# The Pinball Show Ep 164: Yeah, I'm Thinking Yoko's Back! **Source:** The Pinball Network **Type:** video **Published:** 2024-11-18 **Duration:** 80m 47s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwagbwf_oyc --- ## Analysis Zach Minney and Dennis Nordman discuss Stern Pinball production updates including Metallica Remastered shipping, Godzilla 70th Anniversary wrapping up, Star Wars Comic coming in December, and a surprise Beatles Gold limited rerun. They cover widespread Uncanny X-Men plunge and ball routing issues requiring adjustments, debate whether quality concerns might discourage manufacturer risk-taking, and reveal leaked artwork suggesting a scrapped Bill and Ted pinball machine was in development by artist Jeremy Packer. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Metallica Remastered Elites have hit the production line and are shipping throughout the week — _Zach discusses current Stern production schedule_ - [HIGH] Godzilla 70th Anniversary black-and-white edition production is ending this week with no further runs planned — _Zach: 'that black-and-white anniversary edition—them's gone. Once they're done making them this week, they ain't making them no more.'_ - [HIGH] Beatles Gold Edition is returning with less than 100 units to be built — _Dennis: 'they do have less than 100 to build' and Zach confirms original Beatles run didn't reach intended production numbers_ - [HIGH] Beatles Gold MSRP is $8,499, which is $1,200 cheaper than Premium models — _Zach: 'The standard run of the Gold is going to be set at $8,499. So that's $1,200 cheaper than a Premium model.'_ - [HIGH] Star Wars Comic Pro and Premium aim to start building in the first week of December — _Zach: 'Star Wars Comic Pro and Premium—they're aiming to start building those in the first week of December.'_ - [HIGH] Uncanny X-Men is experiencing widespread plunge/shooter issues where the ball falls short and doesn't make it around the ramp — _Zach: 'people are reporting, to a significant degree, yeah, I've seen that more than any other thing: complaints about the plunge. It's not plunging, manually or automatically, up and around the ramp'_ - [HIGH] Stern initially sent out automatic new plungers to address X-Men issues but stated they are still working on adjustments and fixes — _Zach: 'Stern initially, they acknowledged it... they started sending out automatic new automatic plungers. But then they came out and told us dealers... we are still working on adjustments and fixes'_ - [MEDIUM] Bill and Ted pinball machine artwork by Jeremy Packer was discovered in social media work-in-progress posts, suggesting a scrapped/canceled project — _Zach: 'one of them was not identifiably pinball because we have not seen that title... it was of Bill and Ted... I think he snuck it in there because, in fact, he did a lot of work on a Bill and Ted pinball machine that was going to be made, listener, but it was canceled or scrapped'_ ### Notable Quotes > "Yeah, the return of Yoko. She's back." > — **Dennis**, ~12:45 > _Lighthearted reference to Beatles Gold returning; title references Beatles' Yoko Ono connection_ > "I do think they'll sell out of this at this point. I think they'll move it. Okay, it was a fun game. I've played it a number of times. It's one of my favorite Sterns." > — **Zach**, ~14:20 > _Despite criticism of single-level games, Zach predicts Beatles Gold will sell out at current pricing_ > "I really want to—I want to say that X-Men wouldn't have been the thing that had been moved up or it wouldn't have come out when it did if the whitewood wasn't finalized. I just really struggled to think that they would have half-baked the design." > — **Dennis**, ~28:30 > _Dennis argues X-Men design was likely finalized but code was rushed; suggests layout complexity rather than deliberate cost-cutting_ > "If a Sentinel is breaking a ball bridge and is battling the player, who gives a [expletive] if the ball is coming towards the center drain? Nudge better." > — **Zach**, ~31:45 > _Zach defends the ball drop mechanic as intentional game design during Sentinel battles_ > "I am too pro-consumer to say that you should operate in fear of being punished by the manufacturers. And so I cannot support a stance that we need to shut up because they might punish us by going back to being basic." > — **Dennis**, ~37:20 > _Dennis rejects Zach's argument that consumer complaints might discourage risky design; prioritizes consumer advocacy_ > "I just worry that these companies won't take risks. I want cool [expletive] in pinball, and I just worry that these companies won't take risks." > — **Zach**, ~38:15 > _Core concern: Zach fears manufacturers will retreat to safe designs if complex games face criticism_ > "I think money is what talks, and what people whine about on Pinside is really not moving the needle." > — **Dennis**, ~39:30 > _Dennis disputes Zach's concern; argues sales drive design decisions more than forum complaints_ > "I myself am in love with Zombie Yeti artwork—Jeremy Packer artwork. Just love it. Can't get enough of it." > — **Zach**, ~40:00 > _Zach expresses enthusiasm for Jeremy Packer's art style; sets up leak discovery_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Zach Minney | person | Co-host of The Pinball Show; owner of Flippin' Out Pinball; discusses production updates and market trends | | Dennis | person | Co-host of The Pinball Show; YouTube content creator; discusses game design and manufacturing quality | | Stern Pinball | company | Major manufacturer; producing Metallica Remastered, Godzilla 70th, Star Wars Comic, Beatles Gold; focus of production updates | | Jeremy Packer | person | Pinball artist known as 'Zombie Yeti'; created artwork for multiple Stern titles; leaked Bill and Ted artwork on social media | | Metallica Remastered | game | Stern release shipping in Elite and Premium tiers; strong sales performance; accessories expected in December | | Godzilla 70th Anniversary | game | Stern limited-run black-and-white edition ending production this week; selling well; new accessories package shipping | | Uncanny X-Men | game | Stern game with widespread plunge/shooter issues; complex novel layout; selling well despite quality concerns; Stern sending replacement plungers | | Star Wars Comic | game | Stern title aiming to begin production in first week of December in Pro and Premium tiers | | Beatles Gold | game | Stern license returning with surprise limited run of <100 units; MSRP $8,499; single-level game; not reaching original allocation in first run | | Bill and Ted | game | Pinball machine project that was scrapped/canceled; artwork leaked via Jeremy Packer social media posts suggesting development occurred | | Pinside | platform | Online forum where pinball community discusses games and complaints; referenced as having limited influence on manufacturer decisions | | Travis Murray | person | Host of Triple Drain podcast; disagreed with Dennis on Metallica post-gap discussion | | Brian Eddy | person | Stern designer; created fan layout games including Stranger Things, Venom; referenced for design approach comparison | | Eric Minor | person | Jersey Jack representative; video showing decision to remove complex features from Pirates of the Caribbean | | The Pinball Show | podcast | Podcast hosted by Zach and Dennis; offers Club membership for exclusive sales analysis and deeper discussions | ### Topics - **Primary:** Stern Pinball production and shipping schedules, Uncanny X-Men quality issues and manufacturing challenges, Game design philosophy: complexity vs. reliability tradeoff - **Secondary:** Limited edition and special run production strategy, Pricing and value perception across game tiers, Consumer feedback and its influence on manufacturer decisions, Artwork and artist involvement in pinball design - **Mentioned:** Bill and Ted pinball cancellation and asset management ### Sentiment **Mixed** (0.35) — Positive regarding product releases, sales performance, and artistic quality; concerned about X-Men manufacturing issues, game complexity risks, and industry decision-making; optimistic about future releases but cautious about potential creative constraints ### Signals - **[business_signal]** Metallica Remastered showing strong sales performance; described as selling 'incredibly well' alongside Godzilla; suggests sustained demand for premium Stern releases (confidence: high) — Zach: 'those games sell incredibly well' and 'Metallica Remastered, they're starting to ship' with positive market reception - **[community_signal]** Zach received public shout-out during wedding ceremony mentioning Flippin' Out Pinball; demonstrates community recognition of industry figures and viral marketing potential of personal endorsements (confidence: high) — Zach: 'he said, Akin to my love for pinball, and he says, I know Zach Minney from Flippin' Out Pinball knows what I'm talking about' during wedding reading - **[sentiment_shift]** Dennis criticizes online pinball community reviews and reviewer quality; notes defensive response from 'B+ reviewers'; reflects tension between content creators and community criticism (confidence: medium) — Dennis: 'I did a video that criticized people that do reviews—the reviewer folks, you know, the B-pluses out there. They have not been all that thrilled.' - **[design_philosophy]** Tension between risk-taking in complex layouts (X-Men) and pressure to ensure reliability; hosts debate whether consumer complaints about issues might discourage ambitious design innovation (confidence: high) — Zach: 'I fear that if, as a hobby, we continue to complain and moan and whine, then at some point I fear manufacturers like Stern Pinball might go, All right, give them Led Zeppelin. Give him that fan layout.' - **[leak_detection]** Jeremy Packer unintentionally or deliberately leaked Bill and Ted pinball artwork on social media among work-in-progress posts, revealing scrapped/canceled project with significant artist investment (confidence: medium) — Zach discovers artwork series: 'one of them was not identifiably pinball because we have not seen that title... it was of Bill and Ted... placed in there—at picture number 10 or whatever—was a little sneak peek of Bill and Ted' - **[market_signal]** Single-level game format (Beatles Gold) historically criticized by collectors but gaining traction at lower price point; Zach predicts sellout despite initial market resistance (confidence: medium) — Zach: 'single-level games do not appeal to a vast swath of modern collectors. That said, I do think they'll sell out of this at this point... at this point... I think they'll move