# Pinball Roundtable Part 3 with Retro Ralph and Cale Hernandez - Episode 65 **Source:** JBS Show **Type:** podcast_episode **Published:** 2025-06-13 **Duration:** 83m 7s **Beat:** Pinball **URL:** Buzzsprout-17310520 --- ## Analysis This Pinball Roundtable discusses Jersey Jack Pinball's Harry Potter marketing strategy (criticized for poor execution and lack of outside-industry reach), Retro Ralph's behind-the-scenes featurette production, the community's small reach, and introduces Jersey Jack's new 'Game Changer' feature—a QR code-based difficulty adjustment system designed to let players of different skill levels enjoy games together. The hosts debate whether this feature has merit and whether negative misinformation in the tight-knit community can harm game sales. ### Key Claims - [HIGH] Jersey Jack Pinball's marketing team left mid-launch, creating poor optics during Harry Potter's release — _Jamie states directly that Ken (marketing) resigned and left during launch window, with delays pushing timeline beyond his planned departure_ - [HIGH] Retro Ralph's Harry Potter featurette received ~20,000 views while Godfather featurette had double that despite Harry Potter having vastly larger potential audience — _Ralph confirms he researched view counts and states Harry Potter should have 100k-200k views with proper outside-industry marketing reach_ - [MEDIUM] The pinball community estimates maximum reach of major pinball content at 85,000-100,000 views across all platforms if every interested person sees it — _Multiple hosts discuss theoretical maximum audience size; consensus roughly 85k as 'over-under' with agreement community is much smaller than it feels internally_ - [HIGH] Jersey Jack did not provide any organic Harry Potter sponsored posts on social media during launch; Ralph created his own because he noticed marketing void — _Ralph states he wasn't initially paid for promoted posts, did them unprompted because JJP was 'falling on their face with marketing,' then JJP requested a Facebook post afterward_ - [HIGH] Game Changer is a 10-year-old Jack Danger concept responding to customer feedback that children get discouraged by game difficulty — _Jamie explains Jack Danger pitched this idea after hearing from customers whose kids couldn't enjoy games due to difficulty level_ - [HIGH] Negative misinformation can suppress sales even for good games; example: 'Gun Gate' John Wick controversy affected distributor orders — _Retro Ralph reports talking to distributors whose regular buyers avoided John Wick due to perceived political statement (later explained as error by George Gomez)_ - [HIGH] No media was invited to Harry Potter launch, but games were placed at major distributors immediately — _Jamie notes this as a departure from traditional press strategy but credits the distributor placement approach_ - [HIGH] Retro Ralph's featurette was filmed on a castle set in North Carolina (sent by company called Alex) rather than Jersey Jack factory floor — _Ralph details that Ken arranged use of professional castle set constructed by North Carolina company; reveals this was surprise improvement over original plan_ ### Notable Quotes > "I went and looked to see how many views the Godfather featurette had... The Godfather featurette has a lot more views. It has double the views of my Harry Potter video, and that kind of fascinates me... I would think that there's probably, in current times, more Harry, like millions of people that have watched are fans of Harry Potter." > — **Retro Ralph**, ~43:00 > _Core critique of Jersey Jack's failure to market Potter outside the pinball bubble despite massive mainstream audience potential_ > "They haven't reached outside of the pinball universe. Like they haven't reached that audience." > — **Jamie (paraphrasing Colin's point)**, ~41:00 > _Identifies root problem: Jersey Jack's marketing infrastructure is pinball-only, limiting reach despite having a mainstream IP property_ > "What do you guys think is like in the perfect scenario where every pinball person gets access to this piece of content? What is that maximum number of people you can reach, you think... My over-unders, I would say a good over-under would be 85. Tops. And that even feels high to me." > — **Jamie**, ~48:00 > _Stark articulation of the industry's size constraints; one football stadium of potential total audience_ > "If you went on Shark Tank and you're like, I have an idea. I'm going to build a toy that is made of wood, metal, glass, and plastic... And in this toy, you're going to be taking a solid steel ball bearing and shooting it at high velocity at all of these breakable parts. And get this. This machine is going to cost anywhere from $10,000 to $15,000. Who's in, sharks? They would laugh you off." > — **Kale**, ~50:00 > _Humorous but penetrating analysis of how economically irrational the pinball business model appears to outsiders_ > "the whole John Wick gun thing... I talked to distributors who they're – this was somewhat politically motivated because of... like people were believing that Stern was trying to make some kind of like political statement even though we know that's not even remotely accurate." > — **Retro Ralph**, ~65:00 > _Evidence that community misinformation directly impacts sales; distributors report customers avoiding John Wick due to false political narrative_ > "Kong got shit all over for stupid reasons. It was for, like, the artwork, right? Which is a totally subjective thing. But I think it was enough to turn certain people away from something like, oh, man, everyone's saying it's bad." > — **Kale**, ~62:00 > _Identifies cascading effect of early negative opinion in small community spreading misinformation to people who haven't played game_ > "So when we showed up and saw the set, I was like, are you kidding me? Like, we get to film on the freaking set? Because the set's awesome." > — **Retro Ralph**, ~15:00 > _Behind-the-scenes detail showing professionalism of Potter featurette production value_ > "They sent the cabinet. So they sent the CE to a company in North Carolina... And that company, North Carolina, is the one that constructed that whole castle set." > — **Retro Ralph**, ~12:00 > _Reveals Jersey Jack's investment in professional production infrastructure for Potter launch content_ > "It's dumb. I, in an arcade setting, not really a fan of it. But I could see, like, here's the one instance where I would use this. When my family comes over, they don't play pinball... I'd put this shit on easy, and I'd just be like, oh my gosh, you're so good." > — **Jamie**, ~82:00 > _Honest assessment of Game Changer's niche utility (home/casual family play) vs. broader appeal concerns in competitive/arcade settings_ > "Ken was still there obviously... he did tell me like, hey, I am resigning... But in his mind, he's like, well, I'm going to be here for the launch and then I'm out. But the thing is I think he had already like given his notice, so he just decided to stay on that timeline. And then the delays kept happening." > — **Retro Ralph**, ~29:00 > _Explains context for marketing void during Potter launch; Ken's departure was planned but delays shifted timeline, creating appearance of mid-launch abandonment_ ### Entities | Name | Type | Context | |------|------|---------| | Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Manufacturer criticized for poor Harry Potter marketing execution, departing marketing director mid-launch, and launching Game Changer feature without public communication | | Harry Potter (game) | game | Jersey Jack's major 2025 release with massive mainstream IP potential that failed to reach outside pinball community despite featurette; subject of marketing and reach criticism | | Retro Ralph | person | Content creator who produced the Harry Potter featurette; discusses behind-scenes production challenges, viewership metrics, and community marketing dynamics | | Kale Hernandez | person | Co-host of Electric Bat Arcade and Pinball Roundtable; contributes analysis on community reach, Kong criticism, and game accessibility | | Jamie Burchill | person | JBS Show host; moderates roundtable discussion, introduces Game Changer feature, drives topical direction, critiques Potter marketing strategy | | Ken (Kenneth Cromwell) | person | Jersey Jack Pinball's marketing director who resigned mid-Harry Potter launch; mentioned as departing gracefully but creating perception problem through timing | | Game Changer | product | New Jersey Jack Pinball feature using QR codes to adjust difficulty dynamically; allows different players to enjoy same game at different skill levels; launched with Potter but not publicly marketed | | Jack Danger | person | Designer/creative director at Stern who conceived Game Changer idea 10 years ago based on customer feedback about kids struggling with game difficulty | | Eric Minor | person | Designer of Harry Potter at Jersey Jack; noted for comfort on camera during featurette and personal connection to Harry Potter franchise | | Joe Catz | person | Code/rules designer at Jersey Jack; interviewed for featurette but notably uncomfortable on camera; was working on Avatar finishing during filming | | Godfather (game) | game | Jersey Jack title whose featurette received double the views of Potter featurette despite smaller mainstream IP audience; cited as evidence of marketing failure | | John Wick (game) | game | Stern title subject to 'Gun Gate' controversy; misinformation about political messaging caused distributor order cancellations | | Evil Dead (game) | game | Spooky Pinball title praised for excellent theme integration and code quality; cited as positive example of LCD implementation and audio integration | | Jaws (game) | game | Recent Spooky title praised alongside Evil Dead for theme integration and LCD implementation done correctly | | King Kong (game) | game | Subject of community criticism over artwork aesthetic that allegedly damaged sales despite being subjective design choice | | Electric Bat Arcade | venue | Arcade venue run by Kale and Rachel; recently received Dune pinball machine; referenced for observing public unawareness of modern pinball | | Wormhole Pinball | venue | Jamie's former venue where corporate rentals kept business afloat; referenced as example of public amazement that pinball still exists | | Mason | person | Editor of Retro Ralph's Harry Potter featurette; handled post-production and attempted AI generative removal of keys in final shot | | Dune (game) | game | Barrels of Fun pinball title; recently installed at Electric Bat Arcade for roundtable discussion (mentioned as upcoming topic) | | Pinball News | media | Podcast/outlet where Jack Danger and Eric Minor first discussed Game Changer; noted as secondary channel vs. no official Jersey Jack communication | | George Gomez | person | Stern designer who explained the actual reason for John Wick gun imagery (not political); his explanation contradicted false narrative | | Colin | person | Community figure who raised point about Potter marketing not reaching outside pinball universe; referenced as requiring 'Colin Decoder ring' to understand | | Spooky Pinball | company | Manufacturer praised for Evil Dead and Jaws execution; contrasted with other manufacturers' approach to code focus and theme integration | | Looney Tunes (game) | game | Spooky title described as 'still all fucked up' with ongoing software issues; contrasted with Evil Dead's polish | | Rachel | person | Co-operator of Electric Bat Arcade with Kale; mentioned regarding Dune arrival and spouse context | ### Topics - **Primary:** Jersey Jack Pinball marketing strategy and failures, Harry Potter game reach and audience expansion beyond pinball community, Retro Ralph's featurette production and behind-the-scenes details, Game Changer difficulty-adjustment feature and accessibility design - **Secondary:** Community size and theoretical