Episode 319: Bulls & Balls

Pinball Profile·podcast_episode·43m 22s·analyzed·Oct 21, 2021

Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Pinball Profile visits Bulls & Balls in Germany, interviewing European distributors and elite players.

Summary

Jeff Teolis attends Bulls & Balls, a major multi-day tournament in Fulda, Germany, and interviews key figures in the European pinball community including tournament organizer Matthias Kluber, distributors, and elite players like Robert Suter (Switzerland), Helen de Haan (Netherlands), and Flavio Bateria (Italy). The episode highlights the European tournament scene's intensity, the role of dedicated venues and distributors in supporting pinball culture, and the growth of competitive play across the continent.

Key Claims

Bulls & Balls runs multiple large tournaments throughout the year, with events coming up in November and December, and the big Pinball Olympics usually held in June
high confidence · Matthias Kluber describes tournament schedule at Bulls & Balls venue
Guns N' Roses from JGP is the hot seller in Germany/Europe; Monsters from Stern is good for casual players due to easy ruleset
high confidence · Dirk Eitzholz from Pinball Universe discussing sales trends
Godzilla has very high demand for Premium and LE due to the moving building toy and complex playfield
high confidence · Dirk Eitzholz reporting on Godzilla demand, noting machines hadn't been picked up by Stern yet at time of recording
Switzerland has major pinball clubs: Silver Ball in Zurich with ~80 machines, location outside Zurich with ~100 machines, and formerly Outlane with 60-70
high confidence · Robert Suter describing Swiss pinball scene
European import tax of 25% (plus VAT) was applied from November (last year) to July, increasing pinball prices ~30% for end customers
high confidence · Stefan Riedler explaining European tariff impact on machine pricing
Robert Suter has won the Epstein Cup 4 times out of 5 entries and aims to play it at IFPA World Championships 2023
high confidence · Robert Suter discussing tournament achievements
Pinball Alps tournament is held at ~2000 meters altitude in the Swiss Alps; machines are driven up mountain via truck and gravel roads
high confidence · Stefan Riedler describing logistics and location of Pinball Alps event
Helen de Haan has been playing IFPA competition for 12 years, started playing in 1998, and is ranked around 400 globally
high confidence · Helen de Haan discussing her competition history

Notable Quotes

“Every single game, every ball mattered. There is no try again. Seven events over three and a half days, and the competition was unlike anything I've ever seen.”
Jeff Teolis @ early in episode — Describes the grueling nature of Bulls & Balls tournaments and endurance-test format
“I hope that they come as a stranger to us and go as a friend. And I think it's amazing that all the guys come back.”
Matthias Kluber @ mid-episode — Expresses tournament organizer's philosophy and community-building approach
“It's like in Germany, the taxis are all with a foil on it. So they get not so many chips on it and they keep the value. And pinball machines are quite expensive.”
Stefan Riedler @ mid-episode — Explains rationale for using playfield protectors on expensive modern games in Europe
“You always meet the same people so it's like a small world it really is even if you go to Indies or if you go to Pinburg it still is a small world”
Helen de Haan @ late in episode — Reflects on tight-knit nature of competitive pinball community across continents
“I was so happy. Like, usually those two guys win, you know, Peter and Robert. I don't know what got him to be. I was able to do that”
Flavio Bateria @ end of episode — Flavio's reaction to winning major 92-player tournament at Bulls & Balls
“The demand for this topic is very high, especially because of the layout of the game. The demand for the premium and LE is very high because of the moving building in the middle of the playfield”
Dirk Eitzholz @ early-mid episode — Indicates strong market enthusiasm for Godzilla's centerpiece toy mechanism
“So with only alcohol and a little bit cranberry. Yeah, very little. Very little cranberry. So we changed a little bit and think with the hash fruit inside, you don't smell the alcohol.”
Matthias Kluber @ mid-episode — Humorous exchange about the 'Mongolian MF' drink served at venue; lighter moment in interview

Entities

Jeff TeolispersonBulls & BallseventMatthias KluberpersonDirk EitzholzpersonPinball UniversecompanyRobert SuterpersonStefan RiedlerpersonRS PinballcompanyPinball Alpsevent