it.' - **[personnel_signal]** Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) artwork leak suggests Bill and Ted pinball was in development before cancellation; artist may have intentionally posted to preserve project memory or demonstrate work (confidence: medium) — Zach discovers artwork post: 'I think he snuck it in there because, in fact, he did a lot of work on a Bill and Ted pinball machine that was going to be made, listener, but it was canceled or scrapped' - **[announcement]** Stern announcing specialty/limited production runs in December for outstanding orders of popular titles (Stranger Things Pro, Jurassic Park Pro, Jaws Pro/Premium, Black Knight Pro) (confidence: high) — Zach: 'there's going to be an itsy-bitsy, just a wee bit, some specialty runs that are going to close out the month of December. That is their existing outstanding orders' - **[product_strategy]** Beatles Gold returning with reduced production (less than 100 units) after failing to reach original allocation targets; MSRP reduced by $1,200 compared to original release positioning (confidence: high) — Zach confirms original Beatles run 'never made their original number' and new run is 'less than 100 to build' at lower MSRP - **[product_concern]** Uncanny X-Men experiencing widespread plunge/shooter issues where manual and automatic plunges fail to complete ramp shot; ball falling off wire forms inconsistently; requires mechanical adjustments beyond standard setup (confidence: high) — Zach: 'people are reporting, to a significant degree, yeah, I've seen that more than any other thing: complaints about the plunge' and 'people are saying, Well, it's there, screws poking out or Like it needs this adjustment' - **[technology_signal]** Debate about whether X-Men complexity (novel layout, interactive toys) is inherently risky or indicates rushed development; Stern's limited whitebox testing may not surface all integration issues (confidence: medium) — Dennis: 'I would lean more to the layout personally. It's the complexity of it. The state of the code is explained by it being pushed up' and acknowledgment that 'Stern... doesn't have the best reputation about troubleshooting before production' --- ## Transcript warning The Following episode contains adult language and screaming goats listener discretion is [Music] advised the pinball network is online launching the pinball show this week on an all new the pinball show Dennis and I chat about what's new in the world of pinball Stern Pinball production updates Stern running more Beatles gold machines additional December games going into production recent sales of Metallica remastered and how they stack up to the field Uncanny X-Men popularity and consumer feedback thus far a scrapped Bill and Ted pinball machine question mark John Wick getting a boost American pinball production and Company updates other pendry news and pinball market trends official TPS club members this week get exclusive content covering discussion of sales and comparing game success cross manufacturers American pinballs communication about retired games and Enthusiast perceptions and we talk about whether or not some manufacturers are making a big mistake with how they are Distributing their products overseas versus those going to the United States all of this and more on episode 164 of the pinball show Happy Thanksgiving everyone pinball is a game of skill for some it's a passion and a lifestyle it's time for the pinball show it's pinball with personality I can see her lying back in dress in room where you do what you don't confess sun down you better take care if I find you been creeping around my backstairs some and away we go ladies and gentlemen it's the pinball show it's episode 164 I'm Zach mini alongside Dennis [ __ ] Cal how's it goingn we're back it's been it's been 84 years it's been a while a month it's been a month what's that song is that Nickelback it's been a while I I don't know Nickelback Oasis who is that it's been a while stained stained oh yes the Nickelback of Tide it's not been too long I guess a couple extra weeks here but I'm fired up and and very very ready to go I I've been working hard been going to different events Dennis uh what about you what have you been doing well it's been a lot of work uh I've done a few things over with my wristwatch YouTube you know oh this one you'll appreciate this so I did a video that criticize people that do reviews and the reviewer folks you know the B pluses out there they they they have not been all that thrilled though the general the general public has been much more supportive of my position oh yeah I could I could imagine but if they're responding then they're paying attention it hits a little close to home when when's the next B+ review coming out speaking of the nextt you know we we made the choice to either we could just not do reviews anymore we just say [ __ ] it we really don't care we like pinball so we'll review and people want to [ __ ] and cry about it that's fine they can [ __ ] and cry about it on to the next one Speaking of on to the next one hopefully that will not happen uh to my experience uh a couple weeks ago I went to this wedding and I you know what I appreciate the outdoor weddings I like them they're don't you think there's such a gamble though with the Carl Weathers that's I think I I like The Moxy there I like the confidence they didn't require me to dress in a certain way or anything like that so nice wedding so invited to this wedding outdoor wedding more of a a progressive wedding is that a thing I don't know what me um I'm used to very traditional like The Wedding March and all that typically Catholic based Cathedral style Mass weddings lots of Oregon oh love me some Oregan yes uh I just pictured alvra I go we go this wedding very Progressive in that um there were readings done but they weren't readings from the book of or anything like that there were more readings from family and friends that had a message within then so the Bri Grom still standing up there instead of reading to the book of Luker they read their own message to the bride and groom it's a little bit more Progressive one individual was was reading to the to the attendees and talking about how they met and you know the bride and groom's obsessions with movies and stuff like that and all of a sudden Dennis the individual said uh something you know you guys love movies and you love these obscure blah blah blah almost akin to my love for pinball it was you you're the speaker [ __ ] he was dead the whole time you were the joy of Christmas all along that's right Bob cret no so he said akin to my love for pinball and he says I know Zach Minnie from flipping out pinball knows what I'm talking about oh you P for a plug I that dire I didn't know the industry was that bad thank you uh needless to say that guy's definitely going to get one hell of a discount next time he orders he gave me a shout out for my company mid weding reading it was [ __ ] awesome you know is going to be raided right up there there was a person I used to watch their their YouTube channel um and uh one of the members of it was they focused on movies YouTube channel movies and uh one of the guys on there was getting married and they actually got Dwayne the rockn John to officiate the wedding and during it he plugged that skyscraper movie yes and I was just like that is what this reminds me of so tacky so wrong great it made my entire month so well of course it did for you I could not help but to respond right in the middle of the right in the middle of the the ceremony I was in the bag and I stood up said heck yeah man and I sat down oh my God gave him a little fist bump afterwards I was like complet completely ruined that getting a discount F show I guess Progressive is one way to describe right oh was so funny cuz Nicole was like really shees to see her sliding down in the lawn chair lower and lower yeah yeah so that was that was a cool event that I attended shout out you know who you are out there oh my gosh you list that game I'll bring it to you a lot of stuff going on on this week let's jump into Stern Pinball alone the past couple of weeks listener they've been building Godzilla 70th anniversaries Godzilla premiums the color version and Metallica remastered Alie have hit the line I have been hearing some interesting stuff about this metallic but go on so we're GNA go a postgate is that where we're going uh that one might baby all right so Metallica remastered they're starting to ship they're going to th throughout this week they're going to ship alongside continuation of Godzilla 70th Godzilla premium colors so that's kind of what they've been focusing on as of late and you know why listener because those games sell incredibly well uh We've we I have a a Metallica remastered Ellie right now sitting in my game room I have not unboxed it yet oh Well I mean you know most of the game already so well it's a different game so we'll see m I mean I know I heard Travis over on Triple drain was like Dennis you're not right at all oh I know but then he he wasn't sure about the post Travis agreeing with me wild we'll just put in a post in everything and make it a new game do you think that would solve go the Ghostbusters thing should they just put a Center Post between the flippers think so I don't think they should touch it I've had some others you used to though used to be like they need to they need to fix the Gap no I don't know NP I think numbers don't lie it's it's sold very well so just keep it don't I do think it would play fine as a standard Gap to game but I don't think it throws geometry up enough but uh no I say keep it so last couple of weeks they've been building now keep in mind people that Godzilla 70th that black and white anniversary edition them's gone one once they're done making them this week they're ain't making them no more yeah until they come out with another very similar looking premium like the Godzilla blood red Edition 75th Anniversary might be different but his little flame will be red and sparkly but everything else will be black and right said basically there's no reason to make a Godzilla I'll tell you what they probably would if his sales had been like they were two years ago oh yeah I don't know man this thing is selling very well and then uh the rest of November I know that the week of the 25th so that Thanksgiving week they're going to start on Metallica premiums so uh I I don't think we're going to maybe see Metallica remastered premiums land until early December and I'll tell you why because most of the shipping companies and Stern they're going to stop shipping probably Wednesday