren't on the list that year. but what i got personal calls january 1st yeah like on a holiday of for multiple people telling me i should call it patterson who was the owner of twip at the time at the time and shoo him out and i was like no because that's not that's not our that's not our role that's not my style yeah and if we were in this for the awards we would have stopped doing this a long time ago you know I'm saying apparently in 2021, we would have called it quits. Yeah. So just, just, just get rid of it. Just get rid of that part. Yeah. Because that's the only, and I guarantee you when people think of the Twippies, they think of the toxicity around the content creator category. Yep. I'm sorry. This is okay. I like doing this and I know Josh likes doing this. This is not our day job. No. Okay. But you know, it is some people's day job. And when what you are – when a stupid trophy that drives you to do toxic things to people personally when it's online is – or in person. Of course, this person doesn't act in person. But online – I'm sorry. That is online terrorism because you are affecting their mental well-being. I just – I don't know what else to say. Here's the sucky part about all this. This is the same attitudes and stuff we've seen for years now. You know, we don't talk about this for – because it never changes, right? Well, we don't like getting the spotlight. This is one of the few times where I'm giving the spotlight to a toxic element that needs to be lanced like a boil. That's – that was quite the visual. Thank you. Yeah. But my point being, though, is it's like if you want change, start with yourself. Yeah. Like if you're sick and tired of it, stand up. Like a lot of people are afraid to stand up because the bullying just happens to them. And then there's like, well, they don't want to be a target. I've personally heard people who said, I don't want to stand up because I don't want to be another target of this bully. Yep. It's not one person. It's multiple. It's constant. Remember when they got banned from Expo last year? I heard multiple people saying they wanted to stand up, but they didn't want to be a part of it because they want to be a target. And good for Zach Many for standing up. Yeah, and this is us just talking as a friend. He has been a target many times, completely. And this is Zach's livelihood. Yeah. And Zach is a good distributor. You can have your own opinion about personalities and the way the way things are done. That's fine. And and you can have opinion about Josh and me. I don't really care about that. I just hope that if we've repeatedly said if you need if you need help, like we're there for you. If you need help, reach out and look for things. But if you're if you're just an online assassin, just go away. Yeah. My personal opinion, because I hear a lot of this, that the truth is spoken through this podcast and whatnot. You know honestly you know who a really good analyzer of the industry who gives a good poignant opinion that is for the people but still is respectable about the industry is carrie hardy yeah carrie pretty good yeah seriously i like carrie carrie's a good fit and carrie carrie's got quite the following he it shows that like i feel like he's very balanced he may like go off about topper prices well okay carrie carrie is irreverent and he is and and it's there's nothing wrong with having that type that's that's not my personality it's not josh's personality but carrie that's his personality and he's he has a way of be of being provocative without being mean yeah you know that that's his personal opinion yep and i think that's the way the reason i bring carrie up we love love you carrie you're a good dude thanks for coming on the show a few episodes back i think the reason i bring this up is because it shows how you can have a very brash opinion about the industry but still be respectable about it right and and calling out maybe something that needs to be called out but doing it in a respectable way right hey we call people out too i agree not to the same level but it's but you know I'm just I'm just I'm tired of it I'm tired of mean people mean people suck sorry mean people do suck and that's why we usually don't talk about this because then the mean people you know yeah end up in our lives I don't feed the trolls yeah I don't feed the trolls all right are we done with that we're done move on one quick question I will not speak of him again okay current quick question though all this feuding all this ridiculousness it's being plastered on pin side on Facebook on whatever anyone can get their hands on to plaster all this drama negativity is it harming the brand of twippy just quick thought uh i think it does give people a kind of a knee-jerk feeling like when you say when you think twippy and the number one thing you think of is drama over content creator that's an issue if you think oscars and the number one you think of is Will Smith slapping Chris Rock. That's a problem. Yeah. Did it bring eyeballs? Yeah. Did it bring attention? Yeah. Not positive. No. And I know all publicity is good publicity. Not always. No. I worked in radio. That was the thing, right? All publicity is good publicity. But in this situation where you're trying to do something that's prestigious that honors the hobby and the industry... I just I feel like it's a black eye more than it is a gold star. Right. It's like having a charity event and you have the one person calling out a charity for what they're not doing or just being mean about the charity or whatever they're doing. Yeah. So let's move on on the list. Do we want to talk Jaws rumors? Well, OK, so let's I don't want to I don't want to deal with them specifically, but we can talk about rumors of Jaws and really any pinball machine rumors, because this happens regularly, right? Oh, every release. Yeah, and so go. Roughly about two to four weeks