# #002 If You’ve Ever Thought “Where Do People Even Play Pinball?”, Start Here

**Source:** Punk Rock Pinball Podcast  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2025-07-07  
**Duration:** 21m 30s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://share.transistor.fm/s/84eba69c

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## Analysis

Stephanie and Mike from Punk Rock Pinball discuss the Pinball Map app as an essential tool for finding pinball machines at venues worldwide, sharing personal experiences using it during tours and travels. They highlight how the app helps players locate specific machines, discover venues with active tournament scenes, and explore pinball culture. The episode also features a 'dream theme' game discussion where they debate hypothetically preserving either Pulp Fiction, Big Lebowski, or Elvira pinball machines, ultimately choosing Big Lebowski, followed by Mike pitching a minimalist Weezer Blue Album pinball game concept.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Pinball Map is available on Android and iPhone with the ability to search by city, find machines by title, and displays venue locations with machine counts. — _Stephanie describing Pinball Map features at the start of the episode_
- [MEDIUM] Pinball on Perry in Indiana has one of the first Evil Dead machines with a single-digit serial number. — _Mike discussing a venue west of Indianapolis with rare machines; speaker mentions knowing someone who works at Pinball on Perry_
- [MEDIUM] A Portland venue (Next Level Arcade/Pinball Museum) has approximately 600 total arcade and pinball machines, with around 340 pinball machines. — _Stephanie recounting her experience during a tour with The Get Up Kids_
- [HIGH] Looking for venues that host monthly tournaments is a reliable indicator of well-maintained machines because operators/techs actively maintain them. — _Stephanie giving advice on finding quality venues_
- [MEDIUM] James Bond pinball original software is not fun compared to current software updated by Mike Vinacore. — _Mike discussing finding a venue with outdated software and crediting Vinacore's updates_

### Notable Quotes

> "Download the pinball map app on your phone and then see what's out there. A lot of breweries have them."
> — **Stephanie**, early
> _Core recommendation for pinball discovery, framing the app as gateway to the hobby_

> "It's super bummer to me... when you go to places and find a pinball machine and it is just so neglected... I think not everybody knows how great it is to play on a nice machine that's maintained."
> — **Mike**, mid
> _Highlights operator/maintenance culture and quality-of-experience issues in the community_

> "You're deciding for all of pinball, which machine gets to continue to exist... Pulp Fiction."
> — **Stephanie**, late
> _Resolves the 'Sophie's Choice' dream theme scenario, revealing personal preference among iconic licensed games_

> "It's going to be Weezer, and it's going to be the Blue Album. Just the Blue Album."
> — **Mike**, late
> _Dream game pitch with specific artistic and design constraints, shows understanding of pinball theme execution_

> "We're just trying to spread the word. Just trying to spread the word. Grow the hobby. Grow the sport."
> — **Stephanie and Mike**, late
> _Mission statement for the podcast and community outreach_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Pinball Map | product | Crowdsourced app and website for locating public pinball machines globally; primary topic of discussion |
| Stephanie | person | Co-host of Punk Rock Pinball podcast; touring musician; pinball player and enthusiast |
| Mike | person | Co-host of Punk Rock Pinball podcast; Stern pinball code rules designer (James Bond, X-Men, John Wick); also a rock photographer known as MXV and The Punk Vault |
| Mike Vinacore | person | Stern pinball code designer credited with improving James Bond software and working on X-Men and John Wick rules updates |
| Pinball on Perry | organization | Pinball arcade venue in Indiana (west of Indianapolis, near Attica); known for rare limited edition Sterns and Jersey Jack collector's editions |
| Next Level Arcade | organization | Large pinball and arcade venue in Portland, Oregon with ~600 total machines including ~340 pinball machines |
| The Get Up Kids | organization | Touring band that Stephanie performed with; toured extensively allowing use of Pinball Map to find venues |
| Ruben | person | Toured with Stephanie and played at Next Level Arcade in Portland |
| Josh | person | Toured with Stephanie and played at Next Level Arcade in Portland |
| CJ | person | Tournament director in central Illinois (Peoria); operates 12-14 machines at Landmark bowling and recreation center; runs tournaments |
| John Borg | person | Pinball machine designer known for music-themed games including Metallica, Rush, and Kiss; possibly an arena rock enthusiast |
| Jack Danger | person | Pinball designer credited with Foo Fighters machine |
| Keith Elwin | person | Pinball designer credited with Jaws game |
| Mark Seiden | person | Jersey Jack Pinball designer; mentioned as potential designer for hypothetical Weezer machine |
| Stern Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer; mentioned as preferred manufacturer for music-themed games and Weezer concept |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer; mentioned as alternative manufacturer for music games, known for light shows |
| Spooky Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer; noted as focusing on horror/movie themes rather than music pins |
| Punk Rock Pinball | organization | Podcast and Facebook community group hosted by Stephanie and Mike; mission to connect music, pinball, and touring musicians |
| Landmark | organization | Bowling and recreation center in Peoria, Illinois where CJ operates 12-14 pinball machines and hosts tournaments |
| Pinball Expo | event | Annual pinball industry event in Schaumburg, Illinois; advertised at UK venue visited by speakers |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Pinball machine discovery and location tools, Pinball venues and operator maintenance culture, Community outreach and growing the hobby
- **Secondary:** Licensed theme design and game aesthetics, Pinball code updates and rule design, Touring musicians and pinball as travel companion activity, Dream game concept design
- **Mentioned:** Rare machines and collector venues

