# Pinball Expo 2021 Roundup , Cactus Canyon and Legends of Valhalla (Ep.66)

**Source:** A Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2021-11-02  
**Duration:** 33m 27s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://apinballpodcast.podbean.com/e/pinball-expo-2021-roundup-cactus-canyon-and-legends-of-valhalla-ep66/

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## Analysis

The host discusses Chicago Pinball Expo 2021, focusing on two major game announcements: Chicago Gaming Company's Cactus Canyon remake and American Pinball's Legends of Valhalla. He evaluates Cactus Canyon as a B/C-tier game with easy shots suitable for new players, priced at $9,249.99 LE with separate DLC code pricing TBD. He criticizes American Pinball's contradictory messaging about Legends of Valhalla's production limits, initially advertised at 300 units then increased to 500 due to demand. Reports indicate flipper power issues on Legends of Valhalla affected playability despite favorable layout feedback.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Cactus Canyon LE is priced at $9,249.99, which does not include the custom rule set code by Lyman Sheets that was publicly promised — _Direct review of Chicago Gaming's website and pricing structure discussed in detail_
- [HIGH] Legends of Valhalla was initially advertised as limited to 300 deluxe units but was increased to 500 units after 24 hours due to demand — _Direct quotes from American Pinball's Facebook statement and press releases cited by name_
- [MEDIUM] The host predicts the separate Cactus Canyon DLC code will cost over $1,000, possibly up to several thousand dollars — _Host speculation based on industry pricing patterns and the prominence given to the code in marketing_
- [MEDIUM] Legends of Valhalla experienced flipper power/responsiveness issues at Expo, described as 'very underpowered' and 'soggy' — _Multiple reports from Expo attendees relayed by host; noted as early-show condition but consistent across models_
- [HIGH] Cactus Canyon is a reimagining rather than a shot-for-shot remake due to code updates, new sculptures, and playfield layout changes like the return trail on the train track — _Host detailed comparison of original vs. CGC version features based on promotional materials and gameplay knowledge_
- [MEDIUM] The pinball collector market has dramatically changed with buyers purchasing 15+ new machines in the past year due to pandemic lockdowns and increased disposable income — _Host reports conversations with multiple collectors and anecdotal examples; one buyer purchased 27 new in-box machines_
- [HIGH] Stern Elvira 40th Anniversary units sold at $33,000 MSRP with only 199 units produced — _Host states 'I do have confirmed' regarding pricing and production numbers_
- [HIGH] Original Cactus Canyon code was never fully fleshed out, resulting in a game that can be completed in 1-2 balls by skilled players — _Host's direct experience playing original Cactus Canyon on location at Cactus Jacks in Oklahoma City over 3-4 years_

### Notable Quotes

> "I think at best this is a B, possibly even a C tier title."
> — **Host**, ~10:00
> _Direct evaluation of Cactus Canyon's gameplay quality relative to other CGC remakes_

> "Good on you if you're able to find one at MSRP. You've basically hit the mini lotto."
> — **Host**, ~18:30
> _Commentary on secondary market markups and scarcity-driven pricing_

> "Our intent was never to limit the number of games. We underestimated the demand for an unlicensed title from a new game designer."
> — **American Pinball (quoted from Facebook statement)**, ~35:00
> _Contradicts their initial press release limiting production to 300 units_

> "You're automatically creating scarcity. You're automatically creating FOMO and doing that and then automatically saying, okay, we succeeded in our FOMO, even though that wasn't even our intention."
> — **Host**, ~42:00
> _Host's criticism of American Pinball's conflicting messaging strategy_

> "I find it very interesting that the choice has been made to keep this code separate from the actual units."
> — **Host**, ~27:00
> _Questions the business logic of unbundling promised DLC code from base game pricing_

> "The dynamics have changed dramatically to where no longer 500 LEs, which is pretty much a guaranteed sellout at this point."
> — **Host**, ~29:00
> _Market analysis indicating LE production could potentially increase without demand issues_

