# Joe Ciaravino - “Dude Where’s My Code?” - Episode 56

**Source:** JBS Show  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2025-03-07  
**Duration:** 89m 40s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** Buzzsprout-16748435

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## Analysis

Joe Ciaravino discusses his journey from competitive pinball player to content creator, covering the Toronto pinball scene, community-building philosophy, and his new Patreon podcast 'Dude Where's My Code?' which gives platform to pinball code developers. He emphasizes the importance of community over competition and advocates for recognizing the behind-the-scenes work of code teams who are critical to modern pinball quality.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Joe founded Pinball Degenerates ~7 years ago as a community-building project, not egotistical content creation — _Joe explicitly states he started it 'about seven years ago' and frames it as 'community creation' rather than personal branding_
- [HIGH] Toronto has multiple high-quality pinball venues: Maple Pinball (60+ games), Cin Fever, Antisocial Pinball (70 games with all LE/Premium machines) — _Joe provides detailed descriptions of each venue, their operators, and game counts_
- [HIGH] 'Dude Where's My Code?' releases new episodes monthly on Patreon at $2/month with 9 episodes completed as of March — _Joe states 'every month okay good' and mentions 'our ninth one' featuring Phil Grimaldi_
- [MEDIUM] Code quality in modern pinball games is consistently strong; Joe cannot think of a modern game where finished code remains poor — _Joe speculates: 'I can't even think of an instance where a game has been like finished it's done done and it's still a stinker' but acknowledges this is about faith in developers_
- [MEDIUM] Joe's competitive ranking is around 2000-3000 in WPPR but he doesn't actively track it — _Jamie suggests Joe is 'in the 2000s' and Joe responds 'that's fine for me' without confirming exact number_
- [HIGH] Phil Grimaldi (Barrels of Fun) has a doctorate in cognitive psychology and applies it to pinball rule design — _Joe describes Phil as having 'a doctorate in Psy in like a cognitive psychology' and discusses his application to rule mnemonics_
- [HIGH] Joe is taking a break from competitive play for 1.5 months due to performance anxiety affecting enjoyment — _Jamie states 'I'm taking a break from competitive pinball I'm gonna take a month and a half off' in response to nervousness_
- [HIGH] Pinball Degenerates group has clear community guidelines focused on respect and preventing bot spam, with private but not gatekeeping membership — _Joe explains the moderation philosophy: messaging people privately about offensive content rather than banning, with ~99% positive response_

### Notable Quotes

> "We're degenerates not jerks... I don't like again I kind of bristle at the like pinball Wizards... but it's like I'm a degenerate and that was like that in to me that was actually inspired the term"
> — **Joe Ciaravino**, ~45:00
> _Defines the philosophy behind Pinball Degenerates and distinguishes competitive obsession from elitism_

> "It's the community and it's all the people that really inspire me... it's nothing without everybody else contributing to it"
> — **Joe Ciaravino**, ~35:00
> _Core philosophy: community-first approach to pinball content and group management_

> "The whole point is to give these people a platform... the people working behind the scenes... working literally relentlessly like no morning noon and night... those people are really working hard"
> — **Joe Ciaravino**, ~70:00
> _Articulates mission of 'Dude Where's My Code?' to elevate code developers and behind-the-scenes workers often invisible compared to playfield designers_

> "I don't just ban them like an asshole I message them privately and I say look this is kind of like counter to what like we we sort of believe in as a group"
> — **Joe Ciaravino**, ~40:00
> _Demonstrates moderation philosophy emphasizing coaching over punishment_

> "When you're calm and relaxed I play better pinball I think we all do right but when I'm amped and nervous I choke like a chicken"
> — **Jamie Burchell**, ~15:00
> _Illustrates mental/psychological challenges of competitive pinball distinct from mechanical skill_

> "If your brain is not playing the game then how are your hands going to play the flippers... you lose up here first"
> — **Joe Ciaravino**, ~20:00
> _Captures the zen/flow state discussion: pinball as primarily mental performance_

> "I would honestly kind of do this for free because it's such a great journey"
> — **Joe Ciaravino**, ~65:00
> _Expresses genuine passion for content creation over monetization, justifying Patreon approach_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Joe Ciaravino | person | Pinball player, competitive tournament participant, founder of Pinball Degenerates Facebook group, new Patreon podcast host of 'Dude Where's My Code?', Arizona-based content creator |
| Jamie Burchell | person | Host of JBS Show on Wormhole Pinball, competitive pinball player struggling with performance anxiety, co-host discussing Toronto pinball scene |
| Pinball Degenerates | organization | Private Facebook group founded by Joe ~7 years ago focused on community building, non-gatekeeping but spam/behavior-moderated, emphasizes social pinball enjoyment over competition |
| Dude Where's My Code? | product | Patreon podcast ($2/month) hosted by Joe featuring interviews with pinball code developers, 9 episodes as of March, monthly release schedule, aims to elevate behind-the-scenes code team recognition |
| Wormhole Pinball | organization | Pinball arcade venue in Houston (Jamie's venue), described as excellent venue supporting competitive play and league tournaments |
| Maple Pinball | organization | Pinball venue in Mississauga/Toronto area with 60+ games, IFPA-sanctioned leagues |
| Cin Fever | organization | Small Toronto pinball bar with topnotch game collection and excellent curation by operator Dan Beon and owner Robin Harrison |
| Antisocial Pinball | organization | Toronto venue with 70 pinball games, all LE or Premium machines, owned by Steve Lefor, $20 entry with free play, custom toppers on all games |
| Trash Panda Pinball League | organization | Entry-level casual pinball league in Toronto run by Joe, not IFPA-certified, allows fun formats like split flipper and team games, designed for first-time tournament players |
| Phil Grimaldi | person | Barrels of Fun founder, featured guest on 'Dude Where's My Code?' ep 9, holds doctorate in cognitive psychology, applies psychology to pinball rule design |
| Barrels of Fun | company | Pinball manufacturer, founded/led by Phil Grimaldi, described as integral to Houston pinball ecosystem |
| Nate Shivers | person | Early pinball podcast pioneer (Coast to Coast Pinball), influenced Joe's content creation journey |
| Jack Danger | person | Early pinball streaming pioneer, mentioned as influential in opening pinball discourse to mass audiences |
| Greg Pavarelli | person | Elite competitive pinball player, visited Toronto for IFPA 15, inspired Pinball Degenerates group concept |
| Steve Bowen | person | Elite competitive pinball player, visited Toronto for IFPA 15, inspired Pinball Degenerates concept |
| Lyman Sheets | person | Late elite competitive pinball player, visited Toronto for IFPA 15, inspired Pinball Degenerates name/concept |
| Steve Lefors | person | Owner of Antisocial Pinball in Toronto, invests heavily in premium/LE machines and custom toppers |
| Dan Beon | person | Operator at Cin Fever in Toronto, maintains excellent game quality |
| Robin Harrison | person | Owner/proprietor of Cin Fever in Toronto |
| Electric Bat Arcade | organization | Arizona-based pinball arcade mentioned as context for Joe's location |
| Colin Kerr/Kineticist | person | Organizer of weekly Discord content creator chats with 6-10 participants including Joe |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Competitive pinball psychology and mental performance, Toronto pinball scene and venue ecosystem, Community-first content creation and group moderation, Code development and behind-the-scenes pinball production
- **Secondary:** Pinball podcast and content creator landscape history, Entry-level tournament formats and accessibility, Flow state and zen philosophy in pinball
- **Mentioned:** WPPR rankings and competitive hierarchy

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.82) — Joe and Jamie both express genuine enthusiasm for pinball community, venues, and people. Discussion is celebratory of Toronto scene and Joe's content initiatives. Some tension around competitive nerves (Jamie's struggle) but framed constructively. No negative criticism of manufacturers or major figures, only praise for pioneers like Nate Shivers and Jack Danger.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Patreon as emerging monetization platform for niche pinball podcast content, with creator-friendly pricing and community-first approach gaining traction (confidence: medium) — Joe launched 'Dude Where's My Code?' on Patreon with 9 monthly episodes, $2/month pricing, demonstrating sustainability model separate from YouTube/Spotify ad models
- **[community_signal]** Joe's deliberate moderation approach in Pinball Degenerates using private coaching rather than public bans, with 99% positive response rate, indicating successful community culture-setting (confidence: high) — Joe describes messaging people privately about offensive content: 'I don't just ban them like an asshole I message them privately' with reported ~99% positive outcome
- **[community_signal]** Toronto pinball community showing maturity and scale with multiple IFPA-sanctioned venues (City Pinball, Bluffs Pinball, Maple Pinball), casual entry-level leagues (Trash Panda), and diverse venue types (dive bar to premium-only clubs) (confidence: high) — Joe describes 5+ venues with different demographics and formats, all running concurrent leagues and tournaments, indicating healthy ecosystem
- **[community_signal]** Patreon podcast model starting at $2/month with free sample content as strategy to lower barrier to entry while supporting content creator (confidence: high) — Joe explains approach: 'I get a lot of flack for it it's only $2 a month' but provides free samples/snippets for potential subscribers
- **[competitive_signal]** Mental performance and flow state recognized as primary differentiator in modern competitive pinball, with Jamie noting nerves/anxiety as limiting factor more than mechanical skill (confidence: medium) — Jamie: 'When I'm calm and relaxed I play better pinball...when I'm amped and nervous I choke' and taking 1.5 month break from competition due to this, despite being ~2000 WPPR ranked
- **[market_signal]** Elevation of code/engineering teams in pinball as distinct from playfield designers, positioning developers as under-recognized heroes of modern pinball (confidence: high) — 'Dude Where's My Code?' podcast premise is explicitly to give platform to code developers; Joe argues code quality is primary driver of modern game success: 'in modern pinball...there's so much more' from code than mechanics
- **[event_signal]** IFPA 15 tournament in Toronto (mentioned ~2014-2015 timeframe) as catalyst event for community bonding and inspiration for Pinball Degenerates concept (confidence: medium) — Joe describes Greg Pavarelli, Steve Bowen, and Lyman Sheets visiting Toronto for IFPA 15 and partying until morning, inspiring 'degenerate' community concept
- **[licensing_signal]** Phil Grimaldi's background in cognitive psychology applied to pinball rule design, suggesting emerging trend of behavioral science informing game design (confidence: medium) — Joe highlights Phil's doctorate in cognitive psychology and discusses how he applies 'mnemonic devices to help people remember rule sets'
- **[community_signal]** Joe transitioning from primarily competitive player/community organizer to podcast content creator, maintaining community focus rather than pursuing monetization-first strategy (confidence: high) — Joe states 'I would honestly kind of do this for free because it's such a great journey' and sets Patreon at $2/month with samples available free

