# Upside Down and Out. EP 96 **Source:** This Flippin' Podcast **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2020-02-05 **Duration:** 109m 45s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thisflippinpodcast/episodes/Upside-Down-and-Out--EP-96-ealcv7 --- ## Analysis Tommy Skinner and Taylor Reese return from a two-month hiatus discussing personal updates (Taylor's health challenges, diet, fractured clavicle, failed puppy trial; Tommy's wrestling season and weight management), their hosting of Indiana IFPA State Championships, and Tommy's conflicted feelings about the newly released Stranger Things pinball by Brian Eddy—praising the theme but criticizing inconsistent Demogorgon shot mechanics, missing one-way gate durability, and lack of audio-visual feedback. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Stranger Things pinball was designed by Brian Eddy, his first game in 20+ years — _Tommy states this as fact when discussing the game's release_ - [HIGH] The Demogorgon shot on Stranger Things is super inconsistent and requires physical adjustments that shouldn't be necessary on a new game — _Tommy explains his main issue with the machine after playing three different units_ - [HIGH] Taylor lost 16 pounds in 30-34 days on Whole30 diet (from 190 to 174 lbs) — _Taylor directly states this achievement during personal update segment_ - [HIGH] Taylor fractured his clavicle but didn't know about it until recently — _Taylor mentions discovering the fracture yesterday when discussing his health challenges_ - [HIGH] Travis Hockenmeyer, 20 years old, won Indiana IFPA State Championships and only lost one game all day — _Tommy describes tournament results in detail as the host/TD_ - [HIGH] Rick from southern Indiana came in second place at Indiana States and is a former video game world record holder recently transferring to pinball — _Tommy describes Rick's background and tournament performance_ - [HIGH] Tommy's wrestling team took third place at team state tournament (down from winning it last year) — _Tommy discusses wrestling season results during personal updates_ - [HIGH] The Stranger Things one-way gate broke on Tommy's machine (common issue reported by others) — _Tommy mentions his gate broke and is difficult to replace due to location under Demogorgon_ - [MEDIUM] Medieval Madness is considered the best pinball game ever and was the first game to be remade — _Tommy states this as community consensus when discussing classic games_ - [HIGH] Tommy is planning to attend Pin Masters tournament and stay with AJ (Adam Jordan) — _Tommy states he booked his flight last week for the event in about a month_ ### Notable Quotes > "It's been a full two months... my daughter was diagnosed with pneumonia and strep... we started this restrictive diet called Whole30... I fractured my clavicle... we got a puppy on trial and the trial didn't go, so the puppy went home" > — **Taylor Reese**, ~0:05:00 > _Explains Taylor's two-month absence and the turbulent period leading up to States hosting_ > "I went from 190 to 174 [pounds]. That's too skinny, bud, because you're like way taller than me. I'm 6'1"." > — **Taylor Reese**, ~0:15:00 > _Demonstrates the dramatic results of Whole30 diet in 30-34 days_ > "There was a lot of animosity within Indiana this year. Yeah. And day of the event, everybody was really cool." > — **Tommy Skinner**, ~0:40:00 > _Notes improved community dynamics during the tournament despite pre-event tensions_ > "The Demogorgon shot... is super inconsistent. And on top of that, if you do hit it and actually make it into the mouth somehow and kill the Demogorgon, there is almost no audio-visual feedback." > — **Tommy Skinner**, ~1:15:00 > _Core criticism of Stranger Things main mechanism across multiple units_ > "I don't think when a game ships to people new, it should be expected or required that you have to make a lot of little physical adjustments to, like, dial it in, quote-unquote." > — **Tommy Skinner**, ~1:18:00 > _Philosophical objection to requiring owner adjustments on new releases_ > "I'm glad Brian Eddy's back in pinball because the guy's done some cool stuff, and I think he still has some cool stuff in him." > — **Tommy Skinner**, ~1:15:00 > _Acknowledges respect for designer despite criticizing this specific game_ > "Stranger Things... is a dream theme for me. Like we've talked about on the show before" > — **Tommy Skinner**, ~1:22:00 > _Explains the emotional stakes of being disappointed by a game with his favorite theme_ > "I got my Jurassic Park, and I haven't had to do shit to it, and the game's awesome." > — **Tommy Skinner**, ~1:17:00 > _Uses Jurassic Park as counterexample of a well-functioning new machine (despite raptor gate issue)_ > "He's just really good... he just dominated everybody all day. I think he only lost one game all day. He was really impressive." > — **Tommy Skinner**, ~0:45:00 > _High praise for tournament winner Travis Hockenmeyer's performance_ > "It's a funny hobby." > — **Tommy Skinner**, ~0:50:00 > _Reflects on community dynamics after the incident with missing camera lens during tournament_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Tommy Skinner | person | Co-host of This Flippin' Podcast, wrestling coach, pinball collector/host, ran Indiana IFPA State Championships | | Taylor Reese | person | Co-host of This Flippin' Podcast, experienced competitive pinball player, recently completed Whole30 diet and fractured clavicle | | Brian Eddy | person | Pinball designer, created Stranger Things pinball, first game design in 20+ years | | Travis Hockenmeyer | person | 20-year-old pinball player, won Indiana IFPA State Championships 2020, student at Purdue, qualified for nationals | | Rick | person | Newer pinball player from southern Indiana, finished second at Indiana States, former video game world record holder | | Adam Jordan | person | Pinball community member, known as AJ, Pin Masters player and tournament participant | | Mike | person | Owns pinball location in Fort Wayne, Indiana; stepfather of tournament winner Travis Hockenmeyer | | Matt Peace | person | Pinball player who has moved to southern Indiana, recommended Rick as a talented player to Tommy | | Bob Skinner | person | Pinball player who defeated Taylor at Indiana States in quarterfinals (4-3 score), no relation to Tommy | | Phil Baird | person | Three-time Washington DC pinball champion, wrestling fan, planning to visit Pin Masters with Tommy and Taylor group | | This Flippin' Podcast | organization | Pinball podcast hosted by Tommy Skinner and Taylor Reese, now hosted on Anchor with distribution to Spotify, Breaker, Pocket Cast | | Indiana IFPA State Championships | event | Competitive pinball tournament held at Pin Vault in 2020, hosted by Tommy, featured classic and DMD games | | Pin Vault | venue | Private pinball club in Indiana, semi-public (open 2 days/month), hosted 2020 Indiana States with ~15 machines | | Pin Masters | event | Major pinball tournament occurring about a month after podcast recording, Tommy and Taylor planning to attend and compete | | Texas Pinball Festival | event | Major pinball tournament/expo event occurring a couple weeks after Pin Masters that Tommy will attend | | Stranger Things | game | Recently released pinball machine by Brian Eddy based on Stranger Things TV show, main mechanism is Demogorgon shot, Pro version, has durability issues | | Medieval Madness | game | Classic pinball game considered the best ever, remade by Chicago Gaming, referenced as layout comparison | | Attack from Mars | game | Classic Bally/Williams game with similar layout structure to Stranger Things, remade by Chicago Gaming | | Jurassic Park | game | Modern Stern pinball machine by Keith Elwin, used as comparison example of working well out-of-box despite raptor gate issue | | Anchor | organization | Podcast hosting platform used for This Flippin' Podcast, enables distribution to Spotify, Breaker, Pocket Cast | | Purdue University | organization | University in Lafayette where tournament winner Travis Hockenmeyer transferred and attends school | | Steve Bowden | person | Mr. Steve Bowden, recommended Anchor hosting platform to Tommy | ### Topics - **Primary:** Stranger Things pinball game quality and mechanical issues, Indiana IFPA State Championships 2020 tournament results and hosting - **Secondary:** Personal health and lifestyle updates (diet, injury, family changes), Classic pinball game comparisons (Medieval Madness, Attack from Mars, Swords of Fury), Podcast platform migration and distribution, Wrestling season and team performance, Upcoming tournament schedule (Pin Masters, Texas Pinball Festival) - **Mentioned:** Community dynamics and trust in pinball hobby ### Sentiment **Mixed** (0.35) — Tommy is disappointed with Stranger Things despite loving the theme and praising Brian Eddy's return; positive about Indiana States hosting and tournament outcomes; Taylor's personal segment covers both challenging life events and positive achievements (weight loss); hosts maintain warm rapport and humor despite serious topics ### Signals - **[product_concern]** Stranger Things pinball has widespread reports of inconsistent Demogorgon shot mechanics, broken one-way gate, and insufficient audio-visual feedback, requiring owner adjustments out of box (confidence: high) — Tommy played three different units and all exhibited the Demogorgon issue; one-way gate broke on his machine; multiple Pinside reports cited of same issues; issues cannot be fixed by code alone - **[design_philosophy]** Brian Eddy returning to pinball game design after 20+ years with Stranger Things title, representing significant industry comeback (confidence: high) — Tommy explicitly states 'Brian Eddy's first game in like 20 plus years'; expresses gladness about his return despite criticizing this specific game - **[product_strategy]** Stranger Things represents premium IP licensing opportunity; Tommy describes it as 'dream theme' for him personally, indicating strong collector/fan interest in IP-based games (confidence: high) — Tommy owns extensive Stranger Things memorabilia collection (10 metal lunchboxes, Nike shoes, apparel); describes feeling joyful watching show; expresses emotional investment in theme - **[competitive_signal]** Indiana IFPA State Championships 2020 results: Travis Hockenmeyer won (20 years old), Rick from southern Indiana placed second, Taylor Reese tied for 5th/6th place; high talent pool with emerging younger players (confidence: high) — Tommy hosted tournament and describes detailed results; Travis only lost one game all day; Rick is recent pinball transferee with video game background; tournament had competitive atmosphere despite pre-event animosity - **[gameplay_signal]** Stranger Things layout compared to Attack from Mars: similar structure but Demogorgon shot plagued by inconsistency; Tommy prefers Medieval Madness design and criticizes AFM's plainness despite acknowledging its popularity (confidence: medium) — Tommy explicitly compares Stranger Things to AFM; discusses layout mechanics in detail; notes feedback differences on saucer shots; explains personal preference for Medieval Madness upper playfield mechanics - **[community_signal]** Tommy experienced item theft during Indiana States (fisheye iPhone lens), raising concerns about opening private game room to community; references prior incident 10 years ago with local who posted negative content online, creating lasting wariness (confidence: high) — Item went missing during tournament; TD sent letter seeking return with no response; Tommy describes past creep incident on RGP; expresses reluctance to invite people into home despite previously being open to hosting visitors - **[event_signal]** Indiana States 2020 hosted at Pin Vault with ~15 machines plus Tommy's contributions; featured snack/break room; reported minor operational issues (slingshot sensitivity, display digit failures on Firepower/Roller Games) (confidence: high) — Tommy describes setup in detail; mentions equipment he maintained/repaired pre-event; describes day-of mechanical issues; notes smooth execution and positive player feedback despite minor problems - **[personnel_signal]** Travis Hockenmeyer (20 years old) dominates Indiana States, qualifies for nationals; Rick (southern Indiana) shows breakout performance from video game background; represents new generation of competitive players (confidence: high) — Travis won with only 1 loss all day; Tommy predicts he'll surprise people at nationals; Rick came second and is noted as 'incredibly talented' transferee from video game world - **[product_concern]** Tommy criticizes expectation that new pinball machines require customer adjustments/modifications to function properly; contrasts with Jurassic Park which requires no work despite one raptor gate issue (confidence: high) — Tommy states 'I don't think when a game ships to people new, it should be expected or required that you have to make a lot of little physical adjustments'; uses JP as counterexample of proper out-of-box functionality - **[sentiment_shift]** Tommy maintains respect for Brian Eddy and his industry return while clearly disappointed by Stranger Things execution; careful to avoid seeming dismissive of designer or game despite significant mechanical complaints (confidence: high) — Tommy prefaces criticism with 'I don't want to be a dick because... I'm glad Brian Eddy's back'; acknowledges game's similarity to popular AFM will attract players; states 'I'm not saying it's a bad game' - **[content_signal]** This Flippin' Podcast migrated from SoundCloud to Anchor hosting, expanding availability to Spotify, Breaker, and Pocket Cast; represents growth in podcast distribution and audience reach (confidence: high) — Tommy states SoundCloud 'sucked' and they got recommendations for Anchor; lists new distribution platforms explicitly; notes update already reflected across platforms --- ## Transcript Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, sounds good. All right. If you want to start us, and then we'll just talk about all kinds of shit. Sounds good, man. We are not part of the pinball network, so you can't start with that. I was never going to start with that. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, listeners, to episode, we think, 96 of this Flippin' Podcast. It's possible. Welcome to 2020. We took vacation for a few months. It's a new year. It's a new decade. Taylor's still going to be grouchy. I'm still going to be wherever I am. I'm good, man. Taylor is no longer grouchy. This is news to everybody. Congrats, Taylor. Thank you. But I'm Tommy Skinner, joined by my co-host, my partner, Taylor Reese. We are this flipping podcast. We have switched our hosting. It's already been updated pretty much everywhere, so I don't think any of you will ever really notice a difference. But just in case, we are now hosted on Anchor, which actually made us available via even more places. You can now listen to us on Spotify and Breaker and Pocket Cast. What? Pocket Cast? Yeah, Pocket Cast. SoundCloud kind of sucked. We used them for like the last year, and it just wasn't really worth it. So I got some good recommendations from a few other people, including another, Mr. Steve Bowden himself about Anchor, and it seemed really nice. So we're trying that out. we will be bringing you the same sporadic content when we find time to talk to one another that we always have uh but taylor man how are you doing i'm i'm doing i'm doing okay i'm not great um i'm not great man but um yeah i'm good no it's been a crazy good it's been a it's been a crazy couple months. I don't even remember when we last talked. It was, I think, shortly before Thanksgiving. It's been like a full two months. It's been a full two months. So I will tell you without trying to make this a five hour episode, between Thanksgiving and now, my daughter was diagnosed with pneumonia and strep my, we had Christmas. Christmas was fine. I'm trying to think. I don't think anything really happened around Christmas. Went camping for New Year's. Went to a rustic cabin, no power or anything like that for New Year's Eve. That was great. Came home and what the fuck. Oh, so we started a diet. We started this restrictive diet called Whole30 where you don't eat any sugar. No processed sugar, no legumes, no grain, no alcohol, no shit. Like all kinds of shit. Anything that's possibly fun we don't touch. Basically, yeah, basically it's whole foods. So, like, you can eat whole foods. So I did that for 30 days starting January 2nd. and did that for the last 30 days. I fractured my clavicle. I didn't even know about that. Yeah, I didn't know about it until yesterday. Oh, okay. So I'm not behind at least. Yeah, yeah, no. And then all kinds of other shit happened. And yesterday I'm like the worst fucking father ever. So we got a puppy. Oh, that's awesome. We got a puppy on trial, and the trial didn't go, so the puppy went home, went back. Oh. Yeah, that'll make you pretty unfavorable. But, you know, I'm not a dog person. Like, I like dogs. Like, I really like dogs. Like, I love my friends' dogs. You just don't want to take care of one. It's a lot of fucking work, man. That's how I feel about kids, man. It turns out dogs are easier, but you already got the kids, so you're screwed. Well, you know, yeah. In a good way. I have two kids. But, yeah, the dog – well, I think the thing about a dog, and especially because we had a puppy, it was like every hour you've got to take it out or it's pissing. Yeah. So, you know, like I have – I keep a really – you've never actually come to visit me, which is kind of fucked up. Hey, you've never come to visit me either. Dude. We're trying to remedy that this summer. We're trying. Okay. I will come out to Indiana. know i really i think it's better if i come there to be honest okay well yeah well this way um but um yeah so i keep a tidy house like my people give me shit about how in over 10 yeah i'm not tidy you're not gonna wanna you're not gonna want to be right i'm i'm really tidy i'm really i keep a really clean house um i love my house i love my house but i mean it's kind of like a pinball restoration right it's like you want to have like a really really nice restoration i feel like that about my house. I feel like that about shit I own. Um, but yeah, so the dog's pissing in my house and I, it smelled like a dog, like all of a sudden, like my clean home. I mean, we have a cat and all it does is it farts every once in a while. It's like it has, it just, it's smelly. It's, but, um, but the dog was just, it's a different smell. Yeah. It sounds like a dog. So, yeah. So, um, the dog, we had the dog for two nights I walked a dog at 4.30 in the morning my wife walked it at like 2 in the morning and then finally it was like my kids just didn't seem very interested in the dog and I was like well fuck that if my kids aren't interested in the dog we're not going to have the dog because it's for the kids I mean that's the reality a dog is a long term commitment it's a 15 year commitment and I'm turning 48 on Sunday. Happy early birthday, buddy. Thanks. 48. I turned 48 on Sunday. That's fucking crazy. How the fuck did I turn 48, Tommy? I don't know, man. I hope I make it that far, though. I want to have a midlife crisis, but I'm like, I don't know what I would do because I have a lot of shit. And I'm like, all right, well, I have the shit. What would you do? like midlife crisis like sell all my games uh i don't know man i plan to live to be 120 so i still got like 25 years till i hit a midlife crisis you're good but yeah yeah so it's been it's been busy man it's been crazy i lost um i lost uh i lost 16 pounds in 30 34 days yeah that's a good That's a good diet, man. That's fucking crazy. I went from 190 to 174. That's too skinny, bud, because you're like way taller than me. I'm 6'1". Less than I weigh. It's kind of crazy. I mean, like I'm not – but like I was posting what I was eating on my Instagram because I went from pinball to food, and I was eating a lot of food. I mean, you know, as a wrestler – See, you say you're eating a lot of food, but I saw your portions and like that's like like a snack for me are you serious like what do you like as a I'm not talking about wrestling like right so just in perspective so like I'm a big eater I like to eat but I was getting a little heavy but it's part of it's because I'm I'm like the workout partner for our heavyweight this year and he just walks around at 250 he's a big thick kid yeah and like I got to the heaviest I've ever been this year like 192 194 uh just because if I get a whole lot lighter he can toss me too easily so I've got to like keep my weight up but like season's kind of wrapping up and you know I'm like I don't like being this big so I just went on a diet in the last week but my biggest thing is I have to like completely cut my portions down because if there's food there I'll eat it yeah so I've literally been eating like for the last what nine or ten days now I've switched over to just eight ounce meals like whatever I eat there's only eight ounces of food on my plate and I've dropped like seven pounds in that time what um but that's like there's a huge difference between like what wrestlers do and like healthy ways of losing weight it's not that wrestlers aren't healthy it's just like when you actually do like the actual weight cut oh yeah that's more of like a dehydration thing yeah that's crazy but like yeah a lot of it's like you can still eat pretty decent sized portions when you're wrestling as long as eating like really healthy foods whereas like now i still don't want to eat really healthy foods yeah but i'm just really making sure i eat like small portions of whatever it is i'm eating but so what do you eat like what's a small portion like what's it literally eight ounces of food whatever it is i know but what is that like what give me a visual what that would be like like what's on your plate what's eight ounces of food on your plate it just depends i've been buying like little healthy frozen eight ounce meals so i try to mix them up but there's been like pasta with shrimp and pasta with chicken. But like what is an eight – what does eight ounces look like? I mean because you're doing it by – you're weighing it? Picture filling up like essentially close to a half cup and then just pouring it on your plate. That's all you're eating? Yeah. That's crazy. That's not – that's like – I bet you anything you were eating maybe 12 ounces of food when you were looking at your plate. Oh, no way. I was eating like a – Oh, yeah. I was eating a sausage. I was eating two eggs. I was eating like five – this is – we haven't recorded in a while. I was eating – like my breakfast was two eggs, a sausage link, and not like a small sausage. And then I was having – like I would do like a veggie scramble of like five pieces of asparagus, like a quarter red pepper, a handful of spinach, like quarter cup of mushrooms. I would do – Dude, but that's all – that's all – And a half an avocado. Like, yeah, I was eating a lot of food. I was eating a lot of food, but it was all, like, no processed food. But the whole idea with the diet is, like, you're supposed to cut everything out and then reintroduce stuff. Because a lot of it is, like, trying to figure out if you're allergic to stuff. So now I have to reintroduce stuff. It's a process. did you fear you were allergic to something I have I have issues with dairy and gluten so yeah so it's kind of like you give your body 30 days to reset your diet and then you yeah you reintroduce stuff fair enough yeah so I'll eat more food and uh yeah what's up what have you been up to i mean i've been doing other stuff but no one wants to hear about yeah yeah it's uh well yeah we both ran uh or you hosted and i ran the ifpa state championships a couple weeks ago so that certainly kept us both busy through much of january i imagine yeah i was busy um yeah i played i ended up tying for fifth or sixth or whatever that that is eliminated before made to the final eight and got eliminated in that round basically yeah um lost four to three to uh bob skinner guy's been playing around forever we're not related but uh we had like incredibly close games it was pretty exciting actually uh obviously didn't want to lose but just got beat so yeah that happens um everything go good on your end that day i imagine um Yeah, so leading up to States, I just started working on my games like crazy. Yeah, it seems like you were just getting everything perfect, which is awesome. Yeah, I mean, and I haven't been hosting league. Like, I dropped out of my league like two seasons ago or something like that just because Tuesday nights just did not work anymore with my kids' schedule. So I hadn't been hosting regularly, so there's really no need to, like, make sure everything is playing great because generally I play only two games and I just kind of camp on those but um yeah so I went through everything went through like the classics like stars had a light that never I don't think it ever worked since I owned it and it turned out you know so I did some board work on that and then um meteor like I was doing stuff like on meteor like I had bulbs that would be really flaky you know where you get like it's just a bad bulb so you get like a little flicker or it's not you know it's more dim than the other lights so I went through and I replaced all my meteor lights with these new lamp PCBs that are awesome I'm trying to remember the guy who does them but they he makes them for a bunch of classic Stern games and yeah they're great so meteor was like just playing like a champ i mean just everything yeah everything was playing really well firepower i redid the um the 40 pin inter interconnector or whatever i'm not sure what they call it but because my firepower was doing like crazy shit like it was just doing really wonky stuff and so i replaced a 40 pin connector and it was good Super Soccer was good. But, yeah, just went through everything. And then the day of the tournament, the only issues I had, like roller games, had a bunch of ball hang-ups at the top of the, like, the upper ramp. There was a switch up there that the ball would just get caught on if it was, like, a soft shot. And then on, yeah, and then on Firepower, I had a weird issue where, like, the player one and three, the 100,000 display would go out. I hear a dog. That's all right. But, yeah, so my 100, the digits in the 100 display plays on 100,000 display plays on player one and three went out. so they just switched so that was players two and you just played players two and four so it's fine it was a long day i mean i wasn't playing so i was just there you know um like real no mechanical issues outside of outside of i don't think there was really anything big the um yeah it was really just like you know every once in a while like a slingshot would get too happy because I had them set really tight. And then, yeah, that's it. But, yeah, it was good. I will say, like, yeah, I don't know. I had something in my game room that I think went missing, and I think it went missing during states. So I'm kind of bummed about that. Yeah, that's pretty annoying. Yeah, that was a little weird. And it wasn't anything that was, like, worth anything, but it was still something that I don't know where it is, and I know where it was, and it was in my game room, and now it's not. Like, I don't know. You know, I thought, I figured, like, maybe somebody, like, because I have, it's basically like a clip-on lens that you use on your iPhone to give it, like, a fisheye. Yeah, I've got one of those. Yeah, and so I had one. I never use it, but I have one. Yeah, like, and I was taking, so I was taking pictures with it early on during the tournament. And, you know, a couple people asked me about it because they saw the pictures. You know, the pictures look cool. But, yeah, so, like, I put it in this place where I keep it all the time, and it wasn't there at the end of the night. So, you know, I was thinking, like, maybe somebody just, like, pocketed it by accident. You know, like, hey, oh, let me use this. And then, oh, I got to play my game. But the TD sent out a letter and nobody responded that they had it. So it left. Yeah, this kind of sucks. I mean, it's cool to, I mean, it's like, it was nice. I was really, I don't know. I'm kind of bummed about it. I'm pretty bummed about it. Just, I don't know, man. And, like, I don't – I used to be really free with opening up my game room to people. Like, people would come to town, you know, and it was like, oh, hey, people would reach out and just go, hey, where should I go play in Richmond? And at the time, there weren't really any locations. There were no locations. And so, like, people would come into town and I would just invite them over. Yeah, I thought the same