# Ep 33: How To Get A Great Tan with Josh Sharpe

**Source:** LoserKid Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2020-04-25  
**Duration:** 74m 49s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://zencastr.com/z/bxNmniDP

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## Analysis

Josh Sharpe, competitive pinball organizer and Raw Thrills financial controller, discusses the arcade industry's pandemic shutdown, licensing strategy, and pinball's survival. He covers Raw Thrills' production capacity, the success of their TMNT arcade game, the challenges of home market adaptation, and his role in resurrecting the IFPA and World Pinball Player Rankings system during the competitive pinball era.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Raw Thrills produces approximately 40 games per day on their assembly line — _Josh Sharpe stated this directly in response to a question about production capacity_
- [HIGH] Raw Thrills' distribution is approximately 50% domestic and 50% international — _Josh Sharpe provided this breakdown when asked about distribution patterns_
- [HIGH] The Raw Thrills TMNT arcade game was one of the fastest games to reach 1,000 units sold in their history — _Josh Sharpe cited sales history data: 'it's like the fastest game we ever had to a thousand, like the first thousand units out the door'_
- [HIGH] Raw Thrills' production lines were shut down until May 1st due to governor's order (during COVID-19 lockdown) — _Josh Sharpe stated: 'our production lines are down now until May 1st with the governor's order yesterday'_
- [HIGH] TMNT arcade game had superior earnings per square foot compared to much larger Raw Thrills games like Halo — _Josh Sharpe explained the compact 4-player design allowed 6 TMNT units in the space of one Halo cabinet_
- [MEDIUM] Stern pinball also had production lines down due to COVID-19 orders — _Josh Sharpe mentioned 'we share this with Stern, our production lines are down now until May 1st'_
- [HIGH] The IFPA brand rights were originally held by AMOA (Industry Arcade trade group) and were dormant before being negotiated by Josh Sharpe and his father — _Josh Sharpe detailed the negotiation: 'They created it back in the 90s to help operators. And they signed it over to us'_
- [HIGH] Competitive pinball can survive without new games, but new games are needed to expand and bring in new players — _Josh Sharpe's opinion on competitive pinball viability: 'competitive pinball doesn't need new games to exist. I think it needs new games to help expand'_

### Notable Quotes

> "we're kind of in the way our CEO explains it. We're kind of back in startup mode. So, you know, for us, we don't really have anything that we can sell to people right now."
> — **Josh Sharpe**, early in interview
> _Describes Raw Thrills' pandemic business crisis and pivot to product development_

> "it's like the fastest game we ever had to a thousand, like the first thousand units out the door. It was one of the fastest we ever had. Just it blew it out of the box when it started."
> — **Josh Sharpe**, mid-interview
> _Highlights TMNT arcade game's exceptional market success_

> "I think there was an inability, certainly back then, you'd run into, you know, and being a high-level player, you run into, you know, one or two times a year where you were able to get these group of high-class players in the same room to battle it out."
> — **Josh Sharpe**, later in interview
> _Explains the motivation for creating the World Pinball Player Rankings system_

> "the recreation of an arcade experience is much easier, and the recreation of American Pinball experience is impossible"
> — **Josh Sharpe**, mid-interview
> _Articulates why pinball as a mechanical medium is uniquely irreplaceable_

> "I have none of that. Like, I have photo albums that my dad's given to me of me standing and playing, and I don't remember being that young."
> — **Josh Sharpe**, mid-interview
> _Reflects on missing the formative discovery moment that defines many pinball enthusiasts' connection to the game_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Josh Sharpe | person | Financial controller at Raw Thrills, competitive pinball organizer, co-organizer of IFPA World Pinball Player Rankings, son of Roger Sharpe |
| Raw Thrills | company | Arcade game manufacturer founded from Williams/Bally/Midway assets, produces driving and shooting games, expanded into TMNT arcade title |
| IFPA | organization | International Flipper Pinball Association, oversees World Pinball Player Rankings (WPPR) and competitive pinball governance |
| Stern | company | Major pinball manufacturer, shares COVID-19 production shutdown timeline with Raw Thrills |
| Roger Sharpe | person | Josh Sharpe's father, influential pinball figure, worked at Williams/Bally/Midway, helped negotiate IFPA rights |
| Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (TMNT) arcade game | product | Raw Thrills' 4-player brawler arcade game, one of fastest-selling games in their history, strong international and domestic appeal |
| AMOA | organization | Industry Arcade trade group that originally held IFPA brand rights in the 1990s before signing them over to Josh Sharpe |
| World Pinball Player Rankings | product | Competitive ranking system created by Josh Sharpe to allow indirect competition between top pinball players worldwide, predecessor to modern IFPA system |
| Pinburgh | event | Major pinball competition with approximately 400 games, referenced as benchmark for competitive pinball landscape |
| Pinball Expo | event | Historic pinball championship event where top competitive players gathered annually |
| Papa | event | Pinball championship event (alongside Pinball Expo) where top competitive players met in the 1990s-2000s |
| Williams | company | Historic pinball/arcade manufacturer, merged with Bally and Midway, ceased operations in 1999 |
| Bally | company | Historic pinball/arcade manufacturer, part of Williams/Midway/Bally conglomerate |
| Midway | company | Arcade/video game division of Williams/Bally, ceased pinball and arcade operations in 1999, assets led to Raw Thrills creation |
| Gary Stern | person | Leader of Stern Pinball, took Stern public after separating from Sega during 1999 industry contraction |
| Zach Sharpe | person | Josh Sharpe's brother, appeared in Mortal Kombat advertisements as a child |

### Topics

- **Primary:** COVID-19 pandemic impact on arcade/pinball industry, Raw Thrills business model and production capacity, TMNT arcade game market success and licensing value, Competitive pinball history and IFPA resurrection
- **Secondary:** Arcade vs pinball market dynamics and consumer behavior, International vs domestic market appeal for arcade games, Williams/Bally/Midway history and industry consolidation
- **Mentioned:** Home game room consumer preferences and design challenges

### Sentiment

**Mixed** (0.55) — Balanced discussion mixing optimism about pinball's resilience and arcade game licensing success with concerns about pandemic economic recovery uncertainty. The conversation is casual and often humorous, but underlying anxiety about market recovery and business continuity is evident.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Raw Thrills and Stern both had production lines shut down until May 1st due to COVID-19 governor's order (confidence: high) — Josh Sharpe: 'our production lines are down now until May 1st with the governor's order yesterday' and 'I guess we share this with Stern'
- **[business_signal]** Raw Thrills received 200 sets of parts per week but sold only 3 games in the month discussed, revealing massive production/demand mismatch (confidence: high) — Josh Sharpe: 'I know we've been taking in about 200 sets of parts a week, and this month we sold three games'
- **[product_launch]** Raw Thrills TMNT arcade game achieved exceptional market success in first three months, fastest game to 1,000 units in company history (confidence: high) — Josh Sharpe: 'it was like, holy moly. Like, we were surprised at the strength of the license' and 'it's like the fastest game we ever had to a thousand'
- **[licensing_signal]** TMNT license demonstrated strong universal appeal across domestic and international markets, still selling successfully at time of interview (confidence: high) — Josh Sharpe: 'And we're still selling it today' and 'I can tell you on air that once we, when we launched the game, the first, you know, the first three months into selling it, was like, holy moly'
- **[market_signal]** Raw Thrills arcade games (40+ ft footprint) have minimal home market compared to pinball's established collector base, limiting revenue diversification (confidence: high) — Josh Sharpe: 'Not like pinball does. We, our Buck Hunters, you know, get sold a lot through to home game rooms' but games are too large; pinball only needs '3x5 square foot' space
- **[competitive_signal]** Josh Sharpe created World Pinball Player Rankings (WPPR) system to enable indirect competition between top players separated geographically (confidence: high) — Josh Sharpe detailed the creation: 'It was created as a way for the top-level players to be able to indirectly compete with one another'
- **[historical_signal]** 1999 closure of Williams/Bally/Midway led directly to Raw Thrills' creation by right-sized arcade-focused team (confidence: high) — Josh Sharpe: '99, the closure of Williams Bally Midway led to Raw Thrills being created'
- **[business_signal]** Venue reopening restrictions (e.g., arcades in bars prohibited) create unpredictable market demand recovery; consumer willingness to return unknown (confidence: high) — Josh Sharpe: 'I don't know what percentage of moms out there are like, "Ben Heck, no, we're not going to Chuck E. Cheese"' and 'barcades will try and open, and either there'll be... we think we passed these tests and it turns out we don't'
- **[operational_signal]** Restarting manufacturing after shutdown is highly dependent on supplier coordination; missing any part halts entire line (confidence: high) — Josh Sharpe: 'the 99 percent F in purchasing and production. If you're missing anything, you're not building anything'
- **[design_innovation]** Raw Thrills arcade games designed for quick casual engagement (3-minute first play, 10-minute average), contrasts with pinball's learning curve (confidence: high) — Josh Sharpe: 'we only have, you know, for those people that play once, about three minutes. For those people that are willing to invest, you know, most average people play about 10 minutes'
- **[regulatory_signal]** COVID-19 reopening restrictions prohibited arcades in bars, creating existential threat to barcade business model (confidence: high) — Host: 'they were talking down here like a lot of the bars can start opening back up, but they won't be allowed to have arcades in use'