maximum audience reach for pinball content, Misinformation and negative gossip impacting game sales, Theme integration and LCD implementation quality across recent releases - **Mentioned:** John Wick 'Gun Gate' controversy and political narrative damage ### Sentiment **Mixed** (-0.25) — Hosts praise Ralph's featurette production but are critical of Jersey Jack's marketing execution, Ken's departure timing, and overall industry reach limitations. Discussion of community misinformation adding negativity. Balanced with appreciation for Evil Dead/Jaws quality and acknowledgment of pinball's unlikely survival as a product category. ### Signals - **[business_signal]** Jersey Jack's promotional social media strategy overwhelmingly featuring aging catalog (Toy Story 4, Avatar, Godfather) rather than flagship Harry Potter release; suggests internal marketing disorganization (confidence: high) — Jamie: 'somebody there, and I have a feeling it wasn't Ken, because this is just pissing in the wind, is doing all of these promoted posts about all of their other games... everybody who's into pinball, their whole social media feed is flooded with Toy Story 4 or Avatar.' - **[community_signal]** Negative misinformation cascades quickly in tight community, damaging game sales; John Wick 'Gun Gate' controversy caused distributor order cancellations despite explanation from George Gomez (confidence: high) — Ralph: 'I talked to distributors who they're... somewhat politically motivated... people were believing that Stern was trying to make some kind of like political statement even though we know that's not even remotely accurate.' Kale adds: 'Kong got shit all over for stupid reasons... enough to turn certain people away.' - **[sentiment_shift]** Pinball community's small size (~85k-100k max reach) creates bubble effect where internal momentum masks industry's marginal market position; public largely unaware pinball still exists (confidence: high) — Jamie: 'my over-unders, I would say a good over-under would be 85. Tops.' Kale observes daily: 'People walk in and go, what in the fuck is this? Like they can't believe it exists... They're like, they're still making pinball machines?' - **[design_philosophy]** Game Changer feature perceived as niche utility for home/casual family play rather than broader arcade/tournament applicability; limited use case acknowledged by designer community (confidence: medium) — Jamie: 'It's dumb. I, in an arcade setting, not really a fan of it. But I could see, like, here's the one instance where I would use this. When my family comes over... I'd put this shit on easy.' - **[market_signal]** Stern Pinball's approach to reaching outside pinball community through video gaming/other audiences contrasted as successful alternative to Jersey Jack's pinball-only strategy (confidence: medium) — Ralph: 'What Stern does when they kind of tap into the video gaming, they tap into other places... Pinball has a big problem of reaching these other people... The pinball community is going to know about the game... but we're not reaching that audience.' - **[market_signal]** Jersey Jack Pinball failed to create organic Harry Potter sponsored posts on social media during launch; relied on Retro Ralph's unprompted promotion and eventually requested single Facebook post (confidence: high) — Ralph states: 'I didn't get any sponsored posts for harry potter... all I'm seeing is Toy Story, Guns N' Roses... That was the first actual Harry Potter ad I got.' JJP initially didn't prompt the promotion. - **[personnel_signal]** Jersey Jack's marketing director Ken resigned mid-Harry Potter launch, creating perception of abandonment during critical release window despite planned departure (confidence: high) — Ralph: 'he's like, well, I'm going to be here for the launch and then I'm out. But the thing is I think he had already like given his notice, so he just decided to stay on that timeline. And then the delays kept happening.' Jamie notes bad optics: 'your marketing looks so bad, and then right in the middle of it, your marketing guy leaves.' - **[announcement]** Jersey Jack Pinball's new 'Game Changer' feature uses QR codes to adjust difficulty dynamically for different skill levels; launched with Harry Potter but only discussed on podcasts, not via official marketing (confidence: high) — Jamie: 'this feature is something they're launching with Harry Potter, but they did not talk about it at all. They're only talking about it on podcasts... weird that you're doing it that way.' Jack Danger conceived idea 10 years ago based on customer feedback. - **[product_strategy]** Retro Ralph's featurette required post-production AI generative removal attempt for keys visible in final cabinet shot; editor attempted using Adobe Premiere generative tools but result looked 'goofy' so keys left in final cut (confidence: high) — Ralph: 'Ken had captured all the video footage... last shot of the cabinet and it had the keys in it... Mason... was doing a bunch of this like generative AI stuff... I can try... it just looks goofy. I'm like, screw it, just leave the keys.' - **[product_concern]** Spooky Pinball's Looney Tunes remains problematic with ongoing software issues; contrasted sharply with Evil Dead's polish, suggesting focus/resources matter for code quality (confidence: medium) — Ralph: 'Looney Tunes is still all fucked up. It does weird shit... And then they just kind of forgot about it, I guess.' Contrasted with Evil Dead: 'they proved it with Evil Dead... they hit it out of the park.' - **[business_signal]** Jersey Jack Pinball not reaching outside pinball community with Harry Potter marketing despite massive mainstream IP potential; featurette views (20k) far below sustainable threshold for major franchise (confidence: high) — Ralph: 'I would think that there's probably... more Harry, like millions of people that have watched are fans of Harry Potter... I feel like that video should get a lot more than 20,000 views... 100,000 or 200,000.' Colin's point: 'they haven't reached outside of the pinball universe.' --- ## Transcript 🎵 Hello and welcome to the JBS show and another edition of the Pinball Roundtable with my cohorts, Kale Hernandez and Retro Ralph. We've got a lot to talk about and let's get going. How are you, gents? Good. Top of the world. Yeah. I just had my teeth professionally cleaned. Do you guys do that? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Freaking awesome. I got all good marks. Good. You know, I can't stand when they stick that thing up there and they go five four oh that pisses me off when the numbers are low numbers are bad right yeah yeah i don't know what's going on i don't care i don't know do you want high numbers do you want low numbers i think you want them high but it's not good yeah yeah i think you make you feel like make you feel like this one's too crap right off the bat this guy's Yeah. This guy's not flossing. He's got a floss guy. Dude, I floss. So check this out. Twice a day, I floss and then do the water pick and then brush. Wow. Twice a day. Dude, you have OCD or something with your teeth. No, I don't have that at all. I just don't want issues. I got good-looking teeth. You do. He does have good choppers. He does. So that's nice. Well, I'm glad everything went well and no twos and ones. So congrats. Good job, Kale. Way to go, Kale. We have to talk about Harry Potter, and it's vitally important. Now, today is Ralph's show, okay? These are Ralph's topics. I'm just steering the bus, okay? Yeah, steering the ship. But we really need to talk about it, Kale, because I don't know about you, but I'm pissed at the dude, okay? I'm a little fired up at Ralph because we've known he's been doing the feature for Harry Potter we know he's seen it he's going to go do all these great things and he doesn't tell us a damn thing nothing it's amazing and we tried you guys didn't try that you did but I was pretty good I was like steel trap I wasn't telling you anything but we also knew we can't pressure Ralph Where do we want to start? The featurette, you did. Man, that is top shelf. Thank you. Very, very well done, except one thing I did mention to you. Oh, no. The key's in the backbox. I can tell you why. I can tell you why that happened. Okay, so this is actually a good moment, right? No, but thank you for also letting Kaneda know that because he busted my balls for like 10 hours, so that was good. I was like, I was cool with you doing it, but then, of course, he brings it up. Yeah. So but anyway, so Ken grabs the capture card and I had captured all the video footage and that so that I don't know why that it was like that last shot of the cabinet and it had the keys in it. And I'm like, shit. And then we were watching the edit back, Mason and I, and I'm like, can you get rid of that? He's like, dude, it's like I can try. And he was doing a bunch of this like generative AI stuff where generative like there's like a bunch of stuff in Adobe Premiere now where you can edit out stuff and it just looks goofy. I'm like, screw it, just leave the keys. I made that decision to leave the keys and stuff. So that was my fault. I didn't like it, but I loved it. So you guys did see it before you released it? Yeah, and we just didn't have the same shot twice that – I only had one other shot that didn't have the keys for that shot we wanted to use, and it wasn't mine. It was – so I don't know if you guys realize the – they send this cabinet. So they sent the CE to a company in North Carolina. His name is Alex. I can't remember his last name. He's really cool. So that trailer that you see, that's Alex out in North Carolina. So they shipped to the same C.E. that we were working on to North Carolina to do that. And that company, North Carolina, is the one that constructed that whole castle set. So Ken had asked, can we have the castle set? So I didn't know that castle set thing. I didn't know we were going to have that. I thought we were going to have to film in the factory floor, which I wasn't that excited about. Because I'm like, how do you make the factory floor look cool other than a factory floor? Like, that's just what it looks like. Like, so when we showed up and saw the set, I was like, are you kidding me? Like, we get to film on the freaking set? Because the set's awesome. So, yeah, so that's how that all came together. And I think I had another point in there, but I don't remember what it was now. Sorry. No, you did great. Okay. I forgot what it was. How did you, you know, if you haven't watched the feature, it's on YouTube, Retro Ralph's channel. Which channel? Retro Ralph. Yeah. Okay. I get confused with the retro Ralph and the retro Ralph live. I know. I'm sorry. It's okay. But go check that. If you're living on a rock and you haven't watched this feature, you're making a mistake. It's pretty awesome. But how did you write that script? Like, how did you deal with people? These are not professional people that can handle having a camera in front of their face all the time. I mean, Eric obviously was. Eric was really easy because he's just – you could tell him, hey, talk about this for a minute, and he would do it. But I did have – so I had – every section of the video was broken up into those sections, right, like gameplay, art, music, sound, whatever. And then I just thought to myself, if I'm going to – this was kind of hard because I'm thinking to myself, okay, if I need to get answers to somehow form this into some kind of story, then I have to ask these in some kind of coherent manner. or otherwise when I piece it together, it's not going to make any sense, or it's going to be super hard for Mason in post because there's too many answers. So I kind of like, I looked at, I studied the Avatar trailer, anything that Zack and Greg had ever done straight down the middle, just to kind of see how they structured it. I definitely structured it in a similar