coming at you out of st charles illinois the special when lit pinball podcast starts now hey what's going on pinball land welcome to episode number 52 of the special when lit pinball podcast my name is ken cromwell and i am bill webb and there's not a lot going on in the pinball news but we're going to do our best for the next 30 minutes or so to keep you informed and entertained along the way. Bill, what's going on? Just living the dream. Some nice weather out here and just calm before the storm, it seems like, once again. Yep, weather's changed in Chicago. We're in the 50s now, and today in the 70s, so we'll take it. Yeah, it's t-shirt weather. Makes you want to play pinball outside a little bit. Yes, it does, actually. A little outside pinball. Hey, but you and I have talked about this, dude. We would love to do a stream outside one of our gazebos. Oh, we will. Yeah. We will absolutely do that. I'm sure all the neighbors are going to be like, what in the heck is going on with these guys? I want to do a podcast outside from the gazebo, and that would be fun, too. I don't care if there's background ambient stuff, just to be outside, relaxing, get a little, some wind and some car action. Some umbrella drinks. Maybe, yeah, some umbrella drinks, some barking dogs. Yeah. We'll go out in the elements where pinball should be covered out in the middle of nowhere. Bugs bunnies chewing up the wires because we're not paying attention. Right. It would be a good time. Exactly. I think what we're going to do today is we're just going to cover the manufacturers one by one and just talk a little bit about what's happened so far this year and what we might anticipate is going to happen here in the next few months. We'll knock out a little drain it or save it. We'll catch up on Bill's whirlwind corner there, and then we'll close this bad boy out. How does it sound? Sounds good. Before we do that, though, I've got a really cool email today from Rob Bruton. Do you mind if I read this to you? No, please do. It's a little long, so I may edit some of this out, but I just want you to get the gist of it because I think you're going to enjoy this one. He says, Derek, Ken, and Bill, first off, you guys are great. Sidebar, any email that starts off like that. It's going to make sure we read that one. We're looking for donations. Right. It gets better. He says, I honestly don't have any negative feedback. I appreciate your honesty and how you guys are down to earth and relatable. I like how you guys fully explain who or what you're talking about and even give a little for those of you who might not know inserts for the new-to-the-hobby people like me. Those comments are very helpful. I also appreciate the plugs of companies, sites, and forums you guys suggest or talk about. It's allowed me to follow these and learn even more about this great community. Love every aspect, interview, segment of your show. No complaints. So I'm feeling pretty good right now. Absolutely. Right? Yeah. He goes on to say, he goes, you're my go-to pinball podcast. Still making my way through older episodes while staying up to date on new. Your show has actually really helped the last week or so. My wife and I had our first baby two weeks ago yesterday. So, hey, congratulations. Absolutely. We've all been there. She was six weeks early. She's still in the NICU. We've been staying there with her every day and almost every night. In the past week, I've had to go back and forth to work. Now, this is where it gets kind of cool, right? The hospital is an hour from my work and an hour and a half from our house. Now, running home to take care of pets, Mo, et cetera, takes for some long days and short nights. Needless to say, not getting much sleep on the tiny, maybe twin-size hospital couch I share with my wife in our daughter's room. Here's where I thank you guys. Your podcast is one of the only things keeping me awake while I drive. It's entertaining, holds my interest, not boring, and I don't want to miss a second. Not to mention it's a nice break from the current feeling of not being able to control much. Just wanting to let you guys know, you may be helping people more than that you know. he says can't wait to share this hobby with my beautiful baby girl once she's out and she's old enough oh and once i actually get my first pinball machine and he says in parentheses current pinball machine fund has obviously become spoken for right hey we all go through it exactly he says and he becomes a true member of the community ha ha uh thank you again for what you do and for doing it so well sorry for the long read special one lit pinball podcast train it or save it it's always is going to be a save it thanks again rob bruton uh first off rob thanks man rob thank you very much um i'm honestly just taken back you know thank you very much for the positive words um i can't help but think back to you know three and a half years ago when my daughter was born and knowing that we're like you know 22 weeks away from our next child being born and uh going through the hospital bed you're the the hospital couch and just running back and forth i mean i I still remember those struggles, and we'll be reliving them soon. So glad we could help you. But more importantly, pinball is definitely a second to kids. So that is awesome you and your wife have a new child. And honestly, just thank you very much for all the kind words once again. Yeah, super nice. The thing that I really appreciated about the email, and I've gone through this too, I think everybody has emotional ups and downs and highs and lows, and your schedule gets busy, And sometimes things feel like they're spinning out of control. And some people have vices for that. Other people don't have vices. They're looking for ways to cope or they're just looking for an escape from a reality or from a situation. And for me, this has happened. To know that I've got a handful of pinball podcasts on my podcast app, it's nice to know that no matter what happens, if I want to have an escape into something that I love, I can tune into one of those podcasts, look for their most recent upload. But if I if I've already listened to that, a lot of these shows, I can go back and I can find one in the vault. You know, you've got shows that have put up a ton of content. So, you know, in Rob's situation where he's like, you know what, I've got these long drives to and from work. It's probably his time to kind of decompress, have some time to himself before he's got to go to work or he's got to be there for his family. And to know that special when lit has been kind of brought into that situation to kind of help him relax means a lot to us. And again, we're not out. We haven't won a Nobel Peace Prize or anything like that. Well, it's in the mail. Yeah, it is. Is it in the mail? It's the snail mail. No, we haven't. We don't make any money doing this. I mean, this is just purely for entertainment and good content. It's very humbling to know that we are an escape or we can pass time for anybody, whether you're driving to or from work, you're working on a machine, you're