thanks for tuning into the loser kid pinball podcast i am josh roop with me my co-captain as always scott larson and we are on episode 99 99 we're almost there we're almost to 100 the goal was is i want 100 out on january 11th because that's when the very first episode of of loser kid dropped four years ago. Wow. But we've ran into a little hiccup with our guest still planning on coming on, but it might not be the 11th. We'll let you know in a post. We'll figure it out. Yeah. So, but I'm excited. I'm excited that, uh, Zach many is back and doing better from his surgery. Did you hear this on the podcast? I did. Yeah. He, he had need to have a touch up on his back and I, you don't want to mess around with that. So I, I, I messaged him, send him some goodwill and hopefully he, recovers. No one wants to be in the hospital during the Christmas time, but it sounds like he handled it like a chap. Him and Nicole, many. If you want those games, they're back now, so hit them up. They just released a new game today, which we're going to talk about, which is Bond 60th. I don't know if you technically count it as a new game, but it is a new game. It's a new game. It's a new game. So if you want to pick that up, hit up Zach and Nicole and see if they have any available. I literally have no idea how many what their allotment was. So, yeah, well, very, very scarce. It seems like when it comes to a 50, 550, 500 globally, 500 for the entire globe. If you want that, go hit up flipping out pinball dot com. They've got their phone number and everything there. I like to hit Zach through Messenger. That seems to be the easiest way for me to contact him. So once again, flipping out pinball, we thank them for sponsoring us and and helping us out with our podcast. Yeah, keeps us going. so scott it's been kind of a crazy day it's it's it's the third day of january 2023 i mean we are just three days in and stern says hey it is time to drop a new release it is however we should we should plug a little bit of the little housekeeping first um so just first and first off the the pre the voting now for the Twippy this week in pinball awards. And we were nominated in podcast. And hey, my attitude is it's an honor to be nominated and everybody who was nominated. Great. But go there and just voice voice your opinion. Vote for your favorite podcast. I mean, obviously us, but OK, maybe not. We know your fourth favorite podcast. Yeah, exactly. We should at least be fourth. So go ahead and And it is fun. It's just fun to kind of answer which games you like the most and who you think did the best art package, et cetera, et cetera. So that's the first and foremost. Do your voting for This Week in Pinball. But also coming up is the Pinball Industry Awards. Oh, yes. so that is it's it's a different format but uh very similar in that this is a it's a committee you apply to be on it um and then they rank it and your votes are going to be going to be public after and the awards go out i they're basically different awards one's like a people's choice award one is like a an academy awards right so it's just different formats so it's it's kind of fun to have both options and it's interesting to see what people vote on who are uh who are in the you know in the media versus uh versus ever just all the enthusiasts so it gives you a good uh coupling i agree and i think it gives you that flip that side of that coin right you're still on the same coin but it's giving you a different perspective of what people that dedicate their lives to pinball. Well, maybe not lives, but I mean, I feel like we've dedicated a major hobby. It's a major hobby. And so I feel like these people have a lot more knowledge and decisiveness when it comes to maybe a vote. Yeah. A little unbiasedness. Right. It just depends on the situation. But overall, I think that we're happy with both. I'm glad they're both out there because they serve two different purposes. So if you can sign up to be a judge, hit up Dennis – David Dennis on Messenger and – or you can go straight just to the pinballindustryawards.com website or .net, sorry, .com. And David Dennis runs the Silver Ball Chronicles with Ron Hallett, and it's a great history lesson on pinball. So if you want to catch up on that, that's a great podcast. But if you want to be a part of that committee, submit your judge ballot or submit your judge application and see if you get picked. Yeah. All right. Now on to the stuff that everyone's here for, right? Yeah. I don't think I can do it as good as Craig Poppy does. He puts a lot more tongue into it. I don't want to know. His wife must be proud. I don't want to know. Okay. So we got a 60th anniversary bond. This was leaked. How many months ago? Oh, yeah. And the funny thing is when the pictures were leaked, there were a lot of people who said, no, that can't be it because it has what looks like an LCD screen in it, right? Yeah. Well, it's funny too because I talked to – they shall be renamed. We talked confidentially to some people in the industry and they said, yeah, it's not. Yeah, they said that's fake. And I was like, well, they're very close to the project, so I assume they're not lying. Yeah. Thanks for sending us off the scent trail. Maybe it's because the reception was not so glamorous when it came to the – Right. Well, okay. Now, this release is completely different than any release they have done. And so we're going to have to address the product in isolation. We're also going to have to talk about the availability, and we're also going to talk about that there is only one version of it. Which is a departure from what they have done since Tron. Was Tron the first one with Nellie? Maybe. I think so. Yeah. Well, this is – like you said, this is a first for them. Yeah. I don't think this has ever been done across any pinball company to do a one-off of a theme that they've already done or in the process of doing. They made it very evidently clear when the information got leaked on the day of the reveal or the day before the reveal that Elwin was making this one-off, Gomez then went on to, I want to say, the Insider podcast the day of and announced. He said, yeah, Keith Elwin is making a one-off. It's going to be limited to 500. So all these speculations started swirling, even though he gave us a pretty good idea. It's a street level. Sorry, not street level. It is a classic with no ramps. It's a single level, yeah. Yeah, but a street level uses items you'd get off of the shelf, where there's some custom stuff. I guess in my mind, I consider a street level as in no fancy ball crossing paths. Like it's just all – like what you see is what you get. There's no – So he said retro. He gave us – there was 10 drop targets he gave us, a spinning odd job hat spinner or spinning disc. He talked about a shot he'd never seen before in pinball. I mean there was a lot he gave us, and it was like, wow, this thing sounds epic. and then we were hurrying it was coming out and we were going to see it in like october and then october came and nothing and then someone spilled the beans that we'd see it in november so then november came and someone speculated obviously but yeah it was more of a speculation and then uh well it was at expo that's you know we heard at expo and i think elwynn even said when he was on flipping the script on autism with amanda we should be seeing this in november And then the next thing we know is, well, it's not coming in November. Someone had said that, you know, we should be seeing it before Christmas time. Yeah. Oh, man. There's so many things about this release. Both releases with Bond that have been kind of complex. Yes. This is, okay, it's weird. Yeah. Because it feels like we are trying to drag information