# Episode 682: "Should Elwin Have Quit?"

**Source:** Kaneda's Pinball Podcast (Patreon feed)  
**Type:** podcast_episode  
**Published:** 2022-05-31  
**Duration:** 26m 23s  
**Beat:** Pinball

**URL:** https://www.patreon.com/posts/episode-682-have-67133078

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## Analysis

Kaneda discusses Keith Elwin's controversial concession in a championship pinball tournament, criticizing it as a failure of competitive responsibility and fan engagement. He covers Jersey Jack Pinball's delayed Toy Story machine and lack of transparency, Haggis Pinball's slow Fathom production, the mod community's value proposition, and debates around Pro vs. Premium editions. He argues that budget constraints harm creativity and that manufacturers outside Stern are missing market windows.

### Key Claims

- [HIGH] Keith Elwin drained on his third ball in a championship match and conceded both the game and tournament instead of attempting a comeback from a 900,000 point deficit — _Kaneda describes the tournament incident in detail, establishing it as fact-based on secondhand accounts_
- [MEDIUM] Jersey Jack Pinball has no Toy Story games currently on the production line according to a factory visitor — _Kaneda cites unnamed source who 'toured Jersey Jack Pinball last week' and directly observed the factory floor_
- [HIGH] Stern Pinball has announced a new cornerstone game reveal scheduled for August — _Kaneda states 'Stern Pinball has told everybody, we are going to reveal our next cornerstone game in August' as contrast to Jersey Jack's secrecy_
- [HIGH] Haggis Pinball promised Fathom delivery in early May to series ticket holders but missed that deadline — _Kaneda directly references the missed May deadline and criticizes lack of transparency_
- [HIGH] Dutch Pinball's The Big Lebowski is eight years late but now shows strong production output — _Kaneda references factory images showing 'a huge row of Lebowskis lined up ready to go into boxes' while acknowledging the eight-year delay_
- [MEDIUM] Pro edition games play better mechanically than Premium/LE versions due to removal of features that slow ball motion — _Kaneda expresses this as established wisdom in the community: 'Pro editions are for homes' and 'the ball stays in play longer'_
- [MEDIUM] Some 3D printing mod makers earn six figures annually selling pinball mods — _Kaneda states 'some of them are making six figures a year, like over 100,000 a year selling 3D printed stuff for your games'_
- [HIGH] George Gomez argued that lower budgets force greater designer creativity — _Kaneda references a recent Super Awesome Pinball Show interview where 'George Gomez insinuated that more creativity happens when you lower the budget'_
- [MEDIUM] John Borg had a meltdown when budget cuts forced removal of features from The Munsters design — _Kaneda claims 'John Borg had a meltdown because they yanked stuff out of his The Munsters game and he was throwing stuff around the design studio'_
- [MEDIUM] Most non-Stern manufacturers are missing production windows while Stern dominates the market — _Kaneda concludes 'everybody else other than Sam Stern has completely fumbled this window' and no competitors are shipping new games_

### Notable Quotes

> "If you are the greatest pinball player, Keith, and you are, and Keith, you have one of the biggest fan bases in pinball... I think with that comes a responsibility."
> — **Kaneda**, ~13:00
> _Core argument about Keith Elwin's fan responsibility and competitive integrity_

> "People just wanted to see him try. People want to see what he could do. People want to see if he could pull one last magical moment out of a hat."
> — **Kaneda**, ~15:30
> _Explains fan expectations for championship-level competition_

> "I just wish Jersey Jack Pinball was able to give us a date during which we could expect their next title... Why is it always such a mystery with Jersey Jack Pinball when they will reveal their games?"
> — **Kaneda**, ~22:00
> _Core complaint about lack of communication from Jersey Jack regarding game timelines_

> "For some reason, we are just not going to get the transparency from Marty and Haggis Pinball, and I don't know why. And I think each week they go radio silent, it makes them look even more like they're faking it."
> — **Kaneda**, ~37:00
> _Criticizes Haggis Pinball's communication strategy and implies doubt about production reality_

