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The Pinball Show Ep 80: WIN A GODZILLA+ BANNER & Your #1 Source For Pinball News

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·2h 10m·analyzed·Nov 8, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

Ep80: CGC Cactus Canyon Remake reveal, Stern Elvira 40th anniv ($28-35k), LE topper drama, SE Plus model

Summary

The Pinball Show Episode 80 covers major industry developments from Chicago Pinball Expo and surrounding weeks, including Chicago Gaming Company's Cactus Canyon Remake announcement with pricing and SE Plus model controversy, Stern's 40th Anniversary Elvira release at premium pricing ($28k-$35k), Jersey Jack Pinball's presence at Expo, and American Pinball's Legends of Valhalla with increased LE allocation. Hosts discuss community response to topper exclusivity drama, production complications, and broader market trends around pricing and model tiering.

Key Claims

  • Chicago Gaming Company's Cactus Canyon Remake LE priced at $9,250 sold out immediately; secondary market sales reached ~$15,000+

    high confidence · Zach and Dennis discuss LE pricing and secondary market flipping; Matt Morrison's CGC correspondent report confirms $9,250 LE price and sellout

  • Stern's 40th Anniversary Elvira limited to 199 units with distributor-set MSRP ranging $28,000-$35,000

    high confidence · Craig Bobby's Stern News Update provides full specifications and pricing range; confirmed at Midwest Gaming Classic display

  • CGC announced SE Plus model adding topper option to SE base model after LE exclusivity complaints

    high confidence · Zach reports Ryan White announcement at Midwest Gaming Classic; acknowledges this move upset LE buyers but pleased SE buyers

  • Stern's Insider Connected system on display at multiple venues with positive reception, though retrofit kits remain backordered

    high confidence · Craig Bobby reports positive verdict at Midwest Gaming Classic; mentions supply chain delays on retrofit kits

  • American Pinball increased Legends of Valhalla LE production from 300 to 500 units

    high confidence · Brian Kossner correspondent report confirms announcement made right before Expo; cites designer conversations

  • Cactus Canyon Remake presentation suffered technical difficulties; video cut off at 43 seconds during live sizzle trailer

    high confidence · Zach describes behind-scenes scramble to create trailer in 30 hours; video froze during 40-50 second mark at Expo presentation

  • Stern rumored to announce Rush-themed pinball game at very end of 2024 (originally 2021 in episode context)

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby states 'smart rumor money is still betting' on Rush announcement; labeled as rumor, not confirmed

  • Stern uses fat/wide spinners on Pro models of Godzilla and appears to favor narrower spinners on newer games generally

    medium confidence · Listener 'PBJ' research: fat spinners found on Spider-Man Pro, Game of Thrones Pro, Star Trek Pro (all Steve Ritchie designs); Godzilla Pro has wide middle spinner

Notable Quotes

  • “This is an exclusive to the Pinball Show on the Pinball Network...There is a new RPG game with integrated and interactive Bluetooth-controlled sex toys.”

    Dennis (reading email pitch) @ ~13:00 — Illustrates absurd tangential pitches received by pinball media; shows community's awareness of adjacent gaming trends

  • “It may be the most well-built new in-box game. This definitely is the most Valley Williams-feeling game to date they've made.”

    Matt Morrison (CGC correspondent) @ ~42:00 — Positive quality assessment of Cactus Canyon Remake; high praise for build quality and design philosophy

  • “I think they could have priced this LE more reasonably at $12,000 and sold every one of them day one.”

    Zach Minney @ ~75:00 — Critical analysis of CGC's LE pricing strategy; suggests underpricing at $9,250 relative to secondary market demand

  • “This game is a hit. This game is classic. It is beautiful. It is revisited in a way that I think still shocked people, even if they know what Cactus Canyon was.”

    Zach Minney @ ~66:00 — Strong endorsement of Cactus Canyon Remake as competitive product despite production complications

  • “Two days, this is what you're going to get. And I was damn proud of it. But the world at the expo didn't see it.”

    Zach (discussing sizzle trailer creation) @ ~56:00 — Behind-scenes context: 30-hour editing sprint produced video that froze after 43 seconds at presentation

  • “The LE has a lot of different features that are great...the only thing you cannot really reproduce on the LE is the topper.”

    Dennis @ ~85:00 — Analysis of topper as unique LE differentiator; explains collector demand and resale value strategy

  • “And my take is after people saw how much better the dot displays were and color was, that everyone just goes that route.”

    Zach (discussing why Classic edition was dropped) @ ~73:00 — Market signal: color LCD displays now expected standard; no demand for monochrome nostalgia variant

Entities

Chicago Gaming Company (CGC)companyCactus Canyon RemakegameStern Pinballcompany40th Anniversary ElviragameGodzillagameJersey Jack PinballcompanyAmerican Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: SE Plus model introduction after LE sellout creates model proliferation confusion and upset LE collectors; naming convention becoming unsustainable (SE, SE Plus, LE, Pro, Premium, CE)

    high · Dennis: 'these naming conventions are driving me mad...We've got CE, SE, LE, PRO, PREMIUM, SE Plus'; Matt Morrison reports LE buyers upset by topper availability

  • ?

    community_signal: Pinside community backlash over LE topper exclusivity; dealer/licensing partner Rick leaked SE Plus topper information, fueling speculation and complaints

    high · Zach: 'started brewing on Pennside. People, this is bullshit'...Rick leak 'just fueled that pin-side mob'

  • ?

    community_signal: Positive reception of Cactus Canyon Remake quality despite production complications; game positioned as potential award contender alongside Godzilla

    high · Matt Morrison: 'most well-built new in-box game'; Zach: 'I think it will be a contender in the award shows this year for a lot of things right there with Godzilla'

  • ?

    competitive_signal: Stern positioning Insider Connected as differentiator; retrofit kits backordered limiting retrofit upgrade adoption and system reach

    high · Craig Bobby: 'the only missing element being the insider retrofit kit, which still remains on backorder due to supply chain delays'

  • $

    market_signal: American Pinball increased Legends of Valhalla LE production from 300 to 500 units pre-launch; signals confidence in demand or internal inventory adjustment

    high · Brian Kossner: 'bumped up from 300...so there's more available now'; announced 'right before the show'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.390

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. Only the biggest and the best this week for you, listener. And rightfully so as we hit episode Big 8-0. Dennis and I Talk Fast Spinners, a Godzilla banner giveaway, you can win. Chicago Gaming Company's new game announcement, plus production timelines for Cactus Canyon remake, the hot mess that was a third model, mirrored back glass, technical difficulties, you name it. We also chat this week about the new Stern offering, production updates, a new operating system, and what's to come with Spike 3. Insider Connected, connecting with the community in a big way. Sex, toy, internet, connectivity? Yummy. Jersey Jack Pinball's production, new offerings, and tailgating with the team. Spooky Pinball's big questions and big changes ahead. American Pinball's unorthodox release of love. An American dream? Pinball Expo memories, upcoming shows, Haggis making strides, Pinball market trends, a Hallmark moment, and this weekend, Pinball media. And for shits and giggles, maybe even an appearance by the Silver Bowl Knight himself. It's been a while.
1:31
Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality.
1:53
Fucking Rusty. I don't even know how to do this anymore, Dennis. You usually just start. Okay. I'll try. Hold my hand. I'm good, brah. We'll do it live. Ladies and gentlemen, it's the Pinball Show. We're back, and we're at a big number here, Dennis Creasel. It's episode 80. It was 80 years ago. I don't like it. I'm Zach Minney, your host, as well as our other host, Dennis Creasel, from the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. Two weeks we've been gone, Dennis, and I'm fired up to talk to people about everything pinball. Yeah, there's been a lot of pinball and a lot of catching up. And holy cow, your notes for this episode are massive. These are not notes. This is a space station. It is. I think other podcasters would appreciate this. This is some good notes. Yeah, actually, I think they would. I was going to say, it's not Fowler-esque type of direction, but there was a Jason Fowler study. I saw Fowler at the expo. Holy moly, a Jason Fowler sighting. I think he grew. He's much taller now. Yeah, he's always tall, but... No, he's much taller. Gangly and tall and chuckly. Man, I miss that guy. Yeah, maybe too chuckly. We had so much fun at the Chicago Pinball Expo, didn't we, Dennis? Yep. I heard you and Tony talking about it on your last EGP podcast. Everybody go listen to that. Expo breakdown while we were still at Expo. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Did Tony have a good time? Yeah, it was just... I think we were both in a situation where we just needed to get away from Kansas for a little while. Did one of you at least say, hey, Tony, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore. No, Kansans don't say that crap. They don't? No, it's so obnoxious. Because the only thing we're known for is Wizard of Oz and wheat. And I'm not saying that those stereotypes are wrong. I'm just saying that it gets tiresome. Not even when the 20-degree wet, cold winds slapped you in the face up at Chicago? Ugh. No, I mean, it was cold when we left Kansas, too. We get those extreme weather. I mean, we don't have, like, lake effect conditions. Of course, I didn't see any lake effect snow or anything like I did back in my Syracuse days. Thankfully. But, you know, getting back and getting caught up on stuff. I thought you might find this interesting. This is an exclusive to the Pinball Show on the Pinball Network. But, you know, checking my EGP emails. And we may touch on this on the next EGP a little bit. But Tony did not want to run a review on this. But I occasionally get emails, usually people correcting or suggesting ideas for the pinball stuff. But I got an email for an episode pitch. Oh, I love these. And so I'm just going to read this first part. Because Tony was like, how about no? So I said, yeah, do you want to do this? Because it's on the video game side. So it's a little tangential, the pinball. but anyway, so here's what it says. Hi, Dennis. Thought you might want to mention this in an episode. There is a new RPG game with integrated and interactive Bluetooth-controlled sex toys. Oh, my God. The game demo was just released on the largest adult gaming platform, nuttaku.net, not safe for work, and is the first of its kind. Seriously, gaming history here, and this part's in bold. In fact, want me to set you up with a sex toy and gain access to try out slash review to talk about it on the air? Oh, no. It would be a really fun episode. Well, it would be really fun. So this is what I get. This is what I deal with, Zach. I'm jealous that I didn't get that email. And this is why people wonder why I'm the way I am. So I'm dealing with these requests. What, they sent you like a pocket orifice? I don't know what type. I don't know if it's toys that go on the front end or the back end or all the ends. I didn't look at that. Tony checked the trailer, and he's like, no. But I think in Tony's mind, he was thinking that they were going to just send the same toys, like, around to all the reviewers or something. I'm like, no, surely they'd give us clean ones, right? Oh, man. But I don't know. Maybe that's an untapped industry that I can get into. Maybe. So anyway, I sent it on to Tony because I'm like, well, you lead the video game section. So while this is addressed to my name, I feel that you need to decide if this is something to cover or not. It does have more physical nature than video games, and it includes balls. So maybe it is more of a pinball thing. I don't know. Anyway, so I came back to Expo, and that's what greeted me. You shoot everything! Well, I get an email as well. not even nearly as good as that. We get an email at the Pinball Network from a Scores PBJ emailing us in response to our discussion about spinner sizes on Stern games. I talked about an observation I made I thought, I don't remember the last time I seen a wide spinner on a newer Stern. Keith Elwin on Godzilla has put them in. On the Pro middle spinner shot was a wide one and I hadn't seen that in a while and I believe even on the LE, now that we have the premium LE, the right spinner is a wide one there as well. So, PBJ said, just listen to another great episode. You question your listeners about Stern's fat spinners, is what he's calling them, and he's got an answer. Did a little research for us, and he said Stern does seem to favor a certain kind of spinner, but the thicker ones, the ones that feel better, can be found on the following games. Spider-Man Pro, Game of Thrones Pro, and Star Trek Pro. I would assume premium LEs as well, but But, yeah, on those titles, Spider-Man, Game of Thrones, Star Trek, all. Game of Thrones is a Spike 1?

  • CGC dealers were not informed of Cactus Canyon pricing prior to Expo announcement

    high confidence · Zach reports writing down pricing during seminar; confirms dealers were unprepared for announcement

  • Cactus Canyon Remake 3D printed components (Bart's arms) shown at Expo are not final production version

    high confidence · Matt Morrison reports conversation with Butch Peel at show confirming 3D printed prototypes; final version to follow

  • “these naming conventions are driving me mad. I can't even strike. We've got CE, SE, LE, PRO, PREMIUM, SE Plus.”

    Dennis @ ~80:00 — Industry-wide criticism of tier proliferation; highlights confusion in current multi-model strategy across manufacturers

    • Legends of Valhalla
    game
    Insider Connectedproduct
    Zach Minneyperson
    Dennis Creaselperson
    Matt Morrisonperson
    Craig Bobbyperson
    Ken Rudbergperson
    Brian Kossner (Kaz)person
    Ryan Whiteperson
    Butch Peelperson
    Keith Elwinperson
    Chicago Pinball Expoevent
    Midwest Gaming Classicevent
    Steve Bowdenperson
    Planetary Pinball (Rick)person
  • ?

    community_signal: CGC dealers unprepared for Cactus Canyon pricing announcement; seminar presentation was over 15 minutes late, raising professionalism concerns

    high · Zach: 'dealers were not informed of any of this info prior to the announcement'; 'over 15 minutes late to the presentation'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Zombie Yeti confirmed as Stern art department head; involved in Godzilla and Elvira 40th Anniversary artwork/design decisions

    high · Craig Bobby mentions 'zombie Yeti artwork' on Godzilla banner; Stern credited with anniversary design elements

  • $

    market_signal: Cactus Canyon Remake LE at $9,250 undershooting secondary market demand; hosts suggest $12,000 pricing would have maintained sellout and reduced flipping

    high · Zach: 'I think they could have priced this LE more reasonably at $12,000 and sold every one of them day one'; secondary market sales ~$15,000+

  • ?

    product_strategy: CGC introduced SE Plus model as post-launch strategy to address LE topper exclusivity complaints by offering topper as add-on without full LE feature set

    high · Midwest Gaming Classic announcement: SE Plus = SE + LE topper; Matt Morrison: 'This move has upset some LE buyers and made some SE buyers very happy'

  • ?

    product_concern: Cactus Canyon Remake experienced presentation technical failure with video freezing at 43 seconds during critical Expo seminar reveal

    high · Zach: '11th hour, stop everything' 30-hour edit; 'at 40, 50-something seconds, it locked up, and it froze, and nobody's seen all of it'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern rumored to announce Rush-themed pinball game at end of 2024; labeled as 'smart rumor money' betting but not officially confirmed

    medium · Craig Bobby: 'the smart rumor money is still betting that Stern's next release will be the prog rock music theme of Rush, rumored to be announced at the very tail end of 2021'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball exploring potential Toy Story Lightyear movie tie-in aligned with June 2022 theatrical release; positioning as future announcement candidate

    medium · Ken Rudberg: 'Could this be the movie tie-in that Jersey Jack has been waiting for? It seems to line up nicely, but only time will tell'