thing. Right? And, yeah, I was really open with it. And then I had, like, an incident. And I've talked about it on the podcast before. I had an incident with a local guy who was just like totally was a creep and posted a bunch of shit about me on RGP like a long time ago. I mean, this is like, shit, did I live here? Ten years ago? Oh, no, I did live here. Yeah, maybe like ten years ago. But, yeah, I was like, and then after that, I was like, man, I don't want to have people over. Like, this is a local guy who's going to do this shit? So, I don't know. So, it's tough. Like, I felt, I don't know. I think it's really hard to, like, let people into your home. It's a big deal to me. So, it kind of sucks to think that somebody may have taken something that did not belong to them. so that put a damper on the event for me um but it was it was cool to host it um and it was a good tournament i mean it seemed like the players like it it was really competitive and um you know it was it was fun to watch and not play and like i set up like a break room where people could hang out and, like, set up, like, a snack area and stuff like that. So, yeah, it was good. But, you know, that kind of put a downer on it. C'est la vie, man. It's a funny hobby. Hopefully the camera lens will turn up, just, like, got knocked down somewhere or something. But, you know, if it didn't, it sucks either way. Oh, yeah, yeah. But, yeah, I mean, it was, you know, it is what it is. But, yeah. Yeah, where did you guys host this year? It was like Pin Vault or something? Yeah, the Pin Vault, it's kind of like a, it's not, it's a little bit of the collective, kind of like what you guys have, but more of like a private club, I'd say, almost. They're open to the public two days a month, that's it. And then they host like a league for private, a private league for members and stuff. Had about 15 machines, and I brought in a few extras for the day of the event. Had some cool stuff. Things ran really smooth. There was a lot of animosity within Indiana this year. Yeah. And day of the event, everybody was really cool. So that was good to see. A newer player from southern Indiana ended up taking second named Rick. And he was incredibly talented. It was cool to see him play finally. Matt Peace, who I think you've met and we've talked about on the show before. He had warned me. He goes, you know, I've met this guy, Rick. He's been playing down in southern Indiana. Matt's moved down that way. And he's just really good. And he is. I think he owns some world records for video game stuff, and he's just kind of recently transferred over to the pinball world, as I was explained to me. But he was a really nice guy, really good player. He ended up coming in second. And Travis Hockenmeyer, who is a 20-year-old who originally is, I believe it's his stepfather, Mike, is the one who owns the location up in Fort Wayne. And Travis actually transferred down to Purdue here this school year. So he's actually in Lafayette, and he ended up winning it, and he just dominated everybody all day. I think he only lost one game all day. He was really impressive, and he is going to go out to nationals. Nice. And, I mean, he honestly, he just played great. It was really impressive to watch over. We had a lot of classic solid states there. We had a couple modern LCD displays, and we had a lot of DMDs from the 90s. So, I mean, he played over a variety of stuff. There was no EMs in the tournament this year. that happened some years here because we kind of rotated around and it's what that location has so uh that was that but he played really great and uh i'm wishing him the best of luck out at nationals if he plays like he did i think it'll kind of surprise some people out there um i am actually heading out there to play in the pin masters just over a month from today i think uh staying with our our buddy uh aj adam jordan oh nice out there and uh we're both going to play and the pin masters together. So it seems like a good excuse to finally get out there and visit him. If you guys would host a major tournament out in Richmond, I could have an excuse to go, Taylor. Oh, there is a major tournament. There's a major tournament coming to Richmond. Is it in the summer? No. Damn. Still might be possible. We'll see. But summertime would be good because then I've got no rush about getting out there. But anyway, I'm looking forward to doing that with AJ. I just booked my flight last week. We are going to play. um we're gonna get some tattoos while we're out there oh really nice um uh phil um not mr grimaldi but phil i think it's oh phil i'm sorry i'm forgetting the last time i think it's baird he won washington dc yeah uh i met him a few this is third time winning i met him a few years ago when i won state out at uh the nationals and pin masters our buddy pierce introduced us and uh we're both big pinball and wrestling fans so we have stayed in touch and he won dc this year and he's going to come out there and he's going to stay with us too so we got a nice little group going out there and then a couple weeks after that it's Texas Pinball Festival season so like as soon as wrestling here I got three weeks of wrestling left um we've had a good season uh since we last spoke uh the team as a team took third at the team state tournament uh last year we won it so that was a little bit heartbreaking and disappointing um on one hand and at the hand like I'm trying to still be happy because like a lot of the kids who weren't there last year came out to the team because of what we did last year. We're still pretty excited to be at the state tournament and take third. So that was, you know, trying to see the bright side of things and not be like a Debbie Downer. Whereas, like, you know, I'm not disappointed in anyone in particular. Just in general, like, I'm really competitive and I really like to win. So that part would have been nice. But third place isn't bad. And the kids had a good time, you know, and it's cool to see them. We had our sectionals this past Saturday, which was the first round of our state individual tournament that goes on for four weeks, and this weekend we'll have regionals. There's 14 weight classes, and we had six champions. So we won almost half the weight classes there. And we had one other guy who lost in the finals. So it was a good showing for us. Nice. And I just realized, give me one second here, because the outlet I plugged my computer into is not on. I've got to hit the switch. One second. Hold on. Hold on. I'm moving. I'm moving. I got this. I'm in my project room, and I'm really over full of projects. What are you selling? I'll tell you what I'm selling. We might as well jump into this. Oh, are you selling something? I'm fucking selling stranger things. Okay, let's talk. This is our new segment called, What is Tommy selling because he cannot stand it? Yeah, so what are you selling because you can't stand it? Oh, wait. Tommy? Tommy, you need to sell that computer, dude. I'm right here. Oh. Got me? Yeah. All right. So I think I jiggled my mic while I was loose that time. Tommy, stop moving. I'm stuck in. I'm sorry, man. Okay. Anyway. These are all you, man. This is all you. Yeah, this is me. I apologize for all technical difficulties on this episode. So I think. Yeah, so what's up? So let's talk Stranger Things. So Stranger Things has come out. It's come out. It's come out. It's Brian Eddy's first game in like 20 plus years. And your initial impression of the game prior to owning it was... Not great. Okay. Why? Not great. So you know me decently well and I pretty much like obsessed with Stranger Things Like I love it as a child He loves it Like I sitting in my project room and in here I have a collection Like I don collect a lot of things but like Stranger Things memorabilia for some reason I love I have a collection of 10, like, metal lunchboxes from Stranger Things. Shut up. Oh, yeah. They were, like, released by, like, you could get them at Target or online. I didn't know that. I didn't know you collected Stranger Things stuff. Oh, dude, I have, like, I have stickers. I've got patches. Really? I just really like this show. Well, no, I did because you, like, have the shoes. I have the shoes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nike shoes. That's right. 1985 limited edition. And I don't even wear shoes, man. I'm a sandals guy. You know that. Yeah. Yeah. I have a Palace Arcade t-shirt. I have a Palace Arcade hat. Like, I love the show. That's so fun. When I watch it, it makes me feel joyous. Wow, that's awesome. Last summer, I bought an outdoor inflatable projector screen and a projector so at the lake we could watch the premiere and really just binge season three outside on a 15-foot inflatable screen. I love the show. So when you heard about Stranger Things pinball and that Brian Eddy was associated with it, you were really excited. I was potentially pretty damn excited because I love the shadow. Like, I just think it's one of the best layouts ever. Okay. Super great use of space on that game. As far as, like, huge ramp diverts, that's awesome. That upper play field is fucking garbage, though, man. Dude, I love the upper play field. I hated that thing, yeah. You probably just play it to get your hit numbers instead of trying to hit every target for your 70 million bonus. I don't know. Well, that's why you're on the stage at Pemburg and I'm not. One time. That's why. That's why. It's really cool. It's unique. Like, there's no way Stern's ever going to spend that much money on a mech, in a machine. That's why my stall ball starts when you're still playing. Like, you're still in the tournament and I'm losing money to, like, a bunch of people I don't know. Like, outside of that, like, there's different. The scoring is still well balanced in it. It's a great, I think it's a great layout. And I really like Medieval Madness. Like, I think that game is very well done. Like, obviously, it's to the point where it's considered the best game ever. See, I think. And made the first game to be remade. See, I like AFM. AFM. And I've owned. Yeah, I've never liked AFM. I've owned a Shadow. I've owned a Shadow. Hated it. The perba, the perba ramp, that lower, that right ramp to wire form. Yeah. That thing sucked, man. That. You just got to elongate the switch, man. I did that. I added, like, a brass piece. I, like, I manufactured shit. Like, I made, like, a really, like, sleek solution, but I still, like, I hated it. I don't know. I don't know, man. I like pop bumpers. Give me pop bumpers. See, I love a game without pop bumpers. Like, Just Tread, The Shadow, Swords of Fury, all good stuff. Mine is Swords of Fury. Fucked me at State, by the way. But, yeah. Swords of Fury is a kind of a furious game. That's, um. Oh, but I did play Swords of Fury once when I made the Lion Man shot, and that shot won me the game. Like, that was, like, my walk-off. Like, I hit Lion Man, bam, done. Yeah, I didn't know the rules on that game, as it turns out, and I ended up losing by, like, 30,000. And I could have just kept it up on the upper play field and hit the top nuggets, and I didn't know that. So, like, my whole thing was, like, oh, get it to the lower part and shoot the lock shot. And I bricked, and it went out, and I lost. So you also love AFM. I don't love AFM. What? I've never loved AFM. We discussed it before, and it's because I love the theme. Why don't you like AFM? It's just never done anything for me. It's just too fanny. I just don't play well on it, which I'm sure factors into it. It's just not high up there for me to want to play it. I think the theme is really funny. I think there's some good humor in it. Like, it's done well. I just don't care for it. I'm not saying it's a bad game. I think it's basically as plain of a play field as you can get. Yeah. I mean, it is, like. So, like, here's the, like, so shooting the saucers and destroying them, the machine on Attack from Mars provides you with so much audio, visual feedback from that. Yeah. It feels really good. Yeah. That being said, it's also like a super sucker shot to shoot up the middle, right? Well. At the motorized drop bank. Yeah, but, I mean, there's strategy to that. There is. There is. It's just not strategy I care for. Okay. And with that, like, I don't mind going for the total annihilation on that game. Uh-huh. And hitting all the shots to get that started. Like, I enjoy that a little bit more. Yeah. But again, hitting the stuff on Attack from Mars can feel really good. I just tend not to play well on it. I don't find it the most exciting thing. Okay, fair enough. Stranger Things, although not identical, is incredibly similar. And then my biggest issue, and it seems to be really inconsistent according to some people on Pinside, but I've played three different machines now, and the issue seems super prevalent no matter what to me, is that you cannot really make the Demogorgon shot. So the one and only main mechanism on the Pro version of the machine, in my mind right now, based on a lot of games on it, is super inconsistent. And on top of that, if you do hit it and actually make it into the mouth somehow and kill the Demogorgon, there is almost no audio-visual feedback. Now, look, I understand that can be fixed with code. Yeah. But the physical nature of that shot not working cannot. Yeah. Like, it just can't. People are trying all sorts of adjustments. And on top of this, I don't want to be a dick because, like, look, I'm glad Brian Eddy's back in pinball because the guy's done some cool stuff, and I think he still has some cool stuff in him. I just don't think when a game ships to people new, it should be expected or required that you have to make a lot of little physical adjustments to, like, dial it in, quote-unquote. Yeah. Because, like, I got my Jurassic Park, and I haven't had to do shit to it, and the game's awesome. Well, in all fairness, you did have some issues with your Jurassic Park. My Raptor gate broke. Okay. That's true. I never replaced it because it's not necessary. Like, day one. I like it. Like game one or something. It was game three or four, and the same thing happened on Stranger Things. One-way gate broke for me. What? Oh, yeah. Underneath the Demogorgon, too, so it's, like, super hard to get to. It's really awesome. Again, common problem. A lot of people are reporting it. It comes off of its hinges. Not great. But the part that hurts me so much is, like, I