> "George Gomez would love you to believe that when you take away money and resources from designers, you're going to get a more creative product. That is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard."
> — **Kaneda**, ~47:00
> _Kaneda directly contradicts George Gomez's budget constraint creativity argument with strong language_

> "For $11,500, everything that these modders are doing should have been done at Stern. Stern is laughing all the way to the bank."
> — **Kaneda**, ~45:00
> _Criticizes Stern for using cheap materials that require aftermarket mods to look premium_

> "I don't watch competitive pinball. I would never waste any of my time watching competitive pinball because if you're seen one pinball tournament, you're kind of seen them all."
> — **Kaneda**, ~11:00
> _Establishes Kaneda's perspective on competitive pinball entertainment value_

> "Sam Stern gave all of these companies a window to make games and nobody can get it done... Everybody else other than Sam Stern has completely fumbled this window."
> — **Kaneda**, ~60:00
> _Positions Stern as dominating while competitors fail to capitalize on market opportunity_

### Entities

| Name | Type | Context |
|------|------|---------|
| Keith Elwin | person | Professional pinball player, designer, and prominent community figure; criticized for conceding championship tournament match on third ball and for not engaging with award shows |
| Kaneda | person | Podcast host of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast; industry analyst and critic with strong opinions on design, manufacturing, and competitive play |
| Mark Kim Constantino Mitchell | person | Generous patron of Kaneda's show; donated funds for second microphone to ensure show continuity |
| Jersey Jack Pinball | company | Pinball manufacturer known for secrecy about release timelines and production schedules; currently working on Toy Story machine |
| Haggis Pinball | company | Manufacturer of Fathom pinball; criticized for lack of transparency about production numbers, slow ramp-up, and missed early May delivery deadlines |
| Marty | person | Head/operator of Haggis Pinball; criticized by Kaneda for secrecy and lack of communication about Fathom production |
| Dutch Pinball | company | Manufacturer of The Big Lebowski; eight years late but now showing strong production with multiple games in queue |
| Stern Pinball | company | Major pinball manufacturer; positioned as most successful company currently; has announced August reveal of new cornerstone game |
| Sam Stern | person | Stern Pinball leadership; credited by Kaneda with giving competitors a market window that most failed to capitalize on |
| George Gomez | person | Stern Pinball designer; recently argued on The Super Awesome Pinball Show that budget constraints drive creativity; directly contradicted by Kaneda |
| John Borg | person | Pinball designer; alleged to have had meltdown during The Munsters production when budget cuts forced feature removals |
| The Super Awesome Pinball Show | organization | Pinball podcast where George Gomez was recently interviewed about budget and creativity |
| Godzilla | game | Stern game by Keith Elwin; becoming popular with mod community; neon sign mod being developed |
| Dialed In | game | Pinball machine used in Keith Elwin tournament match; player was 900,000 points behind opponent |
| Toy Story | game | Jersey Jack Pinball title in development; expected to align with Buzz Lightyear movie in mid-June but currently not on production line |
| Fathom | game | Haggis Pinball title in slow production ramp-up; series ticket holders promised May delivery, currently only 2-3 units shipped |
| The Big Lebowski | game | Dutch Pinball title; eight years delayed but now in strong production with multiple units visible in factory |
| The Munsters | game | Stern game designed by John Borg; referenced in budget constraints debate; lower playfield criticized for slowing gameplay |
| Legends of Valhalla | game | Unreleased pinball game referenced as example of manufacturing delays and missed market windows |
| Cactus Canyon | game | Unreleased pinball game referenced as example of extended delays; Kaneda mentions customers ordered it nine months ago |

### Topics

- **Primary:** Keith Elwin tournament concession and competitive responsibility, Jersey Jack Pinball delays and lack of communication, Haggis Pinball Fathom production and transparency issues
- **Secondary:** Pinball mod community economics and design value, Pro vs. Premium vs. LE edition gameplay and resale value differences, Budget constraints and designer creativity debate, Stern's market dominance and competitor failures
- **Mentioned:** Manufacturing capacity and supply chain recovery

### Sentiment

**Negative** (0.25) — Kaneda is frustrated and critical throughout. Negative toward Keith Elwin's tournament conduct, Jersey Jack's secrecy, Haggis's lack of communication, Stern's cheap manufacturing, and most manufacturers' failure to capitalize on market windows. Only positive elements are praise for mod community and Dutch Pinball's current production output. Overall tone is disappointed with the state of the pinball industry.