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## Transcript

 thank you for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast this is episode 33 scott we are knocking it out of the park we have done what three episodes in a week this is crazy man i know well i think i don't really have anything else to do except for talk pinball so that's why i keep texting you it's like hey do you want to record hey it works i i don't it doesn't bother me one bit. So I might be a little busier. I've got little old ladies with no hot water. And so I get to get out of the house every once in a while. But I had Friday off. You had Friday off. And our guest is joining us. You want to introduce him, Mr. Scott? We have us, Josh Sharpe, who is not Zach, but he is Josh. And he is part two of the Sharp legacy in pinball. And currently he is the one who is driving the bus on competitive pinball while he works his side gig at Raw Thrills. How are you doing today, Josh? I'm good. I think I'm more like part seven. My dad usually takes up at least six parts. Well, that's just the interview part. I want to do a disclaimer right now, though. Teolis, just because we had him on second to his dad does not mean he's second to everyone else. Oh, man, look at you guys just falling into this. How much did he pay you? Tell me. How much did he pay you? Well, he bribed us by having us on his podcast. There you go. There you go. Well, you want to talk bidets, man. Jeff and Scott, you get those two together. They talk about their tushy for hours on end. Hey, actually, what we did, so speaking since you're in the home business, we actually spent all week ripping out our old toilets and putting in new ones. So that's what I've been doing at home while I've not been working. Dang. nice yeah the porcelain throne wasn't enough for you had to upgrade huh you know what whoever built the house they actually used the crappiest toilets and i use that intentionally they are the worst ever and i'm serious you would try to flush down a tissue piece of paper and it would it would clog so i i got tired of every other day my kids calling is like dad the toilet's plugged well my job though i get called and like check out this toilet it can suck down a golf ball wow i don't know why i'd have a golf ball in their toilet for but okay you know they should check their diet that's not really how fiber is supposed to work i got a one i got a one-year-old i think there's been plenty of uh things larger than golf balls and toilets here lately oh geez i remember my nine-year-old flushed his favorite ninja turtles toy because he thought it was going in a swimming pool, but then he realized as soon as he flushed it, it wasn't coming back, and there was tears for 30 minutes straight. Okay, okay. Wait, that wasn't your kid. That was you. My favorite is the complete roll of toilet paper when I see that. Just soaked up and completely waterlogged and just come on. Come on, children. And of course they leave it there. They don't actually do anything. Once it passes the rim, they're like, I'm out. That's the last job. I'm up and I'm upstairs in my bedroom. I have no idea what went on downstairs. Yeah. To the single people you will never know right now, the frustration of being in the coronavirus as something as valuable as toilet paper going down the toilet as you're running towards it to save it. You never thought in your life you would scream at someone for flushing toilet paper. Okay. We're off the rails already. It's crazy already. do the Monty Python in for something completely different now. Okay, Josh. So give us an update. What have you been up to? Obviously you are in the arcade industry and life has changed radically over the last two months for you. So give us an update on that. Working, uh, working from the home basement now. And yeah, our business, our business is obviously a fraction of, of what it has been. So we're kind of in the way our CEO explains it. We're kind of back in startup mode. So, you know, for us, we don't really have anything that we can sell to people right now. So we're in the process of development of, you know, the next generation of products for, you know, what we're thinking our industry is going to look like. And then, you know, branching out to other avenues, whether it be mobile, console, whatever, to try to pay them bills, guys. It's tough. Now, Rothrills typically has been basically arcade-centric or Ticket Redemption or Dave & Buster's or all those type of things. Do you have a significant home sell market like pinball does? Not, I mean, not like pinball does. We, our buck hunters, you know, get sold a lot through to home game rooms. And I think, you know, our games are so big, the level of buyer it would take to, you know, bring home a twin driving game or one of our bigger environmental games, you know, we'll usually see game rooms of celebrities that have them. But beyond that, they're just, you know, they're expensive and they take up a lot of space. So it kind of limits the ability, you know, for Puma on the Chain, as long as you have a three by five square foot of space, you're kind of okay. What is the future? I know we were kind of talking about coronavirus. Some of the sanctions are kind of being lifted. What's it looking like for you guys when you can start getting back to work? I mean, for us personally, you know, and I guess we share this with Stern, our production lines are down now until June 1st with the governor's order yesterday. and you know for us you know june for you know besides the games we haven't finished inventory we have you know to get our production line back up and running it's tough to know at what rate you know the the market the capacity for the market is going to be sitting at so for example like i'll joke with my wife like on june 1st if they say you can go to chucky cheese you know what percentage of moms out there are like heck no we're not going to chuck you cheese family are you guys crazy that at some point you know i don't know is that like one in four moms is probably like there's no way we're going you know and so that limits your ability now your maximum market is 75 of what it used to be so at some point there's gonna be some new level you know everyone talks about the new normal i think there's also going to be a new normal with respect to the earnings potential based on who's going to be venturing out to these family entertainment centers for entertainment well and the other scary part too is i don't know about up in your neck of the woods but they were talking down here like a lot of a lot of the bars can start opening back up but they won't be allowed to have arcades in use and so it's like well what does a barcade do what when your business is the arcade. Right. I think so much of that is unknown. And I think it's going to be one of those things where, where, you know, barcades will try and open and either there'll be, you know, think it's like, we think we passed these tests and it's like, it turns out we don't, we're back to shut down. And I know like, you know, bowling alleys also have game rooms and, and where, you know, family entertainment centers fall, you know, are they, are they considered like movie theater level of, uh, a venue, I would say we're certainly far from an essential business. So it'll just, I mean, we're just as anxious to find out those answers. It's really hard to speculate because it's kind of unspeculable, speculatable, whatever that word is. It's, yeah, the best thing we can do is just put our heads down and keep developing the best product we can, and then just find a way to push that to the market through some medium. So when you guys are up and running, how many games do you typically produce on your assembly line every day? It's about 40 a day. Okay. That's usually our average. I know that, I mean, I joked that with some of our vendors who we shut down, you know, I know we've been taking in, you know, about 200 sets of parts a week, and this month we sold three games. So the, the ability to, there's going to be some time even on June 1st that, you know, to get the production line up and running, it's, it's what my boss calls the 99% F in purchasing and production. If you're missing anything, you're not building anything. So there'll be some bumps in the road to, to making sure that we're expediting all of our parts back into production to be able to start building again after shutting everyone down so we didn't have to pay bills. And do you have a similar distribution like international and local, you know, 40% international, 60% local or something along those lines? Yeah, ours is really, it depends on the game line. So, you know, depending on the game line, China is a pretty significant portion of our business where we'll actually export kits out to China and they'll build and sell to China and neighboring, you know, neighboring Far East countries out there but it's a pretty uh you know 50 50 domestic 50 everywhere else is about is about where we're at are there certain titles that uh do appeal more outside the states than they do inside the states uh moto gp our our motorcycle game was definitely more europe centric than in the u.s i had not i know it's a huge brand in europe and i had not heard of it when we got the license, I had never heard of it before. And that certainly shows in our sales of that product line. You know, after watching Ford versus Ferrari, I can attest that I didn't realize how big racing was. I mean, this is even the 60s. I mean, racing is a huge thing back there in Europe and stuff like that. And I think here in America, we kind of like, it's just NASCAR. It amazes me. They just set up these racetracks in the middle of the city. When I was in Europe 10 years ago or