totally get how people are actually going to like the game because it's a lot like Attack from Mars, and Attack from Mars is very popular. So I get that. It's just not to my personal taste. Nothing wrong or against the game. As far as that goes, I don't like it. I'm not saying it's a bad game. There's tons of people that are going to like this game. What hurts even more to me, though, is, again, it's a dream theme for me. Like we've talked about on the show before. Yeah. If we could design games like this. I was never made a ton of progress with this, but I had the whole idea of retheming a Paragon into Stranger Things before, enough to where, like, I had talked with Jim Askey, who we've had on the show. Yeah. And basically I came up with an entire rule set using that layout to be rethemed into Stranger Things and how we could use the inserts there, et cetera, et cetera. And he was going to help me code it if we could build two of them so he'd have one too. Like it's a game that means a lot to me. Yeah. And then for them to only include seasons one and two like partially devastated me because season three is amazing. Yeah. And the battle for Starcourt Mall is like one of the best television series scenes I've seen in a long time. it's just awesome full of action fighting this giant monster right etc etc and then the machine only includes seasons one and two and then like i've listened to podcasts and i've watched some streams that have featured the design team including brian eddy and they talked about how they watched so much of the show and they included these scenes in the show and like while that's great that they did so much work with the license to get you know access to the the actors likenesses and their voices and the scenes and stuff. And we have Jim Hopper doing call-outs. There's a lot of really positive in there, again, that people are going to like. For me personally, like, I'm really, like, I'm a little, not a little, I'm really bitter about there not being Season 3 content because that season ended in July. Like, I think you could have, in this whole design process, been including that stuff. It's been being worked on for two years. you could have known it was coming so that part kind of bothers me why do you think they did that i don't know like i mean the reality is it's been literally about two years since they announced brian eddie was back uh which puts like season one having aired and season two having maybe been about to come out yeah when he would have started working on it um so that's part of it and then like although i think they you know like i said they watched a lot and they did a lot to come up with the rules and stuff, I feel like they didn't quite get the show, if that makes sense. Like, I don't know how really to explain it, but, like, to me, the show is all about relationships between the kids. Like, relationships, and it is friendships, and it is helping your friends and being there for your friends. And, yeah, there's, like, a whole fucked up backstory of, like, an evil corporation scientist bought fucking with the underworld, and then season three becomes the Russians, and you got the upside down. there's these monsters yada yada yada but like what drew people into the show is like the relationships between the friends friends don't lie right like you back up your friends you support your friends yeah and that's like not fucking featured in the game in any way like whatsoever yeah like when i step up to jurassic park it tells you welcome to jurassic park you're our new game keeper let us show you around the park right it tells you what who you are and what you're doing when i step up to stranger things hopper's like fucking talking to me and i don't know who the hell i am i don't know what it is i'm doing in this world under glass like it doesn't make sense yeah that's at all yeah you want you want you want the story like you want to be yeah you want the player to be a character in the show right i mean something like i want to have an idea Like, am I a new friend who's trying to join the group? Yeah. Am I one of the members of the group? Now, do you think part of that, do you think part of your issue, though, is that you had such an idea as to what it could and should be? Like, your expectations were like. Absolutely. I mean, because you are coming off as not just, I mean, I've watched Stranger Things. I mean, I think it's a great show. But I'm not, like, a super fan. I don't, I'm not collecting shit. so I can see where, yeah, your expectations were so high, and you had already established in your head, like, what you think it should be. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I think it's interesting as well, like, thinking about Jurassic Park, or even if you think about Attack from Mars, right? Attack from Mars, you're the person trying to save the world from the Martians. Yeah. You know, I mean, there's a story there. I mean, I guess that's the thing that's the story with Stranger Things is that it's a show, right? I mean, you know what I mean? Like it's not – I mean, is it telling – what story is it telling in the game? I can't figure that part out. That's a huge part of like what bothers me about it. Because it's not like a progression. I don't know what I'm doing or why I'm doing it. Right. I mean, it's not like a progression. I mean, the rule, I mean, because I have not played it. We do have one on location now. But, like, if you think about rule set, right, like you have the progression rule set where it's like Ghostbusters where you're working your way through the movie. Or, you know, or even like Wizard of Oz. Or, I mean, I'm like looking at most of the games I have that have any storyline like you're progressing through a story. It doesn't have that, right? I mean, is that what you're saying? No, it sure doesn't. Yeah, it sure doesn't feel like it. It's basically like you play and the scenes aren't in any sort of order. Like your left side of the play field is season one, so you know you're going to get a scene somewhat from season one, and then the right side of the play field is season two. But it's not done in a linear fashion at all? No. No, like the spinner, I think, alters which mode is lit on the season one aspect, and I think the pop bumper's mode is lit for season two, so you have very little control over like what mode you're headed into right um to begin with and then essentially very similar to attack from mars you've got left ramp right ramp left orbit right orbit you hit all three shots to all of those and that will like total annihilation for you or total isolation instead of total annihilation but essentially it's the same rule as from attack from mars the extra ball animation is the same animation and sound effect from attack from mars um like i know they're like oh look it's an easter egg it's it's it's a nod to attack from mars yeah and i was like hey this isn't fucking attack from mars like make it its own thing um like i just i'm i'm like absolutely just bitter over it's not what i expected at all um the back glass doesn't look great lit up for some reason i don't know why uh the rest of the other package i think looks really good i'm not gonna be as harsh on it as i've heard some other you'll be like, yeah, I think it looks okay. It's what it is. I don't think the shots are terrible. I will say this is my first new in-box turn that I haven't had play field issues with. The play field, I mean, it's dimpling, but I just think that's normal. Yeah. But I don't have clear bubbling at posts or anything like that. It does look much better than some of my others have. Just it looked nice opening it up and going through that. um again so it's much more of i'm not saying it's a terrible game i'm saying it's it's not something i enjoy to the point where i'm like literally when i go down there i like don't even want to touch it or play it oh man i'm sorry it's like it's okay it's just one of those things hey it's not not every game is for every person i know but still it's like that idea of like you know the dream theme idea and you know yeah yeah it's that's why i'm gonna be fair like i was really excited for Wrestlemania and like if I'm being brutally honest like I'd rather shoot Wrestlemania like I enjoy that layout more the rules are just absolutely terrible on that it was never you know it was never finished so I don't have the best luck what other dream things do you have that I noticed James Bond someone told me a rumor today that that's Elwin's next thing and I don't know if I believe him or not or if they were just trying to fuck with me to like give me hope well who's doing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Supposedly that's Borg. And that's a cool theme. I like it. It's nowhere on my dream list, but I think that could be fun. I definitely grew up a huge Ninja Turtles fan. So I hope Borg does something cool with it. I'm guessing we'll see that shortly after Texas. That's what Stern's done the last couple of years. Yeah. One week after Texas. Yeah. I'm just, again, basing it on history and all sorts of rumors about what might be included with that. So I look forward to that. But the way I look at it, I posted it. I think I posted it to Pennside a couple days ago about the Stranger Things, basically just putting it back up for sale. And then today I threw it up on Facebook. And it's earning okay, but it's earning at about half of what Jurassic Park and Iron Maiden did for their first two weeks. So it's not like it's terrible or anything, but compared to what some other new boxes have done, it's not as good. because I think people get really frustrated because it's like Star Wars. You get a ton of cheap trains off the plunge and off shooting those drop targets for the Demogorgon. There's a lot with the Demogorgon that I think they will be able to fix with Code. So that part, I think you'll still be able to bash him to kill him eventually. I think they'll be able to time it out, which you can't do right now. So there's some hope. and my thing is like if code does fix a ton of stuff and it's really good in the future you get it back i can get one back um that's like that's the good thing with starting it they build games yeah tommy's dying this is we um normally we sorry i choked on something and i'm in a room with no drinks i'm looking around this is what um usually we do a lot of exercises like vocal exercises before yeah we're out of shape we have such buttery voices but tonight we didn't yeah so anyway my whole thought is basically i'd rather move this game on at a slight loss to someone who wants it yeah and enjoys it instead of having to go down to the bar and look at it and be like Fuck that game. So we'll see what happens. I got a decent offer tonight, and then somebody said something about coming tomorrow. I'm waiting for another message from them. Nice. We'll see. The only weird thing is I'm supposed to have my launch party like February 16th, and Stern did send me the package for that this week, so I guess I would just send that back to Stern. I don't really know. I feel weird about that, but at the same time, I really, really just don't like it. Wow. Which is dope. And, again, another part of it is obviously, like, I do care about rule sets and stuff. And right now, within the game, yes, there's a lot of modes there, and, yes, they have points to them. But there's really no point if you're trying to go for, like, high scores to do anything other than play for multi-ball and total isolation. So what about the other? So one of the things I've heard about is the upside-down rules. Yeah. Like totally screw up the scoring because you can get an upside-down mode that happens randomly, and it's just worth huge points. Like people are like, don't use it in tournaments. So I've played with it at my location and another location in tournaments already. The other location did not have it on tournament mode, and literally cost me a game because two of the players got upside down and I did not. Same thing, Matt Peace wrote me an email today saying that literally happened to him at a four-strikes tournament last week, or a three-strikes tournament. He got all three strikes on the upside down on Stranger Things when the other players got upside down and he didn't. So that was a little frustrating. I put it on tournament mode at my location, and from what I can figure is it basically makes it based on switch hits then, that everyone gets like X amount of switch hits, and that's when upside down activates. That makes sense. Okay. So I think that did help balance it out because everyone seemed to – it didn't seem to be an issue for any of the players that I had. It only got picked or assigned a few times for our tournament, but nobody bitched about it to me at least, whereas I've heard it at the other places that have it. So I put all my games on tournament mode anyway and just always leave them that way. So I don't have to worry about it when it comes to tournament time. But, again, man, yeah, like absolutely, again, not saying a bad game. I'm really happy to have Brian Avery back. I'm sure he's going to get the code back. I don't want people to think like I'm personally attacking or harsh on them, but it's just not what I wanted or expected for Stranger Things. And this is a hobby that's supposed to make us, like, happy. Yeah. And that game is not bringing me happiness or joy right now. So it's kind of why I keep it around. Kick it to the curb. Yeah. Yeah, you know, there's plenty of other fun games out there. I just got a Demoman as well. And Demoman, thanks to a guy on Pinside and Tilt Forms known as Storen, I don't know if that's his name. He released new code for that, like, late November. Yep. And it's awesome. Nice. I've been playing the shit out of Demoman. So what's the code change? The biggest thing that it changes is a lot of times if you've ever seen Demoman in a tournament, they'll disable the claw feature. Yeah. So those awards are just awarded in a uniform pattern to all players. Yep. The biggest thing HisCode did is it makes it so that players can still select their awards using the claw. But once you pick an award, you can pick it again, but it's only worth points. So it basically eliminates the lock, freeze, all day thing, so it's just a multi-ball all day. Yeah. And it really forces a player to decide when they want to use that award and when it's worth it