> "The game would probably be fun to shoot, but the flippers prevented it from being fun to shoot for them."
> — **Host (reporting Expo attendee feedback)**, ~48:00
> _Summarizes primary gameplay complaint about Legends of Valhalla mechanical performance_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Chicago Gaming Company | company | Pinball manufacturer announcing Cactus Canyon remake at Expo 2021; known for HD color display art and quality remakes |
| American Pinball | company | Boutique manufacturer releasing Legends of Valhalla; faced criticism for contradictory messaging about production limits |
| Lyman Sheets | person | Rule set designer contracted for custom Cactus Canyon DLC code; pricing for this code not initially disclosed |
| Josh Sharp | person | Assisting Lyman Sheets with Cactus Canyon custom rule set code development |
| Scott | person | Co-designer of Legends of Valhalla (full name not provided; referred to as part of Riot Pinball) |
| Frank | person | Co-designer of Legends of Valhalla (full name not provided; referred to as part of Riot Pinball) |
| Cactus Canyon | game | Chicago Gaming Company remake of classic Williams title; LE priced at $9,249.99; features interactive RGB lighting, new sculptures, die-cast train, and interactive topper with minigame |
| Legends of Valhalla | game | American Pinball release featuring mythology theme; initially limited to 300 deluxe units, expanded to 500; reported flipper power issues at Expo |
| Cactus Jacks | location | Location in Oklahoma City where original Cactus Canyon machine operates; host played it extensively there |
| Chicago Pinball Expo 2021 | event | Major industry event where Cactus Canyon and Legends of Valhalla were debuted/announced |
| Straight Down The Middle | media | YouTube channel that produced promotional video for Cactus Canyon covering train track modifications |
| This Week in Pinball | media | Pinball news outlet covering Expo announcements and press releases |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer referenced for LE production and pricing trends; Mandalorian and Godzilla mentioned as examples of quick sellouts |
| Hot Wheels | game | American Pinball title owned by host; experienced flipper power inconsistency issues similar to reported Legends of Valhalla problems |
| Elvira 40th Anniversary | game | Stern Pinball limited release (199 units) selling at $33,000 MSRP; demonstrates high-end collector market dynamics |
| Godzilla LE | game | Stern Pinball title referenced as example of rapid sellout and secondary market demand |
| Guns N' Roses | game | Stern Pinball release referenced for CE version pricing over a year prior; endless add-a-ball comparison for Cactus Canyon |
| Mandalorian | game | Stern Pinball title cited as example of rapid LE sellout pattern |
| Medieval Madness | game | Chicago Gaming Company remake referenced as benchmark for high-quality remakes (contrasted with Cactus Canyon) |
| Attack from Mars | game | Chicago Gaming Company remake referenced as A-tier quality benchmark (contrasted with Cactus Canyon) |
| Monster Bash | game | Classic Williams title; referenced as A-tier quality benchmark (contrasted with Cactus Canyon) |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Boutique manufacturer referenced for Ultraman and Halloween sellouts |
| Ultraman | game | Spooky Pinball title cited as example of rapid sellout |
| Halloween | game | Spooky Pinball title cited as example of rapid sellout |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Cactus Canyon remake pricing, features, and quality assessment, Legends of Valhalla production limits contradiction and flipper issues, Pinball market dynamics and collector behavior during pandemic, LE production scarcity, FOMO, and secondary market pricing, Separate DLC code pricing strategy for Cactus Canyon
- **Secondary:** Game mechanics and flipper responsiveness on new releases, Business transparency and ethical communication in pinball industry
- **Mentioned:** Host's personal life challenges affecting podcast participation