and code and all of that out of Stern when I don't blame Stern. I truly think this is completely up to the licensor, and Stern's doing the best they can. But it has been bizarre. Do you think – and this is just us speculating – do you think Stern regrets taking on the James Bond license? And the only reason I ask is we know that sometimes the licensor is used as a shield, right? Sure. We didn't do this because licensor. It's a very, very broad, just kind of covers some stuff, right? But I had someone outside of the pinball hobby send me footage of other stuff that had been licensed and done through the James Bond property and the craziness that these people that were getting the license, what they had to go through on public live TV and other problems behind the scenes. And so the licensor themselves is very difficult to work with. Well, I would say they are – it sounds like they are meticulous in controlling their product. And they're not afraid to pull the plug at the last second to protect that meticulousness and all that. Yeah, and that's – if you have someone who's a little OCD on it, then that's kind of what you get. Okay, your question was, do I speculate that Stern has a little bit of buyer's remorse on the license? Yes, that would be a great way to put it. No. But I will say that they probably didn't anticipate it being as challenging as it was. Because we know that the Bond sales aren't on par with what Rush sales were, with what Godzilla sales were. And that can be a myriad of factors. The question is, if you didn't do Bond, what is your alternative? Because you can't just say, don't do that. You have to have something to put in your place, put in its place. Are you talking the other rumored titles that are out there? Well, either that, they're going to have to fill the catalog with something. Yeah. Bond is an iconic, historic run. I mean, everybody knows who James Bond is. I agree. How many people know who Pokemon is? I think everyone. It is a globally recognized brand. Okay, how many people know who the Rick and Morty are? That's probably true. Probably not as many as James Bond. Not as many. I'd never actually heard of Rick and Morty before it was announced. Yeah. Just other things like that. I mean, it's an iconic film franchise. They've had success with that. So that is my take on it. What's your take? I think that there is a little bit of buyer's remorse. I think that this is – they have dealt with difficult licensors in the past, but this one has been – Well, and again, the fact that it's difficult, we are totally speculating on that. Yes, yes. Because we don't have any information from Stern or from the Bond people. Yes, and designers have never said in public. No, no. No, they haven't said anything. Well, okay. But I'm just saying like – No, I'm joking. I'm joking. We all know that some people can be difficult, and so we're trying to connect the dots. Yeah, correct. Correct. I still think there's a little bit of buyer's remorse, and I think the part that sucks about all this is it just – there's been a mark that has been missed. it feels like by time that james bond finally gets the love from the code and everything this could be bypassed by the next title yeah well so i don't know now the the thing that's holding back the the gomez version of james bond is that the code is is so basic right now yeah that it's it's taking forever uh what version is the code on right now i don't even know like 0.64, I think, is what they announced last week. I'm just doing a quick search to find out. Okay, so they're at 0.80. Okay. So it's made a lot of progress. I have not played the new code. Have you played the new code? No, I haven't tested it since Expo, so that's been two months. I will say 0.80 code still has a long way to go. Still has a long way to go. Stopped 20% of the game to put it in there. I guess overall, it's interesting that they decided to go with an extra version on top of all of this. Okay, who do you think they are? So listening to the Stern Insider podcast, Keith, along with Mark Pacinto, if I remember correctly – I might have slaughtered that. I do apologize, sir. but they talked about how when they were getting ready to work on the bond theme they were they were kind of elbows deep in it already um they had heard whispers that the licensor really wanted a retro style theme a retro style game to to go with the theme since they're very appropriate so keith had put it as he had threw his hat in the ring and and they said yes and so he had some time between cornerstones he had some extra time and he decided let's let's go ahead and do this uh so supposedly it was a request from the licensor to do something like this uh which wouldn't shock me it absolutely doesn't shock me because i can't see stern saying yeah this is a great idea because you know they're you know the venn diagram of interest you have pinball fans bond fans and that overlap in that venn diagram is where your market is right yep well you're kind of right now you have pinball fans bond fans but you also have retro fans and so and you also we're going to talk about it a premium market so how those all intersect um does it hurt sales they have two options or is it or is it irrelevant i think it's irrelevant okay this release is so weird to me it's just i don't know if even stern knows what mark they were going for on this one yeah i think the licensor threw this idea out there they got excited about this idea and they went for it and now on release day it's not going as planned i feel like and i could be entirely wrong i'm just i'm trying to like like i said we're trying to connect dots like you said we're connecting dots i just okay let's talk about the first thing okay the first thing that stands out to me you've got a retro game right okay that that is modernized with lcd and different technology keith don't talk yes lcd but also okay and we'll get to it everybody including me thought that the backbox had an lcd screen yeah and they've taken a picture of the actual rules in this game because it looks like that yes it it legitimately looks like um and in fairness the most recent similar game would be the Beatles. And the Beatles has an LCD screen, and it has these retro real emulations. It was pretty easy to say, oh, that must be what they're doing. So my point being was, we've got a retro layout, right? There's some modernization to it, the LCD screen. But I mean, there's a lot of stuff that is very throwback. You've got drop targets, you've got spinners, you've got it feels very 70s um why did we take the most modern bond and put them on the most retro theme shouldn't we should have the retro theme shouldn't it be flopped right yeah it should have been sean connery and the retro theme on the retro game versus having all the modern stuff on the on the newer game yes i the answer is yes yeah because the retro feel fits with the retro bond yes i mean it's super campy it's super 60s era appropriate and so yeah if i were making decisions I would have done that. I would have done the, done the retro on Sean Connery. Yeah. Instead of all three of your cornerstones, Sean Connery, and then your, your main one. And granted, we don't know how the licensing works. Right. Again, we are, we are, we are playing the game. If we could do what we wanted to do. Yeah. And last time I checked loser kid pinball was not a pinball company. No, it's not. And we have no sway at Stern, as much as you want to believe that. I don't think anybody believes that. I believe it a little. I mean, look at their new hats. I mean, they're using our model. When it comes to hat decisions. Okay. Anywho. So, yeah, I would flip them. I don't fully understand that. You know this is becoming