Signals

?
business_signal: Stefan Riedler working on CE certification for Spooky Pinball to enable legal European distribution; requiring multiple meetings and compliance with electrical standards; mandatory for insurance coverage and legal home use
high · Stefan: 'we are working on a certification to get the games over here to have them complying with the Electrical requirements... we need to apply for the CE certificate and you need to comply with all the rules'
?
community_signal: Venue-based community building model at Bulls & Balls: multi-purpose facility (karaoke, stage, multiple machine wings) with staff support structure; emphasis on welcoming strangers who become returning friends; post-pandemic recovery with 'Welcome Back Tournament'
high · Matthias Kluber philosophy: 'I hope that they come as a stranger to us and go as a friend... players ask on Sunday when is the next tournament'; facility expanded multiple times to support growing events
?
event_signal: Pinball Alps high-altitude tournament (2000m Swiss Alps, July/August) represents unique niche event logistics; machines transported via truck up gravel mountain roads; first edition featured early pandemic-era game releases (Rick & Morty Bloodsucker, Beatles Platinum, Stranger Things LE, Black Knight LE)
high · Stefan Riedler detailed truck logistics and video documentation; event organized with JBL in summer 2020 coinciding with early Spooky game releases
~
sentiment_shift: Strong international pinball community cohesion across European tournaments; same elite players recurring at Bulls & Balls, Indisc, Pinburg, Swedish Championships creating 'small world' perception despite geographic distance
high · Helen de Haan: 'you always meet the same people so it's like a small world... even if you go to Indies or if you go to Pinburg it still is a small world'; players traveling internationally (Flavio & Wolfgang partnership)

