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George Gomez discusses Pinball design.

Dead Flip·video·1h 36m·analyzed·Oct 18, 2019
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.034

TL;DR

Stern's George Gomez discusses pinball design philosophy, development process, and Deadpool as a case study.

Summary

George Gomez, Chief Creative Officer at Stern Pinball, delivers a comprehensive presentation on pinball game design philosophy and process. He discusses Stern's market position (90% of world pinball market, 300 employees), the multidisciplinary design teams (14-month development cycle), and uses Deadpool as a detailed case study to explain theme selection, mechanical features, software integration, and iterative development. Gomez emphasizes the importance of licensing, team collaboration, and balancing accessibility for casual players with depth for competitive ones.

Key Claims

  • Stern Pinball has approximately 90% of the world pinball market

    high confidence · George Gomez states directly: 'we probably we have about 90% of the world market in pinball'

  • Stern manufactures and exports 50% of its products globally; the other 50% go to home enthusiasts and commercial operators

    high confidence · Gomez: '50% of our products today, go into the home worldwide. And 50% of our products are in commercial operations like barcades and bowling alleys and movie theater lobbies'

  • Stern employs 300 people in its factory; extended vendor network employs approximately 15,000 Americans

    high confidence · Gomez: 'We employ 300 people in our factory. Our extended enterprise of vendors probably employs another 15,000 Americans'

  • Pinball game design takes approximately 14 months from start to finish

    high confidence · Gomez: 'The games take about 14 months to design, and so it's a long, arduous process'

  • Limited Edition games at $8,500 sometimes sell out in less than an hour (15 minutes in some cases)

    high confidence · Gomez: 'These, by the way, sell out. That's an $8,500 game and they sometimes sell out in less than an hour. We've had them sell out in 15 minutes'

  • Original themes are no longer financially viable; distributors prefer licensed IP

    high confidence · Gomez: 'Original themes are really tough to do today. And they're tough from a business standpoint... Original themes, unfortunately, because of the way the world has gone where everything is licensed, are not financially viable for us today'

  • Every piece of content in a game requires 100% licensor approval

    high confidence · Gomez: 'Every game gets 100% licensor approval. That means the licensor, they can say no to anything. Every iota of content that you create gets approved'

  • The Beatles pinball machine features nine Beatles songs due to licensing approval conditions set by George Harrison's widow

    high confidence · Gomez: 'George Harrison's widow said, there isn't a George song in the game... So where I'm going here is we've got a very short period of time... we needed nine songs... you've got to pay for that'

Notable Quotes

  • “We're the largest manufacturer of pinball machines in the world... probably on any given day, we probably we have about 90% of the world market in pinball.”

    George Gomez@ 0:49 — Establishes Stern's dominant market position and scale

  • “I've spent 40 years designing things that no one needs, but they kept me employed.”

    George Gomez@ 16:39 — Humorous reflection on Gomez's career in entertainment/leisure product design

  • “The first rule of pinball is keep the ball in play. The games must have rules. If a game doesn't have rules, it's not a game.”

    George Gomez@ 33:35 — Core design principle for pinball mechanics

  • “I have to entertain the novice and I have to entertain Jack... the challenge of entertaining the novice is that the novice is going to do what the novice is going to do.”

    George Gomez@ 34:42 — Design philosophy balancing casual and competitive play

  • “It's all about easy to learn, hard to master.”

    George Gomez@ 9:04 — Fundamental game design principle repeated throughout talk

  • “The reality is it takes a design team. The teams are multidisciplinary... Everyone on the team makes a creative contribution.”

    George Gomez@ 16:49 — Emphasizes collaborative nature of modern pinball design

  • “When you sit down to make these things, now that we've got the LCD display, we have to decide what are we doing and what fits... we really need to understand what you're making.”

Entities

George GomezpersonStern PinballcompanyDeadpoolgameStar WarsgameThe BeatlesgameJeremy Packerperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern dominates global pinball market with ~90% share, manufactures in-house at scale (300 employees, 110k sq ft factory), and maintains strong international distribution network exporting 50% of production

    high · Gomez: 'We're the largest manufacturer of pinball machines in the world... we probably we have about 90% of the world market in pinball... We employ 300 people in our factory... extended enterprise of vendors probably employs another 15,000 Americans'

  • ?

    community_signal: Stern maintains fan engagement through factory tours (no advance notice required), celebrity partnerships, and direct responses to fan art and letters; documented positive impact on younger generation players discovering pinball

    high · Gomez: 'You can just call us and stop by and see us build pinball machines... I get these from fans, right? I get these from people all the time... And his parents were thrilled. But the fact they were thrilled that we responded I was blown away'

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Gomez emphasizes 'easy to learn, hard to master' as core design principle; deliberately designs for both casual novices and expert players; uses theme-to-features-to-playfield-to-rules progression as systematic design methodology

    high · Gomez: 'I have to entertain the novice and I have to entertain Jack... It's all about easy to learn, hard to master'

  • $

    market_signal: Younger demographic (20s generation) represents fastest-growing audience segment for pinball; players attracted by unique physical experience unavailable on mobile/digital platforms despite virtual versions existing

    medium · Gomez: 'The largest growing segment of our audience is in their 20s, because they're playing a game that they can't play anywhere else. They can't play it on their phones... By the way, there are virtual versions. We have digital partners'

Transcript

youtube_groq_whisper · $0.288

0:00
So, and really we just want to have a good time and if you have questions about something, you know, feel free to jump in. There's this crew right here are guys from my development studio and a combination of different disciplines, which we're going to talk about today, some mechanical engineers, some software engineers. and so we'll get right into that. So if you can bring out my presentation, I will get started. So we're an American manufacturer and in 2019 we're an American manufacturer that exports 50% of our product all over the world and I'll show you a little bit about that. We're the largest manufacturer of pinball machines in the world. We make, we probably on any given day, we probably We have about 90% of the world market in pinball. And we make a diverse collection of games based on premium brands in various price points. And you see some of the premium brands here. I've thrown up some of the brochures from those particular games. We sell the products through a dealer and distributor network to commercial operators, enthusiast collectors, and rec room buyers. So that means that people, probably 50% of our products today, go into the home worldwide. And 50% of our products are in commercial operations like barcades and bowling alleys and movie theater lobbies.
1:41
We have really strong licensing relationships because we're a little company. These licensing relationships allow us to broaden our power. This is the floor of the Chicago Auto Show in 2014 when they introduced the, it was the 50th anniversary of the new Mustang and we partnered with Ford. And Ford gave us, this is incredibly premium real estate. This is the biggest auto show in the world. So if you can imagine, and I of course was on the floor when this little guy was having his turn with the machine and I just couldn't, I mean, I was like, yes, this is why we do what we do. So, we have all kinds of hardcore fans. This is the gentleman with the guitar is Mark Tremonti, previously lead guitarist of Creed and currently with Alter Bridge. He was in town last week. He invited me to a show at the Chicago Theater and then he came over to the factory and he played some Deadpool pinball. He invited me backstage and all he wanted to do was talk about pinball. He didn't want to talk about anything else. Over there, our good friend Ed Robertson, lead singer of the Barenaked Ladies, has 25 pinball machines. Also comes to see us all the time. That is Gaga and Tony Bennett playing a Aerosmith pinball, Las Vegas, backstage. And they posted that photo. We didn't take the photo. They were very proud that they were playing. And then, of course, there's Steven Tyler signing the game for a fan. That's Adam West, the late Adam West. and myself at Pinball Expo the year that we did Batman Pinball. The Metallica guys are huge fans. We made them a pinball machine. They put us on their website. And they have 30 million visitors a day to their website, which pushed those 30 million visitors a day to our website, which crashed our website for a week and a half. My IT guys had no idea what was going on. They thought it was a Russian attack. And then of course, the late James Gandolfini, who is also a fan with his game. I could show you these kinds of pictures. Celebrities are way into pinball. I don't know. There is something in the water. Guys that play the guitar and pinball. There is a lot of rock and roll guys love pinball. So as I said, we manufacture and ship the product all over the world. That's a game going in the box in the factory. These are labels off our boxes. And look at that. You say, I don't know if you can read that, but I'll read it for you. Italy, England, France, Australia, Germany, Norway, Austria, Belgium, China, Denmark, Canada, Spain. I could go on. I've seen Dubai, Russia, you name it.

