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BDYETP 80: JJP Tease, Stern Vaults, P3 Avalanche, Comings and Goings + the most 80s pins

Bro, Do you Even Talk Pinball·podcast_episode·1h 13m·analyzed·Oct 7, 2023
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.033

TL;DR

JJP teases Elton John game; Stern vaults Jurassic Park LE; P3 add-on games ship.

Summary

Buffalo Pinball hosts episode 80 covering Jersey Jack's Elton John pinball announcement (coinciding with Pinball Expo), Stern's Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary LE re-release and vault strategy, community backlash over LE rereleases, and Multimorphic's P3 ecosystem expansion with new modules (Final Resistance, Dungeon Door Defender, Drained: Bite Size).

Key Claims

  • Jersey Jack announced a new game on October 19th coinciding with Pinball Expo, heavily speculated to be Elton John/Rocket Man themed, designed by Steve Ritchie

    high confidence · Official JJP announcement with 'Countdown to Launch' post and 'Rocket Man' tag hints; informed speculation by hosts

  • This is Steve Ritchie's first pinball machine with Jersey Jack Pinball

    high confidence · Kevin and Nick discuss implications of Ritchie's JJP debut

  • Stern released Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary LE at $13,000 MSRP, compared to original LE MSRP of $9,000

    high confidence · Explicit pricing mentioned in podcast with Johnny Crapple new art package

  • Stern added new 30th Anniversary Quest Mode code update for existing Jurassic Park owners

    high confidence · Described in rundown; 500 more units produced

  • JJP launched accessories line for Godfather including motorized topper, leg covers, shooter rod, art blades for $1,500 total

    high confidence · Detailed pricing breakdown provided ($1,000 topper, $500 accessories, $150 art plates, $130 shooter rod)

  • Jersey Jack achieved goal of two games in a calendar year (Godfather and Elton John)

    medium confidence · Nick notes they've been talking about this goal for years; pandemic delays previously prevented this

  • Galactic Tank Force sold 37 LE + 25 DE reported on Pinside (62 total units)

    medium confidence · Self-reported Pinside data; hosts note this is higher than expected for niche game; acknowledged as not exhaustive

  • Only 2 Punny Factory units sold according to Pinside reporting

    low confidence · Self-reported Pinside data; hosts use as humor/example of poor sales

Notable Quotes

  • “Why would Stern re-release a game again? It kind of torques me up when I buy a pinball machine... now it's no longer rare or uncommon to own one i feel it's a big money grab for stern”

    Pinside user (quoted by Nick) @ mid-episode during Stern vault discussion — Represents collector sentiment about secondary market value erosion from re-releases; Nick's rant criticizes entitlement and misunderstanding of business fundamentals

  • “I'm kind of cautiously optimistic about this, and I would consider buying it, whereas when it was originally announced, it wasn't even on my radar of ever owning an Elton John game”

    Kevin Manning @ early episode, JJP announcement section — Shows how Godfather's improved flippers changed perception of JJP music pin quality; indicates cautious optimism about Elton John game quality

  • “I have it on good authority. Exclusive inside source. I won't reveal my source, but somebody inside Jersey Jack Pinball says it has stuff and also things in it.”

    Nick Lane @ JJP teaser section — Humorous teasing about lack of official details on Elton John game; insider joke about vague information

  • “Money, dummy. They're a fucking business. Their goal, their only goal if you have a goal as a business other than make money, get the fuck out of here.”

    Nick Lane @ Stern vault discussion — Direct response to Pinside complaint about re-releases; articulates business fundamentals defense of Stern's vault strategy

  • “They should put you in the fucking Pinside penalty box for like three months for writing something that fucking dumb.”

    Nick Lane @ Stern vault rant — Expresses frustration with entitled collector mindset; highlights perceived naïveté of complaint

  • “I'm going to buy the games that you enjoy. And then if the price goes up on them, that's fine. That's nice. If you end up selling it, you'll make a little money. If not, you've had a game that you liked playing the whole time.”

    Kevin Manning @ Stern vault discussion — Philosophy on game ownership vs. investment mindset; advocates for gameplay value over collectibility

Entities

Jersey Jack PinballcompanyStern PinballcompanyMultimorphiccompanyKevin ManningpersonNick LanepersonSteve RitchiepersonMichael OceanpersonNick Baldridge

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Jersey Jack achieving strategic goal of two games in single calendar year (Godfather + Elton John) after multi-year effort to increase production velocity

    high · Nick notes 'they've talked about this for a few years' and 'pandemic threw a wrench in the works'; relocated facility enabling production scaling

  • ?

    community_signal: Multimorphic streaming developer interviews (Michael Ocean on Final Resistance) and behind-scenes content indicating community-facing development transparency

    medium · Michael Ocean appeared on podcast stream discussing backstory, rules, hints/tips; archived on YouTube for community viewing

  • ~

    sentiment_shift: Collector backlash against Stern re-releases targeting 'rarity and pride of ownership'; perception that vault strategy undermines collectibility value proposition

    high · 262 downvotes on Pinside post complaining about Stranger Things re-release; 6-year account suggesting established community member frustration

  • $

    market_signal: Self-reported Pinside sales data shows Galactic Tank Force (Spooky) with 62 total units (37 LE + 25 DE), suggesting niche/specialty games struggle with baseline sales volume

    medium · Hosts reference Pinside 'Collections' data; acknowledge self-reported limitation; compare to Godfather and other higher-selling titles

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Steve Ritchie designing first game for Jersey Jack Pinball after Stern tenure; hosts speculate larger budget and creative freedom will enable design ambitions

    high · Kevin states 'he should have a larger budget to work with and get to do the things that he wants'; perception that Stern had constrained him relative to JJP resources

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.221

0:00
Coming up on this episode of Bro, Do You Even Talk Pinball, JJP announces a new game, we'll talk about that, but most importantly, we've got the most 80s pinball machines ever, all that and more, coming right up. Double Super Jet Pod!
0:30
I want targets I can hit. I need the scoop. I need a double super chatbot in my life. That's right. And now, the Hall and Oates of Pinball Podcasting, Nick Lane and Kevin Manning of Buffalo Pinball. Whoop-boom-shakalaka. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to episode 80 of Bro, Do You Even Talk Pinball? I'm Kevin Manning. That's Nick Lane. What's going on, Nick? Oh, shh. Hold on. I gotta boost my seat or something.
1:10
Nick's sitting too low again. Kevin's too high. See, you checked everything but that. Fine. I'm good with it. Another episode. It took us... We didn't do this all in one year. It took us like eight years to get to 80 episodes, but here we are.
1:25
Some people cranked out like 70 episodes in one year. God knows what. I'm tempted to listen to it, but also I know exactly what's there, which is probably nothing.
1:35
That's why we're not one of the top pinball podcasts of 2023. We didn't do 80 this year. Well, by listeners, we are probably top three, but Kevin and I are always salty about something.
1:47
person
Pinball Expoevent
Elton John pinballgame
Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary LEgame
Godfather pinballgame
Final Resistancegame
Dungeon Door Defendergame
Drained: Bite Sizegame
Galactic Tank Forcegame
Punny Factorygame
Stranger Things pinballgame
Patrickperson
Penn Stadiumcompany
  • $

    market_signal: LE pricing inflation: Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary LE at $13,000 MSRP compared to original LE at $9,000 represents significant $4,000 increase over few years

    high · Explicit pricing comparison provided; hosts note 'What a jump in a couple years'; reflects broader market trend of tier inflation

  • ?

    announcement: Jersey Jack Pinball announced Elton John pinball game (Rocket Man themed) designed by Steve Ritchie, official reveal October 19th at Pinball Expo

    high · Official JJP 'Countdown to Launch' post with October 19th date and 'Rocket Man' tag; speculation confirmed by community knowledge of Ritchie's involvement

  • ?

    product_strategy: Stern released new 30th Anniversary Quest Mode code update for existing Jurassic Park owners, adding dinosaur DNA strand collection and badge system

    high · Listed as feature of 30th Anniversary LE release; demonstrates commitment to code updates post-launch

  • ?