### Sentiment

**Positive** (0.82) — Enthusiastic discussion about tools and venues that enable pinball discovery; passionate about sharing the hobby; lighthearted, playful debate during dream theme segments. Minor note of sadness about neglected machines, but overall encouraging and inclusive tone focused on growth and community.

### Signals

- **[venue_signal]** Pinball Map app highlighted as essential infrastructure for finding public machines and planning pinball tourism; enables touring musicians to explore venues globally. (confidence: high) — Stephanie and Mike extensively discuss app functionality, personal usage during tours in US and UK, and recommend it as first resource for 'pinball curious' people
- **[operational_signal]** Tournament hosting identified as reliable indicator of machine maintenance quality; venues with monthly tournaments have dedicated operators/techs ensuring playability. (confidence: high) — Stephanie: 'if you see a handful of places near you... if they have regular tournaments it means... somebody's there probably maintaining the games'
- **[community_signal]** Punk Rock Pinball podcast and Facebook community explicitly focused on bridging music/touring musician culture with pinball community; encouraging promotion of venues and tournaments. (confidence: high) — Episode framing and call-to-action for touring musicians, venue operators, and tournament directors to join Facebook group and cross-promote
- **[code_update]** James Bond pinball software updates by Mike Vinacore credited with transforming game quality from 'not fun' original to 'super fun' current state; X-Men and John Wick updates recently released. (confidence: high) — Mike: 'the original software on James Bond is not fun. But the current software on James Bond is super fun, thanks to Mike Vinacore.' Also mentions Vinacore working on X-Men and John Wick with updates just released.
- **[design_philosophy]** Discussion of music-themed pinball design reveals preference for minimalist aesthetic (simple art, clean sideart) contrasted with busy themes; emphasis on integration of band visual assets and mechanics tied to album/song imagery. (confidence: medium) — Mike pitching Weezer Blue Album concept with emphasis on simplicity, using Blue Album Tour graphics, incorporating song-specific mechanics (sweater multiball, skateboard, ball saver vocal callouts)
- **[design_innovation]** Proposed Weezer machine concept demonstrates creative mechanical design tied to song lyrics and album imagery: sweater/spool multiball, car/skateboard flip toy, vocal callouts matching song content. (confidence: medium) — Mike developing detailed mechanics: 'sweater multi-ball where there's like a spool... you fill this spool with thread and then that kicks in the sweater multi-ball you've destroyed the sweater' and 'car bash toy that then flips over and it's a skateboard'
- **[product_strategy]** Music-themed pinball positioning: Stern preferred as primary manufacturer (has track record with Metallica, Kiss, Rush, Foo Fighters), Jersey Jack as secondary option, Spooky reserved for horror/movie content. (confidence: high) — Discussion of designer capabilities: John Borg (Stern), Jack Danger (Foo Fighters), Keith Elwin (Jaws); Mike: 'for a music pin, I'd want Stern first and Jersey Jack second'
- **[venue_signal]** Pinball Map usage in UK indicated venue presence and pinball expo marketing reaching international locations; Birmingham, England venue featured Pinball Expo banner advertising Schaumburg, Illinois event. (confidence: medium) — Stephanie: 'we found that place in Birmingham... they had like a stand-up banner thing for the pinball expo... that's just up the road from us'
- **[collector_signal]** Pinball on Perry identified as collector destination with early-production machines (Evil Dead single-digit serial), all limited edition Sterns, and Jersey Jack collector's editions in pristine condition. (confidence: medium) — Mike describing venue west of Indianapolis: 'all of his sterns are like limited editions. The Jersey Jacks are collectors editions everything's in great shape... the games all work great they're clean'
- **[content_signal]** Punk Rock Pinball podcast positioning itself as bridge between music touring culture and pinball community; encouraging participation from musicians, venue operators, and tournament directors. (confidence: high) — Call-to-action at episode end: 'if you have a pinball location or if you're like a tournament director... if you're a rocker in a band and you're like doing a tour we encourage you to join the group'
- **[rumor_hype]** Rumors of pinball returning to Bloomington, Illinois after previous venue closure; indicates local community interest in venue restoration. (confidence: low) — Mike: 'there's rumors that there might be pinball in Bloomington again soon' after noting Night Shop closure
- **[sentiment_shift]** Community frustration with neglected/poorly-maintained machines at venues; recognition that non-enthusiasts may not appreciate difference between maintained and degraded machines. (confidence: high) — Mike: 'It's super bummer to me... when you go to places and find a pinball machine and it is just so neglected... I think not everybody knows how great it is to play on a nice machine that's maintained'

