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The Great British Pinball Podcast Episode 9.2

The Great British Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 27m·analyzed·Feb 24, 2024
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TL;DR

UK pinball community discusses TPF prep, game purchasing, mods, and the UK scene's growing prominence.

Summary

Neil McRae and Scott Rundell host part 2 of episode 9 of The Great British Pinball Podcast with guests Colin and Paul, discussing the upcoming Texas Pinball Festival. Topics include whether to buy pinball games before playing them, upcoming game announcements (particularly Dutch Pinball's Back to the Future and potential surprises), the artistic appeal of pinball machines, mod culture, and UK pinball community contributions. The group shares experiences about collecting, modifying machines, importing aftermarket parts, and attending pinball events.

Key Claims

  • Dutch Pinball is likely to announce Back to the Future at Chicago rather than TPF because Chicago is more industry-focused while TPF is more for players and hobbyists

    medium confidence · Neil/Colin discussing game announcements; speculation based on show format differences

  • Pulp Fiction is standing out compared to Jaws because of its unique design decisions: retro theme, ditched screen, no ramps, and distinct artistic direction

    high confidence · Multiple speakers (Neil, Colin, Paul) discussing game differentiation and excitement levels

  • Labyrinth was kept secret during development and launched as a surprise

    high confidence · Colin: 'Fair play to them for keeping it quiet as well' and 'they kept their paint dry and then the game's ready. Boom, let's launch.'

  • Deep Root was described as a 'Ponzi scheme' in reference to their troubled history

    medium confidence · Paul referencing Deep Root in context of poorly managed game companies; tone is critical/dismissive

  • Spooky brings failed production units (backbox artwork) to TPF to sell cheaply (~$200)

    medium confidence · Colin: 'Spooky's going to be bringing a lot of their...failed production...you can get them really cheap apparently like $200'

  • Stern sent full replacement cabinets to Bond Premium owners after damage issues, including fully assembled decals

    high confidence · Detailed discussion by Colin and Paul about Bond cabinet swap-out experience and Stern's handling

  • Texas Pinball Festival is more socially focused than Chicago Pinball Expo, making it better for meeting community members

    high confidence · Neil: 'I think Texas Pinball Festival is probably the place to go more so than Chicago especially if you're on the more social side you want to meet people'

  • Godzilla is Colin's favorite pinball machine of all time

    high confidence · Colin: 'I would say Godzilla is my favourite pin of all time. I think they broke the mould when they made that thing.'

Notable Quotes

  • “I guarantee every person in this view right now is going to buy Back to the Future. Exactly. Actually, I'm not. You will. No, I'm not. You will. Because it's been built by people with two left hands.”

    Colin and Paul (debate) @ Early in episode — Humorous skepticism about Dutch Pinball's Build quality on Back to the Future despite inevitability of purchase

  • “They've just done such a great job of...the fact that Tarantino's been involved in the design of the game clearly shows. And when they've had access to all those assets...they've done the trim and just the little details has kind of put it almost in a league of its own.”

    Neil @ Mid-episode — Explanation of why Pulp Fiction stands out; highlights theme licensing and artistic execution as differentiators

  • “I love the artwork on the side of a cabinet. I love it. I just think for me, if the artwork doesn't look good, both on the outside and inside of the game, that does affect my buying choice.”

    Paul @ Mid-episode — Statement of aesthetic priorities in game selection; values art over pure gameplay

  • “Godzilla is my favourite pin of all time. I think they broke the mould when they made that thing.”

    Colin @ Later episode — Endorsement of Stern's Godzilla as exceptional design; reflects collector's perspective on standout games

  • “Pinball is art, right? I love looking at...people spend more than a pinball machine on a piece of art to hang on the wall. And to me, I love looking at the art of pinball.”

    Scott @ Early-mid episode — Philosophical framing of pinball machines as art objects, not just gameplay devices

  • “The thing is, I used to hassle Randy at Call of D&D. I said, Randy, I'm bringing these back because your distributor just doesn't have enough of them. It's demand rather than the price.”

    Colin @ Later episode — Indicates aftermarket mod parts (colored DMDs) have high demand and supply constraints

  • “You do not want to make your wife a pinball mule. The pain that I got after that, never again.”

Entities

Neil McRaepersonScott RundellpersonColinpersonPaulpersonPhil PalmerpersonDaveypersonTarantinopersonJJ BabichpersonMike Vinicoreperson

Signals

  • ?

    product_strategy: Discussion of where Dutch Pinball might announce Back to the Future — potential conflict between TPF (player-focused) and Chicago (industry-focused) as announcement venues; speculation that Chicago more likely due to distributor presence

    medium · Neil: 'I think more likely Chicago because it's just a bigger – in terms of distributors and sellers, Chicago's just – TPF's kind of more for players and hobbyists'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Pulp Fiction attributed its standout position to unique design decisions: retro art style, ditched screen, no ramps, involvement of IP creator (Tarantino), and distinctive aesthetic that differentiates it from competitor games like Jaws

    high · Neil: 'Pulp's got the assets, they've gone for a retro theme, they've ditched the screen, no ramps, all of that makes it different to Jaws...that means that even a year on it feels fresh'

  • ?

    community_signal: UK mod community (Paul, Colin, Stumbler, armor powder-coating vendor) gaining international recognition; mentioned by Neil that international players specifically ask about UK modders' work

    high · Neil: 'The UK is on the map for pinball because of the work that you guys, Stumbler and a few other folks' and story about person in Chicago asking 'do you know the guy that makes the Godzilla mode?'

  • ?

    collector_signal: Multiple collectors (Scott, Paul) prioritize artistic/aesthetic value of machines alongside or above gameplay; machines viewed as art objects worth displaying and viewing even without playing

    high · Scott: 'to me, I love looking at the art of pinball...I could just look at it and never play it'; Paul: 'I love art on pinball...I can walk in my pinball room and put some music on...and just walk around and look at them'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.262

0:00
Welcome to the Great British Pinball Podcast and here are your hosts Scott Rundell and Neil McRae. Hey everybody, this is Neil McRae from the Great British Pinball Podcast. This is episode 9, part 2. We had to split the episode up because it was incredibly long. I mean, we know how much we all love log episodes, but this is a great episode. We've got some great discussion.
0:37
Scott, together with Colin and Paul, who joined us for a special edition all around TPF. And as with everything in pinball, you start with one topic, you end up with many. Anyway, this is part two. Part one is available on YouTube and on your podcast or your favourite podcast platform. we hope you enjoyed it and we kick off with do you buy a game before you play it and my advice is no over to Colin and I'm joined as per always with my great friend Scott Rundell thanks guys I'm not laid down on anything I haven't played yeah I fell victim of that with Cactus Canyon and that game I got to the wizard mode on day one and I was like, this is just not worth 10 grand. It's way too easy. It totally makes sense, everything you all said, but I'm pretty sure we've all done it, well, we have all done it before. We absolutely have. Every single game I've got, I've never played. I guarantee every person in this view right now is going to buy Back to the Future. Exactly. Actually, I'm not. You will. No, I'm not. You will. Because it's been built by people with two left hands. So, honestly, I don't have – I mean, I get a lot of beatings for this because I'm a bit kind of – I don't have a lot of patience for it. Do you not think they might announce it at the show? They might announce it at the show. I think more likely Chicago because it's just a bigger – in terms of distributors and sellers, Chicago's just – TPF's kind of more for players and hobbyists. Chicago's a bit more industry-focused. Okay. The industry's there as well, most of it is. But, I mean, it's possible.
2:22
But to be honest with you, I don't think they want to announce it then because they're fighting with Jaws to some extent. Yeah, but Jaws, I wouldn't say it's old news, but it's been out now. Do you know what I mean? I don't think it's going to steal the limelight is what I'm saying. No, but in Europe there's maybe like four of them. So, you know, again – But what percentage of – with all great respect to European pinball, what percentage of sales is that in comparison to the U.S.? But for Dutch, it's big for them because it's instant business for them. You know, they're relying upon U.S. resellers. And don't get me wrong, the U.S. market is huge for them as well. But I just kind of feel that one also don't think, I mean, you see it from Pulp Fiction, they're lucky because Pulp's such a great game, people have kind of waited for it.

  • UK pinball community (Paul, Colin, and mod creators like the armor powder-coating guy) has put the UK on the international pinball map

    high confidence · Neil praising UK contributors; example given of people in Chicago asking about Godzilla mode creator from UK

  • Tarantino was involved in the design of Pulp Fiction pinball

    high confidence · Neil: 'the fact that Tarantino's been involved in the design of the game clearly shows'

    • Paul @ Later episode — Humorous anecdote about importing colored DMD units through customs; highlights customs/shipping challenges

  • “There's no one making cabinets [in the UK]. That is the biggest, I think, heinous crime we've got in our country.”

    Colin @ Later episode — Identifies cabinet manufacturing gap in UK market; opportunity/pain point for collectors

  • “It was sacrilegious by the way that you threw that bloody James Bond cabinet in the skip. I was most upset.”

    Colin @ Later episode — Collector sentiment: waste of damaged machines; emotional attachment to cabinets

  • “The UK is on the map for pinball because of the work that you guys, Stumbler and a few other folks that are making stuff here.”