way, but the questions were tough because, yeah, it's like what questions do you want to ask the mechanical engineer? Those are probably going to be different questions than I'm going to ask the sound guy like David, right? So I don't know. It all kind of came together. I looked at them like a million times. I changed them a million times. There's only a couple of times where I had to go off script because, like, I love Joe Katz, but Joe, as soon as the camera turns on, like, Joe could talk all day long about code. And then the camera comes on, and it's like he kind of locks up a little bit. Sorry, Joe. But if you see this or watch this. But here's the thing. It was like he'd say something off camera. I'm like, Joe, you just nailed it. Like you just need to say that again. I'm like, pretend the camera's not on, Joe, and say that. And it was like – because Joe would say some crazy awesome stuff, but it was off camera. And I'm like, we can't use it because he was looking like the wrong way or he was talking to me. Anyway, so Joe was probably – He doesn't know what to do with his hands. He just holds his hands like this. well here's the thing i felt bad for joe for two reasons joe was actually like a little the one that was a little bit less comfortable in front of the camera but then also it was during the peak hours of when they were doing like games on the line they were finishing up avatars so it was a nightmare you'd hear like and then like oh hold up now here you're like what the f they're still building avatars they were finishing them yeah they were finishing he always gets me in trouble on my podcast i know seriously uh but yeah so that was true but but no everyone was great to work with uh you know you know who was like probably the one that was the one that was obviously just like super easy was eric just because he he could just go on and on and that whole story about uh the book and his now wife but then girlfriend that was a question I asked him something about like some emotional connection to Harry Potter that like no one else would know about that would be interesting in relation to the game. And he told that story. It was like I think I said like tell me a personal story that ties you to the Harry Potter universe or something like that. And everyone had like really good – everyone's answers were pretty good, but his was like the best. That story was actually a lot longer. We cut it down. But yeah, it was good. And then we also cut down, like, in the beginning of the intro when Eric at the end kind of gives this, like, kind of smirk, what he said was not actually what he said. It was something else. It was similar, but I loved the original what he said, but we had to cut that out. It was a little bit more like – Wasn't that about muted clips? I thought that was like a stab at Canadian. It was about how loaded the game is, muted clips, and a picture of the bottom to make sure it's, like, really packed. That was what that was about. And that was directed toward Kaneda. I mean, anybody that's paying attention, the way he looks at the screen, I mean, the camera, I mean, come on. I just asked them, I said, hey, guys, can I, for $15,000, can you just put a DVD player inside the box that just plays the movie on the back? And I'll just buy that. That's what I want. I don't even want it to play. I'm just going to have flippers. I think that's what people really want. They don't want to play pinball. They just want to watch the movie in a smaller box. I just want to watch the whole movie. It's awesome. Well, thank you, Ralph. for giving us even more behind the scenes and i'm so glad it's damn done because i've had it i had it with your your constant calls i'm sorry i was my wife is definitely glad it's done oh bless her she's like because i would call the producer like daily i'm okay did you hear from wb and then i'd go downstairs like babe what's gonna happen what if they don't what what if they don't like the video do you think they're not gonna like it do you think they're not gonna air it at all like i was and she's like why would they not hear it she's like you're going crazy You need to calm down. Yeah. He had panic attacks. But you know what? The results are in the pudding, brother. Congratulations. Thank you. Appreciate it. And also Mason did such a good job with the edit. So props to Mason. Yeah. It was beautiful. It really was. Awesome. Let's talk about the marketing of this game itself. Little controversy. No media was invited. But I thought they did a good job by putting them out in the public at major distributors right off the bat. What do you guys think of that? I don't even want to go to kale first. Yeah. Yeah. What is going on at Jersey Jack with the marketing? I mean, it is. Okay. So before, but even before Harry Potter, somebody there, and I have a feeling it wasn't Ken, because this is just pissing in the wind, is doing all of these promoted posts about all of their other games. You know, please buy this. And they're like $1,000 off, $2,000 off, come to IAAPA and buy a game real cheap. And then everybody who's into pinball, their whole social media feed is flooded with Toy Story 4 or Avatar. Even after Jack already said don't buy these games, they're wasting money. and and the worst part is they're they're showing these games to people who already know about them like why is that in my feed and here's constant right like constant on instagram like who the fuck doesn't know about these old ass games and then and then here's the worst part it keeps getting it gets worse can you believe it or not no i can their marketing guy leaves halfway through the launch so that's a bad look and then and then harry potter is is announced it's it's uh you know you can you can pre-order we're still i didn't get any sponsored posts for harry potter i'm still looking at toy story 4 posts all this other shit and then and and then ralph comes in to save the day i don't even think he got paid for this no no no i did i did he starts doing promoted posts for Harry Potter. Oh, no, I didn't get paid for that. Oh, you mean like initially? His own account. Wait, what do you mean? Like post the launch or pre the launch? I messaged you about it and what a good job. I thought you were doing the marketing for them. Like they owe you something. Like you had sponsored posts about your featurette. Well, so they didn't tell me to do that. I actually did it because I felt like – You knew they needed it because they were falling on their face with the marketing. So I'll tell you this. They did want me to make a Facebook post, but I said – I went along – I was like, okay, cool. I was like, I'm doing that anyway. So they put like a bunch of keywords like, hey, get this out to Harry Potter groups. Get this out to other pinball fans. So I did that part. And that was great, and that was the first actual Harry Potter ad I got. Really? Seriously? You had not gotten one prior to that? No, because all I'm seeing is Toy Story, Guns N' Roses. What's the other titles? You know, Avatar, Godfather. I think Godfather. I don't know. But I'm seeing everything but Harry Potter. I mean – I will say this. When I was working, like when we were filming, Ken was still there obviously. And when it – I think they all thought at Jersey Jack that this would be done before the end of May. Like it would be out because Ken was always marching towards it. Like he did tell me like, hey, I am resigning. I wanted to let you know. But in his mind, he's like, well, I'm going to be here for the launch and then I'm out. But the thing is I think he had already like given his notice, so he just decided to stay on that timeline. And then the delays kept happening. So I think for him, he's like, look, I'm going to just do my thing. And I think he had booked a vacation or something too before he went transition. And I wasn't saying that that was like, oh, that was a bad decision by Ken. I think that just the optics were bad. Like your marketing looks so bad, and then right in the middle of it, your marketing guy leaves. That's true. Do you think that – here's one thing that's kind of weird. Colin actually brought this up. This was a – I didn't get what Colin was trying to say. I needed to use my Colin Decoder ring. Sorry, Colin. But in the – I think he was trying to say like, look, they haven't reached outside of the pinball universe. Like they haven't reached that audience. because if you think about it, right, this is crazy. I went and looked to see how many views the Godfather featurette had. Now, I don't know how many fans there are of Godfather versus Harry Potter, but I would think that there's probably, in current times, more Harry, like millions of people that have watched are fans of Harry Potter. The Godfather featurette has a lot more views. It has double the views of my Harry Potter video, and that kind of fascinates me a little bit Because I would view – if you were to reach the right audience outside of pinball, I feel like that video should get a lot more than 20,000 views. Don't you think? Absolutely. 20,000 is a lot. I'm cool with 20,000, but I think it should be like 100,000 or 200,000. 100%. Yeah. Let's talk about that. What's going on? I don't think anybody's trying to – because it's not my job. My reach is my reach. My YouTube channel is going to be mostly arcade and pinball people, right? And after that, it doesn't have any – it can't go any further because the algorithm puts me in this bucket, right? I'm surprised they haven't used their marketing firm to go say, hey, here's the video. Here's our trailer. Here's the featurette. Go push this to other audiences that are outside of pinball. Like there's no way they've done that because if they did, it would be like hundreds of thousands of views in my opinion. There's no way. Right. What Stern does when they kind of tap into the video gaming, they tap into other places because the pinball community is going to know about the game. They're going to search out. They know where to go to find – they know what outlets to find out about these games. Pinball has a big problem of reaching these other people. There's a really small population of people – let's just talk about the United States – that even knows pinball is still a thing. Here's a good question. I'm so curious about this because we all know what a piece of pinball content gets for views, right? What do you guys think is like in the perfect scenario where every pinball person gets access to this piece of content? What is that maximum number of people you can reach, you think, that are truly interested to consume a piece of content about pinball? And let's say this is the biggest news ever in pinball. How many views is that video going to get? Are you just talking YouTube? Yeah. Let's just say collectively everywhere, like all the different media outlets. No more than 100,000. My over-unders, I would say a good over-under would be 85. Tops. And that even feels high to me. So one football stadium. Yeah. Really? It doesn't even feel AT&T. You think it's that small? You think we're that small? I mean, I agree with you. I think there probably is that. We're tiny, man. Yeah. That's crazy, though, right, kind of? Because I feel like we're all friends with each other, so it feels like there's all this momentum. We're living in a bubble. But I see it every day at the arcade when people – okay, I've said this over and over again. We are connected to a 50-year-old dive bar. So when people come to our place, you go to Yucca Tap Room, and that's how you enter Electric Bat Arcade. And then you cut the corner, and it's like, holy shit, 65 pinball machines, a bunch of video games. I see it every single day. People walk in and go, what in the fuck is this? Like they can't believe it exists. Yeah, they can't believe. They're like, they're still making pinball machines? Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy to me. I know, but it's just like, I don't know. I'm telling you, when I was at the Wormhole, we would do constant corporate rentals. That was our, they only kept us afloat, right? and the corporate rentals, I would walk around and, you know, they could see my enthusiasm for the games. And I'm like, this one's made here in Houston. This one is a 2020 screen machine. They said, 23? Are you serious? You have to think about how this industry makes zero sense. Think about if you went on Shark Tank and you're like, I have an idea. I'm going to build – I'm going to manufacture a toy that is made of wood, metal, glass, and plastic. And in this toy, you're going to be taking a solid steel ball bearing and shooting it at high velocity at all of these breakable parts. And get this. This machine is going to cost anywhere from $10,000 to $15,000. Who's in, sharks? They would laugh you off. Kale, I like your presentation, but this is a disaster. I'm out. I don't like the product, but I like you. I don't like the product. We're going to hire you to do something. I'm out. Yeah, but we are really part of something incredibly, incredibly special. This is something that should not exist anymore. Video games should have killed this a long time ago, but because of a small group of dedicated people, we're here. Right. It's crazy. But also, when you said that, when when you just said the football stadium or whatever, it made me think about something that happens a lot. I know it not really a show topic but when someone says something inaccurate in our group in our community let say the whole thing a community maybe inaccurate or just like totally misled like they never played a game but it a new game and they shit all over it Yeah That is like a virus in our community It goes all over the place So now all of a sudden half that stadium is like on the other side Yeah, it's not half that stadium. It's not half that stadium. No, it's not half, but it infiltrates a good amount of that stadium, and it makes me wonder like sometimes I know we don't have the sales figures, but I just wonder sometimes when something gets said that's just really negative about something, And we all know, like, ah, you know what? We've played it. Like, let's say someone, like, Kong. Kong got shit all over for stupid reasons. It was for, like, the artwork, right? Which is a totally subjective thing. But I think it was enough to turn certain people away from something like, oh, man, everyone's saying it's bad. But they don't even read into why they said it was bad. And it could just be something stupid. And I just wonder, like, when someone does that and that happens, does it affect these guys' sales? Like can a good game get destroyed by misinformation because our community is so small? Do you think so? Well, I mean it definitely has some kind of effect. I mean let's just take specifics, the whole – that dumb John Wick gun thing. Yeah. That – like I talked to distributors who they're – this was somewhat politically motivated because of – who's the little guy that's on YouTube waving the gun around? Stop. What's his name? What is his name? Oh, Hardy. Terry Hardy. Like that did – that affected sales because I talked to many distributors who their regular buyers were like, oh, I'm not doing that. Stern has gone soft. It became almost – like people were believing that Stern was trying to make some kind of like political statement even though we know that's not even remotely accurate. Gun gate. Yeah. I mean, really, and why would you even think, like, no offense, I'm not meaning this to bash Kerry Hardy, but why would anyone think that any of these pinball companies want to make a political statement? They want to stay as far out of that as possible. They just want to create a game. They just want you to present a great game. They're making toys. Yeah, they're making toys. Exactly. There's no politics. They're making toys. Yeah. It's like that would be, if they even knowingly did that, that would be so bad for them business-wise, you know? But it was just crazy. I never once thought to myself when I saw that game revealed that Stern was trying to make, I just kind of figured, well, there's probably some reason for it, which George Gomez explained. But, yeah, it was just kind of crazy. That is unfortunate because I know that game doesn't get a lot of love. I think it's a brutal game. It's fast, but it's pretty fun. I don't love the code on it yet, but I do think the game is pretty fun. It's too hard. It got killed. Right. I think it got killed hard. You know, back on the topic, you know, these ideas hurting pinball, hurting pinball sales, I mean, this is nothing new. I mean, there are certain people in this industry who are, you know, podcasters, YouTubers, whatever you want to call them, their personalities. They know where, you know, they know where the money is. And the money is in outrage. that's nothing new the media has been doing this forever right you know i um you know they're not going to the revenue is not going to come in if they are just like talk if they talk about how awesome pinball is all the time yeah yeah they have to have the outrage they have to bring people in yeah i thought that was fucked up too let's jump you know um isn't it crazy though how many people will jump aboard that wagon though and it does happen it's nuts yeah they geek on it they geek on that negative weird stuff and weird stuff they'll come up with the weirdest thing to focus on like i don't know why i know it's gonna get i know i'm gonna get in trouble this i don't really care because it's so stupid the muted clips thing is so dumb it's so dumb like i don't get it They aren't all muted. That's the thing. And it's just a weird, like, I don't know. I don't pay that much. LCDs are great. I'm glad they're on modern games. Yeah. But if the game is good, I'm just focused on the gameplay part of it. I almost view the LCD as complimentary. Every now and then I can look up at it if there's a moment. And usually it's going to stop the game to give me that moment. You know what I mean? But I'm not looking at it like obsessing over the LCD. I'm trying to play the damn game. I don't know. Your best friend is all fired up about Mute Eclipse, man. I mean, you talk to him all the time. I'll say this, but I do like really good theme integration. So, like, I look at Evil Dead and I'm like, and Jaws, and go, man, you freaking nailed this shit. Like, nailed it. Evil Dead blows me away how well they're, like, they just did, between those two, like, Jaws and Evil Dead in recent times, those are such good theme integrated games. and so there is a way to do it where you can have the clips have the real audio from them and have it not seem weird or distracting because no part of jaws i don't know what do you guys think like it fits like every time there's me a video it's it's integrated in what i'm doing it's yeah yeah yeah and especially you know spooky again we've said it before and both of you said it on your own podcast spooky nailed evil dead just nailed it you really did they really did Thank God mine's still good. No issues. No issues. So between us, I know yours is getting played a lot more than mine, but mine's pretty rock solid. Zero issues. It's amazing. I hope they keep it up. Yeah, me too. I don't know what they changed. I think one of the main things they've changed, and I've talked about this on some podcasts. I don't know. I do so many. Who knows? but i think focusing on one machine they they cannot go back to uh well you know we have two machines same same machine they just they're just rethemed they they can't do that they can't they have a small group and they need to stay focused on one machine and they proved it with Evil Dead. You know, our Looney Tunes is still all fucked up. It does weird shit. I heard Texas Chainsaw was better, because I think Ben Heck dealt with the software on that side, and then some other group dealt with Looney Tunes. And then they just kind of forgot about it, I guess. I don't know. But, yeah, that game's a disaster. But what they did here with Evil Dead, man, they hit it out of the park. Yeah, no, agreed. I forgot we were going with that. We were going somewhere with this. We were just saying that. We're just talking. We're just sitting. Wait, what? I feel like we got through like one and a half topics. No, I know. We're going long, by the way. Keep us on task, James. Come on. What are you doing? I'm trying to keep you on task. I'm trying to keep both of you. What are you doing? It's like herding cats sometimes. Well, that's true. With these two, dude. With us two. With you. I'm surprised we could even have a podcast, period. We'll get canceled eventually. But Pim Bomb is keeping us in business. So thank you, Pim Bomb, and your continued sponsorship and support. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I really appreciate them. There you go. I got some in the package. Nice. Actually, my lips are pretty chapped right now. This is a good ad break for Pim Bomb. That's some good ASMR. There you go. There you go. Oh, man. It's got a good scent, like you said, Jamie. It really does. So we have two topics left if we have time, okay? Let's do it. I'm here. One topic is Kale and Rachel at the Electric Bat just got dune, so we should talk about that. And the last one we wanted to talk about was Code and Jersey Jack's new Game Changer. Game Changer, yeah. So what do you want to tackle first? Let's talk about the Game Changer. Okay. Okay. What did you say? What was your vote, Ralph? Oh, I was game changer first, too. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So should I lay the groundwork as to what this is? Yeah, please. Okay, so going back to Cale's point on marketing, it's very weird to me that this feature is something they're launching with Harry Potter, but they did not talk about it at all. They're only talking about it on podcasts. So Jack and Eric have talked about it, but that's how people are. and they talked about it with uh it was pinball news and i think like gonzo and someone else so that's weird to me because if this is something you're like new and you want to gain traction it's weird that you're doing it that way and not having any kind of like public your own like why are they not doing their own video content on it too to say like this is what it is this is what it does right so basically it was this idea that i guess jack had the jack said the story on pinball news it was an idea that he had like 10 years ago um i guess through feedback that like customers that had kids, would buy the game, and they'd come back and go, oh, man, my kids get discouraged because the games are so hard. And, like, it'd be really cool if we could play together, but if the game was, like, slightly easier for my kid as they build their skills. So that's what got him this idea that he would have a system where if I step up to a JJP game and I press start, I could have a QR code. If I'm shit at pinball, I could scan the easy QR code, and you guys are so much better than me, you could scan the wizard option, and you're going to get the hardest version of the game, and I'm going to get the easiest version. And for instance, it could be something like this. Let's say you have to knock down this bank of drop targets twice to light the lock. Well, for you guys, you'll have to do that. And because I scanned the easy option, my lock's already lit. So I just got to shoot the ramp three times, and I lock my three balls, whatever it is. That was the thought. Now, I'll give you my opinion real quick, and then we'll kick it over to you guys. It's dumb. I, in an arcade setting, not really a fan of it. But I could see, like, here's the one instance where I would use this. When my family comes over, they don't play pinball. And I can see them get frustrated sometimes. My sister, I'd