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We Are Pinball #10!!! "X-men, Avatar...and Enzo?"

We Are Pinball (WAP)·podcast_episode·1h 29m·analyzed·Sep 5, 2024
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claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.039

TL;DR

WAP #10 celebrates Jack Danger's X-Men reveal while debating Stern's three-tier model and designer pipeline.

Summary

We Are Pinball episode 10 features hosts Don and Genghis welcoming Australian pinball content creator Enzo as their first guest. The episode focuses heavily on Stern's newly revealed X-Men pinball machine designed by Jack Danger, with extensive discussion of its innovative playfield design, three-tier pricing strategy (Pro/Premium/LE), and strong community reception. The hosts also discuss Stern's new one-year warranty, production decisions, designer pipeline concerns, and operator vs. collector perspectives on LE vs. Pro machines for different market contexts.

Key Claims

  • X-Men LE pricing in Australia is approximately $20,000-$21,000 AUD, which converts to approximately $15,000 USD after taxes

    high confidence · Enzo provides direct pricing calculation with calculator open; independently verified by European pricing comparison

  • Stern is now offering one-year warranty (backdated) instead of traditional 30-60 day warranty

    high confidence · Don emphasizes this as a positive recent policy change by Stern

  • X-Men LE production is 20% lower than previous LE runs

    medium confidence · Don mentions 'there's 20% fewer of them now' in reference to X-Men LE availability

  • Indiana Jones pinball game was rumored but appears to have been canceled

    medium confidence · Genghis mentions hearing rumor of Indiana Jones and notes it 'appears that that was canceled'

  • George Gomez disclosed that Hunger Games pinball was 80% complete in R&D before being canceled due to studio concerns

    high confidence · Genghis states 'George Gomez told a story that they were 80% done with Hunger Games'

  • John Borg's most recent design was Rush (2022), with subsequent games being Turtles (2020), Monsters (2019), and Guardians (2017)

    medium confidence · Hosts fact-check timeline during discussion; timeline appears slightly inconsistent in transcript

  • X-Men includes three multiball modes according to apron card

    medium confidence · Genghis references 'apron card says three' for multiball count

  • The X-Men Pro version includes Danger Room and all wire forms but lacks Sentinel head movement and hand interactions

    high confidence · Extended discussion of feature differentiation between Pro/Premium/LE tiers based on trailer analysis

Notable Quotes

  • “I just woke up at 6 o'clock this morning to jump on the webinar. And, yeah, as soon as it started panning across, I was going, what the hell is going on here? I was like, this is not... I was like, this doesn't look like a stern. Am I watching the right video?”

    Enzo @ ~15:30 — Captures the shocking surprise and novelty of X-Men's design aesthetic compared to typical Stern expectations

  • “I think Jack Danger is going I'm sick of people ranting and you know going off on Stern. Let's give them something to not rant about because even the most negative people that are normally negative are not negative today, right?”

    Genghis @ ~50:00 — Articulates the perception that X-Men represents a deliberate pivot by Stern to address community criticism

  • “There hasn't been a machine since I've been doing this as a deep that has created such a buzz. I don't even think like, you know, I remember watching the Godzilla one and I was like, yeah, this is impressive, but it still didn't leave me the same awe.”

    Enzo @ ~65:00 — Positions X-Men as unprecedented in recent Stern releases, surpassing even the highly-regarded Godzilla machine

  • “I love that this game has none of those big rubber posts. Everything has got a stand-up target, stand-up target, or ram shots. No post that will shoot the ball straight down the middle. You can just feel this game is designed by a guy that has played a lot of pinball.”

    Don @ ~55:00 — Identifies Jack Danger's design philosophy of eliminating frustration points through playfield layout expertise

  • “When Jack Danger was ripping off punny factory because that also has a very [elevated captive ball]”

    Genghis @ ~33:00 — Notes potential mechanical inspiration/homage in X-Men design, suggesting iterative design learning

  • “I've got like customers now. What the heck? What happened? It's a great idea because someone like me who... I buy mods, but I've got to wait for a friend of mine to come over to put them on for me.”

    Don and Enzo @ ~40:00 — Illustrates emerging custom modification/distribution business opportunity and operator demand for turnkey solutions

Entities

Jack DangerpersonX-Men (Uncanny X-Men)gameEnzopersonDonpersonGenghis (Cengiz)personStern PinballcompanyGeorge Gomezperson

Signals

  • ?

    business_signal: Custom pinball modification business emerging opportunistically; Don Coe's Customs taking orders for powder coating, mod installation, full machine builds

    medium · Don notes organic growth from hobby to multiple customer requests; Enzo validates market demand from non-tinkerer collectors

  • ?

    community_signal: Stern extended warranty to one-year (backdated) as quality/service signal following community criticism period

    high · Don explicitly credits this as major positive policy change; framed as part of broader 'Stern trying' narrative

  • ?

    competitive_signal: X-Men perceived as direct response to competitive pressure from Spooky/JJP toy-heavy design philosophy; Stern repositioning with higher feature count

    medium · Genghis notes 'people buy into spooky machines because they're loaded with toys or JJP because they're loaded with toys'; X-Men positions as equivalent toy density

  • ?

    design_philosophy: Jack Danger's X-Men represents intentional pivot toward toy-heavy, complexity-focused design philosophy in response to community criticism

    medium · Genghis interprets release as 'F you to people giving negativity'; higher bill of material noted; eliminating 'irritating' design elements

  • $

    market_signal: Community perception shift: X-Men represents turning point in Stern's design philosophy and market responsiveness; 'they're really trying' narrative gaining traction

    high · Consensus across three-person panel; comparison to Godzilla; explicit statements about unprecedented FOMO; negative community sentiment neutralized

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.267

0:00
Oh, you ready for the E-40 drop on this episode of WAP? What are we up to? Number nine? Number ten? I think it's ten. We are here, of course, with Cengiz, myself, Don, Don's Midball Podcast, and my buddy Enzo from Australia. What's up, guy? Woo!
0:23
How you going, guys? Thanks for having me on. Australia's favorite Italian. apparently i don't know i don't know if you have a olive garden out there that might supersede it but only because of the free breadsticks no we don't actually funny enough it's one of the franchises that hasn't come across yet oh dude it'll get there together so enzo you do a lot of work with gonzo's pinball flipperama who we all know we we try and uh do videos as often as we can he's a hard he's a hard guy to get hold of but um he's uh we go we we just hit it off and And, yeah, he kind of asked me, can you come on board a bit more often? And here we are. Twelve months later, I'm doing more pinball stuff than what some of the regulars normally do. But the time difference kills me. It's currently, what is it, currently 11.30 p.m. Oh. Yeah, I just woke up, and then Cenk is over there. He's been partying. He's got the perfect time right now because it's afternoon in Denmark. Yeah, man. Dinner is getting cooked, and the other thing, we're going to eat soon, so it's okay. So before we start and hit all this Stern madness and also end the video with JJP madness. So this trio just started with yesterday I uploaded the video about the Stern game, the X-Men. And in that video, one of our friends called Retro Ralph, he was very excited. He was riding. And I asked him, Retro Ralph, man, you're so cool with your videos. Do you want to join? We're pinball. and he was like, heck yeah, and it was okay. And 30 minutes ago, Donnie hit me up, and we were like, okay, Retro Ralph, it's so cool. And he said, yeah, man, I want Enzo. And I said, Enzo, okay, that's interesting. Who's that guy? And Donnie said, he's a great guy, man. He should be on our show as the first guest. So, Enzo, welcome to episode 10. You just said you make YouTube videos? I do YouTube videos for work. So I'm in the audio industry. We've got a hi-fi store here in Australia. And then I started obviously getting into this crazy hobby of pinballs and then started doing video content with Gonzo on his Flipperama channel, which is a great little channel.

  • “Before the crash, we always bought the LE on locations because LE held the prices. We could buy an LE... and you could let it make money for two years and get $12,000 when it sold it. But those days are gone.”

    Cengiz @ ~75:00 — Key market signal: LE resale values have declined significantly post-crisis, changing operator purchasing strategy

  • “I think it's a big F you to the people that have been giving a lot of negativity to them... I went fishing for the negative people... and I think they've gone all in.”

    Genghis @ ~48:00 — Interprets X-Men reveal as intentional community sentiment response from Stern leadership

  • “As I said, they're really trying. I mean, before the crash, let's just go two years back... but those days are gone.”

    Cengiz @ ~75:00 — References significant market event ('the crash') that fundamentally altered LE economics and operator strategies

  • “The pro doesn't have the beast captive ball and doesn't have the other bit. So for me, it's like if you're really invested in the director's intent or the designer's intent, it's a no-brainer.”

