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The Pinball Show Ep 153: Toity, Hoity, Shucksy, & Gomie

The Pinball Network·video·1h 45m·analyzed·May 21, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.037

TL;DR

John Wick underperforms vs. Elwynn; Stern plans Spike 3 refresh; Pedretta reveals Funhouse remake at $9,999 LE.

Summary

Pinball Show Ep 153 features discussions on John Wick Pinball's post-launch status, Stern's production scheduling, George Gomez's interviews addressing licensing restrictions and future hardware, Barrels of Fun manufacturing updates, and the new Pedretta Gaming Funhouse remake. The hosts analyze softer-than-expected John Wick sales, market cooling, and industry dynamics around pricing, operator allocation, and production capacity.

Key Claims

  • George Gomez confirmed in recent interviews that Lionsgate (John Wick licensor) and individual actors imposed restrictions on gun depictions in the game, prohibiting guns in machine art and mechs despite their presence in movie clips.

    high confidence · Craig Bobby reporting on George Gomez's interviews on Flip N Out Pinball and Loser Kids Pinball podcasts

  • Stern walked away from developing a Hunger Games pinball machine due to overly restrictive licensing terms from the licensor.

    high confidence · George Gomez, reported via Craig Bobby summary of interviews

  • John Wick Pro sales will not be available to hobbyists until August 2024, with first run capped for location operators only; John Wick LEs shipping in June and Premiums early to mid-June.

    high confidence · Host discussing Stern's production schedule from recent announcements

  • Venom and Stranger Things are among Stern's highest-earning location games and most-played home environment games, contrary to negative community sentiment.

    high confidence · George Gomez, reported via Craig Bobby

  • Stern's Spike 3 system will feature new CPU board, cabinet redesign, 4K LED screen, and similar node board architecture to Spike 2; parts expected to be visible before end of 2024.

    high confidence · George Gomez, reported via Craig Bobby

  • Barrels of Fun manufactures maximum 18 games per week, has shipped 222 Labyrinth machines, and crossed 750 units sold (out of 1,100 limit) with production completion expected end of 2024.

    high confidence · David Van Es and Brian Savage, Barrels of Fun factory virtual tour and Q&A

  • John Wick Pinball sales are notably softer than Elwynn releases; pricing at $13,000 for LE and market cooling are key factors in reduced consumer confidence.

    medium confidence · Host and co-host discussion of market feedback and hobbyist sentiment

  • Pedretta Gaming's Funhouse remake will come in Limited Edition (750 units, $9,999) and Classic Edition ($7,499), both with 21.5" LCD, 4" mini screen, RGB LEDs, and new Funhouse 2.0 code by Pedretta.

Notable Quotes

  • “George is unquestionably one of the most likable leaders in the pinball hobby, and I highly recommend taking the time to listen to both of these very informative interviews with him.”

    Craig Bobby@ 9:22 — Endorsement of George Gomez's media presence and credibility as a spokesperson for the industry

  • “A resounding meh for me... Layout looked competent. Probably a decently fun shooter, but I didn't see anything that felt very unique to me.”

    Host (Zach)@ 21:16 — Summary assessment of John Wick's gameplay and design, setting tepid tone for market reception discussion

  • “I think that's a little strong of a take... I feel like someone is going to capture me and do some lashing... don't necessarily internalize all of it, Zach.”

    Co-host (Dennis)@ 27:56 — Pushback on industry doom narrative; acknowledges some legitimacy to dealer/customer grievances from pandemic era

  • “Did anyone honestly think it was going to sell better than an Elwynn game? No. Nothing sells better than Elwynn games.”

    Co-host (Dennis)@ 29:14 — Contextualizes John Wick underperformance as expected given Elwynn's market dominance

  • “For $13,000, I just, because of so many things going on, it's not just that... I don't think it's worth 13, but there's a lot of things going on that make me pass on this. Pricing is a big one.”

    Co-host (Dennis)@ 29:56 — Key market signal: pricing and cumulative factors driving LE purchase resistance

  • “It's a lot harder now. And you have to guess. Like, if this game ends up sucking... We know its value is going to fall. It's going to fall a lot. So who wants to get stuck with a turd?”

Entities

George GomezpersonStern PinballcompanyJohn Wick PinballgamePedretta GamingcompanyFunhouse RemakegameBarrels of Fun PinballcompanyLabyrinthgame

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: John Wick LEs shipping in June 2024; Premiums early to mid-June; Pros not available to hobbyists until August. Stern's staggered approach prioritizes location operators and LE buyers.

    high · Host discusses current production schedule: 'this week, listener, they're going to be producing John Wick LEs... early to mid-June is going to be John Wick Premiums... first time a hobbyist or residential would be able to get a pro is August.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Community sentiment has shifted from pandemic-era FOMO buying to cautious, research-driven purchasing. Secondary market depreciation risk now factors into primary purchase decisions, particularly for uncertain games.

    high · Dennis: 'It's a lot harder now... if this game ends up sucking... We know its value is going to fall. It's going to fall a lot. So who wants to get stuck with a turd?'

  • $

    market_signal: $13,000 LE pricing for John Wick cited as key barrier to sales. Cumulative cost increases over past years have reduced buyer confidence, especially combined with summer seasonality and market cooling.

    high · Dennis: 'For $13,000, I just, because of so many things going on, it's not just that... Pricing is a big one.' Host notes 'pricing... [is] the thing' according to feedback from past LE buyers.

  • ?

    product_concern: John Wick Pinball's art blends incompatible styles (neon noir playfield, comic realism at flippers, photorealistic characters), creating disjointed aesthetic that diverges from film's visual tone.

    medium · Host critique: 'It felt disjointed, like there were different art styles that got merged together... at the flippers... almost Franchi-esque photorealistic... then you move up... that weird diagonal slash of that comic cut phrase.'

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.316

0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. This week on the Pinball Show, it's all about John Wick vs. Rudy as Dennis and I discuss the ongoing post-launch events of John Wick Pinball. updates the Stern Pinball's production schedule, George Gomez clearing the air, current market analysis and how game sales are affected, the new Funhouse remake game from Pedretta Gaming, other pinball industry news, and pinball market trends. The Pinball Show official club members this week get exclusive content covering what I like and what I do not about John Wick Pinball, and changing up our pinball lineups as Dennis and I talk about what has recently left our collections, what has come in, and what titles we plan on owning next. It's the Pinball Show. You want it, so here it is.
1:04
Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality.
1:16
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Pinball Show. This quaint, cute little podcast. Hey, I've been gone for a while. I should send a thank you to Greg Bone for podcasting with me while I was out. was in Virginia. Well, tell me more about her.

high confidence · Craig Bobby reporting official Pedretta Gaming reveal

  • John Wick Pinball art style is inconsistent, blending neon noir, comic realism, and photorealistic character styles, creating a disjointed aesthetic that doesn't align with the film's tone.

    medium confidence · Host (Zach) personal critique of game's visual design

  • Stern will make John Wick accessories available within a couple of weeks; Black Knight shooter rods are back in stock after over a year of unavailability.

    medium confidence · Host reporting on Stern announcements

    • Co-host (Dennis)@ 31:13 — Explains shift in collector behavior: secondary market depreciation risk now factors into primary purchase decisions

  • “Can't we have something where it doesn't just look like we oversaturated everything?”

    Host (Zach)@ 23:18 — Critique of pinball industry's visual design philosophy; advocates for artistic restraint vs. saturation maximization

  • “Neon noir. Well, kind of... Whoever thought of that, is that original to this marketing? I've never heard that term before, but I could kiss the person on their lips, whoever thought of the term neon noir.”

    Co-host (Dennis)@ 24:32 — Appreciation for Stern's marketing framing; reveals that neon noir aesthetic resonates even among skeptical viewers

    • Joel Engelberth
    person
    Josh Roopperson
    Scott Larsonperson
    Craig Bobbyperson
    David Van Esperson
    Brian Savageperson
    Lionsgatecompany
    Elvira (Stern pinball game)game
    Jawsgame
    Venomgame
    Stranger Things (Stern game)game
    Black Knight (rerun)game
    Spike 3product
    Elliot Isemanperson
    Brian Allenperson
    Greg Boneperson
    Zach Minneyperson
    Dennisperson
    ?

    licensing_signal: Lionsgate imposed restrictions on gun/weapon imagery in John Wick machine; individual actors' licensing also prohibited gun depictions in machine art despite guns' prominence in film clips.

    high · Craig Bobby: 'Lionsgate... had their own restrictions about where guns related to the movie could be used... individual actors from the films... did not allow or want their likeness to be used or shown with guns.'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Stern abandoned Hunger Games pinball development due to overly restrictive licensing terms from licensor.

    high · Craig Bobby: 'Stern Pinball had started making a Hunger Games pinball machine, but the licensor was so restrictive that Stern decided to walk away from its development.'

  • ?

    product_launch: Pedretta Gaming officially revealed Funhouse remake in two editions: Limited Edition (750 units, $9,999) and Classic Edition ($7,499). Both feature 21.5" LCD, 4" mini screen, new Funhouse 2.0 code, RGB LEDs, and upgraded components.

    high · Craig Bobby: 'Pedretti Gaming officially revealed their new, much-talked-about remake... The Limited Edition, priced at $9,999, limited to 750 units... The Classic Edition, priced at $7,499...'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Barrels of Fun manufactures maximum 18 games per week; has shipped 222 Labyrinth units out of 1,100-unit limited run; expects completion by end of 2024.

    high · Craig Bobby: 'Barrels of Fun currently manufactures a maximum of 18 games per week and shipped a total of 222 Labyrinth machines to date... currently on track to be done with Labyrinth production by the end of 2024.'

  • ?

    announcement: Stern announced Spike 3 system refresh with new CPU board, cabinet redesign, and 4K LED screen; node board architecture will remain similar to Spike 2. Parts visibility expected before end of 2024.

    high · Craig Bobby: 'Gomez confirmed again that Stern's new Spike 3 system architecture and platform refresh is coming soon... confirmed that the new Spike 3 system would contain a new CPU board, cabinet redesign, and presumably a 4K LED screen.'

  • ?

    supply_chain_signal: Stern released Black Knight shooter rods after over one year of unavailability. Jaws and Elvira game room banners now in stock at distributors.

    high · Host: 'CERN did release over the last week or two... additional Black Knight shooter rods. We have not seen those for over a year... The distribution network now able to sell the Jaws and Elvira game room banners in stock.'

  • ?

    product_concern: John Wick Pinball sales are notably softer than Elwynn releases. Market feedback indicates pricing, game uncertainty, and broader market cooling are key factors. Even strong licensing themes struggle in current environment.

    high · Host: 'John Wick... sales... down... down so far that the entire industry may in fact crumble.' Dennis: 'Did anyone honestly think it was going to sell better than an Elwynn game? No. Nothing sells better than Elwynn games.'

  • ?

    rumor_hype: Barrels of Fun's Game 2 heavily rumored to be Bruce Willis's The Fifth Element. Formal reveal expected late 2024 or early 2025 after Labyrinth production completes.

    medium · Craig Bobby: 'the leading rumor being the Bruce Willis action-adventure The Fifth Element... estimated reveal somewhere in the vicinity of late 2024 or early 2025.'