    Neil @ Closing remarks — Recognition of UK modding and content community's impact on international pinball visibility

    • Randy
    person
    Wayneperson
    David Fixperson
    Tony Malloyperson
    Mike Parkinsperson
    Zombie Yetiperson
    Texas Pinball Festivalevent
    Chicago Pinball Expoevent
    Dutch Pinballcompany
    Stern Pinballcompany
    Spooky Pinballcompany
    Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
    Barrels of Fun / Deep Root Pinballcompany
    Back to the Futuregame
    Pulp Fictiongame
    Godzillagame
    Bond 60 / Bond Premiumgame
    Cactus Canyongame
    ?

    product_concern: Colin expresses skepticism about Dutch Pinball's build quality for Back to the Future, jokingly suggesting the game is 'built by people with two left hands'

    medium · Colin: 'Because it's been built by people with two left hands. So, honestly, I don't have – I mean, I get a lot of beatings for this'

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Colored DMDs (especially LCD versions) in high demand; UK supply constraints requiring community members to import from US; price disparities between markets; limited distributor stock

    high · Colin: 'all the colour DMDs I had in all my games were the LED ones...everyone wanted the LCD one' and 'there's a bit bit of a price disparity now' and discussion of bringing back multiple units personally

  • $

    market_signal: Machines lose 25-40% value immediately upon purchase; Colin lost £3,000 on Elvira resale; Big Lebowski example shows £3,000 loss; slow market requires patience to recover value

    high · Paul: 'I lost 3,000 on Elvira. That was a major hit' and Colin: 'I bought a big Lebowski...he took a three grand hit on that'; Colin on Scooby: 'I think it was 11K...you get nine grand for it'

  • ?

    event_signal: TPF noted as more socially-focused, player-centric event with high casual meetup culture; Chicago Expo more business/industry-focused with factory tours and distributor meetings; TPF has JJ Babich's Pinside party as major social hub

    high · Neil: 'if you're on the more social side you want to meet people...Chicago has a lot of business, there's a lot of side meetings in the factories'; description of JJ Babich hosting Pinside party with free games and booze

  • ?

    product_launch: Barrels of Fun kept Labyrinth development completely secret before launch; praised for operational execution (kept 'paint dry' and launched with inventory ready); contrasted with poorly-managed companies like Deep Root

    high · Colin: 'Fair play to them for keeping it quiet as well...they kept their paint dry and then the game's ready. Boom, let's launch'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Mike Vinicore (code developer for Bond) is UK-connected and friends with Neil; planning to potentially attend TPF UK group dinner; indicates international collaboration on game development

    medium · Neil: 'Mike Vinicore's if he can get away he's going to join the Brits for dinner he's the guy who's done the code for Bond he's a really good guy, a good friend of mine'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Despite long wait (over a year since announcement), Pulp Fiction hype sustained and growing; described as 'feeling fresh' even with delay; preferred over Jaws among multiple speakers due to unique execution

    high · Neil: 'even though we're waiting, I'm still more excited to play that than I am Jaws...I don't know what to expect from Pulp'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Spooky Pinball brings failed production backbox art units to TPF for clearance at ~$200, described as opportunity for wall art collectors

    medium · Colin: 'Spooky's going to be bringing a lot of their...failed production...you can get them really cheap apparently like $200'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Tarantino reportedly involved in design of Pulp Fiction pinball; access to official IP assets cited as contributing to game's distinctive execution and market differentiation

    high · Neil: 'the fact that Tarantino's been involved in the design of the game clearly shows...they've had access to all those assets'

