# Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 39 - 5 minutes of endless ball save! **Source:** The Pinball Network **Type:** video **Published:** 2023-07-01 **Duration:** 124m 50s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbMvncjgt5E --- ## Analysis Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 39 features hosts Joel, Travis Murie, and Tom Graff discussing their recent trips to Europe for major tournaments. They cover the European Pinball Championship (EPC), the Epstein Cup (North America vs. Europe team competition), and the World Championship, with detailed analysis of elite players like Johannes, Marcus (who had an exceptional run at Worlds), and competitive dynamics. The episode also celebrates Tom Graff's recent achievement as a Twitch partner and includes casual banter about travel, jet lag, and pinball market observations. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Tom Graff achieved Twitch partner status after a push for consistent viewership over two weeks — _Joel and Travis confirm Tom made the push and achieved the milestone with community support_ - [MEDIUM] There are only four known partnered pinball streamers on Twitch (Buffalo, Deadflip, I.E Pinball, and Tom Graff) — _Joel states 'I can only name four' and lists the streamers, though acknowledges uncertainty about one additional streamer_ - [HIGH] European Pinball Championship had 256 players broken into groups of 16, with top 4 advancing — _Tom Graff explains the format directly_ - [HIGH] Tom Graff placed one game away from advancing at EPC, losing tiebreaker with Vigo — _Tom Graff describes his match experience at EPC_ - [MEDIUM] Neil McRae did not qualify for Worlds 2022 (top 80 qualification) — _Travis states Neil was not in qualifying and mentions he was in his own head_ - [HIGH] Marcus (likely Marcus Sticks) made an exceptional run at Worlds, winning ~9 games in a row including against top players Zach McCarthy and likely Escher — _Travis describes Marcus's heater: '13 points then like 17 points and 21 points', sweeping Zach McCarthy 4-0 in the second round_ - [HIGH] World Championship finals went between Johannes (1 seed) and Marcus to 9 games, with Johannes ultimately winning — _Travis describes the finals matchup and Johannes's victory_ - [HIGH] Epstein Cup format uses eight players per team (Europe vs. North America), with players picked from top rankings — _Joel and Tom explain the team selection and format_ - [HIGH] North America won the Epstein Cup — _Travis states 'the US did win that by the way'_ - [HIGH] Tyler (player from New Zealand) made Worlds finals and defeated Travis in their match — _Travis describes losing to Tyler and Tyler's strong performance at Worlds_ ### Notable Quotes > "I think he had a magnet on both flippers because the ball would always find its way back there in a trap situation... everything he shot at was he could get it back in control" > — **Travis Murie**, ~mid-episode > _Vivid description of Johannes's exceptional flipper control and ball trapping ability at Worlds_ > "I felt absolutely helpless like it didn't matter what I was going to score didn't matter what I was gonna do Johannes was going to beat it and he was going to look much cooler while doing it" > — **Travis Murie**, ~mid-episode > _Travis's assessment of the skill gap between himself and Johannes_ > "It's like I was drunk without being mentally impaired" > — **Travis Murie**, ~later-episode > _Description of jet lag effects during Worlds competition_ > "You don't necessarily have to know the entire game or the rule set like the back of your hand you just got to know your path" > — **Travis Murie**, ~mid-episode > _Insight into competitive pinball strategy and the difference between casual and tournament play_ > "I would probably venture to say that it's highly likely that if he played anybody else in the world currently I think if they played a hundred times he probably beats everybody like more than 50 times" > — **Travis Murie**, ~mid-episode > _Travis's assessment that Johannes is currently the best pinball player in the world_ > "He's like a Terminator mode and it's just it's impressive to watch" > — **Travis Murie**, ~mid-episode > _Description of Johannes's demeanor and focus during competition_ > "Congratulations in order and that is Mr Tom Graf is now officially a twitch uh partner" > — **Joel**, ~early-episode > _Announcement and celebration of Tom Graff's Twitch partnership achievement_ > "Marcus was just on an absolute heater and then of course he took Johannes all the way to nine games" > — **Travis Murie**, ~mid-episode > _Characterization of Marcus's exceptional performance at Worlds_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Travis Murie | person | Co-host of Triple Drain Pinball Podcast, elite competitive pinball player, recently competed at European Pinball Championship and World Championship | | Tom Graff | person | Co-host of Triple Drain Pinball Podcast, tournament streamer and commentator, recently achieved Twitch partner status, competed at European Pinball Championship and Worlds | | Joel | person | Co-host of Triple Drain Pinball Podcast | | Johannes | person | Elite European pinball player, 1 seed and winner of World Championship, described as exceptionally skilled with superior ball control and consistency | | Greg Bone | person | Recent guest on Triple Drain, co-host of other pinball shows, known for enthusiasm about Halloween and Scooby-Doo themes | | Neil McRae | person | Elite pinball player, frequently travels to international tournaments, did not qualify for Worlds 2022, played in Epstein Cup, placed top 16 at EPC | | Marcus Sticks | person | Elite pinball player with exceptional performance at Worlds 2022, had remarkable heater winning ~9 straight games, reached finals against Johannes | | Zach McCarthy | person | World Champion pinball player, defeated by Marcus 4-0 at Worlds 2022 | | Keith Elwin | person | Elite pinball player known for exceptional ball control and adaptive strategy | | Escher | person | Elite pinball player known for aggressive play style and deep rules knowledge, competed at Worlds 2022 | | Tyler | person | Young pinball player (16-17 years old) from New Zealand, made Worlds finals, defeated Travis Murie in competition | | Vigo | person | Elite European pinball player, competed at EPC and Worlds | | Usher | person | Elite pinball player, second place at EPC, competed at Worlds and Epstein Cup | | Arvid | person | Elite European pinball player on Epstein Cup team | | Danielli | person | European pinball player on Epstein Cup team | | Eric Stone | person | Elite pinball player known for exceptional shot consistency once dialed in, competed at Worlds | | Colin | person | Talented pinball player selected for Epstein Cup North American team after Jared August declined | | Jared August | person | Extremely talented US pinball player who declined to compete in Epstein Cup | | Josh Sharp | person | Elite pinball player, competed at Worlds 2022 | | European Pinball Championship | event | Tournament held in Europe with 256 participants, top-4 advancement format from groups of 16 | | Epstein Cup | event | Team competition between North America (8 players) and Europe (8 players), North America won | | World Championship 2022 | event | Top 80 players worldwide competed, Johannes won, Marcus had exceptional heater to reach finals | | Triple Drain Pinball Podcast | organization | Podcast hosted by Joel, Travis Murie, and Tom Graff covering competitive pinball, tournaments, and industry news | | Twitch | organization | Streaming platform where Tom Graff recently achieved partner status | ### Topics - **Primary:** European Pinball Championship results and format, World Championship 2022 results and player performances, Epstein Cup (North America vs. Europe team competition), Johannes's exceptional skill and competitive dominance - **Secondary:** Tom Graff's Twitch partnership achievement, Jet lag and travel effects on competitive performance, Tournament game setup differences (tilt sensitivity, flipper strength, plastic protectors), Comparative skill analysis of elite players ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.75) — Hosts are enthusiastic about tournament results, celebrate Tom's partnership achievement, and express genuine enjoyment of competitive pinball. Respectful admiration for Johannes despite competitive losses. Casual, friendly banter throughout. Some light criticism of tournament setups (tilt sensitivity, plastic protectors) but framed as constructive observation. ### Signals - **[competitive_signal]** Johannes demonstrated exceptional skill at World Championship, with Travis assessing he would likely beat any other player more than 50% of the time in 100 matches. Described as nearly flawless in ball control, shot making, and consistency. (confidence: high) — Travis: 'he probably beats everybody like more than 50 times' and description of magnet-like flipper control and trap consistency - **[competitive_signal]** Marcus achieved an exceptional heater at Worlds 2022, winning approximately 9 consecutive games against elite competition to reach finals, including sweeping Zach McCarthy 4-0. Described as 'probably the biggest heater in the history of competitive Pinball'. (confidence: high) — Travis: 'Marcus was just on an absolute heater' and description of 13/17/21 point rounds and sweep of McCarthy - **[content_signal]** Tom Graff achieved Twitch partner status after a concerted push for consistent viewership over two weeks. Community support was instrumental in reaching the threshold. Noted that partnered pinball streamers are rare (~4 known). (confidence: high) — Joel: 'Tom's doing a push here the big thing is he needs to have consistently high views for like a week Plus in a row' and confirmation of partnership - **[competitive_signal]** Recent World Championship and other major tournaments saw geographic diversity with players from New Zealand (Tyler), Europe, North America, and established international competitors. Suggests growing global participation in elite pinball competition. (confidence: high) — Tyler from New Zealand made Worlds finals; Epstein Cup featured international team format - **[operational_signal]** Tournament game setups varied significantly, with some games (older titles like Dolly Parton, Fire) having very sensitive tilt mechanisms, while newer Stern games had plastic playfield protectors and more forgiving nudge settings. Players noted inconsistency in setup philosophy. (confidence: high) — Travis: 'some of the older games are set up kind of tough in regards to nudging' and notes about plastic protectors on all Stern machines - **[gameplay_signal]** Different elite players possess different skill profiles: Johannes demonstrates exceptional consistent trap control and ball awareness; Keith Elwin shows adaptive mid-game strategy and shot recovery; Escher combines aggressive play with rules knowledge; Eric Stone has exceptional shot consistency. (confidence: high) — Travis's detailed comparative analysis of player skill types and examples from specific matches - **[competitive_signal]** Neil McRae, typically an elite performer, failed to qualify for Worlds 2022 top 80, attributed to being 'in his own head' and mental struggles during qualifying rounds. (confidence: medium) — Travis: 'he was kind of in his own head he wasn't playing good and then you know he just kind of got flustered' - **[product_concern]** Plastic playfield protectors installed on all Stern machines at Worlds appeared to cause mechanical inconsistencies (heavier sounds, earlier flippers), affecting shot angles and feel. Players had to adapt but expressed dissatisfaction with lack of consistency. (confidence: medium) — Tom and Travis discuss plastic protectors on Godzilla and other Stern games affecting shot timing and flipper placement - **[community_signal]** Increased international participation and visibility in pinball tournaments, with European Pinball Championship drawing 256 players and major US players (Tom, Travis) traveling to Europe for competition. (confidence: high) — EPC participation, Epstein Cup format, Tyler from New Zealand at Worlds - **[gameplay_signal]** Travis reveals that tournament success doesn't require complete mastery of all game rules/nuances. Players can succeed by knowing their optimal path and key combos, rather than maximizing every rule. Contrasts with casual/expo play where rule mastery becomes more relevant. (confidence: high) — Travis: 'you don't necessarily have to know the entire game or the rule set like the back of your hand you just got to know your path' - **[competitive_signal]** Jet lag and extended travel significantly impacted competitive performance at Worlds, with Travis experiencing multi-day adjustment period and describing effects as 'drunk without being mentally impaired'. Successfully competed despite suboptimal condition. (confidence: high) — Travis describes jet lag timeline and scoring low on Congo (38M) and Tron (2M) during adjustment period --- ## Transcript network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast all right Travis how you feeling man you good you feeling okay he's nodding his head it's an audio podcast Travis I thought I was ready yeah yeah I got my uh towel and by the way towel yep oh you bought one no I didn't buy one yeah I got my my towel in oh God that's cute that's cute thanks for uh supporting us yep um right before I hit the button to uh play the intro song uh Travis literally coughed up something and he was like I think it all came out coughing out blood too much whiskey too many cigars what can you do yeah smoke um and I have to ask and I'm so excited to ask this but Tom are you ready unfortunately for the listeners yes I am now on board no no unfortunate no you were back he's back it's been like five weeks since we recorded the three of us so uh yeah I'm gonna go hit the hit the button here and let's go Triple Tree Tom I think I think we're just gonna have to do it ourselves Travis is dying he is dying over there are you call that Canadian smoke okay no joke I I send a text to text out to uh or his Discord out to Mike with pinballers Craig Bobby and um David Dennis up there in Canada I said get your freaking smoke out of our country yeah what the [ __ ] yeah my kids daycare their outdoor day was canceled here in Indiana because the the air quality for three days three days we were advised not to go outside because of the forest fires up in Canada so uh got some pretty entertaining responses back Mike just says they're they're you know cooking a ton of marshmallows up there and he sent a picture of cooking uh hot dogs over the campfire but it got all the way down I mean you're in Minnesota not Minnesota Missouri um where Travis is and I mean clearly he must be breathing in right now he's are you going to be yeah I'm fine Joel I'm just allergic to your [ __ ] that's all okay we just started we just started Tom um by the way oh thank you I miss you so much buddy I had to be on here with Joel and it's just yep just I missed you I'm so glad you're back thanks we are like that now that the the problem is now that we're about Greg Greg was good yes that's what I was saying it's great now that we're a video podcast it's you've set the bar you know like we have to find somebody that not only meets you and your charisma and you know what you bring there audio wise but they we have to have we gotta find a good looking guy too to fill your role so Greg bone you know it's hard to do it was a decent stand-in decent stand in for for the Tom Graf yeah I was ready to like Weekend at Bernie's this [ __ ] like I was fully prepared no it was that was cool it was cool talking to him I'll put my will to donate my corpse to you well well just in case yeah yeah to both of us is that what you said yeah well how's that going to work uh I get that bro we'll figure it out I will say um we've had some really great guests on this show and it's always cool when people want to be on the show but um he Greg was a change of pace because we've had