### Signals

- **[business_signal]** Stern Pinball dominance during manufacturing recovery; competitors unable to capitalize on available market window (confidence: high) — Kaneda concludes: 'Sam Stern gave all of these companies a window to make games and nobody can get it done' and 'Everybody else other than Sam Stern has completely fumbled this window'
- **[sentiment_shift]** Fan base expectation that championship-level players demonstrate maximum effort regardless of score deficit (confidence: high) — Kaneda articulates fan perspective: 'can the greatest pinball player of all time come back from this huge deficit... people just wanted to see him try'
- **[community_signal]** Pinball mod community generating significant revenue (six figures annually for some creators) by filling gaps in stock machine design (confidence: medium) — Kaneda states: 'some of them are making six figures a year, like over 100,000 a year selling 3D printed stuff for your games'
- **[design_philosophy]** George Gomez argument that budget constraints force creativity contradicted by industry evidence of constraint-driven compromises (confidence: high) — Kaneda directly rebuts George Gomez's position with examples: John Borg's Munsters meltdown over cuts and Pirates upper playfield removal pattern
- **[event_signal]** Keith Elwin tournament concession sparking community controversy about competitive responsibility and sportsmanship standards (confidence: high) — Kaneda reports: 'It's starting to spark some controversy on whether or not that was something of respect or whether or not it was a quitter move'
- **[market_signal]** Haggis Pinball's slow Fathom production ramp-up; only 2-3 units in America despite months of promised delivery (confidence: medium) — Kaneda notes 'This still feels like a slow ramp up to production. I don't think real production has begun' and references missed early May delivery deadline
- **[community_signal]** Keith Elwin's limited engagement with fan base despite significant influence; avoids award shows and fan interaction (confidence: high) — Kaneda documents pattern: 'when the award shows happen, he's nowhere to be found. He never talks back to the fans' and notes this represents missed fan engagement responsibility
- **[market_signal]** Economic downturn affecting collector purchasing patterns; customers reducing from multiple annual game purchases to single purchases (confidence: medium) — Kaneda predicts: 'at these price points and as the economy goes down, a lot of people are going to start to say, I'm only buying one game this year'
- **[product_strategy]** Jersey Jack Pinball's Toy Story machine not on production line despite expected alignment with Buzz Lightyear movie in mid-June (confidence: medium) — Kaneda cites factory visitor observation: 'There are no Toy Story games being made on the main line' and references historical pattern of Jersey Jack missing licensing windows
- **[product_concern]** Stern using cheap plastic materials that require third-party mods to achieve premium aesthetic for $11,500+ machines (confidence: high) — Kaneda states: 'There is so much flat, cheap plastic in Stern machines that could easily be modded and have more 3D sculpted stuff' and 'they absolutely go cheap because they know that the mod community will just take over'
- **[business_signal]** Haggis Pinball's secrecy strategy creating perception of production issues rather than building confidence (confidence: medium) — Kaneda observes: 'I think each week they go radio silent, it makes them look even more like they're faking it'
- **[technology_signal]** Pro edition gameplay advantages stem from mechanical feature reduction rather than design excellence (confidence: medium) — Kaneda explains: 'when you remove stuff from a pinball machine that slows down the ball... the ball stays in play longer' and Pro buyers always cite gameplay improvement