    • 3:12
    You know, if you've got a great game, people will wait. or as Paul said if you haven't played it you take a risk on it but I would be super surprised unless it's ready to sell soon I would be super surprised and the thing is about announcing it they'll all be tied to the IP of the game so if they're going to announce it how are they announcing it, what logo are they using all that sort of stuff to go through Do you not think there will be any surprise announcements at Texas Pinball Festival then? I don't know. You never know. I keep thinking J.J.P. might do something. I mean, Elton John, apart from the fact that I knew about it months ago,
    4:01
    because someone accidentally told me at Elton John's music recording record label. But I think Elton John was a big surprise for folks. Labyrinth was a massive surprise. No one was really expecting that. Fair play to them for keeping it quiet as well.
    4:22
    So I don't know. Who knows? I mean, you get some random Joe turning up saying, hey, I started a pinball company. And that's what happened with Labyrinth, right? I mean, and fair play to them. They kept their paint dry and then the game's ready. Boom, let's launch. As opposed to those clowns from, where was it? I forget the name of them that were building game, they were going to change the world You're on about the Pun Factory guys Oh no God the guys based in Texas Robert Mueller and his gang, I forget the name of them Deep Root, Deep Root The infamous let's face it, giant Ponzi scheme Yeah the Labyrinth and the Bowels of Fun, that was an impressive launch but I haven't played it but it looks like you know they really got that for a first game and everything else i'm really excited to see what they come up with next i mean i don't know i think they've probably got quite a lot of they they move into the challenge of fulfillment now don't they it's like how do you get it all out and get the production line going um and and that's their next big thing but i'd love to see what they come up with next and i would have you know princess bride i think given how well they did labyrinth i would have loved to have seen them tackle princess bride but i am i'm not i'm not i don't know because i'm not really a fan of the theme uh probably because i just haven't watched the film if i'm honest with you so it doesn't hold any nostalgia for me but he's smiling this guy hasn't watched i watched lab room i i love lab room that's different but what what's i i think it's like it's gonna might be like fifth element is what they might be their next title that would be good yeah i mean again that's a great one you know i mean anything with bruce willis isn't it it's going to be good but i I mean, Fifth Element has a lot of stuff going for it that would be great. I mean, I'd love Die Hard. Man, how could that be? Oh, that would be awesome. If it was going to be Die Hard... You'd have to fall out of the building. I was going to say, just take the Stern mech. You know, Godzilla, there you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good to go. Yeah, yeah. I mean, but, you know, the lines from Alan Rickman and all of that, it'd just be fantastic. Oh, that'd be awesome. But, hey, Fifth Element, I'll take that. I'll take... That'd be great. Is there any game you're particularly wanting to try when you get to Texas? well I'm the same as Cole you know quite sort of almost running off of the fumes of last year really and the excitement of what that was and Davey last year he went it was a bit last minute if I remember and he said do you fancy coming and I was like I was in two minds and I was like no because things were taking off with Godzilla loads of orders and I didn't go and I sort of regretted it so I promised all year yeah I'm just going to go and that's really where I'm coming from. But same as Cole, I haven't played any of those games. I've got, going back to what you guys said about ordering games that you haven't played, I'm down for Pulp and I haven't played it. I'm in two minds whether I want to because I'm really excited. I love, I mean, the thing for me as well with pinball is that it's art, right? I love looking at, to me, people spend more than a pinball machine on a piece of art to hang on the wall. And to me, I love looking at the art of pinball. And Pulp Fiction is a perfect execution of that. The artwork, I could just look at it and never play it and probably would get my money's worth out of that. Well, okay, not really. But you know what I mean. The sentiment is there. No, I'm absolutely with you on that. I mean, I know Cole would disagree with me here because he's going to say you never see them in a lineup. But I love the artwork on the side of a cabinet. I love it. I just think for me, if the artwork doesn't look good, both on the outside and inside of the game, that does affect my buying choice, if I'm honest with you. So I think it's vitally important that they get people like Zombie Yeti and doing the artwork for these games. Yeah, but they've got to get more than him because the risk is in my own lineup. His style is very similar across all the games and they need variety. And that's why I love Pulp. It's different. And when we were talking earlier about Pulp standing out, I think it's partly because they've got such a unique take on it. Right. They've got the assets. They've gone for a retro theme. They've ditched the screen. no ramps, all of that makes it different to Jaws, to everything else and that means that even a year on it feels fresh even though we're waiting, I'm still more excited to play that than I am Jaws because Jaws I know is going to be a little bit similar to Godzilla a little bit similar to Jurassic Park and all the rest of it, no matter how good it will be whereas I don't know what to expect from Pulp I know it's going to be a bit brutal maybe a bit more in keeping with TNA which I love, so I'm excited so I don't know if I'm even going to play it at TPF but I probably will but the game's got to try when you walk by I mean when you walk by and you kind of just hear it hear one of those lines the way that they've just you know someone bangs the game and the warning's like hey we're going to be cool they've just it's hard to figure out how they could have done a better job. You know, they've just done such a great job of,
    9:30
    and that, you know, the fact that Tarantino's been involved in the design of the game clearly shows. And, you know, when they've had access to all those assets, well, it differs me, but I do think you're right about, you know, the way that they've done the trim and just the little details has kind of put it almost in a league of its own. Bond 60, I'm a big Bond nut so I bought that game and when I compare it to Pulp Fiction and it's half the price as well which is also painful but I kind of wish, hey Stan if you'd just done a little bit like that it wouldn't have cost you that much more money but you'd have a game that truly does stand out the reels are a bit different but it doesn't stand out in the way that I think Pulp Fiction is going to stand out for a very long time.
    10:23
    But you're right. I mean, the frustration of how long it takes to get that game over here is driving me mad because actually there's a bunch of guys tonight at Alan Adair's house.
    10:35
    So Phil, you know, Alan's had a lot of challenges getting his Cactus Canyon, so Phil kindly loaned them. Phil from Pimbalin Heaven kind of loaned them the demo Pulp Fiction for a few weeks, which I thought was a great thing for him to do. and there's a bunch of guys from Pimola Public down there tonight, just up the road from our old club but honestly you'll definitely play that game and you'll probably go back and go back and go back I mean me and Davey last year I think every time I bumped into Davey he was in the queue for Pulp Fiction and vice versa so Is Davey on? You must have ordered one I'm assuming Yeah he's down I think for it so but yeah i'm looking forward to playing all all the games from last year exactly the same as cole i think also i'm partly looking forward to hopefully meeting a few people well meeting a lot of people i hope but i i think um you know for the last couple of years i've sort of sort of had fleeting contact with a lot of people on pin side selling mods too and having back and forth discussions and things like that and you sort of it's really nice you know i face to face yeah pinside gets a lot of flack but my experience has been overwhelmingly positive actually really lovely people um and the the comments that people have written to me you know it's that terrible thing isn't it i've said this to a few people i've had like you might get one negative person and i've had like 300 absolutely overwhelmingly positive but you still dwell on the negative but But you get these such lovely comments from people. And I'm really hoping that maybe I bump into a few and sort of say hello and maybe they'll remember and say, oh, yeah, we had that back and forth or whatever. So that I'm looking forward to. And what you described, Neil, about just wandering around with a beer and sort of just having a bit of fun. You know, like I've really enjoyed the UK Pin Fest. I think we've all been to over the last few years. And I'm not the most social at those events. I like to just sort of mingle quietly around and just play a few games. And I guess I'm going to push myself to be a little bit more sort of talking to people at this time, I think. And it kind of helps with a group of us going. I mean, even just being here, chat to you guys. I mean, I'm already sort of, you know, meeting new people, you know, creating new friendships, I suppose. And I guess I'm sort of hoping for the same a little bit in Texas, which would be nice. Yeah, I mean, I mean, this is a great thing about, again, similar pin fest. but pretty much everyone's in the, you know, the end, there's a, there's a couple of guys, the game room guys, JJ Babich, who runs one of the big distributors in the U S he normally hires like two rooms on like the top floor. And he literally just has a pin side party there, the whole freaking show. I mean, he's got, he puts games in there, there's free booze. And you just meet tons of folks from pin side there. It's, you know, so you, in terms of that, I definitely recommend going to his gig. he's a great guy as well which you know he does such a i mean he's his text isn't even his his area but he still goes um so yeah i mean you the the the social side of it there is is of all the us shows i'd say it's probably the highest actually uh of the least the ones i've been i've not been to all of them but i've been to many of them so um yeah that'll be cool um so i gotta um actually you know what are you buying when you're out there what what have you got a topper or what's the thing you're after?
    14:16
    Because you've got to... If you don't have... In my mind, when you go to a pinball event like this, you've got to have a walking through customs story shitting myself that they're going to put me in. Frisk me. I've got many of them already.
    14:35
    So anything that you're after or... I've been asked I've had a few people ask me to get toppers and it's a case of after what Paul done he came through I think he came through about 4, 5 or 6 toppers and he says never ever again so a friend of mine once an Elvira I'm going to pick up probably pick up a Scooby oh the new spooky topper that they did that's really nice to be fair it's one of those games I see there's one up on the forum for sale already. And I look at it, and I think mine cost me, I think it was 11K. And I can pretty much say I wiped two off that. I think realistically, you know, if you get nine grand for it, it is what it is. I mean, that's the problem with the inbox, right? We're delving it too long. You've got to buy these things. You've got to hang on to them, you know, regardless. If you sell it immediately, you take a hit. I mean, I lost 3,000 on Elvira. That was a major hit. But it works both ways. I've just bought a big Lebowski. It had a dozen games. It was took out of the box in the guy's gym. He had six games on it. And he went, I don't like that. Whether it was the language, whether it had the mature language on. He had the young kids. I don't know why. I picked that up under 10. Jeez. He took a three grand hit on that. And you know, we go on about art and everything. And you say, I'll disagree with you. But I love, like Paul, I love art on pinball. again I can walk in my pinball room and put some music on at the moment it's the jukebox on Lebowski is awesome that mod okay I put the music on and just walk around and look at them I don't play a lot of games you know these people like Wayne and they'll put three four thousand games on a pin no my pins are going they've got two to three hundred games on them you know sure you know I just love working on them I love modding them I love put my plastics on got all Davies stuff on me Godzilla. I would say Godzilla is my favourite pin of all time. I think they broke the mould when they made that thing. I really do. I think they fully loaded it up and even more so with Davy's stuff and Paul's. Such a great game. I mean, I remember bringing back 23 coloured DMDs one year. Jesus.
