# Episode 261: Now and Zen **Source:** Pinball Profile **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2020-06-03 **Duration:** 35m 56s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.pinballprofile.com/episode-261-now-and-zen/ --- ## Analysis Pinball Profile episode featuring competitive player Nick Zendayos discussing his tournament experiences, favorite games across eras (Surfer, Sinbad, Iron Maiden, AC/DC), his life in China, and his recent COVID-19 infection. The conversation spans tournament culture, game strategy, and personal reflections on the pinball community during the pandemic era (recorded May 15, 2020). ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Nick Zendayos won the Heads Up Championship in March (2020), winning on Munsters against Kaylee George who picked Raven — _Direct statement from Nick about his tournament win; Jeff confirms awareness of the victory_ - [HIGH] Nick flew straight from China to Pittsburgh for a Papa tournament to compete for longest-flight record — _Nick's direct statement; Jeff's confirmation and light-hearted follow-up about Australian competitors_ - [HIGH] Nick has been playing competitively on IFPA for 14 years — _Jeff's statement: 'you've been playing for 14 years competitively on IFPA'_ - [HIGH] Story Hill Pinball Campout is advertised as the highest pinball tournament in the world, at approximately 9,600-10,000 feet elevation — _Nick's direct statement about tournament location and elevation claim_ - [HIGH] Nick won Pin Mania tournament at JR's house, which features approximately 20+ machines in a barn plus vintage Valley machines downstairs — _Nick confirms winning Pin Mania and describes the venue layout_ - [HIGH] Both Nick and Jeff contracted COVID-19 during the pandemic — _Jeff's statement at episode end: 'you and your wife both contracted COVID-19'_ - [HIGH] Papa tournament is returning in 2021 but at a different building than previously — _Nick's statement: 'I'm not sure what it's going to return like because it's not the same building on it'_ - [HIGH] Jeff recently completed AC/DC wizard mode (Encore) during COVID lockdown after years of attempts — _Jeff's detailed account of finally reaching Encore mode on AC/DC after being stuck at 8-9 songs_ ### Notable Quotes > "I just flew here straight from China. I have to have the record. And instead of him going, yeah, nice job, he goes, oh, sorry, two Australians came this year. What record are you talking about?" > — **Nick Zendayos**, early in episode > _Demonstrates Nick's dedication to Papa tournament and humorous competitive spirit_ > "So I was like, just look at your own screen. Whatever happens over there, I can't worry about." > — **Nick Zendayos**, mid-episode > _Advice on Heads Up Championship strategy—focus on your own game, not opponent's_ > "I never thought of it like the smaller order, but definitely now, you know, New York is a whole different place." > — **Nick Zendayos**, mid-episode > _Reflects on Colorado pinball community versus larger cities_ > "the thing that makes pinball fun is always having more options, you know when the ball is trapped on a flipper, you know, where should I shoot" > — **Nick Zendayos**, mid-episode > _Core philosophy on what makes games engaging—strategic decision-making_ > "Learning to play tournament pinball is actually, it's a trainable, practicable thing, like a skill that you can do, not just like flipper skills, but you have to learn to play in a tournament." > — **Nick Zendayos (quoting Jorian Engelbrecht)**, mid-episode > _Key insight distinguishing casual play from competitive tournament play_ > "Simpsons is kind of what kind of elevated my play from a level where I was kind of stuck maybe like B and then I think into A." > — **Nick Zendayos**, late episode > _Describes how mastering complex games like Simpsons improves overall skill level_ > "The Simpsons will never leave my house." > — **Jeff Teolis**, late episode > _Shows deep attachment to particular games in personal collections_ > "I basically said to Carson, my son, I'm going to shoot three shots, the two ramps and the bell. That's it. Those are my safety shots." > — **Jeff Teolis**, late episode > _Strategy for AC/DC—using multiball for shot sequences rather than raw flipper play_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Nick Zendayos | person | Competitive pinball player, Heads Up Championship winner (March 2020), lives in New York, originally from Colorado, lived in China as translator | | Jeff Teolis | person | Host of Pinball Profile podcast; competitive pinball player; father; located near Canadian border | | Escher Lefkoff | person | Long-running Papa 20 champion; competitive pinball player from Colorado scene | | Kaylee George | person | Competitive pinball player; faced Nick in Heads Up Championship final | | Pinball Profile | organization | Long-running interview podcast series hosted by Jeff Teolis covering pinball community | | Story Hill Pinball Campout | event | Annual tournament in Colorado mountains; highest elevation pinball tournament (9,600+ feet); camping-based with 30-40 machines | | Pin Mania | event | Tournament held at JR's house with barn featuring 20+ machines and vintage Valley arcade machines | | Pinvasion | event | Brian Broyle's tournament in Atlanta; ran approximately 2 years; held at ramada-style venue | | Papa | event | Major annual pinball tournament returning in 2021 at different venue; moving from traditional location | | Stern Pro Circuit | event | Professional pinball tournament series; Heads Up Championship was postponed during COVID period | | Louisville Arcade Expo | event | Pinball tournament/expo with hotel rooms in same building; referenced for late-night gaming experiences | | Chicago Expo | event | Major pinball exposition event; referenced in context of competitive pinball advice | | Iron Maiden | game | Modern pinball game; Nick won as Heads Up Championship prize; one of his favorite modern games; 900 million combo possible | | AC/DC | game | Modern pinball game with jukebox mechanic; 12-song wizard mode 'Encore'; Jeff recently completed Encore mode | | The Simpsons | game | Complex modern pinball with deep rule set; both Nick and Jeff love it; marked Nick's skill progression to