in the bathroom, you're in the shower, that sort of thing. Driving along. Think of Bill when you're in the shower, not me. No, no, no, no, no. We're not that type of podcast. Unless you're one of the ladies of pinball, then go ahead. I don't know if Mrs. Webb would appreciate that. Okay, no. Yep, yep, yep. We'll hold that off. All right. Just a bit outside. But anyhow, I wanted to start the show off in a nice, positive way. So, Rob, thanks for the email. Good luck with everything, and let us know when you get your first machine. I think it's great that you're listening to Pinball Podcast, and you're not officially in the pinball ownership club, but you're absolutely part of the pinball club. So welcome aboard, buddy. Hey, Rob. Yeah, dude, we've got to get you some pinball time once things calm down somewhere, man. So if anyone's local to Rob, man, you've got to host a brother out. Yeah, get him going. He could definitely use a break after going through this stuff. And I'm sure there's – how many listeners still remember going through those jitters of going to the hospital and just being out of your mind exhausted? A lot of it is actually the first time you get a pinball machine, you can kind of correlate it to the first time you bring a kid home because you're excited, you're anticipating this baby coming. You're excited. You're anticipating getting this new pinball machine. You go out to where somebody's showing you how this pinball machine works. And in the hospital, you've got the nurses showing you how the baby works. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? And you're freaking the first time they leave you alone. It's like, dude, I am not responsible enough for this child. Well, that's where I'm going. Right. So then you get your pinball machine in the car. Your first one, you're driving real slow because you don't want to hit a bump where it's going to break everything. And when you get a baby in your car for the first time, you're white-knuckling it on the way home. Dude. Yeah, and you know I drive for a living. So literally the first time my daughter was in the car, I was just paranoid. And, dude, you see me driving like a madman. You're crazy, man. Yeah. So, you know, dude, I'm two hands on the wheels, dude, doing five miles under. Some dude's getting close to me. I'm mumbling some words under. Oh, yeah. But it's funny. So you're driving home with the baby, with your pinball machine. You're nervous. Then the realization comes that you bring the baby in your house or you bring your pinball machine in your house and you're on your own. If something goes wrong, it's up to you to figure that out. And it can be a little bit of a stressful situation. So, I mean, I'm starting to really, it comes full circle or your first baby and your first pinball machine, very similar experiences. And then what happens is by the time you have the second or third kid, you know, you're driving home like a Bill Webb, not, not concerned with anything else. You know, you're flying, the baby's rolling around in the backseat, no big deal. And your pinball machine, you got two in the back and one strapped to the roof and you don't care because it doesn't make a difference. You know, you're going to bring it home set it up and if anything goes wrong you got to figure it out the confidence level goes up for each kid that you have the confidence level and pinball goes it increases with each pinball machine that you have so pinball pinball machines and babies are the exact same thing it's just babies cost a little bit more if that makes sense yeah you don't have to buy diapers for the pinball machine though no no but sometimes you have to buy diapers for yourself when you're trying to work on a pinball machine yeah yeah or bandages when the wife starts throwing stuff because you bought another one yeah it's expensive hobbies either way making babies or not making the babies but taking care of the babies and pinball machines. And I've got three kids. Bill's got one and one on the way. So, again, Rob, welcome aboard. Good luck to you, brother. Welcome aboard. Stay in touch with us. Let us know what's going on with the baby. Right now, Stern Pinball, right? Let's just go manufacture, manufacture, and see what's going on. Diving in the deep end on this one already, huh? Just a little bit. Hey, I'm up for it. Let's go. This is going to be not a very long episode, but I do want to kind of touch base. What are we hearing about Stern right now? Black Knight Sword of Rage has been out. Actually, it's been about a month now since it's been out. Right. So the feedback's kind of all over the place. It seems to me that there's a – I mean, just like any machine, there's a group of people that has a following and they appreciate it. And there's a group of people that don't appreciate some things that may or may not be on the machine. All in all, par for the course, I think, with a pinball machine release. I do have to say, though, I do like how Steve Ritchie has jumped on Facebook and started answering some questions when people have little headaches or little hiccups with the machine. I mean, these are – nothing is infallible. So that's nice that he jumps on there and tries to interact and give people educated responses on what they can do to fix it. So hats off to Steve. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't get better than the designer telling you how to tweak a machine. I remember when we went in, and for those of you that might not have listened, we did interview Steve Ritchie last year. Go ahead and check that out if you get a chance. But when we were sitting down, I was talking to him about Star Wars and stuff, and I was telling him a few issues that I had with it. And he's like, well, you've got to do this, you've got to do that, you've got to do that. And sure enough, I went home, made those corrections. The machine played a lot better for me. So Steve doesn't shy away from that sort of thing. No, no. We are hearing some rumors potentially that there's going to be a new version of Batman 66. And I think I heard that on Canada's Pinball Podcast. He's saying that he's hearing that there's going to be a potential release of a Catwoman release, which I think is cool. I imagine would have been created by Christopher Franchi at that point. Do you think that if, let's say Catwoman comes out and it's a Batman 66 Catwoman version, Is that the last of Christopher Franchi's artwork that you're going to ever see on a Stern machine? Yeah, that's what it sounds like with what's going on in the world today with how he's kind of been toting his business around. Which, you know, whatever, that's his business. That's his business, right? Whatever. But, you know, here's the funny thing about this now that I think about it is, you know, a couple months ago you had them putting the signed cards from Adam West in the premiums. Yeah, in some of the premiums, right? They had some signed cards. Yeah, to try and drum up a little bit of love for it. Now you've got Catwoman coming out. So it's like, you know, is this the end of the run or, you know, is it