George Gomez@ 10:49 — Addresses modern pinball design challenges with digital screens

  • “These, by the way, sell out. That's an $8,500 game and they sometimes sell out in less than an hour. We've had them sell out in 15 minutes.”

    George Gomez@ 22:04 — Demonstrates strong collector/premium market demand

  • “I like to tell the teams, give me a two-sentence description of what this thing is... Assemble the rebels and destroy the Death Star. John Williams' music plays, Darth Vader speaks, TIE fighters and X-Wings dogfight. Done. I got it.”

    George Gomez@ 26:02 — Shows Gomez's approach to distilling complex IP into concise game concepts

  • “Rob Liefeld, who created the character in the 90s, saw our art and called him up and said, oh my god, you knocked it out of the park.”

    George Gomez@ 21:05 — Validates artistic quality of Stern's Deadpool game design

    • Rob Blakeman
    person
    Rob Liefeldperson
    Mark Tremontiperson
    Ed Robertsonperson
    Steven Tylerperson
    James Gandolfiniperson
    Adam Westperson
    Lady Gagaperson
    Tony Bennettperson
    George Harrison's widowperson
    Apple Recordscompany
    Metallicaorganization
    Ford Motor Companycompany
    Chicago Auto Showevent
  • ?

    licensing_signal: Modern pinball game production requires 100% licensor approval on all content; complex approval chains (e.g., Beatles required Apple, George Harrison estate, principal meetings) significantly impact game development timelines and feature availability

    high · Gomez: 'Every game gets 100% licensor approval... Every iota of content that you create gets approved... George Harrison's widow said, there isn't a George song in the game... you've got to pay for that'

  • $

    market_signal: China and Brazil emerging as growth markets for Stern with significant untapped audience discovering pinball for first time; international distribution and brand recognition driving global expansion

    medium · Gomez: 'China and Brazil are emerging markets for us, markets that we're trying to work. But they are discovering for the first time pinball machines. So we feel like we're leading a renaissance in pinball'

  • $

    market_signal: Limited Edition games demonstrate strong collector demand with $8,500 units selling out in 15-60 minutes, indicating robust secondary/premium market and FOMO-driven purchasing

    high · Gomez: 'That's an $8,500 game and they sometimes sell out in less than an hour. We've had them sell out in 15 minutes'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern introduces three new game titles per year; game development cycle is 14 months; teams work with financial and time budgets while maintaining creative vision

    high · Gomez: 'We introduced three new titles a year... The games take about 14 months to design... The teams work to budgets. They work to financial, real business budgets, and they work to time budgets'

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern maintains three-tier product strategy (Pro/Premium/Limited Edition) with price points ranging from lower-cost Pro to $8,500+ Limited Editions; Limited Editions are collectible numbered items with cosmetic differentiators

    high · Gomez: 'This is what we call our Pro Edition... This is our Premium Edition model... this is the limited edition. This is made in limited quantities. You get a number. You get number 26 of 500'

  • ?

    licensing_signal: Original themes are no longer financially viable in modern pinball; distributors expect licensed IP; licensing costs are significant enough to impact game feature count (Beatles song count example)

    high · Gomez: 'Original themes are really tough to do today... Original themes, unfortunately, because of the way the world has gone where everything is licensed, are not financially viable for us today'

