coming at you out of st charles illinois the special when lit pinball podcast starts now hello pinball land welcome to episode number 56 of the special when lit pinball podcast i'm ken cromwell i am bill webb for the first time in special when lit pinball podcasting history Myself and Bill are not in the same studio. We are separated today. I am at the Special Inlet Studios. Bill Webb is on remote from his home today. We don't have the chemistry. We can't stare into each other's eyes and talk the sweet nothings of pinball. We have to do it over the web, over the phone kind of today. So how do you feel about that, Bill? Do you miss me a little bit? You know, Ken, this just feels so weird. And, you know, it's a small miracle I actually got all this to function. So I guess now the bar has been raised for Bill Webb. Yeah, is that the case? I think so. Dude, come on. We figured out how to load the computer, get the microphone hooked up. We didn't have an issue. And normally, excuse me, whenever we do stuff with people remotely, dude, there's always like a 20-minute or 30-minute buffer that we have to build in for technical glitches, microphone, headphone, or something. So the fact that this went off without this kind of a hitch today is a small victory. I mean, I think we should just end this episode right now in all honesty. Well, and that's going to conclude Episode 56 of the Special Win Lit Pinball Podcast. For Bill Webb, I'm Ken Cromwell. Everybody have a good morning. No, I'm just kidding. Sorry about that. That would have been the easiest show we ever did. People are going to ask us to always do the shows remote if they're going to be that quick and to the point. Oh, yeah, dude. You can listen to it multiple times on the way to work if you miss something. Right, exactly. I listened to Special Inlet, their best episode, coming in at about a minute 32 today. So that was pretty awesome. With no ads. No, no ads, no ads. But more importantly, what's good in Ken's world? Now, you know what? Both of us had a pretty eventful weekend, and we had some company in from out of town that we were entertaining. We had some exciting things. I don't know, a couple stories I wanted to share about that. Before we get into it, though, let's briefly kind of go into the pinball news. If you want to go manufacturer by manufacturer, it's been a few episodes since we've kind of updated status. And I wanted to start with Stern Pinball. I guess people are wondering what is the next release. When is the next release coming? Elvira 3 is rumored to be coming out, I guess, in October now, based on the Elvira Fang Club newsletter that she sent out, stating that she's excited about her third installment of the Elvira Pinball series will be released in October. We cannot confirm that date, and asking Stern to confirm a future date is just not going to happen. They cannot confirm or deny, as Zach Sharp likes to say, so I understand that. But before Elvira, we've got to have another pin that's in the pipeline, and I'm trying to wrap my head around what you might think could be coming next from Stern Pinball. Have you been hearing anything? You know what, honestly, just the Jurassic World kind of rumors. So, I mean, I'd be surprised if that was not next. But you have to give it up to Stern lately. I mean, there hasn't been a whole lot of rumor leak coming out of there. So it's hard to really tell now, you know. Yeah, I agree. Before you get a good judge of what was coming next because you'd say, okay, you hear Guardians or Star Wars or Black Knight, any of these games. You kind of knew about it six months in advance before they were coming out. So, I mean, you kind of had a rough idea what was coming next, and we really don't. So, I mean, kudos to them, dude, for keeping the lid on this. Yeah, no, I agree. And I kind of like it that way. I think when you know the next release or the next two releases, it kind of can take the air out of the excitement of the release of the pinball machine. So I have no problem not knowing what's coming next. And what will eventually happen is there will probably be some type of a leak or a teaser that will get uploaded somewhere. We'll probably figure out what's coming next from Stern on IGN.com. you know, for the official reveal. And then we'll be looking forward to see when the stream or with Jack Danger is or what show this pin is going to show up at. So, I mean, where do we see this? When do we see this? Are you expecting something? We're in June, right? So we're in June of 2019. Do you expect something to be announced this month? Do you expect something July? Are you thinking August? What are you thinking? I would think this month or next month at the very latest. Okay. I can't see them stretching it a whole lot further than that just because of the game cycle. If you were to put it in perspective this way, so let's just say they released a game at the end of this month, the beginning of next month. So let's go off the premise that it was Jurassic World. Of course, two or three days before, dude, you're going to see a Stern logo with a dinosaur sitting on top of it or eating it or something funny like that, kind of similar to like Deadpool or things they've done in the past. and that would leave you two or three months before you start shipping Elvira's. I mean, you would think that they would probably do Elvira kind of early to capitalize on the whole Halloween theme and everything else. So, I mean, I would say probably sooner than later if I were to guess. I think Elvira in October would be perfect timing. I only hope that they consider using Expo as a platform to have the game on display. I would love to see Stern kind of bring a new release to Expo, support the hometown show, You know, give a little added incentive for people to get over to Expo. And again, with that being Expo being like the third week of October, it coincides with Halloween. Expo used to be a really large industry show where people would come in and they would they would be able to see what's coming next. And vendors would be there. You know, pinball shows have kind of evolved into something that's more of like a fanfare versus an industry show. But I would I would really hope that Stern considers doing that. I don't know. What typically seems to happen is like the Consumer Electronics Show is where we're seeing Stern pinballs revealed. MGC. Yeah, well, MGC, yeah, they brought Black Knight there this year. So I guess, again, it's a wait-and-see attitude. But, again, I hope Stern considers Expo because I know I will be there, and you may or may not be there, depending on little Baby Bill who will be coming around that same time. So we'll see what happens. Chicago Gaming Company. Now, our buddy Marc Silk from the U.K., he was excited. Do you know why? I'm waiting for it, in all honesty. He got confirmation of shipping of his Monster Bash LE. So if you remember a few episodes back, right, we were talking about these games are going to be getting out over the next couple months. So here we are in June, and these are finally starting to ramp up a little bit. So if you're waiting for your Monster Bash, I would expect some type of shipping notification or at least being contacted from your distributor that you should have that within the next, I don't know, four or six weeks, you probably guys will have your game. So that's pretty fun. I'm just glad he's got his game coming on the way, in all honesty. Yeah. You know who's glad that he's got his game coming is Mark. Mark's pretty glad he's got his game coming. He's been playing Flintstones. He picked up a Flintstones out there. And the cool thing with Mark is because he's a professional voiceover actor, he's done voices for Flintstone cartoons. So he's actually going in with a pin sound, and he's redoing the entire audio for the game, and he's kind of coming up with his custom sound package. So I may have to get a Flintstones just so that I can ask him for a copy of his custom sound package. And I could totally see you doing that too. I totally would do it. Yeah. So keep that in mind, Mark, if you're listening. Bill, something quirky like that, man, can draw me into a machine. And I owned a Flintstones, and I actually think Flintstones is a pretty underrated game. It's a fun game, and it's colorful, and it's one of those games where you don't really want to color bomb a pinball machine with ridiculous LEDs because, in my opinion, it just looks a little bit too gaudy. Flintstones is one of those few pins where you can get away with a lot of color, and it just looks like Fruity Pebbles in a box, man. It's pretty cool. I definitely thought it was a cool game, and you don't see a lot of them. No, you don't. I mean, that's kind of the uniqueness about that game, which is cool. So I do think you need to get that alternate playfield decal and that alternate. Well, there's several alternate trans lights, some a little more family friendly than others for