Episode 312: Krystle Gemnich

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·31m 54s·analyzed·Aug 12, 2021

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.031

TL;DR

Krystle Gemnich discusses her pinball career and Marco Specialties' role in the restoration community.

Summary

Jeff Teolis interviews Krystle Gemnich, a Canadian pinball industry veteran who has worked at Logan Arcade in Chicago and now holds an important behind-the-scenes role at Marco Specialties in South Carolina. The conversation covers her career path, pinball restoration expertise, rubber and playfield maintenance best practices, Marco's staff and community initiatives, and the growing pinball scene in Columbia, South Carolina.

Key Claims

White rubbers are springier with lower durometer and leave less residue on playfields, while black rubbers are tougher but leave more residue
high confidence · Krystle explains durometer differences between rubber types and their tradeoffs for playfield maintenance
Super bands (polyurethane blend rubbers) have the highest durometer, making them toughest but longest-lasting, though harder to install
high confidence · Direct explanation of rubber durometer scale and comparative durability
Old pinballs should be replaced during restoration because they become pocked and rusted, which damages playfields
high confidence · Krystle describes common restoration oversights customers encounter
Licensing restrictions make it difficult or impossible to obtain Gottlieb parts and artwork for restoration
high confidence · Krystle discusses supplier challenges customers face with vintage machine restoration
The female pinball player scene in Columbia, South Carolina has grown exponentially in recent months
high confidence · Krystle notes Bang Back Pinball Lounge has attracted many young female players to the area
Marco Specialties has developed DIY gate kits that allow customization for different pinball machines
high confidence · Jeff describes using a Marco one-way gate kit for Medusa restoration
3D printing is being used more for pinball parts reproduction, particularly drop targets, but material durability concerns limit application
medium confidence · Krystle discusses evolving 3D printing capabilities but notes durability requirements for parts subject to ball impact

Notable Quotes

“I think about that a lot, like where I came from and where I've been and the fact that I just started out working as a junior tech at an arcade.”
Krystle Gemnich @ ~5:00 — Reflects on her journey from arcade technician to senior industry figure at Marco Specialties
“The Venn diagram of people who collect pinball machines and people who either work in the automotive industry or are collectors or restorers, I mean, they're practically overlapping.”
Krystle Gemnich @ ~12:00 — Observes the strong correlation between automotive and pinball enthusiasts based on customer interactions
“It's hard to believe how naive people can be when they approach pinball repair and they just think, well, I could just put this part or that part in here and it'll work.”
Krystle Gemnich @ ~15:00 — Highlights common misconceptions among new pinball restorers about technical requirements
“She didn't come to bed until 4 o'clock in the morning because she was helping the guys downstairs set up pinball machines.”
Jeff Teolis @ ~35:00 — Describes Emoto's exceptional work ethic and dedication to pinball community events
“The black rubbers have got a little bit of a higher durometer, which means that they're just a little bit tougher. The white rubbers are a little bit springier.”
Krystle Gemnich @ ~42:00 — Technical explanation of rubber material properties relevant to pinball maintenance
“I use lighter fluid to clean it off. Oh, that's not good. You just did a big gasp.”
Jeff Teolis / Krystle Gemnich @ ~50:00 — Humorous exchange highlighting improper flipper rubber cleaning practices
“The scene in Columbia, as far as female pinball players, has grown exponentially.”
Krystle Gemnich @ ~58:00 — Documents observable growth in female participation in pinball tournaments and venues in South Carolina
“We're really trying to grow the community. And we're also trying to make sure that each venue sort of supports the other.”

Entities

Krystle GemnichpersonJeff Teolisperson Marco Specialtiescompany Logan ArcadecompanyBang Back Pinball LoungecompanyEmotoperson Bells and Chimescompany