the search for more money? You know. Right. And I hate to say it that way, but it will, you know, I mean, it's going to be what it's going to be. So. Well, remember, so that was a Kamikau or a Kamikau. That was a Kapow pinball release coinciding with Stern pinball. So they had kind of a joint effort on that. I wonder how long the license goes for. I know Batman 66 has really gained popularity over the last several months. and that's as the code has evolved that machines really become something of a collector's item for a lot of people and they're having fun playing it well and that and that game had a you know a sordid pass too well you know for the first year the code wasn't that deep so right you know it wasn until after the first year year and a half that it really got you know its legs and started growing on people i just wonder if catwoman does come out and if Chris and Stern decide that they not going to be on the same page with anything anymore if this is kind of a collector item for somebody too that appreciated Franchi working at Stern I'm not saying he's left Stern. Maybe Stern has left him. Maybe he's left Stern. Maybe they both love each other. I have no clue. But, again, it's just an interesting situation. And we always wish Chris the best, obviously. He's a good friend of ours. So, yeah, let's just think what happened. The Slapstay Pinball podcast revealed some artwork by Christopher Franchi. It was for Superman 78. Correct. And again, it's it's the second theme that it looks like Chris had kind of worked on that was not picked up by Stern Pinball. There are those that are speculating that he might be burning some bridges by throwing that artwork out there. And then, you know, there are those that say, you know, Stern passed on the license. So what do they care? I guess I don't know if that causes friction or not. Do you think that Stern minds that he's kind of showing what could have been? Or do you think it's just like, hey, well, you know, we passed on it, so what do we really care? So, you know what, I might get blasted on this. But you know what, I mean, I don't see them caring a whole lot. I'm sure that they don't want him to do that. You know, because what if it is the next greatest title, you know, Jersey Jack or Charlie picks it up. And, dude, they knock it out of the park with that title. And, you know, it's the best-selling game next to Adam's family. You know, you never know. But the thing about that for me is that theme doesn't draw me in as much. So to me, I think the artwork was nice, but just the theme alone doesn't pull me in on that title as much. So to me, it's not really a big loss in that aspect. Same kind of time frame there, dude. I'd rather see an airplane pinball machine. Like a true, you know, I mean, I think you'd have much more traction with that theme than Superman 78. But I am kind of on the younger demographic side on that, I think. I like the idea of a Superman 78. It was one of those iconic movies for me that I watched and watched and watched forever. And, you know, I don't know how well it stands up now when you have, like, our kids watching this stuff because they constantly need to be entertained and there can't be any kind of story or dialogue. Otherwise, you lose interest. So would my kids come downstairs and want to play a Superman 78? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. But I'm buying pinball machines now more for myself than I am my family because it's just I've come to the realization that my kids, their interest in pinball only goes so far. And that passion is not going to be there like I have it. So, you know, selfishly, I buy pins for myself. Beetlejuice, I could really care less about as a theme. Batman or Batman, Superman 78. I'm going to argue that one. I think Beetlejuice could have been cool. I think it could have been cool, but it wasn't a movie. I think I saw Beetlejuice once. All right. Yeah, I was like, yeah, that's all right. It's kind of interesting. But, you know, we watch. that quite a few times as a kid. So that's why, you know, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. See, now that's where I'm going, right? Yeah, right. You watch that a bunch of times, and it's like it weighs, like it's heavy on you. Like it's something that you would want to see. I watched Superman probably a hundred times, you know. So, I mean, I can see me getting more into that pinball machine than I could Beetlejuice that I've watched maybe one or two times. So it's just what pulls at the heartstrings from when you were a kid, in all honesty. But, yeah, Beetlejuice I think would have been cool. But, you know, I mean, here's the thing. If they don't have people that really want to do it, then, you know, why go at it halfway and have something that's not a great product? So, you know, hats off. If you haven't seen the Superman 78 proposed artwork that Stern declined to accept as a license, you can head over to the Slap Save Pinball Podcast Facebook page where they posted those pictures. And you can check out that art package. Let's go to who's our number two manufacturer right now in our books? Probably Jersey Jack Pinball as far as volume and machines coming out. It's got to be Jersey Jack or CGC. So Jersey Jack pinball, we know Yellow Brick Road is out. It's shipping. People are getting those machines. We are all anticipating what the manufacturing timeline is going to be on Willy Wonka. So what I'm hearing is that June, most likely, we'll start seeing some standards getting into homes. And limited editions could be following as close as July. So we'll see what happens with that rollout. Anything that you're hearing Jersey Jack pinball-wise, and do you have any issues with what's going on over there right now? No, you know what? Honestly, I just can't wait to get a machine in the studio and play it. So I'm looking forward to that. I'm really looking forward to that too, man. I cannot wait to get Wanka in here and play it and stream it. I'm most anxious about getting a lot of our friends over here and play it and experience it like we did. And just curious to see what their reactions are. Yeah, absolutely. I get kind of caught up because how can you not be blown away by that game when you actually see it? If you don't see it and you're watching a stream or something, not to go back too far, but just the experience that we had, that game is awesome, and I can't wait to be reunited with that machine again. I know, right? Exactly. It's interesting, too, because we have a handful of friends that are not as heavy into pinball, whereas they're not following the pinball news. They're not following reviews. They're not following podcasts, some of them not even ours, which is fine. So that's why I really want to see their reaction to the pinball machine without having any type of outside influence. I haven't shared my experience on this machine with everybody that's in our pinball club. I think I just kind of shared it on our podcast in between ourselves, and we'll see what happens with that. You know what? I can't wait for Jeff to come back because our friend