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The Pinball Show Ep 63: The Game Has Changed, For The Price Of A Cup Of Coffee

The Pinball Show·podcast_episode·1h 28m·analyzed·Jun 7, 2021
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.039

TL;DR

Stern delays Mandalorian Pros to August; industry grapples with supply chain and production capacity constraints.

Summary

The Pinball Show discusses Stern's Mandalorian production delays and revised shipping schedule (Pros delayed to August, with unexpected Premium runs in June), American Pinball's expansion plans (two games/year, Classic/Deluxe tiers), Spooky/Haggis production updates, and supply chain constraints affecting the entire industry. Hosts debate whether Stern needs facility expansion or if parts shortages are the real bottleneck.

Key Claims

  • Mandalorian Pro production is delayed; Pros now estimated to arrive in June or later, with homeowner delivery pushed to August

    high confidence · Craig Bobby and Zach Minney discuss official Stern production timeline updates on the show

  • American Pinball plans two games per year going forward (one spring, one fall), with both licensed themes and dual-tier Classic/Deluxe models

    high confidence · Brian Cosner reports official TPN Industry News update from American Pinball

  • Stern Deadpool toppers will be made available again soon by the manufacturer

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby cites Zach Menny's prognostication on Slam Tilt podcast; framed as rumor ('rumor has it')

  • Spooky Pinball's next title release is expected within 2-3 weeks with improved build quality (no IDC connectors, Molex only)

    high confidence · Dr. John reports update from Charlie at Spooky on manufacturing improvements

  • Haggis Pinball is finalizing new factory layout with machinery arriving from Germany, targeting overseas Celts shipments within 1-2 months followed by Fathom Mermaid editions

    high confidence · Dr. John reports Damien's weekly Facebook updates on Haggis factory progress

  • Mandalorian Premium/LE orders outnumber Pro orders (2-3 to 1 ratio), potentially explaining revised production priority

    medium confidence · Zach Minney reports personal ordering data and speculates on demand drivers

  • Stern produced making-of-Avengers Infinity Quest video featuring Keith Elwin and Raymond Davidson

    high confidence · Craig Bobby reports official Stern video release on The Pinball Show

  • Gary Stern stated in late 2020 that Stern was 5,000 games behind on backlog

    high confidence · Zach Minney recalls Gary Stern's public statement; factual reference to past interview

  • Wizard of Oz is receiving internet connectivity and Scorebit integration via Code Update 7.03

Notable Quotes

  • “For the price of a cup of coffee, you can have three of these books. Go buy the damn thing.”

    Zach Minney @ Early segment — Host promoting the collaborative choose-your-own-adventure book ('Take a Shot Stories') featuring Dennis and Lucas Pepke; establishes the 'For the Price of a Cup of Coffee' segment title

  • “It's like if you were to go to Krispy Kreme and you were to get their glaze formula for the donuts and glaze a rock with it, it's still just a rock underneath it.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Early segment (Slam Tilt recap) — Critique of Zach's debate approach on previous podcast appearance; establishes dynamic of Dennis as skeptic, Zach as optimist

  • “I think the thing that advantages the operators and to Stern's benefit to potentially get more homeowner sales is to prioritize having the pros go to the operators first when you make the pros.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Mandalorian production discussion — Strategic analysis of why Stern may be shifting production order; suggests operator-first strategy

  • “Mando, I think, is going to outsell anything else this year, and I think it outsells anything that was released last year.”

    Zach Minney @ Mandalorian production discussion — Predicts Mandalorian will be record-breaking title; suggests demand should drive higher production priority

  • “I don't think that their space is the problem. That place is full. I think they could move again.”

    Zach Minney @ Stern expansion debate — Advocates for Stern facility expansion as solution to production bottleneck

  • “I'm not sure that they're actually maximizing the full space where they're at... if they're running into parts issues then it's just, I mean it is what it is.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Stern expansion debate — Counters Zach's expansion argument; suggests parts shortage, not facility space, is the real constraint

  • “You know what, listener? Dennis, tell me if you agree with this or not. I think it's time for Stern Pinball to maybe think about increasing their size yet again.”

Entities

Zach MinneypersonDennis CreaselpersonStern PinballcompanyMandalorian (Star Wars)gameAmerican PinballcompanySpooky PinballcompanyHaggis PinballcompanyJack Dangerperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Haggis Pinball factory expansion underway; new machinery from Germany arriving; targeting overseas Celts shipments within 1-2 months followed by Fathom Mermaid editions

    high · Dr. John: 'Damien's back to his Facebook updates... finalising the layout with some new machinery and some new componentry coming in from Germany... hopefully we should see the overseas Celts shipments in the next month or two'

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern's 5,000-unit backlog from late 2020 context; company balancing new releases (LED Zeppelin, Mandalorian) against backlog obligations

    high · Zach Minney: 'I remember last late last year when gary stern said they were 5000 games behind and then it's like they released Led Zeppelin. I'm like, why would you do that?'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Mandalorian gameplay reception positive; design features (gear progression, visual representation) generating engaged community discussion and minor feature requests

    high · Zach Minney: 'I can't pick on the way it shoots. It looks like it shoots really fun. The rules look engaging already' and references podcast discussion of Season 2 armor upgrades

  • ?

    competitive_signal: American Pinball positioning dual-tier model (Classic for operators, Deluxe for home collectors) to address different market segments; two games/year cadence planned

    high · Brian Cosner: 'there's going to be a classic model that's going to be more for operators and there's going to be a deluxe version that's for the home collectors'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Minor Mandalorian gameplay feature debate: gear disappearing after use vs. maintaining visual progress indicator for endgame performance tracking

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.267

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. This week on The Pinball Show, we deliver the news, including Stern Pinball production updates and changes, Mandalorian Pro Gameplay, Zack getting slam-tilted, Dennis choosing his own adventure and morphing into a vampire, Multimorphic jumping into the ring, American Pinball's upcoming production plans, a new segment we're calling The Game Has Changed, a most special edition of Pinball Market Trends, and the pinball landscape for the remainder of 2021. Listen now, because all other priorities are rescinded.
0:55
Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle It's time for the Pinball Show It's pinball with personality It's amazing, I'm the reason Everybody fired up this evening I'm exhausted, barely breathing Holding on to what I believe in No matter what, you'll never take that from me My reign is as far as your eyes can see It's amazing Episode 63 of the Pinball Show is coming at you right now. I'm Zach Minney alongside my co-host Dennis Creasel from the Eclectic Gamers Podcast. How you feeling, Dennis? Feeling good? Yeah, I'm fine. You loose, baby? Oh, we got a lot of news. You loose? I'm going to rub them shoulders. Need you to be on fire. Get in that ring. I think the news will start its own fire.
1:54
Warm the heart of the listener. It typically does. I was on fire last week. I was invited onto the legendary Slam Tilt pinball podcast. Did you take a listen to that with Ron? I happened to. Yes, I did. I held my own. Right, Dennis? You tried. Dennis, Mr. Creasel, you have to objectively say I held my ground and I was on point. It's just hard when you take things, when you embrace trolling like pretending Popeye's a great game and just decided to make it a part of your persona. I thought I made good arguments. Better arguments than the alternative was. It's like if you were to take the – if you were to go to Krispy Kreme and you were to get their glaze formula for the donuts and glaze a rock with it, it's still just a rock underneath it. Yeah, okay. The dishonesty beneath the fact is sort of irrelevant to the quality of the argument. It undermines it. If it was debate club, congratulations. but this is the world of podcasting. It's not debate. I think I heard a little nod of the tip of the hat there. Did one tip their cap?

high confidence · Ken Rudberg reports in Jersey Jack update segment

  • Supply chain constraints are affecting all manufacturers, not just Stern

    high confidence · Zach Minney notes parts delays are universal across the industry

    • Zach Minney @ Stern expansion debate — Introduces segment topic; direct appeal to listener base on industry concern

  • “I heard on another podcast, I wish I could remember which one it was, where they had suggested the idea of wouldn't it be nice if at the high score, the image would show and you'd be able to look...”

    Zach Minney @ Mandalorian gameplay discussion — References community feedback on Mandalorian gear display feature; suggests desire for visual progression tracking

  • “So if that is the case, then they don't know what their reaction will be to one of their new games. Does that make sense?”

    Dennis Creasel @ Production scheduling discussion — Explains manufacturing constraint: production schedules locked before game announcement

  • “And what a great problem to have for Stern Pinball.”