    business_signal: Stern applying 'vault strategy' to re-release high-demand games (Stranger Things, Jurassic Park) at premium LE pricing to capitalize on secondary market scarcity

    high · Multiple examples: Stranger Things re-release created collector backlash; Jurassic Park 30th Anniversary LE at $13k (up from $9k original); Stern acknowledged strategy of vaulting/re-releasing games

  • ?

    technology_signal: Multimorphic P3 ecosystem expanding rapidly with modular add-on games from multiple developers (Scott Denise, Michael Ocean, Nick Baldridge) indicating platform maturation

    high · Three new P3 add-ons discussed: Final Resistance, Dungeon Door Defender ($200), Drained: Bite Size; Michael Ocean as prolific programmer releasing multiple games

    • Super, super, super salt. Welcome back. Is that one of our emojis in the chat? The salt shaker? Well, I think there's a salt, just general Twitch emoji. So you can dump your salt in the chat if you're feeling salty this morning. Listen, I'm excited. I can't remember the last time we did a podcast.
    2:04
    I feel like in the summer, appropriately so, pinball slows down a little bit. I'm not super into the pinball mood, but when it gets colder, darker, leagues start coming up, the game's announced, I feel like we're back into pinball season in my mind. Pinball season's like September through maybe May. September's a little early, May's a little late, And then you get that kind of sweet spot months of maybe like November through March. And, uh, that's kind of go time. Yeah. That's we, we have enough months to hibernate in Buffalo. You gotta, you gotta get out, get a experience the world a little bit. Plus, you know, we've had, you and I, we've had, well, let's make some excuses why we haven't podcasted. Let's, uh, you know, you and I, our jobs have changed pretty dramatically in the past year or so. So new responsibilities, things change, you know, we're still here. We're still doing it.
    2:57
    That's right. All right. And also, I'll be honest, there's not a lot of news. And I was looking over the rundown. We've got some like, yeah, we'll catch everybody up on the news and stuff. But I think the biggest news thing to me that's happened is just Jersey Jacks saying that they're going to put out another game, which they announced yesterday. I'm jumping the gun a little bit about stuff. But anyways, we'll have some fun this episode. When the news cycle is low, it gives us a chance to get a little more creative and not just read the news. So we're going to have what Kevin and I believe are the most 80s pinball machines of all time. We're going to go over that later in this episode after we get through the news. But I think we want to start off by thanking our partners. We do. Go ahead and thank our partners. All right. We want to thank Penn Stadium, who is and has remained our premier partner and supporter of both the podcast and the pinball stream. And as a matter of fact, Pinball Stadium, almost once a month when we start streaming, gives away a lighting kit. They give away the Pin Stadium Adams, the newest one, the slim design, valued at $399.
    4:05
    I'm kind of shocked at the number of people that sometimes don't enter that raffle, but your odds are really good. So pay attention to our streams. We don't do it during the live podcast, but maybe we can next month. Maybe we'll mix it up and do it. Why don't we do it during the podcast so we don't punish the people who listen to that? Yeah. I said, well, if you're like Donnie and you like to enjoy your coffee and watch us, you might be able to win a set of Penn Stadiums, and we're looking out for you. All right. So, again, thank you, Penn Stadium. Save 10% with a coupon code BUFFALO. Once you get it on one of your machines, especially the newer ones, where even though there's a million LEDs, they're still dark for some reason. I'm looking at you, Stern. It makes a huge difference. All right. Other mentions, Comet Pinball for lighting kits, Flippin' Out Pinball. If you're going to purchase a pinball machine, go to Flippin' Out Pinball, best customer service in the industry, hands down. We've got Pinball EDU if you want to donate to a charity. Titan Pinball, maker of silicone rings. Pinball is the most comfortable mat, et cetera. Multimorphic, Pinsight.com, and Jersey Jack Pinball. All right, Kev. All right. Before we move on, quick shout-out. Thanks to Bedrock84. We just gifted five subs in our chat. So you get a shout out for that. Thank you. Absolutely. That's very generous of you. Appreciate it. All right. It's time for the news. And when we play the news, we play this. Here's the tip. It's the latest pinball news. So hot. It's on fire. All right. Coming up first. It's, you know, Jersey Jack just launched this yesterday. They said October 19th. That coincides with Pinball Expo. You're going to be able to check out the next Jersey Jack pinball machine. Countdown to launch. It says October 19th. Save the date. Hashtag Jersey Jack Pinball. That's all we get. But this is heavily rumored and speculated to be Elton John, perhaps Rocket Man themed, which the countdown to launch tag there would kind of hint at that.
    6:05
    What are your thoughts? Any level of excitement? What are you thinking as far as the next JJP game? Yeah, well, the interesting thing is, you know, we've talked about this in the past of the rumor of JJP making Elton John and it being designed by Steve Ritchie. So this will be Steve Ritchie's. That's true, right? Again, we don't know. We'll know soon enough. That's true. This will be Steve Ritchie's first pinball machine with Jersey Jack, right? So what does that mean? It means that he should have a larger budget to work with and get to do the things that, you know, he wants. He was sort of kind of hands tied behind his back, at least. That's kind of the perception or claim sometimes. Now, of course, when he was at Stern, he had big licenses, so obviously he ate into his building materials. But when this was first announced, Kevin, I was like, Elton John does nothing for me. I think from a theme perspective, that's not a bad theme at all. I mean, it's Elton John. Everybody knows Elton John. I think it will sell well on a theme. It's a good choice for a company as a theme. For me personally, it's like it doesn't move the needle. However, then I got Godfather, and I just absolutely fell in love with the game.
    7:17
    They kind of brought their flippers up to speed and on par with Stern's, I would say, for the most part. So now it's made me kind of look at this differently and say, huh, maybe this is a game I'd really like. Because I think music pins are some of my favorite games of all time to get. I'm kind of a sucker for those. I think they work very well with pinball. and now you've got Jersey Jack making a game with better flippers in it, Steve Ritchie's first game with it. I'm sure they want to come out with a real bang, right? And they've probably, you know, I think they want to probably get a huge win out of the gate with Steve Ritchie's first game. So I'm kind of cautiously optimistic about this, and I would consider buying it, whereas when it was originally announced, it wasn't even on my radar of ever owning an Elton John game. yeah i uh i i had kind of the first same reaction when i was like elton john it's like whatever but then you think about the history of elton john with pinball too like tommy and you know he's got the captain fantastic pinball machine already so it is kind of a cool like he has he has a history and a lineage with pinball which i appreciate which i think uh plays in well to uh licensing him and bringing a modern pinball machine with his music right because you know Captain Fantastic. That's an early solid state, I think. Or is it an EM? I can't remember. I think it's a solid state. Anyways, it's like a 70s-ish era game.
    8:45
    The other thing is, you know, I have it on good authority. Exclusive inside source. I won't reveal my source, but somebody inside Jersey Jack Pinball says it has stuff and also things in it. So be on the lookout for stuff and things when you play this pinball machine. at uh i'm assuming you got pinball expo it doesn't say pinball expo on this post but you gotta think it's gonna be there um so stay tuned for more looking forward to the next uh game and what else is cool that uh i think we should just mention is that you know for the past few years jjp has talked about how they want to get two games out a year and while technically they did do that between toy story 4 and godfather those were released within less than 12 months now you got two within a calendar year and i um so it's cool to see them finally hitting that milestone it's been a few years that they were talking about that and i know there's the the pandemic in the middle of all of that they kind of threw a wrench in the works so they relocated and all that stuff but they seem to be getting up to to where they want to be with production and it's cool to see so um yeah i mean they're gonna have two games in the running for game of the year yeah and uh i mean right now for me godfather's a slam dunk for game of the year for me, I realize that's probably not the case and it's going to uphill battle because of the price and people will vote for games that they can afford and buy.
    10:11
    There were a lot of games that came out this year so you don't get to play every game. I've not played Spooky. Sorry, I've only played Scooby-Doo a couple times. Not that that was ever in danger of being my game of the year. But point being, yeah, they're going to have two. What a hell of a year for pinball releases when you think about it.
    10:34
