# Jaws 50th Pinball: Awesome Edition or Stupid Idea?

**Source:** LoserKid Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2025-07-03  
**Duration:** 73m 23s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://zencastr.com/z/bVT2qDwq

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## Analysis

Loser Kid Pinball Podcast hosts Josh Roop and Scott Larson discuss the newly released Jaws 50th Anniversary pinball machine, code updates for John Wick and X-Men, Stern's new budget topper line, and controversy over AI-generated artwork in Wizard Edition Arcade. They debate whether the 50th is a smart limited release strategy or a sign of market saturation, analyze ongoing code quality issues with X-Men's unique layout, and touch on AI artifact concerns in recent releases.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Jaws 50th Anniversary is limited to July-December production only (roughly 500 units implied) — _Josh states Stern is 'only making these from July to December. So you're either in on the bandwagon or you've missed the boat, essentially.'_
- [HIGH] Jaws 50th offers more features than a Premium at the same cost, positioned as middle ground between Premium and LE — _Josh: 'they're releasing a game that's better than a Premium because you're getting more features than you would with a Premium at the same cost as a Premium, and it's cheaper than an LE.'_
- [HIGH] X-Men has significant manufacturing tolerance issues that require tight calibration, causing inconsistent play between units — _Scott: 'every last one played different. They all, geometry-wise, were not on par... the tolerance window is way bigger' and notes four machines at Expo all played differently._
- [HIGH] Tim Sexton and Wason are no longer leading code efforts on John Wick and X-Men; Wason moved to different project — _Josh: 'Tim Sexton's no longer there. Wason's no longer on lead. I've heard he's moved on to a different project.'_
- [MEDIUM] Ray Day is praised as tournament-level coder capable of revitalizing older games like Walking Dead — _Josh suggests Ray Day could fix John Wick and X-Men code issues: 'Ray Day could totally do it because he is a tournament level player'_
- [HIGH] Jaws and Godzilla retain value well compared to John Wick and X-Men secondary market losses — _Josh: 'Jaws and Godzilla are proving to retain their value for the Pro, Premium, and LE standard levels... not near compared to what everyone else is losing on the market. It's not what we've seen on like John Wick and X-Men'_
- [MEDIUM] AI artifacts were discovered in Wizard Edition Arcade playfield artwork, including a malformed 'Derpy Dragon' with eyes on one side of head — _Josh mentions 'blatant AI derp—the Dragon... Dragon's now been officially named Derp... it's got two eyes on one side of the head'_
- [MEDIUM] Stern's new $400 modular topper system uses reusable $300 mount with swappable $100 plastic pieces — _Josh discusses: 'a $300 mounting piece, $100 topper... a reusable mount' as breakdown of the $400 total topper cost_

### Notable Quotes

> "So you're either in on the bandwagon or you've missed the boat, essentially, right?"
> — **Josh Roop**, ~10:30
> _Describes Jaws 50th's limited window strategy and FOMO effect_

> "They're releasing a game that's better than a Premium because you're getting more features than you would with a Premium at the same cost as a Premium, and it's cheaper than an LE."
> — **Josh Roop**, ~11:00
> _Explains the value proposition and positioning of Jaws 50th in Stern's three-tier model_

> "You're not going to get a blockbuster pickup on this unless you get someone who's an established, well-gifted coder for rule sets... elite players who know about these games, they are not going to spend the time to keep playing these games if the code is not deep enough to warrant their time."
> — **Josh Roop**, ~20:45
> _Identifies tournament-level code quality as essential for revitalizing older games_

> "Every last one played different. They all, geometry-wise, were not on par... the tolerance window is way bigger."
> — **Scott Larson**, ~26:15
> _Documents X-Men's manufacturing consistency problem across multiple units_

> "Stern definitely has the track record to say, 'Hey, we're not going to completely abandon games even if they don't sell as well as other games.'"
> — **Josh Roop**, ~31:00
> _Acknowledges Stern's commitment to post-release code support despite commercial underperformance_

> "It looks like a popsicle... They're going for the Fourth of July."
> — **Josh Roop**, ~15:20
> _Describes the polarizing art package aesthetic of Jaws 50th Anniversary_

> "Lyman came in and totally resurrected that game... there are people who are like, 'Hey, I want to get a Walking Dead because I like the Walker bomb modes.'"
> — **Josh Roop**, ~22:15
> _References successful code redesign example that could apply to troubled Stern releases_

> "I don't own toppers. I just don't. I'd rather put something into my game that affects the gameplay."
> — **Josh Roop**, ~37:45
> _Expresses preference for functional mods over cosmetic toppers_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Josh Roop | person | Co-host of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; physician; pinball collector and enthusiast |
| Scott Larson | person | Co-host of Loser Kid Pinball Podcast; physician; pinball collector and enthusiast |
| Loser Kid Pinball Podcast | organization | Long-running independent pinball podcast (6 years, 1M+ views/listens, 9,000+ subscribers) focused on casual/home player perspectives |
| Jaws 50th Anniversary | game | New limited-edition release from Stern Pinball with cosmetic upgrades (powder coating, chrome rails, glitter playfield) at Premium price point, limited July-December 2024 |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; subject of discussion regarding release strategy, code quality, and topper innovation |
| John Wick | game | Stern pinball machine receiving major code overhaul with new designers taking over from Tim Sexton and Wason; criticized for poor secondary market retention |
| X-Men | game | Stern pinball with unique playfield layout by Jack Danger; plagued by manufacturing tolerance issues and code problems; half-baked release requiring ongoing support |
| Godzilla | game | Stern pinball known for strong pandemic-era sales anchor and value retention; referenced as comparison to Jaws 50th Anniversary |
| Ray Day | person | Tournament-level pinball code designer; worked on Metallica Remastered and Led Zeppelin; suggested as potential savior for troubled John Wick/X-Men code |
| Jack Danger | person | Designer of X-Men playfield layout; praised for unique innovation but layout requires tight manufacturing tolerances |
| Lyman | person | Tournament code designer; resurrected The Walking Dead with major code overhaul; referenced as template for revitalizing underperforming games |
| Tim Sexton | person | Former lead code designer for John Wick and X-Men; no longer involved in updates |
| Wason | person | Former lead code designer for John Wick and X-Men; moved to different project |
| Flippin' Out Pinball | company | Pinball distributor/retailer; Loser Kid sponsor offering $500 discount on Funhouse Classic/LE with LOSERKID promo code |
| Funhouse | game | Classic Bally Williams machine being discussed as reference point for accessible game design; available in Pedretti remake and classic versions |
| Wizard Edition Arcade | game | Stern release with controversial AI-generated artwork artifacts discovered in playfield design; features malformed 'Derpy Dragon' |
| Davey | person | Custom mod creator; provided Davey Stumbler buoy-of-death mod for Josh's Jaws machine; noted for above-and-beyond customer service |
| Larry DeMar | person | Original Funhouse designer; referenced in context of Pinball Expo appearance and interview |
| Pedretti | company | Pinball remake manufacturer producing modern versions of classic games including Funhouse |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Jaws 50th Anniversary strategy and market positioning, Code quality and design issues with John Wick and X-Men, Manufacturing tolerance and consistency problems in modern Stern games, Secondary market value retention of recent Stern releases, AI-generated artwork controversy in Wizard Edition Arcade
- **Secondary:** Stern's new modular topper system and pricing, Funhouse remake comparison and accessibility in classic games, Tournament-level code design as marker of game quality

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.45) — Hosts are generally positive about Jaws 50th Anniversary as a product strategy but express serious concerns about X-Men's execution, manufacturing issues, and recent code quality. They acknowledge Stern's efforts to improve through code updates but indicate skepticism about whether fixes will be sufficient. AI artwork controversy adds negative note. Overall tone is experienced, critical but constructive.

