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Episode 22 - That SOUNDS good

Special When Lit·podcast_episode·58m 3s·held·Nov 13, 2018
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.032

TL;DR

Special When Lit hosts discuss Beatles release, restoration projects, and budget pinball recommendations.

Summary

Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb discuss pinball casually rather than covering news, focusing on The Beatles official release, Transformers (LE) restoration project with support from Stern's technical team, and a fascinating profile of Wally, a retired Chicago-area enthusiast who painstakingly re-engineers games like NBA Fastbreak into Scared Stiff and Cactus Canyon from scratch. They also discuss budget recommendations for family holiday pinball purchases and current market pricing trends.

Key Claims

  • Beatles by Stern has been officially released

    high confidence · Ken and Bill, hosts discussing main news story of the week

  • Bill is rebuilding a Transformers Limited Edition machine with new harness support from Stern's technical team

    high confidence · Bill Webb describing his restoration project and Stern support from Chaz and Pat

  • Wally, a Chicago-area retiree, re-engineers games like NBA Fastbreak into Scared Stiff and other titles from scratch

    high confidence · Bill Webb providing detailed account of cabinet work for Wally's custom builds

  • Wally does not own a cell phone, only a landline

    high confidence · Bill Webb recounting communication challenges with Wally during cabinet building

  • Scared Stiff machines sell for $6,000-$7,000

    medium confidence · Ken speculating on Scared Stiff market pricing during budget discussion

  • Used Stern Pro machines are good entry-level buys in the low to mid-$4,000 range

    medium confidence · Bill suggesting budget pinball recommendations for family holiday gifts

  • Earthshaker machines are now in the $2,200 to $3,200 range

    medium confidence · Ken recommending budget-friendly System 11 pins for holiday purchases

Notable Quotes

  • “it's a good thing we're not talking about the good thing is on the left during you know it says special when lit i saw that on the insert so left lane special when lit do you think stern was paying homage to the podcast”

    Ken Cromwell @ early in episode — Humorous observation about a potential Easter egg in Beatles Stern referencing their podcast name

  • “He's the craziest dude on the face of the earth with pinball.”

    Bill Webb @ mid-episode, introducing Wally — Emphatic characterization of Wally's dedication to custom pinball restoration

  • “doesn't own a cell phone... His life has to be simple.”

    Ken Cromwell @ Wally profile section — Reaction to learning about Wally's lack of modern communication technology

  • “It's the project. We should have him on if he's ever motivated.”

    Bill Webb @ discussing Wally's motivation — Insight into Wally's driving motivation for expensive restorations being the craftsmanship itself rather than cost savings

  • “I love it, man. I love it. It's not the pro. It's the premium LE model. and just having a great, great, great time with it.”

    Ken Cromwell @ discussing his Deadpool machine — Strong endorsement of Deadpool Premium LE as a quality family machine

  • “there is no pinball machine that will keep anybody's interest in between 5 and 15. No, not long term.”

    Bill Webb @ holiday gift discussion — Realistic assessment of pinball appeal for young children in gift-buying context

  • “I saw one listed for $6,500 basically and I'm like, what is done to this game?”

    Ken Cromwell @ discussing Bram Stoker's Dracula pricing — Reaction to perceived price inflation for heavily modded machines on secondary market

Entities

Ken CromwellpersonBill WebbpersonWallypersonJake DanzigpersonJake DanzigpersonChazpersonPatpersonMikepersonSpecial When Lit Pinball Podcastorganization

Signals

  • ?

    announcement: Beatles by Stern officially released

    high · Ken and Bill open episode discussing Beatles as 'main news story this week' and 'official release' and 'official announcement'

  • ?

    product_concern: Bill Webb concerns about Transformers LE wire harness reliability and seeks to replace with newly manufactured harness

    high · Bill states he's stalled on Transformers project due to harness concerns and worked with Stern technical team to source new harness manufacturing

  • ?

    restoration_signal: Wally undertakes meticulous re-engineering of vintage games (NBA Fast Break, Medieval Madness) into different titles (Scared Stiff, Cactus Canyon) with custom harnesses and components

    high · Bill describes Wally's process: 'take it all apart, re-engineer it, make a new harness, make all new parts, anything I can't find, and build a Skirt Stiff basically essentially from scratch'

  • $

    market_signal: Pinball secondary market pricing showing upward trend; Bram Stoker's Dracula with mods listed at $6,500 when historically in $3,000-$4,000 range

    high · Ken observes $6,500 listing on Pinside for heavily modded Bram Stoker's Dracula and questions the pricing

  • $

    market_signal: Used entry-level Stern Pro machines available in low-to-mid $4,000 range as budget-friendly family options

    medium · Bill recommends 'Stern Pros right now seem to be really good buys in the low to mid-fours, like the used machines'

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.174

0:00
Broadcasting live from the Two Brothers Pinball Pale Ale Craft Beer Studios, this is the Special When Lit Pinball Podcast.
0:13
The Special When Lit Pinball Podcast starts now. Thanks for hitting that start button and taking the plunge.
0:23
Here are your hosts, Ken Cromwell and Bill Webb. Hey, what's going on, Pinball Land? It's episode number 22 of the special and lit pinball podcast. I'm Ken Cromwell. I'm Bill Webb. And we are going to do our best to keep you informed and entertained for the next 40, 50 minutes or so. And probably more entertained than informed. Or, yeah, it's not going to be an informative episode, and I'll tell you why. I think, what, the main news stories this week has been the official release of Beatles by Stern. Correct. The official announcement. and we were kind of talking about this earlier you've probably gotten your fix of beatles information from online all the other podcasts so i don't think there's any reason for us to kind of rehash this no congratulations to stern right we're happy you've got this out absolutely and you know what one one sidebar about the game it's a good thing we're not talking about the good thing is on the left during you know it says special when lit i saw that on the insert so left lane special when lit do you think stern was paying homage to the podcast absolutely i'm gonna go with that too yeah because there's anything like in an in lane out lane artwork it's like a pretty precarious place to be but i'll take it as the special when lit insert yeah i mean they just forgot to put podcast on there so pinball podcast when you get your but but who really needs to know you know what special when it is yeah i mean it's you know it's it's a household name it is you know like pepsi and coke um right you got to take the uh the special lit pinball podcast challenge We're going to have you listen to two podcasts. Absolutely. You have to tell us which one you like the most. So we're going to switch up this episode a little bit. We've got a busy few weeks. We do. I'll let you continue, and then I'll interject. No, go ahead. Interject now. But you know what? I've got this mission. While we're still on the stern, I do want to send a shout-out to Chaz in the technical department for helping me out later last week. What did Chaz do for you there, Bill? Chaz helped me get all the part numbers for the Transformers wire harness that I would need to rebuild the Hurricane Sandy Edition game. Hurricane Sandy Edition Transformers. Yes, which has been kind of stalled because I didn't want to use the original harness. And I haven't figured out, I didn't want to build an entire harness from scratch, because I don't have that time with a three-year-old and family obligations. So, you know, he helped me get all the part numbers and everything, talked with who we needed to talk to, to facilitate getting that built. How did that go? You're just like, hey, can I get a new Transformers LE wire harness? And Chaz is like, sure. Yeah, no problem. No, it was a couple. Because it's out of stock, right? That's not something that's just sitting in a shelf somewhere at Stern, correct? Well, half of the harness is because it's used in multiple games. So that part was fine. To connect boards? Yeah. Okay. But the other three. The dedicated one for the switches and everything. The dedicated one for the switches, for the RGB, or for the LEDs.
Stern Pinballcompany
Chicago Gaming Companycompany
Two Brothers Pinball Pale Ale Craft Beer Studiosvenue
Beatlesgame
Transformers Limited Editiongame
Scared Stiffgame
NBA Fastbreakgame
Medieval Madnessgame
Cactus Canyongame
Monster Bashgame
Deadpoolgame
Guardians of the Galaxygame
Aerosmithgame
Earthshakergame
Pinsideorganization
?

