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Ep 125: Fixing the rumors with David Fix

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 5m·analyzed·Dec 5, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

David Fix clarifies American Pinball's roadmap, production achievements, and addresses market rumors.

Summary

David Fix, operations leader at American Pinball, appears on Loser Kid Pinball Podcast to address rumors about the company's future game pipeline, production capacity, and market positioning. He clarifies that American Pinball is mixing licensed and unlicensed titles (next game unlicensed, followed by sequels and licenses), achieving record production numbers (~300 units in 2023), and maintaining a lean team approach. He discusses Galactic Tank Force's quality issues (shooter lane switch threadlock problem), pricing strategy in a buyer's market, and the company's philosophy on limited editions.

Key Claims

  • American Pinball's next game is unlicensed, followed by a follow-up game, then two licensed games

    high confidence · David Fix directly states: 'the next game we have coming out is an original title. It is not licensed. The game after that—let's just say it's a follow-up game. And then after that is a license, and the game after that is a license.'

  • American Pinball hit 300 machine production units in 2023, the most in company history

    high confidence · David Fix: '300 gets us to the most amount of machines that American Pinball has ever made to date in one year.' He clarifies this is a milestone marker, aiming for 15-20 units per day production rate.

  • Galactic Tank Force signature edition is limited to 200 units total with expected completion before Christmas 2023

    high confidence · David Fix: 'Right now we are currently in production of the signature version of Galactic Tank Force. We're producing all 200 of them, and we will have them done before Christmas.'

  • Galactic Tank Force has a quality issue where missing balls is caused by loose shooter lane switches due to missing threadlock

    high confidence · David Fix discovered the problem at IFPA: 'One of the things we found out just recently was the team wasn't putting thread lock on the shooter lane switch... the shooter lane switch is loose, coming walking against the side, and that's why the game thinks the ball's sitting there.'

  • Barry Alford (designer) has passed away; his game is complete and being finalized in production

    high confidence · David Fix: 'the next game is Barry Alford's last game. So, you know, and Barry was a great guy. We were so excited to have him join us, lose him so quickly after his first game was final to him.'

  • American Pinball is aiming for a two-games-per-year release schedule going forward

    high confidence · David Fix: 'We've been trying to get to the two-games-a-year model... we will definitely have folks next year in 2024.'

  • Legends of Valhalla limited edition had a Black Friday promotion: $400 discount bringing MSRP to $7,995, with fewer than 50 units remaining

Notable Quotes

  • “the next game we have coming out is an original title. It is not licensed. The game after that—let's just say it's a follow-up game. And then after that is a license, and the game after that is a license.”

    David Fix @ ~10:00 — Directly addresses pipeline rumors and clarifies American Pinball's strategy of mixing licensed and unlicensed content

  • “300 gets us to the most amount of machines that American Pinball has ever made to date in one year.”

    David Fix @ ~22:30 — Confirms record production milestone; 300 is a motivational target, not actual unit count claim

  • “Some keyboard commandos will say it's terrible, but the people who are buying it love it.”

    David Fix @ ~17:00 — Addresses online criticism of Galactic Tank Force while claiming strong customer satisfaction

  • “We have two animators, one art director, Jack Hager, which you guys had on the show. Then we hire in people like Christopher Franchi and other artists... Guys, I mean, if you think about it, I've never seen a pinball company smaller.”

    David Fix @ ~30:00 — Describes lean team structure as competitive advantage for weathering delays and market fluctuations

  • “I'm not saying anything about that, but... you're pointing out what we have said before. Other companies—I'm not going to pick on one company, but JJP did it also... this is not new.”

    David Fix @ ~65:00 — Acknowledges industry-wide practice of releasing multiple limited editions; implies limited edition market saturation concern

  • “I think you're pointing out what we have said before... do people feel like they're getting something exclusive?”

    David Fix @ ~64:30 — Reveals awareness of customer perception issue regarding 'true' limited editions vs. marketing variants

  • “these are pinball machines. It's not on the gold standard. But I see the market really is—it's a buyer's market right now.”

    David Fix @ ~68:00 — Frames current market conditions as favorable to consumers; acknowledges machines are not investment assets

Entities

David FixpersonAmerican PinballcompanyGalactic Tank ForcegameFlippin' Out PinballcompanyBarry AlfordpersonLegends of ValhallagameJersey Jack Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: American Pinball achieving record production (300 unit milestone in 2023); operating two independent manufacturing lines; targeting 15-20 units/day production rate

    high · David Fix: '300 gets us to the most amount of machines that American Pinball has ever made to date in one year... we're aiming for 15 to 20 a day, that's a good number for us'

  • ?

    community_signal: American Pinball maintaining lean team structure allows weather manufacturing delays and market volatility without excessive payroll burden; positioned as competitive advantage vs. larger manufacturers

    medium · David Fix: 'you gotta remember... you don't have 100, 200, 300 people on the payroll... you can weather a delay' (implied by Josh); 'American is a very small office' with ~10 core staff

  • ?

    product_concern: Oktoberfest playfield design concern: left-side ski-jump ramp historically difficult to hit; attributed to expo low-power conditions; fix involves dialing up flipper coil power or checking coil stop adjustment

    medium · David Fix: 'we dial up the one flipper... and it goes right up that ramp' (power-dependent issue); coil stop potential adjustment required

  • ?

    design_philosophy: American Pinball employing playtesting with trusted advisors and competitive players near whitewood completion to gather feedback before final production

    medium · David Fix: 'when we get close to the final whitewood, we'll bring in some of our trusted advisors—some pinball players—and we'll let them just beat on a whitewood and give us their feedback'

  • $

    market_signal: Current pinball market is buyer's market with significant downward pricing pressure; used machines available across manufacturers at lower prices than prior year

