# EP 4 - Controversial Pinball Opinions

**Source:** Flip n Out Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2025-07-17  
**Duration:** 69m 51s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://flipnoutpinballpodcast.com/ep-4-controversial-pinball-opinions

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## Analysis

Ken Cromwell and Greg Bone discuss controversial pinball opinions on the Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast, debating whether artwork is essential, defending Ghostbusters as underrated, weighing plastic vs. metal ramps, and exploring the satisfaction of repairing games versus playing them. They also announce that Flippin' Out is taking an interest list for Spooky Pinball's next unrevealed title.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Spooky Pinball is encouraging an interested list for their next unrevealed game — _Ken and Greg announce they are taking interest list signups for Spooky's next title; Evil Dead sold out and people are still clamoring for it_
- [MEDIUM] Ghostbusters is one of the best Stern games ever made; players who dislike it 'just suck at pinball' — _Ken's strong opinion; he notes the game made him a better player due to requiring nudging and manipulation skills_
- [HIGH] Total Nuclear Annihilation garnered significant attention and enthusiasm when shown as a whitewood at pinball shows — _Greg references Scott Denise taking TNA to shows and streaming it online as a whitewood without artwork_
- [MEDIUM] Artwork is not the least important part of a pinball machine, but may be less important than gameplay, sound, and design — _Both hosts agree artwork importance is subjective; Greg played Jersey Jack whitewoods without artwork and still enjoyed them_
- [HIGH] Ken installed a center post kit on Ghostbusters to close the flipper gap when he was less skilled — _Ken's personal confession about using a removable center post kit and eventually removing it_
- [MEDIUM] Plastic ramps offer better visibility of playfield and artwork compared to metal/wire form ramps — _Greg prefers plastic ramps for viewing angle; notes metal ramps are more intrusive_
- [MEDIUM] Hobbit is an example of a long-playing game worth the investment due to theatrical experience and immersion — _Both hosts reference Hobbit as requiring significant time commitment but delivering strong thematic experience_
- [MEDIUM] Working on and restoring pinball machines can be more satisfying than playing them for some enthusiasts — _Greg describes finding therapeutic and zen satisfaction in tinkering, refurbishing, and diagnosing repairs_

### Notable Quotes

> "That game, owning that game, and I've said this before, owning that game and The Walking Dead made me ten times a better pinball player because you had to learn to nudge, to smack."
> — **Ken Cromwell**, approx. 22:30
> _Defends Ghostbusters as mechanically challenging and skill-building despite its flipper gap reputation_

> "I don't think that it's least important, but it might not be as important as I originally thought it was."
> — **Ken Cromwell**, approx. 8:45
> _Nuanced take on artwork importance after considering whitewood gameplay experiences_

> "The buttery smoothness of plastic ramps sometimes it just can't be beat."
> — **Greg Bone**, approx. 35:20
> _Advocates for plastic ramps as underrated alternative to metal/wire forms_

> "Hobbit's a game. You grab a six-pack of beer for your favorite beverage... and you do get ready to go on a journey because you're going to go on a journey."
> — **Ken Cromwell**, approx. 45:10
> _Characterizes long-playing games as immersive experiences requiring commitment_

> "There's just something that is just so, you know, therapeutic and zen about it... I actually enjoy tinkering with them and I love working on them, cleaning them up, honestly, more than what I do playing pinball."
> — **Greg Bone**, approx. 60:00
> _Expresses genuine preference for repair and restoration over gameplay_

> "If you're one that doesn't play much and doesn't really get into rule sets and you just appreciate these games for what they are in the sense that they are beautiful, kinetic pieces of artwork, then artwork is going to be super important for you."
> — **Greg Bone**, approx. 10:30
> _Acknowledges artwork importance varies by player demographic and approach_

> "I don't mind plastic it allows me to see more of the play field more of the artwork um where that metal ramp tends to be a little bit more intrusive on your viewing."
> — **Ken Cromwell**, approx. 36:00
> _Provides practical design perspective on ramp material choice impact_

> "I love working on a game. And honestly, man, there are times that I enjoy tinkering with them and I love working on them, cleaning them up, honestly, more than what I do playing pinball."
> — **Greg Bone**, approx. 59:45
> _Direct statement of preference for repair/restoration work over gameplay_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Spooky Pinball | company | Manufacturer whose next unrevealed game is attracting interest lists through Flippin' Out; Evil Dead sold out successfully |
| Ken Cromwell | person | Co-host of Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast; former Jersey Jack Pinball PR/marketing; passionate about Ghostbusters and pinball game design |
| Greg Bone | person | Co-host of Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast; technical knowledge, appreciates restoration and repair work; prefers plastic ramps and long-form gameplay |
| Ghostbusters | game | Stern Pinball title defended by Ken as one of best Stern games; criticized for flipper gap and early linear code; features art by Zambietti (his debut pinball work) |
| Total Nuclear Annihilation | game | Spooky Pinball game shown as whitewood at shows; garnered attention despite lacking artwork |
| Evil Dead | game | Spooky Pinball title that sold out; still has waiting list of customers wanting to acquire it |
| The Walking Dead | game | Stern Pinball title referenced as having poor artwork on Pro model; mentioned alongside Ghostbusters as skill-building game |
| Hobbit | game | Referenced as quintessential long-playing game with theatrical experience; requires 45+ minute commitment |
| Lord of the Rings | game | Mentioned as another long-playing game in same thematic realm as Hobbit; described as great game |
| Lethal Weapon 3 | game | Referenced as game with non-pristine artwork but beloved by Greg; cited as example of gameplay trumping aesthetics |
| Zambietti | person | Pinball artist; created art for Ghostbusters described as his best art package and inaugural pinball debut |
| Scott Denise | person | Designer/creator of Total Nuclear Annihilation; took whitewood version to pinball shows for streaming |
| Harry Potter | game | Jersey Jack Pinball title; referenced in interest list context; Greg's wife plays it despite general aversion to pinball; example of game where whitewood gameplay was positive |
| Flippin' Out Pinball | company | Ken and Greg's business; distribution/sales partner managing interest lists and pre-orders for upcoming games |
| Zach Minney | person | Owner of Flippin' Out Pinball; mentioned in context of game storage and logistics |
| Baywatch | game | Vintage pinball machine picked up from Chicago with plastic ramps; example of ramp restoration challenges |
| Lost World | game | Game Greg fully tore down and restored; example of learning experience with plastic ramp flame polishing |
| Aerosmith | game | Referenced as game Ken temporarily housed in living room |
| Stargate | game | Game Greg picked up during winter that was rough condition; currently searching for project games to work on |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Artwork importance in pinball game design, Ghostbusters reputation and flipper gap mechanics, Plastic vs. metal/wire form ramps, Long-playing games and player engagement, Repair and restoration satisfaction vs. gameplay enjoyment
- **Secondary:** Interest list strategy for upcoming Spooky Pinball title, Living room pinball machine placement and spouse approval, Game customization and home vs. location setup differences

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.75) — Hosts are enthusiastic and encouraging throughout, celebrating the community debate and diverse opinions. Ken defends Ghostbusters passionately; Greg expresses genuine satisfaction with repair work. Minor frustration expressed about machine maintenance issues, but overall tone is celebratory of pinball passion and nuance.

