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Ep 104: Writing Letters to Al Pacino with Eric Meunier

LoserKid Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·1h 11m·analyzed·Mar 14, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Eric Meunier on designing The Godfather: buildability, gameplay depth, licensing, and legendary musician cameos.

Summary

Eric Meunier, designer at Jersey Jack Pinball, discusses the development of The Godfather pinball machine—his third major release. The interview covers design philosophy emphasizing buildability and repairability, gameplay mechanics across five selectable families with distinct playstyles, three wizard modes (Kiss the Ring, Baptism, Honor), and deep rule systems managing multiple economies (points, influence, soldiers, weapons, territories). Meunier details how he crafted the Baptism mode around the iconic baptism scene, collaborated with voice talent, licensed hundreds of lines from the films, and secured contributions from Slash (Guns N' Roses) and Mark Tremonti (Alter Bridge) for the soundtrack.

Key Claims

  • The Godfather whitewood began November 2020; full development took until 2022 launch

    high confidence · Eric Meunier stated: 'I was shooting the Godfather whitewood November of 2020' and discussed COVID manufacturing delays through 2022

  • Jersey Jack Pinball plans to release at least two games per year, with a goal of one game every nine months

    high confidence · Eric Meunier: 'the plan is to release at least two games a year... game every nine months is the goal'

  • Jersey Jack has grown from 4 employees in the Chicagoland office to over 100 total employees

    high confidence · Eric Meunier: 'when I started at jersey jack i was one of four people in the chicagoland office and now we have well over 100 people employed at jersey jack'

  • The Godfather features 22 super skill shots, all requiring called-shot selection rather than random crossing

    high confidence · Eric Meunier: 'there are 22 super skill shots... you have to choose it and hit it you can't just shoot for it and cross your fingers'

  • The game contains four unique multiballs with Turf War being the primary entry point

    high confidence · Eric Meunier: 'there are four unique multiballs in the game. I recommend going for Turf War. That's the best one'

  • Eric Meunier directed voice talent including actor Kevin McNally (Pirates of the Caribbean films) and rocker Slash

    high confidence · Eric Meunier described directing both McNally on Pirates and Slash on Guns N' Roses, stating 'directing voice talent is something that I never thought I would be doing'

  • Slash spontaneously offered to create music for Godfather after learning about the game during Guns N' Roses sessions

    high confidence · Eric Meunier: 'I said, oh, yeah, the next game that I'm doing is The Godfather... he's like, Eric, I have to do that music for you'

  • Mark Tremonti (Alter Bridge guitarist) contributed custom Sinatra-style music for the game

    high confidence · Eric Meunier described meeting Tremonti after his Pirates delivery was damaged, Tremonti visiting the factory, and later sending a Sinatra cover; Meunier then licensed it for Godfather

Notable Quotes

  • “I wanted to be able to capture the best parts of The Godfather, the most remembered lines, the most remembered scenes, and get them into the game, but do it in a way that has the action and the excitement that would keep players vested and interested in the game.”

    Eric Meunier @ mid-episode — Core design philosophy: balancing cinematic drama with playable excitement

  • “The game has to be able to defend itself from good players and from bad players so that the game plays and does what it's supposed to do every time it gets powered on or every time the start button gets hit.”

    Eric Meunier @ mid-episode — Operational design priority: reliability and player-proofing for location operators

  • “I'm going to crank up my weapon multiplier, and I'm going to play this multiball for 10 seconds with a 3x or a 4x or a 5x... your strategy that you're choosing... is definitely like a choose-your-own-adventure kind of idea.”

    Eric Meunier @ mid-episode — Game design: multiple strategic economies and player choice layers

  • “Slash is such a pinhead at heart. Like, and he just loves the creativity that goes into making games and making anything. I mean, he's so talented at what he does. And he appreciates the creativity of others.”

    Eric Meunier @ late-episode — Personal anecdote about working with Slash; reveals his genuine passion for pinball

  • “I don't often see him have big emotions. Right at the end, when he looks up at the camera, he gets this grin where he knows what he just did was so cool.”

    Eric Meunier @ late-episode — Describes moment when Slash saw his Easter egg in-game music

  • “Keith was a guy who wrote who wrote the concept of the rules... he's like you need to take a step back because this is over the top crazy... when you take out their lieutenant do they lose points or they lose balls or they lose a whole bunch of stuff. But when you take a step back... if I'm player one and I kill off everyone else in the game, you're negative 5 million points before you've even plugged a ball.”

    Eric Meunier @ mid-episode — Game design refinement process: rules balancing and reining in overly aggressive mechanics

Entities

Eric MeunierpersonJersey Jack PinballcompanyFlip N Out PinballcompanyJosh RooppersonScott LarsonpersonThe Godfather

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: The Godfather pinball machine by Jersey Jack Pinball officially launched. Eric Meunier confirms it is shipping/available to players.

    high · Hosts reference 'rumors probably a month or two ago that godfather was coming to TPF' and 'you guys dropped this last week', indicating launch occurred within days of this episode recording.

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball has relocated key operations to New Jersey, enabling faster problem-solving and daily factory walkthroughs by designers. Hired over 100 employees (up from 4 in Chicagoland office).

    high · Eric Meunier: 'being able to be out on the line in 10 seconds instead of 10 hours' and 'when I started at jersey jack i was one of four people in the chicagoland office and now we have well over 100 people employed'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Jersey Jack Pinball shifting to aggressive release schedule: minimum two games per year with target of one every nine months. Represents significant acceleration from historical 12-18 month gaps.

    high · Eric Meunier: 'the plan is to release at least two games a year... game every nine months is the goal'. Josh Roop noted historical pattern: 'you guys have always had probably a good 12 months to 18 months between each title'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: The Godfather exemplifies deliberate design for manufacturing efficiency: standardized mechanical components (three identical diverters, Newton plate matching lift ramp mechanism) reduce parts inventory, inspection, and assembly complexity versus prior designs.

    high · Eric Meunier detailed: 'there's three diverters in the game two of them are the exact same diverter like with the same coil the same spring the same brackets' and 'the plate um that's the newton plate... is the same exact mech as the lift ramp mechanism'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.213

0:00
thanks for tuning in to loser kid pinball podcasts i am josh roop with me my co-host as always scott larson we are on episode 104 and there's it's been an insane two weeks like holy crap and one of the reasons that it's been insane has to do with our guests it's on this time but But before we get to him, if you want a Godfather, where are you going to go, Scott? I'm going to call Zach and Nicole Minnie at Flippin' Out Pinball, and they will hook you up with all your needs. And you know what? Make them an offer they can't refuse, and they'll send you a game. Definitely.
0:41
And speaking of Godfather and making an offer we couldn't refuse, holy crap. This is his third game out of the gate. He's lit the world on fire. People are very much taking notice at all the stuff he is doing. we have eric menear how you doing eric i'm doing great guys thanks for having me back always well we appreciate you were like the uh how do i put this you were the you were our first guest yes i was gonna say uh yeah yeah don't go there okay okay but no we appreciate you coming on man this game looks fantastic thank you i'm hearing a lot of wonderful things they say this is probably the best shooting jjp anyone's seen so far i've talked to i love how you guys are getting these out the gate it's like you show it and next day people are playing this yes we're getting a ton of feedback and and people are loving the shots on this game it's just amazing yeah it really came together and part of the thing part of the way that we build our release is to have games in boxes and that means having games fully built developed vetted with complete code ready to go. You can play all the modes in the game that are there. You can play Kiss the Ring. You can play the Baptism. You can play Honor. Those are the three wizard modes in the game. They are playable. You can get them. You can get to them on location.
2:06
Now, if a location operator's got it set up or the posts are out, it might be a little bit harder to get to. But you can get to them. You can play them.