product_strategy: Chicago Gaming Company potentially planning Cactus Canyon remake following Monster Bash success, though code completion uncertain

medium · Ken asks 'You think CGC is going to re-pop Cactus Canyon?' and Bill responds 'I think so. Yeah. Well, I mean, they said that they would already. I think they said that it was on their list'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Ken's son lists Scared Stiff, Deadpool, and Apple Tree as favorite pinball machines, indicating these games have strong casual/family appeal

    medium · Ken recounts: 'My son... he's like, hey, Dad, can I be a guest on the podcast?... he literally, he's like, Scared Stiff... and he said, and Deadpool. And then Apple Tree.'

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Deadpool praised for flow, fun factor, and playability despite minor design preferences; positioned as strong family machine

    medium · Ken states: 'Deadpool is... I like it a lot. It's just there's something about that game that just keeps me kind of coming back. It's fun. It's flowy.'

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Monster Bash remake received as 'overwhelmingly received beautifully by the community' after six months of hype, setting positive expectations for future CGC remakes

    medium · Bill notes 'After six months of hype for it getting released... it's out there and it's doing its job'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Stern Pinball technical staff (Chaz, Pat) praised for responsive, helpful customer support and willingness to support customer restoration projects

    high · Bill credits Chaz and Pat with excellent support and notes 'you're better just calling and leaving a message than doing the email thing. And those guys get back to you. And they're more than willing to help out.'

  • $

    market_signal: Vintage game prices have inflated significantly; games in $2,000-$3,000 range a year ago now $3,000-$4,000; pricing dynamics confusing market participants

    medium · Bill states: 'a lot of those pins that were two to three thousand maybe a year ago like even like a fishtails... have now crept into the three to four thousand dollar range'

  • ?

    content_signal: Special When Lit episode pivots from news coverage to casual conversation format due to light news week and ongoing illness in pinball podcast community

    high · Ken explains: 'I think... the main news stories this week has been the official release of Beatles by Stern... we were kind of talking about this earlier you've probably gotten your fix of beatles information... so i don't think there's any reason for us to kind of rehash this... Let's not worry about covering news stories'

