# Episode 2: John Trudeau **Source:** Pinball Profile **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2016-11-06 **Duration:** 7m 25s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.pinballprofile.com/episode-2-john-trudeau/ --- ## Analysis Jeff Teolis interviews legendary Stern pinball designer John Trudeau about his career spanning from Gottlieb (Spirit, Rocky) through a long industry hiatus (1995-2014) to his return at Stern with Mustang, WrestleMania, and Ghostbusters. Trudeau discusses the challenges of the 'dark days' of pinball, his work in CAD/SolidWorks during the drought, an unrealized Caddyshack project at ICE, and the commercial success of Ghostbusters as validation of modern pinball's market viability. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] John Trudeau designed Spirit and Rocky at Gottlieb as early works — _Direct statement by Trudeau in interview about his first games at Gottlieb_ - [HIGH] Game design process at Gottlieb took approximately 9 months to a year, similar to current Stern timelines — _Trudeau: 'It still takes, you know, a nice nine months to a year'_ - [HIGH] Trudeau was largely unable to find pinball design work between 1995 and 2014 despite extensive experience — _Trudeau: 'I never thought I would have such a hard time... finding a job' during 'dark days of pinball'_ - [HIGH] Trudeau worked in SolidWorks for a point-of-purchase company during the pinball industry hiatus — _Trudeau: 'I went in as an AutoCAD designer, and they decided to make all their mechanical guys learn SolidWorks'_ - [HIGH] Trudeau designed an unrealized Caddyshack pinball game for ICE (Innovative Concepts and Entertainment) in the early 2000s — _Trudeau: 'And they asked me to come up and design a pinball machine for them... it was going to be Caddyshack'_ - [HIGH] Ghostbusters pinball operators report machines paying for themselves within a few months — _Teolis: 'operators are loving... machines are paying for themselves within a few months'_ - [HIGH] Mustang (2014) marked Trudeau's return to full-time pinball design at Stern after 19-year hiatus — _Teolis: 'So let's talk about 2014. You come back with Mustang'_ - [HIGH] WrestleMania was developed on a very tight schedule as a fallback after a different licensed theme fell through at five months into development — _Trudeau: 'Five months in or so, that license and our way of doing things didn't work out, and we had to just scrap the whole effort'_ ### Notable Quotes > "I was just happy to be doing what I was doing. I couldn't realize that I was actually getting paid money to design pinball machines." > — **John Trudeau**, early in interview > _Establishes Trudeau's early enthusiasm and passion when starting at Gottlieb_ > "That was the dark days of pinball. I never thought I would have such a hard time with all the experience you get designing a pinball machine, finding a job." > — **John Trudeau**, discussing 1995-2014 period > _Reflects the severe industry contraction and employment crisis during pinball's near-death period_ > "My brain is not thinking games anymore like it used to. So it was a push to get that game out." > — **John Trudeau**, discussing Mustang return > _Candid admission of the cognitive challenge of returning to game design after 19-year absence_ > "WrestleMania was not really something that I was enthusiastic about. It came about almost as a fallback position." > — **John Trudeau**, discussing WrestleMania development > _Reveals that a beloved and innovative game was born from necessity rather than passion_ > "The fact that they're paying for themselves is I'm ecstatic about. This brings me back to some of the heyday times we had in the 90s when the games were collecting phenomenal amounts." > — **John Trudeau**, discussing Ghostbusters success > _Emotional validation that modern pinball can achieve commercial success comparable to pre-1995 era_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | John Trudeau | person | Legendary pinball designer at Stern; designed Spirit, Rocky, Mustang, WrestleMania, Ghostbusters; survived industry hiatus 1995-2014 | | Jeff Teolis | person | Host of Pinball Profile podcast; interviewer in this episode | | Gottlieb | company | Historical pinball manufacturer where Trudeau began career; workplace described as having strong team environment | | Stern Pinball | company | Current employer of Trudeau; location of Mustang, WrestleMania, Ghostbusters design | | ICE (Innovative Concepts and Entertainment) | company | Buffalo-based company that commissioned unrealized Caddyshack pinball from Trudeau in early 2000s | | Mustang | game | 2014 Stern pinball game; Trudeau's return to full-time design after 19-year hiatus; characterized as 'safe' design relying on proven shot concepts | | WrestleMania | game | Stern pinball game developed as emergency fallback after licensed theme collapsed; innovative ring design; not initially enthusiastic project | | Ghostbusters | game | Latest Trudeau game at Stern; commercially successful; operators report machines pay for themselves within months | | Spirit | game | Early Trudeau game at Gottlieb; featured small upper level; demonstrates learning