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## Transcript

 Are you worried about it right now? Keeping dreams alive, 1999 heroes Are you worried about it right now? Swimming in the floods, dancing on the pylons Oh, welcome to Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. We've got a new cable for my microphone, so we're back on the airwaves. I want to give a special shout out to Mr. Kim Mitchell, who basically said, Kaneda, you need more than one microphone so your show never goes down. So the man did a crazy thing and Venmo'd me enough money to get another microphone. So now Kaneda's got two microphones. So whether he's out and about or he's at home, he's going to have a place to do Kaneda's Pinball Podcast. Kim Mitchell, thank you very much, brother. You are one of the most generous fans of the show, and I really do appreciate your friendship and your extreme generosity over the years. I want to welcome our new club members, Sean, Nolan, MBT, Ron, RHK, David, CloneStar, Dan, MESZ, whoever that is, Nathan, and another Nathan. So to Nathans joining the show, welcome to Canada's Pinball Podcast. Look, I hope you guys all had a great Memorial Day weekend. I hope you guys all went to go see Top Gun. It is unbelievable. That movie in IMAX is better than any pinball experience ever, and you know it. and it shouldn't cost so much money to get a few hours of entertainment, but Tom knocked it out of the park. It's so good. I think it's actually better than the first one. It's that good. All right, so here's what I want to talk about. We're going to talk about tournament talk. We never talk about tournament talk, but the greatest of all time, Mr. Keith Elwin walks up to Dialed In on his third ball and just drains, concedes the match, not just the game. He was up for the championship and he conceded the match by not even playing his third ball. We're going to talk about this. It's starting to spark some controversy on whether or not that was something of respect or whether or not it was a quitter move. And this debate's interesting. I want to give you my thoughts on it. And you know me, like I don't watch competitive pinball. Like I would never waste any of my time watching competitive pinball because I think if you've seen one pinball tournament, you've kind of seen them all. Now, I understand if you're competing in them, they're fun. But man, watching pinball being played, it's not fun. It's never going to catch on. It will never catch on in its current format. They have to do something to make it more interesting. I want to talk a little bit about pro versus premium and which is the way to go in the pinball world. I've been seeing some debate around that. Another fathom has left Haggis Pinball. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about mods for your games. And does it make sense for these people to cap the number of mods they're going to make? And then we're just going to go around the horn and talk about what's going on in the pinball world. Now let's start here. Let's start with what's not going on in the pinball world. So I am hearing from someone who toured Jersey Jack Pinball last week that there are no toy stories on the line. He went into the factory. He saw what's there. There are no toy stories being made on the main line. I mean, maybe they have a secret line making some that's off to the side, but I don't know. The only thing in eyesight is more Guns N' Roses stuff happening, so there is no Toy Story on the line. So that begs the question, when are we going to see Toy Story? I thought we were absolutely going to see this pin, or it was going to be revealed by the Buzz Lightyear movie, which is mid-June. But if this game is not on the line yet, and we know they normally want to make like 50 to 100 available on day one, then I don't think we're going to see this game revealed in the next week or two. And that is a humongous bummer. And the reason why it's bumming me out and probably bumming everybody else out is I just wish Jersey Jack was able to give us a date by which we could expect their next title. Like even Stern Pinball has told everybody, we are going to reveal our next cornerstone game in August. So we now know in August, Stern's going to deliver a new game. Now, Jersey Jack Pinball doesn't even tell us what year, what month, what week. We don't know anything. It's always this cloud of secrecy around when their new game is coming out. And I think for a lot of us out there, what sucks about this, it's so hard to get excited and to maintain your excitement when you don't even know where the finish line is? Why is it that we know when the next movie is going to come out? We know when TV series are going to launch. We know when video games are going to drop. We know when sneakers are going to drop. Why can't they just tell us the drop date, right? They don't have to tell us a theme. They don't have to share with us any images of the product. But why is it always such a mystery with Jersey Jack Pinball when they will reveal their games? and they're just on this wonky schedule, right? Because Willy Wonka was released in like March. Jersey Jack has no set schedule and it's sort of been the story of this company's history. It's like they can never reach deadlines. They can never stay on schedule. And I will say it, if