    16:56
    Would you have a crate? Tell you what, the thing is, I forgot, right, so I this is the thing you kind of just have to bear in mind all the colour DMDs I had in all my games were the LED ones I know most people prefer the LCD version I prefer the LED one for me it felt more like a pinball thing than just a screen but everyone wanted the LCD one and I didn't even think about it but the LCD one was significantly bigger which ended up I had to go buy a case and I had to give two of them to my wife I bet she loved that Let me tell you, you do not want to make your wife a pinball mule. The pain that I got after that, never again. But, yeah, I mean, again, this is the problem, right? I used to hassle Randy at Call of D&D. I said, Randy, I'm bringing these back because your distributor just doesn't have enough of them or doesn't get them. it's not that they okay they're maybe saving like a couple of quid but it's it's demand rather than than um than the price i think it's definitely a little bit more price now you can definitely get them yeah there's a bit bit of a price disparity now there wasn't back when i first started i think it was like 50 50 it's a big chunk of cash it depends as you say whether or not customs calls you up on it yeah i mean i say instantly but yeah i mean i've done and I think the topper max, I think I did four,
    18:28
    three or four toppers. Is that what you guys typically go for then? Is that what you're going to try and target? Is it going to be colored DMDs? Are you going to go for a play field? I'm not down for anything at the moment, which I don't know if that's just naive or laziness or whatever, whether I'm going to come back with like four cases. I know Spooky's going to be bringing a lot of their I don't want to call them returns they're more like failed production yeah they do that all the time yeah so you can get them really cheap apparently like $200 so if you're in for wall art you could have a nice Scooby or TNA or maybe even a what I've just learned is that Paul is a potential mule for yeah he might be over expenditure I would have been sad if I'm honest with you I'd have gone with screws i'm not i'm not even being funny like the amount of times i'm building games and i'm just like it's impossible to get some of the like long threads pan screws and stuff like that and no one is a really good point the sizes and things i i had been thinking about armor you know that there's the guy on pin side that does all the lovely um powder coated armor you use him don't you neil i think and he he does some beautiful stuff and then i so there's a couple of games which i thought oh I could upgrade this or I could do that but I haven't pulled my finger out and you know he's doing an orange Led Zeppelin so I originally got a black last year I got Chicago I got a black sparkle for Led Zeppelin but then I bought a Bond premium for the club and it just went it looked really good in the premium so I thought I'll and Led Zeppelin was tombstone for a while so anyway he's doing the orange because I think the black wouldn't been so great but i mean it's not cheap but but the thing the thing i find about powder quarters at least my area it's kind of again he just makes it easy like you know it's a box it's the right size to check in on a plane um i've done eight one two i've done eight so far yeah um and then the side effect is I've got tons of stern armor in a box somewhere that I need to sell at some stage but just the quality of it is phenomenal and he's got like you know, I was asking Haney well I'm doing an import from the Prismic guys you want in it and I was like you know this guy has got all the colors so you don't need to do any of that That's the thing and he knows pinball like you say so he knows what he's doing with it so if I was going to use anybody I'd love to use him or buy from him but I fear I've left it too late but I don't know I might contact him I only emailed him last week about Led Zeppelin he said yeah no worries the only issue is this year it'll be a bit more expensive this year because he's actually not going last year he drove and he had it on so I've had to pay for shipping to TPF but it's fine the other guy that's there that I want to get a new cabinet from us There a guy who made Stern and Bally classic cabinets but I just don think I get that on the plane I was going to say unless that flat it not going to fit It is flat Oh, okay. It is flat-packed, but, I mean, this guy's done an amazing job. Definitely the search for money. He does a few other bits for Poonball. That is the biggest, I think, heinous crime we've got in our country, at least in the UK, is there's no one making cabinets. I hate restoring cabinets. You used to be mine, didn't you? You did. They were a bit ropey He was making them They were just a bit flimsy Especially on the He was aimed at the 90s Bally Williams stuff The weight of the playfields of those games You need something pretty sturdy Phil I think it was He got one for Adams restoration And it was just They had to strengthen it a lot I don't think the guy is doing them anymore but the Stern cabinet is actually quite a simple one but I've got a Stargazer on it was sacrilegious by the way that you threw that bloody James Bond cabinet in the skip I was most upset so myself and Paul that's actually how me and Paul started chatting because we both actually with Colin as well with Godzilla if I remember we both got busted bonds oh really? you mentioned that cab I've got that cab as well currently we've got one if you want it Yeah. It was in my garage. So you both got like the same damage in the same area or? Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. I still actually haven't got a working bond on a wand, which is really bugging me. I need to carve out some time to get it all back together and working. But yeah, I had a full cab swap over. Yeah, I mean, that was painful. you know but you know it took a while Fairplay to Stern for you know they sent the cabinets out eventually I'm never sure how much of that I mean partly Stern because they've got to get the cabinets and then you know get the decals and all that and actually they were fully made so it wasn't like people were saying oh you're gonna have to move these hinges and this other stuff I was like no that's not how they're going to ship it to me I was sure of that and it turned you know it wasn't yeah you move the armour, you move the coin door but the rest of it was you just stuck the playfield in and it was kind of there I had to fiddle with the plunger for a bit, that was the other irritating thing I had but actually Mike Vinicore's if he can get away he's going to join the Brits for dinner he's the guy who's done the code for Bond he's a really good guy, a good friend of mine and I asked him if he'd join us and he said if they get set up done on Thursday night I was going to ask I know obviously this is all about Pimble but is the strategy for you guys to do a go out together afterwards outside of Pimble? Have you done any planned excursions around Texas or is it just around that exhibition so to speak?
    24:50
    That's a good question There's nothing I know of I mean I'll be honest with you there's not a lot to see around there you go to Dallas and see the whole Kennedy shooting thing which is interesting I'm a big Kennedy Nux of the space program it's definitely worth seeing that but beyond that there's not a huge amount to see that you know if you want to go for a drive or you know drive to other bits of Texas for sure like down to Houston's lovely or even or go to Austin where they've got like you know a lot of nightlife but where the event is you know it is kind i mean it's partly the in some ways it's partly the charm of it which is there is nothing else to do so you're there for the pinball right and there's a couple of good great barbecue restaurants and a few other things nearby but predominantly you're there for the pinball and how many days are you there for then i'm getting in on the thursday um i think some people might be getting on a wednesday i don't know but i think most of is it thursday we're getting there? I think most of the folks going are getting on the Thursday I'm actually, I'm there, I've got a work meeting on the Tuesday so I'm flying out on Monday actually I might be even flying out earlier because another work meeting's coming so yeah I'm getting there I mean really this I think the show starts kind of Friday afternoon much like Pinfest you know opens up in the evening but. Okay does it end on Sunday then or is it finish on Monday? Yeah, same hour as the pin fest Sunday middle of the day And then I think I'm actually Flying back Sunday night There's not a lot to stay for on Monday I mean the other place It's worth visiting is Side Arcade Which is a big pinball arcade place Where's the Galloping Ghost Is that in Chicago That's closer to Chicago unfortunately Although I say closer to Chicago It's still a bit of a trek From Chicago but I'm going I keep saying I'm going to go there I'm definitely going to go there this year because I'm going to Chicago this year as well look guys really appreciate you guys joining us we've kind of yacked on as we usually do for a bit longer than we expected but I think the content's been great you guys you do a lot of great stuff for the community and you know I think the UK is on the map for pinball because of the work that you guys, Stumbler and a few other folks that are making stuff here. You know, it's great. People, you know, they'll say, oh, you must, you know, I was in Chicago and someone said, oh, do you know the guy that makes the Godzilla mode? In fact, I think I pinged you about it, Paul. And I said, yeah, I know him. Is he doing any more? That's all I can ask him. You know, they're always, they're all because they know they're from, from the UK. They're like, oh, you know, so I think we're definitely on the map for that, which is great to see and long may it continue and I'm looking forward to a great weekend and when we get back let's get on the old Zoom again and just have a chat how it went because I've picked up Texas a lot because I genuinely think if you're into pinball it's probably the place to go more so than Chicago especially if you're on the more social side you want to meet people Chicago has a lot of business, there's a lot of side meetings in the factories and stuff like that and if you know people you can get into them it's great, like David Fix through the guys out of Ireland we got a tour of the factory and stuff which was awesome but if you don't know those folks it's hard to get into it so I think this is going to be a great show and I'm looking forward to it so Paul, Colin thanks for joining Scott, we will magically wave the editing wand and return to the podcast that we're recording at some time in the next week. But great to have you guys on board. I appreciate the time. And with that, Colin, any last words? No, no. No, nothing? No, just looking forward to Texas. Looking forward to what we all have to say about it when we get back. Indeed. And kind of also, you know, those are the key questions, would you go again?
    29:15
    And, you know, Davey went I think for the first time last year and he's going again so I think that's you know, and I've been there a while but I'm fortunate that previously I could kind of tie it up with a bit of work so the cost of it wasn't as crazy as it is for folks who just jump on a plane randomly but we'll need to drag Scott along next year.
    29:36
    Still time, Scott, still time. You know, it's the thing, it's just It was money at the time, but I might see if I can book a last minute. I'll tell you what, mate, you might get pocketed on low-cost flights. Honestly, you never know. I've seen where you'll get, like, a deal on a flight the week before.
    29:53