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.196

0:00
thanks for tuning in to loser kid pinball podcast i bet you didn't think we'd be back so soon but it's a crazy it's been a crazy weekend we're on episode 125 i am josh rupe with me my co-host as always scott larson and scott we're going to be talking we're going to be talking some american shenanigans today but if you're going to get your american game where are you going to get it from I will call Zach and Nicole many at flipping out pinball. They will always take care of you. They, I told you they, they just helped out my friend who just bought us first pinball machine. So if you are looking for that galactic tank force, or you're looking to get anything else, just contact them. They'll be able to help you out. Definitely. And their customer service is amazing. I like, I know Zach has taken parts off of his own personal game. Well, Greg bone took his, the scoop sensor from rush. i still need to find it because it's in a box but uh no no i i put it on my game but the dysfunctional one i was supposed to send back to him and he yeah way to go but yeah it's hey we went through a renovation you know how it is but yes uh they're great flipping out pinball okay before we get to our guests i want to just make a quick just 30 second disclaimer from our last episode 124 we were talking about rumors and how they get leaked into the hobby uh and and our weird fascination with like we can't be happy with the present and now my disclaimer is though is i just want to uh point one thing out we did use a nap article as our example in in our discussion of that and uh it was never meant for malice or attack or or to slight jason jason's a great guy we appreciate what he does with nap arcade and uh love his journalistic approach so just wanted to put that out there because uh there was some misconceptions there but i just wanted to clear that all up we love jason love what he's doing we appreciate everything that he covers and it was a wonderful article if you haven't checked it out as the first details on uh ellen's next game or something about back from february and it was very in-depth so anywho before well now now move on and now for something completely different scott give us our give our introduction for our guests okay so we have someone who's been involved in the industry for such a long time and including being one of the people who's putting on Expo, and Expo 40 is coming up. He also is involved with American Pinball, and so we have the David Fix. If you've been at Expo, you certainly see him because he has a very distinctive mustache, and he has his very distinctive hat on. He doesn't have it on today, though. I'm not really sure why he didn't wear it for the episode, but anyway, David, how are you doing? I'm doing really good. and the best thing is because it's a podcast I don't have to put a hat on so you don't have to worry about seeing it true I guess it's true we do show it on YouTube though oh okay well there you go now I know why everybody you can put your shirt back on yeah but we're showing from the waist up you don't have to worry about it that's true well not only that now I answer all the questions that the man does have hair I know Jack Connery is always asking I've never seen David without a hat oh there you go yes So I don't. So that's why I always wear my hat. Not much up there anymore. I've been pulling it out, but you know, that's okay.

high confidence · David Fix: 'we're going to give an incentive. For the next two weeks, we're changing the MSRP, which gives a full discount to $7,995... Do I have less than 50? Yes.'

  • The pinball market is currently a buyer's market with used game prices declining year-over-year

    high confidence · Josh Roop observation confirmed by David Fix: machines available across manufacturers (Stern, American Pinball, JJP) with lower pricing than prior year

    • Stern Pinballcompany
    Christopher Franchiperson
    Jack Hagerperson
    Ryanperson
    Dennisperson
    Zofiaperson
    Scott Larsonperson
    Josh Roopperson
    Riot Pinballcompany
    Houdinigame
    Hot Wheelsgame
    Oktoberfestgame
    Pinball Expoevent

    high · David Fix and Josh Roop discussion of used market pricing declines; David Fix: 'I see the market really is—it's a buyer's market right now. It really is a buyer's market.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Barry Alford (designer) deceased; his game completing production at American Pinball; represents loss of external designer talent and complicates pipeline management

    high · David Fix: 'Barry was a great guy. We were so excited to have him join us, lose him so quickly after his first game was final to him.'

  • $

    market_signal: American Pinball maintaining competitive pricing ($7,395 baseline for most titles) compared to inflation; Legends of Valhalla limited edition discounted to $7,995 for Black Friday promotion with under 50 units remaining

    high · David Fix: Black Friday promotion bringing LE to $7,995; compared to 1999 Revenge from Mars at $3,500 (=$6,500 in 2023 dollars)

  • ?

    product_concern: Galactic Tank Force experiencing systemic shooter lane switch failures due to missing threadlock on fasteners; discovered during in-field testing at IFPA

    high · David Fix: 'One of the things we found out just recently was the team wasn't putting thread lock on the shooter lane switch... the shooter lane switch is loose, coming walking against the side, and that's why the game thinks the ball's sitting there'

  • ?

    product_strategy: American Pinball confirmed pipeline: next title unlicensed, follow-up game (Barry Alford's final design), then two consecutive licensed titles; targeting two-games-per-year schedule

    high · David Fix: 'the next game we have coming out is an original title. It is not licensed. The game after that—let's just say it's a follow-up game. And then after that is a license, and the game after that is a license.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Previous rumors about American Pinball pursuing three consecutive unlicensed games addressed and denied; actual pipeline mixes licensed and unlicensed content

    high · David Fix: 'No, that's not true. So we are doing some unlicensed titles... things get misconstrued. People hear things.'

  • ?

    business_signal: Industry-wide limited edition strategy saturation: multiple manufacturers releasing numerous LE variants (JJP Hobbit editions, multiple Elvira LE versions); raising questions about exclusivity perception

    high · David Fix: 'When The Hobbit came out, they had the standard edition, the limited edition, then they had the Smaug edition, and then they had the Black Arrow edition... do people feel like they're getting something exclusive?'