they miss the opening of the Buzz Lightyear movie and they don't ride that excitement and that wave, I think it's a huge missed opportunity to be a part of all of that Disney buzz that's going to happen when that movie comes out, right? Buzz Lightyear movie. A new pinball machine, the first ever Toy Story pinball machine. You want to be in all those stories that are saying how exciting it is. Also, you would think they'd want to have these games at the movie premiere. How awesome would it be to put these Toy Story pinball machines at the movie theaters when the premiere is happening for Toy Story? And you could do it all over the world. But look, Jersey Jack Pinball, if they've shown us one thing, they know how to not do it right. Like they missed the Hobbit movies when it launched. And I hope they don't miss this one. Now here's the funny part. Is they were supposed to have this game ready for Toy Story 4. Not the Buzz Lightyear movie. There shouldn't even be new Toy Story movies. I think we're done with this franchise from a movie standpoint. But the fact that they've had extra years to get this game ready. And it is now June tomorrow. And we have absolutely no idea when this game is coming out. It's deflating. It a bummer and I really wish Jersey Jack Pinball knew how to generate more hype and excitement for these games It just this deflating journey trying to figure out when they going to get their act together And everybody is so sick of Guns N Roses I am so sick of GNR. I haven't even unboxed mine yet. All right, let's just get right to this Keith Elwin quitting in the tournament, okay? So here's the thing. I didn't watch it. I was not going to spend hours on my Memorial Day weekend watching a pinball tournament. So here is what happened. Keith Elwin was playing dialed in against, I believe his name is Escher, and he was playing against someone who put up a strong third ball. I think Keith was behind by something like 900,000 points, okay? Now look, it's not an insurmountable amount that he had to catch up. It was just a big gap. Now, instead of playing the game, instead of competing to see if he could actually overcome his competitor, he drained the ball and he conceded the match. And he didn't just concede the game, he actually conceded the tournament because this was it. Like if he lost this, then he lost his chance to win the tournament. So what do we think about this? Keith Elwin, one of the greatest pinball players of all time. I think he has 11 championships in the final match. In the final ball, he just drains. Now, is this a move of respect or is this a lame thing that he did? And I see people debating this on both sides of it. And I'm just going to give you my point of view. This is just one man's opinion who never watches pinball tournaments. If you are the greatest pinball player, Keith, and you are, and Keith, you have one of the biggest fan bases in pinball, and you have to understand that. And I think with that comes a responsibility that I still don't think Keith Elwin quite understands. And I want to give you two examples of it. And I think this is one example. Keith Elwin has tons of fans who spend thousands of dollars on his products. And people love rooting for Keith Elwin and they love buying Keith Elwin products. And I think Keith needs to realize that he has a big fan base, that because of him, he's made thousands of people reignite their excitement for pinball. And so if you're rooting for Keith Elwin as a competitive pinball player and you're ready for ball number three, like can the greatest pinball player of all time come back from this huge deficit, right? this huge margin and can he show us that he is the greatest and overcome a 900,000 point deficit and then he just drains the ball I don't know any other way to look at that other than that's lame people just wanted to see him try people want to see what he could do people want to see if he could pull one last magical moment out of a hat and also like if you're the competitor playing Keith you want Keith to give it his all you don't want him to take a dive on the third ball I don't care what anybody says. The tournament was on the line. And this is someone that so many people look up to from a player's perspective. And I do think it was kind of lame to do that. And I don't care what Crazy Levy says or anyone else says. If this happened in other sports, everyone else would think it's lame. Let me give you an example. Imagine if this was a tennis match and you're in the championship and you're down two sets to none and you're also down five games to nil and you're serving and you're down five games to nil and you just hit the ball into the net on all of your serves, concede the match and accept defeat and walk off the court. Everyone would think that was totally lame. We teach children and we teach people in all competitive sports to play hard to the end, to play hard to the final whistle. Even in baseball matches, when players stop running to first base when their team is down by a lot. They get chewed out by the manager. I do think this is a bad example to set for everyone out there. You don't concede like this. You play through to the end. And that is how I feel about all sports, not just this pinball tournament. And the other part is this, and I'm just going to say