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## Transcript

hello my name is Jamie burel and you are listening to and or watching our podcast called Wormhole pinball present pinball presents Wormhole pinball presents today I'm very very excited to be joined by two great individuals today I'm really excited to be joined by a very special guest and today I'm very excited to be joined by two awesome guests all the way from Arizona hello my name is Jamie burel and you are listening to and are watching our podcast Wormhole pinball presents and today I'm very excited to be joined by a very special guest Joe cherino of pinball degenerates on pinside and a fairly new podcast on patreon called dude wears my code welcome to the Wormhole virtually Joe thank you very much for having me Jamie it's an honor to be part of this and to be a guest thank you so much I'm not sure if a special guest I'm just a guest not so special special guest we first met at Expo um yeah this past October this past the first time we've ever actually met uh my friend Ian jacobe had a was with you know kind of nudging off your booth if you will and uh we were nudging off each other we were nudging each other's budge so to speak there you go we were budging each each other's nudge I've really gotten to know you on the weekly chat that we have on the Discord content creators that Colin AER put together yeah and there's what six to 10 of us there on a weekly basis and we just saw pinball is a good group and I really like that those chats are fun uh okay as usual these interviews are very very informal Joe let's go you know let's talk right off the bat I I like to start today about competitive pinball all right let's go into a passion for both of us right yeah how's how's the pinball scene in Toronto and how often do you play in tournaments I try to play in most if not all the major tournaments here in Toronto um we've got several leagues running uh i' I've been kind of not doing so much the leagues as much CU it's just right now just D Jenny's getting ready for a bunch of stuff and traveling and all bunch of stuff but I try to contribute um so I've actually started up a league of my own uh which is kind of an informal league but we have some great leagues already that are ifpa sanctioned we've got City pinball here in Toronto we've got Bluffs pinball in the East End where I live and we've also got uh the maple pinball which is in the west end part of Toronto actually technically Miss Saga which is kind of like a right just on the cusp on the west sort of uh edge of Toronto and they're really great they've got I'd say over 60 pinball machines there it's a great location in Maple cin fever is where we have our City pinball meets uh they're much small it's kind of a smart small kind of hole in- the wall kind of dive bar bar but the collection there is topnotch the games are always playing incredibly well at cin fever they have operators uh Dan beon does a great job and the owner uh Robin Harrison does amazing job as the owner proprietor of the bar there and it's just a really awesome Vibe very cozy it's like kind of a pinball uh obviously a pinball Hangout out uh a great place to buy like a vintage record like a vinyl and and stuff and great cocktails great craft beers on to and uh really really amazing place just a great place even just to take a date and have just a kind of cool chill place to have and maybe play some pinball while you're on your date it's a great vibe there and there's another place called antisocial which has about 70 games as well and they have an incredible like it's more of a kind of a club where you have to like well it's not a club but like it's a it's a $20 entry all the games are on free play but all the games are like Le or premiums like there it's it's unbelievable like there's this guy Steve lefor is the owner uh he just he just goes all out on the on the premiums and even if a game doesn't have a Topper he gets like a custom topper for that game and like it's like completely like all the games are top top notot shape and they're really high quality games and that's called antisocial pinball here in Toronto and I run pluging everybody aren't you yeah no I love I just I I want to support as much as I can of the the community here cuz they given me so much so and I just I can only and they're friends of mine you know so like of course like I'm going to be there for them but I'm but again to pitch some plug something for myself I'm doing this thing so in Toronto we have a lot of raccoons like a lot of cities have raccoons but we try to pretend we're special with our raccoons but you know we call them trash pandas so we have I I run the trash Panda pinball league and it's a kind of a very entry-level casual League that's not ifpa certified so we can do fun stuff like split flipper or Team games or kind of wacky stuff critical hit type tournaments where you know it doesn't really matter and it's not like for any Whopper points people are just coming a lot of them coming for the first time they've never like literally the guy that came in first place in last the first season the he he had never played in a pinball tourament before in his life he'd been playing pinball but never had gone out to play competitive pinball before in his life it was the first time the first League that he ever played in and he won it and that's that that's why that's why it's so important to do stuff like that you know get people uh you know just just new people new interest in the Hobby and have it like a lowlevel very compet competitive but also a very social aspect to it and that's what really I think keeps me coming back not just the games I love playing the games but you know like it's really the people that keep you coming right yeah they it is right like Houston we have a really great team we've got probably five tournaments a week and um you know it's really really growing and what's keeping it growing is not only great places like the Wormhole but also great people right of course yeah it's nothing without the people supporting it and coming right there's you know what it's just that's the heart of it right yeah when when there's leagues that have you know [ __ ] in it they wonder why they don't grow and it's because the community you know but there so few and far between in pin yeah it it comes from the top down for sure a lot of it right what what you allow what you allow in the kind of atmosphere and like what you like allow people to get away with but I I find that a lot of these things I maybe I'm just kind of Lucky with the grp communities that I've been in involved in Toronto those people people generally don't really they weed themselves out you don't even need to really talk to them they just like figure out like oh like I'm not connecting with anybody here there must they probably figured they think that it's like all them they're the jerks and they just kind of like just you know leave so it's generally you know either that or like people just realize oh okay I'll just let that person you know have their space and you know I think it's it's we again we're very very lucky in Toronto it's a very Cosmopolitan very you know a progressive city with a lot of you know very open inclusive uh atmosphere in general the whole city so it's like that that that you know reflects in many other things pinball as a you know group as well is just kind of a offshoot of that kind of culture that we have in the city in general so well that's that's great to hear uh you gotta come up you gotta come up to Toronto J the Carl Weathers is not great I gotta tell you right now don't come up at this time of year in the middle of uh of like early March like late Fe no you don't want to come but but June July August come on up it's great it's really I would love to go uh and and go to a ball game you know oh yeah the Dome I love the Dome people hate the Dome I love I'd like to see it uh you can definitely get me up there when the Yankees are in town and that would be a lot of fun so yeah hey man like I love it when the Yankees are in town too it's great we're we're lucky to be in that division that have so many great leagues uh other other teams you know so we get we got you know like Tampa Bay and and uh wow you know whatever and the and the Yankees of course you're a pretty good player you know no I'm not no I'm not no youpa ranking I'm sure you know it by heart no I I'm in the I probably I you know I I my only goal was to make the top like 1,000 in like two years I did that and now I'm just letting it slide I really honestly I don't check it at all really at all but I'm probably like around 3,000 or something or 2,000 that's where I'm at I think you're in the 2000s I that's fine for me you know what I've been struggling with sure honestly is my nerves and I I know it sounds crazy people you know if you're not a competitive pinball player and you're listening to this and you're like Jamie your nerves are getting to you when I'm calm and relaxed I play better pinball I think we all do right but when I'm amped and nervous I choke like a chicken Joe and just don't choke your chicken while you're playing because then you'll get thrown out for sure you'll definitely get thrown out I just have a tough time staying calm I tell this the story real quick I tell the story of an airline pilot that plays with us and he he he told me once he's like dude I landed a plane in a 30 knot wind at O'Hare this morning didn't bat an eye my hand was steady you asked me to get ball three multiball on whatever game and I'm choking I'm he goes I am literally shaking and and and that's competitive pinball so how do you handle this how do you handle the nerves not well uh I mean I I don't really drink much and I don't do any kind of other substances but I was just fine that's how some people kind of deal with the stress we call them per performance enhancing I mean that's fine I get that's all all whatever floats your boat I don't judge whatever but it's just not for me it just puts me especially smoking and anything like that like it just put me in a weird even worse head space uh but for me it's like two beers good two beer or like I like I like to drink cider I'm a cider guy so usually I'll drink like two ciders or like maybe a Ryan Ginger and then like something else uh but like yeah B basically two drinks and I'm like that's my level just to loosen me up and and and it's a fine line because you want to be calm and and like you know relaxed but then also you want to actually still be alert and care you still want you don't want to be just like ah whatever you know you kind of have to still be alert I'm taking a break from competitive pinball I'm gonna take a month and a half off that's healthy for sure because I'm I get so nervous that it's it's it's making it not fun for me but I remember you were talking to kale uh uh down like an interview that they were doing down from from Electric bad I remember kale was talking about like cuz I think maybe he he does like JJ Jiu-Jitsu or something he do deep breathing and he does like deep breathing and like I'm I'm trying to do that and it doesn't work for me but like if that can work for you great like I think it didn't work for me I I I was literally channeling kale and I said all right because we had our league finals and uh two out of three games and he picked uh he pick a bank of games and I'll tell a pinball story to you Joe we start out we start out at uh jaws and I suck at jaws okay I don't have a plan you know you need a plan you need a plan the plan goes to hell when you get punched in the face like Michael Tyson I know but I just don't have a freaking plan on Jaws so I lost on Jaws so then we go to stranger things I know stranger things I have a plan I get multiball kick his ass then we go to Alvar and I couldn't do a thing oh man burn so many times she got me good it's a simple like layout like it's like there's not nothing crazy about it nothing that made I just literally my shoulders were tight and I was just anyway it's it's a fine line right like it's a fine line you got to walk between like just going with the flow and like keeping but also keeping your mental acuity and like Focus I never yeah it is I never got this nervous playing golf never yeah no that was really good and and thinking about dusting off this clubs again but no that's that's an interesting sport too I mean I don't play much golf on like Mini Putt or like you know maybe I'll go to like a Golfing Range or something once in a while but I'm pretty terrible but it's an interesting sport when you think about it like the amount of time you actually play golf is like probably like for like a two or three hour long thing you're only playing the actual game you're swinging for like I don't know 10 seconds or something like for the total amount of time you're actually doing the thing that is playing the game the rest is just kind like walking and it's a cultural thing too it's hanging with people and it's hanging with people too right like your friends you go out a couple beers you go on the on the lanes have some sandwiches and you you call it an afternoon you know there you go but uh yeah I mean there's a lot of things like with golf that are it's a solo performance thing in a lot of ways it's very singular and it's a very much like a head like 90% of is like in your head and your body mechanics right because it's interesting somebody's kind of referred to pinball as kind of like the opposite of t-ball if you think about it because because t-ball is all about it's nothing to do about timing right because the ball is always going to be there right and it's all about body mechanics as t-ball but Pinball's like the opposite Pinball's the opposite it doesn't really matter that much about how you press the flipper or you know you just got to have the timing right the timing is the most important thing in pinball so it's like the opposite of t-ball and when you're jittering when you're sometimes that works sometimes that energy sometimes you get lucky and you just you're just on