All right, welcome back, guys, to another episode of A Pinball Podcast. It is episode 29, I believe. I did have another one taped and ready to go, and then I discovered the audio was completely down, which is why we have not had one in quite some time. But we're doing one right now, so we're making up for it, and we're going to cover a lot of ground today. Now, just this past weekend, my wife and I, we took a little trip across the country just to see different places, see old friends, and it was a lot of fun. We got to stop at Kansas City up at Solid State Pinball Supply with Nick and Kerry Wing, Nick Greenup and Kerry Wing, and they were fantastic up there, and it's really awesome. The place that they have up there, it's really cool. I can't really do it justice in properly describing it, but let's just say that they have plenty of pinball up there to play, and it was a lot of fun. They had an area that was up top that was actually between a pizzeria and a coffee shop. And my wife and I, we got to play. Basically, all the newest Sterns were pretty much up in that area. Mousing Around was up in that area. I know they had a Ninja Turtles, a Jurassic Park, a Black Knight. So it was a whole lot of fun getting to play in that environment. And then downstairs in the basement area, they had all kinds of other games, a lot of old school games, which was a lot of fun to play. I got a chance to play Fire, played Boomerang, played Radical, played Flash Gordon. So a lot of the older school games was in the area, and it was a whole lot of fun. I definitely recommend going there. Can't recommend it enough. Kansas City has something pretty awesome there. And if you haven't checked it out yet, be sure and just look it up, Solid State Pinball Supply. I'll leave a link down below in the show notes so that way you guys can check it out. But it was really cool. It was great getting to catch up with friends also. always enjoy talking pinball with Carrie. She is a wealth of knowledge. For those that don't know who she is, that's the former women's world champion and a state champion of Kansas as well, but a hell of a pinball player. All right. And then after that, we just kept going north. We kept going north and we ended up in this state called Wisconsin. I don't know if you guys have heard of it or not, but it does exist. It is up there. And I was visiting my buddy Tom Graff up there in the Appleton Green Bay area, which is two different places, but they're kind of kind of in the same area. I'm sure Wisconsin people are screaming at me right now, but that's my Oklahoma talk coming out. Anyhow, we ended up visiting a place called District 82, and we tried to go to a couple other places like a Titletown Brewery, but they had a wedding going on. So I did attempt to play Guns and Roses again just to give it one more chance, and the pinball gods were not going to allow it. So I didn't get a chance to play it again, but I did get a chance to go to district 82 a couple of times, which is ran by Eric Thorne, who is a great guy. I had the pleasure of meeting him. And I have to say that place is, is spectacular. If you haven't got a chance to see it yet and you're around that area, I highly recommend you go check it out. Although I, the odds of you not knowing about it or haven't been there before. And you're around that area are probably slim to none because they had a fantastic community there. We were able to play a two-strike event on Friday night, and then that was followed up by another event on Saturday that was a heads-up, 14 rounds, I believe, and a side tournament as well. So a couple of things I really enjoyed about it, though, is that they had such a massive selection of games. There was legitimately, I think, 98 to 99, maybe even 100 games out on the floor at that point. I lost track. There were so many games. And what I really loved about it, not only the atmosphere, but the people up there were great. I can't say enough about the community up there. Everybody was super nice to myself, to my wife. It was really enjoyable meeting people. It was really enjoyable getting to talk pinball with people. It was enjoyable just to get to some form of normalcy. in seeing what pinball can be. Now, granted, we were doing the mask. We were doing as much social distancing as possible, which is very easy in that place because that place is huge. And so I got to say, if you want to play pinball and you're worried about COVID a little bit, if you're kind of antsy but you're up in the area, they take care of you. Temperature checks, the whole nine yards. So I felt completely safe. Monica felt completely safe. the only thing that wasn't safe was the thrashing I gave her on Paragon. Correct, Monica? I just get a dirty look. Anyhow, but I really enjoyed my time. I played the two-strike event Friday night, and that was really enjoyable. And we did all right, as you can tell. Got lucky there, but we did all right. And then during the heads-up event, I actually decided, I told my wife early on, I was like, I'm going to enjoy myself. I'm going to have a few of the Wisconsin adult beverages. And I ended up doing just that. And I had a lot of fun. Now, granted, I played every single round as if I was actually on Guns N' Roses and I couldn't trap up and I'm just flipping away. But, you know, I still had a great time. I really did. And I don't have to necessarily play in tournaments and have my competitive face on and just be going pedal to the metal the whole entire time to have fun. I don't have to do that. Now, that being said, the side tournament I did because I was playing some hefty competition with, I believe, it was Ryan Spindler was there. I don't think I played Tom Graff. He was