    • 3:26
    So David, we wanted to have you on because we've been hearing some rumors and it sounds like you got to set the record straight. So let's talk about some of these, I guess the first one we've been hearing a lot of is you're kind of still geared towards unlicensed theme over at least the next three titles. Is that true?
    3:43
    No, that's not true. So we are doing some unlicensed titles. Okay. And, you know, like we talked about rumors yesterday. Things get misconstrued. People hear things, you know. And unfortunately, some people maybe haven't know all the things because we keep a very tight-knit thing at American. So, yes, the next game we have coming out is a original title. It is not licensed. Okay. The game after that, let's just say it's a follow-up game. Okay. And then after that is a license, and the game after that is a license. Okay. So you're basically mixing this up. It's trying to find that balance because people are always asking for original titles. whether now the the irony is a lot of times people ask for them and then they may or may not be interested in that theme which i find interesting because they're the ones who are asking for the original stuff but you're trying to appease both crowds it seems like yeah well listen i mean for the longest time williams had a beautiful williams valley had a beautiful mix in the industry where they had licensed and unlicensed titles right and uh you know some people love some of the unlicensed titles listen some of the unlicensed titles from williams became licensed right look at mortal combat for crying out loud um but you know that's very easy um and let the team be creative that's the other thing you know i mean sometimes when you're dealing with a licensor you are in this you know this this little world this little globe and god forbid for you to step out of that globe okay so you get you get shot down pretty easy um but for the most part we love doing unlicensed but we do like we've done hot wheels and uh we have done hot wheels in the past and we were probably doing you know we got other licenses coming so we're excited about it nice and i think that's kind of refreshing to hear as well as because we've always been i don't know i we've always talked about licenses king and whatnot and so uh i don't know like you said aiming for that mixture like bally williams of doing unlicensed and licenses, I think it's a great strategy. It seems like you're leaning a little bit heavier toward licensing in the future, though, because if you look at your history, you start with Houdini, and then you move to Oktoberfest. Then you have Hot Wheels, which was your first license theme. And then you have Legends of Valhalla, which was Scott's homebrew that turned into a very functional game. I actually liked, of all the games I played at that expo, I, um, legends was pretty high on my list because it was a very simple approach, but it was still visually very cool. Um, and then, uh, your, your latest one, galactic tank force. So how's galactic tank force doing what you, you talked about, uh, now there's this special one that has like the light up tracks and, and everything, everything like that. When you fold it down, it looks like a tank. So how, uh, how's it doing? and what's your vision for it in the future?
    7:01
    Well, Galactic Tank Force has been, you know, to some, you know, some keyboard commandos will say it's terrible, but the people who are buying it love it. So, and most of the people who play it become a fan of it very fast. Right now, we are currently in the production of the signature version of Galactic Tank Force. We're producing all 200 of them. and we will have them done before Christmas. So anybody who ordered a Galactic Tank Force signature, which is the special one with the 3D back glass, it's the better trim, the whole painted toys, all the extra goodies. This is your top of the line. This is your high-end model. All bells and whistles. Nothing holding us back. That will be ready as soon as you order it from your distributors. You want one? Call Zach and Nicole at Flippin' Out.
    8:01
    They'll get you in touch with – they'll get it taken care of for you right away. Nice. One question I have because it sounds like you guys are pretty far out on what you have an idea of making.
    8:14
    I know in the past, you know, between Houdini and Oktoberfest and Hot Wheels, it was about roughly a year on the release time. But we're seeing a little bit more of a delay between tiles now. Are you guys going to try to tighten that up? Because it seems like four titles, that's pretty far out. So are you going to be going back to more of the year or more of the 18 months where you've been sticking at? Well, we've been trying to get to the two games a year model. And we are getting – we've been – the next two games were being built and designed in parallel. Okay? So, in fact, one jumped in front of the other one for a while and jumped back. And, you know, it's kind of that thing. So we will definitely have folks next year in 2024.
    9:00
    The cool thing about this is that we continue to develop the team, right? When we first started, and this is kind of funny if you think about it, December 7th, literally three days from now, I will have been at American Pinball for three years.
    9:18
    I can't believe it's three years already. But when I walked through the door, we had, you know, we just let go of the designer. We didn't have anybody. The front office was kind of empty. We brought in Scott's game, Legends of Valhalla, and we turned around and had it out in 10 months. Right. So we were able to move that along. And then we brought out Galactic Tank Force, which had some delays. But, again, remember, it has over 5,000 video clips in a pinball machine. And it is the most packed visual game that we've ever done, especially on the screen. Picture-in-picture, animations, we just threw everything in it. We have two full-time animators on this game. Granted, it's not like my competitors who probably have like 20 animators working on all their games. But we've been really pushing this, right? So then with the team, we brought in Ryan over a year ago. And he's just now, his whitewood is flipping on his game. And, you know, Dennis has been working on his. And then we have the next game, which Dennis was working on to help because the next game is Barry Alford's last game.
    10:40
    So, you know, and Barry was a great guy. We were so excited to have him join us, lose him so quickly after his first game was final, you know, to him. And then we had to build up the whitewood. But there were some small adjustments and some changes. And Dennis jumped in and Ryan jumped in and we kind of helped put Barry's game together. So everything on this game, right, is a family, right? We're all there trying very hard because we're not a big group. American is a very small office. We have two animators, one art director.
    11:17
    Jack Hager, which we had on the show. Which you guys had on the show, right? And then we hire in people like Chris Franchi and other artists. And then we have Casey Butler and Joe Schober, who are our programmers, with my good friend Steve Bowden, the rule master. and then we just have Dennis and Ryan as designers and Zofia as my mechanical engineer. Okay. Guys. Now. I mean, if you think about it, I've never seen a pinball company smaller.
    11:55
    Well, it's probably true. And let's get something else out of the way. This makes it able for you to absorb a possible delay in manufacturing because you don't have 100, 200, 300 people on the payroll.
    12:12
    And so if you need to take time to make something right or get products in or shipment, then you can weather a delay is what I'm saying. So if you don't put out a machine in six months, you can still, like it's still sustainable because you're not paying so many people just to keep spinning their wheels. true but you gotta remember the factory is a monster right listen the factory is a monster always needs to be fed right and if the factory is a monster for me just imagine what it's like for people like my competitors right uh they're pumping out tons of machines and there's reasons for that right so you're right but go ahead that was another rumor that kind of uh spewed out because you did have the 300 poster up in your assembly line. And I think there were some people who misinterpreted the meaning of that. So you want to go into that?
    13:18