Signals

?
business_signal: Marco Specialties' event presence remains cautious and selective in post-pandemic period, with commitment to support local community infrastructure
medium · Krystle states 'too soon to tell 100%' about broader show schedule but confirms selective attendance at Milwaukee Gaming Knights and Southern Fry Gaming Expo
?
community_signal: Columbia, South Carolina pinball community experiencing rapid expansion with multiple new venues and exponential growth in female player participation
high · Krystle reports Bang Back Pinball Lounge attracting many young women, female player scene 'grown exponentially,' multiple venues now supporting coordinated tournaments
?
community_signal: Marco Specialties actively supports pinball community growth through event attendance, Twitch content (Marco Pinball Tech Talk), and staff participation in local tournaments and venue promotion
high · Krystle discusses Marco's appearance at Milwaukee Gaming Knights, Southern Fry Gaming Expo, and ongoing support for Bang Back Pinball Lounge and Columbia tournament scene
?
personnel_signal: Marco Specialties has hired and retained staff who were new to pinball but became passionate about the hobby through workplace immersion
high · Kelly came from housing management background, attended first tournament, became obsessed with pinball; Kyle relocated from California; Kim relocated from Ohio
~
sentiment_shift: Pandemic period drove increased home pinball machine interest despite venue closures, with passion for the hobby growing rather than waning

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.096

0:00

it's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teals you can find everything on pinballprofile.com past episodes subscriptions and more you can find us on facebook we're also on instagram at pinball profile and email us pinballprofile at gmail.com today's kind of a special day in canada because we're getting out of this pandemic sorry to say the p word but we We are kind of getting out of that because today our American friends that are fully vaxxed are now allowed to drive across the border for non-essential travel, which is great. Come to our country. And I think of friends that are in the States that might actually be Canadian that would love to come back. And that is our next guest. You know her from Marker of Specialties. You know her from The Plum and Riptide before that. Crystal Gamnick joins us. Hi, Crystal. How are you? Hello. I'm doing well. How are you, Jeff? Come back home, sister. Come on. Oh, I would love to. The doors are open. And I think you like to vacation here once in a while, don't you? Yeah, yeah. I got family up there, up in Georgian Bay, which is beautiful cottage country. And I mean, I grew up there, so it's kind of, you know, home to me in a way. And it's been a while since I've been up there. I haven't seen any of my family members at all or friends in Toronto either. See, now that would suck for most people. My family loves it. You know, they're rooting this pandemic on, you know. Jeff, take your time. Grow your stupid hair, you know. we'll see you when we see you. I'm glad that we're getting a little bit better as far as being able to open these borders. So who knows? Might see you soon. I hope so. How does a girl from the Great White North originally go to Chicago, do so much with Logan, then wind up going to the great Marco Specialties in South Carolina and just be such an important, really behind the scenes person at such a wonderful company? Oh, gosh. I don't know. I think about that a lot, like where I came from and where I've been and the fact that I just started out working as a junior tech at an arcade. And I don't know. Maybe it's my stunning personality. I'll go for that. Yeah. But it's great. It's been a great experience. And, I mean, the fact that I get to learn something every single day when I'm at work makes it all worthwhile, all worth the trip, you know. Was it hard for a Canadian to get that working opportunity in the States? And you've been there for such a long time. Well, so I actually moved to, my parents and I, rather, we moved to just outside Detroit when I was about 13 because my dad got a job transfer. So that's what actually brought us to the States. So it was your father that was working there first. But for a lot of Canadians, it's difficult to get that work opportunity in the States. I'll give you an example. I go do baseball games in the States. And crossing the border, where are you going? Let's say I'm going to Comerica Park, Tigers game. I am just doing my radio bits for covering baseball. And they're like, are you taking the job away from an American? And I'm like, no, no, I'm a Canadian. You have to let