Flintstones. But I would, you know, suggest taking that movie theme and making it into the cartoon theme whenever possible. When we go over to Jersey Jack pinball. Now, people are wondering what's up with Waka, right? Because Jack has kind of said, listen, we're not going to put ourselves. We're not going to hang ourselves out to dry and announce a game and not have it ready to ship. And when he was on our special one lit making of Willy Wonka episode, he said that he was predicting that by July 4th, which is coming up, these games will officially have been shipping. And you'll start seeing like unboxings and things of that nature. Now, right now, what's the date? 11th, June 11th, probably. Yeah, that sounds right. Yep. June 11th, June 11th, June 12th. We're double checking the facts here, dude. You know, in all honesty. Right. So here we are on June 11th, 2019. and I guess I was listening to this week in pinball. Jeff Patterson, I guess, reached out to Jack Gunnery, who's the owner of Jersey Jack Pinball, president of Jersey Jack Pinball, and they said that WACA's not on the line yet. Now, if WACA's are supposed to be out, say, first week of July, and they're not on the line as of this past weekend, do you think it's still possible for them to get them on the line this week or next and have games shipping first week of July? I do, but honestly, I mean, I think I have a little more patience with that because when we were initially talking, they said they would be shipping within the 90-day mark. So, I mean, in all honesty, that leaves them like July 13th where they would fall in that 90-day mark to be able to ship. So, you know, if it's the next couple of weeks, you know, even three weeks from now, I think I'd still have a little bit of patience. I know some people might not be, but, you know, I don't think, you know, I think at that point Jack holds true to his word and no harm, no foul. So, yeah, and I would also say I'm thinking to myself, If these games can just be shipping in July, that would almost be something that is a victory, you know, just to get the games out. So I think the one thing that has to be concentrated on is you don't want to have a rush job. You don't want to have a situation where you're getting games out the door just for the sake of meeting a deadline. And then you kind of lack a little bit on the quality control. And I'm not saying that that's ever happened over there, but I can see, you know, trying to meet a deadline and trying to appease the public where it might be natural to consider cutting corners. I think once these games get out and they're in homes, them being set up and being able to be played properly is going to be just as important as getting them there a week or two earlier. So let's hope that that works itself out. Yeah, you know what I mean? And you can't stress that enough. I mean, if it's a little bit late, you know, because of quality control, you'd rather that than have, you know, a few thousand people pissed at you because something stupid happened. So, you know, but I think all the best for Wonka. So high hopes. I wanted to read a quick email, and this is kind of directly is related to Jersey Jack Pinball, and it's from Michael Chalice. And Michael's reached out to us before, but I thought you'd find this interesting. Now, it's a longer email. I'm going to abbreviate here, but you'll get the gist of it because I found it interesting. And he says, been enjoying the podcast as always. I've seen a little of the new streams. Love what I've seen, but I've not had enough time to watch. He thinks that the streams are the most enjoyable streams of all games that he's ever watched. A great format. So thanks for that, Michael. Wow, thank you. Enough of the self-promotion, Bill, right? So he says, I thought you guys might be interested in something. I was looking at the other day while I waited to roll out of the office. He says, as an owner of Jersey Jack, Pirates of the Caribbean LE, I felt fortunate to own one of the 1,000 JJP Pirates of the Caribbean and did not have many problems with it now that it looks like everyone is sold out and the used games are commanding new in box price or higher I thought it would be interesting to look back at some of the old pin side posts about 14 months ago when Eric announced the changes to the game now for those of you that don't know the changes of the game they took the three concentric ring mechanism and they kind of put that down to one and the chest that was opening and closing was just staying open. And a lot of people were kind of up in arms because they had deposit money down and they felt that the game was altered and the price did not change, even though the game changed. So there was some uproar. He goes on to say, as I read the posts, it became curious as to what the poster said and what they ended up doing as far as buying the game based on their pin side profile. Now, he says these are in the order in which they were posted. He said, note that I intentionally left off the name of the Pinside posters, though, interestingly, some of those who said that they're done now are some of the biggest Jersey Jack pinball pirates of the Caribbean fans on Pinside. So and what he did is he listed, man, I want to say maybe 20 different posts from Pinside members talking about how when that was released, how they said, I'm out, I'm done. This is it. We're going to burn them at the state. Right. nonsense my collector's edition yeah somebody i've got a collector's edition sit in the house you know yeah it's exactly what it is man it's perfect he goes uh so like for an example he goes i can't be bought but i do have a price yeah dude keep going i'm sorry man i'm just laughing no no it's great entertainment man right here he goes right so so post number one says uh i'm no longer sure if i'm buying pirates of the caribbean after the changes and then the update owns jersey Jack Pirates of the Caribbean LE. That's the update later. It's there. It's in his game-owning profile. Here's another post. He says, Pirates of the Caribbean CE number 17 is now available if anybody wants it. Sadly, had to cancel this order as there's no way this game's worth $12.50 with its primary minor tweaks removed. I can get great pizza in Chicago for less than $12.50. I don't want it on a play field. And then he has update. Owns Jersey Jack Pinball Pirates of the Caribbean LE and owns a Jersey Jack Pinball Pirates of the Caribbean PNCE. And then his comment is, all he can say is pizza, pizza. So this goes on and on. And it just shows how everybody kind of goes online and collapses on something. But then ultimately, you know, clearer heads prevail and they end up buying the machine that they originally wanted. And so far, so good as far as I guess satisfying the customer and those guys that hung on, man, and they got those games, man. I mean, like they kind of hit one of the few almost pinball investments that you can have now where the game, it might not retain its value forever. But because of the limited nature of the game, you stand to be able to sell that game and not take a huge loss and potentially profit, depending on what you have and what the market's trending at. OK, but is it just because the game is that great? Is it because the fact that they're limited? Dude, I think that literally because they pulled him off the line when they did, that literally just force-appreciated a game that people were pissed at because they pulled the mechs off, or the concentric ring and the treasure chest. Everyone's entitled to change their mind. I'm not going to be hypocritical on that. I mean, especially when it comes to pinball, this isn't where you're going to live, where you're going to work, what you're going to do for a living stuff. So, I mean, it's not that critical if you change your mind. Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, you can have some fun on a forum and vent. And, you know, when you get disappointing news and you go on pin side, you have a couple of beers and you're just kind of blasting away at the manufacturer. You know, it's fine. That's what a forum is there for. You can kind of vent and talk about your opinions. But it's just interesting to see how everything kind of comes full circle a little bit later down the line. And these guys are like, hey, my CE is done. It's out there if somebody wants it. But then I'm going to buy a CE and an LE. Like, for some reason, I find it awesome. And this happens until they come out with the next Pirates of the Caribbean, you know, LE version of, you know, whatever it's going to be, the Jack Sparrow edition or whatever. You know what, Bill? I don't think Pirates comes back on the line, man. I just really don't. And to be very honest with you I think because there some issues with some of the games I just I think unless they kind of redo it I don know that it worth their time to make more because of some of the servicing issues that they had And I think they kind of service and get everything running that they have right now so that those customers are made whole They move on to the next release and then maybe, you know, maybe they vaulted at some point. But they kind of simplify some things. Yeah, well, I think it matters because it's the hot stuff right now. Dude, what do you mean? Does it matter? Does what matter? Does it matter if there's issues? Dude, I guarantee you, you could take one with the play field situation where it was bubbling or whatever or started to crack and be able to get every dollar you had for it right now because everyone's like, oh, I've got to get this game now. I've got to get this game because now it's limited. Well, guess what? Cactus Jacks is limited. You don't see people running out trying to score a Cactus Jacks, do you? No, but I think it matters, man. I mean, you don't want to create a service nightmare for yourselves. If you know that there's some things that haven't been corrected on a game and you keep manufacturing, I mean, the money's there initially, but I think the customer support and the time that you have to put into getting the games to be played correctly outweighs any money that you potentially might receive. I mean, that's just the way that I would look at it from a business standpoint, unless I'm planning on taking everybody's money and running, and that's not the case with Jersey Jack. No, no, no. It's just my opinion. But if they were to hit the line again, any sort of issues that might have arose, I'm sure by it hitting the line again meant that those were addressed and those won't be a concern moving forward. And that's what I'm saying. The only way it goes back on the line is if they kind of rehash a little bit of that game and simplify it so that it's not a nightmare from a service standpoint. And I don't know where that lies. If it's just a coincidence of an unfortunate series of events that happened with a pinball machine, if it's in the engineering, if it's in the quality control, I mean, who knows? But it is what it is. The game is great. I think the game on its own merit is worth the money that people are asking. Arguably, I've heard people say it's the best pinball machine that's ever been made or ever been created. So, I mean, kudos to Eric on that. And how crazy is that that that game is missing a lot of the assets from the movie that people were pissed about? Dude, everyone loves the game. Yeah, you're right. I mean, it's in there. So how many people get pissed off because certain assets might not be in a game, and they're like, oh, well, they just completely screwed this game up. And it didn't affect this one as much as everyone said it would. Bro, I keep looking across the studio table to kind of get a read on your face, man. You're not there. Believe me, we'll have to Skype or FaceTime when we do this next time because this is definitely weird. It is a little bit weird. Everybody else are probably like, well, it doesn't change a thing on our end. We'll see. It's definitely a different dynamic. We can move on from Jersey Jacks. I'm sure we can talk about Pirates and Wonka for the next two hours if we don't. That's true. All right, so let's go to American Pinball and Oktoberfest. They're shipping. There's not much of an update there. Again, Oktoberfest, if you haven't had an opportunity to play it, play it. It's different. Absolutely. It's got a different level of fun. And if you're looking for something that's not what you're used to as far as a pinball machine, like a layout and a rule set, I absolutely recommend jumping and playing some games. Let's go to our special only correspondents. And we've got Dr. John, who's covering Spooky this week and every week, and Ryan Claytor, who's covering Multimorphic. Welcome to this week's spooky update. News out of the rumour mill is that Eric Priepke, who is Epithageek on Pinside, who is responsible for coding Cactus Canyon Continued, has been taken on to code Scott Danesi's next game. He says it's very different than TNA, and he is looking forward to the reveal of the game in the nearish future. I'd like to also congratulate Zach and Greg from Straight Down The Middle they did an Alice Cooper review and I think the most impressive part was the intro to the episode with the video section introducing the game Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle great production work and great effort guys finally TNA manual is available if you go to Scott Danesi's website which is scottdenise.com the manual is available in a PDF format for download and Morgan at Spooky is currently working on a complete parts list for the manual as well. This is the first time Spooky's done a complete manual like this, so things are progressing well. Catch you all next week. Thanks a lot. All right, so we appreciate Dr. John, our Australian correspondent for Spooky Pinball. He's been coming at it every single week with some interesting tidbits in regards to Spooky. What did you find interesting about everything that he spoke about? Because he brought up two or three, even four interesting points. You know, honestly, the one that I like because of the standpoint that I'm, you know, always kind of digging into games and whatnot, the fact that they're doing the manual for this. Yeah, right. I really love that. You know, it'd be, like I said before, I think every time they do a game, they are definitely trying to up the bar. You know, and when you have these games and something breaks and you can't say, hey, you know, I'm missing, you know, part number 560-whatever, whatever, whatever, that makes it hard to find parts or order parts. So, you know, kudos to them for that. That's the biggest thing that I really like about everything that he said. I never owned a spooky pinball machine, so I guess I was a little taken aback to realize that there's not like a complete manual for the games. I guess it's news. It's good that they have manuals. I'm just a little surprised that that hasn't been the case prior, I suppose. You know, I heard that too, but I thought it was just malarkey, in all honesty. Sorry for the interesting choice of words. Malarkey. Dude, how would you sell a pinball machine without a manual? I mean, how would you order parts? Yeah, I don't know. I assume they've got enough customer support there to kind of walk you through it. But, yeah, to your point, it's nice to have something to reference right away where you're not necessarily having to call spooky. So, hey, they're trending in a positive direction. If adding a manual, which is a pretty important thing, is happening, then that should be happening going forward. So that's good. I also found it interesting that Eric Priepke, who, again, he coded Cactus Canyon Continued, and he's he's colorized several games for color dmd that he's kind of been brought on to help with code for scott denisi's next game so i imagine eric will be uh there and encoding with bow and karen's so the two of them kind of working together on a rule set uh interests me what about you bill it does interest me but the thing is with that is i don't want to build my hopes up on how they might uh change things moving forward i think it is a great combination of uh talent that they have now with both of them. Now, you know, instead of speculating in my head what sort of cool things they could do, I just want to see what the outcome is to having both of them. Yeah, I wonder if they go complicated rule set or if they go something more simplified. It seems to me if you're bringing in additional coders, I mean, Bowen is, as somebody that's a competitive pinball player, somebody who's played a lot of pinball, I would imagine that he's got a lot of ideas that he'd like to implement into a machine for scoring, balancing, and that sort of thing. And Eric, what he did with coding and adding out of the code of Cactus Canyon, he's transformed the enjoyability factor of that game. So I kind of like the two of them working together on something. It should be interesting. And do you think we see Scott's game, his game number two, before the end of the year? I don't know about that. And if we do, where does it get revealed? What show does it go to? because they don't really do Expo as far as having a strong presence there. I think the last few years they've had somebody that's brought in games on their behalf, a distributor. Expo end of the year, could Spooky potentially bring Scott's game there because the Alice Coopers are already spoken for, and could they own Expo close to their hometown? Now, it's not MGC, but it's a short drive. It logistically makes sense. They've got a lot of people that they're friends with, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Chicago, that they could really drive traffic there. Oh, it is definitely the hometown show, without a doubt. I mean, I think you nailed that down. But if they're – I mean, they aren't supposed to – Well, is it the hometown show, though? Or is it MGC would be their hometown show? I would assume MGC is probably – I mean, Wisconsin, right? But I want to see something at Expo this year, man. So do I. So do I. If I could get to Expo. Where's Deep Root? DeepRoot, get some machines at Expo this year. Let's go. But I don't see them doing that because I think there are, what, like 100 machines in on Alice Cooper or 150? I think there are, yeah, 150. But, I mean, those games are all spoken for. So, I mean, they can – Yeah, but there's nothing that's going to be on the line for us. They don't want to release too early. I get it. I get it. I get it. Because now I'm contradicting everything that I say. Announce a game and be able to ship it in 90 days. Don't announce a game at Expo and then ship it at two TPFs from now. That doesn't make sense either. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't see them doing that. I would hope that they don't. I mean, I think probably closer to MGC next year would be a better fit. I mean, I think by then they'd be a lot closer to being complete with the Alice Coopers than if you show the game and ship within 45 to 90 days, then you're probably in a better place. Got to stay relevant, though, man. You can't just drop off the pinball landscape, the pinball map, for like a year while you're making a game. I think you have to keep people engaged. You have to tease. I thought the way they teased Alice Cooper was pretty appropriate because you didn't see the whole game. But you were able to see, you know, snippets of artwork and of the play field and of the sculpts. And it was kind of building interest. I liked how they had done that without showing the whole game. It kept my interest. So we'll see. I mean, who knows? And you know what? Honestly, I mean, let's rewind the clock three, four, five months ago. Dude, people were begging on Alice Cooper. It's not out. It's not this. It's not that. Now they're all spoken for again. And, you know, you don't see them for $200 a spot now. So, you know, it's interesting times in pinball with how some of this stuff is getting talked about and then what winds up happening in the long run. And speaking of interesting, let's go to our newest correspondent, Ryan Claytor. And this is his week's installment for Multimorphic. Hey, Ken and Bill and friends. Ryan Claytor here again for Multimorphic. One of the things I've heard from a number of pinball players as I've visited different shows and arcades around the country is that they just haven't had a chance to play the P3. So one of the things I'd like to periodically highlight is where you can get your hands on a P3 to try one out. And coming up in a couple weeks, you'll have a chance to not only play but also compete on a P3 in downtown Austin, Texas during the Bat City Open at Buffalo Billiards. The Bat City Open is an official Stern Pro Circuit pinball tournament, if that means anything to you. But even if it doesn't, there will be additional P3s on site to play outside of the tournament area. But as I found out, this venue actually has some historical bragging rights connected with the P3's first full-featured game, Lexi Lightspeed, as Multimorphic founder Gerry Stellenberg mentioned to me in conversation. For the last couple of years, Lexi Lightspeed has been a prominent machine in the tournament. It's actually the, it was the first tournament that hosted a Lexi Lightspeed. So there you have it. If you'd like to get your hands on a P3, or actually multiple P3s for that matter, mark your calendars on June 21st through the 23rd, 2019 for the Bat City Open, taking place at Buffalo Billiards on East 6th Street in Austin, Texas. And if you'd like more information on this upcoming opportunity to play the P3, you can visit the Buffalo Billiards website at buffalobilliardsaustin.com. And they've got a link to the Bat City Open in the top left. So thanks, Ryan. Thanks for the update at Multimorphic. I couldn't agree with the more, Bill. I think a lot more people should put themselves in front of a P3 and play it because the first time that I had played it wasn't really digging it as much. and it was years ago when I played it recently, it seemed like it had totally transformed itself, and it was a lot more fun, and I did play Lexi Lightspeed, and I really enjoyed the game, and I think I went on the podcast, and I talked about how surprised I was with the evolution of P3, Multimorphic, as a platform and as a fun game with Lexi. And honestly, hearing you after you played it, dude, you had nothing but great things to say about it. So I think for them, yeah, that definitely is one of the things, is you really got to get it in front of people in order to take roots and have people play it and sell it, you know, sell more of them. So go ahead, jump out there, play it, get in front of Lexi Lightspeed, get in front of P3 Multimorphic, and you know what? Do us a favor, send us your feedback at specialwhenlitspinballpodcasts at gmail.com and let us know what you're thinking about playing Multimorphic for a second go around if you've done so already. You know what? It seems like this game is just one of those that's like ahead of its time, and as time progresses it will definitely be at the current speed of the pinball market. You know, kind of like Revenge from Mars at the time was, you know, kind of ahead of the curve at the time. Or NBA Fastbreak, how you could link games at the time, which no one really did, but, you know, it was one of those things. I think this is really a great platform that I think really could just blow up at some point, you know. Well, I think a lot of what people are looking for as far as pinball evolving is already being implemented with Multimorphic. And I think Ryan is absolutely right. It's a matter of getting people exposed to the game and creating awareness. So I'm glad that they're doing shows. And I hope that Jerry gets creative and he's able to find additional outlets to get the game out there so that people know. Because it's not just the pinball community, right? It's not just the people that are listening to podcasts and the people that go to pinball shows and the people that compete in tournaments. it's the general public that walks into a dealer, so to speak, or goes to a distributor and says, hey, I want the coolest thing that you've got for my game room. I don't care who coded a game. I don't care who laid out a play field. I just want something that's going to be fun and attractive for my guests and for my kids. And I think you have to tap into that market, too. Not just everybody that knows pinball or thinks they know about pinball. You have to expand the horizons and expand the target market. and I don't know if he's doing that already or not, but I hope that there's something in place to kind of create additional awareness versus targeting pinball people, if that makes sense. Oh, yeah. And, dude, aren't those the happiest people, man, that walk into a store and say, I want to see a pinball machine. Oh, well, have you seen Wizard of Oz? No. They play Wizard of Oz and they're like, holy hell, this thing is awesome. Or Munsters, you know, somebody that hasn't seen a pinball machine or doesn't care about release dates. Dude, those are, I think, going to be the happiest people in pinball ever. Oh, man, I couldn't agree. And it's a good segue into our next part of the show here in a second. But I remember even going out and as somebody that played pool casually, I went out and I got my first pool table and I wanted to make sure it was regulation size. And other than that, I just wanted something that was going to be fun for me to play. And I loved it. But then, you know, as I progressed and I was like, well, I want to make sure I have this brand. I want to make sure I have this upgraded Simona's felt and I want to make sure that I had this too. I mean, it's great that you know more. Well, it doesn't suck the fun out of it, but you're not going into it as innocently anymore. And I guess that's a positive and it could be a negative, but you're right, man. That's interesting that you said that because when you go in and you don't know any better, maybe you're getting yourself in just a little bit of trouble making a bad decision, but maybe it's not a bad decision because you just want to have something that's fun and not something that you have to dissect on a target-by-target basis and critique and criticize. And when we talk about critiquing and we talk about criticizing and we talk about championing pinball and we talk about kind of the dark underbelly of pinball, I wanted to transition into what I think and maybe what you think, like social media, Facebook especially, is doing to pinball and those that are in pinball or involved in pinball. And it's I think recently we all know there's been a lot of I mean, for the lack of a better word, complicated and unfortunate circumstances that have arised or risen. And Facebook seems to be like the up to the second headlines on things