    And there's plenty of hotels in the area. I mean, you won't get in the venue hotel, but there's so many close by. And Uber's everywhere, so it's like five bucks to get there and you're good to go. Yeah, definitely. Guys, thanks for joining. and Scott we'll go back to our squabbling about art versus music versus Twilight Zone versus Roadshow versus whatever comes up I want to work that folks about just one thing though actually I'll just mention it quickly before I forget MED we are hosting a pinball competition in April the 7th I think it is it's a kind of cancer charity event if you can if you want to go to Medway and play in a comp whilst I remember please google Medway I think it's on Matchplay it's for a great cause and they'd love to have you there for that weekend, Tony Malloy and Mike Parkins great guys at pinball, Tony's actually usually goes to the TPF but I don't think he's going this year but thanks guys, we will speak to you soon, I'll see you in Texas in a couple of weeks time yes well Scott that was a lot of fun, I don't know about what you thought love it, so seamless I'd say it was good talking to them I feel like it was good getting their view and insight on things and to be honest with you just to see their thoughts on things like the mod community and what they do and what they've basically accomplished. As I say, you mentioned it while we were talking to them, to help put UK on the map. I think that's nice. There's no question about it.
    31:45
    Colin's part of the community, he really rang a bell for me on that, given I mentioned it on the thing where I had a bit of broken for Avengers, I just couldn't get the part. He did me a solid I just put his James Bond things on my James Bond speaker things on they look great to have those guys on, we'll have them back after TPF and we'll have a chat about what we liked and what we didn't like about the show, I'm really looking forward to it because as I said it's not only me and Aya that are there from the UK so it's going to be good fun to have a few The Convener is not here. The other guy is there. All right, let us move on. Another thing that I want to quickly cover is that the Professional Amateur Pinball Association is back later this year at Interium. It is a charity event. The reason why I am kind of bigging this up is that it is a charity event for mental health and suicide. Lyman Sheets, who we have talked about before on the show, is an absolute hero of mine, a phenomenal guy. partner penny epstein um and josh sharp are putting this together as a charity event um to raise money for for what was a phenomenal cause uh i'm i'm excited about it i'm actually going to donate i've got a signed uh medieval madness translate that's called lyman's signature i'm going to donate that they're going to have a big raffle full of great stuff so i'm donating that and really looking forward to if you go to papa.org I think that will take you to more about the tournament it's a five car What's made them decide to reopen by the way? Because I thought they were just saying oh they shut shop and that was the end of it Well they've I guess in some ways they've kind of this is probably not the most authentic true Papa because it was in the building and it was very you know it was kind of a special place the Papa building I managed to go there literally just before it closed. There was an event there, and I bounced. And I only went there because I just wanted to be able to say I walked in the place, and it was a staggeringly amazing place. 300 games, beautiful. I mean, actually, the building apparently was falling apart, but it didn't look like that to me.
    34:07
    If you watch Special Win Lit or you Google Papa on YouTube, you'll find that a lot of great, I mean, some amazing matches.
    34:17
    Before they kind of started... Even if you wanted to look up a game sometimes, I find that their results are high up in the list they're always showing you how to score it, how to play it full breakdown yeah so this tournament's in Chicago in Thierry I'm a great pinball location Andy Bagwell's TD, I'm going to try and help them out by volunteering and then also we've got I need to find the date for this because I've forgotten it again um medway pinball and ken um so this is something that'll be close to quite a few people's hearts i predict um is that they're having a a charity tournament um what is it i'm just trying to find it um it's so mike he's one of the organizers there and also at pinball republic mike parkins a great guy a really good friend um his partner passed away because of cancer. On 7 April, there was a big charity event. Unfortunately, I cannot make it. I am on holiday with my family, which I am really annoyed about. Kaz, who was Mike's partner, some of you might have met her. I think she was at Pinfest. She is a lovely lady. She passed away recently. My mother, over Christmas, got diagnosed with cancer. Fortunately, she got the all clear, so all good. We mentioned Alan Adair. He is a great friend of the show and a known pinball guy. He has had a few folks around. He has borrowed Pulp Fiction and he has had a few folks around over the past few days. I used to say cancer touched everyone actually until until my mother caught it it's something i've been fortunate enough to to not really been uh affected by but so it's a great charity please uh register donate um enjoy um what will be a great gig at uh medway as i said on the 7th of April, and it's all for cancer research.
    36:37
    So, Scott, you know, I heard on the grapevine you're getting a Twilight Zone tattoo. Yeah, oh yeah, I love the game at the moment. No, it's been, like, I'm holding it in your game, for those of you that weren't at the aid of a camera, I'm holding the clock at the moment, which I shared, practicing out a 3D print of the case just to see if I could get it all fitted back together. It arrived to me, unfortunately, without the clock because the person who owned it unfortunately passed away before they could finish it. Oh, jeez. Without sounding distasteful, I can see why they never finished it because it's a pain in the arse. It's horrible. It's really horrible to put together. It's a nightmare. It is. It's got little cogs on it. The teeth have to be in exact alignment and I feel like you have to have like i don't know a very good understanding of the assembly and the problem is that because it was already disassembled i'm having to follow a blown out schematic where they you know show the parts fitted out together and then i go i thought one step closer and then someone goes oh you're missing that part i'm like okay make another order to marco specialties put that bit together oh no you're missing that part it's like i didn't even realize it there's a little pin that sits in the clock hand yeah and i didn't have that so i'm putting it together i'm thinking why is the larger clock hand loose. And they're like, I noticed there's a groove in the inside of the clock hand. I'm like, what's that for? Look at this come out. A drive pin. Are you for real? I'm missing a drive pin.
    38:06
    I mean, I just mentioned Mike, but you should reach out to Mike Parkins. He's got a Twilight Zone down at Medway. And he toiled with that clock. He used to be at Pinball Republic for a while.
    38:19
    We kind of moved the games around to keep it fresh. So he took Twilight Zone down at Medway. but he toiled with that clock for I don't know how long and finally got it reliable and working.
    38:32
    Obviously, we know the rumour is that potentially Prodetti might be bringing this game to Texas Pimple Festival. It might be that or another title, but we'll see. If I was them, I would put a small LCD screen on the playfield. I'm hoping they've redesigned a clock and I'll just buy that because I'm getting so fed up with this one. I mean, this is the thing with those 80s games, 90s games, that era of 90s games. And, you know, we all love it with these big mechs, but, you know, at UK Open, at big pinball events, I guarantee you the game that gives us the most grief are these heavy mech games like Twilight Zone or Kongo or Demoman. And we love the mechs, don't get me wrong. You know, they're interesting. I love the mechs in games, but it's just when they're built... like don't get me wrong there's good mechs right like twilight zones gearbox it's metal and you can't really get it wrong it's all opto driven you know if there's a problem with it it's probably going to be either the switches as in the optos or it's going to be the gearbox isn't lubricated enough it's fairly straightforward even though it's complex there's this assemble it's fairly easy to diagnose this it's like it's like pandora's box of little pieces and it is like an actual clock you feel like oh my god if i don't get this exactly right it's not going to pull together and Yeah, it's super complex, probably one of the most complex. I spoke to you about this with the Cyberpunk game that I've obviously re-themed from Johnny Mnemonic, and I was working on it last night, and I can understand why operators just wouldn't want to maintain it. It's one of those ones that, because it's on the backboard, and it literally is the backboard piece, you've got to disassemble it from underneath on top. If you're an operator, you're not going to sit there and faff around with that, put it out, re-lubricate the gearboxes. It's like you're just going to, you know, hope it doesn't break. And it's like a conversation during the mod, the kind of mod Texas Pinball section where, you know, Stern, give them a kick in for many things, right? But the way they pump out pros are just simple games to put in bars and on location. And, you know, in the UK, a coin-op location that isn't only sterns is like just, you know, you just can't find a coin-op location that's not just about sterns because I get why, right? No one's going to do it. Less to go wrong, you just want it to be, you know, it might have one or two, maybe two max toys in it, so to speak, that are mechanized that might need maintenance, but on the whole, it needs to be reliable because it's going to get smashed. Absolutely, and And, you know, there's a bunch of guys playing the tournament in Funland, and even though those games are pretty simple, they're still having to tackle them because they get a lot of plays, these games. Did you see that James Bond 60th, by the way, out of interest? Sorry? So there was a James Bond 60th that was on location, I think. Oh, yeah.
    41:34
    I've seen two of them on location, and both of them are not looking great, if I'm honest. No, the playfield chipping is horrific. Like, I was talking to my friend Dan about this. So there's a lot of, like, I suppose, changes, I suppose, in the way that playfield production is done, right? Nowadays, people do print to wood rather than silkscreen. The clear coat, I would imagine the formula's changed probably because of environmental issues. It's water-based rather than oil-based. Yeah, exactly. So it's less hard, like, you know, it's more malleable and it's soft. I feel like along the way, right, because again, this probably leads us quite nicely into Twilight Zone, because there's been a whole thing around, even with the playfield with me, with Mirko's playfield. So high-end pinball, as people might know him as Hep Pinball, I think his name is Chris, he's done a whole piece on Twilight Zone recently on the playfield that he received. chipping, pooling from the word go, scratches everywhere. Even the replacement he had had a chipping around the trough area. And it seems to be like how it's produced. His hypothesis is that Mirko and whoever he's got in his staff to cut it, it's an assumption that maybe it's different from the JGP runs, that it's been clear-coated first and then cut second. Now, that is a big no for me. Even I understand that. it's like you do not want to be adding strain onto a already like clear-coated playfield by cutting into it you're going to cause chip in and i feel like i'm not saying stern do any different because i can't even comment on theirs but it does feel like there's a repeat pattern of playfields just not holding up like how they used to i really feel there needs to be maybe a revisit to the way things used to be to make them more reliable no no argument now i've been i mean i've talked about my Quicksilver getting redone, that's because the first Merkle Playfield fell apart, basically.
    43:35
