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#77 Double Down? - The Classic Pinball Podcast

The Classic Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·55m 38s·analyzed·Feb 22, 2022
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Classic Pinball Podcast explores pinball sequels, remakes, and multi-version games across manufacturers.

Summary

George and Dave discuss pinball sequel and remake games, exploring titles with multiple iterations across different manufacturers. The episode covers classic examples like Black Knight (original, 2000, Sword of Rage), Star Trek (multiple versions), Batman (Data East, Stern, '66), and Spider-Man, while debating whether remakes and cosmetic variants qualify as true sequels. The hosts also share restoration anecdotes and tangential pop culture commentary.

Key Claims

  • Steve Ritchie designed High Speed, Getaway, and Black Knight series games

    high confidence · George and Dave discussing Steve Ritchie's design work and his signature right flipper loop shot

  • Black Knight Sword of Rage is a Stern modernization of the Black Knight franchise, designed by Steve Ritchie

    high confidence · Dave confirms Steve Ritchie designed the Stern version; described as modernization with new elements

  • There are at least three different 8-Ball Deluxe variations (standard, Limited Edition, and one more)

    high confidence · George and Dave discuss '8-Ball Deluxe' as a three-game franchise with same playfield and theme

  • Star Trek Next Gen (Data East) was released around 1990-1991

    medium confidence · Dave estimates 1990-1991; George says 'that's a cool hologram thing' confirming it's Data East version

  • The original Spider-Man pinball by Stern was released in 2007

    high confidence · George reads from IPDB: 'says that the game was made in 2007? That sounds right'

  • A nice condition Star Trek Next Gen (Data East) sold for $7,500 and could fetch $9,000-$10,000 now

    high confidence · George: 'The one I sold, the nice one I had, I think I sold it for $7,500... could probably get more... like around 9 or 10K now'

  • Jersey Jack Pinball has released multiple Wizard of Oz editions with different color variants

    medium confidence · George lists Emerald City, Yellow Brick Road, Ruby Slippers, and mentions possibly 4-5 different versions total

  • Fathom remake is not yet released, so it was excluded from the sequel discussion

    high confidence · George: 'Do we include Fathom, the remake, even though it's not out yet? No.'

Notable Quotes

  • “I happen to like all those games. I like them all. It's kind of like the Fast and the Furious movies.”

    Dave @ ~09:30 — Dave's analogy explaining why sequels work despite theme evolution; illustrates design philosophy behind franchise extensions

  • “Don't you do a sequel because of the recognition? People can identify with the theme right away. So you don't have to explain the premise.”

    Dave @ ~10:15 — Core insight on sequel strategy: leveraging existing brand recognition to reduce explanation overhead

  • “The entire back glass delaminated. In strips. He saved them and showed them... It's called the enemy of good is better.”

    George @ ~25:40 — Restoration warning story about back glass coating failures; illustrates restoration risks and preservation caution

  • “All the Vault does typically is just add a bunch of freaking LEDs to the thing, and they cheapen out the wiring. They put finer gauge wire in there.”

    Dave @ ~38:50 — Criticism of Stern Vault Edition strategy; reveals cost-cutting practices in premium editions

  • “You don't come to us for accuracy. This is... a very loyal audience.”

    George @ ~19:00 — Self-aware meta-commentary on show's accuracy and loyal but forgiving audience; sets expectations

  • “Gary Stern recycled. I mean, he probably should have called this the Gary Stern Recycle Tour.”

    George @ ~32:15 — Commentary on Gary Stern's business model of reusing playfields across multiple themes, mirroring Gottlieb's approach

  • “The one I sold, the nice one I had, I think I sold it for $7,500. I could probably get more... like around 9 or 10K now.”

    Dave @ ~28:00 — Price appreciation example for rare Star Trek Next Gen machine; indicates market heating

Entities

GeorgepersonDavepersonSteve RitchiepersonGary SternpersonJackpersonJim ComplepersonTed KnightpersonStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_strategy: Discussion reveals pattern of manufacturers (Stern, Data East, Bally) extending successful franchises through sequels, modernizations, and themed variants to leverage brand recognition and reduce marketing burden

    high · Dave's Fast and Furious analogy; discussion of Black Knight, Star Trek, Batman, Spider-Man franchises spanning multiple manufacturers and decades

  • ?

    product_concern: Stern Vault Editions criticized for cost-cutting: fine-gauge wiring substitution, LED-only upgrades, cheaper manufacturing despite premium positioning

    medium · Dave: 'All the Vault does typically is just add a bunch of freaking LEDs... they cheapen out the wiring... finer gauge wire'

  • $

    market_signal: Star Trek Next Gen (Data East) appreciating significantly; Dave sold one for $7,500, estimates current value $9,000-$10,000. Indicates rarity and collector demand for vintage Data East titles

    high · Dave: 'The one I sold... $7,500... could probably get more... like around 9 or 10K now' and '$1,200... it's a deal'

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Back glass coating (triple-thick, cover glass) delamination risk in humid conditions; Jack's Star Trek delaminated in strips during humidity surge; hosts advise against coating applications without expertise

    high · George's Jack story: 'All white... Fuzzy. The entire back glass delaminated. In strips.' Warning: 'don't just assume... when you do something like that. You better know what you're doing'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Jersey Jack's Wizard of Oz has multiple color/lockdown bar variants (Emerald City, Yellow Brick Road, Ruby Slippers, Flying Monkey); raises question of collectibility vs. saturation