a thing I never noticed but people there more and more people starting to point this out why aren we like color coding the screws like the lcd screens bezel is all black and you screwing it in with these silver screws i don't know if it's that big of a deal but i i would say it all comes down to price um the could you imagine if they're like well i have that screw but i need it in black i mean they would have to have colors for every single screw and is it possible they could do that? Sure. Yeah. But I, I, I don't think you'll ever get that on a game that they're trying to at least make available to the general public. Right. Sure. And if you're screwing in a screw and you, it ends up slipping a little bit, you're going to scratch the powder coat off the screw. Yeah. And then great. Now you have to pull it out and put a new one in. Yeah. So. So let's talk Reveal. It came out this morning, 8 o'clock our time, Mountain Standards, 10 Eastern, 7 Pacific. We got two videos, and one was 40 seconds long, and that was kind of just the here it is trailer. And then the next one was the feature trailer, which was a minute and a half, kind of a little more in-depth of what was on the play field. I'm going to reserve my thoughts first. I want you to go first, Scott. For what the features look like? Just the reveal in general and what you thought of the videos. It's okay. It felt very on par with their style. And they typically have a 90-second sizzle reel. And it's kind of a single, like, it's just one person playing the game. Yeah. And it shows like it kind of shows the shot, shows the drop targets, shows that I don't even know what to call it, the corkscrew shot. Which I think they're calling a figure eight shot. Yeah. And then you have the inline drop targets. So, yeah. And you have the the the slash hat. And it's it's OK. It got the job done. It falls into the realm of it got the job done. There are so many ways you could have made this more awesome. You've seen the videos where they have those small cameras that follow a pinball path. Like they take the glass off and they follow it. And so it just looks amazing when you're actually inside the machine and it's flying around. They should do something like that. I agree. those features so you're so you get more excited about it um but it feels it it it wasn't any different than any of their other releases yeah and i agree i i just i it left me kind of wanting more i wish we'd i wish there would have been a gameplay just as even like a three-minute gameplay but yeah i think that's also up to the licensor as well i think that's uh because that's the other thing too we did not see any clips from the movies we did not hear any sound bites we didn't it was strictly play filled and what's on it and the features of it and so i just it left me wanting more and we've waited how many months for this yeah yeah so and i will say that this is so let's talk about the price point okay you want to do features first or you want to do price point because we were kind of talking about features there for a second okay let's talk about let's finish talking about the features okay we got 10 drop targets okay uh keith said in the insider podcast these are actually fully trippable if i remember correctly i can't remember exactly the word he said but so if you hit one it can trigger the rest to drop as well or what has become more of a theme in his newer games like avengers and godzilla is uh i'm going to call it the boom button because deadpool i think that's the best way to describe it sure you know you you do something it charges up your your your lockdown bar and you can push it to trigger stuff you can actually trigger those drop targets with the boom button on bond which i think is a cool idea as well uh the spinning odd job hat in the middle uh this one has four spinners this is the first time on a pinball machine that has ever had four spinners uh that figure eight is very interesting especially where you shoot it and it comes right back at you but towards your flipper instead of chaos down the middle you got the inline drops um what else is on here there's a stand up with a one-way gate two pop bumpers yeah um did someone check to make sure that those were individually popped right thanks ron yeah get on that ron uh you're missing the giant uh missile that everyone loves yeah i know that in in the figure eight it does have a slight it's not a scoop uh but it's like a saucer it's like it's you know in in bingo games they have the gobble holes this is like a gobbled divot so you know it goes back and it's not really a scoop but it just kind of sits in there and then it just pops it out has a pop out like in a simpsons pinball party how you shoot around into exactly you're right is that exactly the itching scratchy shot in the in the right yep what else i i feel like i'm missing i don't really include like the reels are nice i feel like that's kind of i don't know it's a cool idea is it necessary no but it It's kind of cool to see the LCD there in the middle of the play field. I don't know. Am I missing anything? And the LCD in the middle of the play field is going to be a mixed bag, I guess. Yeah. Because if there is any issues with it, you actually have to replace something that significantly affects ball movement. Yeah. So I have black rows and even like my cannon shot, if it's going really slow, it will actually get into the groove of the cannon circle and it will deflect the path. And so you have the risk of, I'm sure that they've done a good job about making sure it's flat, But after time, you could have some raising, you could have some lowering. That could be a little challenging. It is nice, though, because it is on your play field, and so it does give you information that you can see. Yeah. Yep. So I do like it. It'll be interesting to see how well received it is and how reliable it is. I feel like there's a lot of features for this game. Yeah. I feel like it's a very packed play field, especially for a single-level play field. It's very impressive what they fit in there. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about the elephant in the room. Yeah. I struggle a little bit with this on two levels. Hold on. So how much is the price, Scott? Well, okay, the price is set by the distributors. Yes. However, Stern, I would argue Stern did a disservice to the distributors in selling some directly. Yes. And by them setting the price at roughly $20,000, then it really forces the distributors to sell for a similar price. Like you're going to get some people who mark them up. That's fine. but um i i i talked to a i talked to a local guy and he uh he he has he only has to sell a few of them but i'm assuming the high volume people are and this is me guessing uh 20 30 40 of them and so are you so with him i said well i i consider just like going just slightly under $20,000 because you just have to sell it. You don't, you have to sell a low volume of them. Yeah. But if you're trying to sell 20, 30, 40, what would you set the price at? I mean, you, if you're a high enough volume dealer, you could set it at $20,000, but it's, you still have to move them. And that's a big game to sit on in your inventory. They don't want to keep this around for a year. well and i would argue too that the distributors are kind of fighting not each other but they're they're all fishing in the same pond right yeah uh stern has you know almost a million people following their page sure so when they announce they they have a pretty broad base they are heading to right well about all these mom and pop distributors and dealers the ones that aren't flipping out or the small ones the low volume but yeah I just it kind of took the wind out of