thanks for tuning into loser kid pinball podcast this is episode 79 i'm josh roop with me my co captain as always scott larson and scott let's talk about that wonderful sponsor that takes care of it so well all right we got flipping out pinball i actually just received my deadpool topper I received my Deadpool art blades. I received the side art, and I also received a shaker motor and the PopCap Ninja Stars. So I may have gone all in on Deadpool. So I have a feeling that I'm not selling that game anytime soon, even though there are some crazy people trying to sell their premiums for a premium. So anyway, don't stink, right? Exactly. apparently you can sell crappy you can you can sell pin bots i mean really stranger things premium whatever but if you want to get that machine that you're looking for contact zach and nicole at flipping out pinball and they will be able to either help you find one or at least put you on list because they know when things are going to be manufactured so they've always been good to work with and i just placed an order for my iron maiden art blades dang so that may be uh that may be contingent on the theme for today yeah maybe well i know that you were sitting there you're like i've blinged out my deadpool what can i start on next and uh i know how much you love your iron maiden already and you found out that our good friend steve govea was making a new mod for Iron Maiden, so you've been chit-chatting with him. We're like, you know what? Let's bring him on. Let's talk about this beautiful little thing which has been described as creepy by some. But the man himself is with us. Steve, welcome to the show. Thanks, man. It's creepy? That's great. I did my job. Okay, so the... Everyone said it's really cool, but it's funny because scott's sending this to everyone he's like i sent it to everyone and i may have sent it to Keith Elwin and Keith Elwin sent back damn that's creepy oh great and so i sent back well at least it's theme specific yeah which is why we we know that that keith i obviously iron maiden's an awesome game but you know that you know keith's original theme was archer and so So he figured out a way of making it Iron Maiden, but he's admitted he's not a huge Iron Maiden person. So it was just kind of funny. You know what's funny, Scott? I wasn't an Iron Maiden person either for a long time until I got this game, actually. I remember when I was in high school because obviously I'm a big Rush fan. You already knew that. But I remember having a friend who was so into Iron Maiden. So, you know, 13-year-old me is going, Rush rules, Rush rules. He's all, no, Iron Maiden rules. And I'm like, oh, you know, but once I got the game and started listening to it again, I love them. I think they're great. I told you I'm going to see him in in September. If they're coming, they're coming. They're going to you after they come here. Yeah, I can't wait because I mean, the more you listen to it and I play guitar, I don't play it like those guys. And there's just it's so good. And the aspect of it that I really like is it's very theatrical. which kind of goes right up my alley of being in theater and all that so I thought it was a perfect game to mod because I think it needed some more you know like the world under glass I think it needed a little more Iron Maiden right five inches of Iron Maiden that's what I added well just barely though when I posted so just in case you are wondering Steve does have a thread on Pinside and it says new Iron Maiden sarcophagus mod so by Govea so anyway just look at that and actually has a beautiful picture I wouldn't be surprised if that is the picture that you are looking at looking at the episode but yes I actually when I posted it I received more than one person said does that fit because it is standing straight erect on that play field and it i'm sure that it doesn't have much clearance but you know what it's smaller than you think and and it's um and that was the biggest problem that i had with making the thing is is fitting it uh i knew i wanted to make it i knew i wanted to try but but whether i wound up with a cool little sculpture for myself or something that could fit in the game, I honestly didn't know. So I just kind of went for it. Well, this is your first time kind of stepping away from, you've done mostly Wizard of Oz. What made you decide to go with Iron Maiden? You know what? Because the glass to my Wizard of Oz was off so much that I had to play something and Iron Maiden was right next to it. And I loved it. I just started playing Iron Maiden more and more because I'm constantly in the waz, or I was, fitting the mods that I was making. And I really got a chance to put the glass back on it. And I would. I'd put it on for like one night and I'd slide it off again because I knew the next day I'd be in there doing something. So, yeah, I just started playing Iron Maiden more and more. And I fell in love with it. It took a while. The first time I saw it and I played it, I got it. I got the layout. I played it at like a local brew pub here in San Diego. and I really enjoyed it. But once I really started getting good at it, then I understood why people like it so much. It's really fun. And the rules are very clever in terms of trying to hit the shots and sequence and all that. So, yeah, I think it's a great game. It's funny because I saw this mod and I was like, Scott's showing this to me and I'm like, wasn't there something like this already on the game? And I had to go back through pictures and I realized, this mod's so good, it feels like it should already be a part of the game. I don't know why this isn't already in there, because it just feels like it's professionally done. Well, it is professionally done. You know what? That is the nicest thing that anyone could say about it, because that, to me, is like rule number one. It has to look like it's in the game, like it came with the game. And if it doesn't, then it's just crap. So I really made an effort to do that. And this is the other thing, too. This is my first time making something with Stern. So I had to choose a model and I choose I chose the one that I have, which is the premium. And so the premium and Ellie, I know it'll work in. People are asking