    • 7:34
    That is correct. Yeah. But Spider-Man and Star Trek are Sam games. So we haven't seen them in a while. Yeah. And you yourself have a Sam game. And apparently it was a Steve Ritchie favor because those are all Steve Ritchie games. Very good observation. Yeah. He said, you're right. The goat has this one on lockdown. He called me a goat. Fat spinners can only be found on Godzilla or a game with a DMT.
    7:58
    Paul, thanks. And speaking of Godzilla, I want to do another giveaway, Dennis. I want to give these two something. You're going to give away a Godzilla. It's episode 80. We've got to give away something. Yeah. I don't have enough Godzillas to give away. Oh, yeah, that's true. You can give away a spot in 2023. That's right. They're backordered quite a bit. Okay. The Godzilla banners, they have not been released yet. to distributors in bulk. So we have not seen them yet, but I want to give away a Godzilla banner with that beautiful zombie Yeti artwork. So here's what we're going to do. It's going to be a fun contest for you listeners. You can win one of these beautiful banners. Remember, they don't have an MSRP, but I've seen them sell for $200 plus on the pin side. So a Godzilla banner can be yours. All you've got to do is submit to the pinballnetwork at gmail.com an audio clip of you presenting your best Godzilla roar. Well, we'll just have to be honest with these Japanese investors. They come from a culture that values honor and respect. And Godzilla.
    9:03
    Godzilla! Okay, that's right. Godzilla! This needs to stop now. That's it. That's all. That's not horror. They'll do that. Why not? So we are going to listen to them. We'll share some of them with you all maybe next week or the week after. And we will pick which one we like the most. Okay, this is exactly what we shouldn't do when they show up. Mom, that's enough. What? We're out of vodka. Sorry, I thought you were doing Godzilla.
    9:36
    Mom, that's enough. What? I'm laughing. Points for authenticity, points for creativity, points for funny. We don't have a real criterion here besides make it good. Make it entertaining. Make it so. Godzilla banner for you listeners. That's going to be a lot of fun. All you've got to do is give us a great chance. Do you have an example of the way the Godzilla roars? Yeah, I always go, Oh.
    10:04
    Well, that was a hungover Godzilla. That's standard. This was the Toho era, or the Shogun era Godzilla. Yeah. Tied you it up. Mine goes,
    10:17
    That's a pooping Godzilla. Howdy ho there I'm glad you got me out I'm sure glad there was a fat spinner I like it when people let things rip They never have that in the shows Like Godzilla turds You know how big that would be? Does he only shit in the ocean? I don't know I wonder if it's radioactive I wonder if he's like us Where he's out in public And he's like I can't poop here I gotta go home Yeah, he's like a piece of paper out on the ground to set off.
    10:51
    Does Godzilla, he's in the sea, right? He lives in the sea? Yeah. You don't want shit where you sleep. I don't know. See, these are the things they don't uncover in the Toho universe. But let's take a listen, Dennis, to the TPN Correspondents. They may cover just that as well as your pinball news for the week. It's time for TPN Industry News. Matt Morrison here with your Chicago Gaming Company update, including a short Expo recap. At 3 p.m. October 29th, the world finally saw Cactus Canyon remake in person. This was CGC's Expo seminar. The seminar had its share of technical difficulties, but all was not lost. Our very own Zach Minney put together a very nice fizzle trailer for the game. You can check that out over at Straight Down the Middle on YouTube. Pricing was revealed at $92.50 for the LE, which includes a wood apron, custom molded train tracks and mine cart, gunmetal trim, shaker motor, and a topper. The SE coming in at $8,000. The LEs were sold out very quickly, leaving some buyers out in the cold if they wanted a topper. Initially, the Wild West Shootout Topper was an LE exclusive. However, CGC just informed dealers of the SE Plus model, which will include the topper. The price? $92.50. This move has upset some LE buyers and made some SE buyers very happy. At the end of the day, you can't please everyone, I suppose, but I will leave you with my good, the bad, and the ugly takeaways from my time on Cactus Canyon Remake. The good? It may be the most well-built new in-box game. It just oozes quality. This definitely is the most Valley Williams-feeling game to date they've made. The gunmetal trim has a really nice satin feel. Definitely nails that vibe. All the other LE additions are just icing on the cake. The topper is just the cherry on top. Obviously, it integrates into the game so well, not just visually, but with its own mode. The bad? Code is finished, but still really shallow. We all know in due time, Lyman will fix that. The ugly? No ugly here. This game is gorgeous. Worried about Bart's arms falling off? Those aren't production. Talking to Butch Pill at the show, he showed me that they were 3D printed to make the show in time, but that is not going to be the final version. All in all, I think this is a win for CGC, especially with Lyman's Code in the future. But I think that'll do it for this week. For CGC, I'm Matt Morrison.
    13:13
    Hello and welcome to the pinball show's Stern News Update. I'm Craig Bobby. Well, after our TPS hiatus from the hype and excitement and, let's face it, a pinball reunion of sorts at the Chicago Pinball Expo, it's time to take a step back and review the Stern News developments over the past two weeks. And at the top of the list, Stern surprised the pinball world, including this reporter, with their Chicago Expo announcement that they would be releasing a 40th anniversary edition of Elvira's House of Horrors pinball machine. Yes, limited to just 199 units, this highly sought-after and collectible machine was on full display at Expo, much to the glee of Expo attendees. This new Elvira machine includes beautiful new custom paranormal purple sparkle powder-coated pinball armor legs, inside art blades, a 40th anniversary logo added to the full color mirrored back glass, a custom Elvira dagger shooter knob, and a 40th anniversary themed cabinet artwork produced on a hyperchrome embossed surface. Stern will fit this game with its upgraded audio system, anti-reflection pinball playfield glass, Shaker Motor, and a sequentially numbered 1-199 Anniversary Metal Plaque. Also included is an exclusive autographed Elvira trading card and an Elvira autographed best-selling autobiography book, Yours Cruelly, Elvira Memoirs of the Mistress of the Dark. And if that wasn't enough, accompanying each game will be a 40th Anniversary Certificate of Authenticity signed by Stern Chairman and CEO Gary Stern and most importantly, by Elvira herself. And yes, this machine will also be equipped with Stern's new Insider Connected system. What makes this game announcement unique is that Stern didn't assign a defined MSRP, leaving it up to their distributors to set a market price based on their customer base and local market demand. Still interested? while there are still a few units hanging around, with prices ranging anywhere from $28,000 to $35,000 American dollars. Wow! Meanwhile, back at the Midwest Gaming Classic this past weekend in Laverne and Shirley's hometown of beautiful downtown Milwaukee, Stern had their Insider Connected system on full display again with a Kaiju-sized Godzilla blow-up, and Cityscape, along with a massive LCD leaderboard display, showcasing their insider connector system and various achievements for all that signed in and tried the machine. Overall, the verdict continues to be two thumbs up, not only for Keith Elwin's Godzilla, but also for the insider connected system as a whole, the only missing element being the insider retrofit kit, which still remains on backorder due to supply chain delays. And with Halloween behind us and the American Thanksgiving and Christmas in the headlights, expect more Stern code to drop soon for many machines, and to hear more news on Stern's last new release announcement of the year, yet the smart rumor money is still betting that Stern's next release will be the prog rock music theme of Rush, rumored to be announced at the very tail end of 2021. That's all for this week for the Pinball Show. I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    16:40
    Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. All eyes have been focused on Expo for the past week, and it appears that it was the center of the pinball universe and a reminder of what shows used to be like. Although there was no announcement from Jersey Jack Pinball, they made themselves known at the show by bringing every one of their games for showgoers to play. Guns N' Roses was unsurprisingly front and center, but with all the new and recently announced titles on offer, it makes you wonder what their next big announcement will be. An interesting development on the movie front may provide a clue. Disney Pixar recently announced the new Toy Story prequel, Lightyear, which is set to hit theaters on June 17th of 2022.
    17:29
    Could this be the movie tie-in that Jersey Jack has been waiting for? It seems to line up nicely, but only time will tell if the stars will align on a Toy Story movie and pin release. And on the Jersey Jack Pinball achievements front, rollouts for scorebit achievements continue with The Hobbit version 3.12. Update your Hobbit code to experience the achievements that Jersey Jack and scorebit have dreamed up. For the Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg. Hey, this is Kaz with an update on American Pinball. I was able to attend Pinball Expo this past weekend. Had a great time hanging out with everyone and just playing games and having fun. And while there, I was able to attend the American Pinball Seminar, along with meeting the entire team and finally getting to play Legends of Valhalla. Now, right before the show, they did announce that it's going to be 500 LEs. That was bumped up from 300, so there's more available now. It was great to talk to the designers, Scott and Frank, along with Steve Bowden. He was very excited about the future there at American Pinball. Now, there at the booth, American Pinball had Houdini, Hot Wheels, and plenty of Legends of Valhalla for everyone to play. And they were also at the Midwest Gaming Classic the past few days, so I hope everybody had a chance to get out there and play the new games. Now, you can go check out the Pinball Expo Twitch channel if you want to watch the seminar, or go check out American Pinball's Facebook page for more pictures and info. Now, in the next few weeks or so, I want to try to get some more info from the team and details about the new games. So I hope to have that for you guys soon. I hope everyone has a great week and has fun playing pinball. For the Pinball Show, this is Brian Kossner.
    19:13
    Whew, it was good to hear from all those correspondents this time. Absolutely. Chicago Gaming Company, we're going to start off with this. they announced the Cactus Canyon remake. Well, they announced it, I guess, a couple of fried months back, but they showed it off and exposed it to the world at the Chicago Pinball Expo two weeks ago. In one of the greatest reveals pinball has ever... Oh, wait. No, I'm sorry. I was reading my GNR notes. I apologize.
    19:41
    Man, that was a rough going. That was a really rough going. You did not attend the seminars, right? No, no, no. I knew the information would flow out of there like wine the moment it ended.
    19:53
    I just kind of hung around the doors. I saw them wheel them in into the vendor area. Well, they were in a hurry, too, weren't they? Yeah, no, they almost ran me over. I was going to be roadkill out there in the free play area. I'd be as dead as the games that were in that section.
    20:09
    I was running behind them moments later. You're going to need an extension cord. How bad would that have been? If Zach didn't save the day with an extension cord, they would have been like, thump, thump. One second, guys. We're going to have to turn this game over just to hit it in the receptacle. Thump.
    20:29
    Oh, man. Thanks to George Fisher for having an extra extension cord available. George is always prepared. I just knew when I – they were – here's behind-the-scenes actions for you guys that care. I was in the seminar because I had to hit our sizzle live for CGC that we did, and I was waiting and I was like, shit, okay, five minutes, ten minutes. I'm like, where is Ryan White and the rest of this crew? Like the show, the seminar is on. Where are they at? So I left the seminar room, went to their booth, and they're like in a flurry trying to get one of these things into the seminar room. And I was just observing, thinking I could lend a helping hand if at all possible. So I was trying to help there and noticed that Ryan was like, crap, this one doesn't have the most up-to-date code. I don't want to take this one. He tried to start updating the code, and he was like, realize, shit, I'm already 20 minutes late. He was like, grab that one. So then the team started grabbing another one. And then as I seen the short extension cord, I don't even know where that thing came from. It was like maybe three foot, maybe, maybe. I think we just call those cords. It was a dangler. I don't even think it hit the ground. and when they were holding it all up and they were getting it out, I was like, wait, hold up, Ryan, you're going to need an extension cord. That's not going to work. And he was like, grab an extension cord. And I was like, not that I work for CGC, but okay, I'm a dealer. I might as well try to help. You work for them now.
    22:00
    I'm a vivid. So then I rushed in and they got it, and then they presented it kind of, the sizzle hit to expose to the world the greatness that was Okay, I just came to remake, and at 40, 50-something seconds, it locked up, and it froze, and nobody's seen all of it. Was this the video that canceled one of our TPS episodes? This was that very video. That 11th hour, stop everything, run a Chicago film, grab a game, bring a studio film, edit for fucking 30 hours in an editing chair so that people could see a sizzle the next day at Chicago Expo. For 43 seconds. for 43 seconds. Did they at least get to see one of your smoke transitions? You're such an asshole. I am not. I'm the second nicest person in pinball. And you used to just embrace it. I thought that smoke transition was theme appropriate. It was. I looked at it and I thought, I wonder how many hours are spent on that. Oh, my gosh. I'm not judging. Hey, I told Doug Duva it wasn't going to be my opus. But with two days, that's exactly what I told them. I said, two days, this is what you're going to get. And I was damn proud of it. But the world at the expo didn't see it. That's okay. So they announced this thing. Bit of a messy presentation. I can tell you the dealers were not informed of any of this info prior to the announcement. So I was, maybe this is too much inside baseball, but I was writing down the pricing of the games in the seminar. Like, shit, okay, how much is it? Oh, wow. Yes, yes. Not prepared. Yeah, I mean, I heard about them being over 15 minutes late to the presentation. And, of course, when we talk about professionalism, that doesn't set off a lot of confidence in people. But it's pinball. They just buy up everything anyway now. And the one good thing is this game is a hit. This game is classic. It is beautiful. It is revisited in a way that I think still shocked people, even if they know what Cactus Cam was. It looked great. It looks way better than the original. It plays really well. It is a winner. I think ultimately this is jumping ahead of the card here, but I think it will be a contender in the award shows this year for a lot of things right there with Godzilla. Really? Which ones? Things like you've got toys mechanisms, you've got a topper, you've got lighting, definitely lighting. You've got sound, integration, call-outs, music. A lot of that stuff, I think we've got a competition here. I really do. Yeah. Maybe on some of those areas, yeah. Some of them possibly. Yeah, well, Topper for sure. But, yeah, I don't know if it'll get lighting. Oh, my gosh, with the RGB?
    24:50
    Yeah, but everything's got RGB now. Yeah, but not to the degree. Not to that same degree. And we don't have a JJP this year, so. I mean, that's fair. That's fair, as Joel would say. Joel of Just Another Pinball Stream, Just Another Pinball Podcast. The sound is impeccable on it with new call-outs.
    25:09