so, we couldn't go into Monaco because they had the race. The whole city was shut down and was turned into a race course, which I just find unbelievable. They're rocketing around 200 miles an hour on these narrow streets and just missing all these all these buildings by inches. It's crazy to me. I think we we tend to try and grab, you know, as many as many universal licenses as we can. I think Stern went through that when they got the NASCAR license, and you realize it's a big license in the U.S., and then outside of the U.S., which is half their market, it was a tough sell. And that's when you see them making the Grand Prix version of that to be able to satisfy that market. So, you know, you definitely, if you pick a property to do a game with that is kind of centric somewhere, you just limit the opportunity for, you know, the number of units you can move. So let me ask you this, Josh. There's a lot of naysayers out there. You hear the rumors. You hear the rumors of, you know, a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pinball machine coming out. And whether you know that or not, we're not going to ask you that. But we do know that Raw Thrills released a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles game. Does that game have world appeal? Totally. Does it sell? Yeah. Really? For us, and I mean, I told you guys off air, I can tell you on air that once we, when we launched the game, the first, you know, the first three months into selling it, it was like, holy moly. Like, we were surprised at the strength of the license. It was a lower budget game for us, and we were still excited to try an old-fashioned joystick brawler as sort of a new genre for us to enter. We were kind of driving and shooting game-centric. So for us, we felt like any Turtles sales were going to be new sales for us. People weren't choosing between the three drivers we had available at the time. This was going to be a new sale. and I can remember talking to Jody briefly after we launched our game that they got to get this license because there's some power behind the brand without a doubt, and we're still selling it today. I remember the first time I saw it because I typically, when I go to these kiddie gambling places, I'm usually not interested in most of those things because it's get 500 tickets and you get a whistle or something like that. But I looked over and I saw a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle game and I thought, hey, I want to play this. This looks like a lot of fun. And so it took me back to, you know, my 8 to 12-year-old days when you went into the arcade and you saw that brawler game and you'd never seen anything like it. It was like, wow, this is really cool. And it's certainly not – it's not really skill intensive. You're just smashing buttons, but it's just so much fun. There's something about it. Yeah, I mean, just looking back, and I have all of our sales history here, and it's like the fastest game we ever had to a thousand, like the first thousand units out the door. It was one of the fastest we ever had. Just it blew it out of the box when it started. That is awesome. Well, and I look at, so I have a nine-year-old. He's going to be 10 here in December. And I grew up on the Konami games, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles number two, which was on the Nintendo, which was called the arcade game. and then Turtles in Time. I love those games. And then my son has grown up with the newer generation, the Nickelodeon. We have the full series on our digital library. And so when we went to a bowling alley and saw this game there, that's the only thing he wanted to do. And so we played Ninja Turtles for 30 minutes, plus just dumping quarters in this thing. It's a fantastic game. It's just, it's cool to see something, something so predominant from my childhood is now reflecting on my own child's childhood. For us, it was, you know, with all of our games being so big, the ability for that game to be, especially in FECs, where really people are usually on timed play and racing around to play as much as they can, and you're left with, like, playing anything that's open. It was a high-capacity game because it was a four-player game in a small footprint. so the you know the earnings in that game were amazing because you were able to get four dollars at a time you know per play for a lot of the uh a lot of the metrics that those fbcs use is earnings per square foot so you know our giant halo four player game that's like an 11 foot by 11 foot you know uh square feet uh space it takes up you know you could fit six turtles in the space that that happens and the earnings per square foot were off the chain for Turtles for sure. Well, if you can find a way of scaling that down a little bit, I would be able to sneak it next to one of my pinball machines because I love having a little bit of variety in my game room. But right now, I think that would hit the ceiling. I'll tell you what, man, we're looking. I would love to be able to offer that content. We have a great 45 minute game there with a ton of fun that we're actively working on trying to get that into the home one way or another Alright, well shoot me a message and I'll be your first buyer. You got it, deal Well, and they're wonderful games, they really are My son and I, it always seems like we live in a small town and even our Walmart here has a Rothwell's Jurassic Park shooter. And we've dumped enough quarters in that team to beat the game. And it's just, it's a blast to play. I got my son addicted to Halo. As soon as he saw the Halo game, we had to play that when we were out at a bowling alley out in the city. It just, they're fun games. And if you could bring them to a home market, that would be amazing. Yeah, there's a little, you know, for us, the balancing act in terms of, you know, our games are really focused on providing fun to a casual player quickly because we know we kind of only have, you know, for those people that play once about three minutes, for those people that are willing to invest, you know, most average people play about 10 minutes. So, you know, you'll get two or three continues, but there's definitely a depth component to home gaming that I think we'd probably have to dive back into our software a little bit to make the longevity of that home game ownership a little bit more appetizing. But But it's all being discussed daily on our now Slack channel that was created when everyone went home. You know, the amazing thing, though, about my game room is that, yes, it's certainly pinball heavy, but I also have an air hockey table. I have a shooter game. I have one of those slide things. and having just something that people come down. Some people are intimidated by pinball because really a lot of times, and we talked about this last time with your dad, is that a lot of people younger than our generation never saw pinball in the wild. They never did. But when they see something like a button master or some sort of cooperative play, they immediately are drawn to it because they think, I can do this. and it's not going to, it's not above my skill set, which is basically nothing, but they, they always go to those first, which is interesting. Yeah, I'd agree with that. I see that when we hosted my son's birthday party here a few years ago and, and I've never had to show so many kids how to start a game and it's like, all right, hit the start button. And they're just standing there. It's like, oh, now you're going to, you pull this and then the ball goes in and it's like, they pull it and the ball's just bouncing around. It's like, oh no, now you have to use these buttons on the side and then that hits the ball back up and it's like oh my god come on i was like you play an xbox controller that has how many buttons on it well my favorite is there's a flashing light button that says start and they stare at the machine for 30 seconds saying how do i start this my favorite my favorite is the comparison to the xbox and playstation controllers where like now there way too many buttons for me to know what going on and to see these kids struggle with like a start button and two buttons it's it's awesome we even like the jjps though too when you haven't touched any for a little bit it flashes in big letters on the screen it shows you what the start button looks like press here and then pull the plunger this way you know but i guess that's what That's what we've come to, right? That's right. Now, Josh, you have been in the gaming industry your entire life, basically. All of it. Every second. And so how – see, that seems to be the dream. Anybody in my generation, I guarantee they watch Silver Spoons and they saw all the games that they had in their big room and they thought, that's awesome. I would love to grow up like that. But you did. Like how was that? it was it was as awesome as you would think the uh like i think i've told the story before but like the only thing i i missed out on was was the story of finding pinball that everyone seems to have you know my dad talks about his memory of finding pinball in in college or whatever and like i don't have that story of like you know i was in a bowling league with my dad when i was eight and I was waiting for him to finish. And I saw Dr. Dude over in the corner and I just walked up to it. And there was, you know, that story that seems to be like just permanently embedded in at least the people that maintain pinball in their lives and obviously had a strong enough hold that it carried their interest forward. Like, I have none of that. Like, I have photo albums that my dad's given to me of me, you know, standing and playing and I don't remember being that young. So it's, yeah, it goes back before all memories that