me about the pro. I don't have a pro. I've seen a pro. I know the layout up there is different. it won't work the same but i could possibly remake it somehow um but i'm not thinking about that yet i'm i'm i'm pretty much making it for myself and then whoever has the same game that i have um but yeah it's crazy how it moves and stuff too scott sent me a video after he installed it man this thing is so cool does it going up and down oh it does more than that i you know i'm actually glad that you uh you I saw your video of it just sliding back and forth because someone said you know does it just light up um well that was when I finished actually sculpting it which honestly took most of the summer I because I once I once I decided I was going to do it I just kind of did little bits and pieces you know maybe maybe at night I worked on the eyes and the next day it would work on the mouth or something like that. But when I finished it, I thought, well, this is a really cool little looking toy, but how is it going to work in the game? And then we come up to the question of me trying to fit it. And then I thought, well, what if you could actually make it even more fun and turn it kind of into a bash toy? So it's a bash toy. It actually comes up onto the game and sits on top of the captive ball when it's facing forward. And that's the only position that it does that. And once it's facing the captive, once it's sitting on top of the captive ball, you have this right here. And every time the ball is hit, this knocks him. It jumps up. So you can actually, yeah, you can whack him, which is really fun because it's just really fun to hit a physical object there that is just asking to be hit. They're just kind of hovering over the top. So I was happy when I figured that, but that took a long time to figure out because I'm not an engineer. So those that are listening, if you look at, we'll have this as the picture of the episode, but at the very bottom in the back under the feet, there's a little switch so every time it's rests on top of the captive ball so you hit that captive ball it will actually activate eddie or the sarcophagus and make him jump name's gust gust oh okay sarcophagus oh okay i had to stick with the name it can't be the e it can't be the well it's the mummy shot right yeah yeah exactly exactly but yeah that's that's what makes it unique to that that mechanism so so when people are asking if it's if it fits in the pro it will fit but i would either just do the front of it and i don't know how i would make it configure as a sort of bash tour that is so right but we'll see yeah now it's okay this is your fifth mod from my counting so you had the witch yeah which which 1.0 yeah you have flying monkey yeah and then i made the witch again yeah and then that was the 2.0 yeah you have then you have the the crystal ball yes which was which was really just supposed to be a little side project because programming the the second witch was taking so long and that was out of my hands i had a friend who's uh here in town my friend manny is a computer guy so an electronics guy so he designed the chip for it he was doing all the programming i really couldn't do anything at that point except tell them what I wanted. So yeah, the crystal ball became, it was just like a side project. Yeah. Yeah. And so this is the fifth one. Yeah. Okay. Now this is the challenge though. A lot of times the mod community in pinball is very specific and you kind of, and which people realize it is a true limited edition because there are people who are still looking for the flying monkey mod they're still looking for the a witch available which they're still looking for all these things so i this is by definition a labor of love oh so question yeah definitely so what is it that that i this obviously takes hours and hours and hours upon your time so what is it that drives someone to do a mod like that i mean these are not it there's a lot of mods that i would say are lazy mods when they go they buy a hot wheels car they uh tape some led lights on them and then try to sell them for 80 dollars with a post yeah okay and that's not this i mean this is this is truly a work of art and so what what drives you to put this much passion into it uh i love it i love creating something new and I love having, I love having the limitations of, of what I'm given. You know, it's like, I'm not in the room at Stern or at Jersey Jack or wherever saying, yeah, I need, I need another inch there to fit what I want to put in. It's, it's truly, you're limited. So it's almost like you have a limited palette of what to use. And to me, that's a real challenge. And then I, I realized I like working with Joshua Clay. I really think it's fun. And the better that I got at it, the more I enjoy just sculpting things. And I've gotten to where I do something like this. This to me is the hardest thing I've ever done. But I love the way it turned out. But it's a challenge. You know, it's like finishing a puzzle or something. And then how do you get it to fit? And then can you make it do something that's unique and interesting as opposed to just like you said, you know, gluing a hot wheel onto a game? So yeah, it's a lot of fun. It was just it was just something I did for myself at first. And then, uh, uh, once, once the pandemic happened, cause I'm primarily an actor or musician or singer, um, with, with theater. And when I came back here to San Diego, which is where I'm from, I was working here for a while and doing okay. But obviously that, that industry took a big hit. Um, so sitting at home and finding a way to be creative and have some sort of creative outlet, this has been great because I do feel very creative. I feel completely in control of what I'm doing. And it's rewarding. It's hard. It's really, really hard. It took me hours. And I could do something with a 3D printer, like a lot of people do, which is fine. Number one, I don't know how to run a 3D printer. and I don know how to design in CAD I got some friends who help me when I need something specific Like this for example the base on this mod fits very specifically onto the mechanism So I did, once I figured this out, let me show you this. This is the piece, and this is balsa wood