### Signals

- **[community_signal]** Flippin' Out Pinball leveraging social media to crowdsource and validate controversial pinball opinions from community (confidence: high) — Hosts posted question on social media asking for controversial opinions; curated responses for podcast discussion to engage listeners
- **[sentiment_shift]** Ghostbusters experiencing reputation recovery among dedicated players who recognize its skill-building potential (confidence: medium) — Ken strongly defends Ghostbusters as underrated and credits it with making him significantly better pinball player; first NIB purchase holds special place
- **[design_philosophy]** Debate over ramp material choice reveals designer trade-off between visibility/playability (plastic) vs. durability/traditional feel (metal) (confidence: medium) — Greg notes plastic ramps allow better playfield visibility; both acknowledge designers intentionally choose materials based on game goals
- **[market_signal]** Growing appreciation for pinball game functionality over aesthetics among experienced players (confidence: medium) — Both hosts acknowledge that after playing whitewoods and considering gameplay depth, artwork may rank lower than assumed in game quality hierarchy
- **[market_signal]** Evil Dead demand validation: Spooky Pinball units sold out with continued customer interest exceeding supply (confidence: high) — Ken notes Evil Dead sold very well, people are clamoring for it, nobody is dropping off interest list
- **[community_signal]** Greg Bone demonstrates hands-on technical expertise with game restoration and finds therapeutic satisfaction in repair work equal to or exceeding gameplay enjoyment (confidence: high) — Greg explicitly states he searches for project games needing shop work; describes repair as therapeutic and zen; picked up Stargate as winter project
- **[announcement]** Spooky Pinball taking interest lists for next unrevealed game following Evil Dead success (confidence: high) — Ken and Greg announce Flippin' Out is collecting interest list signups for Spooky's next title with no financial obligation until reveal