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.167

0:00
One is the loneliest number that you'll ever do. Two can be as bad as one. It's the loneliest number since the number one.
0:30
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Classic Pinball Podcast. My name is George. I'm number two.
0:49
And here's number one. Dave. George, you're not number two. You're listening to too many haters out there. No, it's about the premise of this show, Dan. Oh, okay, George. People are probably wondering, too. Well, I came up with the idea that today is February 22, 1922. And the premise behind the show is we're going to go with pinball titles that have at least two games. And in some cases, we're going to take the liberty, it's the same game, sort of, with a different theme. You'll get a better understanding as we move forward.
1:35
So, a follow-up, or we might call it a second chapter, is a piece of work that builds or exploits the success of an earlier work.
1:46
How'd I do, Dave? Decent explanation as to what we're going to do today? Right on. Sounds good to me. before we get started, well no, actually I can integrate it into one of the first two games we're going to talk about. Recently Dave and I have done two of these games.
2:05
Data East
company
Ballycompany
Jersey Jack Pinballcompany
Gottliebcompany
Black Knight seriesgame
Star Trek franchise (pinball)game
Batman franchise (pinball)game
Wizard of Oz (Jersey Jack)game
Spider-Man (Stern)game
8-Ball Deluxegame
Evel Knievel (Bally)game
New Hampshire Cooperativevenue
Betson'svenue
Megan Nickperson
Maureenperson
CPR (Custom Pinball Restoration)product

medium · George lists 4-5 Wizard of Oz versions; questions if JJP 'wins the prize of having the most remakes'; notes variants are minimal (color lockdown bar changes)

  • ?

    industry_signal: Gary Stern's playfield recycling strategy directly mirrors Gottlieb's EM-era approach; manufacturers reuse playfield tooling across multiple themes to reduce costs and maximize ROI

    high · George: 'Gary Stern recycled... should have called this the Gary Stern Recycle Tour... He learned from Gottlieb... did the same freaking thing... El Dorado, El Dorado City, Goal, Target Alpha'

  • ?

    design_innovation: Steve Ritchie's signature right-flipper loop shot (seen in High Speed, Getaway, Black Knight series) is mechanically distinctive and highly regarded; influences game's desirability and competitive play

    high · Dave: 'Steve Ritchie... special shot he did from the right flipper going up and around... he's known for this kind of loop... definitely cool. People like the game...'

  • ?

    content_signal: Classic Pinball Podcast episode #77 released on February 22, 2022 (matching date motif); hosts note nearly 3 years of broadcasts without formal email/social contact infrastructure

    high · George: 'today is February 22, 2022... premise behind the show'... 'almost three years and I've never given out anything... We don't do social media'

  • ?

    community_signal: Podcast assumes high collector familiarity; discussion of specific machines (Evel Knievel restoration in progress), playfield restoration techniques, secondary market pricing indicates deep collector audience

    high · Extended discussion of restoration workflow (Magic Eraser, Novus II, playfield protector, CPR); specific pricing data; casual references to owned machines

  • ?

    product_concern: CPR (Custom Pinball Restoration) playfield coating availability declining; timing-dependent purchasing required; hosts note CPR easier to obtain in past

    medium · Dave: 'Can you buy a CPR anymore? Not as easy... You gotta be Johnny on the spot... they changed the process... hit it while it's there, or it's gone for a while'

  • ?

    historical_signal: Steve Ritchie's design philosophy and mechanical signatures (right flipper loop) persist across 30+ years of sequels (Black Knight original → 2000 → Sword of Rage); establishes enduring designer brand

    high · Black Knight series spans Bally original, Black Knight 2000, and Stern's Black Knight Sword of Rage; Dave notes Ritchie 'modernized it again' with Sword of Rage while preserving original design intent