Jeff is out of town right now. He has no idea about this machine. He's at FBI training camp. Which is a true story. Right. It is a true story. You hear the X-Files music? Yeah, but nonetheless, he doesn't know about this machine, so I can't wait for him to come back and see his expression when he sees that machine. Unbiased, un... He probably hates that movie. You know, knowing that, yeah. He's like, this is no Star Wars. I'm on a diet. I can't watch a chocolate pin. Yeah. He's losing the weight. Oh, yeah. Yeah, see? Okay. So maybe we don't put a... Oh, I guess the next thing would be... Well, never mind. I should get a diner pinball machine and a stack of hamburgers in here. I know. Well, hey, he deserves it, right? No, he does. He does, man. He's worked hard for where he's at. So, Jersey Jack, do you think that we see another game from Jersey Jack before the end of the year? I'm hoping so. What game is that going to be? Okay, so I'm going to go off of wishful thinking and maybe not reality, what reality might bring. But I'd love to see GNR, man. Guns and Roses. I think that's what you're going to see. I hope so. And this is the reason that I'm thinking. And I could be off base here. but so pat lawler he nails out dialed in right you have eric that comes back and he was working he was already working on uh pirates of the caribbean when dialed in was was launched right so then pirates comes out then pat lawler he's working on uh at that point he's working on waka so waka rolls out now eric's been working on his game i would assume his next game for a while and it could be a new designer too that we don't know about but you know sorry no we don't know i I mean, we're just spinning the wheel of speculation. But let me ask you this. Especially recently, you're hearing how at least Stern Pinball is like, we don't want to put our team on something that they're not passionate about. It's just for us, it just makes sense to have these guys motivated to work on a theme. Who do you think is going to be more motivated to work on a Guns N' Roses pinball machine? Would it be Pat Lawler or would it be Eric Minier? I don't see Pat Lawler jamming out some Paradise City back in the day. I mean, maybe he did. I don't. Maybe he did. But again, we don't know what's on his iPad or his iPod. Hey, I'm going to pull this out, though, dude. Before you knew me, what would you think would be on my iPod? Oh, a lot of Mississippi mud music, man. And what's on my iPod? What's not on your iPod? It's probably a little easier to, you know. So you never know. You seem a little more diverse musically than Pat Lawler. And that's just me making a general assumption. Now, full disclosure, I've not had a music conversation with Pat. But Pat just seems like he's a little bit more controlled and reserved to kind of go out there and go balls to the wall with a Guns N' Roses pin. That's just me. I think he's working on Toy Story, which is a big license. Guns N' Roses is a big license. I think Eric's hungry. He's ready to get his next game out. So if I had to speculate and guess, and I've not had any conversations about this with anybody at Jersey Jack Pinball, I would say Expo, we see another machine, I think maybe Guns N' Roses. and then going into first or second quarter of 2020, you've got Toy Story that comes out, which I think would probably be Pat Lawler. Now, to your point, there are variables. There could be another designer that comes in. It could have this flip-flop. None of these games could be coming out. It could be Voltron, Defender of the Universe, for all we know. Hey, man, you know what? It could be Wizard Blocks. It could be. Well, that was dialed in, wasn't it, pretty much? Well, whatever. Up for debate. So I have to backpedal here for half a second, though. Okay. So tell me how awesome that would be to get into a music debate with Pat Lawler about NWA and their breakup and how Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg. I could just see him say, you know, Gin and Juice was a very good song. That would be hilarious to do a Pat Lawler, Gin and Juice conversation. Ice Cube, when he came out with his song. He would probably blow our doors off with something like that. Never underestimate a Pat Lawler. No, man, that would be awesome. We've got to call up Jersey Jack tomorrow and find that out. I'm thinking of his past themes. Has he ever done a music pin? I don't think so. Yeah. And Eric hasn't either, but he's only done one machine. I mean, he's worked on machines at Jersey Jack. So I don't know. That's what I'm kind of thinking. If you're going to match the theme with a designer, I think it's got to be GNR with Eric, and it's got to be Lawler with Toy Story, if those are, in fact, the next two themes. And if Lawler was doing a music pin, it'd have to be like Tupac or NWA. Okay. Yeah. Well, all right. Hey, we'll see. Maybe we'll reach out to Pat and ask him his top five favorite bands. We'll report on that next week. Yeah, dude, we'll definitely have to do that. We have a little rapport with him now after doing the panel interview. Dude, if anyone of those is a rap artist, I'm going to drop the mic and walk away. But we can move on. We'll move on. American Pinball. Hey, let's go CGC. There you go. CGC. Now, interestingly enough, I had a conversation today with the sales manager at CGC, and his name is Ryan White. You probably see him come out at the pinball shows. He represents CGC. And this is what he discussed with me. First off, he said, for those of you that are waiting on your Monster Bashes, whatever version it is or it's an LE, they are in full production of those, and they plan on having all the orders filled by June. Wow. June or July. So what happens then is after that comes off the line, you will they will be doing a mini run of medieval madness now the medieval madness price is going to be the exact same price that it was on its initial release okay okay so there's no price change and it's going to be their standard edition of medieval madness which i think is what is eight grand 79 99 something like that uh yeah i'm not sure but yeah we'll just call it that sounds good enough so expect everything to all the orders to be filled on monster bash remakes uh june july and then a small run of Medieval Madness. Are they going to throw Attack back in there too? I don't know. Okay. So after that, I mean, I guess their line is set up where they could put Attack from Mars back on. I mean, potentially they could put Monster Bash back on if there were more orders. But he said Monster Bash has sold extremely well, but they've got everything in order where they'll have those orders filled. So if you guys are waiting, you shouldn't be waiting much longer, four, six weeks, four to six weeks. I would say you're good to go. All right. Oh, and one other thing, international shipping orders, because we've got a couple of friends overseas that are waiting on their Monster Bashes. Those are also being filled and will be done within that run. So if you've waited this long, hang on tight because you guys are ready to have the payoff. Yeah, I was talking