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.130

0:00

it's time for another pinball profile i'm your host jeff teal so you can find everything on pinballprofile.com all your subscriptions past episodes and more we're on facebook we're on twitter and instagram at pinball profile and you can email us pinball profile at gmail.com crossed something off my bucket list finally made it to bulls and balls in fulda germany Over the last few years, I've noticed these massive tournaments over several days run by German country director Tobias Wagerman. We'll hear from him on the next Pinball Profile. These are the original Whopper Fests. For the last couple of years, Brisbane Masters have had these 10-day long Whopper-tunities. Just this past weekend, District 82 in Wisconsin ran a super series of six events over four days. But to me, it all started at Bulls and Balls in Fulda, Germany. I had to check it out, and I did and enjoyed it. I love playing pinball, but this was a true endurance test. I've played a lot of pump and dumps, but at those events, yeah, you might be playing for up to 12, 14 hours, but you can come and go as you please. And if you have a bad game, all right, oh well, get another entry. Go back to the wallet. Try again. Well, not so easy here at Bulls and Balls, because every single game, every ball mattered. There is no try again. Seven events over three and a half days, and the competition was unlike anything I've ever seen. In fact, I would relate it to the World Championship. Why? You had some of the best players from several European countries show up to this big event. And think about it. There are no casual pinball players that go, oh, I think I'll try this seven-tournament, four-day event. No, no, no. This is for the diehards. They do a few of these big events at Bulls and Balls throughout the year. There's one coming up in a few weeks in November. There's another one in December. The big pinball Olympics usually held in June. There was amazing catered food as well. So lots of schnitzel, sausage, sauerkraut, and plenty of whoppers. Here are some of the people that attended that wonderful event. Here at Bulls and Balls with Dirk Eitzholz from Pinball Universe. And I have to say, you have brought a bunch of amazing games here. And I've heard about Pinball Universe from Jim and Dina Lindsay quite a bit. So congratulations on everything you do. And you really have done a lot for this market. Oh, thanks a lot. Yeah. Yeah, for this tournament, we brought around about 10 machines with us. And we support the tournaments as good as possible here at Bulls and Balls. What did you bring here to this tournament? Today, we brought the Guns N' Roses, Hot Wheels, Monsters from Stern, Deadpool, Black Knight, Led Zeppelin and all latest games from Stern. I wonder, because I know from some of the distributors in North America, what are the hot sellers. So what are the big hot sellers here in Germany and in Europe? From JGP, it's Guns N' Roses. It's selling very, very good. And the hot seller from Stern, a good machine. It's difficult to say. We are selling all machines. It depends a little bit of the customers. If you are not practiced to play pinball, then the Monsters is a good machine because it has quite an easy rule set. Nice shots. Yeah, in fact. And you can play it, have a lot of fun. I play it myself quite a lot because you don't have to concentrate that much. It's quite easy to play. You can talk to people and play the machine. And if you play, for example, the Black Knight, then you've got to concentrate because if you hit the post, then the ball is lost. But then you're done your ball, so you've got lots of time to talk with Black Knight. Yeah, that's right. But I like to play pinball machines as well, not only talking. I'm not surprised you said about the monsters. I happen to notice a little sign on the way here, Monster Germany. I'm probably saying it wrong, but it's spelled the same. Okay, yeah. Yeah, but the stern machines are all good. If you like music, then Led Zeppelin is the right choice. Or if you like complex games, oh, yeah, you're wearing a Led Zeppelin shirt. But if you like complex rule sets, then the Avengers is the first choice. I've got an Avengers at home, and I like the machine, even though the rule set is quite complex. But, yeah, it's a challenge to play that machine. And what about the latest, Godzilla? Have you had a lot of demand for that? The demand for this topic is very high, especially because of the layout of the game. the demand for the premium and LE is very high because of the moving building in the middle of the playfield and all the other cool toys and yeah we can't wait to get our machine into our showroom. We usually get the first machines pro and LEs by air freight and we just talked to Stern last week and it hasn't been picked up at Stern so far but we expect to do it or to happen it in the next days. Yeah at the time of this recording. I'm starting to see some of them be distributed in North America, so we'll be soon here in Europe as well. Dirk, it's a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you, and good luck with you at Pinball Universe. Okay, thanks a lot. These amazing Bulls and Balls tournaments are not possible without two wonderful people, Patricia and Matthias Kluber, and Matthias joins me right now. Thank you very much for having us. Thank you for staying here. It is a fantastic facility, and you were telling me beforehand, it's just expanded and expanded. There's Karaoke, there's a great stage, but you've got different rooms, different wings for pinball machines. It's amazing. Yeah, it's true because the tournament goes bigger and bigger and we need more space. And I have the space and I would like to give all the people a home. I hope that they come as a stranger to us and go as a friend. And I think it's amazing that all the guys come back. They ask after four and a half days, tournament, when is it? On Sunday at 8 o'clock PM, they ask when is the next tournament. So I think it's crazy. I'm happy that all the people go on Sunday. And 15 minutes later, okay, I think about the next tournament. That's because of how wonderful the facility is, how great the machines are, the quality. I saw your Congo restoration game. That's beautiful. A different back glass, side art, and it's spectacular. But all the games are here. And, by the way, the next tournament is in about three weeks, and then there's the big one in December, the Ho Ho Ho. I'm glad it's not only Patricia and me, the Bulls and Balls. It's like a little bit Bulls and Balls family. We have Toby here, we have Marvin here, so some stuff behind the bar. And I can do it only by myself. I need some guys behind me and it's a family.