    Dennis Creasel @ Backlog discussion — Acknowledges production demand as positive business problem while noting customer service challenges

    • Raymond Davidson
    person
    Keith Elwinperson
    Travis Murrayperson
    Lucas Pepkeperson
    Zach Mennyperson
    Ron Hallettperson
    Bruce Nightingaleperson
    Craig Bobbyperson
    Brian Cosnerperson
    Ken Rudbergperson
    Dr. Johnperson
    Avengers Infinity Questgame
    Deadpoolgame
    Wizard of Ozgame
    Deadfliporganization
    Gary Sternperson
    Josh Sharpperson

    medium · Zach Minney wishes gear remained visible 'not so much to see what I have, but what I have earned throughout the game' for potential speedrun/0% gear challenge format

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Spooky Pinball implementing improved build quality (elimination of IDC connectors, Molex only) to reduce transport-related disconnections

    high · Dr. John: 'increased build quality with no more IDC connectors and Molex only as promised. So that should reduce any little disconnections during transport'

  • $

    market_signal: Mandalorian anticipated to be record-breaking seller exceeding all 2020 releases; hosts debate whether demand should prioritize production allocation

    medium · Zach Minney: 'Mando, I think, is going to outsell anything else this year, and I think it outsells anything that was released last year' but Dennis counters that production schedules are locked pre-announcement

  • $

    market_signal: Premium/LE demand significantly exceeds Pro demand (2-3:1 ratio); unexpected market dynamic potentially driving production schedule shifts

    medium · Zach Minney reports: 'We ordered two or three to one premiums to pros' and speculates this may explain Stern's decision to run premiums before pro stock reaches homeowners

  • ?

    community_signal: Jack Danger provided exclusive early hands-on gameplay stream of Mandalorian Pro on Deadflip, leveraging streaming platform influence for community engagement

    high · Craig Bobby: 'Jack Danger welcomed the first Mandalorian Pro onto his Deadflip pinball stream on Twitch. The stream gave fans and potential buyers a chance to finally see the Mandalorian Pro's one-flipper upper playfield in action'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Mandalorian Pro production delayed from initial expectation to August delivery; Premium/LE runs scheduled June (end of month) with revised production priority

    high · Zach Minney: 'homeowners that ordered a pro are looking at August, a couple months.' Production schedule shows no July runs, with August and October as next Pro/Premium windows

  • ?

    product_strategy: Wizard of Oz receiving Code Update 7.03 adding internet connectivity and Scorebit integration

    high · Ken Rudberg: 'The Wizard of Oz is the next game in line to receive internet connectivity and scorebit integration through Code Update version 7.03'

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Parts shortages affecting all manufacturers; supply chain delays explicitly cited as reason for Mandalorian production delays

    high · Craig Bobby: 'we do know that there's a parts delay, supply delay everywhere. That's every manufacturer.' Described as universal industry issue