put this shit on easy, and I'd just be like, oh my gosh, you're so good. I wouldn't even tell her I did it. And I would just and she'd be like, oh, my gosh, multi, but like she'd freak out and think it's awesome. But but that's also like a really edge case. Other than that, I think I don't know. I think for kids, I also feel like most kids when their their response time is so much better than us old guys like they they figure out pinball fast. So I don't even know if the kid aspect really where I don't know. I'm kind of like I got to kick it over to you guys because I honestly still I wanted to have an answer for this podcast. and I still feel like I'm conflicted on it. Is that all it does? If this is a good thing or a bad thing. That's it? Yeah, I don't know. But I don't give you that. It doesn't, like, there's no... It just makes it easier. Badges, there's nothing like Insider Connected. No, so, no, that's all this does. It's, so, all right, I didn't explain. It's a, in your coin box, there's a little, like, there's three, this is also kind of weird. There's three key fobs, and the key, it's not really a key fob. It's like a piece, it's like a square thing with the QR code. So you either have to show that or you can take a picture of it with your phone and do that. But all this does is sets global settings that Jersey Jack has thought make sense for easy, normal, and wizard. But this is not like a replacement for scorebit. I was trying to figure that out through podcasts. It sounds like Jersey Jack decided when they dissolved that relationship with Scorebit that they were going to do their own Insider Connected or something similar. But they are not giving any timelines as to when. So they're two separate things. This is strictly just to make your game easier. So this is for Aunt Betty that sucks at pinball. That's great. I don't know. I guess. This is Jack's idea of making the game more appealing to the public. And I first heard about this when I went there for Avatar, and he made that flippant statement about teaching people how to route pinball machines or make money with pinball machines. What did he say that about? Who was he talking about? Well, I was the only one in the room that operates pinball machines, so I don't know. Roll the dice. Figure it out yourself. but um you know and then and then i went on my podcast and i was like man this guy's such an asshole uh um when one of our viewers reached out to jack and was like what and he he said what do you mean by this about what you said you know when kale was in the boardroom there um he said well i would like to teach operators how to make the games easier so they would make more money so this is jacks that that's not the issue um jersey jack games are incredibly easy like our players are not getting frustrated and plus and i know about these easy and mid and hard settings on jersey jacks um but but their games uh the ball times are so long and i think it's by design and you get a million multi balls they they throw it's like blah It's everything at once. You know, this is what's going to, you know, it is like a, you know, people will say it's like a slot machine. It really is the slot machine mentality, like hitting dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, multiball, another multiball, another one. And so like on easier settings, like you're going to see more and more of this. That creates fatigue. And that's something that Jersey Jack doesn't get. They're creating – maybe it works at home. I don't know why this would be any different. But in a public setting, it's just people got tired of playing the game because it was too much. It's too much lights. It's too much multiballs. They're not great tournament games. There's so many other issues that make these not great games to operate, and it has nothing to do with their difficulty level. but but jack really believes that it does i don't know why somebody's asking on a podcast i think um the home setting is like i don't see this being an arcade like i don't know i just don't understand why you do this at an arcade because an arcade i don't at least maybe i'm just like jaded because i go to electric bat right maybe i'm jaded because you guys have an incredibly like talented group of people that go there you know me so the so the talent level really high but i can't imagine being like hey bro hold on i'm gonna scan my easy pass real quick like i don't at home i can totally see though if i had family over i could see doing it for them but also like why does it need to be a qr code like hold hold two flipper buttons in and change something just like they do now i have now you have now you're going through a different process Oh, shit, I've got to find my QR code, and I get nothing from it. I don't get a badge. I don't get to save my score. I don't get to save my progress. All it does is gives me 10 seconds more ball save or something. I think they should have probably – I don't know what this cost for them to do, but don't you think it would have made more sense to release pieces of the score bit replacement versus this? Absolutely. that will get more mileage than this, right? Yeah. Because people love the achievements. People love the badness. People love the score tracking, all that stuff. When I go to Eureka Heights or when I go to the bat, I tend to gravitate more towards the sterns when I'm playing for a few hours because I kind of get that dopamine when I get the achievement, right? When I look at the bat and I go, all right, I want to get on the leaderboard before I leave this damn place, okay? Are you guys not like, isn't the dopamine hit amazingly awesome when you bring in a new Stern game and it's like you're hearing that noise? I can't do it in my, the noise you get every time you get an achievement. I freaking love that. It's freaking awesome. It is freaking awesome. It's cool. And the only problem I have with Evil Dead is when I play it for an hour, I don't, I go, boy, this would be this much better if I got achievements. Yes. it would just be better i wonder if the reason why they haven't done it yet i'm sure they want to i think maybe because like stern obviously they never disclose how much they spend on it but i mean they've got all those servers and amazon that they have to use to keep that running and they and they really don't charge anybody for it so i wonder if like that's the because i don't know what that cost is it's got to be a decent cost it's got to cost a couple of bucks it's also it's not just that it's the the coders oh yeah that's true the time to make a code you're taking coding coders away from a game yeah you know uh yeah so it's it's probably more of a resource thing right like these companies don't have the resources to even develop it probably it just goes right back to how small pinball is and we're lucky that it's here at all yeah yeah yeah no Seriously. Anyway, I – Well, what did you think about it, Jamie? What do you think about this whole game changer thing? Do you think it's kind of like noise? No, it's a waste of time. It's a total waste of my time. So you're saying it's not a game changer? No. I mean, for Aunt Betty, once a year when she comes over, I'll flip it on. She won't even know, and it's going to take me ten minutes to figure out this QR crap and ba-ba-ding-ba-da-da. But, you know, it's a waste of time. God bless them, and I hope they didn't spend that much on it, and I hope that this is just a precursor to an insider-connected type of situation. Yeah, for sure. I mean, here's the thing. None of us will use this feature, and we probably have a bunch of friends that also would not use this feature. Well, I have one. There's one guy that comes into town and plays pinball with us, and I can see if we had a Harry Potter at the back and it was in a tournament, he would have that QR code, the easy one, like around his neck so he could say, oh, I didn't mean to log in. I don't know. I'm just kicking ass. There's always that one effing guy. We're talking about Dune. My friends at Barrels of Fun delivered a Dune to you, sir. It has been on your floor for how long? I don't know. Like a couple of weeks? Help me out, Ralph. No, I think – No, I really – it's only been like a week or so. It's been a week. Yeah. It hasn't been that long. Yeah. How's it going? Why do you look at me like that? Hey, let me – let me – okay. All right. I'm the only one – by the way, I'm the only one here that hasn't played it. Really? Yeah, I haven't played it. I was going to – I don't know. Depending on what Kale says, I may or may not play it. You're coming to hang out tomorrow, right? Yeah, yeah. I'll be down tomorrow. We'll both play it. I want to start out with the good stuff. And, man, Jonathan, Johnny Crap, knocked it out of the park. Yeah, it's beautiful. This game is stunning. And, you know, I have to say that because I think it was us, we did some kind of podcast, and I was like, not another Brown game. What is going on? Yeah, we called it Barrels of Brown, I think. Right, right. That wasn't on the podcast. That was a dinner between ourselves. Oh, okay. Right, right, right. So after we dropped that, Johnny reached out to me, Johnny Crap, and he's like, hey, Kale. He's a sweet guy. Hey Kale just wanted to let you know I only did the plastics on Labyrinth kind of like saying i understand color theory that wasn me uh and and he and we know he can do it look at jurassic park i mean he can make a game companies need to understand this the art on a game is huge that is the billboard that draws people into the game and and and johnny what's his name john bergeron is that Is that his real name? I think it is. I introduced myself, and he said I'm Johnny Crap. Okay, let's go with Johnny Crap. Did you say that his last name isn't that? No, it's not Crap. No, I don't think so. He made the Crap part up. Oh, because there's like a dude. I think he added that later. There's a dude that's a customer of ours, and his last name is Crap. Craps. It's plural. Oh, I've heard of Crap. Not one single Craps, but two Craps. I've met some Craps. Like, there are Craps out there. Oh, yeah. They're out there. So, anyhow. Johnny Crap knocked it out. This game is gorgeous, and he absolutely understands color theory because he has the oranges and the teals, very popular movie posters. He gets it, and he shows you what's up in this beautiful, beautiful game. Second, the light show. The light show isn't all there yet. There's a lot of stuff. You can tell it's just not there yet. It hasn't been coded into the game, but just the atmospheric lighting and that the row of LEDs they added that is in the cabinet. Man, that makes a massive, massive difference. It is really – it sets the tone. It creates a different atmosphere depending on what type of voltage they're sending to these LEDs, right? But all of that is amazing. The shots. Holy crap. I think David David Van Es, did he do this layout? David Van Es and – I think so, yeah. Yeah, I think so. And I know Travis Travis Moseman. I know Bill Grimaldi and Bo and Karen's helped with a lot of the layout as well. Yeah. They – it is really cool. the the mechs the ball paths um the way there are so many different ball paths is very creative and and original um all of that kudos that that's like a plus b you know nothing lower than a b on any of that stuff the the problem is the code this this game should not have left the factory the way they're shipping it. And I hate saying that because I want these guys to be very successful. But at the same time, if I see a storm over the horizon, I don't want to lie to people and tell them everything's okay. We're dealing with issues. Coils have burned up on us. um uh game you can uh put credits put tokens into the machine quarters or tokens into the machine and just nothing happens it won't the switch is working properly it just doesn't register that