15:38

Thank you very much, Robert. It's a pleasure to meet you finally. Thank you. Not only one of the people here at Bowls and Balls, but somebody who's brought some incredible games here from RS Pinball from Austria, Stefan Riedler. Hi, Stefan. Hi, nice to meet you again. Nice to meet you too, sir. And in fact, if you're going to Pinball Expo in Chicago, you're going to be there. How did you, a European, get into the United States before November 1st when you're allowed? It is possible, but only due to business reasons. Yes, and you need to have a special exemption there for which you need to apply and I did and I'm importing all the spooky games So whole Europe and so we are working on a certification to get the games over here to have them complying with the Electrical requirements so we have there several meetings and I combine it Yeah, I combine it together with the expo and so it's my good chance to go to the USA again Well, that's good and good for you doing that We're bringing Spooky Games to Europe too because we saw how quickly Halloween and Ultraman sold out. The same with Rick and Morty and everything else they do. So you were talking about the certification. That's something they didn't have before, but now that's going to be a big part for Europe. Because in Europe, when you distribute such an electronic product in a wider range, you need to apply for the CE certificate and you need to comply with all the rules. And then you can sell the product to everybody and they can use it at home. without the e-certificate, there would be maybe a problem if the machine would burn down or if there is anything, no insurance would pay. And so therefore, this is mandatory to have. So hear that, everything is going to be fine now for your spooky games here in Europe. And if you're in Austria, definitely check out Stefan at RS Pinball. Now, what you've done here is you've brought some games. You've brought four games, and I play a lot of pinball. There are four games I have not played games on. That's how unique these games are. You just, we're standing actually right here, the big Lebowski, with the rug, which totally makes the pinball machine, by the way. A lot of fun. What a great game. I really love it. It's so smooth to play. It's a modern Bailey Willemux game. It's so smooth from the rule sheets. You have the main shots which you go, you go for the characters, you go for the character multi-ball, for the rug, for the different modes. Then you have the upper play field with the car. It's really, you have mechanical toys in it. It's really so much fun to play. And then don't forget about bowling down below. Yes. Lots of good. The other three games you brought, I have not seen the heavy metal game until you brought it from RS Pinball. I've got to say, I've always liked the Star Wars pin layout, which is inserted in obviously different art for heavy metal. But you've got the nice DMV display on the heavy metal. It looks and sounds great. I never have seen before the home pin version as well, because they are so rare over here in Europe. but it makes a lot of fun to play. Optically-wise, it really looks like a full pinball machine. It has the full normal cabinet artwork with the color in it. It's fun to play, and yeah, it's very rare. I'm a bit, let's say, the boutique guy over here in Europe. Okay, the other games you brought, I love Multimorphic and what they're doing, and I've always wanted to see Heist because I think that crane was, sorry, Twippies, that was the best toy of the year. Thank God the Pinball Industry Awards awarded it correctly. I am amazed at how incredible those multi-morphic games are. And you should be a little bit underneath the playfield, lifting out that insert. And it was pretty easy. You only remove the lockdown bar, the glass. You have three connectors, then two locks on the left and right-hand side, and you take out the playfield. I would have a cartridge as well with me if you want to have a look on it tomorrow. Wow. So it's very fast to change. So much fun. And then you have Alien, the SV, correct? Yes, the Pinball Brothers version. I was as well a distributor for Highway Pinball and sold a lot of games over here in Europe. And now I got my first SVs, which are going to the customers and looking forward on the LVs, which hopefully should come the first ones prior Christmas. I noticed too, on some of your games, you've got the Playfield Protectors. Now, certainly with Big Lebowski, that's a very expensive game. It's like 13,000 euros. I've been playing it, don't really notice it, but there's a good reason why you like to put that on. Yes, it keeps the value of the game much on a better level. And in Europe, let's say it's not standard, but all distributors, dealers offer it right now. A lot of customers are asking for it because you keep the playfield and the whole machine in a better condition. And I explain it always to the new customers. It's like in Germany, the taxis are all with a foil on it. So they get not so many chips on it and they keep the value. And pinball machines are quite expensive. They increased the price quite a lot in the last years. So it's a high value what you have there and you want to keep the value on the level when you sell it after a while. So coming out of the pandemic, we've seen the prices increase because there are certainly supply issues and also bill of materials issues. What's that been like for your customers explaining the cost increase? It's a combination of facts because it's a shortage of components, what the manufacturers have. You see it on all manufacturers. They cannot produce as many machines as they would like to. The shipping logistics costs increased and there is, especially for Europe, there is an additional factor what you don't have in the States or in Canada. This is the 25% import tax, which was valid from last year, November onwards. This increased all the pinball prices for end customers for 30% around. 