the sails I feel like for the other dealers it becomes hard I mean we're talking $20,000 has there been any other game besides Elvira 40th that has been and that was 20 to 25 wasn't it that was like to set your own price it was still kind of set your own price because 9-1-1 Beatles was this much Yeah, it's still a set-your-own-price. However, I would say The Elephant in the Room is not the $20,000. Okay, what's the option? I would say The Elephant in the Room is $20,000 is the only option you can buy. That's true. Because even with Batman, the super limited edition, at $15,000, people could still get the premium edition for 75, 8,000 or something like back in the day. And so you could still get that option. But this, they're not allowing that, which is interesting because if I looked at this game, I would think it probably just guesstimating the build materials, you're probably on par with a standard premium. once you factor in the LCD screen and the mechanical reels. And so where am I estimating the budget? I'd say that the build on this would probably be between $5,000 to $6,000. Okay. Because that's typically – if you're manufacturing something, it typically ends up costing about half the price of the retail. Okay. And that's just how most businesses work. And then they sell to distributors and they make a profit on that. And then the distributors can sell it on and get a profit on that. So if this were available in like a standard, I would expect the pricing to be about $9,500. So the question is, if there was a standard, would you go for it? I'm nervous just because it's an unknown quantity. The other bond code is so slow in coming out that I still feel like I haven't experienced the game. On this one, that's a big price that you're doing. if you're gonna have a designer that has the best track record I mean it's Elwin because he has 4 for 4 of the best games of all time and so I'm sure that this will be a solid shooter now he's not doing the code on this one no he was he did have input it seemed like they worked together on it so this is a you know what i would at 9500 i would buy this game um i i can't justify the and this is a personal thing right and because we know that i'm not in the market for every game out there at different price points and so this is this is only scott larson's price point yeah but there are plenty of people out there who say no i'm happy to spend that much on the game and it's a really cool game and i have one of one of 500 yeah so what at what what price point would you buy this i might might consider it 9500 okay so basically on par with a premium yes i think elwin can compensate for rams sure i think his designs are that good they're all fun yeah they're all I think I would love to have a retro style game in my collection. And when nothing would make me happier than to have L one on the design of it. Cause this is a, this is a man that grew up on the classics. And so he knows how to, to design a game, especially like we've never seen this before. We've never seen the top dog make what he thinks would be the best seventies retro game. Yeah. 95. I still feel like it's a little steep, but then again you know tna was what eight eight to ten eight thousand i think was the last the last run was eight thousand right so it's not i mean it's not too far out of the ballpark yeah i would say with with the reels and the lcd screen in the apron or is not in the apron in the play field i that's what kicked up the features to on par a premium where you typically expect wire forms or you expect some special ramps. So that is the upgrade aspect that I assigned to this. And like I said, I think the reels are great. But honestly, strip out the reels, put an LCD there, don't put it in the play field. Sell it as a cornerstone. It would be very intriguing to see what happens. Yeah, I'll be interested to see what the demand is because you are going after a very specific demographic you are only going after whales on this one yeah you're going after people who are pinball enthusiasts and you're going for whales at this point though like i've talked to a lot of people that granted have a lot more money than me sure and they're just like no i i cannot justify this not even if like people talk big though i wonder if they will sell out quickly like is there any available i guess they sold out through the stern store they did sell through the stern store but we don't know how many they had yeah how many of the 500 from the distributors i have talked to which has been a handful yeah it's funny because someone did point out like when you say distributors you only mean flipping out no trust me no no we know more distributors yeah actually i don't even bother zach on this day i actually don't either because i'm like uh i unless if i want the pinball machine i am not taking away from his attention because this is one of the most profitable days for them you know yeah uh but from the distributors i have talked to these aren't moving quick um the 60 the 60th is not moving quick yeah um so it just it becomes a weird thing we'll find out by the end of the week uh where where everything kind of lands um i pin sites fantastic at giving good information giving false information so it'll be interesting to see kind of by the end of the week what what we what happens with this um i just don't see Typically, I have one or two people that are like, yes, no matter what, I'm doing it. There's even a gentleman here in Utah that when I told him about this three months ago, when stuff had kind of leaked, he said, I'm in for it. And today he saw it and he said, no, I just – I can't. It's hard. I can't justify it. Okay, but this is a test case for Stern. But what are they testing though? I think they're testing to see if there is a bigger market for a Supreme-style game where you are selling exclusivity. That's what the markup is. The markup is exclusivity. Okay, this is the gospel according to Josh. Okay. So take it for what it's worth. Take it with a grain of salt. Josh, chapter 2, verse 4. Correct. Stern needs to realize they are the love letter to themes and to pop culture. They are not the pop culture. They are not the supreme. They are the people that make stuff for supreme. People love pinball. Pinball has been around for almost a century now in the mechanical electrical form. But the problem is people buy themes first. We've talked about this a million times. someone had made a good point to us think back to when you bought your first game did you buy it based off of gameplay? nope I knew nothing about it and I bought Simpsons because I thought cool I knew nothing about Spiderman I knew I wanted a cheap pinball machine and I bought Gottlieb's Amazing Spiderman it is amazingly unfunctional and my parents bought Teenage Mutant Turtles the Data East and that one i would actually probably take amazing spider-man over i would take over data he's turtles it wasn't until my third game that i was like okay i want something newer with a dmd and a multiball so i got world cup soccer and i love it and then i realized well what i really do want is more like modes because i was starting to play like see gameplay for adam's family and and Twilight Zone and stuff like that. I'm like, so I want a mode-based game. So it wasn't until about my fourth pin that I really started worrying about gameplay, right? Right. That's four pins. Mm-hmm. You know if you buying solely off a theme even if you a big pawn nut did you buy back with Gomez and you not worried anymore Like this has no weight or bearing on your decision because you bought the game you wanted based off a theme I mean this is such a small niche. I don't understand what – because a lot of people are