Warning, the following episode contains adult language and screaming goats. Listener discretion is advised. The Pinball Network is online. Launching the Pinball Show. This week on the Pinball Show, Dennis and I talk about soft dogs. A look inside Stern's new empty building. Stern Pinball production updates. newly released Godfather accessories, GTF going vertical, timing of AP's next game, the exclusive TPS membership discussion on Pokemon pinball rumors and what we know, as well as spooky pinball rumors, putting down money on something before you actually know what you're putting down money for, new companies, rhythm flipper music modes, final, final resistance go for relaunch, Dennis' 2023 Halloween costume reveal, and good old pinball market trends. Pinball is a game of skill. For some, it's a passion and a lifestyle. It's time for the Pinball Show. It's pinball with personality. Guess what, listeners? Episode 137 of the Pinball Show with Dennis Creasel and myself, Zach Minney. Dennis, how the hell are you today? I'm doing pretty well, Zach. I do have a question for you. I got an answer for you, my friend. Do you ever take your pets and put them in fabric softener to make them extra soft? My pets are fluffy and they are soft. They don't have the coarse hair. like some dogs do. But, yeah, I have soft pets. Why are you asking? I don't know. I was looking at our opener. Yeah, our show notes. Yes, our show notes. And I was like, I'm just trying to move things along. I didn't provide a lot of info. The question, dear listener, says, are we making our pets soft? So I assumed he meant via washing, but I'm taking it I'm misinterpreting. Last couple weeks we've been on a roll when it comes to our cold opener. This week I am positing the following question. Are we making our pets soft? Like, we're making our kids soft. Oh, you mean like weak. Weak, yes. You know, back in our day, Dennis, remember dogs? Yeah, I think I've seen one. They were loved, part of the family, but they never got quite the respect of a human. And I think probably fittingly, what have we done to our dogs? I just was eating lunch yesterday with my wife on our anniversary, 17 years. Love you, Nicole. Congratulations. Thank you. And we were eating there. And I shit you not. First off, what, what, what, what? I don't know, I turned to the doctor. What is up with restaurants now allowing dogs to eat? Like, why are people bringing dogs to restaurants to eat? Why is that a thing? Is this an insider restaurant? It was on the patio. Well, no one cares then. I do. It's still weird. No one eats out on the patio. You got your damn barking ass dog over here. Listen, eat out on the patio. I do that once a year. I do that when I go to TPF, only because everyone else wants to. The wind's blowing dirt in all your food and all your drinks and blowing your napkins. I don't want to get emails. It's not like I'm not a dog person. You aren't. Clearly. Can we have dog designated restaurants? they did can we not it's like smoking and non-smoking right outside is dog inside is non-dog alright so that's not that's not where I'm going with this except you're not going to suffer from second hand dogs someone brought their dog unless it bites you to said restaurant in a carriage a stroller what type of dog alright we need to know what type of dog it was a little bitch ass toy poodle like if that dog can't walk to the door it doesn't deserve to come into the human restaurant I was waiting for grandma to pull her teat out and breastfeed this dog. What are we doing with our dog? And the reason that it comes back to me is because our wife, our wife, my wife took our dog. We have expensive mutts. She took our dog to a specialist. Apparently, one of our dumb dogs has allergies. and we took it to the specialist we here's a mouse in my pocket nicole was kind enough to take our dog millie to a specialist an allergy specialist they only come into town every two weeks so i knew it was going to be expensive you know how much i had to pay for this damn special veterinary allergist to go over what was wrong with my dog twelve hundred dollars is that before or after your pet insurance no i write twelve hundred dollars they didn't do it they took blood work did they oh they didn't even do the little skin test where they make the little grid nicole was so pissed she's been on the list to see this stupid specialist and they forgot the kit and she was like that's the whole reason i'm here now we'll take blood work and then we'll let you know twelve hundred dollars and that's fine because the dog's itching all the time and stuff The problem is, since when did they start making dogs that are allergic to the fucking outdoors? That's the dumbest part of a dog. All right, but you have like a designer dog, right? You don't have like an expensive, stupid mutt that if I'm paying that much money to make a dog, shouldn't it at least be? I mean, it is hypoallergenic, but that bitch got it. It's to herself. The price is in itself is allergic to everything. Well, but I mean, you know, people have, because they've built indoor dogs now. They're not all working dog stock anymore. This is not the same. Dollars. They're designed to fit in your handbag. What I'm saying is, Dennis, back in our day, dogs didn't have allergies to grass and to pollen, the outdoors. Back in the day, I promise you, dogs did not have allergies. And if they did, that's shit. Just like none of them ever. 20 years ago, people didn't give a shit. People did not care if dogs had allergies. in them remember dogs used to only be outside like 20 years ago people didn't bring dogs in like tough shit fido yeah a dog never saw the inside of the house until 2003 remember how shaky dogs were when they came inside for the first time like oh shit what is this conditioned air that's that's fair we did have a growing up we did have a dog it would not you could not get it to come inside it was afraid to come in yeah because your dad had the belt at the door yes the That's why the dog didn't come in. Wearing his hands. The dog was like, you couldn't talk. You couldn't coach the dog in, did not want to be inside. It would go in its dog house. That's why dogs don't look you in the eye. They're afraid of getting beaten. I just, I'm waiting for one of my dogs to have like a gluten allergy next. So you have more than one dog? I have two, yeah. What, are these like Siths? Like, is there a master and an apprentice dog? Well, they were brothers and sisters. Oh, you told this. You were like, one is there to be friends with the other one. that's what that's why we bought two i just don't know why our kids are turning soft the dogs are turning soft this is all i don't know i can't i don't know i don't know if that's true or not i want my dog just start watching rambo movies or something like just a little hair on their just give the dog some allegra or something and move on i don't know what to tell you it doesn't work they've got shots and shit and special diets you can't you can't just like pop it half a claritin and say your problems are solved i promise you most of my family and the people i knew growing up. If a dog was like that, it would either have to figure it out or it would die. They'd kill it. People didn't kill it. If I told my grandpa, hey, your hound dog is going to need $1,200 to go to an allergist, he would say, just kill it. I'm just envisioning the new ending to Old Yeller where Old Yeller sneezes and you just hear the boy go, I'll do it, Ma. I'll do it. That's your version. This is very dark. All the dog owners out there are not going to forgive you for this. I can already feel the three-star reviews. I've softened up enough that I wouldn't kill him over it. But, like, they could have turned their teeth. Just wound him. Oh, man. I'm going to make you pay for that $1,200 vet bill. The dog's having to work the plow. I see you coming out there with your big old piece of wheat between your teeth. I need that back quarter acre done by this evening, Miller. Miller. That's another episode we'll talk about, my hatred towards cats. Don't get me started with those nasty-ass felines. Most evil thing there is, domestically speaking. Speaking of evil, do we have anything from Craig Bobby? That evil little bastard's hiding up in the wilderness. He's prepping for Expo a month early. Prepping, yes. He's got to get his allergy shots in. So we've got to do it alone, Dennis. Okay. Stern Pinball, not really in the news. They're always in the news because they're leaders. But production-wise, they're in the new factory. Things are rolling out fairly quick. Did you see all the footage of that new factory? Whoa, dude. Everybody's freaking out over this factory. It's so factory. It's like factory. Whoa. It's like got lines and people. I want to remind people that an empty building always looks larger than a filled building. Whoa. I think it's the use of the dark colors. They probably just They probably filmed it vertically That's why it looks Nobody cares Nobody cares about this factory Nobody cares about vertical filming The new factory looks cool I guess I guess Old factory New factory Schwamberg Elks Grove They're all the same That's right I'm not an ambi-builder Zach I'm not an ambi-builder new factory. Congratulations. Stern. I'm looking forward to like that big old, remember the rendered like showroom and shop. And that's what I'm looking forward to. Otherwise it just looks like the same Stern factory in a bigger building to me and whether or not they'll even need that much. Who knows this last week they were building Deadpool pros. Remember they bumped those up from October and they said, you know what? We're actually going to make them all right now. Yeah. How about that? Probably will not run them again until next year at some point, probably mid to late next year 2024 deadpool pro so i anticipate those selling fairly quickly through the distribution network and then drying up q1 if not sooner probably sooner i would say i don't know mark it's been kind of soft soft ish yeah it's been loosening up so yeah deadpool pros shipped last week probably some more still spitting out of the factory there uh this week Venom Pros, finally. Oh, people have been waiting. I mean, only like five people, but they've been waiting. They did start shipping them last Friday, Thursday, Friday. So ours are en route and should be here today. So the LEs should be coming up then. LEs should be mid-September. But we've seen like a week delay from the estimation on the Pros. So I would say LEs in two weeks if I had to guess. Two weeks they would start to ship. Because that's