50:35good okay it was Tom what was your I feel so bad you know he feels bad you know he's he's probably it's Travis it was meant to be he needs to go to a Starbucks or something inter so what's funny is we joked around there was one week that we talked about recording because Travis was busy and I messaged Tom and I said Tom what if we get Keith this week because Travis is wed Keith like what if we get Keith is the sub for Travis and I was just like no he would his heart would be absolutely broken it would be broken if we if weat the one episode we get Keith on and now we're here and it's technical difficulties that's why I can't stop laughing I know I hope Monica's not there in the house cuz she's he's probably like Monica you fix all this okay Demo Man what else you got uh my last one was it's it's probably uh probably my second favorite early Solid State game and that's Paragon um yeah yeah I just it it's I I just like the it it can be kind of brutal um you got to go for those inline inline drops and you have to literally hit them all down and get in the saucer if you want the 5x so I I think it's that and that aspect of it it's a little tougher than harl yeah um but uh you know I I just and I like how it's a widebody which is you know not not the norm but they B did those extra wide bodies and I like that one the best out of all the ones they did so and you love the art no the Art's good yeah all the muscles all the muscles yeah and no neck yeah it's like looking in the mirror Tom right right exactly uh Travis just texted me he said his whole internet's messing up on his everything's falling apart reboot your router your what I just said restart the router let's see you should yeah I'm hitting it now he's saying y'all keep going we will or just just cell phone I have no idea what his cell phone service is um anyways okay so great list great list uh I only did three and um yes I actually radical was one of them that I was genuinely thinking about but it didn't make my list um I'm trying to remember what the what the other one was but my number three is um is oh uh skateball I was surprised Keith that skateball I know you love skateball but skate skateball wasn't on your list I love skateball for sentimental reasons yeah but um you know when I was a kid I would play the whole game oh this game's awesome this game's great but you know played in so many tournaments where you just shoot the right saucer over and over it's kind of soured on me over the years but I still think it's a great game if you play it uh the art works great uh my cooworker Greg Ferris must have been like 20 years old when he uh drew that so all right yeah but no yeah I I love skateball but uh in a tournament I don't love it got it okay um so one my if my fifth then this is a shout out to Chuck were would be big game and it's I've only played big game um twice but I've watched Chuck stream it and the passion that he has behind that game and really for what it is the complexity of it and the way that you can attack it um it's not you don't realize it just looking at it but there's actually some depth there and I'm assuming from a tournament standpoint you guys both enjoy that um I like ripping Spinners yeah I I own a big game it's my favorite classic Stern uh but in the tournament am I going to sit there and try to complete Bingo grids no I gonna just hope the Spinner's lit if it's not lit I'm shooting it over there anyway yeah um but yeah it's a great game and you're you're trying to fill out the Bingo cards and get your multiplier up and then the reserve bonus uh yeah I love that game yeah but uh tournament wise yeah I'm shooting that left spinner all day yeah okay that's fair um so that would those would have been my four and five so my number three my actual number three and I'm just I I was almost nervous like my view on these games cuz you're going to probably laugh at I my number three is F14 Tom Cat F14 Tomcat okay you guys are in because that was a game I actually traded this is back when I had a hobbit and I that was the only game I had and I wanted to I realized I needed more than one game I needed to grow The Collection so I actually traded this is when Hobbit was worth like 6500 maybe Seven Grand so I actually traded Hobbit for World Cup soccer um it was World Cup soccer pinbot and F14 Tomcat it was a three for one trade and the F14 te was like pristine condition um so it was a game I never wanted to have but it was like oh part of the trade what a blast that game fun game that game is it is high energy High adrenaline the just even just getting a multiball is such a battle you are that is a game where you really really feel like you're battling the freaking game and when you the beacons it's just I feel like everybody has to own a F14 at some point in time you kind of have to own one and um and I love watching it play in tournaments because it's that's a I don't know what they edit or change on that game to make it harder for tournament Players I think it's just already there it's it's ready straight out of the box you can drop that at a high level tournament so you know the one