    • 3:14
    And then one more. and I can't think of it. That's okay. But, yeah, so you know what? A big shout-out to Chaz Ann Stern and Dorothy in the parts department. So they're going to hook you up with a harness and sell you one? Well, I've got to still buy it, yeah, and I still have to purchase it through a distributor. Well, just the fact that they're willing to make it again. I mean, you know, I've got so much money tied up into this game that if it's not absolutely 100% flawless and better, you know, new old stock or better, then there's no point in doing it. And that was like the Achilles heel of this game because everyone's like, so you built a new cabinet, new play field, all the stuff's powder-coated, looks beautiful, new plastics, new boards, just basically swept the credit card and ordered everything up that we needed. I'm kidding about that.
    4:01
    I'm at the point now of it costing more than a brand-new inbox. Are there any brand-new inbox Transformer LEs? I don't even know that there are any really. You see one every three months pop up somewhere. Okay. But what do they go for, new in box? 65. 65 to 69 now. So what you're doing with yours, I mean, you've got to be in that price range as well. I mean, everything's brand new on yours, and you're making improvements on some things. Yeah. So are you going to sell that one too? You've got two major projects coinciding with one another or running side by side with Whirlwind. And Transformers. Well, Transformers is sitting dormant right now because I really just had a hard time thinking about putting that harness. And you know what? It's not that the harness is bad, but I don't know if it's good either, and I don't want to put all that time into that. You don't want to find out when it's too late. I totally understand that. So for that extra peace of mind. You're being proactive. This thing's got to last eternity with how it's built. So it was just real refreshing to have a lot of support from Chaz. And shout out to Pat, too, because he's helped me on other things in this endeavor with Transformers. I've dealt with both Chaz and Pat on a couple different things with pins that I've purchased. And you're right. I mean, in my personal experience, you're better just calling and leaving a message than doing the email thing. And those guys get back to you. And they're more than willing to help out. They're just nice guys, too. I mean, too many nice people in pinball. So it's good. It's good. You know, when you think about the customer service aspect of that, nobody really wants to have to be calling for technical support. But if you do, I mean, those are two of the guys that you probably want to talk to. Oh, yeah. My head's off the jersey deck, too. I mean, they've got good tech support when I've had to call. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, long to the short, just wanted to send a shout-out to them.
    5:46
    Thanks, guys, for all your help. Looking forward to finally getting back to this project once 401 is done. 401 stalled out over the weekend as family obligations kind of took precedent. Yeah.
    5:57
    So I'm hoping this week to get the garage set up to start spraying the cabinet. And hopefully, you know, by the end of Thanksgiving, and I'm hoping to have it stickered and ready to drop off at the paint shop so they can clear coat it. Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing that too. Once you get that done, I mean, it's nice to be able to just kind of work internally on that machine and get it ready to go. Well, that's the hard part. I mean, right now we're in Chicago. The weather's starting to get real bad. Not real bad. Honestly, this time of year it's starting to get a little bit uglier than normal. So heating the garage up to work on it is starting to get a little expensive. but uh you know so once that's done it'll be nice because then i can bring it inside work on it yep move forward so that's a small price to pay for your uh sanity and getting these pins down yeah yeah but we've both been kind of fighting off the the podcast plague illness that seems to be hitting other podcasters i was listening uh this past week where i you know uh dennis creasel and uh dennis and tony from eclectic gamers podcast they're recovering from from illness uh Greg Bone, who co-hosted This Week in Pinball with Zach. Greg was coming off an illness. We're kind of coming off like fighting these lingering colds. So my hope is, you know, first I want to apologize if our audio, our lacking audio content is even more lacking today. I'm hoping that the bubonic plagues is behind us so that by the time the holidays hit, you know, we're kind of past it. So when you've got kids, they're like little Petri dishes. They bring that stuff home from daycare or PK3 or freaking junior high, and they just bring it home to me, man. Murphy's Law. When everything's going well, the kids bring something home. Right. Period. Right. I wanted a dog. My wife wanted kids. They're getting me sick all the time. Yeah. Anyway, so I think we're – We can actually go into pinball now, yeah. And let's do this. We talked about this, you know, again, a little bit slower in the news. We've got a lot of things in the pipeline. We'll talk a little bit about that later. But let's do this, man. Let's just have a conversation. Let's just talk pinball. Okay. Let's not worry about covering news stories because other than the Beatles coming out and being released, there's really not a whole lot hot topic-wise that's worth getting into on this show on a Tuesday, Wednesday, in my opinion.
    8:07
    So let's just do it like pinball night, man. Let's sit down and let's just talk pinball. You ready? Yeah, let's do it. All right. What do you want to talk about, man? I want to talk about Jack Danzing for sending in the picture of the Batman Forever Pinball 2000. Jake Danzig? Sorry. Jack Danzing is Jake Danzig's younger brother. Long Monday. That's all right. So Bill had asked in a prior show why nobody's ever attempted a Pinball 2000 homebrew. And Jake sent us in one. It's a picture of like a Batman Forever. Actually, I think it's the one after that because it's got the Alicia Silverstone in it. So I'm not sure which one that is. But pretty cool to see it. But, you know, with anyone that's curious to see it, you know, maybe ask Jake. Yeah, well, he runs that Homebrew Pinball Facebook page. So, yeah, it's out there. It's cool. I didn't realize that anybody had done one either. No, but, I mean, just to see that, you know, somebody had the insight to do one of those. Yeah, for sure. I think it's real cool. And I think he said there was another one that might have been a Batman Forever that somebody had done or it was a follow-up or a prequel to that particular pin, and he was looking to send that to you because he realized that you had mentioned that on the podcast. So, hey, man, thanks for listening and sending that information. That's pretty cool. Oh, yeah, real cool to see. Yeah. What else? Well, we also had Wally. So, Wally is the gentleman out here in Chicagoland who will re-theme NBA fast breaks into Cactus Canyon. Well, he just re-engineers them into... Well, he's the craziest dude on the face of the earth with pinball. Give some background on this guy. All right. For those that don't know. So because we have a little bit more time than normal today, I'll actually go into the whole back story. All the time in the world. So Wally got a call last year from this gentleman. Got my number from Terry Pinball Life.
    10:00
    Looking to have a cabinet built off of a WPC-95 cabinet so he could build a Skirt Stiff. And I'm like, so you're going to take a cabinet that I build and build a game from scratch. He goes, no, I'm going to use an NBA fast break, take it all apart, re-engineer it, make a new harness, make all new parts, anything I can't find, and build a Skirt Stiff basically essentially from scratch. Now prior to the Skirt Stiff, though, he was redoing the NBA Fast Breaks and he was doing Medieval Madnesses, correct? Yes, and then further upon talking to him, he actually had done the Medieval Madness Cactus Canyon. I'm sorry, okay. And all that, you know, a few other games. So I'm like, yeah, I'd love to build you a cabinet because what you're doing is just absolutely incredible. Older gentleman, retired, nicest guy on the face of the earth, doesn't own a cell phone. I can say that's the only bad thing I can say about him because he doesn't own a cell phone. He doesn't own a phone? No, no. God bless him, dude. His life has to be simple. How does he take pictures? I didn't ask that question. Does he have a camera? He probably uses a camera and then goes on the computer. I forgot about cameras. Uploads them, yeah. Oh, my gosh. Like an SD card or something? I would imagine so. It's freaking me out. But he does have Facebook, so it's fine because you actually get to see the updates. Okay. So fast forward. So I built him a cabinet last year for that as well. I built one for Mike at Pinball Life for letting me use his cabinet to get the specs for that cabinet. Finished off Mike's cabinet. Mike finished his game last year. Monster Bash, right? Monster Bash. Yeah.
    11:23