the one, you know, people want the more, that's where I think the excitement is on this title is the full feature set, not the pro. I do think so. And then the Venom Premium should be rolling out late September into October alongside October's run of Deadpool Premiums. So they didn't bump those up. Deadpool Premiums still coming in October as well as probably later that month small run of Foo Fighters Pro and Premium to ring in the Halloween week. Yes, because nothing says Halloween like Foo Fighters. That's why Spooky was so upset when Stern poached it from them. Well, the main character, to be fair, is wearing a mask. But aren't we all wearing masks? Oh, how about that? November has a big mask on. Like a mask that you would see with Nicole Kidman and Tom Antonio Cruz getting it on with an orgy full of people. I never saw that movie. You're not missing anything. Okay. Well, then maybe we need to go with the cheerier mask. Smoke it. I like when Tom Antonio Cruz is sacrificing his life instead of the stuntmans on his Mission Impossible films. That's where I want my Tom Antonio Cruz. I don't want to see a Tom Antonio Cruz wiener. I'm good. November has a big question mark on its mask because we still don't know what's going to happen there. Maybe some Godzilla premiums, but that doesn't account for everything. December, Godzilla premiums maybe still doesn't account for everything. Something's coming. I still think it's November. I don't think it's December. I think it's November. A vault or studio, something like that. late December into January. I think probably first week of January, we will see the new Cornerstone by Stern Pinball. That would make sense. I don't know. Elwynn's up. Oh, Jaws, you think? Elwynn's up. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. And I think timing-wise probably will make sense, too, from a sales perspective. What if they didn't get the rights to the Jaws song and it has to go like bum, bum, buh, bee, buh, buh, buh? I think that Jerry Thompson will figure it out. Just set up half a key. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Yeah, just bum, bum, bum. 2024, we're going to see the rest of the titles. Remember last call for Iron Maiden and Avengers Infinity Quest. That's it for Stern Pinball. I think that this Wednesday, we're going to see Flip N Out Pinball with Friends Joel streaming Venom Pro. Okay. So if you guys are interested in seeing that, you can tune in to Flip N Out Pinball on YouTube, and Joel will be there to go over it. He has some cool stuff in the works the next couple of weeks, talking to the likes of maybe a Brian Eddy, maybe a Dwight Sullivan, Ray Day. We may see them all. I want to try to get him a Venom Ellie or a Premium as soon as possible, too. I do hope so, because I did hear, I think it was on the Triple Drain Pinball podcast. He was very upset that he was only getting access to a free pro and clearly feels he's above that. As he was filing his fingernails, looking down. Jersey Jack Pinball, they have somebody new filing their fingernails over there. His name's Tom Capera. He was hired as the chief operating officer. They snagged him from Stern Pinball. Yeah, he used to file his nails over there. Yeah, with mechanical engineering tools, like a saw. Do engineers use saws? Like a hand saw? I mean, probably depends on the type of engineer, I would reckon. Your poor dad's rolling his eyes right now. He was electrical, so I don't think he did a lot of sawing. I'll just saw the circuit boards myself. They got him from Stern Pinball, and then, my apologies, Stern hired somebody weeks back as their mechanical engineering lead. This last week, some big news. Jersey Jack Pinball releasing the Godfather LE accessories. Did you get a chance to see any of these, Dennis? A little bit. A little bit. So is this – how is this going to play? This is – Maybe describe them first because it's like – it feels like it's like everything that was on the CE to me. Well – Except a different color. Yeah. I mean, it's awesome. Okay. Okay. All right. So that's – I was fair then. Yeah. Firm but fair. I like what they're doing in that people with the LE can now have the big lion, what a lot of people call gaudy, but the lion ornamental leg covers over the leg bolts. Remember those on the CE? As well as that applique or applique. I don't know how you pronounce that. As well as the lockdown bar. Remember that gold thing? But they have those now, but they're silver. So they're different. They also released a topper with a motorized gangster that interacts with gameplay. Now, a lot of you might be saying, isn't that what they did for the CE? Well, the CE, to be fair, had two. This just has one. And a car. Yeah, and a car. A car. So you get that. Down by the yard. Artblades, they're selling Artblades now. The horse had Shooter Rod, original. Yeah. You can buy that now, too. So a lot of things maybe on the CE. This seems like you can make your LE basically look like a CE. Is that good? A silver. CE. Well, then let's just go and dip it in gold. There's a lot of stuff that you get on the CE. I'm being facetious here. A lot of stuff you get on the CE that you cannot, will not get on your LE. Okay. I don't want the CE buyers to be upset. Here's what I was surprised about. They released this to dealers as a bundle. So behind the curtains, thank you. That's interesting. Yeah, are only, I think only able to buy these accessories as a bundle. So if I want the orc blades i'm also buying the the the leg covers the topper the the shooter rod it's one set that they sell to dealers okay and this might be i don't expect you have like solid statistics on this but this makes me curious with buyers be it you know jjp stern whatever that you've sold do you tend to sell customers all the accessories or do they usually only choose a few because i know i would definitely like looking at this like i'd get the horse head shooter rod but I would never get those lion leg covers. I love those leg covers. Do people tend to buy, if they buy accessories from you, do they tend to buy everything for the game, or do they tend to just buy a fraction? It is hard to know because I'd have to go back to see if they buy them all together at the same time or if they, in fact, buy them all but just at different timelines. I will say it's more popular for people to order just single items than they would the entirety of a package. Because I'm just wondering, like, because I could, in my, and again, I don't know if it's true or not. In my world, in my headcanon, I imagine a scenario where you end up having to buy a bunch of kits, but everyone wants the topper, and they buy the topper, and then you're stuck with the shooter rods or something, you know, and it's kind of like, okay, well. That's my concern is the dealer's like, well, because they encouraged us. They said, hey, here's the MSRP for the bundle. Here's your cost for the bundle. Sell them as a bundle if you'd like. Separate them. Sell them individually. whatever you want to do. It's nice that we have the option of selling them separate, but from a sales perspective, kind of tough to cut those up because if I'm selling Art Blades, which I have, then I've got a bundle without Art Blades that I have to separate. So it's interesting the way they're doing this. I think what works as a bundle is because price-wise, it was really cheap. Comparable to maybe Stern's accessories. I don't think I'm out of line saying this. Like, offering it for $1,500 for the entire bundle, like that topper alone, that's more than a $1,000 topper based on the industry standard at this point. Then those leg covers, those leg covers are, I would say, hundreds of dollars for those things. And then the shooter rods, usually $120, $150. So you're selling it as a bundle for $1,500. I think that's pretty damn fair of a price. if not cheaper than the industry standard. But it's just an interesting way to release and come out with accessories for a game here. There had to be a strategy or some benefits of them doing it this way. I don't know what they are, but it had to be. The other cool thing is that I think they're ready to ship. They're going to box them. Oh, that's nice. So instead of waiting months and pissing off everybody and being the bane of your existence as a company, they're ready to go, I think, this week. The real question here on the Internet has been, should CE buyers be upset about this? A lot of people saying, you know, that's what made the CE special. Now it's not as special anymore. Do you agree with that argument? Disagree? um you know what uh why not both it it does being a different color does clearly demarcate that it's not the same as the c so i don't think most people would actually get get confused per se but it does sort of feel like you took a bunch of stuff that was seen as exclusive to the ce and just done another version i saying the topper aside i think the topper was always known that they were going to do a topper and it was going to be like the like the ce but it was going to have the double coil gangster thing so uh yeah i i do get where they're coming from on it but they never made like a i mean it does look different just because it's not in the gold so it's not it it would be tough for me to be really sympathetic with someone saying like well it's exactly you know it's not the exact same stuff like like what happened with uh chicago gaming and the SE Plus of FCCR, where it was like, well, but you said the topper was just for the LE version, and then all of a sudden you come out with a new version. Yeah. Like, this isn't tacky like that. I'm with you. I think, why not both? Because for me, as a consumer, I knew they were going to make a topper. I knew they were going to make art blades. I knew they were going to make probably a shooter rod. So none of that surprised me in the least. Even as motorized and intricate and as nice as the topper is, versus a lot of just 2D plastic toppers that are pretty cheap coming out by Jersey Jack Pinball. So none of that surprises me. But if I am a CE owner I like hey what the hell Like those leg covers that kind of made the CE in my opinion It really did Now it still different though I'm with you. They're still silver. They still look different up against black than they do gold. It's still different. But the leg covers and that center button thing, that's kind of what pushed me over the like, okay, CE owners are going to be kind of pissed about this. And I've always kind of preferred the LE artwork. So the silver on this, for me personally, looks better than the gold on gold. I think it looks super sharp