level A play | | Surfer/Surf Champ | game | EM-era pinball; Nick's starting game; features three strategy options (upper lanes, spinner, scoop/targets) | | Sinbad | game | Solid State pinball; brutal game with five red targets; features four flippers; Nick's favorite from SS era | | Munsters | game | Pinball game; featured in Heads Up Championship where Nick won; involves four characters and Raven multiball | | Raven | game | Pinball game; Kaylee George's selection in Heads Up Championship final; requires character setup and left ramp shots | | Carl D'Angelo | person | IE Pinball streamer; streams gameplay of complex modern games; known for demonstrating high-level play and combos | | Adam Higgins | person | Colorado pinball player; friend who introduced Nick to University of Colorado pinball arcade | | Donovan Stepp | person | Colorado pinball legend; mentor to Nick; featured in COVID documentary with Jeff Rank | | Dean Grover | person | High-level Colorado pinball player; mentioned as example of expert Simpsons play ($20-30 million scores) | | One-Up Arcade Denver | organization | Denver pinball arcade that opened circa 2009-2010; helped grow Colorado pinball scene | ### Topics - **Primary:** Competitive tournament pinball culture, Game strategy and skill development, Modern pinball games (AC/DC, Iron Maiden, Simpsons), COVID-19 pandemic impact on pinball community - **Secondary:** Regional pinball communities (Colorado, Pittsburgh, New York), Personal travel and life experience, EM and solid state pinball appreciation, Pinball tournament venue and format design ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.78) — Generally warm, friendly conversation celebrating pinball community and competitive play. Positive nostalgia about tournaments and games. Darkened slightly by disclaimer about George Floyd and Steve Epstein's cancer battle at episode start, and acknowledgment of COVID-19 infections at end. Overall tone remains hopeful and engaged. ### Signals - **[event_signal]** Story Hill Pinball Campout running annually as highest-elevation tournament with family-friendly, relaxed atmosphere (confidence: high) — Nick describes 9,600+ feet elevation, 30-40 machines, cabins/camping, weekend-long format with families and dogs welcome - **[community_signal]** COVID-19 reaching pinball community members; Nick and his wife both contracted virus; disclaimer noting Steve Epstein battling cancer (confidence: high) — Episode disclaimer references 'Steve Epstein...cancer battle'; final segment acknowledges Nick and wife contracted COVID-19 - **[sentiment_shift]** Strong appreciation for tournament venues with hotels directly connected to playing areas; players value minimal travel friction (confidence: medium) — Both Nick and Jeff express preference for all-in-one venue tournaments like Louisville Arcade Expo; describe late-night playing as 'the best' - **[community_signal]** Colorado pinball scene remains vibrant with strong local talent and continued growth in brewery/bar machine availability (confidence: high) — Nick describes progression from single Lions location (45-min drive weekly) to multiple arcades and 'almost every brewery' having machines - **[competitive_signal]** Modern game mastery (Simpsons) correlates with skill progression from intermediate to advanced tournament-level play (confidence: medium) — Nick describes learning Simpsons shots from watching expert players ($20-30M scores) helped elevate his play from level B to A - **[community_signal]** Competitive pinball player Nick Zendayos transitioned from Colorado scene to New York City during his career (confidence: high) — Nick describes living in Colorado, moving to China, returning to Colorado, then relocating to New York - **[competitive_signal]** Home isolation during COVID-19 enabling deeper game mastery and wizard mode completions due to extended practice time (confidence: medium) — Jeff finally completed AC/DC Encore after years of attempts during lockdown; observation that home players will improve significantly - **[competitive_signal]** Papa tournament returning in 2021 but relocating to different venue from previous years (confidence: high) — Nick states: 'I'm not sure what it's going to return like because it's not the same building on it' --- ## Transcript The following was recorded on May 15th, 2020. A lot in the world has happened since that time. The horrible killing of George Floyd, the worldwide protests that have erupted since then, and the sad news of one of the pinball community's most loved and cherished men for all that he's given back to this hobby, the cancer battle that Steve Epstein is going through. None of that happened. When this was recorded, none of these things were known at the time. But I can't release this program without this disclaimer and my sincere hope, prayer, and plea for everyone to stay safe. Thank you for listening. It's time now for another Pinball Profile. I'm your host, Jeff Teels. Find everything on pinballprofile.com, including your new RSS feed, all past shows, a great history of the people that have come on this show. You can find us on Twitter and on Instagram at pinballprofile. Email us, pinballprofile at gmail.com, and check us out on Facebook. Pleasure to be talking to a friend of mine, one of the best pinball players I've ever come across. Nick Zendayos joins us. Hey, Nick, how are you? Doing good. How about you, Jeff? I'm good. Things are, I hope, going well for you in New York City. Obviously, we've got some scary situations there in the past couple of months, and we'll probably get to that a little bit later. But let's talk about pinball because... That's why we're here. That's it. That's it. with the Stern Pro Circuit and the Heads Up Champion being postponed, you are like the Escher Lefkoff of the Heads Up Championship. You get to keep the title for an extended period, just like he did for Papa 20. I feel it's like karma almost, because, you know, that's what I would always call him and say to him when I saw him. I'd be like, hey, what's up, longest-running Papa champ? I would never call him Escher after that. He always gets a smile on his face. That's such a fun tournament, too. You know, I didn't know if I was going to be interested in that until I finally played in that, and I was like, this is amazing. I wish there were more of them. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's what I cut my teeth on and all the major pros that have been around, you know, I think. It was, yeah, that's by far my favorite tournament. I would always make that. I even told Kevin Martin once, like I ran in and I was like, I just flew here straight from China. I have to have the record. And instead of him going, yeah, nice job, he goes, oh, sorry, two Australians came this year. What record are you talking about? the longest flight? Yeah, the longest flight to get to Papa. Because I flew straight from China straight to Pittsburgh, wouldn't you? Sorry, I left that part. You flew straight from China to go to Pittsburgh just to be at Papa? Yes. And those Aussies beat you. Oh, I thought I had it for sure. I'm like, this 20-hour flight is going to be worth it. Oh, well. But again, back to that heads-up championship. It's neat with the different tasks you have to do with two identical machines. Obviously, no two machines are completely alike, but it's pretty even, I would say. And it's intense, you know. Are you watching your own game to see how you're doing? Are you seeing how the person beside you is going to do? Tell us about that big win you had last March, the Heads Up Championship. Sure. You brought up a lot of good points. So that was one of the things I had to force myself to not look at the other player, because if you're looking over the other screen, that's, you know, however many seconds or whatever it is that you're not paying attention to your game and what the ball's doing. So I saw a lot of people mess up that way. I'm like, just look at your own screen. Whatever happens over there, I can't worry about. So that was one. And then just having fun, learning the strat as I go. I ended up winning on Munsters, and Kaylee picked Raven. And I just learned it earlier in the day because they had all those free play games on the side. And so we were just playing Munsters and all that stuff, and I figured it out. And then when it came time to do it, I did it immediately almost. So you had to hit the ramp three times in Munsters to be the first to do that? No, the Munsters was Raven. So that's when you have to have, what is it, four of the characters running. And then you have to get Kitty, I think, twice or three times. Maybe twice, yeah. And then that's the last time I played it. You and I are both kind of puzzled. People listening who know Munsters are like, you're an idiot. It's not that I don't remember. I just remember Raven multiball starts when you go up the left ramp a few times. but I can't remember if you need other characters first, but wow. Yeah, you have to have the four characters, and then it turns the left ramp on for Raven. But that was the neat thing to an idiot like me in the Heads Up Championship. Not that I did well on it, but they told you, here's what you have to do, and what I loved is, here's how you have to do it. So it's not really about rules knowledge. Yeah, it's not a secret, yeah. I don't like those secret things. It's the one thing about modern games that drive me absolutely effing nuts. Well, that's the fun of learning, right? You've got to figure out what does what. But, yeah, you're right. At a tournament, it's nice that everyone's on equal terms there, and you just see what to do and go do it. Even though you know sometimes it's not so obvious, just reading it and actually doing it is two different things, too. Executing. And you took your win. You won a free machine. You had that nice stern key and turned it into an Iron Maiden game. Indeed, yes. I'm very glad, too. I feel bad for the people. condolences that are pinball-less during this unfortunate situation, but I have my main to keep me company. That's a good one to keep you company, for sure. Practicing my six-way combos. I think I saw one of your high scores, actually. You put down Zenfuscious for 56 combos. Now, you talked a little bit about it being in China. As a kid, you decided to move there, learn Mandarin and become a translator? Yeah, yeah. That was a fun time of life, for sure. You know, living abroad, seeing new stuff was really cool. I've never been to China. You met your wife in China. Beijing was very good to you. Yeah, oh yeah, a lot of fun. You know, I remember when I first got there, it was just like a completely, like, exact opposite, you know, different place. Like, everything was so different. It was incredible. But you learn a lot, you know. The people are friendly, good food. And, you know, it's huge. As big as America. Bigger. Yeah, just so much to do and see and learn. It's just nonstop learning, basically. It was a great time. You did that when you were 20. Carson's going to be 20 in a couple years. And I've told him, if you have the chance to travel, do it, especially when you're young, because it's harder to do when you're older. And it's just such a great life experience. But he, like a lot of people, and probably me when I was that age, was like, oh, I like the comforts and the safety of home and things I know and where things are and how to do things, and this is asked of me. I think I was scared to do that. I mean, how did you have the courage to do that at such a young age? Well, it's interesting to hear that perspective. I never thought of it as just courage. But although I do remember all my family telling me I was crazy, and they're like, you're going to do what? You're going to move to China. That's crazy. Luckily, my mom was supportive. But, yeah, I just, like I said, I had a thirst to learn stuff, and I wanted to see a different place in the world besides, you know, America. I figured I'd been here enough, had a good time, trying to see another perspective. So I just jumped on a plane and went over. Well, I, like everyone else, hoping the borders will open up soon when everything becomes safe. But, you know, it is something that baffles me when I live close to the border. I'm within an hour of the border. I've pretty much been my whole entire life. And when I hear people in Canada that have never made it across to the States or vice versa, it just blows my mind. It's right there. It's