    • The Rolling Stones and Kiss. Both of those games were released by Bally back in the late 70s, early 80s.
    2:16
    Early 80s, right? Anyway, it doesn't matter. And then Stern came out with the same title years later.
    2:26
    Any comments about the Stearns? Because people can listen back at our last couple episodes if they want to know about the Valley Games. That's a good teaser, George. They should do that. I don't have a lot of experience with Mick on a Stick and the Kiss game. The only time I played Kiss is at the New Hampshire Cooperative. yet another show. Man, I'm getting really bad with the plugs. We're not even two minutes into this.
    2:54
    I don't have a lot of game time with either of those two titles. How about you? Mick on a Stick, no. But the new Stern Modern Kiss, yes I have. Same Kevin O'Connor doing it. Same Pup Bumper caps too from the Valley he used to incorporate a lot of that stuff. but I still like the classic Kiss better from Bally than the Stern one.
    3:21
    I'm going to continue on the Bally role here. Now, here I'm taking a couple of liberties. Would you consider Centaur and the second reprise of Centaur? What cabinet did they call that? Centaur II was in that cabinet that was in the Rapid Fire cabinet. and what other games did they make with that cabinet? The El Stinkeroo. They said, hey, we're going to do just like Williams did and do a, whatever that game is called. So what games? Rapid Fire. So is Mr. and Mrs. Pac-Man, is that one of those games?
    4:01
    Mr. and Mrs. Pac-Man. Or is that a different cabinet? No, same cabinet. No, they said, we cannot sell this freaking game, and we thought we could. We're going to capitalize on this like Williams is doing, and no. Oh, Hyperball, sorry. Williams at Hyperball.
    4:17
    It was doing great at first, and it fell right off the curb. Then Bally put theirs out when that was all done.
    4:27
    Their little gun thing that shot the balls out, it's almost like a gun. It was getting so hot. It was kind of melting and having all kinds of problems. I don't think I've ever played that. They said, okay, scrap that. We're just going to not make that game anymore. make however many hundred they made, and we're going to make Mr. and Mrs. Pac-Man, since Pac-Man's very popular. We're going to make another 8-Ball Deluxe Limited Edition. Oh, so there was an 8-Ball Deluxe. Yep, Limited Edition. So that would be the next game we talk about. Yep, LE. And a Centaur II. Right. All with a small head. You're kind of jumping ahead, but that's okay. So would you say that a follow-up game to Fonzie 8-Ball and 8-Ball Deluxe? Kind of a stretch. Okay, so are there two or three 8-Ball Deluxes? There are three 8-Ball Deluxes. Okay, so forget Fonzie. Forget Fonzie. We have the same theme in three games. And the same play field in three games. Okay, so that's our first three-gamer. Okay. The premise was two, but we're going to have a couple of threes. I said that. Sure. I also, did I mention that this is not a complete list, and if you're out there yelling at the podcast, look, I'm not an expert. I went through a couple of lists. I tried to find all the games. If you come up with one, you can try to figure out how to get that information to us. We're not experts. We play one on TV, George. We try anyway. Okay. Okay, so you want to move into the Steve Ritchie world? Because he's famous for this. Okay, go ahead.
    6:15
    Well, so is High Speed one of those follow-up sequel games? Yeah, The Getaway to High Speed, sure. Okay. Yeah.
    6:24
    He also did Black Knight, which they're, again, breaking the rules. Yeah. Famous for that. Three. Yeah. I think it's definitely cool. You've got Black Knight and it continued with the theme in Black Knight 2000, which had elements of the original, but made it even more modern. There was some different stuff thrown in. And then you go to Swords of Rage by Stern, which is again Steve Ritchie, and he did modernize it again. So, kept the theme going and kind of just added something to it. I happen to like... You've heard me say it in multiple shows. I happen to like all those games. I like them all it's kind of like the Fast and the Furious movies you get the first one you know what they are? They're street racers and they're illegal street racers and very exciting then you fast forward to Fast and the Furious 9 and all of a sudden they're secret spy people and they're doing spy stuff and you know what they know about secret spy stuff? nothing they're illegal street racers but somehow they have spy stuff Don't you do a sequel because of the recognition? People can identify with the theme right away. So you don't have to explain the premise of the game or the movie or the software. You automatically know. It's built in. Oh, it's that. So it's going to be like that with a little different flavor. Okay, I kind of like where it's themed. So I'll probably like what's going to go on in this thing. So do we, again, another game, again, if I said this already, I can't believe the number of games we've done on this list. And here's another one. Do you consider NASCAR and Dale Earnhardt to be a sequel, or am I stretching it? Same play field, sort of. No, different artwork, though. Sort of. Yeah, well, it's different artwork. No, even the play field is different artwork, too. Oh, that just made me think of. But the same layout. I'm going to forget if I don't say it right now. Okay, so Stern's got this whole arm of home games or we'll make your theme in a platform. So games like Primus, Pabst Blue Ribbon. I'm not even going to remember them all because I wasn't prepared for this. I just remembered it. Do you think those are sequel follow-up games? It's the same platform. It's just... It's cookie cutter. Okay. It's like buy a game. It's a Costco game. Buy a game of Costco. If I didn't think of that, somebody would come back and say, well, you didn't. Of course not. You don't. If I have to tell this audience for the upteenth time, you don't come to us for accuracy. This is. You know what, George? Don't sweat the gammas.
    9:13
    Gamma's got a gamma. I don't. We have a very loyal audience. My plea or grovel the other day and Rolling Stones paid off. thank you very much folks it's one of the best episodes no you're not going to hear that I know and we forgot to do the we didn't turn your key we forgot to do the snap we did a pre-key we're going to continue down the road here we go you want to talk about Star Trek or do you want to talk about Guns and Roses let's go Star Trek you're going to handle this one because I only have one story. Okay.
    9:57
    Did I ever tell the story about Jack having a pristine Star Trek, the Bally original one, and he went to coat, what do they call the coating that you use on the back of back glasses? Oh, no, not the, it's cover your glass is one of them. That's not the one. And triple thick. That. Okay, triple thick's actually better than cover glass, but it still has problems. Still do not use that stuff. It's bad mojo. When Jack lived at the Jersey Shore, you've heard me talk about him before,
    10:30
    I think he was getting some pull-up somewhere on the back glass. It's called blooming. Right, yeah. Well, he happened to clear it during a humid stretch in New Jersey. Oh, no, even worse. Yeah, you know what happened, right? All white. No. What? Fuzzy. The entire back glass delaminated. Oh, that sounds good. In strips. He saved them and showed them. Fantastic. The artwork came off in strips.
    11:00