before it's shown, right? Yeah, the only one that seems like it didn't, like that totally took me by surprise was when they released Mustang. Yeah. It was like, here's Mustang. We're like, what? I don't know. I remember when they revealed Avengers and none of us were like from L1 and it was like. Yeah, that was interesting. yeah we weren't expecting that because of the way that they had released stuff around that time of year okay thought thoughts about leaks i'll let you go first okay i just really want to make a couple quick points the funny part is so we interviewed keith that one back in february yeah yeah yeah he had just had a brand new release at that point that was uh james bond 60th anniversary we talked about a ton of things about bond it was amazing it was a very fun episode we always ask keith like tell us anything about your next game right because it's i guess people are intrigued he told us there was four flippers three on one side one on one side and the articles the next day were first details on l1's next game yeah we don't celebrate for some odd reason we don't celebrate the current game out like we're not satisfied with what's released right like the rumors jaws it's it's been for that's been the rumor for two years so yeah and if it's not great i'm sure it'll be fine but that's that's been on a lot of people's wish list for a while and been linked very heavily correct i don't know if it was because bottom 60th was what was it like 15 no it wasn't 15 000 it was more than that when it was a lot it was uh it was a name your price it was like unattainable for a lot of people at yeah at a lower they usually go for a pro or premium right like this was just and maybe that was the other thing too but like back to the point the articles read first details on l1's next game it didn't talk about like his current game yeah and even the photo for for it is the le for godzilla which had been released right like a year and a half before you know what i'm saying like yeah i i don't know what this fascination is with rumors in this hobby and it's really like i joked because obviously you know we'll have l1 on after after his next release like we typically do and i'm like maybe we should just joke and be like no one wants to hear about your current game you just released yeah let's talk about your next one let's talk about your next one because obviously like you have a hit here and everyone's seeing this but like what about the next one you know i'm saying like it's just the other thing too i don't know how much i want to touch on this but i'm gonna i'm gonna i know there are people in chicago that work for people that listen to this podcast okay i'll put it that way okay sure people get fired or fired over these leaks they can yeah they can and some of them think they're very smart with how they're releasing them but if you look at the window of when the leaks are being released it actually pinpoints the employees so i i just want to forewarn you like you might want to we're not going to speculate by the way which uh which people because we don't know who they are i will exactly we don't know who they are but we've heard of that timeline i'm okay timeline and they have a good idea of who releases these leaks every time sure and i think the frustrating part to me is like i have friends in the like i've made friends all across this hobby right and and it just it sucks that people's jobs are in jeopardy for a game that's releasing in two to four weeks right we can probably safely assume that right like you know what assume means and we can't we've got to be the first to the gate with the information of the game before the company releases it like why what's the point what's is are we so rumor hungry in this hobby that we can't wait two weeks just to see a finished product two to four weeks i don't think it's it's not unique to us it's not unique to pinball okay this these are things that happen industry-wide yeah like in any industry really because if people are talking about it then hopefully it uh it it increases interest i guess anticipation i mean this is the whole point of having like movie trailers and and things that people say hey that looks like a good movie i want to i i'm interested in it or hey there's a car coming out and i'm interested in that too there's nothing wrong with looking at what is coming up. Okay. It is common. Another point is I'm slightly skeptical about leaks and rumors because there are two, there are two ways that rumors and leaks happen. It is someone who is in the inside of the industry and they want to leak something out to say, Hey, this is a cool thing you guys should hear about it okay yeah there are also marketing campaigns that will use leaks okay yeah true and and so there are ways that they will strategically leak things out and this happens in sports too where uh it's you you hear hey an unnamed source says that this athlete is doing this or is you know against the organization or with you or whatever so the question i have usually when a leak comes out is who benefits from this because if the leak comes out that it actually benefits the company there are questions about, okay, well, was the company itself a source for the leak? Yeah. Or if, and I'm using the athlete analogy, but a lot of times when you hear about negotiations with contracts between athletes and teams, and if an unnamed source comes out and says something, you need to say who benefits from it? Because if this makes the team look bad, then you have to suspect someone from the athletes, entourage, the group, PR, whatever. They're the one leaking it. If it benefits the company, then that. So the question I have is, do you feel that these leaks are part of a marketing campaign that companies have? But or do you feel that this is some guerrilla tactic that an employee is having? Because I don't think it has to be one or the