  • The game uses standardized mechanical components (e.g., three identical diverters, Newton plate matching lift ramp mechanism) to reduce manufacturing complexity

    high confidence · Eric Meunier detailed: 'there's three diverters in the game two of them are the exact same diverter... the plate um that's the newton plate... the same exact mech as the lift ramp mechanism'

  • Pirates required more manufacturing hours per game than Guns N' Roses due to greater mechanical complexity

    high confidence · Eric Meunier: 'It would take Hours per game To Manufacture a Pirates Than it did for Guns N' Roses'

    • game
    Pirates of the Caribbeangame
    Guns N' Rosesgame
    Slashperson
    Mark Tremontiperson
    Kevin McNallyperson
    Pat Wallerperson
    Richieperson
    Jackperson
    Keithperson
    Zach (voice talent)person
    Zach Sharpeperson
    Nicoleperson
    LoserKid Pinball Podcastorganization
    Straight Down the Middle: a pinball showorganization
  • ?

    licensing_signal: The Godfather features custom music contributions from Slash (Guns N' Roses) and Mark Tremonti (Alter Bridge), plus hundreds of licensed lines from The Godfather film trilogy. Represents high-profile music licensing strategy.

    high · Eric Meunier confirmed Slash contribution and described Mark Tremonti's Sinatra cover being licensed for the game. Meunier also discussed extracting lines from film transcripts.

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: The Godfather balances casual play (hit blinking targets, stumble into multiballs) with deep rule systems: three economies (influence, soldiers, weapons), family selection, skill shot selection, mode chaining via stained glass window adjacencies.

    high · Eric Meunier: 'You don't have to know about any of them. You just want to whack a ball... But for the players who are really into rules and managing play styles... It's all there for the player.'

  • ?

    operational_signal: Game designed with location operator concerns front and center: ball release mechanisms prevent stuck balls, power loss failsafes, rule accessibility allows casual play without tutorial, mechanical simplification reduces repair complexity.

    high · Eric Meunier: 'If you physically lock a ball somewhere and you're depending upon the player hitting it, what if it's your five-year-old who's playing?' and discussion of compound ball release on power loss.

  • ?

    content_signal: The Godfather receiving extensive media coverage via Straight Down The Middle featurette and LoserKid Podcast. Hosts describe it as generating substantial community buzz and player feedback within days of launch.

    high · Josh Roop mentioned Flip N Out Pinball featurette on Straight Down The Middle about mechanical details. Hosts report 'we're getting a ton of feedback and people are loving the shots on this game.'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Jersey Jack Pinball experienced leadership transition: Pat Waller (former key employee) has left; Richie has recently joined. Timing and full scope of role changes unclear, but indicates internal restructuring.

    medium · Josh Roop asked: 'Is there a different mentality now down at JJP with bringing everyone in from Jersey and then Pat Waller's now gone from what I understand and Richie's now there?' Eric did not directly address personnel changes.

  • ?

    design_innovation: The Godfather introduces novel compound ball holding mechanism with automated release on power loss, preventing operator service calls and stuck-ball customer frustration. Engineering solution to operational pain point.

    high · Eric Meunier: 'what happens when the power goes off and there's a ball stuck back there... you could get it in there but what happens when the power goes off... game has to be able to release a ball whenever we whenever the game wants to'

  • ?

    product_concern: The Godfather development required navigating licensor (Paramount Pictures/Godfather estate) sandbox constraints. Licensor approved creative freedom on scene selection and character introduction but maintained control over brand integrity.

    high · Eric Meunier: 'we definitely had to play in their sandbox... they gave us the freedom of using whatever scenes we wanted... but We're still playing within their sandbox in order to make it work within the brand.'