    Enzo @ ~62:00 — Articulates collector mentality around designer intent as justification for LE premium despite cost

    • John Borg
    person
    Retro Ralphperson
    Gonzo/Gonzo's Flipperamaperson/channel
    Godzillagame
    Zombie Yetiperson
    Indiana Jonesgame
    Hunger Gamesgame
    Metallica Spike 3game
    Paragongame
    Goldeneyegame
    Ripley's Believe It or Notgame
    Guardians of the Galaxygame
    Jurassic Parkgame
    Iron Maidengame
    Jawsgame
    Foo Fightersgame
    AMD Distributorscompany
    Venomgame
  • ?

    leak_detection: George Gomez shared insider factory photos including Jack Danger with Sentinel head to community; reveals selective behind-the-scenes content

    high · Don and Genghis reference photo; Gomez described as 'started sharing these insider photos'; community praise for content strategy

  • ?

    licensing_signal: X-Men comic book license potentially lower-cost than action IP (vs. Indiana Jones), enabling higher bill of material investment

    low · Speculation that 'comic book didn't cost as much' enables design budget; unverified

  • $

    market_signal: Stern implementing reduced LE production (20% fewer units) to restore FOMO/scarcity narrative post-Venom/John Wick demand weakness

    medium · Don notes '20% fewer of them now' in context of LE desirability vs. Venom's price plummet

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Jack Danger transitioned to Head of Community/Marketing/Streaming role (July 2025) while maintaining creative input on designs

    high · Hosts reference him as 'one of us' demonstrating fanboy passion; insider photo sharing by Gomez; active community engagement

  • $

    market_signal: LE resale market fundamentally changed post-crash; operators no longer able to achieve 50% appreciation (e.g., $8k Iron Maiden LE -> $12k); strategy shifted to Pro-only purchases

    high · Cengiz detailed pre/post-crash operator economics; notes transition from LE to Pro for Jaws, Foo Fighters; significant market structural shift

  • ?

    announcement: X-Men pinball officially revealed by Stern; Jack Danger as designer; three-tier pricing (Pro/Premium/LE); release imminent

    high · Extended discussion of reveal trailer; webinar attendance; feature-by-tier breakdown

  • ?

    product_strategy: Indiana Jones pinball rumored and apparently canceled; speculated connection to John Borg availability for subsequent design assignments

    medium · Genghis mentions hearing Indiana Jones rumor and current cancellation; debate over whether shelved for quality concerns or designer resource conflict