    I don't know. I think it's got a lot of charm that nothing else this year really has the degree of that charm. But we have two models initially. They call it the SE. So I don't know if they're – they used to call this the Special Edition, and there was a Classic. But now I'm hearing people say Standard Edition. I don't know what it's formally called. I'm just calling it the SE. Do you know, Dennis? I have no clue. No, I saw people were like, why is it listing this as standard now instead of special? I guess it was on a flyer or something. People still weren't entirely sure, though, if it was saying the marketing group didn't know what it meant either and just guessed it meant standard because they dropped the classic for this game. Yeah, dropped the classic, which I think is okay. I don't see that as a problem, especially if they were doing that, It sounds like sales were probably significantly lower on that end. Yeah, my guess was always the original thought was some people, some purists, when they launched Medieval Madness, they didn't know whether it would be big demand for it to look any different or not. So they had the classic to appeal to those. And my take is after people saw how much better the dot displays were and color was, that everyone just goes that route. Absolutely. So we have an SE for $8,000 plus shipping, and then they announced an LE, a limited edition package, limited to 1,250 units at the price of $92.50 plus shipping. And the biggest thing I have seen is the reaction of, given the current purchasing climate in pinball, people find that LE price extremely low. And I agree. It's a steal. Anytime you're at $92.50 for a pinball machine, that's high. I get that. But, yeah. It's a relative steal. That's right. Given the current purchasing climate, 9250, I thought, was considerably low in comparison to the other high-end model pinball machines from other manufacturers. Now, I knew when they released this, they would sell them out immediately. I knew when they released this that the LEs, being the only one with the topper, would be the most sought after, and they would be flipped very quick and flipped for things like 15 grand. I didn't know how rampant it would be, but when the LE came out prior to the recent developments the last couple days, the LE was selling on the secondary market already those spots for a total of what would be about $15,000, if not more. That is substantially more. I think they could have priced this LE more reasonably at $12,000 and sold every one of them day one. Agree or disagree? Yes, actually, I do think so. Okay, so, and I didn't care what they did with the SE. They might have had to bump that up to $9,000 or so. But closer to that Jersey Jack model that they're doing their LE and collector's editions for. I bet, honestly, I think they could have kept the SE at $8,000 and still sell the LE at your price. Yeah, that's true. I think so, too. So, it came out. Once people were able to see it, able to read about it, it was kind of a certified hit. we did hear some people crying about not getting that topper though. It started. Many tears. It started brewing on Pennside. People, this is bullshit. I couldn't get the LE. I've got the other games. And I get that. I would want the topper as well. But they started that. And man, it didn't help that Planetary Pinball's Rick, who is kind of a licensing partner, is also coincidentally a dealer. So you see, he started like leaking info about a possible SC topper add-on. And this just fueled that pin-side mob. So, are these leaks are that it would be the same topper, or is it a different? I haven't read this. Okay, so this was just Rick saying, you know, they're talking about maybe making that topper available. Since everybody wants that topper, all the LEs are sold out, maybe you'll see CGC announce that they're going to sell this topper, or sell another edition of the game. Now, didn't they at Expo say, you know, there's a possibility that the topper would eventually be, like, I thought I had heard early on that it was, you know, they had just indicated, yes, we're not saying, we're not promising that the topper is only going to be an LE lock-in, but they also were completely noncommittal about doing it on anything else. Sure, they were going to keep the door open there because I think they started noticing in the 11th hour that this was going to sell well and people are going to want that topper. Now, needless to say, the LE has a lot of different features that are great and that make that bomb probably pretty high. I do know, speaking inside with the CGC company, the bomb on this game may be higher than the other games. It took a lot of money to build these games. You get that arch with, I don't know if it's laser etched, but wood. That's a nice feature. You get a couple other sculpted pieces that are nice. But my argument was the only thing you cannot really reproduce on the LE is the topper. So the Pinside Mob was getting a little frustrated. We have LE buyers that are like, no, keep the LE how it is. This is what makes this game valuable. This is why I was chasing this game. Then you got other people saying, why do you give a shit if other people get toppers or not? Why do you care? Investment. Yeah. So, this last week at the Midwest Gaming Classic, Ryan White was there with the seminar announcing that Cactus Canyon Remake SE Plus is now a new trim model. Plus, plus, plus. Everybody's going plus.
    30:50
    So the SE Plus is a... These naming conventions are driving me mad. I can't even strike. We've got CE, SE, LE, PRO, PREMIUM, SE Plus. I want to see an SE Minus. Let's take the standard, and then I strip something out. Like, okay, you don't get the dude with the bouncy hat. The hat's gone. The hat blew away like a tumbleweed. So essentially this SE Plus is the SE plus the LE topper.
    31:20
    They just sell it as a separate add-on. I don't know if we need a special plus version. Sadly, if listeners think about it enough, there's a reason they don't sell it as an accessory. Now, if they add like that etched stuff, is that the SE plus plus that comes with the topper? If you want the one with the etching but not the topper, does that become an SE plus as well or is that like an SE? What about the railroad tracks and the powder coat? I'm trying to figure out how many icons can we put? Right now, Spooky's like, hey guys, bet you don't want to a la carte this shit. I'm telling you. Don't a la carte it. So, yeah. It's the SE Cactus Sucker. The Cactus Sucker. Watch out for the barbs. Don't be a cactus sucker. In more interesting news, this SE Plus was priced at the same price as the LE, 92.50 plus shipping.
    32:21
    So you get less but you pay the same but you paying the same because you weren fast enough So is that them admitting that oh we probably should have marked the LEs up higher from the get That about as close as you going to get I was like, here you go. Here's your top for the same price. I was like, okay.
    32:43
    Here's what I will say. What will you say, Zach? I spoke with owner and president of CGC, Doug Duba. The Doug, oh. The Doug Duba. Working with him on that sizzle stuff. and we were just talking business and stuff throughout that process. And this guy's legit. He is a great leader. He has a great mind. And maybe more so than it even should be, his heart is truly in the right place. He was more concerned. I don't think he would mind if I shared this. But he's more concerned with those missing out and doing right by the hobbyist than anything else. when I talked to him about pricing and told him, you know, you're going to have to expect flippers. You're going to have to expect this kind of stuff because you're grossly underpriced on this.
    33:33
    He truly cares about, and I'm not trying to show it, he truly cares more than maybe a CEO business owner should, but he really cares about people missing out and people enjoying this product more than anything. I don't think he has enough hands on deck to help with that. That's just my take. Hmm. Interesting. That's interesting. Well, I mean, I don't know. Just going over everything that's happened, well, I mean, obviously the positive is the game has been really well received. So, like, people are really impressed with what modification. And that's obviously not even touching the future code that Josh Sharpe and Lane and Caesar worked on. Oh, it's a whole other thing, yeah. But so much about this rollout seemed rushed. That's how I'm going to describe it. And that's not a reference to the upcoming Stern Pill. That's right. It just seems like if I put on – to be frank, like I am. Sure. To be frank. If I had put on a launch like this in my job, I would have been deeply embarrassed, and I would have expected to be reprimanded for it. Yeah. I don't know if that awareness is their self-awareness. Well, and again, if that's how they roll, okay. I mean, I'm just saying, like, from the disaster of how they did the presentation at Expo to the weird let's have an SE Plus with the same exact pricing as the LE to the lack of clarity on what you would be able to get with an SE versus an LE. And we'll be talking about more here that you can add to that list. So how quickly do they think they're going to build this stuff? They have some pretty lofty production estimates that they've been sharing with dealers. Their plan is to roll out 500 of the SEs starting mid to late November and pausing that kind of at the end of the year before rolling into all 1,250 LEs being produced starting January 2022. Now then, they will resume those SEs after to finish out, but they do not want to drag this out as they have other games And because you're hearing me tell you, they have another game that is probably ready to go. Okay. Now, so do you have a sense or do you know when they said 500 SEs starting mid to late November, how many of those did they think they'd get done by the end of the year? I think they were thinking all. Oh, because I was wondering if you meant by resume the SEs afterwards meant the rest of the five. Like they only assumed they're going to sell 500 SEs. I don't know what I can say. They've flown past 500 Nessies. So they really think they can build 500 pens in essentially eight weeks at most. Well, not even eight because you said mid-November is the earliest. So four to six weeks. That's 20 to 25 pens a day rocking and rolling. And I'm sure that their staff could do it. Have they stocked up on all the supplies or something? Because it's just, to me right now, it seems like everyone is struggling on production. I know. I'm told that the parts are there. Okay. There may be one or two, but the parts are there. That would look really, if they're able to do that, that would definitely look impressive to people. Because every, I mean, you know, from Stern to JJP, Multimorphic is a multi-month wait. Everything's a wait right now. Multimorphic multi-month wait.
    36:54
    Their resume doesn't suggest that. I hope that they can do that. If anybody can do it, I mean, Churchill Cabinets and CJ, they can do it, but we're going to have to see. So that was lofty in and of itself. What I think is going to happen, they're going to make as many SCs as they can. I don't know if they'll be the SC or the SC pluses. I don't know. Then they're going to roll out all the LEs. I think the LEs will probably take from January to end of March if they start in January. And then if they have another game that they want to roll with, I see them rolling with that, pausing production or putting on a second slower line, those SEs or SE pluses of Cactus Canyon. Then you'll see them start trickling out in the late spring, early summer-ish before moving on to maybe another game or another remake at the end of next year. That's what I would guess is going to happen. Okay. So that's all. Then the drama is not over. Two days ago out of left field, licensor and CGC dealer Planetary Pinball announces that only PPS, Planetary Pinball, only PPS customers have the opportunity of purchasing a mirrored back glass for their CGR. Limited edition artwork print by Brian Allen. A discounted non-reflective glass and other stuff as well, I believe. So not only... FD plus epsilon, but only with PPS. That's right. Only PPS customers. Wait. Only, only, only. Bye, bye, bye. You can't do that. Why not? I do well at work. I think that's what Rick is thinking. Because they're the licensor as well as the distributor. So they're in a really interesting position of power. And they get the largest cut of allotments, of course. It's like, guys, it's easier to get off the pot. Just have PPS sell these if you don't want a dealer network. But you can't give incentives to go to one. It's a special PPS refinery edition. Oh, my God. Epsilon Plus SE. Plus, CGC quickly stepped in and announced that all CCLA buyers have the chance to purchase that mirrored back glass.
    38:57
    The sticky thing is just that CGC is essentially having to thank PPS for allowing those buyers to purchase the back glass because they own the rights or they have the rights, they manage the rights to the intellectual property of Cactus Canyon. That's a bit of a conflict, is it not? The move, I mean, the thanking, I mean, that I guess just kind of falls into a, hey, You know, Zach will sell you a CTC. You can stand there and order a CTC from Zach. But PPS, if you want the back glass, only requires that you kneel sort of thing. But I guess it's CTC doing the kneeling. Okay. Well, it wasn't enough that dealers weren't really informed when this thing rolled out. I was at the expo trying to man a booth, trying to run that ad, trying to take orders. And then next Saturday, Saturday night, I'm getting a flood of emails. Can I get that back glass? What about the back glass? Do I have to go to PPS and not you? I'd like to support you. I'm like, what? What? What is going on? In my view, what I think, what they could have done is if PPS wanted to offer something extra unique and they, like, have a special PPS edition and that had been announced and set up, you know, I could see, you know, what, Jack Winery used to get that with CERN. Sure, sure. So it's like, yeah, and I'm not saying that isn't a form of conflict with how does that make your other distributors feel, but that's a political problem for people to deal with. Well, I was talking about the licensing, being a licensor and a dealer. Well, I mean, yes, but it's not, I mean, but again, it's like, but everyone knows the, I mean, the conflict's announced. Sure, sure. This isn't court. He doesn't have to recuse himself. It's like, hey, I control the license, and I also, it's like, if Nintendo wanted to build their own pinball machines, people could go, that's not really fair. They control the license, and they sell the games, but oh well, I mean, that's how it is. It just feels like the communication's not there between those parties. Well, it definitely was. When you have Rick announcing things and CGC is like, wait, hold up. Like, what are you doing? Can you run stuff by us first maybe? Ultimately, this is the clinical term, listener, but this was a clusterfuck that I think personally was avoidable every step of the way. No. I can't envision a way that this could have been solved. That's right.
    41:07
    Pre-informing your distribution network about pricing and the models to showing up on time to your own presentation. No, I just want to see how it's possible. And I think there's a bit of a conflict, a bit of a mess with PPS, as history suggests. It's just that it's – is this word accurate? A mictilation? Is that a word? I don't even know if that's a word. I don't know what it means if it is. Okay. Email us at thepenballnetwork at gmail.com. Tell me if I know what it is. Yeah, it's too hard for us to go to the dictionary. I don't even know how to spell it. So, good fucking grief. Next story. But I don't know what else to say. I'm glad the game is out. It's spectacular. And here's the silver lining before we move to the next story. I know a little bit about this extended code that Lyman and Josh Sharp are working on. And as if this game wasn't kind of a hit in and of itself, the feel-good is there. Just wait for that. The feel-good is there. And maybe, just maybe, we may be seeing another CGC video coming out this week. Hmm. We will just have to wait and see. And by see, I mean S-E-E. Special Edition Enhanced. C-E plus minus. CGC just needs more management there. They just need more people to help with some decision-making and some planning prior to the execution of stuff. No, this is fine. This is fine.
    42:29
    I don't know if Spur and Pinball needs any more people. They keep adding people. They're like a growing child. They're getting into their hungry growth spurt years. You know what? I think that works. I really do. The clothes aren't fitting them anymore. I might have to look at some new factories. Like, what are we doing, guys? And you're all like, I'm tired of buying new factories for you. Why don't you quit growing for a while? That's right. Eat your peas. And they're all like, I don't want to build more of the old games. I want to build new games. You can't tell me what to do. You're not my real dad. You're not my real president. New guy. I did meet the new president, Seth Davis. You did? Yeah. Nice fella. Had a little quick meeting with him and Gary Stern and John Biscali. Yeah. Did he talk like how the kid I did talked? Oh, I thought you were like Mickey Mouse Who are you?
    43:20