    • 3:05
    It's real interesting because Bruce is very negative about a lot of games and such, and you're very positive, so naturally there was going to be some degree of conflict that would manifest from that. And Ron was the realist. Yeah, Ron's very practical. Back and forth between both arguments of any topic of degree that we have. Ron really likes certain games. He also is willing to dislike certain games. And he can actually sing. So it's like... Can he not? You're like the android from Alien and he's Bishop from Aliens. He's just better in all ways. The android? You remember the android in Alien? Yeah, but... Ash? I'm him?
    3:44
    Yeah, kinda. Well, he wasn't really very positive. I thought it'd be... You're trying to, I'm like Sigourney, and you're trying to choke me with a magazine, and the magazine is Market Trends. I thought I was the kid. There's no kid in Alien. What am I thinking of? Unless you mean the baby alien. No, I'm thinking of, oh, what's the little girl? Newt? Yeah, Newt. Yeah, that's Aliens. Oh, the better film. I'm talking about, Ash wasn't in Aliens, he was in Alien. Ash is the android in Alien, Bishop is the alien, is in Aliens as the android. Bored. Crispy cream donuts suck. I agree. I actually don't like them. Good. I like Dunkin'. Yeah, Dunkin's fine. Crispy cream, I don't know what they do.
    4:30
    It's too sweet. It's a weird formula. It's too sweet. Fundamentally, that's the problem. It's like eating cake. We talked last week, listener, about Joe Fox and I on the Pinball Show here talked about the honeymoon period in receiving a pinball machine and how long that honeymoon period lasts. We didn't know if you could identify that by games played or by duration of ownership or play. Dennis, any thoughts on the honeymoon period or how long it lasts, you think, on average?
    5:01
    No. I mean, it depends on the owner. Some of them are going to do it based off of time of possession, and then others would be like – I think that number of games played is a good metric for being able to know whether or not you enjoy the gameplay. I think some people, that's not necessarily what they just get bored of anything, and it doesn't matter if they're actually playing it or not. So for them, it's going to be more about ownership. I think, in my opinion, most people who are familiar with pinball should be able to fully understand whether or not they enjoy how well a game plays within 50 plays. Oh, 50? Yeah. I thought it should go longer than me. It doesn't really take that many.
    5:40
    That's enough to understand the shots, and should be able to access anything close to the start button within 50 plays should be achievable in a home environment. That's more of an objective approach, but people aren't that way. Some people like you are. True, true. There are other people that seem to be like once they've owned a game three months, it doesn't matter if they put on 20 games or 2,000. They are no longer in love with it. So that was my last week talking about honeymoons and yelling at Bruce Nightingale. How was your last week? Oh, fine. I've been real busy with work, and then a separate kind of hobby project I was working on was formally publicly announced as being ready to go. Yeah, I've seen that. Tell the listener about this. This is cool. Yeah. So I and several dozen other authors participated in crafting essentially a choose-your-own-adventure book. Did you ever read choose-your-own-adventure books? I did as a – they were children's choose-your-own-adventures. Right, yeah. A lot of them were oriented to kids, written in second person. And then you'd come to a choice and you'd turn to a different page depending which choice you had. A horror or sci-fi theme generally is what I read. Yeah, I just remember a variety of adventure-style ones that I would read as a kid. And so anyway, that's the genre essentially of the book. So it's called Take a Shot Stories, number one, Beach Chip Beware. And so, yeah, there were 40-plus authors who contributed to it. So I was approached about participating, and I said I would. And so finally it rolled around, and so you had different authors handling different endings, handling different transitions, and all to be merged into a seamless adventure book, which the editing for that must have been a nightmare. Thankfully, I did not. I did not have to edit it. I'll email you a link you can throw in the show notes. That would be great. The Kindle version. Full disclosure, obviously, as a contributing author, there may be financial benefit to me for people buying books, so I always like to get that out there as a notation. So it's available for pre-order for Kindles. It's not available on Kindle until July 1st, but it's $0.99 for the whole book. Then that is cheap for a book. That's almost 1,000 books for a topper. That's really sad when you put it in that context. I know.
    7:55
    I also actually had another one that I guess it dropped in December. I vaguely remember an email, and that one was a vampire story that I wrote like 20 years ago. and the editor of the magazine I sent it to who published it e-magazine at the time asked if she could run it as in a book anthology and said I had agreed but she wanted to check again because I had last agreed like in 2004 so I was like okay so I'll give you a link to that a vampire story uh yeah it was she had a I think her uh her online magazine was like called bloodlust UK it was a British-based vampire fiction. Look, back when I was job searching out of college, I wrote a lot of short fiction. Just fill my time. And I had a number of them published. And then once I started working, I quit writing. I love this story. So I don't really write fiction much anymore. But anyway, so yeah, I sold a few stories over that time period. Vampire. I love painting this picture about you. This is good. So I didn't I didn't normally do vampire fiction. It was just something I'd get an idea and I'd write a story off of it. So I had, you know, I had sci fi stuff. I had weird stuff. I had one that I took that Sally Fields movie, Not Without My Daughter, and I made a whole stupid version with a kidnapped dog. I actually have custom art. An artist painted me a picture for that. I hope it's of you as a vampire. In college, were you a little vampire goth? No. White foundation, guy liner? No. I don't ever remember even reading vampire novels. You won't be my little Edward?
    9:43
    No. So we have correspondents. Let's talk about them correspondents. I just want to keep talking about vampires.
    9:50
    Tony, after he found out about that, goes, don't tell me you're one of those sparkly vampire people. It's like, no, Tony, it was a one-off. So as beautiful as that visual is for you all, Dennis Creasel in his early 20s as a vampire going to conventions trying to pick up other vampire chicks,
    10:11
    go out and support this. He's not going to do it, so I'm going to push it for you because I'm all about that buy, buy, buy. I have no part of it, so that makes you want to support it even more. so go out it's 99 cents pre-order it buy the damn thing that's that's cheap you know what dennis i i've heard for the price of a cup of coffee uh you know you can have three of these books go buy the damn thing i'm not the only pinhead who uh worked on it uh lucas uh pepke oh yeah that's our buddy he's he was he was one that edited it oh i didn't know that's who approached me it's from his uh literally wasted yeah okay that was the group that and that's the listed as the that's the listed author that's the group that organized the whole thing so yeah for those that don't know lucas besides being really involved in pinball he's really involved in literature he's awesome if not doing it to support me do it for lucas do it for lucas do it for the people and for the price of a cup of coffee decaf for a price for a one-third of a cup of coffee coffee's really expensive i don't drink coffee so what do you got correspondence It's time for TPN Industry News.
    11:46
    light supply chain issue that's affecting the reveal of the new game it's going to be seen as soon as it's ready to ship this new game available this spring is going to be unlicensed and there's also going to be an unlicensed game available this fall sometime right around expo the plan is to have two games out per year so next year the plan is to have a game in the spring and the fall both of those games look to be licensed themes and they also want to have two models going forward for each game there's going to be a classic model that's going to be more for operators and there's going to be a deluxe version that's for the home collectors or homeowners it's going to have a mirrored back glass and a few other options that won't be on the classic but they're going to have the option to buy the additional parts for the classic model so american pinball looks to have two games per year and have multiple lines there at the factory and even have room for contract manufacturing in case another company wanted to have American Pinball build games for them. So it looks like some interesting times there at American Pinball. I hope everybody has a great week and has fun playing pinball. For the Pinball Show, this is Brian Cosner.
    12:56
    Hello and welcome to the Pinball Show's Stern News Update. I'm Craig Bobby. Oh, the wait was finally over this week for excited buyers and enthusiasts as Jack Danger welcomed the first Mandalorian Pro onto his Deadflip pinball stream on Twitch. The stream gave fans and potential buyers a chance to finally see the Mandalorian Pro's one-flipper upper playfield in action and also see other minor layout differences versus the premium LE that was previously shown on Deadflip when the title was first revealed. With the first Mandalorian Pros coming off the production line this week, Viewers should expect to see this title popping up all over Twitch and at various pinball locations in the coming week. And don't look now, but fans of the Deadpool title should be getting excited as rumor has it that Stern will be taking order soon for another run of Deadpool toppers. Yes, courtesy of the Topper King himself, Zach Menny, who shared his prognostication as a guest on the Slam Tilt podcast with Ron Hallett and Bruce Nightingale this past week that this hard-to-find Topper would be made available again soon by the world's largest pinball manufacturer in the near future. Ooh! And meanwhile, back at Pinball Central, Stern released the making of the Avengers Infinity Quest video this past week starring Keith Elwin and the rest of the design crew of this record-breaking title, including TPN's own, the world's number one pinball player, Raymond Davidson. The video is offering a fascinating look into the making of the game from the layout to the rules to the art, while explaining how Team Elwynn's collaboration made pinball history once again in the creation of this modern Stern classic. That's all for this week. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    14:54
    Hi, this is Ken Rudberg with your Jersey Jack update. At the risk of this becoming the Guns N' Roses mod update, I wanted to point out yet another option for the discerning Guns N' Roses owner looking for a topper.
    15:09
    Pinball Bazaar out of the UK will be producing their own topper. Not only are they a respected mod maker in their own right, but they now have Stumbler on board, who is a Twippy-nominated mod maker that created the flashing snack bar light for Creature from the Black Lagoon. Not only that, they also have Brian Allen from Flyland Designs. He's the artist responsible for the recent alternate back glass designs for classic Valley Williams games, as well as pinball mashup posters featuring a wide range of classic pinball characters. With this super team of mod makers and artists, it will be interesting to see what they come up with to meet the competition for limited Guns N' Roses back box real estate. And finally, The Wizard of Oz is the next game in line to receive internet connectivity and scorebit integration through Code Update version 7.03. For The Pinball Show, this has been Ken Rudberg.
    16:11
    Hi, I'm Dr. John, and this week's SHIT update on The Pinball Show. Not too much going on in the lull prior to the release of Spooky's next title, which we're hoping will be in the next two to three weeks still. No leaks, just an update from Charlie on the increased build quality with no more IDC connectors and Molex only as promised. So that should reduce any little disconnections during transport, which has been a feature in the past. On the haggis front, Damien's back to his Facebook updates on how the progress is going with the new factory. These should be coming out every week or so, and at the moment they're just finalising the layout with some new machinery and some new componentry coming in from Germany to commence finishing off the build of Celts. This will then allow them to get on to building all the Mermaid editions which have been sold out for the Fathom. So hopefully we should see the overseas Celts shipments in the next month or two. and then following that the first shipment of the Fathom Mermaid Edition. So that's it for this week and we'll catch you all next week.
    17:29
    We're going to kick it off with the King yet again because we've got news from Sturm Pinball. Do-do-do. Yes. Do-woo-do-woo-do-woo-do-woo. Oh yeah, we didn't even get flagged for that. Nicely done. The Mandalorian Pro was streamed this past week on Deadflip Pinball Streaming Channel. Did you get a chance to check out this gameplay? No, I did not.
