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The Pinball Show Ep 150: Trip Pinballs

The Pinball Network·video·1h 48m·analyzed·Apr 8, 2024
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TL;DR

Pinball Show #150: ABBA launch, Stern updates, GPX collector imprint, and industry pipeline shifts.

Summary

The Pinball Show episode 150 covers multiple industry developments: Stern Pinball production updates (Jaws, Bond, Foo Fighters accessories), Pinball Brothers' launch of ABBA Pinball with two limited-edition trim levels ($9,995–$10,995), Dutch Pinball announcing GPX (a collector-focused sister company) pursuing failed IP like Alice in Wonderland and Kingpin, and American Pinball's personnel changes with designer Dennis Nordman transitioning to consultant status. New releases and pipeline rumors include John Wick (Stern), Cuphead (American Pinball), and supply constraints on popular models like Godzilla Premium.

Key Claims

  • Pinball Brothers ABBA Pinball launched with two limited editions: Arrival (500 units, $9,995) and Voyage (300 units, $10,995)

    high confidence · Craig Bobby (news segment) cites official Pinball Brothers announcement with pricing and unit limits confirmed

  • Dutch Pinball announced GPX, a new sister company owned by Barry Dyson in collaboration with Melvin Williams, focused on limited-edition collector machines

    high confidence · Craig Bobby cites official announcement; trademarks filed for Magic Girl, RAZA, and Kingpin

  • GPX's first rumored machine is Alice in Wonderland (John Papadiuk/Zidware project), followed by Kingpin or Big Bang Bar

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby attributes to Knapp Arcade; unconfirmed rumor about failed IP acquisition strategy

  • Dennis Nordman is no longer a full-time employee of American Pinball; expected to return as consultant if they build Whitewater 2

    high confidence · Craig Bobby cites Pinball News and Pinball Magazine monthly podcast as source

  • Whitewater 2 may not be made due to high bill of materials making it unprofitable; American Pinball pivoting to Cuphead (designer Ryan McQuaid) for potential Chicago Pinball Expo release

    medium confidence · Craig Bobby cites Pinside discussion; rumored timeline for Chicago Expo (mid-October)

  • Stern Pinball shipped Jaws Pro units last week; Jaws Premium production starting late April; small Bond Pro/Premium run planned late April into May with no rerun until 2025

    high confidence · Host (Zach) provides production timeline based on Stern factory updates

  • Godzilla Premium inventory is drying up across dealer networks; next run likely Q3/Q4 2024, not before summer

    medium confidence · Host notes inventory indicators and speculation on restocking timeline

  • Foo Fighters received a significant code update (revised to v1.01) that improved reception; $2,000 Foo Fighters topper sold well despite high price

    high confidence · Host discusses accessory sales and code update impact on game appeal

Notable Quotes

  • “I was on a boat listening to this with tears. Not the happy, funny tears. The, what are they doing to my baby?”

    Zach (host)@ 5:12 — Reaction to experimental episode 149.5; illustrates host frustration with unconventional content direction

  • “It's the only time that you're ever going to see it in your life. Well, you know, I don't care. I really don't care.”

    Zach@ 11:54 — Dismissive take on solar eclipse hype; characterizes host's skepticism of trendy events

  • “Jaws is still kind of the one that people are ordering... Godzilla Premium is starting to get a little dry. And I don't know, ETA-wise, I don't think they've really determined when they're going to run it again.”

    Zach@ 21:47 — Market demand signal; indicates supply constraint risk for high-demand model

  • “I was a little salty about being the topper king because I wasn't getting my toppers in a good enough time.”

    Zach@ 22:40 — Earlier frustration with Stern accessory fulfillment; contextualizes recent improvement

  • “Stern Pinball, you hit another one out of the park. Let's hope Venom Topper comes out and maybe helps some sales a little bit.”

    Zach@ 24:27 — Praise for accessory strategy; hints at upcoming Venom accessory line

  • “I think what really still saves us, number one, is the Stern game. Everybody buys Stern games, they do. And the big one, though, is Keanu Reeves.”

    Zach@ 25:19 — Analysis of John Wick appeal; celebrity licensing and brand loyalty as sales drivers

Entities

Zach SharpepersonDennis KreiselpersonCraig BobbypersonPinball BrotherscompanyDutch PinballcompanyBarry DysonpersonMelvin WilliamspersonStern Pinballcompany

Signals

  • ?

    product_launch: Pinball Brothers officially announced ABBA Pinball with two limited-edition trim levels (Arrival 500 @ $9,995, Voyage 300 @ $10,995); production begins May 2024; features 20+ ABBA songs, interactive helicopter, disco ball

    high · Craig Bobby official announcement with confirmed MSRPs, unit limits, creative team, and production timeline

  • ?

    product_launch: Dutch Pinball launches GPX (Dutch Pinball Exclusive), a collector-focused sister company owned by Barry Dyson in collaboration with Melvin Williams; strategy focuses on limited-edition reworkings of failed/vaporous IP

    high · Official announcement confirmed; trademark filings documented for Magic Girl, RAZA, and Kingpin

  • ?

    machine_intel: GPX rumored first release: Alice in Wonderland (John Papadiuk/Zidware failed project); followed by Kingpin or Big Bang Bar; reflects collector demand for reworked failed titles

    medium · Knapp Arcade source cited; trademark evidence supports Kingpin and Alice focus; community speculation on failed IP appeal

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Dennis Nordman transitions from full-time to consultant status at American Pinball; was lead designer on Whitewater 2, which may not be produced due to high bill of materials

    high · Craig Bobby cites Pinball News and Pinball Magazine monthly podcast as source; confirmed via industry reporting

  • ?

    product_strategy: American Pinball pivots from Whitewater 2 (unprofitable BOM) to licensed Cuphead title by new designer Ryan McQuaid; targeting Chicago Pinball Expo (mid-October) release

Transcript

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0:00
Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised.
0:11
The Pinball Network is online. Launching The Pinball Show. This week on a very special episode 150 of The Pinball Show, I return from vacation with grievances. We chat about the whoop-de-doo of the solar eclipse, We talk Stern Pinball production updates, a new topper from Stern, Pinball Brothers launching ABBA Pinball, our thoughts about the new game, Dutch Pinball announcing a new company and locking in failed IP, American Pinball visiting the Loser Kids, a most classic Nordman appearance, and, of course, a jam-packed Pinball Market Trends featuring Creasel AI. Official club members get exclusive content this week covering Pedretti Gaming's upcoming remake. Centaur Revisited making a TPF appearance. My Surprise with Looney Tunes, and Jersey Jack, Chicago Gaming Company, and Barrels of Fun Production Updates. We are proud to be the Pinball Show, and we appreciate you being a part of it.
1:14
Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality.
1:28
Thank you, listener, for tuning in to the Pinball Show. This is episode 150. Dennis, I'm so glad these people took a chance on us. Yeah. Does that work? Yeah, I guess so. I'm so glad to be back. Yeah, I guess I'm back. Is that John Wick reference? Not that that's a rumor of the next turn game coming out. I'm glad there's no rumors. You know why I'm glad that I'm back? No. Because whatever the fuck episode 149.5 was at the pinball show, I didn't even know if the doors would be able to be unlocked again. Like chains on it. There was people throwing Molotov cocktails at our building here at the recording studio. Not the cocktails. What in the hell? Where did you find a Canadian to try to sit into my place and produce the most head-scratching episode of the pinball show? You know how many messages we received because of that, whatever the hell you called that, 149.5? Dennis. What? What the fuck was that? Look, it was an experiment. Oh, my God. It was an experiment. Wow. People, look, let me tell you how I see the world. I see the world in a different way than you do, Zach. I see the world, and I go, you know what the problem is with the pinball show? We're like potato chips. Like, this is just filler.

  • John Wick is rumored to be the next Stern release, expected end of April announcement with end of May/early June production start

    medium confidence · Host speculates based on production timeline pattern; not officially confirmed

  • ABBA Pinball production begins May 2024; all U.S. orders ship from Pinball Brothers USA hub to avoid high international customs fees (contrasting Alien shipping costs of $1,200+)

    high confidence · Craig Bobby reports official production and logistics information from Pinball Brothers

  • “This is a bit of a dated license, in my opinion... Because it is a bit of a dated license, in my opinion.”

    Zach@ 25:03 — Concern about John Wick's market relevance; hedged by coolness factor

  • “A bit of a messy launch for pinball brothers... That's not a good sales day to launch something.”

    Zach@ 27:25 — Critique of ABBA launch timing (Saturday) and communication lag with dealers

  • “You've got to get your salespeople the information as soon as possible because otherwise what's the point, right?”

    Zach@ 28:41 — Operational critique of Pinball Brothers' dealer communication process

  • “So shipping ended up being like $1,200 if not more... But now the Pinball Brothers, they got their stuff in order here. Everything's going to ship from the USA hub.”

    Zach/Craig@ 31:28 — Logistical improvement for Pinball Brothers; contrasts with Alien shipping problems

    • American Pinball
    company
    Dennis Nordmanperson
    Ryan McQuaidperson
    John Papadiukperson
    Kelly Mazerowskiperson
    Arik Lawsonperson
    Joe Schoberperson
    ABBA Pinballgame
    Jaws (Stern)game
    John Wick (Stern)game
    Cuphead (American Pinball)game
    Godzilla (Stern)game
    Foo Fighters (Stern)game
    Alice in Wonderland (GPX/Zidware)game
    Kingpin (GPX/Capcom)game
    Ron Howlettperson
    Chicago Pinball Expoevent

    medium · Craig Bobby cites Pinside discussion and Pinball News reporting; timeline speculative but sourced to developer communication

  • ?

    product_concern: ABBA Pinball launch marked by miscommunication: leaked images Thursday before Saturday launch, dealer information delayed until Friday afternoon, Saturday launch day deemed poor sales timing

    high · Host (Zach) first-hand account of dealer information delays and messaging gaps with Pinball Brothers

  • $

    market_signal: Godzilla Premium inventory drying up across dealer networks; next restocking estimated Q3/Q4 2024, not before summer; supply pressure increasing demand

    medium · Host cites inventory indicators from dealer contacts; notes pattern of early depletion suggesting high demand

  • ?

    code_update: Foo Fighters received significant code update (v1.01) that materially improved community reception and game appeal; hosts cite as model for turning around underperforming titles

    high · Host compares pre- and post-update reception; notes similar positive trajectory to other titles receiving major code revisions

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Pinball Brothers implemented USA distribution hub for ABBA Pinball to avoid international shipping costs ($1,200+) that plagued Alien releases; all U.S. orders ship domestically

    high · Craig Bobby cites official Pinball Brothers announcement; directly contrasts with Alien international fulfillment problems

  • ?

    rumor_hype: John Wick rumored as next Stern release with end-of-April announcement target; expected to leverage Keanu Reeves celebrity appeal and action/violence genre coolness to offset dated license concerns

    medium · Host speculation based on production timeline patterns; not officially confirmed by Stern; community sentiment mixed on relevance

  • ?

    product_strategy: ABBA Pinball released exclusively as limited editions (no unlimited tier); Arrival 500 units @ $9,995, Voyage 300 units @ $10,995; primary differentiation is art package, not mechanical features

    high · Craig Bobby official pricing/tier confirmation; noted as deviation from typical unlimited-tier strategy

  • ?

    content_signal: The Pinball Show ep 149.5 experiment (alternative format with Canadian guest reviewing past predictions) generated polarized community response; motivated host Zach to return for ep 150; Dennis positioning alternative content as audience growth strategy

    high · Extensive opening segment discussing audience feedback; ep 149.5 framed as deliberate but divisive editorial choice