    I'm not here He just explains So that's the stuff that happens at work at Disney It's like Dune and the spice turning your eyes blue With the voice I get that reference now That's great That's where I put it in So as of right now I'm good Seth Davis was very open to especially the media side of things. And there's some stuff brewing that we're working on with him already. So this is good. This is good stuff thus far. I can't tell the future, but this is good stuff thus far. Also of considerable note, since we've spoke last, and as these listeners have not heard our take on the recently announced special edition of Elvira's House of Horrors, they're coming out with a 40th anniversary that was announced two days before Expo. Time me. Great. Yeah, I got all the time in the world. Let's do this. 199 units of this 40th anniversary. It's too hard to make that one last unit. Yeah, I couldn't squeeze it out there. Bloop. Lots of dazzle. One-of-a-kind additions to this. You've seen it at Expo. It's stunning. Is it not stunning? Yeah, it looks good. It looks really good. Producing these at the end of November, beginning of December, so they're coming quick. All of those who have premiums on pre-order? I don't think you're going to see those for a while.
    44:40
    Which has kind of frustrated some people. They're like, wait a minute, you got part of it? So I don't know the story of where this is coming from, why this is. I do know that there was no MSRP that was set. Dealers were not allowed to list any online pricing. You're supposed to contact for pricing. And they sold out immediately.
    44:59
    Now, I heard this theory. So let me run it by you. I know you've heard it before as well. that Stern did this because production is so far behind and there's so many back orders that they possibly decided, let's do this and let's let the dealers set the price so they can actually make some money off of some games because your guys aren't getting paid until games ship. And right now, games aren't shipping very fast. I could honestly see that. Like they're throwing their distribution network a bone here. Like, okay, well, land some whales and get some quick cash in, and a lot of it will get to be profit to you guys in order to kind of help smooth the fact that you're not actually making as much as pinball. It's weird because pinball has spiked so much since the pandemic started, but ironically the distributors are making less money because their production is so much slower than it used to be. That is a good point. And I could see that. I could see that theory holding up a bit. The only thing that would conflict with that theory would be if they're not setting an MSRP, they don't know what dealers are going to price them at. I can tell you. Can I tell you? I think I can tell you that the price of the game cost to dealers was substantially more than a typical game is, whether it's pro, premium, LE. This was a very high-priced game to dealers. But with what the going rates are right now, there was substantial profit to make as well. So my argument would be they didn't know what dealers were going to sell these for. So maybe they thought, you know, estimated, I think that people can get 25 out of these, 30 out of these, 40. If they thought that, then yes, the price of what the cost was was set up to help the dealers out in efforts to say, hey, I know production is slow. You know, here you got Q4 going into holiday season. Here's our thank you. And Stern has done that before. We've seen a no MSRP on Beals Diamond. So there was that. So they've done this before. I'm thankful as a dealer that they do these every now and then because no other manufacturers do this. And some dealers, including myself, do sell spots available. So it did sell out immediately from Stern, of course. But there are available spots. But the available spots are $28,000 plus is what we're seeing. Purchasing prices on this game, listener, are averaging between $25,000 to $28,000 on the market right now. That's a lot of money, Dennis. Oh, yeah. No, it's not worth it. It's designed for whales. It's relative, but yes. No side of premium production. That's going to make a lot of people sad. It will. Because I know there have been people in on premiums for a really long time, and if I recall some of our prior discussions, that run keeps getting pushed. Yeah. I know personally that it is a very complex game to make for whatever reason. Apparently they found a way to make 199 of them whenever they want. Yeah. Bomb is high on that game. That's why they increased in the past. Takes a longer time to make these games. A lot of intricate parts in there, but it's what people want. People want Elvira. I'm surprised Elvira's holding up to this degree. It's a really fun game. It is. Do you think it's the Lyman effect, though? Or do you think it's the Nordman effect? No, it's about Nordman. Or do you think it is the theme? I don't think it's the theme. No, I mean, the campy theme works with what it is. I just think it's toy rich, and it's well integrated with the rule set, and it's fun to shoot. This is not like a flaw with it. I mean, it's not an L-win, you know, but tourney people I know like to play it. I mean, it's just a solid game. It just offers a lot of houses, cool. It's just a lot to do with it. So, yeah, it's a mix. I think it's the rules coupled with the layout's really approachable, and there are a lot of very obvious above-the-playfield toys. So I just think those three things together make Elvira what it is. Sure. Now, so I've got a couple spots left, and one of them is very special. It's a one-of-a-kind very special. We think 199 units is low. That's a low production. That is special. That is a low production. But your boy, Dennis, flipping out pinball, secured the one-of-a-kind Elvira's House of Horse 40th anniversary number 40.
    49:10
    I've got these. That's as unique as number 41. Dennis, no, it's not. Yes, it is. Number 40. It's the 40th anniversary.
    49:20
    That's big. It's only one. There's only one in the world. Huh. It's nine. Yeah, well, there's only 141 also.
    49:29
    Yeah, but if it was the 41st anniversary, you know. It's going to be the 41st anniversary next year. Like arguing with the philosophy teacher here.
    49:38
    So if you guys are interested. I'm sorry. Holy cow. You know what? I bet you could get 40K for that. That would match the 40. Oh, my gosh, Dennis. I'm not allowed to list pricing, but that kind of makes sense, especially. I'm allowed to do what I want because I'm not a shill. Yeah, especially if there is an Elvira topper that is impossible to get, but I make sure at Flippin' Out Pinball that this number 40 has that topper on it as well as a banner and other things. That's pretty interesting. Contact us for more details. Buy, buy, buy! We were educated a couple weeks ago at the Pinball Expo. During one of the seminars, George Gomez talked about Spike 3 now being in development. spike 3 system extra spiky and it's going to support extra spiky 4k video you're going where I'm going with this I think it's you want to keep your technology current and having spike 3 able to output 4k completely understand at the size of the screens they use I don't see the point in doing 4k it's like it's the same thing with When you get small enough, it's like you don't need 1080p anymore. 720p is going to do okay. Like I could see Mopimorphic with their big play field maybe getting something out of 4K. They were going to take advantage of the, you know. Side note, why haven't they had an upgrade kit for 4K? Well, again, given what they've done with the, and I've not asked Jerry, my assumption has always been given what's been done with the art and animations, I mean, it's not like watching 4K. We're not watching 4K movies on the play field, so you don't need it. It's like, what's going to be, when you think about Heist or Lexi or whatever, like, is the graphics going to magically get better because it's 4K? It wouldn't. So you'd have to actually invest even more in the quality of your output to take advantage. I think it's probably a waste, quite frankly. I think it's smart they don't go 4K.
    51:32
    Plus, I'm assuming initially, as long ago as they came out with the P3, the 4K systems were so much more expensive back then. Absolutely. But I think it's getting close to being that time, especially as they're continuing to develop with third parties. You want that animation, any of that video stuff. I think you want, especially for motion as well, and crispness. I think 4K. But that's about FPS. I mean, most 4K outputs are only 30 FPS. It would be better. It would be better to go 1080p with 60 FPS. Yes, it would. But is there not? I thought there was. We were getting some, like, 4K or 8K stuff with 60.
    52:10
    Oh, I'm sure there's capabilities in some systems and such, but I don't know how many people. Again, I just don't. It's just pinball. We normally have static art on play fields, and the screens are so small. They're not going to exploit it properly. That's my thought. Jerry, go with the ball. If they want to be able to do it, no problem. But I'm telling you, given what they're doing right now, you would be dumping so much. I mean, you'd basically be saying the game is now on the back box. I don't know if you saw, but people are paying the same price for an LE for an SE Plus because of a topper. So if people want to... That's because they didn't know about the PPS SE Plus Epsilon. If people want a 4K... Wait, and C edition. They want the best. Put the 4K in there, Jerry. C edition. Or 8K is going to be here before you walk in. I'm probably wrong. It's probably great. I don't know. I don't know enough about it. But Spike 3 is in development. I'm completely with you here, Dennis, because I thought to myself, on that screen, it's not going to matter. And I'm kind of a screen snob. Ooh, my scores are in 4K. Yeah, in cinema snob, but 4K is not going to matter on that screen. However, however, maybe 4K would matter on a larger screen.
    53:21
    Well, here's my, and others may, people can write into the pinballnetwork at gmail.com to say what they think. But here's my baseline that I follow. The point at which you go from 720p to 1080p is a 32-inch screen. 32 and below, 720. Above that, 1080. So given the shape of the back box, just how big are they going to go? Wait a minute. I can see them justifying 1080. I can't see them justifying 4K. Even the whole thing was a screen. Yeah, but you can't tell the difference when rendering a video on your phone much smaller than 32-inch, the difference between a 720 and a 1080? Nope, I don't. I don't notice it. I think you think you can. I think that's a good argument. I think you're like those wine people that think they can tell the different wines, and then you blindfold them and you realize they can't even tell red from white when they can't look. I can tell between a Coke and a Pepsi. I can tell you that much. Well, they taste very different. Yes, they do. It's not like wine where it's all the same. I'm just saying we sell Spike 1 with a DMD. We sell Spike 2 with a larger display. We see Spike 3 with 4K. There's plenty of other stuff besides support. And they just know it will be able to – I agree it should support 4K because then it gives them an option. I think you've got a bigger screen coming is what I'm saying. But, okay, I don't know about that. What I think Spike 3 is going to do is probably have things like the Wi-Fi capabilities integrated into the node board, probably some other features that they realize. Maybe they want – maybe we'll finally have direct video output that streamers could access. I mean, there's just some other upgrades that they might want to go ahead and do, not to mention faster systems, faster processing, more storage for more video assets. That's a big one, yeah. Especially if they want to support 4K. They're going to want to up, because as you know, having rendered so many videos, when you go from one resolution to another, it just dumps a tremendous amount of file size into it. Absolutely, it does. Even YouTube is just now catching up to that. So I'm glad they're doing Spike 3, if for no other reason than I think you want a faster system anyway. We're still a couple years away from it. Sure. My point, what I think you may see and what I would love to see, you ever remember Jack Danger doing those renderings of Stern machines on his own time where the displays were height-wise the same, but they were more wide-screen? No, I don't remember this. No, I don't. Yeah, you guys will have to pull that up on Deadflip's social media stuff. Whenever he threw together and mocked stuff up, there was this display that I always thought was so captivating because it was kind of almost that ultra-wide screen, but it was the same height. Like the Deep Root?
    56:02
    Kind of, but you keep pretty much the same size of the Stern Translight, but instead of the ratio, you go much more. I don't know if it's like a 244. It goes much wider. Okay, so it's basically the same height, but just wider across the back box. Double the width. Oh, okay. And that's what you think they're going to do? That would make sense for 4K. Hmm. I mean, 4K is a specific resolution. Would those dimensions actually suit the 4K resolution? Because 4K is actually a dimension. It's a height and a width.
    56:31
    And I think it would be closer, too, than current. That would make a lot more sense, sure. Over the past two weeks, I've noticed that many people, Dennis and listener, have tried the Insider Connected now. And it is my belief and observation that the community is very much embracing this. Yeah, I saw a lot of people were really excited about it. I'm still thinking about the giant screen. You know, I hope they move the speakers up to the top of the back box. No, Bally. I want them to change the back box shape at this point. I think we need the premier style of speakers up top. That's closer to people's heads than one. There's speakers in so many directions. You can build casings inside. It's not a big deal. They can still fit those damn speakers. No, no, I think we want them up top. Don't. I think we need a new shape of a back box. Black Rose. People are embracing Insider Connected, and we're going to be waiting for kits, though. We're still waiting to start shipping these to locations. Remember, locations get those Insider kits first, those retrofit kits. Homeowners are going to start receiving those, listener, in 2022. I think the pricing them at $200 will make a lot of homeowners decide to get it. I still think that's an introductory price, though. Be careful, people. And that may be the goal, but it could spike interest in the system where people are like, okay, $200, I can swing that. Especially if they don't own a lot of games. By the summer, you're going to see a $299 price tag on that. Huh? Well, that's what I'm thinking. They don't have it available for Star Trek yet. I also noticed that, remember, Godzilla was the only one of the games coming out of the factory with that Insider Connected. I'm here to tell you the recent update is they had a small run of Iron Maiden Premiums. Those, in fact, did come with built-in Insider Connected. Hmm. So they're rolling out there, too. I know that the before Expo, there was a couple tournaments in Interium up there. People were, that's what they were doing. They were chasing those Insider Connected. They were trying to get the Expo badge-specific Insider Connected achievements.
    58:27
    So far, so good there, my homie Gomi. One of the things that we're going to really struggle with in 2022, more info to be released here soon, is I'm really worried about the back orders. It's been an issue for quite a while now, I know. I think it's going to hit us in the face in 2022. Ouch. Smack us. Not my sensitive face. Yes, I think it is going to. I just don't want to have to be the bearer of bad news all the time. So we're going to let this. That's the fate of a distributor. Yeah, but I'm the only one with a platform to speak.
    58:59
    That's because you always choose not to have platforms. I know. We'll continue that developing story. But patience is what it's going to have to take for 2022.
    59:09
    Jersey Jack pinball. Speaking of patience, it's been too long, and I love doing this. They had a big booth at the Chicago Pinball Expo. They did. Love their setup. I wouldn't want to do that, but I love that setup. Your setup was good with your Deadpool glowy glow thing. Thank you. I felt really good about that as well. And, yeah, we brought a lot to the table. But Jersey Jack hit it really big. They even showed up. We had a flipping out Epic Pinball Expo tailgate party. I don't know if you heard about that. You were invited. What the hell? It was really far away. It was. And I had a late dinner with some Kansas City folks that day, so I wasn't actually out. They threw us out of the restaurant at 9. With Terry Wing? Oh. No, I had it with Gordon Brown and Ruth and then Tony and I. Gordon and me? Gordon is one of the area players and his wife. But he was like, there's this Chinese restaurant that was really good. It's actually the best Chinese restaurant I've ever been to. We talked about that over dinner Saturday. We did. Yeah. Over a dinner of not Chinese. Deep dive. And then, anyway, I mapped it. I was like, okay, it's going to take about 45 minutes just to get there. And they were supposed to end at 11. So I thought, okay, we'll only be there for maybe an hour. And then I've got another almost hour drive back. And I was like, nope, going to bed. I don't blame you. We had a blast, though, at the Epic Tailgate party. I heard. I heard from Amanda Hamilton. She had to run the mic for like three hours. Oh, thank you, Amy, for doing that. Thanks for everybody that showed up. And thanks to, really a big thanks to Steve Beattie, Bill Webb, and Courtney Bowman for setting that all up on behalf of Flippin' Out. So that was really amazing. And an extra special thanks to Jersey Jack Pinball. They were there. The whole crew. We had Steve Ridge and Tim Cromwell. Eric Menya was there. Keith Johns was there. Brett Abizona was there. Peter Dorn was there. Was Joe Katz there? Was I missing? I think Joe Katz was there. Yeah. Was Joe there? I don't know. I'm asking. Joe, I was drinking. I don't remember. Yes, Joe was there. Was he? Maybe you just imagined he was there It's hard because I hung out with him a lot at Expo So I don't know if he was there It all blends It's been a while Speaking of achievements A lot of people playing those achievements as well as Scorebit They had a nice display there That's free And to pay for it, it's free free And did you know that the Scorebit achievement stuff In Jersey Jack games is now compatible With the Hobbit and with the Wizard of Oz I did know that Wow, that's awesome. It's all games now, but what? Pirates?