a different country. It's a chance to see different people. We are right now confined within the four walls of this COVID-19 virus and self-isolation. But I said to my wife today, if COVID goes away, there's a vaccine and money's not an issue, what's the one thing you want to do when this is all over? Where do you want to go? We've been in the house for eight weeks now. We still luckily love each other. But what would you like to do? And for me, it's travel. You? Yeah, well, I mean, probably go home first. But yeah, that's traveling. So combining both. Go home to Colorado. Correct, correct. Yeah, see my mom and friends and everybody. So traveling and going home. It's two birds, one stone. Yeah, for sure. So you were in Colorado, went to China, went to Colorado, a few places in between, wound up in New York. And you said you got the pinball bug kind of 2006. What was it for you that made you, first of all, such a great pinball player, but fall in love with this fun hobby? Well, you said great pinball player. I don't consider myself so exceptional. I'm decent. I can keep the ball rolling, but I appreciate that. Wait a second. Wait a second. Everybody listening, there are thousands of people listening to this podcast right now. Everybody put up your hand if you've won a pinball machine at a pinball tournament. Less than five. Go on, you so-so player. Yeah, basically I saw a flyer on the college court board at a local college at the University of Colorado, and it said, pinball arcade with 30 pinball machines. Bring this in for however many quarters free plays And I was like oh this is baloney There no pinball arcades This doesn exist And I finally came up to my buddy Adam Higgins who drove up there and he called me He like there really an arcade with 30 pinball machines in here You've got to check this out. We went and saw it, and I met cool people like Donovan Stepp and, you know, the Leftoffs and Kevin Carroll and Carol Quirrell, of course. And they were all incredible, super welcome, and made it really fun. And, you know, they say, hey, there's a tournament. I'm like, there's tournaments? And I went to a tournament. They're like, there's a league. I'm like, there's a league? I guess I'll try that. And then they're like, oh, let's go to this crazy biggest pinball tournament in the world every year, Papa. And then, you know, you go step by step from there. You know, it was like tournament league, Papa, and then you just get the bug from there. Cool people, pinball's super fun. Just gets addicting. Was that arcade one-up Colfax? The one-up, yeah, that started a little later. Like, I think that was 2010, maybe, 2009. Might be a little. I've been to a few of the arcades in Denver. I was really impressed. I mean, I can see how the bug really took over in that city, that state. You mentioned Donovan and the Lefkoffs and the Higgins. The Carrolls, for sure. For sure. And pinball is just so huge in Colorado. But it's funny that it's in a pocket like that or in Pittsburgh or other small places when you think, oh, it should be in Chicago or it should be in New York City or L.A., the big cities. But I guess there are just other options to do in those bigger cities. and maybe that's why pinball gravitates to some of these smaller, Denver's not a small city by any means, nor is Pittsburgh, but some of these smaller compared to big metropolises. Yeah, yeah, it's nice. I mean, like I said, being from there, I never thought of it like the smaller order, but definitely now, you know, New York is a whole different place. But, yeah, I remember when the only place in Colorado was just Lions, and we'd drive like 45 minutes each week, sometimes twice, just to go play pinball. So it was incredible. Then later came the one-ups and different bars and this and that, and now it's packed. I still can't believe every time we go back, almost every brewery or every other brewery, which there are hundreds of, has a pinball machine or more. So I'm always impressed by that. Let's hope we get back to that, and I'm sure we will. But you mentioned about playing in Colorado. You've been playing for 14 years competitively on IFPA. Wow, really? There are people listening right now that have never been to competitions. competitions. Well, I've been to a lot of competitions, but I look at some of the ones that you've been, and I've always wondered what they were like. So I'm going to run a few of these down with you right now, and you can tell me about... First of all, if we're talking Colorado, tell me about the amazing thing that Trent Augenstein says is the best tournament, Dory Hill. Yeah. Dory Hill Pinball Campout advertises the highest pinball tournament in the world. And they always accompanies the hype. I think it was like 9,600 something, something. I don't have it memorized, but you know, almost 10,000 feet. So yeah, you're right, you're up in the mountains. It's at a campsite. There are cabins, you know, there's, you can also just tent it or, you know, really go in the wild. But there's a, the cabins have electricity and everyone brings, it started as a little local thing and now it's packed. People bring pinball machines. There was like 30 something, maybe 40 pins last time I was there. And yet you're still outdoors and everybody's just camping, drilling, cooking, you know, having some beverages, and just having fun together. It's a weekend long, and it's just super. It's really fun. It's just that's the main thing. It's probably, as a tournament, you know, there's better probably tournaments, like, you know, the big ones and stuff. But the whole package, it's just fun, and people are really having a good time, and it's a very relaxed, jovial environment. Having a good time, having a few beverages. Come on, Zen. We know what state you're in. We're in Colorado. There's other things going on, but we'll leave that right there. But, you know, it's funny because that's a tournament I think I could get my wife to go to because she loves, loves, loves camping. So that aspect of it, I think, you know what? I'm going to circle that one on the calendar in the next few years and get out there and bring my wife. I bet we have a blast. Yeah, definitely. I mean, people bring their whole families every