it. And I think Keith is one of the most talented people in pinball. I think he makes some of the greatest pinball machines of all time. Godzilla is getting better and better with each code update and people are loving this game like I haven't seen them love a game in a long time. But here's my other issue with Keith Elwin is when the award shows happen, he's nowhere to be found. He never talks back to the fans. He should be up there taking the trophy because everybody voted for you, Keith. That's another example where it's like, come on, man. Like all these people are voting for your game as their favorite game and you can't go and get up on stage and accept the award. You couldn't even make videos accepting the award when it was remote and that's my thing is Keith I think you have a responsibility to play all of your balls to the end and you also have a responsibility to accept these awards when people are voting for you these are your fans like it's not about being humble it's not about being private this is a small community and I just think he should engage more with his fan base and that's all I'm gonna say on it he's still the greatest designer right now in pinball Keith you have like the greatest air cover in all of pinball. Like no one's allowed to even say anything critical about Keith Elwin. And man, I just think these are two examples where Keith should just give back to his fans because they give so much to him. And I think he needs to realize that. I think so. And it's not about being humble. It's not about being private, Keith. There is a responsibility that goes beyond just making these games for fans. I think you need to understand that. You are like the hero to a lot of these buyers and a lot of these kids who are playing these games and looking up to you. I know it's weird to say it, but a pinball player is actually a role model for a lot of people who love pinball. And I think there's a responsibility there. Okay, let's move on to the next topic. Let's talk about the fact that the next fathom went out the door. Now, there was an image that was just posted an hour ago. It says, I just picked up another fathom from the factory. And then there's an image of the game in the box. But here's the weird part. The serial number, which would indicate to us what number Fathom was picked up, is blocked out by an image that says Yippee. And I don't understand why we are still here. So there is still no understanding of what number is this. Someone on my Saturday Morning Spectacular said that there's two or three Fathoms in America. So where are those games? Here's the thing. And I think Damien and Marty just need to stop with this secrecy and the silence and all of the questions and speculation. Every time a fathom is made why can they just share an image of this game going into a box Hey we just built game number four or game number five I don even care what game number it is but why are we still guessing where they are in production? And why is production taking so damn long? You know, when you start building a game, you don't just build one a week or two a month or five a month. I don't know. Like this still feels like a slow ramp up to production. I don't think real production has begun, but you know, they just won't come clean. They just won't talk to us and tell us what's going on. Is it a part shortage? It can't be a part shortage. It must be a labor issue because if it was a part shortage and they were missing parts, then they couldn't build any games. So they must have the parts to make these games. I think it's a labor issue. I don't think they have many people over there. I think there's four to five people inside that factory. And I think building each one of these right now with a skeleton crew is a nightmare. And I think that's what we're experiencing because we're not seeing five games go out a week. We're not seeing 50 a month. And all of the people that paid in full, the series ticket holders, they were promised their games by early May and they've missed that. And so here we are a month after the production video. Now we get game number two being showed to everybody. And I'm just here to say, I just don't believe that production has begun. And I'm tired of speculating. They need to talk to us. Where are you in your production schedule? How many are you going to make a week? How come people didn't get their games in early May as promised? Why is this all such a secret? Kim Mitchell, I'm not going to let up on these guys. Because then I look over at Dutch Pinball and they've let us into their factory. And what do we see? Nothing but a huge row of Lebowskis lined up ready to go into boxes being tested for customers. Now, I will never give Dutch Pinball that much credit. Because this game is eight years old and they ripped off customers eight years ago. So Dutch Pinball never gets a full clap. You know, I'm like, my hands are going towards each other and then I'm stopping them. Because yes, while I'm happy to see Dutch Pinball get their production to this level, it's been eight years, people. So let's not get too excited. It would be very hypocritical of me. I can't make fun of Haggis Pinball for being a year late when Dutch Pinball is eight years late, okay? But they're getting it done and they are showing production that looks much better