    Guns and Roses the whole shit show of that with Merkle Playfield I mean that guy it amazes me that he not in jail because I don think anyone got a good story to tell about him No, I mean, I flagged an issue to him about my particular playfield, so I have what they call a prototype design, which is basically the free magnet version of the playfield. And in the door area, there's a text that sits predominantly at the front, at the top of the graphic that says something like uh piano when lit or some black text and it was raised to him on the on the very famous merco fred that's on pin side and he said he's addressed it and he's fixed it what he forgets to say to everybody is that he's only fixed it for the two magnet version when i raised it to him because i'd received my free magnet version in december of last year so not that long ago a couple of months ago he said oh yeah that's always been the way and that's how it is and then he goes if you uh look on the website there's a picture of it i don't hide from it and i said you don't point it out you just show a very small photo stamp of image of your playfield and expect people to look over it yeah with that guy there's always a thing where it's not his fault yeah right he he has no concept of customer right what's annoying is he's obviously got a capability to do this and he chooses to do a half axed output and this is the frustration right if he does a quick silver play field then no one else is going to do it and it's annoying although actually there's a couple of guys that are doing play fields that he's done because the quality is just not where it needs to be um i mean you go back to your whole cruzman thing it's like even heps that's the same thing if they get a merco playfield they have to sand it down they have to remove the clear yeah and re-clear it and you haven't even got a guarantee that the wood won't warp he's shown some pictures of like the wood sat in trays for months and it just starts doing that it's bowing well he um crazy so when cruzman was doing um my Quicksilver playfield. He took the clear off of it. Yeah. And when he put his clear on, the wood started to move a little bit, where the painting section was unwell. And he had to kind of wait. I mean, it took him six months to do it. And let me tell you, although it seems expensive, it feels like a lot of money what you're paying Kuzma. In terms of his hourly rate on the work that he does. Oh, he's not making anything on it. He's not floating about in a Ferrari for this because just an insane amount of attention to detail he puts into it. And I mean, the play, I mean, this is what Keith, sorry, from who did the work. He's like, holy shit, Neil, this cruiseman clears as hard as a brick. Yeah, it will be. Yeah, he really does like a fit clear coat on his. The same thing I've had with my stuff I get from Australia from Restored by Scott. He doesn't mess around with the automatic clear there either. I'll post that picture of it because it looks like a sheet of glass. I mean, it's just insane. I mean, that's what it needs to be, right? I mean, it's the same thing with Sterns. I don't think they're, let's say, escapable of their clear coat either. It does dimple really easily. Yeah, I have noticed though, right? And you might want to, I know you've got my Godzilla. Let's talk about that in a second. I loaned you my Godzilla.
    47:25
    Certain play fields have got better, though. There's no question about it from my point of view. Oh, yeah. I mean, their clicker doesn't chip. I just think it's very malleable in comparison to the original kind of stuff. Yeah, even that. If I compare Batman to Venom, which I just got, it's night and day improvement.
    47:42
    Oh, really? Okay. For sure. Don't get me wrong. They've still got more improvement to do. but I have to say Stern have gone for this kind of apple peel effect, I don't know if you've noticed on the Godzilla that I loaned you but it doesn't Oh yeah, where it's got that kind of looks like a you know what you mean, like it looks like orange peel Yeah, sorry, not apple peel, orange peel and actually I think that's an outcome of the formula that they've changed but actually, you know unless you look at it at a specific angle, you don't notice the orange peel No, if you put a camera on it, it looks horrific Yeah, if you zoom into it, for sure. But I have to say, I think it works pretty well because it kind of manages. You still get the dimples, but it kind of blends them a little bit.
    48:30
    It's still not as good as the old, you know, what was it, hard plate? Diamond plate. Diamond plate, yeah, diamond plate, you know, that they used to do on the early 90s games. But, you know, they were using all sorts of chemicals that you find in nuclear power plants these days. so you know i mean that's the difficulty right i can't give these guys too much like stick because i know that they're probably constrained by environmental laws that probably prohibit them from using the more toxic kind of clear coat that they've used in the past and even in places like china i mean i was i was hearing that you know in shenzhen you can't use certain types of chemicals there anymore because though there's the pollution that it was driving there's horrendous but you We also see it in car manufacturers. I am a big BMW nut. From the third edition M3 to the fourth edition, they changed from an oil-based to a water-based paint. I remember that I was trading in my car for a new one, and I parked my old one next to the new one—a brand-new car. The paintwork on the old one, which was a four-year-old M3, looked better than the paint on the new one.
    49:43
    And I was like, because it was, I had a, one was white and one was metallic, this metallic blue colour. Right. And I was thinking, holy shit, look at the difference in that. I really noticed it and then lots of people were talking about it and, you know, the reality is every car manufacturer has got the same challenge now and you get this orange peel effect. You can buff it out. Yeah. And I've got a detail that buffs it out but it's still not, as good as it was because of that requirement. But look, I think it's great. I mean, the great thing is we've seen lots of games being restored by folks like you and others.
    50:22
    You know, breathing another 20 or 30 years life into these older games is great news, but it is effort, hard work and expensive. It is hard, yeah. And I've just got a... This just arrived today from Cliffy's, from a Quicksilver, where is it?
    50:42
    Metal protectors, especially on modern machines like these days. They're a must-have now, basically. Yeah, absolutely. They don't look terrible, but they offer so much protection. So, Scott, you've had my Godzilla for a few weeks.
    50:58
    What's the verdict? So, obviously, when we had the guys speaking just earlier, everybody was saying how much they liked it. I didn't want to be the kind of person to say it. I personally think the game's not great. Really? No, I don't like it. What do you like about it?
    51:18
    I think there's some annoyances, right? That left ramp is so bloody difficult to make that unless you've got, like, a really good accuracy, and don't get me wrong, I'm not, like, the best player anyway, right? And that's probably symptomatic of me venting my frustrations on my skill set. But I find that unless you hit that really clean, because it goes up that horseshoe at the top, if it doesn't make it, it just drains. And then it's like, if you plunge badly, it drains. And if it goes through the building, it drains. And I'm just like, this game's got such crap geometry. Why does everyone love it so much? I'm just like... This is the Godzilla that was in the club, which was set up pretty brutally. Oh, maybe I'm playing on because it's set brutally. I have moved the posts on the outposts to the easiest difficulty. I will never, never, ever let you hear the end of it.
    52:13
    I would definitely go and put all the – so go into the settings. Right. And if it is not on default, put it back to default. I think it will probably improve it also. Maybe. If you haven't – have you lowered the pitch? Yeah, I lowered the pitch to about 6.5 degrees. It's standard. I'll be honest with you I'm just a bit like eh I think one thing right is the theme doesn't really do much for me I don't know why people get so excited about a man running around in a rubber suit personally but you know if you want to do that that's every superhero in the world you've just did but it's like I get why people like it I get the fact that it's got a lot of code it's deep and there's a lot to do and there's you know arguably quite good moe balls in it but i'm just a bit like nah you're kind of hyped out by it although you've got a few more weeks to play so i don't know it might be just i did i said to you off air before i said don't worry about any wear and tear it just sits there off most of the time i honestly would never have one hands on a hand on high i'd never have one in my i would just hate it i'd hate it for the money there's a few people i know that don't like godzilla island they find it like it's kind of you know just doesn't work for them in terms of and there's aspects of the game that you know frustrate me a little bit but it's so weird isn't it because everyone says i love deadpool deadpool best game ever and then i go like it's rubbish and then they go godzilla best game ever it's rubbish and then i'm like i love monster bash oh monster bash is rubbish i'm definitely in that other camp I much prefer like the simple rule set like fun, I like the sense of humour and don't get me wrong, Godzilla's got humour you are like Deadpool well it does have good humour in it, I'll give you that I don't think there's anything wrong with the theme of Deadpool, I love Deadpool as a theme I'm a big fan of the animation and the movies to be honest with you, so I don't think there's anything wrong with that, I just feel like there's no toys in it is just a shooter Yeah, there isn't. I think that's a fair challenge. I mean, again, we'll go back to the beauty of pinball. There's something for everyone, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely.
    54:33
    If you ever make any choice, people, when it's funny, I'll talk to you in a second about something I saw on Pinball Info later on because it made me laugh. But for me, it's like, don't ever listen to Top 100. If someone says to you it's number one, it's just a popularity contest half the time. those top 100s are just such a nonsense I mean it's a bit of fun but it's not, you've got to play a game yourself, I'll be honest I used to avoid classics like The Plague, I just thought why would I play that old shit and then Pinburg, you have to play you don't have a choice and I just fell in love with them and I do think there's certain people who, there's a guy who sold it. The story Colin told about Big Lebowski, he played it for like 10 games and didn't like it. And I'm like, 10 games just isn't long enough. No, you've got to give it a fair whack. I mean, for me, I was surprised how much I liked Black Knight, even though that game is brutally unfair. That mace spinning is just cheap. I still love it. I mean, everyone keeps saying when you get rid of your Black Knight and I'm like, I'm not. Probably won't. I love the music, I love the theme it's a tough game it's not the deepest of games it's not the most innovative games but I find it hugely fun, same with Turtles it gets a bad rap because it's so hard but I kind of like it because it's hard but and then you've got Venom right now that I liked when I went around your house I think that game gets a really bad rap, I really enjoyed that I always have one. Everyone who's come to my house to play Venom has raved about it. So, you know, when people say it's not a good game, I'm like, what?
    56:25