year. When we lived out there, I'd take my family out there. There's the McCartys and various people. They bring their dogs. They bring their family. They bring their whatever. All are welcome. So that's Story Hill. Tell me about Pin Mania, Another great tournament that I've got to get to one of these days. Well, I only went to Pin Mania once, and I'm a little biased. I want to say I probably had more fun than everybody else there. But, yeah, it's just super cool. It's in JR's house, and he has a little barn on the side with a good 20-something machines. And then downstairs is loaded with all these sweet old valleys. I think he has a whole row of, it just goes from, you know, from Electra, Flash Gordon, and then he had one of my favorites, which was Hot Doggin'. Great game. Great game. Yeah, I don't want to say that's what gave me the victory, but it definitely helped. Because I was just money on those targets on the left. That was a lot of fun making that shot over and over. So you win it, but you've only been once. What's going on? Well, you know, I had to at least keep even with, you know, Josh. He was the previous winner. Wow. So it's definitely not a major. Okay. But, no, yeah, that was super fun. I remember the final round. It was myself, Joe LeVere, Steven Bowden, and a local gentleman. And I remember the games. It was Avatar, and I won on Flash Gordon. Avatar, Diner, and then Flash Gordon. Nice. Tell me about Pinvasion. Pinvasion in Atlanta. That's Brian Broyle's tournament. Brian, who looks after Portal Arcade? Yeah, that one is real. I was really sad to see that one go away because I think it went two years maybe in a row. But it's super cool. It's in that nice big, what is it, a ramada or whatever? It's huge, like, you know, the big, like, super plot, like a really big size, you know. But it's my favorite because my favorite thing is when the hotel is in the same, the rooms are in the same building as the tournament. Oh, I totally agree. Right. Right, and I think you and I had one of those late-night experiences at the Louisville Arcade Expo, like at 5 in the morning or something. There's a lot of those, yeah, yeah. I remember that one. Those are the best. People don't understand, you know, oh, I'm not into competition pinball. Really? How would you like to have fun? First of all, do you like pinball? Yes. It's a chance to play pinball over a bunch of days. There's shows, there's people, and then there's the other things, too. We just did a show on Final Round on the Pinball Network, Marty and I, where we did the show completely hammered because that was kind of our way of saying, you know what, we missed a couple of Stern Pro circuits in May, and this is what happened. So we had a little pinball competition. There was drinking involved. It was fun, and we were all fine and safe and at home. You talk about these hotels being connected to pinball tournaments. Those are the best. Yeah, any tournament you don't have to drive anywhere to get to is my favorite kind of tournament. The less travel required to get to a tournament is the better. Speaking of great, incredible tournaments, you have to be excited. I'm excited to hear that in 2021, Papa is going to be returning. Oh, yeah, that was really good news. I'm not sure what it's going to return like because it's not the same building on it, but I'm hopeful, and I know the Pittsburgh guys are awesome, so they can get it done. If anyone can make Pinberg happen from year to year, then they probably could do anything. That's already incredible. Fingers crossed. 2021 is going to be a spectacular year. I saw you recently do a little COVID documentary with Jeff Rank in Colorado, and he kind of Zoomed or Skyped his buddies and talked pinball. It was great to see you on there with others. Donovan Stepp, I think. I think Fred Richardson was on there. What I learned about you was your favorite games in different eras. So let's go over those right now. What's the big thing for you about Surf Champ? Yeah, I've talked to many people about this. I'm sure they know. Surfer is the one I started on which is the, you know, Surfer and Surf Champ are the two and four player versions but, you know, I think the thing that makes pinball fun is always having more options, you know when the ball is trapped on a flipper, you know, where should I shoot and it's usually on EM, it's just random or, you know, you're just keeping the ball live or into these ridiculous targets or stand-ups and so on with Surfer, you have three options, you can play three strats, you can go for the upper lanes particularly the lit one, because you get the lane gives you a 1,000 bonus, but if it's a lit one, it gives you 2,000. Some people play for the spinner. That's not my favorite shot. I don't usually use that one. But some people just like the spinner and just keep shooting it and hope the ball bounces favorably around. Another one you can do is play for the scoop and the targets. So I think Surfer is great for an EM because there's so much variety and options to do when the ball is on either flipper I think you sold me on it I think that sounds you know I never really put those kind of perspectives into it There a lot of great EMs for me I just it fixing them is the one area I like uh That is a tough work. But yeah, there's a lot of strats on Surfer. If you ever want to, you know, want me to point something out to you, let me, I'll show you there what's going on. Done and done. You know I'm going to. Another game you mentioned was your Solid State, and it's pretty EM-like, and it's a game I love too. and I don't hear many people talk about it, but I was glad to hear you say you loved Sinbad. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just talking about this with, you know, Levy and Paul and Greg and those guys the other day. I love it because it's brutal. Yeah, I was going to say, there's a fine line you walk on that between just nasty, brutal drains and then, like, actually getting a semblance of control when you think you're getting it. But, you know, it's real satisfying to go from getting the one target to the two to the three, four, and if you get that lucky, you get to the five red ones up on the top. But, yeah, it's a great four flippers, and it gets real scary, you know. A lot of double flipping I see people do. Even myself, I've done it once in a while. But, yeah, that's a good one. Now there's a game that tries to lure you into, hey, look at this beautiful spinner right here. Forget the spinner. Oh, yeah, never shoot that spinner. Only at a bailout shot, maybe. And then you kind of were back and forth between your favorite modern game. One you have, and we talked about how great Iron Maiden is, but the other game that you love, I love too, ACDC. Zen, I got to tell you, here's what COVID-19 did, and the stay-at-home orders. I've been playing the hell out of that to finally, finally, just last week, get to Encore. Oh, you did it. Finally. Wow. Tell me what it's like. I had extra balls on. You had to get the combos. I think it's all factories. No, three ball. Three ball, but I did earn two extra balls. And I'm trying to think how I did it. One was the combos, and one I think was just, I have a pro version, so I think hitting either back and black, TNT, or rock several times, I think that gave me an extra ball. So there were two extra balls. Actually, I think there were six, because I think one of the things and stuff was an extra ball, if I recall. So do not listen if you don't want to know. Don't listen, because I didn't want to know either. No, I've seen it by now. I haven't done it myself yet, but one of these days. So my son is with me, which is pretty cool, pretty proud papa moment right there for me. And he's seen me try to go after this and just be stuck at eight, nine songs, eight, nine songs. I'm like, oh, God. So ACDC, I started at the bottom right-hand corner of the jukebox, Let There Be Rock, because I wanted You Shook Me All Night Long to be the last one, because by the time you get to the 12th song, that's a lot of pop bumpers to like that song. I'm like, forget that. I'll never be able to do it. Here I am, years, been going, okay, I've got to get my war machine shot in ACDC, so I better go left orbit. I've got to get my let there be rock. I better go right orbit. I've got to get hell's bells. All these different shots I'm trying to hit when, really, I should just be starting a damn multiball and then doing it during multiball. Definitely. So that's kind of what I did. A little boring. I basically said to Carson, my son, I'm going to shoot three shots, the two ramps and the bell. That's it. Those are my safety shots. maybe the left orbit but it comes around the right so quickly and i don't know about that it's finally a get to it so i've completed the 12th song i'm like this is great and i'm looking to select my song because you got to go back into things and stuff and i don't see encore i'm like what the hell so i had to start you shook me all night long again oh man only because i'm an idiot and didn't press to the right flipper one more time to get to encore oh you didn't scroll through the whole options? I didn't scroll through. Oh, man. So I had to do another one. And then, luckily, thankfully, I got back up. I thought, okay, this is stupid. Oh, there it is. I needed to scroll through. Got it. Finally. That gives you a little more credit then for doing one thing extra. More difficult to get to it. No, it means I'm stupid. But anyway, so I get to it. And then basically, again, give yourself about three minutes if you don't want to hear this. Fast forward. You have to do all the songs again, kind of, in the order in which you completed them. Okay. Because I started with Let There Be Rock, I had to hit the four rock targets on the right, and then go to the next song. And you get three balls to do it. So you're not in multiball ever. Okay, yeah. But you get three balls, three chances to do it, and then you get a huge jackpot if you do it. I didn't complete that, so I didn't complete it. All right, so you've got something to shoot for now. It's so freaking exciting. I was like, okay, you know what? I'm getting a little bummed out by not being able to do it. But when you get close, you're like, okay. And now that you've had that little look at it, you've got to get back there. So I was thinking of Carl D'Python Anghelo and what he's doing on IE Pinball and the madness of Big Buck Hunter and Pirates and all these games he's doing. I get it now. It's incredible to watch. I love watching those little time ones. I really like watching the Maiden one, of course, you know, the 900 million combo. Yeah, Carl hitting that 900 million, for God's sakes, so cool. That's amazing. Yeah, definitely. I finally got the six-way combos down. I just got to add the 3X summary. What's the order of the combos in the six-way combo? For those that don't know, of course I know. I'm just asking for other people. I'm asking for a friend because I have, of course. Well, I mean, you can technically do it any order. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. You just can't repeat a shot. But I do it the way that Carl showed on his stream, which is you start with the upper mini left flipper, the upper mini left flipper, hit it on that loop. You let it come down, drop catch, or you can bounce pass, depending on which one you go for. I drop catch it, send it back up the spinner, then around the loop. Then I let it come back down to the right flipper and then left ramp, right ramp. And then you can right ramp. Hopefully, either you stop it or just straight on the fly into the spinner, and that's your times 3x combo. How cool is that? Yeah, well, thanks, Keith. I was thinking, with this isolation, players are going to be way better than before if they've got a game? Well, there's always this constant argument, right? The barroom hero or the basement man-taped hero versus going out and playing in a tournament. It's a little different. What makes it different is the settings, too. So if you have games set up pretty easy at home to get to these wizard modes, yeah, you're going to have a nice smack of reality when you get out and play in competitions. Yeah, I mean, I always go by what Jorian Engelbrecht said. I think it was at Chicago Expo or something, I think. He said learning to play tournament pinball is actually, it's a trainable, practicable thing, like a skill that you can do, not just like flipper skills, but