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## Transcript

 All right, we're back for another episode of Punk Rock Pinball. I'm Stephanie. I'm Mike. And today, Mike, we should talk a little bit about how you can find places to play pinball. It was kind of awesome when I don't even know how we found out about it. You just start to go down these rabbit holes about pinball. and one of the first I guess it's an app that I put on the phone was pinball map yeah the pinball map app it's out there on android and iphone and all you do is you punch in like a city I think it's got a little thing you can just click and it'll show you what's near you but you can just type in any city and it's pretty accurate to show you like every place that has pinball machines and i'll tell you how many and what what machines are there it's super cool too have you used the function where you if you want to find a specific machine you can punch that in and zoom in you know zoom in zoom out try to find a specific machine if you want to play like the jaws 50th when it hits the market yeah or like a more obscure one like if you want to play the new dune game there's very few of those around although i know because the pinball map and also i know a guy that works there the pinball and perry in indiana has a dune so if you're within a couple hours there you might want to go out to pinball on perry and play a dune or you might want to search for where there's an evil dead like because the modern sterns you can find those most places but there might be like an older one or an older bally williams like you type that in find a place near you go take a road trip yeah we've done that a couple times it was really fun when we went out to attica in um indiana to go play the evil dead when it first came out i feel like they were one of the first i think he got one of the first machines yeah i think his is numbered in the single digits pretty sure it's a single digit numbered machine i gotta say if anybody is ever driving, I guess it's west of Indianapolis towards Illinois, it's definitely worth a stop. They're only open a couple days a week, I think Thursday, Friday, Saturday maybe. But what a collection that guy has. It's pretty much any LE that's been released and a lot of really rare games as well. Yeah, all of his sterns are like limited editions. The Jersey Jacks are collectors editions everything's in great shape uh like the games all work great they're clean and yeah the pinball map so the last year or so i was i've been on the road touring a bunch uh we've done some headlining tours we're out on a really long one with the get up kids last year and i used the pinball map a ton and found some really cool places like I was out in we're playing in Portland and I looked at the map and I found this place next level I don't know if it's next level arcade or pinball museum I don't know what they call it but there's like 600 some total machines between arcade and pin pinball machines there's like 300 I don't even know now, 340 pinball machines. And so me and Ruben and Josh went and we only had a couple hours there. But, man, their game, they have almost every game you can think of. And played for two hours. It felt like two minutes. It does that. Well, we did it, too, last August when we were in the U.K. We used that. Oh, yeah. And we found that place in Birmingham, which was pretty cool. We took a train from wherever we were staying. Yeah, we were like a half hour outside of there by train. Uh-huh. Yeah, it's been kind of cool to use that to explore around. And it was pretty hilarious, too, just playing in the U.K. There weren't as many places as there are in the U.S., but it was kind of fun to go there last summer and even see some banners and stuff that were advertising the pinball expo in Schaumburg, Illinois that fall. Yeah, the place we played in Birmingham, Robert Englunds had like a stand-up banner thing for the pinball expo. And I was like, that's just up the road from us. But like if you're getting into – if you're pinball curious and you're like, yeah, I want to try playing pinball. Where can I play pinball? Download the pinball map app on your phone and then see what's out there. A lot of breweries have them. If you're in Chicagoland, there's tons of different breweries. there's that pin grounds place that just opened a coffee place that's so cool noon whistle has them up there near chicago interium interium we play if you're in central illinois we play at landmark it like a bowling and recreation center and our friend cj has 12 or 14 games at landmark like a mix of like modern