    It's official. We got 300, the Spartan story coming from American Pinball, right? No, that's not. That was Legends of Valhalla. Very good, Scott. Very good. No, no. Spartan's 300, that is not the next title. And here's the gist of it. The 300 was a milestone for the company, and we're right on target for it, so I'm happy for the team. 300 gets us to the most amount of machines that American Pinball has ever made to date in one year. so that was the goal we we put out the gauntlet for the production team we we said to him listen we hit 300 by december of this time in december we have now just hit the highest number that this little factory has ever made and and then some you know so we we continue to strive now granted i'm not going to go into production numbers and everybody's going to be like oh they made 300 games no we we made a lot of games this year and that 300 is actually a very nice number think about it we in one year we ended up we started we had on the on the line back in january legends of valhalla and octoberfest then we went over and did the hot wheels and then galactic so we hit all four of those and now we're finishing with houdini and galactic so in one year we've had all the machines on the line so we you know it's been very good for us and so you have two lines is what you're saying then that's independent lines yep okay and and a quick calculation means that you're putting out a game roughly one a day if your goal is to is is 300 and yeah yeah yeah i i see what you're saying no no no no My goal is more like if we get into 15 to 20 a day, that's a good number for us.
    15:31
    So we do have striving marks that we're trying to hit. Okay. Go ahead. It was an inspirational thing to motivate employees and companies. That sounds about right. And also it was during Halloween. So we thought we'd keep it a little, you know, no do or die. There's only, and there is no try. That kind of thing. We're just like, do it, you know, that kind of thing. But we were staying with the holiday spirit too. So, but everybody's been, you know, kicking butt and taking names and that factory turning out the machines, which we're very happy about. Okay. Here's the one question. I'm going to ask it before Josh does. Did you dress up like Leonidas for Halloween? No. Oh. No. That was an opportunity missed Definitely Yeah No but I did have two employees dress up as me So there you go
    16:26
    I did see the picture. I think I saw that picture. It was pretty funny. Yeah. So there you go. And they all said, would the real Dave Fix stand for it? I said, I'll sign a check. And they said, well, we'll take that one.
    16:40
    Oh, that's great. Oh, yeah. but we've been we've been we've been doing very well for a company this year and i'm very proud of the team and like i said we're a small little family but we're we're doing what we can do you know we're we're the little guy and we're doing some good numbers and galactic tank force is doing very well um there's been some small little you know hitches with the very beginning but we've worked through those and then there was a new one that we just kind of found out just out of the blue which we're working on right now and i'm just going to throw this out there if any of you guys have been having problems with your galactic tank force and it kind of is like missing the ball take a look at the shooter lane switch just it's kind of stupid um you know we have you know people coming and going and there's been some sometimes we miss a step um one of the things that we found out uh late just recently was um the team wasn't putting uh thread lock on the shoot a lane switch oh that's actually happened to other companies yeah yeah it's the the blue yeah the the blue lock type yeah yeah what happens is is um i found it at iepa you know we hit this game it was working beautifully and then the next day it was causing me all kinds of grief like what the heck is going out with this thing so i open it up i'm looking at it now granted i i've you know done my fair share of fixing and repairing machines over there and sure enough that it doesn't take me to be a rocket scientist to go oh look the shooter lane switches like comes walking against the side and it's it that's why the game thinks the ball's sitting there but if it isn't that reach out to our service department we will take care of it now they're they're we are you know like i said We're a small group. We are trying as hard as we can to, you know, we're fighting Goliath. You know, I don't have the budgets that I'd love to have at other companies, but we're doing really well.
    18:41
    One thing you brought up was, sadly, Barry passed away too soon. But that does leave a vacancy for designers. Are you guys going to be looking for more designers, or is it pretty much we're going to kind of take on the workload we have right now and we'll see about the future? Pretty much. Well, so let me touch upon this because I've had some people ask the question, is Riot Pinball, Scott and Frank, are they done? Are we not going to see another pin from them? I'm going to say no. We talked about it. They are working on a pin right now. So I have Barry's game. I have Dennis working on a game. After I have Ryan working on his game and I got Scott and Frank working on a game. And then Dennis is already working on a game after that. So we have different games in development stages. So we do have stuff that we continue to work on. We're not slouches, right? So we do have, and I continue to open the door for certain, you know, people that might do a homebrew that is just knock my socks off. And, you know, we'll go from there. Okay, I'm going to follow up on that because you talked about that. The American Dream, if I remember correctly. Yep. The American Dream. And it's basically a gauntlet that you throw out there that says, hey, bring us a design. And if it looks like you got potential, kid, we may be able to find a spot for you in the company. Is that still the case? Yep, it is. And I will tell you that the American Dream winner from two years ago, he's been at our company. and we're working on his title, okay, that kind of thing. We put it in the back burner, but we're kind of keeping that quiet. We also have a contestant that won this year, but we're going to be using maybe not his games, but we're going to use him in some of the aspects of one of our games coming forward. So we continue to look at people. So he can be involved, he or she can be involved in developing the pinball machine because there are lots of areas that you can help out with, not necessarily just bringing a design because it takes a lot more of a team to bring a pinball machine to fruition than just a designer. Absolutely. And I don't mean to disparage designers. I'm just saying that there's more involved. And you're not disparaging designers. designers are the guys who will first tell you that it's the rest of the team that help out to make that game. You know, they sit there and they look at it and they play with it and they come up with it and they say, how is this? You know, Ryan will pull me in or Dennis will pull me in and say, hey, play, shoot this. What do you think? I'll be like, well, this looks a little, you know, this is over here, that's over there, and I'll make a suggestion. Just throw it out there, you know. and then they'll say well it's not a bad idea and then about you know a day or two go by and then they go you know you're not the only one that suggested it you shoot this something and um you know and it's and it's and it's great and we've we've done that also when we get close to um the final whitewood we'll bring in some of our um how do i say this uh trusted advisors some pinball players and we'll let them just beat on a white wood and then give us their you know when we're pretty close and give us their feedback and then they kind of give us a few I mean this is how we develop right this is I mean gone are the days me slipping a pinball machine out you know all done in a Chuck E. Cheese somewhere and sitting back and watching the kids play it and go what you think what you think kid you know I mean it wouldn't happen there are no test locations anymore No test locations whatsoever for pinball. And trust me, there's a lamplighter in Palatine, which was Stern's old test location.
    22:42
    We've been up there for lunch. There's nothing there. There's other test locations around. So the one thing I will say is that I do use Interium as a test location. Now, how do I use it as a test location? I test new aspects of the game that you don't see that's under the hood to see how long it lasts, how well it works, how well it provides. I'm testing power supplies. I'm testing new board systems. I'm testing all kinds of crazy stuff in there. In fact, one of the tests that I had was back in 2001, I had talked to Titan, and I had a couple sets of Titan rubbers sent to me for all the games at Interium, and I ran it for a year on Titan rubber and was pleased with my findings to the point that I gave the call to Titan and said, listen, I'm switching all my games production to Titan rubbers, which is huge. You know, that's, you know, instead of instead of you buying a brand new game and taking all the rubbers off and change them all over the Titan, I already took care of it for you. It's included. Oh, that's good. OK, so, David, I do want to talk about I want to talk about Expo, too. But what else what else do we need to know about American pinball that we are not smart enough to ask?