    • 1:35
    Sorry. Oh, yeah. Pinball. Let's talk about pinball, Dennis. Yeah, pinball. That's what people want to hear. They don't like these 20-minute intros. I know. Sometimes they cry about it. Could you see yourself living in Virginia? Yeah. Virginia is more of a short-term commitment.
    1:53
    It's not you. It's me kind of thing. Okay. Have you been playing a lot of pinball at all? I have not been playing a lot. I got the new lock put on the coin door of my victory.
    2:04
    Okay. All right. And that concludes repairs. Is it like a cam lock? Or did you do the homeowner no key needed? No, no. It's a key one. It was one of those where there was no lock and I just needed to put one in. And I was putting it off. Circle arcade ones. I hate those. Why? Like the quarter circle with the little. Yeah. It's a quarter circle along with the key. Those gross me out. I don't know why. What gross you out? I hate them. No one has a visceral reaction to a lock. God, it's so gross, those locks. What, you work for Yale? What is this? Give me a normal toothed key, man. I don't like those. They're like ATM locks or something or casino slot machine locks. Oh, yes. Back in the day when you had that heavy burden of emptying the ATM machine at your local Piggly Wiggly.
    2:54
    I don't know. I just don't like them at all. You know what I thought I wouldn't like but I loved was I took the family a couple of weeks ago to the monster tricks. You ever done them? Sunday, Sunday, Sunday.
    3:09
    No. You've never been? No. Like that whole. I'm trying to remember if I've ever been to a demolition derby. That might be the closest I've got. I can't remember. If it was, I was a wee lad. We still have people messaging us about the Children's Demolition Derby. I'm going this year. It's the end of June, I believe. Maybe that's all I remember is your retelling. That was an excellent rendition of the Children's Demolition Derby. But, yeah, I went to the monster trucks. I'd never been before, and I really loved it. Like, there's beer, there's popcorn, and there's a bunch of country folk yelling and kids with mullets. I loved it Sign me up I'll go everywhere But it felt a little Harlem Globetrottery though I'm not going to lie What a little too exhibition? Is that what you mean? Like staged? A little staged A little WWE It's like Let me guess Gravedigger's going to win Nonetheless Trucks still go high You know Trucks still crash So I liked it But you knew coming out of the gate The construction-based monster truck. He wasn't going to win. He's no gravedigger. His car isn't built like a big shark or something. He's like construction-aity. I'm like, oh, he's not going to win. If it was, would such a truck eat a ball? Oh, it would. It would be like Roadshow. Red and Ted. I'm fucking going to bed.
    4:44
    Like, let me put my balls in your mouth, Ted. That's one of the worst games Williams made. I did not like Roadshow. I did. Still don't. I still do. If Craig Bobby was a monster truck, would he be the mahogany table?
    5:01
    He's going to put a varnish on his apartment. Mahogany table rolling in. Oh, man. Let's kick it over to Craig Bobby, see what top stories he's conjured up this week.
    5:17
    Hello and welcome back to the Pinball Show's Top Stories. I'm Craig Bobby. Yes, the start of summer in the USA is almost here with the Memorial Day long weekend right around the corner. And what better way to get that party started than with not one but two interviews with George Gomez, Chief Creative Officer at Stern Pinball. George made the publicity rounds this past week as a guest on the YouTube stream Flippin' Out With Friends show with host Joel Engelberth, and then immediately trucked on over to the very popular Loser Kids Pinball podcast with host Josh Roop and Scott Larson. Now, as always, if you want to know the state of the nation with Stern, there's no better and more entertaining person to listen to than George Gomez. Of course, George's reason for checking in with the community, as he likes to say, was to firstly promote Stern's latest release, John Wick Pinball, where he spoke at length about the controversy surrounding the lack of guns featured in the game. Since its official release, some Stern fans have been quite vocal with their criticism of Stern's latest offering that does not feature or show any guns or art in the mechs found in the machine, despite many of the movie clips involving guns and weapons of all types appearing on the LCD screen during gameplay. As usual, George was quite candid, as he usually is during these interviews, and explained that the lack of guns related back to the wishes of Lionsgate, the licensor of John Wick, who had their own restrictions about where guns related to the movie could be used on a device like a pinball machine, which are often found or seen in a commercial or public setting. Also, some of the individual actors from the films who had to be licensed individually for use in Stern's machine did not allow or want their likeness to be used or shown with guns in anything outside of the John Wick film. Well, welcome everybody to the wonderful world of licensed intellectual properties. During his interview, George opened up about just a ton of topics related to Stern, such
    7:28
    Pinball had started making a Hunger Games pinball machine, but the licensor was so restrictive that Stern decided to walk away from its development.
    7:39
    John Wick has a super cool topper that's already in development, but yet to be released. Yes! Stern Pinball will sell OEM speaker-like kits for premium and pool models, like in the limited edition models, but without the cutouts. They will eventually be available on Jaws and John Wick. All LE games going forward will have speaker lights from the factory, and that Stern's expression lighting feature will also be used on more non-music-themed pins in the future. Given all the flack that they've been given about Venom from the community, Stern was surprised that insider-connected data that they collect shows that Venom, along with Stranger Things, are two of the highest-earning games on location, with Venom also taking home the top spot for the most played games in home environment. Gomez confirmed again that Stern's new Spike 3 system architecture and platform refresh is coming soon, parts of which could be seen before the end of this year. And while Gomez didn't confirm any release dates, he did confirm that the new Spike 3 system would contain a new CPU board, cabinet redesign, and presumably a 4K LED screen that he has mentioned before while keeping the node board architecture similar to the Spike 2 system that has become so popular and easy to work with for operators and homeowners alike. George also mentioned that the new Spike 3 system would potentially allow Stern to more easily vault older Stern games that use even older system platforms seen in games like The Lord of the Rings and Tron. However, nothing officially regarding either of these two titles was currently in development, citing that these game licenses would also have to be renewed or renegotiated again prior to production. And just to reiterate, George is unquestionably one of the most likable leaders in the pinball hobby, and I highly recommend taking the time to listen to both of these very informative interviews with him. In other news, Barrels of Fun Pinball opened their doors recently and conducted a virtual tour of their factory in Houston, Texas. Along with the tour, Barrels David Van Ess and Brian Savage did some Q&A with the viewers that also provided some interesting information about one of the newest manufacturers of pinball machines. Barrels of Fun currently manufactures a maximum of 18 games per week and shipped a total of 222 Labyrinth machines to date. They recently crossed the 750 unit mark in sales of Labyrinth, which is limited to a total run of 1,100 units. They said they are currently on track to be done with Labyrinth production by the end of 2024, and David and Brian did not want to make any sort of firm commitment about when they would reveal Game 2 from Barrels of Fun, with the leading rumor being the Bruce Willis action-adventure The Fifth Element. However, they did tease viewers by showing them the door that the work was in progress behind, and would be revealed once their current production on Labyrinth was complete. That puts estimates on their next reveal to be somewhere in the vicinity of late 2024 or early 2025. Speaking of new games, Pedretti Gaming officially revealed their new, much-talked-about remake of the Williams 1990 classic Pat Lawler-designed Funhouse this past week. Say what? The game will come in two versions, a limited edition and a classic edition. Limited to 750 units, the $9,999 limited edition includes two versions of the game, the original Funhaus code and Pedretti's new Funhaus 2.0, Rudy's Nightmare code. Both games use a 21.5 LCD display in the back box. The LE also features all new reimagined Funhaus artwork by artist Brian Allen of Flyland Designs, RGB LEDs, a 4-inch mini screen on the playfield, RGB LEDs in Rudy's eyes, lit interior art blades, midnight blue armor trim, an apron with an RGB LED light show, an enhanced sound system, auto plunger, shaker motor, glare-resistant magic glass, and comes with an engraved Funhaus watch. Woo! Watches with Dennis, eat your heart out. The Classic Edition, priced at $7,499, doesn't have the new art or the 2.0 kit, but is easily upgradable to the 2.0 version because it still comes with the Auto-Punger mini screen and fast boards. A 3D-molded, fully integrated topper will be available for sale for the limited edition model at a later date. The classic edition will have an add-on Rudy's Nightmare Topper available. Well, lots going on in the pinball world, but that's all for this week for the Pinball Show. I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the flip side.
    12:22
    Thanks so much, Craig, for the update. We'll jump right into some of those topics, including Stern Pinball production updates. Last couple of weeks, Dennis, they've been building, they were building Elvira premiums. They were building Jaws premiums. Now, this last week, they built the location John Wick Pros. So those are already on location. Listener, you can probably go to your nearest operator location in Arcade and go play it. And if they don't have it, tap them on the shoulder gently and say, hey, why don't we have John Wick? And they'll reply, well, we will get it very, very soon. We are just waiting to pick one up used.
    13:02
    Honestly, if I'm a location, do you see what they all get for these launch parties? They get hooked up. I guess dealers know you hook up with all this swag. It's a thing. Yeah. Greg was telling me, he's like, oh, do we get like transites? We get like toys. We get plaques. We get, I'm like, what? Banners? We get t-shirts? What the hell?
    13:25
    I'm still fighting to get my damn showroom banner for Jaws. They get a lot. It's almost like a flipping out stream. They've been shipping all those John Wick pros. Honestly, this week, listener, they're going to be producing John Wick LEs. Already? Wow. They're online. So they're going to fly out. I'm interested your thought on their continued production scheduling with new releases, furthermore, being that they're still capping those pros, regardless of how many they're selling, still capping that first run for operators only. They go to the extent of paperwork that needs to be filled out in order to only provide the dealer with approved locations for the pros. You would think to increase sales on John Wick, we'll talk about sales in a minute, not as heavy as like an Elwynn release. Would you think maybe they just say, well, we'll sell as many pros as we can and build as many as we can in this period of time and then ship them out? Or do you think it's smart for them to say, no, we need to get them on location, get hands on them, and filter people more towards the premium LEs, which we will come out with right away, the LEs, and then how the premium, that's going to be made early to mid-June. So we're two to four weeks away from that. What is your thought on this scheduling? Well, I personally think they should stick with the scheduling simply because it is reliant on my joke about how when I ask for a pro, but I want the first one and I can't have it, and then I don't have to commit any money. That's like a thing. It's just sick, and I don't want that disrupted. So I do appreciate it for that reason. In terms of a commercial reason, like if this is wise for them, I don't have a good feel for it. I get the logic of, hey, let's get the game out there, because what's the biggest problem that games have, especially why do unlicensed themes just not work anymore? unless you play an unlicensed theme. There's no nostalgic reason you would want it. So only gameplay can convince you otherwise. And that's not the case for a John Wick or any other known licensed entity. So in that regard, I think that structure makes sense. And the time frame, I think, is condensed enough that I just don't think it's a big deal one way or another. I think that the operators are going to get the pros one way or another. And whether or not people buy the game in the first month or the third month Kind of doesn't seem like a big deal to me. So in that regard, I don't really think it makes much of a difference how they do the approach.
    16:06