now. That might actually be a bigger thing. The CE people might get mad that they actually think this looks nicer. Yeah, it really looks sharp. So I'll have to see them in person. But I get it. I get it. The other angry mob on the Internet, just for anger's sake, said, you know what? Fuck you, Jersey Jack. Here you are selling us a $12,000 game that has tanked on the secondary market, and now you're going to try to charge us more money for shit? That's the argument. I don't understand that argument because it's like, well, they can if they want. They can sell accessories. It's not like they're drumming up accessories just because sales are low. That doesn't make any sense to me, so I don't see that argument. American Pinball, I wonder if they have accessories. Oh, yeah, lunchboxes. When are those coming out? I don't know that either. GTF! On the go! Lunchbox! Did you see straight down the middle of Flip N Out Pinball recently release a GTF LE gameplay video? I saw it in my video feed when I went to YouTube this morning. In between all your DC movie binges, you might watch it. I only saw it just before we started recording. I saw that it was there. And then I saw that it's in a weird format. Don't worry people, it's a quick one game. So you get a nice one game example. You don't have to watch two hours worth of gameplay. but I give you a two minute tutorial on basic gameplay what we're looking to do and I play a game and explain what I'm doing it's a lot of fun and for those of you with televisions and you want to pop some popcorn and sit on the old sofa with plastic wrap around your sofa you can do so but for those of you who are living in 2023 with your ex account but those of you who watch your videos tiktoky like vertical reels snapchatty right you're holding up your phone to watch these videos i would you know what i would venture to say that uh on straight down the middle or any any youtube series i would bet i well there's statistics for this act i'm just too lazy to pull them up probably 70 if not higher are watching them on their phones is that fair well i was going to ask if you had i don't know if you had tried to pull data from the the device try type to know if your channel sees that. The majority of YouTube video viewing is done on mobile. That's true. But I didn't know if your audience normally views that way or not. I didn't. Oh, you didn't do any analysis. Okay. I just thought, you know what would be cool is if you've always teased me. Oh, you know, pinball's never going to be on the main stage. It's oriented vertically, so you can't really film pinball great gameplay-wise because it's a 16 by 9 ratio. it just doesn't work, Zach. I've heard that. I thought, you know what? Why not do dedicated gameplay video film in a way that is actually oriented 916 so it fills up your entire mobile phone? You see the entirety of the play field right there at your fingertips, almost like the pinball arcade virtual stuff. It just fills up the whole screen, and then boom, green screen down there by the flippers is yours truly, as well as a hardline connection to audio and video down there too. So it's a 4K vertical format for GTF gameplay. And you know what? I think people need to look into this. This might be a thing. Maybe. I know what, while you remember mostly what I said, my issue has been the reason about the whole 16x9 thing is when you see the little vertical slice on your television, the problem is that the ball is too small to really follow. And I'm afraid that that's still true even in a proper vertical device that's as small as a phone. Maybe in a tablet it wouldn't be an issue, but I think with a phone it's just too small of a screen. You're going to be a din-din-downer. What? The video might do well. I might be wrong. It's 60 frames per second, so you can keep up with the ball. No one cares. There are going to be people that tell you they care. They can't see the difference. Actually, it might be 30. No, it is 60. See? No, there's less artifacting. There's less artifacting with the... I mean, that's impressive that you're able to shoot in 4K and 60, because most cameras I'm familiar with only will do 30 frames a second in 4K. Well, and then Joel was trying to... He's like, yeah, but take into consideration, Zach, if you're shooting, like, if you're encoding and doing all this 4K video, like, when you're even at 1080p, if you're doing 1080p, whenever you fit it to, like, the section horizontally, if you fit it to a section of a gameplay video, Like, it's even more concise because 4K is the whole screen. So if you're not using the whole screen for an overhead shot, then you don't have to have 4K in that overhead. I mean, you're just – So, yeah, I'm learning. But it was cool. And I'm a pinball pioneer. What can I say, Dennis? You could say nothing. American pinball. I need my royalty checks now. American pinball, they won't even see this damn video probably. I enjoy how you and possibly David Dennis, co-host of Super Bowl Chronicles, seem to have decided to try and make GTF a thing. It kind of reminds me of Joel before it came out. Joel was like that, too. In Triple Drain, they were like trying to make GTF a thing. I only try to make GTF a thing because it's actually a thing. It's fun. It's a good game. And people poo-poo it. It's got its issues, but I'm loving it. So go check that out on Straight Down the Middle or Flip N Out Pinball's YouTube channels. See if you like the feel. Comment. Let us know. Do you like the feel of that in your hand? Don't comment here. Comment on the video. Comment on the video. On YouTube, yeah. Don't email thepinballshow at gmail.com because I don't care. They could chime into our Discord, I guess, if they remember. Sure, Discord's fine. American Pinball's next game. When's that going to be? What's that going to be? How's that going to be? E-man. Ooh. Do you think it sees the light of 2023? No. I don't either. Maybe if the GTS had come out faster, but I've known people who've ordered them that have been waiting, so it seems a little slow. Yeah, we've got LEs in stock. See, part of me is like, maybe there's a bias, though. Do you think Dave Fix really rolls out into TPF with a new game, knowing that he's part of Chicago Pinball Expo? I don't see that either. Yeah, but a good point, Zach, but he can't. If the game's just not ready to be shown... That's funny. If the game's not ready to be shown, no company's really going to show it, are they? Well, I know it's happened before, Zach. But I think most people have... And maybe this isn't the turning point, but for me it was when Stern... And I know they had the reasons because of the illness with Adam West and stuff. But when they showed Batman 66 and had to rope it off, because it was a box of lights. I think that American Pinball knows if the game's just not right, if people can't play it, then they can't show it. So is it possible? Yeah, if he's got something that's put enough together. But this is Pinball. They don't do vertical slices like they do with video games for shows where it would be like, here, we're going to put together this multi-level demo. And those are incidentally really complicated to program. So programmers often hate doing vertical slice demos. but we don't do that in pinball. It either is far enough along that you would feel confident letting someone flip it or not. And if it's or not, maybe they reveal the title at Expo. Maybe they do a seminar. Maybe they show a box, you know, show the pin in some capacity. But no, I think it's a 2024 release. I agree with you. Speaking of rumors and what's coming next, a lot of people talking about Pokemon becoming a pinball game. Well, to be fair, there's already Pokemon Pinball. Video game Pokemon has been around for many games. Physical, mechanical, real pinball and Pokemon. Have you heard of this rumor? I mean, the Pokemon rumors floated for years. I think you and I owe it to our listeners to talk about that rumor because I might have a little bit of info about it. Also, whether or not you think it would sell well, do you think it's a good theme for pinball? all of that exclusively as a TPS member from Patreon. All you got to do is go to patreon.com slash the pinball show, sign up even at our lowest membership level and hear exclusive content, such as the Pokemon pinball rumor, as well as an invite to our private discord so that we can talk about that. Or you can jump up to our Nordman club membership level and get additional features such as choosing a topic, hanging out with us monthly on our live stream interactions or hangout. I usually drink and we'll talk about inside stuff. And those are a lot of fun. We just had one a couple weeks ago. Or jump up to our Screaming Goat Club membership. We'll get you that paywall polo. Become a member of the show. Get inside access, one-on-one conversations with Dennis and I on the actual dirt of the industry. The real deal. That's where the girth's at. But we're going to talk about Pokemon Pinball. But for now, let's talk about Spooky Pinball. Spooky Pinball, more new code for Scooby-Doo. It's like every week now. Yeah. I like what they're doing. They're streaming. They're showing new code. They're giving stuff away. They give a lot away. They're givers. Just like me. On this last live stream they did, we got a possible hint of an upcoming game from Spooky Pinball. People are talking because in the back of Bug was an animation rendition of the Scooby-Doo gang running away from Leatherface. Now, we know Leatherface from Texas Chainsaw Massacre, a horror film, a classic horror film, that sounds like it'd be right in the wheelhouse of a spooky pinball. And people argue he had to pull up a picture to put as his backdrop to something, and he chose that. Was that on purpose? Was that just a troll? was that completely random what are your thoughts well it's yeah i guess if i have to guess that it's probably sure why not yeah that's probably happening oh you heard a rumor i'm not sure spooky does troll i think that all their other little tease things like that in the past where they've like taken the dog to a pinball show their dog probably laden with allergies and they like gave it a scooby-doo blanket and it's like i'm not sure they do the troll thing right i think they more just like do little not so subtle hints so sure why not and as you know it is in their wheelhouse maybe you're becoming meta though maybe this is not sure i i think you are you're i mean it's possible i i don't know them well enough to know if their minds work that way or not it could be just part of the spooky verse we're just we're really