other. I think there are different things. I just – and I don't disagree with you. It's like a paparazzi. The paparazzi, they get calls from the actor's agents to say, hey, they're going to be walking on the beach in their shorts. And so they go and take pictures of their latest body after having a baby or body after losing 40 pounds for a role or something like that. So it is publicity. and and let's be honest like we've already mentioned it earlier in the podcast like this stuff gets leaked two to four weeks almost like clockwork before the reveal right like every time except for there there are a couple of times it doesn't happen right so you're right so either there's consistently employees leaking this information in a girl stuff gorilla type fashion for marketing or it is a planned campaign and it is leaked on purpose to a certain source to then be dripped feet out to to create encourage or encourage fomo that's what's been coined you know fear of missing out and so i don't know i just i don't disagree with you but i don't agree with you i'm really okay which which is fine i i'm just saying that company and i'm not saying you know stern jjp anything like that they use these tactics but what i am saying is it's a common tactic in the industry especially when you're trying to uh to create an illusion of scarcity and right now we're going to get into this but the pinball market has significantly cooled down yes so they are going to use anything they can to sell product so does this help sell product does it not help sell product However, the one argument that I can think of that you could easily counteract everything I just said is they're not allowed to take money for games that aren't announced. Yeah, that's true. So if there's – and sometimes this can hurt games too. And for example – and this was not a leak. This was a marketing campaign when Jersey Jack released Pirates of the Caribbean. And on their promotional information, the first 30 seconds was about a triple spinning disc. Yeah. Which sounded cool, but it really was kind of a marketing thing. It wasn't really anything that had to do with the gameplay, but it was a cool feature just visually. And then when they had to pull that back or decided to pull that back, it did affect game sales. Yeah. So they can work both ways. but if you can't if you have rumors for jaws and they still can't take money for them then you could argue this does nothing to help them well and and one thing that because we've talked about this behind the scenes with with different people as well video games get announced like a year in advance right like or at least or two unless you're nintendo that's like three months before or four months before or years before it just depends but with pinball like we keep the title so under wraps do you think it would benefit a pinball company i i get you can't you can't announce like a year and a half and out in advance if the license doesn't work out and you've announced hey back to the future stern's doing back to the future this is all speculation right so we announced that and then like two years later like the licensor and stern aren't meeting eye to eye right and they decide to drop it and it gets moved on to a different company right then stern's got like a black eye to say right or they just got to pretend like we don't have it anymore but we can't talk about who does you know what i'm saying oops yeah yeah but like four months before reveal or does that cut out the legs of the the that well i guess that cuts out the legs of the if in this case it is jaws if we were to announce jaws at venom's time well it is rumored to be jaws right correct sorry i haven't seen it you haven't seen it no i haven't like we haven't seen a lot of it like we we don't know anything on it so yeah as bandit from blue you would say i've been watching too much blue with the kids allegedly yeah allegedly well okay i'll put this out there let's say it's It's 2020. Okay. And they announce early that, hey, the next four games that are coming out are The Mandalorian, Godzilla, Rush, and James Bond. Okay. Okay. So here's where pinball is different. Pinball, people don't typically buy every game. But with a video game, releasing like a Mario Kart is not going to affect Mario Wonder. Yeah. Because it's $60. And that's – And they're entirely different game styles. Right. It's not going to affect things. You're racing versus platformer. Yeah. Yeah. But yes, it will because there are people who are saying, well, I don't know what's coming out. so I have money and I want to buy a machine. What's available now? Yeah. But if they're like, well, I'm not really interested in Venom and I know that, again, allegedly, Jaws is coming out next and it's my dream theme. You're just going to say sayonara to Venom. You're not going to worry about it. Yeah. So, yes, it actually would not benefit them to release these things early Because if you look at the interest of a game, as soon as it's released, it's really hot or it peaks or something like that. And not every game. I would say that Venom, probably because it was rumored for so long. And when it came out, it really coincided with a lull in the market. It was the dreaded summer release. And it didn't sell as many as I would think Stern would hope. so anything that could possibly take away from that is not a good thing and we've talked about it before does the elvira like a red lip kiss edition or whatever or the jurassic park 30th edition yeah does that affect yeah it does actually because there are people who are like well i i don't know about venom but i know jurassic park's really good and i can get like a an exclusive version of some sort. And so the, the 30th, I think did affect the venom sales and not in a good way And if they knew that Elwynn right now everyone chasing Elwynn right They are If you look at just by the Stern production