    Yeah, I mean, Galactic Tank Force is going to be game of the year. Everybody knows that. I forgot about that game already. Oh, weird. Let me look up. I like to play this game, Kevin. I derail things a little bit, but let's see how many have sold for Galactic Tank Force. Should I look at the LE or DE? I don't even know what the... I guess the LE is the normal version of that. Yeah, so you're going based on the number of people who have reported that they bought it on Pinside, right? Obviously, this is self-reported on Pinside. This is not how many are purchased. However, you can extract ideas, information about this. For example, there's over 1,000 Guns N' Roses that sold, Jersey Jack. So you can look at other games, or even better, maybe compare this to a game that was released this year, like Godfather or Foo Fighters. So, Kevin, let's play this game. You get one guess. How many pinsiders have reported owning Galacta Tank Force LE? This is the version that's like $9,000 to $12,000, $11,000. So this is not the one that turns into a tank. This is like standard cooking pinball machine. Correct. Let me see what the DE is. Probably Deluxe Edition, Bullshit Edition. Okay.
    11:48
    I'll be honest. I don't understand because the DE prices as $8,000, $9,000, so it's actually less. So I'll combine these two. Okay.
    12:01
    Okay. You can feel free to guess in chat, too, if you have a guess. Without cheating. I'm going to guess 25.
    12:11
    So there were 25 DE sold, but 37 LE sold. Okay. All right. Which is remarkably high. That is way higher than I thought, yeah. However, it's because we have low expectations for this. That's true. However, you will be out of business selling these many to people on pin side. And again, most of the people that buy this are going to be hardcore pinball people. This is not like when you launch Lord of the Rings or Godfather and you get like normies who just never owned a pinball machine, but their favorite theme just got made and they've got to own it. Right. This is this is pinball nerd central. So not good We will continue to keep updated on that I think this is a fun game While we're playing this game Can we see how many punny factories have sold?
    13:03
    Alright, absolutely That was definitely happening Okay, Chat and Kevin Did I tell you how many already? Did you know the answer to this? No, you were looking at it Chat and Kevin, how many punny factories Were self-reported as sold on Pinside? Yeah, I think five Scooby Vance. I think he nailed it in chat. Two. Five is five times too much. It's one.
    13:30
    So maybe that's the one guy who had the broken unit and was losing his mind. I did see one on the marketplace. So maybe that's the one. Somebody was trying to resell it. One would be a great number if you only made one and it was super limited. That'd be a success. 100% sales.
    13:50
    Alright. all right well we we might play this game some more during the the show today but let's you know what's amazing you know what's amazing about punny factory kevin is that it's supposed to be humorous but we're finding humor not the way the creator of this wanted it to be these are not the ones they were trying to get but we've gotten a lot of comedy out of this game it's been really it's been really good mission accomplished a lot of joy to our lives all right uh number two on the rundown while we're talking about jersey jack i want to just uh share that jjp launched a new accessories line for Godfather. So you can get a bunch of add-ons for your JGP Godfather. You get motorized gangster interactive topper, silver leg covers. So like the gold ones that are on the collector's edition, you can get a silver version for your, for your legs on, on the limited edition silver or horse head shooter rod and interior art blades. Oh, and you can also, it also comes with a little action button surround for your lockdown bar. And for $1,500 in comparison to other, like, topper prices and stuff, that's not bad for that whole kit. Or you can also buy them all individually. It's $1,000 for the topper, $500 for the leg and action button accessories, $150 for the art plates, and $129.99, $130 for the shooter rod. So if you want to trick out your JJP Godfather LE, you can do that. I'm not much of a topper guy, so that's not something I would get. But our buddy Patrick said he's probably going to get it. Yeah, that's certainly cool I feel like my game is so blinged out I'm good on that game It doesn't need anything If I were to get anything on that game It would be maybe the Art Blades But I'm good I kind of like the sheen The slick black The polished black all by itself It's just a slick looking game on its own You mean the sheen and the polished black? Yeah, it's got like The armor, it's like the shiny powder coated black Oh, I'm talking about the art plates. They don't go in the armor. I know, I'm just saying I just kind of like the look, the plain black look of it overall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's fine on that game. I've given up on art plates. I'm not doing art plates anymore. All done. I'm happy when I put them on my new sterns that I got. I think they look good dressed up, but yeah, I'm good on this game. I say that now. I say that now, but you know.
    16:16
    I just, I don't know. I'm too lazy to do the art blades. Actually. I'm terrified because I can't lift the play field up on my thing. So it's just too much. I think it's going to be too much a hassle for my circumstance. Yeah. That's a lot of, a lot of messing around. All right. Uh, what's up next? Let's talk some stern news. So stern cranked, they, they cracked open the vault, flung it open wide and out came a new limited edition version of Jurassic Park, the 30th anniversary edition.
    16:45
    Um, so they were like, yo dog you thought you had all the le's but no we're gonna make more le's um so to coincide with the uh jurassic park 30th anniversary uh yeah yeah they made more le's these have uh new updated art package at least on the cabinet and uh translate or backlash i presume it is um another 500 le's the pricing was was crazy town it was like 15 grand i think somewhere it's in here somewhere yeah johnny crapp did new art um yeah otherwise it's the same oh uh let's see uh j so 12 nine so 13 000 um yeah that compares to the original limited editions msrp of nine thousand dollars wow what a jump in a couple years uh yeah so they what is cool is they also uh they also did a code update though so for any if you already owned one um they added a new 30th anniversary quest mode uh which the mode will challenge players to collect dinosaur dna strands throughout the game to create amazing dinosaurs and earn badges so uh kind of a cool thing that they went back and launched this update, but also it was kind of weird to do more LEs, although Stern's going to Stern. They're going to do what they're going to do to try to sell more games. Any thoughts on a 30th anniversary version of Jurassic Park Hey whatever Make some money I be shocked if they sold 500 of those You know it like whatever It a game that most of us have played I don't know how much demand there was existing for it. But, you know, you compare it to something like, I don't know, like Stranger Things. There was, for whatever reason, everybody decided they wanted to get a Stranger Things after nobody bought them. and then the pandemic hit and they moved on to turtles and infinity quest and all that stuff uh but yeah they're they're open in the vault they're vaulting more stranger things pinball machines so yeah if that's one you're looking for you can get one of those uh but it's it's made some people mad and i wanted to uh bring this uh thread to to the attention of the usually whenever somebody has that am i the only one that's upset you know usually they're like yes have you seen this right nick no let's go i'm glad you're diving into some pin side nonsense i've uh let me let me let me read this to you okay it's not a real long post so uh this is uh note the uh ratio on this 262 down votes 12 of votes okay ready i just want to point out that i called it right as soon as like i i was right whenever you see a title yes they're like yes okay So I was right. Okay. Here we go. Uh, why question mark? Why would Stern re-release a game again? It kind of torques me up when I buy a pinball machine. I do it for a certain reason. One, the thrill of the find and want. Second, rarity, pride in owning something that not many people have. When Stern re-released stranger things, it took the fun out of owning one.
    20:07