    • 2:51
    It's lowbrow. It's low-effort content. And people just, you know, they come. They want to hear the market trends. They hear the GOAT. They hear about, and, you know, you tell them about how great all the games are. And that's kind of what the show is. And so I thought, okay, well, while you're on vacation, I'm going to go back. I'm going to do something that doesn't happen in pinball. I'm going to have a Canadian on, and we are going to go back and actually go over predictions that we made years ago and find out if we were right or wrong. No one ever revisits. Everyone makes predictions and then acts like they're right all the time. Most people don't go back to do predictions when they know all of them are wrong. Look, it was to be thoughtful. We talked about economic flow and the impact of pinball. And I will admit the episode was polarizing. To say the least, polarizing. But it was polarizing. I think it's fair because I saw I saw I received feedback from a number of people who said they really enjoyed it. And I also received the feedback from a lot of people who said, where is Zach? This is really bad. Maybe Dennis should be replaced. It was. So there were a lot of people like this or when people will come out of the woodworks to say, you know what? We don't compliment Zach enough. Wow. We missed him dearly. So for that, thank you for doing it. David and I knew that it was going to be polarized, and we knew it was going to be. But I thought at the very least, the side effect would be that absence makes the heart grow fonder. And people, Zach, I know sometimes you feel like that they don't appreciate what you do on the show, but now they understand that. I mean, if you weren't back for this episode, because I thought you might want to take another episode off, I was already planning to have someone else on, and we were going to go over. Actually, I wanted to ask Ron Howlett. I'll tell you what it's going to be. I was going to ask Ron Howlett Jr. from Slam Tilt On, also from Silver Ball Chronicles. I was going to ask him to come on, and I wanted to spend an entire episode going over what the most common errors of the Gottlieb system ADV are and how to resolve them. You're trying to ruin our brand. What are you doing? What? No. I'm growing. I'm growing our audience into actually having to use some thought. I think Dave Dennis really thought he weaved gold on 149. I did not. I really think he did. And here's the thing. I was on a boat listening to this with tears. Not the happy, funny tears. The, what are they doing to my baby? I blame you, David Dennis. And I was sitting there, and I thought, you know what? Whenever Dennis Kreisel is saying, oh, Zach's pretentious. He wants 150. So he's giving us .5. And I thought, you know what? Fucking rightfully so. After this, rightfully so. That episode deserved 149.2. That deserves a V.75 Stern release launch coat. That's what that was. Never again. Please, please. But I would like to hear you and Ron Hallett. Okay, well, I have a good Gottlieb episode in mind. Sounds like a Silver Ball Chronicles .5 episode to me.
    6:02
    All right, so I don't know what that was. I was so confused over the last couple of weeks because here I am in the middle of the ocean on a wonderful Disney Cruise Line boat. and enjoying myself, very confused about what I was listening to as I sat in the coffee shop one morning listening to what the pinball show 149.5 was trying to be. Also confused by a couple of things on the cruise ship. I know you've not taken a cruise, Dennis, but this is more behavioral observations from humans in general. I guess you would skew more maybe out-of-the-country people on something like this, on a vacation like this, so maybe it's a cultural thing. I'm not sure, but that does not mean I won't still poke fun at humans that do really, really stupid things. Can you take a ride with me on this? As long as I get the norovirus, yeah, I'll take a ride. You might. It's worth it, though. Two things.
    6:56
    Etiquette. Just general behavioral etiquette of humans. I don't think this is a cultural thing. I don't think it's a regional thing. I think it's just a good, decent human being versus a shithead in comparison, say, when it comes to behavior and mannerisms and choices when vacationing within a large group of people. This could be at a resort. This could be on a cruise ship, whatever. But here's the thing, Dennis. You putting a white towel on a beach chair does not indicate possession of said pool chair. It's the towel roll. No. No, no, no, no, no. Why do people think that I won't just go pick up their towel, laugh, and put it on the ground? Because you'd violate towel rule. This is not a rule that one will follow, nor should you listening. If somebody thinks, now, here's the difference. If it was a beach bag, I'm a little more hesitant to touch people's shit. You know, if it was their hat, their sunglasses, their purse, I think it's bullshit. But I'll give them the possession of the chair at that point. But using the resort's towel as ownership of the chair. No, no, no. It's like a double negative. It cancels each other out. I find it funny. And you know what I did? Because I'm somewhat of an asshole. I just walked around and took some of the white towels and just threw them on the ground. I didn't even use the chair. I just wanted to see what they would do.
    8:23
    Don't be a shitty human. I'm going to be a bad human if you're a bad human. And I can see trying it. I can see trying the white towel, Dennis. Try it. But don't get upset if somebody takes your chair. That was like a good try, but I called you bluff.
    8:37
    The other thing, elevators. Let's say you go up to an elevator, Dennis, and you press the up or down button you're anticipating getting on. And while you're waiting for the elevator to come down, 10 or 15 other people have come within the same area looking to ride the elevator. Let's say that elevator only holds eight people, Dennis. How should that boarding process then work when the elevator doors open? It's just based off of who's closest to the doors goes in first. Really? Yeah. That is not true. It's just like a light. When people pull up to the intersection at the same time. Who cares what order people get into elevators? Because only eight will fit. And damn it, if I've been there, I should be able to get on within the first loading. You should have been hugging the door. Why were you so far away from the door? You're one of those people who pushes the button and then walks 30 feet away. I'm trying to get the whole room to get out. You can't white towel the elevator door button. No, it's not white-toweling it. No. When you come up to the waiting area, you recognize who's there, right? Just like any crowded line. If it's a skew of a line, I'll say, no, they were here first. So I did that several times during my trip. I said, no, wait a minute. This person has been waiting here longer than any of you guys. Let them board the elevator first. You have to be cognizant of who is in the waiting area before you just flip-flop your ass right through there because the door is open. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Sweaty Joe. No, no. That's not how this works. Be decent. You would say, whoever's the front line. That's why people get trampled. Yes, that's why. Right? Just be good human beings. Don't even get me started on the buffet. So, yeah, a couple things. I'm trying to relax. Trying to loosen up on a family vacation, and shit like this inevitably happens to me on a daily basis. And I just, I note all of it. And I wonder what is wrong with you people. Speaking of what's wrong with you people, we'll talk about pinball here in a second, but another big story in the United States, at least, is the solar eclipse is happening. It's all the news that's covering us. It is, right? I'm so sick of it. I didn't know if you're the type of – a lot of our listeners, Dennis, will travel across the country, maybe even across the world, to go into the path of totality.
    10:56
    Mortal Kombat. Totality. totality, and they will go to visit sites in the path of the solar eclipse. You're not that person. No. Are you an astrological person in general?
    11:13
    Well, there's a difference between astronomy and astrology. You know what? Full disclosure, no fucking clue between the two. Okay. So astronomy is me.
    11:26
    Astrology is nonsense. So, um... Hard take there. I don't think... Well, don't... We just feel a strong take. You know, I was more into astronomy when I was a kid, but... I don't know, chasing... Look, this ain't no Carly Simon song, okay? I ain't chasing solar eclipses. I thought you were chasing waterfalls. That's not Carly Simon, so that wouldn't make any sense. I don't know why people care about this. Well, it's the only time that you're ever going to see it in your life. Well, you know, I don't care. I really don't care. We know you don't care. I think I've probably seen my asshole a couple of times in my life, and I'm fine with that. I don't need to see that. What is it? What are we talking here? So it's going to go total dark during the day. It's called a cloudy day. Who cares? I don't know what the drawl is, I guess. Yeah. What am I missing? What is this? I don't have answers for it. It's just, you know, it's rare-ish.
    12:24
    Some people get excited about it. Look, people get excited about patterns, and they get excited about rare-ish things. So even though there's stellar eclipses all the time, it's like, oh, this one's close enough. We can do it or whatever, just like how today is 222-2022 day. Oh, that's right. It's the only time it'll ever happen in history. No one cares. Yeah, I don't care. Unless you're writing a check, and who does that anymore? Yeah, but time isn't circular. I don't, you know, time is a weird thing. Look, quit going with your inception nonsense. Oh, my gosh. Or Interstellar. Excuse me. You don't like the better movie. No, Inception's great. I like that, too, but Interstellar shorts. All right. I guess let's crack around here. Craig, you want to talk about some top stories here in pinball? Get us back on track?
    13:10
    No. Oh, wait. That wasn't him. That was me. That's good. Hello and great to be back on the Pinball Show's Top Stories. I'm Craig Bobby. Well, if I had to describe recent events in the pinball world these days, I'd say there had been some big announcements made by the smaller manufacturers in the pinball hobby. Yes, with industry leaders Stern Pinball, Spooky Pinball, and Jersey Jack in their build-out phase, with Jaws, Looney Tunes, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and Elton John respectively, with no real news likely before May or June, it's left lots of room for up-and-comers like Dutch Pinball, American Pinball, and the Pinball Brothers to take center stage and showcase their latest pinball offerings and developments. First up, we have some news by the not-so-pinball brothers. Yes, while the company name remains the same, original founders Roger and Kato said recently they had not been involved in any decision-making with the company since January of 2022, and later officially exited the company in 2023, but were excited to be now working on some presumably pinball-related projects. This comes right before news broke this past week that the Pinball Brothers Company, and not the aforementioned original founders, announced their latest pinball machine based on the iconic Swedish pop band ABBA. Say what? Now, ABBA rose to be one of the most successful pop groups of all time back in the 70s and 80s, and whose music and various licensed deals from concerts, movies, and Broadway shows has made the Swedish quartet a music empire and some of the wealthiest people in the music industry today. This week, the Pinball Brothers revealed two trim levels of machines, Arrival Limited Edition with an MSRP of $9,995, and limited to 500 units, and the Voyage Collector Edition with an MSRP of $10,995 and limited to 300 units. It features more than 20 of ABBA's greatest hits and music videos, a fully interactive Arrival Helicopter from the iconic Arrival album cover, and a disco ball. The Pinball Brothers held their official launch event for the game on April 6th, which also happened to be the 50th anniversary of the date that ABBA won the Eurovision Song Contest all those years ago. Now, as you might expect, online reaction to the game's announcement was mixed, as many avid pinball fans remained skeptical at the game's layout and code after a rather disappointing showing of the pinball brothers' last game based on music Legends Queen. So while the ABBA music certainly lives on in the hearts and minds of millions of fans across the world, Does it resonate in the hearts and minds of pinball fans in 2024? Well, you know what I say, we shall have to wait and see. Now over to Dutch Pinball, who is pleased to announce the introduction of GPX, short for Dutch Pinball Exclusive. This new sister company that is owned by Barry Dyson, founder of Dutch Pinball in collaboration with Melvin Williams, marks an extension of Dutch Pinball's existing portfolio, focusing on producing limited editions of high-quality pinball machines for collectors. We all know that the devil is in the details, so what limited edition titles you say are rumored to be in the works? Well, according to Knapp Arcade, Melvin Williams owns the newly filed trademark for Magic Girl, Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland, or RAZA, and none other than Capcom's Kingpin. First up, however, it's rumored that DPX's first machine is yet another failed project of the infamous pinball designer John Papaduke and his Zidware company, Alice in Wonderland, followed most likely by their second game, rumored to be Kingpin or Big Bang Bar.
    17:11
