# Dirty Pool Podcast Ep04 –  Ian Jacoby of Nudge Magazine

**Source:** Dirtypool Pinball  
**Type:** video  
**Published:** 2025-05-21  
**Duration:** 86m 10s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ew2CY6Imwc

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## Analysis

Ian Jacobi, founder of Nudge Magazine, discusses the creation and evolution of his print pinball lifestyle magazine, its shift from solo operations to distributed logistics via Mixum, and his philosophy on collaborative creative work. He shares perspectives on AI in art, arguing that AI fundamentally misunderstands art as process rather than commodity, while acknowledging practical constraints for emerging creators.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Nudge Magazine Issue 5 will be published in June or July 2025 — _Ian states 'issue five hopefully will be done by in June and I think it will be published in June or July.'_
- [HIGH] Nudge Magazine operates at approximately break-even financially despite $20+ per issue pricing — _Ian: 'even though our magazines are expensive, I think they're $20 plus shipping. Um we don't make a lot of money uh on this endeavor. It's really kind of a break even situation right now for me.'_
- [HIGH] Mixum now handles international shipping for Nudge Magazine back issues and future issues after the first 300 of Issue 5 — _Ian: 'everything else, if you go on nudgepinball.com and you put in an order, uh, Mixum can ship it and I'm fairly certain they can do it anywhere in the world.'_
- [HIGH] Ian Jacobi was in an indie rock band called Larks on Absolutely Kosher Records label — _Ian: 'I was in a um indie rock band called Larks for many years and we toured and we were on um a label called Absolutely Kosher which they used to have like Pinback on there.'_
- [HIGH] Ian has a master's degree in fiction writing — _Ian: 'I have my masters in um like fiction writing and so I always thought I was going to be a professor.'_
- [HIGH] Nudge Magazine started during COVID boredom in 2020 as a way to stay connected to pinball — _Ian: 'when I kind of got the idea for Nudge, which was really just born out of like COVID boredom, like I couldn't go out on location to play pinball and I wanted to stay connected to that world.'_
- [HIGH] Issue 4 features approximately four or five illustrators compared to two in the first issue — _Ian: 'we have like four or five illustrators in this one. I think we had two in the first one.'_
- [HIGH] Ian wrote nothing for Issue 5 except the opening letter, representing a significant shift in his editorial approach — _Ian: 'I've actually written nothing except for the like opening letter, I think. Um, so that's pretty different for for me.'_

### Notable Quotes

> "We have great friends, a nice network of people, a good product, and nobody knows how to buy it or get it."
> — **Ian Jacobi**, Early in conversation
> _Captures Nudge's challenge with distribution and market awareness despite quality product_

> "I think art is comes from people because the world is a weird place full of like ups and downs and things that we don't understand. And so it imprints itself on our brains and when it does that we have to barf something out."
> — **Ian Jacobi**, AI discussion section
> _Core philosophical statement on the nature of artistic creation vs AI-generated content_

> "We own nothing in a digital world. I own Nudge Magazine. You can't pry from my hands."
> — **Tracy (chat participant, quoted by Ian)**, Mid-conversation
> _Encapsulates the value proposition of physical media ownership in digital era_

> "For me art is the process. And so when you can say AI is part of this process, to me, I think it sort of short circuits the creative thinking parts of your brain um during art and the rewrites and the really hard just sitting there."
> — **Ian Jacobi**, AI discussion section
> _Key articulation of philosophical opposition to AI art—focuses on creative process rather than output_

> "Start small and good and people will find you."
> — **Matt (Ian's friend/music reviewer)**, Late in discussion
> _Advises against marketing hustle in favor of quality and vision—influenced Nudge's strategy_

> "I didn't think that there was a lot in pinball that was sort of speaking to my experience."
> — **Ian Jacobi**, Near end of transcript
> _Articulates the origin motivation for creating Nudge Magazine—gap in pinball media landscape_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Ian Jacobi | person | Founder and creative director of Nudge Magazine, former musician in indie rock band Larks, holds master's degree in fiction writing, now also appears as regular podcast guest |
| Nudge Magazine | product | Print pinball lifestyle magazine founded 2020, $20+ per issue, now in Issue 5 development (June/July 2025 launch), uses distributed shipping via Mixum for international delivery |
| Dirty Pool Podcast | organization | Podcast hosted by Jeff Dodson featuring industry interviews and discussions, Episode 4 features Ian Jacobi interview |
| Jeff Dodson | person | Host of Dirty Pool Podcast, musician/content creator with interest in pinball culture and custom audio production |
| Brian Mowen | person | Graphic designer, musician (drummer), long-time collaborator with Ian Jacobi; co-creator/designer of Nudge Magazine visual identity |
| Larks | product | Indie rock band featuring Ian Jacobi (vocals, keyboards, primary songwriter) and Brian Mowen (drums); active late 1990s-2000s on Absolutely Kosher Records label |
| Absolutely Kosher Records | organization | Record label that released Larks' work and others including Pinback; folded before Larks' second album release due to impact of music streaming/Napster era |
| Gina Kletia | person | Photographer and writer based in New York, major contributor to Nudge Magazine across multiple issues |
| Mixum | organization | Third-party logistics/fulfillment company now handling Nudge Magazine distribution and international shipping |
| DeadFlip | organization | Pinball media outlet founded by Jack Danger; cited by Ian as influential early pinball content that shaped his vision for Nudge |
| Jack Danger | person | Founder of DeadFlip pinball media outlet, cited as influential figure in pinball content creation |
| Buffalo Pinball | organization | Pinball content creator/community entity mentioned as part of early pinball media landscape that influenced Nudge's creation |
| Jeff May | person | Connected to Tilt crew, recommended Nudge Magazine to Jeff Dodson based on shared interest in vintage photography and pinball |
| Matt | person | Music reviewer for Nudge Magazine, provided creative direction advice to Ian about starting small and building audience organically |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Nudge Magazine's operational transition and logistics, Print media in digital age and physical publication ownership, AI in creative work and fundamental philosophy of art, Collaborative creative vision and editorial philosophy
- **Secondary:** Building niche community publications without chasing mainstream metrics, Ian Jacobi's music background and influence on Nudge's creative approach, Pinball media landscape and gaps in coverage/representation
- **Mentioned:** Authenticity and punk rock ethos in creative pursuits

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.78) — Ian expresses satisfaction with Nudge's growth, enthusiasm for collaborative work, and passion for physical media and artistic authenticity. Critical perspective on AI is principled rather than hostile. Jeff Dodson demonstrates genuine appreciation and interest. Some minor frustration with logistics challenges in early stages, but framed as learning experience. Overall tone is constructive and optimistic about creative vision.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Nudge Magazine outsourced fulfillment operations to Mixum after initial solo fulfillment operations created shipping errors and financial losses (confidence: high) — Ian: 'now we have an external company shipping our stuff' after describing costly mistakes (wrong addresses, duplicate shipments) when personally handling logistics from home
- **[community_signal]** Nudge Magazine niche-down strategy deliberately targets passionate pinball community members rather than chasing broad audience; quality community feedback valued over metrics (confidence: high) — Ian: 'I wanted to niche down more and I think like the people who find us are the ones who really get it' and 'we love pinball coming in with six people. That's amazing for us. Those are amazing numbers'
- **[design_philosophy]** Nudge Magazine operates on philosophy of encouraging emerging artists and writers regardless of experience level, prioritizing authentic voice and community contribution over editorial gatekeeping (confidence: high) — Ian: 'I like to really encourage people...someone will write something or give me something that I don't like or isn't right for the magazine...it's easy for me to tell people no because I'm a very honest person' with emphasis on 'authenticity which flows from me'
- **[market_signal]** Post-digital media authenticity movement: handmade, physical, and human-created content gaining cultural legitimacy as reaction against AI automation and algorithmic content (confidence: medium) — Discussion frames Nudge and similar projects as resistance to purely digital/algorithmic culture; Ian: 'we own nothing in a digital world. I own Nudge Magazine'
- **[market_signal]** Physical print magazine publications experiencing resurgence as counterweight to digital media proliferation; vinyl records and CDs also seeing renewed consumer interest (confidence: medium) — Jeff: 'I think that more than ever now people are actually latching back on to media that means something. Uh and you can see that in the return of vinyl and kids wanting to buy CDs'; Ian started Nudge in 2020 when trend was already emerging
- **[community_signal]** Ian Jacobi transitioned from solo creative control to fully collaborative editorial model—Issue 5 represents first issue where Ian contributed only opening letter versus writing majority of early issues (confidence: high) — Ian: 'I've actually written nothing except for the like opening letter, I think. Um, so that's pretty different for for me' and earlier 'even though I wrote a lot of the articles early on'
- **[product_strategy]** Nudge Magazine Issue 5 timeline shifted to June/July 2025, representing ongoing production challenges for physical publication (confidence: medium) — Ian states 'issue five hopefully will be done by in June' with language suggesting uncertainty; no specific previous target date mentioned but implies delays relative to desired publication schedule
- **[sentiment_shift]** Ian Jacobi publicly critical of AI art usage; has unfollowed channels using AI-generated content but acknowledges practical constraints for emerging creators (confidence: high) — Ian states 'I'm a bit anti-AI' and admits to unfollowing AI-using channels; Jeff Dodson confirms 'you were very vocal on Instagram about it'; both acknowledge legitimate use cases for AI in non-creative functions

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## Transcript