    You know what that's called? It's called the enemy of good is better. Right. Well, don't just assume that there's no outside interference from the elements when you do something like that. You better know what you're doing. I've been successful with it, but I don't know if I would do it now.
    11:21
    I wouldn't. Talk about the other three Star Treks, because I'm familiar with one of them, the one with the guns on the cannons. Star Trek Next Gen, Jean-Luc Picard. Now, is that the second one or the third one? That is the third one. So what's the second one? It's Data East Star Trek. That's going to be my next question. That's a cool hologram thing on that game. I'm not familiar with it. So, it kind of... It looks like they're beaming in on the... They're beaming in at some point on the back glass. So, this is a 90s game? 90s game. I want to say like 90, 91, I'm thinking. We're going to come to Data East in a minute. I can look it up. No, not important yet. In a minute. So, the third game is the one with the cannons.
    12:09
    Yes. Jack found one of those games just a long time ago. For cheap money. $1,200. That's a deal. He didn't buy it. He gave it to our friend Jim Comple. And Jim, if you ever hear this, I hope you do. Long time. He's one of the first people I ever met in pinball. So, like you. So I know him for like 20 years. Yeah, Jack turned him on to it. And he was, how much is that game now? Got to be four or five grand? No. No? More than that. Even more? Yeah. Especially a nice one. The one I sold, the nice one I had, I think I sold it for $7,500. Wow. I could probably get more. That could probably get, if I still had it, like around 9 or 10K now for that game. So then the fourth game is a Stern game. Sometime in the 2010 plus.
    12:57
    Something like that. Yeah, around there. Okay. Yeah. I'm not familiar with that. 2010, is that long ago? No, maybe. It might be a couple more years. No, 14 or 15. Okay. Yeah, 2014. So within the last 10 years. Yeah. Not real familiar with that game.
    13:10
    One game. Another Steve Ritchie game. Oh, okay. Didn't know that either. Yeah, Steve Ritchie, that special shot he did from the right flipper going up and around, that kind of loop thing he's famous for. He did it on high speed. I think he also did it on the getaway. Getaway definitely has it. He's known for this kind of loop from the right flipper going around, around, around, around. So is that one of the reasons why that game is in such high demand and revered? I hear a lot of people talk about the Stern version. Yeah, it is. Yeah, because the Steve Ritchie thing. Yeah, people like the game. And also Tron, although this is going off topic a bit, but Tron is getting ridiculous money for that game now. You can find it especially the LE I think it going for like out there some stupid thing It amazing We come to the stupidity in a little while So let talk about Guns N Roses the original I have a question. The original is called Guns N' Butter. It's an economic thing. Go ahead, George.
    14:11
    The economic. I get it. I don't want to get it. I might get infected. And did Stern, did he own that company?
    14:27
    Who owned Data East? That was Gary Stern. So he did? He did. He changed it many times over the years.
    14:36
    He went bankrupt, changed the name. Went bankrupt, changed the name. Do you want to talk about Gary here for a minute? Sure. He had really cool white glasses, white rimmed glasses. Forget all that. I mean, I've heard all those stories. Actually, I don't like the red rimmed glasses. He recycled. I mean, he probably should have called this the Gary Stern Recycle Tour. He learned from Gottlieb. Gottlieb did it all the time back in the day. He did the same freaking thing as Gottlieb did.
    15:05
    With EMs? Yeah. El Dorado. And then El Dorado City and Goal. And then Target Alpha. You just released the hounds. now everybody's going to come and go well all you guys talked about was solid states you didn't talk about EM look we're getting there that's not what the show's about so you made it this far and you're going to start throwing stuff at us don't that's not the idea here we're talking about solid states but I didn't even think it takes you to say something so there Okay, so there was a Guns N' Roses from Data East.
    15:50
    I'm familiar with that game. Yes. And now you have the new one, which we played and people heard us play at Allentown. Like the game. A little long, but like the game.
    16:02
    We already talked about 8-Ball. That was next on the list. You kind of moved that up the list. Let's talk about Spider-Man. I completely forgot that we had done an episode on the original Spider-Man. Yeah, yeah. That's like over a year ago. Sounds right. Right. I forgot about it. That should tell you pretty much what I thought of the game.
    16:25
    But they have the newer Spider-Man made within the last ten years. I don't have the exact date. It doesn't matter. And we were talking before we started that Stern came out with a Vault Edition. So the idea was, is it three Spider-Man games, or is the vault the same as the other one? I read that they changed quite a few things in the vault, and that the play field was different, but I've never seen one, so I can't comment, unless you want me to pull it up on IPDB while you're commenting. You could pull it up, because I'm not aware, I thought the vault... Do you know anything about the game first, the Stern one? Yes, I do. Okay, so go ahead.
    17:06
    There's a bunch of fan layout with ramps. The end. Like every Stern gang. You can talk about everything else. That's all you got? Okay. That's all you got? I know there's like a Sandman thing in there. It's some ramps and some crap. I don't know.
    17:28
    You're killing me. I mean, all they're going to do with the... You're killing me. All the vault does typically is just add a bunch of freaking LEDs to the thing, and they cheapen out the wiring. They put finer gauge wire in there to cheap out on the wiring, as far as I know. You know, I will say they probably use a better sound. Oh, so the original Spider-Man, I was wrong.
    17:48
    It says that the game was made in 2007? That sounds right. Okay, so now, prototype, prototype. That was when New England Pinball League was around. I was playing that league. So, it's not even in here.
    18:03
    The other one. Yeah. The vault. Yeah. Okay, we're going to have to punt on that one, folks. I'm not going to go digging.
    18:12
    So anyway, if you know something about that, you can just yell and say, yeah, you guys don't know what you're talking about, which we probably don't. Okay, continue with the list. So we're on the... We're on the heroes theme. How about Batman?
    18:31
    Batman, yes. Batman! That's Ted Knight. So you have, again, the Data East version. Yes. You've got the 2008 Stern version. And then you have the one I really like, which is the Batman 66, because I'm of that generation where that was one of my favorite TV shows as a kid.
    18:57
    Me too. I mean, I actually remember when the show was on at 7.30 on, I think it was Monday and Tuesday nights, or Tuesday and Wednesday nights, back to back. When was the last time you ever saw a show like that on TV?
    19:10
    How about, like, never? 60s TV was freaking awesome because you had The Monkees, you had Batman, you had Star Trek. You know, it's like cutting edge stuff. I only got two out of the three that I liked. I wasn't a big Star Trek fan. Okay. Not Outer Limits. No, Twilight Zone. No, it's 50s. Twilight Zone 50s. It was on reruns. Remember, I grew up in New Jersey. When you're talking prime time, late 1960s prime time TV, you had Star Trek was on. You had Batman was on. How about, I never hear anybody talk about this, and I was wondering if there's a cult following. How about Get Smart? Get Smart, yes. Yeah, I used to watch that with 99 in his shoe. He had a shoe phone. Saturday nights. That was a Saturday night show. Okay. God, I'm old.