I have. Over the years, being involved with Bally Williams and Midway, you know, them both being in video games and in pinball, there's a lot of diversity in your childhood. I know that they talked about you were in the Mortal Kombat, you and your brother Zach were in the Mortal Kombat advertisement growing up. Where have your tastes land? Do you have a more preference over one over the other? Pinball versus arcade games? Yeah. I mean, I would say definitely we're a more pinball-leaning family. I mean, I work not in pinball. I work on the arcade side. But, you know, I spend just as much time on the hobby side with pinball. I know that, like, I loved NBA Jam when I was a kid. That was kind of my jam. I had my junior high partner in crime, Bert Tong. We'd go to the arcade and play four-player games against anyone who was willing. So, you know, I definitely loved arcade games as well. And, you know, through a lot of the relationships my dad had when he was back at Williams Bally Midway, you know, we were getting so much in the home console space. Through the Midway games that were coming on the console, he was getting, you know, other games from that same publisher and whatnot. So, you know, we were often at home playing with Zach and my dad and calling the Nintendo Power Hotline for help. I mean, we were definitely a game family. And I think, you know, as I've gotten older and realized, like, how special pinball is as a medium, I think it's stood the test of time to me as something that is special, more special than, you know, arcade games where, like, now you have, like, name cabinets. The recreation of an arcade experience is much easier, and the recreation of a pinball experience is impossible. Yeah, absolutely. You're right. It's a, you cannot simulate a pinball machine. You can try, but it's just not the same thing. Totally. So who was your team on NBA Jam? We, I mean, we played the Bulls a lot because I was a kid. It was a kid in Chicago with the Jordan years. It was tough to pass up, but I would always type in ROG and then 8148 and play as my old man in tournament edition, at least. uh-huh okay so so that was a code i i didn't know about this code oh yeah oh yeah and now working with uh you know a lot of the wrong too many of the raw thrills guys were around back in the old midway days so it's it's hilarious to to be able to enter codes and be like oh my god i work with that guy you know there's some 30 year old version of himself in the game nice that's awesome my my daughter seriously the other day we were playing a game and she shouted out boom shakalaka Which is funny because I don't think I've ever played NBA Jam with her, but it was hilarious since she's five. If I wasn't as pinball obsessed as I was, I'd be getting one of the NBA Jam one-up machines for sure for my basement. Oh, yeah. You'll just have to put it in your bedroom. Right. Okay, but that's pretty tight. I have the four-player TMNT game, and getting four people around that is pretty tight. Yeah, I can believe it. I can believe it. You need a raw thrills NBA jam. There we go. It's like you're playing basketball with your buddies because you're so close, you're sweating on each other. I don't know. Being from Utah, I'm like – I can respect the Jordan years, but I'm like, man, if Jordan wasn't around, I think Utah would have been a powerhouse back then. There's a lot of teams through the 90s that if only it wasn't for Michael Jordan. Well, Barkley didn't get his ring. Those Knicks teams were awesome back then. The Reggie Miller Pacer teams. Yeah, all the oxygen in the room was sucked out of basketball by one guy. I'm enjoying reliving all that with the Last Dance documentary going on right now, for sure. It just wasn't one guy, though. It wasn't one guy because look at Jordan. He left and they came back with the Washington Wizards, and take what you will from it. But he had a great team that surrounded him, too. Yeah, no, well, it's absolutely true. And that's what's amazing when I hear more about the last dance is that they were basically planning on ending the team. They knew that was the last year, which just shocks me. It's like, why would you ever try to break up the team? You guys are dominating. Egos, egos. Yeah. Look at the Golden State Warriors right now, man. Well, the Golden State Warriors went through a similar thing where you could tell last year that they were running on fumes. They were still dominating, but they were impending for a breakup. You know, though, if you would have told 12-year-old Josh that in 20 years that the LA Clippers were going to be becoming a dominating team in the NBA, I would have laughed at you. I don't know. I still laugh a little bit about it. It's like, why wouldn't you change the name? It's the stupidest name. Like why you're like, I want to, I want to name a team where you could brand it and sell it to everybody. Let's name it the Clippers. Like who won that? Who won that marketing pitch? I don't get it. Oh, you'll have to read the, this is a total side tangent. I apologize, but I can't remember what it's called now, but there's a story of the gentleman that bought the LA Clippers. The one that's famous for the things that happened. What? 10 years ago of his racist comments. You got to go. Yeah. Sterling. You got to listen to it. It's ESPN, like, Off the Court or something like that. It's the Sterling story. It's only five. It's a podcast. I know you guys are listening to podcasts. So just go download it. It's very, very interesting. It makes you wonder what the heck happened for this guy to even stay in business as long as he did. But, all right, I'm going to bring it back onto the rails here. Josh, with pinball ending, almost ending in 1999, what do you think made it survive? I know we also, you know, Stern was able to keep it alive, but how was that even accomplished, especially at that point in time? I mean, I think, and I mean, from the IFPA side, I've seen it with our organization during any sort of like dark times. Like the number of pinball, competitive pinball doesn't need new games to exist. I think it needs new games to help expand and bring in, you know, new people that need to find it. But, like, to me, competitive pinball, you know, survives through all of that anyway. They're just – and you see it now with games like how many games at Pinberg are, you know, of the most recent vintage? You know, out of the 400 games they use, you know, maybe 30, 20? You know, how many new games have been made the last three years? that, I mean, at some point, you know, the difference between, like, new games entering the market or not, there's such a rich history of games available. It's kind of just a really small percentage of new equipment that ends up being added to sort of the landscape. I mean, as far as, you know, the industry side of things, I mean, I think the closure in 99 was more about public companies needing to show certain things to their shareholders. And, I mean, I see that with, you know, Gary taking Stern public, you know, away from Sega at that time. And really, you know, 99, the closure of Williams Bally Midway led to Raw Thrills being created. So, you know, there's a group at Raw Thrills that were into arcade, And it's like, hey, you know, there isn't a big enough industry here to carry, you know, what's needed for Midway shareholders to to, you know, make the dollars they need to. You know, they were they were focusing on on mobile and whatever at that time. But there was certainly enough money to be made in the industry for a a smaller, right sized company within it. Now, you you talk about competitive pinball. Now, you're really the driver behind the, I guess, the codification and the resurrection of the IFPA. Tell us about that and what was your driving force on that? I mean, it all started, I've been playing competitively since 93 and have really, People have taken my quote out of context in terms of like, I really love playing pinball competitively far more than I like playing pinball for fun. And I still love playing pinball for fun. You know, I'll play every day down here in my basement. But I think there was an inability, certainly back then, you'd run into, you know, and being a high level player, you run into, you know, one or two times a year where you were able to get these group of high-class players in the same room to battle it out. It was clear that that was not happening enough to satisfy, you know, my competitive urges and the competitive urges of many of the other top players. And, you know, that's kind of how the World Pinball Player Rankings system started. It was created as a way for the top-level players to be able to indirectly compete with one another. So while we may back then, we may only meet at Pinball Expo and Papa and that's it for the year, there was no chance for any other way for us to directly play against each other. But now there was a way for us to earn ranking points through our own local play and be able to find some way of comparing myself to people in Europe who maybe didn't even go to Expo or Papa and I had no idea who they were. So that really opened up the system of finding a way to indirectly compete with everyone was really like this launching pad for, I think, growing interest in the sport. And, you know, shortly after seeing that, like, the world ranking system was something that, you know, was moving beyond me tracking results that I could find on the Internet into an Excel document. And the, you know, we started getting people who were into volunteering their time and also competitive pinball fans like Brian Shepard on our side who moved everything over to our website and moved all of the score recordings to a database that, you know, I talked with my dad about