like, well, they're trying to see what Elwynn's name commands, right? Maybe. But the problem is it's a single level. It's not like they're doing a full-blown Elwynn game and then limiting it to 500 and doing an exclusivity on that. There's a lot of weird factors to this one, and it's hard to nail down exactly what this is supposed to be. However, I will push back a little bit on this in that I guarantee that Stern does market research, finds things that are interested, like how many people are actually interested in the product. And so having Stern, knowing that they actually do this analysis, this is even back when I was talking about toppers and saying that they should sell toppers for $3.50 and sell a billion of them. And the bottom line is I don't have any data to back that up. There should be – the market analysis people will say, well, if I could sell – if I could make 1,000 toppers at $300 versus if I sell it for $800 and I can make 200 toppers and make the same amount of money, which one would I do? Produce less and make more. Right. And so this is a test case for we are going on that side of the market curve and seeing if we can do – basically make a higher profit margin with less numbers. Now, this is not their standard release. These are not – this is not the only direction they do. But to be fair, car companies do this too. and how many Lamborghini how many Lamborghinis are made in a year? I can't remember. Well, it's like a Lotus. Don't they all make 10 Lotuses through the whole year? It's like they make more Lamborghinis than that, but it's still not a crazy amount. And there's you're paying a super premium for a Lamborghini because they don't make it that much. And so they're making a huge profit off each of the games. So that's what This is the test case for this. So I'll be very curious to see how these move. I did a quick search, and I found two that are posted. But they're kind of around that. One's looking to trade, and the other one is looking about $21,000. This game is so weird. I know that we will see further down the road but it was like Beatles right we didn't know that Beatles hadn't sold out until we did that interview with Joe Kimmichow what a year or two after Beatles had come out and he's like by the way we're doing more Beatles we haven't finished all the 1966 and that's when I bought mine because I was like oh they're still available great I'll get mine and well even Zach many on the pinball show But the next week is like, we didn't know they still had Beatles available. Do you think that's what this is going to be? They're going to do like a single run up front first. And then if these just don't sell out, they don't build them. And then if there becomes a bigger demand later on, they're like, by the way, we're throwing this back on the line. We know it's been two years later. I don't know. I actually, I would bet that they have all of the distributors committed to what they're going to take. because that is a quick revenue stream for Stern because they can make them, sell them to distributors. They have the cash. Distributors have the games. Usually the way it works is the distributor asks for an allotment. Stern gives them a certain amount of it, right? A lot of people don't want to turn that away in fear of they don't want to lose numbers, right? Right. Especially like God's will. They don't want to be downgraded in the amount of games they get. Correct. do you think we see people turn away allotment on this because of the price i would say maybe some of the smaller ones however even the even the smaller one that i talked to you know it's still it's a big investment to have that much money tied up in a single product that you are waiting to sell for you know a decent profit i mean the the they're going to make more on selling this one game than they would by selling a premium or a pro they will but is where's the trade-off is it worth um is it worth the the three to five times the amount that you'll get from a premium or pro if you have such a hard time selling it and then you're sitting on this game that you have paid and a high price for. So do you want to have $50,000 to $100,000 in inventory tied up on a handful of games, or would you rather have your inventory be an allotment of pros, premiums, and home editions? I think the other thing that hurts them on this too is I've heard it time and time again. A lot of people feel like this has a home pin feel to it. I don't know if it's the shooter knob that looks like the Jurassic Park. It's the same identical knob you find on the home pins, but it's just kind of printed to whatever. Yeah. You know, Jurassic Park or the Union Jack is what's on this one. Yeah. Here's my thought. You drop the topper, you drop the reels. You drop $5,000. Maybe drop something else off there. Okay. Let's also talk about the topper. Does it do anything? Not that I know of. It's just a black box. It's pretty. Yeah. But and it does come with the topper. Right. It surprisingly didn't come with our blades, though. So that that was a little surprising. And I I will point out that the art on this is is a montage of the of the movie posters. I would love to pick Kevin O'Connor's brain because he was the artist behind this. This is obviously what the licensor wanted. They wanted it as close to the film product as possible, which is why you're going to get this mashup of movies on the side. Okay, over. I don't know. I just feel like at the end of the day, this is a swing and a miss. okay i but we need to we need to separate the marketing of the game from the game true okay let me put it this way i think this very much has the toy story effect everyone looks at toy story it says i love the layout it's a great game toy story is a fun game I enjoy the play, just out of my price range. I think that's what you're going to get with this. People are going to go, it's L1. It shoots amazing. I think once you get to play this and you get to shoot the combination shot to hit the four spinners, I think you're going to go, man, this game is fire. I'm sure it is. Every game, though, you have to consider, is this worth two or three games? Yeah. Because that's what you would exchange this for in your collection. Would you – you've not played this yet. No. Would you – obviously, you have Godzilla and Deadpool, but would you take this game over a Deadpool and a Godzilla Premium? I wouldn't. See? But there are people who legitimately have more disposable income than me. Yeah, that's very true. Globally, there has been a recession, right? It's not just America. Well, and inflation. Yes. Recession and inflation. Yeah, I'm not getting paid anymore, and the cost of everything is up 10%. What's eggs? I went to get eggs from Walmart the other day. We usually get an 18-pack, and it's like $22 right now. It's out of control. An 18-pack of eggs is $22? Because how much it was in our neck of the woods, I don't know how much it is yours. I know if you go to Costco and to Sam's Club. Are they dinosaur eggs? I don't know, man. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just blowing smoke. Wow. It's possible, but man. Oh, no, I'm talking, sorry, $22 for the 218. So what is that, 36? The 36-pack. Okay, all right. you know the one that it's got like the two stacks of eggs yeah because we go through a lot of eggs okay i i see at at the at the walmart's i see 60 eggs for 25 bucks so yeah yeah it's 42 cents an egg yeah when what six months ago a year ago you could get one of those for 10 bucks yeah i really I had no idea. That's amazing. Crazy, huh? This is where we're at. I think we hit the iron. The iron has cooled off. And I'm not saying that the pinball bubble is bursting or anything like that. I'm just saying the fact that people can now go on vacations. Prices have gotten a little out of control on cost of living in general. and so the first thing you're going to do is cut out your hobbies or like your non-necessities right right and and pinball is a luxury nobody needs a pinball machine they they they don't um but they're obviously fun to have right yeah but yeah luxury items and pinball is a luxury item they're the ones that are the canary in the coal mine for when people are feeling the pinch of financial I guess financial frugality. It looks fun though. I think it looks fun. I do like it. I'm not going to lie. I would like to own it. But then again, Elwynn we trust. That's just me. So I would love to have this in my collection. I just cannot justify the price tag for what it is. It's exactly what I said with Toy Story 4. There's nothing wrong with Toy Story 4. I just cannot justify I would buy Toy Story at $8,500. I really enjoyed it at Expo. It was a fun game. I just cannot justify the game for the price. That's it. I am curious, though. If you are planning on buying this, let us know. Let us know why. I've talked to about 30 different people today, and they have all said no. And one of them buys all the high-end stuff. So it makes me curious. People will say that, but then... yeah the fomo hits fomo sets it and they're like never mind yeah i mean it's uh halloween sold out just by a picture right and i think i think that's where some of the hate we're seeing is today because everyone loves l1 right yeah like you don't want to miss out on an l1 game and the barrier to entry for this game is pretty steep and so a lot of people i think it is catered to a small amount yeah i think there's a lot of people are going to hate on it because it's the fact that they can't have it. Well, there's 250 likely that will be in the United States. Roughly, it's like 50-50 for domestic versus abroad. Even if you push that up to 300, I mean, 300 divided by 50 states, you're looking at six per state. If anyone in Utah is getting this game, please let us know. I want to come over and play it. I actually do want to play it. My understanding is these will be shipping out in the next month. They're going to build them and get rid of them. Do you think that in six months to a year, will these be on the secondhand market? So let's give it a year. So next January, three options. Secondhand market, they're selling for more than $20,000. Same as $20,000, less than $20,000. i i bet it's you see some deflation with it i just okay you're seeing that with everything so this is one of the first games that you're anticipating some sort of deflation yeah i feel like we've been seeing deflation with a lot of games right now uh the only game that really has stood on the test of time of deflation is godzilla right now those are still high demand selling for more than what you can buy them for. But everything else, it's kind of, you can get for either MSRP or $1,000 or two less at this point. So it just depends on game and gameplay and demand for that game, you know? I actually am speculating that in a year, these will still be around $20,000. just because of the limited nature of it. Yeah. And this is, there are only 500 of these. I don't know, my nervousness is in a year they're still sitting inside of the warehouse because... Well, that would be the distributor's nightmare because you don't want to sit on inventory for a year. Exactly, especially your most expensive inventory. Yeah. so i if dealers get to get the early adopters and they're able to to sell it quickly and make a quick buck then that's the ideal for them yeah but i wonder what happens if there are you know if you if you have 501 people who are interested in 500 games you have competition yeah if there are 499 interested, then they can go wherever there's, there is that extra one available. Here's an idea. I'm going to, I'm going to pitch this to you. I know I pitched it to a distributor today at $20,000. We're in the pricing of a cheap car, brand new off the lot. do you think we should start off offering leasing options and you have the option to buy after a year or whatever your lease is or you could trade in for a newer newer model yeah it's it's an interesting thought i'm sure there are people who because there are people who rent out games all the time right yeah you know they'll rent out for anywhere from 100 to $250 a month. That, yeah, on something like this, though, I don't know if this game I would be comfortable leasing out because what happens if one person walks by the game and scratches the entire side with a rivet on their jeans or just something that completely dings the cabinet, then you're like, oh, well, that's obviously going to take away from the value. Well, and let's talk about that. Let's talk about renting out pinball machines. That has become a really big market. Do you think it is viable to buy this and rent it out? Because most people I know that rent them out, rent them out for anywhere from about $250 to $350 a month, and you have to guarantee so many months. You would have to be $500 a month on this one. Okay. If you rented it, you would have to do $500 a month, and I would probably do a four-month minimum. I mean, it's not a half-bad idea. If you really want one of these, but you don't want to do the price, maybe that's your option. Get it the first month you play it or whatever. I'm shocked at how quickly some people turn over games, by the way. I am not that guy. I do not pin around. I buy a pin and I have it for years. Yeah. But there are so many people I know is they, they're sending me updates on their, on their inventory. I'm like, when did you get that? Oh, I sold it last week. Oh wait, when, wait, what did you sell? I didn't even know you had that game. Oh yeah. I bought that a month ago. Yeah. So I don't go through games that fast. Some people do. If you have some FOMO, if you love L1, maybe this is your option for you is, is buy it, lease it out for a little bit. It brings down that price tag. I just, it's kind of weird, but then again, you would have one of 500, like Scott was saying, they're probably going to be 300 in the U S maybe that's an option. I know it's not a fantastic option. Cause then you've got that fear of, like Scott said, you know, someone walks by, it scratches the crap out of it, or it's in a home with a bunch of kids and the kids do who knows what to it you know or i don't know you put it in the with the poor men and they put all their beers on it i don't know you know what i'm saying i dream it drew and ian but that that's that is an option if you want the game but you don't want the price tag maybe at least i i know that i'm probably gonna get yelled at for that one but well it's an option it's an option yeah yeah it's not i'm just trying to help you out i know you listener i know that you're looking at this game you're going ah but i want elwynn i and i want this game but i don't want to pay twenty thousand dollars for it i'll be really curious to see if they are just sold out yeah this is something i'll have to keep up with i know we're having elwynn on here soon uh so i really want to know about the design process because our biggest concern is with the limited availability and the price point but yeah really the game looks pretty solid yeah it does look solid and it looks fun i like that figure eight that is that is something i've never seen before on a pillow machine and that four spinners that just sounds epic where you you shoot that that left side under the figure eight because it goes through one spinner comes back through another spinner ricochet it right off that that left flipper up through the orbit on the right side through another spinner