that are going And for those of you that are not on Facebook you know good for you What I I say Good for you Right I don blame you at this point It just there so much going on And I choosing my words carefully because I don want to come across as somebody that I mean, I'm not better than anybody else and I'm not worse than anybody else. I'm a guy. I'm a pinball enthusiast. But it's like as pinball gains popularity and as we see this resurgence and I just want to talk about Facebook for a minute, Facebook seems to be something that can bring pinball even higher, but it can also bring pinball to a low. And it's unfortunate to kind of see that. And you see individuals that are, you know, it's great to have a platform to be able to get some stuff out there. And that's great. I can appreciate that too. But it's like, man, it's pretty exhausting. And I think where I'm at right now is like, I've got so many people that are involved in pinball in my Facebook feed. Like, so when I look at my, my updates on Facebook, it's like 95% pinball updates and I'm fine with that. I mean, that's, I enjoy pinball. I enjoy the friends that I've made in pinballs, most of whom I've not met, but we've corresponded or we have something in common. But then it, it also can get pretty nasty, man. And you can kind of see fallout and you can see people's lives being drastically affected. and it's worrisome for me because I hope that, I mean, in a perfect world, social media is going to be utilized in a way just for good. But, I mean, it can just as well be used for bad. And it's scary to me a little bit when I think about pinball. I see my neighbors go nuts on our local Facebook, what's going on in St. Charles page. You think the zombie apocalypse is coming, man. You would have thought they were Tom Mayer with how passionate they were, Oh, man. But you like you see sides of people and it's not like you're on a discussion forum group like Pinside where you're going to go ahead and you're going to hyper post a bunch of craziness and nobody's going to really know who you are if you want some, you know, to be anonymous. Whereas Facebook, you can still be anonymous on Facebook to a certain extent. But I mean, it's pretty easy to put a name with a face and a personality on people that continue to post and post and post. It fascinates me. And it and again, it's it's exciting and it's discouraging. It's all these feelings I have when it pertains to Facebook and pinball. But all this is, though, is just what you take out of it. Honestly, a lot of the groups and whatnot that you see on Facebook, like pinball enthusiasts or people asking for help, you jump in 10 minutes after the post happened and there's six comments of what went wrong, and those people are helping said person with a problem. I love seeing those types of things. even situations that aren't pretty and glamorous of uh you know situations that happened recently it shows um just to see light shed upon that so people are informed of what might have transpired doesn't mean that people need to get involved and be negative and you know trash talk and all this stuff i mean but to a certain extent i i can understand that i'm even probably guilty of uh poking fun at certain things um but right the wall of shame wall of shame and you know what honestly But that's a good fun. It's not like we're starting this witch hunt. I have no desire to ruin somebody over something like that. It is unjust and good fun. And honestly, if you ever got contacted by something that we said that truly bothered somebody, if they had a legitimate reason for being upset by it, obviously we would take it down or apologize or whatever the situation might have dictate for us to make it right. But, you know, when you see these people just harping on the same old negative crap, you know, those are the ones that I don't even acknowledge because I don't want to be a part of that. No, I mean, Bill, you're right. It makes a lot of sense. I mean, you go from the, you know, the innocence of something and then you the more and more you kind of know, the more and more potentially you can be let down. And it's like it's almost like the old saying where it's like you never really want to get to know your heroes because you might not like what you see. And, you know, and there's strong personalities, there's strong people in pinball, there's strong personalities kind of everywhere. When we think about personalities, I was going to mention like Christopher Franchi. If you think about Chris, renowned pinball artist, renowned artist in general gets hired on at Stern and he bangs out some some awesome pinball machines. And then, you know, lately you kind of see some some complicated situations with him and his direction on where he wants his art to go. And then you've got people that see one side of a story and you've got people that see another side of a story. I don't know which one is right. I don't know which one is wrong. Art is subjective and it's open to interpretation. Chris has kind of spoke his mind on where he wanted the direction of the Pintastic artwork to go. And there are those that find that there's a partially demeaning value to the artwork. And when I reached out to Chris recently because I noticed that he had dropped all of his friends from – or most all of his pinball Facebook friends had just kind of disappeared off his friends list. And again, we're back into Facebook. And I reached out to Chris today and I said, hey, man, we're going to be probably discussing a little bit of like Facebook and its impact on pinball and its people on pinball. Did you want to comment a little bit maybe on why you decided to kind of really just prune your entire pinball friends list off of Facebook? And he got back to me and he said, you know what? If you'd like, I can issue a public statement and you can read it on my behalf. So after kind of going back and forth with him a little bit, he sent me an email. And if you want, if you're good with it, I'll just read it here on the air or on the podcast. I definitely would love to hear that. OK, so this is what Chris says. He says, after three years in this industry of pinball, I've made the decision to exit the spotlight, so to speak, and walk away from my podcast and other podcast interviews, pin side, pinball expo appearances, and social media. I feel the negative element of pinball has taken root and grown over time into an unfriendly atmosphere for the most part. He goes on to say, while I've made many great friendships that will continue to cherish, I no longer wish to be the people's connection to the behind the scenes of the pinball industry. It was not easy to speak my mind, share some information and unique images and the gateway to the hobby. Many times a great risk to my career. I personally felt there was a wall between manufacturer and player. And I wanted to reach out and break down some of that barrier and share with the community for as much as I could anyway. After almost losing my job, being told my podcast was negatively affecting the show that it aired in and being the subject of one too many controversial pin site threads, irresponsible social media commentary and speculation and personal witch hunts i decided it's best for me to focus on my work and work relationships and step out of the public eye and the magnifying glass held up to that eye i'll continue to create pinball art to the best of my ability and i hope that you all enjoy it i also hope one day the cancer that seems to be permeating the community will stop spreading heal and the pinball community can get back to basics playing pinball and having fun. My final public appearance will be at Pintastic at the end of June. I deeply appreciate the support of those who have reached out and expressed their positive vibes and good spirit over my work, which I continue to work on very hard. Those of you who are only here for the good time, I hope you continue that feeling like a child on Christmas morning every time a new game comes out or when you stumble upon a game in a random bar or laundromat. It's supposed to be fun. Thank you all, and watch that left train on Guardians. It's a bitch. Regards, Christopher Franchi. So that was Chris's kind of public statement in regards to some of the fallout and things that have happened recently over social media and Facebook with some of his artwork and some other things. Any thoughts on that, Bill? Because, I mean, interestingly enough, a lot of it is kind of directly what we're discussing. You know, somebody that's impactful in pinball and is celebrated, and then something doesn't go the right way for the guy, and now he's looking at stepping away from interacting with people in pinball. And, again, I'm not saying that Chris is right. I'm not saying Chris is wrong. I'm trying to do both sides here and to kind of look at it both ways. I'm not on one side or I'm not on the other. If anything I've learned right now from podcasting, it's