    All right. We're about halfway done. now it's no longer rare or uncommon to own one i feel it's a big money grab for stern they can't even finish the games they have on the production lines as it is i've been waiting over a year to get accessories from them that have been on back order so my question is am i the only one that feels this way dude um i swear to god this is like you almost think this is a troll post but it's not, right? Like, this guy's been on Pinside for six years. Alright, so it's not like you just entered in the hobby, but this is really easy. Why? Why would Stern re-release the game again? Money, dummy. They're a fucking business. They're a business. Their goal, their only goal if you have a goal as a business other than make money, get the fuck out of here. This is not the Boys and Girls Club. Fucking done. That's it. Why? You don't need to write any more. Their goal is to make money. That's it. We criticize, like Kevin and I for years will talk about business decisions that pinball companies will make. And usually the criticism is like they're doing something antithetical to making money. Or they're doing something that they'll lose money. Like making a fucking punny factory, right? Like it's a terrible investment of time and resources. Or Galactic Tank Force, which is going to lose them money. But yes, Stern, there's a market and there's a demand with the price of Stranger Things that went up. So of course they will pump out more. Okay? Like, that's it. Simple. You should lose your right to post on Pinside. They should put you in the fucking Pinside penalty box for like three months for writing something that fucking dumb. And if you've been around for six years and have been on Pinside for six years, you should know that Stern vaults games. That's part of their strategy, right? You know, it goes all the – what was the first game they – I guess, you know, they ran more of Lord of the Rings back in the day. They made an LE of that. You know, it's like this is what they do. If there's demand for a game, they want to capitalize on that demand, and they're going to make more. And they should. Yeah. They're meeting – people want that. They're meeting demand for people. They're satiating that demand. That's great. Yeah. They're making a lot of people happy by doing that. You know, like your only leg to stand on would be if like a certain does this and they say like, oh, we're going to sell a topper and the topper is only for people by the fifteen thousand dollar version of a game. And they lie and then they make it available to anybody. That is like, OK, yes, they're doing it to make money. However, they've lied about something. They've lied to their customer base so they can generate sales. Right. And it's also a questionable business decision, too, because you can lose customers because of that. But in this case, they never said we're not going to make any more stranger things, that we're going to have a hard cap. We're never going to produce it again ever. Buy with confidence. This is going to be a rare thing. Get it now. Like, no, they never did that.
    23:13
    Yeah. So stupid. Oh, my Facebook is going off. Mute. Kevin knows what he's doing when he shows these posts, but like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but I will say, like, with the LE thing, like Jurassic Park, I think that's a little bullshit, because you're saying this is a limited edition version of this game. We're only going to make 500. But then you're like, oh, we do a 30th anniversary LE. You know, that's a little, that's more borderline. But if you're just, like, doing more pros and premiums, like, who cares? You know what I mean? It was never sold as something that's going to be limited. This is a more nuanced discussion than the example that you gave, Kevin. But with this guy, what he's talking about, there's nothing. Like, this is just stupidity at its finest. This is somebody crying because they thought they had an investment. And they're losing out on their investment. Like I said the other day in our Facebook group chat, I'm going to buy the games that you enjoy. And then if the price goes up on them, that's fine.
    24:17
    That's nice. If you end up selling it, you'll make a little money. If not, you've had a game that you liked playing the whole time. I don't think that's a crazy concept. Yeah, dude.
    24:27
    It's not typical that you buy a game and it shoots up thousands of dollars more than what you bought. That's not typical. That's the exception, not the rule. So that happened with Stranger Things because the man shot up like crazy. There weren't enough that were out there. So Stern wisely decided to satiate and make some money and make more of them. But that's not normal. This is not like bending the laws of how pinball works. That, you know, typically what's normal is you buy a game. As soon as you take it out of the box, you probably lost $500 on it, right, give or take. And, you know, years later, the game probably is still worth at least half as much as when you originally bought it. Like that's been pretty typical. There's enough historical data and years of evidence to know that. So, I mean, this is a cool hobby in that, you know, these things don't rapidly depreciate. In fact, a lot of times they might even hold their value. Now, they hold their value not because they're literally worth as much as when they came out. It's because there's more money floating around the system and inflation is a thing. So they're actually worth less than when they came out. But I digress. That's way too much of a fucking concept for you to even understand if you're confused by a business making money. But that's it. So, yes, we're going to see a post like this, Kevin, again, within six months. And I don't know what to tell these people. I don't know how you're in a position that you've gotten so far in life as an adult that you're able to afford a pinball machine, and yet you're stunned by a company making money. And you want Stern to make money. If you like pinball, you want Stern to be profitable and do everything that they can to make money so that pinball is around for years to come. All right, I think I'm good. I'm sorry for everybody who has, like, half a fucking brain that has to hear these rants. I know it's funny, it's humorous, but it's also tedious. Right, right. It's not a hard concept to grasp, but apparently it is that, you know, companies want to make money so they can pay their employees and make new products and move into bigger factories and all that stuff. Kevin, you know, I know this is – I, too, like to give people what they want. And I know that people do enjoy flipping out over stupid pin side posts. So I will ask you in the show notes every month to find a dumb pin side post. Okay, LumaLegs, we're great. This is great. I'm going to live what I preach. And, you know, we like to make some money too. So we're going to give people what they want. They like these rants. So there you go. Count on it. Check. All right. let's talk about some oh well before we move to that we still haven't played Venom I just threw that in there because I'm like it's been you know our last podcast was the end of July and here it is in October and it's we still haven't seen one our friend Patrick is waiting for his premium which hopefully he'll be getting within the next month or so and then we'll be able to go out there and stream it for all of y'all but then once we do we'll be able to give some hot first impressions of it. I'm actually kind of looking forward to it. What I've seen of it looks interesting.
    27:48
    But, yeah, to be determined. Yeah, I think a nice goal if Patrick is feeling charitable is, like, we'll try to – we'll see if we can, like, go over maybe. He's got time and we can maybe spend a few hours on it so we can generate a review. It would be nice. We have done a review for a while, and I'd love to really understand the game and see what's there and get back to doing a review of a new game. Yeah, same. For whatever reason, this is one that's really piqued my interest.
    28:17
    When he gets it, if he wants to have us over, I'm down to just go play the heck out of it. Yeah, so let's move into... Multimorphic has released a crap ton of stuff since our last show, so let's talk about it. And we can jump over here to the first thing, which is I got my final Resistance. The modules are shipping. I was able to do a live stream with our friend Michael Ocean, who is the lead programmer on this game. He also was the lead programmer on Weird Al's Museum of Natural Clarity. So if you want to check out some more of my production version of Final Resistance, you can check that out on our YouTube channel. I've got the game stream archive there. And, you know, Michael talks all about the backstory about developing the game and the rules. And, you know, he shares some hints and tips and stuff throughout. And he's just great to talk to. So that's Final Resistance. Awesome. Finally, super stoked to have a Scott Denise game in my collection. And that game is really fun. So we're going to do it. We're going to do a bro show on it. Then I anticipate they'll do a pretty good code update here in pretty short order. So I was like, well, we did this stream of the current code. Let's wait for a code update. And once that's out, we'll get together and do a bro on it. So that'll be fun. The next thing, Michael came back like, you know, a week or two later, and he had another new game. This is one he developed on his own. It's called Dungeon Door Defender. It's an add-on game for the heist play field, and it's a tower defense pinball game. So if you're watching, you see all the guys running up and trying to attack the door. The heist module has the prison door in the middle of the play field. That's the one you're defending. and uh yeah you can roll over the the bad guys attacking on the lower two-thirds of the playfield on the screen uh there's power up so you can get you can buy stuff in the store uh really fun uh kind of super addicting take on a tower defense game uh in a in pinball format so check that out if you get the highest playfield it's 200 bucks um to add to your collection for the p3 and then we had just this past week uh nick baldridge from four amusement only games jumped on the stream and he uh he has a new add-on game for his drained playfield so it's drained to bite size it's a speed run vampire slaying uh mini game add-on so yeah it's basically you start right off in a battle with one of the vampires and you're just trying to slay them all as fast as you can uh there's timers there's different strategies you're going to want to take if you're focused on you know short times or maximizing the the damage you do against your the vampires doesn't you know because you can still stun them so you want to determine you know if you want to take the time to do that or not um there's also negative points in it so you start out with x number of points and then as you shoot things points go down but as you slay vampires the points go up so you have to manage that too which is kind of cool because if you run out of points then your game's over so So really unique take on an add-on game for the P3. If you're out at York, he's there this weekend. And that's a $99 add-on game for the P3 and the Drain playfield. If you buy it, he's running a special, I think through the weekend, if you buy the Drain playfield, you get the add-on game for free. So fun little bonus there. If you've been wanting to get a Drain and you want to add it to your collection, it's a little incentive to do so. Also congrats to Nick for his he's been named the customer support for Multimorphic. So he's he's brought on in an official capacity. He's doing customer support for for Multimorphic on the P3. And he's he's the right man for the job. He knows the P3 inside and out. And he's really good at explaining things in a thorough and and way that non tech heads such as me can understand. So congrats, Nick, on that, and congrats to Multimorphic on the addition to the team.