    • 2:47
    And before you know it, I was doing them quite regularly and just trying to help out a little bit where I can and really, really enjoy the community and the hobby and why not? So cool, man. Do you do podcast also or only the YouTube? No, he's just YouTube. Okay, okay. I mean, I think there may be an opportunity there to just convert the audio to podcast. Yeah, why not? So, yeah, welcome. In the background, I can see you have got jaws that's pimped up. I can see you have got a Deadpool. Lovely game. And you have got John Wick. That's the LE version, right? Yeah. Okay. John Wick was, I had to go LE only because it's one of my favorite movie franchises. And just the stained glass and the foil on the cabinet.
    3:37
    And I was just like, if I don't know the game, I haven't played it. I just went, you know what? Let's just get an LE. I'm not normally an LE buyer, but it just isn't too good to not get it. No need to convince me. I did the same thing, man. So beautiful, man. Wow. So Donnie just said that you made videos with Gonzo, UK's biggest YouTuber. He just wrote that. And I don't want to be disrespectful. You don't sound like a guy from UK. You sound like Thor from… No, no. I'm definitely in Australia. That's for sure. Australia. Oh, okay, okay. I love the accent. Absolutely. Don't get me wrong. It's so good, man. Wow. Australian, Italian. Yeah. So we have got Australian, European, and from the U.S. This is such an international show now. So cool, man. We are worldwide. Yeah, man. Absolutely. All right. So I don't know if you have heard, but Jack Danger just dropped the game. Wait, was that this week?
    4:51
    I was watching the reveal trailer, and I was just trying to text in the Discord. I just kept saying, like, holy shit, holy shit. People were like, well, what? What are you seeing, dude? And I'm like, there's an upper play field in the out lane. I don't know what's going on here.
    5:07
    Wow, man. I was also, I mean, yeah, I recorded my trailer reaction, and I was like, I don't care about the theme, but everything else just hit me. What an amazing, fresh, and unique design. How about you, Enzo? How did you feel the first time you watched it? So I got up at 6 o'clock this morning to jump on the webinar.
    5:29
    And, yeah, it was just as soon as it started panning across, I was going, what the hell is going on here? I was like, this is not, hold on, this isn't, you know, I was like, this doesn't look like a stern. Am I watching the right video? And I was just like, oh, God, this is great. and it just kept panning up and down. And I was going, hold on, where does that go? Where does this go? And then obviously they started talking more in depth and, you know, trying to make – I just couldn't get my head around it at first. I was going, this is – and even the artwork, right, the artwork on the play field, because it looks like a comic because of all the square and the bits, the homage that Zombie Yeti's done to the comic aspect of it is just unbelievable. I know some people have commented that, like, it's a bit full on. But I just think, honestly, I think it's perfect. Yeah. You know, it's mint.
    6:22
    ZombieYittyMan. He's amazing. Everything he has done is amazing. There's no bad art from him. So beautiful.
    6:31
    It was so weird. Like, was there panning over everything? Like, it's familiar because I recognize that art style, you know, but I think this is probably the best implementation of, like, that comic style that I've seen. And then the moment for me was when I saw the Sentinel grab the wire for him and just destroy it. I was like, well, that's it. I'm in now. That got me. How awesome is that? The Sentinel's living under the play field. I'll take my distributor.
    6:55
    I mean, that moment, it was at the start of the video. That moment was so powerful, just crashing that. I mean, wow, man. So a lot of people are writing, this is a premium early buy only. How do you feel? Is it like that? Or could, we haven't seen no gameplay videos, no nothing. and just this little few-minute trailer. But could we buy the Pro and be happy? What do you guys think? I think for this one, it looks like the Pro will get you the Danger Room, and it looks like it gets you all the wire forms. I may be missing one or so. You don't get the interactivity with the hands, but you at least get all the ball paths, which for a Pro is pretty awesome because that's usually the differentiating. There's some major ball path that's not there. so yeah feels like shots on lay out of there hands are missing also that tickly hand on the left side the ball tickler the ball tickler do we have a phrase for that can we call it that that's the new name so that's missing um and i don't think the sentinel head moves down no it doesn't know it's a bad toy okay okay and it's it's cool it's just best are always on there it's okay but the biggest question is at the back of the play field it has got this um what's it called the captive ball the elevated captive ball with a very target target yeah how does i mean we have to see that before we can say we need the premium leo or not because it's new innovative it's different i love various targets uh last time i experienced that was on ripley's believe it or not but also old godly games old em games they were so popular back then so i don't know man but um yeah it's about half price off the le basically well so it looks like it looks like jack danger was ripping off punny factory because that also has a very target oh oh okay okay so you said you contacted your distro right away. I did. As soon as I saw that hand and then the upper playfield in the outlane, I was like, this is, I'm done. So I was texting going, I want an LA. Oh, man. The theme is huge for me. I watched the X-Men TV series. I had the comic. I've actually got, I was going to grab it, but it might be in the tub over here. I've got my comic as a kid, which was the Days of Future Past from the 80s, which was like what this is based on, right? And I was like, when I saw that, I was just going, this is just ticking all the boxes. Oh, my God. You're so lucky. Being in love with the theme and get a design like this? So you go for an Ellie. So in American dollars, when the game is delivered with shipping, all the expenses at your front door, how much will it cost you for the LE today? Well, we were speaking about this the other day, actually. The Australian LEs are about $20,000 or $21,000. U.S. or U.S. dollars? Australian. Oh, okay. And when you convert to U.S.? I actually have my calculator open because I knew you were probably going to ask that. Yeah, it's interesting. I'm from Europe. So that is, from memory, it's about, after taxes, about 15,000 US. Okay, okay. Pretty comparable.
    10:36
    It's not too far off, right? I thought it was more expensive because when people talk like in Australia, it's more expensive than Europe. But we buy the game for 13 and put on 1,000 bucks for air shipping by plane. and then 25% VAT on top of that, so it's expensive here also. Donnie is so lucky being in the U.S., man, so much cheaper over there. Not only that, but I'm local to Chicago, so when the game is ready to go, I can drive down to the factory and just throw it in my truck and save on shipping fees. I mean, hashtag blessed, man. Yeah, no shipping cost, no nothing for you, man. That's how many hours, two, three hours or what? Two, three hours, grab a pizza and a hot dog, and, yeah, we're ready to go, man. Enzo, we should move to the U.S., man. Yeah, I know, man. How long have you been in the pinball hobby, Enzo? Look, as deep as I am now, probably a couple years, but I've played it all my life. Okay. Probably between kind of 2010, 2020, I had too much going on, and a lot of, you know, first marriage and all this type of stuff. So I was a bit distracted. But I played it whenever we went to the arcades. Pinball's always the thing I played. But then, you know, when I hired one a few years ago for my birthday and then I was like, this is really good and my kids really liked it. Which game was it? 9-6. We hired Jurassic Park because my son's a huge dinosaur. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and then I love Stranger Things as a theme. Oh, yeah. I'm a big 80s nostalgia kid. Oh, yeah. So that theme is huge, you know, and we hired those two, and I was just like when they left, I felt an emptiness that I'd never got from any of the other hobbies that I've collected in the past. Like I used to do vintage video games and vintage toys, and sometimes I'd get rid of stuff and I never really had that emptiness that I had from, you know, returning the pinballs as such. Yeah.
    12:54
    The thing that used to pull me off the most for a long period of time was just the fact that they're so big and they take up so much space. Right. And I'm one of those people that if I go in, I go all in. Yeah. It's just like I don't want one or two. I want as many as I can literally fit.
    13:11
    So I have an obsessive personality. nice man that that's powerful do you have older machines or only brand new sterns do you have some old dmds and do we have some i used to have like a lot of older games like you're um not like i had um things like um charge dread terminator johnny mcmoney golden eye getaway all those type of machines but i'm not i'm not a tinkerer at all right so if something goes wrong, I've got to pay someone to come out, and there's not many technicians over here, and sometimes the machines would stay dead for like weeks and weeks. And it got to the point where those old machines, as much as the nostalgia was powerful for me, because I used to play them in my local arcade, the problem was that they were taking up real estate and they weren't working, right? And they were costing money, right? Because some of them are $6,000, $5,000, $4,000. so I'd made an executive decision to just go kind of anything that is 2005 onwards like technically I said 2010 but then I really like Lord of the Rings so I had to push it back a bit and make it work so now I'm kind of I'm a bit of a Stern fanboy. Stern is very big in Australia. AMD who's our distributor. It's a big shout out to Michael at AMD. They've had a very big relationship with Stern for like 30 years. So they dominate the space here.
    14:45
    They also make great games. I mean, we can't, I mean, to be honest here, they make amazing games. And this game is just absolutely amazing. So, Don. Yeah. Did you get an LE also? What are you doing with this? As soon as I saw that Rampty form and everything I was seeing, and I was texting my distributor saying, tell me you've got some LEs left. Because I was already planning on, I'll go on a premium, we'll make it over to look close to an LE, and then I had a buyer for it. So I was like, all right, that'll be fun for me to do. But then when I saw this thing, and then, you know, there's 20% fewer of them now. And I love the fact that, like, the one side of the art is the older in the past, and the other side is in the future. So, like, on one side you've got pristine armor, the other side it's damaged. with the foil that's going to be there and the beard, back glass and everything. I was like, this is an Ellie to buy. This isn't like a Venom that's going to plummet afterwards. Did he have some Ellies left? Yeah, he had two left. Oh, okay. So I was like, well, I'll grab one of those and send me the premium too because I got a buyer for the premium makeover. What? So I guess I'm turning into Don's House of Customs over here.
    15:58
    We have been talking about that And because Don, he buys these great premium machines, and sometimes he makes them better than the LE versions. And, Don, you have buyers ready when you're done with those games after four or six months. So last time we talked about this, I actually said you need a company name. You need, you know, you need a sticker. I was just calling it like Don Coe's Customs after West Coast Customs. I thought it was just fun and stupid. But now, like legitimately, people heard about this idea, and I've had more people contacting me. They want powder coating projects. They want full machines built. And I'm like, when did I turn into like a custom house of sub-distribution here? What the heck, man? This was just like my hobby, and now all of a sudden I'm getting orders from – I've got like customers now. What the heck? What happened?
    16:45
    It's a great idea because someone like me who – I buy mods, but I've got to wait for a friend of mine to come over to put them on for me because I just don't – I'm not one to – like I said, I don't tinker, right? So if someone could do it for me and, like, powder coat the game, put all the mods on, and then give it back to me, I'd be all over that. Sure. Yeah. All right. You're not alone, it seems like. Yeah. I got the shooter rod prototype. Yeah, it looks great. The Sentinel hit. Mutants detected. I was asking, but that's okay. Donnie, you should do something like this. You should go 100% into this business. Because almost weekly you're sending me amazing videos with all the mods you're doing that people don't know about. You should share everything, man. You do so much. Oh, man. I've got some cool projects cooking.