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## Transcript

 Hey, what's going on Pinball Land? Welcome to episode four. That is zero four. But the now pinball podcast. My name is Ken Cromwell with me as always. Greg Bone. Greg, what's going on, buddy? Oh, not much, man. Great. Talk some pinball, live pinball, that sort of thing. You know, I just love pinball. I missed you, man. Like, we didn't podcast for about 10 days. It felt like an eternity. I know. I felt a little lost. So much for that, like, that every other week cadence. But we're back, and we're better than before, doing our best to inform and entertain along the way. We are. We are. And, you know, something was brought to my attention here recently. It seems that Spooky is kind of encouraging a potential interested list in their next game. Oh, Spooky Pinball, that is. Yeah. Yes, Spooky Pinball, exactly. And, you know, their last game, we all saw, you know, Evil Dead, you know, sold out. It sold very well. People are kind of clamoring to get on, you know, to still get a hold of that game. And it's very hard because nobody's dropping off of our list, which is always an amazing thing. But so we are currently going to take an interested list on the next Spooky Pinball title. Now, while we cannot speak of that, we cannot speak of what the rumors potentially are, you know, any rumors that you heard of what their potential next game is by all means contact ken cromwell or i uh ken at flip and out pinball.com or greg g-r-e-g at flip and out pinball.com and we would be more than happy to put you on that interested list and as always you know because it's so early on no no non-refundable deposit nothing required at this time until the game is revealed but you get on this list we will fill out a form everything we'll have everything taken care of for you so that your spot is reserved now for that and you'll be in that position in line and then again when the game is revealed that's when your deposit will be due okay nice so and the question i had for you because i wasn't with flipping out at the time just going back to when evil dead was released and i assume you guys had an interest list for evil dead right um slightly yeah you know we kind of really started with a lot of this with potter you know when jack kind of uh spilled the beans a little early and then they kind of gave us the the approval to go ahead and you know take that that list uh that's kind of when this started but you know again um we're good to go here with spooky on this and again you know potter was a little different because we could talk about obviously kind of talk about what that was we knew what the game was coming out this one we do not we really can't talk about it much but again you know if you're out there you're hearing rumors there's some things flying around that you're hearing, contact us. Get on the list. It's not going to hurt anything. And, again, just to summarize, no obligation, no money down. You're not reserving a spot with any type of cash or financial investment. You're just on the interest list when the game is released. You've kind of reserved the spot. So, essentially, you put yourself in a position to have the first right of refusal on a game when it comes out. Exactly right. Yeah, I like it. And you heard it here first on the Flip N Out Pinball Podcast. breaking the news day by day minute by minute week by week i want to take a quick minute and welcome our new patreon members trace nicole austin trent and pete all new patreon members appreciate it if you want to come in and support the show and get a little bit more of an inside approach to what we're doing over here go to patreon.com slash flipping out pinball podcast and we are there so a little over a week ago we posted on our social media question And it was to kind of get an idea. We wanted to know what everybody's controversial pinball opinion was. And it garnered some attention. We got some interesting kind of feedback from that. So we wanted to address some of it here just because I think it'd be fun. Some of it was pretty interesting. Some of it was pretty interesting and some of it was borderline offensive to me personally. I know exactly which one you're talking about too. And I loved putting that on our sheet. you know like ken look at this one this one's for you buddy oh terrible terrible it's like you're ripping my heart out here but hey you know what the great thing with uh pinball is it's very subjective and you know a lot of what i like somebody else doesn't like vice versa it is what it is it is what it is uh how do you want to do this you want to go through this list and we'll just kind of knock them out one by one or yeah yeah take some out let's see what some people got to say here because i i mean i'm excited to kind of address some of these people and tell them that they're just absolutely wrong. All right. All right, here we go. Here's one. One of the controversial pinball opinions is this artwork is the least important part of a pinball machine. Greg, what are your thoughts on artwork is the least important part of a pinball machine? It's a little interesting to me. I mean, cause we always look at these as workers, works of art. I mean, we, we tout it and we talk about it all the time. You know, it's just literally a massive playable piece of art in your room. And, and, you know, obviously art as we have seen just recently gets uh gets a little out of hand with people's opinions and what they feel they should get what they didn't get what they wanted that sort of thing so but i'm kind of right i'm kind of i'm kind of mixed because art art has like walking dead for example walking dead absolutely horrible art on the pro turned me off from the game not the theme not that it's zombies not that it's just whatever it was just because it's so damn ugly so like art has turned me away before but then i also have some games that are like lethal weapon 3 one of my favorite games it's kind of ugly artwork lethal weapon 3 i know that's not the artwork that's tying you in the lethal weapon 3 yeah and i hope it's not the call outs oh my goodness three's like it's my kryptonite lethal weapon 3 yeah there's games that i accept that are are not like not the prettiest games but i still love them yeah but i i don't know what because i I think call-outs are more important. I think, you know, obviously the design, the toys and math, I think all that's more important. Maybe artwork is more important than your animations? Yeah, it caught me by surprise because as soon as I saw it, I'm like, well, that's false. There's no way that that's true. But then when I started thinking about it, I think it's going to mean something different to everybody, obviously. But if you're one that doesn't play much and doesn't really get into rule sets and you just appreciate these games for what they are in the sense that they are beautiful, kinetic pieces of artwork, then artwork is going to be super important for you because it's going to be it's got to look great in your lineup. It's got to look good in your room. You know, when people come in, you want people to look at it and be like, that's amazing. On the flip side of things, you know, for me personally, as much as I love the artwork, I can see where it wouldn't have as much impact on me when I'm buying a game. And it went back to this, just being in a position to play a whitewood. You can have, and a whitewood for somebody that might not know, a whitewood is basically, it's a play field without any artwork. And it just basically has your mechs, your flippers, and inserts. And a lot of times those inserts are not even labeled. Which is all part of the design process. Yeah, correct. I mean, before you're going to populate everything and art it up, you're just going to have something that's conceptually flipping well. and I remember going back in time a little bit when Scott Danesi had come out with Total Nuclear Annihilation, TNA. He had taken that game to several pinball shows and was streaming that game online as a Whitewood and it garnered a lot of attention and a lot of enthusiasm without any artwork at all. And then obviously when it went to production, it had artwork. Being a Jersey Jack pinball playing Whitewoods, you can just have fun on a Whitewood and obviously I would prefer to have artwork, But it made me really think, for me personally, is artwork the least important thing? I don't know that it's least important, but it might not be as important as I originally thought it was. And that is not to demean or belittle anybody that's a pinball artist or is an artist in general. Because trust me, we love what you guys are doing. And it's not about saying what you're doing is insignificant. But I'm thinking to myself, do I need a game to shoot better than the artwork looks? yes do i need a game to sound better than the artwork looks questionable i don't know to your point it is it's kind of crazy because i i think when you first hear that you think okay yes uh it is super important or you go no it's not important at all but if you it's one of those things you just don't put a lot of thought into but if you do you kind of start swaying you know it becomes a very gray area for you regardless of what you feel i would agree like it caught me off guard and i And I loved it because, again, it made me think about it in a way that I never would have thought about it before. It did me too. But I still think art is super important. I don't think it's the least important, but it is an interesting question. The second one that came in is this. Ghostbusters, which is the game by Stern Pinball, is awful. Listen, listen. That is definitely a hill that I will die on. I think it is one of the best Stern games ever made. The problem people have with it is they just suck at pinball. That's all it comes down to when they hate that game. The problem has always been plagued by the flipper gap on that game. Yeah, but you know what? Or the linear code set that was early on before Dwight kind of went in and readjusted. Yes, but you know what? Listen, I'll be 100% honest and I'm truthful about it. That game, owning that game, and I've said this before, owning that game and The Walking Dead made me ten times a better pinball player because you had to learn to nudge, to smack. You had to learn to manipulate a game. And, you know, that was the only way to play both of those. So it really ups your pinball skills when you do own those games and you play them. Now, that being said, if you're only out playing on location and you've never owned one in your home, I can see where you'd be like, okay, I'm not putting dollars in this. Right, right, right. You know, Ghostbusters was my first new in-box experience. First game I ever bought new in-box was Stern Pinball. And it's got a special place in my heart from that aspect. But, I mean, that game just hit great on theme. It just was a full feature-packed game. Oh, it's beautiful. To me, it's Zambietti's best art package ever. I don't know that I disagree with that. And that was really the first time I believe that Zambietti was on the radar in pinball. That was kind of his inaugural debut with pinball art package. And I loved it. Now, in my opinion, that game is good enough for it to be remastered. I would love to see that game re-released on Spike 3. I mean, I don't see – obviously, there's a lot of things in play to make that happen. But I think that would be a banger for Stern if they did that. And you know what? I will say this. A pinball confession here, going back to the old days of Zach Mennie's pinball confessions. But what I did with that flipper gap originally, because I was not a skilled player. Don't even say it, Ken. Don't even get into it. I got the center post kit on it. Yes, I did. I got the center post kit. It was great because it could be removed easily. It didn't go into the play field. It hovered above, like, the slings. But you know what? It was fine, and it was not a big deal. I eventually ended up taking it off. But when I had it and that center post kit was there and look, these games are meant for you to to customize how you see fit so that you get the max enjoyment out of it. And at that time, I did. I don't I don't agree with that now on location. I don't think locations should make things inherently harder or make things inherently easier. But in your home. Yeah. Set them up, man. You want five balls on your game at home. Put five balls on there. You know, make it how that you're going to enjoy that game. because some people don't give a game a chance because there's one particular aspect of it that might be a little too difficult, so then they just steer away from it. 100% agree. 