a lot of very uh technical or tournament you know very focused on scoring type of people and uh Greg's not that guy which was awesome it was cool having somebody just there sharing his love of uh Halloween and Scooby-Doo so it was it was great it was really cool having Greg on I'd love to have him on again that was a lot of fun oh at least one person does yeah yeah but um we have we have to we have a congratulations in order and that is Mr Tom Graf is now officially a twitch uh partner right yeah partner yes last time last time we were on it was five weeks ago there was a push and we kind of set it on the podcast like hey Tom's doing a push here the big thing is he needs to have consistently high views for like a week Plus in a row so you would kind of knocked that out you pushed you did a bunch of streams all within two weeks and um I gained the system just like the ifpa yeah your push worked your push worked and thank you so much to all the listeners or anybody that supported him because it was enough to get him over the hurdle and um yeah officially now I'm the odd one out we have two officially to which partnered people and me I don't I don't stream on Twitch anymore so it's awesome congrats man how does it feel you know just being um you know now like a global uh rock star I mean you just well I wouldn't go that far but it feels pretty good as far as I know when we were in Germany I was having to like beat people off of Tom like his bubble was getting invaded the entire time it was unbelievable yeah that's a great bubble you got that's a great one yeah and it wasn't just a pinball people either oh no they know it's random people International twitch star at this point um there aren't a ton there aren't a ton of um of of partnered pinball streamers so you have you have made it can only name four four I know Buffalo uh dead flip I.E pinball you that's it and that's it I think there's one there's somebody else they said their name before and that's who helped Buffalo get in I don't know who it is though I don't think they stream and then technically technically Travis marveloko over here he's he hasn't streamed on Twitch in years but yeah no that's awesome that's awesome I'll play Call of Duty again it's fine it's probably still a popular game I bet somewhere fortnite something I don't know maybe like I don't even think I could remember the controls on Call of Duty what Call of Duty I haven't played in like [ __ ] I didn't know either Tom I just sat there and stared at the camera and talked the whole time and somehow that worked yep and I think the trick was I think he had Monica on stream a few times and that probably increased the numbers yeah it was like she was like once or twice but we were we were very much we were very much pretty hot tub meta though it wasn't uh it wasn't quite there but I don't know I got my floaties ready I might bring it back awesome uh well last time we recorded um we we had no tournament talk that was the rule no tournament talk whatsoever I know Greg really wanted to talk about it and you know I did um but now that Tom now that you are back there are definitely things we have to review so just real brief the the goal for this episode um we're gonna talk about some of the tournament stuff that's happened the last few weeks and then there's just a whole bunch of just kind of random news that's going out there so we're going to share some of our takes on that um and kind of our current state of where we are with pinball as well as some of the stuff we're seeing with with um the market the market of pinball so if if you don't love tournament talk that's fine hang out we got plenty more to talk talk about afterwards but um the main thing I want to address when it comes to the tournament is both of you guys actually travel to Europe you guys both went to Europe and played in so it's a whole nother country Jill it was a whole nother continent yeah it's a big plane ride over there Tommy even paid for tell them you paid your whole family actually your whole family went to Europe on that vacation right yeah well not the whole time but yeah but there yeah so there was the I mean I'm gonna let you guys discuss this but I know the first week there was um well first off there was you didn't participate in it but Neil did there's there's like a a tournament or it's a it's like a one night thing where it's Europe Europe has a team in the US or North America as a team and they just Oh I thought that was early on but what what is that called well it was early on with the later on yeah that's what you're getting confused that's a good that's a good this was a while ago and I wasn't there so maybe I should let you guys talk through the order it's Crystal Clear like John it was early on later on got it so that not early on later on earlier later on with with the later on I got it yeah because the true early on was the European pinball Championship yeah that's exactly what I was saying yep okay so so what is the uh what is the US equivalent of that like what Tournament of what the European pinball whatever you just said probably the United States pinball championship when did that happen never we don't have that okay okay a couple weeks at District 82. so you honestly yeah I don't know is there equipment I think there really is so the European pinball Champion anybody can play in it right because you Tom you played in it you just have to sign up for it okay yeah just time Graf can go but is anybody like if I would have flown to Europe could I have played in it or is there a qualifying aspect no they would have kicked you out Joel I didn't know if this was I I know obviously worlds when you guys played worlds there is clearly a qualifying aspect of that but the European pinball Championship because you know news flash Tom's not European but he played in it so I was wondering is there actually ancestors used to be okay that's all you need you have the lineage yeah it's a it's a blood draw beforehand and they they swab your spit okay you're okay yeah oh for real how do you get into that or can anybody get into it I think it was 256 people get to sign up for it yeah something like that but I could have I'm saying I could have okay you could have signed a kid could have flown over there and you could have got your ass whipped by Johannes yes yes you could have done I think everybody got well yeah and Vigo and Arvin yeah yeah there's a lot of excellent players over there no doubt okay so you played in you Travis you were not there for that right you you just won the World Championship well yeah unfortunately I'm sure it's gotten around a lot of people unfortunately my mom had some health issues that I had to tend to decide to cancel that last second and then I actually flew to uh to Germany the day before the whole thing started yeah so I was like jet lagged the whole time but I just I had like a just a crazy Whirlwind week to even get there so I was happy just to be there let me tell you jet lag is a real thing Joel yes it is real it is tough um it it sucks but uh you you just get through it so what I'm learning is I mean Neil McRae flies over for like every big tournament if if we just so I'm just gonna assume because of jet lag is why he places where he places otherwise he'd be like middle to top of the pack every tournament right I honestly don't know how he does it but it's hilarious he he gave me some very Sound Advice of how to properly sleep on a like a flight over the ocean it's it and Neil you can correct me if I'm wrong here I think it's you have two beers and a bowl of pasta pasta that's what I was told but Joel I didn't get to do that though but let's let Tom explain EPC and then I'll tell you my little my little tangent that'll only take two minutes of how much I dislike United Airlines and whatever Airline goes over over there it really seems so long ago but uh it's been a hot minute yeah uh so basically you start with 256 people and you're broken down into groups of 16 Joel 16 people and you play each person Head to Head okay Travis hates head-to-head he does yeah he does but he would have enjoyed this maybe but uh so so you have to be in the top four in your group to advance wow okay I was one game away from advancing and I held the tiebreaker with Vigo and I lost my game so I had beaten Vigo went to my game I'm like oh it's the same game I blew it up no problem then all of a sudden the Joel magic starts happening or you can't hit a shot that's not magic though it's a no it's a curse curse but but no it yeah so uh so then I got to enjoy everybody else playing and uh no it was good though the EPC was good nice and Neil Neil played in that as well how far did he get uh Neil got top 16 I think oh wow nice yeah okay so what um 32 top 16 something like that let me look I'm gonna look it up who um do you know off topic like top three he was 12. nice through the top three or four of that one do you remember who won that uh Usher won Jason zoller second good for them did uh Johannes play in that one uh he yeah he uh would be him in an earlier round this was the major tournament too yeah okay yeah there were a lot of huge names there not only from Europe but from the US was uh what is it smorgasbordin was he there was the name he's not there Josh made up no when uh when we had Josh uh Josh Sharpe on here the johannes's name came up and uh he's kind of this not like at least over here in the U.S because he doesn't come over here to play and but the guy is just like he's like I'm not a myth but he's like a legend like no he might as well be a man yeah well I'm jumping I'm jumping ahead that was for worlds let's let Tom finish EPC so maybe is if I my skill level to yours Travis versus your skill level too who's close which is the smaller Gap from my skill level to yours or yours to Johannes smaller Gap that's actually a tough question let's do Joel and Johanna so if you're around the United States and you travel all the way to the West Coast yeah was out yeah that would be the gap between Joel and Johannes perfect I think that's a great that was not the question but I think it illustrates it well I mean Travis is the top what 25 players but Johannes is just insane put it this way Joel yeah I've I've played against everybody like I think anybody that's pretty much in the top 100 I've played and playing against Johannes was probably outside of playing zmac at Expo it was like one of the few times that I felt absolutely helpless like it didn't matter what I was going to score didn't matter what I was gonna do Johannes was going to beat it and he was going to look much cooler while doing it like there was just he's like a robot he barely moves I mean he he shows emotion outside of pinball like he's a nice guy like he's fun he's fun to talk to and everything super nice but while he's playing I mean it's just like Terminator mode and it's just it's impressive to watch and if you go back and you watch the very like he made it all the way to you know finals and ended up winning winning world spoiler alert for anybody hasn't watched it but but he literally just got to where he was just teleporting to like billions of points on Corvette and doing the same thing on Indy 500 and you don't do that and you don't do that on those games in that situation either it's just it was just crazy the stuff he's able to do so I know um and like this is maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about but like Eric Stone I know people who said Eric Stone before once he has a shot dialed in he can just do the same shot for literally like a hundred times in a row like he's some people describe him as that like once he finds that shot he can't miss the shot um but then you have people like I think like an Escher or that has such a crazy con like understanding of the rules and the math at hand the way that he can dissect code and know exactly what he needs to do I'm just trying to like give a trait to some of these big players so Keith elwin like why what makes Keith elwin so great is it his rules knowledge is it his accuracy is it his ball control All the Above I mean I I would put Elwyn more in the uh ball control area like okay he couldn't settle in easily and once he finds a shot like he can hit that shot he can go to town on it you know and he can he can change his strategies according to what the pin's giving him too like you've seen it over the years if you watch a lot of his games over the past decade or so there's been plenty of times he's done something like that similar to make adjustments in the middle of the game I know he kind of did something similar like that at indisk when I was on Congo against him and he was just like peppering the right ramp between the pops like collecting a hippo bonus or whatever that was that I mean it got way up there I don't even remember if it got maxed out he was just doing something crazy getting up to three or four billion on that game and that's like that's the type of stuff people usually don't do you never see that but yet he's able to achieve something like that so that's that's kind of how I would put with the way the L wind does now with Escher Escher plays aggressive at times like he'll you know he'll know Edge machine he'll get on it he'll slap the [ __ ] out of the machine you know at times but he's the same way I mean all elite players they will dial in on a shot at some point you know and they all have Elite recovery skills they all have elite shot making ability now not everybody knows every single Nuance to a game there is several people that do but not everybody and at times you don't necessarily have to know like that's the dirty secret about tournament pinball that if anybody else is trying to get better you don't necessarily have to know the entire game or the rule set like the back of your hand you just got to know your path and you just got to know okay if I do ABC then I can do the next thing that's that's really what it amounts to it's not knowing every single little minute detail of it because you're not going to do everything on a pen like it's not unless you're playing it Expo or something like that you're not going to get to wizard modes too often in a competitive setting it's not impossible but you're just mainly just going your pathway so what is it though like why what is Johannes doing though that's so much better or probably not human probably something sent back from the future I mean there's a lot of things so the best way I described it to somebody playing him it was like it was like he had a magnet on both flippers because the ball would always find its way back there in a trap situation then he would just go so we do some flips hit some shots be trapped up hit some shots do some flips be trapped up so it's just everything seems safe like everything he shot at was he could get it back in control it seemed like it yeah even if it was like an in Lane like he's back under control even if it looked like it's going out lane little move back under control I mean it's it's very impressive to watch I would probably venture to say that it's highly likely that if he played anybody else in the world currently I think if they played a hundred times he probably beats everybody like more than 50 times he probably wins more than half the time against anybody else in the world he's just that good and that's not to say like oh everybody else is that bad I mean a lot of these players are Elite level players there just has to be someone that's just the absolute best right now and I mean I don't know I would be excited to see him come over and play in disc or something like that because I mean naturally you know one of the first times that we really got to see him up close and see him against high-level American players he was in an area that he was familiar with it's I'm sure he's played those games tons of times so yeah you could say that there might be a little home court advantage there but so I I would be curious to see him come over here and play in America against the top American players and see how that goes