of Thanksgiving week so I I I don't see them building for two days starting that line and already getting something shipped out so they probably will not ship until that following week which falls into the 1st of December but we'll see we will see speaking of December Star Wars comic Pro and premium is they're aiming to start building those in the first week of December so we're going to see those very soon and then newly announced from Stern Pinball to dealers there's going to be an iny weeny just a wee bit some some specialty runs that are going to close out the month of December that is their existing outstanding uh orders for stranger things pro Jurassic Park Pro Jaws Pro Jaws premium so some big hot titles there and then more Black Knight Pros you heard it listener the sword of Rage Pro is coming back for some more run and then the Beatles Gold Edition what whoa what I knew it never did well enough uh and i' wondered if it had ever actually sold out of its allotment because that is a limited count run yeah the return of Yoko she's back yeah so they they had 19 1964 total games I think it was like 350 something Edition the Platinum Edition 100 of the diamond edition which left them uh what left them like 16 14 something like that but what you need to know listener is that they didn't build all of those because people were like this is an outrage they're going to make more Ellie this is [ __ ] well they never made their original number that they said they were going to make so I don't see that at the time at the time for those that weren't in the hobby uh I I'd say the main issue was the fact that it was a single level game and even the gold version was more than a pro so a lot of people just couldn't reconcile it yeah they did say to dealers that they do have less than 100 to build so it's not like they're doing this big run because people are like well are they going to do the Beatles topper and accessories again and no they're they're not playing on any of that because they're if they're just selling less than a hundred now there's no need to jump into the accessories thing again that's just what they said interesting to me here though we what 3 years ago when the Beatles were out if not longer the price of them relative to as you were talking about the pro or premium or Le counterparts was significantly different than the difference in pricing now from this Beatles run comparative to the pro premium La what I mean by that is that the MSRP on these Beatles gold has not seen the inflation esque type of numbers as the rest of the Cornerstone model so the studio run of the gold is going to be set at $84.99 so that's it's $1,200 cheaper than a premium model so I think the value is substantially better now on a Beatles than it was when it was first released and that was the biggest complaint I think uh whenever it was released was man it's a lot of money for and then they were like well the license was expensive well you know um remember that was the it doesn't million million dollar license I it's just and this we've seen this happen with a lot of games even really popular ones uh amongst enthusiasts like uh total nuclear Annihilation single level games do not appeal to a vast swath of modern collectors that said I do think they sell out of this at this point I think they'll I think they'll move it okay it it was a fun game I've played it a number of times it's one of my favorite Sterns but I mean yeah but yeah back then it was like this much for sewitch 2.0 and listener for further analysis on this story as always we you can dive deeper with us as an official Club member of the pinball show go to patreon.com theep pinball show for exclusive content such as us talking about this more I think we're going to jump into on patreon I want to talk about some of the sales recently uh across the manufacturer especially across stern here as we as we are into Q4 I think people are going to find some of these sales points very very interesting whenever you put them all out on the table and compare them so join us over there if you are a club member thank you for the continued support if not jump over there the minimum membership fee is $10 a month so heck why not jump over there let's talk more about the Beatles and sales in general if we're talking about accessories and the production updates there we did get an announcement of a new accessory package this coming from Godzilla 70th anniversary by Stern Pinball we got the black and white accessories not only announced in us but they've already started shipping oh yeah so no longer do you have to have a topless Godzilla 70 I wonder how long they had to like soak those toys and things in acetone to strip all the strip all the color out and then I heard some people like complain they're like wait a minute there's still some LEDs that are colored on the top or it should always be white like oh well God oh I I would respect the the purity of the commitment if they had just done white on they should but then everyone wanted them to charge less for the topper cuz they didn't need color changing rgbs or they would think that like Godzilla's just like Snoop Dogg now he's just blowing smoke he's not even blowing fire just smoke he's he's what chasing clouds what is it what's the thing where the Vapes then they blow the big clouds oh yeah man Godzilla 70th Anniversary accessories are now out uh still to be announced Venom accessories John I don't know where any of that stuff is Uncanny X-Men accessories Metallica remastered access well they did say that Metallica remastered accessories were supposed to fall uh at the end of this first run or so so I would anticipate December They will announce Metallica remastered accessories over the last couple weeks if you watched the forums listener you'll see that uncy X-Men while wildly popular is getting a lot of discussion with required tweaks and modifications uh for things to flow smoothly such as the shooter like the shooter plunge people are reporting to a significant degree yeah I've seen that more than any other thing is complaints about the plunge it's not plunging manually or automatically up and around the ramp back through the Habit Trail it's falling short uh it reminds me exactly of Avengers Infinity Quest when I mean even on my Avengers still wouldn't plunge all the way like every once in a while I'd make it all the way up around the wire form but if not it falls back down to what's the bird guy Hawkeye no not Hawkeye it's the bird guy uh Andrew Mack or some Mackey played that Andrew uh Captain America's counterpart Captain bird oh oh Falcon Falcon there it would fall into the Falcon little rollover and then come down so it feels very much like that uh people are saying well it's there screws poking out or like it needs this adjust it needs a washer here it needs so Stern initially they they acknowledged it and they said okay yeah we're we're seeing what you're seeing they started sending out like automatic new automatic plungers but then they came out and told us dealers and I think uh the rest of the community as well hey we are still working on adjustments and fixes for uh the shooter and people were reporting like the one of the ramps a continuation ramp one of the flaps is coming up um and then like the ball falls off a wire form every now and then uh so oh dear a little bit I would say more adjustments needed than a standard fan layout Brian Eddy game or like I don't know uh stranger things had its share of issues it did yeah going into demogorgan no they were almost always the demagorgon and TK lock yeah so oh yeah that's right TK so we're getting a lot of reports now some people are like well is that because they push this game up or is that because this game is Just much more of a complex unoriginal or like original type of unique layout and to that I I don't know what your answer is Dennis but I would say why not both I would lean more to the lad personally it's the complexity of it the the state of the code is explained by it being pushed up but sure the I would have hoped that the Whitewood had been finished before they for it so so um you know we just seen with Stern that they they don't have the best reputation in the business about troubleshooting their games before they go into production again the demagorgon stuff for example was seen by a lot as a a shocking uh drop of the ball like how did this toy come out in this state um how did you not know and that was as I recall that was their their answer was we in our testing it was fine mhm and and so I'm assuming this one was tested and it was fine but their testing's probably pretty Limited well remember Rush had some things too with the it's all sorts so I yeah I mean it could be a why not both but I really I want to I want to say that X-Men wouldn't have been the thing that had been moved up or it wouldn't have come out when it did if the Whitewood wasn't finalized I just I really struggled to think that they would have Half Baked the design the the code not being remotely where it should be is is more indicative of the acceleration so we do have a pro and an Ellie in our showroom and I noticed these issues on the plunge um I've noticed some balls falling off of the Ellie like the finger flick and or you know like some people are like Well when the other Sentinel hand destroys the wire for the ball always races down the middle okay so I'm mixed on these for something like that I'm like duh of course uh if a sentinel is breaking a Sophia Baldridge and is battling the player who gives a [ __ ] if the ball is coming towards the center drain nudge better like I what uh I [ __ ] it's like it's like when competive pinball players complain about magnets like oh how dare they have something that makes this fun what that's part of the game it's fun people getting people getting instad drained is not fun I think if you're a great pinball player then you can pretty much save most Center drain shots I okay but I think if you're a pretty good pinball player a lot of them are going to be playing competitively as well and they're going to say why am I being punished for making a shot especially when the pro doesn't do it because you're battling the Sentinel why whenever I'm playing a video game why do I get hit by the boss during the final stage because they're [ __ ] battling me that's why that's the easiest explanation that really has no challenges well I mean you can you can claim that there are no challenges I'm going to tell you Zach that with modern pinball play and you can debate it because I definitely think that it's a a worthy discussion to have if uh