100% agree. You ready for another one? Oh, yeah, always. Keep them coming. All right, you having fun? You having a good time? We're coming at you hot with these quick takes here. Here it is. It is okay to put pinball machines in the living room. Do you agree or disagree? So that's kind of a loaded question. To me, it comes down to a couple of factors. Are you single? Does one of them start with your wife? Yes, it's exactly. How does the spouse feel about that? Oh, my gosh. Dude, you hit it right on the head. I was like, the first thing I thought of is what is your current relationship status? That's so funny. That's the result of it. Well, and so I'll be fully transparent. So, you know, sometimes we will, you know, if there's a local trade or something, Zach can't get here to do something. I will have people drop games off at my house. I'll house a game in my garage or so forth, you know, sometimes. And so I've had two different games that because I wanted to play them, I knew Zach wasn't going to be up this way for a couple weeks or I wasn't going to be down to him. I took, I believe it was a Hobbit, and then I had an Aerosmith in my living room separately, not together at one time. Yeah, because I didn't want them in the garage because it was too freezing cold to be out there playing, but I wanted to play the games. So I did get approval to be able to put those in the living room for a brief moment of time. And I'll have to say, it's amazing. Yeah. You just look over. You're watching a little TV. Right. It's right there. Stand up off the couch. If only you had a bigger bathroom, right? You would have one in there. Oh, listen. I'm not lying, Ken. And I swear to you, if my bedroom was bigger, I would have pins in my bedroom. How would the wife feel about a pinball machine in the bedroom? Right. Oh, she would hate it. She would hate it. She don't even come to the basement. She don't even like to see. She don't even ever know what games I own. She literally has no idea. She will come down and be like, oh, when did you get this? I'm like, eight months ago. Right. Right. I had the same thing. When I had everything downstairs in the basement before I moved everything into the garage and made it a game room, I would probably have had 50 games coming in and out over the course of the summer, and my wife had no idea what was coming in and out of the house. Oh, yeah. Mine does not know it all. Now, I will tell you real quick, my wife is actually hooked on Harry Potter, and she has not played pinball for years because she kind of despises it because it's my entire life. But she does come down and play Potter. That's huge, man. I mean, somebody that's maybe casual accepts appreciating pinball because it's your passion, and now she's downstairs playing the Harry Potter. Yes. But back to the original question, I personally, and I think a lot of pinheads will agree, that pinball in the living room is 100% acceptable, but you just got to get approval. Yeah, I would say if you're that into pinball, there's no bad place to put a pinball machine, honestly. So I don't know that it's taboo. I guess maybe from a, I don't know, from just your normal interior designer approach might not be ideal. But, hey, I've seen people that have themed a corner or a wall around a game, and it looks like it's perfect. Like it's meant to be there. So that's cool. I'm down with it. All right. You ready for another one? Let's go. We have this one. If a game has ramps, Greg, they must be metal and not plastic. Controversial pinball opinion. If a game has ramps, they've got to be metal. They cannot be plastic. So this one's intriguing to me. it probably didn't intrigue you as much because you know we we often fight and say you know i want metal ramps you cheaped out doesn't have metal ramps it's plastic ramps everything else blah blah yeah but you know there's something to be said about plastic ramps to me they're not as cumbersome and then you know uh view restrictive as what sometimes i feel like wire forms can be um and man like plastic the buttery smoothness of plastic ramps sometimes it just can't be beat so i mean i think it's i just think it's like what these designers do you know the same exact designers will use plastic ramps sometimes they'll use wire forms um i think it just comes down to the game and what they're trying to achieve and what they're trying to do with it yeah i agree with you 100 and for me it was more of a viewing angle i don't mind plastic it allows me to see more of the play field more of the artwork um where that metal ramp tends to be a little bit more intrusive on your viewing and you're absolutely right i'll probably i guess a properly constructed ramp is going to play well anyways but it seems like there's less drag on a plastic ramp to me than there is on on metal and uh you know i don't know i don't have a scientific study to back that up but uh yeah i would also i would agree with you that uh plastic can uh take the place in metal the only thing that bothers me about plastic and you know we've seen a lot of manufacturers put you know decal or something underneath is i hate you know them getting worn and rubbed and you know you can take and you can flame polish a ramp and so forth but it's still like that the one thing that i prefer a metal ramp like actual ramp for is i i hate ball tracks and the scuffing of plastic and that hazing of a plastic ramp after you know hundreds of plays Oh man I remember years ago I picked up a Baywatch out of the city out of Chicago. And, uh, I, if I remember correctly, they said that they cleaned the ramps and I looked at the ramps and they were all scratched up. And I think they cleaned the ramps with steel wool. And I was like, Oh man, not, not on plastic. That was maybe step one of a process but you got you got to do something else with that so it had a nice cloud effect to it the problem with those ramps is some of them i mean you take an older game like uh you know the very first one i ever tried this on was was my lost world because you know i did a full tear down of it and everything and again it pissed me off i just i can't stand the the hazy ramps but those ramps are hard to find like you they're they're irreplaceable uh for the most part i mean you can find old other worn ones and everything but i was terrified flame polishing those and some of those segas are just a thin plastic anyways um but i mean a flame polishing they turned out great but i mean you still gotta be super careful and most you know most people on pinball are not going to attempt that you know on a game yeah right you don't want the salvador dolly mod on your uh plastic ramp for sure it's not good all right here's another one greg are you ready for this one here's another one a long plane game is actually okay it seems pretty innocent a long playing game is actually okay i don't think that's very controversial see what what sucks ken is like i went into a lot of these thinking they were going to be real quick clear cut answers on some of these things but my dude it's just so much to it because i don't mind a long playing game like uh you know if you're tearing up harry potter harry potter can be a little bit of a long playing game but it also kick you in the ass um but hobbit hobbit i think hands down no one is ever going to say hobbit is a quick game um but i love the journey i love being on that game for 45 minutes um or so like i love it but the problem becomes when you're done on that journey you don't want to touch that game for a month yeah yeah that's true that's fair and it's funny that you referenced hobbit because when this question came in it's the first game that came into mind and then this today before we started recording, I was just kind of going over some of the show notes. Again, it came in the mind. And what came into mind was exactly what you said. Hobbit's a game. You grab a six-pack of beer for your favorite beverage, if it's non-alcoholic or whatever, and you do get ready to go on a journey because you're going to go on a journey. That's not the game where you're like, I got to pick up the kids from school in about 15 minutes. I'm going to put on a quick game of Hobbit. There's no such term as a quick game of Hobbit, unless you're playing it blindfolded, maybe. but for you know that being said the theatrical experience and the immersion that you get from the game it's worth it and that's one of those games where i want some stop and go and it does that well holds the ball it presents something to me on the lcd screen which gets me excited or in in the mood for the next mode that's coming up and yeah and for that i appreciate it but and again just kind of like if you watch a good movie you don't necessarily want to like watch it again yeah the same day but on the opposite spectrum there's games out there that are still long playing you don't get that great cinematic experience you don't get that it's just so much like they're not super brutal they don't drain they're long playing and you start to very quickly get to a point to where it's rinse and repeat and those i do have problem with you know and a lot of people don't achieve that you know it it's a decently skilled player for some of these games to get to that point but there are games out there that are like that no those long players i i don't have as much grace for those i'll kind of walk away from and not care about so you know i think it very much depends on what long playing game you're playing you know uh lord of the rings can be a little long playing too great you know yeah i 100 agree great game great game interesting that they're both kind of in the same realm there hobbit and lord of the rings but yeah lord of the rings another great game and a long playing game is going to depend on your collection too because if if you know you don't want something like that you don't want a long playing game no matter how great it is uh in a small collection you know if you've just got one pin you don't want that if you've got three pins you probably don't want that but if you've got five seven games plus you can have a long player in there because you've got other things to play in between you know until you feel like okay i can go on the hobbit journey again that's kind of where i was on the opposite side it's like do i want a brutal game like no i don't want a great game that's going to upset me and I can't stay alive for longer than a minute and a half. But if I had a bigger collection, I would want to have that in there. And you said it. I didn't even think about the flip side because originally I'm thinking, you know what, if I had one game, I probably want it to be a longer playing game so that I can get through more of the game. But maybe not. Maybe not. You're making me scratch my head on that one. All right. Here's another one. It's more fun to fix them than to play them. It's more fun to fix pinball machines than to play pinball machines. Now I'm really curious to see where you come from on this because I know at Flip and out pinball with customer support part of that is is you kind of getting into these games and and helping uh in a technical issue if need be and i'm curious if you enjoy that aspect of the repair more than you do actually playing so and this is absolute truth and complete honesty i i i think i actually i'm glad you're not lying about this so and you're a company man here so So be careful. Listen. You love all the tech support calls, the best part of your day. Yeah. Do you not like working on your game? Because you suck if you don't. What's your problem, man? That's right. So, you know, the tech support stuff is a little different because most, you know, everything is over the phone, walking somebody through their game. There's great satisfaction in someone getting their game working and being able to play it and all that stuff. But coming from, you know, pure hobbyist standpoint, and not everybody is to this point. there's probably the majority