    17:50
    I will say, looks to shoot good as well. I don't think you can go wrong with any of these models. Some of the pros, the pro had, in my opinion, had some really big positives, maybe even over the premium LE. Wow. Yeah, but there were some things that kind of, I'm like, eh, got to go premium on this one at least. It was probably the lack of the habit trails. That was part of it. You like a good wire form, Zach. I do, and I do like a good plastic. I don't mind. I'm not a... You're not an anti-plastic. I'm not a ramp snob. But you do seem generally just visually to highly prefer wire form, which I would agree that it is more attractive. I do kind of like the entrance with a plastic. I like that feel. Sometimes I'm trying to think what game has metal entrances, and I'm like, works on Avengers, that's for sure. I've been playing a lot of that. But no, the stream looked good, sounded good. We got to hear a lot of the call-outs. This game's shaping up to be awesome. I can't wait to play it. One of the things I did notice, we were talking last time or on previous episodes with Dennis and I, that it's kind of cool you get that visual representation of Mando up there and when you gain the Beskar and you go into the foundry and you upgrade your equipment, you see it visually on his person up there. Like if you get a rifle, then boom, the rifle goes on his back, and you can see kind of what equipped. I like that. I did notice, though, that once you use the item that represents that gear, it goes away visually, and I was kind of bummed. Well, I mean, it could be seen as a handy way for you to quickly just glance and know what you still have at your disposal. Yeah, as a UI, that's kind of what it was. Yes, and I realize that now that it probably makes the most sense, but I kind of like it as a measurement of progress too. No, that's a good point. I heard on another podcast, I wish I could remember which one it was, where they had suggested the idea of wouldn't it be nice if at the – like when you put in a high score. Yeah. Like the image would show and then you'd be able to look and it's like a video game thing where if you do a speed run and you want to do a 0% speed run where you basically finish the game naked and show that you still were able to win without any of the gear. If it goes away on use, it's not conveying that. Especially when we're thinking about this code and rule set borrowing or playing around with the idea of an RPG style game. I kind of like that as just a long term progress. not so much to see what I have, but what I have earned throughout the game. So maybe they'll consider that in the future, but I thought that'd be neat. And then I think whoever you're referring to, I'm forgetting who it was as well, but they were talking about like in the high scores. Yeah. You would be able to kind of just look at the figure and know. It might have been Joel's podcast. Okay. Could have been just another pinball when he had Jordan and, and Chuck work. Yeah. So I think it was that one could have been. So yeah, I was, I saw that and I was like, Oh man, I want to keep my rifle. I earned it. And I also like Travis Meary was discussing some of his reactions to gameplay of the Premium LE, I believe. He was discussing that the armor used on the visuals of the LCD screen of Mandalorian was the armor in Season 1. Kind of that, I've got to build my armor up because it's really expensive. He said he wished that you would see at some point being able to upgrade to that Season 2, very sleek, uniform, consistent Beskar outfit. And I agree. I would love to see you be able to upgrade at some point. Maybe you get to the first Wizard mode and you get upgraded with this Season 2, awesome, awesome outfit. Just little things like that. Are we asking too much, Dennis? I think this is a pretty small potato complaint. Okay. I can't pick on the way it shoots. It looks like it shoots really fun. The rules look engaging already, which is surprising. You still haven't said what is on, like, .87, .95. And I know that's arbitrary, but I'd still be interested to know where that's at. But you don really feel like you losing a whole heck of a lot in the Pro You still get the complete game and then the Premium takes it up a notch with you get another ramp Well you convinced me Zach so if I order my product how long will I wait Waiting for you to ask for the first one again. No, no, I know I can't ask for the first one, so how long will I have to wait for the second one? We do have some updates here on the Pinball Show. Updates that are going to be a little bit different than we're accustomed to with previous Stern releases. we do know that there's a parts delay, supply delay everywhere. That's every manufacturer. That doesn't even have to be pinball. So I think that's why we haven't seen the pros yet. We do know the pros are scheduled to arrive any time now for those designated locations and dealer showrooms. So if you ordered a pro, it's not coming in the first run. I don't care what dealer it is for the most part unless they're breaking the rules. I'm hoping this week maybe. maybe this week and we know that all the le's after the pros run all the le's are then estimated to be built all together in june as well now here's the difference dennis i think this is different they haven't acknowledged that this is different but we're actually listener going to see a run of premiums in june as well albeit at the end of the month but typically dennis whenever they release these they do pros to the showroom and to the locations they've done that before then they run le's sometimes then they throw another pro run in there because they know they're going to make a lot then premium later on we're seeing a little switch here because premiums may hit the majority of homeowners before the pros why do you think that could be well i've known that in the past i've seen premium buyers complain that why should they be the last of the three runs when they're paying the second highest amount it's a good argument so maybe that's the motivator maybe the balance of purchasing is such that there are more premiums that have been pre-ordered than pros i would guess that could be another case actually that'd be another those would be the two main ones i would think of we ordered two or three to one premiums to pros so that could be it could be the case so i guess i'll just get my pro in july during the july production so then after that they're not making a july run of pros or premiums they're not doing any mandos in july i don't know if the if the june run of the premiums is so late that they're planning on just that being the first part of july they still have a lot of back order titles I know, but there are a lot of Mandos that have been ordered. The production schedule at this point in time is additional pro and premium runs for August. Many of the listeners right now are thinking, well, wait a minute. That's a long time to wait. And I think Stern's aware of that.
    25:09
    And if I know them, they're doing everything they can to get machines out the door. But that's where we're at right now on the Mandalorian, August. Yeah, homeowners that ordered a pro are looking at August, a couple months. Do you think this is a push to get more people into locations to really build that scene up again? No, I don't think that's the motivator. Okay. Happy accident?
    25:33
    Not happy for homeowners. A push to drive more premiums than pros? I think, but the orders are the orders, so I think that's already okay. I think the thing that advantages the operators and to Stern's benefit to potentially get more homeowner sales is to prioritize having the pros go to the operators first when you make the pros. But otherwise, this, I'm going to guess, is just more about trying to address the backlog that they have, be it driven by the parts issues or what. It doesn't really matter what drives it, but just a desperate attempt to switch the lines and not constantly have to be altering during the month, but to go a whole month with your hottest game. I mean, Mando, I think, is going to outsell anything else this year, and I think it outsells anything that was released last year. So it seems weird to go a whole month without running it. Do you think that, because I always guessed, and a very educated guess, but I always guessed that they have to decide these runs prior to even announcement of these games. So you get their production schedule, and because of parts and because of running all of these different titles and lines, they probably almost have to allot spaces in between these other titles prior to even announcing the game. So if that is the case, then they don't know what their reaction will be to one of their new games. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. And I agree. But, I mean, and we know that they change things up, too. I mean, look at how much Elvira House of Horrors kept getting pushed back from when it was supposed to have its follow-up run. Yeah, so these schedules are all tentative. I'm just concerned because, saying all this aside, we're not even talking about the fact that, in theory, they're still planning to release a couple more games this year. If they're following the schedule that they typically do, yeah. And I'm really questioning if that's smart. Running the games or having a production schedule like this? doing another release while you have this much stuff still on the line still in the backlog do you think cerny anticipates the demand for some of these older titles to the degree that they receive them i think it's probably shocking to them i think that they try i you know it's just so many things it you know it depends like deadpool wasn't a unpopular game when it came out but it got really really hot like everyone's talking about deadpool now and how great they love the rules and then you have others which are you know slow burns stranger things to serve a slow burn guardians or slow burn where the game wasn't really well liked but then as code as code got fleshed out it it became more probably yeah batman was a is a good one too so so there are aspects where as they make refinements to the product on the software side it changes sometimes significantly the level of interest and that obviously puts uh what are the british like to say spanner in the works uh i have no reference sort of tossed in and whatever they were planning schedule even they had some numbers to do some predictions can dramatically just get changed because the demand has shifted but so i can understand maybe them not understanding that mando was going to be a huge hit just based off the license though i think you could have called you could have walked up to just about anyone on the street and realized that it would have been especially given that the gameplay is going over so well the interest is likely going to spike more and that might be something they didn't foresee but and maybe they changed it maybe but again i don't know because they have to go and how they've got their other licenses set up but you know more things like godzilla maybe it shouldn't yeah i guess depending on how it's like i don't know when the clock starts if the clock has already started or if it only starts once they go into production because i just again i just remember last late last year when gary stern said they were 5 000 games behind and then it's like they released Led Zeppelin. I'm like, why would you do that? I wish I was a fly on the wall. Because I'm always going back to Josh Sharp with Raw Thrills and his statement about the best time to, you move to the next game when the line slows. That's the manufacturing way. And their line definitely ain't slow right now. And what a great problem to have for Stern Pinball. Sure, sure. It's just, but you know, it's still a problem because again, as you pointed out, There are Mando buyers who are going to be upset being told that they're going to have to wait until August for the next production. The following run after that, listener, for pros and premiums is October. So, yeah, August, October. So I'm wondering if September is their next new game. Could be. But they're not running anything in July. Maybe it's July. No. It's too soon. They got to catch up on all the malvirus. I don't know if we'll see something as soon as September.
    30:28
    I would hope not. I mean, in theory, it could still just be backlogged. All these listeners are like, yeah, right. I want to see something tomorrow. You know what, listener? Dennis, tell me if you agree with this or not. I think it's time for Stern Pinball to maybe think about increasing their size yet again. Yeah, I mean, no, I don't agree. Okay. I still think that the bottlenecks, the parts is why I don't agree. I'm not sure that their space is... I don't think their space is the problem.
    30:57