thing they do is uh get rid of spotting when you shoot the vck okay but um yeah that the second game I ever owned was an F14 and I I loved it and I still like playing it today it's just so weird and different and I remember talking to uh Steve Richie about it he was like ah I hate symmetrical games but this one just worked so um and it did yeah what a fun game though that was a game I ended up selling it um because yeah like but I do that's a game I genuinely like I miss I don't miss no offense I don't miss pinbot at all I just I never got into it but F14 was a game never wanted it got it blew me away and then now it's gone I actually miss it and so I will happily play it if I ever see it on location and so the thing you know people may not appreciate today but when that came out in 86 or whenever uh both the sound and the light shows were just leagues beyond anything else at the time mhm that game has like 30 flashers in it you know and the the sounds and the music everything was it was just topnotch yeah so when I had it is right after my daughter was born but she was big enough that I could put on a like a harness like a carrier and she would sit and watch me play you know like little babies looking at lights freaking love it uh my wife wouldn't let me do that with F14 she's like this game is too it's too bright the beacons like she's like you're going to overstimulate this child like don't like you can do it with the other but not 14 which I thought was hilarious that there was a stipulation on it that that is the best multiball ready um moment I think in pinball when you know you lock that third ball then the beacons come on and the music changes and it's intense music you it's going it's like yeah that that's crazy it's great it's awesome so F14 I definitely think because my view with this is like are you telling me there's a hundred better games than F14 like nah like I there's it's got to be even if it's 999 like it's I surprised me that it's 176 176 of4 so I I was surprised Keith you didn't pick Frontier because you always wear the frontier shirt I love Frontier that's the game that got me in the pinball um yeah I I don't know I honestly didn't see it rank that far down I mean I'm not going to pretend it's like some amazing rule set game it's just one of those here do this thing it's very hard to do and you know just keep doing it over and over and uh yeah no I love Frontier um but you know I'm at peace with it not being in the top 100 I'm at peace I'm at peace uh my number two game is NBA fast break and I don't know I don't think that's a tournament game I don't know if I've ever seen it in a tournament I don't know how you feel it fits in a tournament but it was uh it was an ifpa uh 17 and uh the European pinball Championship so I'd say it's a tournament game on it at the ifp so what is a what's a final score like what do you remember cuz it's it's F14 or sorry NBA fast break is actually scored in like basketball points so yeah a score is like a 100 do you remember what a compe high level competitive score is on F on NBA fast break I mean I played tournaments where Rings were worth points okay because you know your score your score is goes up two three whatever and you win a ring yeah um so the ring was kind of like a tiebreaker um but yeah I don't know I think we 200s 200s okay I would have to remember what I feel like I might have broken 200 one time but I had it in the house I got it because I was trying to convince my parents to get a pinball machine and my dad loves basketball loves basketball so I was like I'm gonna get this game he's gonna love it and then he's gonna buy it like that was my thought like that'll be what gets him into pinball um and he didn't enjoy it but my dad's cheap so that's it didn't happen but um streaming that game is a ton of fun and I there's something about task task based wizard modes that I love and the fact that to get to the the to the final the ring to compete for a ring you have to do very specific tasks and you have to do them and once you've completed that though then you can actually do the final I forget the world champion or whatever it is um the ring but I also love the combos the fact that one of the tasks is based on combos the combo shots the dunk the alleyoop the it's just very creative creative very creative fun layout uh friends and family loved it interesting mechs I can't imagine the number of coils that are in the back to pass the ball and shoot the ball like Gomez at the time like screw coil count we're putting them all in I mean it's it's it's a fun game I've yet to play one head-to-head and I know people say that's like a whole another oh yeah thing so very unique game it surprised me that it was not a top 100 game for sure yeah at the 82 arcade in La where we operated games we had a head-to-head pass break and it was it was a huge draw nice nice and that's the only head-to-head game so far like ever right that's happened yeah well I know separate machines yeah I think you could technically do two p3s like head dead you can do that two p3s head to head side by side but but without the basketball