of pinball people today or not to this point but i actually encourage you to do it because you will find great satisfaction in it i actually i'm actually searching now for one i even told zach i was like man you come across anything and you know needs a good shop job needs a little bit of work ah that's a nice nice project let me know because i picked up over the winter i picked up a stargate and it was pretty rough man and i had out in the garage and I had a little Mr. Buddy propane heater out there on me. I had a jacket on. And, you know, I was out there giving her hell during the winter. But I love working on a game. And honestly, man, there are times that I enjoy tinkering with them and I love working on them, cleaning them up, honestly, more than what I do playing pinball. And that's not a lie. Like, there's just something that is just so, you know, therapeutic and zen about it You learn a lot. You're making something better than what it was when you got it. There's so much to it that I just – See, that's almost different. It's almost – are you getting that satisfaction from refurbishing and restoring, or are you getting that satisfaction from diagnosing an issue and actually fixing and repairing a game? Because I think those are two completely different things. I mean, not completely different, but how I would approach answering this question would depend on the level of repair. Because honestly, you said it perfectly. There's a level of satisfaction that comes along with a successful repair because you build confidence as an owner. You get a little bit more familiar with the game. You pass that knowledge on to yourself on the next game, and it kind of opens up more opportunity for you when you're looking to buy or sell or trade. On the flip side of things, I want to hit the start button, and I want the game to work. I don't want a credit dot where I'm spending, you know, I want to go downstairs and play for an hour, but now I'm 45 minutes into figuring out what's happening in a switch made. It drives me insane. I don't like the repair side of things as much as it sounds like. I mean, great point because, yes, I do fall into that because it's like what you said. And I do get frustrated with that. If I go down and I'm like, oh, son of a bitch, I was going to play this, and now I've got to lift this and fix a target. But those are annoying things. That to me is not really working on them when you've got to make an adjustment or fix a switch. like i mean it's working on them but i don't i don't know if i look at it as working on them because it's just annoying it's it's maintenance it's maintenance yeah it's just that's the way i look at it as maintenance and those are those are okay like you're just like god i'm like you like i just want to play this damn game come on but if if yeah yeah i'm expecting to tear into something or you know same thing with mods i think you know modding something is the same way you know modding your game or putting accessory or something on there um i think it can be that that same thing You know, if it's something you feel like you have to do, it's a pain in the ass. You know, you blocked out some time. Like you said, you grab a beer, grab a glass of, you know, iced tea or something, man, lemonade. Go all in. It's enjoyable. It's all about the mindset. And I'm putting myself in somebody's shoes that enjoys working on them more than they like playing these games. I would assume you're not going down into your game room getting ready to play whatever game it is. and you turn it on and nothing's working and you're like, yes, I get to fix this game and I don't have to play it tonight. Like there's no way that happens. So I think you've got to put it into context. Like there's one thing to get satisfaction and enjoy working on these games, but there's no way somebody's having more fun working on them than actually hitting the start button and playing a game of pinball. Like I can't put myself in that mindset. I love it. I can't. I don't get it. Like you said, one-off little things that I've got to tinker with or fix something. a bulb fell out or something stupid or I got to replace a switch on a game. That's annoying. I don't know. It can be okay, but it is annoying. Yeah, I won't lie. It's like, oh, honey, how did your night go? Well, you know, I thought I was going to have to play some pinball, but thankfully it was broken. Yes. And I got to sit down and just fix it for three hours. Or, you know, people are coming over to play and, you know, you've got a small issue with a game. It's like, fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's always the worst time. But actually working on them, dude, going all in. I love it. I love it. I think anyone that's fairly new to pinball or you haven't had to adjust or mess with much, man, dive in there. That is one thing I can say. Annoying or not to you, dive in there, man. They are not as complicated as they seem for the most part. Some things diagnosing and helping people with the phone is a little rough because of laying eyes on it. Even FaceTiming or doing things can be a little rough. But dive in there. Do not be afraid to get in there. Take a look at stuff. Observe. It looks overwhelming, but it's not. So that is one thing that I, whether it's fun to you or not, I always encourage getting in there because you just learn so much and you become comfortable with your machine and you'll honestly respect that machine a lot better if you've turned a screwdriver a couple of times on it. You definitely get to know your machine in and out. And, you know, and thankfully, modern day pinball really has put itself in a position for a lot easier service and maintenance than it was kind of back in the day. So for somebody that's getting somebody that's considering getting their first game, don't let this conversation deter you, because I'd have the same conversation about a car in my car isn't necessarily going to be breaking down all the time. But I would certainly rather drive it than than fix it. But all right. You ready for another one? Yes, sir. Yeah. And this is the one that upset me. And I took personal and I debated just deleting it off the whole Facebook page. And that is Twilight Zone is not a great game. The pinball machine Twilight Zone is not a great game. I want to repeat it one more time. Twilight Zone, the pinball machine, is not a great game. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone because I don't know how anybody could say that Twilight Zone is not a great game. I mean, Twilight Zone was my original Grail game. When I was just getting into pinball, my first game was an Earthshaker 1989 System 11 game. Great. And then my first DMD pin was Judge Dredd, and I was like, this is amazing. But Twilight Zone was always like the unobtainium kind of game that I thought I would never own. And then I ended up owning it three times. And honestly, Greg, I would own it again if the right situation presented itself. You don't think it's a little rinse and repeat, hit the ramp, start a multiball? No. I mean, for its time, it definitely had a deeper rule set, and it had a lot more modes, in my opinion. And with it being a wide-body game, it has the perfect amount of stop-and-go that I like. It creates moments. But from a theme perspective, it hit on everything that I could possibly ask for. And then nowadays, with you having the ability, like if you I don't know, we might have talked about this before, but you put a pin soundboard in that game and it just makes so many changes. You tastefully mod it. You don't throw all the garbage in it that you see in a lot of these games. I know there's a reason why that game is heavily rumored to be remade. and that's because it's a good game. Nobody's thinking about remaking a game that most people don't think is a good game. So if somebody doesn't think it's a good game, I respect your opinion, but you're a terrible person and I would appreciate you never introducing yourself. I don't think it's a bad game. There's just no way. I respect it. It's never been like my go-to pin, but I respect it because I always thought it was a beautiful game and I always enjoyed the amount of shots that it has into it. It is, like you said, for that era of pinball, It was a little bit deeper rule set and the amount of shots that they packed into that game were just astronomical to me. You know, behind the flipper stuff, everything, you know, gumball machine, the magnets. It was a game that you just hadn't really seen before. So in that aspect, I super appreciate it. Just I like modes. I like, you know, I like that journey. I like, you know, even as lame as what some of it is. Like I like the progression in that aspect. uh even something like freaking you know go into demolition man or something you know you got some modes in there as weak as what it kind of is um i enjoy that a little bit better than than what twilight zone but but i mean it's it's it is it's not a bad game it's just not my look i cup of tea i'm not saying it's the best game of all time because obviously i'm biased for it all right great it might be my favorite game of all time i just all things considered it might be my favorite game of all time do i think it's the best shooting game no do i think it has the best artwork no do i think it has the best audio package no do i think it has the best light show no my favorite game of all time uh from that era i mean i've got my favorite modern day era games and from all different manufacturers and we can reserve that conversation for another time but uh but anyways uh whoever posted that on facebook no i i just appreciate you admitting that you're in the minority i don't think i'm in the mind there's no way i'm in the minority but who would make it again if it would you remake a game that a minority of people appreciate as like one of the better sought after pins and you have to also consider the fact that you know there were so many of those games that were made and and it's still being considered for remake that in my eyes it's like hall of fame status again pat lawler designer a lot of respect for mr lawler um personal pat fans so all right we can agree to disagree on that i know it sounds like you're not as not as enthusiastic uh as i am i love seeing you get a little worked up and get a little hot i just it's yeah it just came in a little bit hot it'd be like telling me that baywatch is a terrible game i will i will fight people with you we will both take up arms and whoop some ass over baywatch because baywatch is fantastic all right i got another one for you if you're ready to move on i know you are all right so we agree twilight zone is great um and here's the next one LCD screens made pinball more expensive because of content and licensing, but not more enjoyable. LCD screens made pinball more expensive because of content and licensing, but not more enjoyable. Controversial pinball opinion. Do you agree or disagree? Because that first LCD pin came out with Wizard of Oz. Yes. You know, 2011, 2012. That was the first one. So I think maybe early on it did. But I mean, I think that the rarity, uh, uh, you know, I, I would be curious, I'd say it's minimal. I'd say it's a hundred dollars or less of what probably to create, you know, uh, uh, uh, dot matrix display is versus an LCD screen. Just because LCD screens and TVs and everything are so prevalent and mass produced all over now that I, you're, you're creating a, probably a one-off product in, in a dot matrix. You know what I'm saying? so yeah i'd say it's probably not but but the other thing you have to consider though right is and maybe it doesn't jump out in front of you but just creating a ui like a user interface like graphics all all those things that transitions i think it's simpler on the dmd to do yes and you don't have to think of as much real estate but on you know on a modern day pin with an lcd screen you do have those assets like movie clips that you can throw on there but there's still a lot animations and animations is super expensive i think when you factor everything in right artwork audio all that kind of stuff i think animations has got to be up there with probably the most expensive time-consuming thing that you could well and all that has to go into the lc i doubt they needed any kind of licensing maybe just approval