    Just imagine having 25% more workers and an additional production line. I mean, if that's what you meant by size, I thought you meant like get another factory again. Well... And move to another new building. I'm not sure that they're actually maximizing the full space where they're at. That place is full. I think they could move again. I could see them upgrading again. I'm not sure it's worth it. Maybe just get an ancillary facility, run two facilities. Oh, like an annex or something? Yeah. Or another, buy back the old space and have that just be old game lines. You don't have to all be in the same building. I'm just saying, I wouldn't be surprised if we see Stern make movements to grow here. I wouldn't be either, but I think I'm not sure that they're actually pushing their workers to their full capabilities. if they're running into parts issues then it's just, I mean it is what it is and they're filling up with all the other stuff waiting for what little bits and chips and stuff they still need at the end of the day, all of you buyers out there for Mandalorian it's not going to matter, the dealer it's not going to, everybody's going to have to be patient if you guys want this game and you've done a really good job of being patient on some of the other titles that have taken a long, long, long time as well A smart droid once said, I can't lie to you about your chances, but you have my sympathies.
    32:22
    I'm so pleased that you looked that up while we were waiting. Ash. That's not what we do here now. Other production updates. So that was your Stern Pinball production update. Other news and production updates at Stern Pinball. They are still planning on running a small little Iron Man vault. run in September. So maybe there's your September explanation, but no immediate plans to build those again after. As well as Batman Premium. You're going to see that run in August. So that's right around the corner. But again, after that Batman run in August, no plans to build again. And then, listener, we also have some news about the Stern Mandalorian accessories. Stay tuned, because later in the show, we're going to be covering in depth when those are shipping, when they're going for sale, etc. Dennis Multimorphic has been teasing a new title. Jerry Stellenberg on the website states, Our next full P3 game kit is based on an amazing licensed theme. And Scott Denise is working on the audio package! Exclamation. End quote. Jerry Stellenberg. Wow. Not only a licensed theme, finally, an amazing one at that with Scott Denise on sound. That interests me. not gonna lie it should it's got it's got two things that should make it success make it more successful than any other game they've released it's got scott's name attached to it and while not everyone likes everything that scott does his music has gone over very well with the pinball community very true specifically saying that he's working on the audio package i think is a big win no matter what the game is and then as you noted finally a licensed theme amazing will be in the eye of the beholder but i think it's a smart move i mean that's been my number one criticism from a business strategy standpoint for multimorphic is and again we've talked about this ad nauseum killer app just neither you got it yeah killer app you gotta have you can go on pin side as much as you want and listen to people lecture you about how important and special original themes are they just don't sell well you have to work so hard to sell an original theme And what's the most successful one anyone can think of? It's Total Nuclear Annihilation, which Scott took to all sorts of shows before it was even decided that it would be put into production. And it's still only sold by 50. Yeah, that had a built-in theme. It all is very simple. To me, it comes down to this, listener. I am interested in Heist at $3,000, $2,500. I'm not interested in buying Heist at $10,000 to $12,000. Again, what Dennis was saying, if they can knock out a killer app, a license that people just flock to, then they're going to sell other products as well. And that's what Jerry has been trying to do over and over, build up this catalog, so that once these things do hit, if they ever do, other people will be more convinced to spend money on additional games to put in it. It sparked my interest. I don't want to misquote the guy, but on Pinside and different forums, Jerry's really been pushing the size of this thing. How many people just love this thing? Hopefully he's not overselling it. Until we know, we'll have to see. I mean, the biggest analogy, I guess, I wouldn't call it a backfire analogy because I still haven't played it, but by all reports, the game is excellent. But Hot Wheels. I remember when Hot Wheels came out and that was American Pimbo. I was like, everyone loves it. I mean, it was a huge, and it is. It's a huge license that no one cares about when it comes to pinball. Yep. It's not because there's no story to it. That's right. So, I mean, if Jerry's got micromachines, then I'm afraid it's going to be the same problem. But if he got Thundercats, then maybe it's different. I think you're okay there. You have to have an identifiable character storyline that people have nostalgia for. People like playing with cars, sure. but they don't have anything that they can and i know i know american pinball's response was well the the hot wheels game is actually based on the hit youtube series which no one knew about kids aren't buying the games well kids don't have any money because they're kids and the child labor law is preventing them from making an honest buck so and uh you were trying to sap the joy of children or something wasn't it a goal of yours what what was that no one should always limit the joy of a child or something. I think in the regards to you were discussing letting your kids do something. And I simply asked, why didn't you just consider limiting their joy? Some doesn't always have to be all about them and giving them everything they want. I guess so. I think that Jerry's got to be careful with the theme because you think it's going to be a music theme?
    37:12
    No, I don't think he's going to get what he wants from a music theme. Given the display screen and everything, you know, the, the core of the innovation of P3, my guess would be video game. Yeah, that would make a lot of sense. Because the screen lends itself to doing stuff related to video game. And they could probably take advantage of certain visual assets quite easily out of a video game. And he's not going to do like Stern does and has an animation team that can create their own. Right.
    37:43
    And it's a space no one else is really playing in that probably they should be playing in. That's one place. I will point to Pinside and say I think they're right. When they say, why aren't there video? Why is everyone just gun-shy to video game themes? Video games are the biggest entertainment category that I am aware of at this point. It's way bigger than music. It's way bigger than Hollywood. It's definitely way bigger than pinball. It's huge.
    38:07
    And there's such a plethora of well-known games going from what we would call single A all the way to triple A. So I'm sure you have a lot of room to find stuff that might not be that bad on the license cost front. But, man, if he had a movie theme that I really loved, I would love to see it on that Playfield screen. Maybe he got Tetris. Please, God, no. I want Scott's interpretation of Tetris music.
    38:34
    He'll just pull that music. It's a pretty classic. But we could Scottify it. Oh, man. Electronic tech. Yeah, that part.
    38:45
    We'll be right back. With Martin, a you, and Jonathan, the juice is loose, juiced in. This was quite the interview. Yeah, it really was. A lot of information. Dave Fix was there, so I mean, come on. You're going to get some statements there, some one-liners. That's true. Plenty of those. We also had owner of Ametron, Mukesh. Now the owner of American Pinball. It's all under Ametron now. Yeah, I guess that was the big announcement, was that they're no longer sister companies. All under Ametron, even though they'll still call it American Pinball. And then entering right stage yet again is Nermal. And Nermal was with the team during Oktoberfest. He was the guy wearing the outfit at Expo.
    40:02
    Remember the outfit? Then he exited. I remember in the interview it came up because they asked him if he was going to dress up again for the next game.
    40:10
    Joe Balser's gone. and we have a lot of changes over there. Did you know that American Pinball uses Bader Playfields? I do now. Bader Playfields. And Bader Playfields, people have been saying they hold up well. I think Bader's going to have a lot of people knocking on their doors in the future if they can sustain production speed that these companies need. Maybe then they'll fall into the same trap. I don't know. Nobody complains about American Pinball Playfields, that's for sure. So they've got that going for them. This is, I don't know how to interpret this. I may have this wrong, listener. They were talking about the goal of market share in pinball and how many machines they want to get out. I had a difficult time interpreting this, so my apologies if this is incorrect. But the goal I'm hearing is to earn half the market share in pinball, acknowledging that the full share is like 10,000 to 12,000 machines a year. And this was Mukesh discussing this. He said thus their goal is to create 5,000 to 6,000 machines a year. Did I hear that right? I don't remember this part. I may have had to turn my audio down when I was in the car at this point for some reason. It was odd because, number one, 10 to 12 pinball machines a year as the full share in pinball I think is low. I don't think it's ridiculously low, but I do think it's thousands low. I do too. But, again, I don't know. I mean, you sell games. I don't. What would I know? This is why I think it's a bit low. But, yeah, not substantially low. But I think – I had the number closer to like 20K. Yeah, I would think Stern knocks that out yearly pretty easily just alone. But they do have the market share. I would just set that aside and say they want to sell 5,000 to 6,000 machines a year. That's the bigger thing. I'm like, what? That's the relevant number. The reason I think that is lofty to a degree that will never be met is because they did also announce that they've still got two games this year, Dennis. 2021, two games, and they're both unlicensed. Yeah. You're not selling 5,000 to 6,000 pinball machines a year. I would phrase it as they're not selling 5,000 to 6,000 pinball machines this year. How about that? That's what I'll say. I'd go out on a limb and say next year as well, even with the license title. I don't think it's unlikely, but again, with Dennis Nordman and having his designs then coming out and they have the new licenses, maybe it's conceivable. Possibly. Bottlenecks on production should be alleviated by then as well. We'll see about that. AP also said, I thought this was just cute and precious, said the business is not solely profit-based. I mean, that's not their goal here. They're not looking to make money there. Just want to give back to the community around Elk Grove Village or wherever the hell they're at. Come on. All right. Come on.
    43:04
    Stop. I never put a lot of stock in those sort of statements. I guess as a privately owned business, they're not obligated to just try and benefit shareholders at the expense of everything else. So that part, there's that aspect. They don't have to just be trying to maximize shareholder value. but yeah it's sort of like lots of corporations even with shareholders have like charitable programs and stuff that they do to give back to their area communities and things so that's also not all that atypical to find ways to give back and it being a little more direct than just sort of saying things like we're trying to bring families together with pinball which is sort of what the argument was yeah i'm not saying it's not true i'm just saying sure and that might be a goal of things as well but all the pinball companies meet that then they're all bringing families together by the inherent nature of the product yeah i don't it gives me a little red flag when i hear things like it oh we're just we're not even trying if we break even that's great oh stop i want to believe you guys so when you make things like that i don't know what to believe anymore now regardless of the motivation if they're actually able to and that was part of the aspect of the interview that seemed to be getting stressed is it sounded like they're planning to hold their pricing steady. That true Their goal is the 5 to 6 machines a year and they actually not going to increase their costs and we been seeing other manufacturers do so That might just funnel people into their products anyway Yeah, and they are moving to a two-model system where they're calling the classic and the deluxe. The classic being – You don't like it? I don't – I get it. In a way, it would make no sense for all the companies to agree on how they're going to name all these models, but oh, my God. So confusing. The problem is that everyone's using part of the names of everyone else. So they've got Classic and Chicago's got Classic. They've got Deluxe and no one else has Deluxe. But Deluxe is like Premium, which is LE when it's JJP. And the JJP's got CEs, which are LEs to Stern. You see what I'm saying? It's very confusing at times, yeah. It's nauseating.
    45:16