    But obviously, at least historically, the LE buyers having to wait a little while doesn't seem to, I mean, maybe they grouse about it, but they still buy. So in that regard, honestly, I just don't think it makes a difference whatsoever. To me, it just really stuck up this release because the first time a hobbyist or a residential would be able to get a pro is August. We're in early May launching a game, June, July, August. That sends a message to me saying, we want people to focus on the premium in LE. We want the LEs, if people want to play this game, they play it in the best form possible, the LE. We sell out. That's a limited run anyway. We'll sell out all those before people can get their hands on Pro. And for this particular release, John Wick, there are going to be a lot of Pro sales, I think. It's a pretty packed Pro game. I mean, I see your point. But I don't think they want to be changing their approach game after game. Like, oh, well, this isn't an L1 game, so let's do a different mix. I just think it's too much of a headache and confusing to everyone. The second run of Pro is going to be August. We talked about that. But June, if we're looking back at June, I said early to mid-June is going to be John Wick Premiums. They're making Ellie's right now. Also in June is going to be Jaws Pro and Premium Runs, as well as probably towards the end of the month, that rerun of Black Knight. Oh, yeah. Black Knight. Yep, that'll be into June. And then comes July.
    17:37
    Hmm. It's pretty quiet in July. Historically, a terrible month for pinball sales. unless you bring out something new that's still old. Hmm, yes. I don't, with the sales of John Wick not being Elwyn-esque, I just wonder, listener, that maybe we see something in July. Yeah, you know, I haven't been hearing a lot about Munsters Pro being brought back, but it would be a game. See if we can get an overhaul in that rules department or what.
    18:14
    The rules are fine. Must be one of the few games I can walk up to and know how to play. Yeah, okay. Yeah, but I think the next Cornerstone we'll see in September, October. So I just wonder if July brings us anything. That's all. Yeah, I would sit and wonder as well. Speaking of bringing us things, Thern Pinball still to release the Venom accessories, Jaws accessories, and we'll talk about the recent interviews with George Gomez, but he's claiming within a couple of weeks we may see John Wick accessories. Well, that would be quite a turn of events if they actually accelerate that timetable. You're damn right it would be. CERN did release over the last week or two here additional Black Knight shooter rods. We have not seen those for over a year. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. CERN releasing shooters on something? Yeah, I'm telling you. So we're still out. Black Knight shooter rods are now available again. Bye-bye-bye. Bye-bye-bye! The other interesting thing is that the distribution network now able to sell the Jaws and Elvira game room banners in stock, flipping out Pimble.com.
    19:30
    Hot damn. Do people really want these banners? Yes, they do. They take up so much space. They're great. They're huge. You all must have mansions. I love that there's like a bootleg banner network. People asked, they were like, who's the authentic ones with two threading, two stripped border threading? Because the bootleg ones only have one strip of white threading. And I'm like, ooh. You got to be able to tell the replicas apart from everything else. I understand that. Let's talk about John Wick. You talked on Eclectic Gamers podcast last week. you and Tony went through the release and launch of Stern Pinball's second cornerstone of 2024, which was John Wick. We spoke about it, myself and Greg Bone, here on the Pinball Show, episode 152. So we've got through a lot of our opinions. But for those who listen to the Pinball Show and they haven't clicked on EGP yet, what were your quick and dirty thoughts on the game itself, whether you want to talk about art, layout, toys, max code, lighting, sound? Like, what did Stanton think about John Wick? For me, just looking at it, I still have not played it. So I want you to have that caveat in mind. It was a resounding... Go to the arcade at Wichita. They've got one. Do they? Yes. I think we might have one up here in Kansas City now, too. I'd rather you go to Wichita. It's a two-and-a-half-hour drive, Zach. It's worth it. Amazing arcade. It's worth it.
    20:58
    I'm starting to think when I'm going to next get down to Wichita. I might actually get down there in August or September. So maybe in time for that next pro run. I'm trying to remember when my next work trip takes me down there.
    21:10
    It was a resounding meh for me. A resounding meh? Yeah, that would be my nutshell summary. Layout looked competent. Probably a decently fun shooter, but I didn't see anything that felt very unique to me. The toys didn't really impress me. I didn't think they were bad. I just thought they looked okay. Don't have a good enough sense on the rule set. I did like that they had clips from all four films. but I do need to note I have not seen film number four so that would mean nothing to me at this current stage. Light show did look great. That's probably the high point would be the light show but of course now expression lighting and on band pin how could I not compliment the lighting and the art was a and I'm not even talking about the guns that the art was a miss for me. A miss? A miss, yeah. It felt like a mishmash of styles and I think the decision to go with a comic approach was very odd for movies that are not based on a comic. Why is it with you and color? You just, you're so opposed to it.
    22:10
    What do you mean? You just wear black and gray? Okay, I do wear a lot of black and gray. You said the same thing about Godzilla. You're like, I would have liked undertones and murkiness. Godzilla, look, Jeremy Packer, I think he went with, like, the poster art approach, but I prefer a more desaturated, kind of aggressive, scary look to Godzilla. I don't criticize much when it's a Marvel thing and you're going to throw a bunch of cups. Here's the thing. All right. It's fair. And I don't want you to feel too judged, Zach. I don't want you to feel emotionally damaged when I say this. But, and listeners as well, because I'm going to pass a really broad brush judgment thing about pinball people. and you're kind of unsophisticated approach to these sort of things. And I don't mean it to sound, you know, all hoity-toity. I don't mean there to be toity on top of the hoity, Zach. I'm just saying that in pinball, it seems like the solution to everything is you just dial the saturation up as high as the graphic program will go and you say it's good because the colors pop. And I'm like, can't we have something where it doesn't just look like we oversaturated everything? Now, this game doesn't look oversaturated to me, But the art decisions just don't feel to me like the movie. That's all. I thought of you when I was editing a tutorial video on how to play John Wick Pinball Pro. You can check it out, Flippin' Out Pinballs YouTube. But when I was messing with saturation levels, I thought of you. I was like, oh, don't, don't boost, Zach. Don't, no, don't touch that. And I'm not always above it either, Zach. And just being like. When you pushed out all those, you had all those shirts designed for the pinball stream. We had the Hulk 2D2 and Nordman. And I took the one, our main one, with the goat. And I turned the saturation all the way up and said, here, this is the version people will really want. And you know what? Honestly, I thought it looked better when I saturated it, too. So even I am not. I succumb to my own hypocrisy on occasion. But anyway. Sometimes you lack the hoity. Well, look at it. It's neon noir. Well, kind of. What a beautiful phrasing. The phrasing is awesome, and I love film noir. It's one of my favorite film genres. Whoever thought of that, is that original to this marketing? I've never heard that term before, but I could kiss the person on their lips, whoever thought of the term neon noir. Stern, let me know who it is. No, there's a whole wiki page you can read about on neon noir. But maybe that's because there was an album that came out last year. It was some Finnish band or something. I don't know anything about it. Some Finnish band. Some Finnish thing. Some Finnish. But anyway, the, well, if you look at the play field, it's really the play field in particular. I could get behind the neon noir approach, but then down at the flippers, it's almost that Franchi-esque photorealistic style of the characters. and then you move up towards the back of the play field, you have that weird diagonal slash of that comic cut phrase. To me, it feels disjointed, like there were different art styles that got merged together. That's what I don't like about it. What I called it on one of my promo videos was comic realism. I think that's a nice term for it. Except for the neon noir part. Comic realism. But when we get to the neon noir part, it's not comic realism anymore. Why do we have to go back? We don't mix Monet with like a pointillism at the same time. That's weird. Safe fix does.
    25:50
    Oh, don't. I don't want to go back. Remember what I'm saying? Yes. I don't want to go back and do that.
    25:56
    It wasn't Monet, though. Grizzly Adams did have a beard. What about, so you thought layout, eh, a neon noir was a bit too neon for you. Layout was fun. More noir, less neon. But very paint by number. Okay. The layout, not the art. The art is different. Have you watched any of the gameplay videos yet I saw a little bit of gameplay the Stern reveal All right So overall man for you You looking forward to playing it But until then, hard to come. Unless the gameplay with the Renegade, I'm not judging the rules at all without having played it. Unless the rules blow me away, I can't see my cell phone in it. If the rules blow me away, my mind will completely change. Because as you know, Zach, for all my toy-diness on art, I never make a buying decision on a game over art. The game can look like a dog. I mean, I own hoops. I mean, come on. You just got shoes untied everywhere. That's a safety hazard. So I got extra violations of concern with that game.
    26:59
    But I would still buy it regardless of what the art looks like as long as the rules are good and the layout accommodates those rules. If you listen to feedback from different hobbyist forums, podcasts, videos, or even propaganda out there, there are strong suggestions that not only are sales down for this particular cornerstone release, Dennis, but down so far that the entire industry may in fact crumble upon itself. Care to comment?
    27:34
    I think that's a little strong of a take. I don't know. If you've not seen some of these providers. I mean, but the way you said it made it sound like, and we're glad for it. Yes. Let them suffer. Let the distributors suffer and the manufacturers suffer. Oh, no, that's definitely there. That's the headline news right now. Well, there's going to be, you've got to understand, Zach. I feel like someone is going to capture me and do some lashing. Like, I feel like I'm looking over my shoulder like, what did I do? Well, you know, don't necessarily internalize all of it, Zach. But, you know, there are some people who felt pretty maligned about how they were treated during the pandemic when it came to trying to get games. Sure. And, you know, you couldn't keep anything in stock. Even total dogs of games were selling because people were just desperate to get anything. Go ahead and do more. There were some, like Halloween. And there were some games that, I should say, there were some dealers who played games with people, you know, marking up prices above MSRP, things like that. And when chickens, you know, there's a thing about chickens and that there's like roosting and sometimes they come home to do that. And I think there's a little bit of that. A little sweet and frotta going on there. All I ask is for no one to kidnap me and lash me out in the village square. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if that's going to have an hour. Now, on the other hand, like John Wick, even before we saw John Wick, we're coming off of an Elwynn game. Did anyone honestly think it was going to sell better than an Elwynn game? No. Nothing sells better than Elwynn games. And we knew the temperature of the market at that point. I mean, even if we take Joel's sales compared to other Elwynn games, they were softer. Still great, but still softer.
    29:37
    Yeah. Things are getting a little tepid. We knew. And then we know summertime. Like, there's a lot of factors going into this. And needless to say, one of them is what we are getting feedback on from a lot of individuals who may have bought LEs in the past. They say pricing. Pricing is the thing. For $13,000, I just, because of so many things going on, it's not just that, you know, I don't think it's worth 13, but there's a lot of things going on that make me pass on this.
    30:11
    So pricing is a big one. Sure. Though, obviously, when the pricing went up, it's not like it went up for this game. When the pricing went up, it did take a lot of people out immediately for obvious reasons. And you and I have had these conversations multiple times because I have been much more skeptical of the notion that, hey, it's only 1,000 more. I think at some point, a lot of people wear 1,000 more is 1,000 too much. And I think the bigger difference, though, why it would change sales at this stage, even though this is not like we saw the price increases prior to 2024. I think the big issue now is it was easier for a lot of people, and I remember you making this argument at the time because it was accurate on this show, that when you can get any of these games and then still sell it at the same price you paid, it's not a hard decision. It's a lot harder now. And you have to guess. Like, if this game ends up sucking, and maybe we're not talking like old school WWE sucking, but just like this is like an average style game now. We know its value is going to fall. It's going to fall a lot. So who wants to get stuck with a turd? Oh. So, you know, like Elwynn, you know, in Elwynn we trust. safe gamble, but even with all of that, will Jaws be his worst selling game of all time? I don't know, because Iron Maiden was a pretty polarizing theme, but we'll see. You made a good point there. There was a lot of things. It needed some check marks, and Elwynn's a check mark. We've talked about this at NOS in before. But what we have here is we have a temperature, an environment in the market right now that would need something pretty strong to see sales continue at the pace in which they were over the last two years. I don't think anything could have done it. No.