the Fly you're just making like crazy on thefly shots and you're just like I'm like possessed like I'm in like a weird [ __ ] State sorry if I sore but like you're in a weird Flow State right and you just let go and you're just in the zone and then that's the magical thing when you're in that focused Zone and you're not like in having any sort of internal monologue whatsoever that's part of it right you're like oh geez I need like 20 more thousand points or I lose oh you can't think you're just like okay I made a great shot okay I'm going to make this shot okay then this shot this is flashing going to hit that oh missed it okay I'm going to do a little later hit that that good okay moving on like that's the kind of monologue you need to be having right I know and that's the beauty of pinball like know it it makes you present like when you're P playing Pinball it's such a great like Zen experience like in a in the best possible way it's like a great distraction from the from the rest of life in the best possible way because if you're thinking about oh man I got to do the laundry and then I got to pick up the kids at 8 and then we got to take them to choir practice tomorrow and then and then you've lost you've lost you're you're not playing pinball you are in a different you have that silver that's right now in front of your like right down in front of your and if you're not thinking about that you're lost you lose because you lose up here first what are you g to do with your flippers what do you think controls your hands that control the flippers it's up here your brain so if your brain is not playing the game then how are your hands going to play the flippers and how the flippers going to hit the ball it's going to cost me a lot of money in in therapy to figure that out you just talk to me you can just talk to me man therapist all right let's switch gears to uh when you first got into the pinball content creation space like what came first for you I mean I don't know I mean really I'm kind of new to content creation like I like I've always been a great like like voracious uh consumer of pinball content all the podcasts you know starting with like the great Nate Shivers and Coast to Coast pinball it was a very kind of sparse landscape even just like seven or eight years ago and I I think like so much can nothing can be said about like podcasting or content creation without like mentioning like Joe SED who started streaming pinball and Jack dandrew started streaming pinball and and Nate Shivers like these guys were real pioneers and you know they they've gone on to do different things in their lives uh but I think what they the standard of of like quality and and seriousness and that they brought to the the hobby of pinball and and discourse of pinball and and the fun of it and how how uh engaging it can be for a kind of a mass or larger audience let's just say as opposed to just a singular experience which usually you know you're going to a CR you you're usually not playing with other friends you know you're just by yourself and you're just having a singular experience opening that up to all the different possibilities of being social and and you know interacting on chat and and letters and and and and a discourse that is really opened up the whole Hobby in a new level that you cannot underestimate all these people have done so I've always been a huge ug consumer of pinball podcast streaming and you know award shows like the twippie and uh you know all kinds of fun stuff like that like it's all been like part of this great great kind of Mosaic of fun and um but like yeah I mean I I I started pinball degenerates about seven years ago that I wouldn't say that's really content creation it's more of like a community creation right that's the way I see it because it's I it's not like some crazy egotistical like project for like it's like but if you're not engaging your your your your people if you're not engaging them with content that your your group's going to die right so well yeah you set the stand you set the tone right you set the tone and you and you try to like show okay well this is acceptable and this is what we're about and you may be new here and it really just started with me like bringing in all my pinball friends in at first because those are the people that I knew right like I wasn't like it it is a private group but it's not to be like a gatekeeping Jerk It's just to make sure that like you know uh that we don't get bots constantly spamming like you know the the thing and and just people that it's like okay look like you know you're going to be part of this community you have to be respectful to everybody else show all the wacky crazy [ __ ] up crazy pinball stuff you're into that's great like be a degenerate don't have any you know we're not going to judge you we're not going to rip you apart we're not going to like you know criticize you or anything we're just gonna we understand we're we're one of you you know like and it just started with a great group of friends and then it kind of like started again I don't need it to be like the biggest pinball group in the world I just want it to be a great pinball group that's all it's a great group Joe congratulations I it's hard it's hard it's hard I really enjoy posting on the generates I get a lot more feedback from them and it's it's been a very good community so thank you thank you well thanks to the community that's what again it's all about right like you try to set like an example and it's hard it's hard you don't always get it right I've messed up I've got I've lost you know i' I've said Sometimes some stuff that I've regretted and I've owned up to it and we try to all kind of understand if somebody says something kind of like offensive or sexist or whatever something that like would kind of like you know make other people in the group feel less than I would you know I don't just ban them like an [ __ ] I I message them privately and I say look this is kind of like counter to what like we we sort of believe in as a group coach up yeah like I mean I'm just like I don't want to be like you know again I don't want to be like um you know patronizing but just like hey man like I'll tell you look this is the reason why this is not cool and if you could take it down I'd appreciate it uh I don't want to have to remove it or anything like that but like I just want you to understand and some like oh yeah sorry I didn't really mean it that way I was just having a like a light-hearted joke no problem like that's like 99% of the time 1% of the time they'll be like [ __ ] you man whatever like okay well see you later bye I tried to talk to you like an adult and explain to you kind of what we're about and if you don't want to be part of that you can go you can leave you know I mean like that's fine well it's you've done a good job there congrats well it's hard it is a hard and find them on uh pinball degenerates on Facebook it's great Facebook grp Facebook groupsg groups. pinball degenerates all one word pinball degenerates and uh yeah like everybody like as long as you're not a robot or a jerk you're welcome to come join like that's basically the only pretty easy right prerequisite right yeah so it's just like that's why there's like some questions for like Bots like like it's great I get all the responses from the Bots that clearly it's like a chat GPT response like what's your favorite pinball machine my favorite pinball machine is and in quotes for some reason it always does it in quotes Adams Family pinball that is my favorite pinball machine and I'm just like hm that's a little suspect you know so you know it's like it's like I you know if somebody says something like their favorite game is like hard bodies then like yeah then okay you're in you know like you're you're part of us you're want you understand and so like there's just like just agree to not be a jerk to other people be respectful uh that's all and just add whatever crazy [ __ ] you're doing in pinball whether it's you know on another uh podcast or streaming or a a restoration that you just finished that you're super proud of and and just anything anything just jokes memes throw them all in there and we're all going to just appreciate it and that's what it's all yeah Joe I found it to be a very you know encompassing nice group so there you go I mean we TR I mean we're degenerates not jerks you know what I mean we're degenerates we're obsessed like I don't like again I kind of bristle at the like pinball Wizards is like that's the default most of the the normies used to describe like a person who's enthusiastic about pinball but it's like I'm a degenerate and that was like that in to me that was actually inspired the term was inspired to me by a group of friends all- American friends uh Greg pelli Steve Bowen and the late great linman sheets they were all in town in Toronto for ifpa 15 and after a a grueling weekend okay like grueling just like top level pinball like we're talking competitive level player the highest in the world after like 15 or 16 hours straight of that these guys didn't just go home and go to sleep and get a good night's rest for the next like the finals they went downtown they traveled like another two hours to get downtown Toronto partied up at like midnight till like 4: or 5:00 in the morning and at this bar where I used to work there I still love these guys tilt arcade bar and they came and they partied Lyman sheets Greg pelli Steve Bowen and were all having fun we're all playing pinball we're just enjoying pinball you'd think you'd be sick of it after all this time but they're degenerates they can't get enough of it and I was like you guys are degenerates man you guys are parting up way into the morning hours it's going to be like you guys have to be back at the final in like 5 hours you guys are crazy but and that's where just kind of the idea came to me like that's the real Spirit of Pinball it's yeah sure be competitive and all that stuff is a lot of fun but it's like just getting together your friends have a couple beers relax be social enjoy the games enjoy the company and that's what I love about it that's what makes you a degenerate in my opinion you know what I mean well said yeah it was just and that's why you know I mean you know I just I it's the community and it's all the people that really inspire me and again it's it's about everybody in the group it's not about like all the dumb memes and jokes that I post and everything it's it's it's nothing without everybody else contributing to it okay well go check them out guys because it's really it is really good um what gave you the idea to start Dude where's my code well I I love like I again it's not a mean-spirited thing it's kind of a kind of a satire of that you know entitled explain explain it for everyone in case they don't know the my code on patreon right yeah it's on patreon that I get a lot of flack for it's only $2 a month2 it's only $2 a month but you know whatever it is it just I feel that for me as a content creator it was important like I I I have like the kind of intro that's like free is like hey if you think that this is something you'd be interested in take a listen to these kind of like little sample interviews that I did and if so you know give it a shot for two bucks and if you don't like in YouTube and I thought that was really smart I think the little Snippets that you took yeah from those great interviews were excellent well done there how many episodes have you done so far we just had our ninth one Phil Grimaldi our good friend Phil galdi from Barrel fun was our most recent one for March uh do one a new podcast every mon every okay good he's the Godfather of Houston pinball without him and uh the Dron a and a lot of other people Houston pinball doesn't exist so yeah I mean he's a fantastic Ambassador for pinball and re again I've met so many incredibly brilliant passionate people I only met Phil a couple times at some tournaments like pinburgh and a couple penberg and a couple things here in like Papa and I I I spoke to him very briefly but like it was so amazing to get to know people like Phil they have a psych like Phil has like a ma like a doctorate in Psy in like a cognitive psychology and I'm just like that's amazing how does how do you take you know we talk about this in the interview how do you take your knowledge of cognitive psychology and learning the the psychology of learning how do you take that and apply that to pinball rules you know with you know using non-verbal cues you know sort of like any kind of like um pneumonic devices to help people remember you know certain rule sets and stuff like that and he has so much that he puts into that that's his background that he puts into it it's incredible the guys that like all these people are so incredibly smart and and I'm just it's really a pleasure honestly it is $2 a month but I would I honestly would kind of do this for free because it's such a great journey no I think it's smart by starting out on patreon I yeah I think it's harder for people when they jump back and forth from patreon maybe I just I want to give these people exposure right because again the whole point is that people are doing the code and people only really complain when they haven't done their job or they don't think that they've done their job the way they wanted to right and but when they do their job and they usually do at the end of the day when the code is finally finished it's amazing like there's so many rare instance like I can't even think of an instance where a game has been like finished it's done done and it's still a stinker like I can't even think of a game off the top of my head where that of a modern game like where the code is you know not going to be chm well maybe but like there's but they're just outliers right eventually you kind of have to have faith that yeah people really care these people working on the games behind the scenes they're going to finish the game they're going to do their job because they love it and and they they they're not just