    • 2:16
    Okay, so this is your third game. Yes. So typically your first two games or so, you're feeling the game, you're feeling the design process out. And I know that you I know that you have you know, you're a mechanical engineer, you're an electrical engineer. You grew up in a pinball family. So all of those things together. how did you what did you learn between one and two and what did you learn between two and three to bring godfather to to the show well focusing more um focusing a lot on the buildability and repairability of a game is is something that i've always kept as part of my designs Pirates had a lot of stuff in it A lot of stuff And it would take Hours more per game To Manufacture a Pirates Than it did for Guns N' Roses was easier to assemble It wasn't necessarily less stuff in it It was just assemblable In an easier way And the same can be said for Godfather Refining using more of the standard parts or a common part that I designed you know there's there are three diverters in the game two of them are the exact same diverter like with the same coil the same spring the same brackets one of them only has one part difference and it's the top part but otherwise it's the same coil same spring the same that allows us to get parts into the factory a lot faster um there's less things fewer things to inspect and verify that they are correctly matched um to to our drawings and it just makes the game come together in easier way when you kind of established the ground rules that here's a mech and we're just modifying one thing otherwise there's three of them in the game and here's another mech the uh the plate um that's the newton plate that's in the compound area of the godfather it's the same exact mech as the lift ramp mechanism just the top plate is cut slightly differently but otherwise same coil same release latch same switch same wiring all that stuff so it's like they can build those two things at the station a lot faster than they would build two unique mechs. And you have to train your assembly line only how to build one mech, and you can build one fixture for getting those mechs built if you are able in your design to use very similar components in more than one spot. What I like that you guys have looked at also that I'd never noticed until I was listening to the featurette on the flipping out was just little things like the compound ball. you could get it in there but what happens when the power goes off and there's a ball stuck back there yeah i never thought of that and i guess that's just something you guys are constantly trying to keep an eye out for and i was like that would be terrible to get a game on location and then you can't get the ball out but right it's very ingenious how you guys did that too thank you um being able to release a ball whenever we whenever the game wants to is an important thing. If you physically lock a ball somewhere and you're depending upon the player hitting it, what if it's your five-year-old who's playing? And they lock another one in there. Now what? Now you've got two balls stuck in there and you can't do anything about it.
    5:58
    So the game has to be able to defend itself from good players and from bad players so that the game plays and does what it's supposed to do every time it gets powered on or every time the start button gets hit.
    6:15
    One, how long have you been working on Godfather? I was shooting the Godfather Whitewood November of 2020. Okay. The first, like, real down and dirty, you know, I had two flippers and a bunch of rusty sheet metal that I screwed down to a plank of wood. It didn't have the moving, articulating Capo Regime mech in it, and it didn't have the crazy lift ramp auto-feeding wire form that had this unique shape, but it had the rough shots and kind of where targets might be and stuff like that. And the idea is, you know, I think I had like a rubber duck sitting where the capo regime would be. And, you know, idea I had like on written in magic marker, like compound area Newton ball, question mark. you know would i just have a ball in there that you would kick back and forth i'm like yeah that's that works it's been done i'd rather you know figure out how i can put a real ball in there and then get the real ball back out so it's been uh it's been a while and then with covid like never letting go and being in a manufacturing facility having people dropping like flies every other week uh you know coming back of course but yeah having being required to be out of the office for 10 days at a minimum um you know it took a while especially with manufacturing getting parts in the doors i mean it just it seemed like anything that could cause a delay did cause a delay and from 2020 to 2022 well and i gotta say i'm impressed because we heard rumors probably a month or two ago that godfather was coming to tpf and i was just like that has not been jjp style like you guys have always had probably a good 12 months to 18 months between each title and so like there's just no way and then you guys dropped this last week and i was like holy cow um i'm impressed that you guys were able to do that because you're still feeling the effects of covet as well absolutely um i know you can't speak for the company as a whole but is this the game plan because it proves that you guys can do it i just didn't know i guess jack has been touting that you'd be doing it for a while so it looks like this is the thing going forward right the game plan is to release at least two games a year i mean game every nine months is is the goal what we're trying to get um but yeah getting building the team um and getting the people in that we need to get in in order to make things happen that's uh that's part of part of growing the company yeah when i started at jersey jack i was one of four people in the chicagoland office and now we have well over 100 people employed at jersey jack um and it's it's great you know growing with the company so the other question i have with that too speaking of hiring people and whatnot. Is there a different mentality now down at JJP with bringing everyone in from Jersey and then Pat Waller's now gone from what I understand and Richie's now there? I wouldn't say it's a different mentality, but we have a lot less communication gap, right? When I'm able to be out on the line in 10 seconds instead of 10 hours, it makes solving problems and answering questions and making adjustments a lot faster, a lot easier, a lot more robust. I walked through the factory every single day and I'm able to, you know, notice small nuances that, well, something, something doesn't match here. You know, what, what happened? And I can kind of trace back to the station where it was built and see like, okay, well, you know, this part is swapped. So they're not assembling it in the right order. Maybe that's how it got out of adjustment. Yeah. But just being able to be there and provide that feedback loop is helpful. Gotcha. Okay, so we are at a show. I'm walking up to the game. This is my first encounter with Godfather. Walk me through the game. All right, so first, hit the start button and you choose your family. There are five different families to choose from.
    10:37
    Choose the one that matches your play style best. Are you someone who focuses on modes? and wants to completely blow up mode scoring, you're a very intense single ball player who can really manage the risk reward, the sweaty palms that come when, okay, I'm going to pass, I'm not going to cash out yet, I'm going to do the job objective one more time, I'm going to shoot it back in there. Oh, I still got 20 seconds left on my timer, I think I can do it one more time. All right, now I'm going to crank my weapon multiplier and shoot it in there and get a times 10 super cash out and really blow it away? Or are you a player who revels in multiballs? There's a family who makes multiball ball saves last longer and makes multiball scoring higher. Are you someone who's a much better combo shooter? There's a family that focuses on influence and the rewards that happen with influence. Influence is built by shooting combo shots around the game. two other families have two different powers that also like are slightly different ways of playing the game each family has its own drawbacks as well so maybe i wouldn't open with that it's probably a lot for just the first very first thing you do but sure pick your family okay their abilities pick your family now you can plunge a ball you short plunge into a pop bumper you can mid plunge into the compound area and those will advance some multi balls give you some big points if you want to go crazy there are 22 super skill shots that you can choose from you have to choose it and hit it you can't just shoot for it and cross your fingers you gotta choose it it's a called shot it's a called shot you're gonna babe ruth it right you're that's where i'm gonna go that's what i'm gonna hit and you can really blow up things um instead of just advancing you toward a multi-ball it'll start the multi-ball if you can make that shot um and as a whole there's It's groups of them that are valid and have similar rules. And then there's 22 individual ones that all have just crazy things.
    12:43