pinball has turned too much into baby's first pinball where every shot is safe and as long as you make your shots you get rewarded with additional play instead of keeping these games short and brutal like how they used to be but for a lot of people that is how they view pinball at the state and if a game is going to cheat them on and that's how I think they view it it's going to cheat them uh for making a shot uh and not cheat them on a different model for making a shot then they have a problem with it and so I mean they'll they'll probably argue for it's okay if the ball goes straight down the middle if they do something like how Godzilla would recognize it's risks of the building being straight down the middle and would give very short ball saves to try and accommodate for that um so there's a programming fix that can solve this but they would view it as needing fixed whereas you clearly do not view it as needing fixed no no not story it's telling in that pinball moment and what a pinball moment that is now I could see if the the ball was consistent in its pathway following that wire form breaking okay but here's the problem in no way shape or form design wise can it be consistent it is very much random it's within a window range of of you know physics sure but it is not going perpendicular right in between the flippers every time and guess what if it was guys there's a centerpost there's no argument here just yeah nudge better play better here's my thing the whole ball over the wire form stuff all bend your damn wire forms a little bit so the ball don't fall off uh I wasn't as bothered by the plunge thing because I'm used to Avengers and I'm used to unfortunately not a great excuse but I'm used to putting shooter rods accessory shooter rods on all my games which always messes up a full lunge um but like to the extent that people are like this game's a lemon I can't make a skill shot like oh oh maybe I'm just giving too much leeway for new pinball machines but like okay you missed a you miss a skill shot okay can you play a mode can you play a mult you miss a skill shot every now and then so it's okay so it's okay I mean it's not okay it's okay to a skill shot not because they weren't skilled but because the game didn't work right is that the argument dep give me a percentage and I'll tell you if it's okay like like if it's happening 10% of the time it makes some adjustments if it's happening 100% of the time okay that absolutely is a problem with the solution but I would also argue it doesn't mean the entire game is a Limon like that's sometimes when I read on the forums I'm like oh I'm doing the the Robert Downey eye roll like for [ __ ] sake people like you're it's a it's a plunge the ball gets into play okay again not okay will and can be fixed probably but it doesn't mean it's like you know what I've had it I can't I can't deal with this game oh God come on that's just that's my own personal opinion that's all and one that's so easy to argue so for any of you out there that want to argue that yeah that's because I'm making money and I want to go against the man it should be perfect okay take the easy low hanging fruit that's fine I'll take the hard argument the hard argument is it's still [ __ ] a great pinball machine here's my other argument that I want to see what you say about this D I feel pretty strongly about this My worry is and again I don't want to reinforce bad craftsmanship and a level of quality on new pinball products whether it's Stern Jersey Jack Chicago whoever it is however sometimes I worry because something like Uncanny X-Men is almost the epitome of what I look forward to in new pinball machines that is interactive toys and mechs that are industry leading Pathways and layouts that are so so unorthodox and still smooth and satisfying that they are novel and so exciting and fresh and new so the epitome of what I look for in new pinball machines that I feel like we've sorely missed for many titles in the past I fear that if as a hobby we continue to [ __ ] and moan and whine then at some point I fear manufacturers like stering pinball might go all right [ __ ] give them lead Zeppelin give him that fan layout like why let's not take risks designer teams because then it turns out that you know a fan layout's a fan layout we can we've perfected that but when we do this continuation of shots that goes up ramps we don't know what it's going to do with the ramp flat so you know what take your creativity and sit it on the bench because clearly the hobby doesn't want that because it may require more adjustment that's what I fear what do you think am I well do I have a right rightful or I mean I I can't say whether or not they that would be their their respon manufacturers respon about it though well I I don't want to lose that I don't know if that should be the concern of the consumer though let's not let's not bring up issues because we're worried that we'll be punished by lack of creativity especially given that Stern we already talked about stranger things the second fanniest fan layout to ever fan by by them the first being Venom and all the issues they had with that and that was a fan layout a basic layout and I so I don't think it's necessarily indicative of of the design uh originality so to speak versus uh just a poor I again I don't want to necess necessarily say it's poor craftsmanship uh but poor setup uh if nothing else but again this is a you know Stern case in point with throwing games in Costco and stuff they're trying to make this more and more of a thing that the everyday person who does not have the knowledge skills or expertise to work on their own games to buy this stuff so I'm sorry they have to step it up they chose this path they chose the path of more sales and that meant targeting consumers and consumers are not going to be cool with being told that 15% of the time the plunge isn't going to work and that they need to be bending their wire forms it's just I arue this is bed they made themselves it's not the consumer's fault M and so I just tend to be your concerns may be right I'm I will acknowledge that however I am too Pro consumer to say that you should operate in fear of being punished by the manufacturers and so I cannot support a stance that we need to shut up because they might punish us by going back to being basic and I'll I want to make it clear I'm not suggesting that as consumers we shut up uh that's strong I am saying that and I could be wrong in my feeling that I am just concerned because I know how fragile this this industry and this product is and it just scares the [ __ ] out of me because what I love so much I don't want that to go away um it's like a balancing act would I like more basic stuff that's going to be more consistent or am I okay as a consumer risking cooler [ __ ] if there's more more window for that to okay I'm thinking remember Jersey Jack pinball we all fell in love with them The Wizard of Oz and then The Hobbit people like but then we got what happened we started turning our nose up because everybody started saying well they're more basic now they don't put as much in there anymore remember Pirates of the Caribbean when that came out listener right they they teased us with this triple spinning disc they teased us with this trunk that opened up there was still cool [ __ ] in there but then once the rubber me the road Eric Minor had a video with his with his Capstone red Wisconsin hat turned around saying in a somber tone we're pulling some of these cool ass features because we're worried about longterm of them or having to change a part out in the future because one out of so many have shown where I just I worry but I want cool [ __ ] in pinball and I just worry that these companies won't take risks there's a difference between saying bringing up issues versus just completely destroying a game too I I mean your your concern may be founded I don't think so I think it's going to come down to sales and KY X-Men is selling they're going to go all right people want these weird ass layouts and they're going to keep making them that's what I think I think money is what talks and what people wh out on pinside is really not moving the needle great point I could be wrong I I think it's a good point I do but yeah so that's what that's where my mind as hobbyist has been because I'm like geez I just freaking love this X-Men game and I know you know it's got its adjustments but man uh speaking of speaking of being in love I myself and in love with zombie Yeti artwork Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) artwork just love it can't get enough of it people like maybe maybe we're seeing too much zombie oh you now I will tell you to shut up then no go sit down I love this artwork I came across a post that Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) put on I think Facebook social media might have been on Instagram I don't know but uh I don't know if anybody's talked about this I've seen it though and I it made me go can we get one of those patented cre gas no see if it's gasp worthy we see so much of his art I can't gas oh no no you're not one of them one of us of he did this post now I'm I'm a sucker for these posts when they're like you know work in progress post of artwork that I've snapshotted so that I can look at when I'm out of the office and like uh plan for the next time I sit down all this stuff and over the last I don't know I I sat down and looked through my pictures and I'll share some of them work in progress kind of things and there was like 13 picks that he's posted and one was it didn't show it in the preview cuz it was later in the series of of pictures and they were all pinball related identifiably like Deadpool showing maybe some different characters on the Playfield just really cool [ __ ] but one of them was not identifiably pinball because we have not seen that title and it was artwork that I'm assuming made for pinball because all the other or 12 were it was of Bill and Ted Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure or bogus Adventure whatever it may be but it was of Keana Reeves in the was he was Bill yeah he Bill uh with the uh the Grim Reaper uh and some of the other characters but PL it in there at picture number 10 or whatever was a little sneak peek of Bill and Ted now I think that either Jeremy Packer (Zombie Yeti) did this by mistake I don't think he did that but it it could happen I think he snuck it in there because in fact he did a lot of work on a bill ined pinball machine that was going to be made listener but it was canceled or scrapped for some reason thus plus him