or even you know any type of neutral side not saying that like the place that we were at wasn't but you know what I mean like it's just it's different when you've got to travel that far and you're like Tom alluded to your jet lag you're away from home you're in a hotel for like a week and a half two and a half weeks I mean yeah there's there's a lot that goes into it maybe this is a maybe this is a really dumb question but um obviously um European games run on a completely different type of power not type of power but like they're what is it their voltage is different like it is a different power supply that's built into these I can tell you their water's different well we know water yeah no gas I figured yes or no gas tiny little stuff but I know the power the power setup in Europe is different than here did you feel any like where the flipper stronger weaker did they last longer any change like that or no no that was noticeable no I mean the game's played fine the only difference at Worlds I mean I can't speak to how the games played at uh where was it folda I think PPC tomcant though that was pretty legendary for the American players but I can't speak on that well yeah where was this so a lot of the older games are set up kind of tough in regards to nudging like you on a couple of the games you could not like oh um it was a good example um I don't know Dolly Parton uh there are a couple of games like if you just gave it like a little nudge like you were done it's yeah you tilt it out uh there there was an instance where uh Stone said he like stomped on the ground and it tilted the game um yeah fire had a really outrageous tilt Bob in it uh you know so there were there were just some setups that were like I understand why they did it because because of the quality of players and you know that but then like some of the stern games you could sit there and like throw them around and it was like and then you'd get like a danger and it was like well why is this set up like that but the other games you know were were nudging's a skill and you want to try to keep it in play uh you know those were set up tougher so I yeah I I just didn't agree with a couple of the setups but yeah what do I know I guess twitch partner every almost every Stern machine had a plastic protector on the Playfield no yes which was very solda are you talking worlds both oh so folda had the same thing yeah no which was very odd to me um and I I just I just remember the guy I'm looking at Godzilla I just remember the Godzilla there yeah and like it was just whoever put the flippers back on they were like up oh no like every shot was way early whatever something's down now something dropped would you drop Travis sounded a lot heavier than that which I'm I'm complaining to complain you know kind of thing but you know at the end of him yeah yeah and at the end of the day it's the same for everybody yeah you learn to adapt right or you should hopefully you learned I didn't yeah so yeah the European pinball championship and then you got to Worlds and worlds um I know like Keith Owen traveled over for that right a Usher I mean all the big names all the big names were there what is it to qualify you have to be it was top 100 players no top however many how many top 80. top 80 players in the world in 2000 at the by the end of 2022. correct yeah so um I all I I watch I mean this was a while ago this was a while ago but did it the final two came down to Johannes number one seed and wasn't this it wasn't the next guy like the 30th seed or something like it was some so Marcus yeah yeah he basically was on probably the biggest heater in the history of competitive Pinball it's pure Insanity I think so to give an idea we had to play I want to say it was was it seven rounds Tom for eight rounds of three games each I forget uh eight rounds eight rounds okay so eight rounds of three games each and it was the top 32. I think that's what it was 31 I think well yeah and not only that he had to get I think it was 13 points then like 17 points and 21 points he had to do something insane and 21 points is a perfect round yeah so he basically had to nearly win out against top tier players for nine games in a row because he was like at the bottom after just a couple rounds and so not only did he do that then he went on and I think he defeated uh Steven Bowden in the first round going to game nine and then I believe he beat Escher I think did he beat zmac before or is it zmac first yeah yeah zMAX so yeah yeah so then he beat zmac Zach McCarthy who's a world champion yeah yeah in the second round I think he even swept him 4-0 if I remember right and then he played Escher the next round and then won that and then he played I want to say was it Marcus sticks at that point or did he play I can't remember I forget but he was just on an absolute heater and then of course he took Johannes all the way to nine games as well so yeah which was just crazy yep well I know watching that so yeah the you you like you said you had to do the qualifying for it uh Tom you didn't qualify right I suck uh did Neil did Neil qualify I think he did I think he said no he didn't qualify he didn't qualify at ifpa 18. he was he was kind of in his own head he wasn't playing good and then you know he just kind of got flustered and he he knew when you're behind like Marcus was it's hard to come back so you're you're like I gotta I gotta do this I gotta do this and when it doesn't happen you just like fold like a deck of cards I mean you know yeah it's not I mean these are the best players in the world but I will say every matchup is he did play in the early before the later he played in the Epstein Cup oh that's what it is the episode which the U.S did win that by the way so yeah so he did he did come home with some Hardware yeah which which Neil did not play good on his first game and then his next two he I think I think he took first on uh Centaur and skate ball so the Epstein cup what's the rules to that uh like it's a team it's two teams right like a Europe a European team and a North America team is it how many players each team it's like eight eight players per team but how how are those eight people picked your rank it's the top eight us players that are willing to play and I think better though well there was only one that didn't make the trip and so Jared August who's extremely talented player one of the best in the US he didn't make the trip so therefore the spots went down one I think it was Colin who got the spot nice PowerPoint yeah so they they really need to do like the Ryder Cup where they have Captain's picks and then for Dodgeball I'll take you uh did was Johannes on the European team he was oh Johannes and I think they had Arvid and they had danielli and Vigo Vigo I mean they were stacked it wasn't a Neil McRae yeah I don't believe nil McRae was was part of that no okay just checking I love you Neil um okay so that was cool that was cool and that well how does that format work the 18 is that head to head or how does that competition go the the two teams of eight they play in groups of four but they have they each each team picks uh who they're playing with so like Neil played with Usher oh okay um and then I think Carlos played with Jason zoller Colin played with Steven Bowden and I think it was Raymond and Kaylee so you just pair up and then it's a point system so first gets yeah and then and then I guess you know the Americans pick some games Europeans pick some games and then they decide like who's playing who so it's it's pretty involved but it's uh it's a lot of fun to watch honestly cool yeah well congrats to the Americans or is it is it is it unfair to say Americans is it North America no is there any Canadian there well tielis was there but he wasn't on it yeah okay Epstein cup so we're just going to count as America America okay well cool and then you get to Worlds and I remember watching that and Travis I saw you had made it so I was watching you and um you went to a tiebreaker with a rather Young kid is Kid the right word how old was he not sure I think he can shave yeah 16 or 17. that's that's fair yeah still actually uh Tyler listens to the podcast very he was very excited to play Travis did somebody drive him to the tournament his dad was there I'm gonna go with kid then that's the barometer yeah no he he did excellent so he came in I think he told me that he was like the second or third to last rank in there because he's from New Zealand so it's kind of like a large type type thing but no he played exceptionally well I mean he made finals he kicked my ass so and I think he took a couple of games off of Marcus sticks in the second round also so I mean he did awesome good on Tyler for sure good on him that's really cool I didn't know he was from New Zealand I mean that's that's a trip I I'm not salty over losing at all because you know he was fun in the other direction so he was probably like super powered somehow right isn't that is that how that works I will so I will say this it was so freaking trippy because I would wake up and I would be like at first I was just like ah this isn't going to be a real thing like I'm fine and I'd be perfectly fine until the middle of the day then I would just hit a wall because it was like yeah yeah it was like I was drunk without being mentally impaired I mean it's wild if you look at me yeah I could tell you're really tired oh Tom was trying to like talk me through it he was helping me it was like it was like somebody dragging out somebody that's like drunk out of the pub you're like you're my best friend it's okay we'll get here but now it's I mean you know I I had to compete under the same exact conditions as everybody else I just it took everything in me just to qualify and make it through qualifying because there was like multiple rounds in which I had to act like I was perfectly fine but yeah if you watch me on stream like there I made it on there for a couple games you'll notice I was not perfectly fine I think I had like one game where I had 38 million on Congo I think something like that then my Tron game in which if I would have I think if I would have won that game I might have been close to a double buy so I just got like really lucky buying the dip and just staying up that that way and I think I ended up with like 2 million on Tron when Josh uh sharp got to like see a simulation on ball two or something like that so yeah I just yeah but I had fun it was enjoyable it was a good trip so I was glad to do it it was just it was crazy because I felt like the very last day right it felt like I was just a day or two away from finally being like adjusted and then I ended up having to come back home to the states and I had to do it all over and get adjusted again yeah it literally it took me a solid three weeks just to feel normal again just to be able to wake up not have to like live on caffeine the whole time but it was a lot of fun it was a great trip and I thoroughly enjoyed getting to hang out with everybody over there and meeting a lot of the Europeans and everybody that listens to this podcast like we definitely appreciate it surprisingly we actually have people from other parts to the world that listen so that's pretty cool that's really neat yeah um just with silver ball swag stuff seeing where some of it's shipped to it it literally gets shipped all over the world which is really uh humbling like that's uh that's awesome it's weird that uh the three of us who live in completely different states are talking over the internet and yet people all over the world listen to this so hey if you listen to this somebody's gonna pay for a Joel's golf cart so we appreciate it all you guys thank you yeah speaking of which patreon supporters thank you so much thank you so much for that um we have had a few um uh patreon supporters leave and and it usually the answer is just uh it's the patreon's not as active as they were hoping and I get it some of the other patreons out there do other things or calls to sell it Joel yeah [Music] at the end of the day that was always our thing with patreon was like this is just a way to support us if you'd like us too and if you do thank you thank you so much but unfortunately no we we're busy enough to try to schedule like uh if somebody wants to put 100 thousand into our patreon I will guarantee you Joel will drive his golf cart under your house personally yeah 100 000. I will make sure his golf cart gets there and we will cart your ass around wherever you want to go maybe we need a higher tier where we do you know uh well the three of us will Skype call you once a once a month it's gonna have to be a pretty high tier but um no it's just uh with the three of it's already hard enough to schedule just plenty time for us to talk this podcast is a lot of fun but yeah it's it's like it's just different 10 grand we'll get in a hot tub with you yeah if Tom stopped streaming and stopped his district 82 stuff and if Travis did a job outside no no no I'm saying if you stop doing that if I stop doing my streaming and all we did was focus on this pin but all this we could do a lot more of this podcast but unfortunately I'm just trying to keep my head above water raising four kids so yes what I'm saying though is anybody that buys our merch wherever it is that's awesome it's incredibly flattering same with the Zazzle stuff The Lunchbox we've gotten a few uh emails of people getting their lunch boxes which is awesome and uh you know all our patreon supporters I mean we really appreciate it it's it's incredibly undeserved but we really appreciate the sport and I want I wanted to say you know the European Community was very welcoming um just a great Community uh bulls and balls was fantastic uh Freddy's pinball Paradise was fantastic I mean I would I would definitely go back if I had the chance well in two years right two years you probably well I won't be there it will be in uh Austria oh okay and I probably won't make it anymore so Josh's rules all right by then so we talked about that yeah because it's clear that the IPA is only changing the rules specifically to you know Screw Tom Graphics okay well anything else anything else tournament-wise that we need to talk about anything new um nothing I just I knew we wanted to cover something we got it out of our system right like yeah no we just we flipped some flippers we play some games we yeah we drink some beer that's couldn't think of anything better to do honestly well I will say from watching it from afar it is a challenge and that's why I have even more respect to any of the people in Europe or Australia that like watch my streams late at night because to watch your stuff it was me staying up super late and then some of the stuff it was like okay they're getting into later rounds but I'm not gonna make it so I go to bed and then the first thing I do and I'd wake up would be like checking like what happened and what do I it's just that time zone is it's legit but um yeah mad respect to anybody that consumes our content live outside of the US that's pretty awesome pretty awesome um except for you Canadians your stupid smoke just suck it all back in they're not overseas though so what is it uh uh somebody on the stream last night um said what Canada is doing right now is an environmental terrorist attack they're just blowing their smoke down on us to which I thought was hilarious but anyways other stuff to talk about um what's kind of going on in our collections um I know I have spent a lot of time um with Foo Fighters Godfather and the Godzilla topper the Godzilla topper we talked about this a little bit last time Tom you are not on here so I'm curious to hear your thoughts the new mode I'm having a ton of fun with I'm having a ton of fun with I haven't tried it yet oh man you've got to um and one thing that really surprised me is like my wife does not care Godzilla my wife does not care about pinball at all she doesn't really like playing it that much but um on Father's Day this was the day before Father's Day she's like all