    32:05
    Volume-wise, only dramatic price cuts. Even then. Is that even sustainable, though? Even then. But what happened was you got a new designer in Elliot Iseman. Congratulations, Elliot, if you're listening to this or if somebody's listening and works with him. So we got that I always have to think E.T. with him Why did he do E.T.? Hopefully that'll get done I don't know if that'd be a strong seller either You don't think so? It's got nostalgia, unlike John Wick Which is only 10 years old It is one of my favorite films of all time I am a huge lover of E.T. They probably wouldn't even have Reesey Pieces on the playfield They'd have Gomi Pieces What if it played just as bad as the Atari 2600 game? Oh no Did you? Have you ever played it? I own that. I still own it. I own that game. Mine didn't go to a landfill. But we have the new Elliot Eisman, which that's never going to be a selling point for the most part. Jack Danger did... That's Apples and Oranges. Well, no, new designers, not Apples and Oranges.
    33:09
    Granny Smith versus Red Delicious, maybe. It is if that apple was doing streams as a hobbyist for 10 years prior. That's fair. That's fair. So Elliot Ivesman knew. And then you give him a thing. You're not giving him Harry Potter. You're giving him John Wick, which not a horrible theme, but not the one on top of everybody's dream theme list. You go through 25 of the top themes that pinball hobbyists want to see. It's not on that list. So you're already starting from behind. And then you're giving him a summer release. I think, if anything, probably the smartest way Stern could have done this.
    33:49
    I would have probably done all that combination, too. And then bookend it between an Elwynn and a whatever's coming up, Jack Danger coming up. Maybe.
    34:02
    Over the last five years, you've got Foo Fighters and you've got the Elwynns, probably the hottest games in the market. Bookmark something right in between. summer, were you expecting a dip in sales anyway? Were you seeing maybe not as strong a new designer?
    34:18
    You got something coming in July? Maybe. Do you believe that I would have sold more games because I have a couple podcasts versus Elliot?
    34:29
    I mean, I'm no Jack Danger, although I don't want to overstate it. That's where I would say... I mean, I've heard about, you know, giving your Amazon Prime sub is one thing versus, you know, actually buying a whole game because you like someone's stream. I would say yes. Okay. I would agree. But the selling point. I think it's less that. I think that got a lot of acceptance to maybe willingness to give it a go. But I just think his layout for Foo Fires is very unique, and this feels very safe.
    35:05
    Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. But the one thing going for Elliot is he's a mechanical engineer. Oh, sure. That's why I do expect it to actually play quite well. It does play very, very well. We'll get to that. But, yes, I can confirm sales have been down significantly on this release title. Let me ask you another question before you go on. Why do you think Stern used a new designer? Like, they have a lot of them already that have multiple games under their belt. I mean, you've got Brian Eddy. You've got John Borg. You've got Jack Danger. We count the home pins. He's got multiple games under his belt at this point. You've got Keith Elwin. Why bring in Elliott as a designer at all? I don't want to make assumptions or speculations. I want you to guess. There could be a number of reasons. Maybe they're looking to the future.
    35:57
    Maybe they see such a talented person as part of their team. Many organizations do this. And, again, this is totally like I have no clue. This is way off base. But sometimes you've got somebody that is a fucking star, and you can tell. But you don't have a spot for them yet. But you know where they're going, but they're not there yet. And that person may, in fact, go do something else that's simpler, that pays more, that gets more recognition. And if you sniff that and you smell that, you may expedite your appreciation for them to say, damn it, you're in our long-term plans. I would really like for you to – but I can't just give you a raise.
    36:52
    You see what I'm saying? I think I know where you're coming from. Maybe – I see this as an investment. Like he's already been inducted into the Pinball Hall of Fame. He's a mechanical engineer that is so damn good at what he does. He is probably easy to work with based on the personality profile that what very little has been presented to us thus far. There's a lot going for for Elliott. And I think maybe that's why. And if he showed some interest in it already, he was already kind of piddling on things at work. Maybe maybe that's when you get the George Gomez. It said, you know, not everybody's going to be here forever. Some people might retire. Some people may have been taking other interviews with other companies. Like, we've got a plan, so let's give the kid a shot here. And, hey, if we're going to give him a shot on anything, let's throw John Wick his way and see what he does with it.
    37:44
    Okay. Well, thank you for guessing. That would be just simply a guess. So, yes, sales are down. Here's the thing, though. Significantly down sales-wise. However, a lot of people are surprised when I tell them this, though. I always, because they're like, oh, is our sales down, sales down? Yes, I'll be honest with you. But here's the thing. It's still a stern pinball machine, listener. So what many fail to remember is even when sales are down on a particular title like a John Wick,
    38:20
    they still surpass the majority of everything else on the market, even being on their worst day. So I love this game from this manufacturer Why don't John Wick still outsold all of them So yeah They get their own Comparison cohort Still sold more John Wicks Than I did probably the majority of games On the market from other manufacturers is what I'm saying And then at release This is what always happens Especially in a market that is Softer consumers want reasons to convince themselves that they're not getting something they want even if like i'm a pinball enthusiast even if a game comes out that it's not my theme uh i don't particularly like there's still a part of me that wants it because i'm in the hobby i love pinball maybe not blues brothers i really don't care about that but you take another manufacturer game and I'd be like, eh, I'm not going to buy that one. I don't want it. But part of me still kind of wants it, but I need to convince myself of why I don't want it. Then it makes me feel better about my decision or maybe my inability to afford another new game. Just all these new games coming out. So I've got to blame it on something. Enter in gun controversy, in my opinion. Oh, you think that's the piece? I think it's a piece. I mean. It's a piece. Every time that a game comes out, they're going to latch. They as in people who aren't going to buy it or people that want that reasoning. I'm telling you, you go back every title and there's always a thing. I don't understand that, though. I don't like it. Nope. I don't like it. Because it's not strong enough and that's not what our society does. What is this? I mean, what? It's like a flex? When you get a niche little subculture, that's what they do. So that's why you see this controversy. When this thing came out, sales were low. You've seen the whole, this is not only a game we're not buying, but this game is offensive. This game is actually spewing propaganda. This game is involving our rights as U.S. citizens. Like, it goes extreme. And I think that's part of why, usually a lot of times it's price, a lot of times it's theme, a lot of times, but yeah, this one, you're always going to try to find one thing and hammer it home. Because we've seen once other videos came out, gameplay started coming out. Okay. People said, well, I don't like that, but there's video assets, but it does shoot awesome, but it's pretty. And then sales started coming back up again.
    41:20
    So the nice thing about John Wick is what I'm saying. Sails aren't dead in the water. They've actually, there was a resurgence over the last week or so once additional information came out, like there is on every release. This is pretty typical. But jumping into that, there was a big controversy within the subculture. Let's be honest. Nobody outside of pinball knew about this controversy. But within the subculture of enthusiasts, people were very angry that there was no artwork illustrations of guns on the cabinet or the play field art. That was a big one, Dennis. What were your thoughts on the whole gun controversy thing? I thought that it's reasonable for people to have expected there to be guns in the art, and art's a strong reason for them not to want the game. I could completely understand them not buying it, but going through this being some sort of weird conspiracy against the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution, a little bit of a stretch. A lot of people were saying that, a lot of people, I don't know how many, vocal individuals were saying that this was a conscious effort by Stern or even Seth Davis or George Gomez, conscious effort to take a stance on gun ownership or carrying or anything with that. And then George Gomez goes on a couple of interviews and he explains the Stern side of what was really going on. Now, listeners are going to have to decide for themselves what they want to believe. Pretty convincing from George Gomez, if you ask me. But nonetheless, I agree with you. Like, no guns with John Wick art? What?
    43:05
    That's pretty fucked. That's weird. I'm not saying I'm not a gun person. I'm not saying I am a gun person. But John Wick is guns.
    43:15
    I don't know how you get around that. I didn't notice it initially on the artworks. I'm trying to consume everything I can with it. But once it stuck out to me, I was like, oh, yeah, that's really weird.
    43:29
    That's bad. That's not good. We need guns in John Wick. But you know me. I'm a little video asset whore. So once I got that, I'm like, okay, I'd rather have it on the video screen than on the art anyway because I want to see the movie. But a lot of controversy around the whole lack of gun illustrations on the cabinet art. Speaking of which, George Gomez visits with Joel Engelberth at Flippin' Out Pimble and did an interview and expressed and explained why there was no illustrated gun art. And he said it was a restriction by the license or Lionsgate. It wasn't a Stern thing. And he pretty much cleared up the air. in a nutshell, video games have like a rating system. What is it called? ERSB, ESRB, whatever it is. Yeah. He said even like toys, you'll see John Wick toys with guns or graphic novels, all of them have disclaimers, you know, 18 or older, 14 or whatever it may be. He said they came to Stern Pinball and said, hey,
    44:31
    does pinball machines in your industry not have a rating system based on age? And they said no. And he said, okay, well, So they essentially said if that's the case, then you guys are going to be classified, your product, a pinball machine, it's going to be classified as, quote, all ages due to it's going to commercial locations. Anybody can just walk up publicly and see this kind of stuff. So you're all ages. And with that, we're choosing for our license not to have guns depicted unless people can consent to that, a.k.a. pressing the start button and seeing it on the video clips. So that was an IP restriction And he said So that's the truth As to how that happened He's like, you know, we've had guns in games We have no problems with guns He said, now keep in mind, Deadpool Like that same thing there They had to have more fantasy blasters than they did guns He said James Bond Even had restrictions on gun Stuff The licensor didn't want any guns pointing at someone They couldn't have a Walter PPK feature within the game. So there's even restrictions there. But we work with what we can. George Gomez did say there is more sensitivity in general to gun restrictions and violence with licensors over time. But what really surprised Mr. Gomez was that the conspiracy theories aimed at Stern Pimble Stance or Seth Davis, George Gomez,
    46:00