    19:57
    No comment. No comment, George. Okay, so here's. I'm old, too. Sorry. Any comments on Batman? So that's a three. That's a three. So here's yours. I think this one's a stretch, but you can try to convince me otherwise. The original Bally Wizard and then the game Tommy. I think you got a stretch. No, no, it's definitely part two. It's part two because it's all... So do you throw Captain Fantastic in there too? with, oh with that? No. Well, let me see. No, because different artwork. They kept the same color theme with the yellows and the reds of Tommy to Wizard. But I know what you're saying. I'd say Wizard and Captain Fantastic are sister games. In fact, at one point I had those two games sitting next to each other done by the same artist and I also had I think I had Dave Christensen artwork. All, like five or six games all together. What a gorgeous collection all lit up in a room. Turn the lights down, put that up and just go over there and just stare at them. Don't even need to play them. Very nice. If you have the means, please do. Okay.
    21:12
    How about Playboy? Not right now, George. We're doing a podcast. No, no, no. Oh. Well, first off, have any of you been following the Secrets of Playboy on TV. Yes, Maureen's a big fan. She loves the dirt. She loves the soap opera stuff, biography. Oh, man. And I knew the guy was a freaking I don't know, perv.
    21:41
    Thank you for not Thank you for editing yourself. It makes my job a lot easier. And beyond, man. Whenever I would go out to see Hefner, I would stay with Bobby in her apartment in the mansion. And she would say, okay, let's go down to the pinball room and a half would join us and we'd spend several hours smoking weed and playing pinball. He's a nice guy. Child of the 60s and 70s. He's a nice old man. He's a nice guy. No, no. If you haven't seen it, man, your mind is going to change. He was not the man he portrayed himself as. I knew it the whole time. I knew the guy was... Never gave it much thought. Instead of that, watch Pam and Tommy. That's a much more enjoyable show. I haven't seen... Is that on... That's on Hulu. No, I don't have Hulu. But you don't need Hulu. You can just go get the... Yeah, I know. You can go out and steal. You can get jailbreak. I get it.
    22:37
    So, let's go. So, we have the Bally Playboy. We have the Data East Playboy, which I wasn't familiar with. And I happened to see somebody playing it on Twitch the other day. And I was like, wow, okay, that's a new one on me. So, I added it to the list. That wasn't on my list originally. And then you have the Stern Playboy, which I do remember when that came out, and I probably talked about this, when I went to Betson's. They had it. The X-rated one? They had some stuff in there. No, in the showroom they didn't have the X-rated cards. Yeah. That's kind of a... That was a little... No, but they... I mean, you've got the general idea, and I knew that there was another deck of cards for that mech. but is that a collectible game? I've only had, one customer has one. He's local too but otherwise I've not seen the game around.
    23:32
    Okay. We talked about Black Knight, right? We already talked about that. Yes. Did a couple of these. How about Pinbot? I'm not real familiar with the game. I've seen it online. I've played it a handful of times. Yeah, three of those. You got Pinbot. You got Bride of Pinbot. And you have Jackpot.
    23:53
    Oh, there's a third one. Jackpot's the 90s one. Am I going to have to rename the show? You might have to do a triplet. How many threes? Well, we've had one four, and we've had a lot of threes. At least doubles. Okay. So here we get into the conjecture.
    24:11
    Do we include remakes in this two-show? I'll give you all my examples. The recently released Cactus Canyon. Attack from Mars, Medieval Madness. Is there any other ones that they've redone? Don't say Fathom. Whoa, sorry. What are you doing? Sorry, never mind that. Keep going, George.
    24:37
    I was going to say, do we include Fathom, the remake, even though it's not out yet? No. And I'm not going to go down that road.
    24:47
    Well, you could, because it takes Fathom and kind of modernize a little bit. Right, but it's not out yet. I know. I mean, I still... And you know we're going to do a show on it anyway, so why don't we punt? We can... Sure. We'll revisit that. I only have one more left. How are we doing the... We got to 24. Okay, so maybe not as long as I thought, but I can gussy it up a little bit. That's right, you can gussy it up a little bit.
    25:15
    Here's my last one. Sure. Unless you have something to add. do we include the Wizard of Oz in this list given the fact that Jersey Jack has reproduced that game what do they have the Emerald City game the Yellow Brick Road edition um do they have the Flying Monkey edition or Ding Dong the Witch is Dead edition have they done any of those yet I mean it just seems like they slapped something oh no the Ruby Slippers one That's another one. So how many more? There's probably, what, like four or five different versions? Do they win the prize of having the most, quote-unquote, remakes of a game? I guess they just keep changing the color of the lockdown bar, and I don't know. Do you think there's somebody insane enough to collect every edition? Well, for Wizard of Oz, you'd probably have to go to P-Town. You'd probably have a lot of customers there, I would say, George.
    26:18
    Or maybe San Fran. If you're not from... People will relate to that. Both. Both, George. Dave lives in Massachusetts, so go look it up. You can look it up by P-Town. But anyway. Yeah.
    26:34
    I'm going to steer clear of comedy. I'm going to go back to Ted Knight and Batman. Let's see. No. Batman and Robin. See?
    26:44
    Batman and Robin. Wonder Woman. No, they didn't make that game yet, but they might. Wonder Woman. Do you think that would be a popular game? Well, in today's society where... I don't go down that road. Where I see young men wearing the future is female t-shirts, possibly.
    27:04
    Jack Danger? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not me. I already did this once. No. bad Dave just bleep it hit the button hit a ding ding button yeah I did that a couple times already unless you have something else to add this list is probably incomplete we're not going to talk about electromechanicals I got something to add for sequels remember back whatever episode that was the fishtails one So that a good one Fish Tales Right the Jaws episode The Jaws episode Right With the dog With the dog With the horny dog The horny dog Well we have a sequel When I went to go look at a Dolly Parton out in Western Mass recently the guy had three of those dogs. One's name was Roger. Roger was very friendly.
    28:06