feeling like he could share this picture uhhuh you see the picture now Dennis what do you think I do you know I have to admit and was it was it black and white originally yep it just like this cuz when I first saw it I didn't know what it was and some of the other pictures were black and white because it was like almost like that's what his illustration before he colored it right and I when I first saw it I have to admit I I knew it was keano Reeves but I did not identify it as being bill in head's Bogus Journey oh really the one with death yeah no because I thought why are there fraggles in the lower corner and then death when I saw him I think I was thinking Billy Bob Thorton from Sling Blade oh no I was just all over the place when I saw this and I thought maybe it's some sort of Montage of movies he likes I don't know but anyway maybe maybe I'm getting these wrong but yeah it was probably for the best that they didn't make it really yeah I think it might have worked it probably would have but it's fine oh so yeah I think it's scrap though I don't think this is something we'll see I would even say Back to the Future should be done over Bill and Ted so you really anti Bill and Ted then no I like I me like I prefer the Bill and Ted movies to Back to the Future personally I'm just saying like I like this is for the best for the manufacturers this is not to me it feels like a pinball theme I I think it would work I think it could work I but I just don't feel like it's loved as like if you're trying to sell the game just off of theme there are so many Better Ones Still that have never been done than this m this are Dungeons and Dragons this would be uh probably preferable The Dungeons and Dragons oh that's the big are we doing just generic Dungeons and Dragons or the Chris Pine movie no not the Chris Pine Movie okay cuz it uh it struggled at the box office even though it's a pretty good movie yeah no I'd St Bill and Ted you know that's the rumor still the rumor is January Cornerstone Dungeons and Dragons Brian Eddy Dwight Sullivan okay well I mean 2025 needed to know what its John Wick was going to be and I guess we do now speaking of John Wick is so you're saying I'm a natural 20 segue into now I didn't yet make any of those advertisements but man oh man there's so many worthy of it like Metallica Beatles gold okay so I guess I have a plus two dexterity vest I'm trying to Dungeons and Dragons him yeah well you killed my familiar for my Dead witch ogre half elf wife sounds like one of your ex-girlfriends I cast magic Missile at the darkness speaking of John Wick new code for John Wick that people are actually raving about thank God 0.91 code where they added lights out think Johnny New Monic but so this lights out I I remember so little Johnny new remember power down mode I just remember there was oh gosh I've only played the game like once that's a good game yeah the game is pretty good the movie I understand why Gomez called back to home base was like can we get out of this there was the dolphin with a with a weird thing on its head yeah all right so new but people are really they're raving this it's oh man it's nice raving is such a strong word no one owns this game a lot of people like this code they they're telling me I look Dennis I'm your president now I'm hearing John wi I'm hearing great things about John Wick I'm a pointing John Wick to my cabinet John Wick sales struggled so much I am amazed that Stern didn't start including a sticker kit so you could just stick guns on Playfield yes you just stick one over the nunchuck went over the sword it's like a shotgun perfectly designed to cover the sword just just all just stickers just a little book of stickers I think competitive players will like this rule uh and it's Effy enough for us hobbyist as well where you qualify you go to the bottom inlanes the Yaga uh inlanes and then with the action button you can press this and you get two times scoring multiplier uh on the all the game scoring and there are motion sensors that illuminate a range of Playfield inserts for 10 seconds then you can add 20 it's it is a very moment-based kind of thing that is reminiscent to the film series uh especially during some of the uh the cut sequences of the fighting in the clubs uh and and different things so yeah it's it's pretty phenomenal it's cool there was also new code for Uncanny X-Men v87 that was really Hefty a really Hefty one that owners have said was very much needed but still more uh more to come but at 087 still have High Hopes I still H I think I still like that layout more than jaw's I think it's my favorite layout probably since maybe since Foo Fighter like I love that layout all right new code also for elvar House of Horrors lead Zeppelin and Foo Fighters they all got code updates for the expression speaker lighting upgrades and ah yes yeah other General adjustments as well especially elvirus House of horse got some other extra stuff but check that out all right let's talk about American pinball our favorite company insert eag pin pin is over all right now is it now pin giving the pin giving yeah I don't know a cornucopia of inventory we're sitting on Cornucopia that sounds like something that uh what's this what's the poop monster oh no sooie soie that's su's day let suie have his back off this is me and Granny's holiday okay so American pinball they remember they retired officially up in the rafters October Fest speaking of October and so they got rid of they retired that then some news came out that Houdini and legends of ohala were going to be retired yes I actually covered this on the last episode of eclectic Gamers podcast we were going to cover here a lot of people did we were I think it was just the way it was presented to us dealers cuz there are dealers out there now that not that they they have seen uh you know myself as a dealer give information out to Mass public but their way of doing it is as soon as they get information they run to like nap arcade or they run to you know and try to get it out there uh so that's what dealers are doing now and they they messaged us dealers and said hey they did say something to the effect of we're wrapping up Houdini and legends of Valla Ellie deluxes or whatever I get so messed up with those uh models over there for Legends of aala but then they followed up with dealers to clarify some things I'm not going to read this for btim but I give you some of the information that was included because then we've seen people report on it and then we saw Carrie Hardy just obliterated the company um about just decisions and different things so American pinball comes out to to the dealers and says look we're going to clear up some things about this only October Fest has been retired let's make that clear okay uh we would also like to clear up the mistake of inadvertently that we did in our distribution communication uh a week or two ago the word retire was used incorrectly that's on us in reference to Houdini and legends of ahala they're not being retired right now we do have they gave a number of houdin that are still in the production line for the remainer of the year and legends of aala the limited edition they said to reiterate is limited so if we make all of those at some point and they're no longer in stock it's just it's not going to return to the line thereby retaining the value of the product for those purchasing it um however we do continue to run the classic versions of those games um and we'll review the status of that next year um let's see also talked about pricing they said we are not tiing those games so there's still um still a pricing threshold that you have to meet you cannot go under that I did find interesting though they talked about the map it's map minimum adverti pricing is not in effect for October Fest because they have officially retired it so dealers can sell October Fest for whatever the hell they want to since it's officially retired now that's something that I don't believe other manufacturers do like Stern if they stop making something they still hold dealers to the agreement of you know map pricing or MSRP uh so you know they said thanks for they'll continue to support October Fest uh they're going to be at aappa Etc and then they also said they they wanted to let everybody know that you know recent videos out there that are presenting inaccuracies and misinformation they want to let everybody know that those parties did not formally reach out to American pinball to ask any questions for clarification prior to doing their videos so they said we just want to let you know it's not like anybody reach out to us ask us these questions for us to present to them the correct information that they were worried about so for further analysis on this story to dive deeper why don't uh yeah why don't uh people if you guys are interested in this let's uh there's your information there's there's your news I think Dennis and I are going to dive deeper uh as an official Club member you can hear us do so right now let's talk about Chicago gaming company want to okay you know they're they're running fast over there they're running a tight shift they they've recently announced over the last month or so last couple weeks that Cactus Canyon that enhancement package they're estimating that to be early 2025 uh and then Pulp Fiction L's where's my Pulp Fiction uh production cgc has actually made some social media com comments and posts and then some of those comments they said quote we're shipping our first batch internationally in November that is of Pulp Fiction nelli and North American games will start shipping in December end quote so they plan on uh running internationally here in November starting those North America starting in December and then finishing wrapping up production of Pulp Fiction L's in the spring of 2025 they're aiming February marchish then they will gear up for mm R uh the term Gear Up can can be interpreted in different ways uh timeline wise I don't know how long gear up means but does that mean immediate or does that mean another year while we're prepping for that I don't know um but that's the recent updates it's still I mean as of March of 2025 it's going to be two years yes it's quite some time it's been two years flipping out pinball if you guys are subscribers to their YouTube channel uploaded a Monster Bash remake Ellie game tutorial from Joel engleberth everybody likes the Joel tutorials uh so go check that out Turner pinball in the news they sold out all 100 pre-orders of their ninja Eclipse pinball machines this uh this young young company with their first game Ninja Eclipse