25% tax and on top the VAT. So it was 30% higher. Is that still in effect? No, it is not. it was stopped with March for a 33-month period, and then they stopped it in July overall. But this was quite a big effect overall on the markets. All the used machine prices increased. Sure, why wouldn't they? And also the new ones increased quite a lot. It came together with the pandemic that so many new people are coming to the hobby because they are at home they don go on vacation they have their holiday money and they bought a pinball machine So there is more demand than let say the same amount or not enough games right now Before I let you go, Stefan, I watched on JBL Pinball one of the most unique pinball tournaments and it would have been last year in 2020. In fact, it was the first tournament I saw during the middle of the pandemic. The event was called Pinball Alps. First of all, tell people where it was. It was in Cary in Switzerland in the middle of the Alps, directly in the mountain and nothing else. How high were these games being played? It was nearly 2,000 meters of altitude. So think about that. I assume that, no, you must have driven the games up the mountain. That's how you get them up there, don't you? There is a street up to 1600 and then there is no street anymore. There is only a gravel road where the landlords can go up and the people which have the building there. I did it with my truck with six machines in the truck and I made a video of it. And once we maybe need to make a shortage of it to make it in fast forward, it was a crazy drive up there. But we will do again next year. I heard because JBL is going to do that now. The reason I know they were there as I watched the stream, but also to talking to Jim and Dina, they took all their gear up on a chairlift. Yes. A chairlift. I helped them pack this weekend, and that's heavy equipment. So I was just thinking about you and the pinball machines. What a unique tournament. Pinball Alps. If you are in the area in Switzerland, and that takes place next year, June? It will be around, again, July, August, something like this. That's a must. It's really, normally there is a great weather in this area at this time, and you have a very great view. And we have there maybe 10 to 12 games, because I only go up twice with the truck and not more often. Here's another thing I remember about that. Because it was in the summer of 2020, I think it was the first time I saw Rick and Morty, even Stranger Things, be played in a tournament because the pandemic happened in March of 2020. And here's this tournament. First time I ever saw these games in play. Yes, it was Rick and Morty, Bloodsucker edition. It was a Beatles Platinum. There was Stranger Things, Limited Edition, Black Knight Limited Edition. So I have there a friend and a customer who have really a lot of games. And I brought his games up and organized it together with him. And we had television there and radio because they are very well connected. And it was a nice advertisement for pinball as well for the region. Thank you very much for bringing the games. And again, if you're in Austria and you're looking for a pinball machine, talk to Stefan at RS Pinball. Thank you very much, Skibon. Thank you very much. I think the last major, major pinball event I was at, so was this woman. But that was in California at Indisk. And here we are in Germany. And I get to see, from Holland, Helen de Haan Vervijk. Did I get it close? You are very close. I tried to roll the Rs there. And it's great to see you. And actually, we got to play each other. That was a lot of fun. That was fun. It was the first game of the day, so it was not that good. Well, somebody got lucky and somebody just was waking up. So I think that's what happened. But you've been playing for such a long time. I think it's 12 years now for the IFPA. I think so. I started in 98, actually. Yeah. But I started playing like competition matches later than that, of course. And what is the competition like in Holland? I mean, I want to go to the Dutch Pinball Museum, first of all. Yeah, the Dutch Pinball Museum is nice. And we have like two big tournaments in the Netherlands. that is the Dutch Pinball Open and the Dutch Pinball Masters. And then the Masters is like the biggest event in the Netherlands. And when is that? As I get my calendar out here. We have one in November. I think that's the Dutch Pinball Open. And I'm not sure when the Masters will be. You have to look it back in the previous.