    That would be so crazy! Now, why this weird, mystic, and I'd argue unfounded demand still lingers on these failed titles is really beyond me, but it just shows that there is a certain segment of the pinball market that is still clamoring for finished versions of these vastly, and I do mean vastly, overhyped games. And lastly, over to our barbecue crazy friends at American Pinball, where Barry O's last creation, Barry O's Barbecue Challenge, is still on the production line, as eager American fans wait for their copy of this non-licensed title that received very lukewarm, if not miserable, reviews at the Texas Pinball Festival this past year. However, hang tight, because according to the recent Pinball News and Pinball Magazine monthly podcast, Dennis Nordman is no longer a full-time employee of American Pinball. Nordman is expected to return to American Pinball as a consultant if American Pinball decides to build the next game that he was working on for the company rumored to be Whitewater 2. There has been some talk on Pinside that the Whitewater Sequel's bill of materials was too high for it to be a profitable game at this point, and it may never actually be made. Now, Whitewater 2 was supposed to be the next game manufactured by American Pinball, but supposedly that game was pushed back in favor of a licensed game designed by newcomer Ryan McQuaid, rumored to be based on the popular video game Cuphead. Inconceivable! Now, for those of you who are like me that don't know, Cuphead is a 2017 side-scrolling run-and-gun video game developed and published by Studio MDHR. The game follows its titular teacup-headed character who makes a deal with the devil to pay casino losses by repossessing the souls of runaway debtors. American Pinball is hopeful that this licensed game will be ready by the upcoming Chicago Pinball Expo, which takes place in mid-October. Well, Zach and Dennis, that's all I have for this week. For the Pinball Show, I'm Craig Bobby. Catch you on the foot side.
    19:17
    Well, thank you, Craig, for going over all of that pinball news goodness. Heck, yeah. One of the things he didn't cover that we'll cover now is some Stern Pinball production updates. Over the last couple of weeks, listener, we have seen the likes of the following coming from the factory doors of Stern Pinball. Jurassic Park premiums. Haven't seen those in a while. Wait, that's not a good Jurassic sound. Oh.
    19:40
    Then how are you going to do Godzilla? Godzilla Pros? No, that's why it was too close to Godzilla, so I had to change it. Oh, that was your... Okay. Godzilla Pros have been rolling out. We haven't seen those in quite some time. Yeah. And then, more recently, Jaws Pros. Yeah, Jaws Pros have been shipping last week. This week, they will continue producing and shipping Jaws Pros, as well as, likely, towards the end of the week, starting Jaws Premiums. premiums. So the premium run for April. Yeah, and then April, the remainder of April, I think we're going to see Joel's premiums. We're going to see Elvira premiums, House of Horse. We're going to see that. And then late in this month into next month, a very, very small, pequeno, little bitty run of Bond Pro and premiums. So get those now because there are no plans to run those again until 2025. That's quite a wait. That is a wait for a newer game that is close to 1.0. I think it's sitting at 9.9. But still not loved.
    20:39
    If it gets the big code update that Foo Fighters recently got, that thing jumped from, I think that's at 1.0 now. I think they revised it 1.01. But Foo Fighters really got a code update that people are loving. Back to production updates. We'll see that late April, May That small run of bonds And then in May, next cornerstone? Maybe? I still think we might at the end of April Get that announcement And then May for production And then June is when we're going to see That subsequent run of Jaws Pro and premium again And the reason they're running these people Is because whatever new hot Ticket there is, whether it's Elton John or ABBA Jaws is still kind of the one that people are ordering. Elwins in general. Why do you think that is? Elwins? Because Elwins, yeah. We got an order this last week for Jurassic Park Premium. We usually get every week, every other week, an order of a Godzilla Premium. And I'll tell you this, listener. You know what's going to be drying up here very soon? Already seeing indications of drying up inventory-wise throughout dealers across the country. Godzilla Premium. Godzilla Premium is starting to get a little dry. And I don't know, ETA-wise, I don't think they've really determined when they're going to run it again. But it would not surprise me if it wasn't Q3, Q4 kind of thing. I don't know if we're going to see it between now and the summer. I think we're going to have to wait until the fall or winter for a Godzilla Premium. So you'll see that coming a little bit more demand here over the next month or two. So if you are thinking about getting one of those, I would snatch one of those up sooner than later. Since I have been gone, Foo Fighters accessories were launched. We got to see the new topper for Foo Fighters, armor, shooter rod, interior art blades, expression light kit, and it's bittersweet for me. It's always bittersweet for me. Why so bitter? Because I'm the topper king. Well, I was. I don't know if I am anymore. No, you're not. I put it on the mantle. I was a little salty about being the topper king because I wasn't getting my toppers in a good enough time. I was a little bittersweet because with this comes a lot of sales, as it always does, because Stern makes awesome accessories. But also with that comes a lot of, hey, why aren't they making them fast enough? Hey, it's been a year. Hey, I know I was on the list. Questions that demand answers. A lot of them. Why are you only getting 20% of the toppers you have ordered or expression lights you have ordered? When are you getting the next ones? Oh, they haven't told you? I knew it was going to be hell, but I can report that it was hell initially because we didn't get all that we did order and certainly not enough for those who have pre-ordered from us. But this last week, CERN Pinball was able to, within the same month here, 30 days, able to get subsequent units out to us. I'm not saying we've fulfilled everyone's expression lighting accessory order, but all the other orders we have. So, bravo, Stern Pinball. Hell yeah. You still need to work on bringing out your accessories closer to when the game is more relevant. But, bravo, you're producing a large number. Dennis, $2,000 Foo Fighters topper. People were poking, making fun of it. I heard some of your comments on EGP. But believe it or not, people bought the shit out of this topper. I'm not surprised. Tons of purchases on this. It's $2,000. Even I'm like, damn, that's a lot of money for a topper. But it's a cool topper. If I had Foo Fighters, I'd have to have it. But it kind of surprised me how many sales we've seen, we as in the royal distribution we, for Foo Fighters. Stern Pinball, you hit another one out of the park. Let's hope Venom Topper comes out and maybe helps some sales a little bit. Do you think we see John Wick? That's the rumored game. Do you think we see that? And do you think we see that end of April, like I'm guessing? Yes, I think you're right. On both? John Wick? Yes, on both. Think it's a good title for pinball?
    24:50
    Might have been a better title three years ago, but sure. They're still going to be producing a John Wick 5 film. Yes. So, it's still relevant. People love those movies, except you. You know what I think saves us? No, I have no idea. Because it is a bit of a dated license, in my opinion. It still hits the cool factor, so that does help. Violence and coolness always does help. It's kind of evergreen when it comes to nostalgia. But I think what really still saves us, number one, is the Stern game. Everybody buys Stern games, they do. And the big one, though, is Keanu Reeves. If you get Keanu right there on the back glass, you know, firing pistols on the side of that cabinet,
    25:37
    I don't think people have a soft spot for that man. And I think the sales will reflect that. So I was initially kind of worried, big picture, thinking, you know, it's no Joles, it's no this. But I don't think it's so much John Wick is the theme. I think what helps save this is it's a Keanu Reeves and it's an action violence type of thing. It's a coolness type of factor. So I think sales will be more than fine. I mean, people, look what Foo Fighters did.
    26:09
    Look what Foo Fighters did. But I don't know. Who knows? It could be Pokemon. I have no clue. Maybe it's Dungeons and Dragons. Metallica?
    26:18
    Indiana Jones? I don't know. Could be anything. We know what Pinball Brothers has got up their sleeve. Oh, yes. Mama me.
    26:31
    Wasn't that a movie about impregnating multiple men? I don't remember. I didn't see it. Pinball Brothers this last week launched ABBA Pinball. That's right, listener. You heard it correctly. The band from 70s and 80s, ABBA. There's an ABBA. I said ABBA, but who knows? was right into the pinball show gmail.com and i don't we don't really care we don't care about that no uh bit of a messy launch for pinball brothers i don't know if you anybody experienced this but from the sales perspective i did they were supposed to launch saturday this past saturday that was the goal number one i like uh why this what a weird day to to launch a product I love my pinball brothers over there I love you all But, you know, ask American Pinball. I'm still going to be honest here on this podcast, for better or worse.
    27:25
    But on Saturday, that's just weird. That's not a good sales day to launch something. But they had some event. It was like the 50th anniversary of when they first appeared on Eurovision. They had that song. blah, blah, blah. It's about the notes that I know when it comes to this thing. So Saturday was weird. But then all of a sudden Thursday rolls around prior to Saturday, and the kineticist has pictures of this game, like full launch pictures. Upload them. We're like, oh, okay. And they were high res, so it wasn't like it was grainy or anything. And we're like, so did they launch? So I messaged Pinball Brothers, hey, I'm seeing pictures up. What's the pricing? I need to know what I'm selling here. And they said, unfortunately, we had leaked pictures and stuff like that. Saturday was the launch, so we may adjust. We may have to roll immediately with this. Stay tuned kind of thing.
    28:18
    And then I still didn't hear anything. Friday rolls along. Didn't hear anything. And at this point, Pinball News is rolling with official pictures from Pinball Bros. So it's like an official, this isn't leaked at this point. And they've got the right to produce these. And I'm like, shit, I still don't have information. I still don't know what I'm selling. So that's why I say a bit messy, a bit sloppy there. You've got to get your salespeople the information as soon as possible because otherwise what's the point, right?
    28:48
    So and then finally Friday, I think afternoon, they finally shot over the dealers. Hey, we're launching tomorrow, but here's all the assets. Here's the pricing. Here's everything. So we do know that there are two editions of Ava Pinball, one being called the Arrival Edition, the other being called the Voyage Edition. What's interesting here, listener, is that both of these are limited units. Pretty low numbers in the grand scheme of things, but maybe for this theme it makes more sense. But interesting to note that at this point in time, they have not released an unlimited numbered produced version. The Arrival Edition is going to have 500 units limited to that and the price tag of $99.95. So right under $10,000. Whereas the Voyage Edition is going to have 300 units, and it's $1,000 more, $10,995. And when we talk about the features later on, the only real difference here between the $1,000 units is that one has 200 units that are going to be more produced, that cheaper one. So you're buying into a different art package. That's the big thing. And the Voyage Edition has 200 less units. So basically if you like the other artists It's going to cost you $1,000 more I did ask Pinball Brothers Who's part of this team Creative team because we've not seen any Advertising on that Who's animating, who's programming They did tell me that we could share here On the Pinball Show that the following people Are part of the ABBA team, not limited to There's still others as well but some of the Main people that we've heard of Like Kelly Mazerowski Kelly's worked as an animator on Alien, on Queen, so Kelly is back for animation.
    30:31
    Arik Lawson, who the community is familiar with doing a lot of artwork, he's doing some artwork for ABBA. Joe Schober, or do people still call him the Ferret? I think a lot of people do. Okay. The Ferret is back, Joe Schober, with programming. High praise on him from a lot of people. So he's doing programming and rules and code. Brian Dominey. I'm not sure what Brian does. And then Yano's Kiss, all part of the ABBA team, but like I said, not limited to. Production starts next month, so in May, production will begin.
    31:06
    Another interesting thing, all U.S. orders will be shipped from Pinball Brothers USA Hub. So why this is significant and noteworthy is that, I think it was on Alien, some of the first Alien, like LV and SVs, shipping was pretty pricey because you had to pay like the customs fees and all of that and the taxes. So shipping ended up being like $1,200 if not more, $1,200 if not more. But now the Pinball Brothers, they got their stuff in order here. Everything's going to ship from the USA hub. So shipping is not going to be over $1,000. Shipping is going to be comparable to every other pinball machine that you ship, whether it's from Jersey Jack Pinball or Barrels of Fun Pinball. It's all going to be within that same price range, which makes this a bit more appealing even for this new item. All right, Dennis, let's get into the meat and potatoes of this release. It's a new release. We're going to talk about it. This is kind of their product statement. They said, this is Pinball Brothers, quote, Quote, this ABBA adventure is our way of congratulating our national musical treasure turning 50 and our way of saying thank you for the music. I thought that was nice. Yeah. A lot of people are like, why are you doing this? It's ABBA. I don't think it's a strong theme. Is ABBA really strong in Europe, I guess? I've heard it is. I've heard it's strong in Australia as well. Okay. All right. Because over here, I think it had its time, but that time was a long time ago. So I was very mixed. No, I'm not going to say mixed. I wasn't mixed. I was like, this is a bad thing for pinball. I don't know what you're doing. I don't know how you're going to do this.
