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Ep 51: Dumb and Dumber

Final Round Pinball Podcast·podcast_episode·55m 38s·held·Feb 24, 2022
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Analysis

claude-haiku-4-5-20251001 · $0.036

TL;DR

Final Round returns after break; covers Indus tournament, Stern heads-up challenges, and Rush/Godzilla machine impressions.

Summary

Jeff Lee and Marty Rosenthal return to Final Round Pinball Podcast after a six-week break, discussing their personal challenges (Jeff references legal/safety issues; Marty discusses Haggis transitioning from Kelts to Fathom production). The episode covers the Indus tournament in Riverside, CA, praising its game selection and competitive format, discusses Stern's Shoopy heads-up challenge, and includes detailed impressions of Rush and Godzilla pinball machines. Notable coverage of upcoming Yagpin event in Edmonton and community support during difficult times.

Key Claims

  • Jeff Lee had to involve lawyers and police due to security and safety issues involving personal information being shared without consent

    high confidence · Jeff Lee, 0:10:00-0:12:00, explicitly states 'it's sad that i had to get lawyers and police involved but everything's good'

  • Haggis moved production from Kelts to Fathom during the podcast's break period

    high confidence · Marty Rosenthal, 0:04:00, 'we moved from producing Kelts into Fathom'

  • Indus 2022 featured 65-70 machines for tournament play and had strong game selection including Stargate, Mystery Castle, and Rollergames in finals

    high confidence · Jeff Lee, 0:25:00-0:35:00, detailed tournament coverage with game specifics

  • Zach McCarthy, 16 years old, won the IFPA World Championship and is now considered a world champion

    high confidence · Jeff Lee, 0:33:00, 'I was handing 16-year-old Zach McCarthy the trophy'

  • Raymond Davidson, the #1 player in the world and two-time IFPA World Champion, has never won the IFPA Open despite finishing top 4 multiple times

    high confidence · Jeff Lee, 0:34:00, describing Raymond's tournament record

  • Rush pinball has excellent code with more to come, strong call-outs, and exceptional art design that appeals even to non-pinball enthusiasts

    high confidence · Marty Rosenthal, 0:44:00-0:48:00, personal experience with machine and wife playing it

  • Godzilla pinball provides too much constant action without pacing or moments of rest, lacking the light-and-shade feedback that makes games feel rewarding

    high confidence · Marty Rosenthal, 0:49:00-0:52:00, opinion on game design philosophy

  • Yagpin event in Edmonton, Alberta will have approximately 300 people and tickets going on sale following a website issue

    high confidence · Jeff Lee, 0:39:00, discussing mini Pinberg alternative event

Notable Quotes

  • “I felt like stepping away. I'm not going to say specifically what happened. My friends know, because why fuel the assholes who started it?”

    Jeff Lee @ 0:05:30 — Indicates serious personal/professional controversy that motivated the podcast break; vague on details to avoid amplifying negative actors

  • “just because you happen to find some information that you think is really exciting and you're going to be the first person to announce it to everybody doesn't mean you should”

    Jeff Lee @ 0:08:00 — Core issue: sharing personal/security information without consent for engagement; cautionary statement about ethical media responsibility

  • “Heads up challenges, as they stand, are the best video form of pinball to me. For the layman, I don't know if that's the best showcase for it.”

    Jeff Lee @ 0:21:00 — Discusses tension between competitive pinball media formats and general audience accessibility; questions marketing effectiveness

  • “I want to see players pushed to their limits of their skill. That is what I want to see in a tournament.”

    Jeff Lee @ 0:31:00 — Explains philosophy on competitive game selection; justifies difficult machines in tournament settings over newer crowd-pleasing titles

  • “Sometimes I think there just needs to be a bit of light and shade. That's what I've seen with Rush.”

    Marty Rosenthal @ 0:51:00 — Design philosophy critique of Godzilla vs. Rush; advocates for pacing and feedback mechanics over constant action

  • “It is making it more presentable to regular people... Heads up challenges are the best video form of pinball to me.”

    Jeff Lee @ 0:20:00 — Evaluates accessibility of different pinball video formats for mainstream audiences

  • “My wife is not a pinhead. Yes, she is a Rush fan. She goes and plays the machine when I'm not even there because she's finding it fun.”

    Marty Rosenthal @ 0:45:00 — Indicates Rush has broad appeal beyond hardcore collectors; strong theme-music synergy

Entities

Jeff LeepersonMarty RosenthalpersonLyman F. Sheats Jr.personStern PinballcompanyHaggis PinballcompanyInduseventIFPA World Championship

Signals

  • ?

    community_signal: Jeff Teolis experienced serious personal/security issues involving non-consensual sharing of information, requiring legal and police intervention. Community response was supportive and 'humbling.' Indicates vulnerable moment in public personality's life and demonstrates community solidarity during crisis.

    high · Jeff states 'it's sad that i had to get lawyers and police involved' and describes community support as 'very humbling' and evidence of backing/protection from harmful actors

  • ?

    product_concern: Haggis Kelts machines have an MR sticker quality issue that Jeff Teolis describes as 'a real what a fucking piece of shit.' Build quality otherwise praised, but this specific component problematic.

    high · Jeff Teolis: 'they're not crazy about that MR sticker though that's a that's a real what a fucking piece of shit this is is it toilet paper?'

  • ?

    manufacturing_signal: Haggis Pinball transitioned from Kelts production to Fathom production during the podcast's 6-week break. Marty indicates this was time-consuming but welcomes the additional focus time.

    high · Marty Robbins: 'we moved from producing Kelts into Fathom. And so that was really quite time consuming. So I welcomed the extra time to be able to focus on that.'

  • ?

    event_signal: Indus tournament relocated from Banning, CA to Riverside, CA. Venue improvements include multiple nearby hotels, improved food facilities with QR-code ordering, proximity to game lab. Despite logistics of moving 65-70 machines, hosts rate new venue highly.

    high · Jeff and Marty discuss new venue advantages: hotel proximity, food lab with 8-10 stations, farmer's market, no hour-long burger waits, QR ordering system; Jim Belsito's game lab proximity beneficial