    After you make your skill shot, there are four unique multiballs in the game. I recommend going for Turf War. That's the easiest one. You can kind of fall into it. You collect ventures. We specifically made the ventures that are available the first time you walk into the game, regardless of the family you pick. They are ventures that are hittable from the lower flippers. okay so you can hit those ventures then you can shoot either orbit and lock balls and you can build your territories um hitting that bad guy right up the middle will get you some big points and will work you toward another multi-ball so flail around hit the stuff that's blinking on the play field you'll get into a multi-ball you get into turf war and then keep nailing that bad guy up the middle and you'll be able to uh take out those capos what was your mindset heading into Godfather and what was your ultimate goal after all that? So there's a lot of people who have very strong memories of the first time they saw Godfather, what it means to them, what that franchise means to them, how important it is in our cinematic history. There's a lot of people who say that The Godfather is the best film ever made.
    13:50
    It is a fantastic film because of the mood it sets, because of the drama that is in there. I wanted to be able to capture the best parts of The Godfather, the most remembered lines, the most remembered scenes, and get them into the game, but do it in a way that has the action and the excitement that would keep players vested and interested in the game. It's hard to keep people excited in just a drama in a movie that's mostly about dialogue and the influence or interaction between different, very powerful characters with the underlying tone of violence and action. But the violence and action in Godfather is very sparse. There's a couple of very memorable scenes. Most of the movie is about the drama that happens outside of the action. so I wanted to be able to tell a story set in the Godfather universe which is you're a member of the family of any one of the five families and you're trying to take over New York City there are these iconic scenes and we base the modes around the iconic scenes in the movies but we wanted to come up with bad guys that you were fighting that you were taking out came up with all those different themes from the movie like something like a turf war where you're expanding your territory people are attacking your your stronghold your compound visiting the old country going to Sicily and seeing the enemies that are hidden there and exploring those regions and then just being able to kind of take in the ambience of the big big scenes like the baptism how would I portray the baptism in a pinball machine well you you have to go and take out the other heads of families. How would I do that? Well, they're going to be protected. So I'm going to build this rule around taking out their bodyguards first, their capo regimes, the lieutenants of the family, before you can get to this big mode, this baptism mode. But in that mode, showing Michael in the church and then showing his lieutenants taking out the other heads of families is something that, yeah, we can do that. We can leverage these assets and show the most iconic scene in film history in an exciting way. I specifically went through that scene time and time and time again to get all of the shots captured, to get all of the objectives there. You know, there's lead up, lead up, lead up, this bad guy gets taken out. And then lead up, lead up, lead up, this bad guy gets taken out. Then you hear the priest say, you know, Michael, do you reject Satan?
    16:39
    And then, boom, another guy gets taken out. And Michael says, yes, I reject him. And then another guy gets taken out. Michael, do you reject all of his charms or woe or whatever he says? And then another bad guy gets taken out. And so, like, following the scene and pushing that into the gameplay was really a fun thing to do. And I think when people play the mode, they're going to get the same kind of chills I'm getting when I'm talking about it. it's such a great scene i actually sadly i just watched godfather for the first time last weekend and holy crap that scene is amazing yes regardless how you feel about the rest of the film like the juxtaposition between good and evil and that scene alone just and thought if you guys integrating that into the game like as soon as you said that baptism was one of the wizard modes i was like perfect it makes total sense right and it really it really inspired a lot of the artwork from the game. I mean, the stained glass window in the center is such this beautiful, iconic artwork piece that I carried that stained glass motif up into the user interface And it all because of this scene in the church right In the baptism scene where it extremely powerful And like you said, the good versus evil in that like four minutes of cinema is so powerful. How did you coordinate the call-outs for this game? a long time ago i wrote the rules concept for the game um with pirates and with guns and roses keith was a guy who wrote who wrote the concept of the rules the concept of the gameplay for my third game i came to keith with you know a notebook and i'm like here's what i want the godfather to be he looks at it and he's like you need to take a step back because this is over the top crazy uh i had i had you know these crazy ideas about player versus player interaction and stealing and you know taking pirates and going just like to the crazy next level uh where you were actively taking them out and you know when you take out their lieutenant do they lose points or they lose balls or they lose a whole bunch of stuff. But when you take a step back and you're like, well, if I'm player one and I kill off everyone else in the game, you're negative 5 million points before you've even plugged a ball. Like, well, okay, I understand. We probably shouldn't do that. People are going to end up getting punched in the head. Okay, but that could be a great option. All right. I mean, there is. And think about that. You could do like a mafia bloodbath mode where you put four players in and your goal is to stay above zero.
    19:31
    And don't choose one path. You can choose so many. There's a lot that could be done. And then what will the licensor approve and what can we program in there with the time we have?
    19:44
    But the voice call-outs. So we came up with the rules. We refined what we were looking for in the rules, and then we come up with a script. And I wrote the script. I asked for feedback from the team. And then I directed the two recording sessions we had with our voice talent, a real cool guy who was excited to do this project. And, you know, directing voice talent is something that I've done on all of my games. the first session that I did for Pirates. And, you know, kind of one of those pinch yourself moments, like Kevin McNally, a world renowned actor, the star who played Joshua Gibbs in all five Pirate movies. I'm directing him. He's in a studio and I'm saying, well, no, sir, can you please emphasize jackpot a little bigger? It's very exciting, right? So directing voice talent is something that I never thought I would be doing.
    20:48
    Second game, you know, directing Slash to, you know, can you put a little more energy into that jackpot call? It's like, yeah, I don't really like voice acting. It's not my thing. Like, I get it. We got to do it.
    21:01
    This guy was an actor. This guy, Zach, that did the voice work for us. And he was awesome. He did a great job capturing the different, the essence of, you know, he's kind of one of the crew with you. He's like, hey, you know, maybe you should go do this. Don's waiting for you. You know, kind of providing you the type of feedback you need as a player without, you know, like a condescending. He's not in the ranks above you. He's more like your guide to where you should be doing things for your family. We were then able to also pull hundreds, I could find the exact number, of lines from the films. And that was me going through and, you know, reading the transcripts from the movies and then looking, you know, actually listening to the movies themselves, going through each of them line by line. And, okay, I have, this is the set of talent that I'm able to use voice work of. and you know what would that line make sense well i'll find a place for it i'll find a place for this one i'll find a place for this one this one i probably can't figure out something but i'm going to clip it anyways and i'm going to throw it to the programming team and see if they can find a place for it wanted to have as much from the films as possible in here okay the vibe i'm getting when i see godfather and i see the way you're integrating it it almost feels a little bit like a role-playing game. And I mean that in a very positive way that sounds like you're trying to guide, you know, you're, you're choosing a path, but it's also a little bit of a choose your own adventure because you're picking which house you're going to. And then he's like, well, maybe you should go and try to shake down the guy on the street, or maybe you should.
    22:54
    There's definitely essence of like board games in this, you know, I've been locked in my home for months playing board games with my wife and my sons.
    23:05