    32:35
    While we're talking about ins and outs, let's talk about some hires, and I don't know if they're hires, but in American Pitball News, Barry Engler, who used to be with, I think he was, he used to be with JJP. I forget who he was with before that, but he's gone. He's left. the departure of its production manager and according to Barry three other key employees from American pinball right when manufacturing of its newest game galactic tank force was starting last spring. Maybe part of the reason why the game's production has been so slow and has had a few issues. This is what, uh, according to nap arcade, uh, a story on there. So yeah. Um,
    33:19
    people are, people are bailing on American pinball. It seems like I also read something like they lost the, either the copyright or the trademark for Galactic Tank Force, which is kind of amazing if you think about it.
    33:30
    Nobody was paying attention to that. And some other hires and fires. Jersey Jack Pinball hired Tom Capera as its new chief operating officer. They hired him away from Stern Pinball. He was Stern's director of mechanical engineering since 2021.
    33:48
    He's an industry veteran who worked previously with George Gomez at Valley Midway, created pinball mechs such as the Glove and Johnny Mnemonic, basketball shooter and NBA fast break, and co-designed Cactus Canyon and Stern Rolling Stones.
    34:05
    And because he loved Stern Pinball, hired Kevin Payne as its new director of mechanical engineering.
    34:11
    So, yeah, he's got a bunch of history, too. So lots of movement in the pinball industry. People jump and ship to different companies. So any thoughts on any of that, Nick?
    34:23
    no comment no no comment doesn't care moving on uh oh wanted to give a quick shout out to our friend leor uh from the art of pinball he announced a partnership that he's going to be efficient so he's been making pinball mods he makes some of the most incredible pinball mods out there um super detailed handcrafted and created um so he's officially creating sculpts for manufacturers now to be you know put in in production games the first one he's announced is with Dutch Pinball.
    34:54
    On his Instagram, Lior says that we are now the supplier for all the sculpts and toys in the Big Lebowski and other future projects for Dutch Pinball. So looking forward to that. I think he might also be working with Pinball Brothers and those folks. So I don't know if he's talked about that publicly or not, but I think that's happening. So congrats to Lior. And one other thing, I was planning on doing, you know, in memoriam on the pinball arcade because, um, the, um, there was kind of rumors flying around the, uh, week or so ago that the pinball arcade has been delisted from all these different platforms. And, um, you know, it's the, the demise of this game that got so many of us into the, you know, hobby even super deeper than we had been. Um, so I started digging around and I saw some, some posts about how it's coming back on the Google play store. and if you jump i jumped over to the pinball arcade facebook page and it says this was on september 29th pinball arcade has been temporary temporarily delisted from the apple app store on ios don't worry we will be back up within a few days we apologize for the inconvenience so uh the rumors of the pinball arcade's demise are greatly exaggerated uh i don't know how greatly because they haven't been really supporting it much either but thankfully i i'm glad it's still there when I get the urge to like jump on my iPad and flip around on some of the old, uh, pinball arcade tables. I like to have it there. So that's good news. If you've, uh, if you've bought a bunch of pinball arcade tables that they're, they're going to stick around, but probably wouldn't hurt to download them and just have them on your device. Uh, I ended up doing that on my iPad. I was like, let me just download all these and, and save them. They do take up a chunk of memory, but I like having them. So, um, glad pinball arcade still kicking it.
    36:45
    Um, all right. anything was there anything else no I think that it that it as far as news we did all the news Let do some game room updates Do you want to kick it off and do game room updates first Because I've been talking a lot. Sure. So I don't have any major game room updates.
    37:04
    God, you know, I think my next game will probably be Pulp Fiction, but I think that's like nobody even knows when that's going to come out because Chicago Gaming or whatever is so backed up, which is fine.
    37:19
    I'd rather save my money at this point, just given where the economy is, and maybe in the summer I'll grab that or grab Jersey Jack's new game. But, yeah, no game room updates. I can give a co-op update for those paying attention following that because I don't think I've brought it up in a while. So the plan is we're hoping to be open by summer for that.
    37:46
    For those that want to be a member of it or maybe help out or play a role in it, I think we're going to do some – I want to do like a tour of the space. It's kind of like a shell of it. Matt has just done a remarkable, time-consuming job of taking this kind of worn-down building that's been, like, this old bar that's not been inhabited since 2007. So it's needed a lot of love.
    38:21
    He recently just got, like, the parking lot across the street. He purchased that. So it is really coming along. and I want to do a tour before the snow really hits and it gets cold, so maybe late October, early November. For those that are serious, I'm not interested in opening the door to anybody who's just curious, but for those that are thinking they want to be a member, membership is probably going to be over $1,000 a year, just a heads up, so we're not wasting anybody's time. But this is going to be a serious space that it's coming along. And, of course, when it does open up, we'll do some tour videos and we'll showcase it on the website. But I'm really excited for that. So, again, reach out to me if we haven't talked already, you're interested in that, and we'll go from there. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. And, you know, obviously once it's up, we'll be doing streams from there and stuff like that because there's a lot of cool rare, unusually rarely seen games that are going in there. So I think it's going to be a fun spot to do some streams from and there's going to be tournaments and leagues and stuff like that, so there's going to be opportunities to show it off to everybody too. So looking forward to that.
    39:34
    For my game room updates, my big thing has been all the P3 stuff. So I got my Final Resistance, like I mentioned. I've been playing Dungeon Door Defender and Drained. Those have all been super fun as far as pinball. I also, since the last podcast, we got to go to Disney World, or the Tron coasters. I bought a bunch of Trons though, so that's all over my game room now.
    39:58
    And that's super fun. If you're into, if you like that theme, definitely recommend going in and riding that coaster.
    40:05
    And what else? Oh, I've been, I played a few video games. I finally finished Zelda, Tears of the Kingdom. So that was super fun. And I blasted through all of Pikmin 4. That game's super fun too. So if you're looking for anything on your Switch, I highly recommend those two. if you haven't been paying attention Brody Even Pinball is back we've been doing that on Friday nights mostly from our buddy Dave Sousa's house he had a hard body and no good gophers or no the other ones heat off and flight 2000 that we did those are all on the YouTube channel if you haven't seen those super fun we're going to go he's got a Foo Fighters premium we haven't streamed that yet so we'll be over there I think that's probably next one we're going to do by the way Hardbody as much as it is a meme game,
    40:54
    it's a fun game. It's a good game. Really good game. I think it's one of those games that people dismiss because of the theme. And it's also, you don't see it ever. We've been waiting forever to play this game on stream, so Dave's been awesome in grabbing these weird games. That's going to be a game that's going to be at the co-op. Also on the stream, the left flipper was a little bit weak, So he's fixed that, and once he fixed that, the shot became so much better. Again, it's a tough game. It really keeps you on your toes. I think it's just a great game to have in a collection. Yeah, the flow, the way the shots line up, too, it's like got all these crazy crisscross shots, and you can shoot the left ramp, and then it loops around, and then it goes into the little blaster loop at the top, and then the right ramp will feed to shoot the drop targets at the top. yeah super fun game let's jump back we got some roller coaster talk in chat Tron vs. Guardians coasters give the edge to Guardians says Vinny Blanc I will say everybody was really hyping up the Guardians of the Galaxy coaster that's at Epcot so I went in thinking it was going to be this amazing experience and it wasn't as good as I thought it was going to be it was fun but being the huge Tron fan that I am definitely giving the edge to the Tron coaster. Because, you know, you're sitting on a late cycle. It's like you're riding a late cycle.