to them. um it also works with the home roms the patch so you can have like the home rom that have the swearing and stuff in it which is just kind of fun nice and it allows you to take that rom and it's always been permanently on free play and it allows you to set it to coin drop so it works like perfect for my location oh wow but i've enjoyed um i've enjoyed that game a lot because i used to have one at main street amusements and while i didn't learn all the rules i've learned like how to keep playing multiball and you knew it decently well but with this new code update it really actually puts you into some interesting uh predicaments as a player and player choice because like i don't want to use a lot of reason my first multiball because i only need to hit one freeze to get it um and that's pretty easy to get that one started now the second multiball that's the multiball where every shot is lit for a jackpot yeah so if i were to start it you need two lock freezes, which again, isn't super hard to do. Um, but because that one will let you, uh, hit jackpots basically everywhere. You can actually, as a player, choose to shoot for the five white or yellow standup targets, wherever they are and earn more lock freezes. So you can conceivably make that multi-ball or five ball multi-ball as a player. If you choose to take your aim at those targets yeah um meanwhile still working your way through the claw awards at the same time and that's kind of what my strategy has been and i got that built up to a five ball multi-ball the other day and i ended up scoring like two point something billion points just in that multi-ball wow because everything was lit and i had five balls going yeah yeah um that made it very fun and then when i get to the third and fourth multi-ball and i forget the names of them but that's where I start to get tempted to use my lock freeze but I had literally never seen demolition time before because I had always played for just lock freeze and multi-ball yes um I've got to demo time like five times now and it's a really cool wizard mode um the game has a lot of features that were previously ignored essentially because of a rule exploit and this ROM really fixes that it also de-randomizes it gives you two choices for the computer awards either a set order or it can be set to random, but it'll be the same for every player in that multiplayer game. Right. And I've set mine to that because I kind of like still having some randomness in my pinball, but having it be fair to the players. Yeah. So that's down there. I literally had to run to the bar right before we were recording because I left my, I plugged my power adapter for my computer down there on Sunday, and I went in, and it's one of the local guys' birthdays, and there was about 12 people in there playing pinball, and there was people on Demoman, Iron Maiden, and Jurassic Park. Like, those were the games they were playing in there. So that was cool to see, and it's cool to see new players learn Demoman and learn how to use the buttons versus using the triggers. Yeah. That's just a fun feature. That's weird, man. I still can't do that. Like, I try it. I always try it, but then I always go back. Like, it just does something. I don't know. I literally cannot play Demoman with the flipper buttons. Oh, really? I have to play with the triggers, yeah. It just feels real weird for me to not use the triggers. And that increases your scorings, right? It gives you, you get trigger combo points. So basically any combo you hit, it kind of doubles the value of the combos. Gotcha, gotcha. So if you have a really good ball, it could end up being, you know, say you hit 30 combos, and that gets multiplied by your bonus multiplier. So it could be $150 million added to your bonus. Yeah, solid. But, yeah, I strongly recommend that for anyone out there who has a demolition time. Look into getting the Soarin' ROM. It's been posted to both Pinside and Tilt Forums. It's available on there. Burn a ROM for yourself or find someone to burn it for you because it really makes the game a lot of fun. I've been playing that a ton down there. Yeah, Soren did the ROM update for Roller Games, which I used in the tournament. Yeah, he's done quite a few games now, honestly. I know Creature was done. The Getaway was done. A few others through over the years. He just seems to kind of, I know Mousin Around was one of the more recent ones he did, too. He does a really good job of not changing a lot, but really fine-tuning them, largely specifically for competition play. He really does try to weed out the real, real, real issues. Yeah. Yeah, like you're saying, like there's stuff where he's just like, you know what, that might be something that annoys people, but it's not like it doesn't kill it. You know what I mean? like there's no real reason to go in and like tweak everything. I don't know if he has like a PayPal or something. Does he have like a way like you can kick him money for doing all this work? I've never seen him ask for anything. I've never seen him do that. Yeah. I think he's just a good dude, man. Again, the pinball hobby is full of those people. Somebody should do a GoFundMe for him. They should. Those GoFundMes go well. They don't. No. Well, no. Maybe they do. So a lot of them do. Sometimes they don't go very well. All right. It has some loopholes. So Jurassic Park. Yes. You have now had that game for a while. Yeah, I think August-ish, September maybe. So what do you think? Are you still playing it? Yeah, I play the shit out of it. I still think Iron Maiden is just a little bit better. Why? It's just got the polish to it, and I just think Jurassic Park will get there and it will surpass it. So you think on so code you think that Maiden is a better game What about layout I think the layout on Jurassic Park is more unique and I enjoy it I think that Maiden strongly benefited from the years of development cycle it had as Archer when Keith was building it on his own, and I think it is slightly smoother shooting. It's a simple layout. yeah but man if you hit that upper loop to the side ramp the tower ramp combo on Jurassic Park yeah like dude that that shot feels like so one of my favorite things is right flipper shoot it up the middle through the spinner yep upper right flipper loop yeah upper right flipper tower left flipper to the right ramp like it's a four shot combo and it like hitting it just feels so good and with those metal ramps with the sound the ball makes yeah and like i think that's one of the things like i've recently maybe not started to recognize but just understand that i appreciate so much the sounds that a machine provides yeah um and there just is a difference in sound between a ball rolling on the metal ramp uh or down a wire form than it is when you hit a plastic ramp and it makes you feel something. So I don't know. But, yeah, the uniqueness, there's like a unique simplicity because, like, the whole game is still based around that kinetic captive ball and the truck in the middle, which seems like such a simple idea, but it still feels so good to shoot and it's so well integrated to the rules. And then the whole, what is it, Escape Noobler Island mini wizard mode, like mini game that Keith kind of unveiled this weekend. And I know Jax Changers streamed it yesterday. I haven't even got to watch it yet. I just read Keith's description and it sounds amazing. Like I'm so excited to try that out. But it's a wizard mode that you actually have to reach or is it just a mini game? I know. So I, that's where I'm confused because I know with Ghostbusters, it's like, are you a God now? It has that setting where you can just do it. so basically what this sounds like is is similar it almost reminds me of a super game on judge shred yeah um but you put your credits into the machine he says and i think you hold the left flipper and it will basically pop up on the screen like oh do you want to play escape from new bar or uh the regular game or whatever and you press start and it sounds like it's so it's got a its own high scoreboard for initials just for that mode as well as a timed aspect to it because you're trying to get off the island as quick as you can and rescue as many people as you can in the process right and the rules sound like super complex and that was the other thing was like i look at that and i look at what stranger things has to offer me at this point and i'm like yeah like these games aren't comparable um it's just awesome man i don't even know how else to describe And I started going through – I actually asked my tech guy at school if he could unblock Tilt Forms for me when I was getting ready for the state tournament because we were going to be using a Game of Thrones Pro. And I know that that game a lot of times will get modified and it's set up for tournaments. So I wanted to kind of go through and see what people were recommending there as far as the settings went. Anyway, they have left it unblocked for me. So I was reading through the Jurassic Park rule sheet on there. And there's just, like, lots of little things that I didn't fully know or understand and that are really interesting. And then the whole, like, I don't know if you saw, oh, man, young kid who won the world championship. Escher. Blow up Batman 66. Yeah, what the fuck, dude? He had, like, 26 billion points or something? No, no, like 340-something billion. 300, 400. 400 billion. And he was still on ball one from my understanding. Yeah, and that was like, okay, is there an exploit or is there just like a certain way that is really, I mean, he's obviously still playing really good, but there's a certain path you need to take through that game and like the villains versus like the TV character episodes and the bonus rewards. So that kind of intrigued me. And I think Jurassic Park is still at this point yet where like, because it's still changing in code and still people are learning it, nobody's figured out like, what's the best path through the island? Like, it's very, very specific. Like, if you want to just have, like, the best score ever, do you need to go, like, left, left, center, right, center, right, left, left to get all the way through, and those dinosaurs give you the best perks? Or is the code so well done that those best perks, based on the dinosaurs, really depend on you as a player and what shots you're most comfortable hitting on the play field. Man. Like, there's just so much in it as far as rules and depth go. I think it's deeper than Iron Maiden. I think it's going to have a – And again, I like the theme more. We've talked about it before. Dinosaurs are fucking cool. Iron Maiden is fucking cool to some people. But again, stepping up to that game, tying this back into what we said earlier, I don't know who or what I am when I play Stranger Things. Even when I'm playing Iron Maiden, I understand that I'm in the universe of Eddie, and I'm battling Eddie. Right. Whatever my character may be, that's what I'm doing. I have a mission and a goal. Yeah. I get that. It's just, and again, Jurassic Park absolutely benefits from the fact that Keith is a world, not a world, he is the best player in the world. And his mind thinks about rules in a very unique way. I did, someone told me I didn't see it, but out at InDisc, I guess he took fourth on a four-player game on his own game, Jurassic Park, near the finals or something. Somebody was telling me about that. and I think that's interesting as well. I don't know, man. It's an amazing game. It just really is. Like, I have so much fun playing it. I was literally talking to our other buddy, Phil Grabaldi, this past weekend, and he was basically debating between getting a Jurassic Park or a Creature from the Black Lagoon, and a Creature from the Black Lagoon happened to pop up for sale near me. So he was talking about that, and we were just like debating the pros and cons over it with each other. And then Keith made that post about this escape from Noobler mode. And you were like, done. Yeah, that's literally what it said. Phil was like, oh, I guess that makes my mind up because it's just that cool that someone has that sort of dedication to the game they've made and putting unique features in it. It's awesome. It really just is. Is there anything past Visitor Center at this point? Not to my knowledge. I don't think it's been updated for a while. Okay. what is that? Is that you? Yeah, my... You got a map going? No, I don't know. I turned my phone on. Oh, series. Gotcha. I don't know what... But, yeah, man, I would have a lot of trouble getting rid of Jurassic Park. Even my players that are not as skilled, because there's some very difficult shots on that game. Yeah, everyone can make the left ramp. Everyone can kind of bash up the raptor pit. but hitting that upper loop and those side ramps, it takes some practice. Everyone down there seems to love that game, even without the full depth of rule knowledge. And you can really blow that game up just by playing the computer room modes or the T-Rex modes. The play field multiplier is only a 2X, and you can get that. And it's just, man, it's fun. I think for me, I really like it. I really like Jurassic Park. The Collective has one. I have the GC on it. I've gone to Visitor Center. I got into there one time, and I thought that mode itself was really cool. Yeah. Oh, I really like Jurassic Park. I mean, like, if I was like, I need to go buy a game today, you're forcing me to buy a game today, I would go get that. I'm right there with you. I think the depth of the game. I mean, I'm not a rules guy like you are. Like, not that I don't enjoy the nuance of rules. I just don't know them as well, you know. But what's there. But that's not true because, like, some games. I know. I think you know Maiden's rules far better than I do. I know some rules. Yeah, I do know rules. But those are the games, like, I have games in my basement for a long time. You know, like, I hold on to games where I do get the nuance. of them. Hey, you want me to teach you the Stranger Things rules? Shoot the stand-up target and start multi-ball. Boom! You did it, Taylor. No, but that's what intrigues me about a game like Jurassic Park, is going out and playing it at the collective and having big games and having fun playing it, but I'm not really figuring out the rules like I would if I had it in my basement for 10 years, which I, that's how long I hold on to games. That's