    17:34
    So Enzo talking about, you know, he's not a tinkerer. Let's just go in and use two minutes on something really cool that Stern did. And that is instead of giving 30, 60 days of warranty, they are giving one year warranty now. How amazing is that? And backdating as well. Yeah, man. I mean, they're trying here, man. Better warranty, 20% lesser at least. They're trying. Okay, the best thing could be cut $3,000 off the early price or something like that. But they're trying, guys. And we have to give them some shout-out. It's so good. I'll be very honest. I think as of today, it is now a very different stand. Yeah. But moving forward, you know, to mess this up now, like it's a lot of pressure for the next person that's got to design a game.
    18:30
    But like they – I think the thing with Danger is that he's obviously one of us, right? He's a fanboy and he's a fanatic and he knows people want something different and people buy into the spooky machines because they're loaded with toys or they buy the JJPs because they're loaded with toys. and it's kind of like they want toys, let's give them toys.
    18:54
    So in a way, it's a very different world as of today when it comes to Stern. I think it's going to – it would take a lot to fuck this up. Sorry, I probably shouldn't swear, but to mess this up. That's completely allowed on this podcast. Yeah, we do it often. I mean, you're absolutely right. This reminds me of back in, I think it was early 2020 or something like that, when we got Godzilla. All of us were just talking about, oh, my God, the next game after Godzilla has to be better than this. And the next game came, and it just didn't deliver. And the next game came, it didn't deliver. Godzilla just Godzilla'd all of those games. Now, this scenario, Jack Danger, his second cornerstone game. And as you're saying, the next game, who's the next designer? Who's in line now? I think it's Borg. Now, going back, we did hear that there was a rumor that there was an Indiana Jones game coming out, and I was super excited about that, and it appears that that was canceled. And at first I was super disappointed, but now with this perspective, I'm wondering if that Indiana Jones was more like a Led Zeppelin or something. It just wasn't going to impress. Maybe they're like, you know what, this would probably do more damage at this point than releasing it, So go and rework it. So I'm thinking, you know, aside from the Metallica Spike 3 that's supposed to come out, I think he's next up as far as designer.
    20:25
    George Gomez told a story that they were 80% done with Hunger Games and then canceled the whole thing. Oh, man. They had problems with the studio. They weren't happy with the way it was going. And they were deep into like 80% of the, not building and everything, but of the R&D and all that. and that's a lot of money and time to throw.
    20:48
    But sometimes – like I've walked away from some big deals at work because I felt that the customer was going to be problematic. Like I've walked away from a million-dollar deal, right? And it was the best thing I ever did. And sometimes you just have to because you can do more damage. I don't want the headache.
    21:07
    I mean, John Bork, what was his last game? I don't even remember now. Was it Rush? Did he have anything since then? Gosh, that's too long ago. I was looking at this today because I was like, surely he's going to be doing something. Yeah, it's just true. Rush is just. Yeah, because we had Foo Fighters, Venom.
    21:27
    He didn't do Venom. Jaws. It was Rush, then Turtles. Yeah. So Rush was 22, Turtles was 20, Monsters was 2019, and then Guardians was 17. I think John – Did you say Rush? Was that 22? Rush was 22, yeah.
    21:46
    So I think John Wick was the spot that was supposed to be his game that ended up getting shelved. So we would have seen it by now. So, yeah, I guess his might be next up, plus or minus Metallica. The fact that everyone missed – and I don't know why it wasn't touched on, right? Like the fact that they didn't touch on in the – you know, they were going over the game. They didn't touch on the dead post in between the flippers. Yeah, yeah. So what going on with that Is that just a strictly a poster to try to save Yeah yeah because if you look at the image there another one in the out lane that looks identical because some people are like, oh, maybe that's like a magnet. I mean, it would have been great if it was a magnet post where it caught the ball like in Goldeneye and then chucked it back up again. Oh, man. It looks like it's just a post that you can try and save the ball. That's all.
    22:36
    Guys, can you hear me? Yeah, we got your back, buddy. Okay, I just lost connection. I don't know what to talk about, but you can fix that, right, Donnie? We're good. We got it, I think. Okay, that's cool. So my connection just cut off while I was asking you guys a question. Do you feel like, just looking at that trailer video, do you guys feel like the bill of material is a bit higher on this X-Men game?
    23:04
    Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, there's definitely more in this thing. now maybe that's because the license because it was a comic book didn't cost as much maybe it's because Build of Materials is not like a real strict thing where each game has the same limit maybe Jack Danger is just very persuasive I don't know but definitely this is way more a game than we're used to seeing for the last couple of releases yeah and honestly I think they'll probably stick again and criticize I think Jack Danger is going I'm sick of people ranting and you know going off on Stern Let's give them something to not rant about because even the most negative people that are normally negative are not negative today, right? So because out of curiosity, I went fishing because I don't normally fish for the negative people, but I went fishing because I was like, how did they react to this game, right? And, you know, I think they've gone all in and they did it because they just, I think it's a big F you to the people that have been giving a lot of negativity to them. There is a lot of stuff. I mean, did you see the photo of Jack playing that George Gomez snuck of him holding the Sentinel's head? Yeah. It was like, it was massive.
    24:14
    Yeah, it was. Yeah, man. And I just love that George Gomez, he has started sharing these insider photos from the factory, and we all love them. It's so good. I mean, he's not giving away too much, but more of that. doing stuff like that just like Jack Tender also does it feels like Enzo is saying he's one of us right so it's so good but I also feel like this game's bill of material is a bit higher because it's just jam packed and I'm loving it so from the video your favorite area or shots of the game let me hear Enzo if you start your favorite shot or area look I'm a sucker for that side call it a side play field in the out lane I think that's great and the way it the little flange let's call it whatever the hell it's called that holds the ball so it looks like the ball is levitating before it goes in cerebro that was that part there I think is such a I know it's a bit of a homage to Paragon Wings what's it called Gold Wings Old Wings, right? Very similar. But the game feels like a wide body.
    25:36
    Yeah. Jam-packed. There's so much stuff. I'm going, is this game wider than a normal stern? But apparently it's not. So, yeah, I think that area has got me really intrigued. And the fact that they've got that highway ramp at the back, that detours back to that left flipper.
    25:55
    There's a lot of diverters in this game, that's for sure. Yeah, I don't think the diverter from the right ram shot, I don't think that the diverter is included in the pro version. They don't show or say nothing, but I don't think it's included there. Let me tell you about my favorite area of this game. It's the upper left side with that eight-ball shot, like where the ball just curves around. It's so new. It's so good. I have seen that clip like ten times. I can't wait shooting that upper left area. So cool. Do you have any idea what's going on at the upper right side? They didn't show much of that area. There's a big snaky ramp, and there's a part of the ramp where it's double-decker, right? So I can exit out the top or the bottom into that destructible wire form. But as far as, like, what's really going on there, I still have no idea. I love that.
    26:54
    I love that feeling of, like, there's something there. I know the ball interacts with it, but what do I do to get up there? And I've got to figure it out. I love that. I love that this game has none of those big rubber posts. Everything has got a stand-up target, stand-up target, or ram shots. No post that will shoot the ball straight down the middle.
    27:20
    You can just feel this game is designed by a guy that has played a lot of pinball. He has eliminated all the irritating stuff. You can just feed it on the layout. But something that's really cool on this game is the placement of the pop-bombers. At the lower right side, you have the slingshot. That slingshot will sling the ball to the right pop-bomber, and that will sling the shot to the left pop-bomber, and that will sling to the right pop-bomber, and that will sling to the magnet that throws the ball around. So I think this game will have, if you're not careful, you will have a lot of side-to-side action and drain, of course. So I don't think this is an entry-level pinball machine. I think you have to know a bit of what you're doing. How do you guys feel about it? I think that will definitely help, but I think anybody could walk up to this and start throwing balls around and see some crazy stuff.
    28:15
    Especially for that easy level one multiball that you'll be able to get. I can't imagine what multiball is going to be like in this game.
    28:22
    Well, they reckon there's three multiples in this game? Yeah, the apron card says three, yeah. Cool. I think it's a pinball machine that looks so good that most kids in an arcade will walk up to it even if they've never played pinball. And the hands, I think the thing with the Pro, I buy into the story and being immersed in the game, and I think the hands play a big part of it. And for people that don't care about that, you could probably buy a pro and not really care, but then you don't get the beast. The pro doesn't have the beast captive ball and doesn't have the other bit. So for me, it's like if you're really invested in the director's intent or the designer's intent, it's a no-brainer. The premium OLE is just a no-brainer. I can tell you, we have seven locations here in Denmark, and I can tell you of experience that theme sells. As Enzo was saying, when kids go into the arcades, we can see it on the camera on all those locations, they look around and then they see a game like Guardians of the Galaxy and kids are like, whoa, look at that. Put in two, three dollars and try out the game. So yeah, theme, absolutely. But the hands, the premium LE, our experience is paying almost double amount for an LE compared to the pro doesn't make double amount of money.
    29:56
    I mean, it is what it is. For location, I mean, pros are just as good as the LE. So I think it's for the homeowner. I think for a guy like Angel that loves this theme, I mean, I would have taken the LE also. But on location, theme sells. But most people, they don't even know about the difference between the Pro and Premium and the LE and stuff like that. But, yeah, those hands, when we saw it as pinball nerds, if I can call us that, wow, man, it was just instant buy. It was absolutely amazing, man. It really depends on your location clientele. Like, you know, if you're at Bakken, right, and you just want to grab kids' pocket change, yeah, just throw the pros out there. You know, if you're running a bar or a brewery that does pinball tournaments and you're bringing in that clientele, like, they'll travel to be able to play the games with the better features. And some even build their reputation on having, you know, LEs in the top shelf games, and, you know, they get the clientele for it. So it really depends on your location and your crowd, really. Well, most of the arcades in Australia, to be honest, the ones I've been to, especially the one here in my hometown, he's only got LEs and premiums because the fear I think he has is that if it's a pro and it's missing stuff that people won't gel, they want the most jam-packed game for the audience, especially because a lot of people don't even know. We just held a little pinball festival last week, and we were getting people that were there for the darts tournament and the poker night walking past going, is pinball still a thing? yeah they didn't realize it was still a thing right so having a game that is jam packed like Jurassic Park where the T-Rex eat the ball would blow a kid's mind yeah that would blow a kid's mind right that would affect this you can get away with Guardians because Groot still eats the ball yeah whatever nobody cares about some hands but I think certain games would benefit in my opinion and this is one of them I mean this is just there hasn't been a machine since I've been doing this as a deep that has created such a buzz. I don't even think like, you know, I remember watching the Godzilla one and I was like, yeah, this is impressive, but it still didn't leave me the same awe. I don't know if it's because I've been so like meh since then and that's why, but I don't really remember watching Godzilla going, you know, having FOMO.