What's going on everybody? Welcome to episode Man, I can't believe I'm saying it. It's episode 4 and it's only been a few weeks uh of the Dirty Pool podcast. Uh, I'm Jeff and I am so stoked today to be joined by Ian Jacobe. Is it a Is it Jacobe? Is it a soft or a hard J? Yeah. Jacobe. Wait, what would the other one be? Jakob. Jacobe, I guess. Yeah. Yakobe. Yeah. No. Uh, yeah. Jacobe. You got it. All right. I'm here with Ean Yakobi, uh, owner and creator of Nudge Magazine. Uh I I'm so stoked for this episode personally just because uh you know the first my entrance back into pinball involved talking to some of the people that were on on Tilt's crew specifically Jeff May of Jeff May's podcast and he was like yo you would love this print magazine he since you love vintage photography and all this and he was like you should connect with Ian and check out Nudge and that night I went on and tried to buy all your magazines and none of them were in stock. Anyways I couldn't be happier. This is Ian. Hello Ian. That's That's sounds like us. That story all the way around sounds like us. We have great friends, a nice network of people, a good product, and nobody knows how to buy it or get it. So, somebody asked me yesterday about how to get it internationally, and if you did international shipping. So, well, let's start off. Can you get Nudge in Tasmania? Say, this is a great actually, thank you for asking this. Um because so I used to be the only person in charge of shipping for Nudge and that's hard because obviously okay so like let's take a step back right Nudge is a pinball lifestyle magazine. Uh a big part of my pinball lifestyle is like smoking pot, hanging out at arcades and like being kind of a do nothing. And so someone like that isn't necessarily they don't also have the characteristics that make for a good like shipping and logistics person. Um, hold on. Smoke smoking weed and and being chill doesn't match with managing logistic networks. You're blowing my mind. I think those people are are quite organized. They're quite um they're unflapable. I think really good ones. And so for me, when it was like uh you know, we would get we were really lucky. Um people wanted to buy Nudge right off the bat. So we would have like really big orders come in and then it was just me at first in my truly in my parents' basement and then just in a normal room like this but just me a normal Can we can you define a normal room like what is the framework for a room that is normal? Sure. Yeah. I would say like this looks like 15 by 15 or something but um you know good air flow. There's like a reasonable amount of light that reaches it every day. Um, but I'm just saying it's not like a it's not a shipping, you know, it's not a shipping and receiving area. Uh, so it was just me doing that and and thusly stuff went wrong. I'll say stuff went wrong and so it was hard to get people magazines timely. Uh, occasionally they would get extra magazines. There was That's a bonus. Yeah. Well, for those people, yeah, for me it was really hard when I'm like live or die. Like even though our magazines are expensive, I think they're $20 plus shipping. Um we don't make a lot of money uh on this endeavor. It's really kind of a break even situation right now for me. Um but like those kind of errors were just like quite costly and very I'm not someone who bounces back that easily from just like wow you sent 10 magazines to the wrong place and now you have to pay for shipping somewhere else, you know, and that's just coming out of my pocket. Sure. So, so long story long, now we have an external company shipping our stuff. For issue five, the first 300 are still going to come from me and they're going to come with like a bunch of awesome stuff and all that, but everything else, if you go on nudgepinball.com and you put in an order, uh, Mixum can ship it and I'm fairly certain they can do it anywhere in the world. I think we have Canadian readers who have gotten them through them. I know you've gotten them now. I think that was through Mixum. Um, so they're they're Look at that. Perfect. Those look good. Oh, nice. Yeah. Be careful. Getting attacked. So, long story long, I think you can uh internationally get all back issues of Nudge. Now, with Nudge 5 coming out soon, you you will have to wait. Just like you say soon. Well, we're going to jump back to what nudge is in a second, but when you say soon, what is the timeline for people that are eagerly awaiting or is it episode? Is it number? What do you call it? Yeah, issue five, I think. Yeah, an issue. That makes a lot of sense. Uh, I think issue five hopefully will be done by in June and I think it will be published in June or July. So, coming up really fast, actually. So, Nudge, let's let's reel it back for those that don't know what Nudge Magazine, Nudge Magazine is is a magazine. And I realize that that's a dumb statement, but in a lot of ways, it's not because we're in a world of totally digital publications, right? And this is this is not this is like a real thing. Like, I'm touching it and feeling it. And it's not made of zeros and ones. And you have to have either the biggest pair of coonace or zero zero self uh awareness to be diving into making a publication like that. Like it's 2025. What are you doing? Yeah. Well, I think it was 2020 when we started. So maybe it was smarter then. Actually, no. I think it was probably dumber. There's actually more magazines I think now than there were in 2021. Well, so you're ahead of the curve is kind of where I'm going with this joke is that like I think that more than ever now people are actually latching back on to media that means something. Uh and you can see that in the return of vinyl and kids wanting to buy CDs and stuff now like in a lot of ways the technocratic society that is pushing the giant AI monster and we'll get into we'll get into the full digital world with you later. uh you know people want something they can touch and feel and feel a part of is a human element. So what brought you to that four or five years before it was a thing? Um well it was all I really knew how to do. Um I come from like writing for alt weeklys and stuff like that. I I I'm assuming you're from LA and you guys have those there and you know I lived I grew up in this place called Oaklair and I wrote for our local Alt Weekly which is called Volume One and I would just write fun weird articles you know it's like oh we tried every tuna fish sandwich in Oaklair in a day you know and here's the article about it. It's like stupid weird stuff like that. So I actually grew up in Saudi Arabia but that's a different story. Yeah, you guys probably don't have a ton of uh alt weeklys there. Not a lot of pinball magazines in in Saudi. No. Yeah. Or just like about anything because these weren't really pinball magazines. They were like, you know, what's going on this week or like what are the cool concerts and then there would be fun little like articles in there. So, um, so I used to do that with a guy who I was also in a band with. I know you're a musician, but I was in a band called Lark Larks for many years um with this amazing drummer. My favorite drummer. I was so lucky. His name's Brian Mowen. Um, and he drums in like a lot of a lot of great bands, but he was the drummer in my band and he's also a graphic designer. So, when I kind of got the idea for Nudge, which was really just born out of like COVID boredom, like I couldn't go out on location to play pinball and I wanted to stay connected to that world. So, um, this was a way to do that. And he was a guy who I just knew had the right vision and like we had a really good working creative relationship and other stuff. And so, um, yeah, we just decided to do it. And I think it was pretty early on that I was like, I definitely want there to be, yeah, a print version of it because I hated when people are like, we're a magazine and then it's like you're it's not a magazine. It's the It's so annoying. And maybe a website. And so, like, for me, I think what's always kind of set us apart is like I just asked someone the other day cuz I I was getting flak about something, but I was like, can you say one nice thing about me? And the person was like, "I like your magazine." Like the physical magazine. I was like, "Okay, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. That's but I'm saying that's the base, right? And that's cool." Like that that we always have that I don't have to be like, "Oh, we're a podcast or, you know, rely on Instagram on Instagram stuff because we're like an IRL thing." And I see Tracy in chat. Uh, we own nothing in a digital world. I own Nudge Magazine. You can't pry from my hands. Tracy's the best because she says that and I still owe her in issue four talking about people. You should probably get that issue out. You're on the spot now. And if you don't, then the internet will have this evidence forever. Tracy and I have done this dance where we've been in the same place even with me with magazines and her needing one and it like still hasn't weirdly worked out. It's sort of a cosmic thing. So, she's going to get it exactly when she needs it. The universe will align. So you said we had someone to say something nice about you and they mentioned the magazine. So do you feel that this magazine is like an extension of you as a as an individual? It's a lifestyle magazine. It really has a lot of I mean as someone who has read the articles and checked it out like it's not it's not really a a magazine in the traditional sense. It's more of like an artistic experience. I mean there's of course articles and interviews and stuff in there but it really is kind of just an expression of you as an artist. Would you agree or interesting? Um, well, not me specifically, I guess. So, you asked about like having my real name on here and saying, you know, Doc Monday and all that. And Doc Monday was sort of my persona that I created that it was like, okay, this is like a heightened version of me that is in the magazine. Um, since then, I've been like, whatever. People just call me Ian anyway, so I just roll. I have a great story about this. I know we talked about it slightly, but I can't wait. Yeah. Um, but uh, so I just like kind of went away from that. But I I don't really think it's the cool part about a magazine is it's collaborative. I know like you kind of come from like music and film and that stuff. And so there's a different it's a different to enact a vision of a lot of people versus a vision of just yourself. So, like even though I wrote a lot of the articles early on, um I always wanted to make sure is like we've always had like, you know, a dozen photographers. I was really lucky. Gina Kletia, Kia, sorry, was like just randomly hit me up and she was this amazing photographer in New York and she's since written a ton of articles for us, but it was always like I like the collaborative part of it and I like um getting other people's perspective and influences. So, uh, that was that was kind of more that's how I see Nudge as as a collector, not just So, if you're looking at the first first issue, right, the amount of collaborators you had at issue one versus what you were doing versus issue upcoming five, like what kind of how many more people are involved in the the collaboration of Nudge now? Interesting. Um, I would say probably it's slightly larger for sure, but I think it's more like it's just I have a roster of people to pick from now. So like Gina has some photos in this one, but I don't think she wrote anything for it. And um that you know she's written something I think in every other issue, but it wasn't like we didn't I don't know. it just like we had a lot of other stuff to to pull from and and she didn't submit anything. So like I think we just have a greater like our net is bigger now. Um but it when it like when you look at like the opening page like when you look at like uh like the list of contributors and stuff, it's all like it's usually about the same amount of although that that's funny. Okay, I'm saying that but it's like we have like four or five illustrators in this one. I think we had two in the first one. Um, yeah. I like I said, I th this issue I've actually written nothing except for the like opening letter, I think. Um, so that's pretty different for for me. And it was an experience to sort of like let that go and be like also I'm not going to edit these people. I back in the day. Well, so that was going to be my next question is like what if someone submits an image and you're like, man, I don't really like this or this doesn't really pair with what I'm trying to do with Nudge. Like what's the soft let down on that? or do you just like [ __ ] it? Because I know that punk rock is a theme for Nudge and whether you