why, that's one of the reasons why I want to get it. The one thing that I don't love is I don't love the pop bumper nest. And I know that, you know, I, I've tried to talk myself into loving it. Like the whole, like the Jeep is blocking it when you have the smart missile. Oh yeah. Like, that drives me nuts because I don't know that the Jeep is blocking it. I guess my thing is, I guess you've got to be paying attention to set up before you shoot your smart missile. But how do you know if the smart missile is qualified? Left in lane. There's a blue light. That's all it does. So if the blue light is on, you have a smart missile. Okay. So hit the Jeep. I guess I think that's the thing is like that's the kind of thing I don't know to see that. I mean, I would still say 50% of the time. No, I'd say like 80% of the time I'm not paying attention to it, and I don't realize it, and the Jeep will almost always end up being blocking it. Right. But on those occasions where you do notice you have it, and then you see the Jeep blocking it, and you take it out, it feels really good. Do you feel like the play field is giving you the information you need as a player to know what to shoot at? And it definitely gives you a call out when your smart missile is ready. Right, but that's a smart missile. A smart missile is its own thing. But in general, do you feel like the play field is giving you the information you need to play the game? I do. I feel like at the same time it's just giving you a lot of information, so it takes a while to adapt and take it all in. But, you know, I think about Metallica, right? The Metallica rules are such, they're so nuanced that there's this stuff that you would never know to, like, start your, and maybe I'm wrong, but, like, I know, like, there's certain stuff, like, if you hit certain things, it'll light 2X, right? And then you shoot the snake's mouth or something like that, like if you're in a multiball. Am I wrong about that? Yeah. I mean, so there's four stand-up targets during multiball. The guitar picks, they're in front of the inline drops and the right ramp. You shoot those, and it lights the snake for a 2X for 20 seconds. But there's not really something that's telling you that that's going to happen, is there? Like, is there a 2X insert or anything? I think it's all on the DMD, as far as I can recall. But, like, so you remember when you borrowed your buddy's Iron Maiden for a while? Yeah. And, like, for a month you played it and learned it and destroyed it. Iron Man. Iron Man, sorry. I think if you borrowed Metallica from someone for a month, you would learn it in two weeks. Yeah. It's not that complex of a game. No, I mean, I've blown up Metallica, but there's just nuances to them. I mean, that's just like Batman 66. How did somebody put up 400 billion points? I literally started reading the thread on Batman 66 and the rules, and there's, like, so much I just did not realize at all. Like, I didn't realize you could shoot the Commissioner Gordon target and it lights your shot multipliers, and whichever one you shoot next is going to be multiplied. I didn't realize you can actually multiply the same shot like I never even thought to try it because of the fact that like I'm like I already multiplied that shot I'll multiply something else yeah and so if you multiply like say the penguin scoop uh one time it'll be like it'll that insert will be doing a quick one flash but if you uh hit it again and again it'll be doing like three flashes telling you that shot's multiplied three times I had no idea until I read that in the rule sheet that's where you collect your super jackpots so I'm like well no wonder some dudes are probably building that shot up to have these huge multipliers yeah and now i know that um i will give batman 66 a ton of credit and that like i've been popping over to main street because we for like from december through pretty much all of january i guess until the last weekend we got busy again but the bars are really slow because everyone's broke from christmas and nobody's gotten their tax money back yet so i had some slow nights so i'd pop over there and i was just jumping on Batman and like just really appreciating how much there is to that game and like the pricing still sucks on it don't get me wrong yeah um but like pricing is fucking ridiculous dude that game is there's so much in that game there's a lot of fun um speaking of like learning shit you didn't know I don't know if you saw uh Bowen put out a tutorial this past week for Stern Beatles and I learned a ton and it's awesome and it was cool because he got to a mode he had never been in while playing and he was like oh i don't know what i'm doing here and it's kind of funny to see bowen in that situation too um but that's another game where like every time i play i have fun with my stranger things thing like hey if someone's trying to get rid of the beatles oh i saw that yeah that fucking artwork package though oh man not my favorite yeah not my favorite but it's fun so we'll see um speaking of fun speaking of fun elvira what do you think of Vyra. I really like it. See, that's one I just don't know yet. Dan has it, and I know how to start with the multi-balls, and I know how to start with the modes, but when the modes are lit, I'm just shooting the colored inserts, and I don't have an appreciation at this point of... I just don't have an appreciation for it yet at this point, but I don't think it's bad or anything like that. I know DW, right? Didn't he get one? That's how I talked to him the other day, and he was saying he had traded for one and ended up with it, and he was really enjoying it. And him and I seem to have similar tastes in games most of the time. So he's one of those ones where, like, I'm sure I'll appreciate it. And like I said, like, Batman wasn't very fun at first, but with Lyman on code, you kind of have a lot of faith. So if he's on Elvira, I'm just sure it's going to end up really good. One of the cool things that it took me a few games to realize is that the house toy, the haunted house, mansion, her place, whatever it is, the way it's lit it's really cool but each window that lights up that's whatever mode it is but that's one like where you were talking about like is that information there like okay well the top right window is lit I don't know what mode that is I just know it coordinates to something and like over time you'd learn it I'm sure I don't know what moves which room is lit I don't know if it's a pop up or a spinner little things like that I think it's just one of those things I think Jurassic Park is very deep. And as a casual player, I mean, I don't know if that makes sense. You're not. I'm not a casual player, but I have not played that game a ton, but when I have played it, I've done pretty well. I can shoot that game. Oh yeah, the shots just feel good. I really like the shots, and it took me a while to hit that upper left ramp, the like, the tower one. yeah last time once you dial it in man dude last time i played it i was hitting it like i was doing the combos not not as deep of a combo as you were talking about but i was i was comboing it into it yeah and i was like oh yeah but i didn't i wasn't exactly sure what that was doing like it seems like it's a really tough shot so it seems like there should be value to it at some point there is and i don't know what they are it just displays them on the screen for you yeah but it'll say like two tower hits, three more to $15 million, or six tower hits, two more to whatever the next award is. There's its own separate awards just for that shot. Yeah, and I think, going back to comparing Maiden to Jurassic Park, I think Maiden is interesting because of its simplicity. The layout is really simple. And I have a pro. You have a pro as well, right? Yes. And obviously the LE and the premiums are more complicated. But the Pro is just super simple. It's almost like a solid state with some ramps. And I don't know, man. You got four flippers on that thing, upper loops, bow in both directions. It's a pretty complex layout. Yeah, but it's pretty flat. I mean, I'm not saying the layout's not complex. It's just a relatively flat game. like I think about you got three ramps man you got center ramp left ramp right ramp and the center ramp is just that's not really oh it's a ramp man okay it's a ramp as much as the far right helicopter it's a very it's a simple I'm not I'm not look I'm saying that it's a simple layout in the fact that I think that because they had so much time to spend on the game yeah that they spent so much time on the game that they really dialed down to like a really clean, simple layout, right? I think the geometry is, like, virtually perfect. It's so good. I mean, it really is. That's the part I think. Yeah. And if you remember when that came out, Keith came in thinking he wasn't going to have to change anything on his archer layout. And I remember he specifically talked about Gomez, you know, recommended altering some sort of trajectory or path of the left ramp. Yeah. And, you know, he tried it, and he was like, yeah, Gomez is right. He knows what he's talking about. But, again, they had a lot of it there to start with, and it was done over a very long period of time, which, again, great artwork takes time for the most part. That's a good and normal thing. So the more time these designers get, I'm sure the better off things will be. Yeah, I need to get a Jurassic Park. that's like that's one of those things like i can literally picture you having drastic park and me waking up for school at 5 a.m and just having text messages from you at like 4 a.m being like i just fucking did this i really won't believe what i just did i know i really need to get a drastic part yeah i think you'll enjoy it it's one of the things to what i'm like i'm just sold on keith as a designer and rules layout designer rules designer everything like if keith has a game coming out, it would have to be like an incredibly terrible theme for me to not probably want to jump on it. I think that he could make, I think, I didn't have, I think a terrible theme, Raven, Raven, Raven is actually pretty enjoyable. Raven's a fun game to shoot. Raven is a really fun game. I don't care about the theme. That was my point. No, the theme's awful, the artwork's awful. Raven. The layout and some of the stuff in that game is pretty awful. It's actually pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I think it would have to be like an objectionable theme, you know? Like it would have to be like one of those scenes where you're like, eh. My Little Pony. Eh, I mean, I think it's just like there's certain games that I – I'm in for My Little Pony. Yeah. I learned all about My Little Pony this summer I worked at. The year I worked at the Autism Center. Okay. Why? Yeah. One of my girls was obsessed with it. Oh, okay. That was like one of the things she could work towards was getting to watch like five minutes of My Little Pony. Nice. So I learned all about Twilight Sparkle and Pinkie Pie. Those were her favorite too. So your impression of the Stranger Things LE streams that you've seen? I saw roughly two minutes of it. That's about it. I do think that it's really cool. they are incorporating new technology into the machine. I think that's great that they're experimenting with that. Personally, that's one of those things where without seeing that in person, I just don't trust it. So I was thinking about this. We just entered a new decade. I think this last decade had roughly 45 to 50 pinball machines released, actually. And obviously tons of new companies came in. and it's been a really interesting decade for the history of pinball. But if you look at what CERN is doing, I think that's some of the newest technology we've seen in a machine since I'd say Wizard of Oz came along and made everything RGB and an LCD screen. Like that was a huge transition for pinball, and now pretty much every machine has RGB stuff in it. Now, with that being said, it made a big change in how pinball machines were designed and the materials that went inside of them. But if you remember, and I can't remember if yours was one of them, a lot of those Wizard Oz machines had issues with the light boards. What? No. No. No. They did. Oh, what? What I'm saying is, like, while they pushed boundaries, it wasn't necessarily ready to be pushed that far. And they did release the light kit 2.0, and they updated it. It was a design flaw, et cetera, et cetera. But all I'm seeing is essentially that this could happen with the projector, and it could have issues. Or, again, I know people have been really concerned about the whiting atmosphere around a game like that to make a projector work, because projectors work in the dark. What? In my mind, it's hard to have a projector work well in a small area that is pretty brightly lit by a bunch of LED lights. That being said, everyone who I've talked to who's had one or seen one in person says it looks pretty good in person. And I think, again, it has a lot of potential to be cool. But I definitely didn't want to pay premium prices for an updated Attack from Mars layout on a game that I'm disappointed in. So I look forward to trying one out because I do want to see how it looks. I'm sure there will be some at Texas Pinball Festival if I don't stumble upon one somewhere local before that. but um yeah it's i just don't trust it i mean that's that's it i think it's again cool very cool they're trying it it's a cool idea i i yeah from what i've seen in streams i watched i watched um i watched dead flip stream it when they did it and like when they did it they made a point to show how bright the room was that they were filming. Yeah. Now, I'm not trying to be conspiracy guy, but I do. But you just are naturally. But I have to say, I do think that they did turn the lights down. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, please. I will. But there was a point where, so at the beginning of it, they're all standing around. They're like, look, the room is really bright. They show the room. Um, then at another point they go look at the room or Jack was like, Hey, look at the room. And you look and you're like, man, it really looks like they kind of turned the lights down. Now I'm not trying to be a conspiracy person, but it seems like the lights have been turned down. So I'm just saying. You're not trying guys. Guys, Taylor's not trying to be a conspiracy person. I am. She is one. But I thought some of the effects looked pretty cool. Like the spinner looked really cool. Like there was a projection on the spinner. The drop targets had projections on them. Yeah, that was cool. Yeah. Especially like some of the animated ones. Like there's definitely some cool stuff they can do with that. The ones that I did not like, or from what I could tell, was the ramps looked like they were really not showing much of anything. Well, it's weird how, like, almost all projection will occur, you know, like, let's say, on a vertical surface that the white could project on, and those are pretty much horizontal because they're ramps. But so here's another thing, though. Like, the way that they use it on the main, like, board, right, like the main building, they just use it as like a movie screen yeah like I don't like that like I would much rather it be animations or something that actually has to do with the design of the play field or even the pro I mean the pro it's like the idea is like you're breaking into that building so it looks like a building like why not do that with the animations like that are being Oh, they do. Oh, they do. Okay. The other parts where it's animated and it looks like what's on the plastic of the Pro. Okay. But the sky itself is actually animated. So there's like lightning effects going on. Oh, that's cool. That's pretty cool looking. That's cool. I think most of what I've seen, like I remember like L driving around. Yeah, the wall with the letters and yeah. Yeah. A lot of the stuff that's used or a lot of the stuff that's displayed on the LCD of the pro model um is on that screen but there's a lot of custom stuff as well and i'm sure there's going to end up with uh more and more content coming for that all right i'll end up it'll end up being all right you know um this is totally like random uh taylor somewhat off topic that's what we do so i i just logged into anchor fm yeah that's uh where we're now hosted i wanted to go to our actual website out there listeners uh it's anchor.fm slash this flipping podcast again we're also available on nine other platforms no for you and me taylor it's kind of cool because i logged in and it shows us a tree geographic locations of our listeners this is one of the reasons i was what somebody helped steer me towards this platform uh so i'm gonna give a shout out to anchor but uh we're we've been listening to just i sent out like a little 30 second preview last week saying we're coming back soon because we've been trying to get this scheduled for a while. Yeah. We knew we were going to make it work now. Yes. We've got listeners in the United States. Nice Australia Of course Canada United Kingdom What Sweden No England The Netherlands Austria Puerto Rico United Arab Emirates and Denmark And it actually shows us the percentage of our listeners that come from there and stuff. It's kind of cool. So anyway, anyone else out there who's listening and does a podcast, which is most of the people in pinball nowadays, you might want to check out Anchor. This is pretty neat stuff that they have on here. So speaking of podcasts, are you leaving this podcast to join another podcast on a podcast network? I did a guest spot on a podcast last week. Did you really? What were you on? I did, but it's not, to my knowledge, part of the Pinball Network. Okay. I did a guest spot with George and Dave of the Classic Pinball Podcast, and they had emailed me. George is a listener of our show and he was actually incredibly kind in thanking me for coming on. He basically said, without you and me doing our show, he didn't think him and Dave would have ever taken the step to start their own show. We lowered the bar so low that we were like nobody was intimidated. Everyone was like, God, if those two fucking idiots are here, we can definitely do this. That's when the flood started. But George has emailed us for years now and we've We've had a correspondence back and forth, and he's huge into the classic ballets and stuff as well as Dave. And that's what their show is focused on. They were doing an episode dedicated to Fathom, and they wanted to bring me on to discuss that since it's obviously one of my all-time favorite games, and I have an incredibly nice one. And what we thought would be like their episodes are not like ours. They tend to be much shorter. They're not marathon podcasters. We thought it would be like a 20- to 30-minute conversation, and as I do, I tend to ramble, and we ended up talking for like an hour and 20 or something. Ah, you messed them up. Well, they ended up releasing it in two parts, but I just wanted to give them a shout-out. Again, if you haven't checked out the Classic Pinball Podcast and you really enjoy Classic Valley and Stern games, that's what they largely focus on. Check them out. And at the same time, part of what they split off onto was the discussion of we brought up my Lady Death Geiger playfield as well as the other playfield kits. I have acquired from Germany. And I don't know if you and I ever even got to talking about that on the show or not. I don't know if we have. I can't remember. I know we know a bit about it. But if we won't do it here, if you want to hear that story, jump on over to the Classic Pinball Podcast. Check them out. And there's a 15, 20-minute episode on just the Lady Death and the German kits and what they are and their word, a little bit of their history. And then there's about an hour-long episode that focuses largely on Fathom and some of the other games in my collection. Back to your initial point, I am not leaving for the Pinball Network. I would struggle to leave this show. I thoroughly enjoy our partnership and friendship and what we do. And if you died because you're turning 48 and getting old and you know you're eating healthy, I would try to carry on the show without you. but I doubt I'd have a whole lot of desire because I look forward to our conversations, man. Hey, thanks. It's fun sharing the hobby with you. Well, I am leaving the show to join the podcast network. I knew you were going to do this. Yeah, no, I'm not. Nobody asked me. Yeah, I don't think we're the type of people that get asked to do that stuff. We don't get asked. I don't get it. That's okay. I think we were supposed to send in applications. I don't know what's happening. I don't know what happened. Like, have you ever been invited to do a, I don't know what it is, why we're not part of the, not that we're not a part of the podcast network, but we're not part of the podcast scene. And I don't know what happened. Like, what? This is my first episode in three months. I mean, that's hard. I know, but still, like, what happened? Like there is like because if OK, so here's my whole thing. This is something I just think is interesting about a lot of the pinball podcast is that a lot of the pinball podcast people would appear. They would appear on each other's shows. Now, I've been I mean, you've been on other podcast shows. I've been on other podcasts. but there's like a group of podcasts where it almost seems like every week like a different podcaster is on the podcast. So you always have like this rotating group of podcasters. Yeah, yeah. I think that was part of their motivation for just forming like a formal sort of network thing. But why do that if they're already doing it? I don't know. Yeah. I haven't paid a lot of attention to it to be really honest because I just kind of don't care. yeah um i have no problem with it as far as i'm concerned it's whatever i don't care i don't care either i mean i just yeah i'm just i'm i i'm sure you're always asking why they do is like i listen to i know i mentioned last time like i don't listen to a ton of pinball stuff anymore yeah i'm just very busy and i we've kind of fallen into like what our roles are within the hobby and me operating and collecting and trying to learn more restoration stuff yeah etc but um i I listen to a lot of wrestling podcasts, and I know I listen to Talk is Jericho. It's done by Chris Jericho, current AEW world champion, one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Wrestling tank. He's been podcasting for years. Yeah. And at one point, they were part of, like, the Westwood One podcast network, and then eventually became, like, the Jericho network. And, you know, he has his show, but his network also features shows hosted by a bunch of other wrestlers who have their own show. Right. And I don't know if it just helps with download numbers for everyone, if it reduces hosting costs for everyone, if it makes it more profitable for everyone because they get more downloads that way and then they can sell more ads. Everyone's sort of bumping or, you know, giving everyone the rub, as they call it in wrestling, you know, promoting for each other. I don't really know. But one of the reasons I did stop listening to podcasts was a lot of them, we all cover similar things. Yeah. And they didn't sound very different. So I kind of lost interest in listening to any specific one because we just kind of generally got it. And then This Week in Pinball did a great job of summarizing anything major that had happened in, like, their weekly update, which really, you know, we have idiots like you and me who are out here podcasting for three hours every once in a while. And I could listen to all that and hear about the new diets we're on and whatnot. or I could go to This Week in Pinball and read for 10 minutes and get the gist of most of what was going on in the hobby. Whatever, man. You know what? Yeah. That's like, you know, you got to go long for them. You can't just read these little synopses of what happened. I mean, I can. Now I'm still going to come on here and talk with you and banter and enjoy our involvement and roles within pinball. and, you know, I'm glad I had someone to vent to about my hatred of Stranger Things. God damn, you do not like that game. I don't. I don't. I feel a little better getting it off my chest. Yeah, like I do. I feel like a little sense of relief having talked about this. So that's good. That's good. That's mentally healthy for me, man. What else are you selling? Are you selling any other games or just Stranger Things? I've got the America's Most Haunted that we've had on location since last, like, April or May. That's my buddy Marks, but he's looking to sell that because he bought an X-Men Pro and a Walking Dead Pro that he wants to move into the bar. So we're just kind of trying to free up space. I really like that game. I'm tempted to, if I sell Stranger Things, just buy that and keep it there. But we'll see. We'll see. But that's for sale. I traded my Brom Stoker's Dracula for the Demoman. and the guy really wanted a Dracula. Mine was not in super great shape. I mean, it played 100%, but it wasn't cosmetically like, it wasn't winning any beauty pageant anytime soon. But, you know, sent each other a lot of pictures and he ended up driving down with a friend from Michigan, bringing me the Demoman. And I think we were both really happy with the trade. So that worked out well. I haven't done a ton of trading throughout my years in the hobby, but it's nice to occasionally do one of those. And you guys did a straight trade or was it money, We just did a straight trade. His demo man was really nice. He was doing all the driving, which was roughly like eight to ten hours of driving. And I probably could have maybe asked for a little money. But to me, like, I mean, I had like a little chip on the play field at one spot. The typical insert wear on Dracula in the cabinet. Somebody had done the red Sharpie trick on the side. So it looked decent. But, you know, it's not right. And that was it. And basically, I got into the Dracula pretty cheap. So it wasn't like I felt like I was getting screwed or anything. And the demo man, like, he's a guy who enjoys the working on the machine side of things, as he explained to me. He likes getting in there and chopping them out and making them look really good. Yeah. So he didn't mind that part about Dracula. And it was funny because he was kind of like, the demo man's not great. You know, it's nothing special. They have, for some reason, someone put Sega flipper bats in it. So it's got Sonic on the flippers. And, you know, he's saying all this stuff. And he gets to me. And it's, like, it's literally one of the nicest demo men I've ever seen. Yeah. Like, it's got, like, a tiny little spot of flipper wear above the left flipper, I think. Or it might even be, like, higher than that. Like, it's just a little bit of wear around the insert. But the game, like, the ramps look great. The play field's super clean. The cabinet's incredibly nice. He had the handles re-chromed. Oh, man. So, I mean, yeah, I was super happy with it. And you were going to ask for money? I mean, if you look, demo man's, like, listed at, like, $2,500 up inside. And Brom Strokers Dracula is like $3,500. That's fucking crazy. Yeah. And I agree. Like, why? I don't think either one is that much better than the other. But I think Demoman has the negative tournament reputation because of the old ROMs and the issues with the claw. And I think Brom Strokers is like a highly regarded tournament game, which is weird because it still has a lot of bugs in it, actually. Yeah. And it tends to fuck up a lot. Yeah. That was actually part of my concern is, like, I was scared every time I was hosting a tournament and we were using Dracula that something was going to happen. Yeah. Like, every time I'm like, please don't have some weird ruling I have to make on this game. And I felt way more comfortable getting rid of that and having Devilman there. Yeah, I mean, I love Dracula. I had a beautiful one that I sold to a friend of mine. I mean, fear-coded play field. It was a beauty, but, man, like, I don't know. The prices are crazy. Yeah, I mean, prices and everything are a little bit crazy. So, and to be fair, like, the price you're paying for a Stranger Things or a Jurassic Park, it's honestly still, like, the best, you know, just deal in pinball as far as, like, buying a new game. Yeah. It's really hard to beat what Stern offers. And, again, like, I know I, like, went off on Stranger Things, but I totally get how a lot of people are going to like that game. So, you know, if you don't be like, oh, Tommy fucking hated that, I'm never going to play it. Like, go out and play