    And then while I said, well, you know, I'm going to start working on the game in summer, and, you know, it'll be a winter project. So I just showed Ken some pictures of the head getting done. Outstanding, absolutely beautiful work. Yeah, it's very nice to see a Scared Stiff in your cabinet. I'm a big Scared Stiff fan. I've purchased two Scared Stiffs. So to see another one, now I'm like, I want to have Scared Stiff again. Oh, yeah. Well, the detail that he does everything in is just so insane. Yeah. You have to be meticulous when you're doing stuff like that. I mean, you were like that too. There's no short cuts or anything like that. No, but he is like worse. Oh, without a doubt. Wow. Without a doubt. Is that nerve-wracking for you now? Because, I mean, you hold yourself to a certain standard, which, in my opinion, is above and beyond. does this guy come in and ask for a cabinet and knowing the type of work that he does is, was it intimidating for you to make that cabinet? Or did you feel like, Hey, you know what? I'm confident. Or did you even have an idea what his reaction was going to be when you were done? You know what? I didn't know what his reaction was going to be. And actually the funny part about that whole story was literally once I started, I started sending him pictures to what I thought was his cell phone. Yeah. Come to find out, you know, I get a call from him a couple of days, you know, a couple of weeks into it. Um, and he's like, Hey, do you have any pictures of the cabinet getting built. And I'm like, yeah, I've been sending them to your phone. He's like, but it's a landline. And I'm like, oh, yeah, dude, what's your email? So I started sending him the pictures. He's like, this looks great. Which is funny because every time I call, his wife answers too. So it's just circa 1990.
    12:55
    Can Wally come to the phone, please? Can Wally come? Wally! Bill's on the phone. Yeah. Right. He said your cabinet's messed up. Right.
    13:05
    Wally. But once again, so yeah. So then he shows up, I think it was December 29th or December 30th, because the next day after that was New Year's Eve and I dropped Mike's cabinet off. Sorry for that tidbit that you didn't need. So he saw the cabinet built from scratch and he's just like, this is beautiful. It just exceeded his expectations, which I was happy about. So now to see that he's got it lined up and it's actually taking shape is a beautiful thing. And this is the thing, I'll be honest with you. I've had people say, yeah, I can build that. I can make that. And again, coming from the arcade side of things, it's very common for somebody to build a cabinet from scratch and to put either reproduce a game, you know, like a Pac-Man or something, or put like a MAME, which is like a multi-game emulator into these cabinets. And when I started off and I didn't want to really get into the woodworking aspect of it, you know, somebody's like, oh, I can build that, no problem. And then you get this thing back and you're like, whoa, this is pretty rough, man. But you don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. You don't want to be like, hey, man, I appreciate that you took 15 hours or 12 hours and assembled this, but none of my stock parts even fit on this, and this is out of square. I'm so picky about it. And pinball is even worse. I mean, and that's why when I had met you, and you're like, yeah, I build pinball cabinets. I'm like, yeah, right, who doesn't build pinball cabinets? Well, that's the funniest thing. Whenever you tell somebody you know what do you do Oh I like you know restoring games and building cabinets the first thing or within the first three sentences oh so you like to clean up cabinets and re them Yeah. And they're like, not really. I like to actually literally go down to Home Depot, buy some wood, cut some wood, and build a brand new cabinet. And then they think you're full of crap. And then they're like, here's one that I just did. And then they see a picture and they're like, oh, so you mean really like building a cabinet? Yeah. That's cool, man. I like to woodwork. I just don't have the patience involved to do pinball from scratch. I mean, I can take care of arcade stuff, most arcade stuff, but pinball's tough. Pinball's tough. It takes a certain mental level and level of patience to just do it. Just practice. That's it. I don't want to practice, man. Dude, that's why we're buddies. I know if I ever needed a cabinet, you'd help me out. Anytime. So, yeah, so that said, Wally's building the scared stiff from essentially the wrong game and turning it into a scared stiff, which is just awesome. It is pretty cool. You know, I might be able to build a cabinet. I can't build a wiring harness. What does he do with these games? He keeps them for himself. He just builds them because he wants them. Do you think at some point it might just be cheaper to buy, like, a scared stiff or medieval madness? I mean, for him, do you think it's not saving the money, but it's just knowing that he had done it, that he had completed it? Is that what kind of motivates him? Do you get the gist either way? I think it's just because he can do it. Okay. I mean, I know roughly what he had tied up into one of the medieval madnesses. I mean, you can get a decent scared stiff for $6,000, $7,000, a nice one, right? Oh, yeah.
    16:00
    Is he getting all that done under $6,000 or $7,000? Or, again, is it the project that drives him to do it? It's the project. We should have him on if he's ever motivated. I was just going to say, he'd be interesting. Even for 10 or 15 minutes, talk about cabinet building and whatnot. If he's game, we should reach out to him and see. We'll have to work on Wally. But nonetheless. But we won't call him on his cell phone. No. No, no, or Batphone. The Batphone. Yeah.
    16:23
    Love to have him on. But, yeah, so to see that was just absolutely incredible. Yeah, cool. Yeah, that's where we're at with that one. I like it. So, Wally, nice job, buddy. And nice job to you, Bill, for getting the Scared Stiff cabinet over to Wally. I'm hoping to see it when it's done. Actually, that was kind of the deal I said with him. I'm like, you know, once this is done, dude, I've got to be down there. He's like, come on down any time. We'll throw down on Cactus Canyon. and that's honestly one of the motivations for going down by his house is to play the Cactus Canyon. You like that? You think CGC is going to re-pop Cactus Canyon? I mean, it sounds like it. I think so. Yeah. Well, I mean, they said that they would already. I think they said that it was on their list, but it would not be the Cactus Canyon complete code, but I imagine they would have to either use that code or complete the code at some point because I think the drawback to that game in general was that the code felt incomplete. Yeah. You know, and interesting enough with Monster Bash Remake being like overwhelmingly received beautifully by the community. After six months of hype for it getting released. A little bit of criticizing the wait, but it's out there and it's doing its job. I wonder what is going to be the next remake, though. Is it going to be Circus Voltaire? Is it going to be a Cactus Canyon? Is it going to be a Big Bang Bar? I'd love to see Cactus Canyon. But that's just me because I haven't seen one and I haven't played one. You know, Big Bang Bar might be the one that should be remade, but, you know. I hear a lot of different opinions on Big Bang Bar. Like, is the appeal the rarity? I mean, obviously there's appeal because of the rarity, but is it a fun playing game? Does it offer replayability? I don't know. I don't have $25,000 to find out. Yeah, I've never played one.
    18:00
    Do they have it on virtual or anything? Can you play it on, I'm sure there's probably a VR table somewhere. Do you use for pinball or something? We have a decent amount of listeners. So anyone that has a Big Bang Bar, if you would like to email us at our email. Go ahead, Ken. You're better at this because I'll screw this up. Well, it's a hard email address to remember. It is specialwhenlitpinballpodcast at gmail.com. Once again, I had too much caffeine today. But if anyone has a Big Bang Bar and can give us your feedback on it, because we don't have one, we haven't played one, your honest opinion if you think it's terrible. And if you're in the Chicagoland area and you feel like having a couple of idiots come over and put a game or two on it. With two brothers pinball pail. Yeah, we'll bring the beer. Yeah. Right? I'll even order pizza. Oh, not burritos?
    18:47
    Well, I don't know where they're going to live. That's true. I don't think you want me bringing a two-hour-old burrito to your house. I would like to play on a Big Bang Bar. Yeah, absolutely. I think we're both just kind of out of it today. No, you know what? It's just been interesting. It's after the big show, and we're waiting for other things to get released. which allegedly there are still supposed to be games released before the end of the year. So I'm curious to see what those are going to be. Yeah, I mean, who knows what's next? Some people seem to know and some people seem to not know. But, you know, I was thinking about this earlier today with Christmas approaching. I would assume that probably most of the people that listen to this podcast own pinball machines. You'd like to think. And that's fine if you don't. But I'm thinking there is a little bit, a little segment of the audience that may be looking to get their first machine or maybe they've been out of pinball for a while and they just like keeping tabs on what's going on in pinball. Let me ask you this. With the holidays coming up, Christmas, let's say you are looking to get back into pinball, and instead of going out on a limb and telling the wife or the husband that you're going to buy yourself a pinball machine, you pawn it off as a Christmas gift to the family. I like it. It's a family present. Right. And I'm sure there are budgets for all those that are involved in pinball. I probably have a more humble budget on something like that versus somebody that could be a little bit more extravagant. But in your opinion, if you were going to offer a machine that would be kind of a cool first buy for somebody for a family Christmas present, say under $4,000 or $5,000, do you have anything in mind? What's a nice budget buy this winter for a Christmas or holiday gift for a family? Quote, unquote, family gift. Family gift. Well, and you've got to put theme into that, too, which kind of – Well, I mean, there's a ton of variables, right? Yeah. So if you want something that's going to be an EM, something that's going to be solid state, something that's newer LCD. So the Stern Pros right now seem to be really good buys in the low to mid-fours, like the used machines.