sort of helping. And rather than there being a ranking system from some kid sitting in his cube, and I was Roger Sharp's son, but I wasn't much more than that back then, was using my dad's help to reach out to the then owners of the IFPA brand who had left it dormant. And back then, the two world championships that were being run in the 90s were Papa and IFPA. And the IFPA brand was sort of left dormant. and we reached out to them about negotiating those rights for us to be able to use that brand and sort of run the world pinball player rankings under it. And my dad was able to work out a deal with the AMOA, who was an industry trade group that still had the rights to the IPA. They created it back in the 90s to help operators. And they signed it over to us and we started rolling with that ever since. shortly after the world rankings came out. It was probably a few months that we kind of, we knew, I felt comfortable that we had something here. You know, a lot of the responses from the high level players were insanely positive back then and off we went. So I'm a very average player. And to get to that next level, to that B and A division, what are the things that you would tell me to become a better player? play a lot is by far the number one number one thing and not only play a lot for fun but play put yourself into as many competitive situations as possible and I feel like the you know local the backbone of local events are really key for this you know it's one thing to sit and blow up games in your basement and you have a ball one and you hold start you start over there's something to learning to deal with having to execute in moments as a competitive player that you very rarely have to put up the best game you've ever played in a tournament. You're more often than not put into situations where, you know, if you can just start this one feature, you've won the match. And you may not even needed to have had a good game to reach that feature. But the moment in time that you're trying to control the ball to then make the shot to trigger this feature, like those are the moments that will take you to the next level in terms of being able to execute to your potential, you know, in tournament play. I kind of want to expound on that too, because, you know, it also teaches you not only to have a plan A, I think a lot of times when you're playing in your basement or whatnot, you always focus on plan A. When a tournament situation, you have to have a plan B and a plan C. So if you're not hitting the T-Rex shot on Jurassic Park like you should be, you know you've you've got another opportunity of me going for the chaos letters because you're shooting ramps or you know you're shooting other stuff a little bit better um that was just another thought that came to my mind while you were talking about yeah and now the situational play and situational strategy is a huge you know if i go up to adam's family and and all i do is is want to tour the mansion because that's how i've been playing the game since i was 12 you know if you're down by you know nine million going into your last ball you don't need the tour to tour the mansion to win so you start bringing you know other things into play like you know side ramp and swamp a couple times and you're done like so and you wouldn't think of that if you were just you know one track plan a in mind that brings up a good point too because i was i was playing in a tournament once and we're playing on stargate and it was like i was behind by a million but i realized if I just hit the skill shot perfectly, I wouldn't have to play my ball. I didn't because I was the fourth player. And so I was I was able to hit the skill shot. And if I wasn't thinking I would have breezed right past, I would just plunge to start playing. Right. And so it gives you other ways to to realize, hey, there's more than one ways to skin a cat, I guess is the saying. So, yeah, and I think, you know, obviously, in order to formulate those plan A, B's and C's, which are so important, you know, you need to know the rules of the game. And I think that's where, you know, the Internet and the tutorials and everything that's available out there, the deep dives into game rules, like you used to have to play the game to figure that out yourself. I can remember back in the 90s, like Pinball Expo, the tournament was always on the newest released game. You were literally kind of redefining your strategies while waiting in the qualifying line, watching the people that were playing, talking to the other people in line. I mean, you had no outlet to be able to gain that knowledge outside of physically playing the game in an event. it makes me chuckle too because i'll have people come over to my basement and i'll and i can sometimes overwhelm them i feel like i've got three very basic games i've got attack from mars i've got monster bash and i've got world cup soccer 94 and you know some world cups the best for beginning people i have one and it'll never leave i love it but i take them you know they they saddle up to monster bash right now because it's the shiniest brightest one that gets your attention how do i play this well you shoot all the shots i don't know how to put it you know because in that game you're just trying to obtain the monsters and so they're like well how do i obtain a monster and you start explaining like each ramp is the bride and the orbits are the werewolf and they look at you because they don't know what an orbit is they don't know what a a vuck is you know and so you just they look at you and they say how do you remember all this And you like and it changes from each game to each game right Right I actually I love on purpose I kind of don explain the games down here to my kids And I've really enjoyed, I'll watch them play. And I enjoy watching them figure stuff out. It's like the highlight for me when I can hear, you know, Colin explaining to Charlotte, I have a Monster Mash also. And it's like explaining to her how, you know, they understood how to get Frankenstein and Dracula. The stuff that's kind of really easy to understand, like hit the Dracula targets enough time and you get it in the hole for Dracula. And my daughter was not understanding how Bride worked because she's physically over on the left ramp. So she didn't understand that you needed both ramps to start her mode and to hear, you know, my son had figured that out. and hear him, my eight-year-old son, explaining to my six-year-old daughter how to get it started is just like, you know, I'm in heaven listening to that stuff. So that brings me to the next point is that so you were able to start this thing because you didn't have that, at least you still have that itch for competitive play. And so you started up the IFPA or resurrected it. That's a lot of work for you. So at some point, I know that you get beat up a lot with all the rule changes and everything you're trying to do to redefine things. At some point, I would say, man, like these ungrateful brats, why – like I'm doing this for everybody, including myself, and all I get is feedback. Like how do you deal with that? Because I think at some point I would say, you know what? I'm out of here. You guys think. I love it. I probably have an unhealthy sense of, I don't know, something's wrong with me, like the amount that I love, probably like the negative feedback. But to me, what's worse than negative feedback is nothing, no feedback. Like, to me, that shows, you know, a very strong, passionate interest in the sport. and that's just something that I appreciate. So, and most of the time, you know, the people, I don't think people realize that the amount of thought that goes into the changes that we make, that I sort of, I joke that I love the hate because, you know, most people are bringing up things that we brought up internally and then had worked through, you know, whether it was running simulations, which we used to do for changes to the system, we would copy over all the results and then run it the new way and then be like, oh, my God, this looks like garbage. Like what? I don't understand why it sounds so great in theory. So so everyone's complaints. It was more often than not that we we had those exact same proposals and then proved how terrible they would have been if we would have enacted them. And and so so for me, I can laugh that like, you know, we've already done that homework, even if people haven't realized it. So, but more often than not, you know, it's that vocal minority, the same five people that, you know, as soon as back in the day, every time that we jumped a system to a new rev or whatever, it'd be like, you know, I'd get the emails and we'd see the posts on, you know, well, RGP back in the day, there was no Pinside. but you know this is it now now i'm done with competitive football i can't believe you guys are doing this again and then you know we change the system a year later and it's like that's it now i'm out and it's like but you i thought you were out last last year what happened you stuck around i can't believe it like it's so it's all in the noise to me so uh so it seems like all the people who says if that person gets elected i'm moving out of america right that's right i'm moving to canada yet to see you guys move anywhere it's it's it's just interesting totally all it's all bark nobody so uh so you are ready to announce the five dollar buy-in for all tournaments on this show right right we're uh not yet not quite although we may have some some fee announcements coming if we ever come back here there's some there's some there's some stuff on the horizon but uh nothing five dollar related I found it that you have brought up before, and I totally agree with you when you talk about the competitive