    32:25
    That's the thing. Well. It's definitely a game changer. I feel a shift. Yeah, this is great. As I said, they're really trying. I mean, before the crash, let's just go two years back, we always bought the LE on locations because LE held the prices. We could buy an LE. We could buy, you know, Iron Maiden LE. It cost, what, $8,000 back then for Unlimited Edition Iron Maiden, and you could let it make money for two years and get $12,000 when it sold it. but those days are gone. After that, we bought Jaws, only the pro. We bought Foo Fighters, only the pro. So we have a huge location with about, I don't know, 150 or 200 games, the biggest location we have got. It's filled with LEs and filled with the showroom games like all the Jersey Jacks, all the everything I can think about, it's in there. But the other small location are on big malls, and on the malls, people don't know about the pro and premium melody, but we have got one location called Steelhouse, big hotel. That location is for tournament players. That location is a great location, and those guys want pro machines. I'm telling you, guys. I don't know if you're into the tournament, but we have a lot of guys here in Denmark that travels all over the world and gets really high places when they play tournament. I don't want to go that much into tournament because it feels like when podcast shows talk about tournament, it feels like people are turning them off. So I don't know how people are feeling about that. It's definitely a different aspect of pinball. Now, if you're a tournament player, when the building on Godzilla is cycling, you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs like, come on, I want to be scoring points and things. So I see, you know, for the gameplay and for the point strategies, they like the faster playing pros, no gimmicks, no ball slowdown, let's go and progress. So I get that. That's definitely not me. I want to make, when I'm lucky enough to make the cool thing happen, I want to sit there and basket it. Yeah.
    34:40
    You want to see what's going on. Bring it to me, yeah. So I understand their concerns, and I don't share them for myself. I don't see X-Men being a very popular tournament game Because I think the ball is going to Probably survive a long time in this play field Are you guys irritated over that The flippers are moved a bit to the side? Does your guys OCD trigger by that? Not one bit Because I know the game is designed on that shot geometry And it just looks super cool The right out lane is the shooter lane That's so weird I was just like shifting it over there but that's what made them made it able to do more of a wide body type of layout so they're using more real estate inside that cabinet I can't wait to play this thing man my favorite shot looking at this thing I mean of everything that's going on that cross field shot where you shoot up to the left it hits over to the right comes down that wire form in front of the apron just like Flintstones into the danger room and if it carries enough velocity to go up through the flipper or through the spinner to the mini flipper and then up to that ramp to the cerebral lock that's going to be like the greatest shot in pinball so much in one you know yeah i mean jurassic uh jaws has got at the left side when you shoot one of the shots it come back and makes a lot of stuff and this is like that it's i mean i feel like elwyn and jack d just great team i mean they're from the same same place we But it feels like they're just delivering at Sturdy. It just keeps on getting better and better. Jaws, I think Jaws, what a very good selling title. John Wick, I don't know how it is. I mean, it came a bit flat, but now with new code updates, I don't know if it has catch up on the market. Have you seen all the prices going up on John Wick? In Australia, we've sold out of LEs because our distributor page says sold out. There's some premiums in that left. Everyone that I know that owns one really likes it. It's a very hard game. You can't like my kids won't, my kids struggle with it, I struggle with it, but the call outs and the style of game I think keeps you captivated. But I think this happened with James Bond. Everyone hated James Bond when it came out. And now to this day, I still think it's one of the best turns ever made.
    37:09
    Same story with Screams of Things? Oh my god, yes. Yeah, we just had a conversation about Stranger Things. But, yeah, like, I just think everyone's very quick to criticize very quickly.
    37:22
    You know, like, everyone's like, oh, this might be a number one game. We haven't seen the shots yet. I'm sure the shots are great. But, you know, we haven't seen any gameplay.
    37:31
    I think what got me on this game was just the attention to detail. Like, with the LE, the flipper buttons are two-tone. That's cool. Yeah. so it's the yellow and the red and i'm like that's like that's so cool thanks man so it doesn't have the expression lights inside the cabinet it has got like the speakers but how do you feel i mean i'm a huge fan of those expression lights but it's not possible on this i you know it's nice that if you've got a pro or premium you're not going to be sitting there staring at the calendar waiting for them to be available to put in there and the fact that they're churning out the speaker kits, I think that's fine. Yeah, I love them too. I think they would have worked in this game. They're not in there, but I don't think that really detracts a ton from how I'm feeling about it. Oh, it's so good. I love light shows and stuff. I mean, Elton John is very bright and stuff. I think sometimes they can be a bit distracting.
    38:26
    Like on Foo Fighters, it's good. I think it works well. But I don't miss it. I watched it three or four times and then realized that it didn't have them. I didn't really think it up straight away. I was like, I can live without him.
    38:41
    What do you think about the Illy armor color? Perfect. It's that candy color purple. Yeah, that sets it off. So I'm already researching how I'm going to go paint match that to make everything else that same color.
    38:57
    Yeah. So sweet. Shiny purple, buddy. Shiny purple. It's a very iconic X-Men color. Yeah. So while all of this was going on Where Stern said Yeah, in a couple of days We're gonna show this game All of a sudden We got some pictures of JJP's avatar Right? Leaked or not leaked We don't know So I was in there At JJP's page I was like Instead of sharing these photos every day You know that in two days Stern will release this game why don't you guys just release the game yeah absolutely yeah why don't you guys just do that and that comment got a lot of likes and hearts and down under somebody wrote something something and jack gunari like that guy's comment but not mine thank you jack but now after x-men got released after I have talked with multiple distros and they have sold out of the Elise. That's why I asked you Donnie.
    40:07
    After all of this, we get this message from JJP that says, eight days after when you have watched the video of this amazing masterpiece, when everybody has bought this game, when all the pockets are empty, we will release Avatar. What do you guys think about this move? come on they did this with gold godfather godfather in my opinion even though it's a it's a bit of a miss for me they took too long to release it out yes it was overshadowed it yeah like if this was the days of venom or even john wick um what they were doing was saying hey by the way we have something coming just save your money for a little bit until you see this and then just i don't think they anticipated this game being as awesome as it was and then the fact that like i was watching the trailer and I'm calling my distributor and I wasn't planning on an OEM for this. Enzo, same thing. So I think we kind of shot our money wads for this month now. And so Avatar is going to look awesome. It's going to have multiple upper under play fields. It's going to be the best box of lights with blue people you can possibly find. The CE topper is going to be amazingly interactive and I'm going to wait and play it and maybe down the road. I don't know. I'm definitely not like I don't have the budget in me for like an impulse purchase now for Avatar.
    41:30
    That's because you just bought a couple of games, you know. But a week ago I might have, you know. What my issue is, I, from the bottom of my heart, I want JJP to succeed. Yes. Really. I want some fresh competition and I want this company to succeed. succeed but either release it you you had two days before you could just release a simple i could film a trailer in 15 minutes just put out something and show the people we have got this game it's so beautiful but waiting over a week where everybody has bought this brand new masterpiece of a game Then just hold back the release. Don't release it. Just wait for two months or something. Build some games. I mean, it's just so misplaced, and this is going to hurt their income. I think waiting a week I don't think is going to do them any favors, but releasing a day earlier would have. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Then people could, you know, see this is from, I mean, the LE and the Platinum version, what? I think the platinum is like $12,500 from JJP, right? Yeah. So you can go in and compare which theme do I like, what is this, what is that. But this scenario is horrible for JJP. I mean, I wish them the best. This scenario is just horrible. One company that's just so good at this is Spooky Pinball. Yeah. They always release a week before everybody else. They're sitting back. They're crunching popcorn in Benton right now, just looking at their December release window with no competition, and they're just going to walk out with Futurama or something awesome. Best timing. They just released, sell their games, and then a week or two later, all of the other companies released, and they fight over the same money. I just wish the best for JJP. But, yeah, let's see how it goes.
    43:37
    Sorry, do you think there's a bit of, I don't like using the word arrogance, But there's always, I mean, especially here in Australia, there's a bit of a divide that JJP buyers and JJB buyers, and they won't buy Stern and vice versa. Do you think that they maybe don't care, thinking because they're like, oh, our clientele is not Stern buyers to a small degree? You know, they have their numbers, so they would know, you know. Yeah. And I think – But guys, can they afford that in today's market? If we look back at JJP games, so Elton John, popular. Everybody loves it Was it a big seller? No Before that Godfather Was that a big seller?
    44:20