### Signals

- **[community_signal]** Tournament-level code quality identified as essential metric for game success and longevity; elite players will abandon games without sufficient competitive depth (confidence: high) — Josh: 'You're not going to get a blockbuster pickup on this unless you get someone who's an established, well-gifted coder... elite players... they are not going to spend the time to keep playing these games if the code is not deep enough'
- **[competitive_signal]** Jaws 50th Anniversary positioned as middle-tier option between Premium and LE; includes LE-adjacent features (glitter playfield) at Premium price point for limited July-December window (confidence: high) — Josh: 'they're releasing a game that's better than a Premium... same cost as a Premium, and it's cheaper than an LE... limited. They don't number them, but Stern has said they're only making these from July to December'
- **[design_philosophy]** AI-generated artwork artifacts discovered in Wizard Edition Arcade; specifically a malformed dragon with eyes positioned incorrectly on same side of head, dubbed 'Derpy Dragon' (confidence: medium) — Josh: 'blatant AI derp—the Dragon... Dragon's now been officially named Derp... it's got two eyes on one side of the head'
- **[design_philosophy]** Jack Danger's unique X-Men playfield layout requires such tight manufacturing specifications that standard production tolerances create unplayable variations; design innovation exceeds manufacturing capability (confidence: high) — Scott explains X-Men layout is 'so unique, so unique, but it had to be so specific that there wasn't much of a... tolerance on the machining'
- **[market_signal]** Jaws and Godzilla demonstrate strong secondary market value retention compared to John Wick and X-Men; hosts report $200-300 typical loss vs much steeper declines on other titles (confidence: high) — Josh: 'Jaws and Godzilla are proving to retain their value... not near compared to what everyone else is losing on the market. It's not what we've seen on like John Wick and X-Men'
- **[personnel_signal]** Code development leadership shift on John Wick and X-Men; Tim Sexton and Wason no longer lead with Wason moving to different project; suggests internal reorganization or performance issues (confidence: high) — Josh: 'Tim Sexton's no longer there. Wason's no longer on lead. I've heard he's moved on to a different project.'
- **[market_signal]** Jaws 50th Anniversary represents Stern's continued aggressive limited release strategy; adding Premium-level features at Premium price point raises questions about margin management across three-tier model (confidence: high) — Josh notes Stern is adding glitter playfield, powder coating, chrome rails to 50th but charging same as standard Premium, potentially eating costs or having excess materials
- **[announcement]** Stern introduced new modular LED topper system at $400 (reportedly $300 mount + $100 swappable panel) to capture third-party topper market (confidence: high) — Josh describes new system as 'designed so you can swap out that piece' with reusable mount and replaceable plastic artwork panels
- **[product_concern]** X-Men has significant manufacturing tolerance issues causing gameplay inconsistency across units; four machines at Expo all played differently despite being new (confidence: high) — Scott: 'every last one played different. They all, geometry-wise, were not on par... tolerance window is way bigger'; also notes even experienced players struggle to dial it in
- **[sentiment_shift]** X-Men experiencing negative community reception despite initial launch excitement; described as 'falling flat' with tournament players abandoning game due to code depth issues (confidence: high) — Josh: 'for something that everyone was so excited for when it first came out, yeah, it felt like—it feels like it's really falling flat, right?'
- **[technology_signal]** Jaws 50th strategy may signal market saturation with limited releases; hosts note polarized community response and concern about negative FOMO messaging ('Don't buy day one') (confidence: high) — Josh: 'I feel like Stern's kind of shooting themselves in the foot' with anniversary strategy; notes some customers held off buying standard Jaws specifically to see 50th