curve from simpler to complex designs | | Rocky | game | Early Trudeau game at Gottlieb mentioned alongside Spirit | | Caddyshack | game | Unrealized Trudeau pinball machine designed for ICE in early 2000s; reportedly had Bill Murray and possibly Rodney Dangerfield involvement; never built due to ICE 'cold feet' | | Pat Lawlor | person | Referenced jokingly by Trudeau as potential blocker of Caddyshack (didn't want 'other Gopher games' after Caddyshack theme) | | Jim Shelberg | person | From Penn Game Journal; connected Trudeau to Fox Sports ad project in 2005 | | Fox Sports | company | Commissioned Trudeau to design real pinball machine for 2005 All-Star Game television advertisement | | Bill Murray | person | Actor; reportedly approached/involved with Caddyshack pinball project; appeared on Ghostbusters pinball glass | | Rodney Dangerfield | person | Actor; potentially involved with Caddyshack pinball project (Trudeau notes he was still alive at that time, suggesting uncertainty) | | Pinball Profile | organization | Podcast series hosted by Jeff Teolis; this is Episode 2 featuring John Trudeau | ### Topics - **Primary:** Career history and design evolution, Industry hiatus (1995-2014) and personal impact, Return to Stern and recent games (Mustang, WrestleMania, Ghostbusters) - **Secondary:** Design process and timeline, Unrealized projects (Caddyshack at ICE), Commercial success as industry validation - **Mentioned:** Design philosophy and creative approach ### Sentiment **Positive** (0.78) — Trudeau reflects on career with satisfaction and pride, particularly regarding Ghostbusters success and return to pinball. Some nostalgia and melancholy about industry hiatus period, but overall tone is upbeat and forward-looking. Teolis is supportive and congratulatory throughout. ### Signals - **[business_signal]** Industry hiatus 1995-2014: severe employment crisis for pinball designers despite extensive experience; resume skepticism from potential employers; overqualification concerns (confidence: high) — Trudeau: 'The people would look at my resume and say, you're kidding... I was passed over a number of times' - **[design_philosophy]** Trudeau initially unenthusiastic about WrestleMania theme despite game becoming innovative and beloved; came from necessity not passion (confidence: high) — Trudeau: 'WrestleMania was not really something that I was enthusiastic about. It came about almost as a fallback position.' - **[design_philosophy]** Trudeau's design approach characterized as 'safe' on Mustang comeback—deliberately drawing on proven shot concepts from past successes rather than taking risks after long absence (confidence: high) — Trudeau: 'I was trying to get back and pick out good things that people enjoyed... maybe being a little bit safe too' - **[market_signal]** Ghostbusters pinball achieving strong commercial operator ROI (payback within months) signals market recovery and renewed demand for location pinball (confidence: high) — Teolis: 'operators are loving... machines are paying for themselves within a few months'; Trudeau: 'This brings me back to some of the heyday times we had in the 90s' - **[personnel_signal]** John Trudeau's career: Gottlieb (early career) → industry hiatus with CAD/SolidWorks work (1995-2014) → return to Stern (2014-present) (confidence: high) — Trudeau's detailed account of employment transitions and Teolis's framing of 2014 return - **[announcement]** WrestleMania developed as emergency fallback project after primary licensed theme collapsed at 5-month mark; extremely compressed timeline with ring mechanic addition (confidence: high) — Trudeau: 'Five months in or so, that license and our way of doing things didn't work out... I had to put a ring in it' --- ## Transcript Time for another Pinball Profile. I'm Jeff Teolis, and we're talking to one of the greatest game designers, John Trudeau. Congratulations on your latest, which is Ghostbusters. Well, thank you very much. Let's go back a few years to some of the first games you made. I can think of Spirit, but also Rocky. Tell us about first designing a pinball machine. That was an experience, let's put it that way. I was just happy to be doing what I was doing. I couldn't realize that I was actually getting paid money to design pinball machines, and I was having a good time, a very good time. And the people at Gottlieb, when I got there in the beginning, it was a wonderful work area to be in. Everybody was pretty much working as a team. It was a lot of fun. But back then, I imagine the process of making a machine took a lot longer than it does today here at Stern. Well, the games weren't as complex as they are now. They were more or less single-level games. When I got there, they had just started doing Mars God of War for their production game, so they were getting into ramps again. And my first game was a single-level game, and the second one was Spirit, and that was a little, tiny little upper level, too. So, yeah, you know, it didn't take that much longer to do a game. It still takes, you know, a nice nine months to a year. I can't spend any more time on it. But maybe that's where I get my moniker from, the Dr. Flash thing