    Was it though? Because there's a lot of Godfathers for sale right now So somebody bought them I mean I know distros that has got Godfather Yeah And what did we get before Godfather Toy Story 4 That was not a big seller either I mean... Big earner. Big earner on location. I mean, yeah, yeah. I can count on the count for that. But you know what I mean? I mean, can they afford the arrogance like Enzo was suggesting maybe? You know... I don't want to call it arrogance. I think that's a bit negative. But I think they just feel that they are in a bit of a league of their own because their games are very jam-packed. Their toppers are very jam-packed. Their lighting is very – and they're more expensive, right? So they feel – they probably feel that they're more the Rolls Royce of pinball. And it's like it doesn't matter really what everyone else is doing. They're probably in their own lane. But I really feel that the problem with Godfather when it came out, it was overshadowed by – I'm pretty sure it was Foo Fighters at the time. Right, because, you know, it's just Goldfather had no upper play field. It had nothing really exciting. And as an Italian, I had it. I bought it, and it lasted a month. Wow. Oh. I was just, apart from the fact that it looked beautiful and the gold lions and all that type of stuff, it was one of the best, gorgeous games. But it just, I just freaking hated it. So the animations, the animations of Godfather are incredible. Like they made all those, the multiball animations, the ball lock animations, the end screen with the match. Like on that huge screen, like so much great effort came to bring that to fruition. But like if it was just in the service of a different theme, that would have been incredible, I think. I mean, guys, I grew up with the Godfather movies. I love everything Italiano. Oh, the theme is just top-notch for me. I love the theme. We have it in our showroom. We have with the lion legs, all that gold. That's the C version. I feel like I'm the only guy that is defending Godfather game. I don't know. When I choose the Corleone family, when I listen to the music, or when it's game over and you can hear the guitar from Slash, I wrote RoboJingus back I like the theme but I just wish better for JJP because as I said earlier I think they it's just so misplaced launch 12th of this month just after people will have their Ellie Don you will have your Ellie unboxed by the 12th. Don't you think so? I heard that next Friday they're expected to start shipping the LEs from the factory. Come on! That's amazing, man. That's how you do business.
    47:35
    That's an interesting part because you kind of go, even I think last time when they released the game JJP, there was a delay in shipping some of them. I don't know if that was because it was obviously during COVID and that. But Stern is always like the next day they're out the door usually.
    47:51
    It just blows my mind how fast they get onto site. Love it. I wonder if there's an X-Men Pro at an interium yet. It's a huge mall arcade right in Schaumburg, right near the factory and it's where things go out first. They're certainly doing the LEs first for exclusivity, right? To make people feel special. So the LEs are definitely first. But you touched on animation. One thing I really loved about the X-Men promo video was that when they showed the screen, the animation moved. Yeah. It wasn't static. Oh, that's right.
    48:25
    Yeah, it wasn't static like Avengers. Yeah, yeah. And it looks really good on X-Men. It looks really, really good.
    48:34
    So, Jeremy Packer is on the audio, and when he does audio, it's just magical. But I mean, for me, audio is 50% of the experience, so I can't wait. Do you think that deep voice is the call-up voice throughout the game? Oh, the Sentinel? Yeah. Mutants have been it. Well, there's got to be some Xavier, though, too. To me, my X-Men. I want this very nice light-voiced feminine lady voice in my pinball machines. I want something like that. I want Rogue and Kitty Pryde to be talking to me the whole time. Yeah. We spring on talking yeah it could be do you think that they will release all the accessories because they said that they will really work on that and you know two weeks later have the topper and everything ready do you think it will happen this time who knows well they didn't seem to take too long with jaws but we still don't have venom so i i don't know honestly i don't think anything would there's obviously some issues with sony and marvel because venom obviously is a sony property right So there must be issues. I mean, George, you've got to give it to George. Love the guy. Gomez is, like, so active on social media. He literally responds to as many people as possible. Someone criticized the Venom stuff today, and he said, there's a story behind why it's taking so long, and we'll tell you what that story is. We can, yeah. So I'm sure it's licensing and whatnot. I'm just hoping it's not like the Avengers one where it's just a plastic kind of cut out of the people. Oh, yeah. Right? that's a bit lame I'd love to see like a massive venom like the creature from the what do you call it remember the old green yeah yeah just a massive venom coming out of the machine would look great it's over the back box that's one right yeah but obviously I think it's all going to be it definitely has and I actually have people today that are not into pinball and it was on their feed because it's got – I'd love to know how it's trending social media-wise because I've got a friend of mine that's not into pinball at all. I don't think he follows any pinball pages. And he goes, oh, did you – he texted me today and said, I saw this new X-Men game out.
    50:57
    He's never mentioned pinball to me ever from social media. There's obviously a big buzz around at the moment. Yeah, my coaster friend is like, dude, that X-Men game looks sweet. And I'm like, oh, man, he's seen it already too. And another cool thing that Stern does is right now while we're recording, I can see Angel's games are turned on, and he's just looking at the screen. But, yeah, but I can see on the background on the John Wick screen, I'm enjoying the whole game, the whole X-Men game running in the background. It's so cool, man. How fun is that? This is awesome, marketing the newest game. it's i'm loving it they're online all the time so the thousand dollar question yeah why is this game not spike three come on man everybody's waiting i know people are holding back i know people that are a bit anxious about because the back box design is gonna change i know of people that are like oh if it doesn't fit in the game room with the other games i don't want that so i i thought this game would be Spike 3. The reason is probably when this game was going into development, the dev kit for Spike 3 wasn't ready yet. So they had to get moving on this game, and they weren't quite yet ready to put everything into production yet. I hope their next game will be Spike 3 and just kick some A because we're going to get better screen resolution, more screens, more power, better light shows. I mean, I remember I read about the limitations with how fast it could turn on and off the LED lights, how many, how fast, how many colors, and it had some limitations on this system, so come with the next one already, man. I will say, in X-Men's defense, they're probably using Spike 2 to the hilt right now. You know, they've had the system the longest for this game now, and so they're probably exploiting it to the maximum. So it's just kind of like a video game late in a console release when some of the best stuff's released i remember i think i don't know if i spoke to you about this don or if i spoke to erica about this but the idea of spike 3 if the rumor is true that it possibly one of the next titles could be pokemon for argument's sake the idea of spike the power behind spike 3 where we can use insider connect to play against someone in denmark yes right so they've got pokemon and I've got Pokemon. Because Pokemon is such a battle game, that game would change pinball forever. Denmark's going down. A little bit like Avatar did for the movie industry with the 3D goggles. Yeah. That changed the movie industry forever. I think if Spike 3 is they're just going to launch for Pokemon because they want as much power for that game, because they want me in Perth, Australia, to be able to play Don in Chicago or you in Denmark, right? Oh, man. And actually connect inside and connect to my machine, to your machine. Can you imagine if there's four of us in four different countries and we're all playing Pokemon together?
    54:12
    They should have a camera also like J.J.P. games so we could see each other. They probably will. Yeah, they probably will. Come on. I hope it's something like that. That could be magical, man. Microphone, camera, talk with each other. really multiplayer experience. That will take the younger generation and include them in our beautiful hobby. Can you imagine if a game is already mic'd up and camera'd up just for streaming out of the box so anybody can just take their game online and start streaming? That would be a game changer. Yeah, then everybody could be streaming it. I hope, Donnie, you need to share this video on Stern page and I hope that George Gomez is listening and put in a camera, put in a microphone I want to play pinball against Enzo play golf against him you could nominate for instance on your Insider Connect that I'm allowing my, the content that's being shot from their camera that they provide just a little camera at the top of the box there right, and then you could go on Insider Connect and go I want to watch a game on John Wick, oh there's a guy in Australia and there's a guy in Brazil playing with this right now. Yeah. Right? And you could tap in. Whoa.
    55:30
    Whatever, right? Getting goosebumps. That won't be expensive. That won't be, you know, the technology is out there. It can be. It's possible. And it could just take pinball to the next generation. We need something like that. It could be so cool. I mean. Look at the bright side. If Stern haven't come up with this and we just have, we've got on record. Yeah. So imagine you're playing against somebody, and then you can see their camera view from their machine, like, on your screen. So, like, as you're battling, you can face off with them literally. Yeah. It would be good to have a watch. You know, like, in some of the beautiful arcades in America where you've got the pinball machines and each one has a TV above them. Yeah. And I can see I'm standing behind you waiting for my turn, and I can actually watch you play, right? So the idea of me playing you and when I'm waiting, right, the screen, I can see your machine, right? Wow. Hoping the screen is a bit bigger. That would be wicked. That would be phenomenal. So you can also see if I took off the glass of my game, you know, touching the switches. I mean, don't you think? I mean, you could be proper tournament game like that. I mean, the possibilities will be, yeah, can't wait for the Spike 3. but I hope they include stuff like this. If not, I mean, if you guys remember when they released limited edition of James Bond, they didn't have enough transistors on the note board to activate all the pop-bombers. So the two pop-bombers on the LE are used with one transistor. So when the left pops, the right one pops simultaneously. So it was just maxed out, you know. They could maybe put in an extra note board, of course, but bill of material, guys. So I don't know. I have heard that Spike 3 will still use the same note board system that they're using right now. But I hope they will include fuses on the future note boards because I have seen some note board issues. And when they came out, they cost like $100 or something. Now they cost like $300 or something. and you can't get them in. Oh, my God. So fuses, that could be great. I think if you want to capture the younger generation and get them away from video games, the only way you can do that is evolve Insider Connect to multiplayer online global. Yeah. Because that becomes a game changer as a – it's an addiction for kids. My daughter, if she doesn't scan in, she has an aneurysm. Okay. There you go. she's obsessed with scanning in and leveling up her character, right? Now, that is a wicked way of pulling in a nine-year-old girl, not a boy, a girl, right? She just loves scanning in. So that, to me, Spike 3, if they don't capitalize on that, I mean, you know, because the interesting thing with video games, there hasn't been much lately that's been, I mean, I like playing video games, but there hasn't been a lot that's been, I mean, PlayStation, I don't know if you're aware of this, but PlayStation recently released a video game that only sold 675 copies online, and they pulled the game off the shelves. They've actually recalled the games. The people that have those copies of games are trying to flip on eBay now for $300.
    59:00
    They are shutting that game down. It's only been out for two weeks. I mean, I don't know if you have, Enzo, I don't know if you have watched my YouTube channel, RetroDango. I do pinball, but I also do retro machines. I have Commodore 64, Amiga games, and I'm still stuck in that era, 16-bit era. I love it. But with this, talking about your daughter, 9-year-old, they are accustomed to trophies. They need to shoot something, something, and get some trophies. It's just – and it feels like Stern is really – it feels like George Gomez is putting huge effort in this Insider Connected. Yeah, for sure. I'll tell you what. If they did a Spike 3 Minecraft pinball game. Oh, my God. That's it. There we go. That's it. Not only would you like – you would crash the internet, but you would get people buying – because Minecraft is an addiction. It's like crack cocaine for kids, right? it's good for them in a way because they're building stuff and they're my my son was playing minecraft when he was like three years old right and he was a machine like and if you i know the balls around but that's not stopping you from building a minecraft pinball machine on a spike three where you can log in and play against other people the same way that i said on a conversation with gonzo if we are struggling to get girls and young girls in there's only one way of doing that and that's releasing a Taylor Swift pinball machine.