in the other side of the bracket. And Luke Nahorniak was there. Ended up having to play him as well in the finals. And then there was another player there that's an up-and-coming player. She a 13 girl named Cassidy And you guys have to look out for her This girl has legit skills I telling you she has legitimate skills I very advanced for her age very knowledgeable about the games You can tell she's thinking about what she's doing. She's picking out her shots and it shows that'll be somebody to look forward to, you know, out. Hang on for a sec. One for what does one for me? Is she 14 now? Oh, that's what you heard. Okay. Sorry. My wife is correcting me. fact checking live 14 Cassidy if you're listening to this I'm so sorry I recognize you are 14 years old not 13 hopefully either way she's young she's young and she kicks a lot of butt let's just put it that way she's putting up some crazy scores up there and that's somebody to uh to be on the lookout for in the future no doubt about it but yeah the game selection there is great I got to play Robo War, Fishtails, Hot Doggin, Globetrotters, Police Force, Alien Poker, X's and O's, Black Rose. What else was there? Mousin Round, Stars, Strikes and Spares. And of course, they had some of the Sterns there as well, but they had a great selection of older games. And that's, for me, I love that. I love the classics. I love the EMs, the older solid states. And I got my fill there. It was really great. It was really fantastic. And Eric and company up there, you guys have a fantastic community. I can't say enough good words about it. And I can't wait to visit there again. All right, so moving forward, it's time to once again discuss the Guns N' Roses situation that's occurring with the playfields. Now, I thought about this long and hard because I had about 28 hours on the road because we did drive this whole time. I had a lot of time to think about it. And this situation, it's really unique, and it's unique in this way. And the fact that there are people that are legitimately in for a collector's edition, Guns N' Roses from Jersey Jack Pinball. They're in for, the MSRP was $12,500. Now, obviously, with tax and shipping, that's going to go a little bit higher, and I have to assume that exceeds $13,000. That's just my assumption. So we'll just call it even $13,000. And if I was one of those buyers, I'm not lying right now, I would be sweating. I would be very much sweating my purchase because if you're on the hook for $13,000 and you don't know 100% that you're going to get a product in which the play field is 100% perfect, 100% perfect, that is a bad place to be in. And not only that, think about how crazy this is, guys. These pens could be sold on the third-party market for anywhere between $18,000 to $20,000 as of today. But as soon as a CE rolls off the line, and as soon as somebody opens it, and as soon as that collector's edition has the same exact issues that some of the LEs are showing, such as pooling, such as chipping, such as the rubber's fraying, such as the disc just basically falling apart, imagine the first time a ce does that that new in box thing about reselling or the value of it especially for collectors that's going to go away really fast i feel like this is a massive bubble that is about to pop over this thing it that's the way i legitimately feel and i don't know how to describe it but i would be sweating it if and i have to assume the majority of people that bought into the CE are collectors. I have to assume that they want their games to be pristine. I have to assume that they do place a monetary value on it, and they want to see it remain steady or even go up. The problem is the moment all these issues start coming, and there's 500 of them in the world, I don't think we're going to see prices go up. It would not shock me one bit within a year if a CE from Guns N' Roses is exactly the same price or even a thousand dollars less, depending on what's going on with the play field. You can't tell me, you can't tell me that that's not possible because that is entirely possible when you have so many things happening with this game right now. And it's a shame, but that's the situation we're in. Imagine if you are somebody that really wants a CE and you spend 18 to $20,000 getting your CE from somebody else, and then those issues happen, then what? You just spent $18,000 to $20,000 for something that's going to fray on the rubbers, for something that's going to pull, for something that's going to chip, for something to where the disc is going to fall apart. Now, I do know that Jersey Jack is trying to fix the disc issues. I believe that they issued, I don't even know what you call it, they issued some type of notice that this is what you need to do to fix it, or maybe they are fixing it at the factory right now. I'd have to assume that they're taking those steps. If anybody knows about that, please let me know in the comments down below, because I'm not sure about that. I haven't listened to a lot of these podcasts recently, and I have not caught up on the news too much. I've just seen glimpses of it and have heard from people that are texting me this stuff and giving me this information. So anyhow, I would be super worried if I was in on the CE. I would be worried if I was in on an LE. I would. I would be sweating so many bullets right now. And that's not where a buyer should be. And it's a shame that we're at that point. But I think we're officially at that point. We are at that point. And hopefully it doesn't ruin a lot of goodwill. I know a lot of people that did own a Wizard of Oz, that did own a Pirates that did own a Dialed In that did own a Hobbit that did own a Willy Wonka And they didn buy