like punching in they're doing something in pinball because they want to do it in pinball and they they love it and they and they take it very seriously they really do and I take it seriously and so that's the whole point is to give these people a platform I wish people would literally not even for like the subscribers or viewers it's literally just for the exposure for these people to get their names out there because we all know the Steve Richies the Pat lawers the Jack dangers uh you know ER the mark siden of the World Mark um you know like like we all know these names they're the designers of the playfields they're like the directors the you know really kind of big faces to each of these games but the people working behind the scenes the people doing all the stuff behind the scenes and working literally relentlessly like no morning noon and night yeah those those people are really working hard and you could make the argument very easily that in modern pinball with the given the sort of standard kind of games that we have now kind of like you know like not there's not jjp is not doing wide bodies anymore it's all kind of a standard size that everything is kind of generally coalescing around like you're dealing with a very finite real estate area and there's only so much that you can do mechanically shots that you can change everything up without it being come somewhat syy and repetitive a little bit like like there's still ingenious stuff that people are still doing but there's only a certain amount you can do with a game physically but there's so much more like an incredible especially with the technology now with LCD screens and lighting and sound and video and all the different things that you can do under the hood so to speak or under the Playfield the technology that that's part of the experience of not just just shooting shots for the sake of shooting shots but making them meaningful emotional narrative-driven based moments and and the anticipation I was talking to Elizabeth gesi from Stern pin that was an excellent one she she did she worked on on just recently Dungeons and Dragons and of course Jaws was her first game that she worked she talks about you know it's not just the big blowup moments it's the anticipation it's the moment that's the mo the the the buildup that she wants to focus on to get there the frustration oh oh I make okay I gotta make that shot oh jeez I shot I missed it oh geez okay okay I gotta make that shot okay I gotta make it twice now okay I got to make it now I got to make it fast and like all that anticipation to get to the big payoff is like the real art that these people are working in crafting it's just like a story in a I'm a movie guy so like you can't just have like EXP explosions I was talking to Jos sharp you can't just have Michael Bay B explosions constantly fireworks because then that gets really boring it means nothing but the anticipation and being able to build up to it and really feel like you've earned that now that's what we're talking about that's the real pinball moment and that's what these people are all about making and you can really craft that now as a programmer you can make a story out of a pinball game you know again to bring a parallel again you get me talking about pinball I'm never gonna stop no man movies and pinball movies and pinball have such an amazing parallel originally movies were just seen as like a idol you know uh entertainment you know you would put your Nickel in the Nickelodeon and you'd watch a lady you know in her swimsuit for like 20 seconds or something you'd get like some you know titillating V like film content and then you'd move on it was like a circus freak Show or something like like an a you know an attraction a sideshow attraction and and that was what film started out it's just kind of a curiosity but then people were like oh wow I can actually tell a story with this technology I can actually get like um other things like sound and color and things that make it more engaging for the audience and I can actually tell something that like has like a real art form and like a real human experience and I think Pinball's kind of hitting this level where film and video games as well because video games were just like arcade experiences they were just something you went you played it for like Donkey Kong for like you know two minutes and then you moved on right you you ate all quarters and you moved on and you didn't think about it anymore but now you've got games like you know games like Legend of Zelda they're EP or Final Fantasy you've got epic epic storylines now where you're engaged for multiple like tens of hours of gaming time and you're engaged you care about these characters you care about what happens to them you want to see a sequel you want to you want to come back to it again and again and again and I think pinball is kind of getting that way because of the Home Market because of the demands of a Home Market environment people are putting this these games in their home they W want to just play them for like a month or two and then get rid of them cuz like you know bringing a pinball your home is quite an ordeal anywhere Hing a b m machine is an investment in a lot of ways for different things physically and money and you want to have something that represents you that connects to you emotionally uh intellectually uh like just on many different levels you don't want just like an idle kind of piece of entertainment that you you just you know consume and then throw away so I think pinball is kind of hitting this kind of threshold right now and you talk about games like Dungeons and Dragons wow like you're you're carrying over player progress you're carrying I got talked to Dwight Sullivan again not to push the pinball the the podcast but like that's this what blows my mind we didn't get specifically into D and D at the time because he was just literally on the cusp of revealing it but he was talking about his game his technically his game seven for stern and he was talking about how he's put so much time and effort and it's like the like it like doubles the amount of code that like of like the previous like games that he did like only like four or five years ago it's unbelievable and the amount of work that's going into it and again not to take anything away from like Brian Eddy and the Amazing Dragon and all the fun mechanical stuff like the the gelatinous cube and R wrath the the Relentless the head the dragon it's amazing like nobody nobody's ever done anything that complicated before and like it's wild but the code is really what's going to get you to come back and get that second and third and fourth and fifth and sixth quarterback in there or on my account I'm a Canadian so loonies and tunies so uh you know that's what's going to keep the player engaged and and being like yeah this is a game I want for my home this is a game that I want to keep playing on location this is a game that I want to just I want to keep playing you know and that's the code it's not necessarily just the shots and and the getting the score people want to people want to like it's like again in video games it was like back in the day in arcade games people like well what your score in Donkey Kong what's your score in Pac-Man that's all that mattered right now who cares about your score in like Zelda or Final Fantasy that doesn't even exist it's about what you've experienced in the game or like the Indiana Jones game that just came out I'm a huge Indi I haven't I'm all in Call of Duty right now oh Call of Duty sure right yeah and it's just like playing the new Call of Duty I I'm up in my character I've already uh prestiged a whole bunch of guns and it's a personal thing it's a personal thing yeah like we did all the ARs with my son when he was here for Christmas awesome great time over the Christmas holidays man I had a ball that's so American I love it so I played a game with Albert igar oh and I want to play the same game with you so we're going to talk about a pinball Rumor Mill right okay and I'm going to give you some hot takes oh [ __ ] on some of these rumor machines and you tell me what you think let's start with the monster King Kong coming from Stern possibly right yeah I mean again I'm I said this let's just pretend that it's this happening right just pretending yeah I said to Orbee I said I want King Kong to climb up the Empire State Building have planes running around him physically in the game you don't want just like a LCD screen of it I want it physically in the game a physical skyscraper skyscraper I want Kong coming up it yeah okay okay that's my take is that possible are they gonna do this I mean look I'm all about plastic and no I mean I I we'll see I mean again like it is tough bringing like that level of mechanical I'm just thinking like having a vertical thing there's don't like you know you had the like the building in in Godzilla which yeah you raises and lowers that that's I mean something that's relatively like about a foot and a half almost a foot and a half KH climbing the Empire sh I'm about it what we need I'm all about it but like I mean and you know you talk about other games like what is it uh Wipeout uh like the old like the got Le game like with like it has like a whole ski hill and the ball goes up the ski hill and it comes down uh and like you know it's possible it just depends on like but you know for a a mechanical thing like that you always have to balance it out and Keith is always about the shots right like I'm not sure if he's super super keen on you know what I like to call teema which is a thing that I try desperately to make it a term but almost nobody except for multimorphic they use that term in their recent promo I got a shout out to my friend stevenh silver who put that in the promo for Princess Bride pinball they actually use the word thematically integrated mechanical action which to me is not the it's it may not be the most important thing for most people but for me it's what makes pinball unique it's that you know like you're saying like I want something to happen physically in the game that relates to the theme it has to be you know thematically integrated mechanical action can't be just like mechanical action for the sake of it it's maybe this will catch on maybe I don't think so no it's never G I've already tried I've already tried so hard and no one want to put it he doesn't want anything to do with it but I love him he's a great guy but it's there's no way that's going in the new pinball dictionary anytime soon anyhow but like point my point is like yeah that's what I think people crave it's not just like shots because like yeah you can there's other games that where you make a shot and you get points like you know pool is like a different kind of like it's an ancestor the pool you make shots and you make the shots and you do it good you put the ball where it needs to go and that's the thing and you're using kind of an analog as the stick as your hand as opposed to Flippers right it's a less mechanical thing but it's basically they have the same ancestor right they like bagels and pool right is where they kind of split off but you know I think that people really still crave that magical like when you think of games like Adam's Family you think of the hands the thing hand that comes in picks up the ball that's an exciting moment it's not a big part of the game M the the the castle in in Attack From Mars the first thing you think about is the you know exactly it's the castle it's so brilliant by the way how that works all the like the things it's like a string that pulls it and when it when it lets go of the tension it goes down and then when it pulls the tension down it goes up it straightens up it's such a brilliant design we'll move on to another game multimorphic is supposedly releasing uh their newest module for the P3 platform portal is that we're hearing right what are your thoughts on that title did you play the video game oh yeah I love portal and I've played parts of portal too hav't gotten through the whole thing I I had to kind of stop halfway through I never picked it back up it's like a puzzle game right my kids played it the best thing about portal is that it literally takes the concept of learning again going back to the psychology of learning it takes the concept of learning in any video game like whether you're playing like Zelda Metroid Mario Brothers uh Call of Duty whatever right when you're playing a single player game the game goes hey this is what you can do you can look up look down left and right it's kind of like a like a play tutorial and then and then in Portal like there's levels that are based on kind of that same concept it's like oh this is how you walk through a portal you go through here and then you end up here and then then it's like oh but by the way also if you shoot a portal above you you can land and then you can like jump and you can carry that momentum forward and then you can do like this thing now and then the next level's like oh but you can add this now so do all those steps plus one thing and then the next level is like do all those steps again Plus this new thing and then this new thing and you're constantly learning a new like technique or a new skill you and that's the beauty and that's how video games work that's a lot of games that's how they work it's like oh I have this new item I have this new Shield or sword or gun or whatever you want to call it and now I can do this and now I can do everything else in my Arsenal and my toolbox and then this and now I've got to learn and master this new thing and now I've got this new thing and that's the whole idea of like again that goes back into pinball where it's like you know games a lot of games that Dwight's done with like Mandalorian it's like oh I've played this long and now I can use the flamethrower and now I can use this item and now I can use this and now I got an extra ball wow okay cool so you're taking it from like a very little seed of like a game and then it just kind of like exponentially