    So much friendly. You already had that joke in the last, in the Rolling Stone. We're not doing that again. Roger liked my leg. No, no, no. Right. He liked my leg. I thought, never mind. I thought you were going to use a Richard joke. No, no, no, no, no. He liked my leg. But you raise a good question. Yes. Do you think there would ever be another Dolly Parton game made? No. Dolly Parton has dentures now. It's terrible. You see her? The work done on her face? Not too good. I want to go see her. Why? Ugh. You know what she does? American Icon? She just did something with freaking Miley Cyrus. Oh, no. But with a 5G commercial on freaking the Super Bowl. If you got handed the stacks that she probably got handed, you would probably do it with almost anybody. Speaking of Super Bowl. Oh, no. I got a couple of factoids. Gentle. So if you looked at all the Super Bowl stuff and looked at all the commercials and the vibe, basically the vibe is they pushed 5G in the commercials, they pushed the metaverse in the commercials, and they pushed crypto on the commercials. so and also the halftime show they pushed um nostalgia for dr dre and back in that time frame the 90s the 90s they pushed that they pushed backward stuff so the whole thing was they want you to put on the goggles for the metaverse uh use crypto to get there you're spending uh crypto money inside the metaverse and using 5g to power it crypto george man crypto george oh no crypto bad bad bad i want you no no no what do we call me meta george meta george meta george meta george no crypto no i didn't i didn't pay up for my uh piece of uh no i'm gonna move up to a farm in the woods yeah i'm gonna go on the mountain somewhere real real i want real i'm right yeah i want real I want to smell the grass. Terra firma. Exactly. I want to walk barefoot through the grass. I have to put a shout out. First of all, I'll ask you the question.
    30:09
    Have you watched any of the Olympics? No. Like most Americans. That's a no. They say that the numbers are down almost 50%. Good. It should be. No. I have a shout out. Okay.
    30:26
    Actually. It was depressing watching it, but go ahead. My college fraternity member, his daughter just won an Olympic bronze in ski aerials.
    30:42
    So congratulations to Megan Nick. I know her dad, Jeff. I kind of remember her mom, Bagley, Colleen, but congratulations. That's a hell of an accomplishment. Very nice. And I have watched a little bit of the Olympics.
    31:02
    Mostly biathlon and snowboarding. Uh-oh. Uh-oh, this is probably the Olympics. Wait, let's see what the Olympics are here. Tell me about the bronze.
    31:21
    It's the bronze. Oh, yeah. There he goes. Oops. Oh no Grant would like that show Why don't you just tell me That you want to put something in the show I should Oh well That's a major fail Just send me the clip Alright send all hate mail to George Have you ever heard me give out I'll end with this Go ahead I attempted to go out and find the email I created for this show and for the life of me I can't figure out how I did it so I might have to come up with a new gmail address for our show it won't be the obvious it'll have to have something on the tail oh because you used the original one you can't find it you can do lost password and say he sent me the... They say I don't have it. What do you mean you don't have it? They say that I didn't, that you're not the person who originated that email address. I can't figure... I'm done. Maybe the next show. Okay. Maybe. We've gone this far. We're almost three years and I've never given out anything social... We don't do social media.
    32:44
    We really, other than your email, we really don't do emails either. I know that's a detriment, but hey, all you people who listen, you're fortunate. You're part of a little club.
    32:59
    Yeah, it's a special club. Not like a short bus special, but special. Got to cut that too. You know, George, when you were trying to get your password, I think you were kind of like Bill O'Reilly here. Hey, look, I'm not texting. Do it live. Kind of like this.
    33:17
    Well, do it live! Fuck it! do it live I'll write it and we'll do it live fucking thing sucks I can't put that in oh you're killing me okay we're done turn it off George turn it off episode 77 of the classic pinball podcast my name is George everybody have a great week, a great day happy flipping my name is Dave and everybody stay blessed and stay thankful out there you guys happy flipping there we go a double pleasure is waiting for you a double pleasure from Double Midgum a double great feeling making you realize Double is the one for you. All right, so George, what do you think? First impressions, George. Well, actually, look that way first. Were you looking now? I haven't looked at anything. Well, look at that where you're looking right now. What do you think? Do you see space? Yeah, what the hell do you see? Do you see a treadmill? What did you do? I was doing some moving. I moved some games out. What did you sell? I sold some stuff, and I moved some stuff around. What'd you sell?
    34:47
    You know. No, I don't know. That's why I asked. Look at... What about this? What's going on? What do you think of this stuff? Oh, now I know why you baited me. This is awesome. What are you doing here? All right, well, so what we got here is we got a... We got my original Evel Knievel on the rotisserie. We got an Evel Knievel from a customer from Worcester who wanted me to restore his. You know people are going to hate you right now because you're doing the biggest tease in the world. I'm looking at three play fields, two real nice ones. One, I don't know what's been done to that yet, if anything. Sandpaper. Sandpaper's been done. That's the CPR one over there? Yep.
    35:31
    We'll talk about that in a minute. Go ahead. Sorry. But there's no game to put them in. No. Right. They're going to be pissed. I know. It's great. It's a big tease. Oh, God. What? It's coming. Yeah, so is Christmas. So what I did is I... He had a crappy Evil Knievel that he wanted to make really nice. Yeah, that's burned out. Burned out. Even Maureen's touch-up skills, it would look okay, but it still wouldn't look perfect. It's like, no, it's not going to work out.
    36:00
    This is an original. Yep, and so then I have an Evil Knievel that's an original that's in nice shape, and then I Magic Erasure the crap out of it, Novus II the crap out of it, and then Maureen's going to do... It's in pretty nice shape already. Do a little touch-up on it, and then put a playful protector on it. That's going to go to the customer. You have to. That's going to go to the customer instead of his burnt-out Evil Knievel. Then I'm taking my Evil Knievel, which this is going to be mine, until I find the CPR, all my components from the Evil Knievel, a nice playthrough. Can you buy a CPR anymore?
    36:29
    Not as easy. I bought that one a while ago. You can still buy them, but you've got to hit them at the right spot. Oh, did they change the process? Yes. Oh, yeah. Now it's more like hit it while it's there, or it's gone for a while. so you gotta be Johnny on the spot so I bought these before being Johnny on the spot they were available, boom, I think I bought two of them so I'm gonna give the customer a nice original with a playfield protector touched up, beautiful and I'm gonna make mine from that into a CPR one that's gonna be like over the top you know so how many episodes are we gonna have to wait until we see this cause the Rolling Stones took like two years no, I'm on a better pace these days So Rolling Stone is going to be out of here shortly. Evil Cleaver, I'm hoping to be done by this by the end of February.
    37:14