of what they were putting out for for any dmd stuff you know what i'm saying i mean you got the ecto-1 or something on there that looks like Ecto one or a freaking dinosaur on Jurassic Park? What could it possibly take your planetary 2600 on Yeah So you probably save some money in licensing back then Like you said you didn have animators You didn have to worry about the graphics You didn have to worry about any of that stuff going on So I'm sure that it obviously added to the BOM. I don't know, man. I think it was just the next evolution on it. I think it was worth the cost. I won't say that it made pinball more fun, but it made it maybe more enjoyable. okay well isn't that kind of the same thing because i mean i think you still have a lot of fun on playing the game but the enjoyability of it because now you've got movie assets or you got animations you're watching stuff and there's cool things happening that's enjoyable i think there is a small difference i just i'm citing the original post because i just to be clear lcd screens made pinball more expensive because of content licensing but not more enjoyable i think it made it more enjoyable but i do think it probably added to the cost i i would agree i think that it made it a little bit more expensive from a bill of materials standpoint as you already kind of pointed out but i i think also i mean i would much rather there's a certain amount of charm that goes into seeing something on a dmd nowadays because we're used to seeing everything visually on these lcd screens so when you go back it does look antiquated but again it's it's a retro thing you get a nostalgia almost now, something from the 90s. But Ken, point in hand, let's go back to The Hobbit that we already talked about. The Hobbit, because of the way that all of that was integrated, is phenomenal. And that game would be nowhere near as good as what it is fun or enjoyable if it did not have that LCD screen. Great example. Great example. And think of this. Just for the sake of conversation, if you took a DMD game, because we were just talking about Ghostbusters, and you brought it into the Spike 3 era with LCD screens. Metallica. How would that impact? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Great. Perfect example. Metallica remastered with the LCD screen. That's huge. More enjoyable. I would assume more enjoyable. Thank you so much for saying that because that's the perfect example for that. I don't see how anybody who's a fan of Pinball or Metallica would not be able to say that that LCD screen on the same title essentially made the game more enjoyable. So I would disagree that these games are not more enjoyable, but I do agree that LCDs might have made the build materials or the overall design a little bit more expensive. All right, Greg. Agree or disagree on this controversial pinball opinion, and that is pinball peaked in the 1990s. Controversial pinball opinion is pinball peaked in the 1990s. Dude, I don't know if it peaked, but I think it's more of a nostalgia thing. and I love a lot of the titles of the 90s. But, dude, everybody that knows me has heard me talk before. I am a sucker for Data East and Sega. Oh, yeah. All right. Yep. You know, I won't say it peaked because, I mean, we've got great titles, and, I mean, you know, these games shoot amazing, and the code is so much deeper. but yeah and there's something to be said about those 90s uh those 90s games yeah it's kind of an open-ended question or open-ended statement it really depends on how you interpret it because i can see pinball peaking like from a production of unit standpoint sure in the 80s 90s yeah there were you know arcades were strong and thriving and and they are to a certain extent these days too there's a resurgence from that standpoint but uh when you look at the number of games that were coming out of like bally williams uh i i don't even know that we're we're close to that yet no um but you know quantity doesn't always mean quality so to speak so from the perspective of there are more pinball companies manufacturing games now than there were back in the 80s and 90s so from the number of manufacturers you know this genre has peaked but from the number of games that are coming out totally maybe not i i would argue that probably pinball has peaked for the home owner right now and that is because a lot of these games are are being created with the homeowner in mind and that is with you know better better rule sets and serviceability things like that so depending on how you look at it i would say from my standpoint like pinball is peaking right now and the modern day era to me offers the fullest package of pinball and i can get these games in my house i don't have to get a game that's all beat up from a bar after it's like 20 years old i can get a brand new game in a box have in my basement so well i don't know what your angle is but i would say pinball is peaking and that might be a good a segment or something for us to sit down and discuss it is because i actually i don't disagree now that you brought it up in the way that you framed that uh because i i think that kind of the question on all of our mind i don't think it's peaked from popularity i think that we're still growing um you know with flipping out i i can't comment on the percentage because we would have to look at numbers more but over the last two years the amount of people that we have had that are completely new to pinball or that are coming back into pinball because they played it when they were a kid um you know it's just astronomical right now like like we've never seen before so i think popularity of pinball has not necessarily peaked yet i think we're still on that that drive and that that that upturn that upward swing but but it would be nice to sit down and discuss where does pinball go from here you know because we wanted online connectivity we wanted you know uh saved progress we wanted LCD screens, all these small things that we wanted, but where do we go to with a modern pinball machine? You know, like Pinball 2000 tried to revolutionize pinball to stay, you know, relevant. That would be a nice thing for us to discuss and maybe do a show about if we could think of something. And maybe that's a question for our listeners out there. Maybe that's something we present on Facebook and stuff. Where does pinball go from here? What is the next evolutionary step? Yeah. Yeah. Pinball was kneecapped after Pinball 2000. And what if Pinball 2000 had thrived? Would the evolution of pinball be further now than if it had not stopped? That's an interesting question. But you also have to be very respectful of because people don't like strong change. So you kind of have to keep the same aesthetics and the same thing that people like in their lineup. Yeah, see, that's a really good point. And that's where I'm kind of at. I mean, you're kind of within the restrictions of this box. And, yeah, can some things change? Yeah. But, you know, at the end of the day, it's still a pinball machine. Yes. How do you modernize it? I personally, I am a little bit particular when it comes to, like, I like everything to line up in a row. I like everything to look almost uniform. Yeah. But I'm not opposed to a design change. And that's simply because I wouldn't mind seeing something that's a little bit easier to move around, personally, just as I get a little bit older. I don't like moving games as much anymore. So, you know, and a lot of the weight in that game, it comes in the cabinet and things like that. So I wouldn't mind seeing something. Maybe it's a little easier. But I wouldn't mind even seeing, you know, maybe even a bigger LCD that is bigger than the backbox that folds down. Oh, I've got an idea about that that me and Zach have already discussed. So, yeah, let's save that. Let's come back to that. Put a pin in it. We're coming back to that on another episode because that warrants a longer discussion. Fair enough. Fair enough. So taking all these into consideration, and I want to, you know, joking aside, thanks, everybody, for even submitting your feedback on this, because it was something that we just kind of threw up on Facebook to see where it went and create a lot of good content. And if you want to keep interacting with the show, please, you know, jump on Facebook, jump on Instagram, flipping out pinball podcast. We're posting there and you can engage with the show. And then again, hit us up on Patreon if you want to have a little bit more inside baseball, the community and in our topics. But is there anything that you have that's on your mind? Because I noticed you didn't post anything there, and I didn't post anything there. I assumed we would hold our controversial pinball opinion for the show. And I'd love to see what you have in mind if you want to be controversial. Because you're pretty even-keeled. But I've also known that not to poke the bear with a Greg bone because he gets a little feisty, and he'll be coming at you. And before you know it, he already bit you in the leg. So what do you got? Man, I don't know. I'd have to think on it a little bit. I wasn't prepared for that. All right. I got one for you. Oh, yeah. I want to hear it. Yeah, let's hear it. All right. Actually, I got two. I got two. Uh-oh. Kids have been holding these in. I feel like this wasn't for this episode. This is something you've been dwelling on for a long time. This is something that I think I had a conversation with somebody a while back ago, and they made fun of me. And I don't mind being made fun of because it is what it is. All right. Hear me out. I would prefer that a ball interact with a target instead of a bash toy directly. I don't care for bash toys. And I don't. Now, hear me out on this. And this is why. And I'm going to get I'm going to get ruined for this. When I'm making a shot, I like to be able to calculate with a certain level of certainty how that ball is going to react to the target and where I think it's going to go after hitting the target. And what ends up happening with a bash toy, because bash toys, for the most part, aren't parallel or even or there's there's different ridge and anomalies. And when you hit the bash toy, there's uncertainty coming back. So it's almost like a physical magnet in the sense that you don't know where the ball is going to go now. Now, sometimes that's enjoyable, but sometimes I just don't like it. And it just kind of cheapens the experience for me. I would rather see a cool toy on top of like a target where the ball hits the target and the toy does something, maybe reacts as if it got bashed, but I'm getting a predictable rebound off of that target. I know I'm just saying it because it's controversial, but my controversial pinball opinion is I don't care. I don't care for bash toys. Ken, do you make love to your wife with your socks on? That's what that sounds like. That's what that sounds like. Is that what it seems like? I don't know. I don't even know how to take that one. I think a freaking stand-up target is going to be just as unpredictable as a bash toy. At least the bash toy looks cool to him. How is a stand-up target unpredictable? Because you still don't know. It's so, like, the variable of angle and speed and power behind it, I mean, can greatly affect where that ball is going. Like, that's what the magic of pinball is. Like, I mean, certain targets you can, but man, like, I look at. I think I can predict the rebound off of a stand-up or a drop target with better certainty, in my opinion, than just like a hanging, dangling bash toy. That's just the way I look at it. Oh, man, I don't know. And I like bash toys. Like, the barn doors on Walking Dead are great. Like, the well walker is dumb as shit looking. But, I mean, that's still fun to hit. a slime okay i i would i would agree with that i i didn't like slimer as much that was the one thing in ghostbusters where i wasn't really yeah i do like to create in uh in scared stiff because again that's almost like a solid target that you're hitting you are bashing it but in in that sense then a drop target or a stand-up target would be a bash toy and i don't think that that's intended to be called a bash toy but something that's flat and offers predictable uh rebound i'm in with with that sort of bash but a random bash toy i i don't think yeah i mean i see where Where you're