    There are three different economies that you're controlling as you're playing this game. You've got not only your points, which is the kind of economy that everyone's familiar with in a pinball machine, but you have your influence and your level over the different levels of influence that you can attain. When you get influence over beat cops which is the lowest level your what is the perk there i think your your ventures score slightly more points once you get influence over detectives then your jobs are worth more points once you get influence over the chief of police you get more things and every level you rise you get more perks that influence the rest of the game as you're playing jobs you need to recruit soldiers. So in order to start in the Don's office, you need to have 25 soldiers that you get. But which job you choose, where it is on the stained glass window, it affects the things next to it on the stained glass window. There's little artwork insert arrows that are pointing to the neighboring stained glass windows. So for example, the Sicily multi-ball has two jobs next to it. If you play Sicily multiball first and you do well, it positively influences the two jobs that are next to it. If you play those two jobs first and you cash out your values, one of them gives you an extra ball and add a ball to your multiball. And the other one, I think, gives you a higher super jackpot value. So your strategy that you're choosing on which job to start, which multi-ball to start, kind of the order in which you play those things, is definitely like a choose-your-own-adventure kind of idea. The weapon economy is another thing that you are managing as you're playing. So you can build up a multiplier. You hit spinners, and it adds to your weapon counter.
    25:15
    You have to use that action button to select which level of weapons you're bringing on your mission. that you're using. It lasts for 10 seconds. So you know you're starting a multiball. All right, I'm going to crank up my weapon multiplier, and I'm going to play this multiball for 10 seconds with a 3x or a 4x or a 5x. The more times you use a multiplier, the higher ceiling you can earn. So you build that up. When's the best time to use this multiplier versus, well if I use it early I can get a higher value later your territories that you're taking over those are more kind of again resources that you're managing as you're trying to build how many neighborhoods you control you get perks for owning a distinct borough of New York City and more perks for owning more boroughs of New York City. So there's definitely a lot of deep, nerdy rules that go into this thing. You don't have to know about any of them. You just want to whack a ball, hit the big bad guy up the middle. You're probably going to stumble your way into a multi-ball. You're going to have fun hearing these guys talk trash to you.
    26:35
    But for the players who are really into rules and managing play styles and risk management as they're choosing to cash out now or start a multiplier here.
    26:49
    It's all there for the player. So do you feel like there was more challenges with Godfather or more freedom? Because it seems like if you happen to build a world, you had some freedom there.
    27:01
    Well, relative to Guns N' Roses, I would say there were more challenges. We definitely had to play in their sandbox. you know like this is this is our lore you need to hold on to this lore but when i told them well here's my idea i wanted i want to live in this world that where the movies take place but not necessarily follow the entire script of the film because that's you know linear gameplay boring it's not it's not fun yeah You know, I don't want to just play wedding favors literally the first time every time I start a game. I want to be able to pick any of the eight scenes that I want that I want to play through and see these different characters. Right. Variety on how you can tackle a game to me is very important. Yes. So they gave us the freedom of, you know, using whatever scenes we wanted for the talent that we had acquired in the first movie or the second movie. We didn't have to play them in a specific order.
    28:06
    We were able to introduce our own characters that, you know, fit in this world in this time period and, you know, say appropriate things for the time and for the people they are. So there was some creative freedom. We're still playing within their sandbox in order to make it work within the brand. You talked about this story. Tell me again how you got Slash to play on this.
    28:37
    So while we were doing Guns N' Roses, we watched a lot of Guns N' Roses concerts because we were trying to pull up the best images, the best video cuts that they gave to us. It was 18 concerts that were each three hours long, and they had high-definition audio and video for all the concerts. well in watching this and then when we went to the concert as well every time slash would finish his crazy long 10 minutes solo and go into sweet child of mine the last motif he would play before starting the iconic sweet child of mine solo was the godfather and it was all beautifully choreographed right the the lights in the venue would turn this like orange and red and it would be just Slash in there centered, playing Speak Softly Love.
    29:31
    So I found out that I was doing Godfather, and I still hesitate every time I say the name out loud, right? Even though the game's been launched, I've been not saying the name out loud for two and a half years.
    29:47
    When I found out I was doing Godfather, I was just finishing up. You know, Guns N' Roses had been finished by me, and it was coming through the production cycle now. getting ready to launch. And I was talking to Slash about GNR and what we were doing with it and the different concepts there. And I said, oh, yeah, the next game that I'm doing is The Godfather.
    30:11
    I stopped and I paused. And, of course, he responded. You were fishing. And it didn't take long for the bite. He's like, Eric, I have to do that music for you.
    30:25
    Like, okay. Twist my arm, sure. So, yeah, he was, he's awesome. He is such a pinhead at heart. Like, and he just loves the creativity that goes into making games and making anything. I mean, he's so talented at what he does. And he appreciates the creativity of others.
    30:49
    What a dude to work with. It's just been a wild, wild ride. and he was so stoked to do this. I saw it like the Easter egg of him in the game when he put in the code. As he's ripping it out, he's normally a very stoic guy, right? I don't often see him have big emotions. Right at the end, when he looks up at the camera, he gets this grin where he knows what he just did was so cool.
    31:20
    Okay, now he's also not the only legendary guitarist that you got to work on this game. That is true. So tell me more about Mark. So Mark is a huge pinball nut. And I first met Mark when I got a phone call from Jack saying, hey, Mark Tremonti wants to talk to you. I'm like, okay, about what? Like, well, he just got a Pirates delivered. He bought it secondhand and a forklift went not through the side of it, but through the side of the box and messed up the decals. It messed up. And so I get Mark on the phone. He's like, look, man, if there's anything you can do. And this was, you know, a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago. So, like, Pirates had been out for a while. He's like, do you have any decals, anything I can put on my game? you know I just paid over 20 grand for this thing came in with a big like scar down the side of it I'm like yeah let me see what I can find and I was able to get some decals for him send them out to him then he came for a tour of the factory and I'd been listening to I knew Creed's music but Alterbridge was definitely more my jam and just the way Miles sings and the way Mark plays guitar, it's incredible. He's an awesome performer. When I found out that he was such a big pinhead and he couldn't stop talking about how excited he was to be in a pinball factory and how I have the coolest job in the world, and I'm like, okay, rock star, yeah, a pinball guy has the coolest job ever. You got it.
    33:13
    He kept saying, is there anything you ever need, any music, anything at all? Just let me know, man. I'd love to do do whatever you need. I just love pinball so much. I'd love to be a part of a game. I'm like, OK, I appreciate that. I'll keep that in mind.
    33:27
    And then. Mark sent me a track before it had been released. Of of him singing Sinatra. And he sent it to me because we'd become friends. And he's like, hey, I want you to hear this new project that I'm working on. It's for charity. We're raising money. It's called Take a Chance. And it puts people out of their comfort zone. So Mark, the heavy guitarist, you know, that is on stage in his black T-shirt, just like ripping guitar, puts on a suit and sings like Frank Sinatra. And he hired the touring company, the touring band that played with Frank originally. You know, a lot of these guys are in their 60s, 70s, still the same guys are playing horn and piano and the same arranger that performed with Frank. They all came to work with Mark on his album. And when he sent me this, I'm like, oh, man, Sinatra and The Godfather have such like this, this turbulent history together. Like, all right, Mark, I need you to sign it on disclosure. I need to bring you into this project he's like oh yeah here it is alright so I'm doing the Godfather and I'm wondering if you want to add some music to it it's like oh yeah man which guitar you want me to use you want me to use this one you want me to use this one I'm like no no you need I want you to sing speak softly love like Sinatra and he's like done let's make it happen But let's go all out. Let's do something incredible that no one has ever done in pinball. You know, let's let's see how big we can make this. And so working with him and with Kerry Dedman, the composer.
    35:22