sold out congratulations Turner pinball Dutch pinball always in the news here as of late with their TPX we haven't heard much about Alice's Adventures in Wonderland post Expo for better or worse but now people are already talking about Back to the Future Back to the Future there's a rumor from Canad pinball podcast that Barry from Dutch pinball has now been meeting and discussing having that Back to the Future pinball machine contract manufactured by Stern Pinball or Jersey Jack pinball or other because with such a big licensed property there just is no way to efficiently produce the number of units at the Quality you need and the time you need for like they basically that's a big bite you took and you might need help chewing it so the rumor um from can pinball podcast is that Barry has been speaking with other manufacturers to see if they would be interested in contract Manufacturing for them or maybe more than that maybe more than just merely contract manufacturing actually transferring the license terms over in their entirety that is with Barry probably still getting you know uh a per game what do they call that uh commission I guess a commission royalty kind of thing um so uh this media Source was saying maybe it makes more sense find financially for Barry just to make a shitload of money by not even touching a thing because it's reported out there that there's not even a Whitewood for Back to the Future like there there's there's nothing right now uh so people are like well if Stern took it over would what about Keith Ellen we've heard Keith Ellen really likes that theme would that sell even better so but we've also heard that Stern said that they didn't like the design team didn't want this game I struggle with this rumor uh Jersey Jack has never done contract manufacturing have they no but I'm not saying they would St hasn't done it in years why wouldn't they just wait Barry out and get the license after he lost control of it good point good point the only reason that makes me think there might be something to this especially with the Stern Pinball is that Joe camman cow is tied to it that's the one thing that makes me believe that you know cuz I remember we talked about do have the he used to Anymore Joe isn't buddies with Seth I don't think you need to be like I think Joe cow uh was smart because when he did went over there and got that or helped them with that whole license and everything uh do all reported of course but the rumored license back to the future helped them uh get that I always thought like that's kind of weird there's something I wonder going on but maybe the long game was old cam cow saying you know maybe we shift back over to manufacturing this sucker in the states by Stern Pinball who can get this job done fast it's interesting I don't know yeah I don't know and I should clarify I don't actually don't know if Joe is buddies with Seth or not I have no idea um might be I old smoking buddies or something you never know I I have no idea um I don't know it just seems weird it seems extra weird if it's Jersey Jack I really struggle to imagine that they no history of contract manufacturing uh they're much faster than they used to be about producing games but we've heard that purportedly they have so many other big licenses that make sense for them to do instead of touching this Stern would be the most likely one and I would believe that Barry would be trying I just if I were Stern I mean they get their licenses so many years in advance I would just think they're like why would we deal with this guy why not just wait is he just going to keep reupping it to not build them and not make any money would the company even allow it I think it would make total sense for them if they say to themselves hey we we will acknowledge that we kind of [ __ ] up not securing this Behemoth license when we could have now this is our second opportunity if his little cut royalty you know the add-on is kind of small enough to say this is our second chance let's not [ __ ] this up again let's absolutely if he's only wanting like we can make him a rich man at $50 a machine here let's do that immediately I I still think think you put this license way higher on a pedestal than it deserves I me and the rest of the industry I guess whatever uh if that was true then Stern wouldn't have said no in the first place have been taken data has been acred you can poll and acrew and collate as much as you wish I like Po I could I could easier I could more easily see Stern going and having this conversation with Jersey Jack about getting Harry Potter than this that's the only license bigger in my opinion right now all right speaking of Jersey Jack pinball they haven't contract manufactured anything but I wouldn't rule it out uh okay but for this particular project I don't see it happening it is interesting to note that their production updates on Avatar CE I thought they were like mid November is when they were going to start uh building and shipping some Avatar CES um I did reach out for an update it sounds as if that is true but they're going to ship to International first so that will put Avatar CE production and even subsequently shipping in the US mid to late December if not possibly January and I don't know why I was like wow it's just further out than I thought um especially on the title like Avatar because that like what do they build now I guess they're starting the line for CES cuz avatars haven't the Le's they've built those for over a month now they've maybe there's more Elton John demand that that is a possibility I suppose uh so I don't it it brought up a really interesting question to me Dennis where I remember in the past it was really big for like Stern and pinball they would get games in containers and going overseas because it took about two weeks to go overseas so they they would land about the same time that the uh the domestic ones would land right but other manufacturers following suit I'm starting to wonder if that's a good decision that is getting games overseas first when it's going to take you over a month after that even to start the US that means they that means you are prioritizing overseas sales which is fine if that's what you want to do however one could argue that the bulk the major Focus population of your consumer base is most certainly not only the United States but I would argue probably the United States is larger of a consumer base for your particular product than that of Canada Europe Australia and everything else non us combined would you agree or disagree I would agree okay so if that is the case my question for us to discuss is do these manufacturers have the order of their production shipping destinations wrong I think well I think I think something I think we should discuss that for our members if you're an official Club member the pinball show you can go listen to that now for further analysis on this story and a deeper dive into this question go to patreon.com the pinball show and sign up today and thanks for the continued support Happy Thanksgiving the screaming go Club Dennis it's time to thank these turkeys that are the closest to us these are the VIP turkeys oh I want to thank personally sweet sweet succulent Rodney he's our Bobcat now if if if Rodney or the Bobcat aka the Bobcat uh if they were a Thanksgiving feast or we did this already didn't we yeah we we made them dishes yeah we did make them dishes dishes of course of course you can't think of anything different I can't think of anything different for um let's see all right so I'll I'll put a Twist on it for you okay which family member would he be oh for the extended get together yes I'mma shoot that [ __ ] yeah I I I think I think he's got to be he's got to be the southern Uncle I okay not because of the Rodney Rodney that we know but because of the character Bobcat yes because Bobcat now I don't know if Bobcats are native to the southern parts of the United States but the willingness to shoot one even whil it is on one's wife feels very Southern to me oh shoot that [ __ ] attack my wife wife mhm I think it is Southern Uncle what does Southern Uncle drink I think he drinks I think he drinks cheap beer old old English or something could uh maybe a bourbon oh like a more refined Southern what about like a wild turkey like a whiskey to go with the turkey wild turkey okay so he's the questionable Southern uncle that says some things that make you go oof you look around o who's I going to offend okay I want to thank Steve what about Steve we got to thank Steve in the bubble bee bu oh I think Steve is the the the city slicker you do I think so I think he comes in from his big you know big city living uh he drives he drives like an Audi which to him is just a classy nice car but he doesn't think too much of it's just a high quality German engineered car but boy when he rolls up to the to the family festivities people like oh there's pretentious ass big city Steve that's who I think he's got a little Autobot sticker on the back of that Mercedes yeah it's just like he doesn't think too much of it but he has to know that his presence may be interpreted a bit differently at The Family Table that's all mhm the poor guy didn't do anything I don't know if I'm maybe projecting here now all right uh okay thank you rob for the continued uh support of the pinball show is a screaming goat Club member you are our Panther the panther yes this one this one's tricky this one's trickier he's probably the really silent brother yeah kind of very very masculine but yes he's got the he's got the best mustache of everyone there absolutely not overdone though he's not super much cheeso but you know that uh he me some business MH that guy's good okay I like that is you say he's the brother yeah I mean it depends which family member's perspective we're think we're thinking of I know if he's the brother or if he's actually brother no maybe maybe the brother-in-law but I felt more the brother Frank seemed more like the brother-in-law a poor Falcon swooping in there oh never never not really part of the family but hey it's Frank one of those like hey [ __ ] Frank's here Frank okay Frank thank you for the continued support the Falcon I'm trying to still I need some more with the brother-in-law Frank well this is a you know he's he's probably maybe tries a little too hard It's Kind like he's got thisy and you know this is this is a family doesn't have that level of energy so Frank wants to fit in but he just so he's he just tries a little too hard stuff yeah yeah yeah I mean he's just like whoa yeah would you show me how to work the tractor