SC I think that's the Brilliance of it is the basketball scoring because you can just look over your your opponent oh they got 4 points or whatever you're not trying to read some billions number on the screen no it's super super simple super simple um it's just fun and the call outs and everything it's a great game it's a great game definitely should be a top 100 game I agree we have one on our Stern breakr actually so oh nice yeah yeah okay and then my last one is Johnny pneumonic so apparently I just like George Gomez but Johnny ponic I like the layout of Johnny NM monic um I like that spinner right up the middle um I find the glove very entertaining uh even though it is a Mech that apparently breaks all the time um I know the the final wizard mode I've never gotten to but I've seen and it's it like all the lights start to turn off it's like blackout or something whatever it's power down um it's that's just a fun game and I think that's one of those I think it's interesting these are the ones where people are like I want to get a DMD level game but I can't afford you know tales of the Arabian KN like what what like Johnny demonic falls into that category I think Lethal Weapon falls into that category of you know cheaper but yet this is a game I I have a lot of fun on I know a buddy of mine here locally has one um and I love playing it every time I go over there how does it work from a tournament s is that a is that okay no ter not at all you know you know what's mind-blowing is we have all these custom roms going around but no one's touched Johnny Nam monic with its obvious hey maybe this 10 million super spinner is a little too much yeah yeah that's all you do is you go for the spinner you carry that bonus over just keep doing it and you got 36 billion in no time yeah that's the Spinners right up the middle yeah and it spins it spins for days too yeah I remember Papa actually found some rusty old spinner from one of the damag games and stuck that in so you get like two or three spins and even then that's all you would do because it's still uh you know even 30 million a spin is you know worth more in the long run so there's ever a a tournament run to fix that I think it would be an amazing game yeah well now that we've talked about it not saying you've impacted my list but I think I'd I think I'd move Johnny monic down and move F14 and NBA fast break up that's where I'm at but but those are my three those are my main three um Travis I see a screen I just you know we could imitate him we just oh I do a harem GF try you know we can try play that can you hear us Travis I don't just oh boy I'm just just call you and put him on speaker phone just put he still like yeah apparently there's a uh uh I don't know there's a sandstorm or something over his house I don't oh that was Oklahoma oh he's here what what you are here he comes in right when we start kind of here he's kind of here I don't he's here and not tell him to text his list and we can laugh at it text your list okay okay yeah all right well we'll move on to the second half then um so the second half is games that are in the 200 to whatever the Maxes it was like 278 that we feel once again should go up should be higher they should be in the the top you know not say top 100 but maybe between 100 and 200 um so just say underrated games for where they're placed sure so I'm gonna start with this just because it's I'm just GNA throw a game out because it's it's criminal is WrestleMania no just kidding right now game number 205 on the top on pin sides list of top games is Venom Pro and you're telling me that there are 200 and four pinball machines that are better than Stern's latest game venom Pro I think not I think not so Venom Pro is absolutely on my list on that Venom Pro I get it the code is different it's Unique they've tried something new but the layout is it's a fan layout it's very accessible it's easy to shoot it's fun to shoot I think people can enjoy like I think for them to take a game where they want literally any level of any skill level to be able to achieve the final wizard mode it's a great layout for that um the animations are good the sounds are good the sound package there's four different freaking sound packages in this game like light show every like no this game should not be 205 should not be 205 so we talked about it a tiny bit but I'm not taking crazy pillers right um key thoughts on venom venom Pro oh I we talked about Venom earlier I like it yeah it it's so different um I actually I think I've only played the pro once and I was at the uh the pro circuit um so I don't have a ton of time on the pro but um I don't imagine it's too much different other than maybe the that's always a horseshoe shot but no I actually enjoy um progressing through that game and feeling I I'm a sucker for Bingo grids so maybe that's part of it ah it is there is definitely the risk reward there of before I get into this or before I go further do I want to change host fill out another Lane and boom you got rewards that'll carry through until you fail a battle which I mean you're not gonna fail battle you're