would admit to it or not, like the the core of the magazine is is pretty punk attitude. Mhm. Yeah. No. Well, first of all, I really like to be an encourager. I have my masters in um like fiction writing and so I always thought I was going to be a professor and kind of like foster writers. And so for me, I always like to encourage people. I think Nudge is like a first publication for like a lot of people where either photography or um you know writing and so I like to really encourage people it's more like someone will have an idea and they're like but I can't write and I'm like just do it like and we'll make it good like it's actually not that hard to make it good enough to be a nudge. Um, so like uh so so but it does happen where someone will write something or give me something that I don't like or isn't right for the magazine I guess is yeah like how you said um and it's easy for me to tell people no because I'm a very honest person we talked off air is that I think the strength of nudge is our authenticity which flows I guess from me. Um, but I think is a commonality between all our artists, um, is that I really value authentic thought and like tell me what you actually think because then we can get to somewhere interesting. So, so I don't know if you know this from watching previous episodes, uh, but we have some illustration contributors to, uh, Dirty Pool as well, and I'm just curious if you think that this drawing here, is it nudge caliber? Sure. Definitely. Yeah, for sure. It's got a vibe. It's got perspective. Uh I like that the O is [ __ ] up. Um yeah, definitely. Who Who said that? I'm going to let I'm going to let Greg know that not only did uh Johnny Crap uh think that this was an alternate backlash for Stern's uh new white and green version of Godzilla. Uh but that nudge magazine also is uh thinks that he's got what it takes to be a nudge, dude. A spearmint. um like color combo. Godzilla would be awesome, right? I mean, Godzilla is green sometimes. He's a lizard kind of, right? He's like a bear bear donkey lizard. Maybe if you could figure out some kind of like cream uh like uh armor to it or something like that would be really interesting to me. See, that's where I don't think the pinball manufacturers have the like the coahones to do that kind of like early 90s like Tandy computer cream, you know? Like I think that that's that's the texture and feel that that pinball, you know, trim needs is more vintage computing. I like diversity of like sort of like art and color and so I think it would be interesting to play around in that sandbox. you say that, but I like I do think it it could be kind of fun and and right now we're basically only getting black powder coats, right? So, yeah. Uh it might be I love it. The Kong one is is smooth matte. I really like it. It's not textured and it's not glossy. It's like hard matte. It's I love I mean I'm a guy who wears all black and so and I love matte black. I like same for water bottles. So I'm I I'm kind of fully [ __ ] when I'm like oh black powder coat everything cuz that's how I would do it too. It's funny because I'm I'm about the black clothing as well. I mean, I got my scanner shirt on right now. Uh but also I have a neon pink water bottle, so I feel like it's important to have like contrast, you know? Yeah, maybe. I don't know. I'm I'm a little [ __ ] Silky. All right. So, really reeling it back to note. So, you mentioned being a band. I actually didn't know you were in a band. Mhm. Yeah. I was in a um indie rock band called Larks for many years and we toured and we were on um a label called Absolutely Kosher which they used to have like Pinback on there so it was kind of like that era. We were towards the tail end of when they were a label. um they kind of were a big deal for a while cuz they had great distribution, but I think kind of when the internet like you know they never recovered from like after Napster and like just like music streaming and and iTunes and that kind of stuff. So uh they folded right before we were about to release our second album. So, our second album we just released uh you know on our own and then yeah, we never really officially broke up, but you know, I moved to California, the drummer moved to California, um our guitar player moved to North Carolina. So, yeah, it's funny. The late 90s, early 2000s basically like cashed out a lot of smaller labels just because the idea of a label like disappeared. And it's almost in a lot of ways weird that it's like kind of coming back now as like a curated playlist thing. Like record labels still exist now, but it's more like they represent clusters of artists and a social media distribution platform instead of a physical media distribution platform, which is what they existed as before. My label is still around too, but it has since you know changed its format in such a way that it's just like it's not the same. So yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I love music. Um, I still will I have a piano. You can kind of see back there. I do. I see that. I have a piano, too. Although you can't see it from this angle. Nice. Um, and and so I I still like playing music. Brian is actually obsessed. He's his like white whale that he's been finishing for like years and years as he has a soundproof basement studio and it's like gone through so many iterations and like so many, you know, rewrites, redesigns. Um, but I think it's he's almost done with it and then once he is, we were talking about it's like that'll be a fun thing for after Nudge uh sessions to go jam out. So you say almost done with it, but anybody who's been treating a space knows it's like an unfinished song. There's always something else you can do. Yeah, his wife is pushing him towards the finish line at this point, I think, just through being a bit exasperated. As am I. Like I'm not just going to put that on her. Like figure it out, Brian. So what instrument do you play? um in bands. So I was the primary songwriter uh in singer and larks and I played keyboards. So it's interesting that you mentioned that you're a singer um because you had called and left me a message and uh I'm I made a little diddy out of it and uh you know I'm kind of hoping maybe uh maybe you could freestyle over it a little bit. Uh you know, let's jam. Oh [ __ ] It's pretty similar, I imagine, to what uh to what your indie rock sounds like, right? Yeah, it's well one to one pretty much. Uh, see, now I I don't know if I've baited you to leave me more voice messages or never any voice messages, which I guess either way we'll figure it out. No, I I told you I love people creating art. So, uh, you know, if that So, this is a good segue into AI. We got to talk about AI. Yeah, definitely. We have to talk about it because you were very vocal on Instagram about it. I am. Yeah, I'm kind I am. Yeah, it's I I'm a bit anti- AI. I'm not anti- AI, but I'm anti- Okay. Do you can I just give you my like two seconds? Of course. That's what we're here for. This is a This is for you to talk about everything and me to poke you to get it out. Okay. So, I think that AI like using AI to create art is sort of a fundamental misunderstanding of what art is. Um, I think art is comes from people because the world is a weird place full of like ups and downs and things that we don't understand. And so it imprints itself on our brains and when it does that we have to barf something out. And so for some of us that means art and that can be like the pictures we take, movies we make, stories we write, music we sing. Um and so for me art is a process of it's like a therapy or a or like pinball or like um meditation like it's a way in which I it's something I do because I have to and it enriches my life. And so I think when we start with AI sometimes we start to view art even if we're not selling it. I think we view art as a commodity. Like we kind of like these inputs plus this and then we put it through a factory and then out out comes art, right? Like art is the thing that comes out. But to me that is not what art is like that that is the document of like part of the process of art, right? Um like a draft will go through sever several rewrites. So like which is the piece of art, right? Um right. So for me, art is the process. And so when you can say AI is part of this process, to me, I think it sort of short um short circuits the creative thinking parts of your brain um during art and the rewrites and the really hard just sitting there, right? like you know this uh for me this is definitely true is like any story I write is boring the first time or like wrong or like [ __ ] up or bad and I only through re the process of revision and understanding what I'm trying to say like does it actually get to some place where it's interesting. So for sure, even even if you think the first version of what you've done is amazing, taking a break and coming back to it with perspective and seeing the things that could be improved on it is just part of the art experience. And I think that what blows my mind about AI is that the first thing that AI does for humanity is to attack the creative output of everyone. And in in my world, and maybe this is for other people too, but like I spent my time working so that I could then spend time being creative. So now you're using AI to do the creative portion for you. So now what happens? What do you do with your free time when the the AI is now taking that away? It's like existence has like very little purpose at that point. Yeah. Well, it's it's interesting and I I'm just talking about it strictly from the artist like perspective of it. Um, you're right like the greater like kind of societal implications for AI art or AI anything else. It's funny um in my day job I'm a copywriter and some of our clients utilize AI I think in some really interesting ways. I think like in in terms of like disseminating information and being able to like scan large documents and give like um accessible understandable information to people that's really useful um and like that's cool. So that's like an idea like where AI where I'm totally okay with it. But I think yeah when I mean first of all I don't think the I don't think the argument against AI can ever be that AI art looks bad because Eventually AI art will be in disccernible from human art. I think totally. So like so so then it truly is just like the fundamental of like how we view art and I I went into like how I think that's different. Now I do understand right like we've had this talk cuz I think do you use you use some AI like you I used AI in the beginning of and this is an this is an interesting point because I used AI in the beginning of the channel because it's a lot of work to make a channel and I didn't realize that when I started doing this because I didn't sit down and jump into this being like man I'm going to start a channel I'm going to start a podcast like [ __ ] no that's not how this started. I was like, "Man, I I did my fun Twilight Zone thing. I want to show people that. Let's do that." And then I was like, "Shit, I need some graphics and I don't really feel like harassing my art friends to give me stuff for free because I feel bad for that. So, I'm going to start using AI." And then you and I had a conversation about that in its entirety. And I was like, "Man, you know, like people really do frown upon AI work. I'm curious how much more effort it is to kind of attack this." And now my workflow is different. You know, I I take photography photos that are like macro shots of back glasses to use as elements for my thumbnails. I take the time I have a font I have a font selection that I like to use. So, like now my brand is now based around a workflow that doesn't incorporate AI from like a visual standpoint. I still use AI to help write copy for descriptions and things like that because I don't have the time to write 50 [ __ ] tags. So, you know, but the I enjoy the process now much more than I did before where I was just typing in