aspect of it, when you're trying to reach a new audience, like the award matters. When people – and your dad was talking about it last week with us, is that when they had tournaments, they gave away a Datsun 280. That just seems crazy. That would be like, hey, we're going to give a Mustang out for the winner of this tournament. Who wouldn't want to compete? But I completely agree with you when you have all these other competitive scenes out there and they say, oh, you worked really hard. You spent all this money to be a great pinball player. What did you get? Well, I got a $2,000 prize or I got a $500 prize or something like that where it's not even sustainable really. You're still losing money by competing. and occasionally yeah if you're really good you win a game but still that's you know that's five thousand dollars after you have invested probably at least that much just to get good or to travel or anything like that and so yes being able to find that market so yes there is a big carrot at the end if you win you will get rewarded so the real question scott's trying to ask josh when is the IFPA going to start forking out the money for Mustangs and Camaros? Unfortunately, we don't keep any of those dollars that come in, so it's going to be a while. Maybe if we can find some outside sponsorship. Wait, I thought you took your $100,000 per year cut, right? I may have to start keeping it, depending on where this Roth real estate business goes. Well, I'll introduce you to two guys, Martin Robbins and Jeff Teelis, they're fantastic at getting high dollar sponsors. So that is one thing to emphasize, too, is like you do this out of your passion, which I still find unbelievable that in many ways you're actually self-funding some of this stuff just to keep it going. And so if for all the naysayers out there, I say congratulations to your commitment to actually keeping competitive pinball alive, because it takes someone like you who has been so motivated to do this in your spare time when it's not your day job. Yeah, I mean, I think you can probably through your guys talks with my dad, you know, I would say it's it's it's not surprising if there was someone that was going to be, you know, fighting for the sport with with an insane amount of passion. It would probably be my dad's son. So happy to happy to take the mantle from him. And and. Yeah, I don't know, I'd say I probably enjoy the competitive aspect of it probably more than he does. so if your kids come to you one day and they're all grown up and everything and the mantle's getting ready to be passed and they look at you like dad it's just not as cool as air hockey are you gonna be able to accept them for that i've gone with the uh i've gone with the no pressure approach as a parent and my dad actually did the same thing with zach and i he he went beyond the no pressure approach he he went with the you're not allowed to play competitively approach which uh so maybe zach and my interest in the sport is some sort of like subconscious revolt against our father who knows i gotta go sit on a couch and figure that out probably but uh i can't remember what i was gonna say i can't remember what documentary it is but i remember your dad talking about that it's that documentary where well you're a special one lit oh no it was the vice documentary yeah the vice it's a shorter one but it's the one where you end up you're in the tournament and you're swearing and they look at your daddy's like that's my son right this is where you do not insert that clip into your family-friendly pocket we'll insert just a big old long beep for about four minutes and we'll say that was the that was the interview or that was the portion of the video if you'd like to check it out i i think i had only when that was filmed do we even have our first yeah we i think i had Colin was super young. I've since gotten much better at the swearing now that I have three kids. My new go-to F word is now fart. So my kids like that a lot. You don't want the elementary school calling. So your son was running around screaming this. Well, he learned that last night. I watched that on this stream, and here's what I heard. Actually, speaking of air hockey, I'm not kidding. I want when I first got into pinball, I was really new at it and I just pulled up on Netflix or one of those streaming platforms and I watched Special Winlet, which is completely depressing because it's like you think pinball is going to die at the end because at the very end they have all these rusted out husks of games out in the, you know, in someone's backyard. And there's another one that's called Way of the Puck. By the way, if you want to know about competitive air hockey, watch Way of the Puck because that is really interesting. And you're talking commitment by about 10 people who are so into air hockey since 1972. I'll have to. I know there was someone else pointed me to like a foosball documentary that's, I think, coming out. I think it's new. That is the same thing. It's a deep dive into the competitive world of foosball. And yeah, man, I'm in. I'll definitely check that out. So the one question, you grew up in pinball. I found it later in life. And the question is, and we asked, again, Roger about this last week, where is the next generation? Because arcades are not there anymore. Like how do people get exposed to pinball for the next generation? Because all the people who are getting their 80s nostalgia thrill ride because they grew up in the 80s when pinball was everywhere and they're buying up all the licenses, where is it going to be in 10 years when those kids never got exposed to pinball? I think the nostalgia play is a convenient cop-out, even today. I think, like, I've seen it with barcades especially. Like, there's people that are in their, you know, low 20s that have not seen pinball that are finding it through, you know, them venturing out to bars. And I think the other big avenue is through video pinball on, like, mobile and console platforms. I think there's access to pinball as a game that, especially on the mobile side of things, whether it's Zen Studios and Farsight, that the access to people learning about the game is way better than you would think. So I'm not worried about the next generation at all, personally. I mean, I think I'm seeing, you know, for the longest time, Zach and I were like the youngest people in competitive pinball. You know, we were the kids, as everyone else that's about 10 years older than us. You know, they were in their 20s in the 90s, and Zach and I were in our lower teens. And, you know, we've seen, I mean, you look at the people that are now, you know, top ranked in the world, and there's people that are well under 21, you know, that are the best at this now. that have found it. So I'm not concerned. I think all the talks of the concerns are like those old talking points that I don't think are as relevant anymore. So Josh, I don't know if your favorite theme has been made yet, but if you could pick any theme for a pinball machine, what would you pick? That's a great question. I don't know. You know what? Theme doesn't really drive me at all. like it does other people. I'm just looking for that complete cohesive package that brings whatever theme to life. So you're one of the people that when we did the Keith Elwin episode and he said he'd do Laundry Day as his terrible theme, you'd probably buy that if Keith did it? I'm in. Day one. He was even talking about a dryer mechanic that would spin the ball and stuff like that. I was like, he's already got this figured out. I'm in. No hesitation. What are you spending most of your time in your game room on right now? Playing a lot of Jurassic Park. Loving that. I pretty much go around and my kids tell me what they want to play. As they start learning games, they like watching me kind of blow stuff up and get to places they haven't been. So with my daughter, it's a lot of Batman 66. with my son. It's a lot of Iron Maiden. It's a lot of Attack from Mars. And we just finished out shopping out my World Cup, so we've been playing a lot of that. And my 8-Ball Deluxe has been playing a lot of that. One of the biggest questions I have, and since I didn't grow up in pinball, I am learning more and more about how to maintain games, or at least just basic skills. Now, you've known about this your entire life, but how... Like, how do I go through? Because, and I talked to you again, Roger, about this. And in medicine, there's two approaches when someone comes in. What they do is they say, I don't know what's wrong. Okay, so the first step is diagnosing the problem. The second step is now that you have a diagnosis, how do you fix it? How do you treat it? And I look at pinball machines the same way. There are ways that you need to learn how to diagnose and a way that you learn how to treat. And so one question I have is how do you get to that point when you could diagnose and treat a game? And my second question is why haven't the manufacturers come up with like a service school or an online school or something where either it's videos out there or a manual or something like that? So when people get into getting a machine, that's one of the biggest things. Like, yeah, I have this machine in the corner, but I can't fix it. Let me answer that in five minutes since I am needed urgently through my text, and I'll answer that as soon as I get back. 20 minutes later. All right. Service. What, what, what, what? Pinball sucks at servicing? That's where we're going. Well, basically, how do you actually teach people these skills? Because the guy that I have come out, he is great. Like if I call him, I call, he's Ray at Action Pinball in Utah. If you need him, give him a call. He comes out and he does it, but