and Joshua Clay of the base. And so I needed to get an exact version of this. And so I went off to the mod couple, my friend Dave, and I said, can you make something with your 3D printer just so I can have all the holes lined up? Because I knew that part of the game was not going to change. And then the sculpture and everything is, you know, I can do on my own. And those tolerances can change a little bit. But actually sitting on that mechanism had to be real specific. But, yeah, it takes a long time to figure that out. Then once I do want to replicate it, it's about making a silicone mold, casting the resin. You've got to sit around. You've got to pour the resin. You've got to pull it out. You've got to sand all those pieces, then paint it. And you do this one at a time? You cast it, or do you have multiple? No, I cast it one at a time. I have two pieces right now I put on my thread, two boxes of silicone that look like this. and this is the base and then the sarcophagus is in the back but yeah there's there's no shortcut for that you got to stick around and and wait for them or try to do something else in the meantime and you know 20 minutes go in the garage and pop it out and pour another one and go back to doing something else so it's that part is is monotonous but it's it's fun I think initially when I made the first witch, I thought it would just be fun to put a toy in a pinball machine. I thought that would be just a fun little chapter in my life. You know, wow, there's a, there's a toy that's all over the world in a pinball machine. And I was going to make as many as I could. And then, and then once I really started getting tired of it, I was like, okay, 200 something is enough, you know, for now. So, uh, uh, but yeah, I think to answer your question, I just think it's very rewarding um creatively and i think that i let's see when did i message you and beg you to build something was that on the flying monkey or was that the first uh witch mod oh my gosh i don't remember it was a long time ago that was a long time ago because and you and ironically you randomly asked a question about rush and i responded with a probably way more intense of a a response about rush history yeah right now josh is like oh my god more rush time more rush thought we were taking a break from rush yeah well our friend jeff rivera that runs the pinball podcast he says that iron maiden is just like if rush got drunk and decided to do metal so yeah which is is kind of true they they actually are both excellent bands and they have interesting lyrics so uh kudos there's three guys in one band there's six guys in another yeah so yeah they both sound loud okay so i find that interesting that you i mean this is basically how many you're making so when you actually go to to market this like i you obviously have to set something for yourself i mean this this probably takes a couple hours per piece for you to build oh no question yeah because you have to build it you're you're painting it you're sanding it you're assembling it you're wiring it yes uh i'm wiring it on and then i i obsess over the colors the paint that i'm going to be using um which you know will it match the game will it match the other pieces is it true to the original piece uh so i just i get so detailed i drive my wife trisha crazy absolutely nuts you know they when i went when i worked on the wizard of oz i was in a different house and i had it right next to me in the garage and in this new house they were living and i've got a game room but it's like across the living room you know inside the house you know so i've trisha jokes that i like blazed the trail or burned a trail between the game room and the garage because I've gone back and forth so many times just to see if something works or fits or whatever, you know. But yeah, I just, you know, I love it, but it takes a long time, but it's rewarding. I do have one analysis, though. There is one problem with your sarcophagus. I'm ready for it. Okay. It's too good compared to what Stern put in the game. I know. Well, you know what? I only know that because that's what you said, which is so nice. Because if you look at if you look at I know if you look at his sarcophagus, that is definitely it feels like Derek Riggs, who's the original artist for Iron Maiden. It feels like he designed it. If you look at the two sculpts that they put in there, I don't know who designed them, but they are certainly not stylistically consistent with the band. And so that's – the crazy thing is when you look at what Janos Kiss is compared to the other ones, you think that – Hey. You think that should be OEM in the machine as opposed to the other two things. I've done my job then. Trust me. I went above and beyond because I had no idea how I was going to do this by hand, like zero idea. I knew that I wanted to do it, but I didn't – I knew it would be really, really hard. And one of the coolest new things – because every time I make something new, I try to discover some new aspect of what I'm doing. And for this particular mod, I went online and I saw that you can physically shrink silicone. If you mix silicone with mineral spirits, if you cut them like one part to one part, once it hardens, it will gas out and the whole thing will keep its shape and it will shrink. And it doesn't shrink a lot. It shrinks like 20%. But it actually will shrink. And so I thought, okay, well, I want a ton of detail in this thing. So what if I do it a little bit bigger? and that way I can get a ton of detail into it and then let's see if I can shrink it down let's see if this whole thing works and if it doesn't work then I've got you know this this cool little topper thing or whatever it's going to be um but I'd love to see it work and I saw people doing it online and it was working the the problem is it takes a really long time for for it to actually gas out but it does shrink so I know the podcast isn't going to be able to see this people but this this is the oh wow and this is like seven inches big but i got all the detail in this way this is all these are bamboo skewers these are nails that i just i put in his helmet and you know it's actually a very sharp little sculpture uh and this is what i cast with this whole idea of