    20:57
    So I think that's a great entry-level pin for somebody that might, as an entry level, might have a little bit more of a higher end on their budget. But what's a good game, let's say for $3,000 or $4,000 or $2,000 or $3,000, you've got your System 11 pins that are going to be in that $2,000 to $3,000 range at this point. And you can still get some of the WPC stuff in that $2,000 to $3,000 range. What do you bring home? What do you bring home to the family? Let's do the Snorter.
    21:29
    System 11 stuff. Earthshaker. You don't see Earthshakers coming up for sale very often. They're in the $2,200 to $3,200 range now. Reasonably affordable.
    21:42
    Simple game. You don't want to get too crazy with it because then people are going to – your 12-year-old is going to be like, this game sucks because I can't play it. All right, well, so let's simplify it. Let's say you have a couple kids in the age range from 5 to 10 or 5 to 15. What do you bring home that's going to keep their interest? And I think the short answer is there is no pinball machine that will keep anybody's interest in between 5 and 15. No, not long term. I mean, you know. But do you pick – do you go? Do you get a used Guardians of the Galaxy? Around $4,300, $4,400? Is that a good pin? I think Guardians or Aerosmith would be a great pin. Aerosmith would be cool. So I'm assuming the theme Guardians might appeal to younger kids because they may have seen the movies versus kids that have no clue who Aerosmith is. But Aerosmith is another great buy, a pro at $4,500 or less. I think it's a great buy at that price, and it's simple enough where anyone should be able to understand it. I mean, even your kids, they might not understand it, but at least they'll have enough to shoot it. So this is the thing I noticed with my kids. And just like everybody does, when you step up to a machine, your first instinct is to just survive. Just flip. Don't let that ball drain. But then when you start understanding the rule sets, you understand the basic rule is, hey, aim at what's flashing. But every time my son plays, and for instance, right now, dude, we're having a blast. We've got Deadpool here. I love it, man. I love it. It's not the pro. It's the premium LE model. and just having a great, great, great time with it. My son, I just asked him today, I said, hey, what's your favorite pinball machines of all time? Because he's like, hey, Dad, can I be a guest on the podcast? And I was like, absolutely not. But what's your favorite pinball machines of all time? And he literally, he's like, Scared Stiff. I was like, huh. And he said, and Deadpool. And then Apple Tree. Yeah. And I was thinking to myself, like, right now, like, I mean, you guys know that I love Scared Stiff. I'm just talking about maybe getting a third one at some point, just after I was watching the pictures that you showed me of your pinball machine coming to fruition over there with Wally.
    23:46
    But Deadpool is, I like it. I like it a lot. It's just there's something about that game that just keeps me kind of coming back. It's fun. It's flowy. There's a couple things that I wish might have been changed. But all in all, man, I'm having a really good experience with Deadpool, so I'm happy to have it in my possession for now. Well, and the Pro isn't a whole lot different than the Premium and the LE. I mean, there's obviously more stuff in it, but even if you got a Deadpool used one at the $5,200 mark, that's still a great buy. I can only speak for the LE Premium, but I'm having fun. So do you go buy a Beatles machine for $8,000? No, I don't have that kind of budget. So I would be more humble and get two pins because that's just what I would do. Do you get a Jersey Jack Hobbit for $6,300, a smog edition? You know what? I have one in the basement. I like the game. I like it a lot. But I still need to get my Wizard of Oz sooner or later. Yeah, you're still looking for the Wizard of Oz. Yeah. So that's probably going to be the next one that I get. Okay. But that's not really a family pin. It doesn't qualify in the $5,000 mark. Do you just wait for Oktoberfest? That's January, though. It's after the holidays. It's January, February. so you can't get our Octoberfest. And I'm hoping to score Wizard of Oz sooner than that. But here, so let's break this down. Okay, so that's a great pin to bring home to the family, a Wizard of Oz. But, I mean, again, on a budget, you're at like $9,000 or $9,500 for a new Ruby Red, right? Yeah, which I'm probably not going to buy a brand-new one, but we'll see when that time comes, which is rapidly approaching. But let's go back to the question. So $2,000 to $3,000 range, I'd vote for Earthshaker. What would be your $2,000 to $3,000 range vote? two to three thousand you know it's it's a tricky price point because i think a lot of those pins that were two to three thousand maybe a year ago like even like a fishtails i think it's pretty fun for the family yeah uh those are have now crept into the three to four thousand dollar range and at that point you know it's it opens up other avenues you know can you still get a road show for three thousand bucks yeah so maybe road show is fun it's a wide body it's a pat Lawler game. And that would be your $3,000 to $4,000 vote. $3,000 to $4,000 vote. I don't know. There's just so much pinball, man. And the prices are all over the place. So I'm still trying to make sense as to what's going on with the market. So we'd have an Earthshaker, a Roadshow, and then a Deadpool. Well, Fishtails. Did you just mention to me today, because Bram Stoker's Dracula were not family-friendly, so to speak. I always thought it was like a $3,000 to $3,500 game. Maybe a four depending on condition. If it knocked it out of the park, yeah. And I'm not talking about a high-end restoration because those pins command higher prices. Yeah, for the obvious reasons. But a nice Bram Stokers is between $3,000 and $4,000. Yeah, maybe $45,000. But it was funny because today on Pinside I saw one listed for $6,500 basically and I'm like, what is done to this game? I mean, it was a real clean game. Nice play field. A lot of mods to it. $6,500. Tastefully done. Okay. I mean, it had a, you know, a rap sheet of just, you know, all the stuff done to it.
    27:02
    Was it, like, heavily modded? Was it clear-coated? Not clear-coated, but, I mean, it was heavily modded. Cliffies, you know. Color TV? Color screen, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, okay. But it was an original Survivor. Clean cabinet, no fade.
    27:17
    So, and I always like to watch the. So, it's for sale at $6,500? It was for sale. Now it's sale pending in, like, three hours. No. Oh, yeah. What? I was blown away. I was like. Hold that. Do you have that ad on your phone? Yeah, I do. All right. I just, and I'm not trying to bust somebody's ad here, but if Bram Stoker's Dracula is going for $6,500 right now, I'm going to be completely in awe. And that's, I guess it's good and scary. Here, do you mind? Can I have your phone for a second? It was actually $6,425. Bram Stoker's. All right, let's do this. It says, gorgeous, rare, unfaded Bram Stoker's Dracula for sale, which I've partially restored and upgraded with led ocd which is a cool actually mod um and pin sound love pin sound i do love pin sound okay but you're talking five hundred dollars a month i was just gonna say about 500 bucks right been enjoying it all year but i regularly cycle my game so it's time to find this one it's next forever home most nice bsds get bolted to the ground in collections as keepers so keep that in mind gameplay is 100 with no errors not interested in trades at this and then the ad cuts out because this is a screenshot. It's not the actual ad. So was there anything else that was kind of crazy at the end of that? No, you pretty much read most of it. Okay, so just because it's sold or it's a pending sale doesn't necessarily mean it's sold for $6,500, right? No. No, but I mean here, even if it took, there's a little bit more. Oh, there's a lot bit more. So even if he took a 20% hit on Solonet, and we're just speculating. It's fair to go through this, though. It is fair. So here are the highlights. Alternate Translight. Blood red translucent flipper buttons blood red flippers chrome vinyl instruction cards imported from Spain chrome rails legs and lockdown bar with black leg protectors Chrome hinges with black powder coat Okay so chroming out a game is not inexpensive
    29:10
    I did not realize it's chromed out. Chrome is huge. No wrinkling around the cab protectors. New ramp flaps. Full moon rising effect on rebuilt pop bumpers, blue caps, comet rings, blue skirts. It's nuclear plastics, rebuilt flippers, remote battery holder, target decal set, outer ramp decal. We have an upgraded mist board that's installed, a full cliffy set that's installed. Looks like LED strips under each major, and then it's cut off again. What's up with your phone, man? That was basically the end of the list. Okay. So you just screenshotted it? Yeah. So let's just go conservative here. I'm thinking there's $2,000 in add-ons on that machine. Yeah. At least. Just from the Chrome package to Pinsound.
    29:55