from Python. He says, man, you work fast. I'd like to work fast. That's what I enjoy. Well, nine months for something that lasts a lifetime. I mean, it doesn't seem like a long time. But what was a long time was that period after 95 going into 2014 when it was hard to find pinball. It was kind of the dark days of the later generation of pinball. What were you doing then and how great was it to come back? That was the dark days of pinball. I never thought I would have such a hard time. With all the experience you get designing a pinball machine, finding a job. The people would look at my resume and say, you're kidding. You can do this, you can do this, you can do this. And I'd go, yeah, sure. They just didn't believe it. So I was passed over a number of times for positions that I was, I guess maybe I was overqualified for some of them. But I finally did land a spot with a point-of-purchase company. And fortunately for me, I went in as an AutoCAD designer, and they decided to make all their mechanical guys learn SolidWorks. And to me, that saved me my sanity, anyhow, for the next few years. The jobs I got that weren't pinball were at least in SolidWorks, and it's a very creative software. I enjoy using it. The touch on pinball between then and when I came back to Stern, I touched it once in the late 90s, no, early 2000s, when I went to ICE, Innovative Concepts and Entertainment. They're up in Buffalo. And they asked me to come up and design a pinball machine for them. Well, I did, and they designed it, and we started to build it, and then they got cold feet and decided not to build it, unfortunately. I thought it would be cool. It was going to be Caddyshack. Oh, my. Yeah. So, you know, I believe we had, I don't know about, I think Bill Murray was on board with this thing, too. I didn't have the contact list that we do here but the guy that was organizing it, and maybe even Rodney Dangerfield. He was still alive at that point. But it didn't go through unfortunately. I jokingly blame Lawler. He didn't want any other Gopher games. This was before. Oh, wow. No, I guess maybe it wasn't. I forget that. No, that's right. But it was the classic golf piece, you know, Caddyshack. It was great stuff. Maybe someday. Maybe. You never know. I never say never. After that, I got a job through Jim Shelberg from Penn Game Journal. He set me up with Fox Sports when they were doing a television ad for the All-Star Game, I believe it was 2005, in Detroit. And they wanted to do it on a pinball machine, but they wanted a real pinball machine, not some rendering from an artist. So they hired me to design them a pinball machine, and I did. And I said, can I build it too? And he said, I don't know. But I never got, I still have the layout and the design. And it ended up as the ad on television. Very nice. Jeff Teolis with John Trudeau. So let's talk about 2014. You come back with Mustang and what a game and had to be great to be back doing full-time pinball. That was very scary for me only because I had been away so long. And I relished the opportunity to get back in, but it was like, wow, my brain is not thinking games anymore like it used to. So it was a push to get that game out. And I just had to rely pretty much on past successful efforts. There are similarities in a lot of the shots to some of my past games and it was only because of necessity. I was trying to get back and pick out good things that people enjoyed. Maybe being a little bit safe too. The game is fantastic. When I say safe, I mean, you know pinball players are going to enjoy that. Oh, for sure. They're used to those kind of shots. For sure, exactly. You took pinball to a whole new level when you came out with WrestleMania. That's a different game, and there's been nothing like that. WrestleMania was not really something that I was enthusiastic about. It came about almost as a fallback position. We were doing a different theme, entirely different theme, and a license. Well, five months in or so, that license and our way of doing things didn't work out, and we had to just scrap the whole effort. Well, I, for one, can't take one pinball play field and make it into a wrestling game. So I had to put a ring in it, and that's what happened. So it was a very short project for me. I had to crank it up and get something new, and I ended up with the WWE. Well, let's talk about your latest Ghostbusters, which operators are loving. These machines are paying for themselves within a few months, and you've got to be really proud about Ghostbusters. I'm very happy with that. The fact that they're paying for themselves is I'm ecstatic about. This brings me back to some of the heyday times we had in the 90s when the games were collecting phenomenal amounts. And I hope that it's a foretelling of the future. Maybe pinball can be back. Well, you didn't get Bill Murray in Caddyshack, but you got him on the glass there for Ghostbusters. It's a great game, and we look forward to the next thing from John Trudeau. Well, thank you. Thanks very much. This has been Pinball Profile. I'm Jeff Teolis. _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: f2d67cb7-15a0-49d3-9fa0-a12f7602e709*