# Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Ep 38: Entering The Bone Zone

**Source:** Triple Drain Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2023-06-10  
**Duration:** 103m 31s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://zencastr.com/z/whns1enE

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## Analysis

Triple Drain Podcast episode featuring Greg Bone (from Straight Down the Middle / Flipping Out Pinball) discussing new game releases, manufacturing challenges across the pinball industry, and the Godzilla topper reveal. Hosts debate how new manufacturers compete with established players, analyze what makes games sell (theme, layout, artwork), and react to Stern's accessory marketing strategy.

### Key Claims

- [MEDIUM] Hexa Pinball Space Hunt is a French-based company with limited North American distribution plans; Flipping Out may not carry it — _Greg mentions the company said 'we're going to stay within the country' regarding distribution; notes distribution discussions haven't been finalized_
- [MEDIUM] James Bond is not selling as well as anticipated; Stern is pulling older games (Godzilla, Iron Maiden, Jurassic Park) back into production — _Greg notes Bond premiums are hard to move; infers Stern's ability to redirect manufacturing is evidence of Bond underperformance_
- [MEDIUM] Bond's poor initial reception was driven by theme (older IP), artwork criticism, and weak early code; code updates are helping it gain traction as a sleeper — _Hosts discuss Bond's three-variable problem (theme, layout, artwork); Greg predicts it will become a 'sleeper' hit with future code updates_
- [HIGH] Godzilla machine dramatically exceeded Stern's manufacturing capacity expectations; multiple production runs still cannot meet backlog demand — _Greg notes people still waiting on Godzilla premiums ordered long ago; Stern had to add multiple runs and reschedule production_
- [HIGH] Godzilla succeeded despite weak initial theme interest; the game's excellent code and layout converted skeptics into fans — _Hosts agree Godzilla had no initial hype but became universally praised due to gameplay; Greg notes he became a legitimate Godzilla fan through the game_
- [MEDIUM] Manufacturing is harder than design for established manufacturers at scale; new small producers may find manufacturing easier with low volumes — _Greg references comment from Pinball Adventures owner that 'manufacturing is the easiest part'; Travis counters that scale makes manufacturing difficult_
- [HIGH] Stern's Godzilla topper marketing was poorly presented—heavily underexposed in official video with more footage of hands than the actual topper — _Hosts timed the official Stern video; noted confusion about topper functionality; praised Zach's (Flipping Out) remedial promo video for clarification_
- [HIGH] CGC's Cactus Canyon reissue announced October 2022; as of podcast date, nearly two years later, day-one customers still awaiting delivery — _Greg states 'approaching two years' from announcement; people ordered day one and still don't have units_

### Notable Quotes

> "Well, believe it or not, manufacturing the games is the easiest part."
> — **Pinball Adventures owner (via Don's Pinball Podcast)**, ~mid-episode
> _Contradicts industry consensus that manufacturing at scale is the primary bottleneck; suggests design/concept may be harder than assumed_

> "I would assume that James Bond is not as selling as well as they assumed."
> — **Greg Bone**, ~mid-episode
> _Direct statement that Bond underperformed; explains Stern's pivot to resurrecting older titles in production_

> "Theme sells like it is the big thing because you can have a game that's good. Just good. Doesn't have to be extraordinary, but it's got a theme that resonates with people and it elevates that game."
> — **Travis**, ~late-episode
> _Core industry principle: theme can overcome mediocre gameplay; contrasts with Godzilla proving excellent gameplay can overcome weak theme_

> "If they did the current Godzilla. It's serious. Yeah. Yeah. It wouldn't be near as well received as it is now."
> — **Greg Bone**, ~late-episode
> _Credits Stern's decision to lean into 1960s camp aesthetic as critical to Godzilla's universal praise_

> "I audibly said, oh, no."
> — **Greg Bone (reacting to topper reveal)**, ~topper discussion
> _Immediate negative reaction to Stern's official topper video; reflects broader frustration with poor marketing presentation_

> "There was nearly double the footage of hands on the topper."
> — **Hosts (timing official Stern video)**, ~topper discussion
> _Quantifies absurdity of Stern's topper marketing—more product obscured than shown_

> "It's not a turnoff but like I can't I can't justify like that's a theme I can't have in my house."
> — **Greg (comparing Elvira and Walking Dead themes)**, ~theme discussion
> _Illustrates how adult themes, despite quality gameplay, can exclude family-oriented collectors_

> "My son, a three-year-old, requests it. He thinks it's a funny song."
> — **Greg (Blue Öyster Cult Godzilla theme)**, ~Godzilla discussion
> _Personal anecdote showing Godzilla's appeal extends to unlikely demographics due to campy aesthetic_

> "It's hilarious that a thousand dollars is something to be excited about, right?"
> — **Travis**, ~topper discussion
> _Acknowledges accessory price escalation in pinball; topper at ~$1k is considered 'cheaper' than Mandalorian comparably_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Greg Bone | person | Co-host of Straight Down the Middle podcast; tech support at Flipping Out Pinball (owned by Zach Minney); primary guest on this episode; discusses manufacturing, distribution, and market dynamics |
| Travis | person | Co-host of Triple Drain; IFPA World Championship competitor (currently in Europe); provides production graphics for pinball releases; discusses theme-driven sales and design philosophy |
| Joel | person | Co-host of Triple Drain; tournament player (took 89th at Cleveland with .85 Whoppers); age ~35; discusses manufacturing bottlenecks and market dynamics |
| Tom | person | Third co-host of Triple Drain; absent this episode due to competing in IFPA World Championship in Germany and subsequent European vacation with family |
| Zach Minney | person | Owner of Flipping Out Pinball; known for high-quality promotional videos; created remedial Godzilla topper video to clarify poor Stern marketing; family currently out of town |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer; released Godzilla (massive hit, production backlog), Foo Fighters, James Bond, Iron Maiden, Jurassic Park; changed production schedule to accommodate demand; criticized for poor topper marketing |
| Flipping Out Pinball | company | Pinball distributor/retailer run by Zach Minney and Nicole; considering Hexa Pinball Space Hunt distribution (uncertain); known for quality promotional content and competitive pricing |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Established manufacturer noted for consistent game quality; competes with Stern and Spooky; mentioned as reliable option for buyers hesitant about new manufacturers |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Established manufacturer known for vibrant design aesthetic and good games; competitor to Stern/JJP; referenced in comparison to new manufacturers' viability |
| Chicago Gaming Company | company | Manufacturer of Cactus Canyon reissue; announced October 2022; experiencing severe production delays (~2 years to fulfill day-one pre-orders) |
| Hexa Pinball Space Hunt | game | French-based new manufacturer's game; unlicensed original theme; bright pink/purple/green color palette; competing with Space Tanks; distribution to North America uncertain |
| Godzilla (Stern) | game | Massive commercial success exceeding manufacturing expectations; production still backlogged; praised for excellent code and 1960s campy aesthetic; universal praise despite weak initial theme interest |
| Foo Fighters (Stern) | game | Hit release that outperformed expectations; requires multiple production runs; still 1.0 code but considered complete game; manufacturing shifted to accommodate demand |
| James Bond (Stern) | game | Underperforming title; weak initial theme reception, artwork criticism, early code issues; hosts predict code updates will make it a 'sleeper' hit; premiums difficult to sell |
| Iron Maiden (Stern) | game | Successfully converted non-fans through gameplay excellence; demonstrates how superior code/layout can overcome weak theme interest; currently in Stern's active production lineup |
| Jurassic Park (Stern) | game | Premium editions available for production restart; mentioned as part of Stern's flexible manufacturing strategy to reallocate to hit games |
| Total Nuclear Annihilation | game | Homebrew with vibrant pink/purple/green color palette; has cult following; cited as example of unlicensed game that succeeded through accumulated hype and community engagement |
| Dialed In (Stern) | game | Cited as excellent game that moves slowly due to original/weak theme; demonstrates theme's critical role in sales velocity |
| Pinball Adventures | company | New startup manufacturer; owner made comment that 'manufacturing is the easiest part'; operates at small scale (possibly <20 units) |
| Haggis Pinball | company | Small manufacturer struggling with production; Fathoms game in development for years; experiencing manufacturing bottleneck cited as industry-wide challenge |
| Straight Down the Middle podcast | media | Podcast co-hosted by Greg Bone; referenced as trending upward; serves as platform for discussing pinball industry dynamics and collector perspectives |
| Don's Pinball Podcast | media | Separate podcast; featured interview with Pinball Adventures owner discussing manufacturing challenges; cited as reliable industry news source |
| Godzilla topper | product | Stern accessory; ~$1,000 price point; initially poorly marketed in Stern's official video (more hand footage than topper footage); remedial Zach promo video crucial to consumer understanding; praised as good value |
| Mandalorian topper | product | Stern accessory; more expensive than Godzilla topper; referenced as previous expensive accessory benchmark |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Manufacturing bottlenecks and production scaling, Theme-driven sales dynamics vs. gameplay quality, Godzilla machine success and cultural impact, James Bond underperformance and code-update recovery strategy
- **Secondary:** New manufacturer viability in competitive market, Stern's poor marketing execution on Godzilla topper, Accessory pricing and production costs
- **Mentioned:** Competitive tournament activity (IFPA World Championship)

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.55) — Hosts are positive about game quality (Godzilla, Iron Maiden) and appreciate Stern's manufacturing flexibility, but frustrated with poor marketing decisions (topper reveal) and sympathy for struggling manufacturers. Concern about industry consolidation disadvantaging new entrants tempered by respect for those attempting to compete.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Manufacturers struggle to forecast demand; either massive backlogs (Godzilla, Foo Fighters) or excess inventory (Bond); no middle ground (confidence: high) — 'It's either a huge hit or manufacturers can't sell them...or distributors have a bunch and they're on the shelf and they're just sitting. It's one or the other.'
- **[competitive_signal]** Three-manufacturer establishment (Stern, JJP, Spooky) locked competitive advantage through IP licensing access; new entrants lack theme licensing capability (confidence: high) — 'All three of them, what they're very good at at this current time is getting themes. And more than anything, if you're a brand new business...it's awfully hard to get footing in this industry if you're not bringing that to the table.'
- **[product_concern]** New manufacturers struggle with unlicensed themes + overseas production + unknown QA/support = high barrier to entry vs. Stern/JJP/Spooky's theme licensing advantage (confidence: high) — 'If you're approaching this with the unlicensed theme and you understand what that variable is, I mean, that's more than often it's a strike against you, especially if it's overseas.'
- **[leak_detection]** Hexa Pinball Space Hunt exists; French-based; competes with Space Tanks; distribution status uncertain for North America (confidence: medium) — Greg mentions recent awareness; Flipping Out considering distribution but company stated 'we're going to stay within the country'
- **[market_signal]** James Bond premium tier struggling to sell; indicates potential mid-tier demand weakness or theme/art reception issues (confidence: high) — 'It's awfully hard to get games moving. That's kind of set up like Bond is currently...I would assume that James Bond is not as selling as well as they assumed.'
- **[market_signal]** Stern's official Godzilla topper video severely underexposed the product; more footage of hands than actual topper; required third-party (Zach/Flipping Out) promo to clarify functionality (confidence: high) — 'There was nearly double the footage of hands on the topper...I was very confused. I was like, what does this topper do?'
- **[market_signal]** Accessory pricing escalation: Godzilla topper ~$1,000 considered 'cheaper' than Mandalorian; hosts acknowledge thousand-dollar accessories as industry norm (confidence: medium) — 'It's funny that a thousand dollars is something to be excited about, right?'
- **[product_strategy]** CGC Cactus Canyon reissue announced October 2022; as of podcast (late 2024), still ~2 years from announcement with day-one customers unfulfilled (confidence: high) — 'Like we're approaching two years, and there are people that ordered them day one and still don't have them.'
- **[product_concern]** James Bond suffered from multiple simultaneous quality/perception issues: older theme, artwork criticism (using unvetted assets), and weak early code requiring updates (confidence: high) — 'The artwork, there was a lot of people that weren't pleased with the artwork...if you're not into the theme, you're probably not going to be into the artwork either.'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Godzilla converted skeptics into genuine fans; weak initial theme interest reversed by gameplay excellence and campy 1960s aesthetic leaning (confidence: high) — 'I never I did not care about godzilla in any way before...but I've become an actual legitimate Godzilla fan...my son, a three-year-old requests it.'
- **[technology_signal]** Stern's manufacturing flexibility allows rapid pivots between new releases and back-catalog rereleases; enables response to demand forecasting errors (confidence: high) — 'Stern has things figured out there where they can pull from the back catalog at any moment. And their line has been packed for years now.'