right we can do whatever you want tonight do you want to watch a movie do you want to watch play board game or do you want to play Pinball I'm like Nicole I'm not gonna make you there wasn't a fourth option that was it that's all I got yeah daddy wants to play Pinball then so I said I was like I'm not gonna make you play Pinball she's like no I actually want to play Pinball I'm like I don't believe you but okay I've never heard those words out of my wife's mouth I know right so um so I showed her the Godzilla and I was like well hey you may actually really like this mode and because it's endless ball save for five minutes and she loved it like she wasn't faking it she actually loved it and it was because yep it was because how many more innuendos can I give you yeah five minutes I mean what else can I say here somebody's faking it yeah um well the reason I say that is because I came I was down here and I went to play another game and she actually played the mode Again by herself and that to me was surprising so oh my God it's you know I'm trying I know I know yeah I love you to death but this story is really moving forward so she played the game second time by herself okay that's a big deal that's a big deal yep that's how good I know uh-huh that's how good the king of the monsters right we gotta be professional here yeah yeah it's a Time attack guaranteed five minutes of fun endless ball safe guaranteed yep so while Travis composes himself here um I'm sorry Keith if Keith helwan's listening to this you know I'm trying to be professional to talk about how great your mode is okay but we actually played it and what I will say is um my wife genuinely enjoyed it and it's five minutes of ball safe so to get through the first phase you have to hit you have to kill every monster and it what I what I've really enjoyed is when I play Godzilla casually there are monsters that I avoid because I know I just I'm not good at them so like megalon is one of them nice Tom bagel on is one of them that's a that's a hard monster for me um but yet like this it forces you to do it and that's what I love it just feels like an amazing training tool it really forces you to hit the shots it and you miss it it doesn't matter you just keep going and then the the faster you beat phase one is that gives you more time for phase two and then for phase two is even more so you have to focus in on very specific shots multiple times which is quite a challenge to be honest I haven't beaten phase two yet I got really close I was one shot away just a heads up once you get through all the shots which the display is showing you you then have to hit the scoop and that's what screwed me over because I had 10 seconds of scoop yeah I hit my last job I thought I hit it I was like yes I hit it I hit the left ramp or whatever my last thing was and then it's like hit the shoot hit the scoop to for The Knockout blow and I was like are you kidding me so I had to get control and then I had like a one shot at the scoop and I missed it so I will beat it but I will just tell you like my brothers played it my brother-in-law's played it my wife has played it this is an incredibly fun mode for even novice players because it's endless ball safe it's great music great everything it's just one more thing it's kind of the icing on the cake of an already incredible game I'm a big fan big fan you're saying the mode gives you a chance to just Joel out yeah man yep yep so do you know what joeling out is like it's okay right oh yeah hell yeah we came up with this at Worlds yeah so when you Joel out or you go into Joel mode it's where you flip a lot and you break a ton of shots oh yeah but then you accidentally hit a shot and you advance your progress but you don't know you did it oh boy that's that sounds like me been there who made this up who was part of this I mean it might have been several of us pinball dictionary terms I don't know I just you make the mode sound fun so it's genuinely fun so is this mode tied to the the topper like it's a Topper only you have to have the topper to have access to them so I have to buy the topper now you've sold this mode so much don't worry because in like four months it'll be an Insider connect so don't worry that is not true [ __ ] I'm just I'm just saying why don't they do the promo video that says like Joel's wife is not faking it like they could have sold so many more there's a lot they could have done this guy crying behind the scene because he doesn't have a [ __ ] topper you're making me want the topper now it's a blast the way that you describe the whole mode it's really fun fact that your friends and family apparently like they approve yeah oh yeah and this is actually a good barometer when Joel's friends and family game this is brings up a lot though I mean this maybe it's a side note but like um we've talked we've talked a lot um on in some of our Facebook chats about like how hard it is to make code fun um and and how to make code fun for everyone right because if a game has the complexity and the depth needed for players like you and Tom to stay involved and stay entertained um there's a chance that code may be too complicated for me to enjoy because it's not like you gotta give me fun things close to the flipper that are early on in the code that keep drawing me back but it can't be repetitive like if it's a very linear game and I'm playing the same mode over and over and over and I never get to see the third or fourth stage of the latter like that to me is unfortunate because I know there's a ton of game there I'm never seeing um so but at the other end you if you have a game that's really where it's a shallow game but you have a ton of options and sure you get a ton of games to explore but then they don't keep you guys entertained because you guys can just explore it all and it's like whatever I don't there's nothing so the one game we keep coming back to of like well what's a game that does it well and the game we keep coming back to is Godzilla because Godzilla for me for a novice player the multiball you know you just bash the building enough you're going to get to a multiball you bash back at Godzilla enough you're gonna get to a multiball you are making progress on mode shots like even if you're breaking or hitting any shot the game the audio is rewarding you with feeling like you're doing something my dad made that comment he's like I don't know what I'm doing on Godzilla but it's making me feel like I'm doing something right because you're actually hitting shots you're in explosions you're hearing this you're hearing that and then next thing you know you're in a battle like there's so much there for the novice player but yet you the three of us I mean we've gone into death before the complexity of Godzilla and the way you can never you know in a tournament setting you're never locked out one if one path stops all of a sudden you can divert and go a completely different way it's balanced so well there's insane depth to the game too all the way to whatever king of the monsters Planet X and then there's even one further than that I don't know I just you guys are saying you like you like but we're saying Godzilla's code the way that it's structured it is such a good balance for all types of players yeah and I mean in all reality I think that there's basically three types of players right you have your player that doesn't necessarily mean their Elite level but you have your player that really focuses on tournaments really focuses on rules and going through the game that way right yeah you have your your casual to average player that may not play tournaments but they know their way around a pinball machine they could get to a wizard mode here than here and there they'll get generally through the first parts of the game and get to the mid game right and then you yeah yeah I would I would put you like squarely in that category and then you have the people that are very novices that have never played pinball before or just flipped their flippers like they're Ray Charles like it happened sometimes right so it's like it's like sometimes they just can't hit shots yeah exactly Tom it just it happens so you know the thing is those types of players they thoroughly enjoy pinball but they also they don't pay attention to the rules at all so if you ask them what starts modes they have no idea if you ask them about play field multipliers they'd have no idea you ask them how to like score a Super Jackpot on a multiball they would have no idea but what they do know is is what it feels like to hit a shot like whether they get a response from a call out a light show just some type of sound some type of haptic feedback for them through the Shaker motor whatever it could be that's the way that they operate and they they look for pinball moments like we hear that a lot but they especially look for that and a lot of the pinball moments are what right up the middle that's sure that's why I like attack from Mars Medieval Madness stranger things games like that that have some type of bash or some type of objective that's just straight up the middle it's just the most obvious thing for these players to go after so that's that's kind of where code goes you know that's they see that and then it's just I don't know I I think overall for the vast majority of pinball players they wouldn't know if they saw a balanced game and that's not to say oh they have no clue what's going on it's just that they don't pay attention close enough to scoring to see if something is unbalanced like like saying I'm gonna do this mode instead of this all the time because it's obviously a higher scoring mode and easier shots and easier to get through they probably don't notice those nuances at times and that's kind of the way that it is with Godzilla in a way that it's just so balanced but yet there are some modes to where you could get a little bit more scoring out of it but guess what you have to do something a little bit more skillful to do it and megalon falls directly under that and that's what makes that mode so much fun to do is that you could either come away like with the complete stinker and not hardly have any points or you could come away just like blowing the gates off the game in general so yeah that's what makes the game a lot of fun for me and plus like you talked about earlier the side quest and stuff like that that's that's what I like calling them like if I have something on the side to do as opposed to just doing my main progress for me that catches my attention a lot more especially in a home setting because then I can just part around and play the game different ways and that's that's kind of the way you can do like any game I guess but with Godzilla it rewards you getting secret combos all kinds of different city combos like you could play The Loop meta a lot of people don't realize that there's even a loop better on there you could do that as well so yeah I mean it's just it's a well-balanced game with that because you're asked to hit every single shot that's in the game and every single shot matters at one point or another and that's a sign of a of a well-rounded game yeah totally and I just think it's Yeah the more I play it the more it really I don't know establishes to me just how well rounded the game is to all different levels and what I think is interesting is the two other games that I have here and how different they are because Godfather I've had a lot of my friends and family would step up to this over the last few weeks and every single person is like that is a beautiful game they look up to it they're like this game is gorgeous then they're like this game feels like Godfather um but they play it like twice they just feel like it it you know it is a it just they're like I have no idea what's going on and to them I get what you're saying with moments but there's so many lights there's so much light show and then most of the time a novice player is looking for some sort of something mechanical they want to interact with like what does that thing do and you know this is not an insult to anything that Eric did but like you got the main bash guy in the back but it's not he's not the most interactive thing um and I don't know there's just so much going on with that it just like it's not pulling in any of the novice people in my life they just like and that's my view with a lot of jjp games is that the code is actually very like there's a lot of depth there in very complex code and it takes a lot for me to even grasp what I'm doing I've only streamed it once we're gonna stream it again in a week and I I feel like I have to take notes you know to like learn these types of games so for some people they just chew this up because they love that type of complexity but it just to me it does not strike the core a chord with a novice player like they missed that it it goes back to that if everything in your game is a moment then there is no moment you know what I mean that's where CNR suffered from that everything was just like boom in your face and it's not saying that that's necessarily a bad thing it's just like we talked about the extreme casuals they live for a moment right but it's got to feel like an earned moment as well that you're doing something a couple of times that eventually something cool happens whereas if it's just like everything's popping off at the same time you have no clue where it's coming from because the ball might not be staging or there might be like multiple things stacked on top of each other and then you've got a light show that's all over the place and that's not just Jersey Jack I mean there's games from every single manufacturer out there for just something like that so yeah it just it just gets confusing if you don't necessarily space out your moments in that way well Tom you have a you have a um a Godfather you've you've had one and I know you also have a Foo Fighters um some of your newer purchases here but like overall Godfather is that a game how much time have you spent on it is this game growing on you is it kind of getting I don't know playing right like what are your thoughts having owned it a little while now it's a game I gotta spend more time on uh reason being is I wasn't playing it a lot because I was going to Germany so I'm like I know this game isn't going to be in the tournament so okay yeah avoid it but now that I'm back I'll I'll put some more time on it uh but I mean I've enjoyed the time I've had on it I haven't done anything like Carl has done yeah um yeah I still I still have to watch his stuff and really dig into it but uh he's isn't his goal a trillion Point job cash out yes and he's going to do it because I know with the weapons the weapons are essentially the weapons are essentially multipliers so you can get all the way up to 10 times and then you can hit that shot and I think you can get that up to like two or three times on top like I don't know whatever and then there's something else where if he levels something else but he's he's built up some absurd multiplier and then he's like doing something ridiculous in a mode like it's a like it's insane the stack that he's building but if he does it boom like what's hilarious is like that that game the scoring is just off the cuff compared to all the other Jersey Jack games I mean like dialed in you're gonna maybe get a couple million uh you know Wizard of Oz if you do a million you you probably you know got to the end of the game uh but that game yeah there's uh there's huge scoring potential compared to uh all the other Jersey Jack games yeah I haven't made the scoreboard yet the lowest score on the scoreboard 75 what are you doing all day it's a freaking hard game oh no you were like historic opportunities here in Joel's like I just I'm not even on but that's the thing is I'm like I've I've played it a handful of times I haven't played it a ton I need to play it more but then when we streamed it it was really just like learning it's like oh I got you but you're in multiball a ton but just because you're