later I see he he brings up the the the Tyson Logan fight and stuff like he wants to yes he like whoa it was way closer than I thought it'd be yeah okay Frank come on no one thought it was going to be close we got to thank Dave too he he's our resident Shaker motor he's been here from day one we love you we love you Dave yeah he's probably the caterer the caterer yes this isn't a family that makes their Thanksgiving they brought it in four days he always get balls busted every time we got animal-based nicknames and he gets the [ __ ] object that's you get for making him a machine it's every example lame it's just how it is it's just how it is wasn't he last year I think he was the the uh the candy yams or something that or the cranberry sauce I don't I think he was the cranberry SAU poor oh Dave okay so Dave's the caterer he's the guy who has to work Thanksgiving does he have a trimmer too carry the bowl of mash potatoes with the trimmer [ __ ] I'm go to whip them with my tiny head Now Dave has a tiny hand too so it fits take my strong hand I made them by hand oh man all right Joe thank you for the poor picture Dave now with the little hand Joe thanks for the continued support FOX I think Joe's like the uncle everybody wants to hang out with that always likes watching football with drink a couple bear with yeah see he doesn't even want to be at the kitchen table though he wants to have because the game's on like why AR we having Thanksgiving in the living room yep doesn't like Joe's always cool regardless he doesn't even have to be like have the the most popular clothes or anything it's just Joe Joe's cool everybody wants to hang out with Joe yeah that's definitely he's the he's that Uncle what about Charlie the Bell Charlie might be the he might be the cousin that tries to get everyone to go outside and play football oh the oh yeah the smoker smoker but it's just like it's just like we got we got we got to work off those candy AMS we're going to play the we're going to play the you know the touch football game in the front yard which of course after two minutes descends into fullon unpadded tackle football oh man and all that family melodrama is played out in blood oh yeah one of the comes in cry he hurt me and that's how he got to be known as the bell cuz that's you always someone's Bell got rung during that during that friendly game I still like that he's smoking sigs out there yeah he's got his pack of mar bar I like that he's like he's maybe one of the cousins that's older than all the other cousins so he's sporting like a wispy mustache but they still make him sit at the kids table because there's no space at the big table he's like I'm 28 he like it doesn't matter stable for life like you're Julie's [ __ ] bastard kid let's not lie you're still a kid we don't want your ass up here oh and he smokes menthols he has to oh menthols okay all right and none other than I think the dude William thank you for the continued support I think William is the patriarch of the family I think maybe he's not the grandpa because William's not old but as a person but the dude he's he's wise uh he's the I think he's the patriarch of of the family how was your meeting Mr lowski okay the old man told me to take any rug in the house he's the one that carves the turkey is what I'm saying yeah okay yeah somebody the one in the in the what uh Rockwell painting yes the cardigan sweater yeah he's the one that you can he he he has nostalgic smells to him not an Old Spice not a brute but something a little bit uh still dated but still brings back an an okay memory maybe a little bit too much hair product but you know he still carves a meain turkey we still respect him he's just I don't know he's the dude I was wanting to know like the who with the drama queen [ __ ] ant was um well who we don't have we don't have a club member for that yet I know oh but you could be if you sign up to patreon.com you can be the [ __ ] ant patreon.com theep pinball show thank you all for the continued support over on Discord if you are a member you get to privati Discord CH chat we've been discussing they've been talking about Stern remaster titles and what could get remastered they talked about old Bobby mule are getting indicted uh there's been some fun discussion over there come check that out we are doing the happy hour hangout for the month of November here coming up this Wednesday the 20th yes 20th yes 8m Central I got some new bourbon so I'll be drinking that okay maybe I'll be sitting in the hot tub post is already live for those that are the Nordman level or above over at patreon.com that sounds like fun and now on to I was just going to jump right into it I guess I could mhm and now on to pinball oh that wasn't good that's what everyone says about the say that's very fitting I couldn't get the Cadence here I have to roll into it with some amount of I've got a jog into it you practiced so much though I am like a uh po vter or what are those the the the long stick is that the P Vault I need a a nice running start to land the Dismount is what I'm trying to say here they don't land the dismount they just go over the bar and then flop well I'm thinking of the the horse now the Pummel horse speaking of flops it's time for the third favorite uh segment of this show is it trending down I don't know I think it's trending even what a segment it's none other than pinball market trends the B can't take [Music] no I like your style dude cash crab that's tring up cash grabage nice job Bruce you made the pinball Market that's his his most famous call out now well see if he overuses it he might overdo it the only thing can be overdone that still holds true is pinball market trends trending up this week you guys we've been waiting for this I anticipated and analyzed this to happen not only because of the seasonal changes as we roll into the holiday season but even maybe the perception of changing us govern mental no we're not talking politics on here but we are talking market and up this week training very much so is the market numbers don't lie I only report the facts I'm not taking any stance here there or anywhere but as we roll into the holiday season dentist each and every year this is when it starts getting hot because over the summer when it was physically hot people were outside they weren't buying pinball machines as much and everybody was saying the sky is falling chick and little don't want nothing to do with no physical pinball machines well now now Chicken Little is wearing his little precious scarf and he knows that he's going to be bunkered down not only in the Midwest and the north but in parts of the South as well everybody wants pinball for the holiday season for Christmas and even selfishly to justify getting themselves something nice you see it with the releases look at stering pinball they're hitting us up with all kinds of new stuff and sales are reflecting that distribution companies have been very very busy uh already here in November shaping up to be maybe the the busiest month of the entire year and looking back you know what the second hottest month was this year October again I'm only speaking for myself s sales-wise but not only new games pre-owned games the market is hot right now and people are what's weird is people are buying new games quite a bit the the secondary Market is hot as well but you see prices that are amongst the lowest that they've been in years on some of these titles I do worry if I am projecting out as this is a market analysis segment I do worry whenever you do have hot new andbox products that are selling very well and the discrepancy between the sales of those price-wise and the secondary prices of a product that distance or that separation growing that typically is not a great sign for future new and box sales but we're going to ride this train as long as we can right now but new andbox sales are high right now and people are buying the [ __ ] out of used games but they're not paying as much as they did 6 months ago not nearly as much as they did a year ago and so forth and I said that even politically because even though there's a shifting change uh in in the US government or will be in the future based on the recent election just the perception alone I would argue has driven the market a hair even over the last last two weeks am I crazy Dennis I mean I I have no idea and while there is no truth to justify it in my opinion just the perception alone has has qu it's like uh it's it's like when my in-laws come in I got to give them a hard time my in-laws came in they were like hey are are you thankful that Trump is our next president uh because I really worried about your company if he wasn't going to be like what what's that we we've done okay this company has been okay the last four years like have you seen a big boom yet I'm like why would I see a big he's not even our president yet like what just the perception alone sometimes all trening up this week let's talk about the hot games right now the big sellers there are three hot sellers right now any guesses as to what they are Dennis uh Metallica X-Men and Jaws oh Godzilla yep jaw is still selling well but the three that cannot be stopped right now are Metallica uncanny X men and Godzilla and when I say Godzilla I'm meaning all Godzillas but primarily the 70th and the color premium taking an uptick on the Godzilla 70th those are the three hot games I would say number four probably Jaws but uh right now training up are those three hotness games Uncanny X-Men Pros especially I think there could be a situation for myself that we end up selling maybe more Pro uncanny X-Men's than we do premiums and I will attribute this recent as we were talking about adjustments that need to be made and stuff that discussion we have seen a a bigger boom in Pro Sales because of that that is true even though shooter uh launch thing affects a pro just as much as do PR why all string up this week is uh use of a CPAP machine oh Dennis I have to use a CPAP now oh and nothing nothing says trining up like the feeling when you're sleeping of someone putting their hand over your nose and mouth because boy who doesn't love that feeling oh have you ever done the seat horrible just horrible it is the worst feeling ever it's almost like have you ever heard the old the old myth that you can't own a cat when you have a a baby because it'll it'll it ends up like taking its breath and stuff have you seen that you never heard that no I I think it's I I think it's a a certain Regional myth okay yeah that's what this seat feels like it's like one of those Death Eaters in Harry Potter like