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## Transcript

 the pinball network is online launching triple drain pinball podcast all right tom oh oh no oh no tom's not here tom's not here um tom is not here but it's okay we're gonna we're gonna work through this we're gonna be strong um so i'll go to the next best person greg greg greg are you ready for this are you ready i'm ready man good i don't want to come on the show for a long time well here you go here's the day um and i'll ask the guy i think resents being on this show every episode uh travis are you are you ready for this i'm very happy to be here now it feels like i'm part of straight down the middle so uh yeah we're we're like trending way up. I'm very happy about this. That's why I had to wear... I was going to fix my hair, but I was like, no, I got to wear a hat today. I got to channel my inner Travis. I appreciate it. I mean, if you really wanted to, you got to shave the beard, though. I can't grow a beard. I'm horrible without a beard. You look beautiful, though. Thank you. Gorgeous. Joel, just roll it. Here's that intro song. We We're three guys who like to talk and ball. So we came up with the cloud for our name. We're Joe and Travis Downer Talk and Ball. And we call ourselves Triple Train. Triple Train. Triple Train. We're Triple. Triple Train. I mean, Greg, does that just get you pumped up? I mean. I was hyped the whole time. It's perfect. Well, Travis, I feel like you're just going to make bone jokes the whole time. You know, we're entering the bone zone. What else you got? You're ready to. I said that in pre-production. Yeah. That's all you. You got the first bone joke. You said that in the Facebook message group, too. I think it was the first chat. Yep. I woke up to a message this morning. It was like, yeah, I was wondering what time we were starting the bone zone. You've heard that your whole life, haven't you, Greg? Yes. What a great last name. What a great last name. Through some of my life, like, you know, obviously in school, you know, there's the boner jokes. and you get all the bone stuff. And then there was just like a hiatus in my 20s where I didn't get any of that. And now in my late 30s, 40, friends and people have brought it back for some reason. Well, at least there's no friends, right? That's what happens, though. You get to your late 30s, early 40s, it's almost like you devolve to your 20s, but yet you actually are financially secure. You've got a little bit more knowledge. And, Joel, you're young, right? I'm still in my 30s, yep. You're like 36, 35. How old are you, Joel? I'm 35. Oh, man. You got some time before you hit this. Yeah. You're getting closer. You're getting closer. I'm getting there. Yeah. I'm looking at Travis's background. I feel like every week he adds something new. You got the Iron Man. Anything changed? Oh, yeah. My son put that up. Oh, okay. Nothing else changed. We're still trying to move. So I'm not trying to do all this. I know I need a pinball machine behind me. You bought a house and you didn't use Greg as your realtor is what I'm hearing. Well, he went to, you were. You need to come to St. Louis, Greg. Yep. That's the only way to do it. Yeah. I'm just getting licensed in St. Louis just so I can help you out. Just for that one house, yeah. Totally worth it, yeah. What else we got in the background? We got the, what are the bonehead lights? I see that in Greg's background. Oh, yes. Greg, I feel like you've patented that. Shout out to Comet Pinball, right? Comet Pinball. Oh, amazing. With their little light. And I feel like you put that all together and then they call it the bonehead. You got a little shot. They were just like, you know what? We're going to use this cause we like the photos and we like what it does. And it's super like, to me it's like the cheapest, best mod that you can do. And I like it a little bit in the under cab. Like, I don't know who, like why you want to light up your floor, light up your wall where everybody's looking. It's no brainer. That's bloody brilliant right there. I feel like that's a great transition to show off that in my background. Boom. The Godzilla topper. It is here. It is present. Um, I know, well, we'll, we'll get, Wow, we can just dive right in. We just need to go straight into it, Joel. Stop teasing the audience. Let's just go. So here's the deal. With Tom not here, the reason Tom's not here is he's still in Europe. So Travis and Tom both competed in the IFPA World Championship for last year over in Europe. So that was in Germany. And that's how we're going to talk about it because we're going to save that for Tom. There was a lot of competitive pinball. There was also some European something. There was the, what is it, Epstein Cup, which is like U.S. versus Europe or North America versus Europe. I don't know exactly how they do it, but there's a lot. There's a whole lot of tournament pinball played over there. And then Tom is still there with his family. They're on like a European vacation. So I'm assuming he is probably on the beach in a Speedo as we speak. That would be a little late. It's pretty close, actually. Yeah, that would be Tom. So Tom will be back, and we will make sure we'll dive all into that goodness when he gets back. So we were thinking we still want to do an episode. It's been a little while. We can't talk tournaments. So we start going through the list of all the people we've had on. And we're like, who do we know that doesn't like tournaments? And to be honest, the first person I thought of was Zach Minney. So I thought of Zach Minney, and I was like, people are sick of Zach. You know what people love? They love Greg. So let's get Greg Bone on here. The better half is straight down the middle. It's an unfair statement to say that I don't like tournaments. I actually love tournaments. I'm not Zach. I love tournaments. I just don't know enough about them, nor do I take the time to go out and play in them. But I love them. That's fair. I used to play a little bit. I got to apologize for Joel. He's like a tournament snob now. He took 89 at Cleveland. He has like .85 Whoppers. So, I mean, I'm sorry. I'm just going to let you know ahead of time. The rest of us tournament players, we do not look down on the people that don't play tournaments. I know. Joel is just like automatically like, oh, Greg don't play tournaments, so Greg must hate tournaments. Greg's an outsider. Well, I just didn't want people to like try to slip in some tournament talk here. This Joel guy. My God. You're like, oh, because we know tournament talk. Tom's not here. We're not going to, you know, so we wanted to we wanted to go with, you know, somebody we knew wasn't going to slip into that. And you fit the bill. So thank you. No worries there. No worries there. So, yeah. So the goal here, you know, there hasn't been any crazy game released. Well, there is one. What is the Hexa pinball? The space is a space hunt or space space hunt. Space hunt. They're competing against space tanks. you know i don't know if any if you guys have any initial impressions i heard i mean so greg does work for flipping out obviously zach and nicole run that company and greg you do uh what i don't know what your title is tech support or just yeah more tech yeah okay so i think zach has reached out to that company it's a french-based company to to probably talk distributorship um but i i I don't think that's happening. I think they said something along the lines of like, we're going to stay within the country. I don't know. So I I'm guessing you're not going to be involved in Hexa pinball space hunt. I don't know yet. Like we, so we, we hadn't really discussed it. Like I was actually over there yesterday. I drove down to his house. Um, family's all out of town. So I usually try to make it all about pinball and just a good time, take advantage of it. So I drove down there and he briefly brought it up, but we didn't really go into kind of any details about what their discussions were or whether we were going to or not be carrying those. Okay. Got it. Well, hopefully you like bright pink because that game, I mean, to be honest, I love a TNA. I love a total nuclear annihilation and the color palette of that pinks, purples, bright green. So to be honest, the color palette, like I'm okay with, I, my daughter would freaking love it. Bright pink. I think it's a, I think it's cool looking or beautiful looking game, But I don't know my view at least on, on brand new manufacturers are, it's just the bar is put so high by these other companies that if I, if I only have X amount of money, it is, you've got to do something ungodly to justify, you know. Well, cause you don't want to take the risk. Like you said, you've only got so much money. So why, like you want to, you, you kind of want to save for bet. You don't want that long shot, you know, to waste your money on. And you're like, oh, okay. I was going to get one new pin this year, and now I've got a turd sitting here that doesn't work or that plays like crap. And it's tough with these other manufacturers. I mean, Stern is consistently good. JJP makes consistently good games. And then Spooky makes their games can be good. I mean, it's like even just those three alone. You've got so many great options here in North America, and I understand we have global listeners. So maybe there are people over in Europe that want to support somebody local. I mean, so I don't know. I'm just in a wait and see situation. There's a lot of question marks. It's unlicensed theme, like always. The song is interesting, to say the least. But I don't know. Maybe it's incredible. Maybe it's incredible. But we'll yeah, maybe they'll ship you one, have you and Zach make a beautiful featurette for them. And it's ends up being a lovely, lovely game. I don't know. Travis, the pinball company is not buying any that you know of? I mean, well, here's the thing. The three manufacturers that you listed off, right? Yeah. Stern, Jersey Jack, Spooky, all three of them, what they're very good at at this current time is getting themes. And more than anything, if you're a brand new business or you're a brand new startup, it's awfully hard to get footing in this industry if you're not bringing that to the table. Correct. Because you're already bringing on a bunch of unknown variables, like how fast are you going to get games manufactured? How fast are you going to ship out? What's the customer support afterwards? Who's designing? Who's doing software? What's going to be the updates? There's all these other things that are involved in it. And so for a casual player or for somebody that's just involved in pinball to the extent that they are, one of the first things they're going to look at is the theme. So if you're approaching this with the unlicensed theme and you understand what that variable is, I mean, that's more than often it's a strike against you, especially if it's overseas. I mean, it's got to be an extraordinary type of game like TNA, for instance, that people have. It's accessible to people to where they can readily play and they can see what it is. They can hear it. They can feel it. And it's just it's awfully hard if you're overseas for at least the American buyer to sense that unless there's just like a kick ass promo video that puts it out there. That's why that is so damn important, because, I mean, just like the Godzilla topper, I'm example right there. There's a lot of people that were like on the fence until Zach put out his promo. And then everybody's like, oh, OK, this looks legit. This looks cool. So, I mean, yeah, that's that's just the variable with it's not to say it's going to be a bad game or great game. Just simply don't know just because those variables alone. Yeah. Theme sells. I'm always a huge proponent. Theme sells like it is the big thing because you can you can have a game that's good. Just good. Doesn't have to be extraordinary, but it's got a theme that resonates with people and it elevates that game. Whereas you take it and you give an original theme to that good game, people are still not going to hardly buy it. You know, and I always just go back to dialed in. How many dialed in is a fantastic game, but you still just, you know, it moves along. You know, you played it, it moves along, or nobody wants to own it, and it comes down to the theme. And, you know, the thing that you had with TNA was Scott Danesi had such a cult following that took years to evolve as he was building that game and took it around the shows and everything. You know, there was it sort of became a popular theme within the pinball community, even though it was an original theme. Yeah, it became its own theme that you resonated with and that you sort of knew because he had brought it around so much and there was so much hype around it. And it's hard to get that, especially like overseas. You're not going to get that. Yeah. And with some of these brand new companies, too, even if you do have a killer theme like Queen, for example, that's a killer theme. but there's still so many question marks of like, how are they going to build? What's the build quality? How's the software support? Is this going to do this and this and this? So it's, I don't know. I respect all these companies that are trying to get into the industry, trying to start something new, but man, has that, that has to be just some ridiculous uphill battle that I don't envy. So stressful, stressful running a business. I mean, especially if you're trying to break into a market that is very stressful to do. So, I mean, props to people trying and hopefully it works out. I will say maybe maybe this is unfair, but I was listening. Don's pinball podcast. It's a it's another podcast. And that guy, I haven't heard a ton of his stuff, but I was recommended. I was told that on his latest episode, he has the the owner of Puny Factory or the owner of I don't know, the pinball adventures, I think is the company. He had him on the episode and I'm only gotten a little bit in. I haven't heard the whole thing, but that guy, the owner of Pinball Adventures, he made the comment. He said, because the question was something along the lines of like, congrats to you for finally actually like you have an idea and you're actually making games for customers. You're actually manufacturing games. And the guy said, well, believe it or not, manufacturing the games is the easiest part. And that's all I heard. I was like, what are you talking about? Like, that's what I thought. Everything else that I've heard, it's the exact opposite. But thinking of a concept, designing a game, making one, I don't know. I just heard him say, well, manufacturing the game is the easiest part. It's like, what? Like, that's where every other company is stuck, right? I mean, you look at Haggis. Like, Haggis has a beautiful game, these Fathoms, and they are taking years to make them. Like, it's not the design that's hard. It's the manufacturing that's the hard part, right? That goes into the variable part again, though. I mean, if you're manufacturing at scale, then it's highly difficult because you've got to get some of your products out. If you're not manufacturing to scale, you only have to make a few every now and again. Yeah, I mean. Maybe that's it. Pinball Adventures, maybe they're making 20 or less. It's hard to tell. I don't know. Let's just put it this way. If whatever you come out with outpaces, right, like the demand totally outpaces what you're able to put out, guess what? That manufacturing is going to feel very difficult because you're leaving a lot of money on the table. You got pissed off customers. I mean, but if you can manufacture and outpace the demand, well, yeah, it's not going to seem near as hard because your back's not up against the wall to produce X number of games through a certain amount of time. You're just meeting an allocation point at that point. Yeah. And maybe that's a great transition because these two games cause that problem. So behind me, I have Godzilla and Foo Fighters, both of which I would assume way outperformed what Stern was expecting them to do. And here we are. I mean, Stern has changed their, you know, shout