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## Transcript

 thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast more than that thank you to the over million views and listens that we've had through loser kid pinball podcast in the six years we've been doing this absolutely insane over 9 000 subscribers across our platforms my co-captain with me today. Scott Larson. And Scott, can you believe that? Like that is, that is insane. It, okay. It makes me happy because when you and I started this, uh, well, when you asked me if I want to do this, I'm like, yeah, sure. Why not? Um, I, I just thought this would be a fun thing to do. A fun thing to talk to someone because you know, as, as dad collectors, a lot of times we don't have time to, to enjoy our hobby with other enthusiasts. Yeah. I figured this was a good outlet for you and I just to talk on a regular basis. It's turned into a lot more than I imagined because you and I talk, well, we at least message every day. Yeah. And, you know, I call and talk to you, you know, a couple of times a week. So it's been great that we've developed our friendship and also developed a lot of relationships in pinball that have been really fun. And it really reinforces my, the reason why I got into pinball is because I needed an escape from drama in life. and I know that pinball has drama, but you can find happiness and enjoy where you're looking for it too. And it's been a great fun thing. And I've loved everybody who's been able to reach out to us. And we've been able to, to meet some really awesome people through doing this. So again, thank you guys for listening to us. A quick behind the scenes. So when Scott says that we talk to each other like once or twice a week and we message every day, it's funny because I will call Scott and I'm like, what are you doing right now? He's like, I'm just standing over a body. like are you working right now and he's like yeah but it's not a big deal like like i imagine him like standing with like five other doctors operating on someone like yeah we're just removing something from some orifices it's no big deal you can talk to what you need i'm not scrubbed in this is me monitoring in the background so you know he you you can talk occasionally when when there's nothing major going on in surgery so yeah yeah this guy's just he's he's belly side down we're working on his it's okay we're working on his back yeah yeah Oh, you know, the other great thing that has been a part of Loser Kid almost since the beginning, flipping out pinball. And there has been some amazing pinball machines that have been released in the last three, four weeks. There's been a whirlwind. And you can get them all from Zach and Nicole many at flipping out pinball. We highly recommend it. And we actually worked out a deal. I haven't told Scott about this. We have a deal for our listeners right now. If you use code LOSERKID in the discount spot while checking out at Flip N Out Pinball when you buy a Funhaus Classic Edition or a Funhaus LE Edition, doesn't matter which edition, you get $500 off. That's a pretty good deal, especially on the Classic Edition. That puts it under $7,000. Yeah. If you're looking for a Funhaus and those classic Bally Williams, there's a reason why they still resonate with people. Oh, yes. They're accessible. You understand what's going on very easily in them. Hint, hint. We'll talk about that. And, okay, I think the Funhaus Classic is awesome. So if you're looking for a Funhaus, that's a great deal. I'm excited because I've been looking for a Funhaus. Hint, hint. Wink, wink. Yeah. And so one of these might be going behind me to see what comes in. Okay. And what are you doing with it, Josh? With the Funhaus? No, with the one behind you. You guys... i'll i'm i'm trading one out to bring one in let's put it that way but okay all right i'm excited because i want i talked about this last expo right like we were we were there with larry damar the man the myth the legend right and having a great time on house shirt by the way oh yes and we're playing fun house and fun house is a game that got me into pinball right like yeah i got into pinball i saw the world of pinball 14 years ago and loved every second of it right And then it became that like I quietly studied and researched what I should get. And at the time, Fireside Studios had Pinball Arcade. So I loved it because I just downloaded it on my phone. I downloaded Funhaus. I downloaded Attack from Mars. I downloaded Medieval Madness. So I gained a love for these classic Bally Williams. And I just fell in love with Funhaus. It's the bashing a marionette head that's harassing you and you showing it who's boss. and so and and i bally williams still resonate with people nowadays right like so i'm super excited to get this in the house and see how i've owned cgcs i love cgcs i want to see how pedretti has done right with how they compare you bet yes i i've got my hands on a couple different ones i've enjoyed it i'm ready to pop the hood take a look underneath and tell our listeners our viewers because everyone out here there is money to be to to be used in the pinball hobby and we're seeing it right like people are waiting to see what is being released like the game that released today uh and they're deciding where that money is going right and so maybe this can help them decide whether or not it's worth it to them to bring in a fun house or or some game like that So, yeah, I guess that transitions to our next thing. Jaws 50th. Let's stop being around the bush. It released today. What did you think, Scott? Well, I'm wearing my 4th of July hat today because, as we know, amity means friendship. And the 4th of July is when Jaws happened. And I am also wearing my Jaws shirt. So, okay. First question, why was it made, right? That's the first thing you say. It's like, okay, so they're making Josh – Jaws. They're making Josh. Making Josh, making more Joshes. Okay, they're making Jaws, and they're selling Jaws actually quite well as it is. And so making a special edition, I don't know. From a marketing standpoint, I'm wondering about it. However, it's different enough but similar enough that I think it gives people options. and people who are on the fence may actually consider getting this. So I can see why. I can see why. It's going to easily sell 500 additional units. And you add that to Stern's coffers and it certainly helps out. And it's very minimal investment on them. They just happen to do some cosmetic changes. What are your thoughts on JAWS? I find it interesting, right? Like it's very, I'll point this out and I don't know if this is weird to you or not, but we've been talking about like they're doing these anniversaries, right? Jurassic Park, Godzilla, Jaws, Elvira. The interesting part is outside of Elvira, all of them have been Elwins. Like what happens if there's an Avengers 30th coming or something like that, you know? Yeah. So I don't, it's funny because people are complaining like, why are they making these anniversaries? It's just lowering the cost of, because like realistically, If you look at this, they're releasing a game that's better than a premium because you're getting more features than you would with a premium at the same cost as a premium, and it's cheaper than an LE. So you're getting like this in the middle between a premium and an LE. They're limited. They don't number them, but Stern has said they're only making these from July to December. So you're either in on the bandwagon or you've missed the boat essentially, right? Yeah. I just, it's really weird to me because what kind of message does this send to the rest of the community? Don't buy day one if you want a slightly more limited product to see how it turns out, how it does, and see how, I mean, Jaws 50th, it's funny, I've talked to a bunch of people that love this game and they're like, well, I want to see what the 50th looks like. So they actually held out on buying the game. And then I've heard a mixed bag today of how it's going to go. I don't know how much longer this can go because I feel like Stern's kind of shooting themselves in the foot. I think originally the idea was supposed to be LEs. And after the LE community was like, no, stop doing that. We're going to stop buying LEs if you keep making... You told us there's only 500 to 1,000 of these, of Godzilla. And you made another 500? You're making ours less valuable because of it. Which is kind of subjective in its own right. But overall, I think it's a great move for Stern in the fact that it's more product that they can offer to their consumer. But I think it's a short-term gain and maybe a long-term loss. What do you think? So they've done this before. We know that they have the Lucy Edition on ACVC. They have the Catwoman Edition on Batman 66. So this isn't unprecedented. Having a limited supply, again, it caters to some people. I have it and you don't have it. Therefore, it holds value to that. I've never quite understood that because you're always going to have some products that are going to be limited, exclusive, so to speak. Guns and Roses, you want the standard edition. That is going to be the most rare edition. They made less than like 150 of them or something. Oh, yeah. uh if you want uh if you want a galactic tank force um you and less than 50 other people can have that game so you remember mafia mafia they were going to make like a hundred of yeah and i think they trimmed it down like 50 like it's it's got to be one of the rarest games out there too yeah so again if if the rarity is what driving your purchasing power fine but that it seems like the wrong focus i want the best option of the product to be available to people and if they like this now there are some people who are going to like this version of this now it has powder coating which is cool it's a it's a different color it has some uh you know some chrome painted uh rails it's still still a premium and so i don't think that the le people should feel completely shut out because it doesn't have the you know it doesn't have the shaker motor it doesn't have the speaker lights it doesn't have all that other stuff so i i think that that still gives you like the value um but if you're like on the edge you may actually get over the top and say hey this is something i really want to get so you don't think that it signals a flag from stern saying either a they have more extra in the bill of material for for jaws when they charge up front for a regular premium or they're eating some of the costs by putting extras into the 50th anniversary because the price is the same so it makes no sense of like why are we adding extras right for a product that at the same cost they're probably eating some of the cost i don't see it being that big of a deal to put a powder coating on the you know on the trim that can't be that expensive for them um you know putting a gold tint on the on the habit trails again they can't be that expensive it's not like they're adding hey now you have a shaker motor now you have expression lights now you have a topper and then you're getting into more of a bill of material but having