he's in his 50s. And he knows everything that's going on, but where's that next guy who knows how to do all that kind of stuff? And I would like to be that guy, but I don't really have the time. My Wizard of Oz has sat dead for a year until I finally just said, forget it, I don't have time to fix it. I called Ray and he came out and in 10 minutes he knew it was up. Yeah, that's tough. And I have to say, I mean, I'm even limited in my capacity of what I can do that I keep. I use Gavin Miller here in the Chicagoland area. Gavin's game service. He's awesome. And the same thing, like I will have a post-it note on my wall. And I'm seeing this during the quarantine time of like, oh, yeah, that's not working on that game. That's not working on that game. And if I get a long enough list, it's usually like once I once I get past a half a dozen games, it's worth his time to come out because, you know, his minimum call time is 90 minutes and most of the stuff he could fix in eight minutes. So, you know, I try to make sure I have enough work to keep him occupied for at least that minimum. But it's a great question. Yeah, I mean, I think you see like enthusiast operators are kind of the new level of operator out there in the world for pinball that, you know, I think you're going to see more people learning how to do it themselves. And then, you know, you'll see those people offering those services to those who need it within their communities, I think is probably the best way. Outside of that, you're left with really hoping for, if you're focusing on new games, you're hoping for manufacturers to help pick up the slack. And then through their distribution and dealer network, making sure that they're trained in the products from their manufacturer. It should be the same thing at Raw Thrills, making sure that our distributors know, you know, how to fix our games, how they should be operating. And making sure if we're seeing any sort of like systematic failures that we're doing the right thing on our end in terms of, you know, service bulletins or putting up common problems that happen over time of games. You know, we just started making YouTube videos at Raw Thrills to just show like, here's how you completely disassemble and reassemble a Jurassic Park gun. And and we had it was part of a project for a new one of the new mechanical engineers that we brought on board. It was like as he was learning how to do this himself, you know, as someone who was only school taught and not street taught. We we asked him if he wouldn't mind, you know, once he learns how to do this, just film a video of him doing it. And and it's been great because it's taught him how to do it. And we now have the asset of a tutorial video that other people can lean on to how to do it themselves. Do you think we ever get to a point though where it where I think of cars in this respect where they just pretty much hook up the computer to the car it diagnoses it for them and then the part could be pretty much plug and play Because I feel like that kind of the direction we going Everything getting so small you can really solder on the circuit boards anymore Yeah I mean I think you seen that with like you know highway pinball and their model I think there's something to, I think depending on your focus of home market, like right now you can either focus on selling a game to like the normal commercial channels and the people who buy it commercially are pretty, you know, more savvy than the random person. And, And even, you know, companies like Spooky Pinball or whoever that are primarily focused to selling to that existing enthusiast market are also of like a certain savvy level. I think once you get into trying to sell to Genpop, that's where, you know, you're looking at maintenance being a huge issue in terms of like, how do I take off the glass? You know, for the owners that wouldn't have any idea how to do that, that you start talking about modularity. as really a necessity if you're looking to ever sell a game that would beat tens of thousands of people across the planet. So what are the games that you're looking at for buying the next five games? I have an Elvira in my garage and no person to help me bring it down into the basement now until at least May 30th. Good damn it. So beyond that, I don't know. Keith L. Keith L. wins next five games. Probably my next five games. So wait, which Elvira did you get? The new one. Oh, the, the new one. Nice. I'm pretty much, I'm a, I'm a Lyman and Keith fan boy. So if you had to take up Batman 66 versus the new Elvira, I know Elvira is not as far in code as, as Batman 66, but which, which direction would you head so far if you had to pick one or the other? You know, I've, I only, I've only played Elvira like four times ever. And it was at pinball expo back in November where there wasn't anywhere near the amount of code that was in now. So like, I honestly couldn't answer it. I know that, that Batman, I mean, is, is an amazing piece of work that it would be, it'd be tough to play a game that I think could be as, you know, all encompassing as that game. But, uh, you know, from what I've heard and seen in whether the dead foot videos or, you know, anyone else that's been streaming Elvira. There's a lot of fun there and a lot of, like, new twists on modes there that comes from the mind of Mr. Lyman that I wouldn't throw either of them out of bed, fellas. Neither of them. So I brought this up before and I speculated. You're in a manufacturing business where you know behind the scenes what limits your ability to make games or remake games. I'm always curious that there was obviously some hiccups with JJP and them releasing Pirates. However, with all the effort they went through on coding it, getting the license, getting all those mechs in there. But because there was some hiccups on when it was revealed and by the time the fans caught up to it, they weren't available. So let's speculate. Why do you think they haven't gone back into the production and spit out another thousand? I mean, who knows? Who knows? It could be, you know, we get asked, like, we made a game, Aliens Armageddon. And, you know, we get asked, it's not available for sale anymore because our license agreement ran out on December 31st of 19. And Fox was really easy to work with for us. And since the last time we renegotiated, Fox was swallowed up by Disney, who is way harder to work with with respect to the amount of money they want to see before they even decide to smell you at all. And, you know, for a game that was in sort of like the back nine of its life, you know, the numbers just didn't make sense for us financially to extend that license, knowing, you know, how much road there was left to pave in terms of the market accepting that product. So, I mean, it can be that. It can be, you know, if certain parts aren't available, I don't think, you know, Jersey Jack Pirates would fall under that. But, you know, I know when Stern did Big Buck Hunter, which they licensed from us, you know, they were buying. They didn't tool up that buck assembly, the one that goes back and forth, the whatever, buck on a stick instead of mick on a stick. They were literally buying that retail deer piece. and then mounting it to their assembly, that limited their production. So they could either have tooled up their own buck assembly or figured out some other way to do it. But you never know what's going to limit the production capabilities. It can really be anything. I was going to say, I know that a super awesome Pill and Bosh show did just interview Jack Guarnieri, and he said not to rule it out of them never producing it again. So who knows if we'll see it in the future or not. But that is a fun game, and my hat's off to Eric for that game. Do you hang out with – I mean, I would say, you know, knowing that that's a Disney license, I think my dad got that one for them. But, you know, Disney – we have a Marvel game, and, you know, Disney's tough, man. They make a lot of money. So, you know, the ability for our entire industry to be any sort of meaningful for them is really tough. I'm sorry. When you said Disney, you know, before they even sniff you, I'm like, is this a Biden reference? That's what we're talking about here. Well, it's social distancing, so you have to sniff from six feet away. That's right. That's right. They have to get a good waft, you know. That's creepy. Okay. Well, but any longer, Disney's going to own everything at this rate. So you got to start kissing cheeks now, I guess. I'm supposed to be – today, I am actually supposed to be on a Disney Antonio Cruz. We bought it like six months ago. So that – yeah, who knows? I thought you were about to say Disney is thinking about buying our hospital. Yeah, exactly. That would be awesome. I would love to have Mickey ears when I go in to see a patient. That would be awesome. Josh, you have a copy of your dad's book, do you? I do. I mean I'm not holding it, but I know where it is down here. It's in the same level of the house that I'm at currently. Did he give that to you? He gave me, for one of my birthdays back in the day, he gave me a copy of every book he's ever written. Okay. Tell me about the other books. Wait, how many books? The how-to book for tanning is probably my favorite. Wait, what? Let me see if I can – I don't even know if it's Googleable. Oh, yeah, it is. Here we go. Hold on. Can I post a link in the chat? Yes, please do. All right. Hold on. When I think of Roger Sharp, tanning is not the first thing that comes to mind. I'm not saying – Now you're like, damn, now we got to get him back on the podcast. Here you go. Check out that link, boys. Oh, my goodness. Buy used for $5. By Roger C. Sharp without frying. Wow. Wow. Is there one on how to