    61:40
    Just waiting for their Final Wizard mode. Not nudging you there, Kiefer, nothing. I think other people are helping with that. We'll get the whole team on that one.
    61:49
    Steve Ritchie was at the tailgate party. New designer over at Jersey Jack Pinball. And he was very Steve Ritchie.
    61:58
    Oh, okay. Yeah, he's always been sort of a tell-it-like-it-is in these discussion formats. You have to go back and watch that VOD of that stream because he, I saw Ken Cromwell beside him squirming. He's like a squirm.
    62:13
    Ken is a, let's keep everything at peace. That's right. He did not like that. And Steve is all, no peace. Yeah, Steve was like saying he hated working on the Led Zeppelin game because he couldn't get Stairway to Heaven in there. Was that why he didn't put anything in it? Oh, yeah, he even said he was like, he said, quote, or he said he, quote, had this nice design for a stairway. But then later said he just couldn't get it implemented. I'm just now imagining like this, like an escalator where you're just watching the ball go up an escalator.
    62:50
    I guess escalator to heaven doesn't have the same ring to it. You're an escalator to heaven. Watch your shoelaces. Yeah, yeah. and her shoes trapped within, and soon it will chew up on her shins, and the blood will go spurting across the floor. Oh, the one-time crocs make sense. Have you ever seen anybody get their shoelaces caught up in one of those things? No, no, no. I've always wanted to see it happen just to see how strong it was. That's so cool. I know. Maybe not a kid because they're most susceptible. Yeah, maybe not a kid. They're most susceptible to being sucked into the misdemeanor. And older people, it would never happen because they're only Velcro. But somebody that's able-bodied to be able to fight that fight of an escalator steer. I'm just imagining one of your kids getting their shoelace stuck afterward, and they're like, what are you doing? It's you. And they're going, I learned it from you, Dad. I learned it from watching you.
    63:52
    I have no foot, Papa. What do you think it would do? And then you're mad because you have to loan them one of your limited edition Jordans and they're walking around with one awesome shoe and one shoe that was the same as all the other kids have to wear. No, they would scuff those up. Do you think that it would – surely nowadays escalator systems have a blockage, a stop, an emergency stop thing if something gets – I think there's a button on both of the top and the bottom. You have to rely on the gas station button? Well, I just, I think it stops once the shoe's stuck in the gear works, too. Right? But what if said foot is in shoe? I mean, it's not a garbage disposal. It's supposed to, it's not supposed to chop things up. The escalator is not a chopper, so. Okay. I think it's fine. I think it might bind. That might be a strong motor to lift all those people up. All right. So the bottom line is, Steve, he didn't get to do his stairway. That'd be funny if he had done the stairway and there wasn't a stairway to heaven. Yeah, he was sitting on a stern. but to be fair I spoken with some stern people and they not as public but there some some mutual feelings there Well you know I always heard it could be difficult to work with Steve Well, absolutely. And you've heard it's difficult to work with me as well, but you always refute those questions. Well, no, that's true. Well, not always. Not always. Sometimes it's difficult. I'm snuggly. Oh, I love this next point with George Jack Pinball. I'm really surprised that the production of GNR LEs has been showing some life lately.
    65:28
    They've actually really been starting to ship at a better pace, even with Wonka LEs, too. Oh, yeah, because they have that second lineup now. Wonka LEs in stock right now, and I love that. So I was really impressed with the pacing right now of that production. Knock on wood, hopefully. But what does that mean for the next game? You guys, we're still in spring, if I were to guess. Did you talk with Brett Abbas? I did. So does he know pinball? He does. He's a big fan. Okay. He's a big pinball fan. That's why they bought the business, because him and his dad were just so into pinball. Hmm. Okay. And if I was a billionaire and I was that into pinball as I am, you're damn right I'd be trying to make my own machines. No, he's in it.
    66:15
    That's when you would go and buy pinball adventures. Oh, wow. That's a whole other story. Where's Punny Factory? I didn't have any Punny Factory updates at Expo. I was at Expo wondering where Spooky Pinball. Do they normally show at Expo? No, they don't. There's a thing. You see, I think there's something. Here's my theory. We get to speculate on puns. Theorize it. I don't have to ask anyone. I'll just throw it out there. I think something happened between Spooky leadership and Expo leadership years ago, and they don't like each other, or at least Spooky doesn't like Expo. That's actually correct. That's not speculation. That is correct. Oh. Well, it's not as fun as it is. I know. It is. It was when Mike Pacek was back there, and there was back and forth. Yeah, but Mike's not been involved for several years now. Maybe it has to do with Burke, too. I don't know. But Spooky doesn't go to Expo. They will not go to Expo. They usually teamed up with Pinball Life to have their own thing, but Pinball Life didn't do anything this year. We did not see a Spooky sighting at Pinball Life. Well, I heard that the Expo people kidnapped one of the Spooky children. Whoa. The one that was named Carp. Squirt. Carp. No, carp. Carp. And carp was never seen again. Squirrel bug and carp. You touch every part there. That's good. No, so the spooky pinball wasn't there. Spooky pinball has been interesting as of late. They're still cranking out machines. They're getting beat up a little bit about coding on Halloween and Ultraman. Yeah, I was. Well, I didn't expect spooky to be there. I was hoping that. And I know JJ with Game Exchange had one up in, like, some suite. but like there wasn't one on the floor. Why didn't you go to the JJ suite? Because I don't know him. So I would have. I don't just go into people's hotel rooms and be like, yo, do you know who I am? I'm Dennis. Let me play Halloween so I can judge it. Well, I did my patented donkey kick to alert everyone. Yeah, but everyone knows you. You're like a pinball ambassador. So are you, Dennis Creasel? No, I am not. You've got characters and shit. I don't. I've got Dr. Phil. Yeah. Well, I've got Dr. Phil and I've got Terry and I've got. Oh, yeah, Terry. I like Terry. So, yeah, spooky pinball. There is some interesting stuff going on with spooky pinball right now. I think over the next six months we'll hear all kinds of things. Do you know that sound you can hear when people take a gulp and you get the gulp sort of sound when they're nervous about something? Yep. I think a lot of – it seems to me that a lot of people online are doing the gulp about the current games. I just picture Jim Carrey and Liar Liar guzzling that water and then he just sits down and says, come on. Yeah, spooky Pim. Speaking of, I feel like something's going on there. Bo and Karen's no longer with Spooky Team.
    68:56
    Now, I knew that, because it wasn't in the listing, that he wasn't working on Halloween and Ultraman. I didn't know if that was just, like, giving him up. Yeah, but they kind of sounded like he was still helping, lending a helping hand. Well, I wonder if he was maybe still doing stuff with Rick and Morty or maybe the next game, whenever that is. And that's not to say they can't go back and do something with him in the future, either. Sure, sure. I want you guys as listeners to hear this. I'm going to quote Bowen Cairns on Pinside talking about this relationship. He said, quote, second, I no longer work with spooky pinball. The first time I saw the layout, the art and the rules for Halloween and Ultraman was the first time you saw it publicly. Now, that's a statement indicating that he was not he was not included. Well, his first sentence was, I no longer work with spooky pinball. So why would they show it to him if he wasn't working with them? Okay, you're saying if he wasn't working with them prior to even... That was, I think the second sentence is merely saying, hey, yeah, I no longer work with Spooky and Ball. As proof of this, I saw all the stuff about it when you guys did. Continuing the quote, he said, after it was revealed, I gave Spooky some advice on what they could or should do with these games based on video. I have not played either game at all, and I have not seen my suggestions implemented. What they do with my advice is entirely their decision. I'm not involved in any way. That is not what I would have preferred, but that is what they chose. I will always root for Spooky to succeed, and I am grateful for the opportunity that Charlie and the rest of the Spooky team gave me to work with them on Alice Cooper and Rick and Morty. So this is very definitive that he's saying he was given the we no longer need you thing. Yeah, this statement tells me three things. One, this makes it really clear that he's not with Spooky anymore, and he wasn't involved in the development of Halloween and Ultraman. two it makes it clear that he wanted to stay with spooky pinball and they chose to end doing it and three he seems to clearly want to make it clear that he is in no way responsible with how this game is turning out and i think he's suggesting that reading between the lines i'm getting the impression that he is not a fan of what the direction this game is going in correct if you watch some of i mean if you're a super geek like me and you watch behavioral patterns You see what he comes up and what he doesn't, and that'll tell you a lot, too.
    71:16
    Just saying. Where's David Van Ness, the animator? I know the name, but I don't know why I know that name. Oh, he was like an integral part to this team. He was the one that moved from Australia over here. He was in Texas talking about moving to Benton. Remember, he was talking about developing. He was supposed to be the designer of their next game before this teamwork approach. I wonder if the pandemic impacted anything. Maybe.
    71:43
    But his animation and some of his animation work on Alice Cooper were second to none. It was fantastic. I don't know. You don't think he animated Halloween? He did not. We know that he did not. So there are some changes going on at Spooky, and we'll see in the future what comes of it all.
    72:02
    But they're pushing games out. Pushing games out. They're making changes to games. We'll see what happens. Speaking of pushing games, American Pinball should be pushing out a brand new game called Legends of Valhalla. Partnering up with Riot Pinball. Scott and Frank over there. Yeah, yeah. Because they announced it a while ago. I mean, we were talking about Valhalla for a while.
    72:24
    And they also announced that Steve Bowden has joined the team. Yeah. I said hey to Steve at Expo, and he seemed really, really excited. Yeah. So I'm glad he – I really was skeptical that – I didn't know what company would be wanting to pick up another – though he's not in doing rules. He's doing something quite a bit different. Which surprised me. But I think that they will utilize him. Josh Kugler and him kind of have the same mindset of creativity when it comes to rules and taking risks. Well, and it made more sense at that point to me as well because at first I was thinking – I was keeping him in the box of rules. And so they clearly were thinking Brodner. Like, no, no, there's other things he could definitely do in pinball if he wants to work in pinball. Yeah, yeah. And he gives them a way to get out of Texas.
    73:11
    Too hot down there. No, never too hot. Oh, yes, no. I would. I like to think when I'm retired, I'll move way up north, maybe the Yukon Territory. I can see you with some sled dogs. Isn't that where David Dennis lives? Somewhere up there. No, I think he lives where there are people.
    73:26
    It's all north of what matters, so I don't know. Oh! You take that back. Quebec will yell at you in French. America.
    73:36
    Okay, so AP announcing Steve Bowden. They had a seminar at the Expo. Dave Fix, also a coordinator for the Expo. He was doing a talk with the team in American Pinball to the audience. Talked about another game, maybe, from Scott and Frank with Wright Pinball at American Pinball in the future. Dave Fix, I was, man, we were busting chops, me and him, at Expo. It was fun. Do you think we'll get a Wooley at American Pinball? Do you think we'll get a Wrath of Olympus? Based on this, Dennis, were they virtually changed nothing in this game for production? Maybe they're looking for another game they don't have to do much to. Hmm. My guess would be Wrath of Olympus would be the most likely. Okay. Instead of developing Sherlock Holmes or something for them. Nordman's good. No, I think Sherlock's going to happen. Obviously, I don't think Riot's going to be involved with it. You don't think so? Yeah. I don't see Norton doing that. Why not? I just don't. It's not his jam, baby.
    74:39
    Why don't you believe in my abilities? Sherlock Holmes can have ramps for days, and Watson, he will be a scoop. I still want to know who Watson is. Watson's got to be somebody. Maybe Watson becomes Steve Babcock. Don't you mean Robin, not Watson?
    74:54
    Oh, yeah. You're mixing your heroes. I'm mixing. Sorry. I am the Silver Ball Knight. I don't have anything to do with the hounds from Bakersfield or wherever.
    75:06
    They're busy. Why are those hounds baking pies? It doesn't make sense. They're dogs. Bakersfield is in California.
    75:13
    Oh, the hounds. Wow, what a reference. I think Steve Bowden could be the Batman. Or the Robin. Fuck this whole analogy.
    75:22
    What? No, Steve. Don't take my cow. That's not for you. We learned about Legends of Valhalla a little bit more, and the biggest mechanical change from the Riot Legends of Valhalla to the AP, is just a change from the upper center post to a magnet. That's it. Okay. I was curious if there was anything. I didn't know there was anything. They talked about the Thor's hammer. It's like for the magnet Thor's hammer. You use that third flipper. It's kind of like a smart bomb. You hit it in the hammer. It looks like it hits that bowl, and then it freezes. Yeah, picture the magnet in the top of Oktoberfest, the top of Hot Wheels. It's kind of their trademark thing now. Yeah, we're American Pinball. We kind of do magnets. Yeah, it's like a thing. I'm good with magnets. I like magnets. I like to do magnets, unless they overheat. Yeah. Godzilla Pro? Unless they make your game way too easy, like roller games. Yeah, I'm still in that thing. Oh, you made so many people mad. But I'm still right. That's what sucks. You made so much, but there's anger out there now. I'm still right. Anger leads to hate. It needs to be a magnet above every flipper, like four magnets aligning each flipper in the bottom, so it tells you, hey, ready to hit the left ramp? Flip. So stupid.
    76:38
    Sorry, Steve Ritchie. Dave Fick's throwing some punches, as he always does. He's made a mark because of these ignorant statements at times. Yeah, although I do want to ask real quick. Do you know, did Riot, did they originally develop on P3 Rock? Because if so, that would make the code transition. See, I don't think they run fast, but I don't know. I know that Kugler had a lot of time to transfer over some of that stuff to systemize it for people. I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I'm sorry. It's not an important point. Just something that popped in my head. So anyway, you're talking about David Fixson and controversial statements. Yeah, some ignorant statements. He did a little jab there where he said, quote, we don't do cheap translates at American Pinball. They gave away a back glass as one of the giveaways or something. I totally misread that at first. and construed it as he meant they did expensive translates.
    77:32