trying to remain objective and not formulate too strong opinions. That being said, it doesn't mean I'm not going to share an opinion if I feel strongly about it. So what do you think? You know what? I really feel for him. I mean, I think he took a lot of this on the chin. So I do feel bad for that. I think that if that's what he feels he needs to do is just step away and gather his thoughts and composure and still wants to do pinball art, that's great. I mean, he definitely contributed a lot of great things to a lot of great machines. It was a little off-putting to see that, you know, some of us that were friends on Facebook weren't friends, but I'm sure, you know, if we see Chris, you know, he'll give us the jabs that he did in person as he did before, so I'm not too concerned with that either. But, you know, I mean, I think long and short, he needs to do what's right for him at this current point in time. so nothing but support and hope everything that he is hoping for the clarity of moving forward with comes to fruition for him and you know what I mean there are a lot of people negative people in this hobby and you know the more people that get into this hobby the more you're going to attract strong personalities into this hobby you know it makes you wonder you know is it about you know chasing the silver ball you know I mean everyone has their own ideas as to what they love about pinball. I know for us it's about getting together and having a great time with a bunch of friends, which half the time we don't play pinball. For some people it's all about exploiting scoring strategies and playing competitive pinball. For some of us, dude, it's restoring a game and having that sense of pride. For others, it's buying a game at a certain price and making some money and selling it. Everyone has their own things that keep them into this hobby. And, you know, it's just the select few that can kind of take things awry and pull the good out of, or, you know, take the good out of some of this by their negative energy. And I think you and I both can poke fun at certain things or even certain situations. But like I said before, we try and do it in gist and, you know, slapstick, you know, just poking fun at stuff and not, you know, detrimental to the person. There's a difference between poking fun at a situation and poking fun at the person's expense. And, you know, I think when it crosses that line, that's where things kind of get ugly. And also, you know, I mean, one thing, too, that's pretty prevalent that I'm not necessarily a big fan of is the strong use of coarse language in some of the stuff that transpires. and you know when you have a disagreement with somebody i think one of the fastest way for it to turn ugly is just to stop um being clear and everything that you're trying to say and start um using a lot more expletives and pound sign or you know exclamation points this that and the other and it really detracts from the statement that you're trying to make or the point that you're trying to get across that's society today though right i mean so i mean not to get like all like political issues and whatnot, but I mean, it's, it's like, okay, so I would prefer somebody kind of speak to me with some respect and some professionalism. And, but then there are those that'd be like, well, you know what, if, if my language is going to get colorful, that's the way that I express myself. And then you just have to deal with it. There's so many strong opinions coming from so many different sides that when, when these things converge, it's just, there's no give right so it's you're just crushing this core that eventually explodes and and you can only you know smush something so far before you know it wants to expand uh after it's been contracted and i i think that's where um a lot of this kind of stems from and in all honesty with chris like so the pentastic artwork and for those of you who don't know chris uh had done an illustration that he thought um was absolutely appropriate for an idea that he had in regards to uh some artwork for the Pintastic show, and where it was well-received by many. There was a vocal audience that didn't find it was supportive of the women's movement, not only in pinball, but just in general. And there was a lot of debate back and forth. And I think where some of the problem arises is that because there are so many strong personalities, Chris being one of them, it's hard to have a discussion about it. It's somebody forcefully willing their opinion on somebody else who then wants to forcefully, you know, in a defense maybe, goes beyond a defense and then goes on an attack, and then it's just kind of back and forth, and it just becomes a mess. I can only imagine, like, right now, Chris is, again, I'm just guessing, he's probably just spent with everything that's happened. And to his fault or not, to somebody else's fault or not, I think the situation for him just kind of purging that friends list is just like, you know, he probably doesn't need to. Dude, it was a mental health reset more than likely, man. If that's what he needed to do, that's what he needed to do, man. You know, nothing but love and hope, nothing but the best for him. So, you know, I mean, sometimes people just have to walk away and get a fresh perspective on things before they can continue. So, you know. It's a volatile situation, man. And the other thing like I'm noticing is like you've got to be very careful on what you say, because depending on what you say, you know, you you can really do some harm to your reputation or you can you it's very you can't even really misspeak without somebody kind of taking something and labeling you or pulling it out of context and that sort of thing. So luckily enough for me, I mean, honestly, I think we're both the same way where we're careful in what we say. It's not because we are trying to hide a belief that we have. It's just because we're trying to be professional and courteous to everybody that we're addressing. And so there is a little bit of calculation. I don't feel that I'm just going to express my mind freely whenever I feel fit and then just hope that everybody understands where I'm coming from. It doesn't make sense. In fact, a few times where I kind of went off on this show, I had a bunch of people that had contacted me saying that I needed to relax and quit my whining. And then I got people that say, well, why don't you just speak how you really feel? So even that situation, I can't speak freely without somebody thinks that I'm whining and I can't be articulated and respectful without people saying that I'm too reserved. So you can't make everybody happy all the time. You can only make yourself happy. And I am not afraid of offending somebody because I'm not an offensive person by nature. So if I do say something that offends somebody in pinball, it wasn't intentional and I can have a conversation and I can apologize and I can try to come to a common agreement and kind of let somebody know where I was coming from. This is pinball, dude. I'm not working – I'm not running the White House. I'm not trying to be the president of the United States. We host a pinball podcast and that's it. So if something is said and it's taken out of context or we disappoint somebody, yeah, I guess that sucks. But guess what, man? I'm not going to lose any sleep. And, you know, I just not because we're not offensive people by nature. It's not something I worry about. Does that make sense? Yeah, but you know what? Oh, no, it totally does. I mean, you and I don't share the same opinion on everything. And you and I can respectfully disagree on things and be respectful of the other person's opinion. And, I mean, there's been a couple of times on this show where people have taken what I've said out of context, what I like to call a word mechanic, and twist it to suit their needs of how to bash something that I've said. I mean, it hasn't happened often, you know, thankfully, because honestly, I probably would take that a little bit more to heart. But, you know, there are those people that will twist your words to make it seem as if you said something that you really might not have meant that way. Right. Just for sheer entertainment value. And you know what? I mean, that's going to be what it's going to be. I'm pretty sure that most of the listeners that we have understand what our general consensus of why we do this is. so we really don't get a lot of that blowback or that happening but it's happened a couple of times It has on a few occasions and if anything it interesting because I like to see what somebody perspective is on something But again you know what I wanted to get that statement out because I wasn expecting Chris to want to you know make a public statement I was simply asking if he had a comment on why he ditched everybody on Facebook. And that was his statement. So I kind of understand there wasn't follow-up back and forth. It was not an