### Sentiment

**Negative** (-0.62) — Host expresses frustration with American Pinball's contradictory messaging about production limits and ethical concerns about FOMO tactics. Critical of Cactus Canyon's B/C-tier gameplay quality relative to pricing and DLC code separation. However, acknowledges positive aspects (topper minigame innovation, playfield redesign elements) and reports mixed community feedback on Legends of Valhalla. Overall critical but not hostile tone.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** American Pinball's contradictory messaging about Legends of Valhalla production limits creates ethical concerns; initially advertised as 300-unit limit, then increased to 500 units while claiming limitation was never the intent (confidence: high) — Direct comparison of press releases showing '300 deluxe editions, limited' vs. later Facebook statement 'intent was never to limit the number of games'
- **[community_signal]** Host emphasizes podcast's primary purpose as community hobby and engagement vehicle rather than professional monetization; expresses desire for listener interaction despite personal challenges (confidence: high) — Host: 'I do this because it's fun, and I do this because I enjoy chatting with you guys, the listeners out there'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Mixed reception for Legends of Valhalla reported from Expo; majority of players found layout promising but rule set incomplete; flipper issues overshadowed gameplay potential for many attendees (confidence: medium) — Host: 'the majority of people thought the rule set had some promise but wasn't quite there. I heard that a lot from people'
- **[design_philosophy]** Chicago Gaming's Cactus Canyon positioned as 'reimagining' rather than pure remake due to code updates, new sculptures, and playfield modifications (train track return trail) suggesting evolution beyond shot-for-shot reproduction (confidence: high) — Host: 'they're updating the code, they're adding the DLC code...I would almost call this game a reimagining of the game because they're updating the code'
- **[market_signal]** Distributor allocation strategy observed where early allocations at MSRP sold instantly, triggering secondary distributor premium pricing cascade; creates artificial scarcity and price elevation across dealer network (confidence: medium) — Host: 'if their allotment's gone, guess what happens with the next dealer and distributor? Hey, they're here. Buyers are still around. Then their allotment's gone. Then guess what happens then? Even higher prices'
- **[market_signal]** Dramatic shift in pinball collector market with pandemic-driven demand spike; buyers with deep pockets purchasing 15+ machines annually; secondary market markups of $1,200-$2,000+ over MSRP observed (confidence: high) — Host reports conversations with collectors buying 15+ new machines in past year, one with 27 purchases; secondary market pricing discussed extensively
- **[community_signal]** Host cancelled Expo attendance due to significant personal/family health crises (aunt's death, mother hospitalized); represents disruption to content creation and community participation (confidence: high) — Host detailed personal circumstances: 'right before the super series, I had an aunt pass away' and 'my own mother...has been in and out of the hospital'
- **[market_signal]** Host expresses concern about industry-wide pricing unsustainability; Cactus Canyon LE at $9,249.99 plus separate code cost exemplifies potential price ceiling issues; questions what this means for pinball's future (confidence: medium) — Host: 'For me it is a hard pill to swallow' regarding the pricing structure and speculates code could exceed $1,000
- **[market_signal]** Cactus Canyon SE priced at $7,999.99 and LE at $9,249.99 with very small gap; host suggests SE pricing is intentionally high to push buyers toward LE despite DLC code not being included (confidence: high) — Direct quote: 'I think they're going to get it off the line. I think they're going to get people to really gear towards that LE.'
- **[product_strategy]** Cactus Canyon DLC code pricing and availability not disclosed at launch; code promised in marketing but not bundled with machines, suggesting supply chain or licensing complexity (confidence: medium) — Host notes: 'the LE does not come with the custom code that we've all heard about from Lyman Sheets' and questions the business logic of unbundling promised content
- **[product_concern]** Multiple reports from Expo attendees indicate Legends of Valhalla flipper power issues described as 'underpowered' and 'soggy' across all models, affecting gameplay enjoyment despite favorable layout feedback (confidence: medium) — Host: 'the reports that I was getting back from multiple people is that the game would probably be fun to shoot, but the flippers prevented it from being fun to shoot'
- **[business_signal]** Host identifies LE production expansion strategy across industry; notes that Stern could potentially increase LE production from 500 to 1,000 units with continued sell-through at MSRP or higher in current market conditions (confidence: medium) — Host: 'I personally think if Stern even went up to 1,000 LEs, I think at this point in time, they would most likely sell out'