schedule, Elwynn's first game just barely went off production. They're still making Jurassic Park. They're still making Avengers. They're still making Godzilla. And they will be for the next 10 years which richie's only been gone for like a year and a half and none of his games are on the line nope no it's bull is any of borg's because rush isn't is that rush isn't on the line either so borg was his most that's his most recent that's his most recent game yeah and i mean james bond is still being made godzilla is still being made i'm sure they'll still make the mandalorian because it has the star wars yeah but yeah turtles is done Stranger Things they did bring back so they can still vault stuff or semi-vault it I guess, I mean Stranger Things isn't really a vault so there are ways of bringing it back but you look at their production schedule and it is obvious that Elwynn's games are selling the most they're ones that are in demand if you're not aware of how this works so they'll produce a game for a certain amount of time, so let's use Jurassic Park as an example We'll put it online for a couple weeks. And then once it goes off, it goes to distributors. And then distributors then sell all those orders. And then if they want more Jurassic Park, they say, hey, Stern, we have like five, six, seven more people that want Jurassic Park. And then that happens. That grows globally. And then Stern then goes off those numbers and say, hey, this is supposedly the demand we have. We're making these games. And so what that means is the reason all these L1 games are still online is because distributors, that's what they're asking for is these games. Right. sorry we're shifting our next state of manufacturing so we're pretty much into it right now right i i want i guess another thing but okay but the bottom line do you think that do you think that rumors help or hurt because maybe we have different takes on this i think it depends when they're released after our discussion right now it really depends if if allegedly Jaws rumors dropped before Venom, it could tank Venom, depending on varying factors. You release rumors right now, two to four weeks before we see the game, it could create some hype, especially if there's a lull in the line. Yeah, it's funny, because I watch a lot of people on Facebook and stuff like that. I really don't like to comment on these, because I don't know it's hard to convey message through text right but like the way it works and this is what this is what scares me I really think Stern's Stern's way smarter and more involved in what they do right but I I really personally me I don't buy le's but you gotta drop that number from a thousand to five hundred I think with how rapidly people aren't buying anymore and your le's are your day one shot of adrenaline to your distributors and your dealers, right? That is like the quick cash flow that your distributors need. High margin. It's the high margin. Correct. And that's what helps put product on the shelf because let's be honest, like day one sales are awesome, but a lot of pinball slow burn. You have new people coming into the hobby. You have people that can't buy the game right now. They're waiting for it down the road. They do want to buy, like I'd prefer to buy new off the shelf versus like figuring out what the heck this guy did to the game. Like a lot of people are usually pretty nice to their games. but not so much, not so much, or we've all got that game, right? We get at home. We're like, what the heck is this? What happened? Like it worked when I was playing it for the five minutes I was in that guy's house. Now I've got at home, something's not right. And they dig into it and there's, there's little gremlins that have been built themselves in the game. Right. So, but point being is, is like pros and preemies sit on the shelf. Like they might, they might go out door day one, but they're not as much as what Ellie's do. Right. Right. but the problem is is we we're making le's like every every month every other month yeah you just you just said it like jurassic park 30th elvira's blood red kiss we've had i'm not i guess stranger things was another le but like there's been several le's like i'm surprised actually that stranger things didn't have kind of a you know like season six like a lucy edition or something Yeah. Yeah. I'm surprised. But, okay, these games are $13,000. Yes. Okay. And, yes, I know people who can buy these games just they're on the every LE list. Yeah. Okay. However, the majority of the people who buy games are in the pro to premium range. and a lot of them are you know with the economies the way they are right now they're looking for deals and used games and right now supply has eclipsed demand yeah well and and i think also too is like so with le people that usually buy money is usually not an object right like it could be with some but i i swear like if there's that person i don't know if you know them but it's like they get every single le every release i know i know two who are on the right of first refusal le list like they just and and it's not like i you know i i talk to enough people but i know a lot more people who are buying who are deciding between a pro and premium than the people who are deciding well should i get this le or a premium but the point being is is like to these people money isn't really an object right like right so what are you offering in an le you're you're offering something that a lot of people can't obtain problem is is when you're making how many of alvire additions did we decide after this between four between super le the regular le the blood red kiss the 40th anniversary and they were all 50 to a thousand or 500 to a thousand per run right well yeah it's kind of around around that so let's let's roughly guesstimate about 1500 le's out there between the original run it's got to be more than that so also with the