in multiball doesn't mean you're scoring points like it just it's not like a give me there like oh I'm in multiple Here Comes 100 have you been using the multiplier so that's the thing is the more that I've streamed it people are like you have to be doing that multiplier constantly yeah like all the time and what we're talking about is when you use Spinners you can get that right okay when you're having a multiplier in your hand the whole time all the time so when you hit either spinner left spinner or right spinner you start building up your weapons but it'll like build up to a threshold of like two times and you have to use it and then it'll go to three times and you have to use it so you have to keep using it and building it until you get all the way up to the 10 time and then you can just keep using 10 time over and over again but you have to build it up every time if you don't use it you can't build it up yeah so you have to it's basically like rip and Spinners what senior meters maxed out and then using it and to keep doing it and doing it and doing it so some people are like oh yeah I spend all of ball one doing nothing but trying to build up my multiplier and then they start getting into jobs and to me that's I'm I'm still playing the game I'm still learning it but the number one thing that I don't like with a pinball game is when I feel like there's one thing I have to do like when I start the game I have to do this first and with GNR I felt like I had to get a bunch of certain patches before I got into my first mode and so every time I hit the start button I was focusing on just doing patches or if in this if all of a sudden well you're telling me I have to focus on the multiplier before I do anything else like I don't want that you have this huge game here that I want to play I don't want to have to focus on one thing yeah I want to be okay you have to do that I mean you have to do that but I don't think it has I don't think it has to be a focused yeah yeah true I mean you could do that during multiball you can do that whenever I'm sure that's you know yeah it's still a side thing to the game but it's an important thing to boost your score yeah well so GNR I'm still enjoying it but there's there's still a lot more I need to learn and then that brings me to Foo Fighters the other game that I have been playing I streamed it last night what I think is hilarious with Foo Fighters is the first night my brother and I streamed it we came away from this game and I came away from the game going like crap do I have to buy this game like it blew us away the way it shot the flow my brother came off of it and he's like that game was so much fun and it was just the shots and hitting things to be honest we didn't know a ton of what we were doing we knew how to like get into a van mode but we were really learning the game but it was just like the immediate kinetic satisfaction and the immediate just joy we came out of the game the animations the call outs the music everything it's like this is really really good well now that I'm learning more and more and more about the game I feel like I'm almost overthinking it I need to Joel out apparently I'm like we streamed it last night and the game kicked our butt and part of it was because now all of a sudden we're like focusing on upgrading our van upgrading your van is so powerful but those shots bring so much side to side action in the game that it's just like the outlines were just destroying us they were eating Us Alive and so I'm pretty sure like the first stream I did it I got to either DC or Austin like I got through three modes and I was there and now the best I did was like two and a half modes and it just I'm almost overthinking it because of the complexity there and my fear with Foo Fighters is like because upgrading the band is so powerful I don't want to feel like I can't play the game until my van's upgraded every single time like that was one of my worries with Deadpool was I was like well I don't want to get into a battle unless I have Wolverine you know lit or you have a you have an easy path though like why not are you trying to do this all in single ball can you upgrade the van in multiball I thought you couldn't I thought maybe has that changed because I felt like it wasn't oh well there we go I I I well even multiple I would just go ahead and just play your first mode out if you feel like you can find ramps just play Los Angeles combo like just jam on some shots that right ramp is a hard shot in my mind from the left flipper there's two other ramps yeah the left ramp backhanding for the left flipper not a problem the left hand the left ramp from the right flipper you have you better hit it or you're drilling a post and you're in trouble so what does that tell you you need to do from the right flipper oh get better or post Passover and do it from the left flipper neither just hit the spinner then the side ramp you are overthinking this like I just just take what the game's given you okay like that's all you got to do and so pretty much you can use unless it's changed suddenly you can use your overlord multiball just to jam away on on the targets there on the drop targets and get your uh van mods yeah and plus the bomb the bomb is worth using now so yes now they kind of change that around to where you don't get basically negatively dinged yeah from using it so so for anybody that doesn't know the bomb when you upgrade there are three drops in the middle of the play field when you if you hit all three down there and there's a paddle behind it and you just keep hitting that paddle before the drops come back up and that's how you upgrade whatever lit weapon was lit when you dropped them down one of them is a bomb what the bomb does is basically gives you shots when you get into the mode previously if the bomb gave you three shots that's great you progress further in the mode but you earned nothing for those three shots that it gave you so if you Max the bomb out and it gave you I think it's eight shots you could complete a mode in like one or two shots problem is you're getting only one or two shots worth of points so there are some certain people that were completely avoiding the bomb because they're like no it it basically takes away points for me I can't so now that has changed now when you use the bomb and it gives you the shots it gives you the points you would have gotten for that so now I watched Chuck War it was straight down the middle he streamed it early on If he if he fully max out the van so that gives you Max time Max points and Max shots hit he was like starting a mode finishing the mode in two shots and getting like 400 plus mil million points like it's it's just boom there it all is because he Focus so it's one of those well what do you want to do do you want to hit those shots in the mode or do you want to just focus on it like if you can get really good at hitting the drops down consistently and over and over again you could really do some damage on that game just because of the perks of the van um but I don't know it's a what I think is what's cool about Foo Fighters is coming back to what I was saying you know Godzilla is such an incredibly well-rounded game Godfather gorgeous game incredible assets beautiful to look at but it's not grabbing I just don't think it it touches the novice people like it doesn't entertain them crazy well I think the Foo Fighter Foo Fighters does entertain novice very well I think it can be very fun to just stop up and play but I think there are some people that are complaining that this code isn't deep enough or there are people like really good players feel like they're like yeah I can blow through all six cities and I'm done now I understand the final wizard mode isn't in it there's the combatron mode isn't in it I think the fubot mode is in it which is like a task based thing you have to do five different things um this is Tom Tom you have really grown to love this game Foo Fighters yeah I like it so what is it about Foo Fighters that like has really I don't I think I think you said I think your exact words were I hate Godzilla and now I love Foo Fighters it was it was something like that it was something along the lines hate in Godzilla weren't working yes I have this hate with Godzilla because I do so bad in tournaments lately that I just I just want to get a flamethrower and [ __ ] burn it to the ground but look at that I like it yeah but no Foo Fighters I think the shots are just so accessible and Foo Fighters that it's a little easier um there's good flow um I don't know I just I just like the way uh I I like it I just like the design and the uh the rules so far I think do I think it needs to be a little deeper sure but I I enjoy it for what it is so far so how do you and this is you know this is us giving direct notes to uh Raymond Davidson who who's clearly listening right now um so we're gonna go ahead and tell him how to do his job better is the goal um he so there's I mean you can only do so much with inserts what I don't think that's possible you don't think Rite Aid can improve no I think that's awesome it's too good that's a lie uh last night on stream um there was a time when I was in a mode my Fork was up but there's no ball in there there's no ball in there so I was ready with with the new code new code .95 find it with love Raymond Davidson that fork was up I'm bashing a fork with no ball behind it I can't I can't beat my mode oh my God I was saying he's ripping his earphones why is my Fork up right go watch the stream Ray it's right around an hour explain what's going on um I can tell you right now it wasn't Tanya's code it was definitely race code that's that is I think we know that for a fact um no but so Ray I mean there's six there's six cities there's two maybe we just need a rush there's no that'll be just no no just duh destroyed me and then there's the overlord mode but it's like if if really high-end players are kind of blowing through this game I don't know what do you do what do you do at that like you don't want to make the modes harder because that hurts everybody else like what how do you I mean it's just it's an easier design is the thing and that's why a lot of casuals and a lot of average players are extremely drawn to it because just like I said shots are all very accessible I mean it's it plays a little bit quicker in spots but you're not necessarily like as long as you avoid trying to forehand the left ramp you're really not in danger with any of the shots in particular so that's what leads to a little bit longer ball times anyways and that's pretty much what leads to people like we're seeing a lot of people get through the game and wonder okay what else is there to do but I mean you still gotta play play exceptionally well if you want to like truly do everything in the game like getting Austin and DC and who bought multiball and getting all your van mods completely maxed out that still takes effort and work it's not like everybody does that but it is understandable how people feel like okay there may not be much here because I mean on the surface there's not too many like side themes to necessarily extremely focus on it's just it's one thing it's almost like there's side things that happen during you doing your main thing so what I mean by that is for instance getting a fubot right you got you have to collect these parts but in order to collect these six parts you have to do various tasks in the game but several of the tasks are for instance Area 51 multiball start it you got to do that you're going to do that anyway score an Overlord multiball Super Jackpot I mean you're gonna play your first Overlord you're going to have a shot at doing that so it's not like these things are just guaranteed but it's kind of like you're gonna play through the game anyways to achieve that whereas there's some stuff in other games like I'm a Godzilla for instance you may not necessarily see some of the things on purpose or without doing them on purpose like a rampage or something like that whereas other parts jet fighters you'll do just playing through the game so that could be part of what it is but let's face facts too Foo Fighters is still very much in its infancy when it comes to code I'm sure there's tons of other stuff that they have in mind that they want to do and overall right now with what's there it's fun oh it's not it's not as if it's not fun to do all the things I mean bot frenzy it's pretty cool just seeing how much you could you know bring up that value it's fun doing the in-lane chatses to get the 2x 4X it's overall there's lots of fun elements to the game itself now you know they're gonna figure it out in terms of where to take code because I've seen it feels like a lot of people what they're very concerned about it's not necessarily the depth of rules it's the call outs I see that more than anything on Facebook or even on the Foo Fighters group they're they're all concerned about extra call outs so Jack danger was on the Marco specialty stream today and I only caught a little of it but what I did see was um apparently it did say on that stream there are more call outs coming but there will not be any call outs from the band like that's that is I think I think that was clearly said at this point like no don't like don't hold that but there were there are more call-outs coming um yeah there was um pin monk pen monk actor actually Victor um said on pinside there was a post in in what he was referring to was um Deadpool Deadpool the code was good but it wasn't until 0.96 there we go there's a flipper fan right there or the the power supply fan um he said it wasn't until Deadpool .96 when they added mech suit multiball that it really Deadpool code really became great like where it is today and and for those that you don't know Mexican multiball what's cool about that is is the whole time you're playing uh a combo anytime you combo you can and then you cash them out you're collecting them and then you you actually actually collect them with the scoop once you get to 45 so that's something you're kind of just doing gradually with throughout the game once you get to 45 it gives you this little kind of random mini wizard Mode called mech suit multiball which is actually a blast it's a really cool fun mode but it's kind of completely separate from everything else in the game um that happened in 0.96 of the code we just had 0.95 of Foo Fighters so I know the combatron co like mode is not multiball yeah that could be something very similar I know there's already stuff built in the game where you're mapping out different combos so maybe there will be some sort of requirement so that could be a whole nother thing to like okay yeah I've already got through three three cities I did DC oh wait I'm only one or two combos away from this thing let me go ahead and knock that out like there could be some other side ones I know I love bot frenzy already maybe they have more than one type of other bot related modes in there that could be really valuable yeah there's stuff like that they can sprinkle in yeah and it's funny you mentioned that that was one of the things that's it's almost feels like the Bots are a big part of the game yeah right so it would be pretty cool if there was just certain modes that were kind of tied in to the bot award besides just the bot frenzy is that that is pretty neat to have just some type of mode that's running in the background there but you have to actually start it to where you have to do a bunch of things to get to that point and then you have to hit the left ramp to get it going so yeah I I like that in general as well and I I think we're probably going to see more more code for sure I mean there's not there's not a wizard mode in it yet a final wizard mode just like I said there's not even one the multi balls aren't even in it there's more call outs coming so I would just tell everybody that's out there that's wondering about that just be patient sure yeah it's gonna come I just realized they could do like you