    I can't argue there. The Classics are geared towards those location operators that are going to be running them. priced closer to like a hot wheels currently and then the deluxe models aimed for your home-based collector-based individuals with the extra flares he said nothing it was very confusing nothing is going to change on the play field but then he went into saying some of the some of his aesthetics like a mirrored back glass or well trim art blades it's a okay i'm going to push a little bit on that he indicated and this was david fix indicated that the layouts will be the same yes however i would disagree with his statement that changing something from drops to stand-ups means you kept the same game absolutely couldn't i couldn't agree with you more when he said that i'm like well no wait a minute now you have changed it you have changed the game i i get it you could i mean it's not as egregious or extreme as a you know moving mando mini playfield versus a static one or an upper play field right you know but it's anyone who's ever done like the firepower modification or played the variants from stern that went from stand-ups to drops knows they'll play acdc pro versus premium yeah there there you go you know they play different notably different so yeah you've but so you've kept the same layout but you've changed the gameplay and it sounded as if to me i don't know if this is just me but when i heard that it sounded it as if the classic edition they're actually going to start stripping stuff out because we got houdini that they gave an example of if that was a classic edition then instead of the milk can being a nice molded piece it'd be a 2d plastic instead of the planchette being a nice crafted wooden piece just another 2d plastic so i'm like that's what i would expect as well they're going to sell these things a la carte also yes you can buy the upgrades which i've um be candid i've spoke with him about being a bad idea. Some upgrades is fine, but if you have nothing that differentiates that deluxe model from that classic, nobody's going to buy the deluxe. There's no reason.
    47:28
    There's nothing special about it. If they're selling mirror back glasses, no. I think if they've got it so that it's more expensive to go a la carte and buy all the stuff versus going and buying the deluxe, that might be enough of a motivator.
    47:42
    Yeah. Just depends. You've got to have something special. Got to. Got to or you're not going to get the sales you want. Broken record.
    47:52
    Two games, 2022 as well, both licensed spring and fall. So it sounds like we're going to get something very soon from American Pinball here in 2021, an unlicensed theme. He said as soon as they reveal it, they'll be ready to start shipping them. And then one in the fall around expo time, you'll see another one. Yep. Their goal of going two games a year apparently is still planned to start this year. best of luck to them. I'm eager. I'm still interested. It fires me up because they build a good game. They talk a big game. So we'll see. Yeah, but I have to say in this interview, I thought they had a lot of grounds for a lot of it. Dave Fix wants to point out that they don't have play field problems and hey, I haven't been hearing play field problems out of American Pinball, so why not flex a little bit on the other larger manufacturers that still struggle. Yeah, very true. They also Also, I think we were talking about this. You noted this, that they were utilizing the P3 board system, multi-morphic kind of thing. Yeah, P3 Rock. They were using that in their past games, as was Spooky. Spooky was as well. Spooky and Haggis, yes. Yeah, but this time around, they were asked about, hey, you're Ametron, you're making electronic boards. Why wouldn't you just do it yourself? And they kind of said, stay tuned. So it sounds as if they're hinting at dropping P-Rock in their games at some point in the future. I think it's smart. Yeah, they went on a little bit about how it was important when they were pushing out Houdini that they needed to get a game out quickly and using things they knew would work made sense. But then they acknowledged that, yes, they make their own boards and there's an intention of doing a transition. So that's just been – I'm going to guess it's just coincidence because, I mean, again, I don't have sources everywhere, but I haven't been hearing a ton of complaints. But it's just an interesting coincidence that all the manufacturers that I was aware of that had some sort of involvement with Multimorphic for their board sets are moving away from that. That's true. And look at Haggis. They're going with the Fast. Yeah, they're still not in-housing. And then Ben Hack has obviously discussed in a prior interview about that he's been designing a board for Spooky. and he had indicated, he's the only one where I knew a reason and that he had indicated cost was the reason. I think Jerry needs this license theme for Multimorphic to hit. He really needs it to hit.
    50:15
    Well, we'll have to see. We'll have to see. Inherently, I think it will be more attractive than anything. But that same barrier, as you pointed out, is there. You have to convince people that it's worth the $10,000 initial investment. Well, a killer theme will do that. It can. I mean, as we've seen, other pinball machines creep up in price. and Jerry's been able to hold the price on the P3 platform, it should become financially a more and more attractive option, as long as he can hold the price. Man, just imagine the look on Jerry's face if he could replicate, like what Spooky did with selling out that quick on a Rick and Morty just on theme alone. He would be back in it. That horse would have been back in this race. But with his money earner, his bread and butter of that P-Rock system, I would speculate keeping him floating. If that's going away, he's going to have to hit. You're going to have to hit. I don't want to see him fold.
    51:10
    I was surprised that American Pinball discussed a key goal is to get their games on location, calling it, quote, the core group. I'm guessing your shock isn't that they want games on location, but rather that they said core group. Yes, it being core group. Their core group is location pinball machines. According to David, he said that the operators were bigger than the homebuyer pool. I was surprised at that statement. Quote, the operator pool is huge, end quote. Yeah, and then talked about it being larger than the homebuyer pool. That really surprised me because I know that used to be, like I remember in past interviews with Gary Stern, he used to say that, but Stern doesn't say that anymore, not in the U.S. Yeah. I think last I heard in some other countries, the operator market was still larger than the home buyer market. But that especially during the tail end of a pandemic. That's the thing. I was hearing like 50 50 ish before the pandemic. So I I'm not sure the statement is true. I'm not saying that I'm not saying the quote part of the operator pool is huge. I agree. The operator pool is still huge relative to what I'm not sure it's the majority larger than the home buyer pool, especially for American pinball. Jersey Jacks already went all in and be like, yeah, it's the home market. No, and I do think, though, that his statement wasn't that most of their games had been going to operators. It's that that's where they need to get their games into that. And that was what Hot Wheels was for. And I'm going to be honest, as a hobbyist, if I'm being totally transparent, it worries me a little bit when I hear a company that's building a nice, strong machine, their core group isn't me. And especially when they later in the interview say that titles are going to continue to be as family-friendly as possible. Another thing is a hobbyist isn't a collector. I'm like, eh, I don't know. I'm mixed. My excitement is mixed with American Pinball. Yeah, I come at it a different way. So I actually prefer hearing about operator focus on game design because to me that means that their priority is going to be have things that don't break. And I'd rather have stuff that's really reliable than hearing people whine about if Grogu's arm moves. Sounds boring. So you can say that, but that's what pure pinball is. What, boring? No, it's supposed to be mechanical, but it's designed for, it's a game designed to be on a location. That's the concept. So when you start drifting away from that, and people like you going in past episodes saying that you would be okay with having to replace stuff every 50 to 100 plays is not acceptable to people like me. That's ridiculous. Better stick with the classic model. So American Pinball saying that they want to keep things operator friendly to me is a big positive. On the family friendly thing, it got a little weird because different people in the interview were saying different things. So my read on that was, well, they stressed family and all of that. They also, I thought, made it clear that not every game is going to be like a Hot Wheels. Like Oktoberfest is arguably not family friendly.
    54:12
    It is, though. No, because it promotes alcoholism. so they pitched it as a as a carnival fair thing they didn't really yeah yeah i know how they pitched it i i thought they i thought they doubled best sack i thought they would double down on the alcohol portion of it i think they would have maybe they should have they would have sold more but regardless in the interview someone else said i don't remember which one of them who was responding clarified after there was that emphasis on family and all of that that they're not committing that every single theme is going to be a family theme but that the idea is they want families to play together so my guess would be we're probably not going to see like a rick and morty out of them but what stern puts out like they're not going to be necessarily more kid friendly than stern they can be the same as what stern does stern doesn't have the stern's edgy uh okay they take a lot if you say so no stern was edgy with metallica i can't think of a more i can't think of a recent edgy game iron maiden was it profane edgy it's well it's metal walking dead that way there was no profanity in it no profanity and no blood and dots like i'm thinking really lcd era stuff i'm struggling here i'm trying to think what the um i mean deadpool was pretty tame black night but tame black night yeah it wasn't flamethrowers friendly like yeah that stuff's family friendly enough i think it's enough for american pinball it's not all gonna be hey look a youtube kids show led zeppelin what your name you're just naming themes adults like They're all family friendly.
    56:03
    The only reason you don't have kids listen to Led Zeppelin music is it will melt their faces because they're not ready for how awesome it is. Whoa! Who do you think has a bigger splash in 2022?
    56:15
    American Pinball or Multimorphic? American Pinball. Who do you think has a bigger splash in 2021? one but given given uh that multimorphic announces their new game that is licensed this year yeah i mean currently i'd say multimorphic this year just because they've confirmed it's going to be licensed and with american pinball confirming that they're not going to be licensed multimorphic has a double double license there they get the scott denisi license to kill yeah and beats yeah i just i bet again the platform itself is not new Why is Multimorphic intriguing me? What the hell's happening to me? It's because you're always interested in licenses. Look what I've been... I tried this new thing. I went to the supermarket, tried this new thing. It's what I'm drinking. It's Kool-Aid. I'm drinking this Multimorphic Kool-Aid. I'll go further and say, with Multimorphic, I don't know. I admire their purity. A survivor, unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.
    57:22
    Maybe they've got it. More alien quotes. At least I'm sticking to Ash. Yes, I know. Spooky pinballs. You do know I have those scripts memorized.
    57:33
    I'm not doubting that at all. I can't even read them in front of me, and you've got them memorized. Spooky pinball is in the news. I think we're done talking about American pinball. Spooky, not much here. Spooky is just warming up on a new game announcement this month. I'm excited about that. Damn, I love new pinball. It's because of your sound. You're always just excited by new stuff.
    57:55
    It's because you sell them. It's because you're a shill. I don't sell for Multimorphic, thank you. And Spooky, jury's still out. Where are you at, Charlie? I don't know what Spooky's new game's going to be. If it's any of the rumored stuff they've been talking about... I hope it's Killer Clowns from Outer Space. Oh, God, damn. If it's Halloween, I'm ecstatic. That's great. I love that theme. If it's A Nightmare on Elm Street, I'm ecstatic. I love that even more. What's your favorite part from Halloween?
    58:20
    The nostalgia. you i like the i like the the film you don't have a certain like thing you want to see on the play field from the movie or no because i don't think it's oh i'm not like a big whore but i don't think it's a great awesome movie but the score the main character when you push the start button it's going to play the score okay the main character the ability to actually scare me in a pinball machine it's not so much the theme but just that for me the theme is recognizable see because what I'm getting at is I don't think you've ever actually seen this movie. Oh, I've not seen Halloween. I will agree. I've not seen the third one. The Season of the Witch that everybody talks about. Well, okay. And that's okay that you haven't seen that. I've not seen that. Some people love it, though. It's a weird one. I've definitely seen Halloween. Okay. Every time you've mentioned it, you speak in such vagary that I get this weird impression like you know it, but you don't. Yeah, don't remember much of it. Don't remember much of that or the second one. I've seen the second one. I'm a pretty big Halloween fan. I usually re-watch the movie every other year.
    59:28