    42:20
    Give me that all day. There you go. Alright, anything else? Oh, yeah, so Bro is back and also Buffalo Pinball League is back, so I always like to give a shout out to the league when we start running that. It's year 10 of Buffalo Pinball League. We started in 2013, so here we are in 2023. Although, you know, we didn't run it during the pandemic, so not exactly 10 years of the league, but 10 years since we started. And it's good to be back. It was fun to host. And, yeah, good to have everybody hanging out and playing pinball.
    42:50
    All right. So now I think it's time to get to the segment everybody has been waiting for. These are the most 80s pinball machines ever.
    43:00
    So Nick and I both compiled our – No debate. That's it. Definitive. Objectively, they're the most 80s pins ever. So said by Nick Lane and Kevin Manning. These are objective facts. There are no such thing as opinions in pinball. Only facts. um so we're gonna start out uh nick why don't you why don't we go through your so we had some crossover so we both developed lists there was some crossover so we'll give those at the end as the most 80s pins but in the in the beginning here let's talk through the ones that uh we singled out on our own as the most 80s pins so we only had kevin i only had believe it or not for the overlapped yeah all right and i think that's because we looked at like things through a different lens. So maybe, Kevin, as I go through the list, and I'll start in order, if you can maybe show some pictures. And I've got to say as a caveat, you know, these are games that, if I'm lucky, maybe I've played a few times. I've not played most of these games a lot just because most people don't want these games or collect these games. You know, again, the thing about collectors is most collectors are really boring, including myself sometimes. Well, I think I'm pretty decent. But, like, everybody wants the newest and greatest game, and they discount some of these games, sometimes for good reason and sometimes for not.
    44:14
    So one thing I'm excited about the co-op is we're going to have more of these games to play, right? Anyways, without further ado, and this is in no particular order. I want to highlight that. So my unique game that Kevin did not have was Monte Carlo.
    44:33
    You're going to notice a lot of Gottliebs on here, And I think the lens that I looked for for an 80s game is, like, you just look at that back glass, and most people of common sense will be able to be like, and you ask them when that game was made, they're going to look at the hairstyle, the outfits, the theme, and it is definitively 80s. And that's what I looked at it. Like, granted, like, I could have said, like, RoboCop. It's like, ah, RoboCop's 80s. It came out in the 80s. But I wasn't looking for, like, yeah, it was a movie that came out. I'm just like, okay, I'm going to show you a picture of a pinball machine. You tell me when this came out. Monte Carlo.
    45:12
    There you go. So our friend Matt snagged this game. I can't wait to play it more. Gottlieb always has amazing 80s synth music, which is another thing that makes this super 80s. So it's Monte Carlo. My next one. Can I just say I was watching the morning show on Apple TV. and if you want to see Jennifer Aniston and John Hamm play Monte Carlo, you can do it in that TV series. I was like, they're playing Monte Carlo because you can see the little roulette wheel in the middle of the play field. So stocks are going up on Monte Carlo, ladies and gentlemen.
    45:47
    100%. All right, next, Kevin, can we look at Torpedo Alley? Oh, absolutely. Torpedo Alley is not a game, again, I guess that people see a lot of.
    45:57
    I would love to get my hands on Torpedo Alley, by the way. I think it would be fun. This is a Data East game from the later 80s. I think it's 87.
    46:05
    But again, this falls under my criteria. You look at the back glass, you see just 80s kind of spandex outfits. They're real people, so this is not a drawing on the back glass. This is what the 80s were doing, right? They were taking real photos instead of just drawing it, which makes it super cheesy.
    46:24
    But yeah, look at those butts. There's even a man butt. You know, you got 80s hairstyle, 80s thing. Like, love it. Fantastic. Equal opportunity butts. That's right. That's what we like. I don't know. I can't speak to the music because I think I played it once at Papa or Pimberg or Replay FX or whatever. But that's a game I'd love to spend some time on. Next is, here we go. Another Gottlieb. Here's a shocker. Diamond Lady. Oh, Diamond Lady. All right, here we go. It is that like blown out 80s haircut. But all this, like, there is a recurring thing with these 80s games, which are about, like, luxury, elegance, and money. Like, that's peak boomer, lifestyles of the rich and famous. We haven't even gotten to, like, the peak game, but there it is. There's Diamond Lady. Oh, yeah. There's 80s, like, the fonts, the art. I love the, just like, there's, like, so many pictures of the Diamond Lady all over the play field, and they're photorealistic. and if you want to know where scooby-doo got their uh drop targets between the flippers from diamond lady baby there's no question about that that game is from the 80s right that's that's what makes it 80s there's it's not 70s not 90s that's that's clearly in the 80s all right next for me for my most 80s pinball machine is this one's diverting a little bit because it's not a photo Backlass I don't think it is It's Spectrum Pinball Is Now if somebody looked at that And thought that that came out In the 70s or late 70s I would understand good sir Or maybe 1% of women that listen to this podcast I understand However this is a early 80s It's a 1982 game It's like what the fuck is this theme Right so So that is super 80s haircut, 80s style. It's got these rainbow colors on it, but also black. Black seems to be like, and it's got these kind of like circuit board art. So, yeah, it's Spectrum. Screams 80s. Could be mistaken for 70s, but early 80s is what it's signaling. All right, here we go. going back to uh what i was saying earlier about the kind of like this boomer flex of money we've got millionaire this is uh i believe this is a bally game right kev yeah i think so yeah uh williams 1987 millionaire okay so millionaire is fucking hysterically funny as it as an 80s game because this is this is a product of its time look at this elegance this is a boomer flex they He made a pinball machine about being rich. That was the theme.
    49:07
    He's got the 80s stash. Yeah, look at that. He's got the limo that it looks like a child designed because it's just a box.
    49:16
    Got the mansion in there. It's got the yacht. I'm surprised they're not doing a line of Coke on it. But what also puts it at a time in the 1980s is that today if somebody is like, yeah, I've got a million dollars and I've got a million dollars saved for retirement, I'd be like, what are you going to do? How are you going to make it? Are you going to get a side job? A million dollars is nothing today. And it's progressively becoming worthless. So my alternative title for this game is called Fiat. But yeah, that's Millionaire by Williams. Peak 80s, very 80s. Pairs nicely with Monte Carlo, by the way. Oh yeah, they both have roulette wheels, I just noticed. So if you want roulette wheels, Get those in a teed off and you'll be all set. It's elegance. And then last but not least for my game that differs than Kevin for my peak 80s is Spring Break Pinball. Surprise, surprise. I should have had this on my list. This is another Gottlieb pinball machine. Kevin, let's look at that. This is another photo back glass. And not just one photo, but there's many photos in this thing. It's hard to find a good photo. Oh, God. Okay, so let's talk about this photo. We've got people at the beach flexing like muscle men, ladies checking them out. Then you have potentially like a bikini contest, I think, in the upper left. Yeah, a t-shirt contest probably is what that is. Dudes in a pool drinking. Now, what I was telling Kevin earlier, what I like about the picture of the three dudes in a pool drinking is that they all look like they're from the 80s. However, here's the twist. kids these days like they dress up and they cosplay like they're in the 80s or 90s so this is like come full circle right this could be today yeah this could be today uh this is very fucking 80s and then even on the bottom right corner you've got a bunch of ladies in bikinis again real photos these are real people and you have like uh uh imitation spuds mckenzie yeah and like surrounding them you've got sand and there's sunglasses like checkered sunglasses There's a bikini top that's just taken off there. Yeah, just hanging out there. You've got the 80s radio with the tape deck in it. Oh, yeah. Oh, and let's not neglect this playfield art. The topless lady that's covering herself up with her arms. That's spring break, baby. It's hijinks and fun. And you've got leopard print on the drop targets. Oh, leopard print is peak 80s. That is really good. Oh, there's the Spuds McKenzie here again, too. Yeah. There it is. Spring break. That might win. That might be the most 80s, but we didn't necessarily agree on all of those. Yeah, we didn't want to put these in a rank. But, yeah, dude, the leopard print.
    52:04