with somebody about their Monster Bash LE that hadn't gotten it from overseas, and I was like, that sucks, man. Yeah, me too, me too. Are his initials MS? I'm not at liberty to say. So I'm going to spin this wheel of speculation here, Mr. Ken, one more time. Good. Cactus Canyon. If you were a betting man, would you think that that would be the next game, or do you see something else? I think there's been enough conversation and speculation that it makes sense that Cactus Canyon is the next release. And I think we said this before. If it's the Cactus Canyon continued software, I would really want to get in on a Cactus Canyon. If it's the original code as is, probably I wouldn't be as interested because it's limited. It not as complete But if there any variation there we have to see what they did with the code What about you Are you a cactus canyon guy i never got to play it so honestly i really just want to jump on one i haven played it either you know who did a really good review on that um that i appreciate it was straight down the middle zack and greg they had a cactus canyon continued if you get a chance check out their um their facebook page or their youtube page rather yep and that's uh s sdtm sdtm straight down the middle and uh look up the uh cactus canyon continued review It was pretty awesome. Yeah, it was. That really got me going. So American Pinball in, you know, Streamwood, Illinois. Very close to us . We have Oktoberfest here at the studios. We're going to be streaming it tonight. We're recording before we restream. By the time you listen to this podcast, we will have already streamed Oktoberfest with Josh Kugler, who programmed the game. He was lead programmer on the game. And you'll be able to watch it on YouTube. Yeah, it'll be archived at the Flip N Out Pinball channel. So if you get a chance, you can go to twitch.tv slash flipnoutpinball, and you can check that archive. What are we anticipating from American Pinball? Obviously, Oktoberfest is now shipping. It's getting into homes. What's the next game coming out, and when is the next game coming out? Dude, I'm saying Sherlock Holmes, and hopefully, I don't know, February next year. I'm also thinking, if it's from the four themes that they had discussed, Poker Run, Valkyries, Sherlock Holmes, or Robin Hood, I hope that it is Sherlock Holmes. I think Sherlock Holmes makes the most sense. And I wanted to make a correction. Dwight Sullivan from Stern did correct me. He said on whodunit, I had improperly reported or discussed that once you know the killer or the person that committed the crime on the game, it's easy for you to go through and know that every single time. But Dwight corrected me and he said that you don't know WHO dunnit every single time. So that was my mistake. But I hope that we do see a Sherlock Holmes. I think it lends itself the best for pinball. I think it also kind of fits in with a lot of what they've been doing, at least with Houdini. Yeah, I think it's a great addition to their lineup with Houdini, like you said. Yeah, yeah. So looking forward to it. Do you think they reveal something at Expo in October? You know what? I honestly hope the next game that they reveal is closer to being on the line. That's my only concern. I think that's a great idea. So maybe TPF. Yeah, that could probably be a good fit. Yeah. TPF or even MGC right after TPF. We are both looking at our phones right now because I'll say this. So a friend of ours, a friend of the show has just, and I'm not going to say who it is in the event that this was given to us in privacy, but we just received a photo of what looks like the lower portion of a play field of a harry potter pinball machine and uh it's it's interesting we'll see where this goes we'll see where this goes we might not be able to air this yeah i don't i want to be very careful because if this was a leak and uh we are reporting on a leak i don't want to do that that being said uh let's talk about the picture no i'm kidding but I mean, it's got characters, and the artwork looks pretty impressive. You've got inserts, modes, inlanes and outlanes on this. So we'll see where that goes. It does look pretty good, yeah. Yeah, it does look pretty good. So for those of you that might be holding out on a Harry Potter. Hey, maybe it's a Christopher Franchi theme that never got picked up. You know what? It does have a little photorealism on the artwork here. Maybe Franchi's bombing everybody with a little, just to see where it goes. So we're thinking fourth quarter to first quarter of 2020. That's what I'd be thinking. Another machine, potentially Sherlock Holmes from American Pinball. Well, yeah, you want to see them get all the Oktoberfests out first. I think that's it. I think depending on the sales of Oktoberfests, it's going to really have to dictate what goes back on the line. Because if the demand is not there on Oktoberfests, and let's say they sell 300 of them, they should be able to get those 300 orders done. And there's no sense in just sitting on it waiting for people to order more Oktoberfests if the demand isn't there. At that point, it makes sense to just keep the line going, bring your other game on, or contract manufacture for somebody else. Or cut the legs off of it, release your next game in the next two months, and then watch the value of Oktoberfest jump through the roof. Oktoberfest is in an interesting situation. I'm hoping that we have some fun playing that on the stream tonight, and Josh is able to explain the game to us. We don't have a lot of time on it, so we're kind of learning in real time. Again, it's a theme that I supported because I think it's fun. I like a fun party pin, and I'm hoping that that's going to be Oktoberfest. So we'll see. If it is, hey, I'll happily own a little Oktoberfest. Spooky Pinball. And let's do this. Let's go to Dr. John for his weekly Spooky Pinball update. Hello again. And this week's Spooky Pinball update is all about America's Most Haunted. It recently came up on this Flippin' podcast with Tommy Skinner getting his original game back and placing it on location. Interestingly, it actually made more money than his Monster Bash remake. If you haven't had a chance to play it, it's a family-friendly fun game with relatively simple rules, but a lot of difficulty getting to the final wizard mode, which, interestingly, Tommy managed to do. Well done. It's available for sale on Pinside, with four going at the moment, ranging in price between $5,300 and $8,000. also on Pinside, Herg has started a thread labelled colour display for America's Most Haunted he's already filled the pre-orders but he's gone to the effort of making available a colour DMD for the game, which I'm sure will enhance it even further, and if you haven't had a chance to play it, go find one there's not many on location but if you do, I'm sure you'll enjoy it catch you next week so it sounds like spooky pinball Tommy Skinner from The Splitman Podcast has this America's Most Haunted on location. America's Most Haunted. It's out earning Monster Bash. Dude, that's crazy, man. It is pretty crazy. I wonder if it's because it just hasn't been around for a while. I think any time you put a new game on location, it naturally will draw attention. You have a lot of time on America's Most Haunted? I have a few games. It's nothing too crazy. I mean, I thought the concept was cool. Yeah. It's kind of a quirky pinball machine. Yeah. For it to be out earning a Monster Bash, that's pretty impressive. I do like the fact that Pinside user Herg now is offering a color DMD for the game. I mean, that's pretty fun. Anytime you can colorize a game like that, I think it just adds a whole other kind of dimension to the game. It definitely changes it, yeah. The problem is they're not making any more of these, so whatever's out there is out there. So I'm sure it's a limited run for the color DMDs, and that's fine, too. You don't need to mass-produce 5,000 of these things. You get whatever the production number was on that pin. I think it was less than 300 games. Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah, so, I mean, that's pretty fun. So good times. Do you expect anything? We've got Alice Cooper Nightmare Castles. I guess we're not expecting anything through the rest of the year from Spooky Pinball as far as manufacturing a new game because Alice Coopers are now being mass-produced. They're on the line. And they're on the line, and they're getting kicked out to homes. But do we see Scott Denise's next game before the end of the year? He's been teasing it, but do we see a reveal of this game? I think Scott is just jacking with people, man. Yeah, he does. Which is fine. Why not? Oh, yeah, dude. He's Scott. Nothing but love. I wouldn't think so, man. I mean, maybe, dude, honestly, maybe Texas next year is the big game. Yeah. You know? I mean, I wouldn't go showing a game in October if you still got a couple hundred to make and you're two to three months out on finishing the production on that game. Selfishly, I'd like to see the game revealed at Expo. But I think knowing Scott, TPF might be a better venue for him or even maybe MGC or another show. I guess we'll just wait and see what happens. And, you know, I'm anxious to see what the theme is of this game because that's been kept under some pretty good tight wrap. You didn't get to see it either. I saw the Whitewood. Oh, okay. I just don't know what the theme is. Did you flip it? We'll leave that there. Yeah. Did you? Maybe. Okay. Maybe not. I don't know. Anyhow, what's after Spooky? Who do we have? What's up with Great Lakes Pinball? Let's talk about some of these side manufacturers. Now, Brent Bruner had come on our show, and it was a couple months ago he was talking about what's going on with the game. They are rolling out Expose, and I haven't really heard anything updated from them since they had last revealed kind of like a Yeti-like character, I think, on the Bro, Do You Even Talk Pinball podcast. Have you heard anything out of – Yeah, you know what? I've been in communication with Brent off and on. So, you know, I asked him earlier, you know, what was going on. He said, you know, we're making great strides on the game. Their main focus is heavily on making the game deep with modes and flow and also the animations and the artwork of the game. Okay. Which is, you know, I mean, that's a great thing to focus on because you don't want to come out with something that, you know, too early. It always helps to focus on that stuff when you're making a bit more. Oh, yeah, yeah. The flow and the code. And I've spoken with him to greater depths, too. And, you know, honestly, there's not a lot that I want to say about that. Right, no, I understand. Everything that I'm hearing sounds like it's going to be a strong contender, man. Are we going to see the game this year? I don't really want to say because then I might be dispensing information that I shouldn't be. Oh, so you've got a little inside information there. We're not saying that we do. And that's the Special with Late Pinball podcast at gmail.com, careofbillweb. make sure you ask Bill what the release date is going to be on Expose by Great Lakes Pinball. And then they're working now, too, on getting their arcade set up called the Crazy Quarters Arcade. They're hoping to open that in August of this year, featuring like 15 to 16 pinball machines. I know he was talking about having some arcade games there as well. They're in Michigan. Yes. Yeah. So, you know, honestly, we look forward to that, and maybe we'll make an appearance if the time works out and we can make it up there. I would love to take a trip up there. I want to see what they're working on, and I'd love to check out the arcade. I'm digging it. A lot of arcades opening, a lot of barcades, so that's good. So thanks for the update, Brent. Yeah, thanks, Brent. Appreciate it, buddy. Let's go over to Cosmic Carnival by Suncoast Pinball. Cosmic Carnival just got a little facelift lately, and they changed kind of the way that the ramps are utilized in the game so that it doesn't look symmetrical. I think Dennis Creasel, when he was on this week in pinball last week with Zach Men, made an interesting point because when I looked at the game after they kind of redid it, it did not look symmetrical to me anymore because the ramps are going different. They added some things. I love what they did to the game. His point was this. The game's still symmetrical in regards to how the shots are lined up, but the way that the shots are then returned back to the flippers are no longer symmetrical. So he said if you master everything on the left flipper as far as where the ball should be in proportion or in line with the flipper, and you master your shots on one flipper, it's easier for you to master your shots on another flipper. Do you think that that's going to be something that's going to hold the interest for the casual player or for the competitive pinball player? I don't, but some of the greatest games do their very simple layouts, so that could be a toss-up. I know when we played it down in Texas, we were playing less than beta code. hit the start button and it threw a ball out. We didn't get to experience any of the modes or anything. So that's really the hard part that I have with it. It's a gorgeous machine. I think the layout was okay. But for me, because we didn't really get to see animations and stuff like that and feel connected to the gameplay of the machine, that made it a little harder to say whether or not it's going to be a good game, bad game. You know what would be fun is if Zach, because we're streaming under the Flip N Out Pinball channel, we're doing weekly streams for Zach Menne and Nicole. If Zach becomes a distributor for Suncoast, I would love to be able to get some time on a Cosmic Carnival and be able to stream that. Maybe have some of the team out here to stream it or something. That would be pretty cool, too. Yeah. Honestly, if the code for the game is anywhere near what the artwork looks like, it should be a good game. I heard Jason Fowler on the Slap Save Pinball podcast today say that the Dirty Donnie art package on Cosmic Carnival might be in the top three of art packages