like a little bit to differentiate and glitter in the play field that's the glitter play field yes so so yeah is there something are people going to be annoyed sure but i i don't see it being that significant of an issue now i didn't buy jaws by the way so like that was my first l1 where i'm like you know i think i'm just going to hold off this i actually okay let's talk about the r package though um and uh by the way even before it started going around um i in our in our chat with the triple drain guys the first thing i said is this looks like a popsicle it really does it looks like one of those july 4th popsicles with the the red white and blue um now we have also said sometimes pictures cannot show how good something looks in person that and and we've also been on a on a side where they've released something and people have been polarized by the, the art or the Chrome, I guess, um, attack from Mars, the Ellie. So it's this green color and, and there was so much backlash. CGC said, fine, we'll let you pick the color. You can get it in black. You can get it in green. I think they even offered like one other, I can't remember which one and over 90, 90 people, 90% of the people finally just said let's just get the green including me um so i think it does look it'll probably look better in person than what the snapshot is uh it is it is certainly bold though and it will stand out in your lineup if you pick this color you're just like okay it will get noticed definitely i personally i obviously own jaws that's here over my shoulder with the little Davey Stumbler buoy of death mod attached in there. Heck yes. I can see it waving. I know. You can watch the little... It looks just like a buoy. And the way it floats is awesome. Davey, amazing, dude. And he had to deal with my crap. I'm like, should it do this? And he's like, no, I'll send you a new part. I'm like, you don't have to do that, man. And he's like, what about... Is this meant to do this? He's like, no, no, I'll send you another part. I'm like, Davey, you don't need to do that. You're amazing, Davey. Above and beyond. above and beyond i saw the one today i was slightly underwhelmed um just because i felt like the artwork um it did look like the le uh which is fine i feel like the poster just it's essentially the movie poster the classic movie poster just posted everywhere right which is fine like a lot of people love that that's that's great i personally like the Michael Barnard pov back glass the fact of uh like he's about to die he's got a hatch in his hand he's about to chop the the shark to death uh i think it brings a lot more character i love i love the side art i mean this this game has a lot of character in the art uh and i really appreciate that um and granted you still have that art on the play field uh but i just like you said it looks like a popsicle which they're going for the fourth of july this will be the best fourth of july we ever had or whatever you know. It just I don't know. This one is not for me. I saw it and I was like I'm not upgrading. I'm very very happy with what I have and it feels weird because I feel like it's been very polarizing. I feel like people have either loved the new one or they're like hot garbage. But there are a lot of people that don't own a Jaws that love Jaws and are going for this 50th anniversary because it looks amazing to them. You know, I, okay, I had said behind the scenes, I'm like, I don't really care. I'm not really interested. I've seen Jaws. I have, my friend has a Jaws like two blocks away. I can go play it. And I saw this, I'm like, I may buy this because it does look cool and it will stand out in your lineup. So it's, I'm eating my own words and saying that this art package and this kind of extra bling may tip me over the top to get one. And we're hearing that Jaws is doing fairly well. It's not doing as great as Godzilla, but it's still up there for sales. It's still good. And considering Godzilla, Godzilla is a unicorn. It came out in pandemic times when nobody was able to do anything, and they were looking for entertainment in their home. I don't think it's that. Look at how long it's extended past that, too. Sure. Okay. But it launched and anchored. It got an anchor at that time. And it still is a great game. I am. I'm not downplaying it at all, by the way. I think that it just it had such a great anchor that it still has some legs from that. And I would argue like Adam's family, the same thing. It has an anchor and it has legs from there. You know, medieval madness, a good anchor and legs. So. So the overall question, Jaws 50th, is it worth it? I'd say thumbs up. I'd say absolutely. Would I sell if I had one to sell it to get this? That would be subjective if you like the R package. It's the same as, hey, Godzilla, would you sell it to get the 70th? and for me, I thought the 70 was really cool, and I got one from my friend, and I think it looks great, but it's not something I wanted to swap out my current one for, but there may be people who are like, I like the bling. I like the loud art package, and I think it's good. I personally think if you're looking for a JAWS, you don't own a JAWS, it is worth the value. I think that it brings a little bit of rarity to it so if you're concerned about losing value over time Jaws and Godzilla are proving to retain their value for the premium in the LE standard or levels and so even if you lose two three hundred bucks that is not near compared to what everyone else is losing on the market it's not what we've seen on like John Wick and X-Men yes which we'll talk about here in a second But I think overall, if you get this, you're going to be very happy with it. If this is your style you're looking for. Like I said, I personally like the premium that already came out. They still have these in stock at Flip N Out Pinball, too. So if you want to get your hands on one of these. Someone said I tired of the shark ball thing Someone said it would sell gangbusters if they put the shark eating ball mod on it i like no no you and i saw expo you saw it looked original model it looks like a potato yeah yeah it a flush colored potato yeah let's just say it did not look good no it did not look good it's um all the jokes about the uh dune uh tube snake that's in the back it's not it's it's just awkward yeah yeah yeah so speaking of wick and and john or john x-men and wick okay okay i i will say though just summary on 50th it's a great option for people it's going to sell it's going to bring money into stern and i i approve of their of their option and if you don't like it don't buy it buy the other one yeah all right wick x-men new codes out major overhauls um for the most part it looks obviously tim sexon's no longer there wasin's no longer on lead i've heard he's moved on to a different project yeah uh what do you think of the code shenanigans on these two games? You're not going to get a blockbuster pickup on this unless you get someone who's an established, well, like a gifted coder on there for rule sets, okay? And when I say that, I don't mean it to sound dismissive of Tim and Wason. What I do mean to say is that there are code packages packages that are very much beloved, especially by the tournament community. And we know that the code package on there was not tournament level. And if you're going to give new life into an older game, then you need to cater to the tournament community who hasn't already moved on to everything else. And so we saw this with Walking Dead. Walking Dead was a, it was almost dead. It was terrible. Lyman came in and totally resurrected that game. And especially for tournament players, that is a much beloved tournament game. And there are people who are like, Hey, I, I want to get a Walking Dead. I want to get a premium Walking Dead because I like the Walker bombs. So if you have something like that, and I don't know who would do it. Raymond could totally do it. Raymond could totally do it because he is a tournament level player and he can come and say, this would work for tournaments. And he's had solid efforts on the games that he has touched. And he's worked super well with the Metallica remastered. He's done great on bringing the Led Zeppelin code actually to kind of where it is. And I know that was a team effort. I totally get it. But you can see Raymond's magic in the tournament pushing elite level of the code. And so you can see the magic there. If they have something like that, then you can breathe new life into these games. Right now, they are being hamstrung. Because elite players who know about these games, they are not going to spend the time to keep playing these games if the code is not deep enough to warrant their time. I think the one thing that people complained about with Wick was the blocking progress enemies, right? That AI thing, it just, it was annoying. I don't think you should ever make a game woodchoppy by making them shoot the same shot like four times in a row because there's enemies stacked up there or whatever. Right. I get the concept. Awesome concept. Great to the thing. Terrible for gameplay, right? Mm-hmm. So by getting rid of that, I think that really helps the situation. And honestly, so Wick, I feel like Wick is an underrated game. I'm not a fan of the premium just because that box is kind of like right there. Like it's not bad, but it's not my favorite. It's fine. It doesn't add a lot to it. and it it kind of blocks a little bit of gameplay but it's not too terrible right i think if you're a fan of borg if you like that quick some tight shots some geometry that's a little off than the usual but still feels good once you hit it i think wicks for you especially the price point it's at um i just the the the heartburn i'm getting is with the x-men code yeah i feel like x-men is already don't get me wrong i think jack danger did a great job with the layout i just think it was half-baked when it came out right and there's some stuff okay but it was in fairness it was also pushed up it was but i feel like so when you and i went this time by this time they should have caught up correct but expo last year it had been out for a month yeah And the four that they had in their game room that I played, every last one played different. They all, geometry-wise, were not on par. And I feel like Jack tried to do something unique, so unique, but it had to be so specific that there wasn't much of a, like, you have to have a little bit of tolerance on the machining and stuff like that because these games just go together not perfect every time, right? I've played Star Trek's like Richie Star Trek's that play different than from each other because they just you're not going to hit every spot perfect every time right and and serves trying to achieve that but with X-Men I feel like that that tolerance is that window is way bigger and and I just I know too many people that just gave up on X-Men because the code wasn't great you're forced to play the future and now you're forced to play it every stinking time you finish a mode yeah so that's really annoying and it just this game for something that everyone was so excited for when it