    God, so much 80s in that. And we didn't even talk. I mean, you can't even get into the music because it's been a while since we heard the music on it. But rest assured, very 80s. Okay. So one game that came to mind for me is, let me grab a good photo here. It is BMX. because when you think 80s, man, everybody was BMXing all over the place. They didn't make a lot of these, but I feel like this is a theme. You know, you had your movies about BMX. Everybody had their sweet rides with their, you know, you had the pegs on your back wheel. So BMX, definitely a peak 80s game. It doesn't have that cheese factor about it, but I feel like it just, like, encapsulates one of those things that was kind of ubiquitous. If you were a kid in the 80s, you probably had a BMX bike.
    52:53
    All right, so let's pop back over here. It's going to be a little less smooth when I'm finding the pictures and talking. So my next one. Oh, yeah, Nick liked this one. He regretted not having this one. Yeah, I regretted this one. I missed.
    53:07
    And I don't want to give away my searches because that will spoil it. Here you go. It is Laser War. Laser War from this is a Data East game came out in, I don't have the year in front of me, But Laser War, again, another thing that was like peak 80s was Laser Tag. Man, we loved Laser Tag. And another incredible backlash, Photo Reef. More spandex. God, I'll tell you right now, Data East, they got a deal on spandex. Yeah, they got their spandex. They got their ladies out of wherever they were getting them out of. And this dude blasted them in this wall for some reason. And she's almost shooting him in the head.
    53:52
    Laser War, highly recommended. In digital stereo, no less. And, you know, we talk about Gottlieb a lot and their photo backlashes. But Data East, I kind of forgot that they were doing that to him. And I did have Torpedo Alley. But they're over there saying, you know what? I really like what Gottlieb's doing by not hiring artists and just snipping some pictures. Yeah, Data East was giving them a run for their money. I feel like sometimes...
    54:18
    What's interesting, though, is I think Data East tried a little harder because they seemed to have costumes that they purchased. With Spring Break, I swear to God, they just sent a photographer down there and was taking pictures, and they're like, we got it. Yeah.
    54:33
    My next machine is not turning up in the search for whatever reason. But my next search, everybody knows this one, TX Sector. I put that one on the list because the music is unquestionably 80s, super synth amazing sound if you hear that game playing, it's a dance party in a box you know you couldn't find that in Google? no, I was searching it on the pin side database and it's not turning up just look at Google images, it might be your best bet you gotta show the people to Kevin's point even though the flyer is a good one the flyer like the flyer is The flyer's good. Yeah the flyer on pin side by the way I mean the chick in the flyer thing has like 80s haircut she got like so 80s yeah yeah so come so this is the the front of the flyer oh yeah and then uh let me see if i can go to the next look at that jump jump suit that she's in or whatever yeah that's really good and then this is this is the winner yeah that's when i was looking at yeah yeah yeah so there's the back glass and then man look at her she is she is peak 80s right there. Yep, 100%. The jacket, the haircut, the little art by the eye, the makeup by the eye. That's good. Because she's in the future, Kevin! Yeah, the 80s, we were all about the future. The back glass, always looking washed out for whatever reason. Whatever special technique they decided to do for that. It always made it look weird.
    56:05
    I think they're just bad and washed out. I think if you got a new one, they'd be fine. So, the next one might be a little controversial because it was technically, the machine was released in 1990. Kevin, I don't count. It doesn't count then. But the show came out in the 80s. Doesn't matter.
    56:23
    I don't count it. Kevin's cheating. No. It's Roller Games. Look at this game. There's no denying this is 80s. Pink, blue. I mean, you can't deny it.
    56:39
    Roller Games It was a special place in my heart because it was my first pinball machine. But if you're looking for the most 80s pinball machines, this one has to be in consideration for that. Neon colors. I think there's some leopard print right on their outfits. Yeah. It sings the 80s song, Rock, Rock, Rock and Roller Games, which is, again, peak 80s. It's got the confetti on there. The confetti design is very 80s. Yeah. What the fuck were they thinking? Yeah. And roller derby in itself Roller skating, roller derby Everybody was doing that in the 80s You gotta throw that in the mix I wasn't, but everybody but me I was roller skating You go to roller skating parties That's right, your birthday parties were at the roller rink And you'd go to the arcade Because you didn't want to socialize with people You'd go play video games and pinball in the arcade That's exactly what I did I'd stumble around on the rink I'd do a lap, hug in the wall and I'm like, fuck this, I'm going to go play Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Yeah, I'm going to go play Mat Mania and Turbo and all sorts of stuff in the arcade instead. So there you go, that's Roller Games.
    57:49
    Oh, here's another. Yeah, I like this. I like this pick. This was a good pick. I'm going to pat myself on the back.
    57:55
    When you think 80s, you think space, right? And nothing is more space than the Space Shuttle. So Space Shuttle is one of my picks. 1985 Barry Osler game. Or 84, sorry. Here it comes. It's Space Shuttle.
    58:12
    Yeah, so there's... Yeah, thanks for... Oh, yeah, there you go. Man. It's got a Space Shuttle on there. Very, very 80s. NASA, you know, going to space. We love it. The Space Shuttle was a timeless piece of 80s nostalgia. This is an interesting one with this weird apron thing going on. But there that's a that's a more traditional looking space shuttle.
    58:38
    I wanted to like find what's the Steve Ritchie game that was not Star Wars, but it was basically Star Wars.
    58:48
    I don't know. I couldn't remember what the name of it was, but that was going to be my nomination. It's like everybody ripping off Star Wars was very 80s. Stellar Wars. That's the one was the one that Steve Ritchie did. um so but in lieu of that we have we have space shuttle because i feel like you can't talk about the 80s and not talk about space shuttle uh and one more i'm gonna pull up here um before we move to our top four that we both agreed on uh bear with me while i google it depends how it's spelled here yeah here we go so this is gonna be i i i kind of cheated and i went for a twofer but i wanted to uh capture the idea of the video arcade because video arcade games were very 80s uh so my pick is pac-man and mr and mrs pac-man slash baby pac-man so either one of these there's nothing more 80s than pac-man um neither one of these were really great games but you know that wasn't our criteria for being on this list you just had to encapsulate all things that were 80s and uh baby pac-man even brought in the video game aspect and integrated physical pinball so you would play the a maze game pac-man at the top on the crt screen and then you would drop down and play physical pinball the um mr and mrs pac-man was kind of the opposite it was all physical pinball, but the inserts on the play field, you can play like a pack maze sort of game. So using the flipper buttons, you would navigate your way around a little maze in the beginning. So yeah, Caveman's also another one. There's a few games that integrated video games and pinball in the 80s. Caveman is one.
    60:43
    Granny and the Gators is another one. I'm sure there's one or two more, but those are my picks for the most 80s pinball machines. All right, let's go to our overlapping. We've got four that overlapped, and these four have something in common where they all have photo back glasses. Okay. Are we going to start at the bottom and work our way up? Or 80s?
    61:09
    Could go either way. These are kind of actually in order of peak 80s. So we can do that. Okay. There we go.
    61:21
    Starting at the bottom is... This should be no surprise to people who pay attention to this channel because I own this fucking game and I'm very proud of it. It's Bad Girls.
    61:33
    We've got a photo back glass. We've got a bunch of hookers on the back glass. We've got a very much decisively 80s bar with this kind of like the chrome and the mirror finish everywhere.
    61:46
    And anybody who's heard the music on this game, this game stole music from Michael Jackson's Bad album in 1987, and one of the tracks is in this game, thus making it. If it wasn't 80s enough, they really sealed the deal with that. I would argue that the 80s-ish colors, again, like a lot of 80s colors is a lot of black. But then you've got, there's not neon per se. They go with a lot of pink.
    62:15
    But they've got, the ladies are kind of punk looking. 80s punk vibe to them. The paneling on the cabinet is mirrored as well. There's mirrored panels. Oh yeah, let me see if I can find that. And then the music in the game is fantastic. Just very, Gottlieb crushed it with like the 80s synth on the games of this era. But make no mistake, you walk up to this game, you play this game, it is 80s. It's peak 80s. Yeah, there's no like cabinet shots. But yeah, there's mirroring on the side, which is really good. And the bad girl spot on it is very, very 80s too. Like that style of typography.
    62:58