    24:07
    OK, that's a trick question there. There are many crazy things at American Pinball, and we continue to develop a lot of fun stuff. So there's going to be some stuff that's going to be coming in the horizons that's going to catch people off guard a little bit, which I love doing that every once in a while. So just sit back and wait, and you'll find out. One of the other things is that we did do a special deal for Black Friday for the limited edition of the HALA. We gave an instant $400 discount for anybody who ordered a brand new limited Valhalla while supplies last. Okay. We are running that as of December 4th today until the 15th of December. So if you're interested in a limited edition, and it's a small amount. So what happened was we originally had 500. we got through the full production some customers have canceled some big distributors didn't take their full allotment so I have do I have hundreds no do I have over 50 no do I have less than 50 yes but it's once they're gone they're gone but what I'm doing is I'm going to kind of give an incentive And so for the next two weeks, we're changing the MRP, which gives a full discount to $79.95.
    25:40
    And you can contact all your distributors, anybody who sells American, or you can contact Zach Menne, flipping out here, and he will definitely get you taken care of. And it's ready to ship. They're in stock. So we will probably be shipping them out. So if you wanted to do something new under the tree this year, you could get a Legends of Valhalla with a discount, which you're saving some money. And that's a limited – that comes with a – like a – Okay. I have it up for you so I can just list it off. It has the mirrored back glass. Yes. So on glass. And I actually have one of those back glasses because I won it at your seminar. That's right. Hand-painted Thor's hammer. We have molded hand-painted six-boot shields, Odin's main ramp, molded and hand-painted, molded amber translucent arch behind. And we're talking – this is high-end, gold foil, gold powder coating. So this is everything you'd want in the top-of-the-line version, but you're really not paying top-of-the-line prices compared to what things are going – like what alternative options for a similar machine are going for today. Absolutely. And here's the other thing. American has always given out some really nice machines, right? I mean, look, our Houdini, which had a special power cut, all the toys, all that, that's $73.95. You know, that's a decent price. Oktoberfest also, Hot Wheels, $73.95. So – Okay, no, I do have one follow-up question on Oktoberfest. Go ahead. So when I have played it, that ramp on the left side is really hard to hit. so so is it ramp on the left side what was that which ramp on the left side the one that goes like straight up it's like a ski jump okay that one okay okay so is it uh have you done anything to tweak the design or or the flipper power to make sure now guaranteed i have played it at um at expos and at things like that so i totally understand that the power supply is different at one of those mega shows because a lot of times the consistent complaint with people trying out games at expos are because the power drain is so much with all the games that they are not as flippy as there used to be in a home environment or at a bar environment. Correct. You're talking about at a show. Yes. And to run Pinball Expo, I can tell you, pinball expo we were running the power at 109 110 on occasions um you're talking about so many breakers so many circuits so many everything right um at your home you're running it usually 115 120 so your power you're getting you're fully saturating your power supply um what we have with like uh expos you're not getting that full power now on october fest and if you played it at expo we go through and we just dial up the one flipper because it is the purple flipper it's a purple color normally they're all orange uh i'm sorry not orange orange they're all blue and the the purple one we dial up so we just jump it up too and it goes right up that ramp okay so there's a fix is basically what you're saying there's a david fix fix for the ramp well the reason i ask that question is because when we first came out with that the left upper ramp the one that goes around through the barrel that one was also a problem but we had a fix with that with a special coil stop so if you can't make it you might want to check your coil stop make sure it is correct one if it isn't contact us we'll get you the right one okay so so one thing i want to talk to you because you've been talking about pricing a lot on this episode david and the market if if we look at the used market um there is a lot of pinball machines going for cheaper than they were a year ago i don't think this is unusual you've been in the hobby for a while um where do you think the market is is turning to head with what we're seeing ah that's a that's a question that you know is in every boardroom across every pinball company in the united states and around overseas too yeah we have meetings once a month about this you know is is the pinball going to continue what's the price value where do we see the market going okay and i and i trust me i had an overseas call today um just trying to figure out where we see the pricing okay so the price you know is very much what people are are paying for games however one of the biggest things that i see is the thought is the game really limited sure and and i think you guys will know what i'm talking about when i say that if you remember two years ago there was a special limited version of Elvira. Now this year, there's another special limited version of Elvira. And when it came out, there was a special limited version of Elvira. I'm not saying anything about that, but the, you know, I think you're pointing out, you're pointing out what we have said before and other companies. The last episode we talked about, we talked about this, our other companies.
    31:28
    I, I, and I not to pick on one company. JJP did it also with – when The Hobbit came out, they had the standard edition, the limited edition, then they had the smog edition, and then they had the Black Arrow edition. And so this is not new. However, you're bringing up is – do people feel like they're getting something exclusive? Is that what I'm getting at? Yes.
    31:57
    Yes. And that's kind of the reason that, like, listen, the signature edition of Galactic Tank Force, that's it. 200, we're done. The limited edition, it's done. In fact, going forward, you probably will see other manufacturers, maybe myself, cut back on the limited numbers a little bit. But, you know, you've got to make sure that you don't kill your own market, right? I mean, you know, it's like, you know, I can buy the greatest looking brand new car and then a year later go out and buy the same car. It like okay it not you know it not the it not the I probably gonna get beat up for this but it not the Hellcat edition right You know is it that Dodge Hellcat you know that rare one that they brought out three four years ago No, it's the newer one, but it's still, you know, does it appreciate the value? You know, at the end of the day, it makes you wonder, you know, it makes me, as a collector, remember, like I was telling Josh earlier, I have 150 pins, right? Yeah, that's it. What are you buying them for? Because you enjoy them, right?
    33:40
    If you want to play the stock market or buy gold, go do that. These are pinball machines. It's not on the gold standard.
    33:47
    But I see the market really is – it's a buyer's market right now. It really is a buyer's market. You can go into any of the – you can call Zach Binney up right now and probably buy any of the Stern games that are out there, and he probably has them. You could buy any of the American games. You can buy any of the J.J.P. games. You can buy any of those. I mean, so, you know, it depends on where you want to invest your money. If you're enjoying the game. So, you know, hats off to you.
    34:19