    he was surprised that people didn't by default think, well, it had to be the licensor. He was surprised with that. Do you buy it? No, he just decided to randomly lie. Have you not read Pinside? That's what people say. They're like, no, I don't buy it. So let me get this straight. So conspiracy theory, if one subscribes a lot or comes up with a lot of conspiracy. Try not to use logic, though. Well, I'm just going to point out, if you and your own life notice yourself concocting conspiracy theory, you might need to contemplate that maybe how you do analysis isn't the most straightforward or logical way. And I don't know if there's a way to fix that or not. The Occam's razor? Yeah. But, well, because this whole, like you mentioned, this whole stern taking a stand. See, I don't know. The way I was taught to take a stand is you don't be all mealy mouth about, like, oh, we're just going to pull them out and just, like, that's us taking a stand. No, taking a stand would be actually saying something. Yeah, or just dropping, not doing the licensing together. Like most businesses, they seem to be in the business to make money. So they don't tend to take a lot of stances because they're in business to make money. So, again, especially in the wake of remembering it wasn't that long ago when James Bond came out and they did have guns from the poster art on the game. You know, it's like all of a sudden it's all just it's just it none of it made any sense. And everything that Gomez said made sense. So do I want to go bin myself into a pretzel coming up with the logic about how he's lying and this whole conspiracy thing that got completely fabricated by a bunch of people who don't work there is somehow true or just accept the simple answer that what he said makes sense with everything we've seen as outsiders on licensing. And it is what it is, because that's how it all works. It will. So to me, no, I don't think he lied about it. I do think it's a little weird and maybe a little insular that they didn't really seem like they, when they found out about it, that maybe there would be, I could kind of see how they didn't foresee that there'd be a scandal, because who immediately thinks, you know what, if there's not a gun on the play field, people are going to all of a sudden say that we're like taking political positions and stuff. But that it's since the whole like gun-foo thing is the movies that they still wanted to do the license, I think that is a fair question to ask. Yeah. I think they would have walked away if they wouldn't have got video assets with gun use.
    48:32
    Oh, probably. Yeah. But, again, that's where the whole, to me, the conspiracy theory truly falls apart. It's like, well, why are there guns all throughout the video assets if this whole, like, sending a message thing is true? See, that's the thing about most conspiracy theory. You scratch beneath the surface and it collapses over the weight of its own incompetence. Yeah, nicely done. Yeah, you're correct. You've got to go check out this interview. Do I have to? You've got to. It's good stuff. But I already listened to Loser Kid 1, and I don't want to have to listen to 2. There was some different stuff in there. What's some of the differences? Well, did you know that expression lighting that we love so much on those band games, Not only is it coming to a non-band game such as John Wick Ellie, but very soon to pro and premium John Wick as well. And what was cool about that was George Gomez told us that the whole pioneering work behind the expression lighting system, actually Tim Sexton. It's nicely done. Really? Nicely done, Tim Sexton. I just gave him credit for designing the rules around the Hydra in Black Knight Sword of Rage. Or the hand. No, the hand. I think of the Hydra. So, yeah, nicely done. Because Stern did a Hydra in Deep Root. Remember, they were going to have a Hydra because pricing action.
    49:56
    But Stern's Hydra was better. And real. Yeah, well, that might be what made it better. Also, this expression lighting speaker system is going to come out as a kit, as an accessory for not only John Wick Pro and Premium, but it will be backwards compatible for all Spike 2 games. They're trying to compete with the third-party speaker lighting market. And compete they will because it's all integrated into the code. It's just like the Topper thing. That's why Topper sells so well. See, this is why I didn't buy my burning building speakers for Godzilla. I knew this would be, I could feel it in my bones. And then people said, or then Joel was asking about the LE speaker lighting system and if we're going to see any continuation of that. And Joel said, yeah, moving forward, you can expect them on all the LEs, the speaker lighting system. That's awesome. Very cool. I love this kind of stuff. Also, speaking of licenses, Hunger Games. They were in the process of developing and building a Hunger Games pinball machine years back, and they terminated their contract with a licensor. George Gomez saying, quote, I don't think it's good for you, and I don't think it's good for us. He went on to say it was very painful, and we walked away.
    51:13
    I would love to know what it was about that. They probably only had assets of that. Well, who's that annoying guy, PETA? That PETA guy, the guy named for the bread. PETA, quit dressing yourself up like a rock and do something useful. They didn't have, what was it, Jennifer Lawrence, right? It wasn't? Yeah. She's a Kansas girl, I think. Yeah, Jennifer Lawrence. Well, we have a town called Lawrence. Speaking of controversy in Kansas, let's bring up that kicker you all got. That curve. Whoa, bunker. All right. Oh, talk about sending a message. You see, it ain't subtle when you send a message. That's right. You go out there and you send a message.
    51:52
    I don't even touch that. That's Patreon level right there. Okay, let's see what else we got here. Oh, yeah, the CERN Pinball has the highest earning games per George Gomez and the most played games in arcades. He went on to say, quote, not too far in the future, we're going to have the largest footprint of games. How do they know, though? I don't know. I mean, given their production level versus all the others, I don't have any doubt that they actually do, like, across the world, make more money on Stern versus any other pinball machine for operators. But this kind of reminds me of when we'd hear claims from, like, oh, well, the Galactic Tank Force is the biggest earner. And then, you know, I find out it was one week with one operator, and they just put it in. That right And it like okay well you were honest but maybe misleading Members don lie Maybe misleading Yeah numbers don lie but sometimes numbers do lie It like why is that true in this instance They do lie. They lie a lot. In this situation, it would be hard to confirm that because my argument would be a lot of these really small, old, danky operation games where you see one pinball machine in the corner or two that don't really work, those aren't new sterns. Those are an old Adams family. That's an old solid state game. Like the big locations that have more than five pinball machines, they're easily quantifiable. Yes, probably the footprint is there. But like old rickety crusty bar down the road from me, local tavern, if they have one pinball machine in the corner, it's an old Bally Williams or it's an early salt state. Yeah, I think a lot of that comes down to whether or not, if it's the owner of the venue supplying the games, I think you tend to get that. If they're working with operators that run the routes, that's how the new stuff. Owners don't want to manage both. They're busy running a business, selling food or drink, constantly keeping up a rotation on a game. That is a big labor of love, unless that is your labor, which is running a route. Yeah. It's not what Greg does. He runs a route, right? He doesn't own the venue. Correct. Yep. He just places them there. He just operates. Well, that lets people have more modern stuff and not have to worry about maintaining it because what happens when it's the owner that owns them? Not always, but I'm stereotyping. You get what you just described, some broken down frontier that the crickets don't even crick.
    54:20
    There's hoity but not toity. Yes. We wondered when Spike 3, when we're going to see that, George Gomez saying either this or the loser kid, he's saying maybe by the end of the year, and what we're going to see with the Spike 3 operating system, more power in every way, better everything. It's really just a chance to improve upon any of the issues that they've had over the years with Spike 2 operating system. We're going to have a continued node bus system, which I approve of. I think it's great. And then Joel asked, I found this interesting, asked about a cabinet redesign for the new series of Spike 3 games. And George Gomez confirmed it is part of it. That's exciting because that's going to screw up your lineup. Here's what amuses me. I think that it's just going to be the head.
    55:07
    But the head's the key part to lining stuff up. That's the part I really care about. I don't think they're going to change wing size much, and I think it's just going to be to accommodate a larger LCD screen, in my opinion. They're going JJP. I don't think they're going JJP. I'm not going 27, but I think they're going to. Remember, Jack Danger used to mock up a. I think there's a mod that came out with a larger screen, but a smaller spot for speakers on that black thing. So I think it's going to be black speaker panel modification more than anything. I could be wrong.
    55:44
    Maybe they can move the audio back to mono and make those just one speaker. Pretty much mono anyway. Sturm Pinball, let's see. Insider Connected growing so much, the company's going to need a new department just to compute, organize, and analyze the data coming in. Back catalog of games and dipping back into it recently for Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro. We're going to see more of that. East Coast and West Coast Press Tour. Similar to video games, they invited some people that were non-pinball people. Dennis, how well did that go?
    56:14
    It depends if you're a pinball content creator. I was told that we're downright pissed. Wow, it was bad. People were angry. They were like, we got no guns or no pinball? Talk about sending a message that you don't care about the pinball content creation community. See, that was a message. I feel like maybe an accidental message, but a message. Eh. I was fine with it. I don't want to go out there. Stern typically is, like, surprising to people. Like, why weren't the pinball media, when were the pinball media invited? This has not been a stern thing that they've done. They've had, like, Carl at IE Pinball, you know, they get out a game to him because I think he's helped with some of the animation stuff, tutorial, attract mode kind of stuff. So, but other than that, they've worked internally. They've always been internal. They've got Jack Danger there. They've got Tim Sexton there. They've got Ray there. They haven't really branched. So when people were, like, so surprised, I'm like, what?
    57:21
    Stern haven't done that. That was odd to me. But nonetheless, their whole expanding out and actually inviting non-pinball people, that was different. Because I've seen the influencer-based stuff, which I think is a really good idea. But the influencers have got to be big. some of the influencers that they brought in, they were smaller than straight down the middle.
    57:52
    They were small. So that was a bit odd to me. I'm not saying the content was bad, but sometimes when you bring in people that know the content, they know how to film it a little bit better. That's all. But I think reaching outside of pinball people to get a new audience is smart. I don't think anybody would argue with that. But yeah, some of the content creators were a little upset that they didn't just lend an invite. But they still do have the goal of having some pinball media up there here soon. So we'll see. What, like 12 weeks after the game came out? Who cares now? Yeah. And where's my invite? The pinball show might not have gotten invited. I don't think they'll be inviting Carrie Hardy either. That makes it even better. Nonetheless, I don't think it necessarily invites one to only people who have praised their stuff either. But, yeah, if you damn the inside cover, then yeah. There's this new video game, I think, that's in alpha right now. I can't remember the name exactly. I think it's called Marvel Rivals. It's kind of like an Overwatch knockoff. Anyway, they've been doing this alpha stream like last weekend, And they invited content creators on Twitch to stream it. And then it came out that their disclosure agreements that they all signed said that they weren't allowed to say bad things.
    59:19
    Oh, that's tough. Oh, and then it came out. Of course, that looked horrible for the company. So then they said, we're now amending our agreements so people can feel more open to share their true thoughts.
    59:34