coming from. Just because I don't like an unfair – I mean, pinball is unpredictable. But I don't like anything that creates just an unfair – like super out of your control that you need to hit it and there's going to be no control. You know, it's like some games, Aerosmith, Willy Wonka, some things where the ball is just inevitably going to come out of the pops. You know, one out of every three times it's up there in an uncontrolled manner that wants to drain. There are some bash boys. I'll tell you what, Greg. I'll tell you what. I don't even care if there are pops in a game. I could do without pop-uppers. Get the Jets out of the game. I don't care. Oh, I could do without them. Ball gets stuck up in there, rattles around for a couple minutes. I don't need it. Put something else there that's going to do more than hitting the Jets. And I know that from a purist standpoint, that's probably disappointing to hear. I don't think we need them anymore. You could take the pops right out of a game. Don't even care. Yeah, I don't think we need them. I think it's just a nostalgic sound and feeling up there of designs that are, you know, that we were just kind of forced into something cool like that. Pops are fine, but I actually agree with you. Like, they're not needed in modern pinball. That would be a controversial pinball opinion. Yeah. Pop pumpers are not needed in every game. And then finally, another one is, in almost every case, I would prefer a color playfield package versus black and white. Oh, 100%. I agree. That would be my other controversial pinball opinion. Like I can appreciate some of the black and white approaches to like a game or two. But you know what? I hope there's not a trend where we're seeing a bunch of black and white games. Munsters was fine. Elvira was really pretty. Yeah, I thought so. But again, not my cup of tea. I wouldn't have got that. I wouldn't have got Godzilla personally. Again, it's like what you started off the show with. Pinball is very subjective. Art is very subjective. Everything about it is subjective. But yeah, I agree with you on that. My cup of tea would be the full color package. I don't want to start seeing all this black and white packages coming out. It screws up my lineup. Elvira is a good example. I would much rather have the color package in Elvira than that blood. Yeah, I would too. But blood red is pretty. It's probably one of the better done black and white. I kind of like it, but I still would have went with the color over it. Yep. All right. Well, that's my – I've thrown out my controversy. I do have one. I do have one slightly. And I think somebody commented this to an extent on our page. But it is something that I, like, you know, whether this is what they were meaning or not, I kind of agree with it. Is, you know, don't, don't, people in this, this hobby tend to be very negative towards people who have large collections or who can buy whatever game they want. I'm not too fond of hearing that. Like, you know, a lot of people work very hard for their money. A lot of people put themselves in a position to be able to buy their pinball machines. It's not that they just fell into like, hey, I'm going to mortgage an entire house and buy games. Leave people the fuck alone. If they want to have a 30 pinball collection, let them have it. If they want to trade a game every two months for a new game, let them do it. It's a hobby. It's fun. Some people go buy $50,000 boats. Some people are buying sports cars. Some people are buying, you know, side-by-sides that are $20,000, $25,000 that they're tearing up in the woods. Some people choose to go buy $7,000 to $15,000 pinball machines. Let them do it and leave them alone. We are all in this hobby together. Don't get mad if you can't buy one. Like, it's just going to happen. It just sucks. Like, I was there. You know, it took me forever to start building up my collection and stuff. And a lot of it was just, you know, buying games, you know, buying used games, you know, working on them, cleaning them up, touching stuff up, you know, getting them working to sell and to be able to get, you know, a better machine trade up that sort of thing. But just don't, I think it's just so tacky and just so uncalled for to talk about someone else's ability to own a particular number of games or whatever game they choose to buy. Yeah. And I think that's, I think that's fair. there are a lot of different entry positions into this hobby, which is kind of cool. You can get in for $550 maybe on an EM or a fixer-upper, or you can go in and you can spend $20,000 on a restored game. So it's whatever you want to put into it. But, yeah, I agree. Again, we're in this hobby together. So many people want to tear it down now. You know what? You don't even need to be together in everything. If you feel that you're just not on the same page as somebody that has 50 games in their basement, that's okay. Yes. But you probably don't need to be so miserable about it. Yeah, exactly. Like still go throw a few dollars, enjoy pinball. Go to your local arcade or find somebody. And like I said, if you can only get an EM, dude, nobody's mad at you. It's still pinball. Like I would take an EM. Like pinball to me is pinball. I kind of get made fun of and I get ridiculed because I love almost everything. I really do. There's maybe one to two games that I would just refuse to own and just miserable playing. but everything else i just love pinball and so many of these people in this hobby are just so freaking nasty about it they're nasty to other people they're just like oh i wish the market would crash i wish this would happen but uh you know these manufacturers are screwing us everybody is terrible you know this sucks well then what the fuck are you doing in the hobby please tell me what you doing in this hobby then if you think everybody out to get you that everything is wrong that everybody screwing up like why are you here fight the good fight it just makes me so mad because i still love pinball that much ken you know this like we work in pinball it's our day-to-day and our jobs don't stop we work after hours we're pulling some weekends and we're doing stuff but guess what like i said i'm still out shopping a pinball machine in my garage in the freezing cold with a little propane heater on in your spare time i'm playing pinball when i'm not like i love this hobby i am i happy with some of the things happening no but i'm not looking for its demise and i'm not attacking people because they got more games than me or they can buy this or they can buy that like i would have liked the potter ce guess what it was out of my budget i bought an arcade and i'm fucking ecstatic about it Sure. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. No, it's good. It's good. I I love how you kind of laid that out there, man. And listen, it's hard for me to really disagree with a lot of what you just said. And, you know, I think thankfully, a lot of that kind of rhetoric comes from a vocal minority that just seems larger than it is because a lot of those people are repetitive with their discouragement. but you know i always say if you can without being taken advantage of obviously you want to be looking for concepts and and not trying to point out failures all the time because agree i can tell you this from from the manufacturer standpoint you know i don't know of anybody that's in the business that doesn't have a uh a true love and passion for pinball and nobody's people are trying to make games to make you happy and there's nothing that makes them happier knowing that they put a smile on your face with the games and then from a collector standpoint yeah you're right man i mean if i'm working hard my whole life and i'm in a position now where and i'm not saying me personally because i'm working hard but i'm not yet in a position where i can have 50 games and and five nice cars and three houses but i'm certainly not mad at the people that that busted their ass to get there agreed and uh you know and a lot of these guys that that are a little bit more successful are not necessarily flaunting anything either it's just they they take a little bit of unfair blowback because there's that disconnect. It's like if I don't have what you have, and I don't even know if that's fair. There's nothing wrong with people that can buy what they want. They spend their money how they want to spend their money. You as an outsider should never be the judge of how someone spends their own money. If they're not affecting your life or they're not intruding upon your being, then let them do whatever they want with their money. Leave them alone. It's their choice. That money's going back into the industry, which helps support the industry as a whole, which allows more pinball to be made. Well, that's the thing. It's like some of these people out here rooting for it and stuff. I mean, man, like, you know, you could easily, like, when you're, I mean, and they're not saying they're rooting for the failure. Like, saying, oh, I wish this company would fail. But the things that they're saying and the things that they're doing and the things they're posting and talking about are very much that. It's not, you know, it's not necessarily super underlying. So you do, like, exactly to your point, what you just said, like, if you love the hobby, you want it to thrive. So some things we might need to take in stride a little bit. You know, some things we don't. We can complain about, but we don't want to put things into jeopardy, or at least to me, to where the pinball doesn't exist anymore because it's what we all started and it's what we all love, man. You know, we were talking earlier about fixing games and how some people enjoy fixing them more than playing them. and you were just talking about how even in your spare time when you're not doing work, you're in the garage, you're fixing games. I wanted to introduce a segment that's along the lines of Greg's Tech Tips. So we'll have to get some bumper music and some voiceover work on that. Well, I can do it better for you. It's Greg's Tech Tips. That was great. I love it. Yeah, so you know what? Like a segment that we kind of, that Ken and I talked about that we'd really like to roll in for you guys that may or may not be helpful, but I think it will be helpful to most of you people out there who own a machine. I kind of want to give you tech tips. When new games come out, if there's a particular issue that's kind of plaguing that game that I see pop up or I hear from the manufacturer that's kind of popping up on those games, I want to try to bring that to you guys. In this segment today, I want to bring you the very most basic that is going to help you across almost any manufacturer of a modern game, whether, you know, it be Stern, whether it be JJP, be Spooky, Barrels of Fun, anything like it's going to help you. And that number one tip, as simple as what it is and as crazy as what it sounds, is to just reseat those connections. And what I mean by that is, let's just say that you're having a problem with your trough, your octoboards and your trough on a game. Now, this does not pertain to Spooky because I think that they still use rollover switches. But, you know, anything that's an opto-based or just a board-based, you know, even a coil I've seen happen before. You know, make sure your game is powered off and just unplug and replug those connections back in. And back to that opto-board and that trough, if you've got, you know, a game that's spitting out a few balls, It could be a bad opto board, but probably if I had to guess, 25% to maybe 40% of the time, if not more, it's just a connection issue. And when I say that, I'm not talking about like, oh, hey, Greg, I checked the plug and the plug felt tight in there and it was on there. No, it's like unplugging your TV and plugging your TV back in. I cannot explain to you what fixes it, what it does, but interrupting that connection solves a lot of problems. It creates a new handshake. Yes. And then you're up and running. Exactly. It's crazy. So if you're experiencing anything like that, even on your CPU and stuff, reseat those connections. You know, you've got a coil that's messing up or an opto that's not registering. Number one thing to do for that opto or that switch, unplug it, plug it back in. Again, do it with the game