it. You might really enjoy the game. It's just, it's what that series is to me, and it's not in the machine. I've heard a lot of complaints about Stranger Things. Yeah, I won't lie. The players at my bar don't really seem to like it. Like, that was part of it, too. Like, it's earned decently, but it's because it's the new game. Like, everyone's going to try it out, and I expect that to drop off pretty harshly, pretty quickly. That's, you know, that's just what it is. oddly enough, Mark has a Monopoly down at the bar. That thing earns like a fucking champ. Oh, really? I don't understand it. Like, Monopoly is like just right behind Iron Maiden and Jurassic Park like every week. Huh. I'm like, how is this happening? Monopoly, man. That game is awesome. Pat Lawler's best. Maybe I wouldn't go that far. But, you know, it's interesting to see what earns. And it's like, it's been super consistent. It's like a super friendly theme, right? Yeah. And the, like, multi-ball is easy. It's such a weird layout, though, man. That weird Lawler fucking pop bumper nest all over the place. Like, what the fuck? That's six pop bumpers, right? Yeah. Yeah, you don't get that nowadays. He's the wacky designer. Hey, man, he's got some stuff out there. What do you think he's, what's he working on now? I have no idea. I think Toy Story has been, like, the long rumor, so. Oh, Toy Story 20, by the time it comes out? Hey, man. But I bet that includes shit from all the fucking movies, man. I don't know. I don't know. What about Jurassic? What about Pirates? Does that have all the movies in it? Yeah. Oh, it does? Yeah. That's why those games cost $20,000 now. Yeah, well, something like that. Pirates. What are you looking forward to in the next month? uh honestly like so i love coaching wrestling yeah um but the season is really long like i am i am so looking forward to the state finals and coming home um and at the same time like i don't know if it's like i'm getting older and i'm just more emotional or like i got older it got less emotional yeah well it's like it's just like odd It's not odd things even. It's just different things make me feel different. And – shut up. I know what I meant. So, like, a year ago, a little over a year ago, the guy who I consider, like, my wrestling coach that I was super close to, his father passed away. Oh, yeah. Who was also one of our coaches. Yeah. And it made me really appreciate, like, everything he taught me, all the time he spent with me. And now to realize, like, I just realized, like, literally just this week, I realized, like, holy cow, I've been coaching for 12 years. Yeah, that's crazy. Like, at the high school level, I was both, like, an assistant and a head coach. Yeah. And there's things that, like, I've seen my wrestlers do that I can look back and be like, oh, man, I remember when Hutch taught me that. Like, and now this kid's doing it. So you see, like, this chain. Like, I'm sure it's, like, a lot like raising kids, but I don't have kids. Like, you know, the wrestlers are my kids. Yeah, yeah. So I see him do these things, and it's like, oh, man. And then, like, this past weekend, I had a freshman. He's wrestling up a little bit. He's small for the weight class, and he's wrestling at, like, 182. It's a bigger weight class. You know, so he's hitting a lot of seniors, and he's had kind of a rough year. And he lost the first round at the tournament on Saturday. But, you know, if you go through wrestlebacks, you could still come back and get third in advanced to regionals. And, like, he came off the mat. He got pinned in the first one. I was just like, I quit. I suck. Like, I suck every match. I'm not doing this anymore. and I had to, like, kind of get on his case about it. Like, you don't suck. And I just, you know, so I was like, dude, I spend two days a week in the room working with you. And, like, I wouldn't do that if I didn't see potential in you. Yeah. You know, like, I wouldn't waste my time. Like, work around that room. There's some kids that I don't spend that time with. I'm picking you because I see what you could do. You know, and he goes out there and he ends up beating the next kid. And then he wins the next match in overtime against the senior. Like, super close. And then he gets paired up with that kid who pinned him in the first round to go for third, and he beats them eight to four. And it was like that kid was so happy at the end of the day. And he was like, I didn't quit. I did what you told me, you know. And, like, just to see that, it's like, ah, I can't quit coaching. So, like, as much as, like, I'm tired and, like, the season's kind of worn me down and I'm like, oh, man, I'd like to just get some more rest. Like, those moments, it's like, ah, what if I'm not there for that kid? Like, what happens to that kid's day? Yeah. And it's not the reality. Like, we have a really good coaching staff. There's other coaches that would be there. But, like, I don't know. I want to make sure I'm there because there was people that were there for me, if that makes sense. Yeah, man, that makes sense. Absolutely. So it's just, yeah, it's that. Like, I'm ready for the season to be over, but I'm really excited because we could take, like, as many as five to six kids to state this year. That would be awesome. Which would be, like, a school record. We got a really good young group that are just pushing themselves, and it's fun. And then it's kind of cool, too, because, like, they know there's, like, I didn't go to one tournament on Saturday when they had the state championships, And those kids, like, I come in, like, how'd you do, coach? You know, did you win? Did you win the pinballs? Yeah, yeah. You know, they check on me, too. So that sort of thing is nice. That's awesome. Yeah, but I'm looking forward to that being done. And then I have, like, just built up this stash of projects that I really want to get to. I'm looking forward to summer for that, specifically when I have, like, nothing to do. But I want to at least start on something here in the spring. I want to wrap up Frontier because it's really close, but it's not done. And then I have to decide. I've got a playfield ready to go for Skateball. My Suntar playfield is almost done. I'm getting clear-coded by Ron Kruseman. And I also have the two crazy projects. I actually just got a Quicksilver playfield. And I've had the Stargazer playfield. And those are basically turning into scratch builds. And I have pretty much everything for them except for the Backglass for Quicksilver. I'm still waiting on... So I've got these things that I want to do, and that's kind of like a little bit of where my focus has changed. My games at home haven't changed in like a year for the most part, except I added in The Strange World, which I really still enjoy. I played that before we started recording tonight. But I want to get some of these projects done and have them looking good. I'm taking a bunch of play fields with me, Geiger Space Rider play fields to the Texas Pinball Festival. So if anyone's looking for a unique piece of pinball history or artwork or you have a blown out Harlem Globetrotters and you want to do something fun with it, I've got like 15 or 16 play fields left I'm going to take down there. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so if you haven't, I literally cannot remember if we've talked about that on the show or not. I can't remember. I feel like we did, but I also feel like we had talked about it, but you were like, I don't want to talk about it until you actually had the crates or something. Yeah. Like you were figuring out shipping still or something. Yeah. So quick summary, I bought like roughly 50 to 60 play fields from Germany that were rethemed kits made by a company called Geiger, and they go into ballet machines. I sold all the ones that go with Mata Hari. I sold all the ones that go with KISS. I sold – I had a high-speed one. I had a strikes and spares one. I have a Firepower one and I'm left with this plethora of clay fields that go into Harlem Globetrotters and it has an outer space theme and the artwork is actually really cool yeah the artwork is really cool yeah I'll be taking those down there with me to sell off because I'm sick of them sitting here in a giant stack in my project room when I actually have real projects like I could be working on so I'm looking forward to that man the trip to Denver is March I think 5th or 6th I leave and then And after that, I've got Texas Pinball Festival. And after that, Pinball at the Zoo in April. Nice. And then I suck it up until school gets out at the end of May. My friend Dan DW, you mentioned earlier, he is actually going to be hosting a big classics tournament at the Center of the Universe Brewery. And I think the dates are, I think it's March 20. it's like March 22nd or 21st so it's the week before TPS week before Texas he's doing a big it's all classics though I love that it's all classics multiple days it's called the oh shit East Coast Classics Championship so very cool yeah so if you're in the area or not in the area i think it's gonna yeah i think he's trying to line up a bunch of classic games i'm gonna take one of my games and at least um but yeah all classics and i think he's gonna run it you know like one day of qualifying in the next day finals or something so it'll be a multiple multi-day event um so that'll be cool My daughter is going to be hosting a charity pinball tournament. That's cool. So she's going to be hosting a charity pinball tournament March the 15th, which is a Sunday at the Richmond Pinball Collective, and that's going to be benefiting Feedmore, which is our local food bank, and they provide meals for kids in need. She's doing that for a civics project for her middle school. So she's hosting a pins for kids. and then Texas. Oh, shit, there's all kinds of shit going on now. Are you going to Texas this year? Man, I really want to go. I need to just find out what's going on because our schedules are just – the spring is just nuts with the kids. Yeah, I get that, man. I remember you went last year. I was hoping you'd be there this year, but I totally get it. I have other stuff to do. I am going to do my best to be there. I am driving this year since I have all these play fields to take. That's crazy. Yeah, if I'm driving and I'm bringing back, I'm supposed to be bringing back a game. That's the plan right now. So I like Texas because you can fly in on a Friday and leave Sunday morning and basically be at all of the show. Yep. Like, that's great. Like, I think it's very doable. I'm not doing Pittsburgh this year, Pinberg, because I will not be able to. so I'm trying to do Texas Texas is a weird one and I yeah I don't know yeah I'm not going to get into it but I'm going to do my best to go to Texas and then I want to go to Dory Hill the campground yeah that one looks awesome trying to negotiate that one right now it's like the worst time of year because it's the end of the first week of my kids school because it's the week after – I think it's the weekend after Labor Day they host it. Yeah. But, man, I'm going to tell you, like, I really want to go out to Colorado on a campground and play pinball. Yeah, that's awesome. Pretty much that's, like, a dream tournament for me. I've actually looked into not deep in detail, but running something like that up at my lake house. Ooh. Because there's like eight to nine rental cabins that are up there. Yeah. And they all have covered porches ready, and most of them sleep like four to ten people. Oh, dude. And then we've got our house. There's a two- or three-car garage with it where we could put more machines. And then there's kind of like a party barn that one of the other people have up there that they would let us use. So we could easily throw together like an 18-hole course up there. Oh, my God, dude. So I've thought about that, but it would have to be, like, over the summer when I'm off of school to be able to get games up there and manage all that. But, yeah, that tournament, I've never heard a bad thing about it. People go out there and they have a blast. You're in Colorado, dude. You smoke a bunch of weed up in the mountains or whatever. Like, that's – what are you going to complain about? Nothing, I guess. Nothing. You can't. You can't complain. Hey, man, I got to go. I got to go to bed. What? It's only, like, midnight, man. I thought we had a couple hours left. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. I'm an old man. Remember, I'm turning 48. I got two kids. I was up at 5 o'clock driving my kid to the bus. My daughter goes to the bus stop at 640. Hey, man, I'm at 640. Yeah, but you're a grown-up. I know. She's 13 years old. Like, 13, you shouldn't be up that early. It's crazy. It's not good for you. We'll talk in two weeks. Two weeks? I like it. Two weeks. If we go sooner, great. If we go later, guys, fucking deal with it. We record when we can. Hey, go listen to our network. There's a lot of shit to listen to. Yeah, the Pinball Podcast. I did a guest spot. Check that out. And again, if you're listening to this, you're probably going to know. What? I meant the classic Pinball Podcast. Oh. Sorry. We like you still, too. We're all on there. And again, you're already listening to this, most likely, if you've got to this point. Yeah. So you already know. But, again, anchor.fm slash this flipping podcast. And I looked at it, and it says exactly where we're available. It's still iTunes, Breaker, CastBox, Overcast, PocketCast, Radio Public, Spotify, Stitcher. And there's a link for our RSS feed. You can get to our Facebook page, our Instagram, our Twitter, our YouTube, all of it right there from the website on Anchor. Taylor, man, it was good to catch up. Hope you all enjoyed this. Sorry we did the same thing we always do where we just randomly talk about shit. That's what we do. It's our show. Sorry. Yeah. I'm not that sorry, actually. Later, bud. All right. Later. Bye. But I can talk to yourself God bless God bless God bless I can fucking tell The other guys are so glad If you see me in my face You feel like a category And she prefers to stop my face God's plan. God's plan. God's plan. I can't fucking tell. Anytime I'm up to jail. Don't be an awful gentleman. And I ain't no woman's heart. I am simply what I am. God's plan. God's plan. I think I know now. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: e9a3be39-bce8-4cf3-821c-0c4f28a0a26d*