Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. Thanks again for the ongoing support as a Pinball Show Club member. Enjoy this exclusive TPS content and make sure to visit the Pinball Show Club Discord to chat about the bonus material. All right, Dennis, let's jump into our exclusive content for these wonderful Patreon Club members. Yes, thank you for your continued support. Do you think the title was a little click-baity? Yeah, but maybe not inaccurate. Let's run through the timeline of what we're calling, is Dave Fix and American Pinball trying to sue me? This last couple of weeks, whenever, I've got it right here. January 24th 2024 the NAP article came out with the rumored story is Ametron American Pinball trying to sell to potential buyers are they looking for buyers prior to that they got this information from Pinball Party Podcast, Cale Hernandez from Electric Bat Arcade said that he'd received a text message that said AP's looking for buyers so that was 24th our episode 146 was on January 29th, damn near a week after all of the articles and everything came out in between the, that time, many other media providers and podcasters and streamers all talking about this. This was not new news whenever we covered it, but we covered it nonetheless because fuck, I mean, come on, we're the pinball show. So that happened. Then the next day, January 30th, 30th, I start getting messages from Franchi. For those of you unaware, Christopher Franchi, an award winning artist in this industry. Wonderful, wonderful work. And he has done some work for American Pinball. I think probably still does some work for them. He messaged me. He sort of messaged me about irresponsible broadcasting, false information, stuff like that. Almost like he was coming down on me. Almost like an authoritative position. The only The problem is he doesn't have any authoritative position over me. So it was kind of like a friend, like a, hey, heads up. You're fucking up. What are you doing? This is irresponsible of you. You're hurting sales. You need to ensure information before you go running with it. And I was like, hold what? Hold up. First off, everybody's covered. It ain't a me thing, man. Everybody's covering this damn thing. Well, and it was noted to be a rumor. Yes, it was a rumor. nap ring it's just a rumor and then to follow up i mean dave fix even said himself in the in the pinball profile interview that they were looking for investors at one point so okay whatever so francis you know messaged me about that and he's like make sure to listen to the pinball profile make sure to cover that as much as you cover the nap information and i consider chris a friend so you just maybe he was just give me a heads up kind of thing but it was almost like a you know wagging his fingers shame on you he's a day fix is pissed he's on a he's on a mission man and uh i said okay so maybe this is just a wild coincidence a listener and dennis but at the same time as Christopher Franchi was messaging me shame on you i get a message from day fix a message on January 30th that simply, this is a message via text, simply says tortious interference dot dot dot let's talk about this today dot dot dot so he's insinuating that he's legally threatening me that I am guilty of tortious interference Now let's dive into it Big phrase, wow Okay, so now I've got the executive vice president Of a company that we represent We meaning my company, Flip N Out Pinball Sell products for That is essentially maybe being sued Because of something that the pinball show discussed Wasn't even Flip N Out Pinball It was the pinball show Alright, so let's go through that tennis before we go into what torches interference is i want to talk about this focus on you know francie messaging me shame on you you're going down uh then and then dave fix is running this company threatening me legally in a text message uh because of the podcast all right so i was you know inquiring minds want to know whenever i was chatting with francie through messaging i said at least tell me, how did Kale from the pinball party who originally reported this, how is he taking all of your messaging like this? How is Jason Knapp from Knapp Arcade, what is his response to you saying shame on you, all these messages? How is Kerry Hardy? How's Chris Coolers? How is my co-host Dennis Creasel? I would love to be a fly on the wall to see how they are responding to your messages to them as well as all the other media creators out there. Franchi, what are they saying to you? Any guesses as to what they were saying, Dennis? You were one of them. How did you respond? No one who would dare threaten me. Because I will actually litigate. So Franchi didn't reach out to you? No. Oh, okay. Well, come to find out, Franchi didn't reach out to anybody. Just me. Just me. Just fire whales at them. Here's the thing, and it's kind of when you get to the torsious, you're the only one with the business relationship with American Pinball of the list you named. Absolutely. We will get into that. So then I thought, because Franchise was like, well, I didn't reach out to anybody. Oh, well, that's convenient. Okay. So you ripping on me and calling me your sponsor But you didn rip out any of the people that not only did fucking put it out there initially but a week before Okay So this is just a targeted thing Gotcha. What about Dave Fix? I wonder how all these people are responding to Dave Fix messaging and legally threatening them. Did he reach out to you, Dennis? No one reached out. No one reached out to you. Shit. But come to find out, he didn't reach out to anybody besides me. so again just you know just gonna just the laissez-faire just throw in a little legal threat there uh on a was that tuesday or something just uh so yeah no one dave fix didn't reach out to anybody just me just me and i thought to myself i even asked phrase you're like why why do people always fuck with me oh well are you afraid of nap arcade afraid of chris