there's a credit so you cannot start the game um flippers die just out of nowhere they're just the flippers just die the the game is in a in a game state but the flippers just die like if you were to touch anything like if you if you whack the slingshots like it would still be counting as points but it's not the flippers are dead correct i was able to plunge a ball but the flippers are just dead um the display will just die mid-game um and like all of this stuff it here's here's what's up i cannot recommend this game if you are an operator if you've already put your deposit on it and you and you're going to have it at home they're most likely going to fix all of this stuff but this is all very similar stuff we used to see with spooky oh i mean it's almost like verbatim and and i mean these are ex spooky guys so i mean you this this you know it's genetics right the same problem is jumping from company to company if you if you if you're pulling people from the company, like Spooky. But Spooky is doing well now, just like I raved about Evil Dead. But these are all the same kind of issues that you get hit with when you only have one guy coding, and he has to be overwhelmed. uh but uh yeah but like it makes it really hard to recommend this game like if you want to buy this game give it six months um and and all i could also another thing is we and we've always said this you know our game at electric bat our machines are on for almost 24 hours a day I mean, there's like three hours that our machines are not on and not being played. Do you guys have that all on like timer scale? Yeah, it's all on timers. We don't have to be there at 6 a.m. So what time do they shut off? So they're on at 6 a.m. or a little before that. Yeah. And they turn off probably around like 3 a.m. Oh, wow. So those things are getting like. But they get played more than that, especially if it's a popular title. the staff will stay there and play it all night long after they've done their duties. Right. So some of these games are literally played, especially if it's a new game, they're played 24 hours a day. Yeah. So we're going to see issues that a lot of other that a homeowner is definitely not going to see. Yeah. And that other operators that do like humane hours, they're not going to see this kind of stuff. So how has the customer service been? I mean, how have they reacted? Absolutely amazing. David David Van Es called or messaged me. I didn't give him my number, but he's like, I'm hearing that you're not having a great time with Dune. And I messaged him back. Yeah, let's – and I explained to him the only reason I didn't message him at first is just because I've dealt with this kind of stuff before, and I don't think anything can be done about it. This is just a case of where they had to – in any industry, when something like this happens and a company releases a game before it's ready, they need money. and I don't have any kind of insider information. Nobody's told me anything. But you see this in video games, very, very popular CD, Project Red. They released Cyberpunk way before. And then you find out when the story comes out, it was because of the board. They wanted some cash to come in. This was the most talked about title in years, and they wanted to see the cash come in. And so anytime this happens in any industry, especially a company that has released a great product in the past, when you see them do something like this, there's trouble. There's blood in the water, and people start seeing it, start sensing it. uh so a good point though kale it makes me wonder like when we were out there for the twippies and we did their tour for barrels of fun when they brought us over there they were just wrapping up the last labyrinth like that was the last run so you got to think there's a lull between that and when they started production on this and you know you you brought up a good point they got to keep the line moving they got to keep those people employed and um And maybe there was some like, hey, we can't really be without cash for this long. Let's just launch it. But yeah, I mean, maybe that's why. I mean, I look, I actually, you're kind of making me like have a little bit of PTSD because I did buy a Labyrinth and my Labyrinth was, so a game from Barrels of Fun, but my Labyrinth was like serial number, number, or not. It was like Relic, they call them. Mine was like Relic number three. So it was the third game I ever made. and i did it i had to do so much to it to get it to play normal and it was kind of like i was kind of talking to people like hey have anybody know anything about the earlier days like oh yeah they resolved a bunch of stuff and then i found this thread on pin side and it was all these things and after i did it it played great but if you were like if that was in your arcade that'd be you guys tweaking the hell out of it in the beginning and like you need to be making money on it too like you bought it to make money they need money but if it's off the floor that's like what can you do that's not good for anybody yeah and i don't know how you resolve it but you know to me it's kind of like if when you release a game in this state you're screwing your customer base you know like whatever you have to do to keep the you know usually even companies will do this they'll just get a loan you know take you know and i know it's a huge risk get a loan i have friends who own companies that do that they'll get a loan to make payroll and then and then they you know they they make it up on the long end because they they believe by the end of the year they're gonna make things right um but like kind of like screwing your customers over is to me it's just rude and and i you know i have friends that are that work at activision i have friends that work at other companies that beta test games but they get paid for it you know i'm i'm having to pay for this with my time i'm i don't remember the last time i had to refund money like this to people It's a headache, but hopefully they get it together. And if you want to see this company survive, put your down payment on this thing as sort of a good faith effort. But right now, I can't recommend it. That breaks my heart. But in the business world, I'm a recruiter, right? And so my product, unfortunately, is a person. But I always say in the sales world, Ralph probably knows this phrase as well, when things are great, it's easy. Don't judge me when things are great. Judge me when things are bad. Judge me how I react to those bad things. And that's what I'm hoping that they do, right? I'm hoping they say, okay, maybe a few of these dunes that went out weren't ready, okay? And maybe we weren't ready for the code. and maybe whatever the case may be, and that they rectify this because it sounds like the customer service is excellent, and let's keep that going and make these fixes so that people can enjoy these games because it is damn beautiful, and the mechs are awesome, and it needs to be perfect, you know. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, the customer service has been great. David, as soon as I called him back, he immediately picked up. Yeah. And he – that – as soon as he got off the phone with me, he had a package sent to Electric Bat Arcade with new coils to replace the ones that burned up. And he said, put some other stuff in the package. We'll see. Maybe I'll do a reveal when I get it. Oh, he didn't send it. He sent it. You haven't gotten it yet. I haven't gotten it. Yeah, this conversation just happened today. Oh, okay. But I believe – they're great people, and I think they're just so far behind the eight ball that they're kind of in panic mode. And David David Van Es has said this, and I actually told him to stop saying this, but he's been on podcasts saying, you have to remember, we're a small crew. We're a small crew. Who's the last person that used to go around the podcast and say that over and over? That was David Fix, and we know where he is now. He kept telling people, hey, we're just a small crew. We're just a small crew. Work with us. That's okay if I'm not giving you $12,000. Yeah, that to me, if I'm the consumer and I hear that over and over again, and I know there's some problems, I'm going to be like, man, I'm losing confidence that they don't even have the staff to support this thing. That's what I would say. And I'm not suggesting they lie, but that's not something you need to constantly remind everybody. Just make it right. Appear larger than you are. Just get it done for people, and then that won't matter. But to keep reminding you, oh, I only have like two people here. I don't know. If this dude's on vacation, we're screwed. This is an all-hands-on-deck situation. And I think David needs to stop traveling around and promoting this game. He needs to get in the factory and make sure that when he is taking $12,000 from somebody, they're getting a game that's not going to catch on fire. You know, that's that's and and here's the thing. Nobody's talking about like modes or call outs or anything, which this game is pretty devoid of. That doesn't even matter. All I'm hearing from people at the arcade is how beautiful it is and how they want to keep putting money in it because they think it's such a cool game. But it's got to work. It's got to work. Yeah. Well, again, I hope – I really hope everything works out with it. I really do. Yeah. I know you do too because you're vested in it, right? You're vested in it. Your patrons love the machine. They're putting quarters in it. It's earning, right? 100%. It's got to work. And, you know, thank God David reached out and making it happen. Yeah, for sure, for sure. You reminded me with a comment you made about he should be on the factory floor checking the games. When I was out at Jersey Jack and they were – they had only made like – I don't know. There was only like 15 of the games Harry Potter's made, and most of them were like prototypes or one – kind of like working out the kinks. and man between uh dan the mechanical engineer and eric they were like obsessed with each gate they were making sure they were they they noticed like i watched him like he was looking at one part of it was like the staircase mech and then dan and eric went over to the station where they were putting it together like hey guys i kind of heard part of the conversation like hey guys i just noticed you're like torquing this thing a little too much or whatever it was and so that he that he's like this is going to be my life for the next two months as we make these because i need to he's He said this to me. He goes, I need to make sure and Dan needs to make sure that they understand how this is built so that we avoid problems in the field. I mean, they were very serious about it. Like, he was in the zone, and I think that's what you have to do. You have to do that. Just like I'm sure Elwin, when Kong was out, he was probably obsessively on that line making sure these things are good. Well, we saw that when we were at the Stern factory. Like, Elwin, there was a party in the lobby. Everybody whose pinball was there. and Elwin is on the line checking these games. Yeah. He actually made a comment. He actually made a comment, something like – he didn't mean it in a – I'm going to say it the way he said it, but he didn't say it. It's going to sound like it's a jerky way, but that's not what it meant. I asked him. He showed us – remember the one game that was on the floor but the play field was popped up? That was going to be the first one that he certified. Yes. And I said, oh, is this one – what's up with this one? He's like, I love hanging out with you guys, But as soon as you're out of here, like I got to start going through these games. Like it was like he's like I got he's like, look, I'm not trying to be rude, but I got to get like people are going to play these. Like I got to come back out