and it comes back right down the middle through the last spinner and oh that just it sounds epic and they're all opto spinners so these things are going to be juiced yeah they're gonna um i i love inline drop targets yep and i i love a shot that goes back to the shooter lane like i do like that i don't know scott just go crazy just buy one of these and that can come to your house yeah we doing a renovation right now i am not in the market for any machines oh come on sell off a couple you don need beetles anymore This will replace Beatles Yeah I have to sell three games to buy this Beatles will give you a good down payment towards this Yes. All right. Send us your thoughts. We said we were going to only do a 30-minute to 40-minute episode, but obviously we lied. We got sidetracked. But really, this really was more of a discussion irrespective of L-160, Bond 60. This is more of a discussion on pinball market trends. This is 60 minutes on pinball market trends. Yep. I think overall, like I said, I think we all feel the same way. It looks like a fun game. We don't know where the code and stuff is going to be at, where the assets are going to be at. we know it's l1 so it's going to shoot great it's going to feel great when you're shooting it um it just that price tag we all are a little bit of cringe yeah well but again i'm there they probably did the market analysis on that so here's what it is you stern that's the reason they're the big dogs they know how to make these risks take these risks and uh i thought i totally thought that batman 66 the sle i was of that of that opinion is like no one's gonna pay that they did they did but they only made 60 of them right uh or 80 i thought they made 80 of them because they did 30 and then there ended up being more demand and so they magically came up with another 50 to make it 80 but um 80 is you know you have to get more to get up to 500 you know now that you say that i'm very curious let's let's just hurry and pull up this is going to take just a second i want to know what a batman sle is at right now because they're more limited granted you can buy a premium you can uh there's different versions where this one is one of one for 500 you know i just uh sle is not the super le right yeah it is sle is the super le yeah someone's asking 34 000 right now on yeah i see that on a pin side boca raton boca raton oh that's the only one i see so i guess i don't know i i guess it's hard because these aren't Segmented it out. If they had just an SLE, you could go in and go see what the previous payments are. I guess we could really dig through this if we want to. You know what? If you're interested in this, go ahead and do that. Okay, but that does show you that for a limited market, a limited amount, there is a market for that. There are people who buy games just for the exclusivity, and that's what this game is. True. I'm excited. I'm excited for 100. like i said we're doing something a little different so we did have a couple people message like you didn't do your typical christmas episode and it's like well honestly people okay i've sent scott pictures of what i've been doing i have been yeah installing a bathroom for my son since i got back from expo yeah okay i did just look it up 2016 was batman 66 so it's 16 six years ago okay um yeah yeah you've been doing a bathroom my whole main level is it's being painted right now so that's nice but it's um yeah we've been living in the basement for two and a half months and if anybody has gone through that they know how challenging it is especially if you have a few kids so we have been trying to keep our nose above the water i get you i got i've got one quick question let's end it on this okay gomez had confirm there's only gonna be two more cornerstones this year we're hearing rumors of eddie on venom okay and jack danger on foo fighters that's the rumors we're hearing right now okay it's not a guarantee but it is what it is we did not have an l1 cornerstone last year doesn't look like we're going to have one this year are you even buying interested in buying pinball at this point yes because he's not the... He has the most proven track record, but Rush is a solid game. Yeah. So that's your Borg game. And Borg has a history of some big hits. I mean, come on, Metallica. And Aerosmith's actually a fun game. I would totally own an Aerosmith. Tron. Tron, yeah. So there's that. And Eddie, my kids' favorite games are Medieval Madness and Attack from Mars. And his Stranger Things shot up in popularity after it was released. And Mandalorian, I mean, Mandalorian is still a fun game. It's different. It's a challenging game. So Eddie still has a good reputation. Jack Danger is the wild card. But in fairness, his Jurassic Park Home Edition is really fun. I would own it. Yeah. So they have solid designers. They put out consistently solid products, which is why I think that you can still buy a Stern and be confident that, one, it will be functional and reliable. and two you're not going to lose much money on it if at all yeah i agree i think that 2023 is going to be interesting i hope it doesn't feel like 2022 yeah my wish list though my wish list is stern decides to release a premium version of this and i will buy it yep that's my wish list oh come on buy it and lease it out yeah how much do you want to end up from josh $500 for one month Yeah I know It's a heck of a lot cheaper than buying it for $20,000 That's not even gas driving out to Bernal I'll come pick it up from you I'll white glove service it Man I will Alright Scott Man it's I can't believe it has been four years I want to thank Everyone that's gotten us to this point I know we're not at episode 100 I don't know if we'll be able to discuss this With our guests because we're going to be focusing on them. Yeah. But I want to give a special thanks to Ryan Kaz, to Martin Robbins, to Zach many for saying, yeah, you guys sound good. You should keep going with it. You should, uh, cause the first episode we recorded, it was just me. It was an eight minute segment. I send it off to them and they said, it sounded professional. Keep doing it, you know? And, uh, it wasn't for them. And I, I don't know where Loser Kid would be at. We've obviously made a couple fans over the years. It's been a pretty awesome ride. I want to thank the friends that we've made. Literally, there are way too many to talk about, but we are friends with so many people in the community, and it is all through people being the silent third member in this. I hope that people view this as if you are driving and listening to us in the car you want to jump in on the conversation you're just hearing two people talk and that's what I've loved most about it and I've loved that you you reached out to me after the first episode and asked if I had any interest and apparently I have a big mouth so well I thought you'd do good because we talked podcasts all the time yeah we would call each other a lot did you hear what was on head to head What about slam till? Yeah, exactly. It's weird. It's weird to look at the how the landscape has changed since we've gone to podcasting as well. It was really interesting because we were in in the podcast realm for a year or maybe six months. And then a lot of people's like, OK, I'm not podcasting anymore. OK, I'm done. I'm not doing that. And so it really we kind of looked around like, OK, are we missing something? Because we still like talking. So, yeah. well and and the new people that have thrown their hats in it's it's weird they're great yeah they're great it's weird to think they're kind of an elder statesman of the podcasting um but no i i made me happy to see triple drain on the nominee for twippies i think they've done a