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## Transcript

 Pinball Expo 2021 is now in the books. There were several games that were debuted there, including Cactus Canyon and Legends of Valhalla, and we're going to talk all about that right now. Alrighty, welcome back guys to another episode of a pinball podcast. Thank you guys so much for being here. I greatly do appreciate it. And today we're going to talk about Chicago Pinball Expo 2021 and everything that I know about that happened there. I'm going to give some of my thoughts on that and some of my other thoughts that just kind of, I don't know, branch out from that subject at hand. Now yours truly was supposed to be there this past weekend. However, I had to cancel. And to be honest with you guys, just to be real for a moment, this past month has been really, really tough when it comes to just dealing with life in general. I mean, right before the super series, I had an aunt pass away due to cancer and she was like a second mom to me for 30 plus years. And that was really tough having, having that happen. And then having her funeral just a couple of days before the super series, that was incredibly tough. And on top of that, my own mother who lives with us is retired, has a lot of health problems and she's been in and out of the hospital as well. So I've had to really focus in on that. And hopefully with her, everything turns out to be all right. She's been getting the right medication. She's been getting the right help and the doctors have been great to her. So hopefully she's all well and good. As a matter of fact, I believe either today or tomorrow, as of this recording, I'm supposed to get her from the hospital. So it's been a lot of going back and forth, visiting her for hours at a time than coming back here and having the four kids going crazy here. So I've been going every which direction and life has definitely become life. But hey, that's what it is. And that's exactly why I do this podcast because it is a great hobby of mine. This pinball hobby is a great hobby of mine. I do this for that reason because it is a pure release. It's fun. I don't do it for twippies. I don't do it for money. I don't do it because I want to be known. Quite frankly, I do this because it's fun, and I do this because I enjoy chatting with you guys, the listeners out there. Anybody out there that wants to interact, that's what I really enjoy. But obviously, it's been a little bit tough this past month, but hopefully, everything will be looking up, right? We're past Halloween, so maybe November, December will treat us all a little bit better, but we'll see. All righty, so on to the actual pinball news it's going down now chicago gaming revealed finally their game cactus canyon which is basically the worst kept secret in all of pinball pretty much everybody knew that this was coming for quite some time and i think chicago gaming went as far to kind of allude to it nearly a year or two years ago when they were talking about the titles that they had under their banner now when it comes to cactus canyon yours truly has been fortunate enough to play this game a lot over the past three or four years as an original Cactus Canyon is on location in Oklahoma City at Cactus Jacks. Now, that being said, my personal feelings on Cactus Canyon, I think that it is not anywhere near the same level as an Attack from Mars, as a Medieval Madness, or as a Monster Bash. I think at best this is a B, possibly even a C tier title. But I understand why it's highly sought after. Obviously, if you're aware of your pinball history, there's only a few hundred, if that many, machines out there. And there's reasons behind that with manufacturing, with businesses closing. And that was several years ago or a couple of decades ago at this point. But there's just not too many of them out there. And one of the quirks of this game was the code was never really fully fleshed out. So if you ever play one on location, you'll notice pretty much that you really don't have much to do in the game. I mean, there's things to do, but you'll reach the end of that within one ball in some cases, which there's a lot of people that will do that in one ball or even two balls. So it's not really a difficult game to navigate. The shots themselves, they're wide open. There's nothing about this game in particular that's really dangerous, which in that case means if you're a new player or a newish player or below average player, this might be a game for you to look at and seriously consider because the shots are pretty much just all wide open. I mean, it's impossible not to hit any of these shots. Let's just put it that way. I don't think that there's one difficult shot on this game. Now, looking through on Chicago Games' website, as you can tell, a little bit is updated, right? The game's slightly updated. They have a, of course, what comes with all CGC games on the limited editions is a topper. And we're looking at right now what they call the Wild West Shootout topper. Now, from what they say here, it's included with the limited edition and features the first minigame ever included with a topper. So you'll use your flipper buttons to aim and test your marksman skills as you battle through the town. But please be careful not to hit the peaceful folks of Cactus Canyon. So I guess that means that you're going to have some bad guys, you're going to have some good guys. Don't hit the good guys. Simple as that, right? So Black Bart uses both fully rotating pistol welding arms or welding arms to shoot at you every chance he gets. And you know what's funny? I got multiple pictures sent to me this past weekend of this topper from some people saying that this is the greatest topper they've ever seen. Some other people saying, hey, this is a basic topper. And some people showing me pictures of it with Bart having no arms as they just apparently flew off. I have no idea, really. So, I mean, overall, I think it looks pretty cool. Again, I'm not a huge Topper fan. I think I've well documented that as I've even played a Black Knight, Sword of Rage, without even realizing the Topper was even on there, and I played it for multiple games. I just, quite simply put, I don't look at the top of a pinball machine. I look at what's under the glass, and that's pretty much my main focus. Now, that being said, I like the idea that Chicago Gaming has done here by implementing this Topper to have a mini game. So now it feels like this is actually a part of the game and not just a passive thing in the game. And I know that Stern has tried to make their toppers kind of almost like an active passive type topper, meaning that you have modes built into it that you can get over the course of