    It's really old. There's not major set pieces that I would think of that I would necessarily incorporate. I still incorporate the inside of that home. Yeah, you can go with that. I'm wondering maybe just some iconic imagery. Maybe there's the headstone of the – I think it was from his sister that he puts in the house at one point. That might be something. The jack-o'-lantern from the cover art. Yeah, with the one-tooth thing. The weird cut from the nose to the tooth. What about the... I always recognize... I have to watch this film again. But the wardrobe, the makeup. What scene is that? At the very beginning with the sister. Okay. She's putting on her makeup. With the mirror and stuff. Yeah, maybe that. Or you do something perhaps with Dr. Loomis in some capacity. Oh, a psychiatric facility maybe. See, they don't have too much of that though. But the psych facility is only like two minutes of the film.
    60:21
    Yeah. I don't know. The town is where most of it's like looking out of windows and on the streets of the town. And I know most people probably love that more than they do Nightmare on Elm Street, but I think I'd prefer a Freddy Krueger, man. That's what I grew up with. That's what scared me. Freddy has a villain, has a personality. So that probably is what helped. Though I'm far more familiar with Halloween. And the set pieces of Nightmare on Elm Street were phenomenal. But it's been done before. Oh, here we go. It's been done before. Who gives a shit?
    60:52
    England did the call-outs for it. I remember because you made fun of the call-outs and how badly the voice actor did, and it was the actual actor. I know.
    61:02
    I remember these things, Zach. I would love to have another one of those. This is new Killer Clowns. I've thought of owning the Gottlieb. Just because I like the team. Killer Clowns works so well because there's so many fun, colorful things you can do. Just not Army of Dark. please. What? I don't want Army of Darkness. I want Arm with a Boomstick. I don't want Army of Darkness. I don't even know if I've seen that film in its entirety.
    61:29
    Probably not. I've seen Evil Dead and I love that. But something tells me it's totally different after that first film. The second one is like the first one but a little goofier would be how I describe it. It was just the right amount of goofiness in the Evil Dead. And then don't they just go all in on stupid people? I don't think it's going to be Evil Dead, though. I think Charlie handed out it to, it's too on the nose with him in the poster pose. Too on the nose. That's enough time for spooky. They've got to show us something. Show us the clowns. Before we get into everyone's favorite segment, I'm going to throw in a new segment, just a little quick rundown that I'm going to call The Game Has Changed.
    62:09
    And this is a nod to changing your game, which is modding the game, modifications to a game. I think they get it. The game has changed. Ain't that right, Brucey? Now you go.
    62:20
    You know, Bruce likes modding his games. Yes. Right up there with buying every topper for every game he owns. Yeah, he posted on Facebook. He was talking about new cabinet and back glasses. And I'm like, oh, you love modding games, Brucey. The game has changed, ladies and gentlemen, because the Mandalorian accessories are now available to order. Buy, buy, buy. Artblade, Shooter Knob, Side Armor, all will be tentatively shipping in August. There's your update. The game has also changed, though, because pricing has changed a bit. Not only on the Mandalorian accessories, but on other accessories as well.
    62:57
    Artblades for the Mandalorian now are $89.99 plus tax and shipping. That's an increase of $10, Dennis. Shooter Knob. Now, we know that the illuminated shooter rods by Stern Pinball run you about $1.40. But the standard ones that don't illuminate or interact with the game like that, usually about $90. Shooter NOM for the Mandalorian is $129.99. Plus the action shooter. Went up there. Armor. Everybody loved this Mando armor, didn't they? More interest in this armor than other titles for some reason. Typically about $250 from Stern Pinball, your standard pricing for armor. the Mandalorian armor $289.99 see a little increase there the topper pricing, pictures, etc. will be released at a later date and I talked about it on the Slam Tilt Podcast I'm going to say it here, I'm talking Deadpool baby another run of Deadpool toppers are slated to hit the market late summer, early fall how about it Dennis? see, they're finally making more of them they're making more, price has went up a little bit I think they were $400, $500 a couple years ago when they had them. They're gone, gone, gone. They're dried up. New price, $699.99. A bit staggering there. Yeah, that one isn't a bit. It's motorized. That's a full bite. That one went up a bite. And we just learned over this past weekend, if you guys were paying close attention, I haven't heard anybody talking about it yet, but they will, because Stern accessories have seen a price increase as well. A lot of them. Some of them, not so much. Like the Deadpool topper, seen that increase as they're going to rerun that, but all the other toppers are staying the same. Now your Art Blades, same. Mandalorian, remember I said standard, they're usually about $80 for Art Blades. They're now $90, $89.99 for all Art Blades from Stern Pinball. Went up $10. Shooter Rods is where we're seeing a big jump. For example, Led Zeppelin shooter rod, $90 typically. It went up $169.99. I've been told that some of these price increases are just due to manufacturing costs. It's just that's what it is. They're going up. Prices on materials are going up substantially, and they've got to increase the price every now and then on things like this if they want to keep making them. The Avengers Infinity Quest shooter rod that had a really cool straight down the middle video that's now deemed useless is now $179.99.
    65:33
    The whole shtick of that fucking video, Dennis, was the pricing. You know how much... Oh, gee. I didn't see that video because I don't own an Avengers.
    65:43
    It's about entertainment, dammit, and I worked so hard on that. So hard to make it an infomercial. It's useless. Well, now it's a mercial. It's useless. I've got to take it off the air. Damn it. Yeah, delete it. Bye, viewers. Sorry, analytics. Thanks, Stern.
    66:01
    The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Shooter Rod, now $129.99. The Armor even went up on Turtles, $269.99. Stranger Things Shooter Rod, $179.99 now. It's a beaut, though. It's so pretty. The Armor is now $269.99 for the Stranger Things. Elvira Shooter Rods, The Clown, The Evil Clown, $169.99 now. Elvira Armor jumped up as well, $269.99. The Jurassic Park, Mosquito Rod. Remember that one? That's a good one. Yeah. $179.99. So it went up about Monster Shooter Rod can even believe they making those still Guardian Shooter Rod The cute little Groot Baby Groot Not cute to the wallet $169.99. Deadpool Shooter Rod. An affordable $109.99. The Armor. Everybody like that Armor? Call your dealer or me. Get some of that. $269.99. So it sounds like the Shooter Rods went up and the Armor perked up a little bit on some of the models. We call that segment, The Game Has Changed.
    67:08
    Indeed it has. I guess we'll find out how many people were buying accessories for fun and how many are buying accessories for flex. Oh, don't differentiate that, listener. Don't listen to him. That's not true at all. You can own these things and enjoy these products without flexing. Go on, buy this stuff at these prices. What a dichotomy you tried setting there. Your wallet's weak if you can't afford these prices. That's what they're telling you. the side walls of your pinball machine to be as boring and bare as my co-host like his soul oh look at how great that is it's worth another 70 sure it's a great deal don't let the side cabinets bear your black soul no no no fill it with art oh dennis look i've been having so much fun here on the show i wanted to uh i'm always looking to freshen things up a bit right no we've Done pinball market trends for the whole show. Yeah, that's true. The whole podcast. Yeah, even going back. I don't even go back that far. I was just going back to our episode 40 whatever. It's almost like our relationship matured whenever we settled down and you put a ring on it. And that ring was pinball market trends, right? Yeah, I'm not sure what Beyonce has to do with this podcast. Well, just like the mods, if you like it, then you should have put a ring on it. Could have, should have, would have put a ring on it. Well, now the rings went up like 80%. Okay. So I wanted to freshen things up a little bit, and I thought the only way to really freshen up, because I'm not really allowed to sing, per se, on this show anymore, and people were loving that. You just have all the joy out of that like a young child on Christmas morning. So I thought, you know what? I really admire song, and the way to do song perfectly is to modify that. Some of these singers out there, listener, they're not the greatest songbirds in the world, are they? Think of people like, I don't know, like a Kanye West. He's more of a rapper, spoken word type of thing. He sings as well. He's got a beautiful voice in post. Same with somebody like a T-Pain. Whatever happened to T-Pain? He was in an auto accident. Really? I didn't know that. I just thought he was... I mean, he's alive. I just thought he was in love with a stripper. now i'm uh now zach gosh someone who's who's who claims to be so versed in music t i've heard t pain sing saying alka polka he's very good he does not need where you are going with us i know now really i understand why he actually yeah check on youtube sometime and see him sing alka polka oh i think he sucks at that but okay no you do you do not because you've never heard him sing He actually has an excellent voice. Really? Yes. Is it as good as Cher's, though? Because I believe in life after love. Cher is an icon. Oh, so you're a Cher fan? I like some of her songs, sure. Don't shit on Yeezus. Have you seen his shoes? Talking about Kanye West. See, at least I get references that you fly over your head every now and then. So I thought I'd freshen up. Dennis, you haven't heard this yet, buddy. Sorry, but I'm going to spring it on you right now. We got a new little flair today on this version of Pinball Market Trends. Ladies and gentlemen, your favorite pinball podcast segment that has become larger than life itself. You know it. You love it. Pinball Market Trends. It's an auto-tune edition. And Dennis Creasel, you know I love you so. While I hold him in my bosom so tight. Give a little smooch smooch on that supple soft cheek of yours. Boom! Wow, that was pretty bad. Come on! It made my voice sound beautiful, didn't it? It probably was an improvement to a degree, but you still have to... Autotune can only do so much. But see, now I've got the chops of Ron Hallett. Wow, that's ambitious. Yeah, absolutely. We'll try it again. Yeah, yeah, baby, that's what's up, because this week, trending up is Quicksilver. a hot new title from stern electronics quicksilver all green i know they can make fun of me over at slim that's fine it is training up because these things continue to go up in value and now that there is someone reproducing these play fields we're seeing a lot more fresh juicy ones out there that are dripping with clear coat in the good way not the chippy way quicksilver a lot of parts available for this. The drop target is still kind of hard to get. The original ones without that lip. Some of you restoration people know. Just convert to stand-ups, right? It's the same game.
    72:00
    Nice. Nicely done. Ladies and gentlemen, Dennis Creasel. Quicksilver is going up. You can find a pretty rough one. Pretty, pretty rough one for still $7,000. You're going to find a fully restored one around $9,000. New play field. Painted cab. It's a thing of beauty it's not a thing of beauty i'm going to edit that because it's ugly it's a green monster of ugliness back glass is okay i guess cabinet a little plain but numbers don't lie i only report the facts and turning up this week is quick silver would you ever own a quick silver dennis not at these prices i've actually never played it never found one at a show i don't know if i've played an original yeah i have i played the original one at schmitty's i like the idea of some of the shots but i it would never be not what it commands i just there's not enough game there i'd rather have a meteor yeah again i haven't played quicksilver but meteor would be like if i were to own a stern electronics game that would be the one i want of all the ones i've played also trending up up up is multimorphic what is going on i must have a fever and the only cure is a licensed title of Scott D'Anesi for Multimorphic. Come on! Don't fuck it up, Jerry. Don't fuck this up. But you're going to see a lot more interest in Multimorphic going forward, and people are now thinking Scott D'Anesi hasn't made anything bad. And I like the Multimorphic machine, the idea of it. Flippers still feel a little bit weird. And there's some downsides. But, overall, this company, they need a hit! and they may be trending up, just conceptually trending up right now. Numbers aren't lying here because they're not selling. So I know they're trending up. This is a bit, people. Deal with it. But unfortunately, trending down, down, down.
    74:08