first came out yeah it felt like it feels like it's really falling flat right and i don't know what direction they're going now with the code they could still revive this game i still think you have some geometry issues that need to be fixed and i don't know if they have fixed them in the factory i just i haven't played a new one off the line that it just is what it is um but yeah it's just it's really cool that they're going but like they could easily just wash their hands of this and be like you know what we're we're doing the codes where it's uh the game people have already bought the games have bought their games and we're not making anymore of these but they're trying to make the code right for their customer i think that says something to them right yeah stern definitely has the stern definitely has the the track record to say, hey, we're not going to completely abandon games even if they don't sell as well as other games. So they do have that commitment to making sure the game, the customers are whole, which gives you confidence that if you buy a game, eventually you will get some version of a complete code package. But I am going to address exactly what you said. Having a unique layout, which X-Men is, will really help if you can have tolerances between games. So if you have 10 games and you don't have to dial them in so tightly, like, you know, by someone who knows what they're doing, you need to have a game that even if someone who doesn't know what they're doing, puts the legs on, puts it up, legs all the way down to the ground, it should still play. and i it doesn't feel like that's happening on this game people are getting frustrated because even even experienced players are having a hard time dialing it in to play nicely well even like the sentinel hands right like yeah that was frustrating to me playing in a single ball mode yeah the sentinel hands have pretty much been disabled except for multi balls right yeah because stuff like that you don't want to be you want to have danger but you don't want get punished you know it's it's like the it's like a scoop that goes down the middle yeah you know and and that just feels like you you know you you got you got nut punched it's just not it's not cool like it's it's like i i got punished for doing something that i should be doing and hitting a ramp with the sentinel hands that breaks it on the ramp yeah it should have some danger but if it routinely goes down the middle you're gonna feel like you're robbed especially if you're playing on location at home you can roll your eyes and you can start again if you're paying two dollars for a game that's going to be different well even if you code in like a ball save for a split second i mean i mean godzilla does it with the with the manila wop i mean uh there's there's a couple of games where it's like i know this is coming out like and it could go down the middle so they just code in a what one second one and a half second ball save so so it knows oh yeah yep i definitely did what we thought we didn't want to do so here's a ball back you know i i'm i'm hoping they can fit because i do like that x-men does provide a different feel of a play field and it it's it is wild um but it on something like that you need to take extra care that it works for all of you all versions of your games depending on a novice to an experienced player setting it up and i really like this layout like it's very unique like jack did an awesome job to redefine what pinball is right now i think this is what a lot of people are clamoring clamoring for i just we'll see what happens right yeah speaking of other stuff that cern's trying to do you got cheap toppers now or relatively i guess in the pinball term cheap okay was it 400 bucks for a topper now well flat piece of plastic with some leds it's it's an led that plugs into your game and right now the only stand-up topper that you have is star wars right okay yeah now it seems like this is designed so you can swap out that piece so so having if you buy the the the base model of it that has like the led stuff and then you are able to hey i have maybe hey for example an iron maiden that they don't sell the topper for anymore and they're gonna sell like a flat plastic piece that has the egypt topper on it maybe that's something I would buy to throw up there. Or maybe, hey, a Beatles, and you have the Beatles, and you don't have the topper that was made very limitedly, and you're like, I still want a picture of John, Paul, and Ringo, and George up there, then they can have that option. As opposed to doing a committed run of the toppers, it's so much cheaper to manufacture the illuminated base that goes on top of the game and have a swappable flat plastic piece that makes so much more sense for all of the games out there and it it is totally easy that you can say hey we're buying like if i'm selling a game i can keep that topper and i can just buy a hundred dollar swapper out there that that's where i see this going yeah i don't know it is what it is like okay but to me But it's there. I mean, it is a discount option, which people, if the discount option are available, then people will buy it. Because right now people are buying third-party toppers, right? Yeah, true. It's trying to corner a piece of the market that's obviously available. It's an uncaptured market, yeah. It is. And it's just funny. Like, I don't know, a $400 topper for a flat piece of plastic. Okay, but is it a $300 mounting piece, $100 topper? What if I told you that? Okay. A reusable mount. Okay. All right. I don't know. Yeah, I guess that's more reasonable. Does that sound better? I think it does. That's more reasonable. Yeah. I don't know. It is what it is. Okay, but I actually think it's a good thing. I do. I think it's a good thing. Let me put it this way. I don't own toppers. I just, I don't. I'd rather put something into my game that affects the gameplay. Okay. Or, I don't know. I just, toppers aren't just my cup. People are buying mods. People are buying mods for $500. And it's something that was purchased on the toy aisle, and they crammed in an LED and an alligator clip. True. I guess this is a great solution to those that want a topper without spending two grand on a holographic Mandalorian topper. So, I think if you're looking for toppers, but you don't want to pay the price of an EM pinball machine put on top of your modern, this is a great this is a great compromise i think it's a great compromise now that the challenge is you're not going to get the topper exclusive modes yeah but i don't think anybody really i i don't have anybody buying a pinball machine based on a topper exclusive mode it's kind of like a fun gimmick but i don't really care that much all right let's talk about the elephant in the room the one that like supposedly we've we've had a ton ton of coverage on uh we did an interview with eric manier which which is fantastic yeah it's great and then like a week or two later it broke that like ai was used okay not that i was used yeah yeah someone had claimed that they did a whole deep dive synopsis on how there were ai artifacts in the playfield artwork and the wizard edition arcade slash wizard edition that were not fixed um and it's like blatant ai uh derp the dragon i don't know who coined it but obviously this is now the dragon's now been officially named derp i've heard this like multiple times across multiple platforms it's derpy dragon it is what it is because it's got two eyes on one side of the head uh just i i don't know this whole thing is kind of shenanigan this to me what's interesting is I've talked to multiple dealers, hasn't done a thing to their sales. They're like, yeah, this came out. No one gave a crap. They're still buying Harry Potter. I don't usually put on my tinfoil hat, but I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat for this one. All right. Conspiracy time. I don't like to go in conspiracies because I think it's really weird, especially with pinball, but I'm going to put on my conspiracy hat. Jesper, he's the artist. He's done multiple art packages. I think outside of Avatar, he's worked on every art package to help in some way or another you know you have multiple artists over these games so that way you can one artist can't do a full package by themselves it just is what it is um but yes per went off in like march about like ai and he's sick of corporate shoving them down their throats and like the commodification of art instead of it being a an art form it's now something that you buy and it's being you know simplified and yada yada right and i'm not saying that he did this on purpose but there's a lot of stuff in it it's like either a he was like yeah i'll give you ai here it is like shove right down your throat you're right or b like generally like there's a lot that's going on in graphic art design i've talked to a couple experts on this and they say there's a lot of times where when you're building a product when you're when you're sending this all through um sometimes the wrong file gets submitted and it just is what it is but my other part of my tinfoil hat right so either either yes or like actively knew what he's doing he was trying to stick it to the man or be he like he did like put out an apology uh message saying like it was like a sorry ish kind of message right like i'm sorry this happened but i did use ai tools but it was just a little bit and it was to help with some of the creativity it wasn't much of a message in my opinion okay my other my other thing the gentleman that brought this all to light i did not pull my i could pull him up on tilt form so one that started all this one that gave all this information right like this is ai tools this is i'm like this man knows a lot a lot about this picked up a lot of stuff i wouldn't know yeah so if you listen to nudge cast colin's done a great job in covering a lot of all this so he approached the gentleman that did this article the one that said hey dirt the dragon ron weasley's face all this stuff right the long hand on voldemort uh and he asked the guy like what is your background and he said oh i work in the pinball industry enough that i can't tell that i have an nda game in my garage i can't tell you what i have isn't that a little weird isn't that like a like did they know this was going to come out were they actively looking into artwork when it came out so that they could and this is kind of like i don't know when if you've watched the spooky yeah uh documentary they claim that america's most haunted wasn't supposed to be america's most haunted it was supposed to be a zombie game but they claim when stern found out that they were doing a zombie game stern ran out and got walking dead yeah to make a zombie game to compete i know that's all conspiracy stuff and if you want to watch that it's things like the night okay but monster bash came at the Monster Bash Remake came right out at the same time Stern was doing Munchkers. I know. We can do conspiracies, right? Yeah, and Godzilla, that's pretty a famous license where we know Spooky wanted it and Stern got it. So there's gamesmanship. Yes, there's