    You know, a couple weeks. Yeah. Because, you know what I already did to the play field that way, the really bad play field? I've already spent three days straight going through all the components. Notice the drop targets are kind of white there. Do you see them? Yes. Because they're all brand new. Everything in the back of the play field is totally rebuilt. All I can do is swap it over to this one, and it's done. because I rebuild them on the bad play field go to the new it's roached well that brings up the question and I probably already know the answer this was a very popular game oh it's a great game no but I'm saying this was a very popular game in the arcade certainly so my guess is there are a few if any really nice play fields that made it through even yours you have where and the e and the k but it's right in front of the slingshot so that makes sense i'm looking at the other game not so much on that one um but more down the middle because you're shooting the flippers right up the number one across all those uh light bezels exactly that's why the bonus area gets all messed up and there's a lot of light on this game there's a lot of bezels You know what happens a lot on these games with a kick out So it's like Mata Hari, Evil Knievel They have a kick out in the top center And here's the thing that the original has Wait I'm missing Alright see the top saucer kick out Yes It's a spot super Notice how it's like tapered on the original Tapered on the original but you go to the CPR Yeah it's really steep It's not quite as tapered Do you have to router that out? It's like a tight bung hole and I'm saying bunghole I'm saying more in the old yes we don't know where our listeners are from I'm old I'm not allowed to say that but you're using all these old timey is the reason why I have a year 1900 dictionary I use all the time I thought you were going to say something else I have to get my bell my inappropriate bell I need the bell but I don't need it right now though I have a 1900 dictionary that has like really great terms and real definitions versus you Google it, the same term, it's totally different. So I'm going to go with the 1900 version because that was when there was really less nonsense going on. Anyway, George.
    39:44
    Thoughts, questions, comments? I know it's time, but I'm looking at the CPR play field and that play field is bold. It is bold. Yes, it is bold.
    39:58
    Now... Part of me likes the original better. Well, when I think of Evil Knievel, the man standing and doing an interview, he was not in this pristine white jumpsuit. It looked like, hey, dude, I've been doing some stuff, okay? I'm not just putting this on for the first time. And I look at the new play field, and I'm not, it looks beautiful. that's and i look at the old the original one and it just looks like it's vintage it's got a little bit more it's got less gloss it just looks period correct it doesn't it does where that looks like it does it's true this looks a little more relaxing oh no let's do the john man even though you know john madden is right i do yes okay boom you know that was his thing right no i don't but he was like the original broadcaster when oh it sounds familiar boom or like emerald lagasse bam same thing okay boom and bam oh god are we dumb how about bam bam like bam bam oh i know george speaking of two is that two episodes how long are you gonna go with this well the two episodes well we have the three kenevils three Evel Knievels you know what and he put dare and dare double that guy I'll tell you what but I will say I agree I actually I have some fondness for this nice orangey red over here in the original and a little more like super red that's like pumped up that game's roached that's roached but that's nice that can be done though the first thing you look at forget about the graphics look at the wood that tells you everything you need to know Just you know where there no graphics It just looks like it been somewhere It's been somewhere, yeah. Yes, it has. Right? I mean, and look at the new white wood, well, you know, the new wood over there. Not the same thing, but look, that looks like it just came out of an Ikea. But see, in here, and this one, the nice one I restored over here, I kind of cleaned up, that wood, it actually would be the same color as that, but it has the urethane on it which makes it kind of yellowed over time. In that time frame, they used yellowed stuff. Like, look at this. That's original.
    42:17
    See, that would be like this. Look at that and that. It's the same. Under the apron on the old Evel Knievel versus the CPR under the apron is the same. The same color wood because no sunshine hit it.
    42:30
    It's going to be nice, but we're done with the teas. We can't go anymore. Look at the yellow. The yellow is different, too. Yeah, it is different. It's more of a mustard. That's definitely, the newer is mustard. Yeah, and that's more like yellow, like lemon. That's more French's, and that's more... Golden's. Golden's? School bus. Spicy brown. No, that's school bus. That's French's. You know, I kind of like the original better. I do. I like the color better. Look, if you've got a Roach game, get it. the new playfield's where it's at, but it's not. Again, it's Resto. What to do, George, what to do? Now I'm in a quandary. You have to hear us talk about Resto Mod, because that's really what that is. Oh, you know what? I forgot, too.
    43:15
    I've got two more twos for you, besides Evil. We'll leave Evil for a while. Evil's going to Evil, so let him Evil out. But Dolly Parton went to a customer with the Roger Little Pitbull, whatever it was. No, what's the Punch in the Face dog? Bulldog, yeah. Three of them. and went down low. Well, no, those are two different things. Bulldog. They both have punched in the face. What do you mean a pug? Bulldog has the teeth going like this. Pug looks like you took a plank and smacked him in the face. Yeah, smack in the face dog. Pug. Pug, okay.
    43:47
    Very friendly, but very kind of just like... Needy. Needy is a word. They are very needy. Yes, they are. Oh, no, they want to be the center of attention. No wonder why. Okay, now I get it. I never owned one. I've been around enough of them now. We visited friends in North Carolina a number of years back. And that, some people would call it, I was calling it annoying because I was up early. That dog wanted it. I'm like, will you just leave me alone? Go over and lay in your bed. Go home, doggie. I'm like, I'm not your owner, okay?
    44:26
    Yeah, that's what this one was like. Right. That's where they are. But that was actually, the owner had two Dolly Partons. He wants to restore both of them. One's going down to his vacation house in Martha's Vineyard. Oh, no, no. And one going out west. I'm looking at the rolling stones. Dolly and Dolly. It's not that crappy paint job again. Where? On Dolly Parton? Yeah, it's the same colors. I think you're right. They bought a lot of that crap, didn't they? Wow. And speaking of that. Who? Notice the rolling stones. Look at the touch of the cabinet. Look how nice that looks. There are more archivists than us, but I'm going to lay this question out there. Yes. I want to know who was the person that made that pink decision. Not on one game, not on two games, but now three games. Are we missing anything? Are you sure Dolly Parton had this? Are you sure? Yeah, that pink and purple. Or is it blue? No, I don't think it's this one. No, you've got to look it up. I don't think so. I think just Future Spar in this game. Or some people call it Future Spew. I don't know. I had the game. I never heard that.
    45:30
    I had the game years ago, and I restored it. I played nice, but I sold it to a buddy out in Oregon. Yeah. I hate when it does that. Oh, what's it doing? I am the movie. Computer problems. It goes to the movie set. Movie. I don't want the movie set. That's the boring part. You want to go to the fun pinball part, of course. Right, but that's... Never mind. Dolly Parton. They come in two. They come in pairs. So he has a pair of them. A pair is four or two. Penny, look at it. Stop. Stop, stop, stop. 78. Here we go.
    46:06
    Yeah. Let's see. What does the cat look like? Where's the cat? That's the collar. No, it's blue in it. There's no blue in this one.