blossoms and that's I think a lot of the keys in any game in any game you play it starts always very small board games video games pinball games it starts from like a little kernel and then it just kind of like you just the fun of it is watching it kind of like evolve in all the different things that you can do and experiencing that is so much fun I think that's like the real like essence of what a game is you know learning it's interesting with multimorphic because they do such a good job incorporating video games with pinball so yeah I mean this whole screen is is an interactive ball screen it'll be interesting to see what they do with that they have some of the best teema out there as well it's not just about the screen it's about the mechanical things that they put in the game as well for all the modules like again I am I am but a mechanical you call it toys you want to call it toys you want to call it next or whatever that's it's all part of that you know the cliche the world underglass right it's what makes it what makes it a unique experience as opposed to just a bunch of ramps and loops and targets right we've we've seen that many times you and and it's not an engaging emotional a narrative based experience usually and that's just part of the evolution of the game right back in the day you'd play a game from the 60s to 70s you'd hit a bunch of targets and then you walk away and that's it you're I got the high score and then you walk away but now it's like man I really want to get to that new character I want to unlock that the the barred in Dungeons and Dragons I I want to unlock you know these characters or these different functions and modes and stuff and you're really invested that's a really really smart way to make the games Modern and fresh playing again and again and again and one more quarter one more qu it's all about one more dollar originally that's what pinball was it was just a passive income gaining machine like a claw game almost you know you'd put it there you'd fix it up you'd reload it with you know fix it up and just people would get you'd make passive income come off that you just check it every couple days and collect the coin box and whatever but it's it's amazing like there still is that like again that one more game feel to it that you kind of have to still have even for the Home Market I like the P3 I know it I love it I love it too uh we have one and uh it's getting a flipper rebuild and we're going to bring it back and I love playing dungeon door that was one of my favorite Dam games yeah yeah there's so many great value again all the third party games I talked to uh you know uh uh Nicholas Baldridge uh who's doing some of the best third party mods out there with drained and then bite-sized as well as kind of like a a version of his drain place that he's building himself he did the code his wife uh did the artwork on it it's like a full real game and you know the value add to the P3 system once you have the cabinet and the you know the the the the actual original you know the the base model you can just keep on adding new games that and the value is incredible it's just getting better and better my only issue is they're heavy as hell dude well yeah that's true I mean because there's so much Mex so much mechanical [ __ ] in it right there's a SC there's a screen where there should be just a piece of laminated wood right so like that's say good luck getting yourself you're calling two bu got you got to call Zack Minny get an Les Galera from flipping out pinball there's a there's a plug for Zach uh Harry Potter from Jersey Jack is coming we're hearing $4 million license licensing fee holy Jesus really is that what they're saying that's what I'm hearing holy [ __ ] that's four times Beatles million wow that's four times Beatles yeah that's that's so my question quickly I'm sorry go ahead is can they do they do the first three movies do they do the first three books what's the deal can there no way they can do all seven books I don't even I don't even know if you can do just one movie in a pinball machine just like a like a movie that like that's the first sorcerer uh Stone like you could do the sorcerer Stone you go in you get sorted to your house every I mean you could just do a whole move a whole game about that they're gonna have how many Harry Potter games are there like seven there's like a two and the eight movies and eight movies because they did a two-parter for the final one right for the Deathly Hollows yeah so I know all this [ __ ] cuz I don't I don't I don't I'm a movie guy so like I watched the first two and I understand the appeal I get it the third is the best one you're making a mistake you read it's it's Al abely it's a prisoner of aska ban right yeah dude it's the best one I I like I kind of zoned out out out the second was like yeah I guess it's kind of just more yeah but they're kids the third one is excellent because they're becoming young adults and it's I know there that's what everyone tells me I I I I am I am but but I know I think it's a very rich obviously an incredibly deep uh IP and you could put you you could put so much into it and people are still going to be like oh but you list this moment I love this little like there's all these great little moment it's almost a not win it's a tough it's a tough situation and and Eric he's he's excellent so let's see Eric man Eric man is a genius as well like again I'm not to disparage any Playfield designers like the stuff that these guys are these people are doing in pinball is truly remarkable it blew my mind when Eric minia I saw him on he was like a video tour of J Jersey Jack and I don't know who he was talking to but he was talking about how they designed the underside the Playfield to have the mechanisms not just stick straight down so that the weight they have them kind of tilted at an angle so the way that they're screwed into the Playfield is kind of diagonal so that the weight of the mechs doesn't directly pull down on the fastening like the screws and bolts so that the weight of gravity doesn't like rip them right out and I'm just like there you go that's next level thinking about like engineering man just for the under the Playfield stuff and the stuff he does on top of the Playfield I mean don't even get me started man like I mean it's incredible move machines for a living like we do here I'm sure is up there for sure holy [ __ ] yeah you you might just give yourself a hernia by just trying to move like a pirate I don't try I don't even try again get a lescar get a stair we coffin movers but they suck okay yeah but I think I think Harry Potter's a great IP don't get me wrong I mean it is a bit complicated you know with you know the who the money you know the the rights holder but it's it's kind of a double-edged sword because again you you game like Star Wars for me example right like Star Wars is I'm such a huge Star Wars fan but like it's so hard to do that game because I want so much out of it right and that's only that was only just three movies that I wanted to see let alone like you know all nine movies trying to do like something like that imagine trying to do a Star Wars video game where it covers the from the from the prequels all the way to like the the JJ I don't even prend that Universe exists so we won't talk about that I'm I'm basically like an old test I'm like an Old Testament Star Wars fan I'm like the new testament's great and all that stuff but like the original pre is all that really exists and not the specialized Edition I don't want to go down Star Wars with you because I'll go into Mar Jade and what they should have done and this whole thing and the books know and uh but it's amazing it's amazing and they that Kevin J Anderson fantastic okay I know I know anyhow but but again but going back to Harry Potter I think like it's going to be really hard I think at the end of the day I think people will be happy with what they get because it's like better than nothing you know it's better than it never existing okay so you people have to take that with that consideration like they're going to do their best at jjp to make as many people happy with what they put in there but again it's only a finite space that you can do stuff in there mechanically the 4 million is real they they they got to get their money back somehow so we'll see yeah it's going to be tough economically for sure to justify that expense but I mean at the end of the day I mean if you really think about it like like if you think about the math like the difference between selling you know the amount of games that they sell Target like probably like three maybe four even 5,000 games at the cost of like what what's what's a what's a low level what's the like collector what's the the limited edition $15,000 like 12,000 for 12 cuz I'm Canadian I don't even know what it I think it's 12 to 15,000 okay so 12 to 15,000 us right per game and they they want to sell like at least 3,000 of those so you're making like several million like tens of millions of dollars does it make a difference between you know is it going to kill you if you only make uh 36 million as opposed to like 40 million I don't know like the four million at that point I don't know if that's gonna be a huge like deal breaker barely graduated college so my math I I'm the worst I literally have a learning disability with math which is pretty bad go there all right two more left yeah yeah let's go for it spooky has Beetle juu franie on Art gotta be perfect for Beetlejuice right a huge Beetlejuice fan I think Beetlejuice again that's a that's a property that really gets near and dear to my heart I think Beetlejuice the first one I saw the second one I enjoyed it it's fine you know I'm not watching it I recommend it even if you're if you go as the lowest expectations and you'll be surprised because Michael Keaton really does a great job and it's not just they didn't they didn't go crazy they didn't just make it like just the Beetlejuice movie like like they use Beetle Juice sparingly in the first movie he's something that's always talked about right literally he's talk like oh GE Beetlejuice going to show up wo where's Beetlejuice what's Beetlejuice doing like where's where's poochie where's poochie that's a Simpsons reference but um anyhow so it's about like the buildup of this character and then when he shows up it's like he there's a big payoff right like he's like Larger than Life and they do that they do that in the movie and I think that it's a great theme for pinball because you got the sand worms from Saturn got to have the sand worms you know you've got all kinds it's kind of like I've always wanted a dune pinball machine I want like a sandworm or something to eat a ball I'm obsessed with things eating balls I'm s sorry okay I'm sorry for the Jaws fans out there I was part of the ones leading the charge about why does eat the ball I mean that's the whole point of a shark is that it eats that's the main thing that it does is eat and make little baby sharks that's literally what they say in the movie but anyhow I'd love to see like a sandworm in Beetlejuice i' obviously if you can get Michael Keaton doing the voice that'd be insane even just the call outs like it's showtime folks and multiball starts no brainer Nob brainer you know what I mean like um so I love it the color you know and I think franie does an amazing job with especially evil debt and if he takes that kind of like neon purple sort of like uh fuchsia and uh you know green kind of colors he brings that into like he did a spec Beetlejuice translate If he if he does that treatment for the whole game I mean you got a no-brainer winner right there and that would be a dream theme for me for sure it's such a perfect movie it's a nice IP for them and if they do have it it's it it it makes a lot of sense it's fun it's got star power still obviously like um because of stranger things vona Ryder is still like a relevant name right of course Michael Keon is a relevant name people know that who these actors are you know I think that it's just Tim Burton what's that Deo you got have that multi Harry bellonte man that's the multiball yeah of course you got Banana Boat multiball sure it's got to be it's got to yeah yeah one pinball two pinball three pinle brunch you know like come on it it just writes itself for sure I think that'd be a lot of fun the music is part of it it's great it's quirky it's fun it's got a lot Again comedy comedy is so important in pinball and it's weird because you think that comedy because like hearing a joke again and again if you go to like a standup and you hear their joke again and again you know what the pay the setup and the payoff is you know what the punchline is it's not as fun hearing it like multiple times but it's weird in Pinball it's Unique in pinball because like you take a game like attack from Mars or Medieval Madness like a comedy game I love mimicking the call outs even though I've heard the joke a hundred times thousands of times maybe Rick Morty does a good job with that again a great example Rick and Morty it brings tears they knock that out of the par really it's the call Great Rick and Morty yeah it's so good and like you know like Jeff Parsons did a great job for the what's the the Life the game The Life Game of what's his name Mort or whatever it is um he's like uh Mort died by in his sleep quietly and like it's just like it's just so dead pan and that's what makes it great like I think Jeff Parsons did a great job uh doing like a cameo voice in that as well but again comedy I think it helps as like for me as a pinball player it helps as like a pneumonic device again you talk about learning pinball knowing that I'm going to make this shot and like making an orbit shot on like attack from Mars we're going to build an atomic Blaster like it's just a something that I know and I'll never forget that line in my life you know I mean like like it's just like a fun call out that's silly you know and same thing for Medieval Madness or any other kind of Comedy based game it's part