super le whatever you want to call it i mean it's in an industry where honestly i mean look at spooky's numbers you know they're producing about 1500 per game now anywhere from a thousand to fifteen hundred depending on so you're not really scarce at that point right like you're yeah it's i just become the well this is why i'm i'm speculating that jjp went away from the limited edition i think they actually shot themselves in the foot with the giraffe with the guns and roses limited edition because they're saying hey it's limited Now, I don't think anyone really cares. They basically immediately said, OK, that's their equivalency of a premium pinball machine. And the and so for them to transition over to the platinum edition or something like that is smart because it allows them the flexibility to run as many as they want or go back to the well. And I don't think that marketing gimmick for the limited edition really helped out anyone feeling exclusivity in owning a Guns N' Roses. The collector's edition, yes, but the other ones, I don't know what the answer is because it seems like the demand for pinball has actually plateaued. I don't think it's gone down because I don't know people who are just like, oh, I just kind of moved on and I'm not really into pinball anymore. Yeah. But I know a lot of people who they're in my category where they say, yeah, I could buy a game, but I'd have to sell a game. Yeah. Because they no longer have the space. They have maximized their space. Yep. So if – Which runs into like – because I love all my games I have. Right. So you got to show me something better than what I got. And that's the challenge. And this is where we got into, we were talking about them doing what basically every industry does, right? Every industry, like a car industry, they say, hey, we are closing out the 2021 models. Come down, New Year's Eve, get a blowout, get a huge deal. New ones are coming in. OK, yeah. I also understand that pinball doesn't get dated as much as like cars with different releases, because you can say that a pinball machine that was, you know, Lord of the Rings, it's 20 years old, right? people still are like oh it's still fun even even quirky and gimmicky with the limitations at the time but because they have started dipping into that well and saying hey we're gonna blow out some of these old ones it does cool people off a little bit and the the market is it is a oh how can i say it's it's it's okay like a parliament if you know much about politics outside of the United States. A lot of it is parliament. So it's different groups getting together and they all say, well, this is my issue. Boom. This is my issue. Boom. And for them to get a majority in the parliament, they cobble some of these together. Okay. Now that is like sales because there are going to be the group of LE buyers. There's going to be the group of premium buyers, the group of pro buyers, the group of new in box buyers, the group of used buyers, the group of routed. So you see where I'm going with all these different segments. Yeah. But you are moving the needle a little bit when you start saying, Hey, you may be interested in that game. However, if you don't buy it now and wait till the closeout, then you could probably get it for $800 cheaper. Yeah. That doesn't help because you're basically saying, okay, there's going to be a, you're setting an expiration date on the ability to collect a premium price for that game. And that price does that. The price expectation will translate across all titles. We all know all titles aren't created equal. But how they have tried to balance that out is not all equals are produced in the same amount. If you want a Metallica, you can find a Metallica. If you want a Mustang, you may not be able to find a Mustang because they didn't make a lot of them. And so there still is that. And there's a reason why Stranger Things was so expensive for a while is because they cut the run short because it wasn't selling as much. Yeah. And then it picked up steam. Deadpool was kind of the same way, actually. Deadpool didn't sell a lot. And then people said, oh, well, this is a this is a fun game. And then they were done. And so the the scarcity, you know, this is economics, right, kids? So that's how that works. But when you start teasing that, you're moving those groups of people for the new inbox people to say, now you're creating a new segment and you're creating a closeout buyer segment where they're willing to wait. And that does have some long-term ramifications. having extra le options also affects the le market because there are people i i am not one of these who says i want to buy something because i don't want other people to have it okay yeah but there are people who are like oh well when spooky spooky ran on this forever oh there's only a hundred at America's Most Haunted. There's only 250 Rob Zombie or whatever they were. Yep, you're right. It was 125, 250, 500. Anybody who's played America's Most Haunted knows it's not that great of a game. It's not. It was a good first effort. Okay, it was a solid, glorified homebrew. As Martin would say, it's a pinball machine that exists. Yes. Well, okay, it's not terrible. No, it's not. It really isn't. Okay, but it's not the same level as other things. But there are people who will buy them because they – it's like, oh, this is something cool that other people don't have, which I don't really care if that's your thing. Go ahead. To be honest, I've never played an America's Most Haunted. I've played it. It's OK. And that's not for now. I'm wanting to try it. Everyone I've seen has been broken. Yeah. OK. OK. But let's just – OK. We know Spooky can have some – especially the early games can have some – Yeah. They were starting to come out. I don't know me. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, but what I am saying is that it's not like the first game that they produced that wasn't limited was TNA. And that does start affecting their ability because some people are like, oh, well, if I can get it anytime, then there's no rush. But the limited should have some sort of urgency associated with buying it. Some FOMO. Some FOMO, absolutely. And it does affect that a little bit. Now, the reason why I don't care too much about the LE – I actually like the Jersey Jack option where you're basically able to get an LE version that has all the bells and whistles without being limited by amount. like like the the premium i probably would like to get some of the bells and whistles on the premium like you know hey if i could buy a premium that had pre-installed art blades pre-installed shaker motor you know pre-installed expression lighting just all that kind of stuff i would totally do it and i actually like the art package on godzilla for the premium better than the than the le so and same thing for star wars actually star wars i didn't like the millennium falcon edition because i loved the empire strikes back theme that was on the premium and actually iron maiden is the same way okay the the premium is the power slave album which is their that's the zenith of their popularity and so i wanted that art package and i will say the you know the the aces high trooper package was still really cool for the le but i wanted the premium so that being said i just want to be able to get all the bells and whistles without being limited i guess but there are some people who aren't going to pull the trigger if they can't have that limitation true all right i feel like we've we've wrapped this one into a typo So are there any danger zones we're toying with with the way the industry is going, though, at this point? Absolutely. There are – the reason why they allowed to have these blowout prices is because there were a lot of dealers that had – they had their money tied up in existing stock. Yeah. And they were not – Yeah, they still do. and they weren't able because they kind of caught up and the world changed at least for a little bit under covid because people weren't traveling and so they actually had this extra money that they wanted to bring stuff home that was fun so people were buying these things at an incredible rate and therefore there's no reason why a a premium you should buy it and then be able to sell it for more than you bought it for. That means that there's a margin. It's like a scalper ticket. Okay. There's a reason why, you know, if a ticket is worth $4,000, you shouldn't sell it for $200. Like that. And really, you know, the, by the way, I hate to break it to you. A lot of those reseller ticket things are actually from the actual artists and selling them at those prices. Shocker. Yeah. but that's what it should be, right? I shouldn't be able to go buy a Porsche for $20,000 and sell it for 90. Porsche should sell it for 90 if that's what it's going for. Exactly. But what it does say is that the, the false escalation of prices during COVID are over Oh okay Not false I would say the covet affected prices are over yeah so and you and i you are in this hobby well before covet like i remember right before covet you could almost any jjp you keep getting away from about six to nine thousand dollars yeah that's just it's what it was most sterns were in about the mid fives on the pros uh you know yeah premiums were about 6,500 about then yeah yeah but then granted the prices were lower than two like a pro was 62 63 at that point a premium was 75 i want to say yeah so i mean coming out of covid we're going into some interesting territory yeah because even if you look pre-covid it's hard to have data points to tell you hey this is kind of where we're heading because we're so different price wise okay But this is where the problem is because right now I just – okay, I just pulled up inside. I didn't even search for anything. I just pulled up inside and I searched and I just said, show me the market, okay? Okay. So – Show me the market. Show me the market. Okay. So Stranger Things Pro with UV kit. How much do you think? $6,500. $5,400. Oh, wow. Okay. Venom Premium. five oh okay no i'm sorry you said premium i apologize uh 7500 8700 okay 8700 but still okay but okay but that's the the msrp is 9500 yeah okay sorry so that's a drop uh iron maiden uh premium 8800 okay and that's for a game that's an l1 game that's not being produced anymore Yeah. So there's Star Trek Pro, $5,900. So my question is – we're talking about a new box. Do you think – because our used market, especially our Bally Williams, has jumped significantly. Do you think those come down? But since they're not being made anymore, do they stay high because this is kind of what the market's shifted to on the used market? I they will sell for that. They're not going to lower prices again because they'll they'll just modify their their manufacturing stamp. But they may not get 100 or 200 bucks. But we have actually talked about this, that if you adjust for inflation there, they're actually pretty much where they were. Yeah, really. The the challenge is going to be, though. Are they going to be able to manufacture the same amount if the distributors are still stuck with a lot of stock that they're not able to move? Yeah, I think really, honestly, the biggest telltale of the market is going to be with this next release. I think it's going to tell you a few different things. Either your consumer base is holding out for a specific product, whether that be a license or a designer team. Let's say the whole team because let's be honest, L1 is great. Okay, and we're just doing the umbrella, right? It's an L1 release. Okay, an L1 team release. So there's a lot of varying factors that go into it. I'm really intrigued to see what happens with this next release. And it's not because of the rumors of it allegedly being Jaws or whatever else comes along