time. But this makes it seem like that the minigame is an actual mode in the game itself that you could get to every single game. So that is pretty interesting. That's something a little bit different for Cactus Canyon. and then as they show right here interactive rgb general illumination that's on limited and special editions only which is kind of weird because that's the only additions that are possible as there is no classic edition for this particular game and let's see what else they got all new original sculptures as you can see bart is new the i guess the mine is new new the uh i don't know we're looking at the cactus right here if you guys can see it on the stream that's new then they got let's see new train tracks die cast metal train and what's really interesting about this if you guys notice if you watched i believe it's straight down the middle that did the promo for this game where you could find it on youtube or i might even leave a link down below in the show notes but if you look closely this train track now has a return it became a habit trail from the right-hand side back to the left flipper, which is really cool because on the original game, it did not have that, which really means with this particular game, it almost feels like it's obviously not a shot-for-shot remake, but I would almost call this game a reimagining of the game because they're updating the code, they're adding the DLC code, which we will talk about here in just a second, and they've kind of changed around some shots on it. So this is really like a reimagining to me more so than a pure remake at this point. Now it says here that they have new custom lower arches, which is really cool because it looks like with the limited edition which you can see on the right hand side it appears that they going to have laser wooden top and cast metal medallions on it And this game I don know like it looks pretty cool down there Now, that being said, it's funny because we alluded to this before, that a lot of times when you see objects on a play field, a lot of people want to see them move. And I feel like if this game had come out even just a year ago, I think people would have been a little bit upset that they didn't really do anything, but it's 2021. It's a brand new year. This is post Grogu at this point. So I think a lot of people are seeing this and they think it actually looks pretty dope. And I, for one, do think it looks pretty cool. It might be a little bit overkill, but you know what? Hey, it's pinball. There's a lot of money in it. Why not go for it? I say. Then of course it has the HD color display art, which CGC gaming has become well known for at this point. And I, for one, really do enjoy this about them because the LCD, for me, it's hit or miss. I mean, some games I like it, some games I don't like it. It just really depends on what's going on. But this always draws my eyes. Seeing something like this typically gets my attention more so than any LCD ever would. So I really do like this. Just the overall color scheme, just the way that everything is, I mean, for me, it really catches the eyes. and then of course going down here we'll just scroll down and you can see the feature matrix right here we're not going to go too much into it because i'm sure a lot of you guys out there know exactly what you're getting into what is very surprising to me is where they have the special edition price now the special edition right now is priced right at eight thousand dollars msrp or seven thousand nine hundred ninety nine dollars and ninety nine cents to be exact the reason why this surprises me so much because that is awfully close to the limited edition, which is at $92,4999. Now, that being said, I believe that this limited edition that has 1,250 models total with 250 models going overseas and 1,000 models staying here in at least North America or America itself, I fully believe that this LE is underpriced. Now, that being said, I know that there was a mad rush out there to get these machines and get them at MSRP. Good on you if you're able to find one at MSRP. You've basically hit the mini lotto. And the reason for this really, and kind of getting back to it, I think that the SE is priced at where it's at because quite frankly, I don't think they really care about selling that many. I think they're going to get it off the line. They're going to get people to really gear towards that LE. I think with those prices that close together, I think you really want people to get the LE. And the reason for that, the LE does not come with the custom code that we've all heard about from Lyman Sheets and with Josh Sharpe helping out also. I repeat, it does not come with that. Now, we don't know yet what the price is for that new code, but I find this very fascinating that there is a limited edition model out there for right at $9,250. $250, and that's seen as a good price. I'm even saying that's probably a still of a price, considering where the pinball prices are now, but the game doesn't have everything in it. Now, that being said, obviously the game has everything that was intended to be in it from a default standpoint. When we talk about the art blades, we talk about the shaker motor, we talk about the topper, the arch, the sculpts, all that. That, of course, is all in there. but that being said in terms of software what you're essentially getting you're getting original software with both games which to be honest with your original software if you're a halfway decent player you will be done with the game really really fast enhanced software i have no clue where it's at i talked to a few people that are world-class pinball players that had an opportunity to play it and they said of course it was a really easy shooter it was easy code to understand There's some things on it that they thought that there was a couple of multiballs that lasted forever because it was endless add a ball. But they didn't know if that was part of the actual rule set or if they had encountered a bug. But let's just say they counted it and they just had add a ball, add a ball, add a ball. They said they nearly felt like they were playing Guns N' Roses at one point. So that kind of made me chuckle. But getting back to the point at hand, I find it very interesting that basically we're priced at $92.50. and that does not include the rule set by Lyman Sheets that has already been advertised by Chicago Gaming with the press releases that they put out with having the press release out on This Week in Pinball. They have it up on their Facebook page. I'm not sure if they have it up on their website, but that is definitely something that's coming along the way. That being said, this is something that really wasn't