grow a sweet mustache? Right. I know. You guys didn't see that one coming, did you? Not at all. this is this is going to be the episode photo i'm sorry this is golden i'm buying this i don't care i'm totally buying this was that something at gq they're like roger we loved your pinball book we've got the perfect one to follow up how to get without frying i you know what i honestly don't know which one came out first? This is the 79. So the follow-up, the epic follow-up to Pinball is Tan. That's right. You better buy this before you post your podcast because all those used copies are going to be gone. And I love the 70s design star that looks like a Jax game. That is awesome. Wow. Straight out of Austin Powers. Seriously, I did not see that one coming. There you go. Enjoy. I need to reread it tonight. It's a short one. What is it, like 50 pages or something? I don't even think it's that. It feels more like a pamphlet. That's great. Well, Josh, what's on the horizon for you? Pinball in the future, what are you looking forward to in six months other than not being quarantined? Right? Yeah, I'm looking forward to the other side of this thing and seeing competitive pinball, you know, where it falls back into place in the world. You know, our world championship is scheduled for November currently. I'd love it if the world got to a place where that can happen. You know, I'd love to be able to go to Pinburg in two and a half months. I'm not so confident that that's going to be happening, you know, so soon with, I would assume with Illinois and other states, you know, stretching into the end of May. It's tough to think about any future plans beyond the quarantine. You know what I mean, guys? It's like it's just so all encompassing in our lives. Like I would like to see my family and friends in person, you know, beyond Zoom chats. That's what I'm looking forward to in the future. Yeah, it really is. It feels like we are in this holding. Do you know what it feels like? It feels like in Little League baseball when you're on deck and you're just kind of waiting to go into the game. Right. And you're just waiting there. You're not sure exactly if the next guy is going to strike out and you're going to get a shot. It just feels like you are sitting there waiting. I do. I hope I've enjoyed cooking more meals at home and playing more with the kids and all that stuff that it'd be nice to remember this when things get back to more normal but I'm certainly afraid that it's going to go back to working too much at the office, missing the kids getting home in time just to put them to bed bringing in food because nobody had a chance to get anything organized and all the normal just passing of life. I hope that I can keep this moment in my head going forward to try to make sure I'm enjoying every day because I certainly wasn't before this. There was a lot of day-to-day taking things for granted for sure. Okay, this is a flashback to our interview with your dad. Oh boy. Legitimately. Which I have not listened to yet. I didn't want to listen to it before we did ours just so you can make any similarities and I can realize how much like him I am. Well, I mean, Josh, remind me, he talked about it and he asked you once, he's like, I'm a good dad, right? And you're like, yeah, you come home at night. And so he's like, that's when he started implementing, no, we're done at six o'clock. If you need to come in and see me, I'm done at six o'clock. I'm going home. I'm seeing my family. So I and as a 45 year old professional guy, I think we all can relate to that, too. yeah I can actually remember my dad you know uh Williams was in the city and we I live I live less than a mile from where my parents live now where I grew up here so I mean he had a commute of 45 minutes each way to the office every day you know 40 50 minutes probably more I mean it was terrible that I can remember when I was a kid you know gathering enough courage to ask him if he could be home more at night because you know so often it would be like me Zach and my mom having dinner And then at like eight o'clock, he'd come strolling in or whatever. And, you know, we play pinball and play video games and stuff. But, you know, how long do we have an hour, hour and a half before, you know, Zach and I probably went to bed. And, you know, we enjoyed hanging out with our dad a lot. So I can remember asking him if he could start coming home earlier so we could, you know, have more time together. Yeah. Well, and I think it's harder nowadays, too, just for the simple fact that, you know, back then you got home. there wasn't an internet connection. It's not like, yes, you could get a call from the office or whatnot, but it's, it's kind of like you left the office. It's, it was. Yeah. I mean, I was, yeah, last night I had a, an impromptu, you know, my boss video chats me at like eight 30. It's just as we're sitting down to watch survivor with everyone. It's like, guys, I gotta take, I'm so sorry, but I gotta take this. And it's like, it's the 24 seven work day. It's crazy. Yeah. I I'm the same way too is when I get home there's a lot of people that call me just to deal with little issues and so I'll be talking with them for about half an hour and my kids are just like dad get off the phone yeah and it's like that that dagger in your heart that twists a little bit you're like I've become my dad okay but tonight actually do you know what I am doing I ordered deep dish pizza from Chicago and they are sending it to me refrigerated and so that is actually what I'm cooking tonight. At Lou Malnati's by chance? No. What brand? I don't know. Was it Gino's East or something? Did I not get the right one? I mean, it's fine. Enjoy. Okay, so everyone has their... Pizza to me is like pinball. there's not really a bad pinball game out there. There's not really bad pizza. There's just different levels of awesomeness for pizza. Okay. Where is the L E level of awesomeness that I need to order next time? I'm a, I'm a big Lou Malnati's is our go-to out here. How do you spell that? Lou, L O U M L O U. And then Malnati's M A L N A T I. I'm going to have to order some of that. I think you can ship them frozen. Yeah, that's okay. That's right. You ship deep dish pizza right there. oh oh it's okay i thought it was like the like the illuminati so i was like what are you talking about the illuminati okay all right okay okay well that will be we now we ordered uh nine pizzas because it was uh easier to order nine or seven or whatever so that will be my next option okay i'm hanging tastes of chicago right now to uh figure this bad boy out okay actually yeah okay so when i was in chicago i went about uh 20 years ago or so to a cubs game with my brother we just decided to go to chicago so we flew to chicago we did the chicago thing and we said oh we'll take the architecture tour which you know you hop on one of those boats and it takes you up and down the charles river or not the charles river that's Boston uh what river is it there probably the Chicago yeah okay and uh so we got there and the tour started at 1 p.m but we got there at 12 and so we were on you know the L we just stopped off and got some pizza on you know that that L loop that goes that circle right in the middle it was on the south part of it I have no idea where it was so we sat down we ordered one of these things we didn't realize it took 45 minutes to cook this thing oh yeah oh yeah okay so we got the pizza at 12 50 we were supposed to be on the boat in 10 minutes we shoveled one piece in our mouth took the rest with us and then while we were on the l we hit another piece and then we ran four blocks straight and hopped right on the boat and we had some pizza under our arm and i think that we, for about the first half hour of it, we didn't hear anything because we were in a pizza coma and we were about to throw up. We, yeah, we always call, we call ahead for dine-in even for that. So you can eat up most of those 45 minutes at home or, you know, if we go do it at work, we'll order and then work another half hour and then head over and sit down and get our stuff. Nice. Josh, thanks again so much for coming on. And it's always fun to talk to you. Wish you all the best. And when you get that slightly smaller version of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for all thrills, give me a call. You got it. I feel like we always get through about like a tenth of the questions that you guys send in advance. So we'll have to pick up and try to try to focus on getting through some more of those at some point. But we can certainly take up the first 15 minutes of the next chat reviewing the tanning book. I can make sure I reread it before then. I'm seriously buying it right now. I'm just glad I was able to be a part of the conversation because last time we had technical issues and I wasn't able to record my voice along with you two. That's right. Next time we do this, assuming I'm back at work, I will bring my laptop into the office that has a mic and speakers available and make sure there's no hiccups. Awesome. Well, thanks again, Josh, for joining us. If you guys want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. Or you can contact us via Facebook. Honestly, that's probably the best place to get a hold of us. And we're on Instagram now, too. We still have a couple T-shirts left. I know that we promised we'd do a T-shirt giveaway. We haven't, honestly, we haven't got any submissions yet. So I'm putting it back on you guys. If you want a T-shirt, you better send something in. so um anything else for us scott i i think we're good i'd love to see in about one to two weeks awesome sounds good Bye.

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: f7ce3e20-cc51-4555-950f-30ba29943544*