definitely some industrial espionage, so to speak. We know. We know for a fact that the market has dipped, right? If you're looking for games, start looking on the used market. Hit up Zach and Nicole and they got great used games on their Facebook They update it daily Or you go to Pinside There easily plenty of games on Pinside for great prices Do you think this Obviously, we've known Harry Potter's coming for a while now. Do you think someone actively tried to sabotage the artwork? I mean, we're definitely going way conspiracy. This is the gospel according to Loser Kid. This is not like... Well, this is the apocrypha according to Loser Kid. um maybe but do i think it's a do i think it's going to affect sales no i don't um the it does seem like someone who at least knows enough about it to say hey this is what's going on and if in people so it doesn't affect sales but it does affect reputation because when we buy a lunchbox or buy a t-shirt at Walmart, we're going to expect, you know, we paid 20 bucks for it. If it's not super elite, then we're not going to care. We're just like, okay, fine. It's a $20 lunchbox, big deal. If we pay $10,000 for a game, we are expecting some level of attention to detail that that should be there and if you are claiming that you have this this elevated attention to detail which which jjp does talk about they talk about they talked about an avatar how oh it's so important that this is how you know the lore and we incorporated it in. And even I looked at it and said, you said they're all left-handed. Why in your promotional photo is she shooting right-handed? Yeah. And, and so just, just little things like that where you're thinking, if you're claiming that, Hey, you're getting a detailed tailored product from us. And then people see things that don't seem to line up. So if you're saying we are doing an exclusive, art package with you know with hand-drawn art this isn't clip art this isn't the star wars package this isn't uh game of thrones original package where they just took like stock art and kind of collaged it together this is a a custom design you're going to expect that they did a full custom design now whether or not people use tools like ai that's fine um but it doesn't meet the expectation of what people thought they were getting so it does take it does take you down a notch and it's it's disappointing a little bit because there are artists where i look at their art package and i highly suspect there was a lot of computer engineering versus hand-drawn art Yeah. And and you guys can pick out which ones which ones on your own that like have that look that you're like, I suspect there was some assisted assisted help on this. Now, whether or not that's a big deal to you, it may or may not be. but when you're thinking the, the attention to detail where the folds and the buttons, you know, it, it probably makes a big deal. If you're saying, I only want to buy this game. If there's only 500 of them available, if there's 3000 of them available, I'm not interested. That's your level of detail. Yeah. And if, if JJP is trying to sell it that way, then they probably should live up to the expectations of the, of the consumer, whether or not that's fair. I don't know, but that's how they sell it. Didn't Jack tell us if you're buying a Ferrari? I don't think Ferrari uses AI in their designs. Maybe they do. Maybe they don't. And the other part, too, is Jack did come out after this whole AI thing started blowing up. And he's like, we don't use AI in our stuff. It's all hand-drawn. The problem is Jack kind of like, yeah. So Jesper did say, yes, I used AI tools for the artwork. Here's the thing. I don't care if you use AI tools. I really don't. Right. I know other artists that do use AI tools and some other stuff. It's to get ahead of the curve, right? It helps with the rough draft. It's efficiency. You're trying to be efficient, yes. Especially when you don't – 18 months might sound like a lot of time, but they don't start at the 18-month mark. They're lucky if they come in at the 12-month or the 6-month. And they're not getting $30,000 for these art packages. Correct. So here's my thing. And I echo this, like if you haven't listened to Eclectic Gamers or Pinball Show or Nudgecast, I feel like we've all said the same thing. I just want to echo what they've said. I don't care if you use AI tools. Just clean it up and make it look good. Make it look like it looks like AI. It looks sloppy. And that's the thing is if you're going to if you're going to use Wikipedia as a reference, don't cut and paste. Yeah, exactly. I don't care that I don't care even if you take the artwork you pulled off the internet and you trace it by hand on your digital program yeah you know I'm saying like okay I know that there's a criteria there is a book that comes from these licensors and it comes in and it says the exact colors the exact positions so there's only so much you can do anyways right you know I'm saying like there's a lot of you have to meet a criteria you mean like gene wilder having the exact same pose seven times on willy wonka yeah so so why not use ai to pull that right from the internet already and say hey i need willy wonka in seven different poses that exact it well it but they told him that you had to use that exact pose so okay surrounded by the kids of willy wonka make it look wrong yeah Yeah, I don't know. And then go up a bit and be like, okay, yeah, obviously this got stretched. You know what I'm saying? But it gives you a good base of where to start. And even we know that there was a slight delay before even launch because there was a character on the side. Let's just say, I don't think that was the issue. I think there were some things with possibly the physical things in there. But either way, they look at these things. No, they did. They told us. And even Richard Ralph talked about this on his episode. They did. What was the name of the kid that's one of the henchmen to – Gronk or Crump or something like that. Yeah, Gronkle. But obviously he had some personal issues during the recording of the movies. He even changed. And he was replaced. He changed entirely. He was entirely – he even went from white to not white anymore. He was a lot more tan in the – Yeah. And so they had him as the original character on the side art and they took him out. But they caught that like three weeks before. This is a character you guys have known for years, like halfway through the series you shouldn't be using. And why did that get passed off up until almost a month before release? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It is what it is. So I don't think it's that big of a deal if they fix it. And those that got the games, if you want to keep it or not. Well, OK, I would just say, again, it's a hit to your reputation. It's not going to take the overall game. You know, it's it. But if you're going to present it as an exclusive art package, you should probably make sure it's a detailed, exclusive art package. Well, the Mia and Lima stuff is it's spot on. There's no AI with that. And that's amazing. Yeah. You want my problem is with Harry Potter. Here's my problem. It's not the art. Art is whatever. like i do buy a game because honestly i think king kong's art is amazing it's not what sold me on it but i keep finding little tidbits throughout the whole thing just loving it i love that we took old school artists with new school artists we took three of them we mushed them together it just it looks beautiful there's callbacks to other games like elvira and stuff in it wonderful okay that is not what bothers me is not the art it's the code i've had this problem with every jjp except for maybe Elton John. Sure. The problem with code, like every time I come to your house, I play Wizard of Oz. I love the beauty of these games. I have no clue what's going on. The problem is it's telling you four to five different things all at the same time, telling you what you should be doing, but you don't know exactly what path you're supposed to be taking. Like even they tried to remade this in Pirates of the Caribbean with the compass. It was supposed to tell you which shot you should shoot now based off of like what's best going on in your game. It just... there is way too much going on in these games. There needs to be one main focus and then everything else is enhancement. Right. Yeah. That's, and that's what I'm hearing from everyone. I love Harry Potter. The layout is amazing. The artwork looks really good to what I see. It's, I don't know what I'm doing. I've played 20, 30, 40 games. I'm starting to kind of piece this together, but it's still as clear as mud. That's where I have a problem with Harry Potter. That's all JJP, right? A lot of JJPs. Elton John's probably the most linear code. And I love the Keith P. Johnson complexity. It also can be overwhelming. And so I wish there were a way to streamline something. And I don't know if it's a flip a button and have it be more streamlined code and a deep button. I'm not sure because that seems to be his wheelhouse is this super complex code. but in something like Lord of the Rings, it's complex and deep, but it still feels linear enough that people understand what to do. So I don't know if that's like the limitation on the, on the D and D that Lord of the Rings has or Simpsons. And it has to focus you a little bit. And their screens are huge. They're 20, they're like 27 inch screens. And it's, it has so much information that it is a little hard to, to distill exactly what you're trying to do in a game. Yeah, it's true. I don't know, man, they've got to figure it out. It's just, yeah. But I, I applaud it. They, in avatar, they have like a flow sheet, but it's hard to play pinball when you have a flow sheet and, and wizard of Oz has a flow sheet too, that it has like pause button on my pinball machine. Let me pause that while I look at the flow sheet and it plays a lot more like a, like one of those three hour board games rule sets where you have like all that all those cards in front of you and you're just like what's the rule on this i don't understand i don't i'm excited for harry potter my whole family loves harry potter yep i think this could be a game that could come into my collection i just need to see how this all pans out yeah and my friend's getting one he's getting a ce so i want to take a look at it and so it'll be a lot of fun to see that speaking of getting CEs did you see that poor man he is a huge Harry Potter fan he dressed up as Dumbledore for like one of the expos or for Southern Fried Gaming poor man gets FedEx shows up it's the best day of his life and then like he sees the broken glass coming out the bottom of the pinball box and he's like yep I'm sending this one back yeah it's oh it's so heartbreaking because you know it's like ah that's because that that puts you down a spiraling staircase of yep or one of those moving staircases harry potter style yeah oh well here's the worst part that happens it has to get shipped back to the manufacturer they need to fix it they got to go through the stuff then they'll ship it back to insurance yeah