sterns and some classic ballets and stuff That where we play That in Peoria Yeah that in Peoria Illinois We used to have, Night Shop here used to have games, but they closed. But there's some stuff in the works. There's rumors. There's rumors that there might be pinball in Bloomington again soon. But wherever you live, just pop up the pinball map. See what's out there. and a lot of times people even kind of write notes on like what the condition of the games are and kind of pro tip if you see a handful of places near you go to their instagrams or their facebook pages and see if it's a place that has like regular tournaments because if they have regular tournaments it means like somebody's there probably maintaining the games because the games need to work if tournaments are happening there. So I would try to find a place that has at least like a monthly tournament because it means there's like an operator or a tech that's going around and making sure the games work. Yeah, it's like a super bummer to me. I mean, we still play them, but when you go to places, maybe you find them on a pinball map or you just kind of stumble upon a pinball machine and it is just so neglected. It's just like so sad because I think not everybody knows how great it is to play on a nice machine that's maintained. Maybe a flipper is broken or the drop targets are gone or the lights aren't working, and it kind of makes me sad. Or it's on five-year-old software. Yeah. We played it. I won't name the venue, but we played it. James Bond had the original software, and if you know that machine, the original software on James Bond is not fun. But the current software on James Bond is super fun, thanks to Mike Vinikour. Yeah. He knows fun. He knows fun. We have to have Mike on the show someday. Mike works for Stern. He does a lot of the rules for a lot of the games. He did a lot of the James Bond rules, and he's working on X-Men and John Wick right now, doing cool stuff for those. Yeah, those updates just came out. They're super cool. Yeah, so we've got to get Mike on here and have a chat about game code and rules. And music. In music, Mike is also like a rock photographer. I think his Instagram handle is The Punk Vault. Yeah. He's known as MXV. If you've ever hit an MXV skill shot, that's Mike. But he's a kick-ass photographer. He's been shooting bands for years. So he's also into punk rock, hence the punk rock pinball. Mike, you've got to come on. so pin side or not pin side um pinball map it is if you are pinball curious like mike said you got to check that out find some pinball near your house and i'm gonna say don't be curious don't be um don't be afraid if you see a tournament yeah we can do a different episode on that all right we should talk about tournaments it kind of changed our pinball life yeah it did and that's Thanks to our buddy CJ here, runs all the tournaments. But we'll have an episode talking about tournaments. But we can go now. We've covered the pinball map. You should download it if you don't have it. If you're like a serious player, you probably already have it, and you're probably like, yeah, no shit. But if you're pinball curious, download that. We're just trying to spread the word. Just trying to spread the word. Grow the hobby. Grow the sport. It's a sport. It kind of is. It's not a hobby. It's a sport. Dream theme. Oh, no, you choose. Did you ask me last time? So I have to ask you a you choose. And I had one. We were just outside having a smoke, and I had one, and now I've forgotten it. But I got to think one up. Okay, you choose. Let's see. You should have told me outside. Okay, you can buy. the cost of the machine is irrelevant. Prices are irrelevant. You choose. You can have a Pulp Fiction pinball machine. I love that game. I know. You could have a Big Lebowski pinball machine. I like that one too. Or you could have the Elvira pinball machine. You choose one. Is it the Blood Red Edition? Any of them. oh wow that's really a tough choice because i really love the pulp fiction i have a lot of fun playing that one it doesn't get old for me lebowski is just great again what an awesome choice for a pinball machine it's a great movie and i feel like they did a pretty good job integrating that. And it's also challenging with that to start the modes that scoop on the left makes me crazy. It's harder than the Godzilla scoop. I think that Lebowski scoop. I don't know if probably a lot of people haven't played that one, but there's a scoop on the left. Once you qualified a mode to start it like way on the left super hard to hit Oh my God But I love it I love it And then it