Transcript

groq_whisper · $0.167

0:00
The Pinball Network is online. Launching final round pinball podcast. It's player versus player and player versus machine. Welcome to the final round.
0:58
I do remember our 51st episode because we're recording it right now, if that's what you're talking about. I'm at the age. Well, yes. Well, as you know, we have both turned 52. You obviously turned it a lot, a lot earlier than I did. I am now, what am I in? Four days into 52. There you go. Full deck of cards. That's the thing that I'm impressed about. Yep. Absolutely. I'm impressed we both got here. So, yeah, well done to us. It's been a while since we've recorded. Yes, it is. What happened, Jeff?
1:33
Just like that. Just rip the band-aid. We decided to take a break for a number of reasons. For me personally, you know, Haggis, we moved from producing Kelts into Fathom. And so that was really quite time consuming. So I welcomed the extra time to be able to focus on that. But what about you, Jeff? Well, let's just put it this way. There are bigger things in the world, and why we're recording is what you heard just recently when we did, hopefully, a nice tribute to Lyman Sheets, and that's what really made me want to turn the microphone back on. I felt like stepping away. I'm not going to say specifically what happened. My friends know, because why fuel the assholes who started it?
2:20
For those who are wondering, it's not criticism. People can shit all over me, Marty, our shows, whether it's head-to-head, pinball profile, or final round. Who cares? It's your opinion. You're right if that's how you feel. It has nothing to do with that kind of stuff. So things are more important in the world, and really, when we lost Lyman, that kind of put things into perspective. Are my problems as big as they seem? You know what they are. So yes, they were, but things have settled, and I'm glad to be back. There. I didn't answer the question. Okay. But can I, I'll try and answer it. And you can edit this out if you think this is giving too much away. But what I want to say is. Yes, they were nude photos.

Stern's Shoopy heads-up challenge was filmed at Jack Danger studio months in advance with primarily Chicago-based players due to COVID restrictions

high confidence · Jeff Lee, 0:17:00-0:19:00, explaining production logistics

  • Lyman F. Sheats Jr.' passing motivated Jeff Lee to return to podcasting after stepping away

    high confidence · Jeff Lee, 0:05:00, 'when we lost Lyman, that kind of put things into perspective'

  • “It practically did [break the internet]. No, but what it did do is two things. One, it was very humbling... Show those that want to cause harm that there's kind of this group that might have my back.”

    Jeff Lee @ 0:13:00 — References community support response during personal crisis; demonstrates tight-knit nature of pinball community during difficult periods

  • “I tell you what I love. The choice of machines they put in these tournaments because it's Jim Belsito... he loves to put quirky machines in that you've never seen.”

    Jeff Lee @ 0:25:00 — Praises Indus tournament curator for unconventional game selection strategy; explains competitive appeal of variety

  • “These games should be hard. It should show the elite players at their best.”

    Jeff Lee @ 0:31:00 — Core philosophy on major tournament game difficulty and skill demonstration; pushback against criticism of challenging machines

    • event
    Yagpinevent
    Stern Shoopy/Stern Heads-Up Challengeevent
    Zach McCarthyperson
    Raymond Davidsonperson
    [name withheld pending review]person
    Colin Urbanperson
    Jim Belsitoperson
    Jack Dangerperson
    Tim Sextonperson
    Raymond Davidson (code design)person
    Ed Robertsonperson
    Rushgame
    Godzillagame
    The Avengers (Premium)game
    Emoto Harneyperson
    Gene X Wongperson
    Derek Thompsonperson
    Robert Byersperson
    ?

    competitive_signal: Indus 2022 game selection strategy: difficult, unconventional machines (Stargate, Mystery Castle, Roller Games) chosen deliberately by curator Jim Belsito to test elite player skill and avoid boring, repeatable-shot gameplay. Demonstrates philosophy that major tournaments should showcase skill variance, not just new releases.

    high · Jeff: 'I want to see players pushed to their limits of their skill' and praise for Jim's Party Zone ramp modification that disrupts easy multi-ball patterns

  • ?

    gameplay_signal: Marty Robbins critiques Godzilla's design for constant action without pacing, contrasting it with Rush's 'light and shade' approach. Argues that games need moments of rest and feedback to feel rewarding, not constant stimulation. References Lyman Sheets' code philosophy as exemplary.

    high · Marty: 'It's everything is happening... Sometimes I think there just needs to be a bit of light and shade. That's what I've seen with Rush' and 'it's the ability to feed back to you that you've done something great'

  • $

    market_signal: Indus tournament venue shift from arcade-heavy setting to hotel/food-service focused setting signals industry emphasis on attendee comfort and social experience over pure machine density, supporting tournament accessibility.

    medium · Multiple improvements noted: hotel proximity reducing travel costs, QR-code food ordering eliminating long waits, farmer's market options, improved logistics for 65-70 machine transport

  • ?

    product_strategy: Rush pinball designed with dual appeal: hardcore Rush fans AND non-fans/casual players. Art, call-outs, and music resonate across demographics. Marty's non-pinball wife plays regularly due to theme engagement and game appeal.

    high · Marty: 'My wife is not a pinhead. Yes, she is a Rush fan. She goes and plays the machine when I'm not even there because she's finding it fun' and 'The call-outs are so good. The art is spectacular'

  • ?

    content_signal: Stern Shoopy heads-up challenge pre-taped in advance at Jack Danger's studio; features Elvira in recorded segments (cannot attend live). Format criticized by some as non-live but defended as practical production approach. Second Chicago-heavy lineup due to COVID logistics constraints.

    high · Jeff explains: 'filmed at Jack Danger's studio in advance quite some months ago... There were COVID restrictions... do I wish there were more people involved? yes'

  • ?

    event_signal: Mini Pinberg emerging in Edmonton, Alberta as 'Yagpin' with approximately 300 attendees. Ticket website crashed due to high demand. Derek Thompson organizing; event grows annually. Positioned as affordable alternative to major tournaments with good game selection.

    high · Jeff: 'they broke the internet officially' regarding ticket sales crash; described as attractive due to price point, favorable currency exchange, easy flights, and game selection

  • ?

    competitive_signal: IFPA World Championship format (64 qualified players, 2 per country plus top 32) requires demonstration of skill on both modern and classic games, distinguishing it from single-format tournaments. This format contrasts with criticism of other tournaments focusing solely on new releases.

    high · Jeff: 'you have to pick a new game a modern game and a classic game and you have to show your skill sets that's what makes it so good'

  • ?

    personnel_signal: Loser Kid Podcast crew interviewed Tim Sexton, Raymond Davidson, and Ed Robertson about Rush pinball development, providing insider perspective on game origins and architecture.

    high · Marty: 'Loser Kid Podcast have done a couple of shows about Rush. They had Tim and Raymond on, and then Ed Ed Robertson was on, who was really an architect in getting this done'