    That's not what you wanted. You wanted people to go, this is the best game ever. Hashtag Overwatch killer. Hashtag Call of Duty is a duty. Overwatch killer. George Gomez did bring that up. He said whenever they did reach out and bring in those entities, they were embargoed for the information material. Well, embargo is a normal part of content media, though. But he said they didn't set any restrictions to, like, that media person's experience. They could have hated it. that they could, as seen with, like, a video of one of these non-pinball. I can't even call them non-pinball people. They might focus on other things because in their background, when they were giving their quick review, they had two J.J.P. machines in the background. And so I was like, well, it's not like they're non-pinball people. If they called the flippers the flappers, I think you can call them the non-pinball people. Okay, fair enough. So that was all of that. George did say he'd like to see gameplay streaming a little bit closer to launch in the future. Well, that's up to them. I mean, they have the people to do it. But I think Joel did a really good job of reframing that because I don't think that's ever good. I'm not crazy about whole streams as the first time you see a product kind of thing because so much can go wrong. Joel said, well, like for Jaws, there was a video, one game video that That's smart. I agree. But, again, we've talked about this a lot. Yes, we have. Go listen to it for information about accessories. It sounds like Jack Danger's up next with a different coder than Tanya O'Clyde because he's director of one of the Insider Connected team stuff. Dwight and Brian Eddy are going to be teaming up again. George Gomez saying get ready for more XP, baby. And Raymond Davidson very shortly is going to get his own shot at lead programmer. Go listen to Loser Kids Pinball Podcast. They cover a lot of the stuff as well. They also talk about why Lord of the Rings probably will never happen, or if it does, it's going to take a big effort to remake. George talking about them taking risk on some themes, using Iron Maiden as an example, and also kind of lumping John Wick into that as well, talking about the, quote, overabundance of designers that you were talking about, Dennis. A little tease as to maybe not seeing the end of Jurassic Park Home Pin, question mark, and George confirming they do not have the Tron license, Not to say they wouldn't remake it Because everybody's like, oh, the Tron's coming out Well, if they don't, look guys If they don't have the license, then I think it would be A while before that would come out And then Loser Kids brought up something to the effect of Deadpool and Wolverine's coming out as a film You know, have you ever thought about going back to the well Of the whole Deadpool thing And George Gomez says, well, you never know I'll just leave you with that Also go check out Gameplay videos by Stern Pinball And Joel Engelberth flipping out Pinball Other people have been doing gameplay as well. We've got on Flippin' Out Pinball some features videos, tutorial videos. Go consume it all up and bye, bye, bye. Next big topic this week. Pedretti Gaming in the news big time. Launching Funhaus remake. Dennis. Rudy is back. I can't get it, unfortunately. I made a rule for myself years ago that there wouldn't be no creepy clowns in my house. So even though I enjoy Funhouse, I was like, eh, I still got a clown on it. You guess you're not going to get yourself a hot dog. I still will say it all the time. Get yourself a hot dog. We'll have Maya. Oh, no, not this again. Oh, God, it's Suey. It's Suey. Suey trying to make a guest appearance on the LE version. Return of the Suey. Midnight. Return of the Sid Monster. Girl, I want Rudy with corn stuck in his teeth. And then you find out later that that was Suey. Oh, it was him all along, chasing grannies.
    63:21
    So Pedretti Gaming launched this Funhaus remake, a little bit different than what we were thinking, though, because this is in collaboration with the licensor Planetary Pinball Supply. Remember, PPS is like the rights holder to the Maui Williams. They work with CGC when they do remakes or work with Haggis when they did them. So in collaboration with them and also the pinball company. The pinball company is a dealer. So I think the way this worked, I should know better probably because I'm selling these games, the pinball company essentially is like what's going to be the main dealer for these things, and they opened it up to a couple additional dealers, including Flippin' Out Pinball. But they're coming out with two models of Funhaus. Those who want just, I just want the classic. I want the goods. What everybody knows as one of the greatest, most iconic pinball machines of all time. It's Funhaus. It's Rudy. He's the talking ventriloquist dummy. He can shoot balls in his mouth. He's creepy. The funhouse closes, and then things occur and all of that. It's a funhouse. Non-pinball people can identify with funhouse. There's a couple pinball machines, Dennis, and this is one that I think is so nostalgic that it has reached non-pinball people. Agreed?
    64:34
    I think it's a fair point. You know, it's tough compared to something like Addams Family, which just had so many games out there. It's not nearly at that level, but I would say it is one of the most recognizable. Twilight Zone is in there. There's a couple of them that just, yeah. It came out just before the start of, well, because Addams Family kind of shepherded in that last huge 90s pinball resurgence, and this was obviously just before the DMD era hit, so. Yeah. So they're coming out with two models, the Classic. So for those that just want the Classic, The only differences for the Classic essentially are the extended display, more like a CGC color animation display rather than alphanumeric. And you get RGB lighting, the auto launcher, which is people would love to have. So auto launcher. So you can use 1.0 without the auto launcher or the Classic's come with 1.5 that has that auto launcher feature as well. And the animation, I think. You can still pop it down to 1.0 and hear Ed Boon or the voice of original Rudy for people who want that. And then the other edition is what they're calling the Midnight Limited Edition, limited to 750 units. Pricing on these games are classic at $74.99 plus tax-of-shipping. Midnight Elyse, $9,999, right under $10,000. They're building them right now, and they plan to have all of them. Here's a big window for you. they want to have all of them built over the next nine to 16 months.
    66:07
    I pushed a little further and got the number around 12 months. They would love to have them all built within a year here, if not sooner. But they're building them right now. They're just going to trickle out over the next year or so. The big thing, the difference between the two, besides being limited, Dennis, was Brian Allen was commissioned out to do this LE artwork. and we're talking full Ellie artwork. The entire cabinet was redone. Transite redone. Playfield redone. Plastics redone. Animations redone. Everything. All redone. And I've got to say, I like Brian. I like his artwork. In the past, I'd probably hang up Brian Allen artwork more so than display it on a pinball machine. This one actually worked for me. This one and, might have been Whitewater. There's another one that kind of worked for me. But this one worked for me. Whenever he did the stuff for Funhaus 2.0 kits, some of that stuff did not work. But this still has almost a callback to the original with a lot of the compositional choices they made. And it's a lot cleaner looking to me. So I thought whenever they presented it to me, I thought, well, I'll be a classic owner because, hell, you try to build a brand-new game for $7,500. Good luck. You're like 12 grand. So I was like, I'll be a classic buyer. But then I saw this, and I'm like, no shit. I think I'm an LE buyer. This is sharp. I like the artwork here. Other things that the LE have that the standard doesn't include, the Artblade light shows like Pinball Brothers does. They've got the special armor trim, the blue. Oh, yeah, the midnight blue there, shaker motor, the glass, enhanced sound system. Oh, Rudy's got eyes now, RGB. lights behind his eyes. It's kind of cool. They've really leaned into making the Midnight Limited much creepier.
    68:06
    The whole art package is a horror show. Dennis, you also get the Funhouse engraved watch. Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock. Watches with Dennis. I thought it was like a timepiece, like a, what do you call it, with the chain? Pocket watch. I haven't seen any pictures of the watch. I don't know what it is. I'm not supposed to say that. What are the specs on it? What's its movement? I'm going to be very judgmental about it. I'm going to be pretty judgmental about it. I know you are. That's why I was interested to see what you thought about them including a timepiece with the LE. Other things to note, a lot of people were concerned, listener, that, like, well, is this going to be like Alien? Is this going to be like Queen?
    68:50
    Pinball Brothers? Like, they're confused. Is it Pinball Brothers? So this is different. But Euro Pinball Corp is kind of over umbrellas over everything. Pedretti, picture Pedretti being like the manufacturer.
    69:02
    And then Pinball Brothers contracts Pedretti to build their games. So on this, it's still Pedretti building it, but like a lot of the parts, they're standardized parts, though. A lot of the complaints from Pinball Brothers, that's like metric stuff. This is not metric. The majority of the parts here are going to be the Bally Williams parts. They're going to be sourced directly from Planesary Pinball Supply. I know the PPS is even going through a lot of the assemblies before they even send them over to Pedretti to manufacture these games. So that's a relief for a lot of people. So is Pinball Brothers and Pedretti, like, at one point I thought Pinball Brothers was buying Pedretti. Is that not what has happened? No, that's not what, yeah. I don't know who the owner-owners are, but I know that Euro Pinball Corp. is the umbrella. Okay. So they're both under the same umbrella, but they're separate subsidiaries. Exactly. Okay. That's enough. That's all I really need to know. So Pedretti's the one that makes them all, but the choices as to parts and different things, that kind of stuff comes from different entities. And this is a partnership through Planetary as well as the pinball company in a sense, too. There's a lot of names involved. We've got a pinball company. We got Planetary. We got Pedretti. Flippin' Out sells it, though. Look, we're just here to serve us. There's a lot of LEs, too. 750 is a lot. I thought so, too. But they're selling. I knew they would sell. Funhouse is popular. And then when you add some more code to it, it's one of the first mode-based kind of quasi-mode-based games. It's very popular, very iconic. You reach a lot of demographics with an original theme like this because it's more already an established theme through hobbyists. So it's selling. It is selling. I didn't know. We're getting close to selling all of our alleys. It's close. Close to sold out with us. What do you think about the game, Dennis? I mean, I enjoy playing Funhaus. Do you think it's a smart move? Do you think they sell all 750? No. Do you think that this is successful enough that all of these associated companies will be doing an additional remake in the future. It may be successful enough for that. I don't think they sell all 750 of the Midnight, though. And I wouldn't have started with this game.
    71:27
    Any other ones that you may have started? Sure. Adam's Family. Okay. Indiana Jones. Twilight Zone. Yeah. Would you have went with any John Papadukes over this? There's an argument there that I won't tell you who I had this conversation with, And I said I may have went with a J-pop theater magic kind of thing before this.
    71:51
    But, yeah, I just wondered what you thought. Yeah, I think theater would have sold better. It would have been the one. This one's pretty convenient, though, because from a coding aspect, some of this 2.0 stuff is done, you know. Are they using a lot of the stuff out of 2.0? Do we know? Some of that stuff is being used. It's being detailed a lot more. Other stuff is being added. So, yeah, they're fleshing out a lot of the stuff. Okay, well, I'm convinced that would make sense. I think that's probably some of it. I do like the fact that people buying that standard, they can actually upgrade to 2.0 if they want to. This isn't something where they're held out of being 2.0 like Haggis tried initially. Tried is an operative word, though. Has they even caved? So 2.0 game system, they can upgrade to that. You can also add things on like apron RGB lighting, I think. You can add shaker motor. You can add a topper. Now, here's the other thing with the LE. I forgot, listener. The individuals who buy this Midnight LE limited at 750 units, another selling point is later on they're going to have a topper that comes out that only LE buyers can use.
    73:06
    How about that? So you can have a topper that's similar to the one they have now for your classic. You can buy that as an accessory. But only the LE buyers will be able to order the LE topper accessory. Well, we're kind of past the year of the topper, so not the biggest deal.
    73:25
    I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one of these. I know that Pinball Traders, a good dealership that's selling these, took production samples to Golden State Pinball Convention this last weekend. And that's why sometimes a lot of chefs in the kitchen here because I don't know if it was a – taking it there is fine. But you've got to know that if you take a game out to the public prior to having official video launch stuff, that the first impression of any kind of moving product you have, machine, is going to be through not only Amcan. What's taters, precious?
    74:05
    You're going to get that. But also, if you agree upon, I think, Dry, who's a pretty well-known streamer in pinball, streams for Stern, Marco, kind of things, he got his hands on one. And if you allow him to stream on one, just know that that's going to be the first impression. That's all I'm saying, that that's going to be the first impression. I think within 30 seconds, Dry was already speaking negatively about the game. He hadn't got through it yet. So they should have had him sign that agreement where it could only say nice things. Well, no, I mean, people have relationships, you know, just that maybe I'm looking too far. I'm just saying that sounds a little twatty to me. I like gameplay videos presented to people. Yes. And I agree that a pre-recorded curated stream to show off things and not dealing with live stream shenanigans is always the best way to initially portray a product. They have that choice. However, I've been in this hobby, Zach, for over 12 years now, and they just don't do it. They just don't. It's been 12 years.