coolers you're afraid of carrie hartley why fuck with me help dennis is on the show with me why why why and that's what frustrates me the most is why me i think a big part of it honestly you can say the business thing and that might that's something i think it's because they know that they can be open with me and if i were to say it to the public everybody's like oh zach fights with a lot of people and stuff like that so it's almost like oh you don't want to mess with dennis from nap arcade or something because whoa then people would be like what's wrong with Dave Fix. So he'd come after me. I'm like the easy target there. That's fine. So what did I do when Dave Fix messaged me this? Well, shit. He says we need to talk today. So I called him. Shit. Let's figure this out. He didn't answer. Alright. So I'm waiting for his call. He's going to call me today, February 11th. Today he's still not called me. Really? He's going to throw it out there legally threatening me and then just letting me sit on that indefinitely. That's terrific. So that pissed me off, because it's just in bad form. First off, who legally threatens somebody in a text message? Right? That's one thing. But let's look to see what this tortious interference even is. Maybe I am guilty of it. Maybe I'm going to jail, Dennis. Oh, shit. Well, it's a tort. It's not criminal. It's not criminal. It's a civil matter. Can you sue somebody that's an authorized dealer of your products? You can sue anyone for anything. So let's set that aside. You can start the lawsuit on anything. Could you be successful? I mean, this is where I have to clarify. Wouldn't the first step be dropping me as a dealer, flipping out pinball? That I have an obligation to denote that I am not an attorney and nothing I'm saying for these dear Patreon members should be taken as legal advice. tortious interference is an incredibly difficult standard from what i understand because it all hinges on what i mean what it's about is about damaging contractual or business relationships between others however my understanding is as a non-lawyer that it's only actionable is if the person you're suing did it with the intent to interfere with those contracts It has to cause harm. It has to be malicious. It can't even be negligent. It has to be malicious. I've got the definition right here. It's intent on the defendant's part to disrupt the economic relationship or knowledge that disruption was likely because of their conduct, disruption of the relationship, harm to the plaintiff, and a causal connection between the wrongful act and the harm. So I had to have motive. I had to go in there. And you have to be able to measure all of the money that American Pinball lost because of my behavior. So it would be a me thing. It wouldn't be a flipping out pinball thing, first off, because the presentation was a flipping out pinball sponsors a show, whatever. But this is a pinball show kind of thing. Just focusing on me, though, instead of Dennis and me, which is error number one. But also, of those people that I listed earlier reporting on this rumor and discussing this rumor, the majority of which were super more harsh than I was. Go listen to any Kanae or Kerry Hardy thing. and then come back to me. But my motive is the weakest of all. I've got a vested interest in this company. I have inventory in these products. That's where my vibe when you told me about what you got messaged was that this was, and I construed it as a fairly weak sauce attempt to intimidate you with using a fancy-sounding legal phrase, which on the surface of basic research would indicate isn't even applicable. Nope, it's not. When it comes up, it's because generally, when it comes up, it's because a competitor, a competitor to someone uses some sort of like devious, malicious means to get people to hurt the companies, the plaintiff in the case of the sewer, in this case, American Pinball, to hurt their business. But that doesn't make any sense for an authorized dealer because you need to be able to sell their games. Like one of the, I think Wikipedia has this example in there. One of the earliest instances of this happening, this is like in the 1600s, was where the person who sued the American pinball of the 1600s was like a rock quarry. And they were suing someone because the customers to that quarry were driven away. And the way that happened was that defendant went and threatened all the potential customers with lawsuits if they used that person's quarry. That ended up being an instance of tortuous interference because they wanted, I assume, their own quarry to be successful. But another thing to note with all of these sort of pieces of litigation that can happen is it's really hard to prove tortuous interference. And the reason is, as long as the person they're suing is motivated by a legitimate economic self-interest, it doesn't matter if they're competitors. So even if you're like competitors trying to outdo each other, obviously, or else it would be a really weird system full of even more lawsuits than currently exists so it like you may have business reasons uh obviously the show isn't flipping out pinball but you being on the show you might for example identify a having a viable economic purpose to your own business by saying hey if these rumors are out there if i don say hey these are just rumors but these rumors are out there it could hurt your sales long term if people are like well zach just he hid he hid that Absolutely That a that a great point So that where it to me And again as a non lawyer it it false on its surface And what it feels like now, obviously, we have not heard of any such lawsuit being filed. But what it feels like is a slap suit. Are you familiar with slap suits? I'm not. No. OK. Anyone who's ever watched last week tonight with John Oliver might be familiar with slap suits because there was a coal company that was really fond of doing them. SLAP is an acronym. It stands for Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation. And it's when businesses sue people to shut them up. Oh, am I being slap suited by David? I think you're being threatened to be slapped. Oh, and in many states, there are anti-slap statutes which allow you to counter sue. I just love I'm quite familiar because I because I speak so much and I don't have people going around and I've you know, I've I've done civil litigation against people, but I haven't had to in my podcasting. But I'm very aware of these for a very good reason because I find it, and I know these go out worldwide, but I'm American and I find it deeply un-American to try and shut people up when you don't like what they say. And so I'm quite familiar with how you navigate slap suits. And that's what it felt like to me. So maybe that's what it is. I just, at the end of the day, find it interesting, entertaining enough. And generally I wouldn't put my my business out there, especially as a form of entertainment here behind a paywall. Yet, I figure, hell, if the primary form of information I receive from a business partner that is American Pinball and my business, Flip N Out Pinball, if the primary form of information is presented indirectly through podcasts and streams, then why not present it in the same similar manner? now there there are plenty of things that they could do that could make sense for example they could say well you know what i'm we're not comfortable with that you do a podcast separate from your authorized dealer role and we want to go ahead and we're going to you know part ways and sever that relationship like that would be in my you know completely logical course they could just you know consider but they should be weighing that as well with well are we ending up selling more games because like if you go on and you're like i really enjoy gtf yeah you know you've noted that oh he's a distributor does dedicated videos on our stuff products that i mean no there's all sorts of things outside of this podcast he's a good business person and a good representative for oh yeah right and the reason why i mentioned the the slap suit and again it's not it's not a slap suit unless there's actually a lawsuit so just texting you that doesn't that's That is what it is. So someone sent you a message. But the reason I bring it up is I think it has to be stressed that on the episode, just like with I didn't hear everyone else talk about, but like what I read on NAP Arcade, what I read on Pennside, everyone's just noting this is a rumor. So it wasn't even being presented as fact. It was being presented as a rumor that, as you had noted in your early description of the timeline, had been out there for days with, as far as I could tell, zero acknowledgement or response by American Pinball. So they let it fester. That part's their own fault. And that's what when we were talking on the regular episode 147 of the pinball show, I found ironic was that the morning of Dave Fix texting me that legal threat within hours, all of a sudden now they've got a streaming channel. They're doing big announcements that are coming out. I'm like, oh, shit. Wonder if they're going to talk about the big announcement that Dave Fix sprung on me this morning. What the hell is going on? And then what I told Christopher Frange, I'll be very candid here. I told Frange, I said, you know what? This is what pisses me off about this industry. People fuck with me all of the time. But then what happens? They're too fucking scared to go to other people that are sometimes at the root of these issues. They're too scared to do that, so they kick the dog in Zach. And they're going to end up feeding these other entities that were presenting this stuff well before me. They're going to feed those entities. They're going to be feeding them information on their next release and shit like that. And like clockwork, Dennis. Within two to three hours, we get a formal press release released by Nap Arcade that the rumor was false and that they've got this stream and that they've got these announcements from Nap Arcade. It was the one that reported the shit five days before I did. So he is fed exclusive press release. Was the press release on their social media? No. Was the press release on their website? No. Was the press release sent to me as a distributor? Or as a media creator? No. But what do they do? They feed the content to the people that did it in the first place. And I told Franchi that, and then right when that happened, hours later, I texted Franchi back and I said, like fucking clockwork. And that's just an example, listener, of the shit that happens behind the scenes that many aren't privy to and know about. It's asinine. It's pathetic and sad. Obviously, it's – well, we could depict it as quasi-private in the sense that we're doing this. behind the security of the paywall, this information is going to be, as it can be, people can discuss their conversations as you have chosen to do. Tell your friends how interesting you find this, because I find it hilarious. Well, and that's it. This is where, here's what, and again, this is just me guessing. So these are not, I'm not spelling these truths. Notice I always emphasize a lot of things over my opinion. We're not lawyers. Sometimes because people don't understand hyperbole. And sometimes, to just make it clear. Not that I have any competition, so I can't be tortious. the the issue that i have here's what i think happened i think dave heard the episode he got really angry as franchi told you and he wanted to spook you like that was his immediate gut reaction so he texts you two words which on the surface if you were like me you were like i don't even know what the heck that means he should know better yeah but he's done this before and it But when you frothing with rage people do things that don make any sense Here the blunder That wasn even the blunder You could argue that a blunder I think it wasn the right thing to do but it is what it is What