    • 3:03
    It was cold. It wasn't. Just so you know. Well, it might have been cold, but I'm telling you now, it made no difference. What I was going to say was just because you happen to find some information that you think is really exciting and you're going to be the first person to announce it to everybody doesn't mean you should. It doesn't mean that just because you've got information that's got some personal information that you should be showing everybody. You don't have to be a hero. You can just find it, keep it to yourself, and not impact everybody negatively around you. Is that enough to say it? Let's just put it this way.
    3:45
    I can take shots if it was just me. Go ahead. Fill your boots. We do it all the time. You sign up for that when you do a podcast, really. Yep, for sure. I'd like to think Pinball Profile is pretty impartial. It's not an opinionated show. This show is obviously me trying to be funny, trying to be a joke. We treat our guests like they're on Between Two Ferns, and we love it. It's great. But somewhere in between both those is probably the real me, as you know. and uh anyway shots at me that's fine when you're involving loved ones and other things like that and not just shots but security and safety that's that's a whole fucking other game and uh it's sad that i had to get lawyers and police involved but everything's good anyway thanks to everyone who helped out and my god holy shit i made a note that i was gonna step aside on pinball profile blew up. Yeah, broke the internet. No, no, but it did. It practically did. No, but what it did do is two things. One, it was very humbling, very fucking humbling for myself. Made me feel good. And the other thing it did was maybe, perhaps, should I say this? Show those that want to cause harm that there's kind of this group that might have my back. So go ahead. Yeah. Is that safe to say or stupid to say? No, I think that's fantastic to say. And I'm in a similar boat. When people trash the company I work for, I find that there's probably 10 times the amount of people that have got our back. so it's it's just it's bad to see the initial stuff but it's really heartwarming to see people that allies come to your aid so keep going guys we really do appreciate it i'll say it i'm not paid by haggis i'll say i love what you guys are doing i feel for the crazy freaking lockdown that you had i feel for the fact that you went to a whole new factory you hired all these new people I like that you've been transparent I think everyone I know that has owned a Kelts and soon to be Fathom are ecstatic they love the build quality they're not crazy about that MR sticker though that's a real what a fucking piece of shit this is it toilet paper? Oh it's a sticker anyway but I'm saying that Hup Challenge, I'm just going to put a big call out to them, they've streamed kelts twice they love it game of the year is what i heard might not get any awards for it but they said it um and we also had warlock warlock warlock and roll uh pinball also stream an unboxing um from joe's place at joe c and they love it as well people that get their hands on kelts love it i gotta see that one i did see the hop challenge one and i watched and i said to marty have you guys seen this at haggis like this is this is almost like a promo video the way they They were gloating over it. And I love what those guys do. Very, very creative. And you can catch them on TPN. I love what they're doing just outside of Pittsburgh there. I would say the most entertaining streamers we've got at the moment, without a doubt. They are hilarious.
    7:05
    Hilarious. They do know how to work video. It's not just stream and watch a game. There's a lot of great streamers. I've always liked what Manu Smith has done on Mystery Pinball Theater 3000. I love what George is doing with Don't Panic Flip. There's just so many, and it's not fair to name a few and not name them all because... Oh, there's so many that are great. Yeah, they really do a good job. So turn on Twitch. You're going to see one or two. And in fact, there's something going on on Twitch right now. This is Saturday night. It's February the 12th, the day before the Rams win the Super Bowl. So a little foreshadowing. And I guess going on right now is the Shoopy. This is another Stern heads-up pinball invitational. And sorry, we're not watching it right now so that we can be recording. I probably will try to catch it later. I'm fans of Emoto Harney, Tim Sexton, Jack Danger. I think they do a lot for the community. And kudos to Stern once again for giving away a pinball machine. So this guy right here is never going to shit on them for giving away a pinball machine. They don't have to do that. Yes, this is a marketing piece for them. It showcases, in this case, the Elvira game. It is up for criticism, and we're seeing a lot of it on Pinside and other things, Facebook. Oh, more Chicago players, eight Chicago players. Now, that being said, there were COVID restrictions. They had to be able to get to the similar machine. this was filmed at Jack Danger's studio in advance quite some months ago in fact so you have to understand that do I wish there were more people involved? yes, do I think it would be a better marketing piece? definitely because it's now the second all Chicago one and even really the first one had a lot of Chicago people but I don't want to stop Stern from giving away pinball machines that's all exactly, just enjoy it for what it is I think it's still a great production it's interesting when we know these people and we see it presented a certain way, it takes a bit of getting used to. But still, I think this format, and obviously, Carl D'Angelo does it with IE Pinball, it is still the most accessible way of being able to show pinball to the general public. You can follow what they're doing. You get the rivalries. You get the cutaways, all the interviews. It is making it more presentable to regular people. Heads up challenges, as they stand, are the best video form of pinball to me. For the layman, I don't know how many people are tuning in to Twitch for pinball tournaments that you want to get into pinball. I don't know if that's the best showcase for it. I think probably sizzle reels and those teaser launches are probably better as opposed to the first time we see a game on a stream or any kind of tournament. But for the hardcore people that are already in pinball, this is kind of unique and maybe what this does is showcase competition pinball to a nice extent. But, you know, I was recently at Indisc last weekend, and we'll talk about that in a second. But with this Shoopy coming up, there were some rumblings. And I tried to defuse as many as I could, but they were like, okay, well, it's all taped in advance. It's not really a heads-up because they're not, you know, doing it side by side. The true heads-up thing are two machines and you go at the same time. Well, this is done in advance. And, you know, there are people saying, well, they can manipulate that. And I don't like to think about things like that. But I'd like to see the real heads up challenge once again, once we're out of these restrictions and stuff, because they are a lot of fun to play. And you usually see them after like the Stern Pro Circuit. There's usually a big event there. So hopefully we can get back to that. I think we're getting there. Yeah, I'm not bothered about whether it's live or not. I like the fact that it's showing a good competition. The other thing as well, you've got freaking Elvira herself actually doing some clips in between as well. You can't get her live in the studio to do some commentary, so give them some slack. And if they can't do it this way, they probably won't do it. So just be happy that it exists. It is a big benefit. There are so many pluses, like you mentioned, with Elvira and Cassandra and what Tim and Jack are doing, what Emoto is doing. I know how much hard work Emoto has put into the production of this, and I saw it firsthand at Indus. So we should probably talk about Indus, not in Banning, California, in Riverside, California. Yes. I know it is your most favorite tournament of all tournaments. Yep. Let me tell you, Marty, 2022 lived up to that hype, even at the new location. If Pinberg was still around, would you rate it higher than Pinberg, or would you still say Pinberg's your fave? Pinberg is my favorite social tournament. Oh. It's only one tournament. And for me now, with what's going on with Whoppers and IFPA and rankings and all that stuff, and travel, I have to look at what is best for my travel dollars. Stephen Bowden, when he was on a recent show, we talked about, okay, what makes you circle this on the calendar? Oh, there's more than one event. And Pinnberg did have more than one event. Sometimes there was a pre-golf event. Not exactly the greatest one. Yeah, it's not that good. But there was also the, what was the big one they had? The Intergalactic. So there were two. But really what Pinnberg was for me, yeah, it was a fun tournament. 