    75:17
    I do think that the pinball company is working on some content for this. So hopefully we'll have some Travis Meary stuff here soon. Or maybe even a flipping out stream or promo video stuff. Who knows? You want to talk about Barrels of Fun? They had a tour They opened up their live streaming To take people around the factory Show them production A little bit on Labyrinth That was very welcomed This company continues to do things right Because this was another good PR move People love the transparency here And a lot of Positive feedback based on this Live streaming video So nicely done, Barrels of Fun It was David Van Ness, CEO and Brian Savage, CBO, that walked people around, answered some questions.
    76:06
    Details-wise and numbers-wise, I got this information from NAP Arcade, indicates that they manufacture games over at Barrels of Fun Pinball three days a week, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursdays. Their maximum production per day right now is about six games, and they've built and shipped 222 Labyrinth games to date, which was last week, and they just crossed 750 units sold, so they're on track to being done with production if they sell their limited 1,100 units by the end of 2024, and they continue to add code and rules, and they've got plans to continue that for time to come. And people are really liking the code on that game, but that's like the group of Rick and Morty, so it didn't surprise me. How do you feel about the transparency here? Is this stuff interesting to you? Do you think it's a good move? Do you think this is a moot point? Are you surprised by numbers? positive or negative, where are you at? Yeah, no, I'm not really surprised. I'm okay with the transparency. I think there's a lot of marketing potential, you know, goodwill, so to speak, that you can win with it. You've just got to be very, very careful that if things shift and you become non-transparent, it will look a lot worse than if you just never were transparent in the first place. You've got to look at the haggis scenario. Haggis gets, I mean, there are a lot of good reasons one could criticize what's going on with Haggis, obviously, but the fact that they were so transparent and then weren't called extra attention to the fact when they were all of a sudden not sharing information and then it starts looking real cagey. So I wasn't surprised by any of the numbers or anything like that. So in terms of everything that sort of came out with this, I think it fits with kind of where I was assuming they'd be as a new manufacturer.
    77:50
    I love that they got 250 games built. Nicely done. Yeah, yeah. No, I think it's a reasonable pace, given how new they are. A little slow. Yes, but again, given that they're a basically brand-new company, I'm not surprised at the count. It's definitely better. Like, I'd be concerned if it had been 22 instead of, like, 222.
    78:10
    As an aside, I just wanted to say a quick congratulations to you, because when I searched Funhaus Pinball Remake in Google, the first thing that pops up on websites is Pedretti, and the next is Flippin' Out. So you're doing quite well on your SEO. Oh! Well, terrific. Did you... Go ahead. There's like a purchase button. You can just... I told you, no creepy clowns in this house. But what if they come out with my dream theme horror film based around Stephen King's It?
    78:38
    Well, it's really the toy. I don't know if I could get past the Brian Allen art here. He made Rudy Creepy all throughout, so that one might have been a no-go even with it. I don't know. I've never seen It. What? And I never got through. I only got about halfway through the book, and I got annoyed and quit reading it. I get that, but man, please. And what about me I a Tim Curry fan too You know I might make an exception for Killer Clowns from Outer Space because I have a soft spot in it It just Rudy My problem is with Rudy It not those inherent clowns What about Annabelle? I have not seen that either. Okay. I didn't know if you were creeped out by it. No, Rudy. It seems like it's more of a dull thing. I don't know. It's just the way his mouth had to work to eat the ball. I could probably tolerate it, but since I said it in the past, I don't want to change my mind and show weakness, so I must remain strong. You understand. Eyes like a porcelain doll.
    79:33
    What, are you trying to do Jaws? That was his name. Shark's got dead eyes. A doll's eye. I think I want an It-based pinball machine. Well, maybe Spooky will do one. Spooky. It's a popular franchise at this point. You would think it would be an obvious one to do. They're going to do the mini, or they're doing a series now based on it. I think it's an HBO series, Welcome to Dairy. I was going to say, what are they going to call it? It is?
    80:03
    Or maybe it's? Apostrophe? Yes. Will we use the apostrophe? I guess it depends if we're saying it is or not. Anyway.
    80:11
    All right, so good job, Barrels. American Pinball. Good job, American Pinball. They're having a Memorial Day sale now to May 31st. $500 off any game they sell besides Barbecue Challenge. Aw. You almost had a sale. Aw. I do have some in stock. So if anybody wants to save $500 on GTF. Ellie's, or I think I've got a Hot Wheels Classic.
    80:35
    What else do I have? Oh, Houdini Deluxe. I've got a couple of those. Save, save, save. Jersey Jack Pinball. Hey, Dan, a new podcast. I heard it just a couple days ago. Yes, man. It's so good to hear Ken Crum. He's very talented. He was very lucky. I would have normally unsubbed from a podcast by now. It's been over a year. I just happened to be dead at that point. I'm into that, yeah. And I still happen to have it in my feed. Hashtag no regrets for you.
    81:03
    I've sacrificed many on the altar of efficiency. So welcome back. Ken Cromwell did another episode with company founder Jack Winary, programmer Bill Grupp, designer Steve Ritchie. Very refreshing episode, as Ken's work always is. So go listen to that. Bill had some good stories. I liked that part the best. Yeah, it was really, really cool. and Steve Ritchie just cracks me up. God, he is something, that guy. But then again, arguably maybe the best game that they've had. That's what a lot of people are saying. Too bad no one can afford it.
    81:41
    Let's see what else. Oh, Guns N' Roses, version 3.0. They got guns all over their roses. I was waiting. I was waiting because of the timing of their release. I was waiting for something cheeky. Oh, so you're looking for guns. Yeah, that's what I was waiting for. Our plants are armed with guns in this game. Speaking of guns, Pinball Brothers. They sell, they got a lot of guns on their Alien game. Yeah, the one game people buy from them, so they have to keep doing new versions. I can't wait until we get the Bishop edition. Look, Abba is shipping in June.
    82:15
    Mama mia. So they're shipping in June. All the call-outs are Bishop. He's just saying robot stuff. Good morning, mother. Alien toppers are slowly shipping.
    82:26
    Slowly. Why do all these manufacturers have such a hard time with toppers? Hashtag Lior. Lior is making those toppers, and they've had a lot of conflict over where he lives right now with wars and stuff. So it's been a damn mess. But they're starting to slowly trickle out. Those of you who have ordered from me, I'll answer the e-mails, but they haven't given us an update. I've asked a couple times. Soon. We know summer coming soon. You know what else is coming soon?
    82:58
    That new Furiosa movie. Are you looking forward to that? I think I'm going to see that in theaters. I'll probably see that. Coming soon is the listener right here who is yet to subscribe to the Pinball Show Club membership. They're going to go to patreon.com slash thepinballshow right now to help support this show and our efforts to bring them the weaving of gold. What they can get right now if they go and sign up to the pinball show, to patreon.com slash the pinball show, is they can sign up at the $10 membership, Dennis, and that will get them not only private Discord discussions with all the TPS fam, but it's going to get them exclusive content that they can hear, including this week. We're going to talk about, you know, moving the collection around a little bit, changing things up. What's Dennis looking forward to? What's on the chopping block for Dennis? You know, recently, I've had some games leave my collection Uh-oh Games that have been there for years Which ones left? Why did they leave? What's coming in? You'll hear that all exclusively as a member of the Pinball Show In addition to that, we also have a segment we like to call What I Love, What I Don't with X This is going to be John Wick with DPX PX, PX, PX. John Wick Pinball. What I love, what I don't about John Wick Pinball. I got my hands on one. I've played one. I'll tell you what's great, and I'll tell you what's not so great so that you will know and be informed and will already have your decision made up on whether you like it based on this pin fluency. That's true. So go sign up right now, either the $10 official club membership level or the $25 club level. Speaking of the $25 Nordman Club level members, we're going to have our happy hour hangout this Wednesday. Wednesday, 8 p.m. The 22nd. Yeah, the 22nd. 8 p.m. Or if you're doing the $10 club upgrade to the 25 and come join and hang out with us. You'll see the link. Every month. Right. Maybe when you're in at that level, you should see it immediately on the Patreon itself. Got the post up and everything with the link to the chat. Absolutely. The $100 Screaming Goat Club members, they got the goods. They get the private conversations between me, you, Dennis, and them privately. They get the paywall polo, which they've received. They get to come on the show in the future. They get carte blanche. Some of them utilize it quite well, too. We'll get messages, hey, Dennis and Zach, what are you hearing about this? And we reply Oh Straight juice And speaking of club members We've got to thank specific ones right now Dennis Our Screaming Goat Club members You heard it We gotta thank you Rodney Thanks for being our little bobcat No needs for guns Because you will attack a wife if you need to Thank you again Jablonski Love and appreciate your support That's right Bumblebee will protect himself The stains Right in your neck Thank you Rob See none of these Entities need guns They've got their own built in protection You gonna fuck with a panther Dennis I think not Panther seems like something that could probably Take a bullet and keep coming Depends on the bullet but Thank you Frank we appreciate your support as well as you swoop out of the sky and peck her eyeballs out. How are you going to shoot a gun when you can't see? Oh, wait. Have you seen John Wick 4?
    86:46
    This is the one issue. I love the whole, look, listener, I love the whole thing. He's blind, but that's how, you know, it's fucking G, man. He's in the zone. Like, I think it's cute. I think it's kind of awesome.
    86:59
    However, at the end of the day, he's still blind. Like, John, just pick up the fucking gun and shoot him. Like, come on. Can't dodge bullets, is it, in the Matrix? All right. Thank you, Falcon.
    87:11
    Dave, speaking of... Shake your motor. Okay, maybe he needs to pack. I don't know what you're going to do to the shaker motor. Throw it at them? Red Tremor wouldn't have a problem taking them out. As well as their cabinet. Yeah.
    87:29
    Price must be paid. Holy shit. Thank you, Joe. We appreciate your foxiness. I think maybe a fox. Rabies. Maybe. Rabies. Maybe. A few weeks, a few short weeks later, they're gone. That's right. Just wait. Charlie, thank you so much. We appreciate your continued support and your love. You're the bell. So, frankly, you don't need to be protected, do you? Who fucks up a bell? Well, the Joker in the original Batman movie did, trying to take out the bell that Michael Keaton used to knock a bad guy off or something. I thought that was Venom. Oh, there was a bell in that, too. Or the chime thing in the Spider-Man 3. Yeah, there was a sound like that that heard his little symbiote-y head. So see, that's a weapon in and of itself, the bell. The big dong.
    88:22
    Were you in Virginia? Is that where you're at? You're in Virginia. Yes, in Virginia. Oh, man. Sounds like a blues song. The dude, William. Thank you. The dude didn't have a gun. He had a rug. Yeah, it really tied the room together, too. Well, just because we're bereaved doesn't make us sad. Sir, please lower your voices. Man, don't you have, you know, something else we can put him in, you know? That is our most modestly priced receptacle. God damn it! Thank you for the support, William. People missed it last week, Dennis. Why didn't you do it last week? You know what? Eh, there was just so much to cover. You could skip this week. We've covered a lot. You can't skip what some people call the heart of an entire industry. And look, I didn't say that. That's just like what I read in the headlines. Like when I go to Pinball News or we go to Nap Arcade, that's just how they describe. I'm at the Pinball News website right now, and I don't see it. Scroll down. I did. Now I'm just reading about Abbott's launch party.
    89:27
    I don't give it the monikers. I simply am a conduit. within it. I'm the host of it. In and of itself, I'm petty. I'm small. I am but a bug to be squashed by the grandness and the genius that simply is. Like a worm? Like a worm.
    89:46