familiar with like stern doing things like that but i i it's such a good fit and it doesn't seem like it would be a Difficult license to secure. I was going to say, I think it's probably capable of being sold. And in the realm of horror, it would be a very good pick. Definitely not like your first round of thought. People are going to think Friday the 13th and Halloween and stuff first. But as like a second round thought, I think Texas Chainsaw Massacre ends up there. Kind of like the hills have eyes and those sort. Do you think it's a large enough IP? I don't know. I don't think you do the size of the Scooby run, but wasn't there already a rumor or discussion or something? I think Nap Arcade covered a couple weeks ago. I can't remember too well, but that bug had on another stream kind of suggested that we were going to see something different in the sense of the run count on the next game. People might be surprised by it. Okay, but people might have thought bigger, but what if it's smaller, like Ultraman? And say, yeah, we're doing Texas Chainsaw 500. Okay. I can see that. And maybe they use that layout on a second game again, a la Ultraman Halloween. The old family guy Shrek. Yeah, because I was thinking it could be like an open run game saying, hey, we're not going to limit this next one. We're going to catalog it. We'll run as many as people want. But I could also see that, yeah, maybe doing a smaller, more – they'd almost have to for Texas, I think. I don't think Spooky, to date, is still comfortable with the idea of not hiding behind the false scarcity of the limited count. Okay. I know that technically TNA is not limited, and they can keep revisiting that well ad nauseum. But given how 2.0 didn't even sell out, I just don't see it. Not on the licensed stuff. We'll have to see. I like the theme, if done correctly. I'm always looking for actual horror based pinball machines and I think they integrated very well for Halloween if it's pure horror you don't go as high as you did with Scooby I don't think especially in the current climate had it been the pandemic maybe it would be different it's such a horror film it is dark there's nothing cute like a Freddy Krueger no there is a campy Texas Chainsaw. It's not the main one, though. It's one of the sequels. I don't think they touched the one from the 80s that was the campy one. I forget the name of it. I've seen it one time. It's really goofy. So, yeah. I think you have to do it like how they did Halloween. You just do it straight up. That's what the fans would want. And I think it can sell well, but I just don't think you'd do like 2,000 units. Even Michael Myers as a character is kind of... can be fun. What? Yeah. You're just making up stuff now. He's not. Again, it was only based off the first movie. You get the mask. It's very iconic. There's nothing cute about stitched skin to make a leather face. There's nothing cute about Michael Myers. Until you get to the one with one's post, almost reboot. I can't even remember the name of them anymore. When you get out of the whole weird cult thing, did they finally start injecting some humor? Like real humor. Not just the, oh, yeah, we're teens joking around before we get killed humor. No, it's not. Halloween is not. And Friday the 13th is weird because they didn't solidify on that whole masked hockey thing for like four episodes. It wasn't until like the fourth or fifth that they really got him to where he ended up kind of being the stereotype of Jason. Because, you know, he's not in the first one, really. And then I need to go back to Halloween and watch those. Well, I mean, gosh, once you get past two in particular, it gets super weird because they decide that his power is like coming from a cult or something. And it didn't work. It didn't work. There's a little girl in it who actually does, I think, some pretty good acting. So other than her, though, it's really just, I mean, it's gory because they're trying to compete with Friday the 13th at that point. And Friday the 13th was gory. But it was still better than The Flash. Oh, God, that movie. But that's why you see Halloween, too, has so much more blood than Halloween, because they were like, oh, wow. No, people really want like slasher style. They don't. They don't just want the stalking presence of fear. Get the hell away from there. So anyway, my point is, I don't I think Spooky's already shown that they have done horror straight up without it being cutesy. I don't I would never have described Halloween. Maybe you thought the three little adorable Michael Myers hiding behind three identical adorable shrubs was cute. But that's because that made no sense. You see everybody wearing the masks. What about pinball adventures? I think Don Knotts will have a mask this Halloween. What's the Don Knotts reference? I don't understand. The Punny Factory. Oh, but we aren't going to talk about Punny Factory. We're talking about elements. Elements. I wonder if the kineticist was contacted for his sound clip. Oh. You're a wizard. it's been a long week i'm ready for some football we be there pinball adventures is now taking pre-order money for elements a game that has not yet been shown and here's the kicker it is a non-refundable deposit i i'm having thoughts about this i just don't like i'm i'm not one of the ones that are you know pitchforks for non-refundable deposits i get that in a lot of situations what What is the point of a deposit if it is refundable, though? Amen. Preach. I mean, that sounds like a nothing in that case. Believe me. You either don't do deposits or you use deposits. I don't understand the idea. I know there have been people that have done refundable or deposits, but I don't get the purpose. Oh, my gosh. So many good reasons to use deposits. Okay. Sorry, I cut in. I apologize. Continue. Elements, who, you know, they said is coming out next. They're even going to have one at the Chicago Pinball Expo. but right now they're taking non-refundable deposits for this, which I don't understand. I don't get that. Why are you taking money before somebody can see the damn product they're buying? I always think that's a bad deal. Always. Bad. Bad manufacturer. I don't like it. I don't like it at all. You couldn't even convince me of liking it. Okay. Well, I'm not going to try. They have pictures of the cabinet. Even if it was Harry Potter. They have pictures of the cabinet. Even if it was Harry Potter, without showing the game, I don't think it's appropriate to take money from consumers without them knowing what they're getting. I understand, but, I mean, Spooky does it every time. But no, they still show it. After you have to already have locked in. That's what happened with Halloween and Ultraman. People had to commit before they saw gameplay. You're playing the play field. You should see what you're playing. I don't give a shit about cabinet art. Spooky pinball, they show the play field. Now, the gameplay itself, you're going to have to use your brain, but they show what's in the game. Okay, I see what you're saying. Your problem is just that you haven't seen a photo of the play field. The actual game, yes. But no one's going to rush to, like, this isn't going to sell out. Here's my question. Why do this, though? What do you mean? Why do elements? If I'm Pinball Adventures, why am I even doing this? I'm going to try to get as many customers as I can to support my young company. This either does nothing or it's negative. There's no positive that could possibly come out of this move, in my opinion, unless maybe it's to get people like us talking about it. I guess in that regard, that's worked. The only thing I can think of is if they've already felt that they're committed to what they're pricing it at. And since they've already decided the pricing, that they would go ahead and allow people who are interested solely off of the Captain Art, they have that opportunity. But with a 100-run unit plan from a company on an unlicensed title, I don't see how it sells 100, especially without showing the play field. So I don't know. Maybe – I see where you're coming from on it, and I personally do agree with you that this should have shown the picture of the play field. But I also think that we should be able to see clips of gameplay before games go on sale. I take it even a step further. I think that's the true gold standard. Okay. That's ideal for me. Yes. Gold standard for me. I'm not saying you have to do a live stream first. I'm just saying like something to give a sense of, you know, something with some motion. I mean, come on. Every phone has a camera in it now. It's not hard. The mCam. This, though, given what we do see with the design of the cabinet, I think it's going to be very polarizing. Really? Do you think anybody will actually like this then? I said polarizing. Yeah, suggesting that there's people that will like this. Well, the people who designed it must like it, so there's got to be someone who thinks that putting the display at the very top of the backbox made sense. I wonder how tall that thing is, if it's going to hit ceilings. You know, it does look really tall. But again, the backdrop is just like a black screen, so I have no sense of scale. Is it a DMD or is it an LCD screen? I If it's a DMD it doesn't make much sense to me If it's an LCD okay it's fine It's basically topper-esque So I'm fine with that I'm fine with how goofy and dumb it looks But what I'm not fine with is I just don't get it I don't understand why you take money without showing it Speaking of unknowns here Tilt Bob Pinball This new company This is the individual that made Elf The homebrew game Coming in doing their own original thing called Road Trip And I've seen this on Nap Arcade You can go there, naparcade.org, for some pictures, some sneak peek pictures of Road Trip. I didn't know if you've seen this yet. I have, yes. Okay. So we have some sneak peek at the art and things like that. Honestly, if Tilt Bob was saying take money, I wouldn't like this either. And hell, at least we could see the flippers. Yeah, well, I mean the photo, the main photo currently up doesn't have most of the hardware other than that, though. So for me, this is DOA as well. I'm sad to even talk about it. I don't get it. Maybe I'm just being crusty this week. You are a little bit, but... You can make this kind of game for yourself. Why try to make this type of game for anyone else to pay for? Who's going to buy this game? You can have Franchi artwork on it. That would help. But the artwork is like GPT saying hey make shitty roads Like I don get it I just don understand any of this Make it off the old road trip themed Tom Green film. Give me that. Oh, my gosh. Give me that, man. Dude, where's my car got? Give me that over this. The hell? Tell Bob. The hell? You go from elf to this? what is going on see this is this this is a fair point zach and i know we've talked about it i feel like excessively but hey it's happening again it's the same it's same thing that applies with elements and punny factory and all the rest you know i and and and galactic tank force which as you note is a game that you find quite fun but it's struggling struggling to sell and we know why still apples and oranges man no that no that's an original theme that makes sense on so many levels do not move units anymore from a company that has already produced three or four games prior to with an iconic designer which is why they have and will sell more than this or elements so no that is a different tier that is like a medieval madness compared to tilt bob's road trip and Pinball Adventures. You don't know how Road Trip plays. That's true. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen Elements either. But they're not taking a deposit. You must not be mad at Tilt Bob. I didn't see anything about deposit or pricing even being available. Just letting you have a little sneak peek. If I'm making a pinball machine and it's Road Trip and it's that bad, I'm not going to show it to anybody. If anything, I'm embarrassed of it. I'm just playing it at my house. Why are we sneak peeking stuff like this? Maybe it shoots awesome. and we'll take a cheese grater to the art. Look, I don't know the thing with hype. I don't know why they revealed this early. I don't understand. So worked up. I don't see why you'd get worked up. It's just not going to move units. So, I mean, that was their choice. I still highly, unless somehow you are in a position to seriously be able to drop a machine at significantly lower pricing than a Stern Pro, there's no good reason to really go with the unlicensed theme, in my opinion. And going back to Pinball Adventures, that's the issue. I think I had an email once from the owner about the pricing and noted that the pricing was basically the same as Stern Pro. It's like, yeah, but that's Stern, and it's a licensed game. The problem isn't whether or not your game even plays well. The problem is going to be very many people are going to be able to try it, and you don't have a license to move the units. and the same thing's going to happen to road trip the thing with road trip is i almost feel and this is probably unfair but like it's trying to capitalize on oh hey you remember road show and and other things like this feels like a theme that pinball already did and so they're doing an unlicensed theme trying to make you think about all those wms games you like that did the same thing but i don't think it'll work i don't think that's going to resonate you asked about like Like who's this for? Or maybe you didn't. Maybe I asked that in my head. I'll ask it. Who is this for? I'll tell you who I think it is. And there is a type of buyer, or at least there used to be like this. There are probably still a few out there. But they're the sort that lost all the money on all those other stories. Okay, that sounded mean too. But what I mean is there's a certain personality type that feels very, very compelled to support the little guy. and they want to buy the games of the startups. They feel almost like they're doing something really moral when they do that, when they help little startup companies succeed. That's what these games – I'm assuming the owners know that there's a type probably out there that thinks that way. So they can win over their wallets. Maybe that's what they can do to start building things up and being successful. And they look at how some other companies have gone and perhaps think they could pull it off. Like, hey, American Pinball with Houdini. Houdini was unlicensed. It got a lot of attention. Maybe they could be the next American Pinball if just enough people will believe in them and maybe doing the – they go online. You see Pinside all the time. You go, well, let's throw Pinside under the bus a little bit, but not too hard because I don't want to get another thread made about me talking about how I don't like Pinside. but what i mean by that is you always see on pin side all these people coming out saying how they they bemoan all these licenses and how we need original themes just like williams used to do now they don't ever actually end up buying them but they say it all the time and i think sometimes people think there must be a market right they keep saying it that there's always something else that happens it runs into the well because what ends up happening is that i do think they actually do believe it but what happens is they see this and then they go no that's a chat gpt drawn road i that's not what i meant but if these people i wanted a ranchi road these the same kind of people that find money to do it like there's i can see people believing stuff like this but those aren't usually the people successful enough to have money for the i just the only thing that fixes this for me is if breckenmeyer does the voiceover he does the call outs what the fuck happened there's a lot i don't know there's a lot of stuff i don't know i didn't like i on paper it didn't make sense for why robert mueller wanted to make a pinball company and then wouldn't put a game out and then every the house of cards fell and that being just separate from that like all those weird delays with what was thought at the time sizable money behind the project was still the same sort of decisions you know unlicensed stuff with promises like five years down the line there'd be goonies you know weird just weird to me weird we're just like almost like well as you noted like the the whole kind of the feel like it's a homebrew that they've decided that they should get to sell it yeah but when you're homebrewing as you as you noted like with elf when you're homebrewing you can do a licensed thing it doesn't matter because it's just for you like there's no commercial risk because I mean, a company might try and C&D you, but technically, if you're doing something for yourself, you can do whatever you want. Stick Mickey Mouse wherever you want. But once they want to make money out of it and they can't do those things that trigger the nostalgia and the fondness, you do road trips. I think an original theme like Galactic Tank Force GTF is about as close to workable as we're going to find. Probably as close to a working original theme dating back to Cactus Canyon in 99. Oh, snap. I truly believe that. I'm not saying that an original theme. I think it's better than Black Knight, Sword of Rage. It's moot. It's a different environment is why that's moot. Can a company do original themes? Sure. It's better for them if they're already established. And American Pinball is, as you've noted. So it is a different level. I don't mean to say they're on the same playing tier. But you know very well as a distributor that that game doesn't sell itself the way that Foo Fighters could sell itself, even if Foo Fighters has not been good. 1,000%. And that's just the thing that boggles my mind. It's like – it's almost a vibe to me that people – and I sympathize more with these more startup types because they're new at it than a company like American, which has been making games for a while. I would even admit that GTF, the sales that have been there for GTF, they came primarily, I'd say 80%, because of the way the game looked. I truly believe that. Now it's going to take gameplay and it's going to take code and stuff to convince people to actually buy the game. But I think the 80% of the sales came from the look of that game. Yeah, I don't know. I won't make an assumption. You could very well be correct. I'm not saying I'm not disagreeing or agreeing. I just I don't have any context for it. My whole point is simply that I think a lot of these companies, especially the startups, but I think it's still like in my bones. And again, this may be wrong, but my bones, Zach, tell me is the same for American Pinball. There's almost this intimidation about they just don't want to deal with licensing like, oh, it's confused. I think with startups is like it's going to cost money and it's confusing and we aren't lawyers and we don't know how to do it. And and so they just don't. And then with a company like American Pinball, maybe it's more like that belief of we need the freedom. Like imagine how handcuffed franchise art would be if it had been licensed. And imagine us having to – I mean look at what happened with James Bond and Stern and how it just seemed like the licensor was dragging their feet on everything, on every approval and why the code is so slow. And it seems like it's the licensor, or at least that's what a lot of us are blaming. It's the storm of Dave Fix and Dennis Nordman put together making decisions. Anyway. That's why you can original. I don't know. I don't know what's going on with it. Anyway. Pinball Brothers is smart enough not to do an original theme. That's right. I did notice. I just wanted to bring this up because I thought it was so damn cool. They came out with this code update, like 2.0 for Queen, right? Which I cannot wait to play this more because of things like this. So they're still amping up all of these updates. And who is it? Ferret? Is Ferret still on code? I think he's still doing code for this kind of thing. So we know. Is he? I think. Because he codes for AP also, right? Yeah, yeah, I think he does. Oh, so he does both. Yeah, I think he's just a contract for. But they did this code update 2.0 when they had this Bohemian Rhapsody, this multi-stage mode that looks freaking awesome and amazing. But I noted, they didn't even mention it, but I saw on the video that for this, like each song is a different mode and they're very unique. But the song, I Want to Break Free, one of the objectives, if I'm interpreting this correctly from that video is to flip, double flip the flipper buttons to the beats of that song, to the beats of that music and that will enable lighting different instruments, so it's merely an objective or a task of that mode and the reason I brought it up is because number one, why are you not advertising that because that's freaking cool, number two have you ever played a pinball or owned a and this is for listeners too, owned a band or music based pinball machine and find yourself using those flippers as instruments. Because I got to tell you, Dennis, when I owned TNA, when I owned ACDC, every single time I'm