    32:52
    Nothing visually I can imagine would ever be appealing regarding this franchise or this IP. I was really low on this. But then the following description that was provided by Pinball Brothers is why, listener, I am no longer upset on an ABBA pinball machine being launched in 2024. In the presentation that was provided to us dealers, this description was given, and I just hope that it was given publicly elsewhere. If not, I am so glad that your ears are about to hear how they describe the goal of the player in ABBA pinball.
    33:37
    I got to prepare for this. This is a quote. Buckle up for the ultimate ABBA adventure. Your mission is to make ABBA immortal by forging their ABBATARS to succeed. You need to gather their souls and travel through both time and space. Not just time, Dennis. We're traveling through time and space by forging their avatars, gathering their souls. And then they go on to say, all so you open the portal to the voyage dimension where the ancient medallion of power hides. Come on. I'm a believer. I'm an avatar at this point. I am so into this fucking shroom-ass trip that I'm about to take playing Abba Pinball.
    34:48
    I'm in that. They got me. I didn't care about the fans, but it feels like reading this, I'm on ketamine. Like, I am down to, there's mushrooms. I'm down to become an avatar. I don't know why we need to gather souls, but damn it, I'm intrigued. I want to gather the souls of those hippies. So how can you not be excited hearing that? At least they're having fun with this. Main features of this game, listener, include three flippers, six bowls, 20-plus ABBA songs and their music videos in this game, a helicopter physical ball lock with working blades. Did you see this? This is a cool toy. Yeah. Dennis is not impressed. Yeah, I'm looking at the flyer image right now. The helicopter physical ball arc was cool. The helicopter blades moved on Raven. When I saw those, those were cool. They're big blades. Didn't Raven's blades move on its helicopter? That was before we were born.
    35:50
    Not before I was born. I'm old. In the video, if you watch the video, I've got issues with the video, believe me. But, oh, that was the other thing. At launch, I can't get past that. They didn't have a sizzle reel. The launch on Saturday was just like a yam cam over somebody's shoulder playing this thing. So I just don't get why companies haven't figured that out yet. Everything at their disposal, but they just don't do it. But the one thing I took away from that video was that helicopter's cool with the working blade. Like, with it, because it takes up a pretty big area and swinging around, that's awesome. It also has an interactive disco ball. That's pretty fucking cool. It's pretty cool. It worked on Deadpool. It works, I think, even better here. Hopefully they have lights out coded kind of modes with that. A magnet grab ramp? I don't know if you've seen that. Yes, I did. Okay. So, yeah, in the left ramp, there's like a whirly gig where it goes up and it circles around kind of like left ramp on Pirates of the Caribbean, like a whirlpool ramp. But it just whirlpools around and goes down a wire form. But there's a magnet on the back of that plastic piece because it hugs the backboard of the game. So there's a magnet back there. And if they want to, they can control it, stop the ball up there, and then drop it down the hole. So that's cool. There are seven drop targets in this game. There are four pop bumpers in this game. Interesting.
    37:14
    Four pop bumpers? Right. You mean instead of doing like three? Yeah. I mean, in this day and age, it is more than we're used to. It feels like a space sucker to me. You know, Firepower had four. Oh. That was before you were born, too. Firepower. Yeah, it was. Seven drop targets. That's nothing to sneeze at there. I like that. And then when it comes to, a lot of people are going to say $10,000, you know, $11,000. That's a lot of money for this game. Mm-hmm. That's what I said. I was thinking the same. And you're like, how am I going to make it not sound like a lot? Well, we'll just do that. The extras that do differentiate this from your standard or pro model pinball machine, a power coat trim package, Invisiglass, lit interior art blades, and a cool effect, a lit backboard, RGBs that I think stand-up targets are design fillers, but these are at least RGB, so they change colors. So I would attribute, based on the mechs in this game and the stuff that's in this game, I can see the argument for saying this is an LE-level pinball machine compared to everything else LE-wise in the industry. Now, whether or not a lot of people are going to say, yeah, but I'm taking the money, and I'm comparing the money with the theme, with the IP of other comparable titles. I think that's where people's arguments will lie. Hmm, okay And there's no argument They also are touting this new Next generation electronic system They're calling Razorback Plus Electronic system, notable improvements On this new Razorback operating system Improved communication Bust for smoother action Enhanced master controller for trouble-free Long-term ownership New back box lighting PCB That has flashers and extension outputs For top or other added devices Flasher and mini beacons with special effects on the play field. I don't know what that means. Apron light. I know what that means, but I just don't know how it's relevant to this game. Apron lighting with strobing effects. End of stroke switches and flippers. I don't know. Alright, so new operating system. Got pictures of ABBA up when you've seen it for the first time. Thoughts?
    39:36
    Basic. Basic? Yep. Regarding layout? Layout. Okay. I agree. Doesn't seem nothing like knock your socks off. You've got two ramps. A third flipper is interesting. Yeah, the whole inner loop with the spinner, I mean, and again, I did not watch the YAMCAM of this, and I don't know if this is going to be like a warp ramp thing where you're easily able to just keep shooting that and that's really satisfying or not. That'd be cool. I can't tell from that, but I think that's what it's going for, which, yeah, that looks all right. I mean, the helicopter being front and center I think is nice, but as a shooter, it doesn't look inspired. I agree. But it might play better than Queen. Like, have you played Queen? I have. Like, the right half of Queen's okay and the left half is not, is how I kind of think of it. I'm kind of the same way when it comes to, like, Queen, there's nothing that makes me mad, but it's just like, okay, pretty basic. I'm not crazy about the upper play field. It's fine This one interests me more than the layout of Queen Because a lot of people are like Well, this is basically Queen I'm like, well no, it's the third flip No, you can't say it's Queen Because it's totally different But I can see some of the basic layout Makes it feel like a basic layout of Queen But it's certainly different What about the artwork? That looks alright See, I think so too Yeah, I know I don't like the one back box that I'm sure everyone hates. They're all in the white. Yeah.
    41:14
    But the one where they, when they've gone full on avatars. Yes. Whatever. The Valiant of Tower. Take their souls. That one's fun. And I like the play field all right. I mean, like, it's not going to win any awards. No, no. I think it's fine. I think it looks acceptable. I'm kind of okay with that Voyage edition. Like, you're on just a, just a badass trip, man. you're seeing like fucking salvador dolly shit going i'm looking for melting clocks and shit like i'm i if you're gonna bring abba and that's how you've got to do it i think it's probably the best way of doing it uh so i i kind of like it i kind of like it yeah but the one with them on white and white and there's this tab on the side it's like that one was that one is baby's first photoshop but you know what though like the artwork on the side of that cabinet i'm i'm still fine with. I think it's just the colors and the simplicity and the minimalist of it. I'm okay with it. I think it's pretty good. It's like one color more than the old Bally cabs that all just said Bally. I think the pinks and purples, I'm a sucker for that kind of stuff. You know what? I might have been okay with it until I have to see that big old R in the circle for registered trademark by ABBA, and it's like, no. It throws off the balance. But yeah, them in the white jumpsuits It's the guy on the far right that bugs me the most. It's because of how his leg's bent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a really enticing ending.
    42:44
    Oh, fucking ABBA, man. If you're going ABBA, like them and their white suits, I love it. Just love it. So that's the, yeah, the art, I wasn't angry at the art at all. I don't know what the code's going to be like. But I've got, if Schober's doing it, then it can't be bad. I've not heard anybody complain about the rules of Queen. Because no one owns it. Well, that's a good point. I think toys-wise, like, here's the thing. With this game, I'm being fully honest here. I thought ABBA was a horrible idea for a pinball machine. Still don't think it's a great idea.
    43:23
    But if you like ABBA, if I liked ABBA, I'm not mad. I just, I'm getting behind this just because it's quirky in a way that I like. No, I'm glad that you're not angry. Yeah. Maybe I play it and I'm not happy with it, but yeah. When you tell me ABBA and then you show me this, at least I breathe. Okay. I still don't think this sells well at all. Oh, no. No. This is, sorry, Timbo Brothers, but no. No, it's just, it is what it is. I don't think this sells well. Now, a little bit too early to say sales-wise from my end, from distribution. Probably. But people are buying it.
    44:07
    It's not been a great seller, but people are buying it. And at this point, I've already sold twice as many ABBAs than I have Barbecue Challenge, for what it's worth. Or more than twice as many. We're like four times. So, it's selling. And you know what? The people that are reaching out to purchase it, they're ecstatic that there's an Avapen being made. Like, they are big fans of this band. And it's bringing in a lot of females. I think probably 50% of those purchasing through Flippin' Out thus far have been maybe not female, but it's the primary buyers saying, hey, my spouse is female, and they're really into this. So that's why we're purchasing. So that's cool. I think that's about it. We think the theme is and the price is, that's a tough pill to swallow. You see, that's why I think the sales are going to struggle. It's just, it's, regardless of what's in it, it's just a big, that's a big price barrier to be basically at five figures, even for the quote unquote lower end model. Especially when the Ripley edition is only $79.95. Yes. And that's the thing. It's when you just look at Pinball Brothers' own catalog, time and time again, everything just comes back to comparing it to Alien and especially the Ripley edition, which is like the best version, and it's the most affordable one. Do you think, though, are they going to fall into the Jersey Jack Wizard of Oz issue going forward? Or everything's compared to that, everything's loaded like that, everything's priced, you know?
    45:40
    Possibly. I think the bigger concern I have for them is more what I think of when you say the Wizard of Oz example, which is are they going to keep going back to the well and just doing new versions of Alien? Because it's the only thing that's making them money. And I worry that that's a yes, regardless of the comparisons. But it's just the one game that moves. Yeah, that's a really good point. I'm worried about them going back in six months saying, we now have a $79.95 edition of ABBA.
    46:11
    That will hurt. Yes. Because it will hurt. And we've seen before, they are the one company willing to regularly, it seemed, lower prices. The only other company I know that ever did it really was American Pinball. When they launched Hot Wheels, they launched it cheaper than their other two games. But it was also notably less complicated. And as a dealer, I still have Alien limited versions.
    46:35
    And I would say that's because Ripley came out at $79.95. So I do worry about that. That's, I think, why dealers may be hesitant to inventory these as much as they'd like to. I also think the buying public is probably cognizant of that as well and wondering if they'd do that. Because they didn't say they weren't announcing an unlimited version. They're just saying that these two versions are both limited to 500 and 300 units. And that's another point to discuss. I like that they are pulling that number to a smaller subset of people. That is both limited versions here in totality are under 1,000 or 800 units. So I like that, but I still think it's high for this theme. I don't think you sell 800 units of ABBA. Maybe you do, but I don't see it. I really don't see it. But the one thing that I will say, which people may disagree with, is from a marketing and sales standpoint,
    47:42
    I think that coming out with, let's say, one of these models at $79.95 and the other at $10.995 or $9.995, I don't think you see a significant difference in sales by having that model that's $2,000 less than. Because of the niche IP here, I think it's probably wise of them to go $99.95 instead of $79.95. I don't think you get that many more people that's like, you know what, I'm going to take a flyer since it's only $79.95 instead of $99.95. I think that point is moot.
    48:18