sucks your soul L like when I'm when I'm trying to Exhale it's like it takes it I can't breathe I can't breathe Nicole she says well but you don't snore so it's so much more pleasant for me but it's horrible you're breathing against something blowing at you too and then if you try to breathe through your mouth it creates like a siphon oh I loath it I lo it but training up I guess is better health [ __ ] we'll give it another week or so but I don't know how long I'm going to last tring down this week is Stern Pinball Sam titles oh the fear is real I mean it's Star Trek it's ACDC it's Tron legacy Iron Man Pirates of the Caribbean and Spider-Man I'm sorry owners of the I'm not sorry because you have great games you you have great machines having said that that uh that Tron and that Iron Man just are not going to hold the value see B Williams original title value whenever the remakes came out poor Medieval Madness dropped Cactus Canyon plummeted I fear that we're going to see the same just again perception just the perception alone that it could happen that they redo ACDC or Iron Man uh or Pirates or SP just the perception that it could happen well already by default decrease the value of your game $3 to $700 how about that M that's big and it's true and I've got I've got Sam games I'm in trouble no because you don't really move your games much you don't have to worry about it and you enjoy them cares I'm in hypothetical trouble oh no also training down this week apparently men's boxing I stayed up Dennis oh I didn't watch I'm the idiot the marketing is trending up because I've seen so many angry people falling for this WWE out non I don't watch Boxing I find it grotesque to some degree same with MMA like it gives me the the tingli where it shouldn't I don't like it it just G it makes me feel gross having said that this marketing worked and the Nostalgia of what Mike Tyson as a figure is in our in the Zeitgeist of my childhood I was Hook Line and Sinker and of always the little blonde douchebag you always want to see get ass kicked so it's like this David and Goliath kind of thing only you're rooting for I guess Goliath I follow me here uh men's boxing is down because I stayed up shame on me for that piece of [ __ ] boxing match not only that one but all the men's boxing throughout that simy cast that was glitchy the last two hours where I felt like I was on AOL back in the you know late '90s I've seen a lot of complaints about that Netflix really dropped the ball being able to stream it man this said over 120 million concurrent viewers like my favorite I think it was on Reddit I I saw someone show an image of screenshot from the uh from the Paul uh Tyson fight and it was a shot from U Nintendo Mike Tyson punch out perfect perfect a gra from the old NZ game oh but man they've got to fix that but I say that it's training down because I seen prior to that Big Mike Tyson title bout I seen in my in my experience of watching boxing which is very minimal I seen the greatest fight I've ever seen in my life and it came from two women Katie Taylor and Amanda Serrano right now if you haven't seen this or anything you're thinking to yourself who gives a [ __ ] if you watched this and you at least accepted the the sport of boxing holy [ __ ] I've never seen two human beings beat there loving [ __ ] out of one another than this this was everything I like was getting squeamish and I was just like holy crap is it are they going to be able to sustain her eye is split open she's wobbling how is this going to is that a headbutt it was phenomenal so much so that it made that Mike Tyson fight substantially worse these two women that I would watch Boxing if it was that but I would I still would not feel good about it because that's some scary stuff right there that's some scary stuff I didn't think women's boxing I was one of those people that's like yeah women you know watching them you know do some sports I'm like I didn't know they were like this completely would be terrified by these Warriors holy [ __ ] you got to watch it didn't it you got to watch it it's nuts and before we go I got to give you a little bit of razzled Dazz a little deal of the week bye bye bye you want to save some money people like I thought I was clever marketing wise and I've got this arcade edition of this Jurassic Park right uh the big the big raw Thrills thing like 16 Grand so they made a home edition it's a little bit smaller actually fit in people's homes and I've been trying to sell it hadn't been selling well cuz I'm primarily a pinball crowd so I I comboed it I bundled it up with a Data East Jurassic Park pinball machine that we got in on trade and I said here's your Jurassic Duo right and I I was trying to package deal it and sell them both and somebody was like hey Zach I want the arcade can I just buy the dad East I'm like [ __ ] all right yeah you can which leaves me still with this home arcade Jurassic Park and it's freaking awesome but I want to replace it in our showroom with a different arcade so I'm going to give one hell of a deal of the week these things were going for over $10,000 one of the coolest statement pieces that you can have in your game collection if you want all kinds of pinball machines why not have one of the cool arcade games of Jurassic Park that you all love at these FCS but one that can actually fit it's the same game but it can fit into your home I marked it all right now it's marked down all the way from like 11 Grand to 7500 I'm going to knock another 500 off for the holiday savings season $69.99 come get you some Zack flip.com and as always I'm just here to report the facts the holiday cheer because numbers don't lie and neither will lie on pinball Market TRS Dennis working people catch you they can always email ecle Gamers podcast gmail.com Oh that's nice of them it is they can email us at the pinball show gmail.com as well follow like And subscribe to Facebook YouTube become a member patreon.com the pinball show oh I did want to tell people this I think in our next show we are going to or between maybe now and then who knows we're going to do a holiday giveaway oh yeah why I don't every month or every year we do this every month where we're we're we're giving away cool [ __ ] I think we should do it again so people all you need to do is make sure that you're following maybe that's a requisite you never know maybe it's not but make sure you're following uh us on Facebook and and ND and all that stuff YouTube flipping out all of that straight down the middle of video series I do maybe you need to follow them like that too and we didn't we never want to forget the oh yeah straight down the middle oh I don't want to say how soon but very soon you'll be seeing the the work that we've been doing for the last couple months and then uh the sponsor of the show is proudly flipping out pinball when I bu my pinb from fing out from Topp got it figured out fing figed out out when I think ofb I think spping out spping out figured out out I Flipping Out product showcase this week is none other than the hottest game of this holiday season it's Metallica remastered Premium Edition get one because uh flipping out pinball we have one two three four I think we have like six six left in this in this run I think and then not until 2025 so get one now uh The Beatles gold we still have some pre-order spots if you want one of those black knight Pro we're getting a couple of those in get one pre-ordered now what about the SPO pinball next game it's got to be coming out soon right maybe it's Back to the Future it's not they used to do contract manufacturing yeah maybe so if you want that next game possibly get our get on our interested list Godzilla 70th Anniversary accessories I got them in stock and you can have them shipped today Avatar La you wants it you got it we got them ready to go Uncanny X-Men I still have L premiums Pros Godzilla 7 they're gone they're gone I've got uh I think four of those three of those something like that next Stern Pinball game next jjp pinball machine get on our interested list today pulp fictions Cactus Canyons John Wicks lights out Foo Fighters Jaws stranger things Venom Avengers Deadpools every I did see Deadpool in Wolverine Dennis I did watch that and I will say I was a fan of the first two not like this huge fan I'm not like this huge Deadpool oh I got he's my not never been that way and thought the first two were just uh be plused they're they're fine they're good I will say the third one my favorite one by far it was good it was hilarious in Parts it was well done uh thoroughly enjoyed that great popcorn movie a little gresa be eatting popcorn but I loved it I loved it I don't we sell everything just come to flippinout pinball.com oh and you can email instead of just emailing Zack flipping out pinball.com here to announce you can also email Greg grr EG at flippinout pinball.com as Greg bone is also why would they do that well they're he's doing sales now too oh yeah he's he's he's always done our text so if you have any that you got from us with any issue email him but now he's also uh doing some sales we'll have a more formal announcement uh to his full-time joining of our group uh but you can email him tooo flipping out with friends Joel I don't have Joel on payroll yet hey Joel want a job uh Joel's a graphic designer I believe I I think so he design watches with Dennis logo actually yeah he's in management now I think so but oh he's the boss man I think he is I think he is streaming the one and only Metallica La this week everyone wants him to stream space hunt well we got to reach out to the French see if they want to we we one over here we do not like you making fun of us Z why would we do this we don't need your US Dollars you don't even want to ship us the first machines flipping out with friends this Wednesday maybe some surprises there too check it out for Metallica remastered Le with UV all right Dennis teach these people something well if you're thinking about getting games for Christmas and you're seeing the prices this is a [ __ ] coin taker at [ __ ] no it's not a coin taker I was just going to say don't sell your spleen to get into the dream just wait for a sale like pin I didn't know where that was going but it took a nice little end there pin pin and always practice safe pinball and in the wise words of Metallica remastered yeah I'm thinking the back it's terrible it's terrible Happy Thanksgiving a s when I feel like I'm winning when I'm losing again n _(Acquisition: youtube_auto_sub, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: f4463563-40b1-4638-b965-cd64da540b3c*