    Okay, this is a lot more of a slight now that I don't know why I took it that way. It's like I considered those categories. There's those cheap, like, paper-type translates like what Premiere did in the early 90s, and then there's, you know, like, fancy translates that are hard to tear. We don't do the cheap translates. We do the thick stuff. We do high-quality, double-print translates. Glossy. You know, vinyl and stuff. They do some nice back glasses of American Pinball, I remember. Now they're going the mirrored route. Thank God. It's about time. Not that I pushed that six months ago when we were in a meeting with them. But they need that. That's nice. But why are you sitting on Translice? Who cares? They talk about wanting to release future games in a similar manner to Love, to Legends of Valhalla, putting games on location, not having a sizzle reel, not informing dealers. I don't know if that last part was in there. Just kind of throwing it out there. I don't know it was an interesting idea and it kind of reminded me of when Stern did that thing with Stranger Things where they showed the formal announcements, it was just those were ready to go I thought the Stern approach was better I did as well and I think objectively it's better I don't think it's a coincidence that Dave Fix wanted to do a couple of things he owns Pocketeer Billiards, hundreds of games on location, so we wanted to put him on location. Maybe that's just a wild coincidence.
    78:58
    He's part of Expo and that's where it's played for the first time publicly the following week. Maybe just a coincidence. But I think it's more convenient for him rather than this master plan of, yes, I like the way we rolled this out, but I don't think it's the right way to roll out games. I like having games in location initially. That makes sense, but do you think they would have done better had they marketed this game with more information out there? I think so. Some media. I mean, they sold out until they up their position. Sold out. By another 44%. Sold out until you sell out. Because we didn't. That was the weirdest statement. It was like, hey, we didn't mean for this to be limited. And then they just upped the limit. But it's still a limit. I don't know. I don't understand. They're not going to sell any standard models. They shouldn't. I would just cut it off to 500. I'm going to keep upping TL LeBron. Yeah, they're not sold out through. We've got spots. We've got spots if you want the deluxe. I can't wait to play it. I was at the expo across from them as a neighbor with our booth, and I didn't have a chance to go over there and play. I was really upset about that. It's shot well. I didn't play it enough to really get a feel for the rules. Middle ramp gate? That's all I hear about. That's what I heard. Okay. I mean, maybe that's where all the points are, but layout-wise, there's stuff to do. It's all laid out. Shout out to 2PN's very own Jeff Tieles for voicing Odin and other characters in that game. Yeah, they didn't ask me to voice Odin. Why don't they ask either of us to voice anything?
    80:33
    I'm falling into flipper code territory here where I'm just going to write it off. I thought you didn't want any silly flipper codes. I don't. And because it was sour grapes. Have I not done enough? No, I don't want your flipper code.
    80:50
    Don't feel bad. I don't have a flipper code either. T-shirt's going to say, fuck flipper codes. That's what I'm going to do. Yeah. You heard it here.
    80:58
    I don't want to voice over anything in the game either. I'm done. Finished. Sorry, Punny Factory. I wonder if I could have voiced the factory. Clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk. Clunk. You know what would be interesting? If next year we have the homebrew section at Pinball Expo, we know that American Pinball has recently announced what they're calling an American Dream. Dave, if that was your idea, that was actually really good. They're doing a promotion for Homebrew Games, Dennis, that next year, whoever shows up, they will potentially put into production one of these Homebrew Games at American Pinball. Now, one would think, oh, this is a fantastic idea. I do. But you had a really interesting take on this that I very much respect, and it made me second guess this whole promotion. Care to share a bit of that? I mean, I can. And, yeah, I was on the, I guess it was just another pinball stream with Becca and Jordan along with Joel, the host. And, yeah, we were talking about this. And I, yeah, I don't, I'm not a fan of the idea. And the reason is that, to me, it's so akin to what I've heard so many of the artists I know talk about, where companies will say, hey, let's run a contest or a promotion, and we're going to get people to come up with art for our game or our product or whatever, and you submit it, and then we're going to pick one. And, yeah, the one that, quote, unquote, wins is going to be featured, probably get paid, all of that. And everyone else basically did design work for free.
    82:30
    And I don't, like, if you want, if American Pinball wants to just go around the homebrew section at Expo every year, look at them and maybe go, hey, let's pull a TNA and let's send one of these into production. That I totally understand. But running it as a contest, to me, it felt like they're just outsourcing the design work so they don't have to pay designers. That's how it feels to me. True free freelancing.
    82:54
    Yeah. It's like, it's not even Fiverr where you're giving them a few bucks for a product. It's, here you go. Now, I've heard some others having, you know, concern, like homebrewers talking about, you know, will this divide, like homebrewers are really collaborative if it's a contest. That's a close-knit group, yeah. Yeah. Is this going to drive people to be more secretive? I mean, I'm not a home brewer, so in a way I don't really care about that part. It's important to that audience, obviously, because it could change their entire social structure. But to me, this often seems to backfire. I remember in the chat, I don't remember who it was, but someone felt I was being very short-sighted on it, and maybe I am. But that's my take, and I will say after that video went out on YouTube, I have had other people contact me privately saying, totally agree. This would not fly. It happens a lot in these other industries, and it gets ridiculed constantly when they do it to artists, and that's what this is. I think it's a really good point that I just wasn't considering. I was overlooking that, but once you discussed that, I thought, you know what? He's right. Of course. You know what? I would want somebody to do all of this work for me to cherry pick and not have to pay any of them for it. Go ahead. Do that for me as well. Like, yeah, I get it. I actually get it. I wonder if I don't get a flipper code. I can't voice a game. What if I show up and take the crown for that American dream next year?
    84:16
    Now, have they guaranteed that someone will get made? No, they were very choosy with the way they said that. See, that would drive. I mean, they were guaranteed. I think some people are looking at it as a guarantee. It was a chance. Imagine if it turns out like how it did when you wanted shirt ideas, and you've got all the shirt ideas for TPN, and you're like, these all suck, and you didn't run any of them. You didn't run any of them. And then we had people running and going how hard they worked on them, and I was like, that's why I don't do this stuff. Yeah, they worked hard on them. Some of them were good. They just weren't what I was looking for. It wasn't your vision. Yeah, I think we're going in a different direction. But if – Afraid we have to part ways.
    84:58
    But he said that their group would vote. There would be a voting process and the public would vote as well. That concerns me as well, because what doesn't stop somebody from like a me going in there with a homebrew? I won't mention other media creators have done homebrew, but me going in there with the homebrew and like a popularity contest trying to win this thing. I mean, it's a good point. My assumption, I mean, if they're if American Pinball is smart about it, they'll do like the the the video game awards style. It's going to be like the public vote gets away 10%. Oh, very interesting, Dennis. Remember you said that. Just remember you said how smart that was. Well, no, in the sense of, no, let me clarify, Zach, because you like to latch on to these things. Smart in the sense that they make it powerless. The public vote's a joke. Honestly, it would be better for them not to have the public involved at all. Eh, 20% is not a joke. 20% is substantial.
    86:03
    No, not really. Tell that to politicians every four years. That's a big piece. Politicians are entirely publicly elected. It's just a question of turnout. My argument is 20% is a big piece regardless. 20% out of 100% is a loser. Is that a loser? The who? The her.
    86:23
    We'll see what Expo brings next year. Speaking of Expo, we had a good time. A lot of memories were made. headlines, Cactus Canyon, Love, Elvira 40th, Jurassic Park, the pin being on display, Sonic Spinball, flipping out tailgate, Pinball Olympics was a big headline for this year's Expo. I think overall, I know I heard your EGP, you know, the ups and downs of Expo, and I agree. But overall, I think it was a success. I think it was a weird, weird, it was just an odd timing for something because here was one of the biggest shows coming back after a pandemic, which was going to feel weird and awkward, right? People wearing masks, they're not, what is going on? Then you have a new venue in which they're doing this longstanding show. You couple that together. It was going to feel funky, and it did feel funky. And there was some growing that they're going to have to do. But overall, I generally say it's my favorite show for a reason, and I'm looking forward to next year. Okay. Well, that's interesting. Yeah, I don't. It wasn't a big venue. Everything, to my knowledge, everything ran correctly. It was all except for the freaking $1,300 a day Wi-Fi if you wanted it for your booth. That is outrageous. And I buy thousands of dollar toppers. Like, come on, people. Don't go shove that up their ass. Like, that's stupid. There was a lot of good memories. I remember we've seen a Jason Fowler sighting with his co-host, Matt Kanan, who I paid $100 to go in the front fountain. It was like 20 degrees out. Oh, he was paid to do that? Yeah. That makes it make more sense. I said, hey, Matt, I'll give you $100 to go in. It was like 2 in the morning. I'll give you $100 to go sit in that fountain for a second. I thought that he would call me crazy, but he was like, all right. He was like, I would have done it for free, but whatever. He swam in it, did the whole shell shank redemption thing, and we got it on video. You'll have to check it out on YouTube. It was fantastic, but the hardest part was him standing outside two hours thereafter soaking wet. Well, we all bullshit. That was fun. Good memories. Hung out with a lot of people. Any bright memories? I signed a T-shirt, a Dennis Creason old twip podcast T-shirt. Yeah, I actually did not sign anything. Oh, nice. Which is good. I didn't bring my pens. I didn't sign any body parts this year. So that was a lot of pictures, no body parts. Yeah, I had a lot of people. I mean, it was nice to get to talk to a lot of people that you don't normally see. So there were a lot of people who would come up and ask me about the shows or just want to talk about something. I went around in the free play area and played games with people. I didn't go in the free play area. No, you were busy with your booth. No, I heard the games were. You were busy up in your room trying to process all those CCR orders that spontaneously came in. Oh, my gosh. What a mess. What a damn mess. Yeah, no, I mean, it was my first Expo, and it may very well be my last Expo, but it was interesting. You're just doing TPF? Like, what else is there? Well, I mean, I have to evaluate just how many pinball trips I want to do. And, well, it was nice to meet with a lot of people. There are a lot of other shows I've never tried that I might want to try instead of Expo. And TPF is so much better than Expo that it's difficult. It would be difficult for me to just setting aside because there are a lot of people I can meet at TPF, too, because it's it's got more people. The social aspect. I mean, if you're really into wanting to meet industry people and stuff, Chicago is definitely a place to go. And the food was better. Texas food's good. But I give the edge to Chicago. But I agree. And and the drive was actually even though it's the same distance or time to get to both for me. It's actually it was easier traveling in Chicago area than it was in Dallas. Holy cow. I can see it. The only thing, the new venue that bugs me is we had the restaurants to walk to during previous expos where you can at least hang out after 11 p.m. Yeah, I'd heard that it was better for going to venues and walking distance at the Westin. Sure, or at least the freaking hotel bar at the Westin stayed open. Like, this bar, if you do not, was closed at like 11 p.m. So by the time the vendor hall closed and I was done working, I was ready to hang out. Well, no, there's nowhere you could walk with people. There was nowhere the bar was closed. There's no food you can get. I'm like, it's a ghost town around here. So I hated that. I mean, part of the thing is like, and again, with Texas, I never get in the main facility. But there are at least three other large hotels that are within three blocks. All easy walks. And so if I want to hang out, it's not a big deal. I had to drive everywhere in Chicago. And so I was like, okay. And I don't drink much anyway, but it's like, okay, well, I won't be drinking because I'm driving to and from all of these events. And, you know, it was three miles to get to the facility, so I couldn't walk it easily. And it was just like, okay, it's just like, yeah, I wish I wasn't in the car quite as much because it just kind of got tedious. And, you know, no food truck, so it's like if you wanted to get anything that wasn't the concession stand you had. And, again, there was good food nearby, but it was still all, like, two interstates over, so you had to drive. We had a nice dinner at Lou Malnage, the original Lou Malnage. That waitress was a saint. She truly was, because we had some really drunken people. Not either one of us, I might add. No, no. Not that my wife didn't have something. And not, like, in a, like, belligerent. Yeah, no, they weren't mean or anything. She had to put up with the drunk jokes. High decibels. She did it pretty well.
    92:03
    She's like, ah, we get it all the time here. And as a vendor, I will say, as a vendor, I was really happy with the way things were set up for me as a distributor. We liked our – at first I was worried about our booth location because Ken Cromwell was like, dude, they stuck baby in a corner, like you're way back in the corner by the restrooms. And I'm like, oh, no. And then I got there, but they facilitated some stuff where we could move some stuff around. We were right by AP and the homebrew. So it worked out well. We were happy with it. We got a lot of great feedback. Thank you to everybody that hung out at the booth, helped with the booth. I cannot express my thank you from Nicole and I for helping with all of that. And I think we made an impact with our booth. We didn't have many games. We had the Pro Premium and LE of Godzilla and a Wonka LE. George Fisher setting up his Christopher Nolan-esque streaming setup was fantastic. We had a TPN booth. but I had a lot of fun, and I think that maybe we see a TPN booth at TPF this year. I think overall I did like how the vendor hall approach is with Chicago over the TPF sort of scatting everywhere. The maze, yeah. Yeah, the whole maze thing. I think the problem with TPF is honestly they're too big for that facility at this point. I think so, too. They could go bigger. They could go, especially with the post-pandemic stuff, you kind of got to spread people. And maybe it'll be lighter here in March because there'll still be people not traveling as much. I don't know because most of the vaccine deployments now, basically everyone over five.
    93:34