off, and most of the time that's going to solve your problem. I'm not saying that, you know, hey, there's not bad switches, there's not bad optos, there's not bad boards, not any of that stuff. But a lot of time, like Ken said, reintroducing that handshake will oftentimes solve your problem, and it is the first thing that you want to try before you're spending money or, you know, diving in and pulling parts out to replace something. So, and just to clarify, you said make sure your game is powered off. Does it have to be unplugged also or just turning the power off? No, usually power off because you've eliminated that power just because of your power supply and everything there and your power distribution board and stuff on games. So typically I won't unplug it, but definitely make sure your game is off. You never want to go messing with bulbs. You never want to go prodding around in there with your game turned on because then you take a giant risk of shorting something else out, bumping something. and frying a board for real. That's great advice, Greg. I love it. Yes, yes. Hey, and just for reference, one quick thing on that. So literally, I went to a customer's house, a very good customer of ours, and I won't mention the game, I won't mention anything else, but there was a thing of coils that were dead in a particular area that wasn't doing good. Guess what solved it? Re-seating the connections to those. Yep, to the main boards that those coils fed into, reseating those connections solved his problem huge yeah it's so simple it seems to be true you know what greg i might enjoy fixing them more than playing them if i just need to receive the connectors that is the best part that is the easiest greatest thing i'm gonna have to do it i'm gonna try it next time reseat everything just when you get a new game just receive all the connectors before you turn it on that's probably the best way i've had to do it to my own games i mean and people are like what's that gonna do like why why does i'm like listen i don't know the science behind it i'm not an engineer i didn't build these games but i will tell you that it does work i love it man but we're gonna do it so again a tech tip number one reseat all the connectors and see if with the game problem with the game off with the game off greg's tech tips hey so i wanted to take a second i've been with flipping out now for a little bit over a month and I've had the opportunity to talk to a lot of people and just customers coming in and asking questions and curious. I want to see what, what I'm experiencing is similar to what you're experiencing. Like what are people calling in about right now? What are people looking for? Oh man. From your side of things. Yeah. Um, potters, potters are still strong. Um, Jaws 50th, obviously, uh, you know, that kind of being the latest drop those Jaws 50th, man, did they sell um probably better than what i thought they were going to those things were hot uh i think we have just a couple left um maybe what three or four left if that uh in those like we sold what we sold like two yesterday even still so those things are going hot um what else do dune dune still got some dunes coming out there um you'd mentioned on your end um i'll let you elaborate because i've had a few come in but you know that new code drop on x-men yeah we've been used x-men new x-men premium like those those have been going pretty good again yeah i i okay so we're in the same alignment here i've got uh on my list jaws 50th harry potter uh x-men and dune exactly the same four and x-men you know it's nice to see the game have some more legs after publicly addressing some of the code uh you know feedback that that certain has been receiving so that's cool and that yeah yeah well you know i i don't have a lot of time on the game i've got to get on it so for me i'll be experiencing that for the first time with uh updated code it seems like but that new code made a big difference it was a i didn't mind it before i mean it it was what it was uh it wasn't atrocious or anything but there wasn't a lot going on but man this new code update oh it made it so much better like so so much better that that i know that a couple of customers that had sold their games or traded them into us they come back and bought it again because they're like oh man it's like it's like i wish i would have known it's like all right just just wait wait for x-men 50th to come out and then you'll uh you'll have something but joss 50th actually was uh and it's funny because we were talking about that was it the last episode or two episodes ago i don't recall and uh you know we were positive on the on the game and there are a couple things that didn't necessarily call us maybe uh in in super high regard with some of the art decisions but i gotta say and again this isn't me trying to be salesy or anything like the game the things that i thought didn't appeal to me are appealing to me more more so with the artwork and and i would like to own that game at some point i would like to own a nice jaws 50th i'm not wrong and you know what zach's the one that's talked me into it like that bastard talks me into so much stuff because he starts talking he's like you know greg but you really need to think about this and consider this and i'm like you stop it yeah stop it yeah yeah it's it's it's a good it's a good overall package i like how they did that at the end of the day i'm gonna i'm gonna tip my hat on the uh on the jaws 50th so and i don't have the exact date you guys will have to uh tune into the pinball show uh next time zach and dennis record but i do believe that they are going to do a potential another run of these uh jaws yeah so i think we were expecting to get some of those in july because we had a little bit of a back order and i think there will be back in stock and then potentially another little mini run in September, if I recall. Yes, yes. I think that's about right. Perfect, perfect. So, hey, if you've got to get out there, if you're looking to get a new game, you're looking to get a used game, and that's the other thing I wanted to talk about too. The used inventory is turning over so fast at the Flip N Out Pinball Facebook page. If you're looking for a used game, go to our Facebook page. While you're there, just click follow or like because at that point, when things are updated, you're going to get a notification. we started an interest list for used games now and it's been tremendously helpful because the used games go fast we have them priced to move and i would challenge anybody to to compare our used prices to anywhere else um and you're getting super deals but if you have a used game that you're looking for if you're looking for a simpsons pinball party you're looking for a scared stiff uh you're looking for a road show you can email myself or greg and again that's ken at flipping out pinball or greg at flipping out pinball let us know what you were looking for used wise we'll put you on the list that way when it comes in on trade or we buy a game we can actually even reach out to you uh as it's getting posted so yes and you've refined that process we we had a list prior but we had issues with how we were creating the list how everything happened so you've came in and you you really helped us refine that so now it's a little bit better so if you get on that list if you've already said hey i wanted on a list prior re-email me re-email ken um because this new setup we've tried to import people over but but it's a lot it's a lot better setup and a lot more conducive to to us being able to find people uh and be able to get people you know the games that they want and i'm not trying to create a sense of urgency or FOMO or anything like that But I'm telling you, the used games go fast. They're quick. They're priced to move. And, yeah, so if you have something in mind, just we're not asking for anything up front. Just get your information when it comes in. We'll let you know, hey, that game you're looking for is here. And on the top of that Facebook page, there is a pinned post. Well, it's not a post. It's a list. I don't know what you would call it up there. But it's like a drop down. It's a pinned post. Okay, it's a pinned post. So on there, Zach will always put the date on there. It was just updated yesterday. 7-15 and if you look on the hill he'll have when he updated it but it will literally tell you the entire list of used and new games that we have and what is available if it's been a reduced price where it's at so even if you don't want to you know just so you don't have to scroll all through facebook you can look on there and if you find like what you said a simpsons pinball party or something now you can say okay that's still available then scroll through the facebook you know post and you can find that game take a look at pictures details and all that stuff but So it's a good quick reference. Look up there on that thing if you don't want to just scroll through a bunch of posts looking for games. Yeah, and I've got to say, overwhelmingly, when somebody is reaching out and they're inquiring about a game or the ordering process or something, I've got to tip my hat to you and Zach. You guys are my buddies, obviously, so I hold you true to my heart, and I love you guys. But the level of appreciation and referrals for people coming in because they had a good experience or a great experience with flipping out or a buddy of theirs had a great experience, it's amazing. it's more than I ever thought to even give you guys credit for. So I just want to even say publicly, you know, Greg and Zach, you guys, you guys are killing it over there and I'm happy to be aboard because you guys are rocking. We strive and we try to keep, you know, the industry, you know, we try to uphold that, that industry leading customer service that we're known for it, but you know, I mean, things, things happen, but I mean, you know, for the, I'd say that we are a 99.9% satisfaction rate, which, which is huge, but you know, it's like you said, and you know, you're seeing yourself, you know, with what you're doing, your, your great asset to everything. Just, you know, we all, we all work hard to keep that and we try to do the best we can to, to make everybody happy with their purchase and to make their game, their game, the most enjoyable experience that they could ever have. Proud to be aboard Zach, Nicole, Greg, and team. It's going to be a, it's going to be a fun time. I can't wait to see what's going to happen here going forward. And it's just, everything's good. Life is good. Greg, life is good. I recently got into cigars and because you know what, I'm working from home now out of St. Charles, Illinois, and it's been a very fulfilling experience. A cigar and a bourbon goes a long way. It does. It kind of just chills the day down as we get ready to chill the episode down here on the Flip N Out Pinball Podcast. Do you have any final thoughts, Greg? I do not, man. This was a good episode. I enjoyed what the community brought to us and gave us a lot to think about. It meant a lot. This is the first episode that we had a chance to do where a new pinball machine didn't come out, so it's kind of nice to just kind of have the banter and find our groove. And listen, we appreciate everybody that's coming in and listening. Go to Flip N Out Pinball Podcast on Facebook. Like, follow, or share over there, and you'll be notified of new episodes. Or follow us on your favorite podcatcher, whether that's Apple or Spotify or Podcast Attic. Wherever you're listening to podcasts, you should find us there. And if for some reason you're on a podcast platform that doesn't have the Flip N Out Pinball Podcast, let us know because we've got to figure that out. And one more time, you can reach us. My email is ken at flippinoutpinball.com. Greg, what's your email? greg at flip and out pinball.com and finally visit flipping out people.com for all of your pinball needs whether it's new used inventory accessories we've got it all over there for greg bone i am ken cromwell and for everybody out there there is nothing wrong with thinking that twilight zone sucks balls terrible don't forget to take some time out of your day to play some pinball so long everybody

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: dc474c11-5574-4714-bfbe-fef28216177c*