have the UFO which is how you um you know you bash that UFO kind of captive ball in the back and that's how you get your your boom shots I don't know exactly what that your your ray shots where you can your your tractor B tractor thing is what they call it yeah but it's like they could they could I'm not saying they will but they could have a mode like once you've done so many UFO hits then you qualify that mode I mean there's there's things like that where they could sprinkle in other things throughout the code where it's things you are doing throughout the game I mean Godzilla has UFO multiball I've never been to it where you destroy so many UFOs there's a whole thing there so it's like sprinkling in cool little modes like that of progressive shots or Progressive Progressive hitting of different different things could be really really neat but you're right Foo Fighter code is not done but it still is a ton of fun I'm having a ton of fun with that game I know there's a lot of them out there and people are enjoying them um you did say Bond code I actually watched uh Jack Danger on Deadpool did a stream of the latest Bond code and to be honest they are fleshing that game out there's a lot more in that game than when I had it and when I was streaming it I saw a lot more animations I actually saw I mean I'm pretty sure all six villains are in all six henchmen though the bond women are in it now um which which brings in a really interesting multiplier aspect which that I think I think points are going to get pretty nuts with that what you can do with the multipliers um the Q modes they're getting to the point where if you play the Q mode the bot the villain mode the henchman mode and the bond girl from a particular movie then that inserts that lights that mini wizard mode uh there's like a so there'll be a mini wizard mode for each movie there's going to be a mini wizard mode for the first time you complete six of anything so it's either six Q modes six villains six henchmen once you complete six of those boom there's your first mini wizard mode and then apparently the next time you do the next six things there would be your second one but apparently the way they're setting it up is you're actually going to be able to select which wizard mode so it's not like like if you're really good at doing villains you're not you're not gonna you won't have to have the same wizard mode for completing the villains every single time you play so they are really fleshing that game out and there's there's people saying um that's Lonnie code and Lonnie's stuff usually takes a while stranger things took a while Guardians took a while and I from what I'm seeing bond is is really fleshing out it is getting a lot better so if you own a bond or you're really all in on bond I you know keep holding out I think that game is getting better Tom you have a pro you had it on location is it still don't have it anymore never mind none of us have a bond but it is cool I mean I'm happy to own everything Joel I know I know but I mean our house is that what you're saying yeah uh what's that it wasn't an earnings Powerhouse location did all right something I honestly I haven't heard I mean just be flat out honest I have not heard anybody say that bond is just destroying on location and I think a lot it doesn't have anything to do I wouldn't say that has anything to do with the code with the design I think it's simply just just the theme yeah you agree I agree and and I've heard some really I think it's really cool shout out to Jason in in the pinball party podcast but he's had kale kale Hernandez and um is it Emily it's the it's the owner I feel if that's not I feel really bad but it's the owners of electric bad arcade um I hope it's Emily I really feel bad if it's just like a great name I'm sure I'm sure you'll get it Rachel God I feel terrible Joel she's really good anyways um they've been talking about like what like apparently freaking Toy Story just crushes like they are having they are getting crazy good money with Toy Story they're also saying that they don't have to like do anything with it like it's the thing doesn't break um which is awesome as soon as you say that yeah well apparently it's not breaking and they're they're doing very well with it um and then uh they said Scooby-Doo is just killing it like they they have had to do stuff with it but um just killing it killing it so um those both are strong themes like yeah Scooby-Doo Toy Story four no but Toy Story is the kids the kids they run up they see Toy Story oh yeah her name I feel so bad okay oh I need somebody else to talk so I can actually focus on what I'm trying what's going on Travis you know I'm just chilling you know keeping it real while keeping it safe how about yourself good doing good uh I wish Joel would [ __ ] hurry up with us I know I can't type can you imagine Tom if we were on a podcast that you know I don't know thousands of people listen to use the pre-production time to actually I don't know be prepared okay I can't I can't find it I'm all over pinball party's Instagram and he's got great pictures of I feel terrible anyways you should I really I really hope your name is none of the names you said I said Rachel and Emily or something like that I feel though is it Sarah uh it's definitely not Sarah yeah Brenda Jane what's sad is I'm pretty sure I've emailed her because I emailed her a long time ago saying how great her merch was Leslie Michaela I think we're close Abby I can't I can't think of any other female names oh Monica my wife's name Monica here we go here we go we're gonna get this Rachel Rachel Rachel I was right Rachel thank God I actually knew that you knew it was Rachel the whole time yes all right well I'm glad I got this support anyways uh anybody that sat through that thank you for that uh what do I have okay let's just review our notes over here so European Vacation got it Joel doesn't know [ __ ] don't know why you wrote that okay got it current stuff useful Joel's in a weird spot because he actually has money now ah yes so what I meant by I'm in a weird spot is um I sold Deadpool I sold Deadpool now weeks ago and um I that money is just sitting here it's just sitting here holding it burning a hole in my pocket the goal is to buy a Cactus Canyon SE plus with it and um once again I freaking love that game and it's when we were talking about code earlier there's you said novices like moments there are so many cool little things in that game that you can just immediately enjoy whether it's bashing bar the the quick draw with the with the the the what's the word um drop targets popping up and you just have to quickly hit them the train I mean there's some really cool Max it's a good team Quick Draw I said Quick Draw no you did okay but I was trying to take a drop Target um oh you couldn't remember the word drop Target if you think Foo Fighters are shallow let me tell you something I know I know I know I know I know but like what I found is it just it immediately brings me and my friend the family Joy like it's just a fun game even though I have technically see the end of it I have beaten the game so do you like it because you guys are into the old western type or is it because you've been in the game it's just it gives me there are just multiple things in that game that I find immediately enjoyable every time I do them because it makes you feel like you're Johannes sure it makes you feel like a better player because it's an easier game but yeah but even if I'm with that even if I'm looking at it that way and I'm thinking okay I want and we've had this discussion before I want a game like that that type of style that type of code um really good Max easy to understand that's what brings me to the Medieval Madness the the Monster Bash you know that type of game but all these like Medieval Madness the cost of those games now are absurd are crazy high and then even Monster Bash it's like if you if you want an SE um which has you know the lights in the bigger screen you're looking at almost 10 grand and it's just like I can't like they're so high that I can't pull the trigger on that but a Cactus Canyon I feel like you're getting more for less than 10 grand um and then but now there's you know there's a bunch of cactus candies that are coming out used there's there's big questions of what's going on with cgc but anyways that's what my money is being held onto but yet I am starting to look at some of these other games where it's like is there is there another game that I should pick up just have fun with for a few months with the with the idea of selling it when an sc plus is actually available um but the more that I've been looking at the market here's your transition to our next thing use games in stock the market is really doing some weird stuff right now um I think there's there are a lot of games on the market right now there's a lot of games for sale and I saw this earlier today there are Distributors now that have Godzilla premiums in stock and they have Foo Fighter premiums in stock most of what Stern has to offer you can buy from somebody for not it's not like they've crazy marked up or anything they're in stock they are available so most new inbox games that you want are there are and and now we had a ton of games released at the beginning of the year there are some people that are kind of getting over Foo Fighters or they're like okay I've played it I've had a lot of fun with it there are some people that are getting over well gtf has kind of come and and it's not out nobody's played it but people are kind of starting to forget it where are the lunch boxes I know yeah right Guns and Roses though there's there's not Guns and Roses Godfather there's a lot of these that are new in stock there are you could get an Ultra Man for 6200 right now oh yeah Halloween yeah Scooby-Doo there's some there's people that are already getting bored of Scooby-Doo there are people that wasn't there already Godfather Les for below 10. yeah oh you've seen and then there's like a GNR Le that we solve for 79.99 or something like that there's so it's just like there's a lot of even the modern like the brand new-ish games cactus Canyons there's a bunch of cactus Canyons used that are out there in the market it's just I feel like people are waiting for uh Pulp Fiction because that's the only new game that hasn't actually come out yet which I did just see on app arcade apparently they're planning on making some with the normal coin door the the suzo half coin door or whatever for location I think they're they have a uh they're planning October I think is now what they're saying is they're planning on doing that sooner than later to get some of those out on location but they said the mother flipping additions like those aren't happening until probably February of next year like it's yeah so buckle up you got a while for the Shocker yeah purely shocked by that but I just I I don't know I don't know what's going on the market here are we at a point where we it's flooded or are we just at a weird because everybody you know shot their loaded at the beginning of the year with five games we're just sitting here waiting on what's next nasty comment uh you know I feel like shot your load can be something besides just sexual could be wrong not to Travis [Laughter] but I don't know I mean venom venom is the rumor but now there's basically what you're saying is like Supply is outpacing demand at this point and it hasn't been like this in a long time I mean it's what happens too in the supply chain just kind of works itself out in a way and just like you said there's just so many games out there right now and it's so we're gonna wait summer has historically not been a good time to sell pinball machines yeah so I'm I'm grateful I've sold Deadpool but I'm not I don't feel like I'm in this crazy rush to buy a game right now especially if the idea is I want to buy it just to own it for a few months play the heck out of it then to sell it again because I have no guarantee like I just I don't know there were I feel like over the last few years there were times where I just felt no hesitation to buy a game because I knew I could flip it a few months later for the same price if not a little more almost but right now it doesn't feel like that it just there's there's a lot of games out there there's a lot of games out there yeah if you can sell a used game that's still in production for right at MSRP like good on you if you can pull that off but yeah it's it's not happening in general just because now that supply has met demand at this point and that's why we're even seeing some uh some premium Foo Fighters being listed at a map with free shipping I mean I'm seeing that around and so stuff like that it's just kind of you know it could just be one of those things toward the major boom that's happened is finally just reach that point at top the mountain and we're just going to kind of just chill out there for a little while until the next game comes along but yeah there's just there's just a lot of games on the market right now it is it is summertime and what I'm most curious about is once Stern moves to a new Factory here in August to see where production goes from there are they going to try to produce more games is the demand going to be there I mean how is that going to work out that's what I'm curious about that's a good question yeah I I don't know and there's rumors of you know they've said they're only doing two cornerstones but two cornerstones they so they've they've done Foo Fighters they've done one this year and then Stern's kind of they've done this few years now where they announce a game right at the end of the year so they like don't even count it for that year they count it as next year's game so we will probably get a game rumor is it'll be elwin's next game right at the end of the year so between now and the end of the year we're looking for something once again there's already Comic-Con advertisements out there on I think it says play Stern's latest release at Comic-Con comic-cons in a few weeks it's in it's in Late July so that's the question are they really are they talking Foo Fighters are they talking like the next game if the next game's Venom once again Todd McFarlane I think is his name um is is supposed to be in their Booth again he's the creator of venom but now um the pinball party podcast Jason actually they said there was this post on Reddit it was this some guy that apparently is credible said apparently no Stern is actually planning on releasing another game between now and Venom they're saying it's not a vault it's a relaunch and that's an interesting thing and the the conversation that Jason and kale went down was well if it isn't a vault then it can't be a retired game it has to be a currently active game and if it's a if it's a relaunch is that kind of a or not relaunch it's a I forget the wording they use but it seems It's almost like an Elvira situation Elvira was never retired but then they released a new edition of Elvira so it's kind of a well what games current right now you know like like obviously um Star Wars was never retired but then there were Star Wars comic book art so it's like another version of the game well what they were hinting at is because Jurassic Park just had its 30th Anniversary I think it was that what if there was a 30th anniversary of Jurassic Park I'm cool why not I don't care like that's if they do that that's great but um at the same time there are people right now that have Jurassic Park Pro in premium in stock like they're in stock so in these collectors these Avid you know Greg bone Jurassic Park collectors they probably already have either an Le or a fully modded out premium they probably already have their Jurassic Park game so now you're gonna release another version of it I don't know I mean I I have no idea what that if there's any truth behind that if there is I don't know what other game it could be that's a non-retired game because I'm thinking through the only games that I can think of