right now than Haggis' production. But that's all I want, and I'm not going to get it. For some reason, we are just not going to get the transparency from Marty and Damien, and I don't know why. And I think each week they go radio silent, it makes them look even more like they're faking it. And I don't buy that just one game being picked up is a good sign, because think of their overhead. Think of what their monthly burn is. they can't survive as a company if they're only scratch building these games like one or two a week like that's not good enough all right so thinking of things and not being good enough i want to talk about pinball mods for a minute because i'm seeing this like really cool neon sign for godzilla by the way godzilla as a game is becoming a modder's dream come true i will say this for some of you out there. Don't go overboard. And I mean it when I say it. Don't put so much in this game that you start to block the ball at every turn because you can put too many mods into a game. I think modding is a really interesting and fun thing to do in pinball. But I also think there's a point where you can overmod a game. So just be careful. Don't put in too much stuff that absolutely does nothing. But this neon sign mod is really cool for Godzilla. And I think it improves upon the stern sign that is in the game. But here's the thing that I just want to encourage all of you modders out there. I think some of these modders prematurely cap the amount of mods they're going to make. Like they might say, we're only making 150. I'm only making 300. Don't do that. I'll tell you what, the only reason you should ever like cap the amount of mods you're going to make if your mod is super, super expensive, right? The only way that like elite pinball toppers could sell those things at $2,500 a pop is if they only make $100, right? So that works. If they said we're going to make $1,000, they're not going to sell $1,000 at $2,500 a pop. For these other mods that cost around like $200 or $250, why would you cap how many you're going to make. Why would you do that? Because the moment you do that on a game like Godzilla, Godzilla is going to sell like 5,000 units. And these mods are great, especially for the pro owners because they make the game look even better. And so it makes no sense to me to cap your mods. That's just some marketing advice for you guys out there because it's decent side hustle. Some of these modders, you guys don't want to know how much some of these modders make, But some of them are making six figures a year, like over $100,000 a year selling 3D printed stuff for your games. And they're making bank. I mean, and they know it. And the ones who are smart, like they figured out a way around the IP infringement and they get mods out there and they are making so much because when you're 3D printing plastic and putting some LED lights, this stuff does not cost anywhere near what they are charging. But they're smart because they know if you have $11,000 to spend on a pinball machine, you easily have $250 to make it look even nicer. I've always enjoyed the mod community. I always enjoyed modding my games. I love the mods in Lord of the Rings that I put in the game. I love the mods in Batman. I love seeing most of these Godzilla mods. So hats off to the mod community because I think you guys are doing the job that Stern Pinball should be doing. That's the final point I'll make. For $11,500, everything that these modders are doing should have been done at Stern. Stern is laughing all the way to the bank. There is so much flat, cheap plastic in Stern machines that could easily be modded and have more 3D sculpted stuff in different areas of the game. And they absolutely go cheap because they know that the mod community will just take over and make it look nicer But again for this much money I think these games should come loaded with stuff and not require us to buy additional mods. I didn't talk about this, but I want to raise this real quick. The most ridiculous point that George Gomez made, and this is why when you interview George Gomez, and it was a great interview by the Super Awesome Pinball Show, but George Gomez insinuated that more creativity happens when you lower the bomb. When you restrict your designers to a certain point, they have to get really creative to figure it out. And I want to say that George Gomez would love you to believe that. He would love me to believe that. He would love all of pinball buyers to believe that. When you take away money and resources from designers, you're going to get a more creative product. That is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard. because the true stories are this. The true stories are the moment in which John Borg had a meltdown because they yanked stuff out of his Munsters game and he was throwing stuff around the design studio. So that really happened. And you're telling me that if George Gomez looked at Pirates of the Caribbean, he's gonna keep in that upper play field that rocks back and forth? There's a reason why when you look at most Stern games, there's really not much in them from an innovation standpoint, from a mechanical standpoint. And it's because the bomb is really low. See, George Gomez would look over the Big Lebowski and be like, well, why do we have to put all this