prompts and having it do the thing. So, yeah, that's that's dope. And I totally understand like the constraints both like time and moneywise of like why like there is an argument for AI and art as well. I'm not like blind to it. I'm just saying like for me from uh from my own aesthetics for my own like I have the luxury of knowing like a lot of artists who will do work for cheap uh you know that's my network that is like something lucky about me and I'm not afraid to to tap into people especially if I feel like we're all working towards a towards a greater goal right to make something really cool of course. So, for a channel that's just starting, right, and you see that they have AI work, what do you say to that? Because you've been vocalized that you've like unfollowed channels that use AI work. Yeah. I mean, well, that's what I would tell them. I would say, you know, just, you know, if if you want me to [ __ ] with you, these are the people that I [ __ ] with, and it's really easy, but also like, what do you care if I [ __ ] with you or not? You know what I mean? which is also which is also a good that's a good lesson I've learned as a streamer starting off too is like I don't generally give a [ __ ] about anything ever but the fact that I started this thing is like I really care about pinball and by that weird way like I really do care what people think of what I'm doing like I wouldn't put this much effort into having it look and try to look really nice because I want people to come on to something and be engaged and enjoy it. Um but yeah, you mentioned your social network circles. Yeah. Well, I just I just really wanted to respond to that real quick because I think um yeah, I I totally understand the like I said, I understand the constraints of of starting out and you do want to take the audience into consideration, but also I think the audience is wrong about a lot of stuff. Um and like the audience especially Reddit Yeah. or just like the audience will c catch on to what you're doing. Um so you don't have to chase an audience I don't think like I it was really funny um starting Nudge because how perfectly timed is this? I'm sorry but we love pinball just rated us and we're right in the midst of talking about loving pinball and the community and what that means. Uh I that's just hilarious timing. Uh welcome welcome to the channel Raiders. Uh yeah, we're talking with Ian from Nudge. Here it is. Yeah, for sure. Uh hey guys. Um uh but I I Yeah, I kind of lost my train of thought there. I'm sorry. Yeah, it was just too it was too coincidental that they just happened to join. Absolutely. So I will say that uh there was a turning point for me and I'm curious if this happened with Nudge where when I first started I was trying to only get like I was pinging the community to be like, "Hey, do you like this? do you like this? To try to figure out what to do as what I wanted. And then all of a sudden I like I just stopped caring and I'm just like I'm going to make what I want and I'm going to embrace that and like you're either on board or you're not. And it's like you're not the enemy if you don't. But this isn't for you then. And And I'm not trying to accommodate anybody. So yeah. Was Nudge like that? Well, even having all the market in Pinball, what does that mean? Pinball is such a niche community. I mean, we love we we love pinball coming in with six people. That's amazing for us. Those are amazing numbers. We love it, right? Because those are people who directly are in line with us. But I I just think like, okay, you have the whole pinball audience. So what? Like we're coming from music, right? Like I grew up with Bony Bear. Like there's no one in pinball who is as famous. Like Keith Elwin is not as famous as Justin Vernon of Bony Bear. So it's like maybe Roger Sharp is the only other person that's more famous than all of them. So like probably not unfortunately but uh in our in our world 100%. But I I just think like I always wanted to since it's such a niche audience I wanted to niche down more and I think like the people who find us are the ones who really get it and there's like a surprising number of them. Um my my buddy Matt who does all our music reviews he gave me really good advice. He was like, "Start small and good and people will find you, you know." Um, so don't worry about as much the hustle of of the marketing part of it. Um, just really concentrate on on finding whatever that vision is and just like really doing it. So yeah, I really didn't I didn't think too much. Well, I started Nudge because I didn't think that there was a lot in pinball that was sort of speaking to my experience. Dead flip for sure. Loved like early dead flip like straight. That's Jack Danger for anybody watching and doesn't know. I mean, I assume that most people that are watching this and listening to this know a lot about pinball, but people who don't, you're subbed. Uh, but um and and like Buffalo pinball, there were definitely people, but even within that, there wasn't that sort of like I came from bands and skateboarding and that kind of culture where there's like this sneering, having fun, you know, making fun of stuff. Uh, and so that was like I that was like my nucleus. I wasn't thinking about um pinball audience at all really. Right. But I mean your magazine now has its own identity because of that. And I mean there are no other pinball magazines really that I can think of. There's a I think a guy in Argentina that I purchased that he has an art art book that is designed around pinball and it's like playfield artwork, but there's no publication like that. Um there are certainly other news outlets, you know, I'm going to mention Kineticist and Nap Arcade. You know, those are two really good sources, but they they run more like the Gawker Media style like blog thing and talk about what's new in pinball, what games are coming out, and uh and you don't do that. No, we're not not what this is about. No, we're not chained to like um like minuteby minute like news updates, which I'm really lucky about. I always say that the stories in pinball come from people like anywhere else. So, um those stories a lot of times are evergreen. like I I'm really proud like we you know we have that big article about Jack Bar um in there or the people who run Pin Baltimore or like those kind of things are the things that interest me is just like why are these people doing in this hobby like there's no money in it there's no fame in it. We've We've talked about that but they do it anyway. They do it because it's cool like pinball Olympics and it's fun and it's weird and it's just like makes life more interesting. So like that was always what I wanted to focus on. Um yeah. So you mentioned we had a story says. Yeah. Exactly right. Because we love it. So for sure. Uh we we talked about your uh secret persona. One of my first streams, I had mentioned Nudge and a a person talked about how they had found a phone number on the back of an early Nudge issue that was a kind of like a a emergency pinball hotline and they had a really bad experience on I want to say it was theater or magic. I can't remember the game. and that they called the number and it's just your number and then you talked them off this like pinball ledge where they had basically shortcircuited on a really frustrating series of of plays on this game and uh you acted as like a pinball therapist. What? Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean I love that kind of stuff. I love weird interactive stuff or like you know you call a number, you think it's just going to be whatever and then it's real, right? So, like, yeah, we gave away these. They were cards. Um, they're and and we do them still. I think I'll probably do it with this with this next one if uh if people want them, but um yeah, they're little cards, like membership cards, and uh it was like if you're in the Nudge 100 was how it started. Eventually, it got bigger than that, but it was like the first hundred people would get these cards. And on the back, it just had my phone number kind of in a code, but really a really easy to figure out code. Um, got to keep the AI bots from getting it right. Well, yeah. Well, and it was just in people's wallet, so I hopefully no AI was was getting in there. But, um, soon. Yeah. Right. Uh, but yeah, so people would just call me like random times, usually kind of drunk or like just to see like it was funny. It was very much like little kids sleepover energy where the it's like two guys are like, "Let's call it and like see what happens." and then, you know, it would be me idiots, uh, you know, and and kind of like have that that attitude with it. Um, I always love that. I like to be supportive of people, but also be like making fun of them at the same time. I think that's I I support that for sure. It's great to make fun of people. By the way, did you hear this cool song I wrote about you? No. Right. Exactly. We'll save that for later again. Um, well, okay. So, what's the what's I have to What's the most fascinating phone call that you've got from it? I you already mentioned the like sleepover energy which is perfect. I think that's such a a funny I mean this is also so uniquely you. I mean uh yeah you've embraced pinball lifestyle outside of it and I yeah sure run away. Bye. For people who don't know, like pinball people when pinball happens to you, you either like obsess over it and it just becomes like your life or you don't like I feel like people just embrace pinball and it just consumes you and and you get it or it's just the thing that you know exists at a bar in the back corner that has been neglected. Okay. Weirdest call or like best call. Um the best call. Yeah. The best call I got was um well I I won't use their name but a very very successful tournament pinball player like definitely top 20 ranked actually messaged me before um I think nationals maybe soc called you now it wasn't but but someone else you know around that level actually did call and I said a prayer for him like a pinball prayer and uh But I kind of hyped them up and I was like, "You're going to do this. Like, you're going to [ __ ] go, man. Like, let's lock in." And uh I think they did pretty good. I don't I was going to say, did they win? Do you remember the prayer? Can you Can you give Can you recant this prayer? Well, Well, kind of part of it was like it was in the moment and I was like, "This guy's taking this seriously, so I'm going to take it as serious as he's taking it." Right. So, um it it's a little bit different energy if I if I would do it right now. But, uh Sure. No, I get it. It's an in the moment thing. I just love the idea as a pinball prayer. That was the most That was like the most probably special. And then in terms of just like weirdest. It's It always truly is like drunk guys being like, "What?" You know, like that's usually what happens. They're like, "Is it really you?" And I'm like, "Yeah, man. Like it it's not that hard to get a hold of me." I'm like, "All my best phone calls come from when I'm really drunk, so I I understand." Yeah. No, it's it's it yeah, it it's definitely been a fun thing and and it's led to me connecting with like our quote unquote fans. I always said too, like I wanted a kill squad, like meaning I didn't want a billion fans. I wanted like a hundred fans that would like die for us, you know? So, um I think this kind of fosters that energy. We always had like cult kind of imagery and stuff in our You know who loves cults? Dirty Pool loves cults. I mean, we do praise the great pyramid in the sky of pinball, and tub guy gives vast to everyone. So, you know, if anybody here understands the cult aspect of pinball, uh, I get it. Uh, Ian has now disappeared. So, we're going to talk to that picture on the wall. Oh, we're back. This is our This is our first print that we did. So, you can see Is that Tatch the artwork? It is. Yeah. Yep. He's He's one of our main illustrators. So, yeah. So, funny