that aren't readily available that aren't retired even iron maidens were just made and some people have those in stock um is what like Deadpool Deadpool's not in stock anywhere but like everything else is kind of in stock everywhere I don't I don't know I don't know what's going on so it's just weird it's just weird where we're at right now um but if you're looking to buy pinball machine you got a lot of options you got a lot of options when it comes to buying a pinball machine right now um but yeah I know I'm personally really looking forward to Venom my son freaking loves Spider-Man so when I get a chance to stream one of those I I'm just theme alone I know that game's gonna be a hit in my house um he'll probably just want me to play it for the sake of playing it um but I also I'm Brian Eddy's pretty creative you're can be very creative with his layouts and I'm I'm curious to see what he brings to the table so I don't know we're just in a weird spot I don't do you guys agree is that a weird Tom's probably not thinking about buying a game because he says he has no money anymore I don't have any money is nobody I don't know I don't I mean it's just it's just the result of the time frame it's it's literally as simple as that I mean summer months just historically slower combined that with so many games that came out right around Texas pinball Festival everybody I guess like you said Joel to quote you shot their load early on in the year and they've got their games I mean that's that's pretty much what it is and I mean it's like anything else as soon as other games come out we'll just see this go all over again you'll see the rush to go buy whatever's on the line that's being produced by Stern and then you'll see games go up for sale used games it's just how it is it's Ebbs and flows of it all what I can't say though is it's all good like well maybe there's a few games that aren't great but the majority of pinball that we've gotten in the last even two years or more has been really good pinball like really good pinball yeah and it's like anything the supply had to catch up eventually the demand and it's still huge the industry is still massive I mean look how how many companies are producing pinball right now yeah look at how big all the events Expos just tournament pinball how big everything's growing people watching streaming on Twitch everything is still rapidly growing so well Twitter it's just yeah almost entirely because of Tom graph I mean we know that oh yeah that's proven at this point that thousand percent yeah well one of the things I was very impressed with six streamer and you're top six top six pinballs for sure something I was actually very impressed with I clicked on Twitch the other day just to see if there was any tournaments on or something like that and it said there was a hundred and twenty people watching watching on there right I think okay there's one big tournament on there no there was eight or nine streams going along and yeah they all had eight to 15 people in each one so I think that's excellent that people are kind of curating their own little ecosystem and their own little twitch stream right there and just doing what they do it's it's pretty neat to see yeah I've been not trying to toot my own horn but I've been um I went to YouTube this year and to to I was really worried about that because that's one thing that is really useful on Twitch is you can just go to pinball and then you can see who all is playing pinball YouTube doesn't have that YouTube doesn't have that type of uh of way to find uh um you know live stream so to see people turn out to watch My Stream I know they're either deliberately doing that or they just happen to be opening up YouTube and happen to be subscribed to flipping out at the time and that's where they'll see that I'm live so it's I know it seems a lot more deliberate when people show up but it's it's gaining its own little you know ecosystem of people that come consistently every Wednesday night and I I would love to see more people to see that platform grow even more because I know yeah it's I don't know it's cool it's cool to see things are growing um but yeah there's there's a lot more nap arcade's been killing it nap arcade's been killing it right now with a ton of rumors and I don't rumors I don't get super excited about rumors just because I don't is it all about the spinal tap pinball machine oh no I on a random side note there uh huge huge shout out to uh Dr John and Ozzy Man pinball podcast or the Aussie pinball podcast it's it's on the pinball Network he interviewed Mike I don't know the guy's last name I can't say it the the owner the main dude at home pin and it is one of the most incredible things I've ever listened to if you're into pinball listen to that podcast um the guy really into Mike weren't you the guy is like clearly smart but I've never heard somebody so confident in everything he says um so you got to play the Thunderbirds I know everything he says but that's the problem is he saying anybody in pinball media that's ever said anything about fingerboards Thunderbirds we've clearly never played it or we're only piling on to get our five minutes of fame or 15 minutes of fame or the record I will go on a record it's a piece of [ __ ] you could you can quote me on that so Tom's going on a record I'm gonna go on the record and say I have played it yeah played it at a tournament and I was an a-hole enough that I was the bus driver and you know what game I picked you picked it I picked that game I was gonna be game one because you know how good it was right yeah we had an opportunity there was four players that were gonna play this game for three balls we were gonna play 12 balls okay we got through one and a half balls and the game shut off and stopped working that's the last time I played Thunderbirds well I gave it a shot clearly The Operators it clearly wasn't a motherboard issue that was one thing he went off on is he he basically described all pinball manufacturers as complete morons that are that are basing their game on a motherboard because apparently every motherboard is only meant to work for like two years so he's like all these manufacturers are charging attention ones just well crap out so fast that's my question is like what is this guy complaining like what is the difference like what does he mean by mother are you talking about the motherboards are you just talking about the spike tube node system he didn't clarify anything he just said the motherboard all I can think of is I mean like like a jjp game is genuinely running on a computer like there is a full-fledged computer with a separate hard drive running in that machine but I know like the I'm pretty confident like the p-rock system is not that that way it may maybe we're just getting we're going to base ourselves on like semantics because the the little machine that's running everything is basically the size of Raspberry Pi while yeah the stern it's a whole CPU board and then a bunch of node boards but does he count a Stern CPU as a motherboard like what I don't know but whatever it is because his his is running off of something but whatever he's using is far superior far superior it's not gonna whatever how do we even get on talking about home pins and just go listen to the it is oh yeah so great it is such an enjoyable podcast to listen to um I don't know but at the same time I don't think I'll ever buy a home pin game based on what the guy said and he also said very clearly he is not making games for pinball people that's not his he's not his it's not his bag that's what he kept saying it's not my bag he doesn't care about rules baby he just he just wants awesome powers no his view of pinball is him and a buddy drinking beer flipping the game around it's all about mechanical he just wants to see mechanical things happen on the Playfield he does not care about score play a [ __ ] bag of tell too he doesn't care about score at all like is that important he's like if if you're if my buddy it's just the number one [ __ ] important thing about pinball he's like feisty I love it but I'm just stating facts what is what is Joel like repeating right now what I said earlier that the extreme casuals they made like what he's describing is exactly what we see here's the problem your game still has to be good like people still have to actually enjoy playing it though apparently it has to have moments in it you don't so you can't just have something that's mechanical that doesn't have the sound right and the light show with it also you gotta build up the whole atmosphere if it's just mechanical I mean it's like mechanical that's not exciting but no apparently if it was you like he's like me and a buddy come over have a few drinks but let's go he's like my buddy has 10 more points to me at the end of the game I don't care it's not my bag it's not my bag he doesn't he doesn't care I don't know so like you know it sounds like a carnival game just that you're trying to build no it seems like what he wants to genuinely organization he just wants to build licensed furniture just something that sits in a game room that looks pretty and as long as they can turn on you can plunge a ball and flip it around a little bit that's all he cares about then make a couple of cocktails and like with you know yeah yeah if you could use it as a foot rest one day and then uh play some pinball the other I don't know that is curious just because it's perfectly okay to not play for score sure the vast majority in the vast majority of people that play Pinball in arcade they're not playing for score they have no idea but they are playing for the atmosphere so you have to give them the atmosphere and they have to fill that as soon as they hit the start button before they even plunge a ball they have to feel like they're being pulled in so whatever world that that game is supposed to pull them in with and so if you're not filling that yeah then you're not going to fill it and I can tell you I played Thunderbirds enough for all four and a half balls to tell you I did not feel pulled in yeah he said um spinal tap uh there's a DMD which is for the actual modes and score and then there's an LCD to show clips of the movie but he did say he goes what I will tell you is we tried to line up the clips of the movie with what you're doing in the game as much as possible but he's like it's a very active game it's a really fast game I can't pause the game to get a clip to finish to then start the next clip for the mode like he's like that's not possible so we did our best so really what it sounds like is it's just playing clips of the movie as he wants but I'm thinking like every other one of these pins is trying to find a way to do that try to find a way to to choreograph the actual assets of the theme into what you're doing in the game and a lot of them do it rather successfully so I don't just go listen to the interview it's incredible but uh Different Strokes for a difference I just I just can't like it seems to me that home pin sure is it a pinball machine at the end of the day yes is it a pinball machine meant for anybody that's listening to this podcast no not at all I just don't it just doesn't seem like and he's basically clear that's not his it's not his bag it's not my bag if it's not in Tom's collection is it even a pinball machine it's true at this point which is going to be crazy when he sells Godfather or uh Godzilla it's gonna be I mean just right yeah so what's the what's the other rumor so nap is killing it what's he killing it with whatever we go there's rumors of Ghostbusters but that that all that brings up what is it what's the rumor for Ghostbusters let's just go find the rumors you have um Ghostbusters has been rumored for a long time um to do what to that they're gonna remake it in some capacity and like a vaults or well apparently the drama with that is what is it Trudeau is obviously he's imprisoned for some terrible things whether or not this the company would even want to associate anything that he's done again so then the rumor is well what if George Gomez took his game he took the game and tweaked the layout a little bit enough that now the the Creator Trudeau doesn't actually get is Trudeau the right word is that what John we'll we'll just call him as clown it's fine okay I just want to make sure I'm not actually seeing somebody else's name but that whatever the designer of that right that was the thing what if George Gomez took it tweaked it enough to then make it feel like it's his layout I mean why why not isn't that game well the game's nearly a decade old now right yeah did it come out in 2015 2016 so maybe not quite a decade but that being said I mean why not just don't don't redo the layout just come out with a new Ghostbusters oh which is a brand new one yeah they did the same thing with Avengers like why not just do that with Ghostbusters they've done that with several I mean there's already new movies out in the same time but it's really good that's the thing is the game is already really really good I I mean you say what you said though like to go from Dark Knight to Batman 66 started with it but then tweaked it I don't think I don't think they do that take Ghostbusters Just redo it just get the Ghostbusters license it's huge just do a whole new one what what are people gonna do say oh I don't I don't want to get this brand new Ghostbusters that's on the spike too that has all the movie clips and all that because this game came out several years ago it would it would sell like why not well there's licensing issues well yeah but but I'm saying like why not go ahead and just do that as opposed to tweaking so don't tweak just start over yeah yeah because if you just tweak and everybody that's bought a ghost investors up until this point what are they going to do like just go yeah yeah like they're not going to so why not just make a whole new game because then they will that's kind of crazy yeah I hadn't thought about that um there's so I get paid the big bucks right there Joel there's rumors flying around for uh Big Bang Bar and Twilight Zone um okay what's the rumor what's the rumors there somebody's making them debunk or confirm or I think there's uh people of of bought the license for both so somebody out there owns a license which means there's a good chance those are going to get made um in my opinion I I don't care about Big Bang Bar at all it's just it's a game and a theme that'll never end up my collection I don't care it just doesn't the only thing that would bother me if if Chicago gaming does it then that means they're tied up for another year plus making those yeah um make damn Pulp Fiction game do you have a blankie on there Tom it does I'm cold where's your comfy at that comfy my wife stole it yeah my wife wears it all the time it's cold cold in the basement um so Twilight Zone but Twilight Zone though my thought with Twilight Zone is if it's a if it's a big company if it's like a if it's a Chicago gaming making that then I care about it because I know it's going to be made I know it's going to be made well and I know they're not going to price it some crazy thing if it's some brand new company uh I have a little more speculation like What's it gonna be built off what's the build quality gonna be like like I don't wanna just throw my my my ring or my money into the so the hat I don't what am I saying whatever saying I'm saying I don't wanna if I just want to risk it for that but then you have people like um pedretti gaming overseas that they're now doing these remake kits well are they going to start actually doing full-fledge remakes I don't know so I don't know I just it seems like we like we said whatever 10 minutes ago there's a ton of really good games right now available for anybody to buy a new box but now there's rumors of just even more stuff or even more companies coming out making even more games or remaking old games it's just what there's just so much potentially coming down the pipeline that it's kind of I don't