talked about too much if you watch Chicago Gaming Company's Expo seminar as it just, I don't know, I watched through that seminar and I really didn't learn too much other than it just felt like everything was incredibly disorganized from the beginning. So I don't really know what to think about that. It doesn't really inspire too much confidence in me with what's going on, but the bottom line is this day and age, it's pinball. People are buying whatever you throw at them, and this game is no exception. But at $92.50 and the final code not in there, I'm just wondering, what does this mean for pinball? because this code pretty much that's coming out, I don't think it's necessarily going to be cheap. I don't see why you would hire somebody and also, or as a contractor essentially, and put it out there for everybody to know without this being a major part of the game. Their intentions most likely are to have this be a major part of the game. On top of that, because of this, it's almost like they want you to get the LD and then on top of that, they want you to get this code. so I could see this and I'm just pure speculating because they had no pricing at all on this I'm just pure speculating I could see this being upwards of over a thousand dollars I would be absolutely floored if it was any cheaper than that I would be floored and I know that sounds sky high I know it does but for me if that was supposed to be baked into the game in general why would you not this day age, just price the game at $10.50 and have that code in there. You see what I'm saying? Now, obviously, there's probably all kinds of license deals that they got to work out. There's probably all kinds of, I don't know, moving parts to this whole thing. But seeing where pinball prices are currently, seeing what's happened to Godzilla LE, they obviously saw what happened with Guns and Roses CE because that was over a year ago at this point. I find it very interesting that the choice has been made to keep this code separate from the actual units. And I further find it interesting that right now we are in a situation in which an LE can come out that does not have everything intended for that game to have, and it can still sell out at the price it is for the most part. So, and we'll talk about the sellout here in a few, because I know a lot of people have said that I'm even saying it right now, but here's the dirty little secret about that. I promise you this game is not sold out yet. And the reason for that is I guarantee you there are distributors out there that are not putting it out for sale yet. Why is that? Well, for one, the LEs are not going to be available until January at the earliest. We're just now at the beginning of November. So that price most likely is very, very low. If you got an MSRP, good on you. But honestly, I think that price is upwards of $1,200, maybe even $2,000 below where it should be. God's honest truth. Guys, the landscape of pinball purchases has changed. I've talked to a lot of people about this. I've talked to a lot of people that are new in the hobby and have purchased games themselves. And I think a lot of people don't realize how much this has truly grown. And there's a lot of people out there due to the pandemic and due to being locked into their houses. is they have made the choice to really put a premium and a priority on in entertainment And because of that I talked to several people that have bought 15 plus new in pens just in the past year And you heard me right, 15 plus. I've talked to one individual, 27 new in-box pens that they have bought. And that includes buying a pro and deciding to go up to a premium. So they're out there. Now, obviously, supply chains are all jacked up right now. If you've ordered a pen, you're probably waiting. But you know what? The reality is if you have deep pockets and you really want a game, you call around. You're probably going to find something somewhere at some point. That's just the reality of it. So because of that, when you look at how these LEs are from any company, you see what happened with Spooky selling out Ultraman, selling out Halloween. You see what happened with Chicago Gaming with how quickly these pens are starting to go. You see what happens with Stern every time something like Mandalorian or Godzilla comes out that they just go. You see what happens with Stern Elvira 40th anniversary, which I do have confirmed. Units have been moving at $33,000. Have that confirmed. I mean, and we're talking just 199 units for that particular game. So what I'm getting at here is there's a lot of people out there that have deep pockets that are really going hard in the paint for pinball. They want the newest thing. They want the brightest thing. And it doesn't really matter what the gameplay is. At some point, I don't know, maybe we're at the point where it doesn't even matter really what the theme is for some of these people, that it's just the constant barrage of just collecting. And then they tell their friends, hey, I got this. You should get that. And then all of a sudden it's just order, order, order. I know of one person that I was told about here just the other day that legitimately has, they just got into pinball six months ago, right? Got into pinball six months ago. Ordered a Cactus Canyon LE. Ordered two Elvira 40th anniversaries for right at $20,000. Good on them. They got one for $20,000, another one for $20,000. Amazing. I feel bad for Evers, the distributor. there because, I mean, man, that's a lot of money left on the table. But they got those. They got the Godzilla LE. I mean, these people, they want pinball, and they are going hard for pinball. So the dynamics of everything is changing, guys. The dynamics have changed dramatically to where no longer 500 LEs, which is pretty much a guaranteed sellout at this point. I personally think if Stern even went up to, I don't know, 1,000 LEs, I think at this point in time, they would most likely sell out of it at this point in time. And I'm not talking just through to distributors. I think distributors would sell it out too. I really think they do because it's become to the point that if you can find a pen for MSRP, you would almost be crazy not to grab it. And, I mean, that's pretty much what's happening because there are some dealers and distributors that are kind of lagging behind that line that are still pricing at MSRP, and their allotment is gone instantly. So if their allotment's gone, guess what happens with the next dealer and distributor? Hey, they're here. Buyers are still around. Then their allotment's gone. Then guess what happens then? Even higher prices and even higher prices. And that's exactly what we're seeing happen right now. And I think we're