story. I reached out to him. I want to plug him just because he's working on two absolutely fascinating homebrew games. And uh yeah, I had I had a chitchat with him and I want to help him finalize his games in terms of audio assets. So I'm really I'm really excited to to [ __ ] take that on. He's a super nice guy. His artwork is really wild and uh you know to your creative network, man. It's just It has a But that's what I was saying is this was our first print and like it has a very like cult weird, you know, I think the game's called Blood and Guts or something or Yeah, it has some weird Yeah, Blood and Guts. Um, and that's his I think he actually ended up making that game, but uh like IRL, but um yeah, so we we've always like wanted that small audience of just like weirdos. That was kind of the Everybody loves pinball weirdos. Speaking of Speaking of weird things, I was uh I just assumed the the website was Nudge Magazine. I don't know if you've ever gone to this website. Uh oh. Uh nudgemagazine.com. Yeah. No, I have no nudge pinball.com. Don't even tell people to go to nudge magazine.com. I don't want No, but I did translate this and it's not it's not scary. It's talking about wholesome creativity and human existence and stuff like that, which I think is pretty funny. But, uh, if you do go to this website, I just want to This is not the website. This is not Nudge Magazine. This is the website you want to go to. If you see a pinball machine in the background, that is the correct website. If you see a bunch of Arabic, not the right website. Also, by the way, you read it right to left, which I should know since I lived there for many years. But anyways, yeah. Oh, that's that's wild. That's cool. Uh, I want to throw the chat real quick while I check my notes, but uh part of the whole point of this is to have people in chat ask questions. Um, I have been hogging hogging the mic here, but uh, if anybody has anything they want to ask Ian, uh, social security number, uh, date of birth, home address, any of that kind of information, I'm sure he'd be happy to ask or answer. I want to shout out Divisible Error for writing the most amazing pinball prayer I've ever seen. Unless this Unless you just fed this into an AI and then I'm going to feel like an ass. I don't know. Oh, he definitely did. You want to know? Here's the surefire way you can tell. You ready? If the hyphen is long, it's AI. So, I'm calling him out. You used AI Divisible. But I also do want to shout Divisible out. Divisible is one of the I think Disable was the second person who joined my stream uh when it first started like 4 months ago. And uh he's on almost every episode and I he's bought a bazillion subs for the channel and uh yeah, he's he's the man. I dig it. Mildly creepy, still the man. I I want to know the context of what Hired Goons is talking about where they said, "I know it was settled with a poll, but we should ask our question about Kong terminology." Okay, that's an excellent question. Uh so, let me uh let me pull up a really important uh video here. Um, so first off, we were talking about King Kong's member, and by that I mean his penis, and we needed to identify it correctly on stream, and we needed to know whether it was Kong Schlong or Kong Dong. So, we did a poll. I just curious what uh what you think that that correct. Mcnomer, is that like a Mc Sandwich? Is that MC Hamburg? I don't know. McN, that's right. Yeah. What What's the correct Mcnomer on that? Uh, I would say the Mcdomer is Yeah. Dong. Definitely dong. Kong. Okay. Well, that's what won. So, you are absolutely correct. Uh, it is Kong Dong. If you call it the Kong Schlong, shame on you. Kong Schlong is just like like that in the middle of a sort of port manto or whatever that is. Uh, it doesn't I don't like how it sounds. Do you? Okay. So, uh, this is something else that's really fascinating. Um, so Hired Goons actually was on the stream and uh he is a he is a film buff and historian and he did a ton of research and we went down the entire history of Kong from 1933 all the way up to present. This is not a joke. We went through he went through the history of everything from its creation. We touched base on some fascinating stuff that I didn't know about. Like for example, Godzilla was originally supposed to be Frankenstein which is one reason why Godzilla is charged up by lightning. This is not a joke. And uh and and what the origins of these stories came from. It's a fascinating stream. I highly recommend it. Uh, but one of the things he mentions is this uh Jessica Stephen Lang Kong that involves King Kong blowing her dry. Let's take a And Ron Ron Paul 420 is saying that a flaccid penis is a dong. So that's I don't know about that. I think it any form of it is still a dong. Okay. Well, I I mean, I'm just with a name like Ron Paul 420. He probably knows what he's talking about when it comes to flaccid dongs, but Oh, man. Look at this. This is This is truly I don't like this at all. It's hard to watch, which is why I love having it on the stream. Um, inter species romance, I guess. I mean, if you really need to get dry quick, you need a giant ape, I think, is really the lesson here. Does this smell like bananas? Like the old uh King Kong ride, like when he blows on you, is it warm bananas? That's a good question. Is it warm bananas? Cuz that's Do you know what I'm talking about? Right. Like that old Universal, they scented it, right? Yeah. When he would like yell at you, it was like or yell at you. When King Kong would yell at you for being late with your articles, uh it would be like warm banana breath that um shot out. Yeah. Yum. All right. Does anybody Oh, right. I forgot YouTube watches, too, cuz we dual stream. What's up, Joe? Thanks so much. I loved King Kong as a kid. The ending was heartbreaking. Yeah, it is sad. Uh, but don't worry, he comes back in all the other movies and gets healed. And he has he there's a Lady Kong. He makes a baby Kong. He beats up a bunch of rednecks. Like, I learned a lot about King Kong on uh on said stream to put it though. You're getting you're getting uh ombbudsman right now that King Kong is actually the supposed to be Frankenstein in the original Godzilla versus King Kong. What? That doesn't even make sense to me. So, there was a Frankenstein that was like a million miles high. All right, so Hired Goons is going to have to to chime in on this, but from my memory, so the the franchise took a 30-year hiatus after the first movie, and they rushed out a second movie to try to capitalize in it. So, in a lot of ways, King Kong was responsible for the first kind of like sequel uh cash-in concept. And then uh they came back with a another film where the creator wanted to create a Frankenstein monster to have King Kong fight Frankenstein as its like thing. But then Godzilla was really big in Japan at that point because Godzilla originally had come out. So then they decided to replace Frankenstein with Godzilla to make, you know, more cross-pollinated kaiju situation. And uh they made two giant Frankenstein movies in Japan. That's right. And he mentioned that the in the German dubs of this even after the first film. So King Frankenstein was in the first film, I guess, way, but they keep referring to King Kong as Frankenstein in the [ __ ] German dubs of it because the franchise just had that from the first from the first movie. And so it's it's like a relic of this situation that had happened in the dubs of all of these secondary films. So yeah, I'm not kidding. That stream rocks. Our pinball play not so great, but the Kong Dong story is it runs deep. Definitely. Uh wait, I like this question from Nice Koozie. They say, "Ian, what was your relationship to art, design, and text prior to Nudge?" Um that's a great question. That is Well, I'm a writer uh by trade, I guess. Um, and so I have had like I was a fiction writer mostly, but I had also like I worked for Zoatrope for a little bit as a script reader and um, like I've been interested in film and that stuff, but uh, most of my professional work was as a writer. Um, and then I got into photography really when Okay, it's funny, man. Like this is like a good example of like I didn't want to use AI. I didn't want to use stock art when I started Nudge. So, I use disposable cameras. I didn't even know anything about film photography. And then uh my ex, not ex at the time, but her dad uh just saw me take all these disposable cameras. Like, what the hell? Uh he's like, "Do you want do you just want my film camera that I like used to?" And he had like some, you know, Canon Rebel Pro from 20 2002 or something. And um I have that camera, too, dude. It's a camera. I still Yeah, it's really compact for being a DSLR. I love it. I love it. It's like, okay, it has a plastic body. So what? Like big any camera is going to break if if you drop it. So, um, like it's really just about the lenses that you can attach to it. And the EOS system is awesome. But we don't have to nerd out on on photography. Well, you and I connected over photography. I I'll jump into that real quick because I have some photo stuff afterwards, but continue. Yeah. Well, and then on the design side of things, like I said, Brian is has always been like my be like he's my best friend. He's also like my main creative partner. And so we have very similar aesthetics. I've always loved skateboarding, comics, like anime, um that kind of stuff. And so there was no one that I trusted more as far as like doing layouts and graphic design than him. And I had a very definite like image for what I wanted it to be. And when he came up with like the the logo, um it was like right right away. So yeah nice. Um so yeah when we first chitchated on the old Instagrams it was all about photography cuz I was like dude you use actual film for your cameras. I'm like that's crazy. We had just gotten I had bought my wife a hustleblot because she had to sell hers back in college when she was broke to make ends meet. And I was just like, man, like it's people don't understand the process of real film and how difficult it is to to shoot shots. And then you were talking about how you guys do you trade film canisters and and shoot double exposures and all this [ __ ] Do you I mean when you're you told me you shoot uh what 35, right? Yeah, I shoot 35. We I mean we've had medium format in the magazine and other stuff too, but yeah, I mostly I shoot 35. Sure. Not Not trying to say one better than the other, but I'm just like do you light meter your situations? Do you just yolo it? like what is how what is your process when you go to an event and you've got your camera and you've got your film and you're like [ __ ] it, you know? Yeah. I mean, well, I can't do a lot of photography at like highlevel pinball events because of that exact thing because I don't I really have to direct flash a lot of that [ __ ] Um that's kind of the nudge look is like a lot of direct flash. Um so people love that when they're playing competitive pinball, by the way. Exactly. But that's what I mean is like that's a no-go. And usually if I'm going to do that even at some place, I'll ask someone ahead of time. I'll be like, "Hey, just so you know, like can I just like snap a couple?" And usually people are cool there. I mean, you know, the people who aren't cool and you avoid them. Um, but yeah, so I I mean I do use a light light meter and we have like studio shoots, you know, where we'll we really figure it out in multiple light sources and really, you know, light it old school the way that it's kind of meant to be. Even using a um like a I always want to call it a diffuser, but basically a fog machine. Um I love I love doing those kind of shoots. Uh and I think it's so fun, especially with how many colored lights come out of a pinball machine. I feel like fog is like I mean you're like basically creating the rave the rave environment of a pinball dream dude 100%. And the world under glass is so real. Like for me I just know I guess if I'm