here, which I expected that he said that it wasn't in a jerk way. He's like, he's love you guys. But this is what I got to do. It's my job. So, yeah. Yeah. You got to get your priorities right. Well, I don't know what to say. by the way i don't none of us are saying like i don't know maybe maybe david's got someone at the factory but but if he did right now then i don't think that we'd be seeing because there's a couple other issues i have a couple other friends that have this game and they're experiencing similar things support is working with them all about yeah support is working with them but you gotta it's gotta be right like especially you got it's so critical because like imagine like i know Turner Pinball is a lot smaller organization than Barrels is. But, because Barrels is making a thousand games, Turner's trying to sell a hundred. But imagine if he released this Merlin's arcade game and it started having issues everywhere. He'd be dead. He'd be totally dead. So they just got to recover from this really quickly. Because I don't think they'll be dead. They just need to react quickly and fix it. There's still time to fix all this. I hate ending on this. No, I'm going to – you know how I'm going to end it? Cale. How are you going to end this? I want to hear – you weren't – Cale. It is your show. That's right. Yeah, Cale, do you know what Jamie did during the Kong thing? So while we're at the – were you aware of this? I don't know if you were near us when this was happening. I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. So big deal. Kong launch. Everyone's hyped up. We just got there, so no one should be tired at this point. Everyone should have energy, right? We just got there. We're pumped up. Yeah, we had breakfast. It was a lovely breakfast. We had food. We ate that beautiful breakfast that the waitress made fun of me for not finishing. That's okay. That's not part of the story. So we get in the room, and Elwin's doing this great job. We've got Jeremy Packers over there. Gomez is over there. And Elwin's taking – he's got the stage. He's telling us about the game. Cale, we're not even ten minutes in. uh hey guys uh hey elwyn uh i didn't say anything this is great information but uh jamie's kind of tired right now so i'm just gonna sit down over here at this table kickback a little bit you keep going though like it's good info everyone it's good but i'm gonna take a nap and i watched jamie jamie has this thing where he he leaves his body like if you can see it on his face so jamie is now floating above Jamie's physical body. Yeah. And, like, Jamie, the body is just practically falling asleep. Right. I'm like, Jamie, what are you doing, man? He said, this is just part of my process. I'm like, what? No, I was doing fine. We're 15 minutes in. We're all standing. Okay? Seth's there. You know, Gomez. Everyone was there, by the way. Everyone's there. Okay? and you start asking questions about spike two versus spike three, and I can see myself leaving my body of disinterest. Yeah, you left. You were gone. It was like a ghost. This is the most I don't give a shit about spike two and five. So I exhausted you basically. You did it. My questioning exhausted you, and you needed a nap for my questioning. I was just like, oh, my God. How long are we going to stand here? listen to spike 2.5 and and what is this this means nothing to us we want to play the game let us give you everything jamie we gave you caffeine we gave you diet coke you had zin i don't know what else we could have given you we had you perfectly prepped to handle this meeting with elwynn and you once you ask those questions and then all of a sudden everyone's on the spike to my body just said it's over i just love it that i could see it it was like you know when someone sees something and they start getting pale and their expression's gone it happened i was like hey buddy all right i was like yeah i'm all right i'm just not with us jamie tell me when it's time to go play tell me when it's time to play all right i'll tell you a funny story you ready this This is not pinball related, okay? We'll end on this if we can. No no we have to end on you can end on this but we have one more thing We need to do that rating thing We need to do the rating thing but that will be end So we going to be a long pinball podcast That our stick I in Chicago this weekend Janine grandmother and uncle had passed and it was the celebration of life. Her uncle was elderly and her grandmother was 100. So it was a nice celebration. All right. No worries. So Janine's parents visited. That's her mom's side. On her dad's side we went to his house and it was dad and her two brothers and janine we had donuts went out to breakfast and then we came back to the house and we're watching the cubs game and i looked to the brothers kale i sort of got and i go hey do you guys mind if i go take a nap have you ever slept at this house before ever no i've never been in this house as a brand I've never been there. I haven't seen them in two years. So wait, you've never been to this house? No. You're like, hey, can I take a nap in your house? They had an extra room. All right. I went to the restroom and I saw they had an extra room. So I go to the brothers first because they're cool. And I said, do you think, would you guys mind at all if I took a little nap? And Janine is mortified at this point. And then her dad, who's the sweetest person in the world, is like, you want to go take a nap, Jamie? You go take a nap. Yeah. And so I went. I took an hour nap while they visited as a family, and then they woke me up, and then we left. And so I think, Ralph, I think the issue is, like, maybe Jamie is right on the cusp of that age where that's okay. Yeah, I'm 52. I don't know. I'm 52. But what did you say? Were you like, hey, guys, I'm really enjoying myself, but I just want to nap out for a little while? Like, how do you even bring that up? I just said, I know my body. I got to drive to O'Hare from the suburbs. I got to return the car. I got to wait on the plane. I can't sleep on planes. This is my window, guys. This is my window. I need to try this. I want to try this with someone. It just didn't occur to me, Ralph and Kale, that this was a bad thing that I was doing. like it just didn't occur to me i just thought hey they're a family they're together i'm a i'm the fifth wheel let me just go sleep for a little bit so then on the way home on the way to o'hare i'm driving and i look at her she's so sweet and i go hey was that rude she's like a little bit i think so a little bit i don't think it's rude right i mean here's the thing you listen to your you listen to your body jamie yes i know you needed a nap i needed a nappy poo and uh it it really it it propelled me for the rest of the day i had a good flight everything else worked out so i want to thank terry o'neill for letting me sleep i didn't go under the covers let me let you know that okay i slept on top of the comforter okay and i grabbed the pillow from an extra pillow and I put it on top. Yeah. Totally acceptable, I say. I applaud you for doing this because you don't know how many times I'm having a conversation with somebody and I would love to say, hey, you mind if I go take a nap? Hey, listen, my body is telling me that I got to go. You're amazing. My body's telling me and I listen to it. That's how I've gotten to 52 years. My body says it's over. So I love you. I'm going to take one. Thanks so much. You guys keep talking. And that's what we did. All right, we've got one more topic. I'm going to introduce this concept in my life somehow. I'm going to find a way. Do you have another topic? So you asked me, Jamie, you said, how would you rate Harry Potter? You asked me, and then it kind of got – we were having a phone conversation, and then it kind of got into like, all right, well, what games do you want me to rate it against? Then you were like, Evil Dead, Kong, Harry Potter, D&D, because I have all those. That's right. I don't have Harry Potter yet, but I will. So he was like, rate them. And I was like, hmm. Because I do stand by. So I'm going to give you my ratings. So that's the, and everyone's going to go through and have to give their rating. And I know that you guys haven't played Harry Potter. I know, but so do you want mine and then you don't care? Or what do you? Let's see where it goes. Let's get yours. So here's the thing. I'm going to list them. Don't start first. Oh, you want what? I want to go five. Do it like Rachel. Rachel, reverse. Reverse order. You teach us how to do this, okay? Don't we listen to the number one podcast? Okay? She's the best. She's taught you how to do this. Come on. I got it. So I'm going to probably shock people with the list, but this is the current list based on the current state of everything, right? So current code, current everything. All right. So my last on the list right now, which is shocking probably to you, is D&D. The next one on the list, again, current code level where it is right now and how much fun I'm having with the game, is Kong. Then Potter, and again, current code, because who knows, those could flip-flop. Kong could overcome Potter really easily, and then it's Evil Dead. So Evil Dead is my number one. In my game lineup right now, Evil Dead is still my number one. But if I go based on current games that I have in my collection, then it'd go Evil Dead, Kong, D&D, because Potter doesn't exist yet, technically, in my collection. And are you just talking code? What's going on? Just my enjoyment of the game. Oh, okay. And we can only use those games? Yeah, because Eureka Heights has those as well. So let's say between D&D, Kong. Well, then why don't we leave Potter out of it for now? Why is it just Evil Dead, Kong, D&D? It's not fair to rate Potter if we've never played it. That's right. Then Evil Dead, Kong, D&D. Or not like other hosts that just, you know, music clips. So, okay. What are yours, Cal, out of those four? Three. It's only three, right? Three? Evil Dead Kong and D&D. Those are the games. Rating. Okay, so it would be three, two, one. You're going to be surprised, probably. Number three is Evil Dead Okay Did I surprise you? Yeah I'm going to be surprised I'm not surprised I think I know your order Number two is King Kong And drumroll Dungeons and Dragons Dungeons and Dragons You did surprise me I thought you were going to go Kong number one And D&D two You did D&D number one yeah and you know i'm biased because it's the one we have at the house and we're spending the most time with man dnd is freaking amazing it is great holy crap like we're rachel and i are sitting at home playing this game and we're just like blown away it really feels like we're on an adventure and and there's so much to do yes there are some little glitches in the most recent game code This thing is far from complete, but it functions. It works. I mean, when you see what this thing does, we have the dragon that moves around, the gelatinous cube, all this stuff. I mean, it is amazing. It really shows you that Stern is cruising the interstate in a Ferrari with the top down, and everybody else is riding a donkey. Oh, boy. It is just – I mean these guys know how to make a fucking pinball machine. They do. No, it's true. There's no question. And Evil Dead, as much as I rave about Evil Dead, there's this magic that Stern has. I think it just comes from doing this for so much longer than everybody else that they just – from the top down, the feel, the – you wanting to put another quarter in. like no no manufacturer comes close you bring up you made me think of something that so so when my buddy rudy came over last night we were playing a bunch of games we played evil dead we played kong we played avatar and uh i did ask him this question i was like hey because he's like man he said something similar to what you just said you're on kong and