25:45

So it will be around the same date. I know people that have been to both those events and they just say they're spectacular. They are. But the Dutch Primal Open is more like for everybody. And the Masters is more for the one that likes to play matches as well. Yeah. More like competitive. Well, that's what you are for sure. And you've been doing this for some time now. And I wonder, because you've played for years and you've played different matches, is there a favorite format for you? I like this format because you do like a lot of tournaments in such a short time. you have to have one good day and then you get some points yeah yeah and you can have also bad tournaments as well that doesn't matter if you have like seven tournaments in a weekend but it's nice to also get together with people from all over i mean i came a long way to come here but you know you came a little bit but there were people from france from england from sweden yeah and every time i go to like tournaments like this if i go to sweden or to denmark or to germany you always meet the same people so it's like a small world it really is even if you go to indies or if you go to pinberg it still is a small world you went to pinberg too i mean it's sad to see that's gone yeah i was because it's the last one organized that i went to and the big women's international pinball tournament that's the one i played as well and i got to the final anyway but i'm not that good in not tilting the game I bet you notice how tight those tilts were Yeah, they were very tight So you really had to play with your fingertips And well, you know, maybe I'm a little bit A rough player But you're a great player And if you look at the rankings In the world, you're going to be up there You're currently around 400 And I'm sure after this weekend, even higher But when you look at the women's rankings I think of Karen Kaiser also in Europe But then you're right behind Karen for Europe I think so Yeah, it's nice to see the development of the women's tournaments, and we're seeing more and more of those. I think anybody who runs a major tournament should always have a women's event, if possible. If possible, yes. Sweden was the European Championships. I've won that in, was it in 2019 or 2018? I don't know. Not too long ago, yeah. Not too long ago. And there I won from Karen Walker, I think she's an American lady. And I met Penny Epstein, and it was nice to be there. Yeah, very, very nice. Yeah. Well, it's been a treat playing you again this weekend and seeing you. What's next for you? Are you going to get back to Indisc or some others? Yeah, for sure. I will be there. I'll see you then. Yeah, I'll see you then. Thank you, Helen. You're welcome. Flavio Bateria and Wolfgang Hyde, and they join us here. Hello, Flavio. Hello, Wolfgang. Hello, Jeff. Hi, nice to meet you. It is good to see you guys. I know, Flavio, you've been across the pond, as they say. You were at Pinnberg when Daniele was in second to that. I think his name was Keith Alwani. Yeah, I think I know that guy. But how great was it to see two of the all-time greatest at the final ever Pinnberg and your countryman, Daniele, who's just, those two, I could watch them over and over again. Yeah, me too. It was just amazing, you know. You look at them, they play so different, and they get so great scores, you know. I love it. I just love it. For you Wolfgang, I heard about how you started playing pinball and you're in northern Italy, correct? Yes, yes. I'm straight on the north. I'm near Austria, on the corner to Austria. And therefore I speak also German. My mother tongue is German. And then second language is Italian and third, yeah, is English. It's not that good. Your English is very good. Oh, thank you. You started playing in these tournaments and you met Flavio. And of course, you know, traveling for pinball can be expensive. You had hotels. And Flavio said, look, you seem like a nice person. We have similar interests. Just stay at my place. And you really developed a great friendship ever since then. Yes, that's what's great. And we developed a really good friendship. And now you see us here. I was with him also in Pinburg. And then he went up to Marano, where I live. And we sleep there. And then we go on to Fulda. Or we go on to Bünde. Or we travel from Bergamo to Germany, to Hertha and all the nice pinball locations. And you're both excellent players. I've played you both this weekend. I have finished second both times to both of you in fact. And Flavio, let's talk about what happened for you yesterday. It was probably the biggest tournament here. It was my biggest tournament ever also. My greatest result ever at the moment, yeah. So you know what's going to happen here. But what it was, was there were the 92 players and we played some, it was round robins. It was Swiss mode. It was Swiss mode, 10 rounds, and the top 32 players got to play in a huge bracket style. And I was doing pretty good until the last few rounds, and then I had to play a one-ball tiebreaker. I got lucky to advance, but unlucky that I had to play you first round. And you went on to win the whole thing, so I joke and I say, you know, once you got past me, it was easy after that. Of course. No, actually, you played great. I was, I don't know, I just played a little better. His first game he picks was Lethal Weapon 3, which is the first game I ever owned. I'm like, got it. I know what to do. 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, forget multi-ball unless it happens. Flavio put on his second ball a score I never achieved in the three years I owned that machine. So it was actually a great clinic to watch you playing. Congratulations on your big win. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, the one-two-three thing, you just keep doing that. But the finals, you and Nico and Peter Anderson, a former number one player, and Robert Zuta from Switzerland. That's a powerhouse. Yeah, oh my God, I was so happy. Like, usually those two guys win, you know, Peter and Robert. I don't know what got him to be. I was able to do that crank it up, you know, for whom the bell tolls, which is the most dangerous one. but yeah, I could cash it in Wolfgang, one of the things I've noticed here at Bulls and Balls at this huge tournament and actually the only European tournaments I've played is the quality of players I mean, out of the 92 players here there are 50, 60 that are absolute wizards when it comes to pinball and any one of these people could win and when you come to a big tournament like this no one's coming kind of casual You know you're going to be playing four days, eight tournaments, 14 hours a day. I don't know how you feel about it, but for me, experiencing this for the first time, you learn a lot and it elevates your game because you have to play better You can just get lucky here and there You really have to be on your best It probably made you a better player hasn it Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. It's amazing. And it's really challenging. You can never say, oh, it's an easy game. This guy is easy. It's never easy because there are all good players here at Fulda. Let's say the 50, 60 players are really, really strong players. And all could happen. And you learn a lot on the machines, on the guys. and I'm growing not that much like Flavio. Flavio is a rocket, yeah, really, yeah. But I'm growing step by step, and now my next target is to go in the first 200 players of the world. Now I'm 300-something, I don't know. But I started with 3,000, yes, and then I go up and go up. Now I'm number four, could be number four in Italy, number five, number four in Italy. Let's see, yeah. Very, very nice, and some great competition there. You two have another common interest, And it's not just pinball. It's not traveling to all these wonderful places in Europe. It's your athletic ability. Wolfgang, a little birdie might have told me. What's Italian for little birdie? Un uccellino.