them know you're being paid by a Canadian company. So it's difficult for Canadians to do what your father and you have done. Yeah, yeah. You know, I didn't even know that, Jeff. I had no idea. I was not aware. I know that when we moved down here, the company that he worked for, which was Volkswagen, they took care of us. They got us the visas. They helped us find the house. And it was kind of, as far as I understand it, I mean, I was very young, but it was pretty smooth. And it was 1996, I think. So I'm not sure if that whole mentality that you're referencing was the same back then. Or they just hate gingers. Let's just call it for what it is. That's what it is. Let's call it for what it is. Okay, I didn't know that about your father working for VW, because I've seen some incredible pictures on your Facebook where you've got some great nostalgia, some wonderful vintage cars. I'm sure I've probably seen a VW bus once or twice, but is that kind of where it comes from? Yeah, it absolutely is. I kind of grew up on a racetrack. My dad raced cars as well as working for Volkswagen. We were always going to car shows and the auto show up there in Toronto. I don't know, maybe it's in my blood, but I've always appreciated, at the very least, the way that cars look, especially vintage cars. So it's kind of become a little bit more resurfaced when I moved down to the south because I started seeing a lot more vintage and restored vehicles down here. It doesn't really happen very much in Chicago. So I never really got to have that, you know, that photo experience of seeing all these special cars everywhere. So down here, it's been a lot more prevalent. And I love it. I love that it's kind of re-sparked in me. And every once in a while, I get to go to the track up in upstate somewhere and watch a race. And it's wonderful. That might be a tie-in that I never made before. And now that I know this, what I know about people who are into cars and whether it's vintage cars like yourself and your family, these type of people, and I'm not trying to generalize, this is a compliment, are usually quite handy people. Because the older the cars, there's probably a little more tinkering, fixing, cleaning up, all that kind of good stuff. That really relates a lot to pinball, whether it's a new machine or an old machine, but you really have to get your hands in there, get under the hood, so to speak. Jeff, the Venn diagram of people who collect pinball machines and people who either work in the automotive industry or are collectors or restorers, I mean, they're practically overlapping. shopping because I talk to customers on the phone every day and oftentimes the, you know, the conversation kind of starts to garden path a little bit and go here, there and the other place. And we get a lot of lonely hearts who like to chat with us. We love them. They're great. But you know, we'll be talking about pinball and then he'll say, you know, oh, I have this garage and I've got this, you know, old Harley in it, or I've got this old Corvette. And then it's like, oh yeah, of course you're a car collector, you're a car restorer, you work on pinball machines and you have the money, right? Yeah. It's so great to see. And I love that. I love that about both of the hobbies and the fact that I love both of those hobbies and that there are also other pinball people who are into cars like that and motorcycles. One thing I've noticed, whether it's here on Pinball Profile or just talking to people at competitions, at shows, and you've talked to so many too. You've probably talked to as many, if not more than I have because of Marco's specialties, because of Logan, just how long you've been in the pinball community. Sure. The more people get into the hobby, the more fascinated and the more appreciation there is to the older games. Certainly the new bells and whistles of all the new games, there's no denying how gorgeous they are. The artwork, everything about them, the themes. But then you start to find some of these classics. It really opens a lot of people's eyes, I find. It does. It's hard to believe how naive people can be when they approach pinball repair and they just think, well, I could just put this part or that part in here and it'll work. And I mean, sometimes that is the case. If you have a machine on location, you're going to hack it a little bit just so that the machine will work. But as far as restoration is concerned, you'll encounter a lot of people who are like, well, I didn't know that it's impossible to get Gottlieb parts or Gottlieb art because the licensing restrictions are so difficult. or they'll be surprised that, you know, I don't know the size of a screw that's going to fit your 1977 Williams, right?