    So one thing, too, we talked about was inflation. And one thing I wanted to point out, too, is when Baldy Williams closed their doors in 1999 and they had Revenge for Mars, they were doing that. I remember in the documentary Tilt, they said that they were asking a lot from their distributors and from the operators that were buying because they had to tack on $500 more for the new operating system they were putting in. And at $3,500 in 1999, today's inflation is $6,500. So you guys are still – it's kind of funny because you think of 1999 and they were operating at a loss on these machines. and obviously the games today have a lot more in them. So how do you battle that perception of, like, you're already overpriced for what you're selling at? Well, let's talk about that for a second. I think, you know, listen, I sit there, I mean, I'm running a pinball company. I can do a calculation in my head pretty quickly of anybody's machines, right? When you're in the industry, you probably could do that. I'm sure the guys at the other companies can look at my game and go, okay, this is what Fix is putting in. It's like, okay, this is what his BOM is. It's just like, you know, we all know.
    35:40
    Bailey Williams, let's talk about that for a minute. Pinball 2000 was groundbreaking. It was earth shattering. It was an amazing game that came out at that time. And hats off to the entire Pinball 2000 staff for pulling off that. And I know you're talking about the $500 increase, which was tacked on to actually Star Wars Episode 1 because they were trying to push the license.
    36:08
    If you ask some people in the industry that know, which I've had that conversation, the license wasn't much more. It wasn't that. It was just them trying to see what the market could sustain. And then when they had lost orders, they were like, you know what, this is not our way. We really want to get into the slot machine business.
    36:31
    You know, casino gambling. Now think about it. WMS at that time has now been sold as part of scientific gaming. You know, it's a completely different, you know, entity. Where are they now, right? In fact, a lot of the WMS people work for me. You know, Zofia Ryan, she worked there. She was on Pinball 2000. She went over to the slot reel division. Jack Hager, he was on this show.
    36:57
    He's working for us now. So there's a lot of people that were there that put their heart and soul into a game, but the corporate environment at that time was like, let's just cash it out. Let's move on to something different.
    37:11
    But you have to think about it. Price of metal is up. Price of wood is up. You have wars heading with Russian Ukraine is going on, what, three years now? This is kind of crazy, right? I feel for the people in Ukraine. Then you have now this whole thing with Palestine and Israel, right? There's another conflict that's not great. This does drive the price of goods and stuff up.
    37:40
    So it's tough, you know, what we used to buy, you know. I look at a bill material from when we made Houdini the first time to now.
    37:52
    It's comparable, but if I looked at a price list, let's say from 1999 to now, it's significantly lower. Your flipper mechs are a lot cheaper. Pot bumpers are a lot cheaper, all that. So, I mean, you can see the price has gone up. But, you know, I think at American, we try to price our games. We pack them to death and give you the best money for the best buck for the – I can't even speak now. The best bang for your buck. There you go. So, you know, we try to make it, you know, that we're not gouging you. Right.
    38:32
    So let's talk about Expo. Sure. So Expo, you have a big anniversary coming up. 40th. So you have the 40th coming up. And if I understand correctly, this time we're also increasing the size. That's correct. The last two expos we were at 60,000 square feet. We're going to 90,000. Just shy of 100,000 square feet in that facility. We're also expanding Expo. Okay, so go on. Tell me more about that. If you haven't Check out the website. But we're starting on Tuesday of Expo this year. Wow. Tuesday, and then Wednesday, then Thursday, then Friday, then Saturday. People think we've lost our mind. I might agree with them. That's a lot. Seminars don't start until Thursday. Okay.
    39:33
    Seminars don't start until Thursday, and neither does the vending hall open until Thursday. So what are we going to do Tuesday and Wednesday? Well, get ready. You're going to go to all the factories, and you're going to get to see every pinball manufacturer that is out there right now. So that is a cool thing. So you're going to get to go to Chicago Gaming. You're going to get to go to Stern. You're going to get to go to American Pinball. You're going to get to go to Jersey Jack. So you've got four manufacturers that are opening their doors for the 40th to see how pinball machines are made. So that is a huge undertaking for a lot of us. That's huge. Now, I will say, in addition to those four tours, and each of those tours is roughly an hour, maybe an hour and a half when you take travel time. So three hours of the day. What else are people going to do those days? So we're also going to be going, well, so the first tour is on Tuesday afternoon. Then there's a dinner.
    40:36
    And then we're probably going to go up to, I think it's Galloping Ghost. Galloping Ghost is on your schedule, yeah. Yeah, Galloping Ghost for the rest of the evening. Then the next day, it's Stern. Then a luncheon. Then American Pinball. Then the flip out, the big show or the big thing at Interium on Wednesday night. Then JJP in the morning on Thursday. And then everything else. Then the seminars and the expo room and everything else just kicks off Thursday afternoon at noon. And then we just go into the whole thing. We're also talking. We may have a special speaker come to expo. Can't give you any details at this time because we're still working on it. But it is probably one person that I helped bring to expo many years ago. And he only did one pinball show in his history. and it was ours, and we're trying to bring him back for meet and greet, you know, some kind of a deal. So we're in negotiations right now with him coming back. As soon as we know, we'll let you guys know. I think you guys can gather from my hints who it is.
    41:49
    That's awesome. But, again, it's the 40th, right? Think about it. Forty years ago, Pinball Expo got started. And here's a little trivia question for you two guys. so Josh and Scott what was the game that we gave away at the very first Pinball Expo okay so 1984 oh no looking at IDB okay I'm thinking that's in was it That year? Was it a Black Knight 2000? No, Black Knight 2000. I'm sorry. I'm thinking – I'm sorry. Black Knight. Was it a Black Knight? It was 1983. Okay. Well, you said – so, 83.
    42:44
    84, 85. 84. Was it a space shuttle? Ooh, good guess. Ooh, that is a really good guess. Yeah. It was a very good guess, but the factory was still dark, and Space Shuttle was the first game to keep the lights on, as it were. Because that's right after the arcade crash. Mm-hmm.
    43:08
    So. Okay, give me a hint. Give me a hint. Barry Osler. Pinbot? Huh? Pinbot? Pinbot. Very good. Nice. It's actually behind you. It's off. Yes, it is. It's not that one. Okay. And that's when David Fix got his first pin bot. Yeah.
    43:31
    No, but pin bot was the very first game that we gave away. And the person who won it in the tournament, believe it or not, was a young man by the name of Steve Engel of Mayfair. So there you go. If you go into Expo, a lot of times you'll find Mayfair with all the back glasses and all the interesting old Dax Steve Engel. He's the first one that won the very first tournament at Pinball Expo. That's good to know. That's awesome. A little history in that. You know, it's kind of fun. But Expo has been this growing thing for many years. And, you know, people say, Dave, how are you doing this with American and Pinball Expo? Can you keep doing it? Right. So I've already told Rob, I says, Rob, I'm going to help you out with the 40th. Let's see where we go with that. But I don't know after this. I mean, you know, the company is getting bigger. I'm getting pulled two ways. I'm not as young as I used to be. The hairline is growing back. I mean, I'm losing hair. You're like 39 now, right? Yeah. Yes, going on 59. Thank you very much.
    44:36
    I wish. But, you know, it is a lot, you know, and everybody goes, well, how is, you know, I get into expo mode sometime around July. And I'm kind of a bear around the office. Some people will say, oh, he's trying to do this, that, the other thing. He's getting everything ready, and then he's also doing Expo. And this year was even more stressful for me because I took a week off to go to IAEPA Europe, which was September in Vienna. That was gorgeous. Did that show, met a lot of people, made a lot of sales there, and then came back, did Expo, turned around, went to IAEPA Orlando, came back. I mean, frequent flyer miles, there you go, it's racking up. And a little bit later on this year, in a few weeks, I'll be heading back down to Florida.