    We did have the, just of note, the 2021 Midwest Gaming Classic was this past weekend. I did not go. Dennis did not go. Had friends that went. I went a couple of years ago, but it was just too much to have to turn around and do that again. It's always hard when you have conventions right against each other in dates. Shout out to Tom Graff for streaming all the Expo stuff in the name of TPN as well as Fox City. So thank you for that. My next show, Dennis, is in Cincinnati, December 3rd through 5th. Oh. I've heard good things about Cincinnati. Probably from Chuck. Chuck Wirt. He's the one that co-heads that thing up and he does a spectacular job. It was started out, but they've only been through two or three shows. So it's an early youngster, but it's building up to be just a fun, just a fun laid back hangout of a place. So we'll be there with a big booth. Come see us at Pinsonetti. Alright, last thing before we get into the glory of Pimbalm. Martyr Trends is Haggis Pinball. I wanted to give people a little update. They've been having a social media friendly lately, posting updates almost blog-like pictures of production in the factory. The Celts, I think, they're ending their production games. They're almost done with that and moving on to the Fathom remake, which is, thankfully, about time kind of thing. Yeah, wasn't their original expectation to get those going out in the summer. July 1st is what they were aiming to start production on Fathom, and then the entire continent was shut down. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they have good, just like many, they have good reasons for, I know a lot of people are, I think probably because there weren't very many kelps made, so it's like, this is a company that's manufactured, but it hasn't manufactured much. We know that if there's four to five times as many Fathoms, how long is that going to take if kelps are existing? Right, right. But, man, attention to detail over there. I don't know if you've been following any of that, Dennis, but some of these attention to detail things are, I think, going to resonate really well with the states over here and probably around the world, but it's a collector market anymore, and I think this is going to really help Haggis. Yeah, we're a very detail-oriented country. That's why we can go and get a deep dish with the sauce on top of the pizza, and people are, like, cool with that. What I was alluding to is we're kind of silly that we'll pay for those details, and we make very important some of the details because we are so privileged in our culture to pay attention to things that ultimately don't matter. Oh. I was thinking it was more along the lines of, hey, you know, Haggis, what you could do? You could take your ultimate edition of Fathom, strip everything but one item out, and then have the Fathom Standard Plus and charge the same amount as your ultimate version. Hell, you can put a couple more buttons on there. That's what we have discovered as a country. Add buttons. I want buttons. courtesy of the Final Round Pinball Podcast, rules designer Martin Robbins did announce that the Fathom 2.0 code structure that he's been working on is complete. There's some tweaking. There's some adjustments that need to be made, balancing. Sure. But the whole structure is complete. It's done. Awesome. That's great to hear. I'm trying to get a Haggis game over at Pinson Addy. I don't know if that's going to happen, but I'd like to get a Keltz or a Fathom proto over there. I'm hoping, and I haven't asked Martin this, but I've been hoping that, like, once every, say, 100 times the ball drains, I want the audio package on the enhanced version to go, mer-man.
    96:50
    Mer-man. There's got to be a way to code that. Mer-man. Just like, it's just out of the blue. People are like, what the hell? Is that from Zoolander? They're like, yes, it is. Oh, I wonder what the rights to that one statement were for. And every 100 times when the ball goes into the shooter lane, I want to say, Beauty is the essence of wetness. The essence of beauty. You know what? I think next year, you and I co-collab, and for the American Dream, we're going to have a Fathom remake reskinned into just Zootlander's Merman.
    97:28
    We take it home And they would have to build it They were men I'd be willing to reach out to Ben to do call outs Jackpot The uh What is this? The Malaysian Prime Minister I can see there's a hurry up
    97:55
    So much there. So much. What is this, a pinball for ants? He's absolutely right. I'll get Will Ferrell, too. Why not? Let's go ahead and get Owen Wilson, too. You can dare lick my balls.
    98:12
    Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. You heard that cue from Dennis. It means it's his favorite pinball segment. Speaking of, we've got award shows coming up with the industry awards, potentially, Twippies recently being announced. I wonder if we're going to see any additional changes to the media components of this. I don't know about you, Dennis and listener, but I think we might get a couple votes for, you know, favorite pinball podcast segment.
    98:38
    Maybe favorite pinball podcast host. No, I don't think any of the award shows want to make more trophies. Favorite pinball podcast interview. No. Some of the trophies are pretty cheap. Let's not.
    98:49
    Yeah, but it's still work. You got to get it printed. And whether there's an error. what if the plate is crooked and the person who gets it notices but doesn't want to say anything because it would come across as rude. How long have we been doing pinball market trends for? Almost four years? Four years? Three? I don't know. I did see someone with a market trend shirt who came up to talk to me, and I knew which side he was on when he had the shirt. So I was – Wasn't Jeff Patterson kind enough to offer me a gift? Oh, yeah. Thank you, Jeff. He had a pinball market trend, or actually the Dennis Creasel shirt from Twip Years. The style I found, Will designed that, I found out. Oh, okay, cool. When he gave it to me. Yeah, very cool. So it was like, yeah, he came up with that idea with all the slogans and stuff inside the head. I got a chart. Because that was a really cool idea. I did like that as well. It's no Creasel clone, but it was really, really well received. That's Phil to Uncanny Valley. I was getting bothered by how often Joe Fox was asking for his shirt, because I was like, I really don't want to see it. Did you see mine? I wore mine one night.
    99:54
    Yeah, I did. I did wear it. I think that's when the whole Zack versus Kaneda, the showdown, the talk, the discussion, because I saw pictures of it and I swore somebody was doing video of it, like a WWE match, which is fucking pathetic and sad. But when Kaneda approached me for the discussion, I saw him pictures. I was like, oh, that's perfect. Here's Kreese LeClone just sticking out of my shirt. That was a deep end of conversation and poking back and forth with Kaneda. So, memories, Pinball Expo. All I remember is getting a call at almost 2 a.m. and hanging up. That was me because, yeah, I was going to have you come.
    100:34
    It was the same thing as Ken Cromwell. That's what I do. I get in my car and drive three miles. I forgot you weren't at the hotel. To a show that's closing now. I know. In order to do. And I didn't even know what at this point. And it was that slightly buzzed awareness that this was not what he was going to do. And all I heard, I didn't even hear you. All I heard was screaming in the background. Yeah, that was my fault. I realized it. I was like. Four rings in. I was like, he's not going to do this. How about now? Ladies and gentlemen, it's what you've wanted to hear, and we've got a big one this week. It is pinball market trends.
    101:11
    Can this be the Diet Coke edition? Just one market trend? Oh, per each? Sure. No, no. Training up this week is... No. You sprung me along. Absolutely not. Training up this week is Texas Canaan Remake. How about it? It's a hit, baby. It is a hit. You guys heard us talking about it. It can't be up on a market trend because no one's flipped them yet. These things are selling fast, fast, fast. And they have flipped. It's possible. 15K for an LE. Boom, baby.
    101:39
    New animation. That topper. Oh. Toppers compete with Black Knight. It has surpassed the Attack from Mars. I don't care what anybody says. It is better. It is better sculpted. I don't know. I went back and looked at the Attack from Mars topper, and the Martians didn't have their arms flailing in an unrealistic 360 fashion. No. How about now? So ridiculous. They don't have a minigame built into it that is somewhat difficult, actually. And wait until you see what this enhanced package does to that topper. I'm just saying. I can't say anymore. Turning up is Cactus Canyon Remake. Go ahead and get yourself a... You can't get yourself an LE because they're gone. Just fill up an SE. An SE Plus. That has a topper to it.
    102:20
    Oh, pinball fun. Also training up this week is Godzilla LE. Man, it's the bell of the ball at the Chicago Pinball Expo. And it's huge. Talk of the town. Godzilla LE was in the Flippin' Out booth as well. Unboxed mine there for all the people. I'm a man of the people, Dennis. I do it for the love and the support of this industry. And that's what I do. It's a burden. Someone I was talking to was bringing up how there are these games, and someone's like, I think I said, it doesn't make any sense for the manufacturers to bring LE models that are sold out. Someone said, there were LE models there. There was a Godzilla LE. And I said, Zach brought that.
    102:59
    Stern didn't bring that. Stern's not going to throw an LE out on the floor. They've sold them all. But one of their greatest representatives flipping out pinball was happy to oblige. I did that for the people. You are a people person. Godzilla LE is up, up, up. Man, it was hot last week and the week before. It's even hotter this week. Secondary pricing on a Godzilla LE are, they're up there. They're 15K. That's what you're looking at, 14, 15K. That's amazing. And if people are in that much love with this game, Dennis, at a .8 code, just think where this thing is going to go. This may be the greatest Stern pinball machine ever made.
    103:37
    Maybe. I'd say it's probably already based on perception of the community atop Sam Stern of all time oh I mean however many award shows there are this coming year it's going to clean up for game of the year it very much will clean up all day long I think it gets talked to Keith Elwin even Godzilla premiums I think at least it's going to continue to rise as you see the delays and delays for the runs of Godzilla's pros and premiums unfortunately. But fortunately, training up this week is family reunions. They're coming, y'all. There's no way to stop them. Thanksgiving turkey time is coming. Uncle Benny's coming to town. He's a little handsy. Watch out.
    104:24
    Why is there always a weird uncle? Do you have a weird uncle? A little too touchy? No. Not that I can remember. None of the Creasles. Relay affection. You didn't touch me. That's so mean. Is that accurate?
    104:41
    That's so mean. Are you guys huggers? Are the Creasles huggers? No. That doesn't surprise me. What if when I met your dad? Well, I mean, it depends on the person. If I met your dad for the first time, I went in for a big old hug, what would he do?
    104:54
    Maybe get a restraining order. I'm not sure. Would he be offended? Put off? Put off, yes. Put off, yeah. Because that's a very odd thing for strangers to do to you. I feel like he's not a stranger. I mean, imagine. I don't know. Do you like strangers coming up and hugging you? I don't. I think it's weird. If they're clean and well-kept. No, I don't do it. It's all about cleanliness. I don't know you. You're in my personal space, and I don't know who you are. Maybe that says something about the lack of what I had as a child. I don't know. I got a hug from Rachel Lilgey, and I've got to say, it felt good. I was like, oh, thank you, Rachel. So, yeah, I'm a hugger. I'm a toucher. I'm a little clingy. That's what it is. But family reunions are coming. They're coming strong. You get the holidays, the Kwanzaas, the Hanukkahs, the Christmases, the Krampuses. They're coming, and those weird-ass family members are going to be there. And, look, I know you don't like a lot of them, listener. I get it. I wouldn't like them either, especially that person that you've got in mind. I get it. But there's one time a year, two times a year. suck it up, embrace who they are as a person even if they're a fucking turd and just embrace that they share your DNA, bro. I'm sorry. I bring this up because it felt like a family reunion at the Chicago Pinball Expo. We interact so much through media and forums and chats and Facebooks and stuff that oftentimes we just feel like these friendships are closer than they are. And then whenever we can meet that person in vivo, in person it's just really nice because you kind of just pick up where you left off from a forum or from a text message and you go with it. But you're physically there with one another, creating new memories and going on adventures together in real life. And it felt like a family reunion and always feels like a family reunion. And for all of those who come up and share their experiences with some of the stuff you're creating, Dennis, it's just wonderful. And, again, just like a family reunion, There was many people that I interacted with at Expo that I think are turds that I don't like very much. But that doesn't mean that I can't just embrace the moment that is, find some acceptance, and some love for them being who they are. Albeit only once or twice a year.
    107:19
    Okay. That was nice, right? No? No, excise toxicity from your life and don't do family reunions with bad people. What?
    107:28
    Really? I mean, I can tolerate a lot of people, so for me it's okay, but for some people it's really hard on them, and I think in those cases DNA is irrelevant. Excise them. See, I wasn't going for that. I wasn't. Oh. Well, because you had this whole tie-in with people at, like TPN folks and stuff. But that's different. If your uncle is a murderer, okay, but maybe he makes a killer turkey dressing. I know. Killer turkey dressing. Yeah, that was so clever. Hey! Hey, pinball of interest. That one's for free for Punny Factory. Sorry, Uncle Charlie. Trending down this week, though, is Cactus Canyon remakes.
    108:09
    What? She went up, and five minutes later, she fell down. Now, I'm specifically talking about the value of the LE. Numbers don't lie, Dennis and listener. I only report the facts here. And the fact of the matter is, the moment that SE Plus was announced with that topper, you lost projecting aka making up number no no no I just do that's your new shirt that's the one I'm going to get made I just do now there's one expert when it comes to this marketplace and it's me so I think what I say is the truth right or the standard I think I established standards here well you know what I'm the standard plus so I go a little bit further. The standard for a Cactus Canyon remake was right at $15,000 when it was first announced and everybody was trying to get their grubby little hands on the spot. Right now, you've seen that drop about $1,500 with this announcement of SE+. The value on the secondary market. Wow. I guess the topper was valued at $1,500. Okay. That's 1.5x the topper standard. You could sell that topper for $2,000. Or you could sell the topper for $3,000 if they didn't make the SE+. It's just the value's not there anymore. Still high, still over MSRP, but what wasn't going to be at $92.50. Also trending down this week is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Pro. Man, the market's really flooding. Not the Beatles. Yeah, it's flooding with these things, and the Pro is almost the preferred trim level for this game. Yeah, because the glider breaks too much on the high trims. You're not wrong. But the Turtles Pro, you're finding in the low fives. Easy pin to pick up right now. Plenty of them out there. You'll probably talk somebody down a lot more. underappreciated pinball machine. It's going to take a while for people to realize that, but if a challenge is your thing, beautiful artwork and a terrific theme and code set and a layout that is challenging yet very much fun, fast and flowy, Turtles is where it's at, but it's trending down based on objective data. Objective data. Let's talk about this week's deal of the week. Deal of the week this week. Look out. This is not a specific deal of the week. No, no. This is a forecast. deal of the week forecast, I want you guys to pin a couple pins, if you will, for value in the future. Your deal of the future this week, I want you to look at the following games and them increasing in value next year. 2022, you're going to see the following machines see an increase in value.
    110:39
    Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden, and Guardians of the Galaxy. No need to further detail why, just keep in mind that I said that. Led Zeppelin Maiden and Guardians. If that's a game that you're wanting to get, I would suggest that we get, what, 5-10,000 listeners here every week, Dennis? Of those that don't listen in the pinball hobby, take use of that. Get one of those games from them because you're not going to lose money at all with those three titles. They're only going to go up in value.
    111:14
    Just remember. And we can't have the pinball market trends without asking people what in the deal of the WTF this week. I got a link. I don't even know where you guys can see this, but it's on Facebook. Did you see this link yet? No, but let me go ahead and click it and probably get all the spam. I hope it's a wiener. I'm already getting the sex toy invite, so it's not going to shock me. Okay, so I've got it loaded up. I don't know what this is. This isn't a... It's not a rip-off. It's not bad. I didn't know this was a thing. They're calling this a pinball machine seat extension, as if a seat was normal, but you have to extend said seat. This is a seat extension for a pinball machine. It's out of Kentucky, Jeffrey Schwartz. You can check this out. He says, in a true Kentucky accent, got two pinball machine seats. It's pictured. They connect to the pinball machine, and the players actually sitting while they're playing. Both seats could use a coat of paint, though. $85 for each. Pick it up in Louisville, Kentucky. A pinball seat. So it looks almost like an artist's desk, a drafting desk. It's metal. But that's where your butt would go? The butt part's metal, like sheet metal. But then it has like this place for your feet to probably balance the weight on the seat. What if you take your feet off? Are you going to fall backwards? This is weird. This is a deal of what the hell is. No, it actually looks like the pen. Yeah, looking at the photos, the front legs of the pen, they have little cup holders that the pen's holding down. It's clever. Okay. But it doesn't look comfortable. You're sitting so far. What if this thing is a really comfortable thing?