    Kerry made a 40 piece orchestra arrangement for Speak Softly Love. And so we performed it We were in we were in Chicago We went to a studio and there were 40 musicians who were in the studio that day The horns did their part and then the strings all came in and they got set up and they did their part And I was there for the string session I was wearing my suit and Mark was wearing his suit and Jack Guarneri was there and he was wearing his suit. So we were all completely dressed up. All these string players were playing and then the percussion section was playing and we recorded the whole thing. And then Mark set up the microphone and we had the tracks laid down from all the performers that just went. And Mark was singing Speak Softly Love and, you know, doing four or five takes for each stanza that went through. And then he's like, all right, Eric, time for you to take a chance. and I got one chance to step up to the mic and belt it out. And I did. And it turned out quite well, if I do say so myself. Nice. Well, you do have a music background. Yes, very much so. Music has always been a part of my life since I was a kid. I've got to say, though, I love that you guys have put yourself in the game, too. I mean, I've seen all the little Easter eggs, you as a mafia man holding the Tommy gun on the artwork. the pictures of the JJP employees as some of the capos and there's Ken every time I see Ken I'm like I wouldn't want to meet that guy in an alley no right it's even great that you're in the music too yes yeah it's a lot of fun when you get the freedom to be able to put yourself into your work not just blood sweat and tears but your likeness your voice your image it just it really brings a smile to your face you know being able to be there and be a part of it. So are you ahead of one of the families then?
    37:27
    Um, I am one of the Capo Regimes of the Corleone family. And, uh, so if you choose, you know, the Cuneos or the Strazzi's of the Talia's, um, you get to beat me up. Okay. And the other, uh, the other Corleone Capo Regime is Mark Tremonti. the image and likeness is there as well and you're beating him up so if you ever wanted motivation now is your time if you want to beat up eric in the baptism scene you want to take him out as one of the leaders this is your chance so tell me about the the collector's edition so i from what i have been gathering that's actually been selling very well because people love all the integration on it So tell me about how you made that feel even more godfather than a standard pinball machine. So I wanted to have the game play the same between the limited edition and the collector's edition. so I was set on just creating art pieces and bling and kind of visual visual upgrades to your machine that are super cool but don't directly impact the play field and the way the game plays so there's a couple small play field modifications again that don't interact with gameplay there's a getting the glitter into the play field, seeing it in person. It's incredible. There will be two of them on the floor at TPF to be able to see it in person.
    39:17
    There's a couple of little tweaks that I made that when I look at them now, it's like, oh, yeah, that's relatively minor. But the, like, nine months of R&D that went into learning how to print a liquid gold ink onto the back of a PETG playfield plastic and have it shine in a way that makes it look incredible. There's a lot of R&D that went into it. Printing on metallic backed and reflective decals for like the apron, the bottom arch, right? Just another, if you're looking at the game side by side, like, oh wow, that's really intense, visually sparkly, reflective, really cool. stuff having the topper uh was you know this concept that i had i'm like all right i want two mobsters and i want a car in the middle and the sculptor i worked with just loves to take you know my figure the car is like about that big you know my office would be like this he's like all right so the car is this big and it's set at an isometric view so when you look at the car from the front um it looks really cool and it looks when you look at it top it's like it's squished it's a forced perspective view so the car looks like the front of it is a lot bigger than the back of it and that makes it look like it's driving toward you and it's huge look at it from the top you're like my brain broke when i'm looking at this thing because it's it's scaled weird but you'll never see it from the front And then the two mobsters that move and they shoot and they can follow stuff around.
    41:10
    They're standing behind sculpted barrels. I mean, there's tens of thousands of dollars worth of sculpting, worth painting, tooling. I don't, the number of times that I was, what's the appropriate word, talked to strongly from our financial people about the cost of tooling that goes into components for the collector's edition. I can't even keep track of how many times I was asked to pull back, pull back, pull back. This is too much. This is too much.
    41:53
    The leg sculpture covers that go on the game and they're held on with magnets. You know, I just wanted to have.
    42:04
    Elegance and like glamour and like the 1940s and 50s gangster style elegance where you've got these plush chairs and golden ashtrays and, you know, just this sick amount of money and opulence that is there. I really wanted to capture that in the collector's edition with the way that these gold pieces were made and the laser ash with reflective red backing with different slogans from the movie. the gold mirror, back glass ink just all these things that make you feel like you are a very wealthy mobster with your golden lions there on your game well you didn't bring up one thing that I thought was really fascinating on the topper you actually may be in the running for one of the coolest features of a topper with having the knockers on both sides and the guy shooting at you. Yes, yes. I had an epiphany as I was developing this thing where I was going through coil tests.
    43:28
    And when you go into coil tests, you can manually fire any coil in the game by just hitting the start button. and I hit the knocker and I'm like, crack! And I'm like, that sounds like a gunshot. Oh! It sounds like a gunshot.
    43:44
    Crack, crack, crack, crack, crack, crack, crack, crack, crack! I'm like, oh man, I'm doing this. I gotta make this happen. And then I'm like, alright, there's two guys on top. If I fire this thing at 20 times per second I'm probably gonna melt something. So I bet I can fire it at 10 times per second, but I need two of them. and that's how fast a Thompson submachine gun fires a Tommy gun. It fires 600 rounds per minute,
    44:10
    10 times per second. I ran the test for about two weeks in our, in our prototyping and build shop and it carried throughout into production. So people were there about every 25 seconds hit here.
    44:28
    What's going on? Calm. and 30 seconds later and I remember going out to the floor and telling people I'm like I'm going to be testing a very loud mechanism it's going to be happening regularly every 30 seconds you will hear what sounds like gunshots do not be alarmed it is just a mechanism that is firing in the engineering lab okay so I gave people fair warning it is controllable as far as it doesn't have to be on. You can disable it in software if you so choose. It is on by default, though. It will be there as part of the game by default, and you'll have to go in there and shut it off if you have neighbors or family or anyone else that... Or live in a high-crime area. Exactly. Or your dog's skittish.
    45:22
    Yes. I did want it to be a feature that was controllable, but it is going to get your attention when you set up your brand new game. That is awesome. And what's funny too is I remember when we came in October, Ken was nice enough to give us a tour. Because the day you guys were doing tours is the day that we did the flip in the script on autism. And so Ken's like, well, you guys can get a private tour. Obviously that's what you're doing. So we really appreciate you guys letting us in. And I was so intrigued because we're going through the floor, but obviously you were working on some of the mechanics and you could hear it testing the mech in the background. I'm like, I just want it so bad. Just go over there and just take a peek.
    46:05
    But I think we all would have been super curious if you were testing that mech during the tour. Yeah.
    46:11
    You were probably hearing the lift ramp mechanism, the different drop targets that are in the game. We life test everything so much to make sure that when this game is on route, And getting beat up for dollar plays, you know, the game survives and it makes money for the operators.
    46:32
    So the shooter on the collectors is the severed horse head. It is. I hope I don't get angry letters from PETA.
    46:47
    Again, that's one of those. You asked someone who saw The Godfather 15 years ago. They remember that scene. Absolutely. I remember Jack walked in his bed with his golden sheets,
    46:58
    waking up covered in blood and just his scream with the horse head. Now, fun trivia is, you know, what's the name of the horse? Tartum. Tartum, yes.
    47:11