160 people got paid out of 1,000. and that's pretty freaking cool. The stage was awesome to watch. The streaming was good. The commentating was good. Of course, the gameplay was fantastic. It was exciting. You got to see unique games. It's not just a sternament, and I'm not knocking stern games because I love stern games, but it's not always the newest games. It's a nice mix of everything. So that's what I loved about Pimberg. But, God, Indisc. For tournaments, no, I'd say Indisc is my favorite tournament. Do you know what I love the most? This is what I've got to tell you. being there, I've been to Indisc twice. I've watched it every time it's been streamed. I tell you my favourite thing. My favourite thing is the choice of machines they put in these tournaments because it's Jim Belsito. You're being Jim Belsito constantly, but he loves to put quirky machines in that you've never seen. And I love seeing these games streamed. Barb Wire was in the main bank when I went to Indisc once. another Gottlieb Premier was Waterworld, was also in the main bank. What was the quirky one that we had this year, Gottlieb Premier? Well, there was Mystery Castle. That was the Alvin G game, but you had a lot of interesting games. Stargate we saw, your favourite. Stargate, Stargate, that was the Gottlieb Premier. That was just crazy to see that. Yeah, and if you're watching that game at home, if you've played Stargate, you kind of want to have a nice little half plunge to get it to go on the left out lane to start multi on ball one and three That was a hard plunge It was very difficult to do If you gave it too much it would go off the back end and then just go to the upper right flipper If you didn give it enough it will fall on the right in lane So what is normally an easy shot, and I assume Jim had something to do with this, was to avoid easy multi-balls. He did things like this. He did things like on party zone, which is a pretty easy game to play, right? Shoot that left ramp, the rocket over and over and over again, comes back to the right flipper, piece of cake, do it again. On his game. No. He said it's the cheapest and greatest mod he's ever put on a pinball machine for a tournament. So as it goes up the rocket and comes down that clear ramp and does kind of a 360, at the top of the 360, he basically put a screw in the ramp so it bumps off the ramp and falls into the pops. Yep. That's it. And it made it hard. You've got to survive the pops. So, oh gosh, it was fun. And every competition player loves in disc because of you mentioned the quirkiness and how great players and we saw a lot of them on stream learn to adapt learn to figure out games they don't know like that mystery castle game learn shots they're not familiar with and it was just so bloody exciting and remember this please we're this show is obviously airing after other podcasts have aired and it's airing after i assume the pinball show and zach made mention on the previous episode his solo episode about how he didn't really enjoy that roller games stargate and mystery castle were in the finals and not one person at the event felt that way and i'm telling you that i mean it was yeah godzilla was there it would have been nice to see because that's a that's a new game and it's a great game turtles was there another newer game but i've seen them i've seen those games i've seen them stream yes I don't need to see them in a tournament. I want to see players pushed to their limits of their skill. Now, you know I owned Roller Games. It is the first game I ever bought. And I bought it because it was a really difficult game. It's a really hard as nails game. And to have that in a tournament, you saw it was pushing these players to the limits of their skill just to be able to get a multi-ball started. That is what I want to see in a tournament. And it's the Open. It's a major pinball tournament. These games should be hard. It should show the elite players at their best. And also, it should show games that aren't going to be boring to watch. I mean, there were a couple where, you know, the players find the shot that's repeatable over and over again. The games they chose, particularly those three, they just showed the varying skills that players have to get top scores. So in the semifinals, Kaylee George, who is arguably one of the greatest players today and has been for many, many years. I mean, he is remarkable with his knowledge, his skill set, his flipper skills. You name it, Kaylee can do it. He had, going into ball three of shadow, 7 million points, which basically plunge, flip, drain, plunge, flip, drain, now start ball three. He had to make the difficult upper combos to get back into the game, and he did. And it was crazy to watch. So that was, I mean, the crowd there was going, oh, every time. It was just something to see. And then, of course, he had to go player one, so then the other players did it too. it didn't matter, Kaylee got through it was something and that's what we like about these competitions and you think about it, okay? Pinberg, Papa, even the EPC, now the Open and the IFPA World Championship they all are major pinball tournaments, the pinnacle of all pinball tournaments they all have one thing in common they're not all modern games you have to show your skills on different sets of games the ifpa world championship in which only 64 people get to play two from every country and then the top 32 players beyond that you have to pick a new game a modern game and a classic game and you have to show your skill sets that's what makes it so good i honestly i'm laughing because i thought you were going to say they all have one thing in common josh hasn't won them i honestly thought that was going to be your prime opportunity to put one of those digs in And it's true. I was handing 16-year-old Zach McCarthy the trophy in which he is now considered a world champion. And Josh's name was on me. I'm like, here he is, 16. You are now a major winner. And I gave a dirty look to Josh. He gave me the finger on the street. I'm like, oh, well, it's a way to stay classy. But my God, he's a good player. They're all good players. Holy cow. Raymond Davidson, the number one player in the world for a few years now. In fact, a two-time IFA world champion. He can't crack the IFPA Open. He's finished second, third, and fourth. He's never been able to get up there. And, I mean, he had great finishes being top four again this year, but that's one that eludes him, that big major. It's not easy to win. Colin Urban, the guy came second two years in a row. Oh, he's a good player. And he only shows up at the last minute, too, because he's in school. So he doesn't get a full week of playing like other players. Something to see. Speaking of something you say, one thing I love, oh, God, I love it. When you're watching these games, you can never, ever count somebody out. The number of third ball comebacks I saw in the finals was unbelievable. And I think Colin was one of them that did it. And Zach as well. You just, Kaylee as well. I just want to show you the details of these games, but it happened so long ago. But you look at the ball and you think this person has got 300,000. They're chasing down 20 million. And then they do it. and you just go, this is what is great about watching competitive pinball. These comebacks are phenomenal. ZMAC on game one of the finals had 300,000 in roller games with, I believe, zero locks. Yep. Hit a lock, hit a pit for an insta-lock, and then got the third lock to start multiball, hit the jackpot. He went over the four million mark to get the four points in the first match. You're right. He looked like he was dead in the water. But holy cow, that's such a fun, fun event, and I hope he can get there next year because Jim, Bob, Carl, Jay Collins, these people just did a wonderful job. And you can't say a bad word about InDisc. The game selection, you're right. The variety, the trivia leading up to it. Holy cow. I've never seen so many people interested in this