    And, you know, there's more new code that came out. There's still .97s. There's still a lot of code to come out of that game. I think it's phenomenal. I think it's another Eddie classic. Yeah, honestly, I would like to have that game. I really would. I just think, like, for me, I can't warrant the price that it's at. but then there's we won't go into it too much because something that shouldn't really be discussed here anyway but there are price different changes going out i've noticed recently for some games so maybe i can get a venom at a price that i'm gonna there's definitely a bit of a price war going on between the dealers in the uk yeah and and it's great but unfortunately the the the kind of ground floor that they can go to set by the distributor is still too high right um yeah i think there does need to be some sort of price correction going on in pinball just probably it's difficult right because it needs to happen stateside first if anything else so i mean in terms of the second hand market there are that correction is already happening man you see it oh it's brutal like the games i'm seeing dropping in price now i'm like i'm glad i got rid of my alfira when i did yeah i mean i mean there's some some folks that are like you know living in La La Land trying to sell a game for 10 grand when it only cost 10 grand to buy it and it's three years old. I'm like, nah, mate, you're having a laugh if you think you're going to do that. It was like, I was interested in that Indiana Jones, as you know, and we discussed it, but then I was like, the price that it was at and then it was covered in Mylar and I was like, if I've got to take all that Mylar off, I'm going to probably end up damaging the playfield. Then I'll have to buy a new playfield. Then it's got to go, like, get all the work to do it, prep it and get it all done properly. It's going to cost me fortune it's just like yeah it's not worth it i'm just like if i can get an indiana jones at the right price without any major legwork to the under the playfield i'll go for one but as you say the market at the moment is in a funny position you've got people still trying to sell stuff where it was not where it should be at no absolutely and and well it just doesn't sell i mean i got a bit of a kicking on facebook because i told someone that they were selling gnr for way more than it than they will ever get for it i'll back you up on that i sold my gnr for less than that and that was back in COVID I wasn't trying to I don't think you were trying to be mean about it I'm never going to buy a GNR so I've got no fight in this right but it looked like you wanted to sell it quick and I was like mate you're not going to get a quick sale it's that simple and he's like oh I'm like mate and then he's like I get all this bullshit about and genuinely what I was trying to do was like honestly mate if you want to sell this you're going to have to think again about the price. Lower your expectations it's the same thing that happened with Alien right there's a lot of people trying to sell their old standard versions for like what I would almost call the price of the new Ripley version absolutely mental there's one on Pinball Owners earlier this week he's trying to sell Alien I think it's the original remake one not the LE one the standard version he's selling it for 8 grand I'm like no one's fucking buying that are you mad so So I just, I think, look, I get it. Pinball is expensive. And people say, oh, Neil, you've got loads of money. You don't have to worry about it. Right, okay. That's how people get rich, by not worrying about it, right? Yeah. But I just kind of, I kind of despair of it. Look, we had this wacky thing called COVID. It generated a behavior. But like, you know, like COVID, it's kind of passed. So the behavior. It's like the used car market, right? That's really bottomed out now, where before it was going sky-high prices. Yeah, I mean, you know, EVs, there's another great one, right? If you've got an electric vehicle, man, you know, you want to have a competition about how to lose money the fastest, buy an EV right now. Jesus Christ. Never call a car an asset, right? Never call an EV a car. I know. Well, you know, I'd like to get back what I paid for it. Look, we all would make, you know. but fortunately there's this thing called reality and and you need to be on the right side of it i mean there's so many crazy and some crazy there's another guy trying to sell um white water for six grand i'm like no no one's buying that for six grand it's weird isn't it because we go back about the whole american market versus uk market i feel like there are prices for games here that are definitely not reflected in the us uh yeah and vice versa i agree and vice versa yeah i mean Look, this is the thing.
    61:05
    I'm still buying games for the club and for home. And, you know, I've had some great deals recently.
    61:14
    You know, the Stars that I talked about, I got that and another very limited edition game that I'll talk about another time for €2,000. It costs more to get them shipped than it costs to buy the games. Wow. You know, and if you go out there... I haven't noticed in Europe, actually, there's a lot of low prices going on for games. Yeah, if you go out there and look, there are deals to be had. It might not be the latest and greatest, but actually some of these older games like Star is such a great game. Even the 90s stuff. I saw like in Europe they were selling a fully restored creature for €4,600. I'm thinking that's pretty good for fully restored. Yeah, I mean, and actually to some extent because of not being in the EU, you know, the tax on that is a bit of a disincentive now. That's the problem, yeah. But it's getting close to that mark. and of course if you go and pick up yourself you can drive it through the green light you can find a way through it I came in with this insurance we don't want anyone dodging taxis because we've got hospitals and train drivers this is all a joke right so moving on I think what have we bought and sold I bought a Quicksilver Cliffy I've bought more than that unfortunately oh yeah well it's like as I mentioned to you before like I think I don't know if I've got it oh actually I have got them here hold on I'm trying to find these so this is more for the benefit of the people on video than it is for the people who are on but yeah this sadly is my third set of hinges I don't even want to go for cyberpunk they look nice they do look nice unfortunately so did the other two sets and you drifted first set was a bit of a muppet i put i just kind of like i have a lot of hinges lying around here a lot yeah i mean i got too much metal work i had to get rid of it yeah i'm unhinged um but i didn't realize that when i sent them off i i should have known it's really obvious as well anybody who knows their hinges would say you're an idiot that's obvious i put stern hinges in there and stern ones are that we're talking like the white star range ones they're big big fat bugs and i was like i opened the box and i said oh god i know what i've done there i've given him stern set i was just jumbling stuff together so i was like hey that's not a problem go back with a second set go back with the second set they look just like these but they were data east data east has two holes yeah not free and the hole here for the hinge pivot is half the diameter of that so then I go back to him and he goes, haven't I already done these? I was like, yeah, kind of. Those were for Dave Rees, these are for Williams, and he didn't really care.
    64:03
    No one's going to want blue hinges. You never know, man. All they'll do is they'll sandblast the old ones down for me. I got some 007 speaker things from Collie Wobbles. He did two sets for me, one for the LE here and one for the premium I've got for the club. but it's like the 007 gun logo on a speaker thing epic job, qualities I'm amazed what else have I put on a whole lot of someone broke my foofa I had a tournament here because the club's closed and someone managed to put a ball through the plastic protectors of my foofa so I've redone all that I also played Mr Stumbler's Area 51 mod and Dave's actually in hiding now because I've hired a hitman to get him was it that complicated to put together then? it was actually really easy and Dave's instructions were spot on right there's just one bit that's just a little bit fiddly and if you're a ham fisted moron like me you just I had a mod just like that so Twilight Zone in the upper play field someone redesigned the switches so you know normally they're just standard like I don want to call them rollover switches but they were leaf switches standard leaf switches so that when the magnet bounces the ball around it can register the shots against the edges of the playfield i suppose up there in the mod someone made it so it was much more glamorous let say um and they were flush and they were like basically inbuilt into like brand new nice chrome plated pieces but the genius that decided that built it all out machined these like tiny tiny tiny little holes to put these tiny little screws in with tiny tiny little washers yeah and you had to wedge that washer in between the chrome plating and the outside to of the pcb to thread through basically to the pcb and the chrome plate to hit the washer yeah i'm using tweezers and i'm just like right i've had enough i got i got to like 20 minutes in i'm not doing this and i sold the set i just i'm not doing it i'm not doing it i'm not spending two hours of my life putting that together i didn't get into that stage but um it it was it was tricky but i persevered actually dave on i watched that and said you need to hide me because there's a hitman coming for you um uh but his instructions were fine it was just and the thing is is you know he's trying to make these mods interactive which means he needs to grab signal from the game sure and that's where this fiddly bit was but once it was in i mean it just looks outstanding um you know they've just some of the stuff he puts together is just amazing i'm i'm uh he really adds a bit of kind of class and shine to something we covered that didn't we guys but i think like for me it's like it's making it look like it came from a manufacturer not from a modder absolutely and with all due respect to modders that that to say you can't it looks like something that's part of the machine it's the best kind of compliment in my book 100% what else have I bought I bought a Flash Gordon it's heading to my storage unit I've got more games in storage than anything else right now it's a bit depressing to see I tell you what storage mate it's not cheap no I've been to your storage unit and I appreciate you letting me borrow some of your games Game of Thrones we didn't talk about it but I'm really enjoying Game of Thrones I do like it it's entirely selfish so I don't have to pay as much storage so I appreciate you and others that have got games actually Mark Kelly just borrowed my Jurassic Park Pro for a bit I'll be honest it kind of depresses me to see the storage when I've got here and Woking, it depresses me to see 30 games in storage it's just like they should be getting played you know I suppose this brings us neatly onto your venue then Yeah absolutely I'll be honest with you I'm a bit cagey about saying anything because we thought we had a place and we got absolutely messed about by this asshat of a landlord or agent. The estate agent was really good, but the guy who was acting for the landlord honestly, I hope he fucking falls over and dies or something. I'm just kidding.
    68:38
    There are certain types of people in this world where if you're negotiating with someone, I believe there's like, in the middle of that negotiation, you're in like a kind of honourable place where you try to find something that works and then either you do a deal or you walk away. What you don't do is negotiate with five people and hope that you get the right thing that you want.
    69:05
    Oh, so you think he was an open bid with everyone else, even a contract agent? There's no question about it. And actually, I kind of tested it by becoming another bidder.
    69:18
    So, yeah, I mean, it's a little bit irritating. And actually, in hindsight, I'm kind of glad I found out because I don't think this place would have been a great landlord for us. Not if that's how they're treating you at the contract stage. Exactly. If you're trying to impress the customer, and that's how you treat them, what's it going to be like when you've signed a deal you're locked in for however many years it's annoying because the venue would have been brilliant it needed work but it would have been great I know you don't want to jinx anything but you say the new location then still somewhere good yeah absolutely it's in a better location I actually posted to LinkedIn believe it or not a bit of a hey network can anyone help me okay and i actually expected to get zero um right but i got it's impressive how many responses i got and actually they put me in touch with the people who really run the property in croydon for croydon council um so we are currently talking to one of croydon Council's contractors, if you like, about a venue that's minutes, literally walking, I mean, not even minutes, two minutes from West Croydon train station.
    70:50
    One minute from the tram stops, and listen to this, this is the best part, 30 seconds from McDonald's. Amazing. Food on tap.
    71:03