    And let's say it was a clean game. Yeah. And those clean games going for what, $3,800? I was going to say, let's start the baseline of $4,000. Okay. So with the mods, you're probably around $6,000, just with the major mods. So you know what? Now, it's crazy, though, man, because there are two ways to look at it. A lot of people feel, including myself, if you're going to mod a game, you're not necessarily going to get that back with the exception of a few mods. That would be like a color DMD, which this machine had. Invisiglass Yeah I would say like HD Glass Or Invisiglass is another one I think Pin Stadium is probably another one That you'd probably get your money back For Pin Stadium And yeah Pinsound I mean Pinsound It's going to cost you $400 To put Pinsound in there So I don't know At first when you said it I was like get out of town But now when I really think about it With just those mods that hold their value You're close to that $6,000 range with the additional add-ons and whatnot. And in all fairness, I may be missing something on there that's ridiculous as far as price, and I just am not familiar with that mod for the pin.
    31:01
    But, man, think about that, a $6,500 Bram Stokers. Yeah, and we're not at the price, please. We're not saying that's outrageous or anything. Not at all. Just the chroming alone is $1,000. Well, I thought it was freaking outrageous when you said $6,500. I'm like, what's this guy smoking, right? Well, it's still a $6,500 Brams. And it's not that it's out of question what he's asking for. I don't think that's it at all. After you start realizing what's included in the price, it's a lot easier to digest. Yeah. Because what happens most of the time? You see somebody that comes, they go on eBay, and they see what pins are going for, and they think that that's the Kelly Blue Book value of a pinball machine. And then they want $5,500 for their Alive Home Edition. And it's a fine line. You don't want to insult the seller, but you want to educate them and make a fair offer based on market value without getting them pissed off. And it's a real fine line for most people. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, I kind of want to finish that off a little bit and then kind of jump into our next topic. But congrats to the seller. Congrats to the buyer. Beautiful game. Well, it's still pending. It's still pending, but hope that goes well. But, yeah, I love looking at all those high-priced games, seeing what's done to them and seeing how quick they sell. Because you're already thinking, I'm going to build a Bram Stoker's cabinet, and I'm going to get a Bram Stoker's play field, right? I already got one at the house. That's right, you do. You can piece one together. We installed alternate decals on that, Bram Stokers. All we need to do is throw the alternate trans light in there, and you've got one of the coolest. We'll have to post pictures of the VSD that I did. That's right. I forgot we worked on that. Well, you did most of the work. I just came over on decal day. Well, that was the important part. But, yeah. Hey, $72.50. All day long. Right. Clean game with a playfield protector. And already LED'd. Oh, did you order the playfield protector for it? How many freaking games are you working on, Bill? That's not mine. That's a friend's. That's right. That's Joe Fricasso's. Joe Fricasso? Yeah. Or he likes to be called Francisco.
    32:58
    Yeah. But I remember when we were working on that for him. Yeah, and he's got so much going on that he hasn't really done a whole lot with it. That's a buddy of ours in the St. Charles Pinball Group. And this guy has a warehouse of stuff in scattered places throughout the area. Yeah. Lots of stuff. Time for him to downsize.
    33:17
    Yeah. We're getting a bigger warehouse. I've got a Star Trek The Next Generation in my basement. Yes. Which is kind of cool because I like to foster pinball machines knowing that I don't have any equity in them. Yeah. But I'll tell you what. Just like watering the plants, I have no problem waxing and wiping down a play field. No, no. No, no, no. I think it looks good, dude. It does look good, man. I like it. Thanks, Joe. But going into this, so on the topic of selling and buying, we had a listener email the question. Yeah, so Lucas Pepke, he asked, well, actually he mentioned that he loves stories of great or unique finds while on the hunt. Do you have any experiences, anything crazy that's happened to you while looking for a pinball machine or searching for a game or something that you snagged at a great price or just something you found in a machine? I think the three funniest. Not the story with the dead body, though. No, no, no, no, no. That's still under. Yeah, while it's still under investigation, we don't talk about those types of things. But that would be a great story. um no but uh i think you know the three craziest was uh my t2 i you know found it on craigslist basically told the wife well kind of begged but i'm like hey listen i want to go buy this game fourteen hundred dollars for a t2 like three years ago or four years ago now which you know obviously what games did you already have prior uh just enough 14 yeah and oh your favorite oh yeah great game um it's not a bad game it's just you know it wasn't my favorite i got you um good starter pin you know so literally the game was beat up whatever drove down there during the middle of the work day and my work truck i'm like hey dude you know i'm gonna come and get get this thing but you gotta you know be ready to go and of course we're trying to carry it through snow with legs on and yeah you know just a crazy snow changes everything that sucks yeah out of a walkout basement yeah um up a hill right thought we're gonna drop this thing and i just wasted $1,500. Yep. Next craziest one, I think, was the one that we all did. You know, you, Joe Fricasso, our buddy Jeff, you and myself. Oh, when we did the mega trade. The mega trade. That was crazy. That was a weird, weird situation. So that was a situation where I had, what the heck? Attack from Mars, Ellie. I had attack from Mars, Ellie. And then we had somebody that was local that had a Simpsons pinball party. and they had a Metallica Pro with a color DMD. And it was a trade with cash involved. And anyways, long story short, we had gone out there with the attack from Mars LE. And it was just kind of interesting because you're thinking it's just kind of a sweep and clear, but it's really not. You have to figure out what makes the most sense to bring up, what brings down. And this guy's wondering if we take his pinball machines, are we coming back? So you kind of want to leave your machine there while you're moving the other machines, but it was in a basement and there wasn't a lot of room. No, it was an old house with a small basement, and the staircase was extremely narrow. We had to take the door off on that one, right? He was sick. He didn't bother to tell us that. That's right. He wasn't feeling well. I remember he was watching the Hawks game.
    36:17
    Our buddy Jeff's like, dude, this guy's going to give us the SARS. Oh, no. All this crazy stuff. It was just a... Dude, no. He wasn't going to give us the SARS. No. People get sick. They have colds. That's just what happens. Right now, I'm shaking one. And I think the only reason we're doing the podcast together is you're getting over one, too. We did not catch that from each other, by the way. No, no. There was nothing going on. But long and short, so he wasn't feeling well, so he didn't help. But you know what? Things happen. We don't fault him for that. Then we couldn't get the Metallica in the back of your truck. And I had brought my truck to transport the, what was the other one? Metallica. No, the Metallica didn't fit in your car, right? No, Metallica went in my car. You had a Simpsons pinball party. Because you were like. Right, but the Metallica, for whatever reason... It barely fit. Barely fit. Yeah. Equinox is not a great car for pinball transport. And then the story only gets a little more interesting, because as we're driving home... Yes, I remember this now. It starts raining, and this is like January 8th or 9th. Don't ask me why I remember that. Well, actually, it was a joke that Ken kept it past the first of the year, but not much after.
    37:21
    So we're starting driving, and it starts raining. and it's one of those decent rains, but the problem was that the temperature dropped below freezing. So by the time we got back in our area, the roads are like just a sheet of ice. Couldn't even get the car up the hill to get the game out. Where you're in the driveway and you put it in park and the car slides down the driveway. And that's a pretty disappointing situation because we had worked really all day to kind of get this trade completed. And thank you guys so much, Joe Fricasso, Jeff Prickelis, my co-host Bill Webb. To come back after all that and finally think to yourself, we're going to set these games up. We're going to have some beers, maybe some 50-50 drinks, and we're just going to play some pinball tonight. We get home, and we can't even get the car in the driveway. So it's not like you're going to be – it was a sheet of ice. It was an ice storm. Yeah. And those pins sat in the cars for a couple days, I think, before we were able to get them inside. So that was a crazy story. Yeah, because then I brought the car home, and I'm like, babe, we've got to leave this Metallica pinball machine in your car. She's like, how are we going to move my daughter? I'm like, yeah, that's a problem. you're like yeah i got the car that's your problem you asked for this kid dude i've got the car in reverse i'm just like burning out up the driveway you know i barely get the car you know halfway into the garage and i'm like okay let's get this thing out pinball adventures wow yeah that was a good night well what was it what was the last one you said you had three right baywatch we bought baywatch that was an interesting situation well that was all right too because we went into the city to grab baywatch and uh jeff again came on the road trip with us and and uh you know jeff's always taking everything in he's able to kind of size up situations and personalities and people and and i had no problem going out there and picking up that baywatch that was fun i mean but jeff who's like he he's just he's got like a spidey sense yeah dude he's very quiet okay that's the thing about him he's very quiet new situations and analyzing people yeah and assessing the situation what's going on around him and his job like lends itself to evaluation and really looking at everything and yeah so okay and then as soon as you get in the car you know he just comes out with these one-liners and you just die laughing yeah jeff would be good to have on the show one day as a just a little guest of the show yeah absolutely um i remember for me personally the first pinball machines i had ever picked up was an earth shaker duh right yeah and uh so i drove out gave cash it was in a basement and uh and i didn't really know how to move them and this I didn't know how to move them either. So it was myself, this older guy. He had to be in his 50s. And then his son that was like maybe 14 or 15 years old. We dragged the machine to the bottom of the stairs. And I went where the coin door was and picked the machine up with the legs on. And him and his son were down by the head and picked it up. And we brought that up a straight flight of stairs with the legs on. Dude, it was the weirdest.