I think was the blunder is he's not spoken to you for a week even though he suggested having a conversation. Today, day of he suggested. So now he sends that, doesn't communicate further with you, sends out other information about the rumor to other entities, comes out, doesn't say anything about you know, that makes it suggest that he actually is really angry publicly with flipping out or you as an individual but that threat, or I would have taken it as a threat, has festered with you and now here we are, whereas if you had had that conversation and you guys had gotten, you know, discussed it that day, it probably would have ended up being a nothing burger that we wouldn't have been talking about, but because it's just sat out there as this like intimidation line of two words then here you are you know bringing it up because why else do it when he did you know when it's not brought up with anything else other than to try and shut someone up and that's true i it so now what was the dirty laundry is public is my point yes even if it's only quasi public given that way but yeah but someone listening here is probably going to tell someone it's going to spread and you know what i mean that it doesn't look good most people in general uh don't like uh entities or individuals that are litigious and i should clarify for my little snarky response at the start i am not a litigious individual but i will assert my legal rights if i feel like someone's trying to cow me or rip me off which is the case where where i've had to engage civilly before so you know that's Why that system's there. It's not there. I've never messaged someone in pinball who said something I didn't like about the show or something to try and spook them into not talking. And I might be defensive and say something back about how I thought they were inappropriate. But this was, in my opinion, a really, really bad move. And since Dave hasn't bothered to respond to you when he suggested that you have the conversation with him. And I did try calling him as the missed call. As you noted. As you noted. I mean, what did you think this was like? This was a de-escalation tactic. This is not strong. This is not strong management. That's why I'd like to think and I'm hopeful. Maybe I need to reach out to American Pinball. I am hopeful that even though he was definitively presenting himself as the entity of American Pinball, that they don't necessarily agree with the behavior that he that, you know, that he is presented. because I think that if he was going to slap suit or anything legally, I think that if Dave Fix went to the company lawyer and said, hey, I doubt that the company lawyer said, you know what? In the meantime, shoot the guy over a text and legally threaten him on a tour that doesn't even fit the situation. I don't think it's a smart move. I don't know what you're doing. I have no clue. I think you're right. That's why I think he was just mad. I'm hoping this isn't an American thing. And and what I think, again, without knowing him, because I've never interacted with Dave Fix, is that he looked, you know, looked at it in the past, you know, looked back and was just like, I'm just going to pretend I never did that. I think so. I think so. Because that's well, I mean, why else not respond? I mean otherwise you should have either, A, had the conversation, B, gotten the suit, or C, had some other communication come from someone else with American Pinball talking about next steps, about the distributorship or just something. But to my knowledge, we were flipping out Pinball's still a dealer. Well, I mean, no, you'll know when – you'll know it's not. So it's weird. It's weird. This was not a good way to manage it. I get people get mad. That's why the thing is that he hasn't talked to you for over a week now or about a week now. It's so weird. You can't just legally threaten people. Come on, man. And that's why I brought up slap suits because they either – people bring them for like two main reasons. One is to blow the defendant's time and money trying to defend it. Or the other reason is to at least temporarily stop them from talking publicly. Yeah. Come on, Dave. I didn't do anything wrong to you. But why else message what – again, he – and let's be totally fair. All he did was in the first line say tortuous interference. He didn't actually say he was going to do anything. That's why I think it was just a line of intimidation. It was a dot, dot, dot. Yes. We need to discuss this today. Dot, dot, dot. Well, he might need to go to the Cornell Law School's website and brush up on what that actually means. I think what people also need to take away, then we'll end this exclusive content here, is a lot of people may be in the situation thinking to themselves, Dennis, and I think that's why people go after me as well. It's Zach. He finds himself in conflict with people. He just does this, whether it's Kanator, Branchie, whether it's, you know, he just does this with people. And I would say this as closing. You know what? You might be right. But what I would like you to do, listener, if you do believe that, take note on the people that get angry with me. Take note. They all have many things in common, but one of them is the same criticism that they receive from other people as well. And that is they slip into the mistake of focusing more on selfish attention than they are with the company or the brand that they're supposed to be representing as a whole. It is a common feature throughout all of those individuals that get angry with me. they end up slipping into selfishness of needing that attention more so than the importance of the brand and the team that they are supposed to be representing. And then I'll agree with you. Yeah, a lot of people dislike me, and I'm good with that. Can they press stop now? Is this where they press stop, Dennis? Yes. Okay. Stop. There's no more drama. Stop. Love you, Dayfix. Oh, that smoochy interference. Smirchy interference