of all time and he gone back and forth in considering it the number one art package in the history of pinball What's he comparing it to? The history of pinball. Okay. I know, small sample size. Jason, when you hear this, be expecting a call about 20 to 30 minutes after. Just saying. I was a little surprised to hear that. That's pretty. But you know what? Art is subjective. It is, and it appealed to him on such a level. I mean, at that point and at that price point, because that game is $59.95. How does Jason not grab it? Even if he doesn't play it, just to have that artwork displayed in his game room, I think Jason's a buyer. It wouldn't surprise me, but, I mean, if not, dude, we've got to get the man a play field or something. I mean, it is gorgeous artwork on that machine. So, you know, honestly, with them, like I said, I just want to see the quote. He's totally overhyping it and shilling it, though. I'm kidding. Man, I hope the game does well. I love the price. I love how it looks. Jury's out on how it shoots, and I hope that Jason Fowler gets one. You know what? Honestly, I just want to see all these boutique companies get off the ground, make a good product, not screw anyone over. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of the sins of pinball past can be kind of forgotten with a lot of these new manufacturers coming up with good games and not taking pre-order dollars and, you know, moving forward from a lot of that negative past. Deeper pinball, nothing to report. We're still waiting to see what happens. I don't want to speculate anymore. We've kind of did that before in the past, and Robert Mueller's gone on Pinside saying that anything that anyone says is speculation. Unless it comes out of his mouth, that's the only truth. So until Robert is able to kind of offer comment or if he'd like to, you know, come on the show or even answer a couple of questions via email, we will refrain from speculating because I don't think it's fair to him or his company. Again, but I'm looking forward to see what does happen because, in all honesty, that's what I've been anticipating the most over the last several months is to see what Deep Root does and we'll just leave it at that unless you got something you would like to add no they came out last year swinging with a lot of claims and attention-grabbing statements so you know just curious to see how it's all going to pan out this year do you have anything you wanted to talk about in regards to Whirlwind did you ever get that ramp flap that you were supposed to be getting to finish your build bills were one corner um no i have not gotten said ramp flap yet um i was told that it was in the mail yesterday and it should be at my door probably this week but uh we're not holding our breath and the uh the the guy that's supposed to be shipping it had some health concerns um so i mean there's a little bit of leeway given there because you know it's still pinball not not a liver or kidney um but yeah i mean we'll see what happens um but one thing i did want to discuss as we were working on Demolition Man over the weekend and shopping it out and changing bulbs and going through coils and all this kind of stuff. What's Ken's idea of a proper shop job? A shop job to me means that you've done like a topside tear down on a machine. You've taken everything off the play field. You've cleaned it. You've waxed it. You've cleaned everything that you can as far as assemblies and whatnot without having to go ridiculous. So, I mean, if you've got something that has a bunch of dust in it and stuff, you clear it out. You change all the rubbers. do you remove the apron oh you have to remove the apron because that's where the majority of the dust i think ends up i mean i've had shop jobs come back when i was new in the hobby i'm glad that you brought that up and the machine looks beautiful then you take the apron off or something and it looks like it went through a war so the apron is the hidden place for uh dust and dirt so absolutely the apron comes up okay and the reason why i bring this up is demo man at some point um somebody had did a topside teardown ish and they got all the easy stuff um you know simple plastics and uh changed those bulbs that were easy to get to but if you're familiar with demo man it's got that cluster you know yeah flock of uh ramps whoa what uh flock flock is that we're doing now we're just gonna be like that's a bunch of schlitt yeah hey listen man it's just a cluster of ramp gosh um so you know and no one wants to go taking that apart because it sucks and you don't want to break those ramps because you know they're expensive that sucks too yep so you know i was taking this game apart i'm like wow somebody kind of already shopped it out which either way i'm pulling it all apart anyway to make sure everything is perfect uh i had to change both cars in it um flipper coils flipper rebuilds you know that's a thorough shop job that's good that's not a wipe down that's so you're doing everything you should be doing so flipper rebuild kits all that good stuff well yeah but yeah in my eyes you know led it our buddy steve was like oh you're doing a bill web shop job or however you said it you know number love for steve but to me it's yes doing the top side tear down noticing the play field taking out any minor scratches yep waxing the bejesus out of it putting it all back together cleaning all the ramps uh re re-graining all the stainless you know changing the flipper flipper mechs regardless flipper bats i like to do and flipper coils because why not what do you think a proper shop job i know it's going to range on games but what do you think of like a fair price is to ask for a a proper shop job you know what honestly i'm 500 in on uh demo man in 500 in 500 in in parts okay so that's that's like beyond the shop though no because i'm not doing all right then one of the other ones is people are like well you know your idea of a shop job is a cabinet no not necessarily yeah shop job new whirlwind whirlwind has been shopped nine thousand dollar shop job yeah exactly um no but you know what i I mean, literally all the coil sleeves that could be funky change out, take them all apart, spend the time, do it right. You're almost doing like a refurbishing a pin instead of shopping it, though, at that point. Yeah, so with the proper shop job, apron comes off, all the coil sleeves get changed on the game. Especially, I mean, there's some that might be okay, like some of your pop bumpers and mechs that don't get used that often. But honestly, a lot of that stuff I'd rather just change and have that game play like it's brand new and have that brand new experience. It's like the balls. Do you leave the original balls in or do you buy new balls? No, you don't. You change the balls. If I'm going to keep a game, I would like to do everything that you're doing. But if I'm looking to shop a game so that I can turn it and trade it or sell it, I'm not going to that extreme. But I'm still doing a topside teardown and I'm still doing flipper rebuild kits and I'm still LEDing and re-rubbering and all