you have to learn to play in a tournament. Because that same thing, people can be really good at their local bar, their home, or wherever, but when you're in a big tournament and the money's online and your ball's trapped and you've got to make a pressure shot, that's a whole different thing. We were talking before we started recording, as we're Skyping right now, you were looking at some of my games, and you and I are in the minority. Oh, yeah, your collection. You saw The Simpsons and love it like I love it. A lot of people don't get that game. Yeah. You don't have to sell me on it. That game will never leave my house. Oh, yeah. If I could find one I could own for a reasonable price, I would get it and never sell it. Yeah, it's basically just super deep. A lot of shots, a lot of options, cool toy. I mean, great theme if you like The Simpsons. Great sounds. Yeah, the whole package. It's a great game. Have you gotten to the end on that one, Jeff? Have I gotten to the end on that? I haven't even completed Alien Invasion. What? Come on. No, I get to the five balls. I can't lock all five. I've tried staging. No. I completed ACDC Simpsons Next. There you go. I think I've done it twice. Jeez. Definitely once. Alien Invasion or the whole thing? Alien Invasion. Okay. I completed it. Maybe twice ever. The whole thing I've gotten to within. everything completed except for three out of five super jackpots. And that would have done it. So the super jackpots, in my opinion, is the hardest thing to do. Again, another thing watching Carl. I'm going to have to get Carl in here and we'll have to talk about this because I say players are going to get better. Guys like Carl are going to be just ridiculous. Oh yeah. Well, I always tell people too, you know, Simpsons is kind of what kind of elevated my play from a level where I was kind of stuck maybe like B and then I think into A. I remember for starting, I would watch Dean Grover, Adam Lefkoff, Donovan, and those guys. We'd play a four-player game, and they would get like $20 million, $30 million. And that blew my mind. I was like, wow, how do you get $20 million, $30 million on Simpsons? So I was getting like $3 million, $4 million, $5 million, $10 million maybe. I thought it was a huge score. Now it's like you've got to get $200 million, and then maybe I'll blink an eye. It is a great game. Zen, the reason I wanted to talk to you is, well, one, I miss you and all the other pinball players. We certainly compete quite a bit, and you're a fun guy to be around. And you went through some hell just recently And a lot of us are certainly feeling the impact Hopefully it not physically Hopefully it not mentally or financially but you got hit hard and you and your wife both contracted COVID-19. So I remember when Tom Hanks got it. That was the kind of first hit home thing. Oh, I know that person. Well, a lot of people know Nick and others that have contracted this, so maybe this will give it some perspective that this is a bloody serious pandemic, and you went through hell, didn't you? I mean, yeah, it was a rough time dealing with it. I'm glad to be, thankful to be better recovered. But, yeah, it wasn't really as a severity during it because definitely other people have worse symptoms. Luckily, mine were pretty mild comparatively. But just the length of time, you're just so tired and achy and you've got fevers all the time, pretty much lack of appetite, I didn't want to eat. Thankfully, no, I didn't have any cough or lung issues. But, yeah, you just stay sick. That's the worst part. Like, you think you'll be better. You're like, come on, come on. It's already how many days? I got to be better. It just keeps, it's still there. What was the first symptom you felt that something's not right? Like I said, I think it was definitely, I mean, definitely fever. And then, like, muscle aches. Like, you know, why am I so achy? I didn't do anything. And then, yeah, loss of appetite and the lethargy, too. You just, like, you feel like you're wiped out. Like, you're like, what happened? I didn't run a marathon today. Why am I having no energy? And I'm usually, like, you know, bouncing off the walls. But for me, when I am, like, can't get up or don't want to get up, it's a big deal. So you're really kind of limited. There's not much you can do. And then to make things worse, your wife also contracted it, and you also have a young daughter. Yes. So what's going through your head at that point? Well, I mean, we pretty much, my wife and I got the exact same time. And, you know, our biggest thing was just to keep our daughter safe. So I just quarantined her in her room basically for 14 days, which is tough, you know, because you want to talk to them and see how they're doing to make sure they're, you know, still staying well, you know, physically and mentally. But, yeah, then you're just trying to keep everybody safe and healthy as much as you can, you know, taking whatever medicine you're supposed to, staying inside, you know, washing your hands, keeping us up. It's funny, me and my wife would cook with, like, a mask and our gloves on because even though the food's cooking, you know, you're still afraid of contamination some way. I've heard of a lot of people and friends of both you and I and the pinball community in New York City that have gone through hell. I'm hoping the worst is behind us, but I get the difficulties. I get that it sucks that we are eight weeks now home. We're getting hammered financially, mentally, hopefully not physically, and that's why we are home. And I just think, you know, whether it's you, me, losing our shirts money-wise because of lack of work or whatever the case may be, All the money in the world doesn't buy you great health. So that's kind of the foundation. I want to stay healthy. We'll worry about the rest later. What's your perspective on this when you see concerns about, you know, we got to get back? Yeah, I mean, you see people and it's just almost unbelievable the way they react and stuff. I mean, as somebody who's been sick, you know, I had this thing and I knew the reason. So it's, you know, it's real close to home. I can understand for some people that maybe don't know anybody that's had a case or don't see