he's like man there's just something about like stern games and i'm like i'm like i know where he's going with this and i'm like what is it he's like i don't know man it just seems like he's like the whole format and presentation he's like it's consistent from games of what i'm gonna expect and he's like in that that it feels right to me like he's like it feels this is his words he's like it feels complete to me um and he and he said the presentation of it feels like um what's the word i'm looking for uh what's what's when you when you like when you have something and it's just easy to use what is that called that term like when something's easy to use it's like intuitive he's like it's intuitive to me yes and then i go all right what else he's like and the other thing i can't get over and kale you've talked about this for so many times on so many podcasts and i agree with you he's like when i hit the fucking he said fucking he's like when i hit the fucking button the flipper feels like it's going off when i hit it he's like it he's like zero latency he's like there probably is latency but it my brain doesn't doesn't pick up on it it's just boom he's like that and the power and he goes and that's what i go and then i had a little bit of a like tried to counter argue with him i'm like but what if jersey jacks wanted them to be like that he's like well then he's like he's like i don't know what to tell you he goes but that i can't get used to that he's like so he he thinks that anything prior to um i'm not going to get into because Jamie will leave his body. But there is a reason why the newer Jersey Jacks are more snappy. I'm not going to get into why. But he's like, I'm cool with the ones pre, you know, whatever the date is. But he's like, anything backdated, he's like, they just don't feel right to me. And I can't – I get it, though. I get what he's talking about. All right, here's mine. You ready? I was like, hold on. Let me just tell you a bunch of shit. Oh, my God. It is his podcast. On the driver board, there's these two capacitors on the driver board. I know. I sucked my body. I was floating above my head. Hold up. No, no. We got to see. You can't just go over that. I don't know. Because that is why their flippers are more powerful. Yes, on the IO driver board. Why does Jamie have a problem with it? I'll say it fast so Jamie doesn't leave his body. On the IO driver board, on the Jersey Jack and that big board on the back, there's four capacitors. Correct. On the older one, they're all the same size. I don't remember the value of them. But on the newer driver boards, the top two are much larger, and those control the power to the solenoids and the coils for the flippers. So it just gives them more power. That's really all it is. And there's kits you can buy to back rev your old ones that Jersey Jack doesn't sell. It's like some third-party guy sells it. It's called like JJT. Do you guys mind if I take a nap for a little bit? Dude, you don't even remotely excited about this a little bit? so they the first game that leave jersey jack with this updated board was elton john correct yes uh no um no it was um hold on i'll pull it i got it really really fast because i was just doing research and i was almost going to do a video on it and i didn't um it wasn't godfather it had father had it um no it did not they said it did hold on are you sure yeah um okay oh i'll tell you real quick because i if you look at the part number keep saying real quick i don't know no i got it okay so the part the gut the game that did the games that did not have the updated driver board so those flippers should feel crappy is guns and roses willy wonka pirates of the caribbean dialed in hobbit the ones that did have it supposedly was toy story 4 godfather elton john and avatar now some could have left the factory potentially without it but godfather if you look at the direct replacement for the godfather board it is the new board with the two bigger caps where are you getting this information from i i don't think toy story 4 had the upgraded board it does but the thing is who's who's it says it does where are you getting this oh it's it's on pinball life it's like they're they're okay but i can check marco for the same part to see if they say the same thing. But so I'm basically looking up what is the direct replacement for the IO driver board with the new one. And the ones that are not direct is like Guns N' Roses, Willy Wonka, Pirates, Dialed In, Hobbit. Those have the old part number. You can put them in there to upgrade them, or you can go with, there's this dude called Flip Mods. If you go to his site, he tells you, basically says, JJP recently released, this is old info now. Now, JJP recently released an IO driver board that has been used in recent games, including Toy Story 4, Godfather, and Elton John. And it says the board's almost identical except for the capacitors at C701 and 702 and blah, blah, blah. And it gives you the tech specs. So they do – it does claim that Godfather had it in same with Toy Story 4. Who knows? Hey, chat, let us know. Yeah. I'll let you know. I swear, I thought like they started doing that when Steve Ritchie was designing Elton John. Yeah, that's what I thought. That's what I thought too, but then I started doing the research. Yeah. Now, they might have done some code things too, right? They might have had those big caps, but maybe it didn't make a difference because the code wasn't adequately – I don't know. That could be – I also heard that that board was not used in Avatar because it was actually designed before Elton John, and they didn't want to – Yeah, that's the same rumor that I heard. I think that's a rumor, though, because my board in my Avatar has the two large caps. Okay, you checked. And it feels decent. But then if you go play Stern right next to it, it screws you all up because Stern is just more – Stern's so good, bro. It's snappy. Just buy a Stern, man. A bunch of shells. If you don't want any problems, just buy a damn shirt. We'll have so much fun with them. You're both shills. All right. I didn't say. Why am I a shill? I didn't say. I don't know. I just want to call you shills. Now they're going to clip it, and I'm going to have to hear all this bullshit. Then I'm going to call you up, Jamie. All right. My three, you idiots. Oh, I forgot we're doing this. Yeah, real quick, and then I'm ending it. You back on your body? I go Kong, D&D, Evil Dead. That's the most I'm playing. Wait, what order did you do that in? Kong is third, and D&D, then Evil Dead. I'm playing the most Evil Dead right now. And if they would just have an Insider connected, I would be playing it like a lunatic. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, more. We haven't talked about how awesome Kong is, but I think we're going to have to save that for another episode. We're going to have to. You're right. We could do a quick round the horn. No. No? Come on, man. We could do a quick round the horn. People will listen to an hour and a half of us. It's almost two. We're going to point two. We're going to be in two hours. Yeah, two is pushing it. I just made fun of someone for doing a two-hour podcast. If we do it, then I'm making fun of us. No, no. It's like a reverse-o. Oh, if we're doing it, it's cool. If they're doing it, it's not cool. I get it. We only do this once a month, though. So, I mean, it is, you know, you could pace it out. You could do two long walks while you're here. Give the people what they want, Jamie. It's a pretty damn long walk. Yeah, well, you should always listen on 1.5 anyway. Don't listen on 1.0. That's a rookie move, a podcast listener. You've got to listen on 1.5. Do you want to talk about Kong then, just real quick? I've heard your tip about speeding up the podcast. I couldn't do it because people sound weird. Nah, they sound better. I sound so good at 1.5. I really like it. I really like the way I sound at 1.5. 2.0, I'm a lunatic. I sound like an idiot. Yeah. But 1.5, all the ums and oohs, just smooth and quick. Okay. You know? Yeah. Orbiter Albert today, he was in a tub. I was listening to him in a tub. Are you kidding? He was in a bathtub? He was in a bathtub today. Man, I love that guy. But on 1.5. So we're going to talk about Kong? This is me on 1.5. What's going on, guys? Oh, my gosh. That shot, the helix shot is badass, bro. Love that helix shot. All right. How did you do that? That was a good one. You have it on yours, too. Oh, I don't know how to do anything. All right, whatever, YoloBox 201, 301. Oh, is that what it – that was a YoloBox? No, no. No, no, no, no. Jamie doesn't even talk to me anymore about YoloBox because apparently he's, like, part of the, like, development team over at YoloBox now. He took too long to answer my questions, so I just spent all night trying to figure it out. Can you hook the YoloBox up to, like, Mr. Fusion and feed it garbage to power it instead of plutonium? I'm like, I don't know, dude. Like, what are you even talking about? Who's that? That was Kale. All right, we've lost control. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much. No, do we have something else? I thought you wanted to give the people a little bit of Kong, no? I mean, Kong is great. I like the upper ramp. It's fine. He's ready for a nap, Cale. We'll do it next episode. Kong's awesome. We'll talk about it. Kong is good. No, I mean, it makes the top three. I play the shit out of Kong, okay? I'm just saying, I play a lot more D&D, and then I play a hell of a lot of Evil Dead, because I really like it, and congrats to them. Well, we're probably going to get in trouble again. No worries. Seems to be par for course for this reason. We do. I don't think we did any bad. No. Did we? I don't think so. No, no, no. I think we'll be fine. I think we'll be fine. You know, I think everything is great. God bless pinball, and God bless you both. Where can we follow you, Ralph, with your multiple channels? Retro Ralph on YouTube Or my Flipside podcast Which is on a channel on YouTube Called Retro Ralph Live It's also on Spotify and Apple Podcasts If you just type in The Flipside with Retro Ralph you'll find it And of course Kale Hernandez at the Electric Bat With his beautiful wife Rachel And they have the Electric Batcast And then of course The Best Arcade in America at the Electric Bat In Tempe, Arizona And don't forget twitch.tv slash electric bat arcade. You can watch some of our past streams. It's a lot of fun. Excuse me. It's a lot of fun. And we have the pinball savant, Serge, you know, commentating most of those. You really do. If Serge could move to Houston and be on my new stream that I'm going to start in July, I would steal him in two seconds. Sure. He can work remotely. He is a genius. and if you're not checking out the lecture about it on Twitch, you're making a mistake because it really is good. Alright boys, that's all she wrote. We'll see you next time. Who's got the next episode? I do. Back to you. Better make it good. Ralph made a banger episode. He did. He had a good outline and we tried to keep it moving as much as humanly possible. so god bless you uh thank you everyone for listening the support on the jbs show for this not only my shows but uh for the round table has just been fantastic thousands and thousands of downloads and it's just been unbelievable boys and i thank you so much for uh coming into this uh podcast adventure with me i appreciate it bro thank you i'm enjoying it yeah it's awesome dude i love these two clowns we have a hard time saying bye huh i know we do we do when we talk on the phone too let's do the call thing no i'm just kidding all right we gotta go let's get out of here jamie's got a nap good night goodbye thank you _(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_ --- *Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: fd63f7e3-7fdc-4309-8e95-f0110b7a079e*