interview. It was messages back and forth over the course of a few minutes. And then he emailed that statement. So I have not spoken to Chris since, and I'm going to respect his right to some privacy and stepping away and have him concentrate on work and just getting himself back in order, probably professionally and mentally just being able to kind of chill out. And hopefully some of this sorts itself out so that he's comfortable getting back to pinball shows at some point. But for now, he's going to be on a little bit of a hiatus. Hey, you know what? Nothing but love for the man. and hopefully he gets the clarity that he wants and everything moves forward smoothly and we see Chris back in pinball. Are you ready to play a little Drain It or Save It? Absolutely. Let's lighten this mood. It's time for this week's edition of Drain It or Save It. Drain It or Save It is brought to you by Lermods.com, offering you custom quality pinball mods and lighting for your pinball machine. L-E-R-M-O-D-S visit Lermods.com today. First item up for Drain It or Save It, playing pinball outdoors, Bill. We've got a little story to share with that later, but what do you think about playing pinball outdoors outside of the home or the location play? Out in the elements. I liked it. I'm going to save that. Yeah, I'm going to save it too. We had a stream on Friday that we did and we can touch on that briefly before we end the episode and it was fun. We played outside under my gazebo on a Friday night and the Carl Weathers was perfect and it was a super fun time. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up and going out into your backyard if you can. The second item on Drain It or Save It this week, the action button on a lockdown bar. Drain it or save it. I am not as big a fan of that, so I'm going to have to drain that. I almost think it detracts from the gameplay. You know, I mean, there's certain games that I think it is laid out well, but for the most part because it's right in the center and it it doesn't call to me as much and i don't really have any games with it you know it's not a personal favorite button of mine so i will drain that i'm gonna save the action button on the lockdown bar i i would hope that man you're fat because i mean listen i do have fun like during tie fighter trying trying to hit the tie fighters on star wars as much as you can to get into tie fighter multiball i think that's fun um i think it's fun depending on the game and how it's utilized it's a good time i'm noticing on black knight sort of rage, it's a very difficult spot for that MagnaSafe for you to kind of go off the flipper and try to hit that center button for a MagnaSafe is hard. So that's why I would suggest that a manufacturer consider this. If you're going to have action button or buttons on the lockdown bar, maybe move them closer to where the player's hands are so that they can simply reach over and hit them with their thumbs. I know maybe it's not as intended where the risk versus reward of taking your hand off the flipper button to bang on that action button is something that is probably considered when you're coding a game or in a rule set. But I think it can be just as fun to have something that's up towards the thumbs on the lockdown bar on the left or on the right side or even both sides. So for that potential possibility and for the enjoyment it's given me on certain games and certain moments, I'm going to save the lockdown bar action button. The last one, though. Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. You know what? Honestly, I think one of these days when I get a game with that button in the center lockdown bar, my opinion might change. But right now I don't have that, so it's foreign to me. It'd be like learning to drive a manual car when you've only driven automatic. You know, you might not like it as much. Well, you're going to be coming over here tonight to play Black Knight Sword Rage LE, and you will see that it can be an interesting, frustrating experience trying to hit it. When the magna save, like I'm almost predicting my magna saves. Like I'm like, that ball's going to the right side where it might even go to an out lane. I'm just going to nail that magna save just for the sake of saying that I caught a ball. So that's kind of where I'm going. Finally, with Drain It or Save It, Facebook. And it's promotion for pinball. Drain it or save it, Bill? I'm going to save it because there's still a lot of good that comes out of it. And it's refreshing to see good posts of people saying, hey, I need a picture of this part or this game. Or I'm having this issue. And you see, you know, 10, 20 people jump in there, chime in with their experiences and what to look for. And, you know, two or three posts later, thanks, I got it. That was it. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So for that part, I'm going to save it. I'm going to save it too, man. And when I talked about people popping up in my Facebook feed, 95% of it being pinball, 93 of the 95% that's popping into my feed is positive stuff. So it's happy. It makes me happy to kind of be able to at any point jump on Facebook and see what's going on in pinball. So, you know, for that aspect, I think it's a necessary evil because it has potential to do more good than harm. And I hope that at some point everybody kind of learns to take Facebook for what it's worth. Let's do a quick recap here on Drain It or Save It brought to you by LearnMods.com. Playing Pinball Outdoors, myself and Bill, we saved it. The action button on a lockdown bar, Bill drained it, I saved it. And then finally, Facebook, for the promotion of pinball, we both saved it. Nice, nice. All right, so we're going to wrap up the show here. Real quick, I wanted to do a couple quick notes, Bill, and that was that Friday night, Friday was an adventure for us. We had Ryan Kuyper, who's TurboGrafx7 on Twitch. He's a pinball streamer. We had Jason Fowler from the Slap Save Pinball Podcast, and we had Zach Many from Flip N Out Pinball, the owner, and he's also from Straight Down the Middle, a pinball show. So all these guys came out. And this week in pinball podcast. Zach, where is he not from? Zach's from everywhere. But the day started early. So Ryan and Jason met me in St. Charles. We drove over to your house on the other side of St. Charles, and we all went to Stern Pinball. So it was the four of us, and Dwight Sullivan kind of took us all through the factory. Now, we've been on the Dwight Sullivan tour several times, so now we're recruiting people to go on the Dwight Sullivan tour because Dwight gives a very thorough and fun tour at Stern, and he takes you through every aspect. We've been there after hours for tours. We've been there during hours, during lunch breaks, and it seemed to me that Ryan and Jason had a really great time going through. So thank you, Dwight, for taking us through there. We got a nice little lunch afterwards. We drove back to St. Charles. We went back to your house, and at this point, now Zach is in the area, but he's taking care of some business with his distributorship at Flippin' Up Pinball. And then people got to jump on Bill's Whirlwind for the first time, Bill. Yes, they did. So far, it seemed like positive reviews from it, so good things. I'm glad it got played. Yeah, man, it was a good time. It was the first time I saw Whirlwind in its finality. I know you're just looking to replace that wire form that should be there, but, I mean, you had another wire form on there. The game's beautiful, man. It was – I was joking with Ryan and Jason. I'm like, this is like a remake, like something you'd see at a CGC where it's like you're looking at it and you just can't even really believe it's real because you just don't see the game in that condition. So it was awesome to see, man. I am very excited for you that you have it. And at this point, do you think you keep the game? Are you proud of it where you just can't leave? We can go on to that in Bill's Corner, but we need to finish up Friday first. Okay, so Friday, at that point, everybody leaves your house. They come over to my place. We've got Black Knight Sword of Rage underneath the gazebo. We're streaming live on Twitch. The Twitch stream was a lot of effort to get running and a lot of effort for tearing down, but it was fun to stream pinball outside. I think we had five mics going, and then at one point, we were taking phone calls, live calls into the chat line, and we were giving away prizes. That was the best, man. Yeah, Lord Helmet ends up winning the Black Knight Sword of Rage Translight, which was cool, and a lit frame from Brad at Lit Frames. So it was a fun night, man. It was a lot of work. I was spent at the end of that night, man. It was great having Jason come up because he's been up a couple times from St. Louis from Slap Safe. First time we ever really met Ryan Kuyper. I mean, we've exchanged messages with Ryan. In fact, Ryan helped answer a lot of questions