of the learning process of like okay I know where I am because I know that call out I remember that joke and now I know like I need three more shots now that right more comedies in pinb would be fun and be I mean not every not not for everyone well yeah not so I don't know that couch multiball on Seinfeld we could go for we days on or or friends if you're a friends guy I don't know I am a friends guy uh see that's why we can't be friends now cuz I hate friends strictly in the watch every day no I've never laughed any once watching friends even pivot I I'm like yeah that's somewhat funny but that's no like that's no van delay that's no van delay Industries I'll tell you no it's true no it's very true and you want to be my textile salesman U but anyhow yeah but like literally you know at the end of the day if someone who's a DieHard pinball player such as yourself and myself you could literally make a game like Keith elwin could make a game about the phone book as boring as that is and if it's a great game and I still want to play it and it's fun and you do a great like idea and you execute it well and it's engaging and fun and shoots great I'm gonna love that game that's gonna be probably one of my favorite games of all time doesn't matter you know like that the the theme is just what gets like the initial quarter like the initial interest the the attraction right it's it's the play that gets the second dollar and can keep you and sure if it's an engaging thing it'll keep you there like you're engaged with the story and the people and stuff that but like as a just as a as a competitive player like like like that's just another level that's the be beauty of pinball play people play for different reasons they play they do play for just for score and trying to F figure out the exploit of like okay how do I maximize the amount of value of points I can get with the littlest amount of shots and the safest amount of shots I can do that's also part of the hobby you know and that's part of the comp also yeah it it you you get games like I have Jurassic Park in my house right now right and I had never got to the visitor center not me man I finally got to the visitor center and now I want to escape from New blar I'm not good enough it's going to be really hard but the addiction to do that is is what they've we've talked about that earlier is is is what they've done with code has just been phenomenal yeah for sure I mean that's a great Landmark game and again last last question in this segment Alice in Wonderland yeah your favorite we talk about this every week is Allison Wonderland G to ship from DPX this year say it on the record sir oh boy wow you're really putting me on under the spotlight on this one oh my god look I just look I want this is an inside joke for the uh the chat go ahead you you go ahead you can take this anywhere you want well again like I've again like like people who are new to the Hobby and I get it they don't know the history that Dutch pinball has gone through as a company and it's if you look into it and and you go through that incredible like what is it 10 years now it's been 10 years since they first announced the big Labowski I'm not sure it's it's very close to that and they just just finished their main company not just DPX not just like the offshoot bran we're talking about Dutch pinball the main company they just finished their final run of big Labowski and the like the early adopter group that put in their money 10 years ago are just getting their games this year year that's crazy and that gives me as a buyer again I don't have enough money to buy any new inbox pinball machine I'll be completely Frank but if I did it would give me a bit of pause to think okay maybe maybe they' gotten their act together and they've streamlined everything now that's totally very reasonable thing to understand but just take it with a grain of salt when they say we're going to have this all done by the end of like 2025 I think that's a real stretch I think that I don't think that's going to happen I I can guarantee that all the games will not be finished by 2025 I I'm willing to go one deeper and say I don't think a single game will be a single game will be released in 2025 that one game that sounds very unkind it sounds very unkind but just considering the amount of weit time that they needed to go through with lowski now I understand there was a lot of external forces that Dutch pinball had to deal with they lost ypp uh uh uh uh to cancer tragic like just heartbreaking you could have just said you know what our heart's not anymore we lost one of the founders uh Barry could have just walked away and they didn't and I respect them for that and they had a problems with the the manufacturing company that they thought could assemble all these parts and they got basically uh extorted for like paying them more than they agreed to and they would just hold on to the the cabinets and the games like there's crazy stuff that was beyond their control and I get it but Pinball's hard making pinball is hard okay it's really hard and you know say what you will I have other opinions again on the actual like the execution of the theme and the mechanical action and the the the gameplay of the theme that's one thing entirely but in terms of like their competency to to manufacture I don't have as consumer or potential consumer I don't have that much confidence and I don't want to make that like sound something like something I'm trying to hurt them or like hold on to your money don't put I mean most people put their money into it any already so they already have so I'm not really talking anybody out of it and but I'm just just curious yeah just I mean temp I'm just saying people who have invested into it and people are really excited to play it I'm I I I I'm excited to play it too when it's finally finished and ready to go and go out the door and go get into people's like homes and and on I it's go loation balls at uh at Expo and I had fun but I couldn't hit the top so we'll see yeah I heard that was really tough and that's a that's a big shot in the game and it's like vital you know so here we go we got so well I I yes I will go on record I don't know if any money is going to be I'm not beholding to like paying anybody out 10 bucks I'll pay 10 bucks that that one game at least one game will at least one game that will be put on location or a person's home a production game2 a production game will be released in 2025 okay I'll do 10 bucks I'll do 10 bucks American dollars a Canadian that makes a difference that's like $20 Canadian all right I I'll make 10 no no 10 bucks us that's fine I can I can I can hold I can make it all right do we want to talk about the de Jenny's now or or do we want to do the hurry up and then do the degenerates let's do the degenerates and gold to the hurry up sure so all right when did you come up with the degenerate Awards this is the fourth year yes this will be our fourth year it really at first did not in 20122 during the middle of covid when we were all kind of like really getting fatigued and staying at home and and it was difficult because you know you weren't again not having that social aspect of going to see people and there was still a lot of concern about you know it you know a Resurgence constant resurgences new strains and stuff we didn't know we were getting out of this when or whatever so I felt like you know I wanted to do something for again the community that I have on Facebook the pinball degenerate group I wanted to do something that recognizes really not an industry award which again no nothing to knock anybody else out there like the pinball industry Awards and the tppy they all have their like they're the big guys they're the Oscars the Academy Awards and and all that stuff we I wanted to do something very low-key and kind of community focused specifically in this case for you know the people who are making really great stuff and doing really great stuff in the pinball degenerates group so I came up with this kind of like fake award thing that I was just doing out of my you know my bedroom you know and I bought a bunch of awards thanks to David uh the SL from ulick store he helped me you know put together the awards and um yeah I just kind of gave out about you know 15 or 16 Awards and and also there was like the joke at the end where I was kind of razing a couple people because it seems a little self-indulgent sometimes these pinball Awards so at the end of it I I had a secret award at the end of it I gave myself an award I gave myself the dot the degenerate degenerous of all time d o a t not the goat the do degenerous of all time and I gave that to myself and that how I closed off the show but you know really again I wanted to it was really honest it was about recognizing all the awesome people that were my friends most of them or some people I didn't even meet I've never even know there like a guy in Greece who did this amazing restoration and I had to ship a game I to ship a trophy out to Greece which was not inex is not inexpensive let me tell you so but whatever they earned it they deserved it right and they they posted cool stuff about their process and great photos and it was just an amazing job so I had to recognize that and I just felt that you know this was fun and that for me was just going to be like a fun joke one off and then people were like wow that was really fun I really was like really I was just like like just with my headphones in my bedroom just giving out Awards doing dumb jokes and having fun and they're like oh you got to do that again you have to do that again I'm like oh okay sure if people enjoy it I'll do it and so we kind of from there we've slowly kind of evolved and and it's it's very rapidly actually getting more and more uh uh intricate and elaborate so the second one we were on location at Cabin Fever we did it my uh Robin let us do at cin fever we did you know with people playing pinball in the background and we were giving out Awards I built this uh our mascot Billy P ball I built like a mascot to help uh present the awards and we we gave out a bunch of crazy Awards and stuff like that for that night and uh we had a lot of fun people were like oh man you got to do that next time again and I'm like okay sure and then we did it more elaborate but then I was like for the third for the third one I want to do like I don't want to just give out Awards I want to do something kind of like fun that's entertaining cuz you know like the Oscars they don't just give out Awards they do like segments and musical segments and stuff like that so I'm like okay maybe we can do like a little sketch like a kind of a side plot that's going on and so in the third one the third anal degener degener Awards we had our mascot Billy pball get uh kidnapped by these topper terrorists who are ransoming Billy for a Ghostbusters pinball topper and so I was like we do not capitulate to terrorists we do not negotiate with terrorists Billy we love you but like you're on your own man like good luck and so we did this like you know Tarantino esque Reservoir Dogs ton of sequence where billy gets horribly maimed and uh it's like a lot of dark violent stuff that we put in there a lot of dark kind of humor and Billy escapes but he barely escapes with his life he's all bloodied and bandaged and bruised and everything and then we kind of set it up as for this one that's happening the fourth annual pinball degenerate Awards happening March 15th at 800m Eastern 7 P.M Central on YouTube twitch and Facebook it's going to be live uh we'll have a live audience and we're going to find out how Billy Paul Billy pball is doing our mascot and we're going to try to save him because he's in a coma and we need Dr dude the one and only Dr dude to save his life with his excellent Ray so we've got until midnight on the mar on the night of the DeGeneres March 15th to find out if we can raise enough money to pay for his life-saving uh medical operation here uh and we'll see we'll see what happens does he live does he die it's kind of like a reference to like the old school SNL when they had um this bit called Larry the Lobster I don't know if you go back that do you remember Larry the Lobster so they had a lobster and like vote call in and vote if you we should kill Larry or let him live and at the end of the night they said well we had more votes for killing Larry so they boiled the lobster on the show and uh you know a lot of they got a lot of letters I'm sure from the SPCA or whatever but it was a great bit like it like a great way to engage your audience and so hopefully people will really enjoy it we're going to have a live audience here we're going to have all kinds of crazy stuff I don't want to get too I don't want like literally the expectations for this has always been I've told people a million times this is not the Academy Awards it's not the tippies it's not the pinball industry Awards or anything like that the the level of quality and entertainment to that you should expect is basically like what you would expect from a third rate children's beauty pageant okay like like like please just temper your expectations we're going to have a bunch of technical problems I'm sure we're very very ambitious for this but we're bear with us have fun I'm familiar with technical problems it happens every but hey that was out of your hands right like that but and that's what happened internet it was an internet live television live television folks why are you doing it live why don't you do a 30 minute delay I don't even know how to do that on OBS you could do it oh yeah well I I mean it's too late now it's too late thanks for telling me now that next year will be the twibes will be in a 30 minute we'll see I mean I might have a costume malfunction as well so who knows we might have you need if you need any advice I just went through it brother so yeah for sure thank you so much for all the help you've done honestly and and congratulations to you and the whole tppy team I've told you this a million times already privately