35:01

That's okay. You won the Euro Cup, so that's fine. See, my grandpa is from Italy. My grandmother is from England, so that was the perfect final. But, Italia. Yeah. Come on. And Flavio, this blew me away, and others who know you well know this. I didn't know this. I have seen things like the Harlem Globetrotter several times. I'm not talking about pinball, although it's a wonderful pinball machine. And the tricks that are played by the athletes, the shows that go on at the halftime before the show, the trampoline, the dunks, the flips, the spins, the ball tricks. If we look carefully, that's you. Yeah, that's me. I started playing basketball when I was eight. But look at me, I'm not tall enough to play seriously. But when I was 14, I had great basketball basic skills, which helped me to get better at tricks. So I went to see the Harlem Globetrotters, actually, in Milan. They blew me away. Then during the halftime, the move came in. The move is my current crew, you know. And I got crazy, man. I started practicing and practicing and practicing. And I won the European Championship twice in 2010 and 2011. and then I won the world championship in 2013. So, yeah, I needed a new challenge and I was already, I wasn't old, but I was old for becoming good at a sport, you know. So I got into pinball and it's perfect. Perfect. Wolfgang, at 49 years old, you look fantastic, by the way. Oh, thank you. Doing these over 35 triple jumps, that's incredible. Okay, you're looking at Flavio, you know him very well. He did basketball, he's doing pinball now. As he gets older, what's going to be next for him? Next are the World Championships, for sure. World Championships, pinball? Okay. I think so. Hope so. I can see why when we were playing earlier in that playoff, you wanted to play NBA Fast Break. You love that game. Yeah, I do. Well, there's a lot of trivia questions on there. They're dated. They're old. So let me give you a trivia question. And here they're in German, too. Oh, yikes. You have to name the former number one overall NBA draft pick from the Toronto Raptors that hails from Italy. Oh, that's Andrea Bargnani. There you go. The wizard. I know the guy, actually. What? Yeah, we work together. I'm a freestyler, man. He's the VIP, so people come because he's there, but then they enjoy to see him and our show. Yeah. So, yeah. No, no, he's a very nice guy. He's a very funny guy. He has a great sense of humor and, yeah, super tall. Yeah, seven feet. Flavio Wolfgang, thank you, gentlemen. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you. It was really nice to meet you. Hope to see you soon. I agree. We will see each other soon. Maybe I'll just stay here after that PCR test I had. I don't know if I want to do another one. I'm just going to stay here. Oh, damn. Tell my wife and kids I love them. All right, thanks, guys. Bye. Stefan Herold is with me right now, one of German's finest players. But, you know, when I think of Paul Englert and Johannes Ostermeyer, these are young kids. If you add their ages, you have been playing a long time in pinball, and you are one of the greatest in this country and in the world, in fact, a very competitive player. I've enjoyed watching you play because you're so controlled when you play. It's a unique style. Yeah, I have to play controlled because I'm getting old now and I'm not so fast anymore, you know. But on the classics, just some incredible nudging, some shots. You really know what the rubbers are going to do when the ball bounces. Will I be like this when I play pinball for a long time? Will I start to develop these skills? Because you have them. Yeah, I like to play classic and I play them a lot. And I played a lot when I was a kid. And these machines were all around and we used to try our best. and that's what came out. You've come away with a little bit of