sitting there not even plunging the ball because I'm and I'm flipping my flippers to the, because it's mechanical. So I'm flipping them to the sounds of the song. And here they're going all in. They're saying, yeah, let's do a Dance Dance Revolution guitar hero thing for this particular mode. I think that is genius. Isn't there some P3 game that does this too? Yeah, but that's something nobody wanted. I don't even think the P3 owners even know the name of that game. What was that game's name? I'm sorry, Nick. I think it was one of your games. I don't remember which one either. That should have the foot pad. So the script of a Necrodancer sort of thing going on here. I want to break one of these open. I still am so close to opening up one of these queens. Talk me out of it. Talk me into it. No, I don't care. Speaking of talking me out of it, Multimorphic in the news. Do you know there is a Weird Al Ellie en route to flipping out pinball? Say what? Wow. Holy shit. Well, you do like Weird Al. I mean, the guy. I don't know if you liked the game. I don't know if you liked the game. Did you play the game? It's fine. I played it at – I don't have enough time on it, but I played it at Texas. And where else did I play that? It's fine. Nothing. But I'm taking one in on trade. So I thought we might be able to do some fun things with that. Hear that, Jerry? They can return my messages if I say, hey, team up and do something with this. Are you still leaving messages? No. I don't know. I'm trying to think of the last time I messaged you. Oh, it was for the Pinball Awards, so that was fine. No, it was good. I think you got – I don't even know if you got them, but whatever. You shipped them out a couple weeks ago, surely, by now. Yeah, who knows. So they're in the news, Multimorphic P3, because they're essentially, over the last week or two, came and went, but they've relaunched Final Resistance, the Scott Danesi game. Yes, yeah. Played that at TPF. You liked it? Yeah, I did. I mean, it was like, I like that it took some of the things that I struggle with, with the direction that P3 goes because of the screen and basically solved those. So in some ways, it's, you know, I've wondered how, I mean, obviously they're open to all sorts of projects. You know, we talked about like rhythm game style and stuff and this as well. But it's sort of interesting because I always felt like the big emphasis from the company had been about the screen and the ability to display these animations and stuff. And then Scott basically made it a regular play field and used the screen aspect for certain little effects but kept it very, very static. And I've heard others respond very well to that. But obviously, that's not what I think the initial vision was. but anyway it was a fun game but it's not a it wouldn't be a game that would get me into the platform if that makes sense they're relaunching it so you're seeing them pop up doing loser kid interviews other media pushes I think NAP Arcade has some stuff out it's smart I think it's because they've just started to ship them and I mean they launched it and TPF makes sense obviously because Multimorphic's based in Texas but that was a crowded field of a lot of other games that actually shipped so I think it's smart as well. Are they ready to ship, though, if you said, hey, I want to buy a Final Resistance right now? And they don't have the platform? All right. Oh, well, honestly, I don't know. They only play Final Resistance if you have the game platform. I haven't read and updated them. I'm not saying they haven't done an update. I just haven't read an update on them in months. But it had always been. It seemed like the production on the modules is going at a pretty good pace. But if you needed the platform, that's where the big weights have been. That's been my sense. Yeah. Okay. But I don't know. Well, I'm going to have more time on one. You know what? I'm genuinely excited about getting some more time on the P3 system. So I'll probably selfishly keep it for a week or so before I list it for sale. So we'll see. Hopefully I have it this week or next. Haggis Pinball. They're still on course. We had an update from Damien. Still on course for Fathom Revisited Games. Being finished at the end of the year. Then on to Centaur Revisited. And speaking of updates, Chicago Gaming Company. No fucking update in sight. What are they doing? Who knows? I've got to be nice this episode. You do sell them, so you have to be nice. It's the $1,200 bill for a dog's allergist. It's got me rubbing me raw. Oh, Dennis, get in my crawl. CGC, what the fuck are you doing? You're still making Cactus Canions. I love you guys, but for mother's sake, where are the Pulp Fictions? Stop making SE pluses. We're good. We are good. I speak for all the dealers and the community when I say, we're good. Make the rest of the LEs and move on. Better yet, if you don't have what it takes to make the LEs right now, move on to Pulp Fiction SE. Damn. At this point, poor people are waiting for their LEs, and they're like, I know it's nonrefundable, Zach, but damn. I'm like, I honestly can't even blame you. At this point, I like those Rush Expression lighting kits and toppers. Hmm. But look at that big factory. I'd like to thank some people, Dennis. Yay. I'd like to thank some people for joining us as the official Screaming Goat Club membership on Patreon for the pinball show. That was a little wordy, wasn't it? Who do you want to thank first, Dennis? We should thank our shaker motor, David. Thanks, Dave. and shake your way to, hopefully, to Expo or Cincinnati this year or TPF. We'll see you there. We've got to thank Colin. We already brought him up once. He took his baby. He took his baby to Pentastic, I believe. He's probably just hoping that I was there. Why? So you'd sign its forehead? There you go, baby. It's a Sharpie. It's not going to leave for a while. Would you sign a baby's forehead? No. I might. I really might. What if it's got an allergy to the Sharpie ink? That's their parents. I don't know of allergies, so I don't know. Do they make skin-sensitive Sharpies? This soft-ass culture we live in, I guarantee you they do. Back in my day, Sharpie ink had lead in it. Built character. Back in my day, Sharpies for foreheads were called tattoos. We had McDonald's cups with embedded lead in them. That's how badass we were. And I still have those cups, and I drink from them happily. I make my children drink from them. That's right. Asbestos my ass. I would sign a baby's forehead. I would totally do it. I'd even pull its forehead tight so I could get a good signature without it wiggling. Hold tight, baby. Thank you, Colin. The panther. Oh, sweet, sweet little panther, you. Thank you so much for the support. Jablonski. Oh, man, I almost watched that most recent Transformers film last week. Almost watched it? It was cool. But you just decided instead you had to see Flash? No, my son actually brought it up. Little Fletcher was like, let's watch Transformers. And I was like, awesome. And then we were having lunch, and I explained to him, you know, oh, you haven't seen any of the other Transformers. And once he – he's very particular. So once he realized he had not seen the other ones, he didn't know it was a series. He just wants to watch the grown-up Transformers. He's seven. So once he realized that, he did not want to go out of order. So I was like, okay, well, let's start with the Shia LaBeouf one. That's fine with that. And we'll move our way up. And he was like, he didn't want to do it. Did you possibly take him to Oppenheimer? And then he's like, why are we at Oppenheimer, Daddy? and you're like, well, you're going to keep promises. Look, that was one of my biggest regrets probably in life is not seeing that in IMAX. Now it's gone. I can't. I'll never be able to see it again. Maybe if it's up for some Academy Awards, they might re-air it at IMAX in theaters. They've done that before. They've done that before. But I don't even want to watch it now because I haven't seen IMAX. Yeah. It upset me so much I didn't watch it either. Hey, Bobcat. Who are you at, you son of a bitch? Thank you Hopefully we'll see the Bobcat at a show I hung out with the Bobcat At TPF we went to a Mavs game Hell yeah Joe Fox I don't even know if he listens anymore Love you Foxy Thank you And Charlie Bell Oh oh Charlie Bell Well ding your dong Thank you Charlie I about forgot Frank It's probably because of that screech Thank you Frank Frank your ass better be at Expo Or an upcoming show too I'm telling all these people to go and then I don't end up going Yeah that would be really mean actually I still want to go to Pentastic just for the baby You could have hung out with David Dennis That's probably why I didn't go What is up with David Dennis He is such a freaking noob I don't even care if he's been in this hobby as long as he has. He still doesn't get his card because his dumbass messaged us during Pentastic telling us his takes on shit that's like two years old. He's like, oh, look at this galactic tape for you. That is true. I'm like, dude, wake up, man. You make content. If you make content, you can't act like. And he's like, whoa, I should have got this game over James Bond. Yeah, like, you can't act like the James Bond topper is a new thing. Like, fuck off. Yeah, I can't believe it's James Bond topper. I know. Like, stop giving us your cold takes, man. Yeah. Shit. Cold takes. Cold takes with David Dennis. Yeah, that would be a great segment to act. And then it made me realize, well, no wonder this guy is doing a history podcast. It's all news to him. It's all history. Shit. We love you, Double D. Most of the time. Oh, thanks for all those in Discord that are hanging out. Jeff asks, bringing up weird shit. I love it. So make sure to go to patreon.com slash the pinball show. Dennis, they should go there. They should sign up because it helps support us. And I want to see who's going to be the next nickname screaming go club member or the Nordman level or the official member of $10 a month. Do it. And, hey, you know what time it is. I think people should support us because it's the Twippies award season year. You know that time from September to January where we get verbally assaulted and horrible shit is said about us with no provocation? We have to deal with that every damn year. So support us. You don't have to support us with your vote because we could fucking care less. But maybe just support us with Patreon because we've got to put up with so much shit from September to March. Oh, I fucking dread it every year, Dennis. It's already started. I just sort