going to see it grow even more leading into the quarter four season as we're fully in it. Christmas time is nearly here. I think we're going to see a lot of these prices, even third party prices, start to rise up. So speaking of third party, there was this other game that came out called Legends of Valhalla from American Pinball. And I have a few thoughts on this. Some good, some not so good. So I don't know. But let me attack this with the not so good thoughts. So to get it straight out there, because this was an ordeal just about a week ago, and I haven't heard many people talk about it since then. But for yours truly, I'm not a big fan of this situation. The fact that American Pinball announced from the very beginning that they were going to limit their additions to 300 deluxe additions. That's what they said. However, they're not doing that. So on their own Facebook, we can read it right here. It says, thank you to our customers for your overwhelming support of Legends of Valhalla and bringing Scott and Frank of Riot Pinball's dream come true by bringing their game to the masses. We had ordered parts for 300 deluxe editions. At 300 units, we were sold out before half of the world even knew about the release, and that was not our intent. That's really confusing. If their intent wasn't to sell out, I don't know. I don't know what that means. So apparently their intent was not to sell out quickly. Okay. Sorry, I got to take a drink on that. That nearly broke me. All right. So moving forward, we received orders for 500 units in 24 hours. At 500 units, anyone who had placed a confirmed order with a distributor we believe will be accommodated. It is possible that some dealers may have games available. Our intent, and this is important right here, guys. This is important. This is why I have a problem with this. Our intent was never to limit the number of games. We underestimated the demand for an unlicensed title from a new game designer, and we especially underestimated the support from our international markets. While we still have demand for beyond 500 units of the Deluxe model, we are capping the production at 500 total Deluxe Edition units. We are proud and humbled to announce that due to strong demand and orders from our distribution network, we have decided to build 500 total Legends of Valhalla Deluxe Edition. So there's a few important tidbits there. And the main thing that I want to address is them saying, one, that it was not their intent to sell out. And two, it was not their intent to ever limit the number of games. However, you go down here just a few days earlier, it literally says right here, and this is their main press release. And I saw this press release over on This Week in Pinball, which we'll look at in just a few. I got email blasts from different distributors, and it all said the same thing. We'll go right here, and I'll just go ahead and just bring it up. Big, bold letters right there. Legends of Valhalla Deluxe Edition, limited to 300 units. So there's a little bit of explaining that might need to be done. Now, I get it. There's going to be people out there that are just, quite frankly, not going to care. and there's going to be people out there like me that do care about it. And I do care that if you're a company and you say something's going to be limited, keep it there because what happens is what we're seeing right now. I mean, they plainly said right here that they underestimated the demand. So just go with that. Just say, hey, our intention was to limit this, but due to overwhelming demand, demand, we want to open up more. We'll accept we're at fault here. We were wrong. We want to provide more for people. I think that would be an easier pill to swallow. For me, it is a hard pill to swallow when I read them explaining that their intent was never to limit the number of games. However, on any of the press releases, whenever they initially put the game out for sale, it clearly stated limit it to 300. So you're automatically creating scarcity. You're automatically creating FOMO and doing that and then automatically saying, okay, we succeeded in our FOMO, even though that wasn't even our intention. And then you turn around and add more units for me. It just, it doesn't make much sense. And I don't know. And the problem is with this explanation and with what happened, it's one or two things, either there's zero communication going on between everybody and they got their wires mixed up and this is just kind of like a bizarre statement to give afterwards or it highly unethical business I mean I don think there anything illegal to it but the ethicalness of it is just it really questionable at best So I'm not really a big fan of that, but hey, bottom line is, is more pinball is great. Me personally, I know some people are probably like, well, if you're not gonna buy it, hey, I bought a Hot Wheels. I bought a Hot Wheels and I actually enjoyed it. And I was willing to take a look at this game. Now, it's not a theme that I particularly enjoy. I'm not a huge fan of the theme at all. It does absolutely nothing for me, but I'm very interested in the layout. I'm very interested in how that rule set would come along with that layout. So I was slightly thinking about possibly getting in on one, but seeing how this is right now, honestly, I'm going to wait because I think prices on this game, secondary market, I think automatically they became less overnight. I'm aware that there's several distributors that still have pins available because just like I said here, they're basically due to strong demand from the distribution network. That's why they built more. Now, that being said, just because a distributor says, hey, I want X amount of games doesn't mean X amount of games have already been sold. You know, I mean, quite simply put, there's plenty of distributors out there that have no sterns really available and they have nothing to sell. They're going to take whatever they can get. But I know for a fact, as of the recording of this podcast, there's several people out there that are not sold out of this. So, you know, I could see right now, even if I wanted a deluxe edition, honestly, I'd probably still be asking for a discount. I don't think I would pay MSRP for one. And that's just me just knowing that there's 500 out there available. And I don't really see them not being easily attainable in the future. I don't know. That's just how I'm looking at it. Maybe I might be totally wrong. Maybe it might be just the biggest thing since sliced bread, and everybody wants to hang on to it. Now, that being said, I did get some reports back about this game in particular from people that played it at Expo. And the common theme of this all was that the