out. Travis, you made this beautiful graphic for the pinball company the other day that shows the timeline, the manufacturing timeline or the schedule for this year. I saw that. I was impressed. You actually do like quality work. I do some work, you know, I mean, like 18 minutes a day I clock in. So right now I've gotten seven done so far. So I had to clock out for this. But yeah, I think Greg puts in at least an hour for the effort flipping. I mean, modeling takes like eight hours a day. That's tough. It's hard. What I will say is these two games, I mean, clearly outperformed what they were expecting. And so here's Stern kind of scrambling to like, how do we do it? How do we fit all these in? And, you know, we're still doing like there are people that still don't have their Godzilla premiums and they ordered them a long time ago. Foo Fighters, it's like having to add more and more runs and shift things around. If we want to go to another manufacturer, I know CGC, obviously manufacturing all the cactus canyons. It's taking forever. That was announced in October, not last year, but the year prior. Like we're approaching two years, and there are people that ordered them day one and still don't have them. So I just, I mean, it's a good problem. It's a good problem to have, right? It's a good problem when you way outsell what you're expecting to do. It's a good problem to have. But, yeah, we're seeing a lot of that. We're seeing a lot of that in this industry and a lot of people waiting on games. And then you have other people that have games that they're trying to sell that just – I just feel like it's either one or the other, right? It's either a huge hit or manufacturers can't sell them or distributors have a bunch and they're on the shelf and they're just sitting. It's one or the other. Well, I think sometimes with some of these companies, you take some – you come off of a really big hit. Like, you know, I can't imagine creating a really big game, something that just sells the hell out of games. And then how do you gauge that your next pin, you know, like, do you scale down? Are you are you literally reflecting and thinking, OK, like, wow, man, we killed it last time. We're going to kill it again. And you ramp up manufacturing. Like, how do you even gauge that? You know, when you're somebody like Puny Factory or you're a smaller company starting off, I feel like, you know, you're just kind of building to demand. But, you know, when you're a manufacturer, it's become a little bit more established. How are you going to gauge that? How are you going to make those runs? So if Stern's got a little more figured out, because they can just throw old games back on the line and start rebuilding vault something real quick and throw it online and keep all their employees working. But you take somebody like CGC or JJP or somebody, that's got to be a super difficult thing to be able to try to gauge that next game and what that popularity is going to be, getting parts stocked up. You know what I'm saying? So you're kind of back and forth. you know, if it's a big hit, Oh man, we don't have games, but they're going to trickle out. Or now we got a bunch of games cause we anticipated it was going to be a big hit because of our last couple of games. And now we're setting on stock and what do we do? So like, I'm like you guys, like I don't envy that at all. Yeah. And you look at Stern. I mean, I, I would assume maybe this is, I would assume that James Bond is not as selling as well as they assumed. So instead of these runs, it's like all of a sudden, what do they have? They, well, they got more Godzilla's they can make. They have iron maidens. They can make, they have Jurassic Park premiums. they can make. It's just like, it's clearly, yeah, Stern has things figured out there where they can pull from the back catalog at any moment. And their line has been packed for years now. I mean, it's nonstop. Well, it's definitely hitting a moving target too. You're fine, Greg. It's just, what I'm saying is it just hits, it's like hitting a moving target when you're trying to determine how many games you need to produce, how much can this move? What's going to be the velocity of sell, you know, because it's like anything else. Their LEs are going to absolutely sell out every single time because because it's going to go to all the dealers and distributors and we're going to be able to sell it out. Now it becomes is the pros and the premiums. How well are those going to sell? That's that's the tough part right there. And that's what we're seeing with Bond right now. I mean, it's it's awfully hard to get games moving. That's kind of set up like Bond is currently. Well, and I think Bond. So I think, you know, there was, you know, a decently recent code update. I think Bond to me is going just because I actually like the way it shoots. I know it's gotten a lot of flack. I know that, you know, the code early on obviously was a lot behind it. But I think it's going to be another rush. I think that, you know, any of us distributors or anybody that has a game sitting, I think those games are going to sell. I think that they're going to have to throw it back on the line again because I do think that it's going to, over the next year, creep up as like this kind of sleeper. Especially if there's a lull or there's a miss. you know if they come out with something like venom or any rumor rumored titles that come out and it doesn't do as well as they think people are going to take that money and go somewhere else with it and i think it's going to be to a game like that it's like oh man you know i've got some time on that game i really liked it let me try it out you know i've done that with games before and i really think that's going to be kind of another sleeper um you know that comes up well i would say as of right now every other game in stern's catalog is basically a complete game even though Foo Fighters isn't 1.0 that's a complete game so it's it's hard to i mean bond is getting there but yes you know a month or two back it's just like well if you have money to buy something brand new it's like do you want to play the game of bond and hope the code involved you know yeah becomes what you want it to be or do you just get one that's basically amazing right out of the box like bond is kind of going through this weird time right now so one of the things that you can do to kind of get a glimpse of if a game's going to be a decent seller or not. It's basically three variables are involved in it. It's going to be theme. It's going to be, is the layout dynamic looking, meaning like, does it just look fun to shoot? And how's the artwork? Like those three things are really going to be the very beginning of whether or not it catches people's eyes because nobody can really gauge what the code is going to be, but the code will help it get past that first, that first few months. So if the code is there, after the first run and people realize it, that's when the popularity really starts to go up from there. And that's what we saw with Godzilla. That's what you're seeing with Foo Fighters. I mean, because it's huge out of the gate, right? And then it just feels like it just keeps going. So if you don't have those three variables in place or something's off, it definitely gives people cause to pause. And that's kind of what we saw with Bond. I mean, it was a theme that maybe not everybody felt like it was a good theme for them just because it's a little bit older theme. I know the artwork, there was a lot of people that weren't pleased with the artwork, even though that technically was the assets from the theme, right? So I think that those two things just go together that if you're not into the theme, you're probably not going to be into the artwork either. So it's kind of like a two for one deal. And so when you put those into that, into that variable, right, then the code has to be like really good just to keep it going at that point. Godzilla, for example, I mean, who really cares? I mean, Godzilla is amazing artwork. So it had that but i mean who the hell really cared about godzilla really like you know there was a handful of people nobody cared but because it was such an incredibly coded game and it shot so well it was like i don't care it's godzilla like i love godzilla now you know yeah and i think iron maiden i think there's been pins has done it in the past too like iron maiden like i think that there wasn't i mean there's a lot of iron maiden fans it's a it's a big base or very well known band but i think a lot of people are like i don't care about iron main i don't care and they played it and they're like i gotta have iron oh yeah like i'm a fan now like exactly there so godzilla is 100 that and i think it's hilarious i i never i did not care about godzilla in any way before and i remember when they announced the game i was like it's like it's not a turnoff like yeah well this is probably a terrible example but like elvira it's not a turnoff but it's i can't i can't justify like that's a team i can't have in my house so it's like an immediate like oh crap Like in walking dead's another situation. I can't have that game in my house with little kids. It's not a theme like that. Like it's not a turnoff in that way, but Godzilla shows up and I'm like, this is not only is it amazing game, but the, like, it's so funny and campy. And, and, and actually like my kids love it. And to the point where Godzilla has actually talked about as a joke or like the, the song, the blue oyster cold song, like my, my son, a three-year-old requests it. He thinks it's a funny song. Like, I don't, I just, it's almost like, I've become an actual legitimate Godzilla fan. Well, they went the right direction with it. Oh, yeah. If they did the current Godzilla. It's serious. Yeah. Yeah. It wouldn't be near as well received as it is now. It'd still be popular because it's an L1 and the layout and the rules are great. But yeah, it wouldn't get the universal praise. It does now just based on that alone. Like that theme really does help carry it a little bit. And the fact that they leaned into the campiness that carries it even more. I mean, that was a brilliant decision by starting to do that. And you said universal praise. So perfect transition to the topper. Universally loved by everyone that's seen it. The topper is here. So let's be real. Let's be honest. First impressions. When you guys saw the topper, what was your legitimate first impression? You saw the two seconds of Stern's video. Oh, no. I audibly said, oh, no. I audibly said that. It's a weird spot. It's like, okay, there's so many Godzillas that are out there. Yes. We figured the topper is going to sell no matter what. So it's not an opinion of whether or not they're going to sell or not. It'll sell. I mean, they could put like a little two-inch figurine Godzilla in there and it would sell. My concern was is that just the video that they put out with all the accessories, I was very confused how they just kind of slapped that towards the end. It was very brief. There was almost nothing. Yeah. And we actually timed it just to see because I watched it probably like 10 times because I was so confused. I'm like, what does this topper do? Is there supposed to be a mode with it? Like, what's going on? You had no indication. I think you said there was more footage of people flipping their hands than there was the topper. There was nearly double the footage of hands on the topper. And I'm like, what is happening here? So I was just I was very confused. And I was talking to the people within our company. I'm like, are they coming out with another trailer here or is this it? And so we just kind of just felt like, OK, well, this is it. So let's just cross our fingers and hope that comes out with the video, because I figured he would look at that. He'd be like, no, I can't can't stand for this. Luckily, luckily, Zach came through with flying colors because you just really didn't get an indication. What does Topper looks like? And from everybody that has seen it now in person they like OK it looks totally different and it actually it really good for what it is I mean nobody saying it great like Black Knight or something like that and that fine It doesn't have to be that. But you're not turned off. You're not like, oh, I can't buy that. Turned off. Perfect timing. His camera turns off. Well, damn the powers of the bone. Man, the script writing in this episode is fantastic. We are on it. So, Greg, you saw it. You saw it. What did you think when you saw it? Same thing. I was kind of like, I don't know about that. And then I saw Zach's video. I was like, okay, that's great, man. I won't say great. It's really good. His video was great. The topper's good. And then yesterday he had it, and I got to see it in person. It's a lot better in person. The buildings look good and stuff on there. I would have went a different direction, I guess. Sure. But I'm not mad at it. the things that I would probably want would probably be too difficult to do or not cost effective. And that's one thing I like about it too, is it's pretty cool topper and you know, it's a bit cheaper than what we went with Mandalorian and everything else. So, you know, it's kind of refreshing to see a good topper, but a hell of a lot cheaper. Yeah. Well, it's funny that we're, yeah, it's funny that a thousand dollars is something to be excited about, right? Like it's cheaper, but, and full disclaimer here, I, toppers are expensive. Toppers are expensive. And there are a hundred percent, there are, there are thousands of better things to spend a thousand dollars on. So many better things. So we're not golf carts. Like we're not, so we're not going to sit here and argue whether or not buying the toppers a good decision. The answer is no. I mean, but buying a pinball machine is probably not a good decision either, but this, we, we understand this is an expensive hobby. So yes, I am grateful though, that it's a thousand dollar topper, not a $2,000 topper. I agree with you on that. when I saw the video, my, I, I, like I said, I literally said out loud, Oh no. Like that was it. Like it was a disappointing, like, Oh, and, and then the video is over. We're like, that's it. So I'm like scouring, looking at Stern's like, there's, there was nothing, there was no info. And so what do you do? You go to Penn side and pages and pages of people just ripping it apart. I mean, I love the, the laughter at the zip tie. I mean, just tearing it apart. So you're trying to, Here I am trying to be optimistic. And I will say that after Zach put out his video and then I had a chance to stream it the other day, Pinside's gotten really quiet. It's gotten really quiet when you actually provide quality, you know, video showing what the topper can do. Well, it's providing context to the product. Yes. Because there was zero context provided in it. And then the other thing that you actually pointed out to me, Travis, which it wasn't mentioned at all in the video was the exclusive mode. Like there's an, there's an exclusive mode to the game and it's not, it was briefly mentioned in Stern's press relief and press release. And that's it. And so it's like, there's value to that mode. And I, but at the same time, I also know you say exclusive mode to some people and they're like DLC and they freak out, you know, that I'm paying for something that's just part of society anymore. You got a console game, you got a PC game, you got DLC, You got those little mobile games on your phone. You got DLC. And again, as long as I'm not missing something from it, like from the game itself, which no one can argue that there's anything at all missing from Godzilla, really. Like, I'm fine with something buying a topper for an extra mode or something special that they put a little extra time into or that was an afterthought. You know, I'm completely good with that in that context. Sure. And I know some of the other DLC modes, right, were like Jurassic Park had Goat Mania. And everybody's like, nah, nobody needs that. Like, and I forget there was something else and people like they brushed it off. And then to the surprise though, later