    • 4:28
    We're very proud of this. In 2019, you have to think about this. We manufacture the product here. We employ 300 people in our factory. Our extended enterprise of vendors probably employs another 15,000 Americans, machines, the people that make the steel I use, the plastic I use, the wire, the printed circuit boards, all the stuff that goes into our game and we are exporting half of it. This is the Guangzhou game show two weeks ago in China. China is an emerging market for us. China and Brazil are emerging markets for us, markets that we're trying to work. But they are discovering for the first time pinball machines.
    5:13
    So we feel like we're leading a renaissance in pinball. And we're acquiring fans from a generation of game players that were essentially steeped on virtual games. So today, the largest growing segment of our audience is in their 20s. because they're playing a game that they can't play anywhere else. They can't play it on their phones. Really, they can play virtual versions. By the way, there are virtual versions. We have digital partners, and we make virtual versions of our games.
    5:47
    We do launch parties. We do a lot of PR events. We go to CES, the Consumer Electronics Show, not because we sell any product there, but just because we get a lot of press because we are different from every other product on the floor at the Consumer Electronics Show. Even though we have, as we'll talk about later, state-of-the-art electronics in these games. This is our factory. We have 110,000 square feet behind O'Hare, and you should come and visit us. We do tours anytime. You don't need a lot of notice. You can just call us and stop by and see us build pinball machines.
    6:27
    So these are just some random photos. I walked around the plant. Again, premium brands, you know, this is a couple year old, this is several years ago. We were working on The Walking Dead. Of course, we've done Kiss and this is a little character called Sparky that is in the Metallica game and, you know, nothing like a shelf full of Sparkies. All of this content is designed in my studio. So every sculpt, every piece of software, every piece of mechanical engineering, every piece of electrical engineering, every piece of game design comes out of my studio. We have an accessory business. It's sort of like buying BMW accessories from BMW. They plug and play. They won't break your game. They extend the play of the game. They are interactive in ways that only we can make them interactive. These are big, huge computer controlled milling machines, routers that cut the play fields, the wood for the play fields right from our CAD files. So now I'm going to, we're going to diverse. That was the company and now I'm going to go into the nitty gritty of how we design these games. So I'm going to show you a little movie.
    7:54
    Bear with me. Three, two, one, boom. Everything that's Deadpool is in this game. Weapons and katanas. Dinosaurs. Little Deadpool. Little Don. Chimichanga truck. You go to the disco. He travels back in time. Mutants. Sabertooth. Mystique. It's crazy with ninjas. and we've got Deadpool narrating it all. Oh, hello! Welcome to my game. I am Deadpool. It's based on the character Deadpool from the comic book. The popularity of the character got so great in the world that he's ready for his own pinball machine. Deadpool's the kind of character that the irreverence of the character lends itself to having some fun. That's what I'm talking about! I love Deadpool, and historically, he's done everything. And so there's his life, his loves, his foes, the insanity inside his head. You know, that all gave us freedom to create this big mix of stuff. You know, music, visuals, the pixel art, the 80s sounds.
    9:04
    Every game designer you talk to, I think, will tell you that, you know, it's all about easy to learn, hard to master. I wanted simple toys, simple ball interactive stuff, and I hadn't really done a game where I was very focused on the flow of the play field or the shots for a while. And so in Deadpool, I did that.
    9:26
    Deadpool's got a lot of interesting ideas put into it. You've got different shots you've never seen. You've got a really interactive toy right in the middle. And you've got this shot on the left flipper shoots the right side of the play field to feed a side ramp. The ball gets whipped around this wire form up this side ramp and it actually crosses through the play field unguided by anything into the ninja lock. It's a very satisfying shot. It's not easy, but when you make it, it's like, oh man, that's awesome. It's Little Deadpool time! The Little Deadpool bash toy is a lot of fun just to interact with him by hitting him and he's like, hey, cut it out!
    10:03
    You can knock the target down and hit Little Deadpool and then it'll lock the ball for you behind the three leg. and you have a hurry up timer where you try and release it again and then it starts a multi-ball for you.
    10:17
    The very first time I had springs on the katana, a bunch of guys walked in and there was no voice, there was nothing. I just shot it and wiggled and all these guys cracked up and I was like, okay, I'm going somewhere here.
    10:29
    Part of the feature of the Alien Premium is the lift ramp that allows you to divert the ball back to the light flipper to continue shooting these disco loops. Then you've activated this mode where a dancer is fighting vampires and it activates the mirror ball.
    10:46
    There's like all kinds of flow all over the place. You can keep the ball going as long as you make the shot. It's very energetic and intense. When you sit down to make these things, now that we've got the LCD display, we have to decide, you know, what are we doing and what fits. We decided to come up with, you know, 1990 trapped in a video game Deadpool. Basically they created a video game in addition to the pinball machine that we're making because, you know, we had to have stuff that by design is supposed to look like 90s pixel art from, you know, the fighting games of the time.
    11:24
    Fighting's limitations are what drove the look of those games. limited color palettes, smoothing out shapes and things like that. And now we have 3D characters and then we shoot them through a pixel pipeline. And we'll have 30 frame punches and we actually had to throw away all of it to get it down to the purest essence of what a punch is, a 3D frame thing. Limited 3 out of 4 frames of animation and now you nailed it.
    11:50
    Anytime you go into a battle or a quest in the game, you're actually going to see a video game being played that reacts completely to the way you play the game. Battle is lit at the scoop. It shows you who you're going to fight against, and then they start fighting. Battle. When you make shots, Deadpool is hitting Sabretooth, and he's taking his health down. And then you have this opportunity to make a final shot that's going to cash out a bunch of points. Then you make that shot, and it's a big... Knockout. Deadpool wins.
    12:19
    The fun part to me is looking at these things and thinking, what should they sound like? Every switch and every button on the play-thrill has to have a sound. So there are over 70 pieces of music in the game, and then over 300 sound effects, and over 3,000 speech calls. It's not that big of a deal. There's some funny sounds up there, and there's some classic pinball sounds in there too.
    12:45
    Very chunky, low-bit kind of stuff, and it's mixed in also with music. There are four original songs that have vocals that were written specifically for the game. There's a rap song, a country song, a metal song, and an R&B song.
    13:13
    This is, I'm Deadpool, I'm a cool guy, I'm gonna make this mixtape for myself. And it's all music about me.
    13:23
    So it's a really interesting mix of stuff, but it all works really well. It's actually one big piece of art.
    13:32
    Let me put it this way. I think it's been a work of art for each one of us in each of our respective mediums.
    13:41
    The end pool, it's zany, it's crazy, and the ball's wild. I think it's got punch. It's loudmouthed in your face. You'll really enjoy it. I think it's going to be classic, and nobody else will ever attempt to do this. because it'd be crazy. That's that boom boom boom. Boom boom boom boom. Yeah. Boom boom boom boom. Boom boom boom boom boom. That was awesome!
    14:23
    So, that was that build pinball. I'm actually, I'm the chief creative officer for the company. I run the product development studio. All the product development efforts for the company are my responsibility. So I have a bunch of design teams that are each all working on games simultaneously. The teams are staggered. We introduced three new titles a year. And this was a situation where we got into trouble and the designer that was working on the game couldn't continue and so I had to jump in and design the game. And I decided that I couldn't take over someone else's stuff. I had to do it my way from scratch. And it wasn't pretty because I have running the running product development is a full-time job designing a game is a full-time job so it was kind of a tough year but we're very very happy with the way that the game came out so let's go on and I'll tell you more about the design teams sorry we I seem to have gone back to this one but I'll get us there quickly all right so everybody loves a hero but But the reality is that these things are made by teams, right? There's some old photos from throughout time while I was designing different games. That's actually the Batmobile here on LaSalle Street when they were shooting the Dark Knight movie because I did the Dark Knight pinball machine back then. I did the Transformers one and the Avengers one. And so I've really been blessed. I'm an industrial designer by trade and I've spent my entire career designing entertainment stuff. So I, you know, right out of school, I designed late 70s, early 80s, upright coin-operated video games. I was a toy inventor for a consulting firm for about five years. I ran an Xbox and PlayStation video game design team for about nine years of my life. And I designed pinball machines at the old Valley and Williams company, and then eventually landed here at Sir Pinball. So I'm really very blessed. I spent 40 years designing things that no one needs, but they got me employed. So the reality is it takes a design team. The teams are multidisciplinary. They are led by a game designer. The designer is sort of like a director of a film. He directs the overall vision and direction of the game and tries to keep the team headed in the same direction. Everyone on the team makes a creative contribution. The creative contributions take all sorts of forms, right? Teams work as you would imagine they do. They get into a room. They immerse themselves in the theme. They watch movies or whatever it is it takes. They order pizza. They talk about what they want to do. and they start down the path of creating this project.