a Guns N Roses because of the issues before Now that being said obviously Guns N Roses sold like hotcakes probably still continues to sell like hotcakes. That's obvious. But that also means there's a lot of first-time Jersey Jack buyers. There's a lot of them out there. And the experience that some of them are going to get is not going to be good. And that's a shame. It should not be like that. And I hope for Jersey Jack's sake, and I hope for the buyer slash consumer's sake, I hope that these issues get alleviated. I hope they get addressed properly. I hope that there's communication going on with the collector's edition buyers. I have to assume that there's communication going on. I have to assume that. If there's no communication with them on these issues, if there hasn't been already, the red flag. it's a red flag and I'm really worried about that but anyhow I've said this before Avengers review is coming out pretty soon I probably am going to do that my next podcast I want to save that for its own podcast because there's a lot to go over I planned on making a video of that unfortunately one of my wire forms as I've said it before just snapped off the base and I've been waiting, I believe it's been three plus weeks now waiting on a new part. I have no idea when that new part is going to come in. I have no idea. I know Zach got right on it immediately, but other than that, it's right now, it's just the waiting game. So I planned on doing a bunch of B roll for that rolling out a video of having, you know, a review of it every a hundred plays, like a full review, obviously the full game, but then an update of what the play field looks like every hundred games or so. And I've been stuck at game one Oh two for about three weeks now. So that's a little bit disappointing, but I will go ahead and come out with my overall review very soon. And, you know, it just, I'm reminded by this trip. It was kind of a reset for me. I'm reminded of how fun pinball can actually be and what I do like about pinball and what I don't like about pinball. And one of the things that really touched close to where my mindset was with pinball or is with pinball is that I realized by playing all these games and kind of how I feel about Guns N' Roses, because I've stated before, the light show is awesome. The sounds are awesome. The overall package really draws you in. It's when I start playing the game that I start to feel that something's off. And I've been trying to figure that out as much as possible. And I've been worried, you know, coming out with podcasts, coming out with reviews, talking about it. And I've gotten plenty of messages of people that disagree with my assessment. And that's perfectly fine. Doesn't mean I'm right. Doesn't mean you're wrong. Doesn't mean you're right. Doesn't mean I'm wrong. It just simply means we are both having the same experience or we're both doing the same thing but having a different experience with the same thing, if that makes sense. but what I figured out that I finally really put my finger on it of why the multi balls are driving me so crazy in that game. And I was reminded of it when I got plenty of time on solid state games. I was really reminded of this. And it's the fact that I don't, I can't find an area on guns and roses in which single ball play is rewarding. I can't find it. Now, I'm not saying it's not there. I'm just saying I can't find it. If it's there, please, somebody tell me where it's at. Because then I will look for it the next chance I get to flip it. But it felt like so much with that game that I was chasing a multiball. And in order to chase the multiball, that was the only way to get scoring on that. That's where all the points were. And for me, that doesn't create a very fun, balanced situation. A very fun gameplay because when the scoring gets that unbalanced and gets towards multiball, so multiball centric, I feel like it takes away from the heart and soul of a pinball game. And the heart and soul of a pinball game, for me, is always going to be single ball play. I want to be able to take on a mode. I want to be able to accomplish something in single ball play. And I don't want to have to spend my entire ball setting something up for a multiball. Does that make sense? I always feel like when it comes to pinball and it comes to scoring, you need to be able to score a higher amount in single ball on the mode than what your multiball jackpots are. That's the way I feel. I feel like that that's excellent scoring. Otherwise, everything becomes very linear in which we're just going for a certain multiball the entire time. And that's it. And that's the whole entire game. And that's actually what Ninja Turtles right now suffers from a lot, simply from just trying to get into multiball with an octopus topping, which is your frenzy mode, which means any switch gives you points, and then you just hit your 2x multiplier. And then from there, that's a 2x play-filled multiplier, and then you're just ripping spinner the whole time. You ignore all the jackpots, because that's where all the scoring's at. And I'm just reminded, when I got to play all those solid states, of how much fun a game can be when it puts an emphasis on single-ball play. And that's what Avengers is for me. Yes, there's a Thor multiball. Yes, there's an Iron Man multiple. Yes, there's portal multiballs. But guess what? Those are things that not only do you have to earn, they're not going to outpace the modes themselves. So it's very well done in that. And I don't think I almost feel like this because when I have this conversation with people, people kind of look at me like I'm talking a foreign language. I don know if you guys as the listeners out there