    That could be. It's probably minimal if it does have an impact. Because if you've got somebody that's really wanting an ABBA, they're seeing $8,000 the same as $10,000. possibly I still think you overly generalize on how many people in this hobby that just aren't sitting on mountains of cash and $2,000 does make a difference to them I just think anything over $3,000 is like how much do you think I'm going to spend on a thing? to me that's a I get that and I do agree that that's probably a good tier in terms of a barrier for a lot of people where it's kind of like absolutely not to oh okay yeah it's on the table but there are plenty of people that might have, say, like, I got $7,000 that I can spend on fun, who don't go around saying I have $10,000 that I can spend on fun. I get it. I mean, $3,000, when you think of, I mean, just in terms of the context, and we're using the old CERN Pro average pricing, and we're talking about $3,000 as a factor out of the $7,000 that the Pro ends up being. I mean, what's the numbers on that? You're talking a 40% price increase. 40% though. Substantial, yeah. When said with real numbers, you know, with meaningful numbers, a lot of people can't just go up 40% on something. But how are we going to use real numbers when we are traveling through both space and time? Well, and that's what Pinball Brothers is probably relying on.
    49:45
    I kind of want to trip balls and play this game. I'm not going to. Do you think, because I'm hoping that Pinball Brothers can get Flippin' Out Pinball one of the first so that we can have Joel stream it. You think I roofie Joel?
    49:59
    That would be illegal, and I would advise against it. You think we talk Joel into taking a shroom or two before he streams?
    50:09
    He's such a good old boy. I don't think he's ever seen a mushroom. That would be illegal for Joel to take. Oh, yeah. Well, what's legal? Is there anything legal? Is LSD legal yet? Only in Nevada, right? Yet. You're very optimistic.
    50:23
    That means legal, like medically. I mean, people are, there's, yeah, I hear that. It's a thing. It is a thing. Trauma and stuff. It's a thing. Joel, I'm not asking you to take drugs, dude. Just chill out. But I'm not not saying you can't take drugs to play this game. I'm also not saying that I won't partner. Moving on, Nap Arcade reports that the two of the original founders of Pinball Brothers, Dennis, Roger Svanovic, and Kato Screed are no longer involved with the company. Neither have been part of the decision-making all the way back to January 2022, so two years ago. Yeah, a while. Yeah. Wow. With the official exit coming December 2023. Weird timing. They will still be in pinball, and they do even hint at a new endeavor coming into the future with them. Now, I know this is kind of old news. You covered it on EGP, but I still wanted to state it for our followers here that some Some of the original people with Pinball Brothers are no longer with them. Yes. Cool. Nobody cares. Hey, Dennis, before we go into the next topic, do you hear that? I don't know if you listen carefully. Is that a chopper of a space and time band? I'm a chopper. With an accordion? I don't like that picture, by the way, on the play field, the guy with the accordion. He's kind of giving a look like he's going to serial kill someone. Hey, because you as their avatar took their soul. You're my avatar. Okay, so what's the sound We didn't know, if you listen carefully You can still hear thousands of people Listening to this episode still They haven't turned it off like they did 149.5 That's really mean It's so true Speaking of I don't know why this came up And I don't know why this is the case But episode 148 of the Pinball Show Has surpassed nearly Every other episode in popularity is the titled Numbers Don't Why. Out of nowhere, this thing has become our second most listened to episode of all time. There were 63, 6400 listens. Well, I think it's driven by a couple of things. Now, first off, the last time, not the most recent last time, but the time before where I was on with David Dennis, it was the number one episode for TPS for like a year. I remember you were very upset and you would say that was because we had all the news because a whole bunch of stuff came out, but I think we were so good. So we deliberately did worse on the latest episode so that we didn't do that again. The other thing as a possibility I will acknowledge is listeners after hearing like 149.5 may have gone back to 148 to see if you had announced that you had quit.
    53:09
    And perhaps they were trying to get a confirmation about what was going on. But it wasn't like we didn't give away anything. We did some of the first impressions on Jaws, but we had been talking about it for episodes before that. It had already been released. There was maybe it drew people in for the Haggis pinball update thing that we put behind the members only, the paywall thing, possibly. They got them there initially to see what we said to lead up to it. The title itself, numbers don't lie, infer to the Princess Bride launch, so maybe it was that.
    53:41
    Interestingly enough, yeah, episode 148. And usually these things take, to be our biggest, most listened to episode, it will take a little bit of time, months, a couple months at least. Now, this one within a month or so here has already shot up to being one of the most popular ever. So I don't know the etiology behind it. I'm not sure. But I found it interesting. Just like I find Dutch pinball interesting. All right. So a lot of stuff moving around over in Dutch land. I bet 50% of people in America don't even know where Dutch is. Or what Dutch, you know. Another one, yes.
    54:21
    I probably could point them out on a map I don know the difference between astrology and astronomy So Dutch Pinball this last week or two announces a new sister company that they calling DPX which is short for an acronym for Dutch Pinball Exclusive or Experience Exclusive. I don't know. We don't know. What's the name of it? They're focusing on collectors. DPX. Focusing on collectors. Collectors. Limited edition high quality games aimed to cater to a niche market with exclusivity. Games will be limited to 500 or less of each title globally. First off, not really that much of a stretch, 500 or less. I don't think it's super exclusive, but okay. Is it enough to create a sister company? What are they doing over here? Melvin Williams is the name of the individual that's going to be leading DPX's design and engineering They're planning on, the rumor is, Alice in Wonderland I think they've announced Alice in Wonderland It's going to be the first title It's going to be under $15,000, like that's a feat So before we get into more specifics on this new sister company I'll ask you, Dennis Dutch Pinball creates the Big Lebowski Take 10 or so years in building them all They're coming to the end of them probably at the end of this year. Rumored to also be doing Alice in Wonderland, a small run, based on the failed John Papaduke foam core design, and then possibly back to the future later in this year. But now they're saying it sounds like Alice in Wonderland is going to be with the sister company. My question for you to explain to the audience is why?
    56:04
    Okay. Why a sister company? I don't understand the sister company part. I've tried to figure it out. I thought maybe it was to distance themselves from their name.
    56:18
    Well, because that would be the most logical. There's no reason why they could, like, you know, Stern does boutiques not very much anymore. Well, let me do another example. Stern has done custom builds, right? Like the whole thing they did with Primus and stuff, right? They don't do it under some weird name. They just do it under Stern. It's just a thing that they do. So they didn't need to do it for any reason other than clear demarcation. Maybe they've got different investors, like people coming in to help fund that, that need to get paid, and they didn't want to give up equity in Dutch Pinball. That would be another angle. But when I first heard it, I just thought they wanted to get away from the Dutch Pinball name because the Dutch Pinball name is pretty much mud. Well, and I didn't understand how they're like, well, this is aimed towards limited edition games, exclusivity collectors. I'm like, well, what the fuck was Dutch Pinball then? Like, I know you ain't selling a ton of Lebowski's, but, like, that's a whole home standard edition kind of pinball machine. Like, that's pretty niche as well. So the sister company thing made zero sense to me. But then I thought, well, maybe it's if and once they fail with this Alice in Wonderland, and maybe they push that away from their normal Dutch pinball company. But I see what you're saying as well. And upon learning more details of this, some of which probably don't need to be discussed here, I think you nailed it when you said that additional money may have been coming into this arena, and it made most sense to separate that to keep it nice and clean. I think this Melvin Williams may in fact have some money.
    58:01
    And a partnership, if you will, with Dutch Pinball makes some sense. We've got a vacant building across the way on their property that they rented out and called DPX.
    58:17
    It's just a weird move. It's a weird move unless this whole Melvin Williams bringing in a lot of money and wanting to do weird shit like Alice in Wonderland. That's the only way it kind of makes sense, though. That's what I'm going with. That's what I believe to be the case here. Otherwise, it's like, Barry, what are you doing? You don't need a sister company. It makes zero freaking sense. Right, right. I agree. So then that was fine and dandy. We were still very hesitant on this whole failed Alice in Wonderland because of a zombie yeti saying, no, don't associate me with this shit. I didn't create. I've only created this and this. And if they want to try to spread that thin and call it, they can call it what they want. But that was nothing. Don't go in on this. He was very adamant about that. So we were hesitant. And then this last week, they did something that I think is such a bonehead move. If they want this whole DPX thing to work, well, they didn't announce it. Nap Arcade finds out and announces that Melvin Williams from DPX ends up filing a trademark for Magic Girl, the old Magic Girl from J-Pop, and Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland, Raza, that Deep Root acted like they were going to do something with. They dropped out, went bankrupt. Then we thought Turner Pinball bought that stuff. But apparently now this Melvin Williams has it, And they're going to run with Magic Girl and Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland, Alice in Wonderland.
    59:51
    And I'm like, okay, so there's the kiss of death there. Everybody else that touches that, they die. And it's always ugly and nasty.
    60:02
    So answer me this, Dennis. Why? Why would you do this? Look. What? there's this there's a world Zach there's a world behind the mists beyond the Abbaverse and the Avatar the Abbaverse beyond all of it the souls of the singers that there are people kind of like maybe even how you might have sympathized years ago given your love of a number of the 90s J-pop games I'm the primary target here that look at those the Raza the Magic Girl, the Alice in Wonderland sketches, and just go, you know what? Those are beautiful. They deserve to exist. We can make it work. I mean, you have to remember, well, you don't have to, but folks, it would be helpful to remember that J-Pop and the way these looked worked so well for people that he was able to, in some instances, get money from folks for all three of those games when he hadn't put out a single one. Multiple occasions. And there are still people that, because of all that effort, it's like they don't want that effort to go to waste. They want to see it come to fruition. These are going to be huge collector items. I always think there's this huge understreak of greed for these things where people are like, it's going to be a collectible, and it's going to be an investment, and I'm going to be able to flip this for big money. Look at what happened with Big Bang Bar remake. This is going to be Big Bang Bar remake, but it's going to be J-pop, so it's going to look even better. and I think that out there in the Netherlands where, you know, they're going around, I don't know what they do out there, they fly kites. Do they have the wooden shoes? Maybe they've got the wooden shoes. They're doing all the Netherland-y stuff. They trip balls during the day and they cut open a bear and they stay inside. It looks not, I don't know why we're going like full-on Rob Roy slash Empire Strikes Back and hiding animals and stuff. But I think maybe what their logic is, is that they believe enough time has passed and there are enough new people in this hobby that won't know any better. That's the argument against. There's enough new people in the hobby that don't know what the fuck this is. Here's my argument. My argument is this. And if you have something else to say, sorry for interrupting. But here's the deal. I've figured it out. Deep Root convinced me that J-Pop stuff isn't intrinsically good. When they came out and said, we have a working Raza, they showed me and proved to me that that game fucking blows. That game sucks. So what was so intriguing? Well, a lot of it was the artwork.
    62:51
    And I am now convinced. See, people can grow, Dennis. And I'm one of those followers now. I'm convinced that it is a... Think, think, listen.
    63:03
    Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland. Think about that theme. That theme is worse than GTF. Objectively.
    63:15
    Galactic Tank Force has more charisma, more story promise. They've got more stuff going on than Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland. That's such a shitty theme. We just were indoctrinated to think that this is cool, this is rare, this is... And that was not the best artwork either. I think what makes more sense now, like, I don't want Raza. That's a stupid theme, and it's a game that I've seen shoot. It sucks. Magic Girl, it's artwork.