    It's Pinball Market Trends. Pinball Market Trends! I like your style, dude. That's right, ladies and gentlemen. Pinball Market Trends. I'm going to give you the ups. I'm going to give you the downs. But I'm going to keep it real because numbers don't lie. And neither do I. Training up this week is none other than the Elwins. They're keeping a lot of us dealers in business.
    90:11
    Training up is Jaws, Godzilla, Jurassic Park. Thanks, Keith. Holy moly. Now, the reason I'm being a bit cynical, but the truth of the matter is that anytime a new game comes out, we always see a boost in games like Jurassic Park, Godzilla, and Jaws. It never fails. I'm just glad there's a new title in Jaws That has joined that lineup Deadpool's on the fringe for us sales wise That it kind of does that too People want to wait You almost see like a lull right before a big release by Stern Pinball Or even George Jackson People are like, well I was going to buy Deadpool I was going to buy Jurassic Park But let me make sure that the new game isn't just tits Is that a phrase? Is that an appropriate? I mean it's a phrase I don't know if it's an appropriate one I would lean towards no oh sorry listener it is not the tips it is the it's the Virginia's out there I don't know but once it gets announced somebody's like oh okay gentlemen looks cool but I was going to buy a Deadpool I still think I'm going to buy a Deadpool so they end up playing through well Deadpool does have a Katana ramp I wonder if there will be a mod for that to change it to like to an M-16 or something.
    91:31
    People are already making decals. Now they know that Deadpool was deliberately given blasters because of licensing requirements. No, wait, it was all part of the conspiracy. I love that, like, we're getting the decals, the cover-up decals. Like, remember Mandalorian where we got, what's her name? Kara or Tara or whatever. But, yeah, we're getting those as well. Bring it all, whatever floats your boat, people. Also turning up this week is, just objectively, it's the Labyrinth. Not only does that company continue to check the right boxes in the public's eye, but on the Pennside Top 100 list, it jumped in there. It's got enough reviews now, falling at number three. Congratulations. Oh, my God. Why do you even cite such a number? Three. You know what? I think it holds. I'm going to make a bold prediction. I think the Labyrinth holds within the top ten for the remainder of the year. That's a pretty significant prediction, if I might say so. I mean, that is pretty significant. I will agree. Okay. We'll see if that happens. It will. But, yeah, I've got to trend up Labyrinth because that's falling into the non-stern what people end up signing up for whenever a new release happens. So that's helping as well. Also trending up this week, I've got to give it to him. It's my homie Gomi. I've got to trend up George Gomez. You don't have to. The numbers don't lie, neither did he. He didn't. He gave straight juice to people. So did Joel. I'll trend up Joel, too. Joel! It practically works for you. He is so good. He's so awesome. I'll shuck you when it comes to interviews. The guy's got it down. The shuck-siness, don't you find them a little aw-y?
    93:13
    No, I think it's endearing. You're hoity. I'm toity. He's shucksy. we've all got a real what's Gomez then homie oh that's right I didn't do that homie duh it sounds like a really bad law firm you know what I think we know what our next shirt will be the title of this episode as well wow Please, please, I'm seeing Gomi. Okay, yeah, I've got to turn him up. George Gomez.
    93:55
    Why am I so captivated by his conversations that he has? I'm hook, line, and sinker every time he's on a show. It's the same reason why you like Dwight Sullivan so much. You can hear their enthusiasm for pinball in everything that they say. Yeah, and regardless of, you know, I'll go on Pinsider on Facebook and be like, oh, he's on the damage control tour and all that. Like, and you know what? Yeah, why wouldn't he be on different podcasts to inform people with facts if they are not perceiving or interpreting the launch of a product to be fact-based? Yes, I would do the same thing. The only difference is, like, Joel reached out to him, you know. Loser Kid reached out to him. so it works better on a damage tour if there's the other way around but nonetheless every time I hear George Gomez it's just I read through a lot of bullshit and I'm sure George Gomez like any other human I've met is probably bullshit in a lot of ways but I get his genuine love for not only pinball but for design and I could consume that for forever so training up is always going to be George Gomez whenever he appears on shows. I can't say the same, though, for things that are training down. Dennis, in training down this week are all of those original Funhaus machines. Oh, no. What about the 2.0 kits? Do you not smell the coil dust from the 30-year-old parts? Oh, I always smelled those. Geez. Oh, those switch terminals. Oh, the humanity. Corrosion. Yeah, so what happens when a game is remade like Funhaus is the value of the original has now dropped.
    95:48
    Again, I'm just reporting the facts, people. Like it or don't like it, it is what it is. So if you had an original Funhaus, especially a restored one, oh, you lost a little money. That's okay, though. You probably restored a Funhaus because you really enjoy that game. So love it up. There's nothing wrong with that. What possible purpose is value if you're never going to get rid of a game, right? Well, I mean... Nonetheless.
    96:15
    Yeah. Still makes people feel sad. It still kind of, yeah, it does. So yeah, with that remake, that's what happens to the originals. They drop in value. Also trending down this week, same goes, Metallica's. The Metallica's have held value for so long. But when people are sniffing...
    96:36
    Another iteration of Metallica in the looming distance. That's what's going to happen to the value of those games until we see what they're cooking. Maybe they're cooking up just a vault and no changes, in which case we'll drop the value of originals to a smaller degree. But if they add something to a Metallica and it's better,
    97:03
    you're going to see a hit. If they reimagine Metallica Maybe it's a whole new game If the rumors are correct About a Metallica making another appearance Then maybe it doesn't affect as much But When we're in this purgatory of not knowing The values are dropping That's just the way the game goes Also trending down this week Is the seasonal onslaught of negativity And impaired social communication And just general decency People are so fucking mad and angry I don't get it Here's my thing If you're in pinball as a hobby And you can't find joy in it Get the fuck out of here What are you here for? Don't flex stamps Go somewhere else Why must you Sit and spew Your bullshit to people That are trying to find an escape From their everyday work routine Or family conflict bullshit or anything that us humans have to deal with. A hobby, by definition, I think, is supposed to include things like enjoyment, purpose, happiness.
    98:14
    Some people like to be miserable. Yes, amen. Fuck. All I'm asking is for you to look in the mirror, people, and if you are so unhappy about this hobby, find a different hobby. Hell, I will help you find one. I've done a lot of hobbies. There's a lot of good ones out there. maybe pinball's not for you is all I'm saying and if you look around and this is the first time you've really noticed really there's negativity it's probably you check yourself at the door sigh there's no deals of the week because people shit on him on the fly there's always people whether it's arrows or bullets from a sold off shotgun we don't judge here on pinball market trends we're just here to report the facts because numbers don't lie neither do I on the heart and pulse of this industry pinball market trends alright Dennis where can people catch you? they can always reach out click to gamerspodcast.gmail.com you can reach out to the pinball show at gmail.com as well follow like and subscribe we're doing the Facebooks for the pinball show too and Instagram I don't know if you've seen this but recently I put some little teasers from our Patreon episodes. I put some teasers on the Instagram. So if people could go follow that, we'll get a little following. We'll add some more stuff over there as well. And sign up. Patreon.com slash The Pinball Show. Help support us. Get more Zach and Dennis. And everybody's happy, except for the people who are not. You know there's people that sign up to that and they're still angry? Shit!
    99:56
    Well, maybe they want more Greg. You probably didn't listen to the extra episode, did you? I haven't heard that one yet with Greg.
    100:04
    Because I was traveling in Virginia. Too busy in Virginia. Poor Virginia. I want to get that checked out.
    100:16
    Alright, the sponsor of this show is none other than my silly ass company, Flippin' Out Pinball. You can go listen to Jason at the pinball party. He had one hell of a podcast this last week, too. He gave me the feels. I really liked it. He was like, Jason's transparent to a fault. He didn't give a shit. And that's what I love about him, even if I don't agree with him. I still respect that. But speaking of flipping out pinball, people, look, if you want to start threads that dealers are in panic mode and all this, you don't watch out. I'm going to lean into it, and I'm going to start pulling at the heartstrings.
    101:15
    You know, we're struggling over here flipping out. Dennis, the doors are about to be closed. People, you've got to buy from us. Feed the children.
    101:24
    Buy, buy, buy! See? See what they're going to do? They're going to get that. No, I wouldn't do that. Product showcase this week for Flippin' Out Pinball. Should you decide to buy one or not? It's a Funhaus remake. It's got to be. I'd go with the LE. Only a couple spots left. Bye, bye, bye. FOMO, motherfuckers.
    101:39
    John Wick Pro Premium LE spots. I've only got one LE. No. You can make your mind up. I've got a handful of LE John Wick spots. Premium first run. I've got a handful of those spots for the upcoming June run as well. Next turn, Cornerstone, if you went on the interested list, let us know. Give us the title that you're dreaming and clamoring for. We'll put you on the list for it. Jaws Pro and Premium in stock. Godzilla Pro in stock. Foo Fighters Pro and Premium in stock. Get yourself a topper for that, Foo Fighters 2. Stranger Things Pro and Premium. We've been selling Stranger Things lately. Hot little title. Venom Pro, Premium, and Ellie. Just talked to an owner yesterday at Venom. He still says, hey, for all the haters out there, they just need more time on it because they wrong. It was a damn great game. Jurassic Park Pro and Premium, Star Wars. Did you hear George Gomez say Venom was the most played game at home based on Insider Connect? That's interesting. Did he say at home or just in general? I thought he was talking arcades, actually. Well, I knew it was on location, too. And, yes, I did. I heard about that. And I think the main thing, though, is because of the progression, people are going to log in for Venom more so than any other game. If you don't care about achievements, you don't care about and it's interconnected most of the time. Yeah, makes sense. So I think that because of that, though, the play count's inflated. I'm sure it's true that it's the highest and it's interconnected, but I don't think it's fair to extrapolate that to its success. I agree. Still an interesting data point. Very interesting. But all the other Stern stuff, y'all, Deadpools, Avengers, Iron Maidens, Turtles, we got it. Come and get it. Labyrinth, still taking pre-orders for that. Elton John, Platinum, and Collectors, we do have in stock right now. Toy Story 4 LE and CE in stock. Guns and Roses. I think I've got one of those left. Pulp Fiction, get your order in for that, as well as Looney Tunes, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I still have an Ultraman. Please, somebody buy the damn thing. I think I've got two. ABBA? Gimme, gimme, gimme. Queen? Please, please, please.
    103:40
    Deluxe and King Force LA. $500 off. Maybe $1,000 off. Houdini. Deluxe. Big Buck Hunter. Ooh, Raw Thrills. Got that new basketball game about to come out this week. Someone send me a link to that. Boom, shakalaka. Yes. It's coming. It's going to be expensive. I dare not ask. It's going to be awesome, though. It'll probably be expensive. Tell me when $500 is off. Toppers, shaker motors, insider connect kits. We did just get at Flippin' Out Pinball a restock of the headphone adapter kits that people love so much for Stern. So get that ordered today. Flippin' Out with Friends. Check them out. Joel streamed John Wick last week. I think it's going to be John Wick this week. Maybe some stranger things in the near future As well as Funhaus, ABBA We've got it all coming So follow, like, and subscribe It's not only FlippinOutPimble.com But also Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok And YouTube Alright, Dennis, teach these people something Zach, I don't understand it, Zach Everyone's talking about John Wick And the lack of guns on the playfield And they should be talking about the lack of plastic ramps on those planes. All these ramps are metal. I see three ramps and zero plastic. How can you have true speed without plastic ramps? And always practice safe pinball. And if you find yourself in legal issues, I don't know, maybe gun related, remember to call Hoyt 2016. Go. Look, Zach, people can either consume the entertainment or they can avoid the entertainment. You will sell them a seat, but they'll only need the edge.