    45:26
    But it's fun. I'm kind of like chasing the silver ball, as it were. But, you know, the industry is still exploding, right? It's moving. It has a little bit of a pause right now because, like I said, it's a buyer's market. But, you know, there will be a writing of the ship, as I call it. Things will even out. And I think, you know, I mean, Americans' prices have never been overly topped, you know, not too big. But we try to give you a really nice game for what you're buying. I was going to say, the numbers you were saying, $73.95, was that correct, on a lot of your models? That's pretty comparable to the base models of competitors across the board. And like you're saying, American games are fairly well-packed for what you buy, even on the base model. So that's quite the deal. It is quite the deal. And then, you know, there's that limited version of Legends of Valhalla, which now is going to have that special price for two weeks at $79.95, which is a really smoking deal. While they're available, limited is few, but, you know, those might be gone.
    46:35
    And then, you know, we still make, you know, nobody's been asking for the classic right now, so we're just kind of holding off on the classic. but a lot of interest off of Legends has come just in the last few months because Steve Bowden and Frank have been working since August, right, on all the new updates for Legends. So Legends now has, like, the jukebox mode, and it has all the extra goodies that's in there.
    47:06
    It has the code plays really good. It's been used at some tournaments. some tournament players are taking note of how to play this game it's not easy um i know it was on carl de andalus and ie pinball and it's been also overseas at the uh european um i can't think of what his name was the young man over in germany or austria who's daniele yeah i mean no no it's on my it's on our web page that i do know um but you know they they streamed it right they they They're playing it, and they're going after trying to get into all those cool modes. And it's quite a packed little game, Legends of the Hall. So I have to give Scott and Frank hats off and thanking Steve for making it more of a tournament-ready game. And it's coming together very nicely. And a lot of people are now just discovering it. and I've been hearing a lot of people saying it's kind of like a diamond in the rough.
    48:09
    It's a quiet little secret. It's got some really good stuff in it. You have to find it out. It looks like it's Abe Flips that's doing the Legends of Valhalla complete and lay through. Gotcha. Well, that brings me to another question as well.
    48:25
    At one point, I know after you had shortly announced Legends of Valhalla, there was the two models, but then you guys added a third.
    48:32
    What has happened with the third? I don't think I've heard much since Expo of last year or maybe it was two years ago. Third model? Yeah, I want to say there was like a special plus or like a – I could be wrong. No. There's always been a limited. And so what we do is we make a classic and a deluxe, right? The classic is your street run game. The deluxe is just shaker knocker and magic glass upgrade to the classic So those are the two there The limited was the one where we always pull out the stops and make it look you know mirrored back glass you know go over the top uh the signature version of uh of galactic tank force right now it's got that lenticular back glass right 108 layers of artwork from franchi so it actually is stacked to a point where it looks like it's two feet back so when you're looking around it's like wow that is pretty cool so you know we try to make that games when they're limited or special special and that's all you get you know you just get those for those so it's kind of cool awesome well david you've been great i don't know if we do you have any more questions for him scott uh well i was just going to follow up i think what you're thinking josh is that when legends of valhalla was announced It sold out before it hit the international market. And so they made accommodations to make sure the international market was going to get some numbers. Is that correct, Dave? Yeah.
    50:06
    Here's the thing. We sat down as a company, and we had made a decision as a group, right? But I got the final say on it. And I said, okay, as a group, we said we're going to do 300. That's it. and we went day one and we announced it and uh within 24 hours to the day of the announcement eight o'clock the next day we had well over 500 so we we brought it back just to the 500 we bumped it because all those went over europe to europe okay so you know or australia or wherever they were. So we had to bring those, you know, back in, but that was the only reason we bumped it up. And usually we're not going to do that. We wanted to, originally I wanted to do 500 off the bat and just be done with it. It would have been great, but we kept it at, you know, I was my first launch with the company and the ownership said, no, let's try three. I said, okay. Then I called him back in 24 hours and said, we got over 500 orders. I bumped it to 500. He says, okay. I think that was a reasonable move because there was a reason behind it. Like there was an understandable reason. It wasn't a – and we've seen this with other companies that the goalposts were moved when they figured out that the demand was a lot higher than they anticipated.
    51:38
    However, yours seemed to be a, well, we set this limit but sold out way faster than we thought. so we're we're making accommodations especially for the international market correct and then there were still more than that right yeah there was still well more than that we were like it's i think it was 630 or 640 so you know we could have went 600 right but no we kept it in at 500 and uh you know it took us some time to build all those and you know we we got the some of the classics out to some of those other people that wanted it still. And then we had a few distributors who, you know, like, hey, we got like five or whatever it is. And they kind of said, well, hold on to them. We'll get back to you. And then they finally came back and canceled. So all of a sudden I have a little inventory. A little extra. Sure. Which happens with every company, actually. Correct. But here's the nice thing, right? Until December 15th, call your distributor, put an order in, you're going to save 400 bucks. That's pretty good. So the other question I have too, really quick is I don't want to know numbers, but would you tell us what your best selling game is to date so far for American?
    52:54
    The one we've made the most. Yeah. The most of. Houdini baby. Nice. Original the OG. The original OG. Listen, we are making Houdini right now. Okay. Take a look, Josh, if you can real quick. on IDPP. What game came out in 2017?
    53:15
    That's the question. What game came out in 2017? October of 2016 we announced Houdini. Texas of 2017 we brought Houdini to the market. Which is nuts. It's insane. That's crazy.
    53:32
    Houdini. Just look at the titles that were around there and to say that we're still making Houdini and people are still buying the Houdini because it's a game that they all want, right?
    53:48
    So it's like you're going up against Alice Cooper, Guardians of the Galaxy. Multimorphic had just hit the scene that year too, so they had a lot of their games. Star Wars, which is a beast of a theme, no one can deny that. Going up against Faults of ACDC. Attack from Mars was announced that year as well. and that's that's going up against another monster of a game that's that's impressive you guys are still making yeah yeah well i i just ran to and my wife came in for a second and the cat got trapped in here so the cat was freaking out so i went over but i looked down and the funny thing is i saw my original pinball expo uh lanyard sitting over there nice nice one other question i have too for you fix is when you were starting to do when you first came in on american you were starting to do kind of like this tour of interviews and one of the things you caught heat for is you said that if you hadn't been in the hobby for like five years you don't get like an opinion or something like your your your your remarks are not as as credible i guess i i joked with you like last year the year before you got to make a coin that says like dave's approval five-year coin five-year mark yes it is opinion approved opinion approved yes opinion get your chip you know i i guess it kind of goes back to your last episode i mean we can go back there a little bit and just talk about that for a second but you think about it when you know you're going to talk about a hobby that's rich with people who have long memories make sure that you're talking about the the rich history right make sure you got all the facts correct don't be mistaken and understand that you know what you're saying is you know going to be impacting a lot of people right you're talking about an industry that you know you can you know people think oh so what is it's a podcast they can't hurt listen you're not cisco and ebert okay cisco and ebert sat there in their front row of their balcony and said this movie sucks this movie was good you know it was like by the By the way, you immediately targeted like the 50 and older crowd with Cisco. I know.