trivia thing. And it's fun. I just don't have a chance in getting it. But, my God, they get right into it and try to solve clues. It's like a bunch of Scooby-Doo cast members in their mystery machine trying to find out who haunted the amusement park. It's great to watch, and I had a lot of fun with Emoto Harney and Gene X. Wong, some of the other media members. That tournament is already circled on every single year. InDisc, you've got to go. How would you rate the new venue compared to Banning? Great location. I mean, and I say that losing all those wonderful games, but because I was always in tournaments, I really didn't get to explore the other games. That's not true, because if you were in a queue for half an hour, okay, I've got half an hour. I'm going to walk over and maybe play another game that I haven't seen in a while or find one I haven't played. But that aside, you had three, four hotels right there, so you didn't even need a car. That's a big expense saving. You had this incredible food lab with, I think, eight or ten different food stations and just delicious. On Saturday, they had a farmer's market on the road, so you want fresh food. I don't know many pinball players that decided to do that, but myself included. I mean, it looked nice. It smelled good.
    21:48
    Well, that was your biggest criticism. And one of mine as well was your choice for food was quite limited. And I remember last Indisc, I had to wait an hour for my burger. Yeah, no, none of that. I mean, you could order in advance. You just type in, get the QR code and order in advance, go pick up. This place is great. I hope they go back. If they don't go back and they go somewhere else, that means they found somewhere better, which is incredible. but it was close to the game lab, which where Jim Belsito has many of his games. I actually ventured into there and I know Carlos Del Cerda and Billy Brown, the third, he was there with Bob Caldwell. They were playing some games and what a great lineup that is. They have a big pinball at the lab tournament that goes on in Southern California. So it's a perfect place. It was close to Jim's studio or repair shop or what you will. So it made it a lot easier. I say it made it easier. These guys had to haul in 65, 70 machines that was a little different because they had to get everything there for the classic target match play but god was it fun and zero complaints with indisc well done guys awesome i i said to you i i wish i was there and watching it just made me wish i was there even more i do i really do just love that and you know going back to what you're saying i have always said that i felt that Indisk was the best social tournament. And I think mainly because the bulk of the days that you're there, you're putting in obviously now the card format. So you can put a card and in between just talk to people. And that's why I found it more social. Whereas Pindisk, Pindisk, Pindisk, Pindisk is what I said. Pinberg, obviously. You're in your groups for a couple of hours and then you've got a break and then it's in your groups again. So it's more focused on the tournament side of it, whereas I found that Indisc has more of a balance between tournament and social. Yeah, I mean, I miss Pinberg. I miss it big time. And fingers crossed, there will be some sort of Pinberg in the future. I wouldn't bet against it. Let's just say that. There's a mini Pinberg, if you will. I think it's like 300 people in Edmonton, Alberta. And tickets are going to go on sale next week. They were supposed to go on this weekend, but there was a bit of a snafu with the website. No big worries. Yeah, they broke the internet officially. Well, you know what? That just shows that there was a big demand. So that's pretty exciting that they're going to be coming to Canada to play in this. It's a big, big event. Again, why is this attractive? The price point's good. It's cheaper if you're an American. The Canadian dollar is not as good as the American dollar, so your money will go further. Easy flights, certainly, if you're on the Western side. Easy Flights if you're in Canada, and just a great selection of games. It'll be my third or fourth time to Yagpin. It gets bigger and better. Derek Thompson does a wonderful job. Maybe we'll get him on the program and talk about it. He's a neat character. And he has a fucking thick Canadian accent. You think I do? No way, man. This guy, he is from the Great White North. And yeah, so we'll watch for those tickets to go on sale, and I think it'll do very well.
    24:57
    Marty, it's been, what, six weeks or so since we've done a show. Not including, of course, the Super Bowl show we did with the sponsors and, of course, our Lyman tribute. But what we haven't done in a while is collect a paycheck. I think we need to do that now. It is our sponsor of the week. Martin, you know how you've been complaining about how hot your summer is in Australia? You have no idea. It's unreal. Well, then have I got a place for you. Canada.
    25:30
    It's a beauty way to go Sure, our love of hockey is maybe a bit too much, but it's a great place to visit. I've been to Canada, and I loved it. Oh, but this winter has been special here. And I'm not even talking about places like Winnipeg, where you have to plug in your car heater just to fire up your vehicle in the minus 40 degree temperature. What I remember is that you could drive short distances to different cities, unlike here. Well, let's just say our highway drives are a little different now. Do you like trucks? Lots of them? Okay, you know I hear that Ottawa is lovely. Sure, and you can save money by not staying in our igloo hotels. Just park your car or truck wherever you like. You want downtown? No problem. In front of Parliament? Join the many. I know with places in the US, like Niagara Falls or Detroit, it's just a short drive across the river. Ah, short in distance, yes. But if you have five or six days to cross the bridge, yeah, come on over. What about the food? You know I love food. Every Canadian meal comes with maple syrup, donuts, poutine, ketchup chips, and fireball whiskey. At least my meals do. Hmm. Canada, eh? It seems like it's more than just Celine Dion and Rush. Eh, sorry, it's not.
    26:48
    So, something that's also happened in that time that we had off. I can't believe it was six weeks, by the way. I thought it was like maybe three or four. Anyway, in that time, I believe you have received your Rush machine. And I want to find out about your Rush machine. But first of all, I just want to say this. I was extremely down on Rush. And I've still not played it because, you know, these machines. I've still not played Led Zeppelin, just as an FYI. I'm going to tell you right now, after watching a lot of streams of Rush, I would own that machine. There you go. I've said it. unbelievable layout. Love the Borg layout. The shots are so much fun. I find it, I would say the shots are kind of easier than most Borg shots, with the exception of the upper flipper shots. Those are difficult, but everything on the lower flipper, I'm having some ease in hitting those, with the exception of maybe the stand behind the three drop targets on the bottom left That a tough shot too But that all said the code and it only at at the time of the recording still has a lot to go It another great code from Tim and Raymond and there's so much to do on this game. And I'll tell you this, my wife is not a pinhead. Yes, she is a Rush fan. She goes and plays the machine when I'm not even there because she's finding it fun. The call-outs are so good. The art is spectacular, especially if you're a Rush fan. And I gotta say, I don't know if you heard it or not, but Loser Kid Podcast have done a couple of shows about Rush. They had Tim and Raymond on, and then Ed Robertson was on, who was really an architect in getting this done. Fascinating to hear how this game came about. Good job on the Loser Kids for putting those interviews together. Yeah, this game is great. I'm so glad I've got it. Awesome. Yeah. Do you know what I like about it? Okay. I'm going to say something that's going to probably be a little bit unpopular, but I'm going to say it. Uh-oh. I played Godzilla I know where you're going I didn't love it How many times did you play it? I played it three times And I was okay with it I tell you what I love the layout The way it shoots is fantastic What I don't love Is that it's Everything's there at once Everything's flowing Everything's happening Dare I say Because I know