that. But changing coil sleeves and that sort of thing and replacing parts, depending on what they are. Yeah, it's kind of. I was just kind of, that's interesting conversation, man, because you hear a lot of people say shopped. And, and I think some people think a shop is just wiping down a playfield with some Novus. Yeah. And it's just, it's not. Yeah. That's, that's just, you know, putting lipstick on a, on a pig, so to speak. And it's unfortunate because I do know some people that, that just kind of, for the lack of a better term, like Windex a playfield, say that it's shopped and try to flip something for two or three times what they paid. I think that sucks. I clean the rubbers with alcohol. Dude, that's not right. Yeah. Well, so, but you know what? Yeah. I mean, everyone has their own interpretation and I'm sure people are going to be like, What's $500 into a shot? What could possibly cost that? But I'll give them a breakdown if they need to. But I think now, Ken, is that time of the show where we go into drain it or save it. It's time for this week's edition of Drain It or Save It.com, offering you custom quality playfield mods and lighting for your pinball machine. L-E-R-M-O-D-S. Visit Lermods.com today. All right. So I'm kind of walking Ken through this one this week. I love it. Yeah, a little switch up, so hopefully it goes well. So, Superman 78. Do you save it or drain it? Ooh, I save Superman 78 as a theme. I think that, as I said earlier, it's something that appeals to me as a kid. It's nostalgic. I like the game. I think it lends itself well to having some fun modes and having a fast, flowy game. When I think of Superman 78, I think of, like, Steve Ritchie initially as a designer. and, you know, code would be interesting to see how it happens. If the artwork was spiffy looking, for instance, what we saw with Christopher Franchi, I liked most of what I saw there. That would absolutely appeal to me. So Superman 78, I would save it. All right. Well, I'm going to drain it just based off a theme that it doesn't call to me per se as much as other themes would. That said, there have been games where I've changed my mind once I've actually seen something come to fruition, but as it's been stated, this game will never come to fruition, so I think I'm pretty safe on draining it. Willy Wonka is one of those themes that I wasn't interested in seeing until I saw it. And I was like, oh, hey, I like this game. Oh, yeah. I was more enthralled than you were with that one. Yeah. Gotcha. All right. So the next item on the docket is Mouse and Around, $3,000 game. Oh, you know what? A nice example that's pristine, potentially. I think it's really hard to kind of consider prices right now. Off the top of my head, I don't know what a Mouse and Around goes for. Is it a $3,000? Like, what's the pin side average for a Mouse and Around, you know? I don't think it's $3,000. Let's check it out real quick. So, yeah, I mean, the pin side average shows it at like $2,300. So I think that would have to be like a really nice example. And it's going to have to appeal to the collector that is looking for that theme. For me personally, I'm going to drain it. At $3,000, I think there's a lot of other options that I could put my money towards. But that's just because the mousing around is a theme doesn't necessarily call to me. So $3,000 for mousing around, I'm going to drain it. Yeah, I've seen that locally, which is why this kind of came up. I'm going to drain it as well, just because I don't see that game being that sought after. And honestly, I could be wrong, but I know it doesn't call to me as a theme that particularly interests me. And at the $3,000 price point, I'm going to have to drain that as well. Next on the list, pinball in the workplace. Inspired by actual events. I've never worked at a place that had a pinball machine. I can say as an owner of a business, having a pinball machine can go one of two ways. Either I'm taking away from my company's efficiency for the employees that work because they're distracted by a pinball machine, or I'm motivating them with the ability to play a pinball machine on their break or maybe reward them with pinball time. So I think in general, I think if you put pinball anywhere, you could put a pinball in my master bedroom, and I would say save it. So in the workplace, absolutely. I'd love to work for a company that offers pinball in the workplace. I'm going to save pinball in the workplace. So I'm going to have to save this as well. And this is from prior experiences where I brought a Terminator 2 in about a month ago, three weeks ago, into our lunchroom at work, and honestly, it's gotten about 800 plays. Everyone, you know, there's often times that I go in there and I don't see someone playing it. And today, the real fascinating thing for me was, you know, a 42, 45-year-old co-worker of mine was like, I never played pinball until this game showed up. And I was like, dude, were you under a rock? I mean, what happened here? But, dude, he loves going in there and playing it. and it definitely encourages bonding between coworkers and communicating and just building a relationship on a different level. So I'm going to save it as well, and anyone out there, if you've got extra pins laying around, maybe bring them to work. Routing your pins at work. I'm not getting paid for it. I know. It's just there on free play, but, you know. A good time, man, it definitely brings people together, and that's what this hobby is all about, right? The feelings that you're generating in the workplace is greater than any reward that you might receive, Bill. Absolutely. So to cap this up, Superman 78, I drained it and you saved it. Saved it. So mousing around, we both drained that. And pinball in the workplace, we both saved that. So that is our episode of Drain It or Save It. Nicely done, Bill Webb, driving the Drain It or Save It segment, brought to you by Lermods.com. Use coupon code SWL10 at checkout for 10% off your order today. Well, Ken, I think that about sums it up, man. That's episode number 52. Yeah, man. So 52 in the can. We're going to cut this right now. We're going to edit it up and then upload that tomorrow, which when I look at it right now, I think that'll be a Wednesday upload. So we're 24 hours behind our normal upload time. We are going to go right into the Oktoberfest stream with Josh Kugler. So if you're listening to this, check out the Flip N Out Pinball channel on Twitch so you can kind of see what was discussed with Josh as he comes in studio in real time. We want to thank LearMods.com for sponsoring the segment and all the companies that we're able to reach out to. Robin Kim. Yeah, Robin Kim. We want to thank everybody that gave us some information on companies today. I want to thank Dr. John out of Australia. He's doing a great job. We have a new correspondent coming on board that will be covering Multimorphic. So we will hopefully introduce him or her next week as we add to our team of correspondents. For Bill Webb, I am Ken Cromwell. Everybody have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.