but uh I just want to say like again you guys did an amazing job Colin you uh uh Aaron and uh Ian even Ian did a great job and of course Ralph Ralph great great host great host they're my friends yeah and they're my friends I got to do the tippies with my friends and I get to do it again next year and we already planning we already did we're doing a debrief next week y we take it serious right yeah but it's fun it's fun right and and you're having with your friends it was an internet outage there's nothing I can do no no no and it was great you guys came right back you guys rallied together and you guys just P pushed through and that's what teamwork and and that's what you do when you're working with your friends right you're not like shouting at each other year be better yeah it's going to be better and better for sure like again um again like you guys are the real professionals I'm just doing a fun thing right I can't wait watch you guys have well we'll see if it even gets to air but we'll see it's going to be kind of like again like it's GNA be kind of like a mixture of like UHF meets like uh The Muppet Show meets uh Saturday Night Live wow I can't wait for I don't know it's gonna be weird day is it again March 15th Saturday night March 15th 800 p.m Easter there yeah it's right there there you go right there on YouTube YouTube twitch and Facebook you're going to use stream I guess even though you're trying to talk me out of it we're going to give it a shot I think you should just do YouTube yeah I mean I just want again like I just want to make it as open as available to people as possible you know what I mean so I I want to have that I know because again like it's all about having fun and like again for the whole that's probably the smart choice to do and everybody's on YouTube like everybody like I use it all every day every day you know what I mean so yeah so so that's great I mean well congrats I can't wait to watch it it's going to be great you're downplaying it way too damn much it's lower your expectations please that's the thing is that lower Lowered Expectations is my Mantra because like if you exceed that that's great if you need it then that's great too because it's like yeah that's as dumb as I thought it was going to be no problem but it's like you can't go any lower than that than really low expectations right you can't be like oh that was a ripoff I paid nothing for that and I wasted my well there you go like you paid nothing like not it was free entertainment what do you want it's free you know so be great but we would appreciate though if people want to donate to the GoFundMe I do have to say uh what are you doing with the GoFundMe you're buying well we're trying to save Billy's life but like you know there's there is actual costs that are associated with this so that hopefully you're not selling any tickets and I think if you we are we are we are selling tickets we are selling tickets we are selling tickets for the live it's only $20 though so it's like a basic like very simple like it's you're going to get one hell of a night for just 20 bucks we have sponsorship from our friends at Reed's uh Distillery they have a great like Jin and seltzer uh like uh mix that they they they're bringing and people can going to have that we're going to have uh lots of fun we're going to have like a lot it's going to be kind of like a little pinball party and it's just kind of like a weird show it's going to be very weird and uh so hopefully it all works uh most you sold the [ __ ] out of it Joe that's a great sale I've been working really hard on it so a lot of my friends and also my friends I gotta say this thing doesn't happen like like again I make that reference to like you know the mupp Muppet Show because like Jim Henson is a big uh influence on me and a big inspiration the late Jim Henson and he had that one song like if one single person believes in you then why not two and if why not two then why not three then why not three then why not four and then why not four now why out more and if all those people can believe in you then you can believe in you too right and that's the whole thing it's like this happens like it's like a weird Snowball Effect where it's like I've got a weird idea and then people are like oh I I want to help that person because they're doing something cool and I want to be part of that and you know what I'm talking about because you've got again like the great team with Ralph Aaron and Ian and and and Colin and everybody organizing everybody behind the scenes Donovan your buddy Donovan like all these people are are just kind of they're not doing it for the money they're not doing for Glory they're not doing it for anything they're doing it because they love pinball and they want to do something really fun and and exciting and something they can look back and go wow that was crazy like we did like a pinball award show and we were like giving out real Awards and we were like it's crazy like like you're only you're only on this Earth for so long right and you got to do stuffs that like pushes you out of your comfort level and stuff that excites you and and makes you and it's fun like don't why are you doing why would you do something if it wasn't fun so all these people that are helping me they're having fun and we're having fun hopefully the night will be fun for everybody and watching and in the audience and just yeah again lower your expectations oh you see you were doing good and then you you you wi lower your expectations though stop that all right are you ready for exciting rapid fire question and answer game called the hurry up now we're going to try rapid fire Joe I'm GNA go quick you're gonna do your best this is Wade's brainchild from the Wormhole simple rap fire questions starting with Canadian Football League or National Football League I hate all football hockey all the way or baseball favorite hockey player of all time Doug Gilmore no question they could have won they could have won the Stan well maybe they would have gone to the Stanley Cup with Montreal in 93 but Wayne Gretzky High stick Doug Gilmore in the face no call and uh then minutes later he scored the winning game in game six and then ended the uh Leaf's hopes for uh going getting to the Stanley Cup I'll never forget Wayne for that and many other things that he's done recently but we're not going to get into the politics of that but uh Doug Gilmore number 93 uh killer I love it yeah man absolutely this one is I'll tell you mine real quick my favorite hockey player of all time is number 22 Mike bossy oh bossy yeah yeah wow yeah Long Long Island New York and uh there's two people out there that are listening that go that know Mike Bost shitty movie but great pinball machine segment time settle the argument once and for all we're going to retire this question pick the best pin out of these two shitty movies that's objective okay Congo or Johnny pneumonic I'm not have to go Congo because I love the call outs I think the call outs in Johnny Monica are okay but they're a little kind of like like it's clearly a keano impersonator and like I'm making a longdistance phone call and like there's there's a couple of those but Congo holy [ __ ] you've got uh uh what's his name Winston from um from [ __ ] Ghostbusters you've got Tim Curry as that's right he in that hippos Zing what does it mean and and uh it's just it's unbelievable like it's just the colos N alone are amazing Amy Amy no like bad gorilla bad gorilla like just such a bad mov isn't it it I loved it as a kid because I was a huge Michael kryon fan by that time and I was deep into the books all of Michael kryton's books and I was excited to see anything after Jurassic Park get turned into a movie including Congo and I love hey man the movie H ends with monkeys like apes getting cut in half by lasers powered by diamonds Diamond terrible It's [ __ ] amazing no that's amazing it's got also Bruce Campbell in the beginning of the G of the movie he he's just there he get uh what's her name no not Laura D Laura Linny Laura Linny yeah Laura Linny yeah yeah so she doesn't Ernie Hudson Ernie Hudson is Ernie Hudson sorry you got Dylan Walsh you got Dylan Walsh you got Tim Curry I mean Tim Curry is amazing he is one of the greatest like bit like character actors of all time I love Tim Curry and I think the shots are amazing and I gotta say I mean some people have maybe mentioned this a little bit but everybody loves Keith elwin's uh first game like first production game Iron Maiden okay and you know what he's gone on record as well before he even released Iron Maiden talking about how much he loves Congo as a game not a movie but he loved Congo if you look at iron mannan and you do a mirror flip of that game you take the Playfield and you flip it uh horizontally it is the exact same layout pretty much almost shot for shot uh as Congo pinball has just been named an Olympic sport oh God and you get to pick four players to represent Canada in the next Olympic Games pick your top four Canadian pinball players to represent you're loveed country number one my boy number one pick number one draft pick Jack tadman I call Jack Papa Jack because he is a father he is a father but I think one day Jack tadman has the skill and the ability to win Papa one day this is your top four man you're not messing around because you know where're going in America yeah I know you guys are gonna kill us still you guys will probably still but number two Robert G from BC number two pick um number three my boy uh Mike Savage we call him saage and the way he he's such a huge guy he's a massively tall guy he's a big guy so he kind of does like the Ken Dryden thing I'm again bring it back to hockey you know how Ken Dryden used to lean on his like hockey stick as a goenda his games are so insanely long okay like he'll get up to like six seven billion on Jaws or something insane on a regular day and be like oh it was okay uh and like he has to sit down he's a big guy it hurts his back to stand for so incredibly long so he sits and we give him all kinds of hell for this you know like Oh Come somebody bring up a chair but he sits on like a a St like a stool he still sits on like a bar stool and he will play for literally hours on like your Iron Maiden on your jaws on uh anything on on Foo Fighters on any modern so that's three number four oh man who's my this one I mean I guess I'm gonna have to go Adam Becker because he is a pinberry retired but I'd say like Adam Becker like he's done so much this is the Olympics Jo he's a pin bar he's an actual leg come out a retirement for the Olympics I'm sure he would yeah and I like if we're just trying to win the gold you know I mean like like we just have stone cone stone Cold Killers you have to go Jack tadman Robert Gano Mike Savage and Adam Becker that's my top four pick all right tiis is gonna be ped with the I mean Tas is great but like you know I mean I don't know are you going to put tiis on like modern games are you going to put him on like Dungeons and Dragons I don't know is he I don't know it's your team I've seen tlis play some of the modern games and he's you know unless it's rush or he knows his stuff when it comes to like like music pins especially the ones that he owns like lead Zeppelin like holy [ __ ] he can put up a clinic on lead Zeppelin like giving you a hard time yeah I love Jeff I love Jeff with the increased fan base of Formula 1 oh wow should Stern do a Formula 1 pin yes or no you know it's funny cuz like you know Gary's always talking about like how things will be successful in the European market I think it would do much better like you do like a a lwis Hamilton yeah themed pinball game I could see that doing very well put him in the new Ferrari right top yeah for sure like I could see like I could definitely see a Ferrari game too like if they can do a Mustang they could definitely or or like Corvette they could do a Ferrari game for sure but going back to F1 like I I do watch some like we have F1 here in Montreal in Canada I've gone to at least four uh f1s and I'm addicted dude I started watching you got to come up to Montreal you got to come to Montreal man I started watching the F1 on Netflix during Co and now we my wife and I don't miss a race yeah that's a that was a great series a lot of people fantastic and the new one is coming just came out so I need to uh watch it because it's it's it's fantastic and uh I'm team yeah and and people don't understand the ruling amount of that is unbelievable like it's unbelievable it's crazy like I can't even like it's hard to just watch them race like and have that concentration it's awesome I think it' be a great pen what Hot Wheels could have been uh I like Hot Wheels Hot Wheels is fun but I think yeah I mean if you have a fast depending on the designer right all depending on the designer if you got a fast flowy game and you get the sound effects of like the rumble of the engine and like just you know speeding out and like crazy like you know call outs and like oh he caught him in the hair pin and just like just crazy yeah high octane entertainment I think there could be a market for it especially in the European market and again like it's great to see it become more and more popular uh you know in North America certainly because of the more the races like you know like Las Vegas and like uh do they have one in Texas they had a Ground Prix inex yeah you got one recently like in the last couple five or six years or something so yeah we're doing really great on this hurry up we're doing good okay I'm sorry that's not but yeah yes I think it would be successful yes all right last couple of questions these are for your because we know you're a film major ladies and gentlemen and I'm not a major I'm a bachelor I'm not a major okay but it was sorry it was my major I'm not a I'm not a what's the word like a master I I'm not I don't have a master's I have a bachelor in Film Production you have a bachelor's in Film Production so you like your film so we're gonna ask you a couple of film questions let's do it okay