    17:36
    The games take about 14 months to design, and so it's a long, arduous process. Software developers, the lead developer and the game designer are really the creative vision for the game together, because they all touch so many pivotal parts of the game that they have to be the drivers of all of the content.
    18:05
    But there are mechanical engineers that realize the vision and the mechanisms and all of the things that it takes to make the games producible, manufacurable. The teams work to budgets. They work to financial, real business budgets, and they work to time budgets. Because at the end of the day, we're privileged to make pinball machines, but we are a business and we have to stay alive. And so we do introduce some element of reality into the process of creativity. That's the real world. We have, you saw in the film, you saw sound designers, animators, there's an illustrator that creates all the beautiful static art. We have sculptors, all of our modern day sculptors are digital sculptors, incredibly talented guys. This is a shot in the studio. Those little cards on the wall each represent a task. And those lines are essentially the status of that card, the task being done. So the teams meet on a regular basis, especially as the project gets closer to the end. When we're about two to three months out from ship, they start meeting every day around the game. We call them dailies. and everyone plays the game, everyone critiques the game, everyone can talk about any portion of the game, and everyone takes something away from that meeting. Happens every day. That's how we drive the games to the end. My mechanical engineer, Rob Blakeman, when we were working on Deadpool, I just gave him this little sketch, and we went in the model shop and cut some stuff up and got it working. That's my CAD model on the play field. And it really is like we're making a video game at the same time we're making a pinball machine. That is the three-dimensional CAD model of Deadpool that was used to animate all the character Deadpools that we decided that whenever Deadpool broke the fourth wall, he was going to be ultra high res. And whenever he wasn't, he was going to be very low res, chunky, looked like a 90's video game. We storyboard everything because that's how you get everybody on the same page. So rather than guys running off and making stuff, you really need to understand what you're making. So we storyboard a lot of the scenes, a lot of the things that are going to happen in the game. Some concept sketches on the character. Look at this guy's art. I mean, this is all hand drawn stuff. This is not, you know, this is not anything but. This guy's nom de guerre is Zombie Yeti. His real name is Jeremy Packer. He's an incredibly talented illustrator. He's so talented that the creator of Deadpool, Rob Liefeld, who created the character in the 90s, saw our art and called him up and said, oh my god, you knocked it out of the park. So we make different price points. This is what we call our pro model. This is what you're more than likely to see on the street. It's a lower cost product than some of the other ones. This is our premium model. This has all the play features on a play field, the same software, et cetera, as our limited editions. But it's intended, it's not made in limited quantities. And so this is sort of the hardcore players game. This is what our avid fans, aficionados buy. And then this is the limited edition. This is made in limited quantities. You get a number. You get number 26 of 500. No one else would have number 26 of 500 signed by the game designer, et cetera, et cetera. It's got a lot of cosmetic stuff, and it's collectible. These, by the way, sell out. That's an $8,500 game and they sometimes sell out in less than an hour. We've had them sell out in 15 minutes.
    22:17
    That's what my desk looked like at the end of Deadpool. And that guy I was talking about, the artist, when we were all done, he gave me this giant Deadpool action figure. That's the day he gave it to me in my office. And then, you know, again, I love, I get these from fans, right? I get these from people all the time, you know, here's, here's, here's, you know, look at this little guy, I mean, I don't know if he has any idea what he's doing, but he's playing pinball. So this is interesting, this is an interesting segue into what you can do today if you want to. If you want to just play pinball, you can. This guy is 10 and a half years old. He's autistic. He didn't talk until he was four and a half. And I got this letter with his drawings from his parents. And they said, he plays everything pinball. He just is absolutely crazy about it and he made these drawings which are, I'm gonna frame but, and so there's, you may not recognize it but there is, there's real design here. Like this little guy really thought into what he was doing and why he was doing the things that he was doing. So Of course, we sent him all kinds of stuff to encourage him.
    23:48
    I sent him some of my real drawings and stuff. And we sent him a whole box of stuff. And his parents were thrilled But the fact they were thrilled that we responded I was blown away when I got this I mean, I was just like, wow, look at this guy. He's just like, he's in it. He's, you know, he might really be one of these guys designing pinball machines one day.
    24:19
    All right, so it starts with a theme, right? And I like to think of, like I drive the teams to, you know, it's fairly obvious, and of course we work with premium brands. We work with premium brands because it extends our power to do that. But we have, we used to live in an era where a lot of pinball machines were designed with original themes. And original themes are really tough to do today.
    24:49
    And they're tough from a business standpoint. When you call the distributor in Europe and you say, hey, I've got the new game, and you tell him the theme of the game, and the very first words out of his mouth is, what is that? I'm not heard of it. Is it a movie? What is it? And then you say, no, it's like one of the guys in the studio came up with this, it's a guy and a girl, and they steal a car, and they drive across the country, and he says, why don't you send me two? And, you know, had we said, hey, I've got Iron Man, he would have said, oh, great, send me four containers. So the difference is, you know, I'm going to write you a check for a million bucks or I'm going to write you a check for $16,000. So original themes, unfortunately, because of the way the world has gone where everything is licensed, are not financially viable for us today. And so we have to work with great brands. So, you know, it's not a stretch, right? Action, adventure, music, humor, some interesting characters, something that you can build a game around.
    25:57
    I like to tell the teams, give me a two-sentence description of what this thing is. I don't know what it is, but I want to think into it. Assemble the rebels and destroy the Death Star. John Williams' music plays, Darth Vader speaks, TIE fighters and X-Wings dogfight. Done. I got it. You got me. OK, that's good. Let's go. Two-sentence description tells you what the game is about. Experience Deadpool's insanity from inside his head. Deal with his foes, his loves, travel through time. Got megalodons, vampires, and yes, a T-Rex. Done. Let's do it. Two-sentence description tells you what your game is about. It's 1964, old school Clayfield, nine Beatles songs. Wait, what? Nine Beatles songs? We have nine Beatles songs in that thing. Do you have any idea how expensive that license was?
    26:46
    So, and then of course we've got, you know, ladies and gentlemen, meet the Beatles. We have all that, we have a lot of that black and white footage, like caught into our stuff. You know, if you get a chance to play the game, it's, so this was interesting. You know why there are nine songs, not eight? We originally thought we can only afford eight. And then, you know, every game gets 100% licensor approval. That means the licensor, they can say no to anything. Every iota of content that you create gets approved. When you're talking about the Beatles, you first talk to the licensing agent, then you talk to the people at Apple, and then twice a year the principals meet to understand what's been approved or not approved. Of course, they They have ultra-veto power. George Harrison's widow said, there isn't a George song in the game. Oh, I guess we need nine songs. Oh, yeah, you've got to pay for that.