    46:14
    It's kind of close. It is kind of close. George is right. Okay, so the guy didn't mix the paint correctly. All right, it's pretty darn close. George, you're right on this one. I think Georgie wins on the one. And they got the same... And the blue speck in it. That must have been the... Yeah. It's more blue in the brochure, but... I think so. George is correct. It's bad. But that was early. Dolly was early. But they're all in that time. It's like... But I think, you know, Dolly was first. Who made... Future Spar or Dolly? What's first? I think that's first, right? Dolly's got to be first. She's the first with inline drop targets. You're going to make me do all this. Wait, is she the first inline... Look at the speck.
    46:48
    Stop. Get in there. I should have done George. Okay. 7,350 units, October 6th, 1978. Now, what do you want to know? I want to know what was the first game with inline drops, because either this or Future Spa, I'm pretty sure.
    47:07
    They patented it. Paragon was later. Doesn't say anything about it. So there's another question. Wait, what about inline drops? If you check on the thing. It's going to go to drop targets. Are you sure? I'll click it. It's not in my drops. Sorry.
    47:28
    We were doing good. I said fire truck. Yeah, they had a run on that paint. That must have been the paint color of that time frame. So, Mick, which we're going to play in a minute, that was 80. Your class of 80. Do you know Future Spy? Or are you just going to guess? 79. So, one, two, three. Hmm.
    47:58
    One a year. They're all the same color. I mean, give or take. That blue, add a little bit of something else, and it's that color. I just don't know why. And you know they didn't give a... You know if the guy makes the paint and goes, Hey, that paint's off a little bit. Ah, keep it going. That's exactly right. It's already done. You know what? That's money sitting right there. Close enough. It's close enough. GE. Yeah. Good enough. Money's sitting there. You're going to throw it out? No, put it in the game. Yeah, but the other people, they want a nice Union Jack with the red, blue, and the white. Nah, screw them. Put the freaking pink and blue on there. I need to clarify that from the Rolling Stone show. When I said it should be three colors, red for the lips, obviously the white, which would be the background and then the black for the black ground accent and under the teeth those are the three colors so now we're coming to the those there are two different play fields i i'm not coming back to it we're going to cut this out but those are two different color yellows entirely you know george welcome to cpr you know i i agree i could actually uh so i could actually get this restored by Bill Davis looking really darn nice as a nice original or put that in my game. That's what I would do. I would give it to Bill only because I know he does, he's got to do some airbrushing. He does. And that's the difference. It's hard. I've tried. I did it with one of my games but just solid colors. I can't match and that's having the technique can be learned it takes experience to learn color matching that's where the money is I'm just trying to I'm looking at both of them like which one would I like though it's two different things I know if you want a resto mod it's perfect though no but if you want a resto mod you're putting the CPR in you're buying the new plastics you're having somebody do a brand i don't mean a used cabinet i mean a brand new cabinet which you can buy and then having somebody spray it and doing you know doing the whole nine suet that's i don't have to preach to the choir you know that's even probably above what you've done with some of your games and it's costly and timely here's something george i just thought of something i could go not a or b but go see, here's an option. What if I took my original playfield that I cleaned up made nice, took his junk playfield, cleaned that up the best I could make nice, send both those playfields to Bill Davis, he makes them both nice, and then I keep that for whatever. The CPR. There's a good and a bad on the worst of the three.
    50:58
    You need somebody who can match all the fonts for the bonus. The good thing is... Go ahead. What's the good thing, George? That the other play field, all that is intact so it can be used as a stencil.
    51:15
    So all this information can be transferred to that. That's the good thing. So, George, this is the feel-around part of our show. Uh-oh. Part of our show and tell. So, let's go feel the bunghole on the old... I am not participating in your little folly. I'm not even... Folks, if there was a camera on me, you just saw me take a step back away from Dave and the playfield on the rotisserie. I am not... I can see it visually. I do not need... George, understand, I am a doctor. Alright, so, you know.
    52:03
    Nothing I haven't seen before. You better be treading very, very carefully because you should never have just said what you said.
    52:15
    That joke is going to come back to haunt you. Haunt you. Because I am never going to call it what it should be called. What do you think it's going to be renamed? I don't know. I'm looking for suggestions. I have one right off. Dr. Dave's bunghole. No, I don't know about that one. I'd say a proctologist. No, but I'm not even talking proctologist. I'm talking playfield bungholes, not anatomy. Because this bunghole here. Calling Dr. Fine. See? Calling Dr. Fine. Nice taper there. Did you ever watch that? Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine.
    52:50
    Well, you know, I'm actually here to talk. No. No, it's not. It's smooth, and this one's a little more. It's not. But that's an easy... I could actually send this to Bill. He could run this out too for me. He could make it perfect. Somebody who... Well, no. Your friend John Day, who seems to have woodworking skills, could probably help you with that as well. But then who's going to clear it, though? I've got to send it to Bill anyway to clear it. Right, well... No, you could probably spot clear that because of where it is. You could just make a nice mask for around that and just spray that and not get it on any of the paint.
    53:30
    I noticed that when I had... But I wouldn't do anything until I played the game. Because you don't know.
    53:38
    Don't know how that's going to go. Right. I have played one of these before. A CBR one. The ball just seems to kind of go... It just plops in. Versus this game here, it's more like... Roundy, roundy. You're already at step two. I like the roundy, roundy. I like the whole little mystery going on. It might not be going there for sure. We don't know. That one kind of locks it in. the CPR. How much longer are you going to drag this out? Which part? We keep talking about Evil Conevil. Oh, when's it going to be good to go? No, no, I mean, when are you going to stop recording and when are we going to do the next step? Oh, next step, yeah, yeah. All right, next step. We're going to do, yeah, okay, we can stop this.
    54:25
    To release me from the longest afternoon I've rearranged parts of my living room The time is hard to kill since I met you I'm looking at the cars that drive on by While spring is making promises outside Red cars are quite rare, I realize Then I wonder which color you would like Seven little numbers, baby, we could be a star Seven little numbers, baby, I know yours by heart Whoa, all the pretty things that we could be Whoa, I feel you in every heartbeat Whoa, revel in a dream that could come true These numbers could be lucky for you