it's been done to death And it's become a bit of a cliche But it doesn't stop and give you a moment and make you feel like you've done something great. It's everything is happening. You've done something great, then great, then great, then great, and then monsters, and then this. It's all a bit too much. Sometimes I think there just needs to be a bit of light and shade. That's what I've seen with Rush. Rush is feeding back to you. And it's what we said about the Lyman games when I was talking about his code, is it's the ability to feed back to you that you've done something great. But it's not like you've done something great constantly. because that can be a bit fatiguing. This just stops, makes you feel good, then lets you focus on what you'll need to do next. Sometimes I think less is more is what I'm saying. There you go. I played it after InDisc with Robert Byers, who's certainly a much better player. And by the way, congratulations, Robert. Yeah, he won Classics 1. He did, yeah. He's a great player. I mean, we kid him, we make fun of him because, well, it's easy, first of all. But he's a freaking great player. Anyway, he was teaching me Godzilla a little bit. I know where the shots are. It was the things like, okay, explain the allies, explain the jets, explain the trains, the tanks, and all that kind of stuff. And that helped me a little bit because I haven't been able to figure that out. I know when I go into the scoop and start a mode and pick a monster to battle, I know where the shots are. I get that kind of stuff. It's the other things I didn't really understand. And I think that's a game that's going to take a while to learn. I think there's a lot there. I think you will enjoy it the more you play it. I certainly would like to own that machine. In fact, I'm getting an Avengers Premium, part of my Stern Rewards program, and I might automatically flip that for Godzilla. Although I really want to play Avengers, and I know my son does too, but I really am liking what I see in Godzilla. I like the call-outs, I like the music. Jerry's done a great job with the sound effects.
    31:08
    And I don't know. Man, Keith, jeez. I know you hate him and want him dead But the guy makes good games It's not that I want him dead I actually killed him So just to clarify that Again, layout wise Shot satisfaction Kinetic satisfaction It is absolutely all there I guess the other thing for me is I know they went with the Toho Godzilla I don't know I just would have loved it to be a bit more gritty A bit more suspenseful A bit darker it is quite comical it does remind me a bit of Batman 66 and Elvira you know where they've got the old 50s, 60s radio announcer that kind of stuff so that's cool that's obviously they've gone for that campy Godzilla I would have loved a really dark gritty Godzilla I don't know how many of those movies and I haven't seen them I know Ron Howlett's an expert and I think he's seen most of them I think the first Godzilla movie I believe and I don't know this This is what I've heard secondhand, is the one where Godzilla really went and killed people. He was definitely a bad guy. He was the enemy. Whereas other movies, it was like, oh, Godzilla will save us. And that's when it got a little campy. Okay. So I don't know if there was as much a selection of that kind of grittier Godzilla. I know they tried to do it with some of the 90s remakes and then some of the newer ones. But those are kind of swing and miss movies. Whereas I really want to see the original black and white one. I hear it's the best. And the one where you see Godzilla kicking the little Godzilla to get back into play on the ball save, pretty funny. But those are like super campy movies. Yep. Yeah. I'll say one thing about that game, and then I'm going to bring this up for all games, every game that has a lower scoop. Okay? I talked to Keith about this specifically at InDisc. I don't know if this is my new action button pet peeve, but let's just call it this, all right? Yep. If you have a scoop near the bottom, which most of them are, I do not understand why programmers don't put in an automatic one-second ball save. In single ball play, they don't need to do it in multi-ball, but in single ball play, if you have taken the time to hit a difficult scoop, and they're tight like they are on Kiss, they're definitely tight on Rush. It's a far bottom right shot on Guardians. There's, of course, the one on Metallica. Fox Kelts has one in the center. And Godzilla has the one on the right. If it kicks it out and throws it down the middle, there is nothing that pisses me off more in pinball when that happens. And I can only imagine how much it would piss me off on location. So why not put a one-second ball save on there? I don't understand that. I've heard people say, well, it's not supposed to go there. Well, that doesn't matter because things adjust. Maybe it's not at the right level. Maybe the cliffy, like we see in Rush. Maybe that's bent and it throws it everywhere. In fact, my rush game, it's fine now, trust me. But when I first got it, if it went in the scoop four times, one time it would hit a sling, another time it would hit the left flipper, another time it would hit the right flipper, and the other time down the middle. And when it went down the middle and I lost my ball, I said I'm not going to play it until they put a ball save on it, and they did immediately with the .86 code. So why aren't other people putting, and you're going to be doing games, why don't people put on a one-second ball save when there's a scoop? Answer me, damn it! Yeah, I feel like somehow you're making me responsible for that. I do not know.
    34:39
    But as you see, they are seeing these games go out, and then they're seeing that it's a problem, and then they're putting a one-second ball safe. What machines now still have that problem without a ball safe? Because you know it's the next code update for Kelts has got a ball safe for that exact reason. Oh, really? Yeah. What machines haven't addressed that issue? I mean, obviously, the first one I knew of was Kiss. Kiss, for sure. Even on the Demon, right? They threw it on there. Well, I had two games that would do it. Guardians, which I sold to get my Rush. If you hit the orb, two things would happen. It wouldn't throw it down the middle, but they had that almost like seance magnet that it would do it, and it would always go in the left out lane. So what do I do? From the orb? Yeah. I got to turn that off. Yeah. Because if I'm in single ball play and I hit the scoop, or not the scoop, the orb shot, I don't think I should be punished by it throwing it by a magnet immediately to the left out lane where I can't save it. So disable that. My Simpsons pinball party, which I still have, maybe one in 20 times if you hit the itchy and scratchy, it might throw it down the middle, and that's really close to the flippers. There's no time to save that. I've seen it happen on location for Metallica games. I've seen it happen a few times. I'll tell you the big one for me. Star Wars. The Tatooine scoop on the right. coming out of that happens all the time where it goes down the middle we've seen on adam's family's games i mean how do you avoid that that's how you start a mode you have to hit it and then you got to survive the scoop fuck that put a one second ball save on it and i did ask keith and he said it won't ever hit it in godzilla it'll always hit a flipper or something and i said well if it hits a flipper then why does it matter to put a one second ball save on if it's going to hit a flipper it doesn't matter anyway but he did make a good point i don't understand the logistics of it maybe you do he said sometimes putting that one second ball save on kind of confuses the programming of it yes okay so that's a fair sometimes hey that's that's fair but it's a lot of code it's a lot of coding to get it right but he's he's the other thing as well that you've got to be mindful of is can it in a way give somebody an exploit and that's potentially what it can do thanks kaylee Yes. Actually, you're right, though. You're right. No, that's because I had a big, long conversation about this. Just, you know, Jeff, you wrote to Greg Silby and said, hey, can you put a one-second ball save on? He told you? Yeah, of course. I didn't know. We had a big, long conversation about it. And what he has to program in there, putting a one-second ball save, it's actually relatively easy. but then what you've got to think about is what can that do in the wrong hands you know what would kaylee do if he had a one second ball save would he be able to fire it back hit something and then drain and still get his ball back and then that's an exploit when when it doesn't go down the middle you know what i mean so that's that's just what you've got to be mindful of when you put these things on. But why can't that just be considered a reward? You hit the scoop? Congratulations. You got a one second ball save. It's no different than a skill shot. Yeah. What I'm saying is, you're absolutely right, but what I'm saying is, you can't just turn on a one second ball save because Jeff Teola says it. Yes, you can. Well, you've actually got to think about... Do you know how much fucking weight I have in this podcasting world? You damn right you can.