here we go we're father one or two man that's like that's like like that's like saying like Star Wars New Hope or or Empire cuz like you can't have the second one no matter how Superior the second one is it sets the first one sets the groundwork of the first one um I'm still going to have to go with the first one I'm a purist and like it's not like it's not like Empire where like there's like it doesn't work without the first one this like Godfather 2 you can still kind of understand the concept and go into it without having to have too much of a backstory but you've got you've got you don't have in Godfather 2 even though you do have Robert dairo which is amazing I mean come on you do have that but you don't have Marlin brand very like there's only the answer is two you know but but but Marlon Brando is the Godfather like when I think in my brain that is Marlin BR it's not it's not his son Michael it's not Pacino when I think of The Godfather I'm thinking of look what they did to my boy they Massac my boy like that's that's the Godfather that is the Godfather it's Brando number one he chooses which Stanley kubric movie oh wow would make a great pinball machine holy [ __ ] uh right off the bat I The Shining would be amazing you break down the door and Shelly Deval great answer just get in there that's perfect and you know it just it's got so many great call outs and music is amazing I love you know the haunting you know music of the of The Shining uh again would be a great horror theme you you wouldn't really have much room for comedy because it's a pretty straight laced uh kind of atmospheric movie it's not really like even a a horror movie like there's very little violence until the very very end right it's all about like mental insanity and if you can if you could like relate that another one would be great would probably be like uh you know one of the more kind of popular crowd pleases would be Clockwork Orange for sure like you could probably do a great Clockwork Orange like you lock your you lock your three droes you know and then you go out for a night of Ultraviolence multiball you know like like I can see I mean there's some problematic scenes that you might want to stay away from in a clock Orange um I don't think that you could like 2001 that wouldn't work it's just so like cerebral and slow I think yeah for sure The Shining would work great cuz that's a huge crowd I The Shining is probably can't do you can't do you can't do like um you know eyes wide shot no well eyes wide shot very weird but you know or like you know um Full Metal Jacket would be too much full metal pinball I don't know that's not gonna work it's too dark um I would think like more the crowd pleaser kind of like kind of more um sort of like maybe I'm missing one that's just out of left field that I just can't remember because did so many different great genres he was a master the great thing about cubric is that every time he did like a new movie it was a different genre a completely different direction right right and people would at the time they'd go oh this is no Like Clockwork Orange is like that's no Doctor Strange Love or they so like oh Doctor Strange Love that's that's that's no 2001 they'd always be like compar it to the previous movie and then when when Eyes Wide Shut came out he passed away and then people didn't like really adopt it till much later and like appreciate it because they're always comparing it to his previous movie which by the time his next movie came out it was considered like a masterpiece you know what I mean so I think hopefully enough time has come where we could talk about it you know about what if if eyes white shut is a great movie I think it's a pretty interesting movie but definitely not a pinball movie not not a pinball theme you're you're literally just throwing your money away if you by the IP of a like eyes wide shut all right last question for you sir I'm so sorry it was taking so long you talking about movies now I'm talking about movies now which I love even more than pinball I'm sorry to say no one the hurry up and I let it go because I like it and I don't care matter it's my show all right who cares hopefully people are still listening they are okay they are so we're at an hour and 20 minutes oh my God so this is what we're going to do we're going to the last question yes what the hell is PE meal bacon and that's the pickiest eater you'll ever meet will I ever eat any of this okay do you like ham yeah I like ham okay that's basically what P bacon is it's a loin is pork loin it's a cured a salt cured pork loin okay like a pork chop like you take a pork chop right I love pork chops okay so you take the swine hey I D on swine too man I'm Italian they say Italians love like eating pork so much that if Italians could figure out how to cook the Oink they would eat it do you know what I'm saying yeah I don't know if you can get that joke but anyhow um so okay so a pean bacon is basically a pork loin you take the bone out like you would have in a pork chop and then you brine it in like a saltwater brine like a like a wet brine okay and you brine it for like a day or two and then they used to as a a sort of again it's not bacon it's not the belly it's like British bacon like what they would call like you know rashers and stuff or American style which is the most of the bacon that I eat if when I'm eating bacon is like stri bacon from the belly okay that's real bacon that's actual real bacon not the Canadian bacon crap we call it pil it's not again it's like if you're not from Canada I get it you call it Canadian bacon but if you're in Canada or in Toronto which is like the home of the pil bacon sandwich okay if you come to Toronto you got to have you got to must have you it's like going to Chicago and not having deep dish pizza like it's like or going to going to Austin not having barbecue like you're insane like you did not experience Austin Texas if you didn't have barbecue for Christ sake you have brisket you know I can't wait to go to Toronto hang with you and get some pea meal bacon yeah so they slice it they they wrap it in what used to be ground up piece but now it's not ground up piece because that's too expensive and it's not really tasty they just roll it in corn um cornmeal now okay they roll it in cornmeal so there's no pee in the Pea meal bacon anymore they roll it in cornmeal and then they just like sort of like leave it to like sort of in the fridge to like set up and then you slice it pretty you know thi pretty uh not super thin but like pretty thin slices like you would ham like slices of ham and you fry that up in a pan and then you throw it in a bun like a kaiser roll maybe a little bit of like uh like if you want some mustard like I like personally I like a hot honey mustard like something sweet and a little spicy in there and that it's just like this perfect the the bacon is so salty and fatty and it's got a bite to it unlike like bacon which I personally like people different kinds of bacon that I'm a foodie guy too so you hear me talking about three things pinball movies and food the like my top things I rant perfect this is what I Tred to do this is all my wheelhouse man so bacon people have different preferences and how they like to cook their bacon I like crispy I like semi Krispy bacon like I like it not to be like shatter in your mouth like glass but pretty close like a good chew but like not chewy like it's like like I'm chewing on some rubber anyhow so but peil bacon you don't doesn't get that weight because it doesn't have the fat right so you can fry it it gets just so it gets warm through you don't want to overcook it go get dry you just cook it through like you would ham like a ham sandwich and the the it just melts apart in your mouth all the different little like fibers break apart in your mouth and you just chew it and it just melts in your mouth it's beautiful it's literally like our n like not our city sandwich like we used to call Toronto hog town because there was so many pigs that slaughtered it's a real thing they used to call Toronto hog town as a nickname because they slaughtered and sent out so many pigs across North America to like New York state which of course yeah you you know like you you know very well and and uh all all across North America but like yeah like all across like the Eastern Seaboard Toronto was like the epicenter of pig slaughter in in North America well congratulations on that yeah we we hey man we and and there's very few places you got to go to what in Toronto there's St Lawrence Market they have the carousel Bakery that's the best place to get a fresh kaiser roll that's baked that morning they got the best pean meal bacon sandwiches at the even Anthony Bourdain when he the late great Anthony Bourdain who is like a spirit animal to me uh late great Anthony bour I loved him and he came to Toronto that was like one of the first things he tried and he loved it so you got to come to Toronto have a pean meal bacon sandwich have some Poutine have all kinds of different crazy stuff that we have up here in nor up we have a lot of hearty food because it's cold you got to stay warm you got to carb up you know so that's that's great thank you so much for today I really app you thank you honestly great time with you I had a really great time with you thank you so much where can people find you and your podcast again oh I don't know if they want to find me but digitally you can find me yeah just on Facebook um I also have a really dumb uh kind of a joke Instagram account called pinb butts and it's basically I just went through all the artwork and back glasses and Playfield art of all the pinball machines I could find to find all the butts like male female even animal butts any kind of butts I've just cataloged on this Instagram but you can you can you know message me on that it's kind of a joke account that I became my default account when I lost my original account to hackers but uh yeah on Facebook you can find me Joe cherino and on obviously on the pinball degenerates page uh I'm there and yeah just just answer three simple questions like just to prove you're only three questions yeah I mean even if you don't have an ifpa number it's just there as like a placeholder to make sure that like the Bots aren't like putting like my number is 1 two three four five six I'm like I'm pretty sure that's not your IPA number buddy so you're not getting in so yeah just I mean if you don't have an IPA number don't worry about it just let me know what your favorite pinball machine is and agree that you're not going to be a jerk in the group and then you're in and you're in and watch the degenerate Awards pin fourth annual March 15th maybe the last who knows how it goes you got this all right Joe what a pleasure thank you so much sir I had a great time with you thank you for hanging with me and uh getting to know you a little more it was awesome I appreciate it me too I appreciate it very much thank you so much all right brother that was fun as always long boy Joe and I can talk huh uh when I first met Joe I actually didn't even think he was a real person I was like this person is the most excited and nice person I've ever met this is a character true this isn't real and uh he really is genuine and that's why I like him he's just excited and uh he was excited to be on the podcast and that warms my heart so thank you so much Joe today is March 4th I'm still kind of decompressing from the tippies a little bit uh but I did have the best time hanging out with my friends and Ian Aaron Ralph and and and Colin thank you for giving me this opportunity there nothing we can do with internet outage but I think we did a really good job and hopefully you guys liked it if you want to see the twi again the vods are up on YouTube but check out content made by retro Ralph uh he made a YouTube video about the entire weekend it is a fantastic recap and he also then went through and did another recap on his is uh the flip side on his podcast so thank you retro Ral for that that was very very nice excellent article as well written by Ian jakobe of nudge magazine they both cover the weekend very very well so I don't really need to talk about that anymore uh speaking of YouTube we're going to be making the switch ladies and gentlemen we're going to be ditching twitch and I'm sorry we had a good run on Twitch uh but I think it's time to say goodbye so honestly we want to broadcast from 4K moving forward and I can't do it twitch and so I hope you follow us from twitch to YouTube on March uh uh at at tpf that will be streamed on YouTube and not our twitch channel so I'll give you ample notice of that um next big event again is tpf I can say we're bringing devil King by techno playay check that one out we're bringing a guer conversion kit com uh the pinball is called Skyhigh that is wild total ripoff of uh Never Ending Story and we are bringing an Alvin n g football and uh we're also bringing Pulp Fiction we're going to bring that pul fiction and uh there's going to be a little topper on it by Electric Playground so I'm excited to say that uh and we're going to actually please stop by our booth at tpf because we're going to have a little scaled down Booth I think we went a little crazy sometimes with the big walls but we're going to scale the booth down but electric payon's going to be right next to us and then Friday night we're going to do a happy hour so stay tuned for more information about the happy hour at tpf and then Saturday night we're going to be streaming the Texas pinball Festival uh Wizards tournament live on YouTube not twitch and very excited to be streaming that for my fourth year in a row thanks again Joe for coming on this was a long podcast so I'll just leave you with thank you thank you guys for everything thank you for the community thank you for embracing the worm all and treating me as nicely as you do I really appreciate it God bless you [Music]

_(Acquisition: youtube_mirror_subs, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: ebc4e5db-73c8-40ee-a0a3-8cabe1e6b2a4*