    63:46
    Alice in Wonderland, it's artwork. Why not do this, all of you people with shitloads of money? instead of taking a multiple-time failed product and trying to revitalize it, pay Zombie Yeti a shitload of money and have him do your own original theme. That's the only way an original theme is going to work in the first place. That's all you got to do. So much more money will be better invested in that situation. Just pay Zombie Yeti a shitload of money and have him do whatever, you know, fucking rabbits and applesauce, whatever it may be. but it's like an epiphany to me. I'm like, who the fuck wants a game called Retro Atomic Zombie Adventureland? That's horrible. That whole theme sucks. Well, remember, it didn't start as that. It was supposed to be Ben Hex Zombie Adventureland. It's just as bad. It's not worse. That's fine. But Magic Girl, we see it's the artwork.
    64:42
    Yeah, it's the art that's moving all of this. There's no other reason. But if you thought, like, when they said Alice in Wonderland, And I thought, man, be careful, guys. You're compromising the brand of Dutch pinball as a whole here. And then they said, are they though? But the nail in the coffin was then them saying, maybe it's a power issue. Maybe it's a I can fix this person. Maybe it's that. Like nobody else could succeed. It's that Robert Mueller, but I can succeed. But it's failure after failure after failure. But you have now compromised a lot of people's interpretation of your brand, even if you put an X behind it by saying, you know what? You thought Alice in Wonderland was something. Wait until you see Magic Girl and Raza. And, oh, by the way, Nap Arcade announces that they also secured the license to Capcom's Kingpin. Sure. Why not?
    65:36
    Well, those pinball circus folks dropped the ball on that one. Do you remember? I remember the translates. I remember. We have another Dutch pinball news via NAP Arcade. An anonymous source reached out to Jason Knapp to say that if Alice in Wonderland is a success, then the next likely game from DPX will be Kingpin or Big Bang Bar. Sure, why not? Throw Big Bang Bar in there, too. Now, take note, listener. This is an anonymous source through NAP Arcade, so it could literally be me typing and sending it to NAP Arcade. But nonetheless, I don't think Knapp would have included it if he didn't sniff something was viable attached to it. But I don't know. But, yeah, King Ping, Bing Bang Bar, all the failed John Papaduke stuff. Ah, here's a red flag. Here's a red flag. Pass them around, everybody. Here's a red flag. If you want a red flag, everybody want to wave them around? That's how I feel here. And then I thought Turner Pinball has these assets. Chris Turner. Apparently, Chris Turner sold these Deep Root Raza assets that he won in that whole settlement, sold them to this Melvin Williams and DPX. That's smart, actually, on his part. It was. He got rid of them. And he's like, man, if they're worth anything, I'll get some money out of them. But they were a curse. He got rid of them. Yeah, there's just so much baggage with this that, to me, it seems incredibly...
    67:10
    I think it's arrogant. I think it's very arrogant. It's like there's a power control. Right. And that's where, you know, as you mentioned, as I think on this, as I noodle on it more, because I want to lean towards just calling that this is a really stupid play. And it's, I don't believe in cursed stuff. So it's, I don't, you know, that this is like, it's unsalvageable. I don't think that's the perspective I go in. I know it's not the perspective I go into it with. Like, someone could make these games. But to me, it's always that Jurassic Park line. It's so busy figuring out if you could. You didn't ask if you should.
    67:41
    And they were never, like, you look at what Magic Girl as American Pinball parts supply J-Pop built turned out to be. You look at his Houdini he gave them. It's not, these are not going to shoot well. Now, maybe the most sympathy I would ever have is for the Alice in Wonderland because that basically had next to nothing done. Yeah. But still, the idea that you could, in this day and age, still think that you could attach your name to a J-pop product and expect to make money is very arrogant. Yeah. And it would be the sort of arrogance that I, as a consumer, will punish by not buying. And I was a believer because, and this should tell the listeners everything they need to know. I was a believer because I was the person who loved Circus Voltaire, who loved Tales of the Arabian Nights, who loved Theater of Magic. When people said they shot like shit, I told people they were wrong. I liked the way all of those. You were a double. You were triple. Pretty deep root. I remember we had a few discussions where I was just like, why are you still defending this guy and saying that someone, you'd be like he should get another chance in the industry. And I was like, no, he just took all these people's money and basically set up a pyramid scheme. Except the games that he had produced through Bally Williams, I liked. Even if people said they shot like crap, I disagreed with them. So I thought, I'm not going to listen to people when they tell me Magic Girl shoots like shit. I'm not going to listen to them when they tell me Raza shoots like shit. And then they were able to successfully make Raza. And I've seen the way it shoots. There's nothing to that game. There's nothing fun in that game. I saw the Magic Girl. Hell, I shot the Magic Girl at Expo. that was proof enough that I like sexy things, but not if they don't shoot good and not if they don't have coat and certainly not if there's things that make zero sense to me like Raza does. Alice in Wonderland, eh. But there was no metal applied to that design yet. That was construction foam. Yeah, foam core. And even if it being that construction foam core, the only reason it was sexy is because it was black and white. It was illustrated. It looked good.
    69:58
    Oh, I just fear. I fear so much for, no, I don't really care. But, man, yeah, I'm not a believer anymore. I'm a believer in Zombie Yeti. That's where I'm a believer, and I'll continue to buy his games, which I do. That's a proven entity. And, man, a listener, a friend of the show, Blueberry, a hobbyist, he's like a private investigator. He feels like an investigator. He's on Pim's side talking to Bill Brandes. I think so. Yeah, Pentasia from Pentasia. Yes, Bill Brandes. Saying, you know, going back and forth, commenting and trying to figure out how this Melvin Williams, why and how they get the rights to the J-pop games and all that. Now, remember, listener, I don't know enough about it, but Pentasia apparently had the rights to the J-pop stuff, the Magic Girls of the World and stuff like that. But then I read on Pennside, again, I don't know the truth behind any of this, but it's very interesting.
    70:54
    Bill Brandes, who's part of the Pentasia, claimed that they still technically have rights. They have the IP, the paid-for rights to that J-Pop IP stuff. He goes on to say in Pennside, quote, I've said it a million times, Pentasia bought all of the IP in games and everything he had, he being J-Pop, had in contract signed and witnessed by J-Pop and the people from Pentasia. The only way he got it back is if he delivered a, quote, fully working pinball machine to who he owed, end quote. Continuing the quote, obviously this would not happen, however.
    71:34
    Blobert, who I think he's referring to as Robert Mueller. Yeah, yeah, yes, that would be. Robert Mueller, if you recall, just stole it and threatened to sue Pentasia if they did a thing about it. At this point, I suggested, this is Bill Braden saying, I suggested to Pentasia that it is never worth getting into litigation in two instances. And then Bill Braden puts this in all caps. You never fight the government as they use your own tax dollars against you and have unlimited funds. I'd say that's probably pretty smart. And number two, never pursue legal action against lawyers, no matter how good or bad they are, because they all know how to get you to spend millions without getting anywhere. He goes on to say, they took that advice and decided in the interest of money that it was not worth the time nor the money since the games were a piece of shit anyway. All the subsequent bullshit was based off of everything, thinking Blobert, again Robert Mueller, owned the IP, which he did not. Clear enough? Now, I have no clue what the courts would say, but I can guarantee they are the ones that have the original IP bought and paid for. anyone else that have it after the fact because of Blobert stealing it, dot, dot, dot. Well, who knows how courts would deal with it, but in my humbling experiences in the court system to date is this. Signed contracts with money transactions with dates before anyone else, well, they usually stand up very, very well. That's as clear as I can be about Pentasia, end quote.
    73:06
    So he's saying, look, Robert Mueller stole all that from us. We have it in paperwork, sign and everything. I heard that. I remember it was probably from Bill online. I remember reading about that at the time where this was all coming up. But he didn't fight it then, which always sort of surprised me because, as this had noted, as you just said out loud, what I understand is they had it in writing. They had written contracts. So I would have thought that it wouldn't have been a challenging lawsuit to win. granted I'm not a lawyer and nothing I'm saying is to be construed as legal advice but that was my take was that Contessa had a very good case that they control the IPs it just goes to show you regardless of what Dennis and I think one of our opinions are it goes to show you of how big of a pain in the ass any of this IP is and will continue to be which is why I never understand why anybody would jump into any of this it'd be different if it was like the holy grail of stuff and it was a great design No, the designs are shit. The themes are shit. Who cares? Imagine the ego stroke if you were the one to bring it to fruition. No. Imagine. No ego stroke. My bigger ego stroke is teaming up with Zombie Yeti and coming out with the original theme. Nah, Stern teams up with Zombie Yeti like every year. Nah, not for original themes.
    74:23
    Well, that's because the original themes don't sell. Nor did J-Pop ever think they were going to sell a lot. No, he was going to do this. It was all going to be, it was the whole Big Bang Bar thing. That's all it's ever been is this. And y'all, all right. Listeners, Dennis here, listeners. Oh, wow. Dennis here. You guys, even though we're getting into luxury prices at this point with all these pinball machines, a lot of you guys, you don't have luxury expectations. It's all just limited. Limited edition. Limited exclusivity. And that's all. Well, I was thinking, it's been a while since I've read up on, like, what HEP, you know, high-end pens, what all they do. But it's like all they do and all J-Pop has is, hey, we're going to have this pretty art, and I'm going to sell, like, 15. No, I mean 20. No, I mean 30 games. And it's going to be super ultra rare. And that's all that anyone ever does. Where is the fancy pants, Zach? Let's ask a little bit, and the listeners as well, where are the, you know, like, gold-plated screws and hand-carved toys. Where's the real effort? Where's the handcraftedness? It's not been done. No. That would be the market. That's not what this is. This is a low effort. Let's just make it limited. Make it limited. Bravo. Wow. And take the only thing going for it, artwork, of which the artist wants nothing to do with nor wants it to even see the light of day.
    75:52
    Ugh. No. So that's why one may, arguably, you know, everyone needs to make their own interpretation. I don't want to make their own interpretation.
    75:59
    But I will say my opinion. And in my opinion, it would be morally wrong to buy these, so I will not.
    76:07
    That's a strong opinion. I wasn't going to buy them anyway, though, so it was easy for me to say. My summary would be, damn, Dutch, you had a good thing going. Sure, it took a decade. Did they? Sure, it took a decade. Ten years. Can we also, you know what, Dennis here again. Hold on. Can we stop patting them on the back for doing what they promised to do but taking 10 years to do it? I readily admit I completely miscalled that company, and I thought they were going to go out of business. But I still don't think that praise is really warranted when it takes 10 years to actually give someone something that they paid for a decade ago, and they were supposed to get within a few months.
    76:51
    That they were able to get those people satisfied is a good thing, but I don't view it as a praiseworthy thing. All they did was keep their business, basically their business agreement, but past any time any court would have ever, like, people might as well just litigate to get their money back, in my opinion. But I'm not praising them for this. I'm like, yes, they did the right thing, but it took so long that it was ridiculous. Yeah, but what I'm saying is. You got my danders up now. I was just cruising through these episodes. They create a cool product, and here I thought, you know, after 10 years, maybe we get it back to the future so they're smart and that they know. Oh, yeah, where's the back to the future? I guess that's mainline Dutch, not DPXPXPXPXPX. But then they talked, you know, the rumor was, Chris Filler was saying there's going to be 88 special limited edition. Well, is that DPX then? Is that DP? Is it DP? I don't... Well, they kept saying, like, daughter or sister company or something, so they must be running both brands.
    77:53