    60:31
    I mean, come on. All right. Who do we want to make Taylor Swift? I think we should hand that to Jersey Jack Pinball. Yeah, that can happen. Take Taylor, make it the biggest spectacle of glitter, and then I as a man will buy that machine. Yeah.
    60:45
    Are you guys excited about Avatar as theme? Mm. Yeah. Mm. No. Theme excitement, it's not terrible. it's not fantastic, so it's just kind of right in the middle. Okay, so it's going to have to be the gameplay and what's in it that really elevates it. Godzilla was the same way, though. Godzilla wasn't a theme that I was wanting to have, but god damn if that game isn't amazing, right? But it was Keith Elwin. I know. And this is Mark Seidner.
    61:17
    Godzilla's nostalgic, though, right? I mean, everyone at some point watched a Godzilla film, so you gravitate to it because it's a big monster destroying stuff. with Avatar like yeah look it was still one of the highest grossing films of all time but like you know I quite enjoyed the LE that Stern did I thought the LE was great but it was in my opinion it's a bit limiting you know I think I jokingly said there's only one blue person for me and that's Beast from X-Men this guy's a fan oh man that's so cool man that's so cool I think the problem with Avatar was some of the images they released the one with the whale or whatever they call it looked like a kids colouring in book yeah I was joking with the Lisa Frank thing yeah I was like this just doesn't look right and at that point I thought it was a fake image yes I think I said to Don I think maybe their next game not Avatar and they're ghosting us.
    62:24
    They're red herring us is the word. I think it was something AI generated that somebody just shared you know because we had I think it was about two years ago when somebody began sharing Harry Potter images some AI generated it has got a huge castle at the back and yeah and we were all over the place for two days and I just found out about oh this is just AI generated. I mean how amazing we were talking about this the other day how amazing would be if the announcement actually is an avatar and now we're just stiffing it to everybody and then it is harry potter all right oh my god what a marketing decision can you imagine just make a troll game and have that images leak out so everybody has low expectations and you come out the door with like hogwarts okay so a thousand dollar question the 12th this month yeah jjp releases harry potter and it's eric Minion and it's just jam-packed and it looks great. Will you cancel your X-Men purchases and jump over to the Harry Potter? Be honest now. No. How about you, Donnie? I'll probably just buy them both.
    63:33
    That's the right answer. I mean, my brother Jay here, when we talk about Harry Potter, that's his number one game for location. He always says, when that team comes out, we will have it on all the locations, all the cinemas everywhere. Harry Potter, can you imagine how much money it would make? Man, come with that game. I generally think, just to answer your question before, even if Avatar did get dropped yesterday,
    64:06
    I still think X-Men would have still had the same impact. I wouldn't have changed the sales. For sure, but Avatar would have probably got more sales, I think. Possibly.
    64:17
    Possibly. But yeah, for sure. I mean, it has been a slow summer. People that had money to buy didn't even buy because all of this on Pinsa, don't buy, you will lose money, don't buy, wait, wait, wait, and see, don't buy. So people had some money in their pockets and it's a slow summer. Now games are being released. 99% is just so excited about X-Men. They have used their money on X-Men already. So it's just too late for the avatar.
    64:48
    I have an interesting opinion about this, and it's going to be controversial, but I'm going to say it. So this bullshit where everyone's going on, oh, you're going to lose money, you're going to lose money. I do audio, right? I've been doing audiovisual for 20 years, right? The moment you unbox a pair of $30,000 speakers, they're worth $15,000, right? The moment you buy a $50,000 car, you drive out of the showroom, it's worth $30,000, right? Now, everyone is this bubble of COVID that inflated pinball prices for such a long time. Like for me, right, I bought my Venom. It cost you $20,000 for an LE. And I know that if I sell that today, I'll get 15 for it, maybe 14 and a half, right? But I've used it for a year. I've enjoyed it. It's time to move it on. The fact that people are getting pissed off on pin side that they've lost four or five grand, I think that's normal. I don't think that's unexpectable. like I think we've been too lucky in this hobby right to only lose 500 bucks a thousand dollars on a game this is the norm the norm is to lose two to five thousand dollars on a pinball machine I don't know why people struggle with that concept like I've got a guy who bought not through me because we don't do the brand but he bought a two hundred thousand dollar pair of speakers right he passed away six months later and the store gave his wife more than what they really were worth because that was secondhand, right? You can't get the same money you paid for. Even if they're a limited number, I think they only did like, I don't know, 50 of them in the world. It doesn't mean anything. They're a secondhand unit that's electrical, that dates and ages, and there's no warranty on it, right? So this idea, like there was a guy in the comments the other day ranting about his Venom. I'm never buying an LE again because I lost $4,000 you shouldn have bought an LE in the first place if you were going to flip it yeah some guys have 19 games played and they want to sell their games that ludicrous yeah but look if you buy an le and you don gel with it right and you and it got to go because you just don't enjoy it that's a different story and i feel sorry for those people but you know some people get fomo they want to buy it before it sells out so i get it and you got to take the risk but again i know people that have bought a car and had nothing but problems with it or they didn't light the car, and then they've got to trade it in and lose 20 grand. Yeah. Usually you lose money on your hobbies. That's the way it is. Yeah, yeah. But it's a very interesting thing here because if we go just five years back, you could buy a game for $8,500 for an LE, and the week after you could flip it for $12,000. And all the content creators was like, Stern is sleeping. Stern is just losing money. all these resellers i mean some some some people bought two three four at least they got they had great thing going on with their distro friends and they bought five of those and you know and then some of them actually just hit the boxes for a year and then here look at this i got a brand new le 15 000 all of all of the um content creators were like these companies they're losing games, man, and all of a sudden, bam, the companies woke up. Bam! $3,000, $5,000.
    68:18
    Because why should I, as a flipper, buy a game for $8,000 and sell for $12,000? We had a guy in Australia who bought a Stranger Things premium and he paid $28,000 for it. Because back then, we didn't know we were going to get a second run of Stranger Things. Oh, no. Oh, man. $28,000 that machine sold for and then now you could order one to be honest the other day someone posted one up for sale he's had it for like a month he just doesn't like the shots and he lost $1,000 on it and it had like 80 plays on it or something but anyway it is what it is I mean resale only comes into play when you're going to sell your game If it's a game you know you're going to keep for a year or more and like it, then it doesn't really matter. Exactly. For these prices, when Enzo buys an LE instead of Pro Premium, then he has said to himself, okay, I like this theme. I have seen the videos. I like the layout of this game. It's, you know, it's just, I'm not a billionaire. I cannot just, okay, when Star Wars LE got announced and it was Steve Ritchie, I just bought the LE without knowing anything. That was a dumb thing to do. But other than that, I mean, when you buy an LE today for $13,000, $15,000, you have to be, you know, just sit down and use two seconds thinking about it. So, Enzo, do you need to, maybe from economy or space in your game room, do you need to sell one of your games to get the new one? Yes, it is a bit of space. It is space because I'm maxed out. I can't fit any more in. But also, I use toy money to buy toys, right? Okay. And when I sold my vintage gaming collection and vintage toy collection, that's how I got into pinball. And that money dries up very quickly when the machines cost $15,000 each, right? What vintage game collection? What are we talking about? Was it Nintendo? I had every console. If anything, I'll send you a video after this of my old room. I had probably one of, if not one of the biggest vintage kind of retro gaming collections in Australia, I reckon. They're very expensive today if you have got, you know, old Nintendo games and stuff like that. I had a boxed Zelda console, Nintendo 64 Zelda console, which was a variant that was only available in certain countries in Europe that sold for $8,000. Oh, my gosh. I'm so glad I didn't get into that copy. When I have an Amiga for sale here in Denmark, I have a lot of great Australian friends. All of them are just so happy and positive. I have never seen a guy from Australia that was negative and angry. But they want to buy my old Amigas, and they usually offer really too high prices. And I'm just like, easy now. Why did they say? Because we don't have the availability. It's so low in Australia. I don't know if the pinball market is like that for you guys also. No, pinball here, there's plenty on the market, plenty coming up every day for sale.
    71:41
    But the vintage gaming stuff definitely is a niche, especially Commodore 64 and all that. Oh. The problem with Australia is we're very spaced out. So I live in one of the most isolated cities in the world. Sydney is five hours by plane, right? Oh. So for us, getting pinball machines to us here is very hard. Like a lot of the ones that come up for sale are in Sydney and Melbourne, and for me to get it, I'm going to have to wait weeks before I can get it, and it's going to cost me $1,000 to get it over here.
    72:12
    Oh, my God. Because of how spacious Australia is. But that comes with the territory, I guess. It is what it is. Maybe that's why you had a bit of problem making and shipping games from Australia.
    72:30
    That's a subject. Let me touch on that because people have asked me for my opinion and I've waited a bit to discuss this. I gave him an opportunity a year ago to come on Gonzo's channel because Gonzo's channel, in my opinion, no disrespect to anyone else, He's one of the most Switzerland channels, right, because he doesn't – he never touches anything negative. We didn't discuss the tippies. We don't mention anyone else unless they're genuine good content creators. He is like the top gear of pinball, right? That's what I loved about his channel, right? If I wanted to pick up a magazine about pinball, that's Gonzo's channel, in my opinion, right? And I said to the guys at Haggis, I said, look, come on the channel. Let's address all these rumors. A year ago, right? We'll be diplomatic.
    73:29