that whole shenanigans right unless if you know you're going through zach at flipping out and he's He actually ships you, if he has the game in stock, still in new boxes, he'll ship you that game. He'll ship you another one, yeah. Yeah, and then he'll deal with all the headache of the game going back. I feel bad for the guy because your dream theme and you just, it's like opening, it's like actually sitting down to a great restaurant and then pulling it off and you realize that the meat's rotten. Yeah. Like sitting there for an hour for the great service, right? Yeah. You've waited so long. You brought rotten meat. Yeah. Oh, the kitchen's got to take that back. It's going to be another hour. Yeah, exactly. Oh, so terrible. Oh, heart goes out to you, dude. All right, let's talk about – sadly, you couldn't make it when we did the Predator interview. You know what? This is the downside of working in a hospital. Sometimes your schedule is not your own. And Josh also – sometimes his schedule is not his own. But I couldn't make it to the Predator launch thing. They had a very tight window. They were recording with us the day before. And we are grateful that they reached out to us and we got the American podcast release on it. So that was great. And we appreciate everybody who listened and reached out, talked about it. However, with the release, there's always some challenges. So Josh, what was the main challenge with the Alien edition the original Alien edition There was no Ripley Yeah, there was the main character The star of the show All Alien's about, like the whole crew gets killed off what, in the first like 30 minutes? Yeah, Ripley and the Alien Yeah, well and Aliens I mean it's the same, the whole thing is her trying to save Newt We're not even going to talk about Alien 3 because they did them dirty in Alien Alien 3. Okay, so with Predator, if you're going to do... We asked, is this Predator? There's like eight Predator movies. There's like an Alien vs. Predator. I like that one. Is it like an alien character? Sorry, a Predator character? And they're like, no, it's the first film. Okay, well, there are certain things that if you're going to do this, that you want the first film is there some special person that you really want involved in this project well obviously arnold schwarzenegger and so it's like the last was the last 45 minutes essentially just him in the program going at it yeah and so and and it's it's a great 80s movie it is so good and i still want to know how mud on him actually prevents heat from transferring um it doesn't really work in in physics but it's still a fun story he's an elite he's an elite military man he does what he's doing he's elite me he found some uh some uh whatever some some heat uh heat resistant mud um but either way so they don't really have arnold ish in there they have they have like pictures of his like muscles or him running or his chest don't you want his chest and his belly button man well oh sure close up of those those biceps those muscles okay he's shooting that chain gun it's impressive they're slightly bigger than mine but uh actually okay do you know a funny story though so him and jesse ventura did you did you hear the story one time um where he left like a measuring tape that was measuring his his biceps because i arnold back in his prime he his arms were huge right oh yeah ridiculous yes and so jesse they they told him yeah that's arnold's size and jesse measured his biceps and his were like an inch bigger around the arm did you hear this no i didn't and so he was like hey arnold so so you know he was feeling feel good about himself and so he's like hey arnold mr olympia how about we measure our biceps Arnold had totally punked him and Arnold's biceps were like three inches bigger than Jesse's oh my goodness it's terrible okay come on that's a good old fashioned measuring it was a bicep measuring contest yeah that's what they should call it the bicep measuring contest and Arnold's was three inches bigger but yes the okay I appreciate that they're passionate about this and I know that there's challenges with the license on this and so this could be completely out of their control now do you still go forward with the game if you don't have all the assets to make it the game the dream game or do you say there's enough that we can do it to make it right now for me I I would have wanted Arnold in there I'm hoping they'll sell enough of these so that it actually makes it worthwhile for them and maybe they just need a limited run to recapture it but i i don't know it seems like an odd choice i guess i'll put it that way it seems like an odd choice well during the interview they said that like they do have access to arnold and they are still trying to work on like the close-up so he said that they're not allowed to have a close-up of arnold sure um i don't know and i i think it's interesting like they used a voice actor uh for arnold i know i feel like everyone in the world can do an arnold impression but arnold can't say like california like yeah i don't know i just it's it's one of those things where it's like there's i don't know i just okay arnold has done call outs before though yeah and so okay arnold he not an in star right now right yeah it not like he making a lot of movies he kind of in the Richard Richard Dreyfuss Jaws category And so yes he totally iconic Like is it possible to reach out to Arnold to actually do the call outs And who knows? We are totally speculating because we don't know. Maybe they did. And Arnold's like, no, I'm not into it. But don't. I've already got three pinball machines. Why do I need a fourth? Exactly. Exactly. That was a terrible accent. I apologize. you know i hey it's better than mine i i haven't even tried an arnold so the chopper the chopper i i just it is i don't know here's honestly the arnold thing doesn't bug me here's the weird thing like i watched the gameplay video and maybe maybe this is different they only showed two whopping minutes of the game right and they're editing and matching and stuff like that the video that they show of every character is literally the end credits video that's only like a minute long minute and a half long where all the characters are doing like the wink at the camera they're doing their little favorite thing right like yeah and then once they're in a magazine and stuff like that and it's like you collect the character and you get it's like you literally you have this whole movie and i don't know what you had access to obviously you don't have access to arnold's face okay whatever you have all this footage and the literal footage you put into the game is like you is is the end credit scene and like 90 of the video i'm seeing is like someone like computer generated just walking through jungle like you're not seeing anything it's all point of view it's like the camera's just walking through the jungle and it's like you collect a character and he's like i'm here all right okay do you know what they really should have done they should have dressed up sylvester stallone as arnold in this that would have been hilarious that would have been so great did i get predator did i get they get rambo okay okay you know back in the day they actually arnold and and sylvester had like a kind of a rivalry going like there's a reason why uh when uh when um sorry sylvester stallone when he did rambo like Arnold Schwarzenegger did Commando it was like a total back and forth when there's like and so it was interesting to see who was like the bigger star, the action star back then and Contra the NES game it's totally like a fake Arnold and a fake Sylvester Stallone in there so that would have been funny But yeah, I don't know. I'm hoping – I'm really hoping that they get the ability to at least incorporate him into the game a little better because it would make a lot more sense. Yeah, I just – so is this a game that you're going to pick up? No. I'm not either now. It's not – I have a great collection. This is my problem. I have a great collection. and if I need to sell a game I have to buy a game and sell a game throw it over your shoulder and drag it out of that basement actually Kate I don't know if I told you this did I tell you that my neighbor he excavated under his garage did I tell you this part no so he excavated under his garage and it's given me crazy ideas because behind me this wall here is the outside wall. Yeah, it goes to your garage. Your garage is on the other side of that wall, isn't it? Well, okay, but there's nothing there because it's dirt. So they didn't go under the garage. You know how I have a double-deep garage there? Yeah. I'm starting to save up, and so I can shave off that garage, dig down, and that's going to be the entrance to the new Loser Kid room. Nice. And it'll be like a 40 by 30 room back there. I can just imagine you like in there. You're going to tell like the construction guys, can I go through that wall like Kool-Aid man? You're just going to. Yeah. No. So that's that's my my couple of year plan is to save up money so we can go through this wall and have like a proper arcade. Honey, I just remodeled the upstairs for you. And it's just the way you want. It's beautiful. It's great. Yeah, that's great. Great. Now I'm ready for my arcade room. Yeah. I just need a garage and an arcade underneath it. So you know how we have all those pinball machines sitting in the garage. Exactly. Exactly. I have no place to put. Yeah. Yeah. You know, text me for more marriage tips here. So exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's the new loser kid segment. We're going to start doing on the, the bi-weekly. It's not just marriage therapy, couples therapy. Yeah. Shower thoughts and marriage therapy with Scott. Yes. Oh my goodness. All right. So we're out on predator. I don't mind playing this game. I'm going to play expo. I think I'm excited to play it. expo like it's okay i i would be interested to see it it's not uh in this version of it it's not for me however i hope they sell enough you know there were enough people that were really in on alien so they sold enough on there when when they talked to me on the interview i said it gave me like richie getaway vibes and like l1 stuff like jurassic park because of the jungle and like the tower and stuff like that more and more i looked at this game honestly this game looks like wide-body version of Whirlwind. Okay. If you look at it, I really... So, depending on how they did the geometry, I mean, Whirlwind's already a fun game. It may work. It may be interesting. You want to play before you buy, right? Exactly. I'm definitely interested in playing this game. That is the motto right now. Yeah. Play before you buy. Unless if it's Elwynn. But even then, you probably should play before you buy. I love King Kong. Seriously, we could do another hour just me talking about this game i wonder though we we talked about we will talk about this in the chat though today there's still some le's available right so there are is this a signal is this a signal like the at the market's declining or is this more of a like king kong with such a random