money into this bowling alley? Why don't we just put the bowling alley feature on the LCD screen? We all know if Stern made Big Lebowski, that bowling alley takes place on the screen to save them all that money. What makes Big Lebowski so amazing and so magical is when you walk up to the game, there's a physical bowling alley underneath it. So I don't agree with any of that statement by George Gomez. I think these games get more creative when you give your designers more resources. All right, what else is going on in pinball? So I keep seeing people debate like whether or not I should get a premium or a pro. Now, this is an age old debate, right? And I love the phrase pros are for hoes, right? Because it's always like the people who buy pros try to justify their purchase. I don't want an LE. I don't want a premium. I'm going with the pro. And every pro buyer always has the same rationale. It's always the same thing. They always have one reason why they get a pro. It shoots better. The gameplay is better. And you know what? They're not wrong. When you remove stuff from a pinball machine that slows down the ball, when you remove like the building from Godzilla that has to go up and down, or a magnet that grabs the ball on Mechagodzilla, when you remove that stuff, the ball stays in play longer. From a gameplay standpoint, the pro will always shoot better because the ball is constantly in motion, right? That's the other argument, right? It's like a lot of people don't like upper playfields because they slow the game down. Same thing with lower playfields. Like a lot of people don't like the lower play field in the Munsters because A, it's not rewarding when you're down there and it slows the game down. So if you are a gameplay fanatic and all you want is gameplay, then absolutely why not go for the pro? But if you wanna see more mechanical wow and magical moments, I definitely think premium and LE is the way to go. The other thing that's funny is people need to stop saying they played the premium and the LE as if they're different games. It's the same game. You always see these jerkies like I jumped on a pro premium and LE and here are my thoughts. Like why? Why did you have to jump on a premium and an LE to get a different experience? It's the same exact game, okay? I think everyone looks silly when they try to act like the LE's got something special because it doesn't. There's absolutely no gameplay features that make the LE any different than the premium. From a financial standpoint though, it always makes sense to get the LE because chances are if you get an LE, you're not going to lose as much money and you might actually gain some money. It's only been recently where people are paying over sticker for pros and premiums, but usually because Stern will make an unlimited amount of pros and premiums, if you buy one, you're going to lose a few hundred bucks, maybe a couple thousand at the end of the run. But nowadays, like you can buy a pro and premium and probably get your money back if you sell it within the first six months. But that's going to end because once Stern starts cranking these games out, all of these pro and premium prices are going to go south pretty quickly because you can have a new one. Like why would you want an old one and used one when you can have a brand new one? All right, everybody. Thank you so much for being part of the Canada Club. We're back. The mic is working. Kim Mitchell, we got mic number two coming in soon. So everybody, I hope you guys had a great long weekend. And I don't know what to tell you. I don't think there's going to be much news until we get Toy Story. I was super excited. Now my energy levels are fading quickly. I just want JJP to throw the game into the ring. There's only so much we can talk about. Where's Cactus Canyon? Where's Legends of Valhalla? Where's the Dennis Nordman game? There's nothing. There's nothing happening anywhere. I will say everyone else other than Stern has completely fumbled this window. Everybody. Stern gave all of these companies a window to make games and nobody can get it done. So we must still be feeling the effects of COVID. We must still be feeling the effects of the supply chain and nobody can get it done. Nobody. Like where are the Legends of Valhalla going out? Where are the Weird Al games going out? Nothing is happening anywhere. Unfortunately for a lot of these companies, I think when they figure it out, Stern's going to show their new game and Toy Story is going to come out. They really missed the boat. And I think they're going to regret it because at these price points and as the economy goes down, a lot of people are going to start to say, I'm only buying one game this year. And if I had Legends of Valhalla on order like six months ago, and it was like nine months ago, I ordered Cactus Canyon, but now I really want this game or the new Stern game. I don't think you're going to see people going like three, four game purchases a year anymore. It's just who the hell wants to spend like 40 grand on four pinball machines. It's getting crazy people. Kaneda out I ain't worried about it

_(Acquisition: groq_whisper, Enrichment: v3)_

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*Exported from Journalist Tool on 2026-04-13 | Item ID: ff9a491a-43bd-4a02-b432-3d3a334e24ea*