    Why not just rename to DPXPX? Yeah, you should have just got rid of all the... Well, the whole investor thing, I guess, but whatever. Why do you need it? I don't care. I don't want to see Back to the Future. I do. No. It's my only saving grace. It's not going to have zombie-yety art. I don't need it. Not if DPXPXPX does it. I have a feeling I'm going to have to make my own bags in the future. And I'll get the gold screw heads. What do you say? I think HEP actually nickel plates, gets nickel plated screws or something. Fancy. Yeah, no, there's all sorts of interesting like high end stuff you could really do if you really wanted to like lux it up. But no, we just stick in a bunch of LEDs and go look at how fancy this is. Wow, what an episode so far. Speaking of original themes, what about American Pinball's barbecue challenge? Oh, no. Okay, Barrios, Barbecue Towns, they're shipping. I heard you. I didn't hear you, but I heard your name come up on the Loser Kid Pinball podcast. I know, and why? Again, why? Well, you are a distributor. I thought we were past this. Shout out to our friends, Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. They had on Dave Fix from American Pinball and Steve Bowden, who does rules over at American Pinball. Good to always hear in the Loser Kid episodes when they get industry people on. I like that. Dave Fix went on to say, again, my favorite quote from Dave, he says all the time, quote, remember, we're a small company, which is now not a selling point. Do you think they're going to start putting that like on their posters? They should. They should lean into what is so crazy that becomes almost enjoyable to consume. Remember, we're just a small company here.
    79:36
    Goes on to say it's about a 15-person team that they are, quote, building and coming up with the concept of the game. So 15 people. Okay. Well, that's still a fairly crowded conference room, though, especially if they're all involved with working on the concept of the game. I mean, that's very designed by committee if 15 people are coming up with it. I wasn't even going to bring up any of this interview. Well, but I did because it was important. It's important that we know. Strange that our buddy Dave Fix was indicating that podcasters are calling for both his demise and death. I'm not exaggerating, people. That was his exaggeration, I'm hoping, saying that there are podcasters calling for his death. Nobody will see that. I was the one who thought. When I heard it, I thought he was saying that podcasters had predicted that he had died. Oh, I'll have to go listen to that. Which, again, I don't listen to a lot of shows anymore, so that was news to me, because I thought, well, he appeared very much alive at Texas Pinball Festival and stuff, so I was a little confused, so maybe I'm the one who just misheard. Did you talk to Dave Fix at TBS? No, I didn't. Actually, I'm trying to think if I talked to anyone with American Pinball. I did not. I saw Dave Fix there. I saw Steve Bowden there, but I think they were always in, you know, I don't interrupt other people's conversations, because I'm a nobody. And if you want to hear Dennis Creasel's experience with the barbecue challenge, go listen to the latest BBQ Athletic Gamers podcast. Spoiler alert, he got us a turd.
    81:15
    That's so mean, but relatively accurate. Who was it that just messaged me? It was another podcast or a video person that they were talking about feeling awkward playing it at, what was it, either Pembrew or MGC this last weekend, they said man I just felt really awkward because the videos of the different meats and stuff it just made me feel kind of icky Yes Yes I think the way I described it is that those meat videos could have been dropped right over in Spooky Texas Chainsaw Massacre I'm sure it's supposed to come across as delectable. I don't know. But it's creepy. Because all you see is, like, sauce squirting in from the side. and just like hitting this part of the meat that just seems like it's dripping and so and it's just like sitting there rotating. No, it's not like that. It's not like there's no avatars going there's none of that. That's what I told this person.
    82:19
    It's more sensual to me. No, it's not. You have to hear it with the audio to know that it's not sensual. You see the fingers like fingering the moist meat and stuff like that, and then there's juices. Holy shit. I like to cover my kids' eyes. The way I make it sound makes it sound far more appealing than it was. It's just the way it is, I don't know if it's like the gain on the screen or what, but it's like with the lighting, but it just comes across as sinister. They should license some Barry Wyatt music. I just, no, I didn't really enjoy playing. I mean, it's not like a bad shooter per se. Like, there's nothing, you didn't feel overly clunky or anything. Maybe Barney 2 Chowns likes it rough. I thought the saucers, the kind of space shuttle saucer lock things, those worked pretty well and stuff. And the rules were probably decent enough, but it seemed like a long player. And it just, anyway, I didn't enjoy it. Basically, Dave Fitch on this podcast said, don't believe everything you hear on some podcast. He said, quote, we've killed a lot of rumors about his, quote, earthly demise. Yeah, that's a confusing term. And in the same sentence, he follows it up with, and by the way, some podcasters might say one thing. This is a direct quote. Might say one thing, but like you said, and then tee hee hee, he giggles. Zach Minney and Nicole, they have ordered barbecue games. So how about that? When will Joel be streaming it? How about that? He went on to tell people that they can buy games from Flippin' Out Pinball because we have ordered games. Oh. Dave Fix, I appreciate that plug. Unfortunately.
    84:07
    I see what he's doing. Tee hee, unfortunately. He's saying, take that, Zag Manny. You ordered games, so how are you going to talk shit? Do you not think you're reading too much into it? No, I know Dave Fix. Okay. because I don't. He tried to text that he was going to sue me, Dennis. No. All he said was tortuous, interference, question marks, emoji, smiley. I don't know what he sent you exactly.
    84:32
    It wasn't about touching his moist brisket. I can tell you that much. So, yeah, he is right. We did order some. So I can buy one? So if I changed my mind and I was like, you know what? I'm wrong. I actually liked it. I can buy one from you. Absolutely. And I would get it today. I would encourage anybody that wants to buy one, we'll be happy to get you one. However, numbers don't lie. I only report the facts. Unfortunately, at this point in time, numbers-wise, it is the lowest-selling product in the existence of our company. But having said that, you never know. It could jump up the old charts here over the next year or so. I don't believe it will. Once it gets to 1.0. We have not inventoried any right now, no. We had a couple customers that wanted to give it a whirl. But I appreciate Dave Fitch at least giving us a shout-out on Loser Kid. Craig Bobby's saying that Pinball News is reporting that Dennis Nordman is no longer speaking of American Pinball. Poor Dennis Nordman, no longer a full-time employed AP. He's just going to serve as a consultant if they do ever decide to go in and build that rumored Whitewater 2.
    85:39
    Whitewater 2. Oh, no! It's the greatest game to ever have existed other than maybe the original whitewater. I use twice as much plastic and three times as much water.
    85:52
    Yukon Yeti could have saved Deep Root, but I'd never get an engineer. I am the Keith Canary in the coal mine, so my departure should maybe be weighed very carefully in relation to the very possible earthly future of the American animal. Tee hee. Tee hee hee hee hee. Nordman is going over to DPX. DPX, PX, BX, PX. I will fix it. I can fix Alice in Wonderland. I can do it. I've had to fix so much of J-Pop's shit over the years. J-Pop merely inherited the phone core, but I was born on it, forged by it.
    86:32
    Alice in Wonderland will fold up into a tea party. But only on the deluxe model. I'm sold If that's the case I will buy one of those games The key party What are we going to do with Nordman being gone If I ever learned anything In my long and illustrious career In pinball It is that There's always another company desperate for my guidance Lurking in the shadows Oh, okay. My ribs hurt. I got to catch my breath there. Man.
    87:17
    I told them not to squirt the barbecue juices from the side like this was some sort of cheap porn. But they didn't listen. Tom and Eddie cannot save what that has become.
    87:31
    Why are their hot rods in with the barbecue, but they're only in the artwork, and they don't show up anywhere else? Why is the pig driving the car, Rob? Is the pig the good guy, or is he the food? We're not clear. Why is there corn on the playfield, but not a poop corn monster abomination?
    87:50
    Sully. Or no, what was his name? Suey. Speaking of Suey, UPX needs you, Suey. I've got tears in my eyes. This is the industry that we cover, Dennis. What is going on? I think this bit has gone on too far, and there will be complaints on Ben's side. No, they've got to pay for more. I think that the only thing that American Pinball could have done, original theme-wise, for me to be interested in was Whitewater 2.
    88:19
    Well, maybe they're going to do it eventually. Suggesting on Pinside, rumors are saying the bill of materials was too high for this. Just strip it down. Take Sterway out of it. I don't think you should strip any of it down. That's what DPX is going to do. Go over to DPX and build it. They do original themes from Bally Williams, the failed Bally Williams attempts, And, yeah, to do that. I don't know. I just don't know. Okay. So I think I heard this from Chris Coolers on Canadian Pinball Podcast. He was talking about some of this stuff, too, and saying that up next then would be Ryan McQuaid with a possible rumored Cuphead game, the licensed game, possibly by Chicago Expo time in the fall. Are you ready, Ryan? Are you ready for all of this? You know, I was at the Louisville Arcade Expo a week or so ago, and they were playing on one of the projectors, Cuphead, Mm-hmm. Damn, what a beautiful game. Oh, it took them a long time to make it because of that. Just a phenomenal game that I was standing there with a guy. I forgot who I was standing there with. Charlie. Shout out to Charlie. I don't know if he listens to podcast, but I told Charlie, I said, honestly, if AP doesn't just really fuck it up, I think I could probably get behind Cuphead. Like, it's one of those things I don't think is a great thing for pinball if I'm, as a dealer, me trying to sell a lot of games. But, like, personally, selfishly, I could probably get behind it. I really like the visuals of that and the storyline. I like that. We've got so much more to cover but so little time, so I say we do this, Dennis. I say we talk about the new Pedretti stuff that people are talking about. How about the Haggis stuff? You know, it made an appearance at Texas Pinball Festival. Chicago Gaming Company and what the production timeline is looking like for Pulp Fiction. Some spooky pinball. I got a Looney Tunes this last week. I'm just saying. Jersey Jack pinball? Are they making the Matrix? And what's on their line right now? Barrels of Fun? How their production timeline's going? And much more. We should do all of that for exclusive club members of the pinball show. Okay. You know what? And for David Dennis, that bonus content is simply going to be titled Episode 150.5.
    90:30
    So if you want to hear all that, All you've got to do is go subscribe to the Pinball Show Club membership on Patreon. It's patreon.com slash thepinballshow. You'll love it. I promise. Or maybe you won't. I don't know. But we're having a lot of fun over there. And it helps support the show, which we very much appreciate. There's some really big supporters of this show, so much so that they're in their own elite club. That club is called the Screaming Goat Club.
    90:54
    On each and every episode, we say thank you to each one of those members. They subscribe at $100 a month to support the pinball show, and they are very much appreciated. They get all the perks of our $10 official membership, which is greatly appreciated. $10 membership, you get the Discord interaction. You get the exclusive content that everybody wants. You want to go get it. Then you bump up to the $25 level Nordman. That's right, the canary in the coal mine. $25 a month, you get all that. Plus, you get perks like a decal. You get to choose topics. You get the live happy hour hangout every month. And then the Screaming Goat Club members get all of that, plus private correspondence with Dennis and I, their own nickname, Paywall Polo. Members, guess what? That son of a biscuit is going out this week. You all will be getting your Paywall Polos. And, Dennis, you had to do the final approval of the design and everything. Pretty nice, aren't you? It turned out pretty fun. I think so, too. I will proudly wear one. I'll tell you this, listener. I will proudly wear one on non-pinball things. Yeah, the design is actually very conservative. So you can wear the shirt in a lot of places. It's not going to be one that says, oh, this is only for pinball. It could be subtle enough that it might be a conversation starter, too. It's like, oh, yeah, I know the La Costa thingy or whatever it's called with the gator symbol. And I know the little polo player for Ralph Lauren. What's this brand? Is that right? Lovely, very lovely. So thank you to everybody who supports us on Patreon through the club membership. It helps us a lot and keeps us motivated and fired up to provide you what we have provided for the last four-plus years, which is the most popular and beloved pinball podcast on the planet. That might not be after this eclipse, but until then. Thank you, Rodney, or who we call just simply the Bobcat. We appreciate your continued support of the pinball show. Oh, shoot that fucker! Thank you, Steve Jablonski. Bumblebee.
    93:05
    Thank you so much. Thank you, Rob. We appreciate it, Panther. Thank you, Frank. Caw-caw back to you, my friend. Ooh, Frank's got a new game coming to him. Oh, my God, Frank's, I think, got a couple games coming to him. Good ones, too. Dave, thank you so much, Dave. We appreciate it, and I'm still loving your Lord of the Rings.
    93:28