really great job they have a solid they really have a great dynamic uh with uh joel tom and travis it was awesome to see the pinball room uh steve condis condris i'm sorry dude i probably slaughtered your last name yeah but i've known steve for years we used to do salt lake gaming con he was one of the guys up there that would always be there steve gave me some some pointers on if i ever wanted to run out pinball machine steve is a great guy if you've not checked out his videos check out his youtube all homebrew stuff how to make your own stuff from scratch they're amazing steve has put a lot of energy into these didn't he also do that that point of view video on godzilla i think so yeah so i'm like do that stern go watch that video and do that for your reveal put that in there the one i wish i i don't know why but george our friend george fisher from don't panic flip did not make streaming and it kind of threw me for a loop because George's he's a great guy and a great player and just his equipment and everything he's on a professional level of streaming and I guess the other one that kind of shocked me too, Poorman didn't make it this year it totally is just random, I mean we didn't make it one year just random, dude, like the pinball network has like 5 of the 10 spots on the list Yeah, but we didn't make it last year, I think. No, it was the year before. Okay, but still, it's just like – We were number four, dude. It was. All right. We were number four. Yeah, but it's still just – I'm so glad that people find joy out of doing this and listening to us and listening to all our friends. We're friends with all the podcasters. We know them and we wish them the best too. Yep. I agree. It's always great to go. It stinks I won't be at Texas Pinball Festival. If I had some stuff come up, I was planning on it. I just – life happens, right? And I'm kind of on the fence, actually. I may not be able to make it. Dude. Yeah. It's been a little challenging getting all the renovation done and lining up everything. I get you. I get you. Well, maybe we'll run into you guys if we decide to go to Expo this year. maybe we should hit another show i don't know we'll talk about it later but we i'm not ready to commit to anything right now i've got to ask you though okay what has been one of your favorite moments of this podcast in the last hundred episodes uh you know what i i will say that having keith and um and eric on you know keith ellen and eric menear as as two of our first guests actually shocked me that, that you just reached out to them and they said, yeah, well, come on. Um, so that's one of those things where you're like, wow, I'm, I'm really talking to these guys. Like I'm asking them questions and they're, they, they seem totally down to earth. Um, anytime you get to talk to Roger Sharp, it is really unbelievable. Like the, the amount of, energy and the amount of enthusiasm he brings to pinball. And I will say his son does the same thing. And we've had Josh on. We've talked to Zach too. But Josh is running the IFPA. Zach obviously does the stuff for Stern. But Josh has a similar enthusiasm for something that takes so much time and provides a lot of joy to people. So I have loved all the guests that we've had, and those are just kind of the things because they're so iconic in the sport of pinball. I agree. I think one of the standout moments is having – getting to interview Ed Ed Robertson was pretty surreal. Right. That was pretty crazy. Shout out to Ed. He listens to the show. Thanks for coming on, man. And that was – it's cool to grow up listening to the Barenaked Ladies and then have Ed on and just shoot in the breeze about pinball. I think the other moment that kind of shook me out of – like I'm always humble about this. Like I just – we're two guys. We're doing what we love, right? Like I've never done it for fame or fortune. Obviously, we're making millions off this. Right. We are huge streamers. We get dozens of listens. When we won the Pinball Industry Award for podcasting, excellence in podcasting, and it didn't click to me until people were congratulating us. And we talked to some of the judges after the fact, and they said, it's your interviews. We had never seen anyone do the Sharp trifecta before. the fact that you guys got roger sharp zach sharp and Josh Sharpe all within a month of a half a month and a half of each other and that was all during covid we didn't have anything to talk about well that's the thing they brought up too is it's like we have no news everything's shut down and you guys were like forget it instead of there's no news you guys created news you started hitting interviews and i think that was the year two that that manufacturers started reaching out to us to do their interviews. And that's why I was shocked. I will say the proudest moment I have is, and I take no credit for this. This is all Josh. For him organizing, flipping the script, getting everything together, finding the cause, finding the donors, teaming up with everybody who was involved. and being able to raise $26,000, $27,000 for families in need. And it's crazy. You want to make a difference in the world, and most of us are only able to do it in small amounts. And I would say that that was definitely a small amount to 21 families, which I will always be proud of and honored that we were part of that. 31 families actually ended up being 32 after the fact, but yeah, 31 was our original goal. Yeah. And yeah, that definitely has been a cherry on top of everything. It was, the world's been really weird. You know, we started podcasting COVID hit a year later and, and kind of everything went to crap. I think some of us lost humanity or faith in humanity because some of the chaos. Yeah. There's a lot of anger out there too. Don't share. There's a lot of divisiveness and anger. And it was amazing to see. We had so many people come together for flipping the script in front of the cameras, behind the cameras, the donors. I counted. I mean, just on screen, we had what? 20 different people. between those that were helping run it, those that were interviewing interviewees. I mean, we only had 20 items to donate or that were donated at the beginning. By the end of it, 76 items is what we had. And like you said, all the people that stepped up that were very selfless in doing so. And yeah, 31 families. And those families' lives will forever be changed. I mean, this community has given those kids life, skills, and a head start that they'll be able to live, as they put it, a neurotypical life. And it's amazing. No, I agree with you, Scott. That probably – That almost seems aside from the podcast, but the podcast allowed us to do that. Yeah, and it was amazing. Okay. Well, we should wrap this up, and I'm really looking forward to our next guest. It'll be awesome. Me too. This is a gentleman that has not done a pinball podcast. I don't know if ever. I know he's done plenty of other podcasts. He is famous for other things, but we take him for granted in the pinball hobby. Did you really say we take it for granted? I think we take him for granted. Okay, you know it's granted, right? No, this is stone. This is kind of stone. There are people that know of this gentleman, and I know that as soon as we bring him on and we start talking, and you're going to be like, holy crap. Oh, that guy. He's that guy. Basically, I was that when I was like, I don't know. I'm not familiar with that. And Josh told me. I'm like, oh, yeah, no, I definitely know that guy. When I started naming all the games that this person had been involved in, it's kind of like it's mind-blowing. It's going to be epic. Well, we'll see you in one to two weeks. Yep, one to two weeks. Shut up and sit down. Bye-bye.