    56:09
    I had to. You know, hey, I'm that age. So, you know, I remember. Just for the kids out there, there were two famous critics who before you could look up the reviews online, you could watch them on TV. And they were from the Chicago Tribune and the Chicago Sun-Times. There you go. Right here in Chicago. I'm old enough to remember Siskel and Ebert, yes. And you know what the funny thing is? Is Siskel and Ebert, if they said the movie stunk, I went and saw it. Yeah.
    56:40
    They had interesting tastes, I will definitely say. They definitely did. Well, go ahead. No, I was just going to say, you know, listen, I've listened to a lot of podcasts, and there are a lot of good guys out there, and I like Loser Kids. I like you guys. You guys have always done a very nice show. and you're informative, just like I like Nap Arcade. Okay, he sometimes gets the story a little goofy, but at the most of the time, he's still trying to do his journalistic integrity and get the story out there, right? And there are other people that I think just do a nice job and I go on their podcasts an awful lot. So, or at some times. And then it's funny because I got a lot of heat, I think it was around April and May this year. they're like we're in a day fix go you know he kind of disappeared he's not he's not talking on podcasts or anything anymore and i'm and you know one of the podcasters says yeah he's running a pinball company leave him alone he's trying to do work getting busy not the pr guy yeah yeah not the pr guy but like i said i wanted to you know jump on here with the loser kids and and definitely just give you guys a quick update thanks for having me on is there any other questions that Josh or Scott, anything you guys got out there? Anything? You know, the stock picks, what my next game title is, anything like that? Yeah, if you just want to start those four next titles. I think we were talking like Golden Girls, I think, was one of them before we started the episode. Yeah. Hello Kitty. I heard you said the stock was good on that, so you guys snatched that up, and that was good to go as well. We got to the nerds up there.
    58:23
    There you go. Animal House. Animal House, yeah. Yes. For the classic crowd, yeah. Big Trouble in Little China, I hear that one's coming too.
    58:33
    There's a lot of titles out there, right? And there's a lot of stuff that can be made into a pinball. But understand that there's just so much time and you want to hit the market just right, right? So there's a lot of thought and effort goes into what we pick and how well do we interface with the intellectual property. And that is huge for me. You know, we're a small company. So if I'm doing something with an IP and they're willing to jump in and help us with that IP and work, listen, the new kid on the block, how did we even forget about them? Burrell's the fun, right?
    59:11
    You've probably watched their little video, you know. Okay, that's a very solid, I would say that that's a very solid opening for a new company. Oh, very solid. Good for them. yeah hey i just take the gary stern approach welcome to the swimming pool jump on it yeah actually i do this conversation has made me think of one more question earlier in in the podcast you talked about one of your future titles is going to be a continuation of a previous game is that a previous american game or is that a previous game can you elaborate on continuation that's a very vague and interesting description it is not of an american game okay ah okay that's as far as i'm going to go with that but it is a continuization so people i think people are going to go really crazy about that yeah they're going to go back in dennis norman's catalog and go oh my goodness yeah there's could it be somebody else i think oh my goodness i think they're doing uno that's what they're doing they're going yeah Uno there you go hey that is a license theme right there you know draw four balls yeah they're doing a continuation of Spy Hunter from what 1987 yeah that game was so terrible we couldn't get James Bond so we were going to do Spy Hunter yeah alright Dave well we appreciate you stick around for a minute we want to get you an updated hat I'm wearing the did we decide this is the 2.0 or the 3.0 hat This is the 3.0 hat. 3.0, yeah. So we have a new hat for you. We'll get you some stuff. And Josh, send us out. So, David, if someone does – if you want someone to get a hold of you, what's the best way to get a hold of you? Well, you just call American Pinball. You can call the number. I'm right there. We have people at the front desk who will take the calls or push you over to me. You can also send me an email, david.fix at americanpinball.com. um i don't hide i'm there now granted i might not get to you right away you're still busy you're still busy yeah but you're talking about a guy who you know when i went to uh iapa right and came back um i was at 33 000 emails in that one week even though i was doing emails at iapa it just grows right i'm down to 15 000 right now which is a good little churning moment for me and uh you know i can get that back down but it's just it's it's a ton of stuff there's a lot of stuff that goes on with running a video company well if you want to get a hold of us we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com you can also find us on all the socials at loser kid pinball that's facebook Instagram, X, Twitch, Twitter, YouTube. Please subscribe, follow, all that jazz. I do want to give a personal thanks to David Fix because a lot of you, I don't know if you're aware, he was one of the instrumental helpers last year in flipping the script on autism. And any question I asked, he was like, yes, let's do it. And it was amazing to work with David. He was one of the ones behind the scenes along with a handful of others that it just seemed like everything went smoothly because of what you guys did. And you did something amazing. You stepped up when at the very last day we were packing everything up. We got hit and stolen from our booth, and it happened to be some signed American stuff. And you just stepped up and said, we'll get it taken care of. You got new banners. You got them signed. You got them shipped out, and it was amazing. I just want to personally thank you for supporting that cause and helping the children with autism that are having a hard time getting the help that they need because of those deductibles that were being not met because their families couldn't meet them. And so thank you for helping us with that. It's a pleasure, guys. Listen, we loved helping you guys with flipping the script. And if you put something else together, listen, give me a holler. I'm always there to support. You know, listen, we have to give back to the community. That's kind of my philosophy. And, you know, it's not like a philosophy that I've always have. But let me just if I can talk about this for two seconds and I'll wrap this up and you guys will find it amazing. In 1950, there was the Damon Runyon Cancer Fund, and Elvin G., Elvin Gottlieb, David Gottlieb, a bunch of manufacturers donated funds to this cancer research fund in the 50s. So if you go back in history, the pinball companies have always been supportive of different communities to give back. Right. It's cancer research. It's it's Make-A-Wish Foundation. It's Flippin' the Script. There are many others that we kind of give back to the community and help. You know, so I mean, even Project Pinball, too. So there are many nice things. We will definitely help as long as you guys are on board, right, and everything's up and up. I have no problem helping because it gives back to the community in a large way, and that's what I feel like. Definitely. Thanks again. Thanks again, and I guess I'll see you, well, maybe in two weeks, Scott. We'll see how December goes. We have something coming up, a team up. Remember? Oh, yes. Yes, we do. A special Christmas up. Okay. so alright see you later see you guys