7:25

That's funny that you should say that because I think the last time you and I saw each other, and correct me if I'm wrong, it was in Houston. It was at the, I'm going to say the name wrong, but it was the Space Open, Space City Open? Houston Arcade Expo. I brought you a part for your Medusa. That's it. And this is a big plug for Marco Specialties because I bought this used Medusa, and it was in great condition. The only thing that the seller was telling me was there's two pop bumpers that are kind of cracked And so I looked online and I saw repros or I don know what they are Who knows They perfect You can tell them apart You brought me that And also a gate too because if you know the game Medusa at the top there a one gate And there just wasn't one on this game. So how do you get a one-way gate and the bracket and all that? Well, Marco sells these do-it-yourself gates. And it's an actual kit. And they give you the actual gate wire. And you can bend it in any shape you want because of the way this kit works. And it works for, I assume, multiple games. It just made me happy. And here's a game that, you know, if somebody didn't have Marco's Specialties, it would just deteriorate over and over the years. And to be able to restore it and put these beautiful pop bumpers on and clean up the gate and everything else, I mean, just take a look at Marco's Specialties' website. You'll see. Pick a game. You'll find something for it. And a lot of times, too, whether it's people on the phone with yourself or whomever at Marco, if you don't have it, you guys really go out of your way to try to find it. We do try within the best of our abilities. There's, like I mentioned, some issues with certain parts and finding people who can remake the part, people who can make the metal, people who can do this, that, or the other thing. The supply chain is a very challenging thing for our product managers because sometimes there are things we just can't do because we either don't have a sample part to base it off of or we are restricted to what we can buy because of licensing. I mean, I don't know. I'm not in that end of the company yet, but I do know that it's a hard thing to source a lot of that stuff. But like you said, we try within our ability to find something and help out as much as we can. You were laying a message that I saw when I was watching Marco TV, and you can catch that. I forget which day of the week it is. Forgive me. It's like a Wednesday or Thursday with Emoto. And it's great. It's Tech Talk on Twitch during the middle of the day when I'm supposed to be working. no one's listening at my work, so it's fine. But for somebody like me who really is a novice when it comes to fixing things, I learn a lot. And I heard those exact words where you said we need an example part to maybe reproduce that. So if that's available, then maybe there's some reproduction. So that's interesting that you said that. I wonder what the most requested part is that is difficult to find. I have a guess, but is there one that comes to mind for you? oh i not one in particular um i know that there's as i mentioned it before there's there's a lot of got lead parts for older games that are a little bit harder to to find or make but gosh off the top of my head no i can't we just get so many different requests every show i go to i always look for this part and if i see them i'll buy them all old stern machine spinners okay yep i think I've heard somebody say that before. Not actually, surprisingly, not at work. It's never been a work thing. I think it was a conversation I had with a friend in Chicago who had a few old sterns. I just thought of one. Okay. The eyelids for Rudy. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of, I think some of the mechanisms for that part. And then also, I think the clock mechanism for Twilight Zone. Those are the two. I think those are the two that I get from customers a lot. They'll be like, oh, it says it's out of stock on the website. Are you ever going to get it back? And we're just like, we're trying. So something like that. Let's say it's the eyelids for Rudy on Funhaus. It's plastic, correct? Yeah. Can that not be reproduced with a 3D printer? But again, do you need the original source? Do you have to crack open our Rudy head to get that piece and then build a program to make eyelids? See, now that's something else that we've been doing a lot more of is getting parts made by 3D printing. Not a lot because it's I feel like 3D printing, and forgive me, I don't know very much about 3D printing. So I'm just... Well, the materials have to be exact, right? That's great. It might look like it. It's the same color, the same shape. But if it's not the same quality of plastic, then it's... Sure. Or whatever the material is. Yeah, it's... It has to be durable because, I mean, it's a metal ball hitting a bunch of parts, you know? Yeah. Drop targets are, I think, something that can be 3D printed really well. But the eyelets, I'm not sure. I would be surprised if one of my coworkers attempted that because I do believe we have a sample piece of that eyelet assembly. Speaking of assembly, Marco has assembled quite the staff. I talked to recently Kim Martinez who left Ohio to come to South Carolina, and I assume she's loving it there. But you've got a great staff there and maybe a chance to give a shout-out to some of the wonderful people you work with. We have a customer service. one of my customer service co-workers her name is kelly she just has the friendliest voice if you ever call up it's like talking to a ray of sunshine and she actually she came on to work with us and she didn't know anything about pinball she worked in i believe it was like housing management before she came to work for us and um after about i would say maybe two or three months she said well i'm gonna go out and play pinball with you and and came out to transmission and bang back and ended up just loving pinball and now she's obsessed with it and she comes out to bells and chimes and you know she doesn't really do a whole lot of tournament play because the competition is is kind of uh i think it's just not her jam but um she loves learning about it and i love it when that happens it's really great because sometimes people will get a job and they'll be like well you know it's my job i'm not gonna go and make an effort to do it outside of work and uh to have someone engage in that capacity is so spectacular. But now she probably loves her job even more. I believe so. On Marco Pinball on Twitch, we learn a lot, but also Emoto Harney is just so darn good at hosting everything she does and the video packages she puts together. She has to be one of your favorite people. She absolutely is. She's one of my favorite people, one of my favorite coworkers. She does a lot of marketing stuff for us and she's a whiz. and if you've ever seen a moto running a show or if you've ever seen her at any point at a show you know that she's either getting us food or trying to find audio equipment or trying to help set up a pinball machine I mean she's always moving she's just such a hard worker and she does such a good job at it it was funny because when we were in Milwaukee we arrived and it was a little bit late at night and went up to the hotel room you know put our bags down and I said well I'm going to crash because it was a long day of travel and She goes, okay, well, I'm going to go downstairs and check it out. She didn't come to bed until 4 o'clock in the morning because she was helping the guys downstairs set up pinball machines. Wow.