    27:57
    So where I'm going here is we've got a very short period of time. This is really complex stuff. I'm trying to distill it down to a few things. So we talked about themes, and now we're going to talk about features. Is there an iconic toy based on the thing that you're creating? Is there a thing that is significant? Wow, a T-Rex that eats the ball. Let's blow up the Death Star. Let's try to make you feel like Luke in the trench. You've got to make the one shot that's going to destroy the Death Star. spinning record has a magnet in the middle. In 1964, someone would have said Fab Gear. Yes, Harrison.
    28:54
    What I want you to look at is, there's the Death Star. The Death Star is protected by drop targets. Drop targets is a historically iconic device in a pinball machine. And so what happens, the great thing about a drop target is that you instantly get a change of state feedback. So you hit the thing with the ball, and it went down. So that's good. So three drop targets guarding the entrance to the Death Star. And the way this works is, remember what I said, right? Luke in the trench, make the one shot. So the way this works is take down those three drop targets which have TIE fighter icons and I feed you a multi-ball. And now all of a sudden you're in the scene where everything's attacking the Death Star. Every shot you make is like blowing up a gun turret or destroying a TIE fighter, etc. And there's all this action. But now you've drained, there's four balls in the game, you've drained three of your multi ball, you have one ball left. And then I start a timer and I start strobing those lights up the ramp because you're Luke in the trench. You've got to make one shot to destroy the Death Star. And I need to bring the element of suspense, which is my timer counting down. Got to get control of the ball. Got to get the ball on the flipper. Got to make the shot. And if you don't, It's okay. Everything goes back to normal and you're just playing pinball.
    30:36
    In a couple of minutes, we're going to talk about game progression. The evolution of your path through the game.
    30:48
    I do this a lot. Every designer has signatures. Because it's like anything else, anyone designs. I guard my significant toy. I make you work. First of all, I want you to look inside. I want you to see the Hulk. And I want you to wonder, how do I play with the Hulk? What do I got to do to get to the Hulk? That's curb appeal, right? That's from across the room, you saw the Hulk on the back glass. And that drew you to the game. That's the movie poster. It's supposed to communicate some amount about what it is. supposed to make you recognize it's the reason we pay for these big brands. So that from across the room, I can draw you to the game. But now you've got to look under the glass. Now you look under the glass and I have to entice you with something. And I want you to look at the Hulk. So you say, how do I get to the Hulk? Well, there are four drop targets in front of him that spell Hulk. Guess what has to happen before you can play with the Hulk? You've got to take down those drop targets. And now the Hulk will come alive. He will throw that ramp in front of him over his head. He will pound the play field with his arms. He will shake left and right. He will make fun of you, actually. He makes fun of you. And now you got something, right? Now I am entertaining you, hopefully. So it starts with a theme. And the way I do it is I think about the theme, and then I go to the features, because the features are architectural footprints that I have to accommodate. I have to accommodate some physical device and in order for me to do that, I have to understand what the device is. That's why I do theme, then features, then I get into the play field architecture. The play field architecture is the game, but at the end of the day, at its most basic, ball is a bat and ball game. Just like baseball, just like tennis, the trajectory of the ball is determined by where it is on a flipper when you flip. It's a ball and bat game and it's that simple. The layout and the play field architecture controls, I have devices like pop bumpers and what we call slingshots, those triangular islands down at the bottom, those are randomizers, right? Those are things that we put in there very cleverly to try to, because the reality is that the first rule of pinball is keep the ball in play. Games must have rules. If a game doesn't have rules, it's not a game. And the first rule is keep the ball in play. If you drink three of those, you're out of the game. You're not in the game anymore. So you've got to keep the ball in play. Those randomizers challenge you to do that.
    33:52
    They challenge you to gain control. Some of these guys back here can actually play the game the way I envision the game is played in my head because they're amazing.
    34:06
    Dangerous Jack over here, he's like, watch him play. It's unbelievable. He's Twitch Guide to the Stars. That's Jack. I watch and I don't... He basically was like, and then I will do this, and then I will do that, and then I will do that. I'm not that good. I fight to get control of the ball. I think about my shot, all this stuff. I think that that's the other thing you have to learn as a game designer is I have to entertain the novice and I have to entertain Jack. And the challenge of entertaining the novice is that the novice is going to do what the novice is going to do. He's not doing what I envision he's going to do. He's not going to go, you know, I'm blinking the light. That's supposed to tell you to go shoot that thing. He's just like happy to be in the game. So I want to talk a little bit about rules and game progression. And so, again, think about the order. So we did the theme. We did the features because they define architecture. Then we did the play field. We started worrying about making the shots feel great. Can I hook up two shots together? And what happens when the ball goes over there? everything the ball does when it's on a play field, you should try to anticipate from the standpoint of the good things and the bad things. Because it is a piece of entertainment. And it's not about making you mad. It's about making you happy and entertained. But there is, you know, like all things in life, all good things have some element of risk. And that's it. So the rules in the game progression are next. And why are they next? Well, when you lay out the architecture and define the features, to some extent, you are creating the rules. If I tell you that you have to take down the HALF drop targets, I've essentially created a rule. I've said, this won't happen unless this happens. These groups of progression, look at the things that it says. I don't know if you can read these signs, but one says, drop targets, start Death Star multiball. That's the rule. Assemble the rebels to increase the Death Star value. What does that mean? That means that until, I can go blow up the Death Star right away. If I can start the game, go blow up the Death Star. If I collect the rebels before I attempt to blow up the Death Star, the value I get for destroying the Death Star is going to be that much greater. At the top over there, a really simple thing. down complete top lanes to start double scoring mode. For 30 seconds, you get double scoring. Anything you do is twice the value. Right? Those are simple rules. Completing the lanes just means get the ball through those all three lanes lit. So again, you know, you look at right over on the force targets on the left side there, that's a classic pinball spell out. That's what we call it when you, you know, you hit the target once, you light F. Hit it again, light O. Hit it again, next time, R. Basically, light force and that enables rebel shots. Every shot has an icon of a rebel on it. Guess what? That's the rebel shot. The outside ones have a picture of Luke. Those are Luke's shots. The two inner Luke ones are Leia, there's an R2-D2 shot in the center, and there's a Han Solo shot right here in the swoopy ramp. So, when I complete those targets, I light one of those guys. When he's lit, you make those shots, you make it some number of times, and you have acquired that character. You've assembled, you've collected him into the assembly of characters.
    38:09
    Games are cybernetic. They provide feedback, right? It's the reason you smile, the reason you laugh, the reason you get upset, it's because something has happened and it's giving you the feedback to do that. So remember the movie, remember Jerry Thompson, the sound designer, saying every target, everything has a sound, right? And in addition to that, almost everything has a light show or a reaction, or maybe it's a physical transition, a transformation, something, right? That's, those are the elements of feedback. You feel it, you hear it, you know, I, I, in some cases we rumble the cabinet and you can feel it. So this choreography really, what it does is it brings all the elements, all those other elements together. And, and it's the thing that, you know, happens very late in the, in the process because you need all the elements, all the elements working, all the elements assembled, everything happening. And so, and this is, you know, this is the responsibility of the software guys, primarily. The game designer can walk in and say, you know, give me a light right here. And I think that light is late. But my perception of late and his perception of late are very different, right? He's talking about milliseconds of control. I'm talking about it just feels wrong. Nah, that's slow, faster. And we sit there and we iterate until we get it right, right? So orchestrating lamp effects, sound, music, video, and physical state changes is the magic that creates the feeling in the games. That's it. I mean, it's like, so they are very, very much, and cybernetics Cybernetics is an old word. Cybernetics is from a time, it's like, I don't know what they call it today. I use it, you may have never heard it, but basically if the stove is hot and I touch the stove, I burn my hand and I reacted, that's a cybernetic interface. I want to show you this, which I think conveys some of the things I'm trying to say. I hope this works.