shrinking it down and it worked and it i got it to like half the size i needed it to go and then i had to shrink it one more time and i finally got it roughly to where you can see that's like 30 that that's pretty amazing i didn't realize you had to you know okay that's how they do coins did you know that no like yeah that's great so if you look like they actually have a machine that they now i don't know if they do it now but it used to be massive i mean the coins would be this big and they would trace them and it would scale it when it would uh move a you know a different arm in a small way and make the actual size and so that's how they had so much detail in coins yeah what's yeah i mean to me all that stuff is just a huge mystery and because everything i'm doing is working with my hands and Joshua Clay and all this. I'm like, I'm like, I think this will work. I think this might work. I actually shrunk it too far in my last shrink and it went like too small. And I was like, well, it fits, but it's kind of like, you know, all this work and the thing's just a little too small. So I, I, you can, you can put it back in mineral spirits and kind of make it grow up a bit, a bit. And I got it to just where it's, it's as much sarcophagus as I can fit onto that mech to show the detail and fit in with the rest of the game. But that was my big challenge was shrinking something down. And it worked. It just takes forever. I mean, it takes weeks and weeks and weeks. And I put it in a dehydrator and it's twisting and it's shrinking, but like parts of it are shrinking. And I'm like, this is never going to work. But it was the summer and I had other things to do. And I keep checking on it. And sure enough, the first one I shrunk, I'm like, this works. It's not small enough yet, but it really works. And it keeps all the detail. And I was like, I was thrilled. I think the next thing I'm going to make, I'll shrink it too. I'm just going to shrink everything now. That's impressive. It keeps the detail, though, because I would be nervous to put all this detail and it shrinks and it loses some of it, you know? No, it was fascinating. I was just watching it happen going, this is it really does work. but when you see the mod up close all the nails stood out the pointy the pointy end some of it i had to physically put on like i wasn't going to cast a chain so so the chain is actually um you know it's a piece of chain that i've stick in there and then these the the whips are actually um wire it's kind of a thicker gauge of wire but the more i played uh the game the more you see the ball flying around. There's air balls in Iron Maiden. It could get pretty brutal. I didn't want something in there that was cheap. Even the resin that I'm using is heavier than the other resin that I've used. It's like jet black resin. I don't know how to measure the hardness scale, but if the witch was like 65 whatever hard, this is like 78 hard. I don't know what that means, but it's a solid piece of plastic. So if the ball does hit it, nothing's going to happen. I hope nothing's going to happen. It actually might look cooler if it dings it up a little more. Well, actually, so ironically, I didn't realize. So when you look at it, the sarcophagus is on a slider. So just in case, I'm sure Steve will post a lot more on his Pinside post. but from a so i'm a mechanical engineer and that's really that was my major in in school really yeah so i was a mechanical engineer before i went to before i went to med school and it i thought from an engineering standpoint that you built the the sliding part as like a an energy dampener oh that's interesting because if you if it's up and you're smashing it then eventually you will probably have a fatigue and a wear spot that will fracture well that's a great point and that's the other reason i use the harder plastic is because it is it is it doesn't bounce very high trust me it's i and i don't want to bounce high because it's a sarcophagus it shouldn't yes like a jumping it's not flying into the air like the jumping like nice yeah the leapers kind of thing off elvira elvira yeah you keep the glass every time leaper head on there no but but that's what i actually thought i because if you if you actually have a fatigue joint it's just like when you cast concrete they have those fracture lines that there's a reason why there's a a score there is because when concrete expands and shrinks, you want it to fracture along that line. And so that was my initial thought. That was the reason why it was a slider is because I thought it was a momentum buffer. Well, you know what's interesting is that's something I was always toying with, and I was thinking of Monster Bash, which I love. I think the remake Monster Bash is one of the prettiest pinball machines you can ever see. It's beautiful. but I was thinking of I know the mummy's in there but I wasn't really thinking of that as the mech I was thinking more of like Frankenstein and you know how that when that falls forward his whole body falls forward and they can kind of hit him so initially I thought of maybe that as an idea the biggest issue with with where he fits is there's an opto right where his head is and you can't that's one of those limitations I told you about it's like that is not moving so whatever you make has to fit somewhere around that. So I thought maybe he could like duck under, maybe he could slide under. And then when the thing moves forward, he'd slide out and come. And so after just thinking of it over and over, I thought this was probably the best way is that once he does reach that front position, he's actually, he's lower than the ball and he'll slowly ride up on top of the pinball and then just sit there. So when that pinball does move, those Newton balls, they just don't go back and forward. They do actually go up a little bit, you know, with the spring on there. So if you do hit that, it's enough to hit him up and make him shoot. But then you got to figure out the angle and how that going to work And because I not an engineer but I have in my head what I think is going to work it really just me getting a bunch of super glue and balsa wood together and trying to make something that I think might work So, yeah, I finally