anybody. so they might have to tend to overreact. But, I mean, yeah, just think about all the terrible things that people have had to live through. I mean, staying home in your awesome 2020 place where you have how many screens and you have access to infinite entertainment and information and you can get food and whatever delivered to your door. I mean, people in the past, through whatever wars and terrible things that humanity has went through, they've had to do all that, but no electricity, you know, or no sanitation. I mean, it's kind of silly the reaction that people are having, in my opinion. Because like you said, if you're sick, you don't have your health, then nothing else matters. Going back to when we were first talking on this podcast, you talked about, as a young man, going to China. And one of the things that really, really upset me was calling this the China virus and the incorrect inaccuracies of comments that were made. You've spent a lot of time in China. You met your wife there. You started a family because of your time in China. I have yet to go. Tell me your thoughts about what's going on in China and this inaccurate perception. I think it's always going to be, you know, it ends like that. Just from the time I lived there and the time to hear, you know, I'd see like a news report from home would say something. And then the Chinese news report is exactly the opposite. You know, so it's always, you know, one guy is the good guy and one side, the other guy is the bad guy. That's always a portrayal. And the truth is somewhere in between. but just I think racism is an easy escape or easy scapegoat for people so it's probably a shame that they've maybe never been out or met other people or know the difficulties of life I mean I probably learned more in five years in China than I did in all my time at school just from how difficult life can be to how wonderful people can be in a tough time so there's different kind of people everywhere good and bad and China the people there are no less think what you want to think about the governments I don't love American government. I don't love a lot of governments. But that's something aside from it. I think that's a lot of people have a hard time understanding is sitting aside a government, a country from people, right? Exactly. Like if it's just you're Joe and he's Tom and there's Karen, every country has that. You're just living your life. You're not involved in major decisions of these kind of ramifications. So the disease happened, unfortunately. That's where it started. People want to think what they want to think about how it started. and unless you're like a top scientist and you've had empirical evidence of what happened, then I don't think you should speak. But I guess people get antsy from staying in their room watching TV and whatever all day for a month. Yeah, that was the one thing I was kind of hoping when we were asked to stay at home and were asked to not be a burden to the health care workers and the hospitals and let them prepare for this pandemic. I thought maybe we would all be in this together and a little less selfish. And if we all are healthy and if we're all going to be able to survive this, we have to work together as opposed to me, me, me. And unfortunately, some people don't think of the ramifications of what this can do to others, like yourself, like your family, having to go through this horrible, horrible COVID-19. And we can do better as people. I was hoping. I still think we can. I think a lot of us are, but we're not out of the woods yet. Yeah, I agree. I mean, you see a lot of good stuff, but with the bad and vice versa. And, you know, all you can do is, you know, try to talk to people that, you know, are within your network of people and be like, hey, you know, be smart, be respectful. You know, there's a lot of people that are really suffering compared to what boredom is, which is basically the symptom that people that are complaining about. I mean, I'm a father and I'm sure you know, too. If my kid comes to mind when I'm bored, I'm like, you have every access to every kind of entertainment and information ever. And if you tell me you're bored, that's insulting. Because we had to grow up with books and phones and we weren't given everything. So you learn to appreciate what you don't have. You've got a roof over your head. You've got food in your belly. You've got clothes on your back. Yeah. Boredom is nothing. It could be a lot worse. Yeah. I do feel for the kids too, because it's a different perspective and there's the more mental aspect for the kids too. But we'll get through this. And thank you for sharing your insight of what it did to you and your family to maybe let people kind of realize you know this is something you don't want to wish upon your worst enemy let alone your friends and family sure definitely and i think it's a good thing to know too the we were talking about earlier is the the difference of symptoms from person to person so like uh i think we were saying that you know most people think it's uh coughing or something wrong with your lungs or shortness of breath and my wife and not neither of my wife or i suffered uh any kind of shortness of breath or lung symptoms. But the fevers can do damage too. So, I mean, that's certainly not something to take lightly. Oh, yeah. I mean, everything else was horrible. But just that was something I was surprised because, you know, that we were positive because they said that's one of the initial symptoms of it. Zen, I'm glad to hear you're on the road to recovery. And I hope the same for your wife and family as well, too. And hope to see you safe someday very, very soon. Also, likewise. I hope everyone stays healthy, happy and at home. And let's get through it. Next pinball tournament. You got it, Nick. Thanks very much. Yeah, cheers, man. This has been your Pinball Profile. You can find everything on pinballprofile.com, including the new RSS feeds, all past episodes. Find us on Twitter and on Instagram at pinballprofile. Email us pinballprofile at gmail.com. And don't forget to check out our Facebook group. I'm Jeff Teolas. you _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: f1f17dc5-61f1-4e1c-82a8-cdf97fb34624*