    38:06
    You've got to think about, can it actually be exploited? Can it somehow confuse your code, which is absolutely what it can do. That's what Keith was implying. Well, it's true. You can't just go, okay, you've told me next day, here's a code update with a one-second ball safe. You've got to test it. You've got to see how can it be exploited. You've got to see how can it break the code. So he's right, and I can tell you that was a big conversation that Greg and I had this week. So little snitchy Greg told you I emailed him. Well, we talk about code all the time, so obviously. I work for the same freaking company Of course we're going to talk about this I call him a snitch for those that don't know Because Greg purchased something Over a year ago It was called a Reach Around Award In which I wasn't allowed to talk about One of my greatest victories ever I thank him nearly every day for that It was a dirty move Actually I like Greg Even though he had that moment of weakness there That's good that they're implying it The reason I'm saying it is I think in fact was the Hup Challenge on Twitch I saw some of those scoops go down the middle, and that wasn't on location. I thought, oh, that's unfortunate and might discourage people. I know it was when I was playing Rush, and now if it goes down the middle, I don't care. I've got a one-second ball save. I think Aerosmith was like that too. It's the same kiss scoop, right? The crank it up. It's a little more to the left. Yeah, it's a lot more to the left. But there were some problems there, and I don't know if there's a ball save on that. But anyway, the potential is there for it to go down the middle. So if there's a way to put a ball save on it, it's one second. Again, remember this too. In that new code update for Rush, it doesn't give you a ball save if you're in multi-ball. I think that's a good thing. There's an option for it, but the default is if it goes in the scoop and goes out during multi-ball, too bad. I'm fine with that. Yeah, okay. Well, look, just to bookend that, the one thing I've really learned to appreciate, which I kind of always do, but it's again what Keith's saying, and I just really want to accentuate this now. coding pinball is freaking hard because of its randomness when you can have this this framework there everything coded there and it's all great it's when events collide that you can break the logic and it can break the code so my hat honestly goes up off to first of all greg silby because he has to program this stuff and it's a logical nightmare is what it is. But then when you've got these ultra complex rule sets and they're like, oh, we've now updated this. I'm not just not looking at these updates going, oh, that's easy. I'm looking at this going, that was complex to code and to game test this would have been a nightmare. So hats off to all those people that are coding because it's really freaking complicated. I can tell you now. Do you want me to cut that clip for when your Fathom comes out and just as a little safeguard there? Look, he was foreshadowing, all right?
    41:06
    Yeah, there you go. It's just not that easy, people, is all I'm saying. We don't have Ryan C here, but let's get a Haggis update. How are things going? I saw the production switch over to Fathom. Very exciting. Yes. And anything you can tell us? No. Worst interview ever.
    41:25
    I've said this a long time. I can make my little comments. I'm a podcaster and I'm a commentator, so I do kind of make comments where I can, but I'm not the spokesperson for Housers and I don't want to be. That is obviously the one and only Dr John It Damien and I leave that to Damien But right now our focus is on getting Fathom out the door So that's our focus. I know that there's probably more social media stuff that we should be doing, and we're going to be. But right now, it is just making sure that the first games that go off the line are the best they can possibly be. I know you're excited. And now that we've got all the feedback from Kells, people saying it's the best built machine. And I think someone, it might've been Warlock, said it's like the Rolls Royce of pinball, which is obviously a great honor. But that's now the standard we've got to meet for the next game. So we are making sure that we are getting it absolutely spot on before it goes out. Marty, I would rather the time being taken to make these quality builds versus rushing to get them out as quickly as possible and having all kinds of problems. The fact that you take the care in each machine each one is play tested it's not just passing an eye test it has to pass physical tests that in the long run is going to matter more than oh i wish i had it a month earlier well as you know with me it's got to pass the playability test and you joked about it earlier because you're a fuckwit but they do say there is a sticker that has my face on it that says mr approved they do not leave the factory unless I feel that they are the most fun that someone can have with the game. And I put a lot of pride in that. And every fathom will have the same thing. And I don't know whether I should say this, but I have rejected machines, play fields. I've just gone, no, I don't think our customers will accept this. Take it back. And here's all the lists of fixes that I need for you to make. And then when it comes back and it meets my standard, then it can go out. You make that sound like a negative. That's a 100% positive that there are standards. Well, yeah, internally, I'm sure it is from the outsider, but that's a commercial impact internally. But that's just the standard that we want to meet. We want to be known for quality. Jeez, what customer would complain about that? I don't know of one customer that would complain that, holy cow, this had to pass all these safety measures and quality control. Give me that any day of the week, especially when you're making a big purchase like a pinball machine. So kudos to you. By the way, I got a lovely gift from the Clan Haggis. I assume everyone else did. What a great kind of Christmas package. We haven't talked since then. So thank you, Damien, and everybody for putting that together. I was going to say, thank you, Georgia. I know Damien had squat deadly to do it. I could tell it was classy. It was such a nice ornament. It was actually really good. Yeah.
    44:37
    Sorry, Damien. It was so nice to receive that, and I know other Clan Haggis members enjoyed it. So thank you very much. Anyway, enough Haggis for now.
    44:47
    We'll look forward to the updates, and I know they're coming fast and furious. So thank you. I guess we were nominated for something. a PIA, Pinball Industry Award. Were we? Yeah, you don't know? No, were we? I love that you don't know. I, well, I know for what category. I'm sorry.
    45:12
    No, I watched the PIAs too. Again, really, really top-notch production. But I didn't, you know what? I was, I just, I was interested in the winners. I don't know. Is that a normal thing? I just cared about the winners. I didn't really remember the nominees.
    45:30
    Yeah, I haven't watched any award show in its entirety three years now. But I am curious who the winners are and all that kind of good stuff. I figured Godzilla would clean up. I was told about the wonderful tribute that Greg and Zach did to Lyman. Holy shit. Oh, my God. That was so gut-wrenching. It was such quality. Made me ball. It was beautiful and so touching. They did that right at the start. So again, Greg, Zach, thank you for putting that together. And yeah, I guess, you know, even though those Twippy assholes think we're actually pond scum. They think we're trash. They think we are absolute bottom of the lake. You know, they thought that for Loser Kid a year ago when they weren't nominated for Twippies. And then PIA said, you know what? You guys are good. You know, here's our award and well-deserved. I think we got the same kind of sympathy thing, right? Yeah, in this year that we didn't get nominated for Twippie. And this year, the PIA said, well, you're pretty mediocre.