of tune out of it. It's already started. It's like the single most thing that makes me want to quit media. I don't. Award season. Yeah, that's all. I like awards. I like giving awards. It's fun to give them out. I like giving gifts back That why I worked on the pinball awards I like awards I just don like being berated because of them I don I like campaigning for them and stuff It just seems weird. It's like running for office. I know. It's weird. I still want to do it. It doesn't feel right. Every year I just want to wave a white flag and be like, hey, is there any way that I just say don't vote for us and you just not be mean to me? Could we ask to – hey, I don't – I didn't even – I don't know. Could we ask to not be listed? No, we've already tried. We can't. Not an option. Believe me. Tried for the last two, three years. All your votes go to the mean people. That's fine with me. Just stop being mean. Oh, I just want people to be nice, Dennis. Nice like market trends? There's nothing nicer on the market than pinball market trends. No, let's see. That calls for the loon. I just want people to be nice, Dennis. Why do people out there have to be dickheads? Have we canceled that word yet? Dickhead? I don't know. Maybe that's an okay thing to say. Hey, people are being mean out there. Don't be a dickhead. You know what's not a dickhead? I've said it four times in a row. Another three-star review. Here we go. Something that's never mean. And it's always a highlight to everyone's Fortnite. Something that puts little children to bed at night with lead ink bleeding into their foreheads. It's none other than PIMBA! Market Trends. It's a Bobcat of techno, Lord. Speaking of Pokemon evolving, you guys missed that if you're not a member. You can go back and listen to that. We talked about the evolution characters and how that can be put in the pinball. That's good stuff. But we're in Market Trends, the free segment here on the Pinball Show. And trending out this week, Dennis Creasel, is football, baby. Oh, enjoy it while you can. Oh, football. Now, you're a football fan. You watch the Chiefs, right? Yep. Our condolences last week for you. Yes. That was tough. We can just move right along. Give me flashbacks to GTF. Move right along. You can't handle the scoop. Training up is football. Game Clover. It's training up in a big way because that's where my mind is. That's why I want to get off this podcast right now and prep my fans' football lineup. Oh, well. Football. Hurry up. Get through this market trend part. No one really cares about it anyway. The reason why I say enjoy it while you can, listeners, because if you enjoy football, specifically the NFL like I do, enjoy it while you can because this is our form of Roman gladiators, and this shit's going to be canceled within the next 10 years. So enjoy it while you can because not only are our children soft, not only are our dogs soft with allergies, pretty soon our sports are going to be soft. Moshi is what our sports are going to be. There are a lot of traumatic brain injuries. And God bless him, I get it And it is very unhealthy I wasn't allowed to play football I wanted to as a kid But that was the concern I would sustain a head injury and it would be permanent For the sake of entertainment I think we should let some things go Oh my gosh At this point You know what you're signing up for Right? We're not holding you against your will Like the Romans did the compensation if you make it high enough up. All I'm saying is we need our football. Don't fuck with our football, people. Enjoy it while you can. I know I will. All's turning up this week is Stern Pinball's Lord of the Rings. It has to. Everything else is like softening and Gandalf the Grey is hard as a rock. Fly, you fools. This game is still 10K and north of 10K for really nice examples. You're starting to see a group of games that we're going to talk about in a future episode. There are some games that just continue to hold strong regardless of whatever the market does. They just hold strong because they are like the iconic pinball machines of our hobby. And one of them is very much Lord of the Rings. It does some of the best things in pinball. And that's the one, if they ever vaulted, that's the one that I would be most, even over Ghostbusters, be most inclined and interested in is Lord of the Rings. Me too. It's close to perfection in many ways, and the things that it doesn't check the box for in 2023 could easily be checked with our technology. Also trending up this week is the trade. Hashtag the trade. You've heard of the move. Have you heard of the trade? No. The trade is trending up because that's what people are wanting to do. when the market softens instead of people stop buying things they're still moving games they're just doing so by different means such as the trade a lot of people trading a lot of dealers trading things this is a good thing there's nothing wrong with the trade you can get rid of something and not have to list something have weirdos come into your play just trade it to a dealer boom done here comes a new game toot toot don't look down on the trade do you like the trade dennis do you trade minigames or would you rather sell have two purchases kind of thing? No, I'm good with trades, but that's not something I've done in pinball. Okay. Wait a minute. What have you been trading? Oh, I trade in watches. Oh, I see. No, I trade in watches. What about monocles? No, I don't have a monocle. What are you going for for Halloween this year? Sadness. treating down this week is did you did you see the super mario uh brothers movie the new one the cartoon one with chris pratt absolutely and then you guys dog you guys are you are missing so hard on egp lately i i want to be that little flame thing that is amazing me and my son love that flame thing that's right i've seen the shirts they have shirts i was talking about the only point of release will be the great void. That's what I want to be. Where is that thing in the universe? I asked some people that like play Nintendo stuff and someone thought maybe it was based off of something out of Mario Galaxy. I thought it could be based on like that. So I don't know. The twinkles or twinker. Yeah. Something kind of thing. I don't know. But it is greatness. That could be sweet. Release of death. Yeah. They could have a spinoff of that character. Do you think the character could really carry or is it going to be like Boba Fett where it's just crap when it's trying to carry its own thing? I don't know. It might just be a side character. Don't force this. I'd rather see that than a Yoshi movie, to be honest. Don't force Glee into his little blue flame heart. That's not what it's meant to be. Turning down is definitely not that thing, but you should go. If I had a pinball Halloween party, I would expect you there as that thing. I bet I could do it with blue LEDs. Training down this week is Foo Fighters L.E. No! No. One of the greatest games on the market right now. People still love it. They collect it. It's still down, though. A softening market. This thing is at $11,000. For Foo Fighters L.E., they're $13,000 new. They sold a lot of games in total. That's a bomb. Obviously, the L.E.'s capped, sure. That just goes to show you what may happen to even some of the most loved games. I would argue that to hold value, games are going to have to check a lot of boxes, though, moving forward. Unless we get into another boom period. But moving forward, Foo Fighters itself, even though it shoots like, oh my god, maybe one of the best shooting games of all time. The art is phenomenal, but it's still a theme that's eh. I think to hold value, there's going to have to be four of those five checked boxes. And I guess it's not there. Numbers don't lie. I only report the pricing. I was going to ask you a question because we need more side tangents. Do you enjoy what you do more that we are no longer in the boom period because you actually have to work for it or less because it was free money when it was the boom period? I would say, truthfully, I enjoy my job more now. I thought so, actually. Because it's so stressful during that boom because you can't get stuff. I remember, and I remember, the listeners may not know this, but I, of course, I knew. Pepperidge Farm, man. Well, the frustration, you do all these things, you know, promotion, getting the name out there, and it's kind of like, I just remember the venting of the, it doesn't really matter, Dennis. I only have X amount of gains I can sell, and I sell them all no matter what I do. So it's like, how can we grow as a business? How can we differentiate ourselves when everyone's just desperate to get anything? Well, and people have to remember, that's a great question, because people have to remember as well, listener that during those times a lot of those times uh the the products were more scarce to receive so even if like now i can get a lot more products of course because games can be easily made compared to the pandemic times i might even what people perceived as a softer market now i may still be able to move more games than i was in the boom because i just couldn't get product so So, yeah, I enjoy it. It's a lot less stressful now. But there's more caution that you have to take. And it takes more skill now as a business owner of knowing what to order, what to not order so much. And that's where I wondered, given that, especially given your career path where you moved from a very skill-based profession into sales. That's interesting. But, yeah, I agree. Like my wife would be like, you're an idiot. What are you talking? But, yeah, I like there to be some actual talent needed and some work ethic, and I get more purpose from that. So, yeah, interesting. Okay, tangent over. I was just curious. All trending down this week is not only original themes. We've talked about that. I'm not going to kick a dead mule. Yeah, just rewind like 20 minutes and you can hear that. If it was kicking a dead horse, that would be an actual IP. I think the mule is the original theme version of a horse. I'm not going to kick a dead mule. Turning down, how about original companies? Original companies. This is what I'm talking about. We talked about it. I ranted about this earlier. Turning down is original companies. Look, people, if nobody knows of you and you haven't really made any products yet, why are you teasing anything? Your job is not to tease anything. I'm so sick and tired of even like emails. Oh, Magic Melvin Merlin's got some pictures. Look, your marketing, your initial marketing should be the product. itself worry about