with those rumors. My thing is, is like we've seen the industry do some pretty wild things in this last six to 12 months. And it was like we hit a crescendo, I want to say probably in the spring. And it seems like as you're pointing out, like the Guardians of the Galaxy, I pulled it up. we've got a guardians of the galaxy volume two refinery edition with the topper pro for six grand that's a refinery edition wow yeah dude that's that's something else oh yeah that's yeah okay i just barely saw that yeah and so that's a whole lot of purple and this is i mean guardians of the galaxy have sold so well they've done even though they said we're done running them they're like we're doing one more run but okay i'm really hoping that they just took it all with a purple light because everything is purple on that game yeah shadows are coming down there in the mid-sixes now they're down to 55 so uh i i think it just it just all depends on what you're looking for it it does it's uh i i'm just hoping that i'm concerned about the long-term health for some companies because stern stern is going to be fine they're still making excellent games they they have been in the industry long enough to Carl Weathers ups and downs yeah if they if let's be honest if they have a turd three months later they can move on yeah if they have one falls flat absolutely or they can dip back into the well like they've been doing Some other companies, though, I'm concerned because you're competing with Stern. Really, everybody is competing with Stern. And the benchmark right now is Godzilla at 9,500. Well, I'm not even worried about manufacturers. I am worried about manufacturers. I'm worried about distributors. We created such a weird buying frenzy in these last couple, two, three years. And a lot of people joined in to be a distributor in the last two or three years. and it's not it's never been like this where you just you don't have to have products sitting on shelf and all of a sudden the last 6-12 months you do it's overwhelmingly i mean that's why we that's why they've said hey you can sell rush you can sell led zeppelin you can sell i'm still kind of shocked by the way that they like i thought the demand was still enough for rush that they would have run more but that's not just the weirdest thing like it's like it was It won Game of the Year last year. Yeah, it's really weird. And the matter of the fact is, too, it won Game of the Year, and they had stopped running it by that point. Yeah. It's weird. I will say, granted, pinball is driven by themes, and Rush is a very specific demographic. You're telling me it's a niche theme and a niche hobby? A niche industry? My favorite was one time Jeff Rivera was talking about Iron Maiden. And he talked about Iron Maiden's music. And the funny thing is I grew up on Iron Maiden. I grew up on Rush. And so I'm a fan of both of them. And I own both of the machines. But he talked about Iron Maiden is like Rush took drugs and learned how to play metal. And he's like, I can't stand it. I can't stand it. So it was funny. But so I totally get it. And there are people who sold Iron Maiden because they couldn't stand the music. Yeah. Here's something that is interesting, though. With Rothrills, you know how we're getting more insider connected, right? Yes. Okay. Rothrills, they sell Big Buck Hunter now at home, and there's two versions you can buy. Okay. You can get a standalone version or you can get a subscription version. Okay? The standalone version, it's kind of cost prohibitive. You pay a lot of money and you're buying the content, but you're only – you can only play like five or six of the games or whatever. But – I thought it was like you get access to it, but you have to buy the – like you have to renew the license. Well, you can actually buy some outright, but it's kind of a ridiculous amount. It's like Terminator for $1,500 or something. And really, as long as you keep hitting the start button on a home game, you can blast through one of those games in five, ten minutes. Yeah. Okay? And it's the same game. It's not like there's – the ball's live, right? so would you ever think that stern would go down that rabbit hole of having a subscription-based thing for a home game i don't know they hired a guy from disney that worked for disney plus services so he he he knows his way around subscription-based services yeah i have is the The internet connectivity, there's some really great things about it. There are also some dark possibilities. It would just be really weird because what do you sell? It would have to be DLC, right? It would have to be DLC. But you can't just inhibit. It's not like there's features that you could leave out of the game physically and then put them in later except for maybe like UV kit on Stranger Things. It kind of do with the topper though. like i know it's like silly it's like goat mode or whatever on jurassic park but it's more of a novelty than it is uh okay right now yeah i don't know you're towing a fine line and honestly i'm gonna leave that up to stern i'm not even expecting it because i'm not giving ideas i'm just wondering where they where it's going it's a possibility yeah so okay let's get to we're over our hour I talked way too long and I ranted way too long. I apologize for nothing. Before we finish this, if you want to get a hold of Scott, I'll get that information here in a little bit. We promised that we would be giving away, or not us, I guess JJP. JJP supplied us with a banner so we can give it away. We appreciate their effort and Ken being the marketing guy, great guy. yes so so ken cromwell has provided us with an elton john banner he will provide it's not been shipped out yet yes but to save time we did the trying right before the podcast and luke konecki i hope i said your last name right it's got to be konecki like in greece maybe okay i'm kidding i think it's konecki yeah so