    It's just such an iconic scene. It's like how, and I was reading some of the chatter that was going around, you know, there's going to be a severed horse head multi-ball or something, And I didn't want, you know, this game to be tongue-in-cheek, you know, kind of making fun of. I felt like it was an elegant way of getting the horse head in the game that just fits so perfectly. And it's really nice, actually. There have been some custom shooter rods that have been weird, you know, that are weird shapes. Like I've got a Homer Simpson in a donut that I had on my Simpsons pinball party. but that thing is like this big you have no finesse or control it's like okay uh it didn't work i wanted to have a shooter knob that fits and feels good in your hand and this horse head is the right shape it fits it conforms to your hand when you grab it it's almost like you're holding the the handle of a pistol or something right it's like it's that shape when it's in your hand and it just feels good and you can pull it back and let it go so that's great the feel of a shooter rod is important it's important yes right shape so so one other thing that ken had point out to us is you guys still have it set up like your your rotisseries and stuff can still do wide bodies if you want to is there any future plans to do wide bodies there at jjp there is nothing preventing me from doing a wide body or from any designer doing a wide body a lot of it comes down to why bodies are more expensive when you've got the extra inches on a play field it can't just be open space you know you got to fill it up with stuff um and stuff is expensive yes and stuff is not expensive just on bill of material but stuff is expensive in design stuff isn't expensive in prototyping in getting parts into the building and getting them inspected and getting them stored like storage space if you have more unique parts it takes up more space on your shelves and that's all like that's all measurable as a cost to the company so it is totally doable and And, you know, if the right license comes along and my heart and soul says this needs to be a wide body, it'll be a wide body. Nice. So it's not out of the cards. You're saying there's a chance. There is a chance. There's absolutely a chance.
    49:47
    So you brought back the Hot Rails. I did. But you're using, okay, tell me about how you did the unique aspect of integrating the Hot Rails on the apron. Yes. So it's really pragmatic, actually.
    50:04
    And this is one of those, you know, I should have done this the first time around, but it's an improvement that I made in the Godfather over Guns N' Roses.
    50:16
    Having unique items on your bill of material is more expensive. On Guns N' Roses, the left hot rail was a different length with a different length LED strip. So it's a different part number, a different assembly number. all that stuff needs to be drawn and created by the mechanical engineers and inspected by incoming and then stored on Godfather. They're the same exact piece. And me being an electrical engineer and mechanical engineer and designer, like, all right, boom, the hot rails are on. Boom, the apron is on. I know I got lights under there because I know the hot rail extends another four and a half inches underneath the bottom arch so i grabbed the the dremel i'm like cut a hole in it and i'm like yeah i can see my lights again i gotta do something with that all right it's gonna be a health meter for my bad guy actually i had a couple different ideas maybe it's an ammo counter maybe it's a timer that's showing a countdown and then i settled on it being a health meter um i was trying to think of a good like how many more hits do i need to hit this guy i'm gonna look up at the screen okay it's like i can do that if i trap up but now it's like i can see it's green or it's yellow or it's red and it's flashing right down here um it's very visible to the player so it's a pragmatic of i have those lights there anyways i have to use them i gotta figure out a way to use them and integrate them into the game and i'm like right health meter it is it's great that you're utilizing the stuff that's already there right like it was like well i already have those lights there might as well use them right exactly When I look at the wire forms, there's one that reminds me a lot of one of my games, Black Rose.
    52:05
    So you have that comes straight down the middle, but the modification in Black Rose, it just hits a 45 degree angle and goes up a little bit. It always hits the glass too. Yeah, it always hits the glass, which is great. It's kind of like whitewater. It always hits the glass on Insanity Falls. So as it's coming down, I was surprised when I watched gameplay because I thought it would come down, shoot up, and hit that stand-up target in the shats lane and then go firing, like screaming down to the middle. But it actually – and that's a straight shot, but it seems still very controllable. So tell me about why you put that in and what was the thinking behind it? So I love the idea of a shots target. There's just every one of my games I design in risk reward. It's very risky to make a shots shot because you are standing on a razor's edge. If you miss that shot, it hits the sling and goes straight down your throat. or you fire too late and you just fire and the ball wasn on your flipper right But if you can hit that target it can be worth something big really big But shooting an in lane is a skill that only very advanced players can successfully pull off repeatedly. I wanted there to be a way for a casual to experience a shat's target. So I wanted to feed the wire form into the target and have it come back down, so they could feel what a shat's hit would be like by making something that most people can make, which is a very up-the-center left ramp.
    53:56
    When it's coming screaming down there, it can hit that target and come back so fast, you've got to be on your toes. It is a very fun mechanic in the game. The speed of it is whipping around the ramp, coming down. the geometry that was designed for that wire form so that, you know, anytime you can pick up a ball with your hands and put it anywhere in a game, the ball has to be able to get out of there because in gameplay, it will happen. You know, it might be one in a million, but if you can put a ball there by hand with the assumption that the glass is on, so something that's, you know, this far away from the glass, you can't put a ball in there. but if you can put the ball there, it will happen in gameplay, and then the ball is stuck. So that wire form, it needed to actually go kind of uphill, right? It was coming down past a point, and then it had to go back up the play field and direct energy against the normal motion of travel. So the ramp had to be designed that it was very, very steep at the end and then banked so that it would come up and around and go into that target. so I had to build up enough speed as it was coming straight down the play field I had it you know kind of curving around a little bit but the ball would move too slowly as it was you know meandering down so I had to get it straight so it had enough energy to kind of go back uphill and then roll back down a lot of geometry challenges with wire forms on on this game this marks your second mature theme are you starting to become known as the mature theme guy down at jjp um i i don't shy away from it it was willie wonka talking in the background make a wish right i don't shy away from it um i have no objection to mature themes i understand that there's an audience for good family-friendly themes for for toy story and for Willy Wonka and for the Wizard of Oz. You know, those are very good, family friendly, bring the whole family together. There's also an audience for mature themes, right? I wouldn't want my only pin in my collection to be an only mature theme if it's mature all the time, right? I think Godfather is great because it doesn't have to be only the adult theme. You turn on the adult featured videos, you know, these explicit videos of blood and violence and people getting shot. Like, not something I want my kids to be playing on my game. Same with Guns and Roses. There's songs that are kind of held behind an adult filter. I wanted my kids to be able to play this game and my kids to be able to play The Godfather without them needing to be exposed to the adult themed videos and content. So those are settings that are adjustable and you have to have the keys for the coin door in order to change those settings. You can't just hit a flipper button or something like that. And the reason I explaining that so, so intricately is because that's something I had to explain to the licensor because most licensors are under the impression that pinball machines go into Chuck E. Cheese's. Well, you can't, You can't have people getting shot in the face in a Chuck E. Cheese. And I'm like, you're right. But Chuck E. Cheese would never buy an adult theme. They're not going to buy The Walking Dead, right? That's not a theme you would see in a Chuck E. Cheese. So explaining that these are settings that can be adjusted by the end user. You know, if there's children in the house, if they don't have access to the keys for the coin box, which mom or dad could, you know, hang up on a hook, then they can't adjust these settings and they can't turn on adult and explicit settings. So keeping the licensor aware that, you know, this is not a everything is there all at once and it is what you get, that these settings are adjustable, that you can turn on or off certain video features was an important point for the licensor to understand that this is how the content will be presented and will be up to the end user to show the adult or to hear the adult call outs. kind of going away from the mature theme but i was thinking of i think one of the complaints when this first this game first came out was the light show versus the theme and carl d'angelo played it like the next day on stream right and and carl's very well respected in the community and he said really guys the lights are not they're not as brash as in your face and it's very well more incorporated and so i think that was one of my hesitations but i think the thing with jjp is You have to experience this in person. It's hard to take it for face. Like it's hard to take it for everything it's worth off of a video, right? Speaking of the glitter, when we were walking through and doing that tour, you guys had some toy stories on the line. And it's amazing how much that glitter just pops on those play fields. I think this is definitely, if you're going to Texas Pinball Festival, this is an experience like anything else.