theme as is okay that's elwynn it's all it is elwynn but i only goes so far though too like owen in my opinion is the cream of the cream the cream of the crop right he's the macho man it's not metallica i'll put it that way metallica you're going to get like like metallica has sold hundreds of millions of albums it is a huge thing so even people who know nothing about pinball are going to be interested in a metallica le okay yeah yeah um Um, but with these, I'm also to the point where it probably has reached that saturation point where if you really are invested into the theme, you can get an LE and say, yes, I want all the bling. I did that on Metallica. Like the theme was great. I knew the game was great. And so I am just like, okay, I'm going to pay for the package, uh, the art package and the complete stuff that I wanted. but with even with king kong i looked at and i said you know actually i like all three art packages and it's it's okay like i and really i made that choice on godzilla too i saw the le art package and i like the the premium package so i i got i bought it on that um it doesn't have the same draw because historically there was that moment where if you bought an le you could flip it for a thousand dollars more so you got the the you know you got the uh you know the scavengers in there who were just not collectors who were just in it to flip it but when they could no longer do it they evaporated and so you kind of got back to your like your core your core group and with you know attack from mars those were available for like a month like they didn't sell out immediately and so there's a lot of those games where i'm like i don't think it's a big deal if you don't sell them all out it's fine yeah i agree uh i think i think what hinders this and as much as it pains me to say this i really do think doing kind of the non-king kong thing but the problem is too is like i look at king kong and there's nothing iconic enough to be like like i like skull island but then like what do you do with skull island do you do samuel jackson and tom hillston all of a sudden you're starting in these actors that are kind of it'd be great to have in a game but i'm glad they went with king kong i'm glad they went with a nondescript i'm glad they and i will tell you this timeless i love i love congo i love playing congo hippos this gives me hippos the music's reminiscent of it there's hilarious okay if you own a king kong is it just me is it just me when you go into octopus multiball is there at some point in time where they quote stepbrothers and he said keep your tentacles off my stuff and he says it just like he does in the movie and i'm like did i just hear that am i thinking i wouldn't be surprised hilarious absolutely hilarious i just yeah all right quick shout out thank you pin quest thank you for letting us be your guest takeover for the month of june nap arcades up this month You better go hit up his league stuff. Those that won free swag, congratulations. You fought hard. It's awesome. Did you end up winning yourself, Scott? I got myself. I don't own. I can't remember what game we did for you. Was it Medieval Madness? Yeah, we did Medieval Madness. Okay, the problem I have is that I went on a two-week trip, like right during the middle of it, and so I was out of the country. So I didn't even play. And when I come back, this is the problem of being in my field. you get slammed for like 10 days coming back and so i didn't even i don't even think i played medieval madness because i've been so busy and i'm also getting knee surgery tomorrow so i i've been trying to to gather some stuff together for that gotcha so yeah i didn't get a chance that's what i hear i'm sorry i didn't get a chance to collect myself i got my own face but i own a godzilla too so yeah well you could you could come over and you could collect mine i guess Well, we can't do that anymore. I appreciate everybody who gets to look at my ugly mug on your PinQuest. But thank you. Thank you for everyone that went and did that, that did the league. Support PinQuest. They're doing amazing stuff. They're doing awesome things. It's free to you as a consumer. If you own these games in your house, you're already having fun with them, right? And it's actually a pretty good thing for an operator too. so just keep that in mind because it does have that have ways of them contacting you so i yeah totally awesome scott anything else before we do the old uh the old wrap up you know i i really am excited for jaws 50 i really want to see it in person i want to play it um and man i need to figure out ways of of increasing my basement so i can get 20 more games down here exactly we're and turn that into a museum down there. Yeah. To your own personal arcade. If you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com, at Loser Kid Pinball and all the socials on YouTube. Hit subscribe, like, yada, yada, yada. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, X. Twitter is X. If you caught that, all right. You want swag. This is not available. The shirt I'm wearing is not available on Super Bowl Swag. This is the Flippin' the Script on Autism shirt. and uh i mean people keep asking we're ever going to do that again i don't know it was a lot of work it was a lot of work but you know i i appreciated it and i supported this was your project i was there to support you and and it was great um maybe maybe in the future i i thought it was really good and we were able to raise that money for those for those families because that's the biggest bridge to get people into treatment and you're yeah okay tell us about your kid your son who actually is is in the treatment tell tell us about him grayson's doing amazing man he uh he so when you're autistic they they categorize you one two things when it comes to school you're either neurotypical or non-neurotypical so neurotypical means that you would think what the way the average person thinks right not necessarily a bad thing it's just like like two plus two people equal four some people might go well one plus one plus one plus one and like they break down the twos into ones that's equals four right it's a way that you approach a problem so non-neurotypical uh approaches things differently right than what we would standard grayson's been doing so well uh it makes us cry that we're having full speech like full conversations with him because like this is a kid that was non-verbal that we just we didn't know what to do with him because he just couldn't communicate with us and full speech is now top of his class for math like he's double the score he's supposed to be he's just doing fantastic and he's he integrates with everyone else very very well to the point that uh like we've had him on soccer teams and stuff like that and he he might have an episode here or there autistic kids may have a breakdown because there's sensory overload and stuff like that we had that once with the soccer team this summer uh i scooped him up we took him off the fill we told the coach hey i think we're done for today uh i told the coach later like sorry he's autistic and he said he's autistic i i when i had a clue like he's he's doing what the other kids are doing he's doing great and so uh yeah he's learning solutions has done a ton of amazing things for my child and so i just if you have any inclinations my suggestion is reach out to your local uh community and see if if they can help your child if if you have any inclinations that they may be autistic the earlier you can get them help the better they will succeed in life and so uh yeah i just i want to thank everyone that made flipping the script on on autism uh i i know i've said it multiple times it's been four years since we've been three years since we've done it uh i just it's amazing the life changes that you guys did for the positive guys and gals out there and i it's something that's just like i can't believe we did it you know i'm saying like it's just it's almost like did that really happen we had almost thirty thousand dollars raised in less than 12 hours we had people like slash from guns of roses and michael bay donate stuff to help the cause we had Marc Silk flying from london to be on our interview with us. And it just, and all the people, Keith Owen, Roger Sharp, you know, Eric Meunier, just so many great people in this community that are just faces of, like the face of great pinball right now. It wasn't like there was Stern and Jersey Jack and American and all that. We were all there for one reason and we all sat down and it wasn't a fight. It wasn't, it just, it was coming together to help what we could and it was amazing so no it was great so i again a amazing thing and i i love hearing about your son that he he was he's able to live a more normal life than he ever would have he needs routine but i think all of us need a routine i think um but yeah other than that it's crazy to see he's able to take direction from teachers and stuff like that like we never thought he'd take swim lessons he's in swim lessons for the first time this year and he's loving it and he's understanding how how to do it and uh it just it's not something we would have thought he would have ever done before and just yeah so okay um join us at expo uh i well scott will not be there yeah i yeah my yeah my son uh my son's class is actually going to be heading out to DC. So I think we're going to be taking them to DC for a quick, um, patriotic, uh, tour. Um, I, I'm very grateful to live in this country. Um, it's an amazing country. And even with all the warts that we have, I'd still rather live here than anyone or anywhere else. And so I used to live in DC. It'd be fun to take my kids back to DC and show them some, uh, you know, some of our patriotic history. So definitely, so join me at least. I just got my flight tickets today. I've had my hotel for like a year now or whatever it was as soon as they opened up. We do, Rob Burke has asked us to do a panel. Oh, that'd be cool. Yeah, so it sounds like it's been me, Retro Ralph, Jared, and Joel Engelberth. Maybe Zach, maybe many. Maybe you should just message him. Just do it, Zach. Just do it. Yeah. but we're doing that so join us at Expo like I said speaking of Zach again if you're looking for a fun house doesn't matter if it's the classic edition or the LE $500 off either through flipping out pinball here in the US that's discount code loser kid if you're over in Europe and you're listening to us you can also get that discount by going directly through Progereddy and doing discount code loser kid and their stuff as well so I'm excited fun house should be here on Monday I'm excited other than that Patreon hit us up we appreciate those that support us on Patreon I know that they've been happy with some of the cool stuff we've been able to do behind the scenes with them and then yeah I think that's it right yeah I think so I've done the spill for like 10 minutes now so alright give us our last words Scott alright happy 4th of July and as you know Amity means friendship Thank you.

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: ee4cf83b-2171-4db3-9b86-04e3c851250f*