    46:32
    Hey, you know what? That was nice. But should we stop this podcast? I mean, if we can't be a top 10 podcast according to Twippie, why are we doing this? isn't that every isn't that the whole reason why we're doing podcasts no you know it's the sponsors they are keeping us alive they are keeping food on the table electricity on it's the only reason why we do this you can have your fucking awards we'll take the sponsor money any day any day you enjoy that that that trophy ain't paying the mortgage i'll just tell you that right now okay you know what it's good why people do listen to this and whether it's two listeners or three or four, whatever the fuck we have. It's to get good content. I think we gave a little bit with InDisc, with the Shoopies, with the ScoopGate. Of course, our wonderful sponsors. But you know damn well why people are listening. Who will Marty save?
    47:28
    No, please. It's back. We're not doing this. I've really enjoyed that break. Bullshit. You probably had a list of people like, hey, can we kill this person, this person, this person? Okay, I'm going to throw a curveball at you. You say that all the time, and sometimes it's actually really easy. Let's find out. Well, it's a curveball in the sense that you probably are in advance guessing who am I going to pick, because I remember when we did Bruce and Ron, you're like, I knew this was going to come. Yeah, at some time. Yeah, I knew. Scott and Josh from Loser Kid, you knew it was going to come. Yeah. We're going outside the pinball world, okay? Okay, okay. Sure, sure. The Super Bowl was this past weekend. I assume the Rams kicked the shit out of the Bengals. Okay, wait a second. First of all, who would want to kick the shit out of the Bengals? They had fantastic songs. Walk Like an Egyptian, one of the best pop tunes ever. Manic Monday, yep. Yep, love it. What was the big ballad they had? Eternal Flame. Come on. And people want to destroy the Bengals? No. My actual serious question is, when you say the Rams, and I think you must have said the Bengals? Are they like the Bengal Tigers or something? Bengal Tigers, yes. Yeah. Who are these teams? You say the Rams. The Rams The Los Angeles Rams Okay Versus the Cincinnati Bengals Okay Those are the teams involved Yep Oh Hazy Shade of Winter Best Bengals song ever That's a cover song I know it is Still their best song That's pretty good It's pretty good You're googling I can tell now No I'm not actually Best thing Susanna Hoffs ever did Was sing in the backup band For Ming T In the Austin Powers movie Austin Powers Yeah I think she was a producer as well Maybe She was married to the director That's how it works. Yes. There you go. I'm trying to get you to kill somebody. Would you fucking stop talking about the Bengals? I'm trying to. Can you see how I'm trying to avoid this?
    49:17
    I'm going to put two members of the Bengals up. If I can think of another one other than Susanna Hoff. No. What we're going to do. The bass player was called Michael something. Michael? They were all females. That was their last name? Correct. Michael Burnham in Star Trek Discovery. Also female. You are stalling. Shut the fuck up and kill somebody already. All right?
    49:36
    Okay. Because I'm going to use the sporting event Okay Yes We're going to throw two of these people in the ring of death The boxing ring They've got to go at each other And the only way this match is over Is when one walks out and one can't walk out Okay You can give boxing, MMA, wrestling Whatever tips you want to one person To help them win Will it be Now retired, considered the greatest of all time Tom Brady. Seven Super Bowls this man won. Or somebody you won't be seeing in your country for three years, Novak Djokovic. Oh, I guess it's Novak. Novak Djokovic, who tried to make it to the Australian Open and went back and forth the courts, not the tennis courts, got the boot. Marty, who are you going to help with your sporting tips to help survive? Who will Marty save? Okay, this is an interesting one, because I have no idea who Tom Brady is. Oh, my God. Seriously? No, I know the name. I know the name, and I know that apparently he's the greatest golfer. Is he? No.
    50:53
    Oh, fuck. Are you serious? Is he basketball? What did you say? Did you say football? Soccer. No, he's a football player, you jackass. He was the quarterback for the New England Patriots for years, then went to Tampa, won a Super Bowl there, just finally retired. He's like 75 years old. He's amazing. Okay, so all I know about this person is, is he considered the GOAT? Is he considered the greatest of all time? No question. All right, okay. I don't understand why he is so good, but good on him for being the best. But I also know that he, is he a bit polarizing as well? Well, if you're a team trying to beat him and he knocks you out of the playoffs every year. By the way, he did lose to the Rams this year, my Rams, whatever, get over it. Okay, cool. So I don't know who he is. So I don't have any emotional connection with him. Let me talk about Novak Djokovic, possibly the most unlikable tennis player that's ever been in existence. He is just... There go our fans from Serbia. Thank you very much. There they go. Yeah, all three of you. So no, I'm just saying factually, he is unlikable. I love tennis and I watch tennis and I used to play tennis for something like 20 years or something. So I like charismatic, interesting tennis players. He is a phenomenal tennis player, but he's just a bit dull.
    52:18
    And I can't remember who it was, but another tennis player said that he is a – off the court, he's not a nice person either. So I don't – look, he's not very likable. So knowing me, who do I want to save? Do I want to save somebody that's very likable, or do I want to save somebody that's not likable? I don't know how many people in Buffalo like Tom Brady. We have a lot of friends in Buffalo, including outside of Buffalo or certainly in that western New York State area. Our friends Bruce and Ron, and they had to watch. I think actually Bruce is a New York Jets fan, and they always got killed by Brady. So Brady's hurt a lot of your friends by his dominance.
    52:57
    So are you thinking about the people you actually know and what these athletes mean to them or your own selfish needs? This is interesting. This is what makes Who Will Marty Save? maybe the greatest competition, even better than Indisc, possibly. Possibly. So I've also got to factor in the whole Novak Djokovic anti-vax sentiment, and I've got to then factor in that I believe somehow Ian is involved in that Because we know Ian. Yeah. By the way, Ian, if you're listening, you're a great guy. We're just making fun of you. I mean, we're not revealing your last name either. It's an ongoing joke. We don't want anyone to think he's a vaxxer or an anti-vaxxer or anything like that. It's just he asked us kindly to stop. Stop ruining the joke, Jeff. I feel bad. I feel bad for the guy because I haven't heard from him since. I know. He is a great guy. He's got a great sense of humor. So, look, I've stalled enough because I don't really care about either of these people. But I am going to save by giving some boxing tips to Tom Brady. He's going to survive. Jovak. Novak. Jovak. Novak. Novak's. Novak's, yeah. He can go. I just don't like him.
    54:19
    So, sorry. No, I... It was weird how that... Do you know the whole thing I didn't like? Is that why should he be above every other person in Australia who had to suffer for 265 days or whatever the hell it was? We just had recent, like this weekend, massive protests again. You know, people like that just incite people. I just don't like it. Whether you're pro or against, anti or for, it doesn't matter. Just follow the law, please. there you go it was quick so fucking political sometimes jeez Jeff stop it our next guest will be a good one Joe Rogan is going to be on the program we're going to have a fucking hell of a time until then my name is Jeff Teolas stop it my name is Martin Robbins thank you everybody for listening we will speak to you again soon
    55:21
    free world Keep on rockin' in the free world