    There you go. So that's that one. All right, why don't you tee up the next one? Okay, so the next one is another one. This came up. The chat said this better be on there, and the chat was right. So that is another Gottlieb game, a game you don't see too often. Again, we haven't played a ton, but that's Raven, which is – so Gottlieb was doing this thing in the 80s where they weren't securing rights to popular things. There was a game called Gold Wings, and Gold Wings was supposed to be Top Gun, while Raven was basically Rambo. But instead of getting licensed for Rambo, they called it Raven. and they have a woman on the back glass, and it's, again, a photo back glass, so it looks cheesy as hell. You've got, like, the 80s female short perm on it. Like, you can't tell if this woman is, like, 20 or 52, right? Like, this is, like, that's how the 80s rolled, all right? No idea how old this person is.
    63:57
    But that is Raven. I don't think this is particularly a good game. At least the ones I've ever played never felt good, never felt great. And a lot of the 80s Gottlieb games that we talk about, as cheesy as they are, they are pretty good. This game never struck me as good. Somebody can convince me I'm wrong. I'm cool with that. I want this game to be good, but it's like, yeah, like you said, anytime I've played it, the flippers haven't felt great. And it's just kind of like the shots aren't there. So, yeah, not the best representation of gameplay. But, you know, I mean, the theme is undeniably 80s.
    64:32
    Dr. Blueberry Johnson says it's a horrible game. So I take that to the bank. All right. What do we got next? Okay. You can tee this one up. All right. The next is one that we streamed within the last year. Surprise, surprise. Another Gottlieb. I mean, we could have been super lazy and just picked a bunch of the 80s Gottlieb with photo back glasses. is another game that should have been licensed but Gottlieb cheaped out on it. They cheaped out on artists and just hired a photographer, and that is Hollywood Heat, which is supposed to be Miami Vice. You don't get much more 80s than that.
    65:13
    We've got an 80s Corvette in the background. We've got fake Don Johnson. We've got two ladies with bikinis by it. you've got that pink, what is it? What color pink is that? Like a pastel? Yeah, the pink and blue combo is very 80s. You got 80s font all over it. Yeah, the font is even like a ripoff of the Miami Vice logo.
    65:39
    The soundtrack is the 80s synth banger, by the way. I don't love this game. Patrick has it. I don't know if it was just, it felt a little weak at times with the flippers. It didn't feel like as much as I love, like, I love bad girls. I didn't love the playability of this game. But without a doubt, everything about this game, from the colors in the art to the backlash to the actual theme that it's ripping on, it is very, very unmistakably 80s.
    66:09
    All right. We got two more. And I'll get to one more. Oh, yeah, that's right. The ultimate one.
    66:20
    And debatable of an ultimate 80s, but I am inclined. It's tough to say what's the most 80s. There may be some recency bias here, too, but, I mean. Recency bias, probably. Let's just look at the backlash of this game. This game, believe it or not, is not a Gottlieb. It's hard to believe. Even Bally, like, again, I don't know what was in the fucking water around, like, 1985 to 88, which is where these games came out. But another photo backlash, and that's Hardbody. hard body you've got you've got this female muscle builder blown out 80s hair the same concept goes again i don't know if she's 20 or or 50 years old in this uh hard to tell uh she's in a bikini in the back glass on four photos but also the back glass is that shitty in the background is the shitty grid style. You've got the 80s color. Again, the pink all over. This pink color that we found in Bad Girls, we saw in Hollywood Heat. It's here again. This is not even the same company that's doing it.
    67:31
    The theme is peak 80s where the theme is all about muscles. You have all the movies like Schwarzenegger and these kind of muscle men movies. Well, now, this is something for the ladies. We've got Hard Body.
    67:44
    You guys, I don't know, Kevin. What the fuck? Yeah, I mean, the grid pattern is unmistakable in this game.
    67:51
    No one would do that today. Yeah, the bodies with no heads all over the play field. That's not necessarily 80s. It's a weird design choice. It's a weird design choice, but yeah.
    68:04
    Yeah, it's very strange, very strange. And yeah, the more I played this game, I'm like, yeah, this is so 80s. I like how on the upper play field they put the time and effort in to make this hard body light up. And it's got sequential lighting on it. It's got some inline drop targets. Man, yeah. Like you said, the bodybuilding, the muscle beach stuff, that's all super 80s. The look and feel of this game. The cheese factor. Like, this checks all those boxes. Yeah. It's really as most 80s game is determined by us. And just like you talk about the odd theme choices, right? Like so Hollywood Heat and Raven, like they're like a knockoff of a license. And that's not necessarily odd to me, right? Like because we do licenses all day. But Bad Girls and Hard Body really just peak weird 80s unique themes that would just never come out today. Right? Like even American Pinball wouldn't do this. I don't want to put anything past them. But even them.
    69:10
    That's saying something. So, yeah, that is Nick and Kevin's list of peak 80s pinball machines. Scribble's not sure about that. He thinks AP might do it. They might. You never know. Like I said, I put myself in out why I don't put anything past them. I don't know. My prediction's still in play that they're going to go out of business in two years. So there's still about a year and a half to go for my prediction. Nice. All right. That's going to do it for this episode of Brody Even Talk Pinball. Tune in again next time for more shenanigans. Maybe we'll, you know, if you got a suggestion for our next top list, send it to talkpinball at gmail.com. We take recommendations and feedback there. If you haven't yet, visit buffalopinball.com slash merch. You get yourself a sweet Buffalo pinball shirt like Nick Lane's wearing, Brody Even Pinball. Yeah, there it is. Get yourself one of those. they got play angry we got the skull shirt we got mugs and stickers and all sorts of fun stuff so great way to support the channel and uh and and and give back and and wrap and look good while you're doing it hoodies no hoodies are uh the the bane of our existence everybody loves the hoodies but they're a huge pain in the butt so yeah a couple things number one uh kevin and i don't always do this but we probably should do it once in a while in the beginning because i i know when I watch videos if people don't ask for it, I forget. Hit the like button if you're watching on YouTube because that helps people find this and we tend to get more visibility. Don't forget to subscribe. That helps us. Of course, consider donating to Buffalo Pinball or subscribing via Twitch. If anybody has a solution for printing hoodies,
    70:56
    we used to have somebody local. We have shirts on our website, but they don't offer hoodies. well they do but not good ones so really we're only interested in doing American Peril hoodies because the one I'm rocking has held up fantastic for years always looks good if there's somebody out there that wants to partner with us to help get them produced shipped out maybe we would do some pre-orders we probably would charge a lot for it because it would be a limited run but I do want to meet the demand and I wear again And, like, the hoodies that I have, I've been wearing them for years. I get so much uses out of them. And it's the really cool design with the Buffalo Pinball kind of pop-up logo in front and then the skull in back. So you're getting both of our logos. And hoodies and pinball go together like building muscle in the 80s, right?
    71:49
    That's right. But in the meantime, you can get shirts and all that other fun stuff if you go to buffalopinball.com. Follow us on our social media channels if you haven't yet. We're on Twitter slash X, Instagram, YouTube if you want to see archives of our old streams or past episodes of this show. We're on Facebook and also Discord.
    72:10
    If you want another way to support the channel, you can follow and subscribe on Twitch. If you go to Amazon Prime sub, you get a free sub every month. Would appreciate you sharing that with us. And PayPal. We got a PayPal account. Sometimes people like to just shoot us a little bit of cash that way to support the channel. PayPal.com.
    72:31
    What's the address for that? I forget. Well, PayPal, if you want to donate. Yeah, so one of the cleanest ways to donate to us, right when you do things on, if you subscribe on Twitch, which is great, Twitch takes half a cut. One of the cleanest ways to donate is if you want to just PayPal us a tip or whatever, it's buffalopinball at gmail.com. We get 100% of that. which is nice. Send us family and friends. It's appreciated. At the most basic, you don't have to spend any money. Just hit like on our YouTube channels or subscribe. Appreciate everybody listening. Appreciate the participation and chat. We don't always read every question, but we see it.
    73:07
    I think it's fun. It's a little bit interactive. Love the community that we have. It's super fun doing this and chatting with you all while we do it and integrating your feedback. We have some of the funniest fans. I don't always address but they crack me up. So I see them. Yep. And hopefully next time we talk, there'll be a new Jersey Jack pinball machine to talk about. So looking forward to that. You know, we're not going to expo, but we look forward to seeing what comes out of there and hope everybody has a blast that ends up going. So we'll see you next time. Bye y'all. Bye.