    40:09
    You don't have any way to get leverage. How did you not hit the head? it did not hit and we went all the way upstairs like that okay but then how did you get in your car so when we got it in the car it then dawned on me that this can't be transported like this so then we're like you know what we could take these bolts off probably get that front thing in and slide it in and then at that point i realized the head went down but it wasn't until after the fact that uh after you made it hard on yourself yeah yeah and it was weird too because when I brought Earthshaker here, I set it up in the living room. My wife loved that. And then at one point, I kind of got the go in my ass where, hey, I want to put pinball machines in the basement. And I want to put my, like I had a PGA Tour golf pedestal at the time, like the poor man's golden tee. And I was like, I want to build a game room in the basement. And I had nobody around that I felt comfortable asking moving pinball machines. So I remember literally just folding down the head, strapping it up, and sliding Earthshaker down my stairwell that has two landings all by myself. I just let gravity do the work. When I got downstairs, man, I felt like there was nothing that I couldn't do. And then I thought, well, I can just go grab pins and slide them down the stairs all the time. As I'm older now, it's not... I feel comfortable with two people. Was Chariots of Fire playing when you got to the bottom of the stairs? No, it was like Britney Spears oops i did it again okay playing nice uh but it came down unscathed you know going down is easier than uh than coming up um i found a steak knife in a pinball machine once i'm trying to think if i found anything crazy like in the arcade side of things like you'd always find strange things sometimes i mean unfortunately sometimes like dead mice and stuff like that i hate that yeah if i'm gonna go out and buy something and there's a dead animal in it i don't almost care how cheap it is, I will just pass. That appalls me. It's so disgusting. You're pretty particular that way. I don't like that. I don't like knowing that rodents lived in a machine that I'm putting in my house. Yeah. That makes sense. Oh, no, it completely makes sense. So, I mean, that's like a red flag for me. So a listener of the show, Mark Silk, he had reached out to us. Mark's a cool guy. So I'm starting to learn a little bit more about Mark. Mark is, for those of you that don't know, marksilk.com M-A-R-C-S-I-L-K.com Mark's like a voiceover guy pretty famous, pretty popular and I didn't realize it when we'd exchanged messages before in the past I started looking a little bit more into what he does because he had offered at some point to help us with some voiceover work and if you get a chance, check him out so Mark wrote to the show, he's like Hey, good evening from the UK. I'd love to know your favorite pinball machines for their sound design. Thanks for a great show, Mark. So, Mark, thanks for contributing. What do you look for in sound, Bill? Is it score, like music? Is it the call-outs? Is it the whole entire package? Let's just take a couple minutes. When you think of cool sounds, cool audio and pinball, what immediately comes to mind? You know, honestly, I'm thinking Medieval Madness just because, you know, catapult. Pull! Call-outs are awesome in Medieval Madness. Yeah. I mean, by far, that game is pretty awesome that way.
    43:26
    And honestly every other way too But you know T2 it not a great themed you know music pin because there not a whole lot of music to it But I really like, you know, the opening of it, how it starts, you know, Judgment Day, and you got the clicking for the gun.
    43:45
    If you ask my wife, Baywatch is, you know. Baywatch grows on you audio-wise, that's for sure. Yeah, you know, the whole, I'll be there. Yeah. You know, she loves that pin just because of that. Okay, okay. So you're thinking more like nostalgic kind of... And Ghostbusters as well. I like Ghostbusters. Oh, killer sound package. Yeah. I didn't mean to cut you off. I'm a huge fan of the sound package on Ghostbusters. Yeah. That game's awesome. And that's Jerry Thompson. Yeah. Shout out to Jerry there. Yeah, and I'm loving the crap out of Deadpool and the sound package on Deadpool. So I think we mentioned Jerry an episode or two ago, but I'm glad you said Ghostbusters because he's very quickly becoming one of my favorite sound guys.
    44:28
    So Deadpool for me. David Thiel, unbelievable guy in sound. And Lord of the Rings, or not Lord of the Rings, I'm sorry, Hobbit. Boom. Oh my gosh. The audio on Hobbit is crazy style. That's one of the things I'd love to have for a text alert is multi-ball. Yeah, the callouts, but just like the musical score, the whole package on Hobbit is just really, it's an experience when you play the game. Now, you may or may not fall in love with the actual play of the machine after a while, to each his own, but as far as, you know, cinematically with animations, and then, you know, where Mark was asking with, like, audio, Hobbit kills it. I love it. And here's the best, you know, listening to that game when it's going off, it kind of sounds like, you know, you're sitting in a Dolby THX theater, especially at the end when you lose your last ball and it starts running through the theme music. Yeah, it's great, man. Overwhelmingly awesome. With the newer pins now, with what they're able to kind of accomplish audio-wise,
    45:31
    and again, Dave Thiel and Jerry Thompson, and there are others. I mean, that's just what's fresh in my head because that's what I've gravitated towards recently. It'd be cool to just sit down with both those guys and be like, here's one machine, give us your best audio package, right? and see what they can do. Oh, yeah. I don't know if they're colleagues or not. I imagine at some point they've met or they are. I don't know, but I love it. Give them both a T2 and a pin sound and saying, make it rain now. Give me a T2 and a pin sound. Yeah. Because one of my other favorite audio packages was one that I did myself, and that was on my Twilight Zone with a pin sound. I made a Pink Floyd mix for pin sound. Yeah, you crushed it with Twilight Zone. Oh, my gosh. Which, you know, and I'm not a sound guy per se, but I put a lot of time into that. And that transformed that machine, which is already a great machine. And there were people that didn't like Twilight Zone, which will remain nameless for argument's sake. But they loved your game because of that pin sound. Because of the pin sound? Yeah. They said that made that whole game. And that's a great thing with something like a pin sound. Or I think on the newer Stern machines you can download pin browser. if you have a machine that you really love and it's just getting a little bit stale, I encourage you, think about changing some of the audio. Customize it. Personalize it to your liking.
    46:52
    That's why when games like Guardians of the Galaxy come out and there's not that full audio package with the actors and actresses and the call-outs and the music, take a little extra time and do it for yourself. Yeah. Personalize it. That's fun. Personalize it. You know, Guardians is cool, too, because I like the Jackson 5. Yeah. I love the audio on Stock Twilight Zone. I know that Granter had the other sound package that didn't come out because of the limitations of the sound and the audio at the time, but that's iconic for me. I like the call-outs. I like the music.
    47:27