have ever looked at pinball this way or have ever even paid attention that much to the way the scoring mechanics work And I understand that when it comes to pinball lights and sound play big parts in the experience I get that. It always does. And obviously, your modern games are going to do that so much better than your early 2000s games, so much better than your early 90s, 80s, your solid states, or your EMs. They always will, because that's just part of progress. But to me, the heart and soul isn't always going to be just because you hear kick-ass sounds. That is music sounds or call-outs. Yeah, it's part of the package, but that doesn't have to be the heart and soul. Just as much as I enjoy hearing that, I enjoy hearing the bells and chimes of an EM. Or maybe it's just chimes. Maybe I'm just saying bells and chimes because of the Women's League. But you guys understand what I'm saying. Anybody that's played an EM gets it. Everybody understands whenever you're playing taxi, right? And you hit one very particular shot and you guys all know what I'm talking about. If you play taxi and you hear that sucker just ring like that sound right there, it's not a traditional pinball sound nowadays, but that sound still means something. It still means something. And it's a way for you to work hard to, to work forward to. And I think that that's where, for me, when we talk about the magic in pinball, we talk about the world under glass. that's the way I look at it. For me, lights and sounds, art, that's only one part of the package. At the end of the day, it really becomes about the gameplay. For me, it becomes about the gameplay. What are the shot sequences I can hit? If this was a white wood, would this be fun to shoot? Does the geometry make sense? Does the rule set then make sense on top of that? Does it give me a path to score points? Does it make sense? Is it cohesive? Is the shot patterns cohesive within the mode itself? All those things really need to be fleshed out. And that's exactly why, guys, I'm telling you, that's exactly why Lyman Sheets games are so desired. Because he can flesh those things out. That's exactly why Keith Elwin games are so desired. Because he can flesh those things out. I guarantee you, if you actually stop and look at an Iron Maiden at a Jurassic Park, at an Avengers, I guarantee you, he puts incredible thought into the modes. He understands. You can tell the way that those two, Lyman Sheets, Keith Elwin, do their rule sets. You can tell they understand all the points cannot just be in multiball because they understand once you do that, the entire game becomes unraveled. It becomes unbalanced very quickly. It does. And those two understand that. That is exactly why. If you've ever tried to pinpoint why those two as coders and why those two as rule set designers, we'll just say that, those two as rule set designers, why they're so much better than everybody else, that is exactly why. That's exactly why. Because they do it that way, you can take multiple paths to get to the same destination. You don't have to play the game the exact same way. You can make adjustments in the middle of the game. You're not blocked out from anything. It is very rare you get blocked out from anything when you play those games, when you play any game that they've designed. And it's very rare that you can do something like a Thor multiball all day. I can't do a trooper multiball all day long. I mean, I'll get a little bit of points if I try to add on some type of multiplier, but I can't do like a well walker all day. I can't do those things. And that's what they're very good at. They're very good at making sure the risk reward in pinball is based entirely around your single ball play. And that's where the fun is. And if you start looking at pinball from that perspective and you open your eyes and you start seeing that, you are going to enjoy so many other games that you didn't even think were possible to enjoy because you'll start seeing these little nuances. You'll start seeing these little sequences. You'll start understanding how important it is to hit an orbit, get control, hit a backhand. You'll start understanding why you need to do that. And it starts making all this sense. Now, granted, there's probably a lot of people out there that are saying right now, well, I love multiball, so I want a pin in which I get a lot of multiball. That's great. That's perfectly fine. Have fun in pinball the way that you want to have fun. Like, definitely do that. the issue becomes though is that you lose to me in my opinion you lose the heart and soul of what pinball is and the heart and soul is definitely single ball play in my opinion multiball is great don't get me wrong obviously all the modern games have multiball you know but they should be there as a way to get things stacked up they should not be the primary driver of the entire game. That should be the additional add-on as you get things stacked up. Does that make sense everybody? So, that's all I have to say right now. That is pretty much to me what makes pinball fun. I'm sure you guys can hear my vacuum cleaner deciding to go off already at randomly at 10.16 in the morning, but that's okay. Either way though guys, I appreciate you guys being here. I'm going to get going. I'm going to try it is Tuesday morning right now. I'm going to try to do a live show tomorrow night. First time in about a month. We haven't done in a while. I'll be on at 9 p.m. U.S. Central Standard Time on Wednesday evening. That's November 11th. And we'll be live talking some pinball, answering questions, just kind of shooting the shit as we should. Either way, guys, you guys have a great day and I will talk to you guys later.