    No, but seriously, it's a venue. Is it a bigger venue than the original venue? Can you fit more machines or the same amount? It's bigger, so it's kind of different. I don't want to say too much about it because I don't want to get kind of over. I really actually, part of me doesn't want to say anything, but people keep asking us, so I want to share where we're at. Look, the first thing is we're going to find a venue. It's just a matter of time. We haven't given up. We're not going to give up. We know that we can do it, right? this one we've got a landlord that's really supportive guess what we're trying to do has some commercial realities so you know the price is still going to be a lot more than what we were paying um but it's a modern place it's got air conditioning air conditioning so i'll be there in the summer i usually dodge the club during the summer because i just can't up with the heat in the place um it's got air conditioning it's got nice toilets it's got a little kitchen it's got food and beef and it's just it's right in the middle of croydon a lot of amenities accessible to you yeah so yeah it's it's in a really good location it's got car parking okay you have to pay a couple of quid for the car parking but hey you know it's better than but i imagine it's a maintain car park for a new aloe with all due respect to the old estate I mean that road, my god it was dilapidated I reckon I spent 500 quid on tyres because I lost a tyre in there I got a nail in the tyre and also we don't have the set works guys next door are really good guys but they're a pain in the ass to live with so actually I wanted to say a big thanks to Matt, Di Graham Andy Joe, Clive As I say, when I went to go collect one of the games at the club those guys were working hard Yeah, Mark, Kelly everyone that was involved huge thanks for helping us clear out, not just 65 pinball machines but also clearing out all the clutter two livings full of furniture chucking out, we filled a skit so the club's empty If you go on the club Facebook page You'll see the empties But it was kind of sad to I'm not super tied to anything emotional like that But you know we've been there six years It was great It's kind of sad to see it empty But also as I've said before I'm really glad because if this new venue comes off It's going to be glorious Because we would never have moved to this venue Ever If we'd never been forced out So yeah Luke Everyone that helped us move I really appreciate it, it was heavy lifting it was tiring I literally took a week off to be able to do it because it's just what people don't realise is there's so many little things you have to take care of and I was banging the club volunteers and the club supporters in December label stuff, chuck it out get rid of it we don't have to move out for three months I'm like, yep, that three month's going to come quickly and it did and there was still last minute panic and I was like oh you can't chuck that in the bin because I was kind of a bit you were a bit more draconian I was like well look you've had three freaking months come on so I was a bit kind of brutal on so what you're trying to say is someone saying I need that scart lead I don't want to store stuff that we're never going to use so the stuff we had in the storage I'm like nah I'm not paying to store that so we're a bit brutal on it but I think we got the right outcome in the end but yeah it was heavy lifting we are going to need a kind of Herculean effort to put the club back together when we do the deal which is likely to be end of April beginning of May I think unfortunately the folks that we're dealing with want the lease signed before they'll let us have access so watch the space watch the club Facebook page we'll update as we go like I say I'm still a bit until it's done it's done but I feel incredibly hopeful about this place just because of the focus that the landlord is giving us and the things, the concessions he's making on certain things makes me feel we're in for a really good ride I'll also be able to host the UK Open there which would allow us to put a load more cash into the club.
    75:51
    We should be able to fit 100 games there. So that's going to be excellent. We snuck that out of you in the end. So 100 games, that's pretty good. Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, Luke, we're not there yet. We're hopeful.
    76:07
    We need cash. If you want to donate to us, let us know because we do need cash. I mean, the storage, just so you know, to store our stuff is actually more than the rent we were paying for the old place. and you know we we leaned on storage companies to give us a great deal storage is super expensive in central london actually i've i've i moved a lot of my games back here to woking because the storage is literally half price but we couldn't do that with the furniture because it cost to move it and then move it back yeah it didn't make any sense plus you know there was the unlikely moment of are we really going to keep trying if we you know my sense was look guys if we don't move into a place by August or September are we ever going to find a place but I'm now convinced no matter what we're going to find a place we're going to reopen and thank God because I really miss the league I think it's just the community would be a lesser place, I mean we've touched on this slightly right in the UK, there aren't many places to go and play pinball and in fact tonight there's an event in Funland in London which is an okay place but the games aren't kept in great shape unfortunately I think you said it yourself, you had to go there and level them right? If that's the future of pinball in the UK then it's a pretty depressing future in my view so Luke, if you've got a venue near you, there's Retroids, there's Tilt there's Pinball Office use it or lose it especially when lit use it or lose it and And, you know, we used it, but we still lose it. It's just the legacy of the venue that we were in. But, you know, we'll be back. I'm determined. I'm actually going to miss running the pinball club from a day-to-day perspective.
    78:00
    I imagine a lot of the guys do. It was good, yeah. And we are going to need help, though, with volunteers to open and help us open because, you know, where we are has got some complexities. It's not anything difficult, but just things that are different that we're going to need help with. Any opportunity? Last question, though, for me. Any opportunity there, do you think, to improve, like, I know, for instance, like Matt had the idea of doing, like, the playfield artwork, stuff like that. Are you going to focus on the aesthetics, kind of build up like a. Yeah, look, I mean, we've got a few playfields sticking on the wall, but I think we're not a rich company, right? No, of course not. and so the goal is here's here's what's you know the most important thing for me a level floor because it because in the old place yeah i'll agree with that it used to drive me nuts you move a game an inch and you'd have to re-level it so the great news is we've got a level floor right so we don't need to spend any money on that that's glorious but lighting is the next thing so lighting the club you know we turn off we bought these little up lighters which were okay but actually I need more light than that. I need this level. In my mind, this level of light I've got here is ideal for playing pinball, and it's set up in a way that it doesn't glare, even though I've got non-reflective glass anyway. It just doesn't glare.
    79:24
    And I noticed a difference in it. So I want it to be decent light. We also were definitely going to have a more active streaming setup. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Because other venues, particularly in the US, get a lot of interest because they stream stuff. So we're going to have a commentary booth. We're going to have... See, this is what I was on about when it comes to adding aesthetics. That's good. Yeah, I mean, look, it might not look perfect from day one, but the other thing we're going to have, the entry is going to have like a... We had a lot of desk-level stuff, which then people put stuff on and it looks like a mess, like their bag or their cigarettes or their beer or whatever, we're going to elevate to kind of bar, bench level.
    80:14
    And also there's enough space for us to put down proper seating. The big challenge at the club was there was very limited seating.
    80:23
    Have we got, you know, we need to, you know, there's certain elements of how we are going to... Is there going to be like a breakout area, stuff like that, do you think? There will be a little breakout area, but the beauty of it, Luke, we'll have a little breakout area where people have a cup of tea or something, but there's loads of breakout areas outside the venue.
    80:45
    That's true, yes, you said it. So I think the need to have that is a bit different. We'll still have tea and coffee and the vending machine will still be there, et cetera, et cetera, but it won't be the room that we had before, but there'll be an area for sure. and you know the pinball community if there's one thing i've learned about them they're all big tea drinkers so we definitely need to cater to that right but i'm excited about a great place that have great reachability for people literally you'll be able to get from central london to the new pinball republic in 20 minutes right it's good 20 minutes really good and Gatwick to the new Pinball Republic in 30 minutes and it literally is walk off the train walk into Pinball Republic that's how it's going to be there's some issues we need to solve but they're all solvable Luke with what we've really gone on with when I merge the other content in it's going to be a long podcast so apologies for that if this has been too long, hopefully you've been sensible and listened to it in different parts again thanks to Colin and Paul for joining us we'll have them back after Pinfest after TPF and Luke we're really the pinball summer is starting to come, I don't know about you but I've had enough of this rain Scott I've had enough of this cold yeah that as well looking forward to getting out and about and seeing a few events and stuff so I think at that stage we'll call it Scott as always thank you for joining us and being the core the core kind of playability talisman that you are for the podcast mate I was kind of making it up. I just like to be the other voice, Neil.
    82:56
    You need to be the... You need to that what you will. This is the thing about having Colin and Paul on is there are so many voices in this hobby. It's amazing that we've got the community that we've got in some respects because... Very true. You can get quite polarised on certain things. I get polarised because I like people... I definitely would like it if we do more breakout with more people bringing in I think we will, I think that works really well, we'll definitely get more guests on for certain and let's see if there's a guest that you want by all means see if you can get George Gomez because when I reached out to him about my re-theme for Johnny Mnemonic he went radio silent he was all interacting going oh you're doing this, you're doing that and I said yeah and this is what we've done nothing.
    83:51
    I don't know if he was too happy with what I did to his game. I think what it'll be is, right, so George, he's always worried about pissing off licensors. I suspect you doing an unlicensed hack on a licensed game has probably got his worry muscle moving. I will ping George and ask if he wants to come on. Yeah, I'd love to. Do you know what? I love his code. I love his games. I honestly try and avoid Getting the pinball Folks on because it's kind of Unpaid overtime for a lot of these guys But I'll ask in what case he says no There's probably a couple of other guys From Stern that would join us If I asked them nicely I keep meaning Joel from Triple Dream He's promised to join us I keep meaning to follow him up on that But yeah let's try and get a few guests on for we'll have Colin and Paul back for post-Pinfest. Absolutely, yeah, I'd love to see what they thought about all the games there hopefully. Actually, maybe we'll ask Phil to come on and tell us about Pinfest as well. Yeah, absolutely. Phil, if you're up for it, let us know.
    85:06
    And, yeah, Scott and I are going to do a kind of a live broadcast for at least five minutes before we give up on the technology from Pinfest later on this year. Anyway, we've yacked on long enough. Scott, thank you. Everyone who watches and gives us feedback,
    85:25
    Luke, feedback's a gift. If we're rubbish or we're doing something that you don't like, tell us about it. We won't be offended. We're not here to make money. We're not here to win awards. It's just two bozos on a mic talking to each other, right, with the occasional guest bozo, right? we want this to be something that people want to listen to otherwise why would we do it right but we enjoy doing this it's a bit of fun especially when Scott says Godzilla is the worst game he's ever played remember Scott said I said that apparently exactly the worst game he's ever played pile in on the comments on that tell him how wrong he is life is good when we get back from TVF I do want to give Scott a bit of time to talk about his re-theme because he posted some pictures of it and it looks you hear a lot of traction on Facebook actually I was surprised at how many likes I hit and the reviews absolutely out of this world you know a piece of work that you and Holly and some helpers have done it's staggeringly good yeah appreciate that thanks Thanks for watching. We will probably be back late March after the TPL. Play pinball, go to a venue, spend some money in the venue, keep pinball venues running. Pinball is all about enjoying it with friends. If you have a few games, invite your mates around, have a bit of a laugh and remember that Scott said Godzilla is the worst game he ever played.
    87:11
    Thanks, guys. Bye-bye.