    59:13
    JJP is making a product that no one else is making on the market, right? You guys have definitely went above and beyond the call of what pinball is and making it from a game into an experience, an enjoyable experience. And so I commend you guys for that. It's amazing what you guys are doing down there. Thank you, Josh. Appreciate it. Those collector's editions will also be playable at Midwest Gaming Classic in Milwaukee the next weekend. And there are a couple of collector's editions that are touring the world at various shows that are happening. There should be one at, it's called Flip Fest. It's in France at the end of April. And there should be one going to Australia as well. These are show games. These are not part of the 1,000. These are, you know, marketing sample prototype builds that people can see and experience firsthand. Awesome. Now, you are going to Texas, right? I am going to Texas, yeah. So if people have questions, they can actually come up and play a game next to the designer. Yes. Or with the designer. With the designer. That's true. If you want to be bumped up the list, you bring him a beer, right? Exactly. There's a line 30 people long, but you come to the front of the list if you bring good beer. It's like the quick pass at Disneyland. Exactly. Now, didn't Amanda win a dollar off you playing dollar game on your game? On my game, yes. We both had terrible, terrible games of Pirates of the Caribbean, but hers was slightly less terrible. Less terrible. I think she wound up with 60,000 points as the winner.
    60:59
    Right. Okay, she left that part of the story out. Yeah. Yeah, it was a nice one. If you listen to her tell it, she dunked over like a seven-footer. Yeah, yeah. yeah so that's okay what is one thing that you love about godfather that you haven't been able to really talk about yet what's something that you just the audience needs to know about this game well one of the things that we're i wouldn't say we're not not allowed to talk about um working with the licensor, we always know, learn what the scope of the license entails.
    61:46
    And the scope of the Godfather license originally did not include Michael Corleone. The original contract that we signed did not include Michael Corleone, nor the actor who played him.
    62:04
    And so there were, there was extra effort. And in fact, in fact, parts had been released for production without Michael Corleone's image used in the game. And we, myself and Jack, were fighting tooth and nail to get Michael's character into this game. And eventually, we got through directly to Mr. Pacino and were able to work directly with him and his attorneys in getting him to sign on to be part of the Godfather. Now, Michael Corleone has never been represented in a licensed product for the Godfather until this game.
    63:05
    Wow. So when we told Paramount, we got Pacino to be on board. They're like, stop the presses. This has never been accomplished with our company and with this license. He has not approved his likeness to be used in licensed material.
    63:27
    But Jack can be very convincing. Wow. And I personally wrote a letter to Mr. Pacino outlining how I would use his likeness in the game and how I would represent intellectual property in the best light possible. I showed him how I would use it. Here are scenes I would use. Here's the artwork renditions that I would do that would show you your character in the best light.
    64:02
    And, you know, it is my mission to present this intellectual property in the best way possible. And frankly, sir, that would be impossible without your character as part of this. And he agreed to be a part of it. and so we changed all of the artwork at the last minute wow and we changed all the video content and the audio content i mean i'm talking about november of last year when parts were already released and you know they were getting into the building and like stop the presses we are putting michael corleone as the center figure on the limited edition playfield and he is going to be there right behind the Don on the collector's edition play field. Mr. Franchi redid all of the artwork for both packages to include Michael in the game and represented large unlimited edition game, back glass, sides, play field. It was a monumental feat to pivot in the 11th hour. But it was an investment that everyone at the company was willing to make because of how important he is to the franchise.
    65:22
    Holy crap. That's insane. Remember? Yeah. That is going above and beyond. See, that's just JJP, right? For me, the Godfather is Michael Corleone. That's who I think of. I actually don't really think of Marlon Brando. I think of the Godfather storyline is Michael reluctantly becoming the mob boss. And so that, for me, having Michael Corleone is essential to tell the story. I agree. And that's why I pushed until it finally happened. You just had to call it Slash, right? Yeah. Like with Paul McCartney. Slash, call Paul McCartney again. Yeah, not this time. Not this time. That is amazing. That is epic. I don't know how else to go.
    66:14
    That's the best story to end on right there. Yes, it definitely is. Thank you, Eric, for coming on. We are just absolute fans of what you're doing. The product there is just top-notch. And I don't know. I don't know what else to say about JJP. I haven't already said.
    66:30
    Right. If you get a JJP game, it's a quality game. And in many ways, there are certain themes that people want you to get just because of how much theme integration you have been able to do with your previous releases. And that's a testament to how you do things.
    66:51
    So if they want to get a hold of you or see you at Texas Pinball Festival, what's the best way to do it? I will be at the Jersey Jack booth as often as I can be. There's a lot of things that happen at shows where I got to go in this direction or that direction. Jersey Jack has a panel discussion at six o'clock on Friday night at TPF. So I'll be there with Jack.
    67:22
    Franchi will also be there. And Bill Grupp, who's one of the senior programmers at Jersey Jack, will also be there. So we'll be able to talk shop. Mr. Cromwell and Mr. Mike Fox Will be in the booth with us All weekend Stop by and say hi You can always reach out to us On our social medias At Jersey Jack And you know Ping me on there And I'm sure I'll see you at some point I get shown a lot of the People want to say things to me For good or for ill I find out about them What's your favorite beer so if people want to bring you one down at Texas. Ooh, my favorite beer that's available in Texas.
    68:07
    I do like the Revolver IPA. So that is a Texas-based micro brew. That's out of, I believe it's out of Austin. I've had that a couple times. It's a good one. Let's see how many of those we can get to you, Eric, at the JJP booth. You know, your chances of actually beating him at a dollar game consistently go up. They do. The more drinks he's had. That's why I jumped over a nickel to pick up, or over a dollar to pick up a nickel, though. I brought you 30 of these, but to win a dollar game. All right, here's the dollar. Let's do this. Right.
    68:42
    I think, Eric, that's a win-win situation for you regardless. I agree. Bring a backpack. All right, if you want to get a hold of us, we are Loser Kid Pinball Podcast at gmail.com. We are on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch, YouTube now, and we're all at Loser Kid Pinball. Leave us comments, whatever your heart desires. We keep getting weird stuff here and there. I'm going to hurry and drop this right now, but Scott lost to Travis for our top 100. It was a Jersey Jack edition. That's true. It was. It was Guns N' Roses versus Wonka, and Guns N' Roses won. Yeah, it was actually kind of hard because I do like Guns N' Roses, but I'm a wonka. And so I really had to pull out some creative arguments for going against Guns N' Roses.
    69:36
    I've got them both. Yeah. You've got a beautiful lineup there. I'm slightly jealous. I'm not slightly jealous. I'm over-the-top jealous. You have all the Jersey Jacks there, except for your current one, which will be coming soon.
    69:52
    I didn't want to show all my cards. My Toy Story, I'm taking delivery of it very soon. But in fact, every year at my son's school, there is a carnival fundraiser. And I'm like, Toy Story 4 is going to that carnival. It's going to be dollar plays and they're going to raise money for the school. Highest score is going to get $25 gift card to, or maybe they'll get a Jersey Jack shirt or something like that, right? But, we wanted to have the, the carnival from my son's elementary school have a carnival themed Toy Story 4 pinball machine. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. That's great. Thanks again for coming on, Eric. We appreciate all you do and don't have too much fun down in Texas. Of course. I will, I will enjoy myself responsibly.
    70:49
    © transcript Emily Beynon