    40:54
    I know. She's my favorite and my toughest challenger. So, I, somebody sent me this, this little girl playing at one of the trade shows that guy that was she was playing as one of my guys and he was just watching Ryan the booth and she was literally playing with him meaning that they were both his low in the game
    42:06
    this kind of part of the same group Oh, no, really? Okay, sorry. Sorry. Oh, seriously. So we do all that, right? And is it fun yet?
    43:06
    It's really possible to envision all this stuff in your head and describe it just the way that I did. And when you play it, it's not any fun.
    43:18
    So what does it take to make it fun? Because now you're 12 months into your development cycle. The manufacturing date is approaching.
    43:32
    The program management people are losing their minds. When the designers are walking around going, yeah, we can't ship this thing yet. It's not any fun. and the game designer is getting calls from the president of the company, are you guys going to be ready? Are you going to make it? And it's not fun yet. So unfortunately the only way, and so what happens is when you've had a lot of experience like I do, get closer. But you don't ever, ever conquer it, you know, without iterating, right? So what it takes is, what it takes to make it fun is to iterate and iterate and iterate. And iterating means not thinking about it in your office staring at your computer screen. It doesn't mean thinking about it and talking about it. Those may be elements of it. But Iterating means doing. So making it fun, to make it fun when you don't know what the problem is, means get your hands dirty and do something about it. And it doesn't matter which discipline. Of all those disciplines that we discussed, whether it's the sound guy, the software guy, the mechanical engineer, you know, I mean, there's a play field that's pretty mangled up, right? Look at that. I don't even see those holes, but they were not made by a computer-controlled milling machine. They were made by a guy with a drill and a lot of pressure because the president of the company is calling, let's go, let's go, we've got to ship this thing. So I don't know another way around it. And I design toys, I design video games on two distinct different platforms and for two distinct different audiences. And I've designed probably 18 pinball machines in the course of my career. And in every scenario, how you make it fun is you rip stuff apart, put it back together, move it around, try something else, talk to another guy, go home, think about it, do it again the next day. But if you're not hands-on with it and you're not really pushing it with your hands,
    45:53
    I love my CAD tools. I love all that state-of-the-art stuff, right? But there's something about touching a piece of material and cutting it or there that informs you in a way that your CAD system can't inform you and so that I am a huge fan of
    46:12
    You know like cut it up make it do something and the software guys. I watched their iterative process right and they put something in and they don't like it and they go back and they take it out and they do It again and they rebuild it and that back and forth is what it takes
    46:29
    Let's recap. Things set the tone, the features are the toys and some of the challenges, physical challenges. The layout is the play space and the challenges and in essence, the game. Rules progression, mark your progress through the game and basically make it a game. It's not a game if it doesn't have rules. is that very critical feedback element that makes you love or hate something. And it's absolutely vital. And in my head, this is the order in which they must happen because the one below it depends on the one above it. And then that last bit of magic, right? That the, what is magic? Well, it's iteration, luck, experience, and work. That's what it is. It's just, I don't know another way. I don't, you know, and I've seen it happen so many times that something that went from, you know, no fun to amazing and that transition period is, it's one of the scariest things. If you're in product development, it's one of the scariest things you'll ever experience. But you got to have faith, you got to give the process, the notion of iteration, the time to do it and then you'll get there. And that what I got I have this is a lab and a lab means that you going to do something So you don have to do this if you don want to You can have fun You can go play pinball whatever But I had this vision.
    48:15
    I had this vision that y'all were going to break up into teams. And here I brought you a little designer kit. Let me show you what's in your designer kit. So, a brand new box of Crayolas. You cannot go wrong with a brand new box of Crayolas. And then of course, we're talking about designing a pinball machine, so I brought you a pinball. Just so you can feel it and touch it and understand it. You know, like my first day as a pinball designer, this is back in the day before CAD, right? we had these big giant drawing tables. And at the base of the drawing table, there was a trough. And you'd get your pencils there. All your eraser shavings would fall in there. And one of the experienced designers came over to my desk, and I had this big giant drawing. And I have respect. I spent 15 years of my career drawing with a pencil and sharpening it every day and all that. And honestly, we put a man on the moon doing that. So let's not. These young guys, they look at me funny when I say that, because they grew up with Tad. They're like, yeah, whatever. But a guy said to me, he goes, you've got a problem. You're never going to succeed in this business. I said, why? And he goes, you cannot do anything. You can't. You get up right now. Go to the lab. Get a pinball. Put it in that trough. You have to have it there. every day. You have to touch it, feel it, move it around, throw it. That's how you design pinball machines. Okay. Steve Ritchie. Steve Ritchie. Steve Ritchie, yeah. All right. So then I brought you some inserts, right? These are what we call inserts. These, you know, you call them lenses. They're, of course, this is a pop-over cap. But, and this is like the blade for a drop target. And so you're saying to yourself, what am I going to do with these things? So I'm going to say, I'm going to say to you, here's what I would like you to do. So here's a, this is a blank play field. See, it's got flippers, right? And, and like, don't you want to just draw on these? You just want to pick those Crayolas and have a good time?
    50:33
    So let's, let's invent, let's invent a, you know, I think you should break up into groups and invent a thing. It doesn't have to be anything crazy. It can be anything you want. Then I think that, you know, this is what I think you ought to do. You wanted half the group to maybe play pinballs first? Yeah, yeah. So my vision was, I don't know if there are really 40 of you here, but I sort of planned around 40. So I thought that each pinball machine can take four people. We'll turn them on. These people can play pinball for half an hour, and the other people can design, and then you can switch. But, you know, here's what I thought, right? I thought you take the popovers cap and you go like that where you want the popovers.
    51:17
    Right? And then, you know, you go, okay, I have this, I have a smell out right here. And I'm going to make it like this. And, you know, I'm going to say hello. Hello.
    51:37
    Right? And then I got some lanes coming into the Pop-On Bridge, right? And I thought you would just use these devices to trace these things, right? I want some targets over here.
    51:59
    Right? So I think that, and then, you know, whatever. Here's your theme insert. So this is what I think you should do with your crayons and your markers. You should just take the stuff in your designer kit and have fun. Make something like this. I forgot some ball guides. You've got to make some shots. You've got to decide. It's a big orbit shot that comes around here like this. It's going to bring the ball back. right? And now we're going to do a ramp right here. This is a crazy ramp. A big old snake ramp, right? So I just want you to have fun, right? Like make some stuff if you want.
    52:50
    Do it. Woo! Thank you. Stern staff in the back here. I think they're home from a show. Does anyone have a question?
    53:27
    Okay, we're going to just throw it out. Are you ready? What's the question, Q? Any questions? I have a question. Okay.
    53:36
    Okay, I know nothing about pinball. So I'm going to start by saying, like, I have never played pinball. So I'm probably definitely going to say the wrong thing. Is there anything in a pinball game that's below the surface that's, like, secret, that you don't see it, but that's happening in terms of like, if you win, it drops down, you get a bunch of points because something happens in the dark and then it comes back up. Right, so we, okay, so let me clear up some stuff.
    54:01
    We're not a gambling device, so we don't purposely try to take your money. You could, if you're good at pinball, like Jack, you can play for hours on your quarter. on your dollar today.
    54:21