know it's kind of nuts I don't know I don't know how to feel about it it's a fun time for speculation oh oh okay very fun time yeah yeah that's my comments on it that okay well I know what else do we got besides just that there's Indiana Jones rumors there's Matrix rumors uh obviously Harry Potter with jjp and then one of the rumors I had mentioned it last time Travis has gone out this is the third time I was trying to be polite and ignore it but you know it's just so consistent um the last episode I had mentioned with Harry Potter and nobody talked about it nobody else said it except for Dennis with the collective Gamers podcast did he kind of took it even further but the question was with Harry Potter and jjp what if there's a chance that for them to what if Stern passed on license purposely because of of limitations that the Harry Potter license is expecting when we hinted at like well what if you made a straight up like home pin level game or a lack of a coin door something that couldn't be put on Route what if that was the limitation that's what a collected Gamers podcast took to a whole new level he's saying what if it's more like uh was it Zazzle or zizzle game like a like almost more of like a home pin a slightly smaller full-on cannot be like I hope it's not that extreme like that would really piss off a lot of people if it does if it's not even a full-fledged uh pinball game but that's that's Harry Potter rumor you got Elton John rumors coming up with uh Jersey Jack Indiana Jones was in there somewhere um I think that if somebody told me about doing Indiana Jones I think that would be a horrible theme to do right now like the new one that just came out oh yeah well well the Williams version of it's great and everything but I mean this new Indiana Jones that's coming out it's very lukewarm response and there's a ton of people that are just huge Indiana Jones [Music] the fourth and fifth movie no I don't know I so I don't know if that would be good well maybe this I see we're we're coming up on time um maybe this is the question for each of us but what what is currently what are you currently excited about in pinball so what is currently grabbing your interest or what are you looking forward to in the near future I might have to say haggis's new oh yeah thing that they did they had a little trailer that dropped so I don't know 10 minutes before we recorded yeah I I have not understood it's there's nothing visual it's just the Haggis logo but the audio let's play it you can see if you can hear it I'm gonna play it let me let me it's like a minute if that the minute well even that it's really 20 seconds listen can you hear it I can as long as you're quiet is listening I don't want that I don't want the audience to just sit in silence guys oh that's easy that's yeah that's eight ball Deluxe yeah so that's what that is if you listen to it though there are it says coming soon and it's it's clearly pool balls clinging together like billiard balls but there's also the sound of a revving motorcycle Eight Ball deluxe does Eight Ball deluxe have a motorcycle I don't know but it has pole balls pool balls for sure but Centaur is clearly some sort of me I hear a motorcycle and pool balls so that's the question though Eight Ball deluxe clearly pool balls bang bang so what was it they haggis is uh fathom was the first of five games from the class of 80. was that it it's and I think the games I mean there's only so many in that in that Realm but people had said like Centaur is one of them eightball Deluxe is one of them fathom's one of them yeah I'm sorry with the other two so but the question is because you hear a motorcycle revving and you hear pool balls are they about to announce two why not manufacturing I don't know it's taken us a long time to make fathom I don't know if I don't know I mean you can announce all the games you want well I mean who knows maybe they have to due to a deal or something like that where they don't lose the license they gotta get it out a certain time like I don't know that's pure speculation on my part but either way it's yeah these are two games that people expected to come at some point and I think the general idea that I get from talking to different people at Centaur that gets people's attention the most that you're excited about so uh since there's a game that I I would never own it doesn't it doesn't like why not that art I don't like how much would somebody have a motorcycle how much would somebody pay for new and Bucks Eight Ball Deluxe eight think that much well that's it brings a an interestingly if it's like an Ellie Eight Ball deluxe like the new Ellie not that yeah with new rules yeah maybe eight but I think a centaur would go for 10. the rules are solid they're sound where they're at but are if you add the LCD into the apron like they didn't fathom what are I don't know like that I feel like that's a rule set that would be really hard to make a more in-depth like I mean it was all right I just don't get excited about it for a remake like I did with fathom in Centaur I get excited about Frontier I'd be very excited about sure wish somebody do a frontier then you could yeah you could do the HD soundtrack like really bring out the Crickets yeah parody I don't have a frontier though I know you have everything Tom I know do you have an eight ball no I'm just gonna go to sleep he's all bundled up good night everybody yeah uh okay so then there there's that so that's what I'm excited about I mean you're excited about haggis well I'm excited that there's a trailer out for it okay and we don't know what it is like this is the one rumor out of everything that I'm like I'm pretty sure I have no idea what's going on okay everything else I feel very confident about that I have a general idea with where it's going or what's happening this I don't know so I'm excited by the unknown okay all right but I think it's able Deluxe um Tom what are you excited about what are you excited about what are you currently excited about in pinball or what's keep what's holding your excitement are you excited or is there something in the near future you're looking forward to uh Super Series sponsored by the pinball company oh we're plugging that's exciting that's coming soon that's not a plug that's serious excitement there you go yeah oh speaking of plugs here's something to get excited about UK open is coming up so I don't know it's the 29th of June this might come out after tickets have already gone on sale in that case I'm sorry they're sold out most likely but they're supposed to go and sell this Saturday July 1st it's the 30th of June right now right I really wish I could go to that one yeah that that'll be a fun one cool so that that would be something to sign up for if you're thinking about it so I'm looking forward to that so Travis is excited about a a trailer that he doesn't know about Tom is excited about more tournament pinball seems fair yeah I mean it's tournament pinball hey what are you excited about Joel yeah I mean I am pitched to your golf cart or something like tired up I had a flat tire on the golf cart the other day yeah I accidentally did a flat tire on Michael okay you tangent real quick just humor me here this is an argument my wife and I had Monica and I had here well she was right whatever it is well let me tell you the parameters you could decide that real quick and I'd like the audience can we get Monica in the room for this yeah I think let's hear the truth let me ask you this tell me a bedtime story if you hit okay if you hit a curb yeah with your with your tire okay Car golf cart in a car okay is is that a crash is that a wreck if you get a curb you hit a curb to stop you from driving it's an accident no no no the person driving got to keep going forward a little bit your movement well it my movement did not stop the rim got all effed up the tire got a puncture in it so yeah I mean where are you going okay okay five miles an hour I just got a little excited were you able to drive away from the situation or did you have to place the tire or did you get a tow truck so I was able to drive away uh-huh but we then realized wait there seems to be a hole in the tire we may not want to drive this on the highway so we did take it to somebody to get a new tire and we have to get a new rim and Monica won't let me live it down but you know what I did not wreck you didn't record the record I did not well so the question is we should post this on our Facebook did traffic wreck the car is that an accurate question or is is it did Travis get into a wreck I would say I would say Travis did not get into a wreck did I damage the car did Travis wreck the car borderline or am am I playing 4D chess and now I don't have to drive anymore wow well is Monica a better driver than Travis no way you were playing Russian roulette anytime you get in the same vehicle with that woman when she has control over the pedals no uh hopefully she has control of the pedals and the steering wheel hopefully you don't tag team you haven't seen your drive there's a reason why I left that part out yeah all right all right well write Us in at uh triple drainage gmail.com did you run into something oh I think you have a flat tire you hit a curb too no no I think it was actually just I think it was just low on air and what we did is we backed out of the garage we kind of turned it quickly to then go down the driveway and in the process of turning it quickly all of a sudden like the left back tire was completely down like so I I think it kind of popped off the rim and literally was like went from having some air To None immediately because I took it off and I found no puncture hole anywhere but it was off the rim so speaking of uh driving things I got to go on the Autobahn and uh in Germany oh no speed limit yeah I heard about that and then Ben Moser was driving Colin MacAlpine in the uh passenger seat Neil and I in the back how was that 220 kilometers per hour you know what that relates it's like 135 140 miles per hour I was [ __ ] a brick in the back I was just like Ben's like just just scream if I'm going too fast I was like holy like like seriously like if somebody gets over you're dead that's it yeah wow and Neil's like Dad calm down yeah pretty much he's like it was pretty fast so what so what it sounds like is we need to get Monica on the Autobahn that's what I'm oh God no you have no idea there's been times I've woke up after falling asleep and it feels like we just teleported across the country oh you here here's the deal here's how my wife operates and I'd like to know if anybody else's wife does this I'm sorry this is no longer an involved podcast here we go to wrap it up therapy session right now when you go to sleep right yeah and you barely open up your eyes you're expecting to still be going I don't know what around 10 miles an hour the speed limit sure it's acceptable to do 80 85 right and the 75 not in a school zone no right exactly exactly there's levels to this yeah but when you wake up and you see your wife eating a sandwich with her knee on the will and you look over and it's 95. you're questioning life a little bit Christian down the highway 95 eating a sandwich if my wife oh my God no way there's Monica's awesome no tip Monica's awesome and you got your four kids in the back she barely speeds if the kids are in the vehicle that's considerate if they're in the vehicle it's fine if if I'm in the vehicle Travis she wants to get freaking Mario Andretti she wants to get out of the vehicle as quick as possible if you're in the vehicle I want that trip to be as short as possible that's what I'm hearing that could be it I just keep telling her I'm like my life insurance is Dick I'm sorry you're not gonna kill me that easily I mean it's I just I don't know why I don't know what it is that's incredible like do you do your guys wives not drive like lunatics whenever you're like asleep I'm not are you wake up I'm trying to come off as misogynistic but if we're all in the car I drive and it's not because I just she typically that's perfectly fine she wants to sleep a lot more and if we're on a car trip and I don't sleep she is a more aggressive vehicle she is a more aggressive driver than I am and so okay what about in your situation I've driven with you Tom you are a very calm cool collected driver that's out of character for time Tom obeys the law yeah he looks over his shoulder and he pushed that pedal down a little further sometimes I go off-roading that's all right yeah but not you don't wreck your car into a curve that's for sure yeah now I've done that I did not wreck we decided we voted we're sticking to it and when Monica listens to us it's not a wreck or a two hours and if I look back on what we've talked about today I don't know it's been an episode it had been five weeks I knew we had to catch up but it's been a weird five weeks it's been a weird five weeks um no crazy news to really report just a lot of we're basically talking we're basically tucking Tom in putting them to bed which is pretty cool but um well let's plug it up here let's go ahead and plug away we'll start with Travis yeah you guys can find me on the triple drain pinball podcast but I will say the next tournament I'm going to be at is the route 66 tilt and ball Championship which is in Tulsa Oklahoma it's by hanger pinball and I believe this year try to tilt pinball on Twitch is going to be showing it or streaming it so yeah that's July 9th through the 11th I believe so a Thursday through a Sunday nice and that's sometime around there maybe that's the seventh through the 11th I don't know it's it's sometime after Fourth of July this upcoming week so wait of course my plug thank you Travis uh Tom Joel plug away man I stream uh pinball on Twitch yep on foxwoody's pinball maybe I should do a 24-hour stream you can watch me sleep um just have Carlos playing in the background it's fine that has been talked about before uh but uh no uh actually uh the next tournament I'm gonna be streaming I believe is going to be at interium in Chicago my friend Andy Bagwell and also Travis will be there it sounds like nice I will be I'm actually a tournament director now yes yes and I was like you couldn't pay me to do that nice he asked me and I said oh three why not free free oh Joel that the uh dates July 6th through the 9th yeah so sixth to the ninth is coming up I think uh interim's at the end of July so we'll probably stream before that anyways but nice and um yeah and I obviously do this podcast and then every Wednesday night on The Flipping Out YouTube stream or YouTube channel uh from 10 to midnight eastern Daylight Time EDT whatever Eastern whatever it is um my brother and I will either stream pinball or we do a chatting stream so check all those out all those vods are on YouTube um the chatting streams are fun to watch afterwards we had a really fun game last uh two weeks ago where we actually took pretty much every modern game and we're ranking their difficulty and uh we had a lot of fun with that that was a really fun conversation and then we streamed Foo Fighters last week next week we're streaming uh Godfather and I think um I've been in talks with jjp and I think we have some jjp giveaways that are going to go on during that stream so that should be a good time so next Wednesday um come check that out but otherwise yeah thank you to all the patreon supporters all of anybody that chats us on Facebook anybody that said Hey to Travis or Tom during the European uh their European tour um I don't know we love the sport it's awesome we enjoy doing this uh sorry if we're not doing it enough hopefully we can do it more but um I don't know this is a good time we enjoyed doing you know recording these episodes and um thank you for everybody that enjoys it and supports it but um yeah I think that's all I have so like always um Tom you got the last words uh good night Joel and Travis foreign _(Acquisition: youtube_auto_sub, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: d9547031-9e9d-4761-a48f-25dcae211647*