hardware so far here at this Fulda tournament. That's kind of nice. The trophies, yeah, it's great. I was in two finals, which was really surprising me because the best players around here, and along with Peter Anderson playing finals, it's such a great thing, and I beat him. That is very nice, and it looks like you're up right now. I just wanted to say hi to you, and thanks again, Stefan. Thanks again, Jeff. Nice to have you here. Very bittersweet, the ending here of the Bulls and Balls weekend here in October, although there are other events coming in November and December, and then, of course, next year there'll be at least four of these. We saw an amazing finish with Flavio from Italy beating Peter Anderson in a tiebreaker on jackpot. The place is quiet now. Everyone's gone. But you know who's not gone? The people behind the scenes who gave us the great stream and have done for a while. You can hear the clinking and the clanging. They're taking apart the gear that they've spent so much money and time on. Jim and Dina Lindsay, thank you for everything you've done, not only this weekend, but the entire streaming. And people don't realize how much effort you guys put into this. And I want to thank you personally. Thank you very, very much for that on behalf of me and Dina. We do it because of a passion for pinball. You know that and you have that passion yourself. So if we weren't doing it, I'm sure there would be somebody else here filling that space. Well, some of those people could be here to help you tear down. I think that would be nice. That unfortunately never happens. So as soon as the tournament finishes, everybody leaves, like leaving the nest. The people that are left here are me, Dina, Matthias, the owner. And Tobias avoiding his daughter. So that's what I possibly have understood. No, I'm kidding. So, yeah, it's part of what we do. It's part of the service. So we actually, taking the equipment apart is not something that you really want too many people getting involved in because it's too easy to damage things. So we're actually perfectly happy doing it, pretty much. We appreciate your help, Jeff. Well, what I do is easy compared to what you do. And the MVP of the weekend, yes, you may say, well, Flavio won a couple of tournaments, Peter won a bunch, Paul won a bunch. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not here if it isn't for Dina Lindsay because I traveled on my own, a foreign country. I don't speak the language. I don't know the transit system. I don't know much about the airport. Dina, you've made it possible for me to come. So thank you very much. You're most welcome. You're always welcome to come back. Now you know your way. Oh, so I won't get the help the next time. You're not going to get any help next time. Just kidding. Now you're most welcome. Anybody visiting, anybody visiting for Pinball, all pleasure. Always welcome to be in touch, and we'll figure something out. Well, Daniel Spoler from Project Pinball was here a few weeks ago, and I know you guys were kind enough to show him around, and you've been very, very hospitable. I can't thank you enough for that. But it is kind of sad that this is over because it was such a fun, fun weekend. We're tired, but it was fun. We are all tired, but you're right. You sort of come to an end of a stream and you're on a high. That final and the tie-break in particular between Peter and Flavio was awesome. And so you're sitting right up on the high. Your adrenaline level is pumping. And then you realize you've got to say goodbye because it's just time to go. The event's finished and time to say goodnight. And then the work week begins. You're both working tomorrow. Forget about how much money you've spent and how much time you've spent. Dina, how much time have you been able to sleep this weekend? Oh, not much, really.