majority of people, now I'm not going to say all, because there were some people that thought it was a home run. There were some people out there that just thought it was just a total, just one of the most terrible games they've ever played. And that's the way it goes. I mean, that's pinball. You get people on both sides of it. So I want to focus more on the middle of the road average to all this. And the gist that I got, the majority of people thought the layout was pretty good. The majority of people were just kind of on the theme. The majority of people thought the rule set had some promise but wasn't quite there. I heard that a lot from people that the rule set wasn't quite there. Now, again, I'm not familiar with it, so I can't really make a judgment. But I also did hear from a lot of people that the game suffered due to the flippers. So basically, these flippers were very underpowered. They were very soggy. And this was early in the show. And this was across all models. Now, I know what a lot of people are thinking. That's why I said, hey, early in the show. Because obviously, these games, when they get so much play, eventually the flippers are going to get soggy. But the one thing I did notice from my American Pinball machine that I had with Hot Wheels, Granted, it was built like a tank, but the flippers, they sometimes felt great, and then other times it was just dead in the water. And it was so bizarre because it would be like that. Sometimes I would be an hour into flipping, and it's like the flippers would just all of a sudden be alive, and they'd be fine. Other times I would just turn on the game after having off for a couple days, and the flippers were instantly just not powerful at all. So it just kind of, I don't know, it went back and forth and ultimately I had to find a setting in the game itself to kind of up the power of the flippers. But even then it was still really hit and miss where a lot of times the ramps I was just barely making it. It wasn't something that really lent itself to a fast gameplay. And so I'm very curious to see how that works with this particular game, because the reports that I was getting back from multiple people is that the game would probably be fun to shoot, but the flippers prevented it from being fun to shoot for them. So that's kind of the report I got back. But that being said, I still got a few people that said, Hey, it was an excellent game. I want to pick up one. So again, I mean, it's pinball. You had to try these games for yourself to find out exactly what you like and what you don't like. Now, that being said, just like we talked about a second ago with America or with this week in pinball with their deep dive overall of Legends of Valhalla, just kind of going over the, I don't know, the general layout of it. And you can kind of tell why you really need your flippers to work because I wish I could get this all on one page. And I don't know if I'm going to be able to, for those that are watching on YouTube, but you can kind of tell right here that obviously the center ramp is all the way back in the back. And so when you get a shot that is that far in the back, your flippers do need to be powerful. You don't want half ramps. You don't want to feel like you're just kind of flipping and hitting a ball with a wet noodle. That's the last thing you want to feel. So, you know, I don't know. Hopefully they get it figured out. I don't know if it's possible because, quite frankly, I don't do the manufacturing. I have no clue anything about that. But it's always fascinating to me that when we're dealing with pinball machines, it seems like anybody outside of Stern that the flippers always feel different. You know, for me, American or not American, but Attack from Mars, Monster Bash, the remakes, they all feel quite different to me. Medieval Madness, a little bit different. Cactus Canyon, I did hear from a lot of people that they felt like the flippers flipped really well. But with American Pinball, the flippers have always felt a little off to me. With Spooky, the flipper, it's really strange. The flippers for us on Alice Cooper actually feels pretty good. The Rick and Morty flippers, they're kind of, you know, but when it comes to Halloween, the flippers are just not very good on that game, on our particular model. So, you know, again, mileage may vary. Jersey Jack, I had a Guns N' Roses special edition for a little while in here, and honestly, those flippers would get so soggy so fast, it just felt like a completely different game after about two or three songs. Now with sterns, they always feel right. They're flippers for me. They always have the right snap. The shots are always where I expect them to be and it's like that from game to game. No matter which game I'm playing or which location I'm playing or no matter what part of the country I'm playing at, it typically feels the same. So I don't quite know why that is. If somebody out there knows why that is, can tell me how the parts are, because obviously different companies use different parts. I just, I can't figure out for the life of me why nothing else anywhere else feels consistent, but Sterns always feel consistent. I don't know. It has to be a mix of parts and it has to be a mix of just somebody really dialed in on their manufacturing. That's what I would have to guess. I don't know. But either way, that's all I got for today. I greatly do appreciate you guys being here, spending about 30 plus minutes with me. We talked about some stuff. We didn't talk about all things Expo, but we talked about the games that mattered. I guess wrapping up the pinball tournament part, which is funny because I didn't even talk about that at all, even though I happen to be a tournament player. I don't know. Maybe we'll just save that and I'll talk to Tom Graff. I'll get him on the podcast and we could talk a little bit about his streams that he had because he streamed for like three days straight there. And if you like tournament pinball and you haven't had a chance to watch it, I would check over at Fox Cities Pinball on Twitch because he probably has some of the VODs up and it's all, it's all very high level play when you get world-class players on a stern that has loose till and allows you to jam a little bit on it. But other than that, it's all I got though, guys, I appreciate you guys being here until next time. I'll see you guys. Um, I guess later. Yeah, that's how I want to end it later. Guys, you have just listened to a pinball podcast. you can catch new shows on your favorite podcatcher or over on youtube.com forward slash marv loco for even more pinball content

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: d85174e2-30f7-479e-b8e7-0af04136d071*