shooting really close-ups of like stuff in a pinball machine. I know I'm always going to have interesting lighting. I I don't think I've ever run into a situation even shooting you know you can't in color film. People right now are just like logging off in drugs, I bet, because who cares? Like talk about a thing more niche and like like who cares about chemicals and stuff like photography is so much like film photography is is I don't know about I feel like photography and and pinball are I would say photography is more popular than pinball but also like well [ __ ] we're talking about the minutia. We're talking about some minutia of photography right now. So basically the higher ISO film you have, right guys at home, uh the basically you can just you can shoot in lower light. You need lower light for the chemicals to react. Um and that's how you get a picture on with film. So uh is a photographer there. That's right up their alley. Oh, right on. Sick. Hell yeah. Flash at 160. Lol. Yeah. Well, yeah. Nice koozie. Thank you. is trying to that's that's the that's the refresh rate of most LEDs which is the joke there for for f-stop speed maybe not the joke but it is true when you're trying to film playfield so this kind of translates real quick to interject so like when I'm setting up my camera to actually film the playfields like most modern games run close enough to 60 Hz that you don't get flickering in the light bulbs but boy oh boy if you put LEDs in a in a system 11 the system 9 game or anything like that it's it's a pain in the ass because you're getting flickering from those light bulbs bulbs, which is, you know, something you don't get with the analog bulbs. So, like photography and and electrical systems are a hard combination sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Uh yeah, it's I I'm just not afraid to like mess up. I think that's kind of what I've learned is like you just experiment with what you got. What I like about film is you're living in the moment because you can't see you can't see what you got. Um and you got 36 shots at it and that's it. So, um, anyway, oh, Tracy, thank you for, um, shouting out d them. I appreciate that. Uh, anybody who doesn't shoot film also knows, like you said, you've got 36 shots. Like, you cannot just mash the [ __ ] shutter button. Like, knowing that you have a limited resource makes you think so much more about what you're capturing the frame of. Yeah, I really do like a lot of double taps is what I call them, right? Is like I'll hit it once and then I'll probably try to hit it maybe one more time. Really? um like either with a flash or I mean just kind of messing with something is like I try to get the initial image then if I'm if it's really important to me I'll go for a double but other than that you're right it's like just singles every single time. So I do want I do want to answer this question because it's FMK [ __ ] Mary kills solid states and moderns um [ __ ] uh em. So, while you think about that, on my first post on Reddit as Dirty Pool, I did an FMK and people were like, "Fuck you. The pinball community doesn't need this." Blah Blah blah. And now I saw Kineticist do an FMK. We're It just happened now in the chat. Like, I'm not saying I started the FMK for pinball. Well, but what the hell, guys? I see a lot I see a lot more film style film style images out there of of pinball machines, too. You just got to roll with it, man. People If you come up with a good If you come up with a good idea, people are going to steal it and you just got to keep up keep on coming up with good ideas. All right. What's your What's your [ __ ] Mary kill for I'm guessing. Do you have to pick one of each and slot them or do you need three for each? Let's just do one of each. Just one of each. Yeah. Okay. Well, I I thought we were doing it as a concept because I would say like I would [ __ ] em like temporary. That's good. I like that. Merry moderns kill solid states. Sorry. Okay. Um, I have I have one for you that's really important that we ask uh pretty frequently on here. So, I need you to fk this series of games. All right. Raven. Yeah. Raven. Mhm. Raven. It's okay. Think about it. Yeah, I'll think. Hold. Give me a sec. Yeah, understand. So, I think I'm going to go [ __ ] Raven. Mary I'm gonna say marry Raven and kill. No way. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Hot T. That's not what I That's not what I expected to be honest. I reserve the right to change that, but that is my initial thoughts on it. Okay. If you want to change the order right now, let me know. No, I'm going to stick with it, but I'm just saying if I think about it tonight, like if I'm up late at night and just like then I reserve the right to change that. Uh if I had your phone number, I'm going to call you at 2 in the morning and ask you if that's still the same series of FMK that you want. Uh I'm just going to throw this out there. If anybody is listening to this this on VOD or podcast, by the way, it is now on podcast. Uh, and you have a card that has Ian's number on him, I'm telling you right now, I want you to call him at 2 in the morning and ask him of FMK Ravens what the order is for him. And if he's holding to it, feel free to call him constantly at 2:00 in the morning in the next 24 to 48 hours. Uh, yeah. So, thank you. Nice. Okay. Wait, another question. What was the best part of Portland outside of the pinball? the great question. Um, well, I the people is the copout, but that was the I had fun. I had a ton of fun um hanging out with folks uh uh Jason from Starcade and all the dudes from Wedge Head and um you know, I got I was really lucky. So, I went out to Portland to perform in this thing called Mortified. I don't know if you're familiar with that. I'm not familiar with that. Yeah. It's like they have you come in and basically read like writings that you did from when you're like 15 to 20, just like really embarrassing stuff. Um, and so yeah, it was super fun and I was doing a show and it was nice cuz it kind of dovetailed with Nudge because all my writing happened when I worked at the mall uh in high school. I was really bored. So it was like I read through all the like there I remember there were two Charles Barkley biographies and autobiographies. I read them both cuz one is, and I'm sure you know this, but one is Who's Afraid of an Angry Black Man? And the other one is I may be wrong, but I doubt it. Like, what an excellent title. I know. So, I was inspired and I started writing back then. But anyway, so I un I unearthed this stuff, got to go out to Portland and while I was there, um, everyone in Portland like showed me an amazing time. We have a Nudge article coming out about it, um, probably next week. Um, but yeah, the pinball is amazing. Uh, I don't know if you've ever been up there. It's really I have. Every bar is filled with pinball machines. It's like [ __ ] pinball heaven. It's that, but there also like a lot of gots. Like Wedge Head is named Wedge Head and I get that, but just in general, it felt like um you got really good old goats in like the best shape that you're ever going to see him. And I play those at like um conventions and stuff too, but it's just the culture is built up there in a way that I think the operators really uh Yeah, they give a [ __ ] Yeah. And they put those games out there. So, so yeah, but definitely I I just I hate to say like, oh, it was the people, but truly it was the people. And also Lloyd Center Mall is the weirdest place in the world. I love it. Um so I have a question and then a statement that I'm curious what your thoughts are. The question is, uh, at Mortified, were you glad that you finally had an outlet to read all of your Pokemon fanfiction? My book was called The Mall is Full of Ugly People. So, that was what it was about. Um, and yeah, I was happy. Okay. Yeah, quite happy. Cool. Uh, the second statement that I want to put out there, and I'm I'm doing this because I know a lot of arcades watch and I and follow me, and I think this is really important. I believe and tell me your thoughts. It is the responsibility of arcades to fill their arcades with the history of pinball and not only modern games because it is impossible for people to play those games. And in a large respect to that, arcades are responsible to kind of keep that heritage alive. Cuz I hate going to arcades and only seeing the latest Stern games where that's where the home ownership is. Boy, responsible is a heavy word to use. I don't like to use that kind of word. There's a limited number. Who else is going to do this? Pinball museums like Vegas. That's such a large quantity of games. They're so poorly maintained. It's not a good avenue to to kind of like represent pinball history. Okay. Here's Here's where we're going to switch roles right now. Are you are you ready? I'm doing Are you on top or bottom? what you what you said about AI and ear and artists starting out I'm going to use now for modern sterns and new arcades right the level of difficulty for doing a successful venture like an arcade the margins are so small already that really you to give yourself the best shot to succeed unfortunately you need to kind of have the thing with like standard everything right like you're going to be able to fix this you're going to be able to know like you get on message boards everyone's talking about it. And so I think in that way I totally understand. I never do. Is it a place that I love to go to? Like as someone who at this point is like a pinball hipster? No. But like do I understand why slash am I okay with it? Like yes. Also I like modern games. So what's a way? By the way, I think the term should be pipster, right? If we're going to use pin influencer as a name, then it should be pipster for a pinball hipster. Uh let's brainstorm. What's the way that arcades can help build extra revenue so that they do have overhead to to cuz repair on older games is a lot. Like I know how to repair most system 9, system 11 games just because I was lucky enough to have somebody that put them my Rick's been on the show. He's a good friend of mine. He was a Disney Imagineer for 30 years or is still and he put himself through college back in the 70s, you know, repairing pinball machines. So like, you know, like this is I'm lucky to have that as a resource. Uh, but you know, not everyone who owns an arcade knows how to fix every game. So, what do you do? You We fixed it right here in chat. Take out one stone and replace it with a plastic crane game. Economic crisis averted. Think about it. You could get like a Pokemon crane game, right? And then they could wall the sides of it with your with your Pokemon fanfiction and it could be like a combo like, you know, Ian uh Nudge SL uh you know, Pokemon money experience. you're really the one pushing the agenda that I love Pokemon, which is fine, but uh that not totally accurate. That is a good idea though, Ron Paul 420. I think like uh or you could have, you know, how um now they have like unattended arcades sometimes like that are all sort of like on card swipe systems and I think they're mostly like maybe you have a little room that's open all the time with Crane games for like those freaks cuz it does seem like kids really love that stuff. Oh my god, my daughter loves the Crane games. All she does is it's just like a money dump. I hate it. Yeah, but she loves it. A bunch of like plushies. You're like I like I've seen I've seen I don't know if you I'm sure you guys have them out there, but like people will move like have a shopping cart. I'm like that just gives me so much anxiety. Like I hate that. Uh I've never seen a shopping cart full of plushies at at a at a bowling alley, but I believe it. I believe it. They exist. It's terrible. But um yeah, so I think maybe uh a couple crane games and then next door to that at a bar, right? That's where we have a couple ems or solid states or whatever like people like when people have given up on life and they want to