on, um, insider connected, bring those modes. So like now everybody has, if you have insider connect, you have access to that mode. So it's, so some people are holding out on that. They're like, well, I assume down the road, um, Stern will just give it to everybody. I don't know. I don't know. But what I will say is I have it. I have, um, I have it on my game. I was super grateful Keith Elwin, Rick Nagel and George Gomez they made it happen where I had actually reached out to Keith I said hey I'm going to get one of the toppers in on Tuesday I'm going to stream the game on Wednesday just don't want to show it off is the new mode in the game? and he said no and I was like oh bummer you know no worries and he goes let me see if I can get you beta code I'm like okay and Rick was literally coding it he was making some adjustments to it on Wednesday I got it I got access to the code like three hours before the stream and updated my game. So I have access to the beta code. What the beta code is, and this will be released, but if you have the topper, you get access to King of the Monsters Time Attack. So King of the Monsters, correct me if I'm wrong, Travis, you've probably actually been there in the game. King of the Monsters is the very end of the game, right? Yes. So you get through. It has two stages to it. You've got to fight all the monsters. Okay. It's only two stages? There isn't any more? I think at least there's only two stages. I don't know. I haven't made it past stage two, so I don't know. I don't know if I would actually end it or not. But the question is, so how do you actually get to King of the Monsters in the game? You have to get all the way to Planet X and then beat Planet X? Or is it? I have no idea. I think there's a lot of things you have to do to get to it. I'll be honest. I have actually never been there. I've seen it, but I've never been there. Travis Muri, top, what, 25 player in the world. There's a game in, there's a mode in Godzilla that you have not achieved. I have not seen it. No, I play Planet X, but I've heard of King of the Monsters. You've played it before I have, Joel. So what I will tell you though, is the mode is fantastic. Like it is, it is really, really good. And my thought is if Keith has put forth that much time to make this incredible wizard mode and Rick Nagel has coded this incredible wizard mode, but yet no one's going to see it. No one's going to see it. I'm really glad they've given us the ability to do it. In a perfect world, they give it to everybody, right? I will say when I have Turtles, it's at my parents' house, but Half-Shell Challenge. Half-Shell Challenge is a mode that you can just go right to, and it is a blast. It's a time mode. It's genuinely one of my favorite things about that game, and that's all I've played. That's all I've played on Godzilla the last few days is coming down here, and there's something mentally about knowing you have this kind of bite-size thing. I'm only doing this, and that's it. You're not going to get locked into a 45-minute game. It gives you five minutes when you start. And to get through the first phase, your time is counting down, and then it gives you a little more time when you get to the second phase. And whatever time you have left from the first time, that's it. That's all you have to do the second phase. And I've run out of time every time. I've yet to beat the second phase. But it's awesome. It's definitely a pulls, draws you in one more game. So I'm just amazed. The mode is fantastic, but nobody's talking about it. Nobody talked about it in the press release. Nobody looks at that as a selling point. To me, it's absolutely a selling point. I would tell you right now, if you took the topper off, I would miss the mode more than I'd miss the topper. And that says nothing bad about the topper. But, yeah, overall, the light integration, I'm actually very impressed by. You can see the stream on flipping out. There's also a video showing it. And then the, to be honest though, I will take the Godzilla figure off and I will replace it with another one. That's what I did in my game. We actually bought this really cool figure. My brother painted it. It looks awesome. But as soon as I saw the topper, I was like, okay, I'm going to move Jared's figure up to the topper. And then I want to get Stumbler's, the atomic Godzilla mod, which came out after I got that figure. But I looked and that thing's discontinued right now. So I'm on a waiting list to see if, to see if I could potentially get it. But I think once I swap that out, then I'm good. I will say the Mechagodzilla's eyes light up. You don't see that in the video. And Gigan's eyes light up. Like, there's actually a lot of really cool little nuances to the topper. So I think it'll be a topper that people will grow to love. But I do think Stern kind of shot themselves in the foot with their release because that two-second video of it wasn't great. Wasn't great. I don't know. It was just confusing. If you were somebody that didn't really know pinball too well and you happened to see it, you wouldn't know that the topper is an important part of the accessory experience. You would almost feel like it's an afterthought because it felt like the shooter knob and the blades were even more important to the overall gameplay than what the topper is. And, yeah, obviously, you don't see the topper when you play. Yeah. But when it has a mode associated with it, to me, that's a big deal, and that should be highlighted. And I understand the marketing behind grouping all the accessories. You want to sell, you want to promote your products, but it needed to be the big end grand finale, like spectacle to where you really show. That's where they met, you know, like it was just odd. They just needed more hands. The video needed more hands on a pinball machine. I mean, the only thing I can think of is there, there are a ton of lighting effects in this thing, like a ton of animations, whoever spent time. I don't know who's necessarily coding all the light show that's built in that topper, but I applaud you because there are a ton in there. The only thing I can think of is maybe when that was filmed, there weren't many animations. So instead of actually showing it too long, they could only show a tiny bit. That's very possible. You might be on to something there, Joel. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. But that's, I would say Godzilla, I mean, I'm loving it. If you're on the fence on the topper, feel free to watch either my live stream on Flip N Out Pinball or Zach has now made two videos. Watch that. But I think if you were already in, I think you will be happy with it. I genuinely, I think maybe it was, we all had these unrealistic expectations of what it could be. Then we were disappointed with what we saw. And now it's very easy to surprise yourself when you actually see it in person. I kept telling you, Joel, it was not going to actually breathe fire. I kept telling you that and you were so fired up about that. That's what I was saying about, I had hopes for things that weren't going to be reality. And that's why it just kind of crushed me because I wanted it to breathe fire. I was hoping for movement, but I will tell you with the turtle head, and then I've heard it also with the Led Zeppelin things, the servos they use for movement are loud. Yes. And, you know, with recording the podcast and stuff, like having that in the background, just – we've actually told Tom to turn off his Led Zeppelin topper when we record because you'll hear in the back of the – it's like – I mean, I appreciate your concert experience, Tom, that's going on in your room, but the listeners don't need to hear it. But what else was Stern? Stern, they've moved a bunch of stuff around. We have a game. It's coming, right? The next game should theoretically, I think August is the projected thing. And rumors are venom. Rumors are venom. And I know both of you guys are Marvel fans. I'm curious, Greg, just because I haven't really talked to you about it. I know Spider-Man is real big for you. I know you own a bunch of comics and whatnot. I mean, is venom one of those themes that really is getting you going? Yeah, it is. Especially if it's just done right. And obviously I think they've got to go comic book on that one. I mean, I love Tom Hardy. I love those movies. And they're going to go comic book. But I'm pretty excited about it, honestly. And like you said, they don't miss, so that makes it even more appealing to me. Because I've got a whole comic room, and I keep a couple of pins back there. And so I've got a Deadpool back there right now and an Iron Man, so I'd love to squeeze a Batman in there. Yeah. And I know my son, once again, three year old son is upset. He loves Spider-Man. So like I'm this is one of those games where I'm genuinely excited when I have a chance to stream it because I think he will. I think he'll really get into it. We do know we do know the next pin. We don't know if it is Venom or not, but we know the next pin is Zombie Eddie Art, Brian Eddy on design and Dwight on code. That's what we know. That's been that's been confirmed. Well, Gomez mentioned all that in a podcast. So it's got to be comic book arc then. It's got to be. And if it's not a complete miss, it's a guaranteed buy for me. Like it's guaranteed. And probably premium most likely on that one. Yeah, I'm excited. That is a theme that I'm very much excited for. Very much excited. I mean, Travis, I know your dream theme was Avengers, which you already have. But this would probably be, I don't know, Spider. I get it if it was more of a Spider-Man thing. And you've said before a theme that would absolutely crush would be if they did a like another Spider-Man into the multiverse type of game into the Spider-Verse. Like that would be with that type of art style and color. I agree. I think it'd be a huge hit for young people, you know, always trying to get young people and getting more kids and more people into it. That movie is so phenomenal. That series of movies is phenomenal. And kids and adults alike eat it up. So it's like that would be a huge, huge pin. Yeah, it'd be a top five for Stern of all time. in cells. There's no doubt about it. When it comes to Venom, though, let's just assume it is Venom. Of course, we don't know for sure, but we're going to make the assumption it actually would be coming out at a pretty good time if it came out around the August-September time frame, because the new Spider-Man video game for PS5 comes out in October. So the awareness of Spider-Man is going to go up, and Venom is supposed to be featured in that game. Now, it's not going to be the Eddie Brock version, but it's still Venom. So, I mean, it's kind of the timing is actually coming around to where it would make a lot of sense for it to come out around this time because then the awareness and people searching for spider-man and searching for venom will go up this fall i will tell you maybe this is just a random thought that i've had but from an art direction standpoint venom is he's a black character like i'm very curious if this is really going to be focused on venom from a color palette standpoint how zombie he's going to do that and all I can think of is like a lot of black, dark blue, dark purples. Like a lot of pinball machines don't look that way. And I will be honest. I mean, these are both incredible art packages, both Foo Fighters and Godzilla. But when you take a few steps back and look at them, if you squint your eyes a little bit, the color palettes are almost identical. You know, he's got that red, green, yellow color palette figured out. So I think this is going to be a drastic shift for him from a color palette. I don't know, man, because if you look at some of those, the covers of Venom, On some of the comics, I mean, they're not necessarily super muted. You know, there's some really colorful, like, 90s rendition, you know, that kind of pop. I mean, it's nowhere near what he does now, obviously. Sure. You know, super color saturation, you know, rich. But, I mean, there are some decent colors to work in there around that particular character. Yeah, sure. I mean, I think he'll crush it. It will be weird. Yeah, I think he'll crush it. I'm just somebody who pointed out a lot of times in pinball, you don't see a lot of green, like a lot of heavy green and you don't see black. Like and and so that's what coming up. I'm like, this is this is going to be interesting. This is going to be interesting to see how this how this. Well, I mean, you have to assume that Venom is going to fight villains like Venom is going to be the anti hero. So if you're running under that assumption, then the color scheme is going to be based off them also a little bit. So I'd be shocked if you didn't have carnage in the game, which is red. Right up his alley. Greg loves red zombie-heavy games. That's why I said right up his alley. You're going to have some colors in the game. I don't see it being, you know. I don't think it's going to be dull. I just think it's going to be an interesting challenge. The way Venom is, too, as most of the comics like Greg alluded to, it's that the colors around it are the opposite of Venom. Like they want you to know Venom is Venom. So there's some storylines in which, of course, the colors are black around him or a little bit dark around him. But I don't necessarily see them doing that with the pinball machine just because you want things to really stand out. And if you have a little bit more colors around, that's just going to make Venom stand out even more when you see him on the play field or see him in the artwork. Well, I'm excited. I mean, Brian Eddy, he he is a creative like I just feel like he always is pushing for something kind of out of the box, unique. I don't know. I mean, Shadow is still my favorite layout of his, but I'm just curious. I'm really curious to see what he's going to do. And then we know Dwight really does theme well, theme integrations well, light shows well. So this is a game I'm genuinely excited about. I'm genuinely looking forward to it. If that ends up being it, I'm really looking forward to it. Sternways, I don't know. Anything else from Stern or news from Stern that you guys want to mention or talk about? That's probably about it. There's really not much. They're getting ready for their factory move here in a couple of months. So that's, I mean, it's almost like we're just kind of gliding into that. Yeah. At this point, they're producing the games that they can. I will say it's crazy that people have, distributors have Jurassic Park premiums in stock. Like, I don't know if that was ever going to be a thing. I mean, they've sold so well for so many years. And then Iron Maidens to see people like still getting now, getting an Iron Maiden brand new. And both are still selling hot. They're still selling hot. You still enjoying your, I mean, I know you're all in on Jurassic Park, but you still enjoying your Jurassic Park Premium I see right there in the background? Yeah. I mean, it's actually grown on me. It's taken some time to grow on me. I was still just disgruntled. You know, I was like kind of one of those people. It's like, oh, it's a fantastic game. You know, it's definitely a shooter's game. I mean, there can be some flow, but I mean, it's a shooting game. You get a lot of bricks. It's a challenge. It is. It really is. And so, like, I enjoy it, but I just, I wish that they would have still movie themed it more. You know, just being a fan. I was just separate from a lot of other people. I was like all the Star Wars people when Star Wars came out and everybody freaked out over Star Wars. Like, there's nothing in it. It's all so barren and everything. Well, I got that, but then the assets are all mixed up. You have a dinosaur from Jurassic World that doesn't even belong in Jurassic Park, and you just got raptors from the third. It was all over the place. And so that was disappointing to me. But no, I mean, I still love the way it shoots, man. It's one of probably my top five games. Yeah. Well, I know it's clear that the theme, like the theme is a huge part of that, though. Like, it's obviously a huge part of that. And I'm in a similar boat with Turtles. Like, I really do genuinely love Turtles. But the reason Turtles is still here is because it's Turtles. Yeah. And I mean, I know, Travis, you've probably seen every square inch of Avengers, but I don't think it'll ever leave your house because it's Avengers. You know, I just, and it's Keith at one foot, you know. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. That's why it stays. I mean, you know, it's just, yeah, it's still good. and it's Jurassic Park and I'm lucky. You can't complain too much when you've got a theme that's literally 30 years old Sunday that they remade again. So, like, I'm lucky to have three of my favorite. Three Jurassic Park games. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, I won't complain about it. Yeah, that's fair. Well, good. Well, Stern, well done. Keep doing what you're doing. You're doing it really well. Let's transition to JJP. JJP, this is kind of a spoiler for my stream coming up on Wednesday, but Zach dropped off a Godfather LE. So I have Godfather to stream now. Two things with that. First, he didn't drop it off. A buddy of mine picked it up, but Zach gave me his old Escalera. So Zach got a new Escalera. I now have his Escalera that's probably moved hundreds of pins at this point. The thing is definitely used. It's definitely used. But I will say now using, now actually physically using an Escalera to move a pin up and down basement stairs. Incredible. What an incredible machine. It really is. If you are a collector and you have a basement and you're one of those people that genuinely is moving games frequently, just save your back and buy an Escalera. I'm not trying to shill it. I just, it really, they work so well. They work, they really, it's the right tool for the job. Once you learn that balance and you get over that initial fear, it is, it's a game changer. Yeah. It's just nice to be able to move something without having to call a buddy, call somebody over, go get a neighbor, or wait to move a game until you get somebody over. It's like, okay, immediately I can get that downstairs into my basement and we're good. Yep. The hardest part was getting it out of the back of the car onto the ground. That was genuinely the hardest part of the whole thing. But once you did it, boom, strap it up to the Scalera and all the way down. It's awesome. Once again, unboxing a JJP game is an experience. I just always forget how nice they are and it's nothing against Stern but I'm used to unboxing Stern Pros this is a limited edition this is an LE level game the powder coating it's so shiny it's so nice the quality I've just once again blown away I felt the same thing when I unboxed Toy Story they really do make a beautiful pin they make a beautiful pin And shout out to Christopher Franchi. The artwork on this really is exceptional. And you forget how big that screen is until you turn it on next to a stern. JJP's doing a whole lot right, a whole lot right with their presentation and the overall quality. And I'm impressed. I'm impressed with it. My wife said the same thing when she came down. I mean, it's a beautiful-looking game. I'd never seen Godfather. My wife and I actually watched it together earlier this week. What? Watched it, experienced it. It just had never happened. My takeaway is great movie. It's definitely a theme I would never ask for, for a pinball machine. But now that I've seen the movie, shout out, you know, props to Eric, the integration of how he's integrated different scenes and different clips into some of the different modes. I mean, genuinely it's very well done. I would assume if you are a Godfather fan, you are probably very happy with their overall execution of this game. I'm still early onto it. It's a, It's a JJP game with Kiefer Code. It's a lot of multi-balls, a lot going on all at once, and really trying to understand and decipher the best way to tackle it and work your way through it. I've watched some of Carl D'Python Anghelo on IE Pinball, some of his streams, just really trying to wrap my mind around it on really the best way to progress through the game. There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on. The family's weapons, there's a lot to take in and a lot to explore. That's one thing you can say about the game. It's not a learning curve. It's just an exploration. Every time you play it, you're picking up something new. Yep. And Hobbit, when I had Hobbit, was that way. My love of that game grew the longer I had it because you really start to learn it. GNR was a similar thing. I streamed that and had that for months. The more and more and more and more you learn about how much is actually going on in that game, it really is incredible. Toy Story was a step back. Not in a bad way, but it was a lot easier to digest what you're doing in Toy Story and how to approach it. That was more kind of the way my mind works. That was easy to do and enjoy. This is back to like, all right, get the notepad out and let's figure this out. Have you at least found a baseline for it? Like a baseline strategy? Yeah, I don't really care. I mean, I don't really care about points. But I'm seeing like I understand the multiplier and I get how important that is to build up your weapons. And I know there's a lot there. I'm going to stream it. I'm probably going to have chat. Tell me all the things I'm doing wrong. And then hopefully JJP has actually reached out. There's a chance that maybe I'll get somebody from from JJP either in chat or potentially even to talk about it more. So I just I want to get one stream under my belt for sure of just, you know, a good, solid baseline. But I know Tom has one. You pointed out something right there, Joel, that I think would be important for some of the listeners to hear, though. Because how long have you had Godfather? About a week. Okay, so if you're not interested in points, what are you generally like? How are you attacking it? Like what do you want to see or what shots are you going for or what do you see that's satisfying to do? What combos? Have you figured that part out yet or at least have a little bit of an idea? What's funny is normally when I get a certain game or any other game, the goal is always, well, how do I get to multiball? That's always the – usually you're going to be progressing through something and then you get the multiball. That's not how JJP rolls. You can fall into multiballs. So I'm not motivated by the multiball. It's more just about jobs and getting into a job and realizing that when you're in a job, what each job does and how you can progress through them because there's kind of a cash-out system there. and just kind of feel like I actually understand what I'm doing. And once I know that, then it's easy to like, okay, start the job. Let's start this multiball. I do enjoy hitting the guy. Beating them up isn't super satisfying the first two ones, but once they get deeper in the game, you actually have to flip the flippers and spin the disc and do some stuff. But I will say I do enjoy the layout. The layout is very entertaining, and, man, those diverters, it surprises me all the time, all the time where that ball comes out. I don't, Greg, have you played Godfather at all? Oh, I get to play a little bit. And then, you know, kind of that initial first when we were filming on it a little bit. But yeah, I mean, I kind of agree with you in the same way. Like it's definitely a journey. Oh, yeah. Pinball machine. And like you said, the diverters are probably the best part, which Eric designed, you know, to be almost a toy within themselves. Yeah. Just so you didn't know where it is. I know a lot of people don look at it as being a true toy or anything But like you said it can be as fun as it because you don know where the hell the ball come from You don know what it going to do every time So I mean yeah I mean I like it It shoots good. There's a lot going on in it. It's just, yeah, I mean, theme is theme. Okay. Yeah. I'm excited to let it grow on me, but my view, I've kind of had this with every J.J.P. I've stepped up to. Like if I just stepped up to up to this game in a bar and I put in a dollar or two dollars, like if I only put in one or two games, there's just so much there. It's hard. Yeah, I think it would be hard to grab me. It'd be hard to grab me. So it just I really think JJP does a great job of making home kind of a home use only game of like you're buying this because you're prepared to buckle in and put a lot of games on this. And there's going to be a lot for you to unfold the more and more time you put on it. while some people on maybe a stern where it's like they bring it into their home and after a week or two of having it they may see everything that's in the game and i'm not saying that's shallow it's just it's just different it's just a totally different type of ownership so uh or sorry tom i know owns one travis were you considering getting a godfather because i oh yeah i was considering it i mean the theme doesn't do anything for me but when i had eric explaining to me at TPF, the game started making a lot more sense and I was seeing the shots for what they were and I was kind of getting an idea of how to flow through the game. And so it's something that's totally different than what is out there for anything else from any other company. So that's, that's interesting to me just to have something different and not just feel like you're just, you know, doing the same progression every single time or even a similar layout. So, I mean, In that regard, that's what's catching my eye. And if I had the choice, I would get this pin 100 times over, over Toy Story and all that. But my vote's still against all the women in the house, too. Are your twins talking to you yet? No. No? No. They'll get over it eventually. I mean, I probably got to take them to Disney World or something at this point. Oh, here? I'm up Schitt's Creek completely. Like I watching Carl or watching IU pinball stream the game though. It's very much like he, he knows what he's doing and he's doing the modes in a very particular order because he wants this and he wants this perk. And then to see him like play and he's like, all right, I should probably build this a little more. All right, let me use my elbow to hit the 10 times multiplier and then hit this one crazy shot for a gazillion points. I mean, it's, that's the type of complexity that I doubt I will ever get to, but just knowing that I do think that's cool for the higher level players to, to give you that type of challenge. It's just that risk-reward. It's like one of the ultimate risk-reward games. Like, how far do you take it? Yeah. JGP, apparently the collector's editions are on the line, so it'll be cool to see some unboxings there. I mean, I'm telling you, the LE is already a gorgeous game, so I have no doubt the CE, I don't know. I think there will be plenty of collectors that will be very happy when those show up on their door. I know we talked a little bit about it already. I am curious, Greg, maybe you have some thoughts on it. But Harry Potter, we don't have to go crazy into it. I mean, that's still the rumor. We have no idea how long it just sounds like JJP has it. We've never heard. We haven't yet to hear any sort of confirmation on it. But one thing that keeps staying in my head is Stern's smart. Stern is really smart. And if they lost this license, did they lose it or did they pass on it? And my question is, if they passed on it, why? and there's been a lot of discussion i don't know we've been talking about this with with some people i mean travis and others and and whatnot and and if stern passed on harry potter why and um i don't know i have some interesting thoughts there and you know licensing is obviously a huge part of that right you know like um james bond they've they've run into many brick walls with that and the restrictions of that license. So is there a chance that what they learned was the Harry Potter license was going to be so restricting that they didn't want to touch it? Or is there something else? I don't know. Overall thoughts on your... That's where my mind would go, would obviously be possibly not full assets or not enough assets of what they felt they needed, that it was going to have to be too generic. Or like you said, restrictive. I mean, it was a license that no one thought they were going to get anyways, that any pinball manufacturer would get just because of JK Rowling. Like, you know, the way that her stance on everything. So it's like, it's like how, Oh, he's gone. No, he's his camera. Sorry, Greg, that, that Joel is interrupting you here. Joel, be nice to our guest. Joel, man, come on. I'm so excited about this. How did Travis's camera go off? And this is my fault. I'm the one. Sorry. Keep going, Greg. No, Is it too restrictive? Because, you know, did they just not want that battle because there was some stipulations up front that they knew they were going to have to fight? Or did they just have something that set them off in some conversation with the license holder that made them feel they weren't going to be able to do this justice and it was going to maybe backfire on them? But then again, it's like, I don't know, even if it was, that I wouldn't take the risk because it's Harry Potter and you're still going to sell. more units than anything else. Here's my crazy thought, right? Here's my crazy thought. So the rumor was JK Rowling doesn't like pinball because she doesn't like bars. She doesn't like that. So what if there was some stipulation of, like, I don't want these in bars? Well, we can't control that, right? We can't control where they're sold. So what could you do to a pinball machine to keep it from being a location game? Pull the coin mechs. Pull the coin mechs. So that's my question. What if that is actually the stipulation? Would Stern pass on a license if they're not allowed to have a coin door? I could see that happen. And who better makes, like, J.J.P. is clear they like making home games. I don't know. It's a crazy thought. It's a thought that never crossed my mind. It's a crazy thought. So my thought is, like, does that bother me? No, I don't, like, coin doors don't mean anything to me. I don't care. Like, would I still? That doesn't hurt. That doesn't hinder my buying thought. But, like, what does that mean? Like, I mean, this is, I don't know anything. I don't know anything. But what's been grinding on my head is if Stern, maybe Stern did lose it. Maybe this was a whoopsie. but reality is or my thought is if stern passed on it or if there was something in the licensor that was a barrier for stern that they couldn't meet eye to eye on what could that be and i don't it's just a thought that that i that's come to my like what if that's the thought as you know well i'm okay with it but no coin mix i don't know it is a thought it is a thought so we will see i don't know i don't know what that means um but i think it would be an interesting discussion i mean it's a it's it's plausible but i think it would have to be something different from that i don't know it would be a weird i don't know i don't know i mean i you you look at stern though they are all about tournaments they're all about their stern army they're all about their on location reveals locations everything and if and if stern saying like i know this is probably one of the biggest like oh greg's camera went out what this is one of the biggest licenses ever yeah my camera's on okay but if it's if that's the view is like this is one of the biggest licenses ever but you know what we we got a hold to our guns we are dedicated to location play and sorry you know off to the next one i don't know but i think i would just say that there's always a reason there's got to be a reason yeah there's always a reason uh and that's all i can say about that topic that's okay i don't yeah this is this is all speculation yeah and i don't i don't want to put anybody in a bad spot but um greg you doing all right you can you hear us or did we like lose greg i think he's here i don't know we'll see good thing you can edit this possibly possibly It depends on how long and awkward