has the sub play field where you can bowl It's super cool. You should look up those games on the pinball map because they're really fun to play. And then, I mean, Elvira, she's just cool. And the game is great. And the call outs are great. Oh, man. Mm-hmm. It's tough when you only can have one. And if you get one, you can never have the other two. Oh, my God. You're changing the rules on me now, Mike. You can never get the other two. You can never get the other two. You only can have one of those three. And then all the others of those other two are destroyed. You can't ever have them. You can't ever. No one can have them. But people who have them can keep them. People who have them can keep them, but no one else can ever get one. So you're deciding for all of pinball, which machine gets to continue to exist. Pulp Fiction. I'm changing the question. Pulp Fiction. This is like Sophie's choice now. Big Lebowski or Elvira. Oh, my gosh. All others must be destroyed. I might say there are probably more Elviras out in the world. Definitely. And we know somebody who has one. so I could always play that. We also know somebody else who has, we know two people that have the Lebowski, and we know one person that has the Pulp Fiction. Oh, God. I got to make a choice. All right. I mean, this is just, this is Sophie's choice. I'm going to go Lebowski. Lebowski? Yeah, I'm going Lebowski, even though we know two people who have that machine. I can't disagree. I think Lebowski's maybe – But I love Pulp Fiction. I mean, I think of those – I like to play Elvira the best probably just for fun shooting. I think Elvira is the most fun to shoot, but Lebowski I think has the most you can do. It's great. They're all great. There's tons of modes with the movies. Okay, Lebowski. Stephanie's getting Lebowski. and if you don't have a Pulp Fiction or an Elvira yet, you can't ever get one, sorry. Yeah, just find it on the pinball map. That's the only way you're going to be able to play it. That is it. Yeah. All right, Mike, I get to ask you this time. Okay. Dream theme. Dream theme. I have a couple. We just want to hear about one. I know. I'm trying to think of which one I want to go with this time. I'm going to do the one I'm thinking here. This is going to be polarizing. Oh. This will be a polarizing theme. But I think it would be perfect, and I think for manufacturing this, I'm picking Stern. Stern's going to be the ones that make this the right way. Because you're a shill. Because I'm a Stern shill. Never forget it. It's going to be Weezer, and it's going to be the Blue Album. Just the Blue Album. Okay. Nothing else. No other Weezer songs on there. So the artwork's there. You make that whole machine blue. It just says Weezer on the side, and you use almost the photo from the album cover on the back glass. Boom. All right. I'm in. I'm in. And then if you watch, like, I think it was last summer, they did the whole Blue Album Tour, and they had a whole stage set built out, and they had a bunch of animations and graphics, like behind them on the big screen, and you could integrate all of those already as they are into the LCD for the animations and stuff on the LCD of the game. It's all right there. So what's the multiball song? I mean, I don't know how you do it. You could make a sweater mech where there's like a spool. Okay. That would be weird. there could be like two like a sweater and a spool and somehow like you fill this spool with thread and then that kicks in the sweater multiball you've destroyed the sweater that's kind of awesome uh i mean there could be a holiday multiball when you've drained the ball and the ball saves kicking out it's gonna say say it ain't so you know hello that's the call out for you Your ball drains, the ball saver's going like he's singing, say it ain't so, spits a ball back at you. I love it. You've got the sweater multiball, you've got the holiday multiball. You could do something where there's, what's the song, Surf Wax America, is that what it's called? You take your car to work, I'll take my board. And you could have a thing where you, there could be a car bash toy that then flips over and it's a skateboard. That's pretty cool. Like it's just, you know, it's just on like a swivel thing. And like you hit the car enough times, car flips over and it's a skateboard. And then you're in, you're taking your board. You know, it's a skateboard multiball. All right. So is there a specific designer that does this for you? This one I mean I like I know what I think you might pick Do you think I thinking John Borg Yeah I mean Borg knows his way around a music