    Zell Virus has a horse premium. That's sad. Why is that, Dennis? I don't know. Do people have to wait until 2023 for them?
    74:17
    I see what you did there. 2022. But they are trending down just a hair because there was a recent run.
    74:23
    Are they going to have a little biniologist run? They split those runs. It's supposed to be in May. I don't know. Once new fly into the marketplace, then it's going to bring prices down just a hair.
    74:36
    Secondary market and primary market. People were trying to sell them for $10,000 used. Nope. Back down again. We're back down to used ones are still going for a new in-box range, but the new in-box ones are going for higher, of course, on the secondary. But, you know, good dealers are going to sell them for what they're supposed to. Plus, you've got new games coming out. We've got new rumored games. The summer is hot with upcoming pinball titles. So you're going to see Elvira trickle down just a little bit. Now, wait until we get to October, November. that puppy's going to be back up on fire again mark my word it will be and then when we get that big giant run in 2022 you'll see that market come back down again it's kind of like the weather you want to save a buck you want to save a two you want to save a quid or is it quid a frank what is it is it a quid is that a monetary form yeah slang for british pound oh is it okay a euro what's the goofy ass one from australia what's that called loony or is that no canadians have loonies. Australians use dollars. Do they? Let's do the Canadians, but I think the loon is on the Canadian dollar or something. I don't know where it comes from. Oh, it's a bird reference? I thought so. Canadians are weird. Yeah, save a loonie or two in this week's Deals of the Week!
    75:57
    Bye, bye, bye! Deal of the Week this week is Bias Edition because Deal of the Week this week is from Flippin' Out Pinball. Look, I tried to find a Deal of the Week that didn't include me on pin side, but they're not to be found. Sure you did. Not to be found. I didn't try very hard. Everybody's trying to screw you over. That's why you get the warm and fuzzies when you come over. It's a flippin' app. You know what they say, this is when in doubt. Get yourself a pre-owned Avengers Infinity Quest Premium. It's right up your alley. Din-din. Upgrades. Get a beautiful custom metallic orange powder coat on this particular one we got in on trade. Art blades, a couple other mods. Now, these things on the secondary market, the premiums used, are going for about new in box prices. People are still really trying to get their hands on new in box Infinity Quest premium and pros. With this one, it's still the week because you're going to be under new in box price. And you get the upgrades. We could try to sell this thing for $7,300 cash pickup. I could try to sell that without these upgrades, but I'm giving you these upgrades. $7,300. Come pick it up. I haven't even advertised it yet. I haven't even put it up. Buy, buy, buy! Come get it. But the one thing you're not going to be able to find at Flippin' Out Pinball or anywhere on the pinball network is Deals of the... Deal of the what in the frank? What in the quid? What in the loon? It's on Pinside right now by the username Multiballmaniac1. Got to be a maniac to try to be selling an Aerosmith original topper. Pretty topper. I actually like one. I wouldn't mind having one myself, but not for $2,200.
    77:38
    Dennis, I'm with you now. What the hell is happening? I feel like I've created a monster, and now it's attacking the fucking town. Yeah, it's speculative. I mean, it's sort of like Ron and Bruce will slam tilt, bear some culpability for the rapid increase in Stern Electronics pinball prices, and you bear some culpability, not all, but some culpability on this phenomenon regarding that pinball toppers only appreciate and people are speculating with them. What have I done? Abomination. Dennis, for God's sake, this is the first time that we've encountered a species like this. It has to go back. All sorts of tests have to be made. These toppers are getting out of control. No, normally this can't be stopped. I would nuke the site from orbit. I think it's safe to assume it isn't a zombie.
    78:30
    It's like you have IMDB loaded and you're just reading down the list. I do. It's so painful. I do. I'm sorry I compared you to Ash there. See, thank you. You give me an Android. I'm so animated and you give me a damn half. He was their science officer. He was very important to the crew. Oh, Dennis. So that's your deal of the what in the hell is going on with Multiball Maniac. $2,200. People, people, people, people, people. If you need an Aerosmith topper that bad, here's a way to pay less money for it. It'll take a little time, but contact everybody on that Pinside community owner list for Aerosmith. Ask them if they've got a topper and tell them you'll pay $1,200 for it. I just saved you $1,000. This is ridiculous. Maybe a nice guy, though, but ridiculous. Multiball Maniac, I'm checking you out here. Don't good morning Sunday bump this shit. But stop. Get out of here. And ladies and gentlemen, love it or hate it, you can't avoid it. As if you couldn't love this segment anymore, but now it's a certified banger. Hot banger. Pinball market trends for you. Market trends, baby. Pinball market trends.
    79:51
    Trademark. Like that, Dennis? No. that's gonna be done in post no don't do it in post i'm gonna edit that out all right let's close down this love shack baby email is the pinball network at gmail.com dennis where can people catch you if they want to email your chat sure as the rock lobster of this episode i can be reached at eclectic gamers podcast at gmail.com you can also just go to Facebook.com slash CollectedGamersPodcast and shoot a message over through that system. Go listen to the last EGP episode. It was a really good one. And I'm very appreciative that you guys received some feedback about the distribution discussion. And it was nice to hear even Tony soften up a little bit. Did he shave his mustache or something? Felt a little soft. And he just listened to the other arguments that came in. Yeah. And it was a nice balanced discussion and always is over there. So got to go check that out. That was a good episode. You guys have been kind of on fire lately. I'm going to give you credit. No, it's not the pinball show, but it's good. Yeah, well, we can't afford auto-tune, so.
    81:06
    Garage band for the win. You can email me at the pinball network or at sdtmpinball at gmail.com, a YouTube video series on pinball, arcade, rubber bands, et cetera. And if you're ready to buy a brand new pinball machine, why not buy it from people like Coingiver? Flippin' Out Pinball. That's our AKA now. Flippin' Out Pinball. DBA-ass Coingiver. Yeah. What? Huh?
    81:30
    Businesses, sometimes they'll establish a DBA, a Doing Business As name. Oh. That'll be different than their official name. I did not know that. No. Okay. I'm such an arcade pinball nut that when I hear DBA, I hear Dollar Bill Acceptor. Oh, I understand. Everybody needs a DBA cord? They don't come standard in Sterns now. You can buy a flipping out pinball machine. The product showcase this week is Artblades. We've got a lot in stock for your, whether it's Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy. We've probably got it in stock. TMNT, got a lot of those. I just wanted to showcase these because a lot of people are intimidated by installing Artblades. It's sticky. They're like, how do I do that with the play field? There's two easy ways to do it. You can decide. one if you got a pal on the spike machines for stern pinball machines there's only a couple plugs to remove the entirety of the play field just put it rest it somewhere it is heavy be prepared but rest it somewhere safe the way i do it typically if i have angles on both sides of the pinball machine i will pull the play field out as far as i can don't pull too hard to fall in the cannon but pull it out rest it up or have somebody hold it pull off the back application of the art blade spray it down with windex very liberally right dripping shake it off shake it off and then just shimmy it just shimmy it left right left right into place focus on the back focus on the back you got it around that little circle in the back there you know what i'm talking about then kind of they're they're made of a thicker vinyl so it's really easy to get out air bubbles and then lift up the play field and then work your way all the way up to the front once that's done play field back down all the way up to the front shimmy shimmy liberal windex boom boom boom focus on the back line it up flip up play field to service position shift shift shimmy squeegee squeegee wipe it down get all that windex out before you turn on the electricity and boom it's done easy peasy might as well try it and look unless you want to have a dark, hollow soul on the side of your pinball machine. Nothing creates a world like licensed Stern Property Art Blades. Ding!
    83:41
    I'm not intimidated by the install, just their new price. Also available right now, Jurassic Park Pro from Flippin' Out Pinball. You guys are going to complain when these are gone. Might as well buy them. TMNT Premiums we've got. Turtles Pro, I think, pre-order. That's getting ready to come back in, as well as Avengers. getting ready to come back in. So get your name on the list for those. But if you're ready for a pinball machine right now, I can ship you out today a Led Zeppelin Pro or Premium. Iron Maiden July spots are filling up quick, and we've got a big old order for July on Iron Maidens. But that's been one of the hottest pins in the last couple months for some reason. People are pre-ordering the heck out of those. Same with Hot Wheels if you want it. We'll get you on the list. Guns and Roses LE, we'll get you on the list. Jurassic Park Pro Arcade with the shooter guns. Pew, pew. MMR Topper it's another one that I'm going to hear you guys bitch moan and cry once they're gone I just picked up an MMR Standard remake and I'm wanting a topper if you ever think you're going to own a Medieval Madness remake buy this topper and I always forget to talk about Escalaris that's a big product this year everybody's wanting an Escalare do you have a stove do you own a stove Dennis yes I have a stove Escalare can help you get it up or down stairs do you know that I did not next time I move the stove I'll keep that in mind washer and dryer got you down well Escalera will get you up the stairs I did want to give the listeners an update that Escalera right now when you're ordering they've ran into the same parts delay issues as every other manufacturer in the world so the turnaround is about 6 weeks right now typically 2-4 weeks turnaround for Escalera but right now we're about 6 weeks so if you think you're going to need one this summer or fall go ahead and let's Get you an order in now. Banners, Alien Pre-Orders, Golden Tees, 2021's coming up. You name it, Flippin' Out's got it. That's why we're here. Mermaids.
    85:36
    TPN last week was a final round pinball podcast, episode 35, called DeMullet. Is that even a word? I had a hard time typing that out. DeMullet. I think it's a Canadian word. It's another solid, solid episode by Jeff T. Ellis and Martin Robbins. They had guest Carl D'Angelo on. Really, really good listen. and those guys are doing really, really well. As well as, I think it posted yesterday, Freeplay Pinball Podcast Episode 3.
    86:02
    Still with no logo, people! You've got one job. Amanda's like, I'm so sorry, please. And Bill Webb's like, it is what it is. TPN, this week we should have an on-the-record pinball podcast episode 2?
    86:19
    Hopefully they're not turning to guests already. They're turning to sex appeal, I've heard. So you're going to have to tune in for that one because right now Tom is kind of taking that show away from everybody. He's a frontrunner there for new character of the year in podcasts. Why do we have a new Discord channel?
    86:40
    I don't know. I don't know what goes on in there. It's centered around Tom Graff and modeling. It's my favorite Discord sub-channel.
    86:52
    Oh, man. I'm going to get a t-shirt that just says I love Tom Graff on it. They'd sell. So listen to that. I don't know what other podcasts are coming up.
    87:01
    Silver Ball Chronicles is probably coming up fairly soon. Oh, yeah. That is coming up soon. It's been fun, gang. Thanks for tuning in and continuing the support over here. And remember, if you want to support me, just be decent to me as a human being. Be logical, be factual, and bye, bye, bye. If you want to support Dennis Creasel for less than the price of a cup of coffee, you can read some of Dennis' work on the Choose Your Adventure series we were alluding to. And check out the show notes and on Facebook. You'll see a link to go purchase that. It's greatly appreciated because a lot of good friends associated with that. For Dennis Creasel, I'm Zach Minney. Whether classic or deluxe, Bader is a must. I like that. You can use that one, David. And always practice safe, pinball. Do you believe in life after pinball? Up. No. Oh, shit. Up there he went. So long, everybody. What am I supposed to do?
    88:04
    Sit around and wait for you. Well, I can't do that. What? I'm just, I'm sorry. So, I just wrote back. You just got to win Gary over. Just send it with a bottle of vodka next time. Jesus.
    88:47
    I can feel something inside me say I really don't think you're strong enough now