the silence is. Oh, he's back. There he is. I would say that is not long enough for me to put in the time to edit it out. We're going to leave it there. You're good. Our first other El Gato no signal. I love it. The first? Oh, yeah, the first person. Hey. All right, JGP, check. I think we can check that box. Scooby-Doo. So Spooky Pinball. Spooky Pinball is just pumping out games. They're pumping out Scooby-Doo. So props that they are continuing to make them. But I follow their YouTube channel, and they're continuing to update code. There's more and more code coming out. Greg, you own a Scooby-Doo? You have one in your house? You've played the heck out of it? Go for it. I've had it since March. Okay. I guess I picked it up at the Louisville show. Because it's another one of those games. I mean, it's early. it's very early in code um it is a long player uh you know especially for you tournament guys definitely like you you definitely need to move those posts um that left one and maybe you can even entirely remove the right post uh which you know frees it up a lot better it's i actually like the way it shoots like i don't mind the way it shoots i think it's it's not bad at all like i'm not mad at it by any means uh code code is just so in its infancy still you know like all the basis is there with you know your monsters and the modes and stuff that you're going to go through uh but it's still kind of in its infancy and and i just after playing it a lot uh you know it's one honestly it's one of the most gorgeous games i've ever seen like in person when you have it in your home it's a statement piece that's what i always tell everybody it's like there is not a game in your house no matter what collection you have that looks anything like this game or that you can even honestly come close to aesthetics with all the toys the colored wire forms just everything with Like it is just, it is gorgeous. And it just stands out. But like I, it's, I just, I need a little more into it than the modes. You know, like I equate it to something like, you know, I love Deadpool. I still love Deadpool. And Deadpool, like Zach kind of is like, oh, Deadpool, it's just, you know, it's a little too easy. I just push through it and everything. And I get that. But there's so many small moments in there. And there's so many different things like that that's going on. that it keeps you interested. You're kind of intrigued. You know, your dazzler pops up or you've got a team up running or, you know, you go into mech suit multiball. You've got some of these things that as you progress, you kind of know to expect that kind of, I don't know, it gives you something to look forward to. I need a little bit of that in this game. Like I need something kind of unexpected that I start some little sub modes or something else that I start other than just trying to progress towards a multiball, which the multi-balls are cool. The locks on the apron is super awesome. Like, I actually really like that. That's really cool. It's innovative. But, yeah, I just need – I just need – You need a little polish is what it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah, there should be some filler, some filler. Yeah. So I think it's – that's interesting because you're almost talking about hurry-up modes or potential things that would distract you along the way. And, you know, like I think Dwight is really good at – Dwight Sullivan is really good at that. He has plenty of those. Some people get really frustrated by hurry up modes because they think they're interrupting what they're trying to do, the bigger picture. But I don't mind being pulled those random directions. I mean, Godzilla, you have a gazillion things all going or you're working towards a ton of them at the same time. None of them interrupt you besides like a destruction jackpot. Like nothing interrupts you, but you're always progressing and you can divert into whatever you need to get to at any time. Like side quest, basically. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the key to an excellent code or an excellent rule set. When you have these many side quests that are there that you don't necessarily need to focus on but can add to your overall progression. But if you want to, you can completely abandon whatever it was you were doing and go to something else. So you never feel in jail. It never feels like a true grind. It never feels like you're hitting a wall. So that's the key to a great code. When you just have your structured modes and you just have your modes there, then it's just, okay, I'm out of that mode. I'm just going directly into another mode. And that's the only thing you can focus on where, and it doesn't, I mean, like you said, a lot of games feel grindy. This doesn't really feel grindy because the modes are so funny. You kind of look forward to going into them, but it does just because there's not like, okay, I'm just looking forward to the next mode. Like I want to be able to progress in something, an experience, a different experience hit me the further I go along, which I think they'll get there. Cause I mean, I don't know. Halloween is sort of structured the same way, but I love Halloween. I think you guys hate Halloween yeah so maybe that's a question if you had to sell one of those two right now would you get rid of Scooby so you used to no offense to anything but I love Halloween I don't know why like something when I first got it I didn't think I would but I love the modes in it it's a little challenging for me I'm not as good as you guys it's a little challenging for me to progress through those modes but it's still doable and I don't know man It's just something just so, I don't know, I love it. You love Scoop is what I'm hearing. You love Scoops. Oh, Halloween. Oh, Scoops. Yeah, you just love the ball leaving the play field and coming up back in your inline. I can do away with the hedges over there and those. I can do away with that. That's kind of wasted over there in a sense. But, man, I don't know. I like everything. I kind of like the layout because we always complain. You guys are different being tournament players. but like, I think you always complain for like this different layout, something different, something different. And this game is just different. It's so different, but it's still pretty smooth. It still shoots well. It's, you know, still got really good modes in it. And I, I think it just maybe deviates for most people just a little too far from that normal fan layout that it messes with them. But I don't know, do I love it? Hey, that's the best part about pinball, right? Everybody can love what they want to love. And there's so many games out there. There's so many different types of games and, you know, me saying that one game's good and one's bad, in my opinion, doesn't mean anything. Well, some games click with people. I always tell people that. I'm like, you know, there's games like Walking Dead. I can kill Walking Dead, and I'm not a real great player, but it fits. Same thing with Godzilla. I can blow up Godzilla. But for some reason, just the geometry of that game or the way it feels clicks with me. But then other games that people just dominate, like Batman 66, I can't play a game worth a shit. I'm horrible at it. I'm horrible at it. No matter what strategy I go, I'm just, I can't, my scores are all low. So it's like some of that I think has to do with, you know, how people like a game too. If it just clicks with you and it feels good in your hands, like you resonate towards that no matter who likes it or who doesn't. A hundred percent. I mean, I always think of Game of Thrones, Chuck Work. Chuck Work, Eric. That guy loves Game of Thrones so much. He made, it's like six hours of YouTube videos. The tutorial of that is insane. Explaining that game. The tutorial is longer than the series. Yeah. Look at the series. It's incredible. But that's something that some people, they look at Game of Thrones. I know George Fisher, Don't Panic Flip, streamed it. Like he could beat the game every single time. Like it just, to him, it was too easy of a game. But yet the idea of the way you could tackle it and do it is what kept pulling him in. So it was almost more just like they loved what Dwight did. The Dwight code they just feel is a masterpiece. and Chuck still thinks like Eric Wartenberg still is like, he still puts Game of Thrones as one of his all-time favorite greatest games. I've probably put 10 or less games on Game of Thrones. I didn't care for it at all, at all. Really? It just didn't, nothing. Shame on you, Joel. It just didn't, you know, the layout, like there wasn't anything kinetically that was exciting to me, and the code was so deep that it's just like I don't want to dive into that pool. Like I, I'm, I don't have the mental capacity to handle that right now. But you have a godfather. Well, I did, but, but that's here. That's a, there's a difference is when you have a game in your basement and you're not putting quarters in it and you can just put nothing but time into it and you can learn it. Maybe, maybe I'll, I'll, I'll backpedal. And, and, and at the end of the day, Game of Thrones ends up being like one. Maybe I agree. Maybe I'd be on that. I would honestly say Game of Thrones is probably my favorite Dwight Kodak game. Like I really do enjoy Game of Thrones overall. I don't own one, but I had one on loan for a while, a couple of years ago, like right when the new code came out for it. And it was a lot of fun. I put a lot of time on it and really enjoy the game. Well, you brought up a good point, Joel, that I've talked about before, too. There's a huge difference. Like your mind can completely change when you own a game versus playing it in a tournament or playing it on location, dropping some dollars into it or at a show. Like when you own some games in a home environment and just, you're able to open them up a little more or just experience, like, I don't know. There's just something different sometimes, but, and I've had it happen in reverse. There's games I've played on my face. I mean, my God, I love this and I get it home and I'm like, I don't get this. I'm pretty sick of it. And, and I mean, TNA is another very, uh, decisive game like that where it's just like decisive, divisive. What? I don't know. That's there. I love divisive. I will teach you how to speak English. Thank you for, yes. I love TNA I was waiting for somebody else to chime in He hammers me all the time So this is excellent Got him I said the wrong word You just say words wrong This isn't about me Joel So TNA Some people are like Why would anybody love that game You're doing the same thing over and over nine times But I don't I get it that's what's different It's a simple layout But some people, they need all the mechanical mechs. They need the most complex thing ever for them to like a pinball machine. Other people give me something simple but really challenging. I mean, that's what's great about pinball. Pinball is very unique, though, in which it's very much repetition-based. You're playing the same modes. You're doing the same layout. And you might see some deviation just from the physical movement of the ball. Sure. And that's about it. Otherwise, you're very much getting into repetition. and we're all creatures of habit. Once you blow up a game, it's very difficult to all of a sudden try a different strategy. Because you're like, okay, now I know how to get through to the end part of the game or whatever. And you kind of, you tend to keep doing that. You go the same path, yeah. Right. And so I think having a game at home, it allows you to explore a little bit more. It's very difficult for the majority of pinball players to go out on location and drop quarters into something with the idea that they're going to explore the game for a long period of time. You know, you might do that if you're considering buying it and you just happen to need to do it. But, you know, if I'm playing a game and it's brand new to me, I'm not necessarily thinking about just exploring everything about the game. I just want to know how do I light my modes? How do I get a multiball? And then I try to figure things out. It's the tournament mindset, right? Well, I think I even had that mindset before I even started playing tournaments. Because it's almost like I want to try out the different shots. Like if I'm at a show, then I don't care about the rules at all. I just want to try out the different shots. I want to see how it feels, how it shoots. And that's really my goal overall if I'm playing a game for the very first time is to figure that part out. And I can see how that's difficult for a lot of people to do if they're dropping coin drop in to explore a game. And it's just much easier if you get a game at your house and you're not having to worry about it. You can take the glass off. You can hit some switches. You could set your ball to five game or you could set your game to five ball or 10 ball, which I actually encourage a lot of people to do. If you're first trying to get used to a game like why not set it there so you can kind of see some stuff and you could always just, you know, erase the scores afterwards. I think that's a good way to kind of explore your pen and get used to the nuances of it early on. Well, to pull it back to Scooby. Sorry. No, no, no. You're no. This is this is how this show works. Scoobies to 10 balls. This is how this show works. We just go where the conversation goes. Scooby, a buddy of mine, Derek, got his, and I had a chance to see his. And I will say I agree with you. It is a beautiful game. The presentation of the game is exceptional in every way. And I played two games real quick when I was over at his house, and I had more fun playing those than I did at the show. I mean, actually hearing the game, it shot a lot better than at the show, So I don't know if that's just like, you know, better, stronger flippers. I don't know. Like the game actually felt kind of fast the way like if you're not paying attention on that upper flipper with the bookshelf or the bookcase flipper, that ball goes whizzing by right back to your left flipper. So it's like, OK, this actually has some, you know, this is kind of a unique thing. You got to pay attention here. The upper play field wasn't nearly as floaty as it felt like in TPF. And it can create some more challenging shots. And I was just saying, I mean, the light show is really impressive. and I think they do a good job of making the modes a storytelling type experience you know, instead of just hit lit shots, it's like no, you have to do this and then do this and that's why and this guy's chasing you and this or that, I mean if you hit these one shots then it shows up footprints, like and that's the wrong shot or whatever, you need to track down a picture and all kinds, like it is, that's what I'm saying the modes are really good, it has some really great great aspects and you know, back to that upper play field it's probably one of my upper favorite upper playfields ever um you know that that bookcase the way that it interacts and hit that well you know you just can't necessarily trap up because if you do then it's going to hit it's going to knock the ball across the play field which adds a little bit dynamic and sometimes you have to utilize that because like during black night there's a sling up there that you have to hit to engage it and so it's kind of hard and difficult to gauge and even get enough power off of that to smack that shot and light it And then even hitting down those ramps, hitting the, you know, the little alleys there to go down the ramps is, it's kind of difficult sometimes when you need those shots. Yeah, I mean, it's, I don't know, it's cool. Like, team integration is superb on it. Like, you know, like I said, with the clips and everything are amazing. They have a lot of time left. They're still making them. So that's my only thing with Spooky. My only little concern is, like, I don't really know how much time they're putting into Ultraman or Halloween code at this point. I would assume they've moved most of their focus. I know they hired that one guy, so maybe he's still