pin Yeah Because Metallica is awesome. And so is Rush, and I do not like that pin. I don't like Rush at all, but the Rush pinball machine is awesome. The Kiss, the Stern Kiss pinball machine is awesome. I'm pretty sure that's John Borg. Yeah, so John Borg, I bet you doesn't like Weezer. I don't know John Borg but we know people that know him I bet you he doesn't like Weezer but he still could probably make a nice Weezer pinball machine I bet he could but I bet you John Borg might like Rush he did the Rush he probably likes Rush he probably likes Kiss he's a little bit older than us I got John Borg pegged as more like a hard rock an arena rock kind of fella although I don't know I don't know you, John Borg. I love your pinball machines. I still think he'd be pretty good at designing that. But, I mean, the Foo Fighters is great. That was Jack Danger. Keith Elwin is really good. He did the Jaws. So whichever of those guys doesn't hate Weezer, they can do it. Yeah, they kind of have to love Weezer. They have to at least be okay with Weezer. They don't have to love it. but I know Weezer is a polarizing band and it's like but I think it would sell I think there's enough people people our age like I'm 50 we have 50 year olds mostly have the pinball money I think there's a lot of 50 year olds that like Weezer I think it would also be cool you know it would be a cool game in bars yeah it would be cool in music venues of course And if you look down the road... It's family-friendly? It's family-friendly, yeah. There's nothing... Kids like Weezer. Nothing profane in there. Maybe not. And like the artwork, I'd want it to be simple. Like you look down a row of pinball machines and there's a lot of awesome art, but it's like kind of busy. That's the other thing I like about that Jaws 50th. It's just simple. Whereas like this game, the side art, it's just mostly just blue. and just says Weezer or even just has their W logo in flames. Sometimes they play and they have that. Maybe that's like the limited edition back glasses, the W with the flames. But you keep it simple, and I think it would really stand out in a row of pinball machines, like just simple art, like minimalist kind of art. I feel like the band would get in on that too. They seem like they would be excited to do something like that. Let's get a Weezer out there. Yeah. Let's get a Weezer out there. I think if Stern couldn't make it, I would want Jersey Jack on that one. I don't think Spooky doesn't really do music pins. Well, they did the Rob Zombie. Oh, he's not. Yeah, they did a Rob Zombie one, but I don't know. Spooky, I would rather reserve their time for movies. I agree. And I think for a music pin, I'd want Stern first and Jersey Jack second. Yeah. So maybe our guy Seiden, maybe he likes Weezer. Maybe Jersey Jack can do the Weezer. They'd make it beautiful with the light show. Yeah. So, yeah, maybe I want Mark Seiden to do Weezer. Mark Seiden, what do you think about Weezer? If John Borg, you know, John Borg's pass. But it's 1A and 1A, Mark Seiden. 1A and 1B? 1A, 1B, or 1A and 1A. You choose. No one's lesser here. I take a Mark's Hide and Weasel all day. Okay. All right. Let's get it going. Let's get it going. We're putting that up on the board. Uh-huh. All right. Well, I think we're coming to the end of another one. Yeah. So if you want to join the conversation, find our group on Facebook, Punk Rock Pinball. let us know if uh where you found your favorite pinball place have you used pinball map and let me know if you disagree with lebowski as the one is the sophie's choice yeah the one to keep and what do you think about weezer as a pinball machine yeah just the blue album just just the blue album like just and i i celebrate the whole catalog but for the machine it's got to be the blue in regards to the pinball punk rock pinball facebook group if you have a pinball location or if you're like a tournament director and you host tournaments or if you're a rocker in a band and you're like doing a tour we encourage you to join the group and you can as long as you don't get spamming with it like promote your stuff if you've got a pinball spot and you've got regular tournaments like post it in the group if you're you know a little diy band and you're doing a tour post it in the group uh just don't be posting you know multiple things a day just but feel free to share your your tour dates and your pinball tournaments and your high scores in their punk rock pinball group on facebook join up and we'll see you there toodaloo

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: fe7e7022-1e06-4cf6-8942-a776ff2d3574*