play a game that you know we'll do that. So then what's the what's the way for older games from the 80s and 90s? Games that are just hard to repair. Like, do you recommend that people that are getting new into the hobby buy one of those games cuz they're cheaper knowing that the repair on it is going to be more? Like I mean, well, it's different. Putting something on location and having it in your house are two very different things. Um, the location games get beat the [ __ ] up. That's true. I I don't think I don't think that like you have Lethal Weapon 3 at home, like you're gonna have fun and probably it's gonna be fine. So, uh, but I don't know why I picked that. I just like Lethal Weapon 3. So, I think that was maybe maybe why. But I mean, I have a I have a Torpedo Alley in here. We've We've talked about a great game. I love that game. Oh, for sure. And And I agree with what Sheenius Sheen says here, which is literally sitting here with Cleo opened up in a naked kiss. Naked kiss. Wow. Really a poetic language. I'm guessing I'm guessing OG Kiss since there are many kiss versions at this point. Yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably. So, but learn to repair, win the lottery. I think that's that's totally valid. Just the commonality with art and pinball and engineering, I think, is like you can't be afraid to mess up. You can't be afraid to take stuff apart and think that you're going to be able to get it back together. And for the most part, you're not going to get shocked to death from a pinball machine. I think 50 volts is pretty much the biggest zap you're going to get from hitting a coil wrong. Uh but don't don't quote me on that cuz if you fry yourself on a transformer, I you know, whatever. I didn't tell you to do that. Um been zapped before. What's that? You've been zapped? I have been zapped. I have been zapped. Weirdly, my Ghostbusters, my Stern Ghostbusters uh doesn't have a voltage disconnect switch in it. And uh I don't know if that was uh how Stern manufactured it at the time. Like there's literally no door kill for it. Um, so I've never actually looked if there's another method for that, but I have pulled the playfield out too low and it has grounded the contacts for the solenoid and zapped me through the [ __ ] frame of the game, which that super sucked. Uh, and it's not fun. Uh, but you know, like you're not going to die from it. So, whatever. And plus, I would love to see like pictures of me and you like post getting zap just like smoke come. We can use your smoke machine and like [ __ ] raz the hair. I I cut my I cut my fingers more with like mystery cuts from pinball machines than anything else. Like I'll I'll like finish fixing a game or whatever and like go to the bathroom and I just look like like tiny [ __ ] elves have just like cut my hands up like all over and I'm just like like a death from a thousand cuts on my fingers. I'm like where did I get these? Like how did this happen? That's real. Your hands get weirdly beat up in ways that you're like what the hell I I definitely have had that exact same moment. Uh, so Koozie asks, "At what point in your life did you did you decide that the lesson of don't be afraid to [ __ ] up?" Uh, I think when I decided that things weren't going my way, like playing it the way that everyone wanted me to. Um, like I came from my MFA being like, "What now?" Because I had already been in bands. I actually remember having this moment during my masters like I was talking to my thesis adviser. No, my just a normal adviser. I really [ __ ] with my thesis adviser and did not [ __ ] with my adviser at all. But I was talking to my adviser and I was like, "What if I spend my 30s like wasting it in art the way that I did my 20s with music?" And he was just like, "Uh." I was like, "Okay, so this guy this guy actually doesn't have a plan either." So like these [ __ ] like don't care. They don't know. They're like, "Oh, get an internship, do this, do that. Like be published." And so like for me it was like do I want to be read by the same dozen college professors that are reading each other's stuff and like not speaking to like people. Exactly. No, I didn't want to do that. I would rather like [ __ ] up and like do something weird and whatever. So like I think I realize like I have one life, right? And it's going way quicker than I thought it would and I just like need to get out there and do stuff. So, um, for those who don't know, a thesis is kind of like your final big master like project that you do in order to get your degree. Like I was working I was working on a book. So, I I went to art school, but you know, I had to do a a some grand art thing for it. So, well, my stuff was always, even back then, man, my stuff was always funny and like entertaining and like when we would do readings at places like everyone would be bored until I came up and then they would start laughing. So, I just knew like I had a strength in that stuff that wasn't seen as a strength in like academia or literary writing where they're like it's actually like, oh, you should be more serious. Like I always got that as a note in my like [ __ ] And I was like, life is ridiculous. Like, why be serious? Like that. And that was the thing with pinball, man, is when people are like, why a pinball magazine? It's like why not a pinball magazine? Yeah. What other pinball magazines do you know? What a great Well, not even not even that. I don't care. There could be a million pinball magazines, but just like pinball represents the best of us because it's like there's no reason for it to exist. It's this overly complicated, overexpensive like toy that like adults love to play for whatever reason. I know why I love it, but like that's ridiculous, you know? So, it's culturally so unique. It's just like why, like you said, like this shouldn't exist and it shouldn't even exist on the scale that it is now, you know? But like, why not elevate it? Like, I mean, everything's ridiculous, you know? That's true. I'm [ __ ] burning up in here from these lights, so I got to turn the air on. Uh, I do want to reel it back to Nudge real quick since we are talking about the magazine. Not that this isn't about the magazine because the creative process and and how you became a writer for it, but walk me through like you're like, "Oh, I need to come up with another another I almost called it episode, another issue." You sit down, you have a a blank slate. Where the [ __ ] do you start? Yeah. Um, well, usually we have a couple things that didn't fit in to the last issue. Um, and then I'll try to kind of think of a a theme more for us than like like I'm not ever going to be like this is the whatever issue, you know, but like try to see how stuff will hang together and then I just kind of hit people up. And the good part about Nudge is we're not on any sort of like monthly. it would be way harder and it would be a lot different if it was like I have to come out with an issue next month. I don't have to come out with an issue until it's ready. Um and so I think that's and and you've seen like the last two years Nudge has slowed down from you know we were like regimented about it and um now not having a timeline is that helpful or hurtful? It's helpful. Um because if you I think if you're asking people to do really good work for cheap, right? They always say this, right? It's cheap. That's good. Yeah. So, pick two. So, like for me, fast is the one that I'm like, who cares? Uh but yeah, I think just in terms of the creative side of like having a blank slate and going for it, I always like there's always something out there like uh just people are always doing stuff and it's always interesting. So I'm never worried about I'm never worried. I just wait, you know, and something happens. Cool. Thanks, Cameron. Uh amazing. Well, I mean, we're we're cruising over an hour. Usually, I try to keep these about an hour since uh it's keeping people's attention in the modern age is increasingly difficult, which is one reason why I really love the magazine because you can just like you could pause that [ __ ] all day long and you don't have to worry about just you can experience it at your own speed, you know? Uh when you finish when you finish an issue, do you like appreciate it or are you like this is done and I'm like over it? That's a really good question. Um I'm really proud of it, but I don't look at it for a long time. And sometimes this is like probably TMI, but sometimes I get really depressed like afterwards for like a month or two just I think like cuz the ramp up is so much and you're like in fight or flight almost like especially for the last month before it comes out that then when it does you're just like okay then what? Um but I always I mean I'm really proud of all of them. I I will flip through them still and like now it's kind of fun because it's been long enough for like the first couple at least that it's like I forget what's in each of them and and I get to be kind of like delighted by like the funny illustration or like the weird, you know, ad that is a madeup ad that we just put in there. Um so yeah, I I do it because I love it and I do like I I'm always really proud of what we put out. So yeah. Awesome. Um, I'm going to throw it to chat uh for any last questions. I do want to say like if you are looking for contributors, is there a way that people can get a hold of you? Is that something that you even want? Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um, if you have if you like taking pictures, if you like drawing stuff, if you like writing, um, you can hit me up uh either through our website, which is nudgepinball.com, not nudgazine.com, nudgepinball.com. Uh or you can just email me at uh it's nudgepinball magazine@gmail.com. That whole long thing. So yeah. Um dude, tree farmer Charlie. Yeah, exactly. Get like that when I travel for work. Bust ass for a week, then come back home and feel useless for a while. Yeah, it's just like a it's like a cycle of things, but it's nice to know, right, that you get to I for me when I'm down like that, I love going back to art. Like I love art is very powerful for me. And when I say art, I just mean like comic books, books, movies. Like narrative is very like rejuvenating to me and like brings me back and makes me excited about the world. Like when I when I find new media that I really like, it makes me excited to be like alive. So sure. I don't think, you know, it's hard for non-creative people to understand what it's like to have like a overkill weak dump or whatever of just like constant flow of trying to be creative and putting out whatever your artwork is and then the weird relapse that frequently happens when you finish that process and like I don't know whether it's the lack of dopamine or or the fact that you have to say goodbye to whatever a creative project is as it goes off into the ether like you know obviously with me it's music with you it's writing like I but no matter what you're you're saying goodbye to a you're you're putting a period on the end of of a of a thing and it's finalized and you cannot change it anymore. And that's a weird feeling. It is. But the cool part about Nudge like being a magazine is like it feels less like a period or like a period, but it's like we're writing a whole page of stuff, right? So like that sentence is done, next sentence starts. So, um, like that's what I love about it and like that's why I feel like when you're like the do I have more contributors now? Like yes, definitely. And like per issue, yeah, I guess so. But like it's all one family. Like once you're in Nudge, you're in Nudge, you know? And um, sure. You can't you cannot remove this from life. It exists. Well, yeah. or just like the people that I've met or like the the people who have written for us and stuff like I I mess with all these people and and it's cool to think like sure like they're you know they they might come back they might do something else like we don't really