17:42

You know what I'm saying, though, right? The knowledge that I have now about parts and if I could apply that to how I used to fix games. Now I feel like if I opened a pinball machine now open, it would be a little bit of a struggle to kind of get back into it because I don't really work on machines anymore. But that is great hands-on experience that you did have at Logan Arcade because of the volume of usage for those games. Things are going to break down. Things are going to get dirty. You're going to have to get in there. And what a great learning curve. Yeah. Yeah, it really was great. And it gives a lot of context to a lot of the things that I say on the phone to customers because I'll have customers who ask me, you know, well, how often should I be cleaning my machine? Or how often should I be, you know, changing out the flipper mechanisms and this, that, and the other thing? And I always say, you know, well, it depends. how much are you playing it? Is it on location? Is it just in your basement? Because things like that make a huge difference. A lot of the people will call up and they'll rescue something from a barn and they just know that they need new rubbers and maybe some new lamps, but they don't realize that, well, they need to replace the pinballs. They're like, well, why would I replace the pinball? It's like, well, it's old. It's going to be pocked. It's going to be rusted. It's going to travel across your playing field. And then you're going to have a screwed up play field, like replace the balls. It's again, it kind of goes back to like what I was talking about, where a lot of people sort of don't know what they're getting into when they're repairing machines or when they take on first buying a machine and repairing it. And some people are pleasantly surprised with it. Usually those are the people who do love to work with their hands. And then others are sort of a little bit more, oh, well, I didn't realize this is going to be this much work. You know, I always say there are no dumb questions on pinball profile. And I say that because I ask most of them. So here's one right now. You're talking about changing the rubbers and whatnot. So some of my games have black rubbers, some have white rubbers, and those white rubbers do not stay white very long, but I find the play fields are not as dirty as the ones with the black rubbers. Am I onto something here? Is there a better rubber to use? Does it matter? Should I be using a different product? I'm talking about sling rubbers, for example. Yep. This is a huge point of contention with a lot of people. Yeah. That and cleaning product, because a lot of people say, well, mill wax is the only thing I use. And then other people say, no, use Novus. And then other people say, no, use what? It's like, I think that there's probably a couple of pin side threads just about that, just about cleaning. But as far as the rubbers are concerned, the black rubbers have got a little bit of a higher durometer, which means that they're just a little bit tougher. The white rubbers are a little bit springier. Oh, okay. So, and I mean, there's, you could look at a chart online and you'll see that there's the difference in durometer. For instance, we have super bands, which are a polyurethane blend, and they have a pretty high durometer. So a lot of people will buy them, and then it'll be tough to get them on because they have such a high durometer. They're really tough. The thing is, is they're going to last longer because of that high durometer. So if you look at the scale, you know, the super bands are going to be at the end of the scale where it's like they're the toughest, and then the black rubbers will be the next, and then the white. the black rubbers tend to sometimes leave a lot more residue on the playfield, so people don't like them, but then they prefer the hydrometer because it's a little bit tougher. So it really is a matter of opinion. So you're going to be changing more white rubbers for a couple of reasons, because they're going to get a little loose, they're going to get dirty, but your playfield's not going to be as messy. Is that a safe assumption? Yeah, that's pretty spot on. Oh, Pinside just blew up. They just blew up. I can see it now. Teal us again, Nick. They're attacking rubbers, and they're lying. No, I didn't know about the cleaning of the play field, too. I didn't know there were different options. I guess I should read some of these pin side threads. I've always used that Novus, and I don't know if that's right or wrong. Yeah, I don't know, man. I think it's one of those things, and I've made the joke where I think it would be great if we took a play field that's kind of worn down, maybe not too bad, whatever, and then clean it every day. just clean one side with Novus One and one side with Milwax, or Novus Two and one side with Milwax. Crystal, we can do pinball Mythbusters.