congratulations to you i will be contacting you via the way that you contacted me. And congratulations. We'll work out how to get that to you. And we appreciate everybody who entered, by the way. Yes. Thank you so much, everyone. There was an amazing amount of response to our contest. Like, it just blew up. And we do appreciate people reaching out. Like, I don't want this whole thing to be negative. Like, there has been some great emails in this past couple weeks. I do want to bring an update, too. Larry DeMar has been talking to me. He's been trying to find those home ROMs. there has been a lot of interest for those home runs like world cup soccer twilight zone he said if you want to get a hold of twilight zone one it is actually on planetary pinball's website so the people that own the rights to the bally williams stuff they have it posted there in a zip file so go ahead okay do what you need to do to particularly i can't burn it like it's a chip i don't know how to burn it find someone that can burn it for you there's someone nearby i know that If someone knows how to burn the home version for Twilight Zone, get a hold of me because I would love to have the home version. So you can get direct to Lost in the Zone. Absolutely. And like Larry was saying on the interview. Hey, if there's a home version of Black Rose, I'll take that too. He said that the way it works is it puts you into that mode, but then you start the game over and you get no points awarded. You get to explore the mode without essentially cheating the game. It's still cool. It's cool because not all of us can get to the end mode every game. I think it would just be fun to show people. Do we have any other closing thoughts before we wrap this up? No. I know I started with a downer. I really – a hot button issue for me is bullying. Like it really just – I have no tolerance for it. And so please be positive, help people out, and speak up for people if you feel like they are being bullied. like be their support staff because if if you're not calling them out on their bad behavior then it typically continues and it it it leads toward just condoning so i i apologize for nothing i i feel very strongly about that and i'm i really do want us to be a a fun area and maybe a diversion to your day and hopefully just something that we can experience pinball together we don't care what your background is what your income is what your orientation is what your religion is what your politics i don't care just come play pinball and be a good person like don't don't be toxic that's not a high level unless you're jamming your knee into the front of my corn door you're welcome to hang out with me yeah don't hurt my machines i'll escort you off the premises but seriously i mean this isn't just about one specific person this is about bullying and and really stand up yeah what else can you say to that point uh i see it too much online has made it worse yeah it really has and and i talk to my kids a lot about this there is a bravado that comes with online but if you have an issue there there are there are appropriate ways of dealing with it. Correct. And so I appreciate those that have reached out to me in the past privately so we could discuss it. I don't think posting it on Facebook. I mean, I guess. And deleting it later. If you want to get ahold of us, we are loser, keeping ball podcast at gmail.com. Oh, I just got my shoes by the way. I forgot to tell you. I finally got my shoes. They feel awesome. Great. I'm glad you got your shoes. sorry go ahead finish up that's good to know i appreciate that because um there's other people that have ordered shoes that were i gotta talk to them see if they've received theirs as well so thank you for letting me know if you do want to get some of our swag silverball swag.com slash loser kid thanks again will auding for all that you do with that i was talking to a buddy outside of this hobby he does fly fishing and he's trying to sell his own merch and i'm like why don't you have like a silver ball swag and he's like what's silver ball swag so i explained it to him he's like that's very unique and it's very like specific to your guys's hobby like like your industry or whatever so i appreciate will for like opening that avenue to allow us to do that so back to what i was saying so if you want to contact us we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com you can get a hold of us via x facebook instagram twitter twitch youtube all at Loser Kid Pinball. Or Gmail. Or Gmail. Go ahead and subscribe. We had an explosion of subscribers via Facebook in this last month. It was ridiculous. Like 250 people in less than 30 days. If you want to look at our beautiful faces, you can watch us on YouTube. Then maybe go back to listening to us. and we do appreciate like i said i we did we did officially hit the milestone of 500 000 listens yeah over that's impressive like i i don't even know what to say that's awesome yeah like obviously you guys are listening thank you so much i feel like we've made it we've arrived hopefully nice guy famous yeah nice guy famous so uh thanks again for tuning in we'll see yeah we have a few things lined up so it's uh but today we want to do a little recap so yeah and and uh what was the other thing i was gonna say it's christmas time it's the holidays nice it's seriously hanukkah it's it's whatever you want you know whatever you believe christmas whatever you put your faith in whether even if you don't put your faith in anything so the schedule might be a little skimwampus here in december yeah because because i'm going to you two in two weeks yeah so go enjoy your family go go tell someone that you've had a feud with like hey man i let's squash it let's let's talk let's break bread so all right see you in two weeks okay we'll see you

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: d548d850-15c9-4576-8732-75079ce34eda*