settled on this, what did you call it? Something dampener? Oh, momentum dampener. Yeah, momentum dampener. damn it but that's yeah that's the design but that's what it's for is i really just wanted to physically be able to hit him somehow which is really fun when you're hitting mummy jackpots because he does light up and his eyes are blinking and it's like shoot the mummy for you know and you hit him he bounces in the air and so uh so yeah i'm i'm really happy with the way it turned out but it did take a long time so that's what that's why i didn't i kind of kept it to myself and i didn't tell anybody I was making it. You told us about it how long ago, Josh? Was that about a year ago that you had said you were working on something? It was a year ago when you said you were working on a new project, yeah. Yeah, and I had it done a long time ago. Well, not a long time, but I did have it done a while ago. I just, I got really stuck on how I was going to do the whole bashing part of it, and, and because I didn't have any sort of time restraint and, and because it was the summer and even before then, you know, when everyone's just sitting in their homes, I'm like, I'm just going to treat this kind of like a model ship and I'll do a little bit at a time every night. You know, I think I'm heading in the right direction, but, uh, you know, I really just took my time because if no one knows what I'm making, I don't feel obligated to, to really right work on them all the time and I felt that way with the monkey the monkey took me almost a year to make and I know there were some people there near the end who just yeah you know I'm like I'm sorry this took so long I'm so sorry you know I didn't ask for this list thing I mean I that's the whole other thing is I the first witch was so organic it's like I just put it out there and said hey look what I made and someone said hey make me one I said great sure then I made another and then it made another and eventually i think i was up to 200 something and and the interest died out and i just kind of went away they weren't limited they were just like all right done let's move on to something else so nothing i make is limited it's really just how long i want to do it well there's a there's certainly a cycle run i guess yeah there's that there definitely is that's why i went back to make more monkeys i know people want them i have these parts sitting in the in the garage they're not they're not going anywhere they're not doing anything so I still get people ask me for them, but there are only so many hours in the day and I just don't have the time. I could I could hire someone. I might. I don't know. In the meantime, I'm just I'm kind of happy. You know, Tricia helps me a ton. If I didn't mention the fact how how much Tricia helps me, then she would kill me. But but she really helps me. I have asked her so many times, you know, what do you think of this? you know does this look okay she's like yes it looks great yes leave me alone just make it all ready uh and she helps me with boxing and she's the one who encouraged me to do it in the first place so um i no question i would not be doing it if if my wife was not like yeah make go go for it yeah you know because i'm i sit at home hours upon hours painting you know or making pieces of plastic um but like i said i love it so so do you have a handful of these made already or you just i have five of them whoa that i've made these are four um well one of them's in my machine one no no that's that's the sixth one i've made technically seven i made one the first one and then i made one for scott to send off to see if it even worked and then I put five out and I just went for it but usually I'll get the plastic I'll I have to kind of have the assumption that people will like it so that is a little bit stressful especially if no one knows what I'm doing you know and I'm sitting at home and and you know there's no money coming in and I'm like I'm making something I hope people like I'm gonna make I don't know so I I got a couple gallons of this resin and I ended up making 40 of these things um so there's there's 40 pieces I've got to sand them down and clean them up and paint them and do all that stuff but um but yeah I I'd I'd like to start gradually but people are already asking for them on the thread or asking me to put on a list, which is very flattering. It's just that I don't want to feel like I'm behind, you know, people like, where is it? Where is it? I'm like, I'm trying, I'm trying. Cause you know, I gotta go out and do other things. This isn't your full-time gig. Well, right now it is, but no, it's not generally, you know, I, you know, I do have a life and it, and it takes hours. I wish it didn't, but it does. And I really, really thought about this one before I even made it. Just how can I do something that's going to make it quicker? So I made sure the molds are really clean so there's not a lot of sanding. I made the lines very distinct on the sculptures. When I do go to paint it, I just have to line it with tape, and I know where all the lines are, and they're all going to be exactly the same or close enough. and I really thought about that because I know how much time on those other mods I spent going back to fix things or sanding pieces or cleaning pieces and it really takes a ton of time so yeah this is like the best that I can do right now so I'm happy with that well I do know I don't know how to pronounce this guy's name Joe Abate I had posted a picture of it and he had uh said that's amazing but he missed out on the flying monkey mod so if you ever go and make another one of them yeah you can contact joe abate you know what that's that's a great problem i'm not i'm not saying oh i'm not making more i love it i i'm just i'm not hoarding stuff going no none for you i just really don't have the time and and if i'm not interested enough to do it, I'd much rather do this because this is exciting for me. It's brand new and people like it. You know, so far what I've seen and when they get better pictures and I send them, you know, and I post some other stuff, I think they're really going to like it. I think it fits the game really well. And going back to what you said about it looks