    So, yeah. So, and it's free today. But you can play forever. So we don't take your money. But I would, I will gladly lift the play field and you guys can see, like, all the craziness that it takes to do the stuff on the top. Please do. Right? Okay, so we'll do that. So the keys are, they're on a, Yeah, they're on one of the power, one of the cords. He told me right here I think. Is that it? Okay, yeah. So one of the, like the, what is it, Jurassic. Yeah. So we're going to lift the play field for you guys. I'm going to show you. And then afterwards we'll open up the back box too. You'll see the whole thing. And, you know, you can gather around and you'll see the whole thing. Any other questions? Yes. If you just want to throw the microphone so I can come here. Sorry, I didn't try to hit it. Okay.
    55:17
    All right, there you go. So it was really interesting to hear you mention how much it's tied to known brands. Yes. And that is what sells. I'm curious, though, if you had conversations about something that's not explicitly tied to a brand but more of like a hobby.
    55:39
    Does an NBA team in particular sell much better than basketball in general? So I've actually done an NBA licensed in my machine. I used all the teams. And we've done the issue with brands is, and by the way, a title, as we refer to a brand, is no guarantee of success. You still have to put a game in it. You still have to make compelling stuff. You can't just dress anything in anything.
    56:16
    That is just a recipe for disaster. So the idea is to think of pinball as a medium. It's different media.
    56:31
    Think of a guy that makes a film is working in that medium. A guy that makes an oil painting is working in his medium. pinball is a medium and the best the best implementation of a pinball machine is one where the theme the brand is seamlessly integrated so that everything makes sense to the things you're doing how you're doing it um the licensors call it brand equity you know don't don't mess with my brand you know make my brand retain the equity in my brand be true to my brand and so like for Like for example, that Ford game, right? The president of Ford said to me when he saw them on the floor, he said to me, you know what? That thing looks like we made it. And that's great. That's the highest compliment they could have paid us. We took your brand and we applied it in our medium and we were successful because you think, you know, man, look what they did with that. So I think you're talking about what I, like, so the best licenses in my mind are what I call a soft license. Soft doesn't mean less powerful. Soft means I have the room to do something creative with it. Deadpool was, Deadpool is a Marvel property. but every creator that has touched Deadpool for a new Deadpool story, for a new Deadpool something has had some running room to make it his own and that's what people want, that's what our audience wants the pinball machine to be a unique piece of that element, that brand, and that's what we try to do Thank you Thanks, that was fascinating. I guess my question is more with the continued explosion of gaming on devices, and obviously the next generation doing it in a different way, maybe the previous generation. How is that impacting the pinball arcade? Right, so we've had explosive growth over the course of the last 10 years. And we continue to grow. We're going to have a bigger year this year than we did last year. Because our medium is unique. Because I don't have it on my phone. I have a virtual version of my game on the phone. I have a virtual version on my iPad. had. But there's nothing like that thing. From our perspective, it's a non-issue. The largest growing segment of my population is 20 something. It's not 42. I do have different elements. I have a guy that maybe is 42 who's now doing well. He's got a big house. He's got a family, he remembers playing pinball in college, he's what we call our record buyer, and he's going to buy one. And if we do our jobs right, you know, he'll buy another one, or he'll trade that one after some amount of time, etc. So that's one segment of the market. But the largest growing segment is, you know, 20-somethings, because it's a new, different thing. It's unlike anything else they do. Thank you so much. I'm curious, and I work in advertising, so I'm always trying to understand the consumer, obviously, but it's somebody who's playing these awesome pinball games. I'm curious, what are the common traits or qualities of these pinball wizards? Wow. Well, so it's an incredibly diverse demographic. It is absolutely, I mean, I wish I would have had a slide on it. We actually do slides, you know, we do, we have some presentation decks in the marketing, on the marketing side that address exactly that question. And so we have, I mean, nationwide there's a women's league, women only, called Bells and Chimes. They have a chapter here in Chicago. They get together on a regular basis to play. We have that little girl that you saw in the video. She's part of a group called Little Flippers. They're little boys and girls, certain age, they play. go to any of the bar caves in town on a Thursday or Friday night and you're going to see a date crowd a 20 something date crowd. You're going to see I can introduce you to lots of people in their 30s and 40s that with collections or just there's a guy who lives in an apartment in Manhattan, he doesn't have the space for 10 of them. He's buying one, and when he gets bored with it, he's flipping it. Because one of the things about these things is, unlike any other type of coin-operated product, they have incredible resale value. It is one of the hallmarks of what we do. Go ahead, buy a pinball machine, operate it for some amount of time, or play it for some amount of time. When you go to get rid of it, it still works some large percentage of what you paid for it. And so we have a community of people that can't afford to have 10 of them at once, but they can afford to have one, and they'll trade them and get the next new one.
    62:23
    So this weekend, if you have the time, in Wheeling at the Westin, Pinball Expo is going on. It's a local show. By the way, there are shows in every city almost every weekend and tournaments. Go out there. It's not much of an entry. I don't remember where it is. Jack, do you remember how much to get into Pinball Expo? There's a group on. Okay. Fantastic. So, but if you want to go out there, if you want to go out there, you'll get an idea of this crazy hobby. This morning at the factory we had, you know, like school buses. They do a tour. We probably had 500 people come through the factory this morning. You know, these school buses pull up and these people empty out. We give them tours of the factory and then they get back on the bus and go back to the at the Black and Green Ball Expo. Tomorrow night, Cassandra Peterson, Elvira, Mistress of the Dark, will be there at our party because we have just finished the third iteration of an Elvira game. And so she did a bunch of custom video and stuff for us. So yeah, we are a global lifestyle brand that we didn't set up with the notion of becoming one, but we have become one.
    63:41
    Anybody else? All right so... Oh I was just going to say why Chicago? Is it because of Valley or why are we elected center? Right so that's a good question. We so you know there's a joke in our business that because companies have tried to build pinball machines in other cities, et cetera. And they've never survived. They've always gone out of business. So we say, yeah, you can build pinball machines. You've got to build them in Chicago. But yes, the history of the business is Godley, Valley, and Williams, and all those companies were here. And there was a time when there was another,
    64:39
    we're in a renaissance of we're driving. We set out to proactively grow our company. We came out of the ashes of the crash of 08, and we've been on a growth spurt ever since. But it's like when people say to me, wow, Pinball, I mean, who knew? And I was like, well, I knew. I think we've been, we're like the guys behind the scenes driving this thing. You think this is a thing that happened to us. But I'm here to tell you, we happened to it.
    65:21
    Yes. I was wondering, I believe you do the fan design, correct? That's more flow-based. What's your opinion on stop and go design? Oh, I like, you know, like, it's, so what he's talking about is, my, my games are designed so that if you're Jack Danger, you can actually make one shot, get the ball back on the flipper, make the next shot, get the ball back on the flipper, and transition. So these, these transitions, these, these control transitions are called combinations for obvious reasons, or you're combining shots together. and the games I grew up playing that influenced me were of that sort. And so I design in that style. And he referred to stop and go. There are other designers that basically move the ball from place to place, hold it, stop it, give you a chance to react in a more controlled way than the stuff that I do, which is very reactive.
    66:32
    There's great, and it's just, I have nothing against those games. I play those games as much as I play my games.
    66:41
    It's just a thing I'm comfortable with. It's a style I'm comfortable with, so that's where I work. I think we should let the fun begin. Yeah. Molly, love you, buddy. You can invent a theme, tell me what it is, and have fun with the crayons. If you don't want to do that and you just want to play pinball and eat and drink, do that. My guys are around if you actually are going to do something.
    67:11
    Oh, yeah. Oh, and, you know, we've got a game up here, Taking Apart, so come on, look at it. I want to see you play pinball. Oh, yeah.