23:09

Oh, well. So now that these shows are starting to happen again and the IFPA is back and we're going to see more people coming indoors and playing pinball, one thing Marco did a lot of, and I assume with Expo coming up, they had a huge, huge display there. Are we going to see Marco at all these different events, or is it too soon, or are you ramping up? What's going on? It's too soon to tell 100%. we did go and make an appearance at Milwaukee because there was this it was MGC Knights or MGC Midwest Gaming Knights I think is what it was called and that was Dan Lucent he held this little show at the original hotel location where MGC was originally held and it was one room and it was filled and it was a lot of fun and great and so we were there and we were showing our support which was awesome and then Southern Fry Gaming Expo but that all I aware of for now I not sure what going to happen in the fall I think it still sort of a wait and see and hopefully it would be great to see everybody and represent and support. I've got to tell you something. It made me really happy, and I'm sure a lot of people, especially in your neck of the woods, as tough as it has been over the last 18 months for arcades and venues and just in a lot of different ways, pinball in general, Certainly the supply. I don't think the passion for pinball has waned at all. In fact, it might have grown because we've been inside, and these are great things to have in your home. But it was great to see Fred Richardson put up Bang Back Pinball Lounge in Columbia, South Carolina, and it looks like it's just a fantastic place, doing really well, Stern Army, all kinds of good tournaments. He's had a lot of different pinball pros come from all over the country. And tell me, what's Bang Back like? Bang Back's great. It's something that Fred's been working on for a long time. It's been a passion project of his. He's always wanted to open a bar, and he did it. And it's in a really popular neighborhood. It's in a neighborhood that's full of a lot of younger people. So he's been finding that a lot of young women actually have been coming to play there. The scene in Columbia, as far as female pinball players, has grown exponentially. He has a help when I can with Bells and Chimes, which has started a new chapter down here. and it's really terrific. He's got over, I think, over 20 pinball machines, a lot of new stern titles, great drinks, great food. I'm looking at the menu right now on bangbackpinball.com. Very nice. I mean, I got to get there. Yeah, you got to come down. It's grown so much and it's still kind of a small scene. We're working on growing it and we're trying our best. There are a couple of other places that have got several machines and people are starting to put machines on location, which is really, really fantastic. There's a place on Main Street called Transmission, and they have tournaments there, a couple of pinball machines. There's this place called Granby Grill. There's about, I think, five or six pinball machines. It's become a big tournament spot. I saw one on Marco Pinball on Twitch, too, and I can't remember which one that was. That might have been Transmission. Yeah, I think that was it. Yep. And it's really great all around, and we're really trying to grow the community. And we're also trying to make sure that each venue sort of supports the other. so if there's going to be a tournament at bang back we're going to make an announcement at the tournament at you know transmission and we're going to say hey make sure you go next month to bang back because there's going to be this that or the other thing or you know next weekend there's a tournament at gramby make sure you show up we're going to do ifpa again because we really want the community to be you know one and just support each other because it means more people get to play pinball it's huge and i tell you with the new bells and chimes chapter there in south carolina and all the other pinball players that you have there, that's it. Yeah, that's great. You've got a night here, but what if I want to play again? Okay, there's something going on here. Yeah, I mean, I know where I live just outside of the greater Toronto area. You could probably play in a league or a tournament almost seven days a week. Oh, yeah. I mean, it might be a two-hour drive, but, I mean, certainly there's something. I think there is something almost every night. Maybe not Wednesdays. I can't think of anything, but every other night I'm like, wow, that's exciting. And then, of course, there's the location, Pinball, as well, too, with great places like Cabin Fever. And it's nice to see it growing there in Columbia. Yeah, it's awesome. I'm super excited that Kim is down here now, Kim Martinez, because she is just such a community-driven individual when it comes to Pinball. And she has a really good eye for recognizing where things can improve and where better ways to help things grow. So I'm really looking forward to hanging out with her more and seeing what she does for the community because I think she's going to be a powerhouse. And also she's like so awesome. Yeah. We've become pretty fast friends, which is great. I saw her firsthand do wonders at Klee Pin, which is coming up in early September in Independence, Ohio. But obviously she's taking that to a whole new level. She did what she did at level one for years, but then with the Women's Advisory Board, with the IFPA, and now with Marco. Boy, you've got a winner there, Kim. Yeah, for sure. She actually taught me like in one night how to be less physical with my like with my playing because I've always been a very, very physical, very active, loud player. Can you share the tip? I'm curious what it is. Well, I can't even figure it out because she has the same energy when she plays, you know, like I don't know how to articulate it. It's difficult because I feel like she definitely shares the same energy and the same sort of focus when it comes to playing. but she sort of just zips it up, right? Yeah. And she still makes slap saves, which is something that I am extremely active in doing, but sometimes a little bit too much.