better than those things, it's very nice of you. Maybe I need to like, I don't know, not paint it so well. it's kind of slapping on there like yeah that one's good enough but i can't i that would drive me crazy i really have to like stare at this thing and make sure everything is working well um and that's just the way i am you know so the real question is is your next mod gonna be for rush then since you're such a big rush fan you know it's funny because people ask that um but i I gave the best answer that I could on the thread. When did Iron Maiden get made? When did that game come out? Four years ago. Well, I'll have my LE ready to test your prototype because my LE is not going anywhere. Oh, my God. Neither is mine. I can't wait. But I generally – because, I mean, I see people. I see people already making mods for it. It's like the game hasn't even shown up yet. There's so many mods. and and i think the best way for me to make something is to play it for a long time and go okay where's the limitation on that and then once the interest kind of dies away then i'll you know i'll try to make something i think would enhance it not necessarily just kind of stomp all over it but like maybe you know just because of their budget limitations maybe someone there really wanted this thing but they didn't have the money for it you know at stern or jersey jack and it was and they cut it out and and maybe i'm i can imagine that this is what they wanted um so yeah i mean and in terms of fitting it i knew it had to look like the game or or it had to be relevant to iron maiden i can't just lots of people put this sort of stuff in this little like esophagus or esophagus uh esophagus i'm not gonna say that for the last time uh people put this thing in and other things and i just wanted it to look like it was stock and for the real for the real iron maiden fan when you see it uh it's very definitely their sarcophagus when they were on tour with power slave in in in uh 84 i think the world's slavery tour world slavery tour yeah they had this sarcophagus and there's pictures of bruce dickinson's leaning up against it and it's it's a simpler version and then when they did their uh somewhere back in time to in 2008 they had the same sarcophagus but it's just a better version of it. And so that's where I went. I'm like, I know I want a sarcophagus. I'm not going to sit around and paint hieroglyphics on the thing, you know, forever and ever and ever. Maybe there's something that's pertinent to Iron Maiden that looks stock. And that's what I, that's what I wound up with was this, this sarcophagus that was on their stage when they were on tour. And that was the other challenge is like, can I replicate something five inches big for something I've never physically seen. Just go off of photos and screenshots of their concert footage. The whole thing has just been a real challenge, but it's been really fun. I'm glad people like it because I put a ton of work into it. Yeah. That looks pretty cool. Thank you. Talk about attention to detail. That is absolutely unbelievable. Thank you. There are parts of it, because I started it so long ago, I don't remember how I did certain sections of it. Like I said, I know the sticks were bamboo skewers, and I know the nails, but the rest of it, I don't – it's all Joshua Clay. I just don't remember when I did it. I started with a small little plastic skull, a little skeleton skull, and then I just started laying Joshua Clay on top of that, and that's what this is. there's a little plastic skeleton head in there somewhere. Oh, cool. I just started building on top of it and making stuff. So two questions for amateur mod people out there who want to start modding themselves. What are three pieces of advice? Oh, my gosh. I don't know. Make it look like it fits in the game. And I don't care what it is. You can 3D print something magnificent. If it looks like it belongs in the game, you know, or it can be really small, it can be really big. But just make it look stock. Try to make it look stock. And don't rely too much on 3D printers. I'm going to go down in flames. You know, the guy with the notepad and the pencil. I'm going to design my next mod next to the guy. Like, I've already designed it. Ah. One day I'm going to learn how to 3D print. I just don't know how. So there's really no rhyme or reason you do these, right? Like, it's not like one day you just wake up and you're like, oh, I need a mod Iron Maiden. Oh, no, I've already got. Oh, trust me. I have already two big ideas circling in my head that I want to do. I just don't have the time. For other games or for – can we ask? No, it's always going to be for whatever I own. Okay. And I don't have a huge collection. I'm going to make it for myself. Get this man a Godzilla. Oh, my God. No, Godzilla is modded within an inch of its life already. No, it could use more. Jeez. Okay. People are doing that game. I was like, I'm not even getting near that game. The challenge, though, is you know you go over to that person's house. that has like a thousand troll dolls on the mantle or just something that's just so over the top that it becomes clutter. I mean, that's that's the art of modding. The art of modding is to know where to put something and where to keep it empty space. Well, yeah. And, you know, there's a fine line between modding and just having like your own grown up dollhouse. I mean, people feel that thing with like I've seen some games at Simpsons, you know. Yeah, this is really asking for it. But when I started, I think like the the the big one was Twilight Zone. And I thought that was great. It's like everything on the play field was being replicated somehow. You know, three dimensionally. I thought that was great. But but now that people are learning how to 3D print and it's cheaper and it's easier. I mean, these things come out left and right. I don't know. It's going back to the rush real quick. I saw the guy who already 3D printed the whole back line to their time machine tour. I was like, how did you do that so quickly? But are you going to fit it into the game Right Does it make sense to fit it in the game or is it just this thing that you design um and i think that the real challenge is it you have to put it