know like uh what does the song say uh the rest is still unwritten right sure well Tyler White is in one of your uh issues as an interviewee and uh Tyler White not only is going to be on the the show again tomorrow but you know I've connected to him through the pinball community, unbeknownsted of Nudge magazine, but it's just it shows like how kind of small the community is in the grand scheme of things, but also how close it is. Like people that love pinball group together cuz we get it, you know? That's one of my favorite articles. It was It's Tyler uh interviewing Elizabeth Weinberg and vice versa. And it's like, dude, what an amazing perfect example. I use her all the time because I'm like, dude, I don't even know what Elizabeth Weinberg's quote is for photography. So she shoots for like the LA Times, Vogue, New York Times, New York Times, everything like amazing amazing uh portrait uh photographer like shot us for basically free because she really likes pinball, you know, like and so that article like Tyler shooting her and and Elizabeth shooting Tyler and interviewing each other is just like man, what a cool I don't know like that. Yeah, exactly. That's like the kind of stuff with Nudge that I'm really proud of and I had like nothing to do with it. Yeah, it's the kind of collaboration you just you don't see that in a lot of other uh hobbies. I feel like the the drive to collaborate without any kind of like monetary return seems to be pretty strong in the in the pinball community. Not that there aren't other hobbies that are like that, but uh you know, pinball people love to do [ __ ] for free. Yeah, for sure. Okay. Wait, pinball table or pinball machine? I did used to get a lot of crap early on because I would sometimes say pinball table. I honestly don't I I don't think it matters. But there are pinball tables. There's the cocktail machines. Those are actual pinball tables. Yeah, but like are is that how you're making that? You're making that delineation. Is that how you're making I'm just saying that if you really wanted to call a pinball machine a table that you could get one that acts as a table. Shut shut. Uh, hey, I'm not the one who's referred to a pinball machine incorrectly for any period of time. No. Well, yeah. Well, you know, I I don't care. Uh, it is kind of a table. I mean, it's a terrible table. All your drinks will spill and like if you have marbles on them, they'll all go Oh, man. Cleaning Cleaning drinks. Who is I was talking with somebody marbles. I love storing marbles on a normal normal table though. That's a good place to put marbles for sure. Uh Jean uh one of the local distributors from Los Angeles was talking about he has got a games on location and people spill [ __ ] drinks and stuff all the time and I guess it gets so sticky that he has to like pry the [ __ ] lock bar off of it because it it has become adhesed to the just man just like the pinball owner in me just like cringes at that concept of just doussing your game in beer and soda. That's the thing, man, is like that's why we can't put any rules. Like when you were like they're responsible, like I Dude, I agree with you that we they should do that. Like it's awesome. I I would highly recommend uh operators put older games out there, but I just realized the BS that they got to deal with on like a daily basis from guys like me who are like Jurassic Park Gate isn't working and it's ruining, you know, like that kind of stuff. or like people pouring drinks on their things that I'm just like happy that are people willing to accept the risk and uh you know so I can play pinball for a dollar and not spend because pinball should be for everybody. The arcade shouldn't have old games in them just for pinball collectors that want to come in and appreciate him. It should be for literally people who've never seen a pinball machine before and want to walk up to it and throw a few quarters in a Grand Lizard or whatever, you know. Well, yeah. I mean, I think that pinball should be available. Like yeah, I think pinball can be enjoyed by everybody and should be like if they want to enjoy it, they should have access to be able to enjoy it. And that's why arcades are so cool. That's why like Nudge has always been a location magazine because I like the sort of egalitarian method every because it's still capitalism. It's like you still have the guy making some money and he's assuming the risk by buying all or woman or whoever like uh non-gendered person like they're the idiot assuming all the risk. I'm the one coming in with just my like, you know, pocket full of quarters and whatever. Like I'm I'm happy with that. And I and I just think like that to me is ultimately it's so cool to have them in your house. I love that you dude, you've done a great job like of games are in your house, but you're using them to really proitize to other people to like spread the good word of pinball. And that's awesome. The Great Pyramid requires it. I preach this. It's not It's not because of me, man. It's just Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's through you. Um, exactly. That's I grew up Lutheran, so that speaks to me. Uh, very, um, Calvinist theory there. But, uh, yeah, I I know the Wedge Head guys say this, too, is like don't have your pinball machines at home. Like, bring them out. Like, put them on location, share them with the world. So, you'll make a little money. You'll be probably stressed out when you find Diet Coke all over them. But, you know, or when you keep getting calls that your game's broken, you need to go and fix it and it's 30 minutes away or whatever. Uh, you are you an operator? I am not. I would not do that. I I am a person who I like to invite strangers to my home apparently that I've never met before just because other pinball people in the community say they're cool people. And so far, everyone's been super cool. And uh I think that if you have a large collection of games at home, like I I actually Tyler White and I we have a clip of this on our Instagram. Shout out to myself to go look at my own social media [ __ ] or whatever. uh where I'm talking about how if you don't if you have a bunch of games and you don't invite people over to play them that you're a bad pinball person. And I stand by that. Like what do you why do you own them then? If you own more than one game and you're not having friends over, like what the [ __ ] This is such a LA stream, man. Because you you love uh you you're like you're a bad person. That's like very like uh But see, we don't do that out here cuz it's like sometimes the bad people are the most ones to have fun with. Some of the bad people are what? are the must have fun with. You know, you like you want you have fun with those with those bad boys. So, you know, I I never but there's there's plenty of bad boys in the pinball community. Like, let's talk, you know, Canada and Cardi Hardy, Carrie Hardy a little bit. Like, you know, there's plenty of people that are uh whether it's them as an individual or whether it's their like persona for their channel, you know, they they approach it with a certain angle. But, uh I don't know, man. And I think there's enough toxic [ __ ] in the world that I I prefer to keep it, you know, I'm a potty mouth, but pinball should be pure. Whether that's whether that to you means it's intense and and mildly aggressive, fine. But like, let it let it not be toxic. Yeah. No, I Okay. Yes. I don't want it. No, I'm for toxic pinball. You've heard it here. Ian just said to the great pyramid above that he wants only toxic pinball. I'm not even saying that at all. I'm looking for that January 6th pinball theme uh to come to come out next. I just I remember like 20 years ago or 30 years ago like Well, not even now. Let's say in the pandemic, there was a lot of gatekeeping in pinball. At least in pinball ownership, like if you said you found a game on Craigslist, like people would be cutthroat like, "Oh, don't buy that. It's mine." And it's like, "What are you talking about?" Like the people get obsessive over uh machines and it is important to remember that they're just a thing. And uh I think that's hard for pinball people. It's been it's hard for me. I'd had parted with certain games and have been driving out to take a look at games on Craigslist and been like, "Holy [ __ ] I hope it's still there cuz it's mine." Like, "No, it's not, right?" For sure. I just love that it's just two white guys uh talking about this once again. It's always It's always us uh like bringing it up. But yeah, for sure. I I agree with you. I I think um you know that that is why arcades are good, dude. Speaking of like go to Star Tropics like that is like a place in Portland where they have like created a space truly for everybody like and and I saw it I I actually told Jason while I was there I'm like man you are like uh sort of a de facto dad to like or at least a babysitter to like a lot of the people who are coming in here and that's amazing and like sort of using pinball as like the way into their lives to then um do it. But yeah, I I mean I agree with you. Although it is it is it is fun to it is like I said, it's fun to have a Canadian. Did you read what this psychopath just wrote? Tree farmer says, "I bought mine through a news group and paid for it by mailing a check." What? What? I love that. That's insane. Farmer Charlie, let's party, dog. Um All right. Mailing a check is wild work. Like that's just like wow. Yeah. No, they ran off with your money 3 months ago and there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah, you can't charge back that. Uh, Divisible says, "Pinball is something where you can connect kinetically." Haha. Real funny, dude. Something where you can have an external agency in the world. Alone is great. With others, it's amazing. It's true. It's very unique. You You either do it and you get it or you don't do it and then you're going to get it at some point when you do do it. I don't know. I just wanted to say do. Uh, all right. I would chat, while I'm doing the outro, if there's anything else you want to ask Ian, please do. I want to say again, thank you so much for taking the time. You know, you really are a person who has allowed me to help grow the channel and become a part of the pinball community from nothing to still nothing, but at least now I'm talking to people like you, which is amazing. Uh, is there anything you want to shout out about? Is there anybody you want to shout out or is there anything going on with Nudge other than episode five or I'm just going to keep calling it episode uh coming out soon? Um, no. I mean, that's the biggie. I guess I would say if you are interested at all, go to nudgepimble.com. You can get all our back issues. They're available now. They will ship like same day, I'm pretty sure, as as when you order them. Um, I really appreciate everyone being nice in chat. Hey, thanks so much for having me. Um, yeah, keep keep playing pinball, man. Don't uh don't don't burn yourself out. We need we need some folks like you in the hobby. So, I really I really appreciate it. Amazing. I already asked what your three games that you would keep are. So, I think at this time I'm going to end the stream by just playing this cool song again for people that didn't hear it. Uh so, uh let's rock out to my jam. Oh [ __ ] All right, episode 4, a wrap. Thank you again. Uh, go buy Nudge or don't, but at least go look at it. Go follow on Instagram at Nudge Magazine. Um, yeah. Thanks so much to everybody for hanging out, watching with us. Uh, let's, as we do always, when we finish a stream, we go and we raid somebody with almost no viewership or no viewership if that's possible just to make their day because having a bunch of people drop on your social media is probably one of the best feelings in the world. Uh, so we're going to go do that. We're going to go try to find it. Goodbye. Thanks.

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: f1b901a7-7184-4c0a-a1fc-74bdf3570f63*