    113:07
    It's so strange. It's not. It's strange. It's not. It's not comfortable. There's no sitting in pinball. Not when you're playing Wipeout.
    113:17
    The premier name in pinball is Wipeout. That is a high-action ski snowboard game. The front cabinet took a wipeout. Shit. It's not too bad. Look at the planking on that. He's got paint.
    113:29
    He's got some scuffs above the coin door. I feel that a little bit. He's got some paint on the coin door. Looking like shit. You don't sit down, first off, when you play pinball. You just don't. Now, hold up. To all of those freaking out right now, hey, look, if you have a medical disability that disables your ability to stand up playing a pinball machine, this joke is not reverenced to you. I mean, no offense here. But if you're able, Bobby. Like the time you told that dude in the wheelchair he couldn't come into your house. I knew you'd bring it up. Because it's what you do. You're all like, no tires on my floor. Just, you know, skirt the wheels on my rug a little bit before. That's all I'm asking. Give it a full rotation on my rug so I can get that mud off them tires.
    114:08
    Don't care if you're in a wheelchair. Don't care if you're standing. I don't care if you fly in my house, but if you've got shit dropping off your shoes when you're flying, I'm going to have an issue with it. Same with shoes. Just imagine Terry rolling up to your drive, and then you open the door and look at him, and he has a single tear rolled down his face, and he turns around and rolls away. Terry can do no wrong. He can wheel through with mud, and I will rope it off so that it stays there forever. Terry's different. He's special, and he's better than all of you listeners.
    114:34
    A pinball seat, everybody. Eighty-five bucks. I almost want to buy this thing and powder coat it. Buy, buy, buy! Oh, my gosh. Don't sit down when you're buying. Quit powder coating everything. I like powder coating. I like it. I don't know what this is. It's so weird, though. I'm trying to think. Shout out to who sent this to me. Shout out to Cameron. I appreciate it, buddy. Deal of the... I have no clue what that is. Also, another deal of the what the fuck is going on. Pinside. It's a Guardians of the Galaxy LE+. Oh, okay. See? It's already falling into this thing.
    115:07
    LE+. If you click on this link, it's by Kyle's Car, 81, outside of Kennesaw, Georgia. Again, no direct conflict with you. You might be one of my customers. You might be a friend of mine. It's not against you, but it's very much against you because you're out of your fucking mind. First off, you label the thing modded out. Brand new. Guardians of the Galaxy LE+. You know how many misinformation pieces there are in that one title? Three. It's not brand new. It's out of the box. It's not brand new. It's not a plus model of any type. Insurer's Rehau's not an LE. It's a pro. What are you doing here, Kyle? Yeah, that's the thing that caught my eye was the label of LE. I did too. And then the linked game is a pro. And the details do make it very clear it's a pro. And I won an LE, so I clicked on it. It says two weeks old. Guardian's pro. Every bit of premium LE probably better? Question mark. Actually, what does it mean? This guy's a salesman. Plus minus 1,000 in mods. Well, I can tell you it's minus. It's minus $1,000 a month. He's got Penn Stadium lights, okay, Kenwood speaker, speaker light kit, Groot Arms, same but better, not in this way. Oh, I'm guessing that's the premium one. And that's false. The aftermarket Groot Arms, I love your company. It makes it. I won't say it out loud, but no, those are shit. Stern Art Blades and apron cards. None of this adds up to $1,000. Oh, a framed poster, too. It's not a topper, but it matches the apron card. Who gives a shit? Don't do the topper.
    116:40
    Top ten looking game. What? What is that? Next to zero plays, Dennis. What does that mean? Next to zero plays. Hmm. I've never heard of anybody ever. Well, there's only two numbers next to zero that are whole. Negative one and plus one. Yeah. So, I'm guessing one. Yeah. One play. Ugh. Local would be ideal. So, you're thinking, man, you're beating up this guy. At least he has a good price. $72.50 for Guardians Pro. No. Sell, sell, sell. I know I just said that these games are going to go up. Not $72.50. You tell us to buy one as soon as we can. And I would take a stance just not to buy this one because this guy is a snake oil salesman. What about Oboe? No, I don't. No Oboe here. It's a trade. Looking for a trade. What does he want in trade? He's even putting a Craigslist where you type out the numbers so you don't get scammed. 404 instead of 404 and spells out 9948. Okay. You know, I have a Godzilla LE Plus. I could trade him. You might know it as firepower, but... You might know it as firepower. Oh, man. He's looking for an alien, an Iron Maiden, Legacy of the Beast, an Elvira's House of Horrors. Okay. No, I don't have any of those. I'll get a 40th anniversary for him. Let's see who he wants to trade.
    118:07
    Oh, shit. Sell, sell, sell on this deal, deal, ripoff. And ladies and gentlemen, that was your Pimba Market Trends Plus.
    118:21
    All right, Dennis, that's a lot of news, a lot of talk. It was a lot. That's a lot. The listeners are tired now. What are we going to do next week? I'm not doing anything. Yeah, I'm trying to think. I'll do EGP. I need to get Steve Bowden on here. You know what? Would listeners want to hear Street Battle?
    118:38
    Yeah. I always like Steve on podcasts. I mentioned to him, you know, if he ever wanted to come on, he didn't. But with EGP, I don't know if he wanted to talk about it. Well, yeah, but only in the sense of if he just wanted to come on and talk pinball. I said, you know, we don't even have to talk American. We can do pinball in general.
    118:58
    No, no, I'm assuming. Not until more things wind up legally are anyone going to be in a position to be comfortable doing that. But holy cow, the blueberry, Blueberry Johnson on Pennside. Guy's got his own Pacer account. He's dropping nuggets. I mean, there are so many nuggets in that thing that, like, Baby Yoda is now Jabba eating all them nuggies. Yeah, there's a lot. That's how extreme it is. Holy crap. It's so bad. The stuff out of, I don't know if it's a Slack channel or some discussion group or email chain they were having, but seeing all the posts that Robert was doing about the missing payroll and all this stuff and just these statements about there's money in the pipeline. He was advancing all this stuff personally and all that. It's just like, oh, my gosh. The darkness is now coming to light. This is fascinating. Just fascinating. Terrifying, fascinating, yes. Where can people catch you between now and next week? They can always reach out to me at eclecticgamerspodcast.gmail.com or go to facebook.com slash eclecticgamerspodcast. You've got to shoot a message, and I check those things pretty regularly. Absolutely. You can also email Dennis at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com. I checked that, so I'll pass it along to him. Or if you want to reach out to me or any of the other TPM providers, we can help you out there. Follow, like, and subscribe to the YouTube page. We've got some fun stuff coming up. I thought we were going to announce it this week, but let's announce it maybe in a couple weeks here. Okay. Sponsor plug of the week, Flippin' Out Pinball. What? Yes. I feel like that. What do you have in stock? Well, in product showcase, then this is the Cactus Canyon SE+. We've got spots there.
    120:36
    So by SE+, do you mean pro? What do you mean? I mean that. I always wonder now. If anybody wants one, we do have spots available. For anybody that ordered the SE that has not, that I haven't heard back from you, if you want to upgrade to the SE+, we can do that as well. We still have an Elvira 40th Anniversary, two spots left. We've got that really special number 40 as well as just a plebe of a regular run number. But those are available, and they're going to be built very soon. So if you want an Elvira to play out-of-the-box new, it's going to be the only way to do it. Star Wars, the pin, they're making them, people. They're making them premiums. It's just it may not be as quick as everybody would love. Maybe I'm wrong. What about the Jurassic Park pins? Well, the pin, we've got those coming. I think we still have a spot for The Pin, too, coming in November, December. So if anybody wants that. I just want to show the dates because Jack's version at Expo was his prototype. Yeah, so that is coming. We do have Star Wars The Pin comic still in stock, so we have that. I think I have a Houdini left. We have Willy Wonka Ellie. So we have some inventory for you guys to buy, as well as preorders, Godzilla preordering accessories. Got to be patient because it is kind of the talk of the decade here, but you will get your game. It is Stern Pinball, so you will get your game. It may take a while, but you'll get your game. We do have some Beatles gold coming in. I think I have a couple spots for those. And the Elite Pinball Indiana Jones Deluxe Topper, exclusively now at FlippinOut.com.
    122:04
    Does that go on my Stern Indiana Jones 4? I don't believe so. But we can figure it out. No, we can't. Big Buck Hunters, CGC's Miss Pac-Man, Stranger Things Art, I've got a lot of mods right now. Maybe not the ones you want, but the ones you definitely need. Guardians of the Galaxy shooter rods. I think we got a handful of Deadpool toppers. Nobody emailed me because we didn't get enough to fill our allotment. So some of you will be getting those. Shooter rods for Avengers, I think, came in. I think we're going to have our allotment filled, so we may have a couple extras. So follow, like, and subscribe on Facebook for that. Deadpool stuff we have in. The Ninja Stars, the Stranger Things shooter rods. Banners, banners, banners. Mando banners now in. Escalator Turnaround's eight to ten weeks. Get it now. Let's do it. Merchandise. Buy yourselves a t-shirt. People, support this show. Support Puppet Pals. Support, uh, anything. When's the new Puppet Pals? I don't know where they went. Poor fellers. They're probably waiting for you and I to save us. Save them. From what? Uh, have you not met the darkness that is the, uh, the antagonist in that show? It's been so long, I don't remember. And his little crow sidekick? Hmm. Timmy? Oh, man. I do miss the Puppet Pals. I saw a handful of Puppet Pal t-shirts at Expo. I don't remember seeing any. Yeah, I saw a couple. I loved it. I have to poke Kenead a little bit. I saw more Puppet Pals t-shirts than Viva La Raza.
    123:35
    It's all fun. We're having fun. Funny. It's all fun. TPN last week, the Pinball Show interviewed Mike Vinicore. Thank you, Matt Morrison. That was a good interview. He's one of my favorite people that I get to hang out with at Expo. Yeah, I had dinner with Matt. He's very, very knowledgeable. He's good. He's a good player. It's annoying. He's a really good player that nobody really knows about. Matt Morrison's a stealth player. Where's that? He's what we call a player plus in the industry.
    124:03
    And we get to run with that for a long time. It's going to be a new thing. Start coming up with shirt designs. Poor Seth Davis over at Stern's like, that was my idea. That's why I came over here in the first place.
    124:15
    Shit. Insider Plus, Gary. I'm telling you. Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 8, Three Stooges Meet the Wizard. Those knuckleheads are always good. Super Bowl Chronicles Episode 18. Maybe a cornerstone episode here in what they're calling the mechs that made us. A very appreciative, of course, the biggest complaint about that episode were people writing and saying, you didn't talk about the mech I love. I know. It's hard to cover them all. I think they could do a part two. Yeah, or I think David's plan is to roll some of those mechs in with the more specific, like talking about particular designers and stuff is the scheme behind it. They've got it all planned out and scheduled up there. I love it. That's right. It's like the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I don't know if Free Play Pinball Podcast has got it all planned. They talked about a Pinball Expo hangover in episode three. Yeah, it was an interesting one. That was a good one. The final round Pinball Podcast, episode 45, Tag Team with Robert Byers. Top rope. You know what? I loved taking the side of that. Podcasting is way more difficult than streaming. Until I saw George Fisher's setup. And then I was like, shit, Dennis. I think some people may have it. Once they get it set up, it's just clicking a button. Don't be fooled. It's all the upfront work. Once they get it set up. Just hit that button. Nice job, George. And the magic happens. I think one of my favorite people ever, I should have turned him up, was Manu. I didn't know Manu from Mystery Pinball Theater was a professional editor. Did he tell you about compression and how useful it is? Fuck off, Dennis.
    125:51
    He's going to help me a little bit, but Manu is a big help, and I look up to him in a lot of ways. So thank you, Manu. The Flippin' Out Pinball Tailgate Party, VOD, is on YouTube now. The VOD. Or if you want to skip all the commercials and listen to it with the phone off, you can sign up to YouTube Plus. It's like YouTube Red or Premiere. Or YouTube Red or something. Something like that. I don't know. Speaking of YouTube, TPN's YouTube, you can check out Joel, just another pinball podcasting, flipping out videocasts. He's been doing, like, a video podcast there with yourself, Dan. Yeah, he's really run with your idea of, hey, I would like just having people just talking pinball, not just, you know, staying there playing it. He's really been, I think he must be enjoying it because he's done a few episodes now. He's right now an all-star. He was streaming on the Flippin' Out channel this past week. Had 100 and I think it was up to 180 viewers at one point. I saw there were a lot. Yes. So we gave away some shit. And we're going to give you away a banner. Remember, if you want this banner, Godzilla banner, beautiful, beautiful artwork, email us at thepinballnetwork at gmail.com with your Godzilla roar. Come on. Woman up. Man up. Let's hear it. I want to hear these roars. Go, Zura!
    127:09
    Okay, that's good. Go, Zura! This needs to stop now. Tom Graff and Fox City streaming the Expo tournaments. Be on the lookout for what competition they will be streaming next. TPN this week, I don't know podcast-wise what we have this week, but I can tell you... Maybe nothing, because a bunch dropped late last week. They did. So it might just be us. I can tell you there's some really interesting streaming stuff coming up. And that's coming from Don't Panic Flip. We've got another Iron Pinball battle on the 8th. Tink, tink. Yeah, November 8th, 2021. So today, holy moly, today at 10 p.m. Mountain. Ugh, George. 11 p.m. Central, right? 11 p.m. Central. Jedi McMuffin is going to take on Flipstream against Hot Wheels. Vroom, vroom. And then on the 11th, three days later, we've got Sir Snark versus Nick the Pinsomniac. And Sir Snark works for P3. Alex, over there, good to meet you. They are battling on Deadpool. Oh. Yeah. Jerry may not like that.
    128:22
    Tune in, follow, like, subscribe, support us as much as you can. We had a lot of love from all of you individuals this past week or two with what we're doing at TPN. And we can't wait to share with you all of the new exciting things that we have coming very soon. If you think this is pinball media, you haven't seen nothing yet. And special shout-out to Kevin Hart, who came over and gave us a goodie bag for TPN and said that he appreciates all of the stuff we did. And they all are all kinds of goodies for everybody to snack on. Yeah, I heard about combos. I can't believe you've never eaten a combo. I don't have any memory of it. I'm not saying I've never done it, but... Powdered cheese inside a roll, like a pretzel.
    129:01
    The concept was well explained to me. Sorry. It's for Dennis Creasel, I'm Zach Minney. Always remember, if a game's making a fuss, just turn it into a plus.
    129:12
    You are not. You're never ready on these. I'm always ready if it ever happens. It's really good. And always practice safe. Timber! It's possible that that closing joke was a little bit too deep. It came from the blackness.
    129:41
    Maybe cut that one out. Yeah, I will. Fucking horse. I'm sorry. I'm such a dick today. Well, that one was good, though. That was good, but, yeah. Well, no, there was gold there. There was. I chose to mine it instead of passing it by. You were a better man than me.