    I got my Lord of the Rings from him. Joe, appreciate your love and support and your moist meat. Sorry, Joe.
    93:40
    Charlie, appreciate you as well. Ding, ding, dong, ringle, ding. And William, the dude. What's this day of red shit? What's this bullshit? I don't fucking care. It don't matter to Jesus Thank you so much William for the continued support And I cannot wait to hang out with you guys next On one of those happy hour hangouts As well as the other Screaming Goat Club members At the beginning of this show Dennis I felt like an outsider I felt like you know I came back into the studio here And forgot what it smelled like I forgot what it looked like The one thing I did not forget Is what it sounded like If you listen closely, it sounds a little bit like... Pinball Market Trends! Woo! That's a one pinball!
    94:34
    I like your style, dude. Somebody said on social media here recently, one of my flipping out advertisements, they simply said, damn it, I could hear him yell those words. Welcome to Pinball Market Trends. Training up this week, objectively, is Elton John. Cool kids just call it EJ, baby. Elton John, they can't keep up with production now. Shit, what happened? Nobody wanted this game. Now everybody wants this game. What was the little darling at TPF?
    95:02
    Oh, you didn't go to TPF. Oh, you're asking me? Yeah. I thought it was rhetorical. No, I got you. I heard two games. I heard EJ and Labyrinth. That's what everybody was talking about. Yes, yes. That's true. I mean, Elton John didn't really surprise me because it looked like it was going to play pretty well. But I really, like, I preferred it over Labyrinth. Yeah, and I've been playing a hell of a lot of Elton John lately, just personally. Like, it is a blast of a game. And here's the thing. I was even straight up with JJP. I'm a little hesitant to inventory y'all's games just because the market and the history.
    95:37
    Don't hate the dealer. Hate the game, baby. And now, licking a little bit of crow tail, your boy's trying to inventory some of these games. just because they're selling so well. Now, P.E.s right now, the Platinum Edition, they're making C.E.s. But P.E.s are going to be the end of May. Right now, placing an order, flipping out pinball, you can get one at the end of May. We have some on order. But C.E.s, you can still order the C.E.s as well. So put in your order on those. I think they're still making those. They'll roll out in the next two to four weeks. So get yours today. But Alton John, damn, that is a game that just sticks to your ribs. It's a good one. also turning up this week. I have to. It's Foo Fighters. The final code, this 1.01 code, people are falling in love with. I would recommend you guys go watch Don't Panic Flip. George's recent streams of that have been phenomenal. And you have the accessories now that help to boost the stock of this, the Love Stern game. So you get the topper now. You got expression lighting for the premiums. You got brand new code where I guess some little robot tells you what to do and people love that. The game is already great. I've heard it's even greater now and we're seeing sales reflect that as well. Also training up this week. I've been gone long. Don't hate on me, people. It's Jaws. We talked about it earlier. It's just because it's just what the people are buying. I'm going to report to you what people are buying more of than anything else and people are buying Jaws. And it's mixed still. People love the pro. You think everybody loves a premium? People love the pro too. So go out and get your Jaws today if you haven't already. Alwyn, you know what you're doing, brother. You know what you're doing. And also turning up this week is something that Dennis probably has no idea what this means. In our show notes, it simply says Dennis AI.
    97:26
    Any idea? I'm not trying to replace you, Dennis. Well, after 149.5, that might not be so hard. Man, that was, what the fuck happened? I still think it's very clever, but it's not for you. Cleverness is not for everyone. I don't know what that was. Clever is not the word that's popular. Hey, you don't have to worry about it. Don't you worry your little head about it. We're doing potato chip podcasting. Dennis, AI, is training up this week. And what I mean by that is if you guys haven't listened to the last episode of the Eclectic Gamers podcast, Dennis talks about a little story. I won't give it away. But it ends up him singing in the shower the radio head's song Creep. It was comical. Everybody loved it. It was a good story. So I won't give it all away. But go back and listen to that. But what was funny is we had one of our friends at the show reach out to me and said, you want to know something even more funny? We got the visualization when Dennis talked about singing Creep in the Shower. But play this for your listeners. Maybe this will help illustrate the story even better. And I hate AI. I don't like the artwork and the six-fingered bullshit. I don't like any of that. But when AI can replicate one of my best friend's voices in a way that's so perfect, you hear it now, listener. I give you Radiohead's creep by an AI version of Dennis Creason.
    99:01
    You were here before. Couldn't look you in the eye. You're just like an angel. Oh, my God. Your skin makes me cry.
    99:11
    You float like a feather. It's pretty cool how AI can do that, though. I wish I was special. You're so fucking special.
    99:21
    But I'm a creep. I'm a weirdo. What the hell am I doing here? I don't belong here. Well, Dennis, what do you think about that, huh? It's pretty creepy.
    99:37
    Perfect. It's perfect. Man, how did AI capture your... That's scary. Well, I'm assuming they can just send samples, and they've got like, what, I don't know, 20 days worth of Dennis audio to work from? Wow.
    99:53
    That's scary stuff. Yeah, so that's why I can't use any voice-activated security systems and stuff, because I'm too easy to... Yeah, I'm too easy to be bypassed at this point. So, training up is definitely the AI version of Dennis singing Creed.
    100:11
    So fucking special. Unfortunately, training down this week is Pirates of the Caribbean CE. Yeah, but it's Pirates. Yeah, but it's the CE. Look. Where's the final wizard mode? 2023, last year, they were 32,000 all day. That's just what they were. That's what they were selling for. But here in 2024, times are changing And right now we've got two on Pennside But the average right now, value-wise, for a CE Pirates of the Caribbean on secondary market $27,000 to $28,000 That is a significant dip I think people are just forgetting about it They're like, eh But I think the market in general is fluctuating So you see these really big priced items fluctuate even more You really can't lose much on a Toyota Corolla when it's not that much to begin with, right? All's turning down this week is Barbecue Challenge.
    101:07
    Yeehaw. Look, American Pinball, it's not you. And it's not me. I'm not even going to blame it on me.
    101:14
    It's just where we're at in this relationship. I love you. But am I in love with Barbecue Challenge?
    101:21
    You know, I'm looking forward to Cuphead, if that's a thing. I was looking forward to Whitewater, too.
    101:28
    But just know, this isn't me, dealer, Zach. This is me, podcast, Zach. I got to keep it real with these people. Numbers don't lie. I only report my sales. Oops, I mean the facts. Oh. All's trending down this week is the idea of David Dennis making another hosting appearance anywhere near this fucking podcast. No thanks. At this point, I'm just, should we just ban all Canadians from this show? Because, wow, he ruined it for the whole country. Dave, I don't know what that was. It was akin to touching moist meat on an LCD screen. It was bad.
    102:06
    And all of the training down this week to conclude this segment is mixing your toothbrush up within the same bag of other toiletries when traveling. Have you ever done this? No. I'll never learn. I will never learn. I just want it all to be in one big old Ziploc, the big Ziploc bags. And I put it all in there. And then throughout the entire week on vacation, I just taste the rich sandalwood in my mouth because they get in the head of the toothbrush. I don't know why I don't learn. And here's the thing. I don't know, listeners, if you can relate, but if you've done that, are you like me where I'm so hard-headed, I could just take off the head and just put a new head on? Lord knows I probably should have replaced that more often than I do anyway. But I'm hard-headed, and I just want to keep pushing through until I get rid of that taste of body wash or shampoo or beard oil or whatever it is. I smell like Yellowstone, Dennis. But, yeah, tasting sandalwood on my toothbrush and being too hard-headed just to replace it. You have one of those weird 80s plastic head covers for years or something? It goes in a whole container It's a two-piece piece of plastic That the toothbrush puts in It's like a tube, but it's a rectangle It's small enough that my shave kit is big enough That I can just put it in the key So it's zipped into my nylon kit And the toothbrush is segregated from everything else Hotels have soap and stuff You don't need to bring all that other crap I do not use the hotel stuff. Come on. My skin is like a supple cap.
    103:57
    No. You got to Kobe beef massage my... No. I use the good stuff. I'm not using the fucking Hilton brand. No.
    104:08
    Pinball Bounty still looking for that Radical in that Congo? It would be greatly appreciated. Hey, you already had Radical. It's just I want a mint one. Send it to him. Send it to him It's going to be better than any other mint one you're going to get And as always people I'm just here to report the facts Maybe WX will remake it Numbers don't lie And neither do I On pinball or in trees Ka-ching Let's close it down Dennis Where can people catch you? You can always email me at Unless it's about episode 149.5 I don't want to hear it So fucking special You can reach us at thepinballshowatgmail.com Follow, like, and subscribe to our socials Facebook, Instagram Get on our Discord by joining our club membership It's only $10 a month Or if you want to be loved a little more It's $25 a month Or if you really want us to kiss your asses It's $100 a month And by kissing your asses I don't mean Dennis will Because he won't Whether you pay $10 or $100 I will I'll butter your corns Straight in the middle to go follow like some changes coming up there are you finally doing the rubber band episode i don't know what we're doing over there sponsor of this podcast go ahead what do you like no nothing never mind i don't want to talk about it sponsor this podcast is flipping out pinball when i buy my pinball From Topper's, I've got it. When I take a pinball, I can flip it out. Flip it out. When I fly, fly, fly, I fly from flipping out. Fly, fly, fly. Product showcase this week is Jaws. Pros, premiums. You want it? You want free shipping? It's yours. We're givers. Abba, if you want that, pre-order it. We've got some pre-orders over. Fly, fly, fly. Foo Fighters Topper in stock. Thank you, sir. Buy, buy, buy. Expression lighting? A little bit of weight. Star Wars Pro and Premium. Godzilla Pro and Premium. Jurassic Park Pro and Premium. Buy, buy, buy. All in stock. Venom's in stock. James Bond's in stock. Foo Fighters. Iron Maiden. Stranger Things. Buy, buy, buy. And if you want the other games that are pre-ordered right now, big pre-orders for us right now, Labyrinth, get on the list for one of those. Elton John's. I was about to slip an upcoming game. That was about to come out, so I'm glad I didn't do that. I don't want to edit that out. But tune into our Patreon Club membership. Maybe you'll hear some stuff there. We have all the other good stuff, stuff for your games and shakers and different things. Also, right now I'm telling you this. Go follow, like, and subscribe to Flippin' Out YouTube and Facebook. All of our used games for Flippin' Out I put on Facebook. I don't have time to put them on the website because by the time I put them on the website, they sell. So they get on Facebook. We always have a list pinned at the very top What current games we have in stock Used and new So go there And if you don't have a Facebook account Open one It's super simple You don't have to like Facebook Just do it for Flippin' Out with friends Are you a friend of Flippin' Out? You actually are Because you've been on Sometimes Yeah, you've been on streams with Joe When he does talk streams I think he's doing a talk stream this week Last couple weeks It's been Star Wars Premium Ooh, Dwight Sullivan even in chat On some of it Thank you, Dwight. All right, let's teach these people something.
    107:33
    DVX. Oh, no. This is the norm, man. You need to listen to me. I have ideas. I have whitewater ideas. You don't need to be farming this jade pop stone. You could actually go with a winner. A winner who understands the value of plastic ramps and the value of flow and the value of a Yeti or two. It just depends on how much bill of materials I'm allowed to work with. But don't turn to the dark side. Come to me. I am the cave canary in the coal mine. I love Nord, man. I'll stick to that and always practice safe pinball. And if you guys seen what I saw back in the day when I saw some pictures from Deep Root and Whitewater 2 or Uconieta or whatever it was supposed to be, I don't know if they were going to use that for the new American pinball thing, but there was like this cute little mine cart that would carry the ball, transport the ball across the play field. It was really cool, and hopefully they use that for DPX's rendition of Whitewater 2. If not, then we'll always just ask. Maybe that's why the bill of material is so high. I'm ranting now because it's been so long since I've been on here. What the hell is 149.5? My Laura! I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul.
    108:38
    I want you to notice me when I'm not around. No fucking way. I wish I was special. But I'm a weirdo.
    108:50
    I'm a weirdo.