Keith illen so um yeah no I get it but Tom you've you've been you've played a lot more Venom than that um yeah 205 why why in the world is it 205 uh I don't know maybe just Simplicity a layout I mean that's that's the only thing I can think of um just because it's a like a fan layout like I said the I've said on other podcasts like the the code is what makes that game um and Dwight's done a fantastic job with it but yeah I I I I think it's one of those games that you know people may not appreciate it now but they'll appreciate it more in the future I agree I agreee I think there's a chance that that game might get to a point where yeah people really start to discover it down the road and all those that are still sitting there all of a sudden are going to start becoming look at Circus Vol ter I mean they couldn't sell those when they they came out and now they're $10,000 games yeah yep you yeah that was a tournament prize for a long time just trying to get rid of them yeah yeah yeah that's a great game I like circus volter is a beautiful game um well I'll just finish my list in uh my second one which really once again very surprising I get it we're at a point now these are not tournament ready games but still Star Wars Star Wars episode one the the um pinball 2000 game I get it pinball 2000 games in general is is I get it I get it and revenge for Mars I do think is the better game I do think it is a better game it's you know Revenge from Mars has all the humor all the animations but this is Star Wars episode one what happened was I had Hot Wheels and Zach was like hey um somebody's coming to get Hot Wheels they're trading me they traded him a Star Wars episode one with cash um and then it was another Playfield he had the other the additional Playfield of AR ringe from ours and he's like so you get this and um just hold on to it for two weeks or whatever and then I get so I get it in my garage I'm looking at the game I'm like do I even want to unbox this game do I even want to unpack it I'm not going to move a pinball 2000 game all the way into my basement when I know it's gonna leave two weeks later like I'm not messing with that but I set it up in the garage and I had a good time with it I had a good time with the game so once again in my mind are there 223 better games than Star Wars episode one Keith is saying this 223 285 better games than Star Wars episode one you think Star Wars episode one should be the worst game on on this list that's what between Thunderbirds and Hercules okay so explain explain to me why why this game is absolute garbage God okay Joel lock the ball lock that's it lock the ball show show me you locking the ball and then okay and then it's garbage absolute garbage just shoot in the saucers yeah just shoot it in the saucer if you get it to stick you you win yeah I know they there's a little bit of rejection and by a little I mean all of it but but you have those spinners on the ramps that are uh the virtual Spinners are you guys talking about Star Wars episode one I'm not trying to rain on your parade no no I don't own the game I'm not yes we are I'm not you know flying as flag shoot it up just keep shooting up the middle you'll you'll get something going I it just once again though in my in my mind so so okay fine is is it maybe it should be in the two I just if I play the game are there 225 game 223 games that are better in Star Wars episode in my mind no but that's just my that's my mind I wish I could see Travis's face right now oh he loves Star Wars he's just gonna go yeah Joel you're Travis normally agrees he agrees with most of what I say I think we line up on a lot of things clearly um I wish I should have done a Travis soundboard you know if I would have known if I would have known it would have been a lot of bro and um I I I I I would place it a little bit higher than uh Bugs Bunny's birthday ball it's that bad okay it's that bad it's not great wow wow wow okay well my last one and this is this uh this is just to make Carl D'Angelo twitch my last game is um Big Buck Hunter big buck Big Buck Hunter okay Big Buck Hunter and Carl is now in a cold sweat uh Big Buck Hunter is currently ranked at 255 255 um I know um Nick from Buffalo pinball he owns one loves it um I don't that's not a 255 really like it's better than that it's better than that um what is there have you guys ever played it in a tournament oh yeah it's it's a brutal Tournament game okay what what was the game I'm sorry there's a lot of commotion back here Big Buck Hunter oh yeah that's on my list hey okay I just I came can you hear me can you hear me no he's staring uh he he uh he messaged the group he said you're an idiot Joel oh so he's listening so he's listening you can hear me we can hear you now yes you can hear me though the video's Frozen but we can hear you do matter uh we'll see me uh maybe Travis can talk I give me a few seconds cuz that's fine you're dog yeah it's the dog you can hear me Tom got a new dog we can hear you Travis yes there's like a 20 second delay Keith maybe it's just you and me it's just you and me start talking about Star Wars okay I don't