    For me, I think visually is where I'm attracted to pinball most of the time, and it's like the light shows and the artwork and the play field, but every so often something special happens with the sound that puts the game over the top. and for me right now um it is deadpool um it's i'm surprised how much i'm liking deadpool i'll be honest with you i i i'm not one to go all in on a game and stuff like that and uh there are things that i i'm gonna stop talking about deadpool i feel like i'm shilling it no no no it's all right but it's just fun man it's fun it's a fun fun fun game so you know what are two call outs that i still love from you know older games what's sorry and i'm kind of like older game guy in this but that's fine so in the adams family pinball machine if you get the ball around the vault and the vault is still locked raul julia goes you know dirty pool old man you know i've only heard it like twice in the game because it's only ever happened twice where i got the ball around the vault isn't dirty pool also will call out an attack from mars when you sneak a ball in when you take down the ship and i and the uh targets are going back up the drop targets I think if you sneak one in there at the last minute, it also says Dirty Pool. It could. I'm not. I haven't done that. But like Indiana Jones, it has the, you cheat, Dr. Jones. Yeah. If you still have the three-bank target up and you sneak the ball around into the lock. Yeah, right. Cool call-outs. Yeah, that's cool call-outs. The Gandalf multiple. I love that on Hobbit, too. I don't know. That's fun. I think that's where we're at on the pinball soundtrack, in all honesty. Well, let's do this. we want to keep this episode under an hour because it's kind of an off-the-cuff episode for us. We're not really getting into the news because there really isn't a ton of news, but we kind of wanted to just kind of share conversations that we have with you guys, and hopefully we haven't alienated most of you. But I did want to talk about the show, especially with the Pinball Podcast moving forward. So we've got a lot of cool stuff happening here in the next couple weeks. We've got the Todd Tuckey interview that we will be recording on the 20th. And interestingly enough, I mean, everybody for the most part knows who Todd Tucky is. There's been a little bit of controversy with a book deal that he had that he now is not part of.
    49:42
    We're kind of talking to Todd on that to see where he wants to go with that in particular. And, you know, the interview is not going to be focused on a book deal. We're going to be focusing on this, the career of Todd Tucky. Yeah. Life and times. You know, and with that being the most recent turn of events for him, you know, in personal business affair, absolutely we're going to bring that up. But we're not going to pressure him to divulge anything he doesn't want to. But I've been talking to him on the side, and I think he's just waiting for clearance from the tower, so to speak, to see just how far he can get into that. So that's going to be exciting. We also have coming up in the first week of December what I think is a really cool interview with somebody that hasn't really been in the pinball limelight a lot recently, but he will be soon. And it's not because of our interview. It's because of current employment.
    50:34
    And I guarantee that this will be something that everybody will look forward to hearing. And, you know, if you're a casual pinball fan or if you're a fanatic, this is going to be a fun interview. I'm absolutely looking forward to it. Extremely excited for this one. Yes, yes. And we were very fortunate to be given the opportunity to do this. So thank you. We won't divulge who that is yet. Not yet. You know what? Let's get through another awesome interview. I've been looking forward to doing Todd Tuckey's interview for a while.
    51:05
    I'm surprised that we're doing this too because it just happened to work out. Thank you, Todd. Let's go full force on Todd Tuckey. Let's get the second interview in the pipeline and then close out the year. We kind of teased this last episode.
    51:21
    We've been working hard undercover, so to speak, with some of the pinball manufacturers, some staff, some colleagues to kind of do something that's a little bit different. And this is going to be kind of our holiday gift to the listeners with what we're doing audio-wise. And it's going to be a show that, like none other that I've ever heard on a podcast or recorded as far as pinball goes.
    51:49
    And it's going to feature 30 or 40 guests on that show. Which is surprising because when you started naming the guests off of who we were going to try and get, and Ken set this all up, so honestly my hat goes off to Ken. Oh, thanks, man. Without Ken doing this, this wouldn't be an episode. Without us having a collaborative effort and I think gaining some trust and a little bit of respect from people in the community, none of this would have been possible. Absolutely. Where I appreciate you giving props, I'm going to throw them right back at you, buddy. But, you know, honestly, with the 30 to 40 guests, by far overwhelmed at how many people are on board with this idea and have taken the time to be a part of this. So, you know, to everybody that's taken their time and responded and are open to doing this, I'd like to say thank you for that. And, I mean, this will be a very, very special episode. We'll have our good friend Dwight Sullivan in. I'm looking forward to that. So Dwight coming in and guest hosting with us. And I'll say this. I made a list of 50 people that I thought would nail the show down. And right now I've had 32 replies, I believe, 32, 33, and not one person that didn't offer to take part in this. So that was very humbling for me. And we can't wait to share this with you. I'll also say this. We had mentioned Mark Silk earlier in the podcast or, you know, on the last half here. Um, Mark's very, uh, generously agreed to, to really help the show out with making it as professional sounding and awesome and awesome as possible with, uh, some, some great intro and some sound files and stuff. So I'm looking forward to working with Mark for the first time. Um, we've worked with Jerry Thompson in the past who's, who's done some voiceover work for us and it's been fun and he's a great guy. Uh, Rachel West who does our, um, our openings. Yep. Uh, she's really fun to work with. We appreciate that. So it's, it's really cool to be able to work with people from the audio end, because if you think about it, man, like we're kind of self-taught and it probably shows a lot, um, when it comes to audio recording and in mixing things up, we do the best that we can. And I think it's sufficient to where we're at right now, but we're always looking to raise the bar. And, uh, for something like this, which we're looking to deliver to you guys, um, as like a Christmas holiday gift as like a thank you for listening to the show.
    54:16
    We really want it to be top notch. So I'm excited. You're excited. And the people that are on board, thank you. But we'll be announcing that probably beginning of December, what we're doing with that. Yeah. So that'll be fun. Good times. Yeah. So we're really looking forward to that. We're already working on that show, man. Yeah. And it's going to be hours and hours and hours and hours and hours to kind of compile everything. but it's going to be, I think when it's all said and done,
    54:44
    it'll be one of those shows where people can really, without ever having to have listened to us, would be able to kind of download it or stream it and have a fun time. Yeah. And get a lot of information and that sort of thing. And it's not going to be a pinball news show. No. It's not going to be a speculation of, you know, what's Jersey Jack's next game.
    55:04
    It's going to be cool. A humbling. Not that that's not cool. Personality show. Yeah, for sure. and laid back very much and that said it will be a longer episode than you guys are accustomed to oh yeah we're gonna have to try to keep that under the uh two hour mark yeah but uh you know what maybe we'll figure it out yeah we'll figure it out the thing with that is it has to be fast moving and it has to be interesting it can't be boring um i think everybody falls victim to getting into listening to a show or maybe a podcast or your favorite TV show and where you find yourself looking forward to that next episode, there's always a letdown at some point where it's like, well, that one kind of sucked. I couldn't have, you know, I probably could have figured out better things to do. But it's the commitment to those people and to that show in general that kind of keeps you coming back. And at some point, there's a payoff and there's a reward. So for 2018, this is kind of our payoff or reward for you guys. Yeah. So hopefully it doesn't just completely suck. Because that would be a waste of effort. Just a bit outside. We're going to try. That's what we do. We try. So I think as far as episode 22 goes, bad boy Bill, we can probably kind of put the finishing wraps on that unless you have anything else to add. No, I think we're about good. I think we covered everything we wanted to. I'll tell you this. Every single night that we get ready to do this, I'm so motivated all day long. and to come downstairs and to knock these podcasts out with you in the Pinball Palo studio, sponsored by Two Brothers Artists and Brewing. It's a pleasure, man, and it was a pleasure tonight. And going into the holidays, things I'm grateful for is my podcast partner, Bill Webb. And Thanksgiving's coming up. Let's all get ready to have some fun, man. It's going to be slow news-wise, but I'll tell you what. We're going to bring you the interviews, and we're going to bring you the content. and worst case scenario, we'll just kind of shoot the stuff here. And thanks once again to all the listeners. We do appreciate all the feedback that you guys have been sending in, so feel free to keep writing. Other than that, I think that's about episode 22. Sorry for my congested, nasally voice today, guys. My bad. All right. So wherever you're at, this is Ken Cromwell, and I'm Bill Webb. And wherever you're at, you guys have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day to play some pinball. So long, everybody. The special when lit pinball podcast is sponsored by Two Brothers Artisan Brewing, makers of pinball pale ale. You're passionate about all things pinball and great tasting craft beer. Two Brothers Artisan Brewing is a firm believer in pursuing your passions. For over 20 years, Two Brothers has had an unparalleled passion for their craft, their customers and their community. Two Brothers Ars and Brewing wants you to follow your passion and drink theirs oh yeah that's the tribute to Brian C