for me when I was initially trying to set up streaming. Same thing with Jack Danger. Those two guys really helped out. And Dennis Creasel answered a lot of questions, so I wasn't afraid to reach out to some of our colleagues. But it was nice to be able to have him out and just kind of play some pinball with him and get to know him. Very, very nice guy Ryan is. Oh, yeah, dude. It seemed like we had everybody in chat that night, which was great. So what a great night that was, man. Overall, that was just an awesome, awesome time. Now, that being said, when the night was over, because I think at one point I was getting ready to get into bed. It was like 2.30. And, man, I was just kind of happy the day was over, man. It was a long, long, long day. So I don't know if I'm motivated to set up an outdoor stream with a stern tour and, you know, multiple stops. But it was fun to have it under our belt, and I'm glad that we did it. Oh, absolutely, man. We are going to do it again, whether you like it or not. I'm sorry to force that on you. I will help you a little more, but we will make different concessions to make sure it's a smoother transition to get that going. Well, let's transition to Bill's Corner. What's going on with the Whirlwind? Because I was just talking about it, and you're kind of teasing that you've got information on if you're going to sell it or if you're going to keep it in Bill's Corner. So here we are. We're in the corner where Bill is at in the Whirlwind. What's the story? What are we doing with this? Are we keeping it? Are we going to be streaming it for weeks and months? Or is it going to be a museum piece? Is it going to go out with a cash sale? Is it going to be traded for something that you're looking for? Do you know what's going to happen with Whirlwind? Yeah, I kind of do. So, honestly, earlier today I was adding up how much time and money I have into this. And, honestly, there's other games that I would rather have. So I know that this will be for sale. Oh, you heard it here first on the special one. Well, you heard everything first about this whirlwind. On the special one, Lit Pinball Podcast. It's only suiting that we know that it's for sale on special one lit. Yeah, and you know what? Honestly, I want to send a shout out to these people that have these high-end restoration medieval madnesses, Manus' Twilight Zones, Elvira's, you know, the one that you had, for having such a high-dollar game because, you know, adding up the parts list of just parts into this game, parts and materials that I have into this, you know, it would blow your mind of how much money I have into this. I know I told you earlier, and even that number had to be adjusted again because there were a couple items left off that list. so in all honesty I'm not as comfortable keeping that kind of whirlwind I don't blame you man I don't blame you at all I know where you're at I understand yeah so I think at this point it's going to be for sale we spoke to one of our friends that was maybe curious into looking into it so we'll see what happens I have one of my kids that are costing a lot I'm not sure I'm comfortable having that much money tied up into them either so might be letting one of them go Hey, you know what, dude? We are going to do something here for people that have made it this far into the podcast, all right? And I'll pay for this out of my portion of this, okay? I was just going to say, we're so over, man. We're so over, and we're skipping stuff out. We could have gone two, two and a half hours today. So out of respect for everybody's listening habits, we'll try to end this here in a few minutes. So go ahead. Hey, for anyone that's a listener and they can get within, I don't know, $29 of how much this machine cost me, With the machine and with what the total final bill was for me to build this machine, anyone within $29, the price of a T-shirt, right? You get one guess. Anyone that has that, we will give you a T-shirt if anyone can get within $29 plus or minus of what this cost is. Wow. So if anybody gets within $29 of your total cost on Whirlwind, they're going to win the pinball machine. They will take home the Whirlwind. No, they will take home a special one lit t-shirt. So they're going to win your pinball machine? You're just going to give it to them? So maybe I'm not being clear. Anyone that guesses how much. I'm trying to make this a more interesting contest. I'm not giving away this said machine, dude. I have too much time. Listen, if I won the $400 million lottery, that might be a different scenario. But I don't. And honestly, there's other games that I'd rather have. So I think, honestly, if this sells and I get what I have into it, I think I'm going to go after a Wonka LE at this point. I don't blame you there either, man. Can't go wrong with a little Wonka LE action. I enjoy it. I've played it. It's a good game. So, yeah, I think that's about it for our day, right? Yeah, yeah. So let's do this in closing, if you don't mind. I wanted to give some congratulations, one, to Jeff Teolis at Pinball Profile and Albert Elgar from Pinball Nerds Podcast. They both hit 200 episodes recently, and I wanted to congratulate those guys. That's a pretty big achievement, regardless of how often you're podcasting. You do that 200 times, you hit that upload button, and you edit 200 times. It's a pretty big deal. I also wanted to say thanks to Albert, who he recently had rated what he thought were his favorite podcasts that have popped up within the last year. And our one-year anniversary is coming up the first week of July. So we've got a really special show in store for everybody. And, of course, we've got crazy prizes that we're going to be giving away. We've got a little twist to that. So we'll get into that a little bit more next week. But Albert had given us the outstanding – and, again, I feel very humbled by this. But he said that we are his favorite podcast within the last year. And he also says that he thinks that we might be currently his favorite pinball podcast. So, Albert, thank you, buddy. Thank you. I love it, man. See, now this is the thing. Like we love podcasting and we hear that stuff from our buddies and we appreciate it. But like, you know, Albert, he's a colleague. He's a podcaster. And, you know, Jason from Slap Save a couple of weeks ago had similar sentiments. I'm not boasting or bragging. I'm just humbled. I love the fact that people that are also podcasters are appreciating what we're doing as much as we're appreciating what they're doing. So I did want to say, you know, thank you. So if you get a chance, listen to the Pinball Nerds podcast. We've been talking on and off with Albert for a long time. And it's always fun when he checks in, man. And also check him out on – he's streaming on Twitch too, Pinball Nerds, which is pretty awesome. So coming up within the next week or two, we're going to be bringing in Chuck Ernst. He's the computer graphics art director over at Stern Pinball. We're going to talk about Stern Pinball, but we're going to talk about his career coming up from the video game industry and where he's settled in at right now currently at Stern. And all those animations that you're seeing on these games, that's going to be Chuck's department. He's got a team of hellions under him that are taking care of business over there at Stern Pinball, so I'm excited about that. And I also wanted to thank Dr. John and Ryan Claytor, our correspondents for Special When Lit, for their segments this week. And finally, Robin Kim at Lermods.com. Thank you guys for sponsoring the Drain It or Save It segment. For those of you that have a Black Knight Sword of Rage Pro, go to Lermods when you get a chance today. L-E-R-M-O-D-S. go to the search engine, type in Lure Mods, and then type in Black Knight Sword of Rage, and check out the cool mod that they have for the pro. In my opinion, one of the coolest mods available for the game. And if you want to snag one, you can, but let us help you out with that. We've got a coupon code set up. It's SWL10, special when lit 10. For 10% off your order at checkout, go check them out. Good mods, good people. Yeah, great people. you're buying from rob and kim that is you know they are just the awesome awesome awesome people so definitely support them and their products so next week will you will uh again be back to business here we're going to try to shorten up the podcast for you next week sorry for going a little bit over for those of you that appreciate that one hour format we did our best but you know what it's it's fun to just get in and talk pinball in general and i was happy to knock that out today and we will give you more information about our one year show coming up uh in the next few weeks but next week we'll talk about that. For Bill Webb, I am Ken Cromwell. Everybody have a good morning, good afternoon, good evening. And don't forget to take some time out of your day and play some pinball. So long, everybody.