teasing once you're established onto your second product we don't give a shit until you show us what you've got that is your marketing shut up don't say anything until your product is ready to launch otherwise you are burning through your potential sales with all of this little bullshit that you think is cute it's it's stupid it's a dumb business strategy I don't know why I'm angry. I kind of know. Trending down as original companies. Okay, I wasn't sure where you were going initially until you started actually describing it. Just make the game. Yeah. That's it. You know what? Yeah. I mean, I can't speak for how everyone manages it. We've gotten some interesting messages over at Eclectic Gamers Podcast at gmail.com. I just delete them. Yeah. I won't. I won't cover it. Well, you don't check the pinball shows emails, but we get those. No, I saw it came in there too. And it's not just – but it is like I've met the guy at Tilt Bob. He's an awesome dude. I like him. He's good. But it's like that too. Like just stop advertising stuff. Just make the damn game. It's like elements. Same kind of thing. Show the game. Make the game. If it's great, then we'll start supporting it. Then you can start teasing that stuff. Otherwise, who cares? I'm more, probably because I'm less business-focused. That's not my – I don't work in the pinball field selling anything. But for me, it's more – I don't like the mystery stuff. Like when Turner Pinball came out, for example, and they were doing the riddle thing to decode, and Pinside was trying to decode what all was happening. I mean, I'm okay if you want to do that, but I don't want you to email it to me. I'm not going to try and figure it out. I don't care about your mystery because I don't care about your company. because I don't know anything about it. Once you've earned your pinball card, I'm fine with Stern doing stuff like that or Spooky showing the underside of a play field. That stuff is fun. But if you haven't established yourself, then why should we take you for real? And this is not to say during pinball market trends, because it's all positive here, right? We're not doing pinball media market trends anymore. This is not to say that elements won't be the greatest game ever made. I'm not saying that. It could be. But damn it, until you show it and have it and people experience it and we know what you're really truly made of, then just stop. Alright, man, I don't want to end the note. Pinball market trends on a negative. So let's save people a buck or two. Deal of the week! Buy, buy, buy! Deal of the week this week. Dennis is an Avengers LE that we have. It's got full power codes. It's got topper. It's got extras in it. I've got custom mods that I had done on that damn thing. I'm going to take $500 off of it. Again, reducing it again. Now $11,999. Buy, buy, buy! For an LE. Top of the line LE. Avengers. It's an Elwin with a topper. So save $500 now, and we'll ship it to you, too. And as always, I'm just here to report the facts because numbers don't lie. Neither do I. On Pinball Market Trends. Show me what you got. It's like somebody entering into the porn industry and being like, I promise you I got a big wiener. I'm telling you, I'll just tease part of the wrinkle here. No. No. Just show it. I don't know why. Let me see. Dennis, where can people catch it? I don't even remember anymore. You got a pocket monster you want to show people? You don't even want to say the EGP email at this point. No. You don't need to reach out to me this week, I think. The Pinball Show at gmail.com is where you can email us. You can also check us out on Facebook, TikTok. You can jump into Discord as an official member. you get official membership status by going to patreon.com slash the pinball show sign up and follow watch subscribe to sdtm straight down the middle on youtube we've got a new vertical 4k gtf gameplay video up sweeping the industry by storm if it was a this or that maybe people would watch it oh man we're gonna find a way to vertically orient this or that oh just wait i'm gonna be working on getting some reels out of that gtf gameplay here soon i hate reels you I do reels and Instagram. You've got to have a social media manager to do anything anymore. It sucks. Sign up, follow, watch, straight down the middle. And our sponsor of the pinball show is always Flip N Out Pinball. When I buy my pinball, shit, I buy from Flip N Out Pinball. From toppers or play studios, I've got it figured out. Flip N Out Pinball, figured out. When I take a pinball, I think Flip N Out Pinball. Flip N Out Pinball, figured out. When I buy, buy, buy, I buy from Flip N Out Pinball. Buy, buy, buy. Product showcase this week is a Venom Pro from Stern Pinball. Not only because they're shipping now, we have extra spots. I think my extra spots of Venom Pros should be shipping later this week into next. So we can get you one still. We also have Venom Premium and LE spots available towards the rest of the month here. Galactic Tank Force LEs in stock. Jurassic Park 30th Anniversaries. I still have two more of those. I got some really special numbered ones, though, Dennis. A little premium on them. You know, like number 420. And number 2. Number 2. Who does number 2 work for? Who does number 2 work for? Number 2. Avengers Toppers, Avengers LE, and Premium Games. I have those pre-owned as well as new Premium and Pro games. Whirlwind Restored. Ready to go. Cactus Cane SE+. I've got one last spot of the Mermaid Edition Fathom Revisited. We have Hot Wheels Classics in stock. Queen, Rhapsody Edition, that's the LE version, James Bond Pro and Premiums, Foo Fighters Pro and Premiums, we even have a premium used game, Iron Maiden Pro and Premium, Jurassic Park Pro and Premium, I do have an Iron Maiden Premium used as well as a Jurassic Park Premium used, Turtles Premium, The Godfather, LE, new and used, as well as One Last CE in stock, ready to go, home edition games like Jurassic Park, Star Wars, Toy Stories, Ultramans, Halloweens, accessories accessory bundles you name it hopefully we have it bye bye bye flipping out with friends this week with Joel he's going to be playing Venom the pro version go to YouTube right now and follow Flipping Out Pinball you can be ready for that TPN last week not a lot going on no bro afloat from Silver Ball Chronicles what came out podcast wise since our last episode looks like only Silver Ball Chronicles but it was a good one. It was the bro of flow, Mr. John Borg himself. Numbers don't lie on that one. Ooh, numbers high on that episode. Nicely. Well, as you learned from Pentastic, David Dennis doesn't know a lot, but he knows history. Shout out to Ron Hallett. Love you, Ron. Just don't hug me. Did you see that David brought him maple cookies? Oh, I didn't see that. Oh, I think he shared it on the Silver Ball Chronicles Discord because they have a Patreon as well. Wow. Yeah, I don't know why you didn't give him ketchup potato chips, because that's what I got. Shitty chips. I got potato chips. I couldn't even pawn that shit off my kids. Really? Yeah. Not even Fletcher? Nope. Yep, he's picky. TP in this week? I don't know. It's going to be a good time. Come hang out. Well, that's really it for episode 137, Zach. So I just wanted to go ahead and say, folks, just remember, if you work at Chicago Gaming Company, email us, thepinballshow at gmail.com, and tell us what's going on. We don't know what's going on. We don't understand. Just someone tell us something so that we have something we can say other than no clue. And always practice safe pinball and be on the lookout for the upcoming title, Pokey Man, Pokey Man Dead. People are still upset, complaining about it. Almost as upset as they are about my statements about Genie. Holy shit, did I piss some people off. You got me a little flustered. Man, it was a sack of shit game. I don't mind you bad-mouthing the game itself, but for you not to put it on the pedestal that it deserves to be regarding artwork was kind of a shame. I said the art was good. Yeah, but you didn't prop it up. I did. It deserves proper propage. Prop it up. The art can't look. You know what would be a fun segment for us to do sometimes, Zach? I'm going to tell you what. I'm scared to ask. No, this is great. I've thought about this one for a long time. No, you're... Yes, I know. I know. But this would be a good one. It wouldn't be good for, like, reviews. Like, you thought those... You thought... Think about all the three stars we would get. If money was no object, you had no... Let's just say that, like, you could buy a couple of JJPs. You got that level of money. What game would you buy all of and destroy? Oh, my God. All of them. Like, that game does not deserve to exist. and we will purge it. We'll call it La Perga. That will be the name of the segment. La Perga? La Perga. Yeah, The Purge. That's actually a good name. Yes. Wow. That would piss so many people off. I know. Maybe we have to Patreon paywall that one. I don't know. I've been toying with it. I'm writing it. Writing it on the list. I think it would be a lot of fun. Just to hear a rant about something where we're just like, you know what? No. No, this doesn't deserve to exist. Yeah, there's nothing redeemable enough to counterbalance all of the negatives. It actually brings the industry, takes the industry backwards. Like, it would be better for there to be no industry. If this game continued to exist. Sure. And I'm taking it, Genie would be in there? That's kind of, well, I'm just saying, like, that's kind of where, because of the aggression, I guess, I used in the rant on that, and on Space Invaders, for that matter. It's just kind of like this, like, we are all dumber for knowing that, you know, it's the Billy Madison thing. It's the Billy Madison thing. We are all dumber for having experienced this game. That level. But with destruction. I don't know, it's going to be fun. But just something to noodle on. But yeah, oh, the number of three-star reviews we would pick up. Oh, my gosh. I wrote Leperga down. Yes. Leperga. I don't know how to spell Leperga. JJP also this week. Oops. Nicole's ordering something. What? I heard a ding in my ear. Can you hear her or do you just feel the money coming out of your credit card account? I felt a disturbance in the Visa. a force I haven't felt since yesterday's Amazon order. She gets so upset because it's all like PayPal's linked to my email. So she can't, hadn't figured out how to change it yet. So every time an order comes through, it's like the, it's like the, the doorbell on Christmas vacation. Boom, boom. So dreadful. It was only $10. Dodged a bullet on that one.