focused on Halloween. Well, I thought he was going to be focused. I thought they said something, and I'd have to confirm with them, but I thought that they said something. They hired that guy just to keep working on it for, like, the next year. Yeah, so I hope they're still chugging away at it because nobody wants that. I mean, Stern's been accused of that before. And, I mean, people still complain about Pirates of the Caribbean with J.J.P. Like, it doesn't have the final wizard mode. Well, how many of you have been anywhere near it? You know? Yeah. So I hope that that gets fleshed out. I'm glad you're enjoying Halloween. My issues with Halloween were the first, I don't know, four or five versions I played. I just kept getting so many center ramp rejects that I'm like, I can't see the code because I can't shoot the game. So if you have a game that shoots well, that's awesome. I have not experienced that with Scooby. Like, at least I'm not experiencing any mechanical issues. So it's like, okay, they've got a solid base here with a unique and creative layout. So if they go nuts with the code and make something that's really enjoyable and fun to explore, you know, and people complain that the multiball song was dumb. So they put in a new song that you can change. Yes. The fact that they're responding to people, you know, shout out to Bug and Luke. They're super responsive. You know, like since Bug and them took it over, like they've been super responsive, I feel, to people. You know, sometimes I'm going to be too good because I might be listening to the wrong people. but sometimes you know they're pretty responsive to you know what people are wanting what people are looking for and the criticism people have you know i don't i don't think that they take it like a lot of people wouldn't take it as you know take offense to it they look at it and go okay this is something that maybe we do see too and we need correcting because enough people are saying so let's fix it because we want we want our games to be the best that they can be yeah yeah and i think they're solid about that because i mean i'm not hearing too many other than the ease like it's just a great it's a great family it's one of those things like what you talked about it's like great that you can put in the house that is still fun for you to play. You might run through it pretty quick, but the entire family, anybody that comes over can get on it and enjoy it. My only kind of thing mechanical is that damn ball lock up there with the – I don't know if you experienced that, Joel, when you were playing with his, just the time. It's like a double neck up there by that van, and it has to shoot. It shoots it up, and then it holds it, and then another coil has to shoot it out. I wish there was something up there where it was holding a ball and kept a ball up there ready. So you did, it's not a killer. You know, I talked about like when we first did first impressions, it's definitely not a killer, but it's just, it just slows it down. Yeah. I wish there was a little bit of more speed there that I could, I could skip. Yeah. No, I don't blame you. What I'm hearing here is that this pin is my way back into my twins lives. It could possibly be, I think they'd really like it. I have no doubt that my kids would like that game. I have no doubt. But yeah that just a never challenge of are you building your collection Are you trying to build one for your family What are you doing I don know Blah blah We know what Travis does Hey when my kids start paying the bills I start listening to them more Yeah. So, yeah, Scooby's – yeah, I'm glad that Scooby is – it seems like it's continuing to get better, which is cool. Because I think some of the issues that I had, at least with Halloween and Ultraman, were things they really can't fix. So it just kept going. But, I mean, I know I played a version, what was it, Klee Pin? That actually played really well. Or it was Pinsonetti, one of those. So I do know that there are games out there that you can tweak. Well, and that's what I think, like we talked at Zax, I think when we were there for the awards, we had talked about that, about how you kind of hated that center round. I was like, mine shoots perfect. And I guess that can definitely affect your thoughts on it. And if you can't really exploit it, you're just like, I give up. I'm done. Oh, 100%. There's so many. I mean, Stern even has games where people have a version of... Yeah, it's not just Spooky. No, it's like the same thing happened with Avengers and the Captain Marvel ramp, where people had to make a lot of adjustments to it. And then the same thing happens with the Rush Loop. If it doesn't register, there's a lot of people that are upset about that, and there had to be aftermarket mods for that. So, yeah, it's not just a spooky thing. It's definitely... It happens across the board. But you guys did hit the nail on the head earlier. What I really like about Spooky is that they are responsive to critiques. They are responsive to feedback. And I think that's a sign of a company that's going the right direction when they're able to do that and they're able to pivot like that. And they're able to just kind of it's almost like a live service game nearly to where they're able to make those changes that appeases the customer base that, you know, to flesh out the product a little bit more, the item a little bit more. So I think that's definitely a good thing on their part. Sure. I think they're always progressing. I think everything they do, they're getting better and better with every single game. Like, I think build quality. Like, I never had a problem with my Halloween. I got real lucky with my Halloween, I guess, because I know there was just certain fitment issues and different things that would go on. Nothing major with people, but it was still just issues that they had. Maybe more a little bit of quality control stuff. But as far as I know, Spooky was very quick to remedy those and help people. But with this, like, I haven't really heard too many people other than maybe some lighting issues with the topper. Like, I don't think that there's really been any big problems that I've heard people complain about with this. I think build quality is a lot better, and they've kind of focused on that with this game. Good on them. And I know it's a whole new board set in there. And people are like, what do you mean? So I haven't heard any issues with that. So it sounds like they're, yeah, it sounds like things are heading in the right direction, which is awesome. So we'll continue to watch that. And pretty much everybody else is kind of a, we're in a waiting game, which is surprising. American Pinball with Collective Tank Force. I didn't expect us to be in a waiting game, but it just doesn't seem like there are many out there. A bunch on location. I mean, they've had to make some fixes. Apparently, they had magnetized balls, which is one of the reasons the lock wasn't working. They've worked on the tank. I don't know. I was so on the hype train for that just because I love the thought of it. I still love the way the game looks, but I don't know. I don't know where they go from here. I hope. I'd say just give it a few months. because they're fixing the targets with what it is. And I'm sure the same way the code will mature even more based on the feedback that they get. So I'm interested to see where that game goes in the next couple of months. Yeah, but I know they've got to get them out there, right? And I hate to see that they've had issues, because I felt like that for the most part, you know, there were some tweaks and stuff with Houdini, but for the most part their games have all been pretty solid, and their manufacturing has been insane. Like, you know, you saw very few Houdini's that ever broke down or you ever had any issues with, man. and their manufacturing. I mean, they were getting games out. Now, granted, at that time, you know, through Hot Wheels and everything, it wasn't like there was massive, you know, back to when we were first talking about demand and stuff, you know, it was a little better. But they still, to figure out that manufacturing and to get it rolling like they did, I think people don't credit them enough for what they were able to accomplish early on and start getting games out. So, like, I kind of hate to see this far in that they've kind of come up with some issues and different things that are holding them back for once. yeah well I hope yeah I hope once they can get through those issues they can figure it out they can make a nice reliable game and then they can just continue to flesh out the game and um yeah we'll have to see on that apparently apparently uh Dave Fick said they're like uh certain bars it's out the Galactic Team Force is out performing Foo Fighters so I I don't know I don't know what bar that is but uh but yeah we will we'll see on that um so that's American. What else we got? Haggis is still chugging right along. Apparently they're supposed to announce their next game sometime soon, which is interesting because I think they still have a lot of fathoms left. I could be wrong on that. What else? There's Puny Factory. We mentioned that. Hexer, we mentioned that. Pinball Brothers with Queen. Dutch Pinball still making Big Lebowski. I mean, everybody else. CGC. CGC. I'll tell you, I'm waiting for an SE+. it's weird. I don't like this waiting game, but at the same time I can't feel bad because there are LE buyers that have been waiting a year and a half and still I think we're in the 700s out of 1250. I think it's 1250 or maybe it's 1500. They got a lot. They got a lot more to go. I just hope they get everything together because I'm ready for Pulp Fiction and that timeline just keeps creeping up fast. October seemed forever ago and now it's like October seems right around the corner. sort of thing. So like, I hope that they get it all together. I don't know professionally. What's the smart decision. Do you slow down your cactus Canyon production and try to do two lines and start on Pulp Fiction to help? Or do you, do you know, do you prioritize the people that have paid money? I'm pretty sure they have two separate lines for it. I'm pretty sure they will. Yeah. I think so. I don't know. He's an LE buyer of cactus. I'm 90% sure there's going to be two separate lines for it because with them announcing or saying, hey, here's when Pulp Fiction's coming, right? We see the cadence that Cactus Canyon's coming out now. It's like those two timelines are kind of going to intersect each other. I think the last thing they want to do is start pushing Pulp Fiction off because they announced it so early. And the last thing you want to do is that because then you're running a massive risk because we know whose next game is coming up pretty soon. And why would you want to release anything around that? For the listeners that are scratching their heads, Travis is talking about Keith Elwin's game, which is rumored to be end of the year, like very end of the year, early next year. And yeah, I don't think anybody wants to release anything. Why would you? It's like trying to go up against an Avengers movie event. You know what I mean? I mean, you might win some awards off to the side, but is your box office going to be any good? No, probably not. So that's a little bit tough to do. But here's my worry with pinball with right now, because we're naming off so many different companies and there's so many games. I'm kind of curious to see if we're going to hit that saturation point anytime soon. Like, I'm very curious because it just seems like there's a new there's a new manufacturer. And then the. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then the pinballs one. Yeah. I mean, there's so many coming out. And then the current manufacturers, they're actually producing more than one game. Like JJP is trying to up their cadence. I, you know, American pinball, they're trying to up their cadence. You just mentioned Agus doing the same thing. CGC with two separate games. I mean, it's kind of, it makes me curious to see where pinball is going to go from this fall. Like summer's always a slow time regardless because people getting outside, it's just how it is. But I'm very curious to see what happens come quarter three, quarter four. So I think we're going to see a lot more of what we currently are seeing, which is very hot and cold. I mean, there's going to be games where you cannot – we are nowhere near meet in demand. And then a lot of games are like they just don't sell. I think at this point you've got to come out with bangers at this point. I mean, we're starting with a new facility. They're going to be producing more games. I mean, you've got to be bringing your best every single time. Well, the last thing I wanted to chat about was – and I think it's unique because of the two of you, who you are. you guys are both official shills at this point. You both work for pinball companies, right? So you're not allowed to say anything negative, right? Any time that you say something negative, Travis, about a pinball machine, you are keeping food out of your children's mouths. Oh, yeah. We definitely did not say anything negative about the Godzilla topper earlier. Nothing negative. We definitely did not. See, look, the stern snipers getting me right now. Travis is out. He doesn't want any. Or it's just the opposite. There is no winning in our position because if you talk too good about something, you're literally just Win Schilling it. You can't like anything. You can't thoroughly enjoy anything because if you do, you're just trying to sell it. That's all you're doing is trying to sell that. Yeah, you can't have an opinion on something that may go against the norm because at that point, you're Win Schilling the shit out of it. You're done. Just to clarify, the only reason you like Halloween, Greg, is because you have a lot on the shelf and you have to sell them and that's your responsibility. We have an entire warehouse full of Halloweens that we just have to move. And you're about to lose your home because you can't sell without a discount. So I have to talk about how amazing that Hayden game is to sell the hell out of them. Yeah. Please, please. I have children. No. But, okay. But being that you now both have seen behind the curtain, I'm curious. What surprises you about that, being on the other side? What weren't you prepared for? Um, and I know like one thing, Travis, I know you've said many, many times is pinball is way bigger than people give people assume to go from just assuming it's the pinball, the pin side loyalists and a few extra, like you're saying, no, the pinball audience is way bigger than what we, well, I just go back to this. It's like how many people out there listening play video games, for instance, right? Like that may be one of your main hobbies that you do on a near daily basis. Okay. How many expos do you go to for that? How often are you posting online about video games? Probably a lot of people say, well, no, I don't do that. So, yeah, I think that the ones that see the expos and they see like Facebook and Pinside that they think that that's everything. And it's it's not. It's still a section of it. But, yeah, I mean, there's just a lot of people that know about pinball. Just take like Stern Pinball put something up on Facebook the other day where I think it was an actor like Jason Sudeikis from Saturday Night Live and Ted Lasso. and he was talking about pinball on there and he's been shown to have a few pinball machines so yeah oh he's a huge jjp fan that's why on ted lasso he showed off uh wizard of oz multiple times yeah exactly it's just it's just much larger but honestly it's not that that shocked me what shocks me is just i think the biggest surprise for me is when you get somebody that's very casual pinball are brand new, right? You assume that they don't know some things, which is perfectly fine. But then there's just some things that are just so off the wall that you're just like, I don't know how you didn't know that. Like, for instance, we had somebody get a machine and for like a week they were like, it doesn't come on. Like, okay. You