    67:20
    I think a lot of people are going to want to watch it. I've been waiting for this. So, Internet, how'd you feel about that? Was it good? Yeah?
    67:31
    It was good. Have you seen the inside of a pinball machine? I'm sure you have. Hey, this is Wason. Hi.
    67:37
    Welcome to the Dangerous Jack stream. Gomez, thanks, dude. Dangerous Jack. Monday through Friday. Yeah, if you ever want a tour, you're welcome to email sales at startuppinball.com. Yeah. Yeah, they'll walk you through it. You'll see how every aspect of the sausage is made for sure. Yeah. Give them a couple days notice that you wouldn't like it soar and they'll range it for you. Yeah, buddy. Internet look, it's the amber shooter rod. It's the patented bat tube to hold all the... Honestly, I forgot that we even put that in there. That's hilarious.
    68:31
    So you're the one. I am the one. Do you do contests and things? I travel the world sort of just showing people how to play. I compete from time to time, but I usually prefer just like having a beer and just showing people how to get better. Yeah. Great fun. I want to say something to you, which is for many decades now, I've had a personal philosophy. Okay. That you cannot have a bad day in red shoes. And if you do, it would be much worse if they were another color. Okay, that's wonderful. I'm giving you that. I mean, I have a great day every single day. and I think it's because I'm wearing these red shoes.
    69:15
    Leslie, thank you for that. So what's your background other than playing games? So I was an animator for 18 years, and then a friend when I was... So graphic style. Yeah, so I was building out a studio in the West Loop, and a buddy of mine dropped off a Lord of the Rings pinball machine because he didn't have room for it. And that sort of just got me hooked. I didn't give a crap about pinball before that, and now I've been playing for about eight or nine years. I've been trained by the best players in the world, and I've just been spending my time relaying that information back into the public. Yeah. That smells delicious, by the way. Is it alcoholic? Yes. I'll be right back. Tom? Yeah, hold that thought. It is. So back then, we interviewed, you know... Apple pie cocktails. Oh, yeah. It's a hint of sweetness. Okay.
    70:10
    This... Wow. It's delicious. Yeah, the first table we got was Lord of the Rings, but the game that really hooked me was Judge Dredd.
    70:20
    Lord of the Rings was my first experience, but Judge Dredd was the game that got us into pinball. Holy F, this is the most delicious tasting thing I've ever tasted.
    70:36
    Cauliflower? Wait, we're just like, alright, I'm going to walk through the... Deadflip POV. You got it, Internet. Look at that. Turn pinball on the wall.
    70:50
    What about your whirlwind experience before that? Oh, I don't... I didn't even, like, know what the frick pinball was. Did this hand just move? Oh my god, I did not know the topper moved like this.
    71:05
    Is he dictating how well you're doing with a thumbs up or a thumbs down? He kind of is. That's hilarious. Oh, no. Well, that's an unnatural hand movement. All right.
    71:25
    I was hoping we could ask questions. So, Internet, here's what's going to happen. We are going to... What'd I do? Am I in trouble? Can you teach some of the tricks? Hell, yeah, I'll teach you all the tricks. Graham, you're going to be the best damn pinball player in this room as soon as I find a place to put all my stuff.
    71:49
    All right, Internet, you get to stay here and watch people drink and play pinball. But what I was trying to say was we are here. I sit over here so you can see me We are going to be doing a series very soon I just talked to Gomez about this where we going to be reaching out to the designers and learning their sort of tricks of the trade on how they make games. So Gomez is going to show us how, like, why he's the fastest at making foam core ramps and how he attacks a brand-new design when he's making a pinball machine. Eric Minier of JJP also we're going to sit down with him have a few drinks and he's going to talk us through it we'll get Scott Denision Steve Ritchie, we got freaking everybody so there's a lot of cool content coming I'm just trying to figure out if we're going to do it all live you know or if we do it where we set this up and then just sort of ignore you guys and then just do our thing, does that make sense? so we'll see, I don't know Pat Lawler, absolutely. Yeah, it's going to be awesome. It's going to be awesome. All right. Let's go beat some people up on Pinball Machine, shall we?
    73:12
    Should I set the camera up? Let's be the audience without interaction. Hi. Probably. Remember when I first met you and I called you Waysan instead of Waysan? Yeah, that's because Brody. Yeah. Oh, my son.
    73:28
    Oh, yeah. Is that? Totally weird. I didn't correct you. Okay. It's, it's, yeah, it's way soon. It's actually, it's actually, like, more interesting. Way soon? Yeah.
    73:48
    This is freaking delicious. Is that your, is this his team? No, this is an apple pie. alcohol is a beverage. It's nice, yeah. It's way too tasty. Yeah, I just made it up. It's apple. It's a mayo, apple, apple, and sugar and sugar and apple. It's way too tasty. You really can't even get to eat it in a lot. True. I'm trying. And you can make it with like, butter or you can do that. Give me a little bit of this. I want something more. Internet, let's go look at some people designing pinball machines real quick. And then we'll train people.
    74:42
    Internet, should we design a pinball machine? Oh, yeah. We had this conversation. I love you. She's awesome.
    74:53
    Oh, nice. Tim's giving away some secrets. So, from chat, this is Anakota from the chat there. Oh, you don't know Invader Zim? Bro!
    75:16
    That's amazing. Can we talk to Tim, please? I mean, he's teaching. He's teaching pinball philosophy.
    75:34
    Gorgeous. and now I'm playing two balls. Oh yeah, there's multi-ball features too. There's six balls. We drop here in most of our games. You don't want to listen to Tim. You've heard it all before. Blah, blah, blah. I'm a programmer. La-di-da. How to aim.
    76:11
    What I want is some nachos. Yeah, we have two electrical guys that actually develop... No, we don't sell. We don't sell. We make products. We sell them.
    76:36
    He allowed you to lie in one day? Yeah, I don't doubt it. Sorry, just recording people's... The backs of their heads.
    76:46
    Well, you got at least the front of my head. I know some people who are. Oh, really? I like that. All right, internet, I'm going to get some nachos.
    77:21
    Thank you. Yeah. Oh, my God. Use your Amazon Prime. Just kidding. I'll bring it back. Okay, I'm going to get some nachos.
    80:00
    Yeah, this pod will not be muted. You can go back and watch it. Come on, my guy. Isn't that not cool? It like fluctuates and flashes and stuff.
    81:10
    I can upload this to YouTube if you guys want it. How was that talk? Did you get a lot out of it, Internet?
    81:42
    I always love seeing how the designers' minds work. Cool. That would be hilarious. I would say your best resume to get a job as a designer at Stern is to show up with a pinball machine you built.
    82:29
    A la Archer with Keith Elwin. Thank you. The amount of people here that are pinheads, I'd say if there was 40 people here, I'd say maybe three of them were active pinball people.
    83:36
    I want to go look at Amakata's pinball design, what he's doing. Are you like a pinball expert? Can you give us some tips? Absolutely.
    84:19
    This is the animatronic. You can actually make them touch the base some of the way. Yeah, that's just like. Yeah.
    85:19
    Oh, yeah. Right now, we're going to use the escape. We'll call it. That one's going to be on the bed. And we'll get around that. And then we'll leave it on the bed. And then we'll go to the next one. Oh, there's a lot of ways. We may have some good ideas. It was somewhere in the middle of the day. What's the best way to get it? Oh, you can see it. There's a guy. And he grew up in the business. He's dad.
    86:47
    Thank you. Oh, I can see. Which one do you want? They're awesome. They're such an . Yes. I'm a fan of yours. It's so good. The first year, I'm going to go to the normal class. Like, $8.00 a year. Yeah. Some of that, a lot of that's crazy. But that one is the sweetest. That's really good. There's a lot of different ones. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So let's probably go to the . No, I'm good. Yeah. It's pretty good.
    91:16
    switch . He's very good at it. He figures out all the . OK. . A lot of resources. . Yeah. .
    92:15
    Just like that. This one we're trying to do. If you knew Adam West, you know, and we wanted to do it. Oh, yeah. It would be really exciting. Yeah, so we said, you know, we said, okay. They had no idea. Thank you. Have you ever tried something like this?
    95:11
    Hey, internet. Hey, you guys okay? I think I gotta shut this stream down in order to pay my parking. This video is gonna be available on YouTube. Maybe I'll trim it a little bit. But thank you all for hanging out tonight. This was a lot of fun.
    95:30
    Tomorrow, we are probably gonna try to stream early in the morning. We're gonna try to stream the crawl game. Okay? One of ten in the world. Crawl. All right, bro? and I think early also we're going to play some more Elvira. Okay? All right. I love you all. Thank you so much for all the subs, resubs, donations, everything.
    95:52
    We got some really awesome content coming with Gomez, Minier, all these designers. It's going to be sick. Okay? Be good, and I'll see you soon. Bye. Bye, Internet.