in so it doesn't look like you just found it on a shelf and stuck it in the game well and that's what makes me chuckle is you're saying this and it's bringing me back to the first pinball machine that I went out and bought, the gentleman's house I went to, he was obsessed with modding. This is before 3D printers and stuff like this. This was almost a decade ago. And he had a no good gophers. And his brilliant idea of modding was, is taking AstroTurf and, and gluing it to the inside of the pinball machine on the apron and as the side. And I'm like, and he was very proud of it. And I didn't want to, you know, I didn't say anything. I was like, oh, yeah, that's really nice. Why AstroTurf? Well, you know, hey, I'm super guilty. My Indiana Jones was like, you know, you had to machete your way through all the plastic jungle plants I stuck in there for a while. It's just, you know, it's just one of those things. I totally get it. I have no problem with people modding their machines. I think I'm flattered if people want to buy mine, if someone's selling their machine and it's coming with it and they want it. I think that's great. I couldn't ask for more than that. But, yeah, I think that's the number one rule. You have to make it look stock and you have to make it look good. And I know I mentioned this on the last time I was talking to you, but when I started, there were just random people doing things. I know this guy named Swinks. I don't know his real name. that might be his real name, but when he did the Snack Bar mod for Creature from the Black Lagoon, it's real small, but it's real subtle, and it's great, putting neon down there. The Tron machine, whoever did that, the little arcade machine is so great. For me, it was the guy, I think his name is Jeff now, because I went back to look at his thread, but it's the T-Rex that he made for the Data East Jurassic Park. Oh, yeah. And yeah, and I remember mentioning this to you, but if people, I don't know if you can find the link to it, I can send you a link, because the thread doesn't come up anymore, so it'd be really hard to find. But the talent that this guy had, and he was a legitimate sculptor, but he didn't, I think he did stop motion animation at one point, but he made this T-Rex out of Joshua Clay. And I was just like, wow, that to me was the coolest thing I've seen. So I always think of that guy when I'm making something. It's like, well, I know he made a T-Rex, so I can try to work something better. I'm getting better at it. But that sort of stuff inspires me. I remember looking at buying this mod because I used to have a Data East Jurassic Park. And it never made sense to me, the T-Rex that they put in there, because it looks nothing like the movie T-Rex. Like, nothing. Not the same color, not the same sculpt. I'm like, what is this? It looks like a plucked parrot. Are you on the thread? I am on the thread. So here, I think it's like, JP, improve T-Rex, work in progress. Yes. And don't be fooled by the 3D print stuff, because what he tried to do was, there was such a demand. I think he maybe made 30, maybe? It says by winter is coming. Yes. but he once he was done the thing was such in high demand and he thought well I'm going to try to 3D print it so he does go that route near the end and I don't know if he even finished the project the thread is that he's 3D printing but you have to go back to the original thread and what I noticed after rereading it is I'm kind of following his template like exactly where he was showing everybody what he was doing with the Joshua Clay I don't do it so much more, but when I was making the first witch, he was showing his mistakes. He's showing, I don't know how I'm going to do this. And, you know, bit by bit and piece by piece, he just kind of showed it. And then this list kind of gradually developed of people that, you know, wanted him to make one for them. But I love that thread. If you could bring that thing back up, it's great to look at because it's so much talent. Oh, yeah. And it's a good looking, it is a fantastic looking T-Rex. And, you know, it's funny. it's great. And you know, what's funny about it too, is when he did decide to 3d print it, I remember a comment somewhere, it's must be on the thread, but he said something like, ah, I, it drives me crazy that it's not symmetrical, you know, which is the hardest thing to do when you're making something by hand. Symmetrical symmetry is very easy when it's in a computer. Um, in fact, for this thing, I thought the top would be the hardest and that's why I did the top first but the bottom turned it turned out to be the hardest thing for me to do because i had to keep all these lines straight and when it's small it's it's really hard to do uh so you know anyone can do that sort of stuff by hand is i think it's great you know not knocking anybody else but but that to me that that that struck a chord with me just physically trying to manipulate this thing with your hands we can't say it enough it's it is a good looking mod I hate to even call it a mod because it feels like it should be part of the game this feels like it should be on the LE that's what it feels like it should be part of the feature matrix that Stern releases you know that would be awesome if this thing got popular enough to where they could go into code and do some little bonky sound whenever you hit him something because it's there but it's not you know it's not loud but it's there uh but yeah well i mean we'll see i i took it farther than i could have i mean it's kind of like i said with the limitations that's about as much as you can do with that mech um but but thank you i'm really happy with it i'm actually thrilled that you like it yeah no it is fantastic and um i'm sorry even if i sell iron maiden um Janos Kiss is staying with me. I have zero desire of selling Iron Maiden just because of the two bands, I know that I'm a weirdo and an outlier, but the two bands that I would definitely buy and never sell were Iron Maiden and Rush, and I have accomplished my life goal. Well, good, good. Well, Trisha would have gladly had me sell Iron Maiden, but once I made the mod for it, she's like, well, now you've got to keep it. but she doesn't like the music either. But