    You give me the questions. I won't even ask the questions. You write it if you want and I'll read them. And he said, no, we're not doing social media at this point in time. All right? And then when Kerry did his video about Haggis the first time, that same – while his video was live, there was a text going around in Australia about an image of Haggis' factory being emptied right then and there, right? At the same time, coincidentally, that Kerry's video was on about Haggis. And it all blew up there. And I texted him again. I texted him. I said, dude, there's a lot of negativity. Everyone thinks that you're ripping people off. And if you have, this is the time to say sorry, right? Don't go into hiding. And I've got the text messages, right? And he never responded back. So I gave him an opportunity a year ago, right? Diplomatic a year ago because people make mistakes, right? And people want to be communicated with. And I'll tell you what, if you admitted that you had problems and you needed financial backing, I'm sure that if you had raised a fucking, whatever you call it, a fundraiser, right, the community would have pitched in 50 bucks each around the world to make sure Haggis survived. Yeah. But if you had said it two years ago and were transparent and not take people's money, right, and not rip people off, and it's very clear now that it was all done, calculated, because the equipment that was repossessed belongs in Australia. We have a thing called a PPSR, which is a registration over equipment, right? So if it gets repoed, they check the serial number and they go, that's registered to someone, so we can't sell that, right? His other company owns all the fucking equipment, right? So it was very calculated, right? So it was obviously, you know, he was never going to face the music. So that's all I'm going to say on it. I gave him an opportunity. It's not good for the industry. It's not good for pinball. It's not good for any homebrew Australian guys that want to make a machine. Not Blues Brothers, but I'm just saying, like, just jokes. Blues Brothers might be all right. I don't know. But it's just not good. We're already a small country. We're already 30 million people. It's a niche hobby, and he's just ruined it for the next Australian that wants to do something. Yeah, I would say as a fan of the industry, I don't think we hold anything against Australia or its people. No, no, no, don't get me wrong. It's over. It has nothing to do with it. It's those Ruby locks. It's just more if you're going to start a company, right? The problem is if I start a company today in Australia and I'm going to start making pinball machines, people go, well, the last Australian company didn't do well. Yeah. Right? Yeah. A lot of people are saying it's not possible to make a pinball company out of Chicago. I mean a lot of people have that mindset but yeah it's so sad man and you telling this story it gives me goosebumps I cannot fathom people can be like that but yeah I don't know what happened we just in there but let's just all congratulate Stern let's all congratulate Jack Danger I can't wait for Jax and Stern's next game because as we started this video they have set the bar so high now please don't come up with a lesser game bring your A game now man yes and this is how you can see now the LEs are gone almost gone it's so cool I bet you they wish they had more LEs this time around and you know what I bet you, I wouldn't be surprised if Stern goes, we're going to release another 811. Yeah. A black and white edition.
    77:33
    They're going to make a Wolverine yellow edition. Why not, man? A Jack's Red Kiss edition. Yeah. No, the Beast edition. The Beast edition will be blue and it will have fur on it and hair. And you'll have like, you know, The Beast Edition X-Men machine will be the best one. Forget powder coat. We're going to put velvet on the side so you can really grab his chest hairs as you're playing. Yeah, and pull it. That's it. I love it. We don't want flipper buttons. We want nipples. We could do the same thing with the Jeff Goldblum Edition of Jurassic Park. So you just rub your hands on his chest.
    78:08
    Man, guys, talking about this, talking about this, just an idea. But would you go into this? Enzo, you're saying you're a big fan of X-Men, the Marvel Universe. Yeah. So in three months, if Stern sent you on the screen on your limited edition X-Men game, it popped up and said, Enzo, you registered this game as Enzo. If you pay $59.95, you can get a Spider-Man pack mode code update. Would you do it? 100%. Oh, my God. Okay. How about you, Don? Would you do that? Big DLC, right? Yeah. Is that what they call it? DLC? Yeah, absolutely. I probably would. Do you think that will be included in Spike 3?
    78:57
    Oh, no. Let's not manifest this, man. See, DLC is honestly in-game purchases. Yeah. If Stern hasn't done, like, you know, again, with my kids, they'll be playing mine. Can you buy me this because I need more coins to buy this stuff? I need some V-Bucks. Yeah. I need some, yeah, right? So they're not going to spend it on that because it is a business. to make, right? This is a business. Either they sell this business or they float this business. I will say, in that model, though, a lot of times the original content is provided free and then you upsell and upgrade things. These machines are already super expensive and we're buying them on the basis that we know the code updates are coming. I don't think they can necessarily lean in it too hard.
    79:40
    No, I think it would be like you can get extra characters or you can get I don't know, whatever it is. Skins. But I'm thinking, I'm talking about deeper modes. Yeah. I mean, Godzilla, you can buy, it has got three tiers, right? Or is it two? I don't remember now. Does it have three tiers with monsters in Godzilla? Right, two or three. What about if they said, you know, $59.95, you will get tier number four with six new monsters you have to battle. I would buy it in an instant. Or if they said, okay, if you want to battle King Kong, you've got to pay $1.19 and then you get King Kong mode. I mean, with this X-Men game, they could make a Deadpool package. They could make a, you know, Spider-Man package. They could, you know, really upgrade that universe. I would buy that Deadpool package. I don't know how many characters, like eight characters from X-Men is included, right? Yeah, there's so many. There's hundreds of X-Men characters. But I think, honestly, like, to give you an example, with Elton John, if you complete a couple of the modes you get more songs but I'm never going to complete those modes because I'm not a good player but if you said to me for $60 you can have those modes and the songs I'm all in Venom I'm never going to be able to unlock Wolverine Venom and what's the other one? Captain America yeah just give them to me for $59 yeah that's it man I'll pay $99 for them How about songs? If you have Gone Through Roses and you can buy and knock on Heaven's Door, would you buy it for 19 bucks more?
    81:22
    A new mode? A new night show? Yeah, if it was like a new album had come out and it wasn't part of the original deal, and then you know they had to go back to the licensor to get approval and negotiate a fee, I think that would make more sense. Or if you could buy a Deadpool mode for X-Men and it would change completely all of the call-outs and add total new quests and total new everything else, I could see that working. But as far as just selling a skin, that would be a little difficult.
    81:51
    If they did this, also go back on their old catalog, it will just put new life on the old games. It could be, yeah, and in this way they could make easy money, man. They just need to program this once and no shipping, no nothing, just instant download, instant money. If they came out with, like, 2.0 kits later on, yeah, for their older games, titles. For sure, yeah. If I had a game that I loved but had been here for a long time, was considering selling, but, like, a 2.0 kit would come out?
    82:20
    For Munsters, I would buy that. I wouldn't be surprised if Spike 3 comes out, and I can play Don, and I can play you in Europe, and when that comes out, they go, look, we've given you Insider Connect for 10 years now. it's time you pay $10 a month for it. Right? Yeah. How many people are on Insider Connect at the moment, do you think?
    82:44
    A lot. Right? Times up about $10. Yeah. $100,000. People will pay. They wouldn't get angry about it. They may go, oh, really? But we subscribe to fucking everything now. Yeah. Absolutely.
    82:57
    So what's another $10? And no one's going to make it $5. $4.99 US. Yeah. Right? They've got $10,000. I'd love to know. I'd love to ask Gomez how many people are on Insider Connect. Times that by, you know, five bucks? They would have to have Insider Connect, like, plus or something, because there's no way you could get rid of the free service because of all the data that feeds back to them. But if there was, like, upper-level updates or some connectivity or something that's – Well, if you could play online, it gets you. Oh, yeah. That's it. Ten bucks a month. Insider Connected Game Pass. so so jjp had something similar that was called scorebit they removed that a year ago or something what do they have now nothing but apparently they're coming out with their own system and maybe that's ready and we're gonna see it oh yeah tell you what i'm gonna drive over there and i'm gonna ask him personally yeah so don you send me a message can you explain that right now do we have an exclusive deal with jjp just let let us hear all i know man all i know is i was consulted uh yesterday and i was invited on down on the 13th to come and check out this new game they got oh are you gonna film it are you gonna watch i don't know any other details other than i'm packing my stuff for chicago packing my stuff i'm driving down the road uh but yeah super excited about that more details to come so we'll see but yeah it sounds like they want to do kind of get more people involved in the launch of their games, which I love. If I was on the fence on this game and I could hear the opinion of somebody that objectively went and saw it, I think that would help me out in my decision.
    84:39
    Yeah. Wow. Congratulations, man. I'm looking forward to the content you're going to deliver. It's going to be awesome. And as I said earlier, I just hope that JJP makes it, sells more games, gets bigger, more competition is good. I can't wait. Yeah, I understand, man. All right. So, guys, if you want to check out more of Enzo's stuff, you can go into Gonzo's – what's it called? Gonzo's Flipperama. Gonzo's Flipperama on YouTube. Chris's YouTube channel. I pop up once or twice a month, maybe a bit less. Depends. Chris is a very hard man to get a hold of because he's also got a YouTube channel for West Ham Football United there because he's into the soccer. but yeah, Gonzo's Fliparama if you haven't subscribed, do it he's a great guy and it's a wholesome content Nice and people from the UK are crazy with soccer so that channel must be great absolutely, and if you want to listen more to Don, where can you do that Don? I'm over at Don's Pinball Podcast, you can email me at donspinballpodcastgmail.com we've got a Facebook page, we've got a Discord we're doing crazy stuff, I streamed WWE the other day on the YouTube page check that out I know. Yes! That was an interesting... There were so many people going, God, I hate this game. And I was like, really? Yeah. Don and I love that game, but everybody else hates that game. So you didn't answer Enzo, which game did you get rid of to get room for the X-Men?
    86:13
    I will probably get rid of Elton John. Oh. Because it's the only non-stern machine I have. and I only got it because, you know, there's been pretty big hype on the game and we had one available in Perth and it was right there in front of me and I was like, well, there's no point in sending this back because I really enjoy playing it. But the novelty will wear off because it's, you know, like Don said, it's a jukebox in a box, right? And it doesn't really, like, I love the experience of having it for a few months, but that will definitely go for X-Men. Okay. How about you, Don? I know you need room. What game will you put up for sale? You know, I was looking at John Wick LE, and as much as I love it and I want to see the code updates come, I want X-Men more. So I've got a deal potentially in the works for that. And Lebowski also hit Pinside. So if you want to get a sweet deal on Lebowski. John Wick LE? What? I'm surprised. I actually want to sell Lebowski more because I want to hang on to John Wick for a little bit. But if it came down to it, that's where I would go. I'm going to install my John Wick.
    87:21
    Yes, dude. Interactive pinball. I love it. You got the mod. All right. It came out like within a week to Australia, so that was fast. Amazing.
    87:31
    Awesome, everyone. All right, guys. And everybody, if you want to check out my videos, it's Retro Jango on YouTube. And I have made two videos with this beautiful X-Men game. So come in and check it out. And soon we will make Patreon. Right, Donnie? I'm working on it. It's on the list. Yeah, soon. We are pinball.
    87:54
    We're going to go on some Mac 10 here. I'm going to take you to Los Angeles. Don't let the palm trees fool you.
    88:02
    Email us at wearepinball69 at gmail.com. And we'll be back in a week with some avatar knowledge. Oh, yeah. For your face. Can't wait. Thanks to our guest Enzo today for joining us. Thank you. Donnie was right Enzo's a great guy welcome back anytime yeah yeah absolutely right alright later woo woo it's a wrap oh that was a great show guys yeah alright so I'm mutants detected.
    88:50
    Man, Jenkins sounds like a pinball machine. Someone call the tech. Yeah, he's our old robot. He's doing his best impersonation of the Sentinel. Yeah. Mutant voice detected.
    89:03
    We've lost him. We've lost him. This guy's cracking me. That's okay. I'll edit this out.