know, you start going through everything. Well, is it the boards? Is it this? Is it that? And you don't want to be like condescending and you don't want to be rude and make assumptions. But finally I was just like, okay, do you know where the start button is? I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. I'm like, is it plugged in? It was not plugged in at all. They didn't even bother putting that there. So I mean, it's just like, it happens. And that's literally what mine was going to be. I took for granted how many new people are in pinball that don't experience pinball. And it's like you said, it's very hard because we're knowledgeable. You don't have to be the most knowledgeable. But to the same thing, I had somebody come in and they were like, oh this ramp's all screwed up i need this this ramp is messed up it it doesn't work right well all that had happened was the screw came loose on the post and the ramp the metal the wire guide it it shifted the metal ramp shifted a little bit i was like all you have to do is put that back over the in lane and tighten that screw down and they were like oh okay i can do that i'm like it's if you can work a screwdriver you're good yeah but you know they were terrified the broken rubber calls as well oh my flipper rubber broke what do i do it's like stop flipping like don't don't play anymore yes yeah i mean we've had that we've had some that have had a ball stuck in which they it just scared them to death they take the glass out you know and it's just it's those little things that like greg said we take for granted because we're used to it it's like second nature i had some of the broken bulb that popped out of a spotlight and it got banged around didn't work And I was like, it's a damn bulb. But then again, like if somebody that's new to, they don't have a stock of comet pinball bulbs or bulbs laying around like most of us do. So, you know, it was one of those things you gotta, you gotta pull it back a little bit and go, okay, if I was brand new, I never owned this thing in my life. Like what I do. Cause like when I very first, the lost world is my very first machine. I never was into pinball is what got me into pinball. Never thought about pinball. And when I got it home, played it for like two days, half my GI went out and I was like, uh, what is this and you know i called the guy i got it from he kind of talked to me like i was stupid a little bit um joel you probably know who it is um from your area and uh and he was like well did you uh you know did you lift the place or look it was lift the no look in the backbox and i was like there's shit in the backbox like yeah oh yeah yeah what are you talking about like you know and all it was was like a little relay thing i had to tap on it and then you know that clicks your gi You know, you hear it in the older games, like a white star was like, click, click, click, click. And the GI would flash. Well, that was just stuck and that's all it was. But I had no idea there was the board set and everything in the back. I thought everything was under the play field that he had showed me. And, you know, going back, I didn't know how to remove a bulb. First time I had to remove a bulb, I tried to pull it out. And, like, I didn't know you had to push down and turn. Like, I was like, it won't unscrew. I'll just pluck it out. Maybe it's like a wedge. But it wasn't, you know. And I broke the top off. I had to get pliers in there. Yeah. So, yeah, you got to you go back to those days like you just got to think, you know, put yourself in their shoes again when we all started. But yeah, it's fascinating. I remember when I bought I had bought I bought an avatar avatar pinball machine. And that was the first like real pin. It was actually. Yeah, I had bought one other one. But it was anyways, that was the first one I really bought. And I show up there and this family had owned it for years. And I remember thinking I'd read everything online. What do you do when you're buying your game? And they're like, well, check the boards on the back. And I remember getting there and I'm like, crap, how do I get the back glass off? And here I am. I literally pull up my phone on YouTube, like pinball back glass removal. And I was like, oh, okay. And then the lockdown bar, though, that they showed in that video had the lever. But this was a stern that had the latches. So I'm like, remove stern lockdown bar, like Googling that. And so I take that off and then slide the glass off. And they're like, I didn't know you could do that. You know, and then I get the key out and take the back. They're like, well, you know, they're blown. It's like this has been here in your house for four years. No idea. And I get that. So do you guys deal with that every day? We've had people call that literally they've left their game off for over a year because it has a ball stuck. And they didn't know how to remove the glass. I have no clue how they got a game in their house because, I mean, and Greg will tell you this. You'll get calls from people that don't even buy from you. And then they'll just have a lot of questions. So we hear it like everywhere. My most favorite one was somebody had said that their Jurassic Park was malfunctioning. And so their malfunction was, and you guys can suss this out quick, their malfunction was that multiple balls were getting kicked out onto the play field during the game, not before they plunged, during the game. So they didn't know there was a multiball. They had no idea. That would make me the best. That would make me the best. They were just like, my game malfunctioned. The way they described it, it doesn't happen every game, but sometimes it'll just randomly throw out balls into the play field. And that's when we finally sussed it out and they walked us through it. It's like, sure as shit. Like, you got a multiball, bro. Excellent. Your game's not broken. You're not broken. Keep playing. You're fine. I think the hardest thing, though, is to like people that are new to pinball and don't know pinball. They get very frustrated or they think that something is very wrong. It's like, well, I found a couple extra screws in there or this. I had to adjust this. I had to mess with this. And you try to. It's such a hard thing to try to explain to them this is part of pinball without making them feel that everything is just defective and going to fall apart on them. So that's probably like the toughest thing dealing with that is just trying to be, you know, educate them on pinball, but at the same time not scare them away from pinball. Because you do. You have to adjust stuff on a lot of games. Some games I've got that are perfect, and then some games I've got to pull a few things off, bend a ball guide or do something with it. When you go doing something to people that they're not accustomed to, they buy a car, they expect everything to be perfect, they buy a coffee pot, it works. Pinball is just a little different, or they play 50 plays on it and something goes awry that they need to fix. That's the only difficult part of it is walking that tightrope with people. Yeah. No, that's good to know. I mean, I would assume everybody that's listening to this podcast probably finds the humor in that. Nobody listens to a pinball podcast that probably, well, maybe that's an unfair assumption. I would assume the majority of people that listen to this podcast know how to do those simple things. And if you don't, there's great tutorial videos on YouTube. I'll tell you something, and this is what I found a little surprising too, is there are people, there are two kinds of people basically in pinball when it comes to something. And this isn't just new pinball people that's never owned a game before. This is some people that I know very well. And there are two kinds of people. When something goes wrong, there's people that jump in and they're immediately ready to try to diagnose it, fix it, get you on the phone, even if you're needing help because they just don't have the knowledge. But they'll jump in there and work through stuff and find stuff. And then there's the people that just absolutely refuse to touch anything and that you've got to get a tack out to them because they just will not take that initiative to pick up a screwdriver and do the simplest of tasks. And then I had one guy. I don't want to talk about the game just to give too much away, but there was an older gentleman in his 70s that bought a specific game, and there was an issue with a bracket and a whole mech. well by the time I got that guy back on the phone trying to diagnose what it was he'd done took it out to his workshop drilled out holes bigger did all this stuff got it working like figured out never owned a pinball machine in his life man it was already like yeah I was like whoa slow down like you can sometimes take it a little too far like yeah yeah but I mean you know there's that that balance of people and like I said sometimes it's pinball people that are you know into the hobby quite a bit but when it comes to actually working or diagnosing something with their game They're just at a loss and they don't want to jump in. Yeah, they're just terrified to. Yeah, this would be the wrong hobby in my mind. I think if you own a pinball machine, you either need to learn to fix it or you need to be ready to pay somebody to come fix it for you. Because something's going to break. The ball's going to get stuck. Your ball's going to come out. Something's going to break. And, yeah, there's a reason why I have a little tool bag that sits under my pin. I think most people do in this hobby, have a little tool bag right there. It's just intimidating for people. Most stuff is fairly simple, especially with Sterns. Everything running through node boards and everything is pretty damn simple. Most of their mechs are very simple. There's stuff that once you start to really learn it and you get accustomed to that particular manufacturer, the simplicity of it. It's not like when you had board sets you need to pull off and resolder a transistor or anything on White Stars or anything else or any of the other games. The spikes in all the modern games, it's either you replace the damn board because the board's bad, or something else small that a wire popped off or something you can do. You know, I don't know. I'm not terrified of anything, I guess, because I've done most of it for so long. But it's simpler than people think. A Stern game, you're going to be grabbing a screwdriver before you grab a soldering iron. Anything. Yeah. A lot of the older games, I agree. It was like something's, oh, switch nut's working. Yep, that old wire, because it's 30 plus years or whatever it is, popped off. Like, soldering iron is normally involved. But a newer game, nah, it's going to be a screwdriver. With most Optos and everything else, there's all Molex going to most things. So it's like you just unplug that. Again, screwdriver, you replace that and plug it back in, and you're good to go. So, yeah, it's different. Yeah. Well, cool. Well, I think that's – I don't know. Was there anything else you guys wanted to mention or talk or – no? I mean, we could go on a full soapbox dealing with the difficult customers if you want us to, but we probably have to keep that one private. That's fair. That's fair. Yeah, I do software support for a living. So it's definitely, there's a lot of that similarity of just, did you try clicking that? Did you try restarting that? Did you try this? And then the others where they're like, it's just like, can you just, we can. Well, it's sometimes like, because Travis, I don't know if you, like, for whatever reason, I still can't explain it. Sometimes just reseating a connection, like unplug it, plug it back in, works. And, you know, it's probably like a 30% chance that it's going to work. and to tell people that they think you're ridiculous or, you know, you got to switch this going off somewhere and opto and you say, okay, I need you to bang around on the play field. Take your fist, hit the play field, see what switch. And why am I hitting the, like, they will talk to you like you're just the dumbest person because it's so simple, you know? And I think they expect something more. And so, you know, most things are pretty damn simple. We can diagnose pretty quick. Just bear with me. You just, you just got to remind them what they did with their Nintendos when they were kids. We all blew in the cartridge. basically the equivalent to that at this point well speaking of plugging things in we should probably wrap it up and go ahead and do plugs so Greg feel free plug away whatever you got yeah go for it yeah visit flipping out pinball flip letter in out pinball.com check out me and Zach on straight down the middle we're on YouTube or Facebook yeah we do a little bit on but mainly YouTube. Uh, we got a couple of episodes, uh, that should be coming out soon. I think we're recording some fresh stuff next week. So, uh, that's always exciting and fun. Get a little bit of stuff off my chest and talk about some games even further. Yeah. Even after you guys. Um, and then we might have some other big new things coming up that we can't talk about yet. Awesome. That rubber band collector, right? That's the, the big rubber band ball. Yeah. And for the, uh, you know, this incredibly small demographic that we have, if you live in Southern Indiana, reach out to Zach and, sorry reach out to Greg and work with him on buying or selling a house right yeah definitely yes he's a realtor if you're in the area hey I've sold and bought a lot of pinball people and I give great pinball gifts just ask anybody I gave a guy a hobbit play field one time that bought a house for me I give amazing closing gifts to my pinball friends so not to talk it up too much but you know I'm pretty generous to my pinball friends when they buy a house but I'm assuming you're only licensed in Indiana or is that Yeah, in Indiana. But I've got great referrals in Kentucky, so if you're in Kentucky. There we go. Awesome. Awesome. Well, Greg, thank you so much for being on, man. Yeah, thank you guys for having me, man. It was a great time. I knew you wanted to talk about tournaments, and I'm sorry you couldn't. I know. I'm disappointed now. Travis, plug away, man. Yeah, you guys can find me right here on the Triple Drain Pinball Podcast with Greg Bone and Tom Graff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We've replaced Joel. Congrats, Joel. he was just too mean he's got a good beard he could do it yeah he does has an excellent beard yeah uh and yeah i'm joel i do the flipping out stream every wednesday night from 10 to midnight eastern standard time check us out there otherwise uh we sold some lunch boxes so zazzle.com if you check that out and go to triple drain we actually sold some lunch boxes somebody bought a golf towel i'm just saying uh and what i didn't realize is you can edit the design and so there was a guy that actually took the design and by editing the design, you can change products. So he made like a triple drain Frisbee. He made like, you can do whatever you want. So we have a triple drain Frisbee. I don't have a link to it, but he took one of our designs, edited it, changed the product to a Frisbee. And we definitely need to penetrate the Frisbee golf industry. Yeah, man. Now it's our chance. Flying off the shelves. On tap market. Yeah. So we got some stuff there. Obviously, Silver Ball Swag. Check that out. And then thank you to all the Patreon supporters. We really appreciate you guys. We have some stuff in the works with YouTube. So I know currently all these things are on the pinball network on the YouTube channel. But believe it or not, we have a triple drain YouTube channel. And I think we're going to start doing just some shorts and stuff like that. So if you can't get enough of us, feel free to subscribe to the YouTube channel there for just some additional extra content. But normally Tom gets the last words. But you know what? I think, Greg, I'm going to give them to you. Oh, do not put that pressure on me.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: db4ea4b0-b044-4708-b464-76ef14127771*