interestingly enough, she can't wait for Rush because her brother is a drummer. Oh, wow. Yeah, and her brother played, he and I played in a band years and years ago. So when he was practicing his drums, he was in the garage next to her bedroom, just always playing moving pictures. And so she knows all this stuff by heart. So I'm not driving her crazy if I play Rush. She knows it. She's like, oh, yeah. okay steve i do have a question though if people want to get one of these awesome mods if they want to get Janos Kiss in their machine what is the best way to do it i don't know yet that's my honest answer i really really really wanted to show it just to get it out there so i can't hide it anymore so trisha actually did it for me which is funny um it's gonna be on my thread okay i'll check Check his thread. Where is the thread? How can we find it? You can search my name, G-O-U-V-E-I-A, Gouveia, or just search Red Smoke Witch Mod, I think it still comes up, or just sarcophagus. Actually, I was going to say, yeah, I just actually just looked at, in the quick search I did, Iron Maiden Mod. Yours popped up first. Well, forget what I just said. Go to Iron Maiden Mod. It's one of the first ones that pop up. The title has changed. the thread that used to be Red Smoke Witch Mod is now New Iron Maiden Sarcophagus Mod by Govea. Yeah, I decided to keep the same thread just because people told me to. And there's a lot of ups and downs. It's a saga, that thread. Six years of me just talking about chickens and making stuff. But I can't go anywhere. Where am I going to go? I'm the one. It's the only thread I have. I barely post on anybody else's threads. The only one I have. But yeah, that's where you go. Iron Maiden mod. Correct, Josh? Yes. That's where I typed in and it brought right up. Awesome. Thank you. And I know we've got you some hats, but now I have some more stickers. So I'll send you some more rainbow holographic stickers I'll send down. Well, these are new. Yeah. Oh, I'm all about swag, man. which reminds me i do actually have some new hats just some test run hats uh in the works i will have them done by texas and so we should be bringing those with us to tpf to see kind of the response i guess yeah i've worn out the beanie you guys gave me so much that uh it's in so many photos i take with trisha and i i wore it on our trip she's like you gotta take the hat off oh wow i'm kidding didn't do that we need to send her stuff ask ask what she wants we'll get some we'll get some swag for her oh she'll take it i told you to get your hat it's kind of it's kind of unisex but we should find some stuff that that perhaps uh perhaps the ladies are more interested in you know because not not every hat not every head's the same and of course and i showed you your hat, oh check that out, that's nice so yeah, this is one of the samples this is a charcoal with a green I know you guys can't see it through the screen because this is a podcast that's nice Trisha, well I showed you it made our Christmas card yeah, no, we loved it yeah, but it was, you know, where am I getting we were up in Oregon, we're in the country it's a nice picture, I'm like, well it's not posed for anything that picture's fine, and you know pinball, loser kid Well, we didn't – okay, literally, we didn't even get around to doing Christmas cards this year, and we bought like 30 of those popcorn bags from Costco that we were planning on handing out. We still have 25 of those bags in the back of my van. Oh, really? Nice. Yeah. It's – I think it should have been this year. It's hard, man. It's hard to get out and get that stuff. You know, this time we all shut in. I had a couple of friends who drove around the city giving cookies. It was so sweet because people live miles and miles away, but they just wanted to reconnect. But this time around, it's like, yeah, whatever. Come by and get it. Yeah. Come and get it. If you want some some some zebra popcorn, come to my house. I'll give you back. Well, Steve, we appreciate you coming on and whatnot. once again if you guys haven't checked out you need to go check out this thread give it a look over this mod is insane it's so cool thanks again it's always fun having you on oh thanks it's fun being here talking pinball is a rarity you know for me so it's nice to have to talk about it so anytime well good you got anything for us Scott before I do our little outro you know i i'm looking for the the new uh the 2.0 loser kid hat so we need to to get on that and see and supply uh supply issues that hit us like everybody else so we'll see what we can do well you'll see that you'll see a 2.0 i i made you an extra green one and then i have a red one so i'll be showing you nice anywho uh if you want to get a hold of us we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com you can also get a hold of us on facebook on Twitch, Twitter, and Instagram, all at LoserCookingPinball. Yeah, and we appreciate all those that have been reaching out. We had a lot of amazing, positive feedback from our last episode with Ed Ed Robertson of the Bare Naked Ladies. And it was amazing to have him have his perspective on Lyman. And once again, if you're struggling or anything like that, we're here to listen. We can get you to the right people to talk to if you're having worse thoughts, I guess. So like Ed said, you're worth it in this world, and we don't know what we'd do with that. Yeah, and I'll add to that. We actually had a very unfortunate accident with a bully situation here in Utah. Sorry, I talked with my kids about this. We had a sad situation here in Utah. where a 12-year-old took his own life because of bullying. So be very aware of your kids. This is a hard time for them too. So please reach out to them. Tell them you love them. Tell them that they matter. And make sure that you know what's going on in their life too because it's easy to focus on us and it's sometimes hard to realize that we need to reach out beyond us too and especially take care of the ones who are the most vulnerable, which are our kids. So, um, just, um, want to focus on what's most important and pinball is always fun, but family is most important. So, so, well, we'll leave it on that note. I guess we'll see you guys in two weeks.